What is Savage LS650 correct oil?

[giro]

Changed the oil in my recently acquired '87 savage LS650 & I obviously have the wrong oil for this bike by the looks, as the clutch slips.
It is MOTO 4HP ECO, Synthetic Fortified, 4T 10W-40, Elf.

Does anybody KNOW what the correct oil to use is??
Thanks - Giro.

[GSF]

From Googling Elf Moto 4HP Eco, I can see that it's a four-stroke bike specific oil that is JASO rated MA, meaning that it's totally suitable for motorbike wet clutches.

To make sure it's the same stuff though, have a look on the bottle you've got and see if you can spot a JASO rating. MA equals all good, MB means not good for oil immersed clutch.

Get the feeling that your clutch slippage may not be oil related though.

[giro]

Thanks for the reply.
Yeah, it says (amongst the French) 'JASO MA2' & it has a picture of a bike on the label which is why I thought it would be a suitable oil.
Clutch never slipped before with the previous oil, which the former owner said was Mobil 1.

[GrayWolf]

Thanks for the reply.
Yeah, it says (amongst the French) 'JASO MA2' & it has a picture of a bike on the label which is why I thought it would be a suitable oil.
Clutch never slipped before with the previous oil, which the former owner said was Mobil 1.

This is an issue/topic that has come up on the MT-01 owners site. They are a high torque output motor and it seems that some synthetic, or synth blend oils produce clutch slip, for no scientific reason. Try a different oil, mineral? and see if it resolves said problem.

Also if clutch is cable operated, try adjusting it to the book, or if an hydraulic operated check the play at the lever and that the plunger inside the master cylinder is releasing fully.... failing that? Did you possibly overfill the oil? AND is the oil you used the correct viscosity? It may be bike oil, but Big singles/twins often use a heavier oil, especially air cooled bikes!!

[giro]

Thanks GrayWolf.
From one grumpy old bugger to another; yes the oil is overfilled, I havent got round to emptying a little.
I do have the clutch adjusted pretty tight. (it operates very soon on release)
The clutch actuating lever doesnt fully return on its own so I fitted a small spring to assist it. Takes up some of the play but wont fully return the lever even after I finger the clutch lever fully out with my finger tips.

Will slacken the clutch off & lower the oil & then get back.

[giro]

Well, I adjusted the clutch & lowered the oil & nothing change after a run.

It only occurs on full throttle & as I rarely use that, its not really going to affect my riding. Guess it is some internal wear. If I'm kind to 'er she may do likewise for me.

I'll try a change to a heavier mineral oil next oil-change as you suggested.
Thanks.

[giro]

4got!! Can you please advise what heavier mineral oil?
Cheers.

[nodrog]

this may help -

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154759-Suzuki-LS650-Boulevard-chrome-pack-rack

[awa355]

Your safest option, I think, would be to change your oil now and not wait untill the k's have clocked up with a slipping clutch. Four litres of oil is a whole lot cheaper than a bucket of clutch components.

[caspernz]

Maybe this is a dumb question...but is the clutch slipping because there's no meat left on the plates?

[GSF]

Maybe this is a dumb question...but is the clutch slipping because there's no meat left on the plates?

Could be this too, the bike is an '87 so it's not exactly a spring chicken, what sort of km's has it got on the clock?

In terms of weight I would expect it to take maybe 15w40 or 20w50.
I have an '81 Yamaha SR500, which is also an air-cooled big single, it takes 20w40 which is not so easy to find these days so I feed it 20w50.

Get yourself an owner's manual, it'll have the manufacturers specified oil weight.

[Motu]

Maybe this is a dumb question...but is the clutch slipping because there's no meat left on the plates?

I doubt it - from what I've read on the internet it's always the oil, never the worn out clutch.

[AllanB]

Mobil 1 is a full synthetic oil so if the [revious owner was using that your oil shoult not offer any signifiant problems.

[Motu]

Mobil 1 is a full synthetic oil

Not anymore, it's now Group III (hydro cracked dyno). That's still a good oil, but not full synthetic, which is Group IV and V....PAO and ester.

[giro]

Maybe this is a dumb question...but is the clutch slipping because there's no meat left on the plates?

Dunno what the plates are like & dont wanna look until I have to!

[giro]

Could be this too, the bike is an '87 so it's not exactly a spring chicken, what sort of km's has it got on the clock?

In terms of weight I would expect it to take maybe 15w40 or 20w50.
I have an '81 Yamaha SR500, which is also an air-cooled big single, it takes 20w40 which is not so easy to find these days so I feed it 20w50.

Get yourself an owner's manual, it'll have the manufacturers specified oil weight.

Yeah its old. Miles are 35 thousand but its too old to go by that now.
The manual says 10W-40 & there are 2 advised substitutes if the first is unavailable. Dont think its the oil anymore but next change Ill go heavier anyway. It may help.

[giro]

May as well end this thread here I guess as I have enough to go on. Thanks for everyone for the tips.

The oil gets dirty really quickly so I'm going to make a toilet roll oil filter & reuse the filthy stuff. Will start a new thread 'refining your own oil' if it does as is is supposed to do; clean the black stuff.
Cheers Giro.

[Flip]

I had a LS ages ago that used to do the same thing.

When I measured the friction plates they were almost new, when I measured the springs they were at the good end of as new and my bike used to run also on imMobile 1 also. The bikesclutch began to slip badly on a trip so to get home I just scored up the pressure plates with some emery from a puncher repair kit. On return being a tight bastard and given that the problem was the high film strength of the oil I was using I simply machined up a set of 1.2mm spacers to go under the springs. Problem fixed.

Oil getting dirty quickly is a good thing, it means it is working. If you micro filter used oil you will clean up the carbon and metal particles, but and its a big ass but, the oils viscosity index gets quickly worn out in motorcycle motors and bike oil thin out espcially when hot, this happens relatively quickly, addittionally, the buffer chemicals used to protect the internals from acidic attack get used up and can't be filtered out.

Foot note, I have worked on marine motors where bypass sub micron filters were used to keep the oil clean only to find out that the acid number of the oil had gone up so far that the internals of the motor was being dissolved and the motors had failed in service. By the time the tug had got the fishing boat back the guy who sold the bypass filters and the promise could not be found.

[Subike]

I had a LS ages ago that used to do the same thing.

When I measured the friction plates they were almost new, when I measured the springs they were at the good end of as new and my bike used to run also on imMobile 1 also. The bikesclutch began to slip badly on a trip so to get home I just scored up the pressure plates with some emery from a puncher repair kit. On return being a tight bastard and given that the problem was the high film strength of the oil I was using I simply machined up a set of 1.2mm spacers to go under the springs. Problem fixed.

.

I had this slippy clutch problem on my XS1100. Flips fix by putting spacers behind the springs is what I did, cured the problem. But I was even more of a tight bugger than him. I used the compression washers off of old spark-plugs. worked a treat. I replaced the clutch pack with a Barett Comp plate and springs a year latter, had no slippage problems over that year running 10w 40 mineral oil in the bike.

[giro]

Oil getting dirty quickly is a good thing, it means it is working. If you micro filter used oil you will clean up the carbon and metal particles, but and its a big ass but, the oils viscosity index gets quickly worn out in motorcycle motors and bike oil thin out espcially when hot, this happens relatively quickly, addittionally, the buffer chemicals used to protect the internals from acidic attack get used up and can't be filtered out.

Foot note, I have worked on marine motors where bypass sub micron filters were used to keep the oil clean only to find out that the acid number of the oil had gone up so far that the internals of the motor was being dissolved and the motors had failed in service. By the time the tug had got the fishing boat back the guy who sold the bypass filters and the promise could not be found.[/QUOTE]

Bugger. Well that's changed my opinion on the loo filter experiment. Guess I'll throw out my fibreglass tube. I'll make use of the roll though. Nice to hear the facts from someone knowledgable. Thanks. And thanks for the washer tip; that's just as important.