How to keep up on a small bike [Archive]

Dragon

6th March 2013, 12:44

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 12:57

My advice.
Ride at a comfortable pace for you, bugger what the group is doing.

Getting involved with the whole "must catch bigger bikes" is fun, but too easy for new riders (even experienced ones) to cock it up by being adrenaline fueled spastics.

True story. I never bother hunting down other riders if it involves me pushing my limits
Maybe I'm just too much of a pussy, but my tyres will last longer (that's a lie, I eat tyres) in theory and I won't lowside under a truck.

george formby

6th March 2013, 13:04

I think the expression "ride at your own pace" sums it up.

Whether a n00b or an experienced rider, playing catch up can lead to all sorts of butt puckering trouble. The biggest issue is spending to much time watching the rider in front & not enough time watching the road.

Good riding buddies will not encourage you to exceed your ability.

Any hoo. Why try to keep up? First to the pie shop has to buy the pies. Scouts honor!

How fast is red line in 5th on your steed?

DrDarkMatter

6th March 2013, 13:04

I am assuming everyone has been through roadsafe and passed the coarse to get their learners, so that's a good start.

I think people also need to know when to ask for help, ego's on a bike will just get you killed and ruin your and your families day.

I think you are right though, some people need more help than others, maybe road safe is not enough for some people, they need something more between the coarse and passing their learners to getting on the road and riding and possibly becoming a statistic.

this is a good thread to start imho.

I wonder if there is something we can do to help, like take people who need extra care to a parking lot and give them the attention the help they need, I dont mean me personally (although I am willing to help in anyway I can, I mean people with much more experience then me)

Riding is largely about confidence, and commonsense. if you don't have the confidence you riding will be shit, and shit will get you hurt or worse.

Confidence can be helped with experience, learning the bike and what you can and cant do and need help on and knowing when to lose the ego and admit you need help and to ask for it.

if I can be of any help I am happy too.

thats my 2 cents

george formby

6th March 2013, 13:09

I concur Drdarkmatter. Combining ongoing training & mentoring with time on the road leads to a happy, safe rider. Your never too old to learn either.:headbang:

Dragon

6th March 2013, 13:11

I think the expression "ride at your own pace" sums it up.
How fast is red line in 5th on your steed?

Now that would be telling lets just say it was over the speedlimit alittle

The main thing im trying to point out is that you should be able to go at a safe pace

Id be happy if everyone could do the speedlimit comfortablly and be able to recognize hazards

Some oh shit handling skills would be nice as well

DrDarkMatter

6th March 2013, 13:19

I think pace and speed is one thing, confidence and being aware of your surroundings and most importantly being able to do all this little things you need to do on a bike simutaniously is something completely different, lets forget about speed and pace fora minute.

lets work on basics,

multitasking: turning, balance,foot position, body positon, headcheck, turn signal (ON and OFF) looking where you want to go, being aware of traffic, being aware of hazards and obstacles all these things take attention and its takes time to master, we as more experienced riders take it for granted, we do it automatically.

this is not the case some some people I fear, and as we all know people learn and take things in at different levels and speed.

one person might take a week to get used to something new and make it a habit, another person might take a month.

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 13:24

Now that would be telling lets just say it was over the speedlimit alittle

Indicated 150 if memory serves correctly ;)

DrDarkMatter

6th March 2013, 13:28

Ok screw it..............

we are all dancing around it,

I will say it.........

I think that GDOBSSOR needs help before she gets hurt, fuck it, there I said it.

so lets help her, lets move on to suggestions for her and get her the help she needs.

Dragon

6th March 2013, 13:28

I was passing at the time :p

Anyway back on topic haha

You can't be in LALA land if you want to be a good safe rider/driver

DrDarkMatter

6th March 2013, 13:49

where is a good safe parking or open paved area we can use?

Maha

6th March 2013, 13:52

where is a good safe parking or open paved area we can use?

Waitarere beach at low tide?

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 14:07

Waitarere beach at low tide?

It's even legal to drive/ride down there :D

Maha

6th March 2013, 14:26

It's even legal to drive/ride down there :D

Thought it always was?...I remember as a kid, all the vehicles parked up along the beach at low tide at Foxton/Himatangi etc...this was the late 60's early 70's though...:(
Ninty mile beach is the same, hard packed sand, personally, I would take a road bike on the sand but thats just me.

MSTRS

6th March 2013, 14:52

I think pace and speed is one thing...

Nup. Two different things.
And before you can go fast, you must first go slow. Learn pace riding (set a reasonable speed and try to maintain it), be smooth with accelerating and gear changing, read the road conditions as far ahead as is practical/possible and adjust speed through throttle control and road position to setup corner lines. Brakes are for stopping/emergencies.
Get the above right and then you are in a better position to up the pace a little. A little. Do not try to keep up with better riders. Perhaps ask them to keep you in their mirror/s so they keep to your speed.

FJRider

6th March 2013, 15:28

Id be happy if everyone could do the speedlimit comfortablly and be able to recognize hazards

Some oh shit handling skills would be nice as well

If you continue at (and above) the speed limit ... you will develop some "Oh Shit Handling skills" ... and not everybody is capable (or safe) to do the speed limit "comfortably". It's not always wise to be on some roads AT the speed limit ... even if your bike is "capable". A few would have made allowances for you when you had the L plate ... and no doubt a few more experienced riders will still be making allowances for you. One of the hazards THEY see ... will be you.
Your suggestion/expectation that everybody should be able to "do the speed limit" ... on the rides you participate in ... is a little selfish don't you think ... ??? Or don't you want those dam learners ruining your ride .. ???

I don't know what the "find out what each brake will do" is about ... ??? They BOTH stop you. 70% + of your efficient braking is with the front wheel alone. As soon as you touch the brake (front or back) the bike weight (including the riders) is transferred forward ... to the front wheel. So if you only use the back brake ... it wont stop you in time ... at some stage (very) soon.

Dragon

6th March 2013, 15:50

If you continue at (and above) the speed limit ... you will develop some "Oh Shit Handling skills" ... and not everybody is capable (or safe) to do the speed limit "comfortably". It's not always wise to be on some roads AT the speed limit ... even if your bike is "capable". A few would have made allowances for you when you had the L plate ... and no doubt a few more experienced riders will still be making allowances for you. One of the hazards THEY see ... will be you.
Your suggestion/expectation that everybody should be able to "do the speed limit" ... on the rides you participate in ... is a little selfish don't you think ... ??? Or don't you want those dam learners ruining your ride .. ???

I don't know what the "find out what each brake will do" is about ... ??? They BOTH stop you. 70% + of your efficient braking is with the front wheel alone. As soon as you touch the brake (front or back) the bike weight (including the riders) is transferred forward ... to the front wheel. So if you only use the back brake ... it wont stop you in time ... at some stage (very) soon.

Im not being selfish and I dont think ive ever held anybody up that much tbh

I have no problem with people riding to the conditions all Im trying to point out is that if you cant be comfortable doing the speed limit then you need to work out why

I only touch the brakes when im about to stop or im going fast (and the gears wont slow me into a corner)

I like to know if the rear brake will slide the back or and how much force the front needs to start make you go flying

I dont only use the rear brake

Clearly you didnt get what I was trying to say

FJRider

6th March 2013, 16:16

Im not being selfish and I dont think ive ever held anybody up that much tbh

I have no problem with people riding to the conditions all Im trying to point out is that if you cant be comfortable doing the speed limit then you need to work out why

I only touch the brakes when im about to stop or im going fast (and the gears wont slow me into a corner)

I like to know if the rear brake will slide the back or and how much force the front needs to start make you go flying

I dont only use the rear brake

Clearly you didnt get what I was trying to say

Making allowances for people .. is not saying those people are holding anybody up .... Just the allowances are ... that they are just given more room (front and back) ... pick-up rates are a little slower ... and those other riders don't have a high expectation of their abilities. Their own safety depends on it. You may well feel then ... YOU are "keeping up" ...

Those that can't (or wont) travel at the speed limit already KNOW why. They either don't have a bike capable of doing it safely, or they themselves have not the ability or confidence to travel at that speed. (it doesn't stop a few idiots trying though) Both of those can be gained eventually ... through experience on the road. I hope YOU make allowances for them too ...

The reaction of the bike back end will vary at different speeds, different road surfaces (not all sealed roads are equal) different angles the bike is on ... and those white lines/oil/loose gravel patches ... all make it a lottery how YOUR back end will react to the conditions at that time.

You said nothing in your post an L plater with no experience would get any help from. Plenty of what you said ... you don't seem to understand why it is.

TheTengTheory

6th March 2013, 16:25

Im not being selfish and I dont think ive ever held anybody up that much tbh

I have no problem with people riding to the conditions all Im trying to point out is that if you cant be comfortable doing the speed limit then you need to work out why

I only touch the brakes when im about to stop or im going fast (and the gears wont slow me into a corner)

I like to know if the rear brake will slide the back or and how much force the front needs to start make you go flying

I dont only use the rear brake

Clearly you didnt get what I was trying to say

You should learn to write in paragraphs not one liners....I basically skipped most of what you wrote and the only thing I got from that, is you whinging about people not learning as fast as you.

I completely agree with the ride at your own pace. While I have had the occasional urge to play keep up with the big bikes...I also realise the limitations of a 250 in doing that as well as my riding skills. I don't know why people like to go fast and keep up with the faster riders...Whats the point riding in ass puckering fear around every corner. Not very fun in my opinion as well as monumentally silly.

BTW the brake distribution IS covered in the road code. If you wanna find out how much it takes to go flying...go to a carpark and squeeze em good. That'll teach you real fast without killing anyone. I find slow speed riding to be challenging as hell....open road is dare I say it...easy. .....technically past a certain speed (around 20-30kph) it becomes physically impossible for the bike to fall over by itself due to rotational inertia.

Slow speed...thats where the money's at....I'm dreaming of the day I can do a full lock turn without dabbing my foot or dropping my steed.

If I've raised a different topic than whoops. :lol: sue me.

Maha

6th March 2013, 16:30

Nup. Two different things.
And before you can go fast, you must first go slow. Learn pace riding (set a reasonable speed and try to maintain it), be smooth with accelerating and gear changing, read the road conditions as far ahead as is practical/possible and adjust speed through throttle control and road position to setup corner lines. Brakes are for stopping/emergencies.
Get the above right and then you are in a better position to up the pace a little. A little. Do not try to keep up with better riders. Perhaps ask them to keep you in their mirror/s so they keep to your speed.

Every new/learner rider should read and take this in, and do it every time they take to the road, until it becomes second nature.
The enjoyment gained by reading these few words and putting them into a practical situation, would be rewarding enough to any learner.

Well said John.

FJRider

6th March 2013, 16:41

... open road is dare I say it...easy. .....technically past a certain speed (around 20-30kph) it becomes physically impossible for the bike to fall over by itself due to rotational inertia.

So ... you're saying bikes don't ... can't ... crash under braking ... ??? :killingme

DrDarkMatter

6th March 2013, 16:46

Waitarere beach at low tide?

I didnt think of that, needs to be hard packed tho

FJRider

6th March 2013, 16:54

I didnt think of that, needs to be hard packed tho

Do laps of the local supermarket car park ... at busy times. Get that well practiced and the open road will be a breeze.

Go back when the supermarket is closed for the faster practice stops. (Don't forget the clutch)

Subike

6th March 2013, 17:01

Slow down, ride with in the ability of the bike or die.......those are your choices.
A 250 will barley keep up for very long, and to do so you put yourself into that OH FUCK zone.
Ride to your ability and the bikes ability, not the groups.
I now ride a 250, I dont try to keep up on the open road with bigger bikes.....thats stupidity.
If I wanted to do that I would have taken my 1100 on that ride.
250's are a heap of fun to ride, but they can also get you into the shit when extending their limits very very fast.
Your a learner, ride like your learning, slow......the end.

Motu

6th March 2013, 17:48

Not learner stuff, but we all have to learn sometime. Love riding gutless bikes - it's all about momentum. Don't lose speed - that means never backing off, brakes for last minute or emergencies, looking well ahead and reading the road, using downhills for advantage. I learnt this stuff on a 13hp 500cc engine in a bike that weighed 425lbs. Dangerous sure - but danger is fun. What sort of wimp always plays it safe?

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 17:50

So ... you're saying bikes don't ... can't ... crash under braking ... ??? :killingme

He said "by itself", no rider input.

YOu're more than welcome to borrow my spectacles.

EJK

6th March 2013, 17:50

Just curious, why do you have to "Keep Up"?

FJRider

6th March 2013, 18:15

He said "by itself", no rider input.

YOu're more than welcome to borrow my spectacles.

Lock the front (or back wheel up) ... and half the "Rotational inertia" disappears ... and push then ... comes to shove. (you guess which direction ... by my guess is down)

All that (everytime) ... on flat/dry roads, with new/good tyres .... with no loose surface .... and always on a straight road. In perfect weather conditions. (with no other traffic involved)

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 18:20

Lock the front (or back wheel up) ... and half the "Rotational inertia" disappears ... and push then ... comes to shove. (you guess which direction ... by my guess is down)

All that (everytime) ... on flat/dry roads, with new/good tyres .... with no loose surface .... and always on a straight road. In perfect weather conditions. (with no other traffic involved)

He said the bike doesn't fall over by itself.
We know full well that it can fall over when the rider cocks up

Katman

6th March 2013, 18:21

Thoughts comments?

You should get some experience behind you before you start thinking your thoughts count for shit.

bosslady

6th March 2013, 19:38

Haven't read anything apart from the OP but fucked if anyone thinks I'm gonna go so sideways my pegs hit the ground. That's not ok by me and I wouldn't advocate it. Also I'm on a Ginny and I have no problem keeping up. Sure, depending on the hill I may go only 85-90 up it rather than 100 but in most other instances I'm all G. Personally I tire of people making excuses for why they can't keep up or do much on bikes with little power such as mine. Excuses, Excuses. I travel on the open road, I don't commute much on my bike. I've been to NP, Taupo, Hastings, heaps of places. I may not get there as quick as faster bikes that can speed esp on the straights but I damn well get there. Why? Cause I'm stubborn as fuck. Also, I'm too poor to get another bike hahaha :lol:

Mind over matter.

Mom

6th March 2013, 19:48

Hey all... Thoughts comments?

Your thread title worries me. A Lot!

How to keep up on a small bike

First thing - DONT TRY!

FFS! If you are riding in situations where you feel you HAVE to keep up, find new riding buddies. I dont care if them buddies exclude your Dad either!

I hear TC! TC! in my head from reading your post.

TC=Temporary Citizen.

Mom

6th March 2013, 19:50

Haven't read anything apart from the OP but fucked if anyone thinks I'm gonna go so sideways my pegs hit the ground. That's not ok by me and I wouldn't advocate it. Mind over matter.

Bear in mind though, your wonderfull ginny, is only all powerful in a group that allows you to fly!!!!!!!!!!!

What is being talked about here is something way different.

bosslady

6th March 2013, 19:52

I'd also like to add that I went on a trip with another L plater the weekend just been. She doesn't go as fast as me esp through corners and on straights too for reasons such as she's still learning (such as I) and/or wants to obey the law, and so what. Just because I take corners and straights faster than her doesn't make me better. It's actually quite the opposite and I think she has more patience and technical ability than me and if anyone's going to get hurt for being an impatient dick, it's me. Yup I go faster but I think she's probably a better rider because she has the patience which I lack. JM2CW

bosslady

6th March 2013, 19:54

Bear in mind though, your wonderfull ginny, is only all powerful in a group that allows you to fly!!!!!!!!!!!

What is being talked about here is something way different.

I'm confuzzled but I'll take your lacy undies for it. I mean your word for it...

Mom

6th March 2013, 20:05

I'm confuzzled but I'll take your lacy undies for it. I mean your word for it...

:gob: did you see my undies? Actually, aparently they were polka dot. Ask Buliemia :love:

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 20:29

bosslady

6th March 2013, 20:44

:gob: did you see my undies? Actually, aparently they were polka dot. Ask Buliemia :love:
I've seen at least two different pairs within a 24 hour periods. Personally, I think I've met a life's worth quota already...

I find you to be quite cool. Please don't leave KB. Or go splat. Or something.
I make no promises. If you find a cup of patience though, please let me know, cause I need more than a few of these ;)

ducatilover

6th March 2013, 20:56

I make no promises. If you find a cup of patience though, please let me know, cause I need more than a few of these ;)

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/roofies-93991.jpg?1190758913 This is the closest I have to patience pills. Dunno if you're allowed any, you haven't taken me for dinner yet

Berries

6th March 2013, 21:35

Also I'm on a Ginny and I have no problem keeping up.

I may not get there as quick as faster bikes that can speed esp on the straights but I damn well get there.
I am not completely sure, but I think if you Google 'keeping up' it refers to keeping up, not getting there half an hour later.

sugilite

6th March 2013, 21:59

I don't feel the "keeping up" mindset belongs in the considerations of noobs, as it means they are definitely missing out considerations important to self preservation.

Dragon

7th March 2013, 07:25

All I am trying to point out is its the rider not the bike

I ride my 250 pretty hard but my comfort zone and skill level isnt that of someone wet behind the ears

And I know im at the point atm where im riding the bike alittle to hard and if I fuck up it could go bad I am aware of that

Clearly I just opened a new can of worms

IF I dont want to go faster then what im going I won't and when im riding with someone else I let them know that if im not ok ill back off

Also checked with other people if my pace is to slow/fast for them

Monkfish

7th March 2013, 08:07

All I am trying to point out is its the rider not the bike

Yes I believe you sir, but unfortunately, your OP was a little misleading in the reading. It almost seemed that you wanted all noobs to harden the fuck up and just ride flatout.. which I cannot condone.:oi-grr:
But as usual I think KB has overcompensated in getting the point accross. (I hope I have it right), but I think we all agree that, noobs should just do their noob thing, that is untill they are comfortable and have the right mindset to effectivley "keep up". ;)

Dragon

7th March 2013, 08:21

Yes I believe you sir, but unfortunately, your OP was a little misleading in the reading. It almost seemed that you wanted all noobs to harden the fuck up and just ride flatout.. which I cannot condone.:oi-grr:
But as usual I think KB has overcompensated in getting the point accross. (I hope I have it right), but I think we all agree that, noobs should just do their noob thing, that is untill they are comfortable and have the right mindset to effectivley "keep up". ;)

Yeah seems to come off wrong I dont expect people to ride flat out but at least ride correctly clearly I didnt put things across correctly.

GTRMAN

7th March 2013, 08:32

Let's put this in context.

This posting this due to frustration over the pace of a NEW LEARNER rider on an advertised SLOW PACED RIDE in near enough to peak hour traffic. If the OP is frustrated with the pace of the ride, which by necessity needs to be dictated by the slowest rider in the group, then I humbly suggest that maybe that group ride is not what they are looking for.

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 08:33

Have you read the twist of the wrist books?
Anyone who wants to go fast can benefit from these.

Going fast is sinful and nobody on KB does it, except Drew because he's a riding god, nor did we ever ride fast as learners. We're all perfect here, but there is some handy advice

Katman

7th March 2013, 08:37

I ride my 250 pretty hard but my comfort zone and skill level isnt that of someone wet behind the ears

And I know im at the point atm where im riding the bike alittle to hard and if I fuck up it could go bad I am aware of that

Let's hope those words don't come back to haunt you.

george formby

7th March 2013, 08:38

Yeah seems to come off wrong I dont expect people to ride flat out but at least ride correctly clearly I didnt put things across correctly.

Heh. t'was either a troll or just ambiguous.

+1 on practicing wit the brakes. So rarely used in anger but so vital.

As somebody pointed out maintaining a good average pace smoothly & safely, minimal brakes & throttle use, will teach you more than riding hard on the gas or brakes. Thrashing it just wears stuff out & stretches your power band to far.

I guess you have point if a new rider is struggling to keep up with the flow of traffic when the bike is capable of doing so. Training & practice to identify issues, learn the correct techniques, learn the bikes ability, get a bit of confidence.. start enjoying the pleasure of a bike.
Re practice. What works at 20kmh also works at 120kmh. So start at the slow end.

Dragon

7th March 2013, 08:47

wysper

7th March 2013, 08:55

Nup. Two different things.
And before you can go fast, you must first go slow. Learn pace riding (set a reasonable speed and try to maintain it), be smooth with accelerating and gear changing, read the road conditions as far ahead as is practical/possible and adjust speed through throttle control and road position to setup corner lines. Brakes are for stopping/emergencies.
Get the above right and then you are in a better position to up the pace a little. A little. Do not try to keep up with better riders. Perhaps ask them to keep you in their mirror/s so they keep to your speed.

Best post so far to my mind.

The little snippet - And before you can go fast, you must first go slow. - is gold. Also true for pretty much learning ANYTHING.

Monkfish

7th March 2013, 09:05

Best post so far to my mind.

The little snippet - And before you can go fast, you must first go slow. - is gold. Also true for pretty much learning ANYTHING.

Ah ha, I aggree, but it is not a rule set in stone. I put this to you.
When I was a toddler I never crawled, I used to slide around on my Arse all the time, and then one day (the mother tells me) I simply got up and walked. to follow dad down the hall.
what say you to that? It seems you can skip steps in the learning process and not always adhere to the normal learning curve.
I believe in sensible learning but sometimes a baptisim of fire can also do wonders,. as long as one is not pushing themselves beyond their means, that is.

Let people do their own thing. and Noob riders should never feel pressured into "Keeping up" or riding beyond their skill base.

Mom

7th March 2013, 09:36

Yes I have come off before both from my own stupidity and from other peoples

Yes I have had oh shit moments since I got back into riding but because I have been asking questions and working out what to do if something happens I have been ok (touch wood)

Lean into corners take correct lines and untill you hit your pegs (or the ground) you can go further (this has saved me before)

Don't hesitate if you decide to do something do it, if you hesitate and then go your probably going to get taken out

If you get scared don't lock the brakes

DON"T PANIC

umm will think of more latter

Thoughts comments?

These little snippets in your first post, genuinely have me scratching my head.

You are saying when on a small bike you should "Lean into corners take correct lines and untill you hit your pegs (or the ground) you can go further (this has saved me before)"?

You are a moron, if you think that is how you should be riding and certainly a double moron if you ride like that on learner rides. I would not ride with you ever, just on the strength of this post.

bosslady

7th March 2013, 09:36

I am not completely sure, but I think if you Google 'keeping up' it refers to keeping up, not getting there half an hour later.

I'm talking about keeping up with what's legal, unless someone is going crazy illegal speeds all the time then yea, I would be half an hour behind. But in saying that, I don't ride with those kind of people. -Not- keeping up, for example, is taking 85kmh sign posted corners at 60kmh, for example. Or doing 90kmh on straights rather than 100kmh.

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 09:44

You are saying when on a small bike you should "Lean into corners take correct lines and untill you hit your pegs (or the ground) you can go further (this has saved me before)"?

I'm not sure here, but perhaps he means, until your pegs hit the ground, you can go further and there's some in reserve?
I'm not sure on that one though.
And it's not always true.

speeding_ant

7th March 2013, 11:21

I'm not sure here, but perhaps he means, until your pegs hit the ground, you can go further and there's some in reserve?
I'm not sure on that one though.
And it's not always true.

+1. Suspension on 250's are mostly shit.

I can lean my bike over until I'm 5mm away from the edge of the tyre, and my pegs still don't scrape. If I go any further on a public road I start getting a wiggle on, and the suspension can't keep up. At that point you don't have control of the bike if something goes wrong. You only ride like this when you can see the exit of a corner, and the smooth asphalt is hot, and your tyres are in good nick, and you know what your bike can do.... and so on... So it's not all about the pegs, it's about how capable you and your bike is. If the situation is not ideal (and most New Zealand roads aren't ideal), back it off so you're in control if something happens. On a 250 you seldom have to worry about the speed limit, they're not THAT fast.

If you want to ride faster and lean harder, leave it for the track. Or until you get a more capable bike that is safer in those situations. Trying to keep up with someone on a more capable bike is just asking for trouble in my opinion. Ride your own ride :)

I should add that I'm not an amazing rider - anything you read or see written here should taken with a grain of salt. Go see someone like Andrew Templeton if you want an experts opinion on how to ride without binning it.

Dragon

7th March 2013, 11:45

I'm not sure here, but perhaps he means, until your pegs hit the ground, you can go further and there's some in reserve?
I'm not sure on that one though.
And it's not always true.

I wasnt meaning you should go out trying to hit your pegs I was meaning until you hit them you can keep going so if you hit the corner to hot you can keep pushing it to get around

Katman

7th March 2013, 11:49

I wasnt meaning you should go out trying to hit your pegs I was meaning until you hit them you can keep going so if you hit the corner to hot you can keep pushing it to get around

A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

speeding_ant

7th March 2013, 11:54

I wasnt meaning you should go out trying to hit your pegs I was meaning until you hit them you can keep going so if you hit the corner to hot you can keep pushing it to get around

That's really the only option, but at that point you need to re-evaluate how you got into that situation in the first place. Looking into the corner, assessing your line, assessing your speed and the condition of the road all come into play here.

If you're scraping the pegs on a 250, and you need to corner harder to stop yourself from going through a fence then that's a bad day. Most 'sport' 250s were designed to let you know you're reaching the limits via peg scrape - AT FACTORY. Put worn tires, suspension and a learner rider in the mix and the outcome might be less than satisfactory.

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 12:23

Put worn tires, suspension and a learner rider in the mix and the outcome might be less than satisfactory.

I've always said the biggest handling problem a bike has is the nut on top

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 12:27

I wasnt meaning you should go out trying to hit your pegs I was meaning until you hit them you can keep going so if you hit the corner to hot you can keep pushing it to get around

You have a LOT to learn. Hopefully it won't be too painful a process.

Dragon

7th March 2013, 12:42

You have a LOT to learn. Hopefully it won't be too painful a process.

I am always learning don't think I'll ever stop learning even when I'm 80 Im sure Ill still not know something

And I am always happy to talk and expirence different ways of doing something

I want to build my knowledge and became a better/safer rider at the end of the day thats the whole point of the thread

Flaming me is not constructive if you want to have a go at me send me a pm and we can go from there

If you disagree with something you can point it out rather then making it a personal thing

What i wanted to get out there was some feedback from a range of sources and how you can use a small bike effectively while staying in your comfort zone

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 12:48

speeding_ant

7th March 2013, 12:54

I've always said the biggest handling problem a bike has is the nut on top

I'd agree with that too. The nut on top knows how far to push :)

Dragon

7th March 2013, 13:05

You've been getting some excellent advice here, including my earlier post about pace vs speed, but you don't appear to be 'getting it' ...
People who ask for help by telling the more experienced how it is, aren't gunna get a whole lot of respect.

BTW. The :ME means something...

I am trying to get it I have read it and am trying to see it from the otherside, and tbh I go at my own pace or sometimes slower then my normal pace and yes it is farking hard to go slow sometimes ie first gear in traffic doing 5km but I got my skills up doing that before I even started to think about splitting

Maybe Im wrong for thinking that people shouldnt even consider the motorway or 80-100km roads until they have gotten back roads and 50km riding sorted espically if they wont pull over out of fear they cant get back into traffic

In my mind having people stuck behind get fustrated and try to push past is not safe

I wasn't trying to tell people how it is I was trying to put out some things from my expirence and if someone has something to add thats fine

Yes I had clicked to that already guessing your a mentor?

But you know maybe I just shouldn't do or say anything, and Ill stop waving at other bikes and stop caring if someone else comes off etc I just go into my own bubble and not give a shit like most car drivers (not all of them)

Then all I have to care about is if the LALA drivers are going to hit me

Maha

7th March 2013, 13:07

BTW. The :ME means something...

Mr Easy? :lol:

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 13:18

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 13:21

Mr Easy? :lol:

How well you know me. And not in the biblical sense...

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 13:25

But you know maybe I just shouldn't do or say anything, ...

No need to toss your toys, mate. If you aren't sure of something, ask. But please - don't attempt to instruct others until you've had a LOT of riding yourself. And not just on a little 250 twin.

oneofsix

7th March 2013, 13:39

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 13:49

Katman

7th March 2013, 13:50

I wasn't trying to tell people how it is I was trying to put out some things from my expirence

Seriously man, how old are you and how long have you been riding?

Katman

7th March 2013, 13:54

and would also have the literary skills to get the point/s across,

Fuckin' A.

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 13:55

Fuckin' A.

Its da shizzle with the frizzle. Or is it nizzle? I cant neba amember. Besides, ya have to know how to tootle melodiously. Ay?!

oneofsix

7th March 2013, 14:02

A long time ago, the members were asked to nominate those they believed would have sensible advice for anyone who wanted it, and would also have the literary skills to get the point/s across, as well as provide one on one meatspace assistance. The 'chosen ones' were then asked if they wanted to do it and, if so, had to have been riding for not less than 10 years. Eventually, we ended up with 2/3 suitable people in each general region of the country.
Many highly qualified riders turned down the offer, because they didn't want the hassle of taking the time to give advice which was then ignored. I know some felt they would be a target for any and all with an axe to grind.

Thanks. Even if I came close to the riding skills I would fail the lit.... hold on copy paste ... literary skills. :eek5:

Say anything on KB and you got to be able to take the shit but to try and give good advice .... :crazy:

Still, open discussion aids understanding or so I think I heard someone once say.

bosslady

7th March 2013, 14:15

There are motorways in Smellington? :lol:

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 14:16

Still, open discussion aids understanding or so I think I heard someone once say.

Failing that, a bullet works really well, so I've heard.

sugilite

7th March 2013, 14:23

Yeah, us :Me types know we are shite, I mean know our, na forget it :crazy:

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 14:44

There are motorways in Smellington? :lol:

Nah, they pretend there are.
Eketahuna on the other hand, thriving metropolis.

Maha

7th March 2013, 14:53

The very question of ''how to keep up'' was asked by a youngster on a group ride years ago, the response was quick and brutal..''dude! don't even try''.

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 14:56

The very question of ''how to keep up'' was asked by a youngster on a group ride years ago, the response was quick and brutal..''dude! don't even try''.

Yeah, that really hurt my feelings. I've been in therapy all that time since, trying to come to terms with others' belief in my inability...

Maha

7th March 2013, 15:09

Yeah, that really hurt my feelings. I've been in therapy all that time since, trying to come to terms with others' belief in my inability...

Sorry about the brutality, it had to be done...
Seriously though, I have said time and time again, there is no better rider (in my opinion) to ride behind than you....I have only been in that position only once and that was enough for me to confidently speak of that time over and over.
Your lines and smoothness/pace is outstanding...or was it J's arse? :lol:

MSTRS

7th March 2013, 15:21

Sorry about the brutality...of...J's arse? :lol:

Yeah.:wacko:

bosslady

7th March 2013, 15:46

This is the closest I have to patience pills. Dunno if you're allowed any, you haven't taken me for dinner yet

Umm..... I'm not sure we're on the same page here...

I don't pay for dinner :lol:

FJRider

7th March 2013, 15:49

Umm..... I'm not sure we're on the same page here...

I don't pay for dinner :lol:

That's good to know ... the next time I'm in Auckland and needing dinner ... I'll go where YOU go. Where was that again .. ??? :innocent:

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 16:05

Umm..... I'm not sure we're on the same page here...

I don't pay for dinner :lol:

I thought I was special

Speshul?

sugilite

7th March 2013, 17:38

Sorry about the brutality, it had to be done...
Seriously though, I have said time and time again, there is no better rider (in my opinion) to ride behind than you (MSTRS)....I have only been in that position only once and that was enough for me to confidently speak of that time over and over.
Your lines and smoothness/pace is outstanding...or was it J's arse? :lol:

Yep, thats where it is at me thinks, being smooooth. The thing I'm working on at the moment is slowing my hands down, I know that may sound odd, but there you go. Not that I focus upon speed on the road, but a quote from Freddie Spencer recently caught my eye, "slow hands = fast laps". So I had a good think about it, and have been working on it ever since, so far it's working out pretty good.

Mom

7th March 2013, 17:57

sugilite

7th March 2013, 18:18

And isn't that the key? Always learning. Always trying to improve the craft. All without placing others at risk from your fool hardy actions, and inappropriate advice.

Tis why I love motorcycling so much, the learning never stops. I'd probably have given it away if I ever felt I'd stopped learning. Every single ride I do, I try new stuff out. I've been really selfish on my latest bike and have not gone on any group rides in the 18 months I've had it, I've just been so focused on learning new stuff for me. I'm starting to want to get into a few group rides now though, maybe the weekend after I mentor a ZX10R rider at Taupo track days 15/16th of March. :yes:

FJRider

7th March 2013, 18:51

I've been really selfish on my latest bike and have not gone on any group rides in the 18 months I've had it.

Considering the number of people that buy a new bike ... and then take it out on the first group ride to show (it) off ...

Then bin it on said first group ride.

I think it fair and reasonable to be selfish ... ;)

sugilite

7th March 2013, 19:19

Considering the number of people that buy a new bike ... and then take it out on the first group ride to show (it) off ...

Then bin it on said first group ride.

I think it fair and reasonable to be selfish ... ;)

Hehehe, my quote says "my latest bike" which happens to be (yet another) 1989 ZXR 750 lol
But I do acknowledge your point! Every bike is different and it pays to get to know it 1st before going on a group ride and showing it off, in many bits! ;)

FJRider

7th March 2013, 19:32

Hehehe, my quote says "my latest bike" which happens to be (yet another) 1989 ZXR 750 lol
But I do acknowledge your point! Every bike is different and it pays to get to know it 1st before going on a group ride and showing it off, in many bits! ;)

I know of one very skilled rider (ZZR1100 skilled) that took his daughters GN250 on a group ride. (complete with L plate) ... and another GN L plater followed his every move. Well tried to. He binned it on about halfway into the ride. The bikes were identical ... the only difference was the riders abilities.

Mom

7th March 2013, 19:38

Hehehe, my quote says "my latest bike" which happens to be (yet another) 1989 ZXR 750 lol
But I do acknowledge your point! Every bike is different and it pays to get to know it 1st before going on a group ride and showing it off, in many bits! ;)

I suppose we have all been guilty of making poor choices when riding our new pride and joy! I will never forget about highsiding off my Blue Bitch (formerly The Blue Lovely) because I was enjoying her speedy capabilities. I was drunk on the YAY! factor and forgot I should consider the age/suspension/handling of said BB, before committing to a right hander far too far too fast :pinch: I thank experience and fast reactions for saving my skin that day, I could vision myself flying over the bars. Newbie mistake. I felt a dick and really learned a big lesson.

sugilite

7th March 2013, 19:39

Hahaha, I remember my one and only ride on a Ginney, I approached a decent corner and thought "I'll just lean it ov.., oh, it's scrapping the foot peg!" :lol:

sugilite

7th March 2013, 19:43

Newbie mistake. I felt a dick and really learned a big lesson.
Yeah, and I reckon right there is a really good trait as a rider, to be one's harshest critic. I've done similar and given myself a fair old rark up, an important part of learning me thinks.

FJRider

7th March 2013, 19:54

I suppose we have all been guilty of making poor choices when riding our new pride and joy! I will never forget about highsiding off my Blue Bitch (formerly The Blue Lovely) because I was enjoying her speedy capabilities. I was drunk on the YAY! factor and forgot I should consider the age/suspension/handling of said BB, before committing to a right hander far too far too fast :pinch: I thank experience and fast reactions for saving my skin that day, I could vision myself flying over the bars. Newbie mistake. I felt a dick and really learned a big lesson.

In most such cases ... it is the mark of experience that makes the finger of blame point inwards.

bosslady

7th March 2013, 20:09

That's good to know ... the next time I'm in Auckland and needing dinner ... I'll go where YOU go. Where was that again .. ??? :innocent:
oh for you trev I'd make an exception!

I thought I was special

Speshul?
Yea speshul. Special is different. You is speshul ;)

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 20:23

I've been really selfish on my latest bike and have not gone on any group rides in the 18 months I've had it,
Some jealous knob like me might steal it if you go on a group ride :lol:

Yea speshul. Special is different. You is speshul ;)
Windows taste nice

sugilite

7th March 2013, 20:25

Some jealous knob like me might steal it if you go on a group ride :lol:

Not if you see how the warehouse spray paint is holding up on the tank, the rest looking ok still though :lol:

FJRider

7th March 2013, 20:27

oh for you trev I'd make an exception!

Thank you ... I'm often told I'm the exception ... :banana:

bosslady

7th March 2013, 20:30

Some jealous knob like me might steal it if you go on a group ride :lol:

Windows taste nice

I've also been told roundup tastes nice.Be a dear and test that theory for me? :lol:

ducatilover

7th March 2013, 20:36

Not if you see how the warehouse spray paint is holding up on the tank, the rest looking ok still though :lol:
I'll look at it from a distance? Love them early ZXR750. I like to pretend I have one...

I've also been told roundup tastes nice.Be a dear and test that theory for me? :lol:
:hug: tastes green!

Thank you ... I'm often told I'm the exception ... :banana:
Mate, you really are an exception :bleh:

MSTRS

8th March 2013, 06:04

Yep, thats where it is at me thinks, being smooooth. The thing I'm working on at the moment is slowing my hands down, I know that may sound odd, but there you go. Not that I focus upon speed on the road, but a quote from Freddie Spencer recently caught my eye, "slow hands = fast laps". So I had a good think about it, and have been working on it ever since, so far it's working out pretty good.

And isn't that the key? Always learning. Always trying to improve the craft. All without placing others at risk from your fool hardy actions, and inappropriate advice.

These two know what they are talking about. It is NOT about being fast. Or keeping up with others. It is about being the best YOU can by continually thinking about what you are doing on a motorcycle and practicing skills old and new.
Keep doing this and one day you will think 'OMG - I'm at the front and they are all trying to keep up with me!'
And then, you'll think 'Fuck! These idiots are going to kill themselves. I'd better give them some benefit of my experience/s.'
Which is about where we came in, eh Suggy?

Ratti

8th March 2013, 13:53

To back up GTRMAN, this thread came about because 2 Lplaters who have been riding on the BRONZ Tuesday Slowpaced rides, feel they have superior skills to another Lplater who has also been riding with us.

I have yet to witness these superior skills, ( work committments and a broken Henry ) and am relying on the phone calls and messages from senior riders on the rides. L-platers thinking they know how to ride better than someone else is not an uncommon occurance, and them thinking they should really be sharing their 'skill' is, sadly, also something I have had to deal with every year for the 4 years Ive been co-ordinating the ride.

Word to riders....if you're on an Lplate, put your ego in your pocket, shut up and listen to the senior riders, ask questions if you don't understand,apply what you have been told. Do LOTS of professionally run training and several thousand klicks on the road, come back in a few years/decades as a senior rider and share what you know at that point.

One or two people getting dangerously close to being on the receiving end of a Rattslap ( metaphorical not literal )

Subike

8th March 2013, 15:35

These two know what they are talking about. It is NOT about being fast. Or keeping up with others. It is about being the best YOU can by continually thinking about what you are doing on a motorcycle and practicing skills old and new.
Keep doing this and one day you will think 'OMG - I'm at the front and they are all trying to keep up with me!'
And then, you'll think 'Fuck! These idiots are going to kill themselves. I'd better give them some benefit of my experience/s.'
Which is about where we came in, eh Suggy?

Had to smile at this post, it is so right. It has taken me 12 months and 17000k to finally find the limit of my 250's lean angle.
The pegs do scrape before the tires reach the limit. That was a butt clenching moment I dont want to repeat again soon, but I know now how far I can go if the need ever came. But thats 17000k of combined open road, hill work, touring, winter riding, snow, ice..and I still find each day something else the little bike can do that I never knew it could. Something I can do on a dry day, I cannot do on a wet day, or in fog, its different than on a windy day, like riding into the sun, or away from it. There are so many different conditions to learn how to ride the safest in. Im still learning......
Last weekend, I was riding in a group returning from the March Hare. They were not riding in a way I considered to be safe, I pulled over and had a ciggy, then rode on. Better for me to be behind them by a few k, than with them when or if turned to shit.

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 15:55

another Lplater who has also been riding with us.

Word to riders....if you're on an Lplate, put your ego in your pocket, shut up and listen to the senior riders,

One or two people getting dangerously close to being on the receiving end of a Rattslap ( metaphorical not literal )

excuse me, who the fuck are you to tell me to shut up , I am not you partner or your husband or kid, and I am certainly not you bitch, you cant tell me to shut up....

WTF is wrong with you, talk about ego, I think its time to put yours in check and you are not the only one.

this is supposed to be a nice relaxed supervised ride, not some ride where senior riders get to stroke their egos and throw their more experienced weight around.

looks like some of you more experience riders (certainly not all) need to look in the mirror, seriously what the fuck is the matter with you. you just cant speak to people like that.

I will PM you so you can go stick my Bronze membership request..

enjoy the Tuesday night dictator ride, I wont be joining the again

seriously what is wrong with you...

bosslady

8th March 2013, 17:00

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 17:16

You on the rag or what?

Cause you sound like you are. Tanty much? Grow up.

I wont be spoken down to, ever...

Ratti

8th March 2013, 17:19

What is wrong with me is that I run a tightly controlled ride for people who have little road experience. I am not a control freak, but time running this ride has taught me that it needs to be tight or riders will be hurt.

Years of dealing with riders who knowitall , has taught me to speak up before they cause harm.

Years of being a new rider and then a returning rider has taught me compassion for ignorant noobs.

Years of being a mama has taught me to ignore tantys, no matter what the age of the thrower.

TheTengTheory

8th March 2013, 17:23

bosslady

8th March 2013, 17:23

I wont be spoken down to, ever...

You're being too sensitive.

bosslady

8th March 2013, 17:29

I think his point while probably abit harsh is that yes there are much more senior riders and yes they definitely have a whole load of experience most than us however it does not give them the right to tell the newbies to shut up just because they think they're better. They generally ARE better but abit of humility in letting the newbie learn goes a long way in cooperation. Not condoning newby knowitalls but it goes both ways. Newbies needa learn to keep their ego and new found skills in check and you oldies needa put your points across in a better format than fuck up I'm better than you....

Yes while I do agree that experience counts for alot...It doesn't mean its the right way either. Its the reasoning and logic that wins the point. Remember experience is both a blessing and a curse.

chill people! :girlfight::headbang:

I kinda see where you're coming from but don't agree. More experienced riders get my respect and I do shut up and listen or ask questions and might mention stuff I've heard or experienced but would never start a thread as a dig at another L plate who, in their opinion, isn't as good as them. Everyone has different learning paces so maybe they are, but that's god damn rude imo. Support, not ridicule or rubbish!

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 17:30

I think his point while probably abit harsh is that yes there are much more senior riders and yes they definitely have a whole load of experience most than us however it does not give them the right to tell the newbies to shut up just because they think they're better. They generally ARE better but abit of humility in letting the newbie learn goes a long way in cooperation. Not condoning newby knowitalls but it goes both ways. Newbies needa learn to keep their ego and new found skills in check and you oldies needa put your points across in a better format than fuck up I'm better than you....

Yes while I do agree that experience counts for alot...It doesn't mean its the right way either. Its the reasoning and logic that wins the point. Remember experience is both a blessing and a curse.

chill people! :girlfight::headbang:

agreed, I this is what I meant to say before I lost my temper.

Ratti

8th March 2013, 17:31

For a bit of perspective, showed this thread to my workmate, she giggled. Thinks its funny as anything, so thanks for cheering her up, she has had a rough day.

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 17:32

You're being too sensitive.

NO I am not, they got NO right to tell me to shut up, END OF STORY, I dont give a shit how much experience they got, you got no right.

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 17:35

this is ridiculous all I wanted to do was ride and meet new people who share a common interest and you ego maniacs gota ruin it.

good riddance

FJRider

8th March 2013, 17:39

excuse me, who the fuck are you to tell me to shut up , I am not you partner or your husband or kid, and I am certainly not you bitch, you cant tell me to shut up....

She just DID .. !!! And if you don't listen to the instructions you're given ... by riders with more experience in situations that you ever imagine ... YOU may be the topic of the next "Rider Down" thread.
Your attendance at any of these rides ... means your agreement to follow instructions given by the senior riders.
You may be lucky enough ... (and live long enough) ... to understand the possible result of NOT following those instructions. Those senior rider have seen that same "result" all too often.

WTF is wrong with you, talk about ego, I think its time to put yours in check and you are not the only one.

Did she hit a nerve diddums ... oh dear. How sad. Never mind ...

this is supposed to be a nice relaxed supervised ride, not some ride where senior riders get to stroke their egos and throw their more experienced weight around.

looks like some of you more experience riders (certainly not all) need to look in the mirror, seriously what the fuck is the matter with you. you just cant speak to people like that.

Experience is something you lack. Try getting some before your next tantrum ... AND ... she can and will talk like that if she feels the need to. Your rider education (and safety) was their intention and considerations ... and for all other riders they believe might be at risk through YOUR actions as well ...

I will PM you so you can go stick my Bronze membership request..

enjoy the Tuesday night dictator ride, I wont be joining the again

seriously what is wrong with you...

You say that ... as if they really give a fuck if you don't return ... Everybody else will be a lot safer ...

TheTengTheory

8th March 2013, 17:42

I kinda see where you're coming from but don't agree. More experienced riders get my respect and I do shut up and listen or ask questions and might mention stuff I've heard or experienced but would never start a thread as a dig at another L plate who, in their opinion, isn't as good as them. Everyone has different learning paces so maybe they are, but that's god damn rude imo. Support, not ridicule or rubbish!

yea we should listen but we shouldn't trust implicidly thats called been a sheep. Critical thinking helps sort the bullshit out.

drdarkmatter: think you needa chill out no? I understand your point of view. No one should order anyone around but I believe they are speaking from a point of view where the rider is throwing his weight around thinking he da bomb but actually he/she is just a lil naive shit and just endangering others....

Those kinda people deserve a whoop up the arse for their arrogance and other riders should be aware of their idiocy. They'll weed themselves out by natural selection anyways...Than we get to vote them for the darwin awards and lol at them. ;)

GrayWolf

8th March 2013, 17:47

Hey all

Mods wasn't sure if this was ok to go here or New members speak so move if you need to.

Not trying to upset anyone with this thread just want to point out some info that should be commonsense but obviously isn't.

Lately ive been riding with a mix of riders from Learners on little bikes to Learners (my uncle) on bigger bikes as well as people who have been riding longer then I have been alive

Yes I have come off before both from my own stupidity and from other peoples

Yes I have had oh shit moments since I got back into riding but because I have been asking questions and working out what to do if something happens I have been ok (touch wood)

I don't like getting into bad situations and tbh if I do then Im not riding correctly in the first place

If anyone wants to comment go for it I am willing to admit when I am wrong :)

Everyone has different confort zones and different bikes

The main thing I always do on a new bike is work out how quick it can stop ie go to a quiet road and get upto 10-20km then try stop then increase the speed good

I also find out what each brake will do good

Small bikes you have to rev they have no power otherwise you need to be in higher revs so you dont bog down don't be afraid to take it towards redline if you have to ( I went over the wairapa with my uncle he was on a 750 ducati and well I was on redline in 5th alot I kept up) WHY?? you are 'killing' your bike to keep up, the onus really is on the bigger bikes to run at a pace you can comfortably keep to.. if they want to blast off for a few K's? That's fine, but they should be watching in THEIR mirror's to make sure they dont lose you.

Lean into corners take correct lines and untill you hit your pegs (or the ground) you can go further (this has saved me before) Errrr no, not really, some bike the pegs are placed so high you are just about in SHITSTREET if you touch them down, knowing the limit of your machine is OK, far better to start learning to read camber, apex, vanishing point, line of sight through a bend, etc etc.. once you have mastered that, the amount of lean you use becomes 'instinctive' there are a lot of classic bends in the area I live that entice you to give it some, and they have adverse cambers.. you 'will get your arse bitten' if you dont ride according to that.
Don't hesitate if you decide to do something do it, if you hesitate and then go your probably going to get taken out NONONONO,, if in doubt? Chicken out, is a far better 'mantra' if you have a seconds thought BEFORE you start to manouver, DONT. Going for it, because you have started the overtake/corner/whatever is a recipe for disaster... you should ALWAYS ride with enough, lean, acceleration, room, braking distance, to take the 'opt out'.. and od course we ALL ride that way here in KB land :pinch::pinch:

If you get scared don't lock the brakes that needs a heap of practice, instinct IS to grab a huge handful (panic brake) concerted practice should leave you with the 'motor skills memory' to apply hard braking at an 'eased off, initial 'frab'.. never had to put it to the test though!

DON"T PANIC <<< yup good plan! :crazy:

umm will think of more latter

Thoughts comments?

Ride your ride, dont let others set your pace...

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 17:49

Experience is something you lack. Try getting some before your next tantrum ... AND ... she can and will talk like that if she feels the need to. Your rider education (and safety) was their intention and considerations ... and for all other riders they believe might be at risk through YOUR actions as well ...

You say that ... as if they really give a fuck if you don't return ... Everybody else will be a lot safer ...

Ok Mr troll, time to go buy a life, I got more than 10 years riding big bikes in the states and Europe, so dont presume to tell me about safer, you are just jumping on the band wagon... Troll

no one was talking to you anyway, Troll

TheTengTheory

8th March 2013, 17:51

She just DID .. !!! And if you don't listen to the instructions you're given ... by riders with more experience in situations that you ever imagine ... YOU may be the topic of the next "Rider Down" thread.
Your attendance at any of these rides ... means your agreement to follow instructions given by the senior riders.
You may be lucky enough ... (and live long enough) ... to understand the possible result of NOT following those instructions. Those senior rider have seen that

You say that ... as if they really give a fuck if you don't return ... Everybody else will be a lot safer ...

As much as I respect you together with your fortune of years and years of riding experience....I do...honest :D.....Experience counts for shit if it isn't backed by logical reasoning. Plus the bad side of experience is that if you've been in said (assumed to be bad riding situation) so many times, makes you wonder whether you're actually learning from it as oppose to surviving out of sheer luck and parading your good fortune.

People have accidents everyday despite been careful. Its not just about your experience, sheer luck if you call it that sometimes comes to play regardless of level of experience.....

did you know there's a 1/2 million chance to die by getting stabbed by a knife facing upwards in a open dishwasher? Read this in a book I bought called 1000ways to die. thats freakin insane.

bosslady

8th March 2013, 17:53

this is ridiculous all I wanted to do was ride and meet new people who share a common interest and you ego maniacs gota ruin it.

good riddance

No. You ruined it for yourself.

FJRider

8th March 2013, 17:57

yea we should listen but we shouldn't trust implicidly thats called been a sheep. Critical thinking helps sort the bullshit out.

When I went to school ... they spelt it implicitly ... so there is obviously plenty (including your Grammar) you fail to understand.
If you have doubts as to the reasons for any instructions you (or anybody else) is given ... ask either the person giving the instructions, or an experienced rider you trust to explain why. They can hardly refuse if the request is polite.

Remember ... sheep rely on each other as a group for survival. And it usually works for them.

And critical thinking can kill you.

Ask questions .... not make statements. And you will find more people have more time to reply ...

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 17:58

yea we should listen but we shouldn't trust implicidly thats called been a sheep. Critical thinking helps sort the bullshit out.

drdarkmatter: think you needa chill out no? I understand your point of view. No one should order anyone around but I believe they are speaking from a point of view where the rider is throwing his weight around thinking he da bomb but actually he/she is just a lil naive shit and just endangering others....

Those kinda people deserve a whoop up the arse for their arrogance and other riders should be aware of their idiocy. They'll weed themselves out by natural selection anyways...Than we get to vote them for the darwin awards and lol at them. ;)

Yup I was harsh, do I regret it, maybe and I probably would have apologized if not for all persons who were not there, bandwagon jumpers on, trolls and busy bodies. I am not any more fussed than she is about telling people to shut up, she obviously thinks she is right and I think I am write, I dont need to take that, there is NO need, its ego pure and simple

Mom

8th March 2013, 18:00

Lets hope it stays civil :spanking:

More experienced riders get my respect and I do shut up and listen or ask questions and might mention stuff I've heard or experienced but would never start a thread as a dig at another L plate who, in their opinion, isn't as good as them. Everyone has different learning paces so maybe they are, but that's god damn rude imo. Support, not ridicule or rubbish!

What a great post! Support, not ridicule or rubbish!

True for every situation. We are none so great etc...

yea we should listen but we shouldn't trust implicidly thats called been a sheep. Critical thinking helps sort the bullshit out.

And aint that the truth! THINK! At all times.

drdarkmatter: think you needa chill out no? I understand your point of view. No one should order anyone around but I believe they are speaking from a point of view where the rider is throwing his weight around thinking he da bomb but actually he/she is just a lil naive shit and just endangering others....

Those kinda people deserve a whoop up the arse for their arrogance and other riders should be aware of their idiocy. They'll weed themselves out by natural selection anyways...Than we get to vote them for the darwin awards and lol at them. ;)

Sometimes the message can get lost in it's delivery, just ask Katman!

I have absolutely no doubt that the experienced riders running that ride are doing a fantastic job of providing a safe, learner friendly ride experience. I take my hat off to them actually for the committment they show. If the delivery of the message becomes a little blunt at times :tough shit:

It is all about the safety of all on the ride. If some learners dont want to fit the model, or feel they are being dictated to, good riddance would be my reaction. Good luck and ride safe would be parting comment.

Mom

8th March 2013, 18:02

Ok Mr troll, time to go buy a life, I got more than 10 years riding big bikes in the states and Europe, so dont presume to tell me about safer, you are just jumping on the band wagon... Troll

no one was talking to you anyway, Troll

Goodness, chill pills perhaps? You are a better troll :yes:

bosslady

8th March 2013, 18:03

FJRider

8th March 2013, 18:04

Experience counts for shit if it isn't backed by logical reasoning.

Which instruction that YOU were given ... that was not logical ... that could not be easily understood why it was given .. ???

Katman

8th March 2013, 18:04

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 18:06

It is all about the safety of all on the ride. If some learners dont want to fit the model, or feel they are being dictated to, good riddance would be my reaction. Good luck and ride safe would be parting comment.

wow,

I have to fit a a model, how ignorant, Hitler and Stalin said that too, no matter, that comment sums it all up eh? talk about sheep, just go and follow each other off the cliff...

Bald Eagle

8th March 2013, 18:07

she obviously thinks she is right and I think I am write, I dont need to take that, there is NO need, its ego pure and simple

I do believe it's her ride and rep here.
So Johnny come lately If you don't, like it take your bat & balls and go play somewhere else, or stfu

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Mom

8th March 2013, 18:08

wow,

I have to fit a a model, how ignorant, Hitler and Stalin said that too, no matter, that comment sums it all up eh? talk about sheep, just go and follow each other off the cliff...

GODWIN at its best. Game over :love:

Katman

8th March 2013, 18:08

Have we just discovered the next DB?

DrDarkMatter

8th March 2013, 18:15

I am done, I am sorry I said anything, I regret everything I said expect about the shut up part, sorry peeps you pressed a button.

Katman

8th March 2013, 18:20

I am done, I am sorry I said anything, I regret everything I said expect about the shut up part, sorry peeps you pressed a button.

Cool.

Your words will go down in KB folklore.

Subike

8th March 2013, 18:21

Have we just discovered the next DB?

could be a new skidmark........well, thats what we will see at the corner before we pick him up off the road.

Dragon

8th March 2013, 18:23

Ride your ride, dont let others set your pace...

Thank you someone who actually gave the feedback i was after :)

While there is alot of good info in here as well it seems to behidden by alot of arguments my original post was not trying to have ago at anyone i was trying to get some feedback and info out there if it has come across as me having an ego i am sorry and had i realized it would get like this i wouldn't have bothered i was not trying to bag anyone

TheTengTheory

8th March 2013, 18:26

Which instruction that YOU were given ... that was not logical ... that could not be easily understood why it was given .. ???

I don't expect anyone to agree with what I say on principle. If they choose to...*bleat*.....My statement makes logical sense if you apply critical thinking. If it doesn't, please for the love of all things motorbikes prove me wrong....As ego deflating as it is.....I'll rather be humilated than ignorant.

Whew....so basically those rides ain't for jackasses.....Apart from NASS or SASS are there anything similiar in auckland? If there's one thing I enjoy more than riding, it's riding WITH people.....A grin graces my face everytime I wave and get waved by a passing rider. That is one of my favourite parts of riding.

sugilite

8th March 2013, 18:27

"We are family, I got my brothers, and sisters with me"

Deep breaths people, it's only an online forum :yes:

Remember, motorcycles make the best therapists ever! :cool:

Katman

8th March 2013, 18:29

Thank you someone who actually gave the feedback i was after :)

No, what you were after was "Cool story bro. You should teach L platers".

Here's the kicker though - your story was shit.

Owl

8th March 2013, 18:30

she obviously thinks she is right and I think I am write

So who is write right?

So confusing:wacko:

ducatilover

8th March 2013, 18:31

wow,

I have to fit a a model, how ignorant, Hitler and Stalin said that too, no matter, that comment sums it all up eh? talk about sheep, just go and follow each other off the cliff...

Oh come now, I highly doubt Mom has the facial hair to manage to be so evil.

This thread's fucked, Katman's making me laugh and I ran out of rep. KB has gone wonky :sweatdrop supposed Hitlers getting more posts than something about actual motorcycles :facepalm:

Katman

8th March 2013, 18:32

So who is write right?

So confusing:wacko:

Never say DB's surname into a mirror.

GrayWolf

8th March 2013, 18:33

excuse me, who the fuck are you to tell me to shut up , I am not you partner or your husband or kid, and I am certainly not you bitch, you cant tell me to shut up....

WTF is wrong with you, talk about ego, I think its time to put yours in check and you are not the only one.

this is supposed to be a nice relaxed supervised ride, not some ride where senior riders get to stroke their egos and throw their more experienced weight around.

looks like some of you more experience riders (certainly not all) need to look in the mirror, seriously what the fuck is the matter with you. you just cant speak to people like that.

I will PM you so you can go stick my Bronze membership request..

enjoy the Tuesday night dictator ride, I wont be joining the again

seriously what is wrong with you...

I'll explain what is wrong with you,,, Seriously!

I went on my second one of those rides last Tuesday due to working shifts,,, it was a very slow paced ride and I will admit to finding it a tad 'difficult'..
Reason
big V twin, and the speed was right on the 'cusp' of snatching on the chain in the next gear up, and 'revving' to 2000 rpm in the gear below, leaving me with a constant 'box dance' which I haven't had to do in eons. Because I ride mostly on my own by choice and at my own speed, I dont ride at those sort of 'reduced' speeds on this bike at all,, I need a little practice methinks...

But OOOOOO, I've been riding 39yrs this August, what possibly could Ratti and her other Senior riders show me?? :wacko:

If you cannot understand the reason for the 'dictate' as you put it, then you likely never will, it can be summed up in one word.. SAFETY!
not only to keep you safe from those around you, but to keep those around you 'safe' from you. :brick::brick:

Last Tuesday the 'tail end charlie' rider was a tad miffed on arrival at the destination... Why? A simple instruction, if you lose sight of the rider behind in your mirrors, STOP. by doing this, the 'crocodile' soon comes to a halt and the lead rider(s) can retrace back to the 'problem'... One rider DIDNT stop, so the other 95% of the group arrived at the destination almost 10 minutes ahead of 'tail end charlie' and one very novice rider...... Had there been an accident? the rest of the group and other organiser were none the wiser....... all because one rider didnt do as asked in the group situation.

But I guess that is just being a Dictator, isnt it?

FJRider

8th March 2013, 18:40

I don't expect anyone to agree with what I say on principle. If they choose to...*bleat*.....My statement makes logical sense if you apply critical thinking. If it doesn't, please for the love of all things motorbikes prove me wrong....As ego deflating as it is.....I'll rather be humilated than ignorant.

Try applying logical thinking ... you might learn more, and you get a better result ... (is that critical enough .. ???)

Whew....so basically those rides ain't for jackasses.....Apart from NASS or SASS are there anything similiar in auckland? If there's one thing I enjoy more than riding, it's riding WITH people.....A grin graces my face everytime I wave and get waved by a passing rider. That is one of my favourite parts of riding.

Such rides are not for those that just want to "meet people and ride their bike" ... a dating service might have better results ..

Remember ... waving is dangerous. A lot of people crash while waving ...

Katman

8th March 2013, 18:43

If there's one thing I enjoy more than riding, it's riding WITH people.....A grin graces my face everytime I wave and get waved by a passing rider. That is one of my favourite parts of riding.

That sounds like a Honda ad.

Jantar

8th March 2013, 18:49

...Last Tuesday the 'tail end charlie' rider was a tad miffed on arrival at the destination... Why? A simple instruction, if you lose sight of the rider behind in your mirrors, STOP. by doing this, the 'crocodile' soon comes to a halt and the lead rider(s) can retrace back to the 'problem'... One rider DIDNT stop, so the other 95% of the group arrived at the destination almost 10 minutes ahead of 'tail end charlie' and one very novice rider...... Had there been an accident? the rest of the group and other organiser were none the wiser....... all because one rider didnt do as asked in the group situation.

But I guess that is just being a Dictator, isnt it?

Let me guess. That rider would be one of the 250cc riders on here that is complaining the loudest?

Mom

8th March 2013, 18:50

But I guess that is just being a Dictator, isnt it?

ja vol!

Nice post BTW. I really have no clue about what spurred this thread originally. I read the OP and a few more, and was sufficiently concerned to ask the rest of the forum about keeping up. Something of a bug bare with me. I am usually the one holding others up you see. I give a fat rats (sorry Ratti) arse about that, and have almost never been made to feel that was a problem. I dont ride with people that might think it is.

Ratti

8th March 2013, 18:56

Ratti

8th March 2013, 18:57

I give a fat rats (sorry Ratti) arse about that, and have almost never been made to feel that was a problem. I dont ride with people that might think it is.

It's ok Mom...I am a fat Ratt, and I do have an arse, as well as giving one about the safety of learner riders.

FJRider

8th March 2013, 19:09

I believe the rider was DDM.....

Maybe .... in a few years ... DDM will be TEC on a group ride.

Similar instructions will be given re: your following rider.

He may find himself in a ditch.

And nobody stops.

oneofsix

8th March 2013, 19:21

Maybe .... in a few years ... DDM will be TEC on a group ride.

Similar instructions will be given re: your following rider.

He may find himself in a ditch.

And nobody stops.

Ohhh a friendly caring bunch aren't we? Disagree with someone and wish them in a ditch without help. :2thumbsup

Howie

8th March 2013, 19:25

I'll explain what is wrong with you,,, Seriously!

Last Tuesday the 'tail end charlie' rider was a tad miffed on arrival at the destination... Why? A simple instruction, if you lose sight of the rider behind in your mirrors, STOP. by doing this, the 'crocodile' soon comes to a halt and the lead rider(s) can retrace back to the 'problem'... One rider DIDNT stop, so the other 95% of the group arrived at the destination almost 10 minutes ahead of 'tail end charlie' and one very novice rider...... Had there been an accident? the rest of the group and other organiser were none the wiser....... all because one rider didnt do as asked in the group situation.

But I guess that is just being a Dictator, isnt it?

Wasn't going to comment in here but some of the comments by Senior riders, and mature people are getting to me.

A few points I see from a different perspective as I was not on "the ride" but happened to ride down to the Wainuiomata Coast at approximately the same time, and park in the same parking area.

a few observations from the outside of this group by someone with over 30 years riding experience, which includes being a Road ride organiser for a popular bike club in the 1980's, being a clerk of course at race meetings, and MNZ club steward at various times. (Currently none of the above)

1, I rode past 2 riders stopped on the side of the road, slowed a bit and got a thumbs up that all was ok.

2, I parked in the same park as the group on this ride.

3, Not ONE person on ride asked me if I had passed anyone, and this is down a no exit road for 15+ KM. so the senior riders are really concerned about safety???

4, I spoke to one rider who I had met recently on another ride.

5, When the 2 bikes that I'd past earlier arrived. The person who I would have to assume was the TEC launches into what I would describe as a highly offensive and abusive tirade about who ever didn't stop when they lost sight of the bike behind and basically demanded to know who it was.

6, I was actually embarrassed to be there! And that doesn't happen easily

7, I had observed the Tuesday night thread occasionally, and thought that these rides sounded like a good idea and that I might get involved with them at some stage, but what I saw Tuesday put me right off that idea.

Maybe some of the "senior Riders" need to look at the reasons they are involved?

Katman

8th March 2013, 19:29

Maybe some of the "senior Riders" need to look at the reasons they are involved?

Can we still laugh about the meltdown?

bosslady

8th March 2013, 19:31

I don't expect anyone to agree with what I say on principle. If they choose to...*bleat*.....My statement makes logical sense if you apply critical thinking. If it doesn't, please for the love of all things motorbikes prove me wrong....As ego deflating as it is.....I'll rather be humilated than ignorant.

Whew....so basically those rides ain't for jackasses.....Apart from NASS or SASS are there anything similiar in auckland? If there's one thing I enjoy more than riding, it's riding WITH people.....A grin graces my face everytime I wave and get waved by a passing rider. That is one of my favourite parts of riding.
Don't think so, that I know of, that not your thing? sass or nass I mean

Ohhh a friendly caring bunch aren't we? Disagree with someone and wish them in a ditch without help. :2thumbsup

I am certain that's not his wish, rhetorical.

Jantar

8th March 2013, 19:35

...... I am certain that's not his wish, rhetorical.

Knowing how much FJrider goes out of his way to assist other riders I know that wasn't his wish. Merely a possibility.

FJRider

8th March 2013, 19:36

Ohhh a friendly caring bunch aren't we? Disagree with someone and wish them in a ditch without help. :2thumbsup

Not so much "uncaring" ... but Karma can be a bitch.

Maha

8th March 2013, 19:37

Last Tuesday the 'tail end charlie' rider was a tad miffed on arrival at the destination... Why? A simple instruction, if you lose sight of the rider behind in your mirrors, STOP. by doing this, the 'crocodile' soon comes to a halt and the lead rider(s) can retrace back to the 'problem'... One rider DIDNT stop, so the other 95% of the group arrived at the destination almost 10 minutes ahead of 'tail end charlie' and one very novice rider...... Had there been an accident? the rest of the group and other organiser were none the wiser....... all because one rider didnt do as asked in the group situation.

But I guess that is just being a Dictator, isnt it?

We have tried that 'if you lose sight of the rider behind in your mirrors, STOP' scenario only the once on our group rides...it failed.
Wont ever use it again...I now split the group in the more managable numbers of 6-8 bikes.
The group leader has full control of what goes on and I advise that, if they (the group leader) loose sight of his/her TEC, then simply slow the pace up for 1-2 kms until they catch up..works a treat.
On two occassions, I have had leaders just go on ahead and not give a second thought to those following, lesson learned and it wont happen again.

I personally always lead the slower/newer riders and use the 'slow it up' technique to great effect.
Every rider within the group should have the organisers cell number.

oneofsix

8th March 2013, 19:43

Can we still laugh about the meltdown?

I am certain that's not his wish, rhetorical.

Having been there and watch it, this and another thread unfold I don't think so.

Katman

8th March 2013, 19:49

Having been there and watch it, this and another thread unfold I don't think so.

I don't understand that post but it's late on a Friday.

One or the other of us may have been drinking.

bosslady

8th March 2013, 19:50

Having been there and watch it, this and another thread unfold I don't think so.

he likes to wind ppl up sometimes sure, but I firmly believe he does not wish ill of anyone. Agree to disagree.

yungatart

8th March 2013, 19:52

excuse me, who the fuck are you to tell me to shut up , I am not you partner or your husband or kid, and I am certainly not you bitch, you cant tell me to shut up....

seriously what is wrong with you...

She is the ride organiser, if it all turns tits up, she is the one who wears the blame, the police investigation, possibly a coronial inquest, and someone's death on her conscience! If you don't like the way she organises it, you don't have to ride on that ride. Simple eh?

Have we just discovered the next DB?
Oh, God, please, no....

Katman

8th March 2013, 19:54

Having been there and watch it, this and another thread unfold I don't think so.

Fuck me, I've just figured out your post.

I was talking about the handbag throwing tantrum meltdown.

I don't know which is worse - that you didn't figure that out or that you thought I was looking forward to laughing at a motorcycle accident.

Mom

8th March 2013, 19:56

She is the ride organiser, if it all turns tits up, she is the one who wears the blame, the police investigation, possibly a coronial inquest, and someone's death on her conscience! If you don't like the way she organises it, you don't have to ride on that ride. Simple eh?

Oh, God, please, no....

Some.People.Are.A.Bit.Dull.

DB was simply a Dangerous Bastard on a greater level than we realised :lol:

oneofsix

8th March 2013, 19:58

Not so much "uncaring" ... but Karma can be a bitch.

In that case you had better ride safe.

Yes, as Ratti has outed, DDM did make a mistake and owned it on the night in the face of a very angry rant which in itself took kahuna's, but any discussion of why the cock-up was made or what improvements could be made get shouted down. Perhaps people will look at Maha's post as he is not an L-plater, however personally I see the mirrors technique can work but need some supporting actions as well.

There should be plenty of grammar and spelling in there to have a go at so that the message can be avoided - enjoy.

GTRMAN

8th March 2013, 20:41

Can we still laugh about the meltdown?

Absolutely!

Bald Eagle

8th March 2013, 21:41

3, Not ONE person on ride asked me if I had passed anyone, and this is down a no exit road for 15+ KM. so the senior riders are really concerned about safety???

One slice of humble pie for me thanks Howie as Ride Lead I should have asked the question

oneofsix

8th March 2013, 21:53

Fuck me, I've just figured out your post.

I was talking about the handbag throwing tantrum meltdown.

I don't know which is worse - that you didn't figure that out or that you thought I was looking forward to laughing at a motorcycle accident.

Never thought you would laugh at a bike accident but I did miss the handbag bit and thought you meant the general meltdown that appeared to be occurring. Only drink involved this side of the keyboard was caffeine or lack of.

FJRider

8th March 2013, 22:25

One slice of humble pie for me thanks Howie as Ride Lead I should have asked the question

I'm sure he would have mentioned anything of dire importance ... that needed reporting. Had there been anything that needed reporting ... to the group leader.

I'm just wondering why he didn't mention the two riders stopped that gave him the thumbs up ... to anybody.

Howie

8th March 2013, 22:43

One slice of humble pie for me thanks Howie as Ride Lead I should have asked the question

My comments weren't aimed at anyone in particular, Just my observations from outside the group.

I'm sure he would have mentioned anything of dire importance ... that needed reporting. Had there been anything that needed reporting ... to the group leader.

I'm just wondering why he didn't mention the two riders stopped that gave him the thumbs up ... to anybody.

Interesting point the first one as yes I probably would of mentioned a bike crash if I saw one. Although to the group leader? probably not as i had no idea who that was.

Why would I? The 2 bikes I mentioned were stopped just before leaving the built up area of Wainui. I wasn't part of the ride, didn't know how long the group had been parked before I got there, and didn't know they were missing anyone!

sugilite

8th March 2013, 22:55

Why would I? The 2 bikes I mentioned were stopped just before leaving the built up area of Wainui. I wasn't part of the ride, didn't know how long the group had been parked before I got there, and didn't know they were missing anyone!

Absolutely fair enough there!

I think I might know you. You rode a blue and white GSXR750G over the takas a lot in about 1987?

FJRider

8th March 2013, 22:57

My comments weren't aimed at anyone in particular, Just my observations from outside the group.

And some bold opinions of what you thought of the group ...

Why would I? The 2 bikes I mentioned were stopped just before leaving the built up area of Wainui. I wasn't part of the ride, didn't know how long the group had been parked before I got there, and didn't know they were missing anyone!

Why ... ??? they used to call it common courtesy ... and you were talking to a member on the ride you knew from another ride.

But really it was not your ride ... and not your problem.

Perhaps the group leader didn't realize you weren't on his ride.

GrayWolf

8th March 2013, 23:18

Let me guess. That rider would be one of the 250cc riders on here that is complaining the loudest?

DUH just realised what you were saying,,, yes it was a 250 rider who was a novice, but they are not doing the complaining

GrayWolf

8th March 2013, 23:22

I believe the rider was DDM.....

I wasnt going to mention any names!!!

GDOBSSOR

8th March 2013, 23:26

Let me guess. That rider would be one of the 250cc riders on here that is complaining the loudest?

Nope. It was me, and I am pretty embarrassed about it actually.

sugilite

8th March 2013, 23:32

Nope. It was me, and I am pretty embarrassed about it actually.

At least you acknowledging that, good on ya. Plenty on here could learn from that.

GrayWolf

8th March 2013, 23:41

Wasn't going to comment in here but some of the comments by Senior riders, and mature people are getting to me.

A few points I see from a different perspective as I was not on "the ride" but happened to ride down to the Wainuiomata Coast at approximately the same time, and park in the same parking area.

a few observations from the outside of this group by someone with over 30 years riding experience, which includes being a Road ride organiser for a popular bike club in the 1980's, being a clerk of course at race meetings, and MNZ club steward at various times. (Currently none of the above)
I would consider myself an 'outsider' to the group, and a friend of mine on her ER would be an 'outsider' I am not picking a 'fight' but to say 30yrs experience, track clerk etc etc, is trying to give an impression your opinion carries 'weight'... I've ridden all my adult life (39 yrs) and have done training etc,,,, so does my opinion carry as much, or more? In MY opinion, I am NOT a Qualified Instructor, Mentor, or any type of formal training to impart knowledge, so My opinion has no more weight than any other person's.

1, I rode past 2 riders stopped on the side of the road, slowed a bit and got a thumbs up that all was ok.

2, I parked in the same park as the group on this ride.

3, Not ONE person on ride asked me if I had passed anyone, and this is down a no exit road for 15+ KM. so the senior riders are really concerned about safety??? Agreed, I was chatting to other riders also, and as a non organiser did not see any high level of concern on the lead riders countenance, (cell phone could have been used to contact?) So did not feel any major concern.

4, I spoke to one rider who I had met recently on another ride.

5, When the 2 bikes that I'd past earlier arrived. The person who I would have to assume was the TEC launches into what I would describe as a highly offensive and abusive tirade about who ever didn't stop when they lost sight of the bike behind and basically demanded to know who it was.

6, I was actually embarrassed to be there! And that doesn't happen easily
I was actually the rider who spoke up that the delivery of the message was somewhat 'off' and there was no need to talk to the group in that manner

7, I had observed the Tuesday night thread occasionally, and thought that these rides sounded like a good idea and that I might get involved with them at some stage, but what I saw Tuesday put me right off that idea.

Maybe some of the "senior Riders" need to look at the reasons they are involved?

I spoke with the TEC after, He DID apologise to the whole group for his irate manner, and it seems this was NOT the first instance of this happening

GrayWolf

8th March 2013, 23:53

Nope. It was me, and I am pretty embarrassed about it actually.

You have nothing to be embarrassed about,,, you needed to take the time you needed to get to the destination, if you had to stop? why feel you did wrong? That is putting yourself under 'pressure' for no reason!

GDOBSSOR

9th March 2013, 00:06

You have nothing to be embarrassed about,,, you needed to take the time you needed to get to the destination, if you had to stop? why feel you did wrong? That is putting yourself under 'pressure' for no reason!

I was very stressed as I did not know the route, and I didn't think to look back in my mirrors at the TEC. I got even more stressed and my riding suffered as a result, so he pulled me over to calm down before he let me ride again.

Mushu

9th March 2013, 00:51

The op seemed to be hinting at the learners that split up the pack because they are not comfortable enough to keep an acceptable speed on the rd, we've all seen them. I won't ride with them but am happy to offer my dr650 and a paddock until you feel confident before getting back on the rd.

DDM, you need to pull your head in, you went on a group ride with people you don't know, you didn't do what was asked of you (and it seems you discussed this at length on that thread before the ride) and you copped some abuse for it, so what, deal with it.

As far as learners taking advice from experienced riders, what defines an experienced rider, 50 years experience doesn't mean much if they only ride sunny weekends on motorways - if you display an L plate expect everyone who doesn't display an L to claim they have advice. My advice is research, ask more people, check forums and YouTube, read a book. (funny how often you come across conflicting advice, there's plenty of experienced riders out there that aren't even aware of techniques as basic as counter steering.)

Actually, start with the book.
Keith Code's A twist of the wrist 2
Still by far the best single reference source I have found on the subject.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

Jantar

9th March 2013, 07:09

DUH just realised what you were saying,,, yes it was a 250 rider who was a novice, but they are not doing the complaining

I wasn't meaning the slow rider that the TEC stayed with that was the cause of the problem, but rather the one that didn't slow down when he could no longer see the next rider in his mirror.

Nope. It was me, and I am pretty embarrassed about it actually.

There is absolutely no reason for you to feel embarrassed. Riding at a pace that you are most comfortable with is the SAFEST way to ride. The more skillfull riders should be able to slow their pace to match yours. The fact that at least two others are complaining that you couldn't keep up is merely showing their lack of ability to ride slower.

Maha

9th March 2013, 07:50

In that case you had better ride safe.

Yes, as Ratti has outed, DDM did make a mistake and owned it on the night in the face of a very angry rant which in itself took kahuna's, but any discussion of why the cock-up was made or what improvements could be made get shouted down. Perhaps people will look at Maha's post as he is not an L-plater, however personally I see the mirrors technique can work but need some supporting actions as well.

There should be plenty of grammar and spelling in there to have a go at so that the message can be avoided - enjoy.

I must point out that, the reason the 'check your mirror' system failed on our ride was, because all you need is one not to do it, and it wont work...and thats what happened.
The L's Angels ride rules have been culled to five only...they are clear and concise. I found that to many 'instuctions' and people don't hear you, all they want to do is ride thier bike.
We have found the best safety policy is to ride in smaller groups ie: 20 bikes gets split into three groups.

Yes the mirror technique can work, and it should work, but more often than not, it doesn't.
If I am leading a group of 7-8 bikes and we are closing in on a turn, I will slow the ride down until the TEC is in sight then preceed all together, or, if I get to a turn without the group, I will pull over to the left and wait, it only takes 20-30 seconds at most, no drama and never fails.

Ratti

9th March 2013, 07:53

GDOBSSOR, you are not a problem, you are the reason WHY I choose to run these rides every year.

Riders who fail to follow simple instructions in a small group are a problem - every year.

Howie

9th March 2013, 07:56

Absolutely fair enough there!

I think I might know you. You rode a blue and white GSXR750G over the takas a lot in about 1987?

Yep you probably do know me, but it was a GSXR750F, and I probably spent less time than a lot of people back then on the takas as I liked the back roads even back then.

And some bold opinions of what you thought of the group ...

No Bolder than your comments to a leaner rider without even being there at all

Why ... ??? they used to call it common courtesy ... and you were talking to a member on the ride you knew from another ride.

Really? I didn't see any concern in the group about them missing a couple of riders so why would I raise it?

But really it was not your ride ... and not your problem.

The problem I have is not what happened on the ride, but the comments on this forum aimed at the OP (learner rider?)of this thread who raised an issue he saw on the ride.

Perhaps the group leader didn't realize you weren't on his ride.

I'm fairly sure he would of realised I wasn't on his ride as I parked in a different area of the carpark, The bike I was on is a dual purpose bike that is fairly distinctive, so he would of remembered seeing the bike at the ride meeting point.

MSTRS

9th March 2013, 08:06

...(funny how often you come across conflicting advice, there's plenty of experienced riders out there that aren't even aware of techniques as basic as counter steering.)

...

Oh god - that subject is almost as touchy as the DangerousBastard/MyCockIsSoaked one.
There's a ACC dvd out there with Aaron Slight on it claiming countersteering is a myth - "you just lean and the bike goes round" - yet EVERY single experiment done with experienced riders on a bike with locked steering ended with the riders going straight off the track at the first corner.

Is that proof that not every experienced rider has a complete understanding of how the whole shebang works?

Maha

9th March 2013, 08:06

GDOBSSOR, you are not a problem, you are the reason WHY I choose to run these rides every year.

Riders who fail to follow simple instructions in a small group are a problem - every year.

What some fail to realise Ratti is, there is alot of preperation that goes into organising a 'properly run' group ride, even regular ones. On one particular ride, I had said where the first coffee stop was, and the first group took it upon themselves to stop somewhere else. Now, normally if we have 24-25 bikes on an away tour, I would phone ahead and let the Cafe owners know that we are coming, lucky for me (and the Cafe owner) on this occassion, I did not do that.

Lunch and Breakfasts stop are always set in stone.
And as YT pointed out earlier, if something goes tits up on a group ride, who is the finger pointed at?
If the clear instuctions are not to your liking, then the time leave that ride is before it even starts.

Howie

9th March 2013, 08:14

I would consider myself an 'outsider' to the group, and a friend of mine on her ER would be an 'outsider' I am not picking a 'fight' but to say 30yrs experience, track clerk etc etc, is trying to give an impression your opinion carries 'weight'... I've ridden all my adult life (39 yrs) and have done training etc,,,, so does my opinion carry as much, or more? In MY opinion, I am NOT a Qualified Instructor, Mentor, or any type of formal training to impart knowledge, so My opinion has no more weight than any other person's.

My comments on my experiences in motorcycling were just meant as a way to introduce myself as I don't comment much in this forum.

Katman

9th March 2013, 08:22

The problem I have is not what happened on the ride, but the comments on this forum aimed at the OP (learner rider?)of this thread who raised an issue he saw on the ride.

Well actually the issue regarding the ride was that of a system failure.

Instead of making the thread about that, the OP started a thread encouraging learner riders to try harder to keep up.

He's rightly being flamed for it.

MSTRS

9th March 2013, 08:42

GrayWolf

9th March 2013, 09:05

Howie

9th March 2013, 09:17

Well actually the issue regarding the ride was that of a system failure.

Instead of making the thread about that, the OP started a thread encouraging learner riders to try harder to keep up.

He's rightly being flamed for it.

That is a very good way of putting it. So the OP started a thread about what they thought was the a way to solve the system failure (possibly without seeing it as a system failure) and got flamed for it instead of the thread being diverted to finding a good solution to the issue.

There are a couple of posts buried in here mentioning ways of removing the potential for the system failure happening. So although the OP method may not be the correct one. If the ride organiser's look through the thread maybe a slightly different ride format can be used in the future so all the riders get to have an enjoyable ride without the need to feel any undue pressure or embarrassment. Everyones riding is at different levels even so called experienced riders.

MSTRS

9th March 2013, 09:51

aka The Zone. When all factors combine to create the perfect riding experience. For THAT rider.

Katman

9th March 2013, 09:53

aka The Zone. When all factors combine to create the perfect riding experience. For THAT rider.

aka....

<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TT81IaZhFYE/Tb_FBE-7ysI/AAAAAAAAAF4/zq1JRV4KAbc/s1600/textmining-worms-copy.jpg"/>

_Shrek_

9th March 2013, 10:00

could be a new skidmark........well, thats what we will see at the corner before we pick him up off the road.

:Oi: don't give skidders a bad name

Ok Mr troll, time to go buy a life, I got more than 10 years riding big bikes in the states and Europe, so dont presume to tell me about safer, you are just jumping on the band wagon... Troll

a hole 10 years less than 12 may be! don't mean shit where safer is concerned sonny, ps Trev an't the troll I am :motu:

you just cant speak to people like that.

O yes we can..... I ran a Wensday night nana ride in CHCH for a season.... for the learners or slow what ever you wanted, & you did obey the rules or got told to push off or shut up & listen, end of story sonny

but carry on this is entertaining :corn:

Dragon

9th March 2013, 10:18

Seems everyone has a different idea what i meant with the original post and it wasn't specifically about this ride sigh i give up i have pmd anyone who i wanted ti clear things up with important just going to ignore anything that has been said that isn't constructive

DrDarkMatter

9th March 2013, 10:28

I unreservedly apologize to everyone here for my out bursts, no excuse just lost the plot.

Ratti

9th March 2013, 10:47

Finally....I was telling my BaldEagle this morning that the one thing I hadn't yet seen on the thread was the inevitable popcorn post...must just about be a KB record for it to have taken this long to pop up. Thanks Shrek!

Dragon has contacted me via pm and I think we have it sorted now.
DDM has also contacted me via pm.

I think we can leave this thread alone now Peoples, entertaining tho it has been, the issues are under control. Lessons have been learnt ( let's see if they are applied ) and bling received from some unexpected people.....( you ok there Katman? I worry about you sometimes dude )

Moving right along, the Tuesday Ride lives on. See you there.

MSTRS

9th March 2013, 11:12

Who's gunna turn the lights off and lock up tho?

Mom

9th March 2013, 11:15

you did obey the rules or got told to push off or shut up & listen, end of story sonny

Who's gunna turn the lights off and lock up tho?

Good way to end it...:done:

Mrs Shrek

9th March 2013, 11:57

Who's gunna turn the lights off and lock up tho?

:rolleyes: the "goodnight Kiwi" of course

GrayWolf

9th March 2013, 13:33

aka

I wish you'd read the theory before making such ridiculous comments KM, the theory of 'Flow' is about skill and challenge, absorption, in an activity so it is enjoyable. The Zone as it is so often called and you are calling a can of worms?
I can only assume from that, you NEVER enjoy riding? obviously to you, a state of 'flow' is not acceptable to the riding experience.. In which case I actually pity you, how sad it must be for your riding to be such a chore!

Katman

9th March 2013, 13:44

I wish you'd read the theory before making such ridiculous comments KM, the theory of 'Flow' is about skill and challenge, absorption, in an activity so it is enjoyable. The Zone as it is so often called and you are calling a can of worms?
I can only assume from that, you NEVER enjoy riding? obviously to you, a state of 'flow' is not acceptable to the riding experience.. In which case I actually pity you, how sad it must be for your riding to be such a chore!

There has been lengthy discussion on here before about this 'Zone'.

Far too many see it as a state of intense focus on what they're 'doing' - to the detriment of being fully aware of what's going on around them.

Mushu

9th March 2013, 14:13

There has been lengthy discussion on here before about this 'Zone'.

Far too many see it as a state of intense focus on what they're 'doing' - to the detriment of being fully aware of what's going on around them.

That's really just people not understanding the message, there are always those that fell the need to ride flat out all the time, they have missed the point entirely.

If done correctly the flow feels like a slow cruise despite often actually being at high speed, it's all about anticipating what's happening and reacting ahead of time where possible.

It should be learned at slow pace, and you know you're in the 'zone' if you look at your speedo and you think it's broken cos there no way your riding that fast.

A few weeks ago I was riding the leader valley on the r6 just enjoying the ride trying to stay subdued, at one point I looked down and saw the speedo reading 50ks higher than I expected it to be, that is the flow/zone.

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Katman

9th March 2013, 14:20

If done correctly the flow feels like a slow cruise despite often actually being at high speed, it's all about anticipating what's happening and reacting ahead of time where possible.

It should be learned at slow pace, and you know you're in the 'zone' if you look at your speedo and you think it's broken cos there no way your riding that fast.

A few weeks ago I was riding the leader valley on the r6 just enjoying the ride trying to stay subdued, at one point I looked down and saw the speedo reading 50ks higher than I expected it to be, that is the flow/zone.

Yep, that's why I think the whole thing's a crock of shit.

bosslady

9th March 2013, 14:28

Yep, that's why I think the whole thing's a crock of shit.

You said a sweary :eek5:

Katman

9th March 2013, 14:29

Not a bad book by any means... I would suggest the DEFINITIVE book to read is the Uk Police, Motorcycle Roadcraft manual. That and it's car oriented Roadcraft Manual, are probably the MOST definitive books and are the ones used as the basis for most advanced driving/riding schools. They are NOT track oriented, but purely 'road skills' for the rider/driver....

What does this book say about 'The Zone' GW?

FJRider

9th March 2013, 14:46

I wish you'd read the theory before making such ridiculous comments KM, the theory of 'Flow' is about skill and challenge, absorption, in an activity so it is enjoyable. The Zone as it is so often called and you are calling a can of worms?
I can only assume from that, you NEVER enjoy riding? obviously to you, a state of 'flow' is not acceptable to the riding experience.. In which case I actually pity you, how sad it must be for your riding to be such a chore!

It is enjoyable ... but a selfish state of mind to be in.

It not the speed that is the problem at such times ... just the entire focus of what immediately concerns your attention as each second passes. No thought of what (or who) may be entering "Your Zone" ... and how that may affect your actions. Or the results of those actions.

Theories are all well and good .... but few take into account the exceptions that affect the theories.

For most "in the zone" ... it is just ME and NOW ...

Mushu

9th March 2013, 15:26

Yep, that's why I think the whole thing's a crock of shit.

So you have completely missed the point as well, the speed is not the goal, smooth is the goal, you are still on the road and still responsible for your own actions.

Any racer will agree that you have to be smooth to be fast no matter what kind of racing they do. So if you are working on being smooth you will tend to bring the speed up but without leaving your comfort zone, as soon as you push past your abilities you lose the flow and must slow down to regain it.

If I am riding in the zone my attention doesn't just disappear you still watch the road and identify risks, I may ignore the speedo or the mirrors but that is my decision I choose where and when, and has nothing to do with the flow.

The risks you take are completely up to you. Flow or not.

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Katman

9th March 2013, 15:36

So you have completely missed the point as well, the speed is not the goal, smooth is the goal, you are still on the road and still responsible for your own actions.

You can try to talk up the virtues of 'The Zone' all you like. (I do actually know what you're talking about).

I just happen to think there is no value to be gained in promoting it.

Mushu

9th March 2013, 16:11

You can try to talk up the virtues of 'The Zone' all you like. (I do actually know what you're talking about).

I just happen to think there is no value to be gained in promoting it.

Conversely, my way of thinking is that it teaches newer riders (once they're comfortable on their machines and have plenty of traffic experience ) to recognise their limits and how to safely overcome them with practice.

I understand that you have probably seen the effects of when this goes wrong, but there are people who shouldn't be riding, whether they don't have the coordination or the self control, or the ability to read the road. These things can be overcome with practice if somebody recognises it. If it's not picked up these people are destined to crash.

The flow isn't for everyone, some people aren't smart enough to recognise where their comfort zone lies. I wouldn't ride with these people.

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Katman

9th March 2013, 16:16

Conversely, my way of thinking is that it teaches newer riders (once they're comfortable on their machines and have plenty of traffic experience ) to recognise their limits and how to safely overcome them with practice.

New riders are the last people who should be encouraged to search out a mystical 'Zone'.

They have plenty enough things to be concentrating on already.

bosslady

9th March 2013, 16:53

New riders are the last people who should be encouraged to search out a mystical 'Zone'.

They have plenty enough things to be concentrating on already.

I beg to differ. After a couple of wines I'm in the zone.

Oh wait, were talking about riding!

FJRider

9th March 2013, 17:00

So you have completely missed the point as well, the speed is not the goal, smooth is the goal, you are still on the road and still responsible for your own actions.

Any racer will agree that you have to be smooth to be fast no matter what kind of racing they do. So if you are working on being smooth you will tend to bring the speed up but without leaving your comfort zone, as soon as you push past your abilities you lose the flow and must slow down to regain it.

If speed is not the goal ... why do you compare it with a racer .. ???

On a racetrack ... fewer exceptions to the "Zone" theories exist.

No traffic coming the other way.
No camper vans on the wrong (or any other) side.
All the corner entry/exit speeds are known (as are all the braking points)
All the run-off areas are known.
Even the number of people on your "road" are pretty much known. (and of similar ability to yourself)

On the track ... the zone ends when the checkered flag is waved. When does it end on the open road ... when you are ready ... or inside a 50 km/hr zone .. ???

Or ... the first "Oh Shit" moment ... ???

swtfa

9th March 2013, 17:00

I beg to differ. After a couple of wines I'm in the zone.

Oh wait, were talking about riding!

Wine... riding...

Oh - we talking bikes! :cool:

FJRider

9th March 2013, 17:01

New riders are the last people who should be encouraged to search out a mystical 'Zone'.

They have plenty enough things to be concentrating on already.

Like checking their mirrors .. ??? :innocent:

bosslady

9th March 2013, 17:05

Wine... riding...

Oh - we talking bikes! :cool:

riding and wine often go hand in hand but that's another (r18) conversation :lol:

FJRider

9th March 2013, 17:08

I beg to differ. After a couple of wines I'm in the zone.

Oh wait, were talking about riding!

Over the years ... I have spent some time making an effort to reduce the glut in the world wine market :drool: Never while riding though. (I might have spilt some)

It was fun ... although unsuccessful ... :weep:

bosslady

9th March 2013, 17:12

Over the years ... I have spent some time making an effort to reduce the glut in the world wine market :drool: Never while riding though. (I might have spilt some)

It was fun ... although unsuccessful ... :weep:

you must be a shit rider, spill your wine whilst riding? pfft what a newbie :lol:

Ocean1

9th March 2013, 17:14

you must be a shit rider, spill your wine whilst riding? pfft what a newbie :lol:

Camelback. :cool:

Just gota crush the ice really small.

FJRider

9th March 2013, 17:28

you must be a shit rider, spill your wine whilst riding? pfft what a newbie :lol:

Less risk of spilling if you hold the glass with both hands ... :cool:

Oh ... we were still talking about motorcycling ... weren't we ... :pinch:

Mushu

9th March 2013, 18:24

If speed is not the goal ... why do you compare it with a racer .. ???

On a racetrack ... fewer exceptions to the "Zone" theories exist.

No traffic coming the other way.
No camper vans on the wrong (or any other) side.
All the corner entry/exit speeds are known (as are all the braking points)
All the run-off areas are known.
Even the number of people on your "road" are pretty much known. (and of similar ability to yourself)

On the track ... the zone ends when the checkered flag is waved. When does it end on the open road ... when you are ready ... or inside a 50 km/hr zone .. ???

Or ... the first "Oh Shit" moment ... ???

I mention racing because of the 'smooth is fast' idea to illustrate that by becoming smoother you are actually getting better and your comfortable speed gets a little higher. As said, the attention doesn't disappear you still have to look for cars, road defects, wayward animals etc..

If you are doing the flow on the race track, what are you, the pace car? When you're on the track you can push, and use all of your brakes and all your revs (while riding the flow my bike almost never revs over 10000). Often those that do it say they never use the brakes if you can race without brakes and not get lapped you should be riding motoGP.

As I said in my earlier post, you are responsible for what you do on the road, most of us are quite comfortable cruising at 200 on a straight road, and you need to make the decision on what is an appropriate speed.

As far as a new rider doing the flow what's your definition of a new rider, how many times do you have to get on a bike to be considered "not new" how many hours saddle time, how many kays, does all of it need to be on the road, is trail riding worth anything, or track time.... I said newer, ie someone who a reasonable level of skill to be riding difficult roads.

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Mom

9th March 2013, 18:54

most of us are quite comfortable cruising at 200 on a straight road,

Pardon me? Please take me out of your generalisation of "MOST OF US" I can tell you for free there are LOTS of us out here that are NOT comfortable cruising at 200 anywhere.

:tugger:

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Does using Tapatalk via XT535 :tugger: make your penis bigger like you think your riding does?

Karl08

9th March 2013, 19:06

Cruising at 200 seems like an oxymoron....bit like ending a thread on KB

MSTRS

9th March 2013, 19:15

This is the thread...
The thread that never ends....
It just goes on...
And on and on ...
My friends...
This thread that never ends...

BTW - count me out of the 200 Cruising Club too. My speedo is in MPH...

And another thing. Someone mentioned 'reacting' in reference to flow or zone. Rubbish. If you are reacting on a motorcycle, you are nowhere near a competent rider in or out of any zone.

yungatart

9th March 2013, 19:15

most of us are quite comfortable cruising at 200 on a straight road,

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Most? Cruising? At 200 k? On the road?
You are a deluded fool if you think that.
That is an insane speed on a public road.

Most of the guys I knew who cruised at those speeds on the road are dead just now.

You hurt any of my friends and family, and I promise you, I will hunt you down and make whatever life you have left not worth living! Grow up and take it to the track...the world doesn't need anymore 'heroes' like you.

Deano

9th March 2013, 19:19

Holy bejeeeebus. Thank fuck for Thursday nights :killingme

Katman

9th March 2013, 19:25

Holy bejeeeebus. Thank fuck for Thursday nights :killingme

Yeah, roadside carnage is just collateral damage for you guys, ain't it?

=cJ=

9th March 2013, 19:34

Funny thing I've noticed, the really quick guys never mention how fast they are...

FJRider

9th March 2013, 19:38

As said, the attention doesn't disappear you still have to look for cars, road defects, wayward animals etc..

You have to ... but if you don't even notice your own speedo. You wont see a sheep coming onto the road 20 metres to the front of you ...

If you are doing the flow on the race track, what are you, the pace car? When you're on the track you can push, and use all of your brakes and all your revs (while riding the flow my bike almost never revs over 10000). Often those that do it say they never use the brakes if you can race without brakes and not get lapped you should be riding motoGP.

The open road is not a racetrack (personal or public). And little comparison can be made between the two.
When did brakes come into the "zone" conversation .. ???

As I said in my earlier post, you are responsible for what you do on the road, most of us are quite comfortable cruising at 200 on a straight road, and you need to make the decision on what is an appropriate speed.

It's a poor example of a motorcyclist ... that relies on 200 km/hr capable straight roads to get their kicks.
I can do that on a 20 year old bike ... but thats not motorcycling as I know it ...

As far as a new rider doing the flow what's your definition of a new rider, how many times do you have to get on a bike to be considered "not new" how many hours saddle time, how many kays, does all of it need to be on the road, is trail riding worth anything, or track time.... I said newer, ie someone who a reasonable level of skill to be riding difficult roads.

Being the free country that it is ... you CAN do it all on an L plate. The size of your gonads has little to do with it. No matter how long you've been doing it ... no matter how skilled you are at riding ... no matter how lucky you are to have/find a place to do it ... ONE mistake (and not always your mistake) and you are the subject of a small column on page three. And (maybe) the subject of a "Rider Down" thread on KB.

If you want that ... go for your life ... :laugh:

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FJRider

9th March 2013, 19:40

Yeah, roadside carnage is just collateral damage for you guys, ain't it?

If they can keep up ...

slofox

9th March 2013, 19:42

Funny thing I've noticed, the really quick guys never mention how fast they are...

Doesn't pay to advertise breaches of the regs, eh.

GrayWolf

9th March 2013, 19:46

You can try to talk up the virtues of 'The Zone' all you like. (I do actually know what you're talking about).

I just happen to think there is no value to be gained in promoting it.

I would suggest you know shit about Csitzenmihalya's theory of 'Flow'... your constant response (and others) is focussed on SPEED... and focus ONLY on what you are doing, the skill for riding a bike is the whole package, internal and external awareness, as well as the skill actual of physically riding.
the idea of a state of flow, is when skill is equal to the challenge.... a state of timelessness, loss of 'self' is achieved. Flow can be found at work, See Kelly's theory on work .... pure work, to work for pleasure (restoring an old motorcycle is work for pleasure) This very work can induce a state of flow,,, how often have you been working in the garage and what seems minutes has been a few hours? State of flow.

This idea of the 'Zone' as so many motorcyclists perceive it, Yourself included is incorrect. Speed is NOT the object... Flow could be riding a low power bike like a Royal Enfield 500 Bullet through a series of tight twisty bends,,, certainly not fast, but if you are smooth, seemingly effortless through the bends, but having to think, be aware and mentally alert the whole time but not anxious or stressed, Challenge (the road itself) is equal to the skill you have as a rider...THAT is the state of flow as theorised. Riding balls out fast, is generally overconfidence above skill in most riders...

Deano

9th March 2013, 19:47

Yeah, roadside carnage is just collateral damage for you guys, ain't it?

Once again you know fuck all. What is this roadside carnage you speak of ?

Have another beer and ride home. :nya:

Collateral damage would be you calling me the names you do to my face, instead of behind the safety of your keyboard.

Ocean1

9th March 2013, 19:54

Once again you know fuck all.

You do him a disservice, dude.

He never actually stopped knowing fuck all.

It's sorta his specialty, y'know?

Katman

9th March 2013, 19:56

I would suggest you know shit about Chitzenmihalya's theory of 'Flow'...

Chitzenwhatsit's theory of 'Flow' doesn't readily have any serious reality in motorcycling.

There's more liklihood of his theory being seen as some sort of Invincibility Cloak rather than it producing safer riders.

Save it for the track.

Kickaha

9th March 2013, 19:57

That is an insane speed on a public road.

Most of the guys I knew who cruised at those speeds on the road are dead just now.

Depends entirely on what road and what level of traffic

We used to travel at 160kmh + a lot of the time, none of us died and the only major accident was at less than 80kmh when a van cut a corner into us

GrayWolf

9th March 2013, 20:09

Katman's knowledge of the theory of 'Flow' doesn't readily have any serious reality in motorcycling.

I perceive the theory being seen as some sort of Invincibility Cloak rather than it producing safer riders.

Save it for the track. <<<< fixed it for you

Once again you simply display a knowledge of nothing K'man, the flow theory is a Psychological 'Wellness' theory, it could more readily be applied or used by instructors/mentors.. Understanding the state of arousal for a beginner is more likely to be anxiety and quite simple challenges will be sufficient to their skill level is hardly a 'worthless tool', is it? But then I bow to your superior knowledge on these subjects, I just wish I'd had your amazing knowledge to learn from at University.

Katman

9th March 2013, 20:11

<<<< fixed it for you

Once again you simply display a knowledge of nothing K'man, the flow theory is a Psychological 'Wellness' theory, it could more readily be applied or used by instructors/mentors.. Understanding the state of arousal for a beginner is more likely to be anxiety and quite simple challenges will be sufficient to their skill level is hardly a 'worthless tool', is it? But then I bow to your superior knowledge on these subjects, I just wish I'd had your amazing knowledge to learn from at University.

Anyhow, back to post #206.

sugilite

9th March 2013, 20:34

My opinion on these "zones", is they are near indefinable, unique to each person and unteachable. For the most part, I don't often find myself in my zone. There is however one road I like to do where it happens more often than not, my old favorite the Akatarawas. Yes, the road many love to hate as it is a insanely tight and winding two way road, that is for the most part is only one lane wide. So for many, every time they come upon a car, it is a surprise, and/or an "oh shit" moment. I've done that road well over 200 times. When I go into my zone, I go into some sort of an altered state of consciousness. This may surprise some, but I become totally intuitively reactionary, and I assure these surprised people that I react much faster and smoother than if I were consciously watching and trying to actively anticipate hazards. Another oddity is, after I come out the other side of that road, I often cannot remember doing entire sections of it. Anyone that knows the Akatarawas will understand, you don't get through it over 200 times unscathed just by blind luck. Yet, I'd never attempt to teach that technique for the simple reason, it would be impossible, not to mention irresponsible and dangerous to even try to do so.
I should mention that I'm ridiculously analytical learning new techniques (re-playing them time and time again through my mind after each ride) and I constantly work on them until perfected and they become 2nd nature. I believe that is the only reason I can call on these techniques while I'm in my "zone". I do not actively attempt to get into this zone, it is just something that either happens, or does not, (and only once ever on the race track funnily enough). So my post goes against many others definition of what this zone is, and where it is most likely to occur. Which brings me back to my first sentence. "My opinion on these zones, is they are near indefinable, unique to each person and unteachable".

Katman

9th March 2013, 20:43

"My opinion on these zones, is they are near indefinable, unique to each person and unteachable".

Amen.

And furthermore, trying to teach it creates way more danger than it offers to avoid.

sugilite

9th March 2013, 20:45

And furthermore, trying to teach it creates way more danger than it offers to avoid.

Yes, I 100% agree.

Katman

9th March 2013, 21:02

Collateral damage would be you calling me the names you do to my face, instead of behind the safety of your keyboard.

Stop embarassing yourself Deano.

Deano

9th March 2013, 21:15

Stop embarassing yourself Deano.

You have no form. :nya::tugger::zzzz:

FJRider

9th March 2013, 22:19

Amen.

And furthermore, trying to teach it creates way more danger than it offers to avoid.

And what about the newbie ... that has heard talk of "the zone" ... and tries to emulate it ... :scratch:

Mushu

9th March 2013, 22:58

GrayWolf and suglite seem to get it pretty well, and but I think you have combined it with the hypnotism effect you get while doing a repetitive task ( this is well documented, very common and not nearly as dangerous as it sounds)

As far as my 200k comment that was jumped on by a handful of people, I was pointing out that for a decent bike 200k is nothing and quite comfortable. Every time you hit a straight it's only your own self control that keeps you at or near the speed limit. The flow isn't about squeezing every inch of performance out of your machine (that is what a race track is for).

To the guy who wants to know what the flow has to do with brakes, it's about anticipating and staying smooth, if you anticipate a corner you limit acceleration or you back off so you can approach that corner at an appropriate speed. Then you roll on the throttle, tip it into the corner and smile cos its fun, having not used the brakes at all

Also the flow makes the ride more exciting thus keeping a higher level of concentration, I read some stats not long ago that said that vehicles are actually more likely to have accidents on the roads that have been made 'safer' because the drivers become complacent. There's nothing like the prospect of imminent death to keep people concentrating.

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Mushu

9th March 2013, 23:07

And what about the newbie ... that has heard talk of "the zone" ... and tries to emulate it ... :scratch:

Thank you

Or what about the guy that bought a bike so he can push his limits and be a squid, probably without a licence at all, he may enjoy the flow and back off a bit. There are plenty of them out there. You can whine about that all you want, it's not going to stop those who do it.

And yes, I write that Tapatalk shit at the bottom of every post myself to be a cool guy, I don't even have a cell phone

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Mushu

10th March 2013, 01:00

You have to ... but if you don't even notice your own speedo. You wont see a sheep coming onto the road 20 metres to the front of you ....

don't know about you but I tend to watch the road and just glance at the speedo, and I'm not the only one, ever driven a car with HUD, makes watching your instruments far easier

The open road is not a racetrack (personal or public). And little comparison can be made between the two.
When did brakes come into the "zone" conversation .. ???

covered this in the last post

It's a poor example of a motorcyclist ... that relies on 200 km/hr capable straight roads to get their kicks.
I can do that on a 20 year old bike ... but thats not motorcycling as I know it ...

When did I ever say I do it all the time or that it's the part of riding I enjoy. Straight lines aren't fun at any speed

Being the free country that it is ... you CAN do it all on an L plate. The size of your gonads has little to do with it. No matter how long you've been doing it ... no matter how skilled you are at riding ... no matter how lucky you are to have/find a place to do it ... ONE mistake (and not always your mistake) and you are the subject of a small column on page three. And (maybe) the subject of a "Rider Down" thread on KB.

This is just part of riding. Up the pace and up the danger.
Would you like me to keep it in first (even in first gear I can go fast enough to get done speeding in town)

If you want that ... go for your life ... :laugh:

Well if my options are live forever surrounded in bubble wrap, or go out in a ball of flaming glory, I'll take option 2 every time. But this is the real world so you don't have sit on a bubble wrap cushion in a padded room (but you can if you want) and I don't have to die to enjoy a ride.

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Also I reread my earlier post and understand why I was flamed, what I meant was physically comfortable with travelling at 200 mentally it's another story obviously I wouldn't have survived this long if I were doing those kinds of speeds whenever I get on the bike. Would I do it? I have and I will again (when I feel conditions are acceptable to me and I'll wear the consequences)

How many people on this biker forum can honestly say they have never exceeded 100ks on the road....... Katman???

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