Speed kills! Except it doesn't

[Phil.T.Tipp]

Open speed limits for Territory?

Government reviews decision to lower speed limits after road toll didn't drop significantly.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/open-speed-limits-for-territory-20130508-2j6zy.html

Ze Germans know all about this.

Discuss.

[Mental Trousers]

Speed is an amplifier. Make a mistake at 70kph and often the driver doesn't even realize they made a mistake. Make the same mistake at 120kph and it's a totally different ball game.

[Phil.T.Tipp]

Speed is an amplifier. Make a mistake at 70kph and often the driver doesn't even realize they made a mistake. Make the same mistake at 120kph and it's a totally different ball game.

However, the stats don't back your position up. Clicky on the article again.

Hmmmm.

[p.dath]

Wow, great article, and so close to home.

[superjackal]

Open speed limits for Territory?

Government reviews decision to lower speed limits after road toll didn't drop significantly.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/open-speed-limits-for-territory-20130508-2j6zy.html

Ze Germans know all about this.

Discuss.

Completed an AA survey recently and it asked what the highest speed I'd be comfortable travelling on NZ roads would be, 250kph was the highest you could enter. Given road conditions I don't think we should have a limit at all. But, I'd be happy with blanket 50kph in surburban/high density areas.

Imagine if you could zip between Auckland and Wellington in 3 hours...

From my experience on the autobahns most cars travel about 140kph. It's only the performance machines that go higher. For the record, 162mph in an '84 911 was my highest. Felt greeeeeeaaaat. :headbang:

[caspernz]

Ze main point of difference is that in NZ you can still obtain ze drivers licence from ze Weetbix packet (in practical terms)...whereas the Germanic one requires serious study and proof of ability to operate ze motorised vehicle, not to mention the cost of lessons etc.

And as for the Autobahn being a free for all is pure myth. Very few sections of the Autobahn are unlimited nowadays.

[Mental Trousers]

However, the stats don't back your position up. Clicky on the article again.

Hmmmm.

You must be reading a different article to me.

[Scuba_Steve]

From my experience on the autobahns most cars travel about 140kph.


And that's just it, without the speed scam people will actually self regulate pretty well, 80% will travel around the same speed (a safe comfortable one) & the roads would be much safer for it.

[Phil.T.Tipp]

Ze main point of difference is that in NZ you can still obtain ze drivers licence from ze Weetbix packet (in practical terms)...whereas the Germanic one requires serious study and proof of ability to operate ze motorised vehicle, not to mention the cost of lessons etc.

And as for the Autobahn being a free for all is pure myth. Very few sections of the Autobahn are unlimited nowadays.

Ja correct, but a leeetle incorrect also.

Wiki quote: "The German autobahns are famous for being among the few public roads in the world without blanket speed limits for cars and motorbikes.

Speed limits do apply at junctions and other danger points like sections under construction or in need of repair. Speed limits at non-construction sites are generally between 100 km/h and 130 km/h; construction sites usually have a speed limit of 80 km/h but may be as low as 60 km/h or, in very rare cases, 40 km/h. Certain stretches have lower speed limits used in cases of wet lanes. Some areas have a speed limit of 120 km/h in order to reduce noise pollution during overnight hours (usually 10pm – 6am) or because of increased traffic during daytime (6am – 8pm)

Some limits were imposed to reduce pollution and noise. Limits can also be temporarily put into place through dynamic traffic guidance systems that display the according traffic signs. On all Autobahns the advisory speed limit is 130 km/h, referred to in German as the Richtgeschwindigkeit; this speed is not binding but being involved in an accident driving at higher speeds can lead to the driver being deemed at least partially responsible due to "increased operating danger" (Erhöhte Betriebsgefahr). Studies showed that the average speed on autobahns without speed limits is about 140 km/h.[14] On average, more than an eighth of the total length of the German autobahn network has no speed limit at all, about one third has a permanent limit, and the remaining parts have a temporary or conditional limit."

You are absolutely correct re ze German driver training, awareness and behaviour. Even in my humble experience, when a driver in Lane 1 - not the 'Fast' or 'Overtaking' lane - sees another vehicle closing on his 6 o'clock apace, he/she will indicate and move over to allow the faster vehicle passage, as it is most logical and sensible to do. All very German.

Can you imagine the caged monkeys, with the free-with-a-Weetabix licences in this country adhering to the general principles of watch-the-fuck-out and don't-be-a-dick?

Chanceless mein freund.

[Phil.T.Tipp]

You must be reading a different article to me.

Suit yerself.

[oneofsix]

I didn't see anything about speed being a magnifier in that article. I can agree with the comment that lower limits increase fatigue, you notice when you have been driving in an 100k area and then for no noticeable reason (the road is just as boring, no schools crossroads etc) the limit drops and you feel fatigued. I saw as much biased opinion from some of the Profs in their as occurs on KB, seems just because they put Prof in front of their name you are meant to accept their opinion even though they don't back it up with facts.

Mankind has not yet been able to reach speeds that kill but we have past the speed of sound and lived to tell the tale.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I didn't see anything about speed being a magnifier in that article. I can agree with the comment that lower limits increase fatigue, you notice when you have been driving in an 100k area and then for no noticeable reason (the road is just as boring, no schools crossroads etc) the limit drops and you feel fatigued. I saw as much biased opinion from some of the Profs in their as occurs on KB, seems just because they put Prof in front of their name you are meant to accept their opinion even though they don't back it up with facts.

Mankind has not yet been able to reach speeds that kill but we have past the speed of sound and lived to tell the tale.

I want to be the first to exceed the speed of light. That'd be cool.

[oneofsix]

I want to be the first to exceed the speed of light. That'd be cool.

you could then be the one to see if Albert was right, of course if he was you will also be the first to be killed by speed. :laugh: presuming having your atoms spread out would kind of kill you. :weird:

[FJRider]

... Make the same mistake at 120kph and it's a totally different ball game.

But the good news is ... the higher the speed ... the less time you have to worry about what the end result of that mistake will be.

[FJRider]

Mankind has not yet been able to reach speeds that kill but we have past the speed of sound and lived to tell the tale.

Speeding doesn't kill you ....

It's the manner in which you stop that's the critical factor in your longevity ...

[Danzano]

The autobahn in Germany is also well maintained unlike the majority of sh1 it's getting better but not quite up to spec yet

I think most people would be ok with it but the minority would wreck it for the majority

Have they ever considered a test run ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Usarka]

I want to be the first to exceed the speed of light. That'd be cool.

There would be a problem with causality.

Quite fitting really.

[oneofsix]

The autobahn in Germany is also well maintained unlike the majority of sh1 it's getting better but not quite up to spec yet

I think most people would be ok with it but the minority would wreck it for the majority

Have they ever considered a test run ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

only if you police the majority based on the minority otherwise Mr Darwin will take care of things, or they learn to judge and drive to the conditions rather quickly.

[HenryDorsetCase]

you could then be the one to see if Albert was right, of course if he was you will also be the first to be killed by speed. :laugh: presuming having your atoms spread out would kind of kill you. :weird:

the closer I approach the speed of light, the more my mass increases, so the more pies I can eat.

[Voltaire]

Amusing anyone could even compare driving experience of Germany with here.....Portugal or Turkey is nearer to NZ.

[Banditbandit]

you could then be the one to see Albert

Yeah .. 'cause you would be where he is ...

[Banditbandit]

only if you police the majority based on the minority otherwise Mr Darwin will take care of things, or they learn to judge and drive to the conditions rather quickly.


See ... I have no prolem with my ability to reach speeds of 250klicks .. it's the shithead coming the other way that I worry about .. His ability to handle a vehicle at anything over walking pace is always in question ...


Ze main point of difference is that in NZ you can still obtain ze drivers licence from ze Weetbix packet (in practical terms)...whereas the Germanic one requires serious study and proof of ability to operate ze motorised vehicle, not to mention the cost of lessons etc.

And as for the Autobahn being a free for all is pure myth. Very few sections of the Autobahn are unlimited nowadays.

And then you get this on the autobahn .. 53 cars involved and several dead ... you never get 53-car pileups in GodZone .. and you all think the autobahn with high or no speed limits is a good idea ????

See .. it's you dumb fucks on the road that give me the shits ..


<img src="http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-111119-autobahn-cannon.photoblog900.jpg" width="400px"/>

[thepom]

Then stay off the road dipshit :bleh:

[Banditbandit]

Then stay off the road dipshit :bleh:

Fuck No ... it's too much fun .... I just watch other people like a Hawk ... never know when one of them is going to fuck up ...

[FJRider]

The autobahn in Germany is also well maintained unlike the majority of sh1 it's getting better but not quite up to spec yet

I think most people would be ok with it but the minority would wreck it for the majority

Have they ever considered a test run ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some tests done in Japan ...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/8448909/Charges-loom-over-3-5m-supercars-pileup

[Phil.T.Tipp]

Amusing anyone could even compare driving experience of Germany with here.....Portugal or Turkey is nearer to NZ.

Tu as raison Monsieur Voltaire!

From memory, even the donkey/taxi/kamikazi jhundi truck drivers in Addis Ababa and Cairo only come a close second to the unusually high rate of cack-handed, squinting mong-osity displayed by the majority of raging cage-bound monkeys on the road in NZ.

Don't get me started on the fucking potholed crazy paving which passes for dual carriageway in the North Island <_<

[HenryDorsetCase]

fuck no ... It's too much fun .... I just watch other people like a hawk ... Never know when one of them is going to fuck up ...

in ten years all city traffic will be entirely computer controlled like in minority report so there will be no accidents.

[Blackbird]

From memory, even the donkey/taxi/kamikazi jhundi truck drivers in Addis Ababa and Cairo only come a close second to the unusually high rate of cack-handed, squinting mong-osity displayed by the majority of raging cage-bound monkeys on the road in NZ.

Not to mention the motorcycle riders who display similar characteristics to the cage drivers you mention :shifty:

[Voltaire]

in ten years all city traffic will be entirely computer controlled like in minority report so there will be no accidents.

I was waiting for my Jetsons ( yes I am old) car and robot in 2000 and they never showed up.:laugh:

[Akzle]

i like going fast.

that is all.

[Berries]

Have they ever considered a test run ?
Saturday afternoons in Central come close.

[swbarnett]

Can you imagine the caged monkeys, with the free-with-a-Weetabix licences in this country adhering to the general principles of watch-the-fuck-out and don't-be-a-dick?
Most certainly.

After a bed-in period of total bedlam most people will wise up. The others will have already removed themselves from the road (either fatally or in favour of other forms of transport).

Remember: Expect idiots, get idiots.

[Ocean1]

You must be reading a different article to me.

The one I read said that introducing speed limits had increased NT accident rates, it compared NT to the rest of Au, where they'd reduced.

That's historically been the case pretty much every time such changes have been made.

But faced with simple facts there'll always be people who don't like the logical implication, and manage to find facts to support their own opinion.

Nowt wrong with that, it's human.

[Mental Trousers]

The one I read said that introducing speed limits had increased NT accident rates, it compared NT to the rest of Au, where they'd reduced.

That's what I read too.

[carburator]

id have to dig through the hd to find the dash cam footage of dickheads having near misses passing the trucks in the NT..

its not the speed that kills, its the people who cannot drive to the conditon's of the road and also the condition of there
vehicle..

[Berries]

We all know speed doesn't kill. I am surprised people don't accept the simple physics put up my Mr Trousers though that the faster you go the quicker things happen if something does go wrong.

Anyway, ten bucks says the NT government don't go back and lift the speed limits again.

[Ocean1]

We all know speed doesn't kill. I am surprised people don't accept the simple physics put up my Mr Trousers though that the faster you go the quicker things happen if something does go wrong.

Haven't seen anyone deny it.

Neither have I seen anyone deny that in most cases fewer accidents occur where there's either no speed limits or where the limits are higher.

So, which is the stronger juju, given that there's also fewer fatalities where there's more liberal speed compliance?


Anyway, ten bucks says the NT government don't go back and lift the speed limits again.

Which implies central and local govt might ignore pertinent data when setting policy. Really? :shit:

[swbarnett]

We all know speed doesn't kill. I am surprised people don't accept the simple physics put up my Mr Trousers though that the faster you go the quicker things happen if something does go wrong.
Only given the exact same vehicle and driver. A well maintained vehicle operated in a competant manner is just as safer at higher speeds than an old dunger operated by a distracted moron.

[Akzle]

Only given the exact same vehicle and driver. A well maintained vehicle operated in a competant manner is just as safer at higher speeds than an old dunger operated by a distracted moron.

unfortunately for your thesis: it's usually distracted morons in well maintained vehicles and competent drivers in old dungers....

[swbarnett]

unfortunately for your thesis: it's usually distracted morons in well maintained vehicles and competent drivers in old dungers....
While that may be (although I've not seen any evidence of that relationship), I'm just trying to illustrate that speed is only one of a miriad of factors and there is no merit in singling it out for attention.

[Berries]

Neither have I seen anyone deny that in most cases fewer accidents occur where there's either no speed limits or where the limits are higher.

So, which is the stronger juju, given that there's also fewer fatalities where there's more liberal speed compliance?
If you threw driving standards in to that mix I'd agree with you. No speed limits, higher limits or liberal compliance is fine if supported by decent driving standards on decent roads. If you take NZ as an example, I don't think we have the decent roads, let alone decent drivers, to lift the speed limit too far. More like India than any European country I've been to.

[Big Dave]

i like going fast.

that is all.

I like Pina coladas and walks in the rain.

[jonbuoy]

I don't think it's rocket science that hitting an object at 80kph is going to hurt less than hitting an object at 120 kph. The trick is to not hit anything in the first place. Average dual carriageway speed here is about 130 kph and when they do have crashes they are pretty bad.

[Ocean1]

If you threw driving standards in to that mix I'd agree with you. No speed limits, higher limits or liberal compliance is fine if supported by decent driving standards on decent roads. If you take NZ as an example, I don't think we have the decent roads, let alone decent drivers, to lift the speed limit too far. More like India than any European country I've been to.

It wasn't an opinion, dude, it's verifiable fact. Wherever speed restrictions are introduced or made more restrictive accidents increase and vice versa. If that were the case in just a coule of instances I'd agree that NZ's driving standards might be a factor, but the data's not just from supposedly highly skilled countries.

The data in question is from NT. Have you driven much in Aussie? their driving is on par with NZ, at best. In WA and NT it's worse. Their vehicle fleet is similar to ours, culture is similar, in short there's no aberant variable that might explain why higher limits are less dangerous for them but would be more so for us.

I know it's not intuitively obvious, and officialdom of all sorts are certainly not tripping over each other in shaping transport policy accordingly, but it's true nonetheless.

The NZ drivers are crap thing... is it fact or fiction, do you think? If true what causes it?

[oneofsix]

The NZ drivers are crap thing... is it fact or fiction, do you think? If true what causes it?

Do you really want to open that can of worms? Too late you asked the question and I'l stir the pot. NZ drivers are not crap. They are no worse than any other countries drivers and sadly no better. We have different cultural drivers to the likes of the Germans and Scandinavians etc which makes the driving different. I have seen video of a german pedestrian in the middle of the night with no traffic around waiting on the crossing light to change, this isn't due to their road sense or any such crap but more their culture of obeying TPTB, too many Irish, Scots and maori descendents in NZ for that to ever work here. We don't have the traffic volumes to keep us in line, we can see that gap ahead and know there is a slow ignorant prick holding us up, we know if we can just get past them we will have a smooth trip to the next latte.

As to the much spoken of driver training in Germany, it works because they obey, in NZ, as at present, we would pay lip service until we past and then go back to changeling the rule of authority and being just as annoyed by the prick that speeds up in the passing land and slows down after, whereas again the Germans clear the way for faster traffic.

[Banditbandit]

I like Pina coladas and walks in the rain.

Drinking sickly sweet shit and getting wet ... not my idea of fun .. just sayin' ...

[caspernz]

Ja correct, but a leeetle incorrect also.

Wiki quote: "The German autobahns are famous for being among the few public roads in the world without blanket speed limits for cars and motorbikes.


Can you imagine the caged monkeys, with the free-with-a-Weetabix licences in this country adhering to the general principles of watch-the-fuck-out and don't-be-a-dick?

Chanceless mein freund.

Some of us don't need wikipedia...we can make our own mind up based on what we experience. The average European driver is competent and co-operative in making traffic flow...something which the majority of NZ drivers are shall we say less than skilled at?

As for speed limits, yes your wikipedia quote is in the ballpark, but for the most part during periods most traffic travels you'll find few sections where hammer down is de rigeur...:Police:

[red mermaid]

I always thought France was in Europe, and they have a reputation for been rude and arrogant drivers.


Some of us don't need wikipedia...we can make our own mind up based on what we experience. The average European driver is competent and co-operative in making traffic flow...something which the majority of NZ drivers are shall we say less than skilled at?

As for speed limits, yes your wikipedia quote is in the ballpark, but for the most part during periods most traffic travels you'll find few sections where hammer down is de rigeur...:Police:

[caspernz]

I always thought France was in Europe, and they have a reputation for been rude and arrogant drivers.

Meh, I'll still take the average frog over the average kiwi behind the wheel, at least that's been my personal experience. Paris is a bit hectic, but still easier than Auckland :eek::laugh:

[Swoop]

I like Pina coladas and walks in the rain.

I guess that explains why cocktails have those little umbrellas then?

[Erelyes]

Some of us don't need wikipedia...we can make our own mind up based on what we experience. The average European driver is competent and co-operative in making traffic flow...something which the majority of NZ drivers are shall we say less than skilled at?

As for speed limits, yes your wikipedia quote is in the ballpark, but for the most part during periods most traffic travels you'll find few sections where hammer down is de rigeur...:Police:

I have seen first-hand an Italian double-park (no hazard lights), go into the shop, get two slices of pizza and a large (650ml?) Peroni, down the lot in five minutes, then be on his merry way with full DILLIGAF mode engaged. This didn't exactly stick out like a sore thumb either, driving wise.

The 'average' European driver is like taking the average of twenty numbers, each of which range randomly from 1 to 100.

[swbarnett]

Some of us don't need wikipedia...we can make our own mind up based on what we experience. The average European driver is competent and co-operative in making traffic flow...something which the majority of NZ drivers are shall we say less than skilled at?
And why is that? Well, I have a theory: NZ's traffic simply isn't dense enough yet for people to realise that not helping the general traffic flow is self-deprecating.

Just look at what happens to Auckland rush-hour when the traffic lights are out; interesctions work better with a lot more courtesy than they ever do when under artificial control.

[Scuba_Steve]

The biggest prob with NZ drivers is the NZTA/Govt...
We've got a licencing system where being able to drive is optional
They've flooded the roads with pretty lights, barriers & "guide lines" why think when the road will tell you what to do?
And on-top of all else we've got cars that all but drive themselves.

NZers can drive if required, just hit a backroad you'll start to see people who pull over to let faster vehicles past, will drive to conditions, will flow very well despite lack of markings, lights, signs telling them what to do.

[scumdog]

NZ drivers are not crap. They are no worse than any other countries drivers and sadly no better....As to the much spoken of driver training in Germany, it works because they obey, in NZ, as at present, we would pay lip service until we past and then go back to changeling the rule of authority

Hence why Kiwis ARE crap drivers.

No idea of impending doom they sail down the road with little regard to what is happening around them and no defensive techniques in mind - then seem surprised when their hopeless driving 'skills' turn pear-shaped and they end up in mess of tangled bodies and panels...

[willytheekid]

The biggest prob with NZ drivers is the NZTA/Govt...
We've got a licencing system where being able to drive is optional
They've flooded the roads with pretty lights, barriers & "guide lines" why think when the road will tell you what to do?
And on-top of all else we've got cars that all but drive themselves.

NZers can drive if required, just hit a backroad you'll start to see people who pull over to let faster vehicles past, will drive to conditions, will flow very well despite lack of markings, lights, signs telling them what to do.

So much +1 :niceone:

Wanna improve Kiwi drivers?...its actually reallly easy!

...introduce "real" driver license testing and real punishments for drunk drivers and the like.(driving is NOT a right!)

But theres not much profit to be made in having a nation of competant drivers <_<....besides, its so much easier to pay a monkey sweet fuck all, to go out and just put up a lowered speed sign!, than to actually address the issue at its source!...and once again, SO much more profitable!:motu:

..."all about public safety!"...pffft please!

ps:...as for the BS speed limits!, we seem to be the ONLY country in the developed world that are REDUCING speed limits instead of increasing them!, hence...4k over etc, sure as SHIT aint speeding!, or dangerous!, its just another BS! reason to rip the average Kiwi off and a blantant effort to reduce traffic congestion for the Higher earners and there "holiday boating trips", through a campaign of fear, bullying and intimidation!...A safety campaign!.....pffft!:tugger:...what ever!

[cheshirecat]

Meh, I'll still take the average frog over the average kiwi behind the wheel, at least that's been my personal experience. Paris is a bit hectic, but still easier than Auckland :eek::laugh:
Same - really enjoyed riding in France though Arc D'Triomphe required a tail gunner.

Was seen off once by two nuns in a 2CV, their hats sticking up through the sun roof. I was riding a CB750 all tricked out Koni's, SW's etc. It was a narrow cambered farm lane, pot holes etc and I couldn't stay with them especially when they took a 90 degree corner at 40kph! Should have gone and let them take my confession.

[bluninja]

Same - really enjoyed riding in France though Arc D'Triomphe required a tail gunner.


Should try going round it on a bicycle....a real adrenaline rush....but no matter how manic they drive they somehow make space for cyclists.

[Voltaire]

On the up side Kiwis don't use the horn constantly, I was in Shanghai a few years back and our driver was on the horn and headlight flasher the whole time....as was everybody else.

[FJRider]

On the up side Kiwis don't use the horn constantly, I was in Shanghai a few years back and our driver was on the horn and headlight flasher the whole time....as was everybody else.

But they don't use their indicators either .... :laugh:

[rastuscat]

The NZ drivers are crap thing... is it fact or fiction, do you think? If true what causes it?

Just a couple of observations.

Folk frequently want to be allowed to go faster. This claim is made shortly after the observation that the standard of driving in NZ is poor.

So, poor drivers going faster. Good idea.

[rastuscat]

ps:...as for the BS speed limits!, we seem to be the ONLY country in the developed world that are REDUCING speed limits instead of increasing them!, hence...4k over etc, sure as SHIT aint speeding!, or dangerous!, its just another BS! reason to rip the average Kiwi off and a blantant effort to reduce traffic congestion for the Higher earners and there "holiday boating trips", through a campaign of fear, bullying and intimidation!...A safety campaign!.....pffft!:tugger:...what ever!

Come on Wheelie. Say what you really mean.

[Ocean1]

Folk frequently want to be allowed to go faster.

So, given that observed results from local speed limit changes indicate that it's no more dangerous why stop them?


This claim is made shortly after the observation that the standard of driving in NZ is poor.

Common enough to hear both from the same person.

What they really mean is that they think it's OK for them to drive at whatever speed they feel is safe, but that everyone else is an inferior driver/rider and needs to be rigidly constrained by rules.

Spot the problem?


So, poor drivers going faster. Good idea.

Outside of a couple of empirical observations nobody's yet demonstrated that NZ drivers are better or worse than the offshore version. I don't actually think it's possible to compare, any actual numbers are going to be so obscured by topographical, cultural and a thousand otheral’s that you’ll never get a sensible comparison.

Given that from an evolutionary point of view we’re significantly similar to every other driving nation, and from my own overseas driving experiences I’ll stick with "average". In fact I’ll refine that, I think most adult Kiwis are technically more competent than average, but less patient. Both possibly caused by the same pervasive local geologically driven road conditions.

[Swoop]

On the up side Kiwis don't use the horn constantly
That is currently on my list.
I happily crank up the airhorns whenever needed.

[scumdog]

What they really mean is that they think it's OK for them to drive at whatever speed they feel is safe, but that everyone else is an inferior driver/rider and needs to be rigidly constrained by rules.

Spot the problem?.

Yep, and so quick to dob-in any other passing driver for being at fault:

Many a time I've stopped somebody who was 'exceeding the speed limit' who thereupon points to passing cars at random saying "I bet he's speeding too/is drunk/is not wearing his seatbeltm - so why don't you stop him"?

[Voltaire]

That is currently on my list.
I happily crank up the airhorns whenever needed.

Waste of time, most of the recipients of said horn blast are from rice republics, where motorcycles are for the poor.

[rastuscat]

Yep, and so quick to dob-in any other passing driver for being at fault:

Many a time I've stopped somebody who was 'exceeding the speed limit' who thereupon points to passing cars at random saying "I bet he's speeding too/is drunk/is not wearing his seatbeltm - so why don't you stop him"?

Yeah, had that this morning.

Filed that comment in the same bin as "Haven't you got something better to be doing?"

[FJRider]

Yeah, had that this morning.

Filed that comment in the same bin as "Haven't you got something better to be doing?"

Try explaining to them ... the difficulty in finding enough burglars and rapists that far out of town to keep you busy. I'm sure they'll understand ... :yes: