A new brand of chinese "sports bikes"? [Archive] - Page 2

speights_bud

19th August 2013, 19:33

How can you make judgement on a piece of machinery you've just seen pics of?
I've had the gear shift mechanism fall off my race bike, shit like that can happen on any motorbike.
I suggest you eyeball one of these bikes in the flesh before stirring up shit...........

Because as an engineer with experience in machining parts for bikes & prototype race cars etc I felt informed enough make a judgement call based on the very specific items in the photographs.

Race bike or road bike its up to the rider to make sure the machine is fit for use. Apparently some people prefer cheap crap over quality, but I guess that's the world we live in now, one full of disposable junk.

sketch

19th August 2013, 21:58

not realy but kind of related,
i brought a chinese pitbike, and not the cheapest one that all my mates got either, melted the clutch n no one can find me a replacement.
$1350 plus hundreds in aftermarket bling bits down the drain
sadface....

avgas

19th August 2013, 22:28

sketch

19th August 2013, 22:31

avgas

19th August 2013, 22:38

I not sure who taught you maths but there's a quite difference between hundreds and thousands
Really?
http://files.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_595/5955905/file/axe-snake-peel-shower-scrub-100s-1000s-small-89646.jpg
What is the difference between 999 and 1000?

Maths teacher taught me math. Its my england which isnt grand point-dexter. Blame the english teacher. Also fix the earthquake response/disaster recovery.

As for chinese bikes - Each to their own. Could be worse. They could be riding Enfields with no brakes.....or grip......
but fuck those Enfields were reliable, until you had to work on them, the next week.

avgas

19th August 2013, 22:40

damit!!!! i thought you had a clutch for me
Get some old ceramic plates, cut to fit. Voilà China clutch plates.

Hads

17th June 2014, 19:45

1 year on..

So my bike is now just over 1 year old, 21500 km's on the clock.

The bike has been running better than it first did in the cold months, although this year haven't ridden it through snow yet, that is when it truly had issues. The gear indicator issue has resurfaced interestingly, if it doesn't go away after an oil change I will investigate even further.

Fuel economy has remained the same over the length of my ownership, except when chain is starting to wear out.

There has been a little rust, a few dots on the triple clamp which I have treated with rust killer, and the little tags that hold the cables, interesting the other models of bike and the newer version of my model has an aluminium triple clamp and the tags are different, so it seems they have refined the design a bit from past feedback.

The chain is quite low quality so wears very fast, I would recommend getting a better quality chain when the original wears out.

The OEM tyres are really hard, which means that they last a long time, however they don't perform well in when the roads are wet and cold, so a recommendation is to replace these.

Parts are ridiculously cheap, I have managed to break another indicator and a wing mirror, and so far those parts haven't cost me more than $20 each. This is very important for me as a commuter as the more km's you do the more likely hood of an incident.

Performance seems all right, certainly not a racing bike though, but is quick enough off the mark to beat the traffic.

A small design flaw in the headlight caused the LED's to burnout, I have now provided Sven with a cheap fix using a Zener diode to prevent the cause, replacing the LED's was a little more tricky however, being a sealed unit.

Overall I have been fairly happy with the motor bike, so far it has served it's purpose well, and the major bits seem to be not showing any signs of wear. Generally parts are easy to get from Sven, and if he doesn't have a part he will order them in.

Feel free to ask any questions.

ducatilover

17th June 2014, 20:15

Does it wheelie?

Hads

17th June 2014, 20:27

Does it wheelie?

Not sure if you are being serious, but no I doubt it would, not that I have tried, as generally wheelies and newer riders end badly.

Akzle

17th June 2014, 20:31

who's sven

Hads

17th June 2014, 20:32

Also, if anyone is in the Loburn area more than willing to let people have a go if they are careful. I'm generally a trusting person.

Hads

17th June 2014, 21:00

who's sven

Guy that runs Two Wheels limited, that sells the bike I got.

Oakie

17th June 2014, 22:50

who's sven

A dwarf?

10 chars

Akzle

18th June 2014, 06:34

A dwarf?

10 chars

i had visions of a norweigian massouer....

Voltaire

18th June 2014, 06:48

Cheap to run and fun, isn't that what motorcycling is/was about?

unstuck

18th June 2014, 07:16

Feel free to ask any questions.

Do you manage to score pussy with it? Has it got a cool style, that you like? Do you smile often while riding it? Do you smile often while thinking about riding it? Do you talk about it to people who have no interest in bikes? Do you take pictures of it? Do you feel kind cool riding around at times? :wait:

Rcktfsh

18th June 2014, 07:32

who's sven

A lovesick Norwegian cod fisherman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPJK2zKtAxQ

Paul in NZ

18th June 2014, 07:49

There seems to be a big difference though, the Japanese were making huge leaps in technology and trying to produce better bikes than everyone else (whether they did or not is a matter of opinion) the Chinese seem happy to use old designs and just produce a cheap product that does the job. When I start seeing Chinese bikes competing and being competitive in racing, and coming up with fresh ideas and designs I will consider buying one, it can't be that hard, people build bikes and cars in their garages and every now and then they produce something special

Originally the Japanese did a lot of reverse engineering to make some of their 'jumps' and untill they had learned enough/built enough to get their own R&D going. Its hardly a new idea. Most of the factories will score an advanced competitors bike and pull it to bits for a squizz to see if there are any good ideas. British factories included...

Look good on them. This new wave of challanger brands is whats needed to keep the market interesting. Most of the japanese factories have kind of lost their way of late compared to the advances made in the late 60's to the 80's.. Lets see what they can do. Some of the stuff I've seen coming out from China is pretty good.

Paul in NZ

18th June 2014, 07:51

1 year on..

So my bike is now just over 1 year old, 21500 km's on the clock.

.

Good onya - keep riding the wheels off it...

Just ask them to change the names of the colours - Fruity Orange was just too much to take.... ;-)

Akzle

18th June 2014, 08:33

A lovesick Norwegian cod fisherman

well, that explains the cold hands.

Hads

18th June 2014, 19:15

Do you manage to score pussy with it? Has it got a cool style, that you like? Do you smile often while riding it? Do you smile often while thinking about riding it? Do you talk about it to people who have no interest in bikes? Do you take pictures of it? Do you feel kind cool riding around at times? :wait:

I smile whilst riding it, and I like it's style. I don't talk about it as much as I did about the Jawa, but I do still bore my wife talking about it. I do also take pictures, and think it is a cool bike to ride.

unstuck

18th June 2014, 20:08

I smile whilst riding it, and I like it's style. I don't talk about it as much as I did about the Jawa, but I do still bore my wife talking about it. I do also take pictures, and think it is a cool bike to ride.

Then that my friend, is all that matters. I always go by the grin factor, not the ramblings of others. Grinning is winning.:2thumbsup

Erelyes

18th June 2014, 20:11

Then that my friend, is all that matters. I always go by the grin factor, not the ramblings of others. Grinning is winning.:2thumbsup

Some bike owners almost seem to take pride in their bikes being unreliable! I suppose Chinese bikes aren't viewed as having personality... perhaps it will come.

Katman

18th June 2014, 20:15

Some bike owners almost seem to take pride in their bikes being unreliable! I suppose Chinese bikes aren't viewed as having personality... perhaps it will come.

As a motorcycle business owner I can categorically state that the Chinese bikes have no quality (or personality) whatsoever at present.

I refuse to touch them.

Voltaire

18th June 2014, 20:39

As a motorcycle business owner I can categorically state that the Chinese bikes have no quality (or personality) whatsoever at present.

I refuse to touch them.

Sounds like somewhere in the Midlands circa 1965 :lol::lol::lol::lol:

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 11:46

Atleast the Japs put a good amount of R&D into there products.
Most chinese products seem to be stolen or badly copied, then rebranded countless times from different factories. Yep I"m more than aware that most of our shit is made in china these days but you do get what you pay for.

Bullpaki.......

Many of us old fuckers will remember the momentous fuckups of the early Jap manufacturers.

Yamaha almost destroyed their well built reputation with the TX750 and 500. The XS750 was a lot better, but had its issues. The XS650, XS850 and XS1100 were the start of Yamaha getting it 'right' for 4T.

Suzuki? I never found their early 2T's to be as 'robust' as Yamaha's... There'll be a few here who remember the GT250M..... horrible bike for handling.
Suzook always had a 'reputation' of good 4T motors, but poorer build quality.

Kawasaki?? The WI (Megura) was a bloody direct copy of a BSA. Ever ridden a H1a? Want to talk about shit frame building?? :crazy: The mighty Z1, didnt handle too brilliantly either, later versions had the swing arm 'extended'.
Japanese disc brakes of the era?? In the wet? You want to experience 'squeeze and pray' ???

The Nonda 450/500 twins with the 'torsion bar' valve adjustment? the NSR250/400's. fragile as fark! (but quick) ;)

Even today there are 'recall's' for the Major bike manufacturers Jap/HD/Brit..... So lets not get too 'one eyed' about it.

On a side note? There's been a few single cylinder Chinese bikes over the years (and a few twins) manyof which are copies/licensed? of older Jap bikes. This thing will perform around the same as a GN250 reading the specs, not going to be a life threatening 160+kph machine.

Coming from the UK, it was not unusual to have a 'winter' bike... small, cheap, throwaway. Back then it was Jawa/CZ and MZ (Eastern block 2T) but with a little fettling, those things were actually quite robust, and if you threw it down the road on ice? A bit of scaffold bent the bars etc back into 'shape'. I'd see these bikes as just that, cheap, 'throwaway after 5yrs' second bikes....

Hell I am considering buying an MZ ETZ250 from a local as a commuter... putting too many K's on Mjolnir :(

http://tinyurl.com/k333g4y

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 11:53

She was possibly quite attractive in her twenties. When she took a shine to me though, those years looked that far behind her too.

She had muscle definition like you wouldn't believe in her arms and legs, and that was more than I wanted to see!

Admit it Drew, it wasnt the muscles.... it was when she whispered in your ear..... " I wanna make you my bitch" :spanking:

KIPS powervalve

19th June 2014, 12:05

Well it looks like a good effort at first glance. Being a single cylinder though, I'm not sure how competitive they would be. I had a Hyo and apart from the stink as electrical issues I fought (and lost) against, it was a fun little thing. Not the same juice when compared to a late 80s FZR, CBR, ZXR 250 etc., but still 30-something BHP (my '87 FZR250 HAD 42BHP when new). But the Koreans are far better known for their machinery quality than the Chinese (Take a quick look at Kia, and compare it with Great Wall or Chery car manufacturers - Korean is way better).

Looking at the CBR250r's dash is not a good indicator, because all the "Jap" 250s are all made in China nowadays anyway, even the once-bombproof GN250 went to China before being killed off.

I would not own one for that price, but give 'em 10 years on the track and they will be getting real competitive. At least in the small capacity market.

pritch

19th June 2014, 12:18

who's sven

To quote the movie, "I am Olli, he is Sven."

If you don't remember tha movie that could be:
A) because it is old
B) it was forgettable.

Shaun Harris

19th June 2014, 12:19

True dat, just make sure you put the brakes on first or you might break it.

I'll never get that wrong again thanks

pritch

19th June 2014, 12:32

But the Koreans are far better known for their machinery quality than the Chinese (Take a quick look at Kia, and compare it with Great Wall or Chery car manufacturers - Korean is way better).

And that is a very recent development.

It's not too many years since we got rid of all the Hyundais in the fleet because they were starting to look as if they might turn into hand grenades. In one model you could not engage reverse gear if the handbrake was on, because the gear lever would hit the brake lever.

Hyundai cars are a good fleet choice now but that has only really happened since the advent of the i30.

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 12:51

Nope, not forgotten. You may consider me naive, but I believe Suzuki is able to learn from past issues. To my mind, Suzuki is less likely to have cracked frames and rusted brakes than this new outfit precisely because they have had them before.

I'll bet you one whole dollar that owners will be calling these unknown machines nasty names a lot sooner than they would a GW250. Of course I may be wrong, but I'd be happier trusting my life to the Suzuki, thanks.

yes they learn.... just like my bike (MT-01) had a major recall due to the swingarm possibly fracturing due to the huge (for the time) torque of 110ft lbs. In fact it was only with the recent 'upgrade' the 'busa finaly achieved a similar torque figure.... 8 yrs later.

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 12:54

Just because there heaps of shite wont stop people buying em christ look at the shit Harley still produce and people love them.

there fixed it for Ya :whistle:

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 13:15

I know this happens in NZ, and have ACTUALLY SEEN the opposite happen in China (most of the lathes there are 50+ y/old). Will have a dig and see if I can find you a photo or 2.

So I guess it comes down to people doesn't it. Some folk don't see the point in maintenance.

Get what you pay for - in any country.

Yes and I am a 'Toolmaker' (or was) which means I am Higher National Cert, (equiv to a 'grade 1' mechanic?). My training and apprenticeship was done on 40yr old Wards, Churchill's, Colchester's etc... With beds so worn in places you had to learn how/when to apply or release a bit of pressure to keep the tool cutting straight. Or Jones Shipman surface grinders that came out of the ark... but we still had to work to 'general' tolerance of .5 thou.
What that bloody taught us was how to use your hands, develop SKILL in operating pieces of shyte,,, and still produce good quality.. in many Industries in the UK it wasnt shit workers, it (Brit bike makers for example) was Shit Management who were blind to investment.
ONCE I had qualified I was then put into the 'Toolroom' where we had up to date? :nya: equip and had to work to 1-2 tenths of a thousandth of an inch.... (a sheet of paper is approx 6 thousandths thick).....
Nothing wrong with using old technology gear... I wonder these days how many of the 'new generation' can use a spark eroder? Or make the 'Anodes' for them? Or operate a Profile Grinder? Lost skills!

avgas

19th June 2014, 15:31

Yes and I am a 'Toolmaker' (or was) which means I am Higher National Cert, (equiv to a 'grade 1' mechanic?). My training and apprenticeship was done on 40yr old Wards, Churchill's, Colchester's etc... With beds so worn in places you had to learn how/when to apply or release a bit of pressure to keep the tool cutting straight. Or Jones Shipman surface grinders that came out of the ark... but we still had to work to 'general' tolerance of .5 thou.
What that bloody taught us was how to use your hands, develop SKILL in operating pieces of shyte,,, and still produce good quality.. in many Industries in the UK it wasnt shit workers, it (Brit bike makers for example) was Shit Management who were blind to investment.
ONCE I had qualified I was then put into the 'Toolroom' where we had up to date? :nya: equip and had to work to 1-2 tenths of a thousandth of an inch.... (a sheet of paper is approx 6 thousandths thick).....
Nothing wrong with using old technology gear... I wonder these days how many of the 'new generation' can use a spark eroder? Or make the 'Anodes' for them? Or operate a Profile Grinder? Lost skills!
That sadly is also happening everywhere. Father-in-law has a factory in China making press nuts. His ones are the best in the world, he is a smart cookie so his tech while old school looking is some of the best in the world (mechanical not electrical). But do you think he can get skilled workers or people willing to learn.
Nope.
They want to operate a weld press that has a touchscreen. Not his custom build mechanical masterpieces that have more calculations in them than trading floors in NJ.

On that note I once worked on a brand new pump station that had this very fancy new blade valve. Thing was huge and had a motor to adjust the blade. Could move the blade in microns in and out. All electronically controlled. Was pretty cool.
But I noticed one bug with it - no way to hand crank the fucker. So in a power cut it had to have battery backup.
A big fucken valve - something made since the dawn of man and waterworks - unable to be hand operated not because it was too big.......because someone forgot the manual override. WTF!

Dave-

19th June 2014, 15:34

I wonder these days how many of the 'new generation' can use a spark eroder? Or make the 'Anodes' for them? Or operate a Profile Grinder? Lost skills!

There's an app for that now :lol:

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 22:20

The Chinese must be laughing themselves silly at our 2 dollar shop mentality.

In a similar vein, so were the Japanese back in the mid 80's in the early days of cheap Jap import cars.

They must have been having a great laugh at the crazy round eyes buying up all their cars that were due to head off to the wrecking yard.

And again, us old fuckers will remember the 1960's "made in Hong Kong'.. or the cheap Japanese radios, cars, electrical items that were produced. Cheap, tacky, often brittle, but for the price?? The 2 Dollar mentality has been around since 'ages ago'....

I can assure you that the Chinese/Asians can and DO produce good quality.. for a quality price. Else why would High Profile manufacturers move production there?

GrayWolf

19th June 2014, 22:41

There seems to be a big difference though, the Japanese were making huge leaps in technology and trying to produce better bikes than everyone else (whether they did or not is a matter of opinion) the Chinese seem happy to use old designs and just produce a cheap product that does the job. When I start seeing Chinese bikes competing and being competitive in racing, and coming up with fresh ideas and designs I will consider buying one, it can't be that hard, people build bikes and cars in their garages and every now and then they produce something special

The point being made is that the 'incumbent' bike riders simply bagged the Japanese bikes as, poorly made, crap metal, shit alloy, instarust chrome, will fall to bits in a week, etc etc... and this was in the UK with British bikes, that every run, at least one bike broke down, (at least)... bits would fall of from vibration, etc, etc.. and of course because of the 'crap alloy' and 'cheese like metals' they'll never last, will need rebuilding every couple of years...

Funnny thing is? there are more 1960's small cc Jap bikes, and more H1, H2, GT750's, CB750's etc running about in original condition (non rebuilt engines) than there will ever be of Triumphs etc made in the same period.....

Voltaire

20th June 2014, 08:43

The generators and chillers where I work are made in China, they are top quality. The Chinese can make anything to your price or quality specification if you are prepared to pay for it.
Motorcycle were only entry level vehicles until you could afford a car, the Mini killed bike sales in the 60's as did the Fiat 500.
What do you need a spark eroder for...just chuck the part and buy a new one ;)

Katman

20th June 2014, 08:50

I can assure you that the Chinese/Asians can and DO produce good quality.. for a quality price. Else why would High Profile manufacturers move production there?

I have never denied that the Chinese are capable of producing quality products. In fact I have stated on here that if you want the very best quality in the world there would be Chinese companies that could produce it.

The majority of their manufacturing though is set up to produce products at minimal cost for a world market that wants to pay as little as possible.

Until that changes the Chinese will continue to be known for their crap.

unstuck

20th June 2014, 08:52

I have never denied that the Chinese are capable of producing quality products. In fact I have stated on here that if you want the very best quality in the world there would be Chinese companies that could produce it.

The majority of their manufacturing though is set up to produce products at minimal cost for a world market that wants to pay as little as possible.

Until that changes the Chinese will continue to be known for their crap.

Exacerry. :2thumbsup:2thumbsup

Katman

20th June 2014, 09:12

I can assure you that the Chinese/Asians can and DO produce good quality.. for a quality price. Else why would High Profile manufacturers move production there?

And furthermore, the question of quality is not usually a problem associated with overseas manufacturers moving their production to China - (as long as the parent company vigorously maintains their quality control standards).

The problem lies with the Chinese manufacturers who have virtually nothing in the way of quality control standards.

Flip

20th June 2014, 12:38

The chineese have very high quality control standards.

The problem is in the short term low cost tends to drive quality down also.

You want Harley Davidson quality at a Chang Jang price and it doesent happen overnight.

Katman

20th June 2014, 14:11

The chineese have very high quality control standards.

Some Chinese companies have high quality control standards.

The majority of Chinese companies that are flooding the world market with cheap and nasty crap wouldn't even know the meaning of the phrase though.

Akzle

20th June 2014, 14:53

You want Harley Davidson quality...

haha! You do have a sense of humor afterall!

Voltaire

20th June 2014, 15:08

Some Chinese companies have high quality control standards.

The majority of Chinese companies that are flooding the world market with cheap and nasty crap wouldn't even know the meaning of the phrase though.

They probably say the same about here after the milk affair.
We get cheap crap here as we are a $2 shop economy and there no longer appears to be any standards enforced here.
I'm an Electrician by trade and some...most of the electrical stuff you can buy at some DIY places is absolute crap.

speights_bud

20th June 2014, 18:09

Yes and I am a 'Toolmaker' (or was) which means I am Higher National Cert, (equiv to a 'grade 1' mechanic?). My training and apprenticeship was done on 40yr old Wards, Churchill's, Colchester's etc... With beds so worn in places you had to learn how/when to apply or release a bit of pressure to keep the tool cutting straight. Or Jones Shipman surface grinders that came out of the ark... but we still had to work to 'general' tolerance of .5 thou.
What that bloody taught us was how to use your hands, develop SKILL in operating pieces of shyte,,, and still produce good quality.. in many Industries in the UK it wasnt shit workers, it (Brit bike makers for example) was Shit Management who were blind to investment.
ONCE I had qualified I was then put into the 'Toolroom' where we had up to date? :nya: equip and had to work to 1-2 tenths of a thousandth of an inch.... (a sheet of paper is approx 6 thousandths thick).....
Nothing wrong with using old technology gear... I wonder these days how many of the 'new generation' can use a spark eroder? Or make the 'Anodes' for them? Or operate a Profile Grinder? Lost skills!

At 25 I would say i'm probably one of the 'new generation'. I started my trade in Precision machining & Toolmaking in my last year of school (2006).
Its a pity really in some ways because Toolmaking is no longer available as a trade though the current training programs. I started out doing precision machining, Gear shaping, hobbing etc using old German/Czech/Engish gear, Pfauter, Tos, Lorenzo, Colchester. As you say learning how to fudge your way through less than ideal machining situations is half the fun!

I Turned to doing proper Toolmaking 3 years ago and now I daily use a Jones Shipman grinder, Exeter, Bridgeport etc. A bunch of our other manual machines are from the old era. I spark erode daily, machine & polish Graphite & Copper electrodes etc. Though the majority of my work is now CNC milled because of the speed/detail before being hand finished. Polishing is something I get a bit of a kick out of. Starting out with a machined surface and polishing to a lens quality mirror finish is pretty satisfying.

As you say Tolerances are tight, we usually work within 0.02mm as a rule of thumb, some more, some less. That's thinner than a ciggy paper.

Ocean1

20th June 2014, 20:28

The point being made is that the 'incumbent' bike riders simply bagged the Japanese bikes as, poorly made, crap metal, shit alloy, instarust chrome, will fall to bits in a week, etc etc.

Slightly related: I once split an SL125 tank, to correct some serious lumps. On the inside surface you could make out quite clearly the etched letters "ESSO", where the paint had been.

Typical Honda quality it was, it was also a recycled 44 gallon drum.

Ocean1

20th June 2014, 20:32

As you say Tolerances are tight, we usually work within 0.02mm as a rule of thumb, some more, some less. That's thinner than a ciggy paper.

Meh. When I were a nipper we 'ad to do that with nowt more than a lightly moistened toothpick.

Fuk'n yoof nowadays...

unstuck

20th June 2014, 20:32

Slightly related: I once split an SL125 tank, to correct some serious lumps. On the inside surface you could make out quite clearly the etched letters "ESSO", where the paint had been.

Typical Honda quality it was, it was also a recycled 44 gallon drum.

Now it would have Watties painted on the inside, and be a can and not a drum.;)

GrayWolf

20th June 2014, 20:56

Meh. When I were a nipper we 'ad to do that with nowt more than a lightly moistened toothpick.

Fuk'n yoof nowadays...

lukshery

a moistened toothpick? Lukshery,
We 'ad to lick it to a polished finish wit tongue, and a can of cherry blossom boot polish. :eek5:

Muppet

22nd June 2014, 14:53

GrayWolf

23rd June 2014, 14:21

I'm just not prepared to take the risk with a Chinese motorcycle. They have to prove themselves to the consumer. It's not up to us to "give them a brake (sic)" as someone said on the first page of this thread. Think I'll stick with the major marques who have decades of development, magazine reviews, trophies earned from MotoGP, WSB and IOM TT (to name a few) behind them. You go give them a break all you like, just don't come crying to me when your wheel falls off, or the brakes fail, or your engine seizes.

As has been pointed out, We'd still be riding Triumph's (old Bonneville's), Norton Commando's, BSA A10's/65's, Royal Oilfield (ooops :innocent:) Comets and Meteors EtC ETC, if we'd listened to the 'nay sayers' in the 60/70's about Japanese bikes. And as pointed out, the japs have had, and and still have their share of recalls and 'design fuck ups' even today.

awa355

23rd June 2014, 16:39

I was in a Jialing dealership and the chap gave me a price list for parts for the Jailing 150cc farm bike. I'll post it here so if anyone is interested in comparing parts prices with what they pay for parts for their eg, mudbug/AG 100 it might show what a Chinese bike would cost to repair etc.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/02081301.jpg http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/02081302.jpg
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/02081303.jpg

Scubbo

23rd June 2014, 16:56

their JH600 looks interesting

Muppet

23rd June 2014, 19:06

As has been pointed out, We'd still be riding Triumph's (old Bonneville's), Norton Commando's, BSA A10's/65's, Royal Oilfield (ooops :innocent:) Comets and Meteors EtC ETC, if we'd listened to the 'nay sayers' in the 60/70's about Japanese bikes. And as pointed out, the japs have had, and and still have their share of recalls and 'design fuck ups' even today.

So do Ducati, my neighbours 08 848 blowing up after 38,000km, case in point. And I'd rather ride a jap bike from the 70's than any modern Chinese bike any day.