A new brand of chinese "sports bikes"?

[Milts]

Has anyone seen these, which have just popped up on trademe and the seller's website?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-609490187.htm
http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/

They look to me like a cheap impression of what a sportsbike ought to look like... it'll be interesting to see if they take off at all, given they're even cheaper than Hyosung or Sym.

Does anyone know Sven or Matt, the people bringing them in to the country? http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Home/About

The website's "compare" data seems a bit lacking, as does any sign of quality control... but they do look shiney.

[quickbuck]

I wish them all the best......
Is the 250 Market (or learner market for that matter) really big enough?

Personally I hope so.
It would also be great if somebody brought one of these along to the track.... and raced it in 250 Production.
Of course somebody would have to fill out one of these (http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/regulations/homologation_papers.pdf?sfvrsn=2) first.

[Edbear]

Sad that so many don't know English. Brakes are for stopping, breaks are for fixing...

[AllanB]

Sad that so many don't know English. Brakes are for stopping, breaks are for fixing...

Breaks are for having cups of coffee in.

[Edbear]

Breaks are for having cups of coffee in.

True dat, just make sure you put the brakes on first or you might break it.

[nzspokes]

Looks like a XR200 with plastics......

[speights_bud]

Looks like fucking horrible build quality. Check out the swing arm and caliper on the trade me listing. I wouldn't be risking my life on that crap. Who services them for buyers at their locality? Coz bike shops here will tell you to piss off with your Chinese dirt bike shit

Hyosungs have been bad enough for some of the 'less major' parts prematurely failing and their build quality looks much better than those photos.

Just my 2c...

[Milts]

I think they've picked exactly the wrong time to do it. Pre LAMS, the bikes would have a much wider appeal as learner riders had less choice.

Time will tell when it comes to build quality. Not sure I like the idea of racing them because 1) I imagine parts would be a bitch 2) the listed max speed is 140 km/h - my 90s ZZR250 did better than that!

[scumdog]

Breaks are for having cups of coffee in.

And shooting brakes are a station wagon...:innocent:

[nerrrd]

Check out these pics of the dash - one's from a cbr250r, one's from the "himalaya" version from these guys.

How do they get away with this stuff?

[Karitane pete]

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Images/Bikes/Quantum.250R/quantum.250r.gearbox.orange.930x500.jpg

look at the weld on the gear lever at the gear box

[scumdog]

Check out these pics of the dash - one's from a cbr250r, one's from the "himalaya" version from these guys.

How do they get away with this stuff?

Cos they have no business ethics or morals???

And are cheaper...

[EJK]

Give them Chinese a brake. These guys are trying so hard at least. Look at em "wave" brake rotor dics, LED headlights, USD forks, tri-oval exhaust, adjustable(?) front forks, analogue/ digital meter.... They are trying hard!

But oh God please, that swingarm... Oh God no, please! Have mercy! :eek5:

[Rhys]

Check out these pics of the dash - one's from a cbr250r, one's from the "himalaya" version from these guys.

How do they get away with this stuff?

one has a blue light and one has an orange hugh difference to me

its all about the $

[Kornholio]

fucKINBOss ftw :headbang:

[speights_bud]

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Images/Bikes/Quantum.250R/quantum.250r.gearbox.orange.930x500.jpg

look at the weld on the gear lever at the gear box

That's disgraceful. Even a (cheap) bucket has higher build quality than that!

Seriously speaking though, I assume it is the AA who should be contacted about such poor quality machinery being allowed to be registered on NZ roads?? These pieces of shit are an accident waiting to happen. As Riders we are not doing ourselves any favors by letting our new and inexperienced riders kill themselves on such poor machinery??

Is this not something an organization such as BRONZ or whoever we have as representatives to LTSA should be investigating?

[nzspokes]

whoever we have as representatives to LTSA should be investigating?

Well they have been letting Fords in for years and they have not stopped them.

[Owl]

adjustable(?) front forks

Adjustable while riding no less.:rolleyes:

[speights_bud]

Well they have been letting Fords in for years and they have not stopped them.

At least the "Taxi Tanks" have a ton or two of steel and airbags between the passengers and what they hit.... Saw better build quality on the bikes in Thailand, and they modify the crap out of theirs with concrete re-inforcing steel!

[sgtp]

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Images/Bikes/Himalaya.250S/himalaya.250s.front-suspension.red-white.930x500.jpg

that mild steel bracket holding the brake line came out of the same parts bin they used to build my POS scooter. It will be covered in rust in 12 months

[Flettner]

Chinese, don't encourage them, don't buy their stuff, anything at all from them! They need to learn that you don't do business with the rest of the world like they do business with themselves. Quality is not high on their list of priorities but money is. Something is not right when I can quote on a job at a cut throat price but be out bid by chinese with a total job price at less than the cost the metal to do the job, cost me. This was a low run job too!

Asbestos in their engine gaskets! I understood it was illegal to import asbestos products? Chinese don't care, who is letting this happen? It's all about cost, a race to the bottom of the heap!
DON"T BUY THEIR STUFF it's just land fill !! if you can help it.

Yes I'm a bit bitter, they have stolen IP off my business and copied it bolt for bolt then claim it as a German built product under licence ( they wouldn't know what a licence was! ). Openly telling me by email that they will take what they want from our product range because developing a product themselves will cost too much. I ask you, do you want to deal with people like this, I don't!!

Thank you I fell better now, I've had my rant.

[Oakie]

It looks like these guys are on my commute to work. How ironic it would be if they were in the building occupied by some guys who imported and sold a heap of Chinese scooters about three years back and then disappeared after about 6 months.

[Mongolian]

Looking at their site, the image they are using for the Himalaya 250S on the front page differs very much from the images of the bike in the gallery.
Pretty sure the image on the front of the site is actually a cbr250 as it has the normal forks and a single brake (sorry break haha) disc compared to the USD's and the twin discs in the gallery.
Dodgy as f**k i would say these people are, and slipperier than a greased up midget.

[nzspokes]

Looking at their site, the image they are using for the Himalaya 250S on the front page differs very much from the images of the bike in the gallery.
Pretty sure the image on the front of the site is actually a cbr250 as it has the normal forks and a single brake (sorry break haha) disc compared to the USD's and the twin discs in the gallery.
Dodgy as f**k i would say these people are, and slipperier than a greased up midget.

Or they come out of the same factory......

[Road kill]

At those prices the bikes will sell to two types of people.

#1 Mugs.

#2 people that will work to make them run and be reliable.

I sort of look at not buying from the Chinese today as being a little like not buying from Japan during the 50-60's.

The fuckers are here an their not going away so we might as well just get used to it.

Buy British :msn-wink:

[Erelyes]

Different motors with different bore x stroke (yet both 250cc DOHC singles)
Different fairings, headlights, taillights etc (yet similar specs - DRLs, LEDs etc)
Same tyres
2kg difference in weight
Minor differences in brakes, suspension, etc etc

Sell two models that are completely different to each other yet as close as competitors can get? :scratch:

Who's the competition? OURSELVES!

Edit: Pisstaking aside, this quote from their website is interesting - 'Finally, we exist not because we want to generate profit. We exist because we want to change the face of the motorcycle market in New Zealand.'.
If this is true, part of me wants them to succeed...

That said, I'm not sure they'll succeed by making copies of old models.

The Chinese need to do like the Japanese did - stop copying, and drive their own ideas.

[jasonu]

Try and buy some brake pads for one of those shit boxes when the original ones wear out. Or if you let it fall over and need a new blinker... You get the idea.

[Katman]

Fools and their money........

[Robert Taylor]

At those prices the bikes will sell to two types of people.

#1 Mugs.

#2 people that will work to make them run and be reliable.

I sort of look at not buying from the Chinese today as being a little like not buying from Japan during the 50-60's.

The fuckers are here an their not going away so we might as well just get used to it.

Buy British :msn-wink:

Yes but the Japanese ( arguably ) have more ethics than their mainland cousins. I think they should just stick to making rice and firecrackers

[Drew]

Check out these pics of the dash - one's from a cbr250r, one's from the "himalaya" version from these guys.

How do they get away with this stuff?


Cos they have no business ethics or morals???

And are cheaper...


one has a blue light and one has an orange hugh difference to me

its all about the $You will find they bought the licence to the dash, and prolly most of the bike, and made them to a price even more than Honda did.




Asbestos in their engine gaskets! I understood it was illegal to import asbestos products? Chinese don't care, who is letting this happen? Ummm, brake pads for lots of cars and bikes are full of the stuff....Even ones that don't come from China.

[Katman]

Ummm, brake pads for lots of cars and bikes are full of the stuff....Even ones that don't come from China.

Not for a long time Drew.

[Woodman]

Not for a long time Drew.

About a decade ago, aftermarket pads were not allowed into NZ. There may still be some old stock floating around though. If these bikes do have asbestos pads then they should not have got in.

But meh....

[caspernz]

Anyone dumb enough to want to buy such low quality stuff...should be allowed to :crazy:

[russd7]

its a bit like those cheap chinese kids bikes the whare house had, to many dumbasses out there still bought them, the lucky ones had the motor crap out before they started falling apart

[speights_bud]

Tell them what you think:

https://www.facebook.com/TwoWheelsLtd


I'm not sure how anyone else feels but this really grinds my gears! currently finding who is allowing these to be registered, they also say LAMS compliant which is interesting.

[EJK]

<img src="http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9694/xye3.jpg" />

Good luck.

[mossy1200]

guess new cheap crap 250s keep the price of old worn out thrashed 250s down.

[ducatilover]

Fools and their money........ I'm broke :argh:


About a decade ago, aftermarket pads were not allowed into NZ. There may still be some old stock floating around though. If these bikes do have asbestos pads then they should not have got in.

But meh....
Great Wall utes have asbestos in the exhaust manifold gaskets, AFAIK there hasn't been a recall for them in NZ yet (because our gubbermunt sucks a shit load of yellow wang)



Some of the parts on them Chinese bikes are well made and/or under licence, but some aren't.
They've been selling similar shit in their own country for years

[MarkH]

I have nothing against Chinese people, the country or the companies making products, however:
I would rather spend the same amount of money on a 2nd hand Japanese bike (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha or Kawasaki).

Reasons:
Build quality
Established distribution chain & parts supply
My trust in the product
etc.

For what these new Chinese bikes cost I was able to buy a 15 year old Suzuki RF900R.
My bike is probably more reliable despite the age & mileage.
Mine would out perform these Chinese bikes by a large margin too.
I have more faith in being able to get parts for my RF, a LOT more faith!



Check out these pics of the dash - one's from a cbr250r, one's from the "himalaya" version from these guys.

How do they get away with this stuff?

Rest of the world: "that is the same as the Honda"
China: "no it's not"

Of course it is possible that they have licensed stuff from Honda, more likely though that they just copied it.

[The Reibz]

After buying 3 Chinese welders I have no faith that anything from China can be used directly out of the box without any problems. I have just tested my latest one for around 3 hours and found that the foot pedal is well and truely fucked, lucky I brought it from a respected retail shop which should replace it no issues. Stay well clear of chinese products on trademe. Most are being sold by fuckwits who have no idea what they are actually selling and offer zero support after the sale.

These clown shoe cunts likely fall into that Category. You would have more luck getting a barstool racer registered for the road than getting one of these things to pass its first WOF. Whats even more fucked is the WOF standards have changed meaning that owners of these bikes will not have to get them seen by a mechanic for around 3 years. My advice would be to stay well fucking clear of courier vans for the foreseeable future because there is no way half those cunts will be forking out for new tires/pads/fluids and they drive for like 100k+ per year.

Alot of the ali parts on these bikes look very weak. I would stay well clear of them

[ducatilover]

After buying 3 Chinese welders I have no faith that anything from China can be used directly out of the box without any problems.

I've had three Kawasakis that have broken, two Suzukis that have been shit and all my Hondas were great, so by your logic anything made by anyone but Honda is shit and everyone should buy Hondas.


Got a torch for this tunnel?

[MarkH]

I would like to point out that there are many good products manufactured in China - them Apple fanbois rave about the quality of their iProducts.

I have some good quality LED torches from brands like Jetbeam, Olight, Fenix, Nitecore & Zebralight - guess where these top brands come from?
None of these are cheap brands and they are all very reliable.

But there are many products where the manufacturers strive day & night to make their products cheaper - no corner left uncut!
Consequently there are many cheap & shitty product that are not worth their low prices.

Am I willing to ride at 100kph on a Chinese motorcycle while hoping that it is well made?
Nope!

Do I trust that the parts will be available for over a decade?
Nope!

There are Japanese motorcycles on NZ roads that are well over a decade old and many with over 100,000 kms of distance travelled that are still running great!
There are NOT Chinese motorcycles in this countries that have the same clear evidence of quality & reliability.
I would not hesitate to recommend that a biker take that $5k and spend it on a second hand Japanese bike instead of a brand new Chinese bike.

[ducatilover]

Do I trust that the parts will be available for over a decade?
Nope! why not? They make more of those silly little bikes tha any Jappa you'll buy. And their markets are absolutely massive, NZ market means nothing on a global scale.


There are Japanese motorcycles on NZ roads that are well over a decade old and many with over 100,000 kms of distance travelled that are still running great!
There are NOT Chinese motorcycles in this countries that have the same clear evidence of quality & reliability.
I would not hesitate to recommend that a biker take that $5k and spend it on a second hand Japanese bike instead of a brand new Chinese bike.

That's because currently the Chinese bikes sold here are the cheaper ones, and small bikes, most smaller bikes don't do anywhere near 100,000km anyway.
How many 250cc singles are there in the last 5 years from Japan that have travelled that far yet? None that I've known.

I'm not saying they're good bikes, just saying you should compare apples to apples, I worked on a Hudson with 600,000 miles once and it was a 1934, that means anything not from America is shit and cannot be trusted?



I love KB, the epitome of wild speculation.

[unstuck]

everyone should buy Hondas.

Most sensible think I have read on KB yet.:whistle:
A guy I know bought a chinese jet ski a couple of months ago for $6500 and has had 3/4 hrs use out of it and has cost him another $1300 to keep fixing it, and now he has hooked up the battery the wrong way round and fried all the electronics.:nya::nya: Stupid shearers.:brick:

[ducatilover]

Most sensible think I have read on KB yet.:whistle:
A guy I know bought a chinese jet ski a couple of months ago for $6500 and has had 3/4 hrs use out of it and has cost him another $1300 to keep fixing it, and now he has hooked up the battery the wrong way round and fried all the electronics.:nya::nya: Stupid shearers.:brick:

I know a girl who is a shearer, she knocked her now Ex partner out :2thumbsup Top girl that one.

[MarkH]

why not? They make more of those silly little bikes tha any Jappa you'll buy. And their markets are absolutely massive, NZ market means nothing on a global scale.

That's because currently the Chinese bikes sold here are the cheaper ones, and small bikes, most smaller bikes don't do anywhere near 100,000km anyway.
How many 250cc singles are there in the last 5 years from Japan that have travelled that far yet? None that I've known.

I'm not saying they're good bikes, just saying you should compare apples to apples, I worked on a Hudson with 600,000 miles once and it was a 1934, that means anything not from America is shit and cannot be trusted?

I love KB, the epitome of wild speculation.

Did I say that they weren't good bikes or that the parts would not be available?
The answer is no, I never said that.

What I suggested was that the established brands have built up a level of trust that these newcomers have not.
I don't believe that your wild speculation about parts availability has any basis - especially when you haven't even provided any evidence of the large numbers you claim they are making. The big Japanese four motorcycle companies have a well established parts supply, just because a person finds a Chinese brand to import it doesn't mean that he will be around in ten years to provide replacement parts.
How much do we know about this Chinese brand?
To suggest that we can have faith that they are a good company and their bikes are good and the parts will be available for decades - that would be wild speculation.

Even if that brand makes millions of motorcycles per year - do we know how long they expect them to last? Do they view their product as disposable to be replaced rather than repaired once over 5 years old? Do they intend them to be used for 20-30 years with parts available for that long? If you have access to answers then please share that information with us.

I'd rather go with a known brand with a good reputation than this unknown quantity from China.

[ducatilover]

Established? Well, give 'em a chance...
And as for parts, I have a hell of a lot of grief dealing with all the local chaps to get parts for my bikes, so I just buy from overseas. None of the locals could find fork seals for the ZXR400H1 forks one of my bikes runs :rolleyes: even with a list of other bikes that run the same seal (ZR750 etc) and it doesn't stop there. ZZR4/600 parts seem to elude most of them, even though they sold well new here.
And Kawasaki is an established brand isn't it? Same goes for my Hondas and my DR600/SP600 motor.

I think give the Chinese a chance, early Japanese products were absolute shit and China will improve their quality more in the future, which is nice. Market/Manufacturer loyalists will be in for an unfortunate shock if you ask me.
I'm not saying these bikes are good, I haven't worked on one or ridden one myself. But, ya never know.

[jolly_26]

When I get back up to Christchurch I'll have to go and have a look and a test ride on one and report back. If anyone else feels like doing so then please do as well.

[MarkH]

I think give the Chinese a chance

No thanks.
I'll let others be the early adopters and take the risks.
As I said - I'd rather buy a 2nd hand well established brand rather than take a gamble on a new brand that I know nothing about.
If I want to gamble I'll do it in poker, that way I make money instead of losing it.

[The Reibz]

Atleast the Japs put a good amount of R&D into there products.
Most chinese products seem to be stolen or badly copied, then rebranded countless times from different factories. Yep I"m more than aware that most of our shit is made in china these days but you do get what you pay for.

[BigAl]

Plus the Japs use decent alloys, look at chinese trailers with subaxles that bend, weilds breaking etc.

Quality control appears to be non existant.

[F5 Dave]

. . .
. . . early Japanese products were absolute shit and China will improve their quality more in the future, which is nice. . . .

. . .ahh, no they weren't. very quickly they worked out the mistakes the Brits etc had made (rather than slavishly replicating them year on year) and strived to improve metallurgy so that they had more reliable products than the competition.

[unstuck]

. . .ahh, no they weren't. very quickly they worked out the mistakes the Brits etc had made (rather than slavishly replicating them year on year) and strived to improve metallurgy so that they had more reliable products than the competition.

Yeah, the steel in these 62 Glorias was pretty tough.:yes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Prince-GloriaBLSI.jpg/800px-Prince-GloriaBLSI.jpg

[Drew]

I know a girl who is a shearer, she knocked her now Ex partner out :2thumbsup Top girl that one.Might be the one I thought was gona rape me, at the Ekky pub one night.

[unstuck]

Might be the one I thought was gona rape me, at the Ekky pub one night.

You might of liked it. I doubt it, but you never know. :argh:

[Drew]

You might of liked it. I doubt it, but you never know. :argh:

She was possibly quite attractive in her twenties. When she took a shine to me though, those years looked that far behind her too.

She had muscle definition like you wouldn't believe in her arms and legs, and that was more than I wanted to see!

[kinger]

. . .ahh, no they weren't. very quickly they worked out the mistakes the Brits etc had made (rather than slavishly replicating them year on year) and strived to improve metallurgy so that they had more reliable products than the competition.

It was more than just metallurgy.
They also aimed to blueprint components rather than working within tolerance like the UK manufacturers.
This leads to increased production time, rejection of unsatisfactory products, and a resulting increase in costs.
Can't see these bikes having such stringent controls being placed upon them.

There were a spate of cheap Chinese scooters in Blighty that had failures in the welds holding the bar risers on. They shortly after were banned from sale.

[AllanB]

I know a girl who is a shearer, she knocked her now Ex partner out :2thumbsup Top girl that one.

I once knew a girl who had been sheared somewhere ......... she was not Chinese though. If she had been it would have been sideways .....

[speights_bud]

From Me

I personally question the safety and build quality of the motorcycles that www.two-wheels.co.nz are providing for sale. After looking at the close up photo's on your website I, amongst many other motorcycle enthusiasts have serious concerns about the safety of riders who purchase the machines.

It is my opinion that it is only a matter of time before the failure of something in one of these bikes ...causes serious injury or death.

As an example, have a look at the quality of the gear shift mechanism below.

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Images/Bikes/Quantum.250R/quantum.250r.gearbox.orange.930x500.jpg

While I do understand the strengths of welds etc, should that weld connecting the push rod to the spline coupling fail then the rod will drop downward with the gear shifter and potentially dig into the road surface causing an accident which may result in Injury or even Death for the rider.

I cannot believe that the bikes are passing compliance testing and getting vinned. And No I do not own a motorcycle shop or work for one. This has nothing to do with competitive marketing/business. I have no agenda to push. I am an engineer and keen motorcycle racer.

Buyers beware. Don't risk your life or the life of others on poor workmanship.

Two Wheels Limited

Dear Patrick,

Thank you very much for your concerns and sharing them. We appreciate that you raise awareness for motorcycle safety.

As for the gear shift mechanism: please come and visit our showroom. We have a Honda CBR 250R here to allow for direct comparison with a more well-known brand in New Zealand: the gear shift mechanism is of the similar build quality; Honda also welds the push rod to the spline coupling which you refer to be less safe.

The motorcycles don't only pass compliance and VIN because for the sake, but also because of their overall quality. On top of that, all motorcycles come with EEC certificate confirming to comply with the strict European quality, safety, and emission standards.

You are very welcome to test our motorcycles yourself and comment again about their quality.

Thank you and kind regards,
Sven from the Two Wheels team

[speights_bud]

From Me

Two Wheels Limited:
"...We have a Honda CBR 250R here to allow for direct comparison with a more well-known brand in New Zealand: the gear shift mechanism is of the similar build quality; Honda also welds the push rod to the spline couplin...g which you refer to be less safe."

Thank you again for the offer to come look in your showroom, unfortunately again the distance makes it impractical for me to do so. I am making the comments below based on the photograph shown in your website. Which as a consumer i expect to be a 'fair representation' of the product being advertised.

I do not have any issue with the parts being welded together. Again i will say it is the QUALITY of the manufacturing that is the problem.

Below is an image of both a CBR250R and the Quantum 250R.

As you will see the weld on the CBR is good, it has sufficient penetration, it is smooth and runs fully along the bottom of the spline attachment. There are no sharp corners or weak spots created by undercutting. This is probably welded on both sides. It also pays to note that the split is located on the top of the spline. This allows a full weld to be made where the parts join across the maximum surface area.

On the Quantum 250R. You will see firstly that the split on the spline is at the bottom of the female part. This has two flaws.

Firstly when pressure is applied on the spline in a direction toward the front of the bike (up-shift). The spline will be naturally pressured open. This may encourage the bolt to work loose and if left may damage the spline as it rotates on itself. Dangerous if a rider looses the ability to select gears when riding. The location of the split also halves the amount of material available to weld.

Secondly as can be seen, the weld quality itself is poor. While one end appears to have good penetration, the cold slug on the outside indicates that the weld has not been formed correctly and a weak joint is most likely present. From what i can see the material appears to be a mild steel of sorts and as a result of such a join i would expect corrosion to occur from this point.

These are just observations and my opinion of the product being advertised. And personally i do not feel it is a risk worth taking for the sake of saving a few $$. I feel that new riders are most likely to be unaware of such issues or potential issues and that they will be influenced on the first impression of good looks to make their decision. Then again at the end of the day it is up to the buyer to decide if the product is suitable for their needs or not.

Regards

Patrick Doohan

[speights_bud]

Most people probably think I'm being an ass. But the way i see it is if my Son (or daughter) turned up having bought one they would get a boot in the bum. Firstly for not telling me they are buying a bike, then another for buying a piece of crap. These particular bikes are not up to a high enough standard for me to take the risk.

In a private message Sven has Invited me to come and have a look at the showroom and then depending on "who i am", he offered to take me out on the Track (Ruapuna) to see how awesome they are.

Perhaps a reputable KB member would like to do the honors and Contact him and do a review for us? I would talk to Kev at BRM but its not exactly a story i think they would be interested in covering.

[Milts]

I was going to say, everything points to the quality being rubbish but we won't know for sure until someone rides one.

I was hoping someone would know one of the two founders and be able to vouch one way or the other. As it is I guess someone will just have to take a bike to the track... how tragic :shifty:

[ducatilover]

I'll ride one when they're up here and do my best to break it (I'm pro at breaking shit, everyone knows that) just to help you guys out.

[russd7]

Most people probably think I'm being an ass. But the way i see it is if my Son (or daughter) turned up having bought one they would get a boot in the bum. Firstly for not telling me they are buying a bike, then another for buying a piece of crap. These particular bikes are not up to a high enough standard for me to take the risk.

In a private message Sven has Invited me to come and have a look at the showroom and then depending on "who i am", he offered to take me out on the Track (Ruapuna) to see how awesome they are.

Perhaps a reputable KB member would like to do the honors and Contact him and do a review for us? I would talk to Kev at BRM but its not exactly a story i think they would be interested in covering.
my father told me i wasnt allowed to get a motorbike, the fact that i had just come out of hospital with a smashed arm and water on one knee and a thrid degree burn behind the other from putting my mates brother cr250 through a barberry hedge may have influenced his statement, but anyway, guess what my first vehicle was :brick:

[speights_bud]

my father told me i wasnt allowed to get a motorbike, the fact that i had just come out of hospital with a smashed arm and water on one knee and a thrid degree burn behind the other from putting my mates brother cr250 through a barberry hedge may have influenced his statement, but anyway, guess what my first vehicle was :brick:

Yep my Ma and Pa said the same. I grew up on a farm, but Dad didn't start road riding until he hit 40. Then i won an A100 in a bet with a mate, bucketed it and the rest is history... I remember telling Mum "Well I'll buy the leather pants for racing the bucket, and if i ever do get a road bike then they'll be good for that too..." This was just after she told me she didn't want me road riding haha

[98tls]

Interesting thread really,hopefully someone does indeed take up the offer of riding one.Over the years ive read countless threads on countless forums re chinese and quality mostly re aftermarket bits ie knock-offs etc,whats provided the most mirth was the fact that the Chinese knock -offs were still far superior to the parts there Japanese motorcycle left the factory with not to mention far cheaper when it came to replacing.

[speights_bud]

Interesting thread really,hopefully someone does indeed take up the offer of riding one.Over the years ive read countless threads on countless forums re chinese and quality mostly re aftermarket bits ie knock-offs etc,whats provided the most mirth was the fact that the Chinese knock -offs were still far superior to the parts there Japanese motorcycle left the factory with not to mention far cheaper when it came to replacing.

Yep, like Japan i think china is on the verge of producing some good products. It just takes time to develop a quality industry. Top gear did a good episode on how far china has come.

As i said to Sven, my concerns are not with how well the bikes perform but how long they will perform for, a little thing overlooked can potentialy be disasterous...

C'mon Chch riders, go test ride one for us or we can all chip in and hire you one to thrash at the local BMX track for the weekend :Oops:

[EJK]

Yep, like Japan i think china is on the verge of producing some good products. It just takes time to develop a quality industry. Top gear did a good episode on how far china has come.

As i said to Sven, my concerns are not with how well the bikes perform but how long they will perform for, a little thing overlooked can potentialy be disasterous...

C'mon Chch riders, go test ride one for us or we can all chip in and hire you one to thrash at the local BMX track for the weekend :Oops:

I have life insurance so I volunteer. How can I contact this Sven dude?

[98tls]

Yep, like Japan i think china is on the verge of producing some good products. It just takes time to develop a quality industry. Top gear did a good episode on how far china has come.

Actually mate you just said what i was trying to:brick:Nicely put.Awhile back i found a carbon front guard to suit GSXR on Ebay for fuck all inclusive of post,had to buy it as i had fitted GSXR forks to my old TL,expecting rubbish i was well chuffed to receive a quality part in good time,whilst ive been burned before i have to admit as you say times past and theres some good stuff to be found.

[MarkH]

I was going to say, everything points to the quality being rubbish but we won't know for sure until someone rides one.

Surely from riding one you can only know how well it rides.
To really know how the quality is you would have to own it and ride it for a few years. If the bike stands the test of time then you can say it is good.

[speights_bud]

I have life insurance so I volunteer. How can I contact this Sven dude?

Private message him direct through the facebook page is what i did

[AllanB]

THat cheap arse swingarm many refer too looks like the swingarm on some of the 'economy' based Suzukis.

[ducatilover]

THat cheap arse swingarm many refer too looks like the swingarm on some of the 'economy' based Suzukis.

Looks better than the one on my GN600 :lol: so do the brakes...
And, well everything else.

[unstuck]

Best thing to do would be to nick one, cos its always a good way to see what they can take. Ride it like you stole it and all that. :devil2::headbang::headbang:

[Glowerss]

While not one of these dodgy little 250s, it seems China is starting to produce some quality bikes.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-610491046. is the first Chinese big bike i've seen. It's a total copy of kawasakis ER6n, but by most accounts it's a fairly well built machine. And it costs as much as a hyodung 250.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1210_cfmoto_650_nk/viewall.html is an aussie article on it.

I've seen it in the flesh, and while it was only a quick peek, the thing looked OK. It looked fairly decent actually.

Personally, I welcome the chinese and hope they can introduce some QC into their goods. Bike prices here are stupid, and if the Chinese can eventually produce it similar quality for less, than I'm all for it.

*edit, spotted they have these too http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-591512345.htm . Lot of kit for the price. Not a bad looking tourer either.

[avgas]

True dat, just make sure you put the brakes on first or you might break it.
Only break I had what when after a break, after the brakes didn't kick in, in time.

[avgas]

Reading this thread. I can't help but feel that Kiwibikers have turned into a bunch of pussies.
Looking back at past bikes;

- Some had shoddy brakes
- Some had shoddy tires
- Some had cracked welds
- Some were deformed
- Clutch cables broke
- Gear levers bent
- Low-sided crawlers
- Intake issues
- dangerous at high-speed
- Headset bearings shot
- Wheel bearings shot
- Chain loose
- Sprockets shot
- Brakes not bled
- Brakes always bleeding
- bits broken off leaving nasty catch points
- Lights that failed......

and truck loads more.

But you know what - I had such a grand time with these buckets / POS / Rolling wrecks that it taught me how to ride with known problems.

So put down the hi-viz, think about the pile of shit you learnt to ride on - and those key skills you learnt because it was a pile of shit.

Otherwise give up you bike, buy a volvo and become your dad.

[Drew]

Most people probably think I'm being an ass.
Me second invite, following you're continued and completely ignorant public slamming of the bikes I was importing, would be to get you into the shop in order to kick your face in...

But that's just me.

[Mushu]

The only problem I have with the idea of these bikes is I can't find out who actually makes them, it is quite obviously not sven himself and I can't find any reference to them anywhere but this Christchurch based website, if they are a reasonable quality product then surely they are imported by other people than just this one guy and to other countries than NZ, there are a couple of Chinese manufacturers out there that with time and experience should be able to atleast equal the quality of hyosung like cfmoto and a few others that seem to be concentrating on the dirt/pit bike market.
But this manufacturer is doing nothing to build an international reputation.
I'm in no hurry to go buy a non Japanese motor vehicle but there are plenty out there that are, just look at all the Hyodungs getting around, and all the Korean cars out there, some people just have to have things new and don't look at the quality, it's fine by me, keeps the used bike prices down as far as I can tell.

[chasio]

So for $750 more I could buy a brand spanking new GW250 (http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Street/GW250+Inazuma/). The mind boggles that anyone would buy one of these things.

[Yow Ling]

So for $750 more I could buy a brand spanking new GW250 (http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Street/GW250+Inazuma/). The mind boggles that anyone would buy one of these things.

So where are these GW250's made? Indonesia, Thailand, malaysia, probably anywhere but Japan.
I think the decent thing to do here rather than sounding like Winston Peters at a grey power meeting would be give Sven and Matt a call and borrow a bike to do a few laps off the back of the 250 grid at levels in 2weeks.

some of you guys got onto a rely small perceived problem with the gear lever spline, anyone remember the vt250? safe enough but had a chocolate engine, we don't know if these are good or bad, give them a chance to build a reputation ,good or bad.

[huff3r]

So for $750 more I could buy a brand spanking new GW250 (http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Street/GW250+Inazuma/). The mind boggles that anyone would buy one of these things.

Which is made in..... guess where?!

China :confused::laugh:

[Drew]

Which is made in..... guess where?!

China :confused::laugh:I was gonna let it go for a little while, before I pointed that out fuck ya!

[Oakie]

Check it out. This, plus a bit of paperwork, is how easy it is to become a importer of Chinese motorcycles... . http://guoweimotor.en.made-in-china.com/

[st00ji]

china can produce quality, its like anywhere else - you get what you pay for.

its a shame they have to build such blatant rip offs / stomp all over IP though. not referring to this bike in particular, just talking in general

[Mushu]

Check it out. This, plus a bit of paperwork, is how easy it is to become a importer of Chinese motorcycles... . http://guoweimotor.en.made-in-china.com/

I want one of these, but with a bit more rake on the front and a taller sissy bar though. easy rider? (http://m.made-in-china.com/product/698187435)

[Katman]

I was gonna let it go for a little while, before I pointed that out fuck ya!

There's a huge difference between products manufactured in China under strict quality controls imposed by the parent companies and products manufactured cheaply and distributed by Chinese companies though.

Shark helmets have a factory in China but would you wear a Chinese brand helmet that you'd never heard of before?

[Moi]

While not one of these dodgy little 250s, it seems China is starting to produce some quality bikes.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-610491046. is the first Chinese big bike i've seen. It's a total copy of kawasakis ER6n, but by most accounts it's a fairly well built machine. And it costs as much as a hyodung 250.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1210_cfmoto_650_nk/viewall.html is an aussie article on it.

I've seen it in the flesh, and while it was only a quick peek, the thing looked OK. It looked fairly decent actually.

Personally, I welcome the chinese and hope they can introduce some QC into their goods. Bike prices here are stupid, and if the Chinese can eventually produce it similar quality for less, than I'm all for it.

*edit, spotted they have these too http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-591512345.htm . Lot of kit for the price. Not a bad looking tourer either.

Did you have a look at what else they are selling through the same showroom? all on the same corner site? Or for that matter on their TradeMe page?
Doubt if they'd want to be tarred with the "selling garbage" tar brush...

[ducatilover]

all the Korean cars out there, some people just have to have things new and don't look at the quality, it's fine by me, keeps the used bike prices down as far as I can tell.

Hyundai have been building excellent cars for some time now, I've had a lot of experience with them and they, for some time, made much better cars than the equivalent priced Jap car. Even Kia are building nicer stuff now.
Hyosung is a bit meh though, nothing wrong with them really, nothing special about them, which is exactly what they're designed to do.


I'm legally blind in one eye, yet have less one eyed vision than most of you latte drinking FIAT owners

[Katman]

Hyundai have been building excellent cars for some time now, I've had a lot of experience with them and they, for some time, made much better cars than the equivalent priced Jap car.

Do you remember what they were like in 1985?

(And besides, Hyundai are Korean).

[ducatilover]

Do you remember what they were like in 1985?

(And besides, Hyundai are Korean).

Mushu was the one bringing up Korean crap.

Yeah, I remember the old Highundies Pony... and Scoupe etc. Not all of them were that shit, but a fair few of them were (like Proton...). The only semi redeeming feature was their use of Mitsi motors, well, they're poo also.

And now look where they are :bleh:


mmmm I'd happily rock this Chinese POS.. or anything they make, especially the ACE
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-608984699.htm

[nallac]

Do you remember what they were like in 1985?

(And besides, Hyundai are Korean).

Utter crap......

[Katman]

Utter crap......

Yes. At the time I was doing an apprenticeship at a Nissan dealer that was one of the first in the country to take on the Hyundai franchise.

Quite frankly, it was an embarrassment.

Having said that, Hyundai are now producing cars that are the equal of almost any other manufacturer.

Yes, some Chinese bike manufacturers will go on to produce high quality products but many others will fall by the wayside because they are only interested in quick profit from cheap crap.

We've yet to figure out which is which.

[scumdog]

Yes, some Chinese bike manufacturers will go on to produce high quality products but MOST others will fall by the wayside because they are only interested in quick profit from cheap crap.

.

Fixed:niceone:

[Oakie]

Do you remember what they were like in 1985?

(And besides, Hyundai are Korean).

Now oddly ... we bought my daughter a 1989(?) Hyundai Excel about 9 years ago and admittedly it was a piece of shit. But that piece of shit is still going ... used, abused, left in a paddock by it's new owner (our nephew) and that piece of shit is still going. What's my point? Errr, fecked if I know. I forgot now.

[avgas]

The only problem I have with the idea of these bikes is I can't find out who actually makes them, it is quite obviously not sven himself and I can't find any reference to them anywhere but this Christchurch based website, if they are a reasonable quality product then surely they are imported by other people than just this one guy and to other countries than NZ, there are a couple of Chinese manufacturers out there that with time and experience should be able to atleast equal the quality of hyosung like cfmoto and a few others that seem to be concentrating on the dirt/pit bike market.
But this manufacturer is doing nothing to build an international reputation.
I'm in no hurry to go buy a non Japanese motor vehicle but there are plenty out there that are, just look at all the Hyodungs getting around, and all the Korean cars out there, some people just have to have things new and don't look at the quality, it's fine by me, keeps the used bike prices down as far as I can tell.
Oh heaven forbid. Who cares where it is made. It has brakes, both front and rear. It has grip on the tyres - legal depth even.
Where was you bikes made? Japan? Really? All of them?

More importantly where is you Volvo?

Let people buy what they want. Stop being a combination of a boffin and a mother.

[ducatilover]

More importantly where is you Volvo?


Mine was built in Belgium.


And that's probably worse than China. All they do is make shitty little chips there

[avgas]

Mine was built in Belgium.
And that's probably worse than China. All they do is make shitty little chips there

Careful - or we will have those horrible Pommy Car Drivers association appearing.
Funny thing is you can still buy a chinese Buick or VW Santana..........but nothing updated from Morris since the Ambassador. Which never had brakes to start with.

[Flip]

Mr Pommy Car Driver here.

See it didn't take long. There is no jap crap in my garage. I dolike the new Hayobang 35 thing, looks like a nice wee 4WD car.

[Tagger]

Mine was built in Belgium.


And that's probably worse than China.

excuse me ??? i'll have you know that i have worked in that particular plant and build quality is one of their biggest priorities ...

[Erelyes]

Those CFmoto bikes look good. The main thing putting me off is the fact they're copies.

Now all they need to do is make a ~400cc triple that makes a shade under the 150kw/tonne LAMS limit, and utilises good ideas without copying other bikes directly.... :drool: :dodge:

[ducatilover]

excuse me ??? i'll have you know that i have worked in that particular plant and build quality is one of their biggest priorities ...

Well, I do like my Volvo and I haven't found any little shoestring fries in it.
Thank you for building me a very nice car :laugh: but why did your people forget my bloody cup holders?

[Flip]

I would rather have a chineese bike any day than a jap one.

284541284542

[Voltaire]

I would rather have a chineese bike any day than a jap one.

Did China supply the Wehrmacht with bikes?:rolleyes:

[cheshirecat]

Mine was built in Belgium.


Then you'll know of five famous Belgians (sorry old Euro joke)

[Mushu]

Oh heaven forbid. Who cares where it is made. It has brakes, both front and rear. It has grip on the tyres - legal depth even.
Where was you bikes made? Japan? Really? All of them?

More importantly where is you Volvo?

Let people buy what they want. Stop being a combination of a boffin and a mother.

I'm pretty confident my R6 was built with pretty stringent quality control, I'm sure it was built in Japan.
The DR, who knows but they have a reputation, plenty of them have been around the world.
If I'd known the ninja was built in Taiwan or whatever I might not have bought it, not because of quality issues, I might have anticipated the time it took to get parts shipped in (the bike was off the road for 6 weeks because of a simple slow drop)

I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese sport bike at over 250kmh like I trust the R6
And I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese dirt bike when I'm on my own in the middle of nowhere.

I wouldn't own a Volvo, my opinion of European vehicles is that they tend to be inferior to the jap alternative. Even among jap vehicles I tend to buy Toyotas, preferably anything built before about '95 and at the top end of its respective model range

With the import laws NZ used to have, used Japanese vehicles are so cheap I wonder why anybody ever buys anything else. Although pretty much any European vehicle can be seen as a fashion statement so I understand why some people must have an Audi or a BMW.

Other people can take the risk on the Chinese bikes until there is a clear brand reputation. As I said, I'm happy they're out there and that people are buying them but I buy my vehicles based on their reputation so I can trust them.

[ducatilover]

Then you'll know of five famous Belgians (sorry old Euro joke) Bloody Gauls! <_<




I wouldn't own a Volvo, my opinion of European vehicles is that they tend to be inferior to the jap alternative. Even among jap vehicles I tend to buy Toyotas, preferably anything built before about '95 and at the top end of its respective model range



That's a little one eyed really, but it leaves me more good cars to buy eh? Of the 22 or 23 cars I have had, half have not been Japanese.
I've owned more, from more brands than many, and I can say very confidently that brand loyalty is for wombles, there have been more bad Toyotas than good, but their good cars are impressively sturdy (got two up our driveway right now actually).
There are many, many decent European cars, and many shit ones. And, may I add many are very cheap to run/service/fix, just like many Jap cars.
Find another car that'll do everything as nicely as my '95 850, for the same cost and I'd probably buy it.

Each to their own, but I work on and have owned enough of most major brands to know that brand loyalty and lumping things in to good/bad categories dependent on where they're made is just silly. But, it makes life easier for people, just like racism, and well, anti-anything-ists :bleh:

[avgas]

Those CFmoto bikes look good. The main thing putting me off is the fact they're copies.

Now all they need to do is make a ~400cc triple that makes a shade under the 150kw/tonne LAMS limit, and utilises good ideas without copying other bikes directly.... :drool: :dodge:
Having worked with Chinese design/engineers. Chinese copies are as good as it gets - trust me, if it's not a copy......something is funky.

There is the odd needle in the Haystack in terms of Chinese original designs that works and looks good. But a majority I am thankful are copies of things that already worked.

Then again - I think the same about some Jap bikes. GB500 was a great little bike, and apart from the engine was as far from Japanese design as possible. Likewise the Katana and CB750. I mean think about - we could have all ended up riding different variations of a burgman scooter if Japan didn't pinch a few good ideas.

[avgas]

Find another car that'll do everything as nicely as my '95 850, for the same cost and I'd probably buy it.
Oh god man! Thats a horrid FWD one! Are you in some kind of religious sect or something? Did you inherit it from some grandfather?
That is not OVLOV that is masochistic masterbation.

[ducatilover]

Oh god man! Thats a horrid FWD one! Are you in some kind of religious sect or something? Did you inherit it from some grandfather?
That is not OVLOV that is masochistic masterbation.

:sweatdrop it was free and has the correct number of cylinders
And it's just a tiny bit safer than some rusty pile of shit ae9x 12v 1.3 Corolla eh?

[avgas]

I'm pretty confident my R6 was built with pretty stringent quality control, I'm sure it was built in Japan.
The DR, who knows but they have a reputation, plenty of them have been around the world.
If I'd known the ninja was built in Taiwan or whatever I might not have bought it, not because of quality issues, I might have anticipated the time it took to get parts shipped in (the bike was off the road for 6 weeks because of a simple slow drop)

I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese sport bike at over 250kmh like I trust the R6
And I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese dirt bike when I'm on my own in the middle of nowhere.

I wouldn't own a Volvo, my opinion of European vehicles is that they tend to be inferior to the jap alternative. Even among jap vehicles I tend to buy Toyotas, preferably anything built before about '95 and at the top end of its respective model range

With the import laws NZ used to have, used Japanese vehicles are so cheap I wonder why anybody ever buys anything else. Although pretty much any European vehicle can be seen as a fashion statement so I understand why some people must have an Audi or a BMW.

Other people can take the risk on the Chinese bikes until there is a clear brand reputation. As I said, I'm happy they're out there and that people are buying them but I buy my vehicles based on their reputation so I can trust them.
- R6 is assembled in Japan (for now)..........but parts come from elsewhere.
- Yamaha QC is great, but no where near what it used to be. Ever looked at their logo? Well lets just say they don't use tuning forks in the factory unless you paying over $200K
- I am yet to see a non- bears and non-jap bike break 250. So you fears are safe. In saying that I have seen some get close enough to have fun. RG150's are a good example.

- "Wouldn't trust a aisan dirtbike in the middle of nowhere" was the statement that good smashed 20-30 years ago - Honda even named a bike after smashing said statement. The Dakar. Took BMW 10 years to catch up.
- Euros in NZ......about 70% are from Japan/Singapore and are assembled there

You buy your vehicles after they have built a reputation. Chicken and Egg. As mentioned earlier - stop being so mum about people wanting to risk a little. Imagine how hard it is for NZ manufacturers to try and sell globally. Would you buy a piece of gear from a hillbilly nation, smaller than a suburb with technology 10 years behind and no formal export quality control?
I have seen people use the kiwi term "No. 8" to mean - Half-arsed and half-done, or sub-spec.

We need to face our own ghosts before telling others what to do.

[avgas]

:sweatdrop it was free and has the correct number of cylinders
And it's just a tiny bit safer than some rusty pile of shit ae9x 12v 1.3 Corolla eh?
AHA so the previous owner LEFT it for you.

Beggars can't be choosers.

You needed the 16V AE86 is what you need.

[Mushu]

Bloody Gauls! <_<



That's a little one eyed really, but it leaves me more good cars to buy eh? Of the 22 or 23 cars I have had, half have not been Japanese.
I've owned more, from more brands than many, and I can say very confidently that brand loyalty is for wombles, there have been more bad Toyotas than good, but their good cars are impressively sturdy (got two up our driveway right now actually).
There are many, many decent European cars, and many shit ones. And, may I add many are very cheap to run/service/fix, just like many Jap cars.
Find another car that'll do everything as nicely as my '95 850, for the same cost and I'd probably buy it.

Each to their own, but I work on and have owned enough of most major brands to know that brand loyalty and lumping things in to good/bad categories dependent on where they're made is just silly. But, it makes life easier for people, just like racism, and well, anti-anything-ists :bleh:

I know brand loyalty is bullshit each of the Toyotas I have owned have had their upsides and downsides and I have owned others like a primera or a WRX which I hated or my Gemini which I loved, I quite liked the Jeep cherokee my Dad used to own and most of Hondas sportier cars (S2000 is still the best car I ever drove), I found it interesting that when I worked at a Ford dealership in Sydney that almost everyone there ownedHoldens and that down the road at the Holden dealer everyone owned Fords, yet across the road was a Toyota dealer and there everyone owned Toyotas.

Infact the reason I bought an R6 rather than a CBR/GSXR/ZXR is because of Yamahas link with Toyota, (Yamaha did the induction and the heads of heaps of fast Toyota engines since the mid 80s). Its just experience, you go with what you know, I've had good luck with my Toyotas, and when I move back to Australia soon I will be buying a Hilux and a Tenere.

[Erelyes]

I know brand loyalty is bullshit

Exactly. And at the end of the day we buy what we think will make us happy.

Sometimes cars / bikes will be unreliable, expensive, frustrating, whatever - but still make us happy, so we'll still defend 'em to the death.

Other times we'll get unlucky, chalk things up to the car being 'a lemon' and learn to hate it. And associate that hate with anything else by the same name.

[ducatilover]

AHA so the previous owner LEFT it for you.

Beggars can't be choosers.

You needed the 16V AE86 is what you need. :D Yup, previous owner was my brother who decided I needed the Volvo seeing as motorbicycles are silly and dangerous contraptions, and for some odd reason I've kept it and rather like it. Something due to it being inconspicuous like a Camry, but not shit like a Camry?
I think every one needs an AE86 at some stage, bit of fun to drive. I'd rather drive an AW11 (yes, have driven both, the AW11 likes to kill more, which is cool)


I know brand loyalty is bullshit each of the Toyotas I have owned have had their upsides and downsides and I have owned others like a primera or a WRX which I hated or my Gemini which I loved, I quite liked the Jeep cherokee my Dad used to own and most of Hondas sportier cars (S2000 is still the best car I ever drove), I found it interesting that when I worked at a Ford dealership in Sydney that almost everyone there ownedHoldens and that down the road at the Holden dealer everyone owned Fords, yet across the road was a Toyota dealer and there everyone owned Toyotas.

Infact the reason I bought an R6 rather than a CBR/GSXR/ZXR is because of Yamahas link with Toyota, (Yamaha did the induction and the heads of heaps of fast Toyota engines since the mid 80s). Its just experience, you go with what you know, I've had good luck with my Toyotas, and when I move back to Australia soon I will be buying a Hilux and a Tenere.
Dirty bloody loyalist :bleh:
Interestingly, none of the Yamaha head Toyotas are the most reliable, the early bluetop 4AGE loved to do bottom ends due to holding oil in the heads, the 20V motors love to do rings and crack cranks amongst other things, the gen 1/2 3SGE motors loved doing bottom ends, headgaskets and so on. The G series motors were okay power wise compared to the competition, except when compared to Honda (I don't want to be a brand boy, but just saying)
I did however like the 3SGE in the Silleeeeeka I had, before it shat itself. It was a bloody nice motor. Can't say I feel the same about 4AGEs.
Agree on the S2000, awesome car and I wish there was now a market for good cars of that sort for those prices :weep:
After the 4afe, 7afe, 1uzfe, 3sfe and 5sfe stopped being used Toyotas famed reliability has taken a big hit. (Our heinous 4afe is now past 510km I think, original motor)

I like to try different things :cool: it has bit me in the bum though, that Honda Legend I once had for 4 hours... :facepalm:

[Mushu]

:D Yup, previous owner was my brother who decided I needed the Volvo seeing as motorbicycles are silly and dangerous contraptions, and for some odd reason I've kept it and rather like it. Something due to it being inconspicuous like a Camry, but not shit like a Camry?
I think every one needs an AE86 at some stage, bit of fun to drive. I'd rather drive an AW11 (yes, have driven both, the AW11 likes to kill more, which is cool)


Dirty bloody loyalist :bleh:
Interestingly, none of the Yamaha head Toyotas are the most reliable, the early bluetop 4AGE loved to do bottom ends due to holding oil in the heads, the 20V motors love to do rings and crack cranks amongst other things, the gen 1/2 3SGE motors loved doing bottom ends, headgaskets and so on. The G series motors were okay power wise compared to the competition, except when compared to Honda (I don't want to be a brand boy, but just saying)
I did however like the 3SGE in the Silleeeeeka I had, before it shat itself. It was a bloody nice motor. Can't say I feel the same about 4AGEs.
Agree on the S2000, awesome car and I wish there was now a market for good cars of that sort for those prices :weep:
After the 4afe, 7afe, 1uzfe, 3sfe and 5sfe stopped being used Toyotas famed reliability has taken a big hit. (Our heinous 4afe is now past 510km I think, original motor)

I like to try different things :cool: it has bit me in the bum though, that Honda Legend I once had for 4 hours... :facepalm:

funny how you note the 4age and 3sge as unreliable, I've been thrashing every kind of 4age since I got my license and never had a single problem, my old flatmate drove a ae92 Corolla about 20k without a radiator with no damage done. And my cousin had a 20v AE101 that never saw an oil change in about 7 years and managed to do the last six months of that with a fucked water pump, good Service and she runs good as new (I currently own a AE101 myself and an AW11 with a 20v), and I only ever saw 1 3sge fail, due to an oil leak that was never topped up (ex girlfriends car, I got sick of maintaining it) and even that managed about 50k after dropping the big end bearing even the turbo 3sgte seems to take a beating, although they kill turbos if the anti lag is enabled(over the years I've owned at least 13 Toyotas all of them either corollas or Celicas, and one MR2 so I know both those engines very well)

[avgas]

:D Yup, previous owner was my brother who decided I needed the Volvo seeing as motorbicycles are silly and dangerous contraptions, and for some odd reason I've kept it and rather like it. Something due to it being inconspicuous like a Camry, but not shit like a Camry?
I think every one needs an AE86 at some stage, bit of fun to drive. I'd rather drive an AW11 (yes, have driven both, the AW11 likes to kill more, which is cool)
Personal preference. I will never buy anything that only has 2 seats and less than 400 kw. Don't see the point - bikes are cheaper and more fun.
Plus when you have family and friends.......4 seats makes sense. More space to store shit.

Almost got an AW11 once. But instead went with an 83' Sapporo and never regretted that decision - but regretted selling that Sapporo. One of my most favourite cars ever. Twin-Mikuni Carb used to scream as I wrecked tyres. Ol' Single Cam Mitsi's were way more fun than the DOHC ones.

As for bad 3SGE's. I never had one. All of mine did 350k before I on sold em. Same with 3SFE I had.

My Vauxhall was a great shape - but tech was POS. I had a stereo that was mono. Steering was like a hacked bedford and the suspension was where the chassis flexed. The Toyota SR coupe and Nissan SSS of the same vintage made is look like a lame duck.

Funny thing was at the time. China had really good car manufacturing. They were making reliable VW (Santana's) and Buicks. So it went downhill when people wanted cheap crap.

[Katman]

Exactly. And at the end of the day we buy what we think will make us happy.

Sometimes cars / bikes will be unreliable, expensive, frustrating, whatever - but still make us happy, so we'll still defend 'em to the death.

Other times we'll get unlucky, chalk things up to the car being 'a lemon' and learn to hate it. And associate that hate with anything else by the same name.

And many times we buy simply on price because a great number of New Zealanders equate 'cheap' with 'bargain'.

Once an item has to be repaired often enough it becomes neither cheap nor a bargain.

[The Reibz]

Once an item has to be repaired often enough it becomes neither cheap nor a bargain.
Thats part of the joys of ownership. Like rusty fords and holdens that constantly need repairing and spend most of their lives on bricks in driveways. Same could be said about alot of bikes that spend most of their time in sheds.

And to the guys that were bagging the 4AGE above calling them unreliable and shit, is that why they are one of the most popular turbo'd toyota engines? I had a mate with a 20v Black top that was running 170hp on Avgas in a FXGT rally car. Shit was intense. My brother has managed over 300hp on a 4AGZE with a twin screw supercharger. As far as Toyotas go I don't think I would look for another engine in that year bracket. Lucky im a ford man and prefer a unreliable, oil burning, valve bouncing, camchain rattling 4L E-Series XR6. 5 Speed manual though, does madddd skids.

[Katman]

Put it this way, if the Chinese started to build copies of the Boeing 787, powered by copies of Roll Royce engines, and sold them to airlines for half the price of the Boeing original, would you fly in one?

[Katman]

Thats part of the joys of ownership. Like rusty fords and holdens that constantly need repairing and spend most of their lives on bricks in driveways. Same could be said about alot of bikes that spend most of their time in sheds.


What if all those repairs needed doing within the first 12 months of ownership.

[5150]

Personal preference. I will never buy anything that only has 2 seats and less than 400 kw.


Thats a bit of a contradiction for someone who owns a bike...:bleh::laugh:

[ducatilover]

funny how you note the 4age and 3sge as unreliable, I've been thrashing every kind of 4age since I got my license and never had a single problem, my old flatmate drove a ae92 Corolla about 20k without a radiator with no damage done. And my cousin had a 20v AE101 that never saw an oil change in about 7 years and managed to do the last six months of that with a fucked water pump, good Service and she runs good as new (I currently own a AE101 myself and an AW11 with a 20v), and I only ever saw 1 3sge fail, due to an oil leak that was never topped up (ex girlfriends car, I got sick of maintaining it) and even that managed about 50k after dropping the big end bearing even the turbo 3sgte seems to take a beating, although they kill turbos if the anti lag is enabled(over the years I've owned at least 13 Toyotas all of them either corollas or Celicas, and one MR2 so I know both those engines very well)
Oh I only have to work on them ya know :girlfight: seen plenty of reliable examples of the engines I mentioned, seen enough of the unreliable ones though. I've seen a Volvo like mine with over 400,000km on the clock, unopened original motor. Anything will last if you take care of it.
If you haven't come across an oil burning 20v, you haven't been out the front door much


Personal preference. I will never buy anything that only has 2 seats and less than 400 kw. Don't see the point - bikes are cheaper and more fun.
Plus when you have family and friends.......4 seats makes sense. More space to store shit.

Almost got an AW11 once. But instead went with an 83' Sapporo and never regretted that decision - but regretted selling that Sapporo. One of my most favourite cars ever. Twin-Mikuni Carb used to scream as I wrecked tyres. Ol' Single Cam Mitsi's were way more fun than the DOHC ones.

As for bad 3SGE's. I never had one. All of mine did 350k before I on sold em. Same with 3SFE I had.

My Vauxhall was a great shape - but tech was POS. I had a stereo that was mono. Steering was like a hacked bedford and the suspension was where the chassis flexed. The Toyota SR coupe and Nissan SSS of the same vintage made is look like a lame duck.

Funny thing was at the time. China had really good car manufacturing. They were making reliable VW (Santana's) and Buicks. So it went downhill when people wanted cheap crap.
I've got the bikes for fun, so in my head my car makes sense (it is a bit oversized for just a single guy) because every trip I do in it seems to involve travelling half the north island, and it's absolutely brilliant at doing it. ;) four seats is a bit much, I have no friends :bleh:
Those Sapporos were bloody cool little cars! Speaking of single cam Mitsis, where did all the Starions go? I service an old EX Turbo on rallies often, it's almost kind of cool. I have yet to drive a Vauxhaull that I like, or work on one that's not a screaming heap of shit.


Put it this way, if the Chinese started to build copies of the Boeing 787, powered by copies of Roll Royce engines, and sold them to airlines for half the price of the Boeing original, would you fly in one?
I would hazard a guess at nobody even noticing that it's a copy... I'm not too sure, but aren't they already copying planes?

[Katman]

I would hazard a guess at nobody even noticing that it's a copy...

Maybe not.

At least, not until they started falling out of the skies. :crazy:

[huff3r]

Put it this way, if the Chinese started to build copies of the Boeing 787, powered by copies of Roll Royce engines, and sold them to airlines for half the price of the Boeing original, would you fly in one?

Probably. People fly in Airbuses, can't be worse than them. :mellow:

[chasio]

There's a huge difference between products manufactured in China under strict quality controls imposed by the parent companies and products manufactured cheaply and distributed by Chinese companies though.

Shark helmets have a factory in China but would you wear a Chinese brand helmet that you'd never heard of before?

Exactly. Thank you for making the point explicitly.

I am not anti-chinese manufacturing but the reality is that none of us believes that chinese made items are well made across the board. I would happily buy a chinese made bike but only if I can pay the extra for the security of Suzuki's oversight, technical depth of knowledge, service network and warranty. And they will have learned something from their GN woes by now.

[jasonu]

Which is made in..... guess where?!

China :confused::laugh:

But most likely to Japanese standards and QC set by Suzuki. Just like Nike shoes that are made in Indonesia, China, and most recently Vietnam and are made to specs set by Nike in the states.
What we have here is a Chinese bike made to dubious Chinese 'specifications' using equally dubious Chinese quality control.

[avgas]

Put it this way, if the Chinese started to build copies of the Boeing 787, powered by copies of Roll Royce engines, and sold them to airlines for half the price of the Boeing original, would you fly in one?
Do you use a computer or a phone?
Have you done you banking on it?

[avgas]

Thats a bit of a contradiction for someone who owns a bike...:bleh::laugh:
Not really. The "and" part means that the first part of the sentence must be combined with the second to make the statement valid. It is not an exclusionary statement.
So while I would never own a sub-400kw 2 seater...........I own a sub-400kw 5 seater.

But it is still RWD.

2 seaters and fun an all. But pointless if its your only car and you have kids. Trade it in a get a CJ750 with a sidecar.

[avgas]

if I can pay the extra for the security of Suzuki's oversight, technical depth of knowledge, service network
You would pay for a cracked frame, rusted brakes and failed computers?

Or would you just pay for the warranty and forget that Suzuki have sold duds before? Recalls anyone?

Man people have fish bowl memories here. GSXR cracked frames? RG/SV rusted brakes?

[avgas]

Maybe not.

At least, not until they started falling out of the skies. :crazy:
We still fly on Boeings don't we. Google "Boeing + Crash".

Not saying they have shocking track record. Just saying that six sigma still means a 0.00034% failure rate. Which is fine unless you do 3,000 flights.......

[scumdog]

Once an item has to be repaired often enough it becomes neither cheap nor a bargain.

You gettin' at my Marina????:bleh::D

[scumdog]

What we have here is a Chinese bike made to dubious Chinese 'specifications' using equally dubious Chinese quality control.

Yet they make SKS and AK47 clones that work 100% - go figure!

[chasio]

You would pay for a cracked frame, rusted brakes and failed computers?

Or would you just pay for the warranty and forget that Suzuki have sold duds before? Recalls anyone?

Man people have fish bowl memories here. GSXR cracked frames? RG/SV rusted brakes?

Nope, not forgotten. You may consider me naive, but I believe Suzuki is able to learn from past issues. To my mind, Suzuki is less likely to have cracked frames and rusted brakes than this new outfit precisely because they have had them before.

I'll bet you one whole dollar that owners will be calling these unknown machines nasty names a lot sooner than they would a GW250. Of course I may be wrong, but I'd be happier trusting my life to the Suzuki, thanks.

[98tls]

You would pay for a cracked frame, rusted brakes and failed computers?

Or would you just pay for the warranty and forget that Suzuki have sold duds before? Recalls anyone?

Man people have fish bowl memories here. GSXR cracked frames? RG/SV rusted brakes?

TL1000 cracked frame/steering head/fuel tank replaced under recall etc etc etc.

[jasonu]

Yet they make SKS and AK47 clones that work 100% - go figure!

But they have been making them for ever and have gotten good at it. Who knows how good the first AK/SKS clones were. Maybe in 10 years their bikes might be acceptable.

[98tls]

Just because there heaps of shite wont stop people buying em christ look at the shit Harley used to produce and people loved them.

[ducatilover]

Yet they make SKS and AK47 clones that work 100% - go figure!

Yup, my brother has an SKSChina :niceone: very nice gun and fuggin cheap as chips (expensive chips mind you)

[Katman]

Yeah, but guns are designed to kill.

Is that what you want from motorcycles?

:wacko:

[ducatilover]

Yeah, but guns are designed to kill.

Is that what you want from motorcycles?

:wacko:

No I want a motorcycle to hug me when I'm sad.

Okay, that was a shit response, point taken Kman. :innocent:
More China bashing? More bashing a bike none of us have ridden?

That's like turning down a normal looking chick because she may or may not have early onset of leprosy, but we cannot confirm it until she has been ridden and your dick falls off

[Katman]

No I want a motorcycle to hug me when I'm sad.


Try this instead.

http://migrationology.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/smiling-lady.jpg

[ducatilover]

Try this instead.

http://migrationology.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/smiling-lady.jpg

:love: She's bootiful.

[Katman]

:love: She's bootiful.

She doesn't look expensive either.

[ducatilover]

She doesn't look expensive either.

My favourite! I'm a broke-ass nigger.

[Oakie]

I know this thread has just about run it's course but it just occured to me to Google 'Kinbo' http://www.kinbomotor.com/index.asp

About Us ...
We, Shanghai Kinbo Industry Co., Limited, grew out of FASTRAN Motor which was established in May of 2005. We have more than 7 years experience in the field of motorcycles, engines, and spare parts business.

Firstly, the functions of all bike assemblied and delivered can be assured by rich technologies, advanced testing equipment and professional inspection team. Secondly, based on efficient management and effective staff, we can act quickly for fast production schedules and good after-sales services. Over 7 years of experience helps us avoid any mistakes and keeps forward stably.

Following the principle of "Quality first, Honesty first, Customer first", our KINBO and FASTRAN brand bikes have been well exported to many countries, and received a good reputation from overseas markets.

Our experience tell us how importance of the full understanding during the business, and how importance to produce the high performance bikes, and how to make the order goes smoothly from the very beginning.

We always believe that your business OK then ours OK, we are ready to provide you with super bikes with competitive prices and the best services. We welcome all inquiries from the world who are interested in our goods.

Please place your trial orders to enjoy our services. Our company will develop together with you for a colorful life and a bright future.

[mossy1200]

Normally I like to support new product and the competition it brings but these bikes will not last well on nz roads.

[avgas]

but these bikes will not last well on nz roads.
Does that matter?

I personally don't think we should ban things because they won't last. Hell some make great lounge chairs (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Bimota_V-Due.jpg)

[jasonu]

Just because there heaps of shite wont stop people buying em christ look at the shit Harley still to produce and people loved them.

Fixed it for ya

[ducatilover]

Does that matter?

I personally don't think we should ban things because they won't last. Hell some make great lounge chairs (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Bimota_V-Due.jpg)

Nah, we must ban anything that breaks, like modern Volvos, VW's/VAG products, Mercs, many BMWs, many Toyotas (especially them troublesome CVTs and chain drive motors with stretchy chains), CVT Nissans and Hondas while we're at it. Rusty late model Falcons, same goes for the Dunnydores but not as bad, eleastic cam chain Alloytecs...

Fuck, that means we can't own anything except a Camry with a 5SFE? Oh, they drop nuts off the oil pump and throw oil out all over themselves.



Actually, I reckon a lot of these little Chinese bikes will do very well for themselves.
I cannot wait to get my grubby little mitts on one of them Megelli buggers, sexy little bikes! Bit of CR500 and it'd be good fun.

[scumdog]

I have heard from a good source that in China when there's a need for a product a factory is equiped to produce said item.

No production/assembly machinery maintainence is done as the theory is that whatever the item is it will only be 'in fashion' for a short time before a newer different item is seen to be wanted.

So why maintain the factory machinery to run for 50 years when it only needs to go for five (or less?)?

[avgas]

You forgot direct injected motors with EGR.........I love my V25DD.....except when cleaning said intake :lol:

[avgas]

I have heard from a good source that in China when there's a need for a product a factory is equiped to produce said item.

No production/assembly machinery maintenance is done as the theory is that whatever the item is it will only be 'in fashion' for a short time before a newer different item is seen to be wanted.

So why maintain the factory machinery to run for 50 years when it only needs to go for five (or less?)?
I know this happens in NZ, and have ACTUALLY SEEN the opposite happen in China (most of the lathes there are 50+ y/old). Will have a dig and see if I can find you a photo or 2.

So I guess it comes down to people doesn't it. Some folk don't see the point in maintenance.

Just remember the next time a engineer/mechanic/electrician/metal worker/road worker...... says "She'll be right" that translation will be required to put that on Chinese assembly line. If you want to replicate the same problem overseas that is.

Get what you pay for - in any country.

[ducatilover]

You forgot direct injected motors with EGR.........I love my V25DD.....except when cleaning said intake :lol:

I also forgot most modern Mitsis, and most of the modern crop of flimsy utes :shutup:
But it's okay, they're from Japanese companies and it's all good if they make flaming heaps of shit because they once made reliable stuff eh?

[huff3r]

I also forgot most modern Mitsis, and most of the modern crop of flimsy utes :shutup:
But it's okay, they're from Japanese companies and it's all good if they make flaming heaps of shit because they once made reliable stuff eh?

So did the brits.... once. :laugh:

Even if they did steal the designs for the RR V8s from the yanks.

[Edbear]

So did the brits.... once. :laugh:

Even if they did steal the designs for the RR V8s from the yanks.

No, no, they paid for them, just got them cheap as the Yanks weren't interested in making them. Too small, you see... :msn-wink:

[huff3r]

No, no, they paid for them, just got them cheap as the Yanks weren't interested in making them. Too small, you see... :msn-wink:

The by-product being that my 3.5L 87 RR uses less fuel than an 04 Jeep with the 5.6L :Punk:

[avgas]

So did the brits.... once. :laugh:

Even if they did steal the designs for the RR V8s from the yanks.
Or small car design from the itallians and germans.........

[avgas]

Lets also not forget who invented quartz watches.......then ignored them for 70 years.........

[Katman]

Get what you pay for.....

Isn't that what this thread's about?

[scumdog]

Or small car design from the itallians and germans.........

Pah, they didn't steal the design of the Austin-Morris DL500 ute off'n no bastard!:bleh:

[russd7]

Lets also not forget who invented quartz watches.......then ignored them for 70 years.........

yes but who invented fire works

[blackdog]

yes but who invented fire works

Whoever it was, pissed Guy Fawkes off.

[Kornholio]

yes but who invented fire works

Yeah, and look how long they last....

[avgas]

Isn't that what this thread's about?
Was. Until all the Mums donned aprons and then proceeded to tell us not to buy one because it was dangerous........on a motorbike forum.

I wonder if there is a knife murder forum somewhere, where they proceed to tell us not to buy chinese steel as it would more difficult to kill someone with it.

[Erelyes]

So why maintain the factory machinery to run for 50 years when it only needs to go for five (or less?)?

Er, well... even Corollas are 4-5 years between models. I'd say they need a few month's of productions, tops, to suit spare parts (depending on the particular bit).

AFAIK after that they then store all the tooling and bring something out once in a blue moon when they run out of, er, 'alternator bracket' spares. Which are readily available from wreckers anyways, so are rarely bought new.

So, really, WHY design tooling to last 50 years when the design will be obsolete long before.... just makes the end product cost more anyhoo, doesn't it?


I wonder if there is a knife murder forum somewhere, where they proceed to tell us not to buy chinese steel as it would more difficult to kill someone with it.

Don't buy Chinese big black rubber dildos, guys. No good. DAMHIK

[tigertim20]

Er, well... even Corollas are 4-5 years between models. I'd say they need a few month's of productions, tops, to suit spare parts (depending on the particular bit).

AFAIK after that they then store all the tooling and bring something out once in a blue moon when they run out of, er, 'alternator bracket' spares. Which are readily available from wreckers anyways, so are rarely bought new.

So, really, WHY design tooling to last 50 years when the design will be obsolete long before.... just makes the end product cost more anyhoo, doesn't it?



Don't buy Chinese big black rubber dildos, guys. No good. DAMHIK

needs to be enough spares to cover things like warranty repairs, which could be anything from a whole engine to a frame, to a loom . . . ..

Then theres insurance repairs which usually use brand new OEM bits. I did some a few years back on a 10 year old bike at the time. We used all OEM parts to fix that, had to wait 6 weeks for sipping from Japan though . . .

then there are the guys who are so anal about their bikes they refuse to replace worn out/damaged/failing bits wit anyting other tan OEM so as to maintain originality.

I dont think it would be particularly uncommon for 10 year old stuff to get fixed using original parts

[Erelyes]

I dont think it would be particularly uncommon for 10 year old stuff to get fixed using original parts

True; guess it'd depend on whether these Chinese bikes are good enough in other aspects to warrant fixing in 10 year's time.

Not every bike sold will need parts throughout it's life, either. Some just get ridden into the ground. Others get ridden - into the ground. They make parts to serve X% of the fleet, I guess.

I would think there will be parts still available in 5-10 year's time, judging by the number of bikes they sell there compared with here. But getting them ex China on the other hand might be harder than it is to get parts ex Japan!

[MarkH]

I wonder if there is a knife murder forum somewhere, where they proceed to tell us not to buy chinese steel as it would more difficult to kill someone with it.

A knife murder forum? That's being a little silly.
But of course there are knife forums where they proceed to tell you not to buy Chinese steel as it would be inferior in terms of 'edge holding' than the good quality (VG-10, S30V, CPM S35VN, etc) steels. If you don't know the difference between a Chinese knife stamped with "Stainless Steel" and a quality knife with a blade made of CPM M4 hardened to 64 on the Rockwell scale then you might be happy enough with the cheap Chinese product.
Porn for knife fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeP7HhHfgS0

There are plenty of different things that different people get fanatic over and I'm sure that there are a thousand and one different types of things where people are suggesting not to go with cheap Chinese products.

[Berries]

There are plenty of different things that different people get fanatic over and I'm sure that there are a thousand and one different types of things where people are suggesting not to go with cheap Chinese products.
But you have to weigh that against deep fried dog shit and stuffed intestine soaked in cow urine served with shaved sparrow eyeballs.


On a stick.

[actungbaby]

That's disgraceful. Even a (cheap) bucket has higher build quality than that!

Seriously speaking though, I assume it is the AA who should be contacted about such poor quality machinery being allowed to be registered on NZ roads?? These pieces of shit are an accident waiting to happen. As Riders we are not doing ourselves any favors by letting our new and inexperienced riders kill themselves on such poor machinery??

Is this not something an organization such as BRONZ or whoever we have as representatives to LTSA should be investigating?

seriously arent you getting tad emotinal .weld on gear lever please.

whould they get warrent if they where that bad . why whould somone but as

much money into slick web site . to be undone by the bikes themselves.

look fine to me

[AllanB]

It is sad that a 10 years old bike is now considered 'old'.

[actungbaby]

It is sad that a 10 years old bike is now considered 'old'.

not as old as you and me alan hehe we postively accent.. i suspect.

Mind you when was 19 i did wonder why 40 year olds didnt shoot themselves

Looked rather umm serious and stressfull lives know am dad and still wonder hehe

I know get my key buy ever pensioner a chinese motorbike presto . we can afford the super.

There eyesight think got roll royce of bikes . by the way bikes look fine to me..

Apprently we all rode rice burners and where not ture bikers funny that jap crap.

Know still going even 1970s models hmmmm harleys have what suspension.

Say it will be the same with chinese made . get grip chinese people been cooking working in nz

SInce 1800,s building are roads railways them and irish hard workers. but alot pansys of today

to shame . with face creams and waxing omg spare me ..

Iphones are best built in the world where foxcon factorys . hand finished cases.

paid crap money. know you genius want stop chinese company making probley paying there staff

alot better than apple .. shame on you. how do companys start from modest beginings

Improve with feedback postive. you always going on this to expesive blah blah what do you want ?

I have no time for wingers u want to improve something buy one and do it yourself.

seem such experts i expect you bikes be rolling of the factorys any time soon.

keep you prejuices to yourselfs looks rather telling am afraid .

[actungbaby]

But you have to weigh that against deep fried dog shit and stuffed intestine soaked in cow urine served with shaved sparrow eyeballs.

Ingorance is not bliss you proved that

On a stick.

oh am sorry you ihpone soaked in what all, computer compents made where ?

parts for you flash tvs hmmmmmm do you know..i do

[awa355]

Chinese versus the rest.

Now, if you were walking along Karangahape road and a kiwi girl stops you and says $100 for a jump sonny.

Then two Chinese girls come up and say Both of us for $100.

Which is going to give you the most 'bang' for your bucks. :eek5:

Would you still pick Kiwi made ahead of cheap Chinese made?

[The Reibz]

Chinese versus the rest.

Now, if you were walking along Karangahape road and a kiwi girl stops you and says $100 for a jump sonny.

Then two Chinese girls come up and say Both of us for $100.

Which is going to give you the most 'bang' for your bucks. :eek5:

Would you still pick Kiwi made ahead of cheap Chinese made?

Please do not compare motorcycles to whoring.

Im totally laughing though

[unstuck]

http://carhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/car-humor-joke-funny-bicycle-german-engineering-made-in-china-crash.jpg

http://myquoteshome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/31525_20121023_214628_funny_quotes_02.jpg

[Berries]

oh am sorry you ihpone soaked in what all, computer compents made where ?
Erm, I was sticking up for them.



I have no time for wingers.
Me neither.



I know get my key buy ever pensioner a chinese motorbike presto . we can afford the super.
You're not Chinese are you?

[Oakie]

not as old as you and me alan hehe we postively accent.. i suspect.
Mind you when was 19 i did wonder why 40 year olds didnt shoot themselves
Looked rather umm serious and stressfull lives know am dad and still wonder hehe
I know get my key buy ever pensioner a chinese motorbike presto . we can afford the super.
There eyesight think got roll royce of bikes . by the way bikes look fine to me..
Apprently we all rode rice burners and where not ture bikers funny that jap crap.
Know still going even 1970s models hmmmm harleys have what suspension.
Say it will be the same with chinese made . get grip chinese people been cooking working in nz
SInce 1800,s building are roads railways them and irish hard workers. but alot pansys of today
to shame . with face creams and waxing omg spare me ..
Iphones are best built in the world where foxcon factorys . hand finished cases.
paid crap money. know you genius want stop chinese company making probley paying there staff
alot better than apple .. shame on you. how do companys start from modest beginings
Improve with feedback postive. you always going on this to expesive blah blah what do you want ?
I have no time for wingers u want to improve something buy one and do it yourself.
seem such experts i expect you bikes be rolling of the factorys any time soon.
keep you prejuices to yourselfs looks rather telling am afraid .

Jeez I hope you were pissed when you wrote that! And just LOL at the last line and 'keep you prejuices to yourselfs'. I do try to keep 'em to myself dude!

Perhaps we should close KB at midnight?

[unstuck]

Jeez I hope you were pissed when you wrote that! And just LOL at the last line and 'keep you prejuices to yourselfs'. I do try to keep 'em to myself dude!

Perhaps we should close KB at midnight?

Im surprised you can understand anything the fella writes down.:blink:

[ducatilover]

Anyhoo.

Most of the motors you'll find in those bikes will be Japanese copies and most under licence/original tooling.
They've also been making them for a lot longer than 5 years and their parts supply is better than Japanese bikes usually are, due to the fucking massive market.


Really too much poorly educated speculative crap going on. What we'll see in NZ will be the smallest most pathetic dent on the Chinese market, they make such a massive amount of these things and the parts supply is insane, go price up a few Loncin parts? Who happen to still be making the GN250, for Spewzuki, amongst a few other people too.



:facepalm: Bunch of fucking wimmins.

[unstuck]

How come we cant get parts for chinese jetskis here. The hison website wont answer my e-mails. Maybe they are still locked in court action with suzuki.:angry2:

[speights_bud]

seriously arent you getting tad emotinal .weld on gear lever please.

whould they get warrent if they where that bad . why whould somone but as

much money into slick web site . to be undone by the bikes themselves.

look fine to me

Yea I'll admit to getting a bit worked up by it. but having seen other chinese bike build quality I'd be pissed if something failed unnecessarily and threw my kid under a truck....

Why would they do it i dunno, to make a quick buck? targeting & appealing to the market of ignorant new riders? To be honest, as he said to me he's not an engineer and i think they probably genuinly missed some of the design and build quality issues.

Website shouldn't have cost them shit, Sven one of the owners is a german who is a software development project manager.

WOF testers are not likely to inspect build quality, just broken shit.

My 2c

[Mushu]

WOF testers are not likely to inspect build quality, just broken shit.

Agreed, dangerous shit gets past them all the time, the difference being that a reputable manufacturer would perform a recall and fix the problem (usually at huge expense to the manufacturer), I recall one model if Prius had a problem with the brakes that could cause a crash, or one model if Civic that had an in tank fuel pump that could spontaneously burst into flames and that's just what I can recall offhand.

I don't see much chance of that happening with these, without a dealer network I'm not sure it would even be possible to perform a large scale recall.

[actungbaby]

Give them Chinese a brake. These guys are trying so hard at least. Look at em "wave" brake rotor dics, LED headlights, USD forks, tri-oval exhaust, adjustable(?) front forks, analogue/ digital meter.... They are trying hard!

But oh God please, that swingarm... Oh God no, please! Have mercy! :eek5:

100 % agree okaythe swing arm but proves they tested and added bracing bar..

they didnt just got kiwi way oh she be right..and i put myself in this same catorgue.

More bike makers is good thing.. they make them for huge domestic market ditto japan.

Its not the bikes it the plant that makes them. tooling etc at this point alot be hand finished .

Not like rebots in japenses italian plants .

Id buy one looks fine to me, you know market for bikes as transportaion only...

[actungbaby]

Yea I'll admit to getting a bit worked up by it. but having seen other chinese bike build quality I'd be pissed if something failed unnecessarily and threw my kid under a truck....

Why would they do it i dunno, to make a quick buck? targeting & appealing to the market of ignorant new riders? To be honest, as he said to me he's not an engineer and i think they probably genuinly missed some of the design and build quality issues.

Website shouldn't have cost them shit, Sven one of the owners is a german who is a software development project manager.

WOF testers are not likely to inspect build quality, just broken shit.

My 2c

some perspective please if you kid (child) whoudint you check his /her bike

its 180kg max plus rider machine its not sherman tank. do you not think pushbike can break too?

Biz man in chch lost his only son.. boy keep doing wheelies on small powered bike.

Till suspension gave out.. whos fault is that ? personall responablity ..its not dads descion.

His son was young, didnt know better . but who has to live with it. i get you point mate..

yes you feel powerless sometimes been there done that..

U dont wont son riding the bike tell him not to suggest another . provide him with another simple..

No use screaming going red the face jumping up down .

Its great you care about your family its to be admired.

I be first admit with my nephew 20 my son only 3 . whould i really want riding motorbike (road) not sure.

Any bike its up to them , i sure not going push on them though be just happy probley more nephew likes cars more.

[Mushu]

100 % agree okaythe swing arm but proves they tested and added bracing bar..

they didnt just got kiwi way oh she be right..and i put myself in this same catorgue.

More bike makers is good thing.. they make them for huge domestic market ditto japan.

Its not the bikes it the plant that makes them. tooling etc at this point alot be hand finished .

Not like rebots in japenses italian plants .

Id buy one looks fine to me, you know market for bikes as transportaion only...

So go buy one, ride it for a few months and review it for us.

While you're doing that maybe a little more work on your English wouldn't go amiss (so we can understand your review). I assume from your username that you're German, English isn't that different, if someone who speaks Japanese/Chinese can do it, it should be easy for someone who speaks such a similar language.

[speights_bud]

some perspective please if you kid (child) whoudint you check his /her bike

its 180kg max plus rider machine its not sherman tank. do you not think pushbike can break too?

Biz man in chch lost his only son.. boy keep doing wheelies on small powered bike.

Till suspension gave out.. whos fault is that ? personall responablity ..its not dads descion.

His son was young, didnt know better . but who has to live with it. i get you point mate..

yes you feel powerless sometimes been there done that..

U dont wont son riding the bike tell him not to suggest another . provide him with another simple..

No use screaming going red the face jumping up down .

Its great you care about your family its to be admired.

I be first admit with my nephew 20 my son only 3 . whould i really want riding motorbike (road) not sure.

Any bike its up to them , i sure not going push on them though be just happy probley more nephew likes cars more.

So in some ways we are on the same page, a little perspective on my angle might help though. I'm a toolmaker and its my job to be fussy and pedantic and not to accept rubbish. Quality through quality...

I don't have kids yet (watch this space ;) ) and yes if it was my kid I'd definitely put an eye over their bike. but I believe that if they are old enough to buy a bike they are old enough to learn to maintain and accept the inherent risks of riding. Ie road riding is dangerous kiddo time go grow up!

What I really mean about 'if it was my kid' Is a parent who had no mechanical or riding experience to put their eye over the bike to help the son/daughter ensure it was as safe as can be expected.

I could just see parents of that situation on Campbell live or target putting the rest of us in bad light and asking the hard questions about why are we knowingly allowing sub standard bikes in to the country from new. Bad news for all dealers and riders as a whole.

[avgas]

But you have to weigh that against deep fried dog shit and stuffed intestine soaked in cow urine served with shaved sparrow eyeballs.
On a stick.
That is why I love pies. They pack anything into those things and say its good for you......and so long as it tastes good no one cares.
4-and-20.....but who cares so long as the bastards don't sing.

[avgas]

Chinese versus the rest.

Now, if you were walking along Karangahape road and a kiwi girl stops you and says $100 for a jump sonny.

Then two Chinese girls come up and say Both of us for $100.

Which is going to give you the most 'bang' for your bucks. :eek5:

Would you still pick Kiwi made ahead of cheap Chinese made?
Are there good looking Kiwi hookers? Also the only kiwis on K'rd aren't girls.
Where is Spankme?

[Dave-]

How come we cant get parts for chinese jetskis here. The hison website wont answer my e-mails. Maybe they are still locked in court action with suzuki.:angry2:

Because you're 1 in a few million.

It's genuinely not worth their time to answer an email from some bloke speaking english in New Zealand.


Agreed, dangerous shit gets past them all the time, the difference being that a reputable manufacturer would perform a recall and fix the problem (usually at huge expense to the manufacturer), I recall one model if Prius had a problem with the brakes that could cause a crash, or one model if Civic that had an in tank fuel pump that could spontaneously burst into flames and that's just what I can recall offhand.

I don't see much chance of that happening with these, without a dealer network I'm not sure it would even be possible to perform a large scale recall.

To quote one of the greatest films:

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

[unstuck]

Because you're 1 in a few million.

It's genuinely not worth their time to answer an email from some bloke speaking english in New Zealand.



To quote one of the greatest films:

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

So your saying I should e-mail them in chinese??:devil2:

[Mushu]

Because you're 1 in a few million.

It's genuinely not worth their time to answer an email from some bloke speaking english in New Zealand.



To quote one of the greatest films:

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

I actually thought of that fight club quote while writing that post, but having worked as a technician for a couple of manufacturers is not completely true, especially of Honda, there were a few recalls that I doubt caused accidents, including the fuel pump thing, they were catching fire when the tank was low and the pump had stopped working according to the memo


So your saying I should e-mail them in chinese??:devil2:

Google translate is your friend

[jasonu]

Are there good looking Kiwi hookers? Yes except they all work in Japan. Also the only kiwis on K'rd aren't girls. Right again, FaFaFeenies (or so I am told)

10characters

[Sable]

While you're doing that maybe a little more work on your English wouldn't go amiss (so we can understand your review). I assume from your username that you're German, English isn't that different, if someone who speaks Japanese/Chinese can do it, it should be easy for someone who speaks such a similar language.

He's not German, even the name is misspelt. He's just retarded, or dyspeptic I mean dyslexic. I don't even bother reading his posts any more, too much mental effort.

[quickbuck]

Not sure I like the idea of racing them because 1) I imagine parts would be a bitch 2) the listed max speed is 140 km/h - my 90s ZZR250 did better than that!
Parts.... Anything you can break can be replaced quite easily.......
As for top speed.... Yes, your ZZR would do better than 140, because it pokes out more than 30Hp. The New Ninjas poke out 28 and have a top speed listed of 150k. They are the fastest 250 Production Bike (5 Lap Records in last years Nationals).

[Flip]

I had a couple of cheap chineese trail bikes. Used them on the farm for a few years, they did fine. They were just cheap chineese trail bikes after all. They did the job had a lot of fun and then sold them for $500 less than I brought them for.

Didnt have a problem other than the bottom shock mount broke on one, I just welded it back on, no biggie.

I could have brought a couple of DR's or AG's but they would have cost me a lot more than the $250pa these cost me.

What gets me is all the snobby elitist jap crap bike riders on the form. You sound like a bunch of old neandterthal Harley riding snobs! The chineese bikes are comming fast, it won't be long before they start making very high quality motorcycle products very cheaply.

[Mushu]

He's not German, even the name is misspelt. He's just retarded, or dyspeptic I mean dyslexic. I don't even bother reading his posts any more, too much mental effort.

He's very close to being the first person I put on my ignore list. It always seems to take me about 15 minutes to read and decipher his posts.


Parts.... Anything you can break can be replaced quite easily.......
As for top speed.... Yes, your ZZR would do better than 140, because it pokes out more than 30Hp. The New Ninjas poke out 28 and have a top speed listed of 150k. They are the fastest 250 Production Bike (5 Lap Records in last years Nationals).

You could upgrade things as you break them eventually you're sure to end up with a half decent bike lol.

My best effort was 158 on my ninja, my cousin swears he's got it up to 100mph (fi model, completely standard).

[quickbuck]

He's very close to being the first person I put on my ignore list. It always seems to take me about 15 minutes to read and decipher his posts.



You could upgrade things as you break them eventually you're sure to end up with a half decent bike lol.

My best effort was 158 on my ninja, my cousin swears he's got it up to 100mph (fi model, completely standard).

Yeah, mine will do 160 on the GPS as I brake into the corner formally known as Dunlop at Manfeild too....
Point is, it ain't all about the top speed, as you actually spend freak all time at top speed, and more about how fast you can take the corner....

[Berries]

The chineese bikes are comming fast, it won't be long before they start making very high quality motorcycle products very cheaply.
A mate recently bought two Foton utes (http://www.caradvice.com.au/124135/foton-ute-from-china-coming-to-australia-early-in-2012/) for the less than the price of one 'standard' NZ ute. I drive a Hilux sometimes at work and was impressed with his truck. Yes they are coming, and with the backing they have they will be class leading very soon. They will still have the stigma of being Chinese, but then I am sure Japanese bikes/cars were looked at in the same way in the 60's. And hey, at least they aren't American.

[Mushu]

A mate recently bought two Foton utes (http://www.caradvice.com.au/124135/foton-ute-from-china-coming-to-australia-early-in-2012/) for the less than the price of one 'standard' NZ ute. I drive a Hilux sometimes at work and was impressed with his truck. Yes they are coming, and with the backing they have they will be class leading very soon. They will still have the stigma of being Chinese, but then I am sure Japanese bikes/cars were looked at in the same way in the 60's. And hey, at least they aren't American.

No thanks, I'll be replacing my current car with a Ute when I move but I really don't trust any if the ones on the market these days, I'm thinking early 90s 4x4 Hilux back when they were solid and proven, easy to work on and good aftermarket support. They all seem to be built cheaply, sold cheap and throw away when the warrantee runs out these days, even the mighty Hilux.

[tigertim20]

A mate recently bought two Foton utes (http://www.caradvice.com.au/124135/foton-ute-from-china-coming-to-australia-early-in-2012/) for the less than the price of one 'standard' NZ ute. I drive a Hilux sometimes at work and was impressed with his truck. Yes they are coming, and with the backing they have they will be class leading very soon. They will still have the stigma of being Chinese, but then I am sure Japanese bikes/cars were looked at in the same way in the 60's. And hey, at least they aren't American.

Funny you say that.

I remember watching one of the 'On Any Sunday" movies, and the narrator says something like ""And here's a strange bike from Japan called a "XXXXX" (I cant remember if it was honda or Yamaha or what but its one of the big four) take a good look folks, youll likely never see another one of these foreign creations again.

Im sure some of you have seen the same bit!!!

[unstuck]

Maybe if they cleaned up their pollution issues, they will be around long enough to prove us wrong. But I would say they all are going to die of all the shit in the air over there, and wont be around long enough.:devil2: Sure their shit is cheap, cos they dont give a fuck if they are fucking up the planet while making it.:oi-grr:

[speeding_ant]

I thought it might be a good idea to try out a chinese headlight. Within a week the reflective coating had cracked and burnt.

I asked for my money back, and they requested I break it so they can claim insurance from shipping!!!!


Needless to say, lesson learned.

[Katman]

I think it's safe to say that one day there will be Chinese motorcycle manufacturers that can produce as good an example as any other manufacturer in the world.

At the moment though, the vast majority of it is crap.

While people continue to be happy paying for crap the rate of improvement in their product will be slow.

If people were to choose 'quality' over 'cheap' the rate of improvement would increase dramatically.

[Katman]

Didnt have a problem other than the bottom shock mount broke on one, I just welded it back on, no biggie.


That could be a totally different story on a road bike.

[Katman]

The Chinese must be laughing themselves silly at our 2 dollar shop mentality.

In a similar vein, so were the Japanese back in the mid 80's in the early days of cheap Jap import cars.

They must have been having a great laugh at the crazy round eyes buying up all their cars that were due to head off to the wrecking yard.

[avgas]

10characters
Kiwi hookers in Japan? I didn't see em when I was there.......but it probably a specialty thing/high roller etc. Must be tough though - the locals were bloody hot......

Also loved the fact that they wore short skirts with warming pads in the middle of winter for no reason except to look hot.

Don't even get me started on the Maiko's......I will have a hardon for weeks.

[avgas]

The Chinese must be laughing themselves silly at our 2 dollar shop mentality.

In a similar vein, so were the Japanese back in the mid 80's in the early days of cheap Jap import cars.

They must have been having a great laugh at the crazy round eyes buying up all their cars that were due to head off to the wrecking yard.
Don't forget the Australians........
Ford Focus - Spain
Holden Cruze - Daewoo
Holden Caddy - Daewoo
Holden Spark - Daewoo/Buick (China)
Ford Transit - Spain

and there are the various reputable "Japanese" cars that are made in Indonesia, Malaysia.......
Been told the new Mitsi Mirage once again is a Proton.

In saying that - I had more luck with the Korean made holdens than the euro or aussie ones. My aussie made Ford Laser was the worse POS I ever owned.

[nerrrd]

I think it's safe to say that one day there will be Chinese motorcycle manufacturers that can produce as good an example as any other manufacturer in the world.

Latest Kiwirider has a review of the CF Moto 650TK, I know it's a bike magazine so they probably have to be diplomatic to stay in business, but their comments are pretty positive. Couldn't find it online anywhere though, so...finish is "pretty good", "the bike has a feeling of substance; it feels well made, solid." And this one isn't so obviously a copy. Still, one of the panniers leaked, and 10 grand ain't exactly cheap.

[unstuck]

I was watching something on the telly last night about chinese made clothing and shoes, to stop them going moldy in storage and transit, they have been giving them high doses of some pretty nasty chemicals. Quite a few people who are handling these products ie... the ones unpacking containers and shop assistants, are getting some pretty nasty illnesses. There was a team from germany that went to china to see what was going on and what they found was quite disturbing. But now the chinese are getting worried that the rest of the world is going to find out what they are up to, they have moved a lot of their operations to bangladesh, because life is so cheap there, and their government is not at all worried about these people dropping dead inside clothing and shoe factories..Bit of a eye opener for this lad.:wacko:

[raziel1983]

"The Quantum 250R is a street racing motorcycle"

John McGuinness on one of these for the next IoM?.

[Katman]

I was watching something on the telly last night about chinese made clothing and shoes, to stop them going moldy in storage and transit, they have been giving them high doses of some pretty nasty chemicals. Quite a few people who are handling these products ie... the ones unpacking containers and shop assistants, are getting some pretty nasty illnesses. There was a team from germany that went to china to see what was going on and what they found was quite disturbing. But now the chinese are getting worried that the rest of the world is going to find out what they are up to, they have moved a lot of their operations to bangladesh, because life is so cheap there, and their government is not at all worried about these people dropping dead inside clothing and shoe factories..Bit of a eye opener for this lad.:wacko:

I bought a pair of jeans off Trademe recently - not realising that they were cheap Chinese knock-offs.

When they arrived they stunk of chemicals (as well as being made of a fabric that is so thin that it could hardly be described as denim).

The business practices and lack of ethics of the Chinese are appalling.

[unstuck]

I bought a pair of jeans off Trademe recently - not realising that they were cheap Chinese knock-offs.

When they arrived they stunk of chemicals (as well as being made of a fabric that is so thin that it could hardly be described as denim).

The business practices and lack of ethics of the Chinese are appalling.

I agree, and some of the conditions of the slaves/staff are absolutely appalling. No chemical protective clothing whatsoever, and when one drops and starts bleeding from the eyes, they get fired and replaced. Disgusting.:wacko:
Dimethylformamide Seemed to be a common chemical name, and that shit is nasty.:mad:

[Katman]

I forced myself to watch a video a while ago that was trying to raise awareness of the fur trade in China.

It showed dogs being skinned alive.

It's hard not to feel hatred for a society that doesn't see any wrong in those sorts of business practices.

[unstuck]

Something must be amiss there because they seem to be getting an awful lot of disasters, or has it always been a fairly high natural disaster area? I must admit my ignorance when it comes to basic chinese history. I do know they have been very unfairly treated in other countries in the gold days including NZ. They seem to be a very industrious nation, but they also seem to lack a basic moral compass when it comes to business.

[Mushu]

So, after reading the last 5 posts is anybody willing to purchase one of these bikes?

[unstuck]

Another thing I found interesting and disturbing about the textile industry in china is the way that they get the distressed look on new jeans. They sandblast them with sand with the silica content still in it. Sand with silica was banned from use by sandblasters here years ago(why I stopped doing it). They have no protective gear apart from a handkerchief around their lower face, because the companys wont provide any. I had the benefit of an air fed helmet when sandblasting, and it still found its way into every knook and cranny. These people over there are slaves in a sense and I dont like the idea of supporting them. Just my opinion though.:headbang::headbang:

[nerrrd]

Faarrk that's all a bit sobering as I sit in my chair (made in China) next to my heater (made in China) typing this on my tablet (made in China) in front of my TV (made in China) etc etc...

At least my bike might have been mostly made in Germany possibly perhaps (except for the bits made in China :wacko:).

[Jay GTI]

I love it when people talk about the horrible working conditions in China, the dodgy chemicals they use and the unsafe products they make. Yet it never seems to come around to the fact that us wealthy westerners have created the market that pushes them into those practices. We want cheap clothes, cheap household goods, cheap toys for the kids, cheap shoes, anything and everything and the only countries that can produce those goods at the prices we demand are China, India and the like. And they can only do it by breaking rules and treating people like shit. The Chinese want to make money too, the factory owners, the producers, the guys who create the 'Made in China' goods we buy without a second thought. But we demand they do it at a cost that is cheap to a Westerner, that allows the local distributors and retailers to make their money on top, while putting the goods on the shelf at a price so that your average Kiwi can go "hey look, I can buy a pair of jeans for $30!!".

Don't like their practices? Don't buy their products. Any of their products. If you do buy their products and don't think for a second about the industry practices you have just supported with that purchase, quit whining about a shitty, unsafe motorcycle, because you've helped create the shittiness.

[nerrrd]

Is it even possible to buy a consumer electronics item (computer/fridge/phone etc) inside NZ that wasn't made in China?

And is it the consumer's fault, or the "savvy" bussiness person who first realised that if they were to source their goods from China they could undercut the local manufacturers, sell more goods and make more money? Who's more to blame, the dealer pushing the drugs or the addicts buying them?

But yeah in general people suck :weep:.

[ducatilover]

So, after reading the last 5 posts is anybody willing to purchase one of these bikes?

Fuck no, a dog skinned bike would be shit. You'd have to be barking mad.

[Dave-]

Is it even possible to buy a consumer electronics item (computer/fridge/phone etc) inside NZ that wasn't made in China?

And is it the consumer's fault, or the "savvy" bussiness person who first realised that if they were to source their goods from China they could undercut the local manufacturers, sell more goods and make more money? Who's more to blame, the dealer pushing the drugs or the addicts buying them?

But yeah in general people suck :weep:.

I dont think consumer electronics is a fair comparison because it depends what level you go down to. Tait communications design, manufacture and sell radios (hardly consumer - but close) their assembly is based in NZ, but I'm sure they use components out of asia.

I realise that's a bit abstracted but I'm sure an electronic component manufacturer would be a nasty place to work in china.

[unstuck]

I love it when people talk about the horrible working conditions in China, the dodgy chemicals they use and the unsafe products they make. Yet it never seems to come around to the fact that us wealthy westerners have created the market that pushes them into those practices. We want cheap clothes, cheap household goods, cheap toys for the kids, cheap shoes, anything and everything and the only countries that can produce those goods at the prices we demand are China, India and the like. And they can only do it by breaking rules and treating people like shit. The Chinese want to make money too, the factory owners, the producers, the guys who create the 'Made in China' goods we buy without a second thought. But we demand they do it at a cost that is cheap to a Westerner, that allows the local distributors and retailers to make their money on top, while putting the goods on the shelf at a price so that your average Kiwi can go "hey look, I can buy a pair of jeans for $30!!".

Don't like their practices? Don't buy their products. Any of their products. If you do buy their products and don't think for a second about the industry practices you have just supported with that purchase, quit whining about a shitty, unsafe motorcycle, because you've helped create the shittiness.

But then discussions like these can often open peoples eyes to some of the things going on over there, and then they are able to make more informed choices.
I certainly dont buy cheap if I want something, if I want something, then I dont mind paying for it.
I am not saying that all chinese companys are treating their workers like slaves and following unsafe practises, but I will be doing more homework before buying chinese.:2thumbsup

[avgas]

Something must be amiss there because they seem to be getting an awful lot of disasters, or has it always been a fairly high natural disaster area? I must admit my ignorance when it comes to basic chinese history. I do know they have been very unfairly treated in other countries in the gold days including NZ. They seem to be a very industrious nation, but they also seem to lack a basic moral compass when it comes to business.
In comparison to our 2 earthquakes, 4 flood, 2 hundred year storms, 3 tornadoes......just in the last 4 years.

Nah chinese always had these disasters happening........but they are just better at reacting now. Their military is a refined tool when it comes to CD (same with Japan). Where as ours is a dull set of toothpicks. If it wasn't for the average bloke helping out at Chch - 1000's would have died. Hate to think about what would happen here if the shit really hit the fan like it did in Japan or China.

Chinese logic is pretty simple, if people ask for it there is a market. So question where the market is coming from, to find the moral compass. The "free thinkers" in china are only just coming out of the woodwork now - so give them 50 years and I think you will see a well oiled machine. It took Germany 20 years to come up with original ideas after the war....and they were the "modernist" movement prior to the war.

Its funny - if you look at a lot of the stable industries in NZ.......they work of a principal of what has worked overseas for 20 years is ok here. Meaning we are 20 years behind the ball here in some regards.

Will be interesting to see what Fletchers come up with for Chch.......but I suspect "Awe" will be the last word to describe it.

[McFatty1000]

In comparison to our 2 earthquakes, 4 flood, 2 hundred year storms, 3 tornadoes......just in the last 4 years.



Just the two earthquakes?
but I think the world over is getting a bit of it - just look at the US over the last 6 months

[98tls]

Faarrk that's all a bit sobering as I sit in my chair (made in China) next to my heater (made in China) typing this on my tablet (made in China) in front of my TV (made in China) etc etc...

At least my bike might have been mostly made in Germany possibly perhaps (except for the bits made in China :wacko:).

Guess there was a time when many wouldnt buy anything made in Germany for moral reasons and on that note merican made bikes seem very popular these days,am sure many would argue dont buy anything made in the USA based on moral grounds considering there history not to mention the present.That said being rather fond of my Border Collie Ks earlier post made me shiver.

[russd7]

Something must be amiss there because they seem to be getting an awful lot of disasters, or has it always been a fairly high natural disaster area? I must admit my ignorance when it comes to basic chinese history. I do know they have been very unfairly treated in other countries in the gold days including NZ. They seem to be a very industrious nation, but they also seem to lack a basic moral compass when it comes to business.

ahhh ya cynical old git, just do what everyone else does and blame it on global warming, hell we should still be in an iceage if it werent for all the bad shit humans have put in to the air

[Kornholio]

Iran had an earthquake not that long ago, killed a couple of hundy people I think which paled heavily in comparison to the one they had a few years ago(I cant remember exactly) which killed 42,000 yes 42,000 people... just saying....

[MarkH]

Is it even possible to buy a consumer electronics item (computer/fridge/phone etc) inside NZ that wasn't made in China?


I can't be 100% sure of every single component but my Samsung phone is made in Korea.

[Kickaha]

Nah chinese always had these disasters happening........but they are just better at reacting now. Their military is a refined tool when it comes to CD (same with Japan). Where as ours is a dull set of toothpicks. If it wasn't for the average bloke helping out at Chch - 1000's would have died. Hate to think about what would happen here if the shit really hit the fan like it did in Japan or China.

The army was on the way into Chch reasonably quickly I watched them roll past our door and It would have been within the hour, I was suprised how quickly they'd turned up



If it wasn't for the average bloke helping out at Chch - 1000's would have died
Total crap

[nerrrd]

I can't be 100% sure of every single component but my Samsung phone is made in Korea.

Found this, but it's old news, looks like they also manufacture in China to some degree.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57488780-93/samsung-under-fire-by-watchdog-group-for-using-child-labor/

So if you buy a bike made by one of the major manufacturers, can you be confident that their workers have been well treated even if all or part of it was made under license in China or wherever?

[Splineman]

I don't really care where stuff is made.......
All I know is that the Lifan 200 I had was a POS. No if's and but's it was an incredibly shoddy machine. You just don't know what lurks under the plastic and paint.
Luckily I got rid of it quickly.

[avgas]

The army was on the way into Chch reasonably quickly I watched them roll past our door and It would have been within the hour, I was suprised how quickly they'd turned up



Total crap
1) Don't discount luck with planning - Navy was in port, Army camp down the road doesn't count as a rapid relief disaster plan

2) Keep you blinkers on. But it wasn't CD workers pulling people out of the rubble - hell after everyone went home the first night there was 4 people pulled in the next 12 hours.....compared to the 100's that were pulled out earlier.....by average kiwis.

[avgas]

Just the two earthquakes?
but I think the world over is getting a bit of it - just look at the US over the last 6 months
Newtons 3rd Law and tectonic movement really. If something happens on one side of a plate - high likelihood will happen on another place on the same plate.

As for Tornados and other like - They have always happened, only difference is now the population is more. More population = Higher Body count + more press

[Kickaha]

hell after everyone went home the first night there was 4 people pulled in the next 12 hours.....compared to the 100's that were pulled out earlier.....by average kiwis.

I not sure who taught you maths but there's a quite difference between hundreds and thousands

[scumdog]

Hell, even on the Simpsons a few minutes ago : "It all fell apart...like a Chinese motorcycle.."

[unstuck]

Hell, even on the Simpsons a few minutes ago : "It all fell apart...like a Chinese motorcycle.."

Better work stories aye scummy, all comes from the Simpsons.:lol::lol:

[nerrrd]

Couldn't resist...

Chief Wiggum: Dispatch, this is Chief Wiggum, back in pursuit of the rebelling women.
Dispatch: All right, your current location?
Chief Wiggum: Oh, uh, I'm, er, I'm on a road. Uh, looks to be asphalt...oh, geez, trees, shrubs...er, I'm directly under the earth's sun...now!

[MarkH]

Subject is hatless, repeat - hatless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoCOXYiYM8g

[Hads]

Sorry for the thread Necro, just figured I could weigh in here.

I purchased a Quantum from Two Wheels limited in June and have done about 4500 km's with a lot of open road riding as I commute from out of town. So far I have had no breakages or signs of wear on bits that shouldn't wear. For the first 1000 km's an issue developed with the gear indicator, this was looked into by Matt and after an oil change it was resolved, most likely caused by metal in the oil as you'd expect while running in a bike, I haven't had an issue with the gear indicator since.

As for parts, I dropped the bike whilst stopping at an intersection, most likely hitting diesel, breaking the indicator unit and scuffing the exhaust and handle bar. It cost me under $20 to get a replacement indicator unit and I was able to pick up a replacement the next day.

Performance wise it isn't quick, but since I use the bike for commuting as long as it comfortably does 110 I don't really care, as I'm not really into racing it. It corners well and is quite stable even on black ice, which I unintentionally found out. It managed to retain grip in snow/slushy conditions and not feel unstable either.

The fuel economy is where it shines, I have been getting about 3.1 L /100km on average, without even trying to lower my fuel consumption. This is a big thing for me as I commute about 450 km per week and every small difference in the fuel economy makes a big difference in fuel costs.

As to reliability, it has proven more reliable than the 2004 gn250 I first had and the 1972 Jawa Californian which is no suprise due to age. It rides fairly similar to the 250cc Ninja, but isn't as quick.

I do know Sven personally which is why I was willing to take a risk on this bike, as I know Sven doesn't do things on a whim, he is very methodical and thinks things through thoroughly.

[Edbear]

Good report. Experience is worth something.

[MarkH]

just figured I could weigh in here.

Thanks for taking the time to give us the benefit of your experience.
I'm sure that over time the good & bad experiences will add up to a general sense of what the brand reputation is, maybe in a few years most motorcyclists will have no objection to several different Chinese brands.
We do rely on some keen experimenters willing to try out a brand early on, thank you for taking the chances so that we can all learn.

[unstuck]

Come back and let us know after a year or so, not a couple of months.:laugh:

[Oakie]

Come back and let us know after a year or so, not a couple of months.:laugh:

I think a report after a couple of months is valid but yeah, be interested to hear a report 1 and 2 years down the track.

[unstuck]

I think a report after a couple of months is valid but yeah, be interested to hear a report 1 and 2 years down the track.

Fair enough, but I think most things will be better tested after a year or so of usage. Give it time I say, a mate bought a zongen dirt bike a couple of years ago and it was fine for 6/7 months, then just fell to bits around him over a weekend ride. For all I know, it is still somewhere in the acton forest.:laugh:

[festus]

Looks like fucking horrible build quality. Check out the swing arm and caliper on the trade me listing. I wouldn't be risking my life on that crap. Who services them for buyers at their locality? Coz bike shops here will tell you to piss off with your Chinese dirt bike shit

Hyosungs have been bad enough for some of the 'less major' parts prematurely failing and their build quality looks much better than those photos.

Just my 2c...

45 years ago people like you were saying the same thing about "Japanese" bikes!...........

[festus]

From Me

I personally question the safety and build quality of the motorcycles that www.two-wheels.co.nz are providing for sale. After looking at the close up photo's on your website I, amongst many other motorcycle enthusiasts have serious concerns about the safety of riders who purchase the machines.

It is my opinion that it is only a matter of time before the failure of something in one of these bikes ...causes serious injury or death.

As an example, have a look at the quality of the gear shift mechanism below.

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Images/Bikes/Quantum.250R/quantum.250r.gearbox.orange.930x500.jpg

While I do understand the strengths of welds etc, should that weld connecting the push rod to the spline coupling fail then the rod will drop downward with the gear shifter and potentially dig into the road surface causing an accident which may result in Injury or even Death for the rider.

I cannot believe that the bikes are passing compliance testing and getting vinned. And No I do not own a motorcycle shop or work for one. This has nothing to do with competitive marketing/business. I have no agenda to push. I am an engineer and keen motorcycle racer.

Buyers beware. Don't risk your life or the life of others on poor workmanship.

Two Wheels Limited

Dear Patrick,

Thank you very much for your concerns and sharing them. We appreciate that you raise awareness for motorcycle safety.

As for the gear shift mechanism: please come and visit our showroom. We have a Honda CBR 250R here to allow for direct comparison with a more well-known brand in New Zealand: the gear shift mechanism is of the similar build quality; Honda also welds the push rod to the spline coupling which you refer to be less safe.

The motorcycles don't only pass compliance and VIN because for the sake, but also because of their overall quality. On top of that, all motorcycles come with EEC certificate confirming to comply with the strict European quality, safety, and emission standards.

You are very welcome to test our motorcycles yourself and comment again about their quality.

Thank you and kind regards,
Sven from the Two Wheels team

How can you make judgement on a piece of machinery you've just seen pics of?
I've had the gear shift mechanism fall off my race bike, shit like that can happen on any motorbike.
I suggest you eyeball one of these bikes in the flesh before stirring up shit...........

[Mushu]

45 years ago people like you were saying the same thing about "Japanese" bikes!...........

There seems to be a big difference though, the Japanese were making huge leaps in technology and trying to produce better bikes than everyone else (whether they did or not is a matter of opinion) the Chinese seem happy to use old designs and just produce a cheap product that does the job. When I start seeing Chinese bikes competing and being competitive in racing, and coming up with fresh ideas and designs I will consider buying one, it can't be that hard, people build bikes and cars in their garages and every now and then they produce something special

[mossy1200]

4500 km is more than I do some years since I dont ride to work.
I think that's a good start. not to sure about the metal in oil. Idd be draining again and checking it. If any metal you would think it would be in the filter and you would be hoping to see none?

[scumdog]

How can you make judgement on a piece of machinery you've just seen pics of?
I've had the gear shift mechanism fall off my race bike, shit like that can happen on any motorbike.
I suggest you eyeball one of these bikes in the flesh before stirring up shit...........

Hey, c'mon this IS K.B. - where common sense judgement is an option...