Only blue gang patches and vests allowed. And shit

[Akzle]

yerp (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2819584/Gang-patches-banned)

it seems only government appointed thugs are acceptable because "the other gangs intimidate people to enforce their ideology"
:nono:

[unstuck]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fadfWRl8Q_E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:motu::motu:

[Ulsterkiwi]

Ohhhhh internet forum trolling.....why do I always give in........

I dont want an argument, robust debate? bring it on.....

Assuming you are referring to the police, is their role not to enforce the laws of the land which are enacted by Parliament? That being a democratically elected body which every citizen over the age of 18 is entitled to vote for. Whether they choose to exercise that right or not is up to them. In a democratic system therefore, the police enforce laws supported by the majority, not an ideology. If you dont like the laws, change your representation.
The gangs are not accountable to the people and the perception is they do not answer to the law. While that's an ideology I have a difficulty with, I would defend the right of anyone to have that ideology and for those individuals to be protected by the same laws as anyone else.
THere is always going to be some will for places connected to government to set the standard of behaviour etc, it doesnt always happen but I do get what they are trying to do. The unfortunate thing is the lack of consistency when choosing when to set the standard and when to bend them.

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

[Grizzo]

Official hooligans they be.

[sinfull]

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?


I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

[Ulsterkiwi]

I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

which is exaclty the kind of fear I was meaning, we are told this is what is required for people to get into gangs, yet the gangs say thats bull and they arent really bad and the government and the police are out to get them and its not fair and so on and so on......

My question rephrased would be "what are the gangs going to do to change how they are perceived given they are not perceived in a good way?"

[Scuba_Steve]

Ohhhhh internet forum trolling.....why do I always give in........

I dont want an argument, robust debate? bring it on.....

Assuming you are referring to the police, is their role not to enforce the laws of the land which are enacted by Parliament? That being a democratically elected body which every citizen over the age of 18 is entitled to vote for. Whether they choose to exercise that right or not is up to them. In a democratic system therefore, the police enforce laws supported by the majority, not an ideology. If you dont like the laws, change your representation.

The police day in day out break ours laws especially the ones written specifically written to protect "the people" from extortion, corruption & scams perpetrated by this gang & their (also illegal) 'masters', so they break not only the letter but also the spirt/purpose of the law.




The gangs are not accountable to the people and the perception is they do not answer to the law.

The police gang is supposed to be answerable to 'the people' which is why the Govt want's this GSCB bill so they have an oppression tool not answerable to 'the people'



I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

Yea, if we're talking the Police gang they could stop breaking the law, scamming & extorting money, do their job & stop being the Govts bitch.
Gangs like Mongrel mob, Headhunters, Hells angels, cripples, bloodz etc could stop their stupid wanky initiation rituals only hassle other gangs rather than the public & stop being pussys with guns & go back to hand to hand like real men

[Ulsterkiwi]

The police day in day out break ours laws especially the ones written specifically written to protect "the people" from extortion, corruption & scams perpetrated by this gang & their (also illegal) 'masters', so they break not only the letter but also the spirt/purpose of the law.




The police gang is supposed to be answerable to 'the people' which is why the Govt want's this GSCB bill so they have an oppression tool not answerable to 'the people'



Yea, if we're talking the Police gang they could stop breaking the law, scamming & extorting money, do their job & stop being the Govts bitch.
Gangs like Mongrel mob, Headhunters, Hells angels, cripples, bloodz etc could stop their stupid wanky initiation rituals only hassle other gangs rather than the public & stop being pussys with guns & go back to hand to hand like real men

Ok, I consider myself an ordinary person, I dont know everything. I am curious, what extortion is the police engaged in? I dont mean the bad apples which will appear in every facet of society and are usually individuals or small groups of individuals. Are you saying there is systemic extortion, corruption and scams perpetrated by the police force in NZ that I, as an ordinary citizen, am a target of? Seriously, are we going to have speeding cameras as an example of state extortion? High Rego costs? Taxes?

I find it really hard to believe that this or any government in NZ or the police have any desire to oppress anyone. I grew up in a place where holding the "wrong" political beliefs meant you could disappear never to be seen again or be shot or blown up on the way to work. I find it amazing when those in my adopted country consider the NZ state and its organisations in any way oppressive. It is only the freedom we enjoy here that allows us the cushion of such thinking.

[sinfull]

which is exaclty the kind of fear I was meaning, we are told this is what is required for people to get into gangs, yet the gangs say thats bull and they arent really bad and the government and the police are out to get them and its not fair and so on and so on......

My question rephrased would be "what are the gangs going to do to change how they are perceived given they are not perceived in a good way?"

I have seen a number of changes over the last 20 to 30 yrs and many many of the clubs are not running roughshod over ppl any more, bike theft in most of the 1 % MC clubs that are left, is frowned apon, intimidation doesn't happen often, so what you say about the general publics perception is in the most part, are remnants of days when it was cool to look bad !

But there is still an element out there, who revel in creating fear in joe citizen, who's patch must be earnt and can be earnt quicker by performing criminal acts such as rape etc, rather than time in the saddle earning the respect of other club members !

Now i'm not saying 1% aren't into any criminal activity, there will always be the drug trade happening, no matter what bylaws are put in place and yes, gangs/clubs whatever they're called have members who are involved !

What i am saying is that i can see a public hysteria happening, (just because patch members aint wearing the patch, there are still some who will continue to intimidate/rape etc but walking down the road you won't know who they are) am i to tell my daughter it's ok babe, you're safe now ? Or should i tell her certain gangs who still persist with this sort of initiation would be predominantly Maori and more than likely wearing something red ?

Can you see where i'm going with this ?

[Ulsterkiwi]

I have seen a number of changes over the last 20 to 30 yrs and many many of the clubs are not running roughshod over ppl any more, bike theft in most of the 1 % MC clubs that are left, is frowned apon, intimidation doesn't happen often, so what you say about the general publics perception is in the most part, are remnants of days when it was cool to look bad !

But there is still an element out there, who revel in creating fear in joe citizen, who's patch must be earnt and can be earnt quicker by performing criminal acts such as rape etc, rather than time in the saddle earning the respect of other club members !

Now i'm not saying 1% aren't into any criminal activity, there will always be the drug trade happening, no matter what bylaws are put in place and yes, gangs/clubs whatever they're called have members who are involved !

What i am saying is that i can see a public hysteria happening, (just because patch members aint wearing the patch, there are still some who will continue to intimidate/rape etc but walking down the road you won't know who they are) am i to tell my daughter it's ok babe, you're safe now ? Or should i tell her certain gangs who still persist with this sort of initiation would be predominantly Maori and more than likely wearing something red ?

Can you see where i'm going with this ?

absolutely!

[sinfull]

It is only the freedom we enjoy here that allows us the cushion of such thinking.
Ok so this thread is about the police , but i aint going to enter a debate about the right or wrongs of police !
But the above statement i feel is something that is being taken from us little by little !

And i think the new bylaw is wrong !

[bogan]

Slow tubes out your way azkel? Didn't this shit happen years ago...

[Ulsterkiwi]

Ok so this thread is about the police , but i aint going to enter a debate about the right or wrongs of police !
But the above statement i feel is something that is being taken from us little by little !

And i think the new bylaw is wrong !

I hear you. Interestingly, I didnt say the bylaw was right, I said I saw what they were trying to do. I think however its ill considered as it merely highlights other inconsistencies, is glossing over the social and legal problems with the gangs and further alienates a group of people who as you said seem to enjoy being the bad boys of society (in part at least!)

Are freedoms being eroded? I have to acknowledge I have only been here for 6 years so relatively speaking my historical context is limited. HOWEVER, New Zealand is still by any measure a free society with low levels of corruption. That doesnt mean things can't be done better!

[jasonu]

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived...?

The answer is no. Outlaw the lot of them.

[buggerit]

I think patches are a good idea, especially in low light situations;)

[Scuba_Steve]

Ok, I consider myself an ordinary person, I dont know everything. I am curious, what extortion is the police engaged in? I dont mean the bad apples which will appear in every facet of society and are usually individuals or small groups of individuals. Are you saying there is systemic extortion, corruption and scams perpetrated by the police force in NZ that I, as an ordinary citizen, am a target of? Seriously, are we going to have speeding cameras as an example of state extortion? High Rego costs? Taxes?

I find it really hard to believe that this or any government in NZ or the police have any desire to oppress anyone. I grew up in a place where holding the "wrong" political beliefs meant you could disappear never to be seen again or be shot or blown up on the way to work. I find it amazing when those in my adopted country consider the NZ state and its organisations in any way oppressive. It is only the freedom we enjoy here that allows us the cushion of such thinking.

Yea well I'll skip over the speed scam as that's a massive extortionist scam in itself & will waste many a server space on it's own, but the whole infringement/fine system in itself is an extortion you in no way under NZ law have a responsibility to pay it doing so is an admission of guilt, you don't have to prove your innocence under law it is upto the Gang accusing you to prove your guilt but this is not how the system of corruption works it instead they extort that money from you without prove of guilt without conviction without legal right. most simply pay because fighting it has been made hard to a point it's not worth it, even just missing half a day of work to prove the default is too much for most




Are freedoms being eroded? I have to acknowledge I have only been here for 6 years so relatively speaking my historical context is limited. HOWEVER, New Zealand is still by any measure a free society with low levels of corruption. That doesnt mean things can't be done better!

Yes! Just because we're still better than most doesn't justify the erosion of our rights & laws. We should NEVER be going "well we're not as oppressed as North Korea, so we still have 'freedom'" instead we should be looking at what rights are afforded to us by law, what rights should be afforded to us & what rights have been taken from us & force them to give us those rights!

[scumdog]

The police day in day out break ours laws especially the ones written specifically written to protect "the people" from extortion, corruption & scams perpetrated by this gang & their (also illegal) 'masters', so they break not only the letter but also the spirt/purpose of the law.

The police gang is supposed to be answerable to 'the people' which is why the Govt want's this GSCB bill so they have an oppression tool not answerable to 'the people'

Yea, if we're talking the Police gang they could stop breaking the law, scamming & extorting money, do their job & stop being the Govts bitch.


Wa-wa-fucking-wa, cry me a river sunshine....:bleh:

[MIXONE]

I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

I thought that had stopped after the Amberley Park thing back in the late 70's early 80's?

[Akzle]

I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

clint rick// who?

[mossy1200]

I people didn't do harm to each other we wouldn't need laws.

[Road kill]

I people didn't do harm to each other we wouldn't need laws.

Step away from the Doobie motherfucker !

[Akzle]

Slow tubes out your way azkel? Didn't this shit happen years ago...

i think i need to warm the valves up more before giving them the full load...
No. I meant the new tomfuckery.

[Akzle]

Assuming you are referring to the police, is their role not to enforce the laws of the land which are enacted by Parliament?

The police enforce laws supported by the majority, not an ideology. If you dont like the laws, change your representation.

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

nooooohoohohoooo.
The 'law of the land' has FUKEN NOTHING to do with parliament. The law of the land binds everyone equally.
LEGISLATION is the shit parliament cranks out, its company policy, but i aint an employee.

You might be happy with mob rule, but i dont accept it. I dont grant you jurisdiction over me.

Funny enough, total number of times ive had my house done over by 'criminal gangs' and my shit taken: 0.
Number of times the police have forcibly entered my private property and taken my shit: 3.
So. Who am i more worried about theft without recourse?

[scumdog]

Funny enough, total number of times ive had my house done over by 'criminal gangs' and my shit taken: 0.
Number of times the police have forcibly entered my private property and taken my shit: 3.
So. Who am i more worried about theft without recourse?

Well aint you the lucky one - it's 0 x 2 for me!:bleh::lol:

[mossy1200]

nooooohoohohoooo.
The 'law of the land' has FUKEN NOTHING to do with parliament. The law of the land binds everyone equally.
LEGISLATION is the shit parliament cranks out, its company policy, but i aint an employee.

You might be happy with mob rule, but i dont accept it. I dont grant you jurisdiction over me.

Funny enough, total number of times ive had my house done over by 'criminal gangs' and my shit taken: 0.
Number of times the police have forcibly entered my private property and taken my shit: 3.
So. Who am i more worried about theft without recourse?

Ive had about $300 in fines in 20years.

One bike stolen and my work van broken into 3 times.

Idd rather double my $300 hire purchase for increased fuz protection and zero burglaries. Im correct in assuming my $300 was well spent?

[Akzle]

Ive had about $300 in fines in 20years.

One bike stolen and my work van broken into 3 times.

Idd rather double my $300 hire purchase for increased fuz protection and zero burglaries. Im correct in assuming my $300 was well spent?

so far theres no evidence that police reduce crime at all.

But this wasnt supposd to be a cop bash thread. Just an injustice overlording dictator state one.

[skippa1]

Yea well I'll skip over the speed scam as that's a massive extortionist scam in itself & will waste many a server space on it's own, but the whole infringement/fine system in itself is an extortion you in no way under NZ law have a responsibility to pay it doing so is an admission of guilt, you don't have to prove your innocence under law it is upto the Gang accusing you to prove your guilt but this is not how the system of corruption works it instead they extort that money from you without prove of guilt without conviction without legal right. most simply pay because fighting it has been made hard to a point it's not worth it, even just missing half a day of work to prove the default is too much

You must be one unlucky prick or just kiddin yourself. I have only had fines imposed for things I am guilty of.........

[unstuck]

:rolleyes:

Bit like all butchers are pricks if one of them gives you one less sausage.:devil2

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qkfwgoQTyrA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[98tls]

Wow this is different eh a thread devoted to ranting about cops:yawn:

[Scuba_Steve]

You must be one unlucky prick or just kiddin yourself. I have only had fines imposed for things I am guilty of.........

Unlucky (or marked) But I've had many I'm not guilty of incl 2 current for vehicle licences which I have NZTA licence certs showing my innocence, will the Police accept them? not at all, why would they, they can't make moneys that way.
But regardless of innocence the way the whole thing is run is extortion & illegal under law

[Akzle]

You must be one unlucky prick or just kiddin yourself. I have only had fines imposed for things I am guilty of.........

mens rea. The jewstice system thanks you for propping them up. And the timeshares in the bahamas. And the launch. And the third batch in matakana. And the new bmw. And...

[skippa1]

Unlucky (or marked) But I've had many I'm not guilty of incl 2 current for vehicle licences which I have NZTA licence certs showing my innocence, will the Police accept them? not at all, why would they, they can't make moneys that way.
But regardless of innocence the way the whole thing is run is extortion & illegal under law

Theres more to that story than arsehole cops trying to extort money out of you any way they can........:blink:

[skippa1]

mens rea. The jewstice system thanks you for propping them up. And the timeshares in the bahamas. And the launch. And the third batch in matakana. And the new bmw. And...
They're welcome :shifty:

[scumdog]

But regardless of innocence the way the whole thing is run is extortion & illegal under law

Only if you're one of lifes losers....don't buy any Lotto tickets - you may be disappointed.

[Akzle]

They're welcome :shifty:

and i thank you. For my benny, so i can buy smokes and booze and afford the lawyer when im in court against the mongrel bitch mother of my DPBs for smaking her bitch mouf.
And fuel for my cuzziez holden coz its da fastest getaway car doing the burgs...

[Akzle]

Only if you're one of lifes losers....don't by any Lotto tickets - you may be disappointed.

nono. Its unlawful.
Legal. But unlawful.
You should hang yourself.

[98tls]

and i thank you. For my benny, so i can buy smokes and booze and afford the lawyer when im in court against the mongrel bitch mother of my DPBs for smaking her bitch mouf.
And fuel for my cuzziez holden coz its da fastest getaway car doing the burgs...

:facepalm:Legal aid fella.....

[Scuba_Steve]

Only if you're one of lifes losers....don't buy any Lotto tickets - you may be disappointed.

https://d1ij7zv8zivhs3.cloudfront.net/assets/2495145/view_large/Boxxy_Trollin.jpg?1289655011

[Akzle]

:facepalm:Legal aid fella.....

yeah g unit.

(whodya think pays those cnuttys?)

[300weatherby]

We live in a democracy, more or less,and the laws are generally intended to protect civilized society that live within them. We mostly know what those laws cover, weather we agree with them or not. Because most civilized people understand and consider the consequences of their actions, they do not break the law and have no consequences.

In fact, the average citizen is disadvantaged because the law representation in our midst (police), day in day out, is undermanned, under resourced and courts trouble with the anti police police ( who need to justify their very existance by carrying out successfull witch hunts against enough police officers to prove they are needed) if they are anything but squeaky clean politically correct.

The average citizen is futher disadvantaged by the court system that chooses to ignore the safety and wellbeing of it's lawfull citizens by applying weak law based penalties against criminals, both white collar and gang and affiliate type scum. The court/legal system in NZ does not dispence JUSTICE, only the law.

That "thin blue line" is all that stops total anarchy and the end of civilization, as we currently know it. The gang scum would murder, rape, assault and steal without penalty other than if they crossed another bigger gang. We would all have to carry guns at all times and kill anybody we considered to be a threat. Society would revert to feudalism, we would live in armed groups and be back in the dark ages.

Our police may not be perfect, but the vast majority of them carry our right and ability to live as civilized people, in their pockets every day they go to work.

Gangs however, deal in rape, murder, extortion, Chinese supplied drugs, girls, and more. THEY, not the police, deserve our contempt, funnily enough it is our laws, that allow them to proliferate and operate as they do. Because, without the law, people like me, would pick up our guns, and eliminate the problem. Our laws protect them, despite what they are, and don't they know it. I obey our laws even when I dissagree with them because it ( the law) is our only option to have a civilized life on equal terms with everyone else.

I have jumped in and helped in situations turned violent against police officers before now, and wouldn't hesitate in the future. Those that would bang on about the "blue gang" or how they don't need them, would change opinion fast if the boys in blue one day weren't there. I have meet cops I cosidered to be arseholes of enormity, but sometimes it is the job itself that makes them that way, and they are in the minority.:done:

[sinfull]

We live in a democracy, more or less,and the laws are generally intended to protect civilized society that live within them. We mostly know what those laws cover, weather we agree with them or not. Because most civilized people understand and consider the consequences of their actions, they do not break the law and have no consequences.

In fact, the average citizen is disadvantaged because the law representation in our midst (police), day in day out, is undermanned, under resourced and courts trouble with the anti police police ( who need to justify their very existance by carrying out successfull witch hunts against enough police officers to prove they are needed) if they are anything but squeaky clean politically correct.

The average citizen is futher disadvantaged by the court system that chooses to ignore the safety and wellbeing of it's lawfull citizens by applying weak law based penalties against criminals, both white collar and gang and affiliate type scum. The court/legal system in NZ does not dispence JUSTICE, only the law.

That "thin blue line" is all that stops total anarchy and the end of civilization, as we currently know it. The gang scum would murder, rape, assault and steal without penalty other than if they crossed another bigger gang. We would all have to carry guns at all times and kill anybody we considered to be a threat. Society would revert to feudalism, we would live in armed groups and be back in the dark ages.

Our police may not be perfect, but the vast majority of them carry our right and ability to live as civilized people, in their pockets every day they go to work.

Gangs however, deal in rape, murder, extortion, Chinese supplied drugs, girls, and more. THEY, not the police, deserve our contempt, funnily enough it is our laws, that allow them to proliferate and operate as they do. Because, without the law, people like me, would pick up our guns, and eliminate the problem. Our laws protect them, despite what they are, and don't they know it. I obey our laws even when I dissagree with them because it ( the law) is our only option to have a civilized life on equal terms with everyone else.

I have jumped in and helped in situations turned violent against police officers before now, and wouldn't hesitate in the future. Those that would bang on about the "blue gang" or how they don't need them, would change opinion fast if the boys in blue one day weren't there. I have meet cops I cosidered to be arseholes of enormity, but sometimes it is the job itself that makes them that way, and they are in the minority.:done:

And them that make the rules are taking your mentality and running with it, reducing our freedoms for the sake of democracy !
Fear mongering the fuck out of you and me !
The gangs are no worse..... and i dare say less intimidating than they were 30 yrs ago, but all of a sudden they need to be oppressed, Yeah ? You agree, because the media and your ever vigilant oppressor says they need to be !

And another little bit of freedom is taken !

[The Reibz]

Support your local 1% MC

[Berries]

I think patches are a good idea
This does disturb me.

How the fuck will I give up smoking now?

[Ulsterkiwi]

nooooohoohohoooo.
The 'law of the land' has FUKEN NOTHING to do with parliament. The law of the land binds everyone equally.
LEGISLATION is the shit parliament cranks out, its company policy, but i aint an employee.

You might be happy with mob rule, but i dont accept it. I dont grant you jurisdiction over me.

Funny enough, total number of times ive had my house done over by 'criminal gangs' and my shit taken: 0.
Number of times the police have forcibly entered my private property and taken my shit: 3.
So. Who am i more worried about theft without recourse?

legislation is what determines the laws on the statute books, MPs are otherwise known as lawmakers, how are the two seperate? Do I like every law? of course not! Can I decide which I adhere to and those I do not? Sure, its called being a criminal, those who break the law are lawbreakers, criminals. Semantics I know but there you have it. In theory the police enforce the law, it isnt supposed to matter whether they like it or not. You would be right however to say it doesnt always work like that in practice. The idea behind democracy is that everyone has a voice, its not perfect but what do you suggest? a national referendum every time a decision needs to be made? Mobs do not answer to reason or logic, by definition those making up mobs do not think for themselves or apply any moral or ethical thinking to their actions, nor (most importantly) do they take any responsibility for their actions. I have seen what mobs can do. Here is the problem, lack of responsibilty for actions. Like I said before, if you do not like the laws, change your lawmakers and make it plain to them what it is you do want. Take responsibility, dont sit on the fringes and bitch.
I respect your desire to decide who has authority over you, that is your right, but if you want to be part of a society where you can work, trade, make use of goods and services, get help when needed and offer your goods and services for remuneration then you must sumbit to SOME authority. Every culture has this, someone has to be in charge, but being in charge means you have responsibility for those you are in charge of, if you dont do a good job, some other bugger will take your place. tough titties.
If you choose to opt out thats fine, just dont expect to get anything from the society and structures you hold in contempt.

[Fastmark]

I find it really hard to believe that this or any government in NZ or the police have any desire to oppress anyone. I grew up in a place where holding the "wrong" political beliefs meant you could disappear never to be seen again or be shot or blown up on the way to work. I find it amazing when those in my adopted country consider the NZ state and its organisations in any way oppressive. It is only the freedom we enjoy here that allows us the cushion of such thinking.[/QUOTE]

Hit the nail on the head there my man. Like you I am fresh off the boat from Pommieland (been here 4 years) and the freedom given here is way ahead of the CCTV up your nose everywhere you go UK. Given that the UK also has gangs, Hells Angels etc. you very rarely here about them, only when its a slow news day and some old grandma got a fright when a leather clad biker (therefore must be a Hells Angel) looked at her in a funny way.

Now I ride a bike because I love riding a bike, not because I can use it as a form of intimidation by riding like a complete twat ignoring any semblance of road courtesy, they'll cut up another bike rider as much as anyone else, based on personal experience, just because of who they are.

There I feel better now

[scissorhands]

I saw some Harleys and some cops cars at the pub one day:gob:

[unstuck]

I saw some Harleys and some cops cars at the pub one day:gob:

I saw a cop doing a burnout on his harley outside the pub one day.:gob:

[willytheekid]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9015257/Cop-helps-man-who-threatened-to-harm-him
...some fucked in the head kid ever threatened to burn my family & home like that...a job sure as shit isn't what I'd be giving him:oi-grr:

...and yet our local Chch popo are trying to help this screw up turn his life around...go figure!

such a gang mentality! :killingme

[Murray]

Number of times the police have forcibly entered my private property and taken my shit: 3.


Just to highlight the problem please advise what "shit" they took???

[Banditbandit]

I have a question. If we accept not all gang members are bad people (they are just people after all) is there anything the gangs can do to change how they are perceived or does the remainder of non-gang society just have to suck it up and not have their fears or concerns addressed?

Who says gangs want to change ??? They trade on the image they have created ...


I have a question, which guy, who may or may not come and stand next to my daughter, while she's standing at say a bus stop, is the gang member who has to rape to earn his patch and which is not ?

Who says rape is an entrrey requirement??? The police claim it is - some members may say it is - but are they telling the truth or are they hyping their image ??? It's in their own interest to hype their image

Now, I'm not claimingt all members are innocent - I know two who committed rape to go inside so they could be with the president who had just been sent down ... but that was not to earn their patch ... they were senior memebrs by then (Nomads)

Yes, some of them aere hard nasty bastards I wouldn't be in the same room with - others are perfectly OK and basically normal if rebellious ... and a litle crazy

One of my friends was a prospect who was rebuilding his bike .. the cub said "If you love you bike we'll give you a patch" He said "I do love my bike" The club said "Prove it - fuck your bike." So he put his dick through the steering head and had an orgasm in front of the club - they gave him his patch ...


which is exactly the kind of fear I was meaning, we are told this is what is required for people to get into gangs, yet the gangs say thats bull and they arent really bad and the government and the police are out to get them and its not fair and so on and so on......


Yes - exactly. Some gangs are really bad - and attract psychos, sociopaths and psychopaths ... especially the street gangs - and the exiles from the street gangs such as the Nomads (who basically don't exist any more) and MM Notorious ...

There is a range amongst the biker clubs - the older ones are OK (usually) but the newer ones such as The Road Knights - are a pain in the arse ... but hey all get tarred with the same brush ...



My question rephrased would be "what are the gangs going to do to change how they are perceived given they are not perceived in a good way?"

Why would they want to change ??? They see themselves as outlaws .. a while ago the Government was going to outlaw the clubs - I thought Fuck me ... the Governmetn is going to legitimize the status the clubs already claim !!! How ironic !!!

[unstuck]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9015257/Cop-helps-man-who-threatened-to-harm-him
...some fucked in the head kid ever threatened to burn my family & home like that...a job sure as shit isn't what I'd be giving him:oi-grr:

...and yet our local Chch popo are trying to help this screw up turn his life around...go figure!

such a gang mentality! :killingme

Good to see some positivity amongst all the negativity. Cheers willy.:niceone::Punk::Punk:

[Akzle]

Just to highlight the problem please advise what "shit" they took???

beyond the scope or point of this thread.
The problem highlighted isthey infringed against their own legislation to do it.

[unstuck]

Bastards took all my weed, Im sure they made it into tinnys and were selling it to the dealers they leave alone.:2thumbsup

[scissorhands]

Bastards took all my weed, Im sure they made it into tinnys and were selling it to the dealers they leave alone.:2thumbsup

was it good shit? maybe they kept it for themselves....

[unstuck]

was it good shit? maybe they kept it for themselves....

Only ever grew good shit.:2thumbsup

I got caught coming back from port waikato years ago with weed on me, and on the way from the police station in pukekohe to the courthouse in papakura the next day, the cop who was driving said that was some good shit I had and that him and his missus had to smoke it through a water bong. The bastards.:lol::lol:

[Akzle]

legislation is what determines the laws on the statute books, MPs are otherwise known as lawmakers, how are the two seperate?
without getting to "god" on it, LAW is god's law. LAW cannot be broken. the LAWs of physics, the LAWs of nature. like i sais, the law binds all men equally, it does not discriminate rich or poor, you wont "get off on a techniciality".

legislation/statute is regulatory "law" and, if you read any legislation, you'll find it is NOT "law" but is "given the force of law"


Do I like every law? of course not! Can I decide which I adhere to and those I do not? Sure, its called being a criminal,
further demonstrating your ignorance of law. to be a criminal, a crime must have been committed, for a crime to have been committed, there needs to be an injured party.

MOST bullshit that goes through court, including but maybe especially traffic infringements, are actually civil cases.

n theory the police enforce the law, it isnt supposed to matter whether they like it or not. You would be right however to say it doesnt always work like that in practice.


The idea behind democracy is that everyone has a voice, its not perfect but what do you suggest? a national referendum every time a decision needs to be made? a) that would be better, refer swiss democracy. b) no, i suggest an abcense of governance. that everyone basically lives by "the law", which has nothing to do with travelling at 101km an hour.
honor the 10 commandments, the 7 pillars, whatever. it's written in every faith, and, i believe, in every human's DNA. but basically comes down to :do no harm, don't lie
if you can think of any more laws that are required, i'd be interested to know.


Mobs do not answer to reason or logic, by definition those making up mobs do not think for themselves or apply any moral or ethical thinking to their actions, nor (most importantly) do they take any responsibility for their actions. I have seen what mobs can do. Here is the problem, lack of responsibilty for actions.
so, you've just described the situation....


Like I said before, if you do not like the laws, change your lawmakers and make it plain to them what it is you do want. Take responsibility, dont sit on the fringes and bitch.
i'm not on any fringe. i honor only one lawmaker, and that is the maker of law, and i don't need or want to change those laws (although i could do with a respite from gravity every now and then)
i do not honor not any of legislature. so unless you're acting on the authority or god, or that i've consented to it, any harm you do against me is unlawful, and illegal (under the contract law system nz suffers) which includes enforcing other (lower) court's "law" on me...
i take responsibility for everything i do, or fail to do, which in no way has me accountable under any jurisdiction but the highest's.


but if you want to be part of a society where you can work, trade, make use of goods and services, get help when needed and offer your goods and services for remuneration then you must sumbit to SOME authority.
a) i don't want to be part of "nz society" so next time you're having a society meeting, let them know eh?
b) why? is a workman not worthy of his hire? why should that impose any responsibility or onus on him beyond completing the work/trade, and accepting due consideration therefor?, why should he be levied or taxed for his time, from an absent third party in no-way contributing to the work?
why mann?!


but being in charge means you have responsibility for those you are in charge of,
and this is probably one of "white society's" biggest failings. there is no responsibility, at the top or anywhere else. people elect to have other people make decisions for them, so they don't have to take responsibility and can sit at home pissing and moaning about the government.


If you choose to opt out thats fine, just dont expect to get anything from the society and structures you hold in contempt.
okay, i do choose, thanks very much, so, err, where do i sign so that your society will leave me the fuck alone?


the laws are generally intended to protect civilized society that live within them. failing number 1: the legislation does not grant anyone any more rights than they had before the legislation was written. 2: the laws whatever you may believe their intent, do not protect anyone. refer "getting off on a technicality", it is my firmest belief that the statute exists for the purpose of seemingly voluntary enslavement.


We mostly know what those laws cover, weather we agree with them or not. Because most civilized people understand and consider the consequences of their actions, they do not break the law and have no consequences.
sooooo... everyone who is falsely charged, imprisoned etc..... i sense a "greater good" argument coming on.
it's not a matter of "civilisation" how does my travelling 180km and hour affect anyone?... how does my smoking a fat doobie affect anyone? or having excess breath alcohol in public? i sense a "what if...." coming on.


In fact, the average citizen is disadvantaged because the law representation in our midst (police), day in day out, is undermanned, under resourced and courts trouble with the anti police police ( who need to justify their very existance by carrying out successfull witch hunts against enough police officers to prove they are needed) if they are anything but squeaky clean politically correct.
can you point to one -just one- place where they have no police? and then can you tell me the "crime statistics" for that place. so far it seems there's a direct correlation between having police, and having crime.


The court/legal system in NZ does not dispence JUSTICE, only the law.
on this at least we can agree.


That "thin blue line" is all that stops total anarchy and the end of civilization, as we currently know it. The gang scum would murder, rape, assault and steal without penalty other than if they crossed another bigger gang. We would all have to carry guns at all times and kill anybody we considered to be a threat. Society would revert to feudalism, we would live in armed groups and be back in the dark ages.
what a sad life you lead.
do you really believe that is what would happen? a sad and telling indictment on your fellow man...


Our police may not be perfect, but the vast majority of them carry our right and ability to live as civilized people, in their pockets every day they go to work.
no, i don't reckon. the police have never -ever- helped me or anyone i know. car crashes, burglaries, lost/stolen property, etc etc etc. not once.


Gangs however, deal in rape, murder, extortion, Chinese supplied drugs, girls, and more. THEY, not the police, deserve our contempt,
i guess i find it hard to contempt gangs, given that they've never done me any harm, they dont try telling me how to live, or drive, they don't threaten to lock me up if i dont want to associate with them, they've never tried stealing (seizing) my property while we "discuss" the rightness of my paying them some arbitrary amount to drive when and where i like.
no, on the whole, the "criminal" gangs haven't done me any harm.


without the law, people like me, would pick up our guns, and eliminate the problem. Our laws protect them, despite what they are,
you say that like it's a good thing. surely you dishing out some "natural justice" would be a far more effective deterrent than the current, hrm?
(in fact, in a state in the us where they made it mandatory for every householder to keep a firearm, burglaries decreased 60% the following year, go figure)


I obey our laws even when I dissagree with them because it ( the law) is our only option to have a civilized life on equal terms with everyone else.
again, a sad indictment on your view of your neighbour and brother-man.
we're on equal terms are we? so i'm entitled to your house? you're entitled to my wife? i can have your pay? you can have my work?
no mate, while you may tout "equality" as being of "law", it isn't.
you're fucking glad you weren't born black, and you're probably slightly miffed you weren't born a rothschild, you want the plane, and the cars and shit, and while you, good middle class subject, may have "equal" opportunity to achieve those things, it's going to be a shitload harder for you to get em, cos you aint born a rich jew.
the current system supports the caste, supports the gap between rich and poor, and supports the rich fullstop.
in the same way that a retard will never be a CEO, women rarely are, and blacks, well, who gives a fuck, there is no equality under the current system.


Those that would bang on about the "blue gang" or how they don't need them, would change opinion fast if the boys in blue one day weren't there.
no the fuck i wouldn't. because i don't expect them to be, i don't expect they're going to catch criminals, i don't expect they're going to save lives, or reduce road fatalities, i don't expect ANYTHING, from the PO, and so far, i've got less than what i expect. so they're scoring in the negative.

[Maha]

''If we accept not all gang members are bad people''

Fully inducted ones are, gang patches are not handed out for attending school gala's as clown boy.
I had a cousin in Napier that use to ride with a gang in the 70's, aunty would say '' ohhh Carl is nice boy, he gave me brand new TV the other day'' come on aunty, receiving stolen goods is against the law :rolleyes:
Be it petty theft or a crime of the worst kind, gang members are not picky, some are just more ruthless than others.

Prospects and conforming wanna be's are just low self esteemed bitches willing to suck cock to get a patch.

[unstuck]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6IJCFc_qkHw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:devil2::devil2:

[Maha]

Just to highlight the problem please advise what "shit" they took???

Not a lot can be taken from a Caravan, maybe some sheets? :confused:

[Akzle]

Not a lot can be taken from a Caravan, maybe some sheets? :confused:

you need a fuken hobby. Thats so last month.

Ive had and lost/given away more than you ever will.

[Maha]

you need a fuken hobby. Thats so last month.

Ive had and lost/given away more than you ever will.

Really? ;) Your generalisations at times need winding in...and shit.

[scumdog]

you need a fuken hobby. Thats so last month.

Ive had and lost/given away more than you ever will.

Your brain does not count...:yawn:

[Ulsterkiwi]

LAW cannot be broken. the LAWs of physics, the LAWs of nature.
ok, I dont have exclusive rights on ignorance, Newtonian laws were proven time and time again for centuries, the small matter of relativity came along and we find these laws don't work any more so a new set of theories and models was need to explain things. Ask any actual physicist.
I am afraid that the concept of the laws of nature is a bit old too, they are more like guidelines, philosophies, so a wee bit hard to say they cannot be broken. Its a bit like saying the sun will always rise in the morning. One it doesnt rise, it comes into our limited view, two a day will come when it won't.
I think to base your argument on the idea there are immutable truths is tenuous at best, particularly if the odd exception creeps in.


although i could do with a respite from gravity every now and then

with you on this one, especially when the tar seal is wet. :-)


i do not honor not any of legislature. so unless you're acting on the authority or god, or that i've consented to it, any harm you do against me is unlawful, and illegal (under the contract law system nz suffers) which includes enforcing other (lower) court's "law" on me...
i take responsibility for everything i do, or fail to do, which in no way has me accountable under any jurisdiction but the highest's.

fair enough, that leaves you the final arbiter at all times, pretty shit if you do something which harms someone else and you arbitrarily decide it didn't. so are you God?



a) i don't want to be part of "nz society" so next time you're having a society meeting, let them know eh?

will do, can I have your bike then? seeing as how you won't be contributing to the road network any more like the rest of society you won't be needing it.



b) why? is a workman not worthy of his hire? why should that impose any responsibility or onus on him beyond completing the work/trade, and accepting due consideration therefor?, why should he be levied or taxed for his time, from an absent third party in no-way contributing to the work?
why mann?!

of course he is, fair wage for a fair days work, I can go socialist for a bit. Taxes? I feel for you, I really do. Ok lets get rid of taxes, who needs roads, hospitals, schools, people to clean our shit up, libraries, the arts, research and development, more people to clean our shit up....


and this is probably one of "white society's" biggest failings. there is no responsibility, at the top or anywhere else. people elect to have other people make decisions for them, so they don't have to take responsibility and can sit at home pissing and moaning about the government.


are you going to play the race card? how disappointing. I actually thought you were being rational and constructing a good argument there.


okay, i do choose, thanks very much, so, err, where do i sign so that your society will leave me the fuck alone?

you seemed to infer that I think you need my permission. Of course not, you are are your own boss. You have opted out of society, you neither submit to nor recognise its authority. That is your right. I didn't realise I was bothering you.


it's not a matter of "civilisation" how does my travelling 180km and hour affect anyone?... how does my smoking a fat doobie affect anyone? or having excess breath alcohol in public? i sense a "what if...." coming on.

and you would be right. for clarity's sake, where do you propose to travel at 180kph? on your own land? how is it yours? oh yes, legislation will give you the legal right to assert what is yours and no other buggers, so they should leave you alone. It couldn't be on a public road, you opted out remember? What about the event where travelling at 180kph you kill someone? No really, what happens then? Its a fair question. You said you take responsibility for all your actions. Its hypothetical but indulge me.


The court/legal system in NZ does not dispence JUSTICE, only the law.
on this at least we can agree.

cant argue with you here. imperfect system.


no, i don't reckon. the police have never -ever- helped me or anyone i know. car crashes, burglaries, lost/stolen property, etc etc etc. not once.

but my experience is very different and I am not alone. Have I always been happy with my interactions with the police? of course not. My home was trashed and burgled twice, my car stolen, my car broken into, I was driven into by a drunk, I was assaulted at work by a man I was treating for cancer, I could go on. At times I had a good outcome, often I did not. Does my experience prove the police dont help anyone, ever, uhm...no. So does your opting out give you the right to deny my experience? I thought equality was a good thing? except when it doesn't fit your paradigm perhaps?



i guess i find it hard to contempt gangs, given that they've never done me any harm, they dont try telling me how to live, or drive, they don't threaten to lock me up if i dont want to associate with them, they've never tried stealing (seizing) my property while we "discuss" the rightness of my paying them some arbitrary amount to drive when and where i like.
no, on the whole, the "criminal" gangs haven't done me any harm.

I respect your aspiration to opt out from a society you struggle with, I really really do. The evidence does show that these gangs do immeasurable harm. However because you personally were not affected by it, that doesn't matter? That seems a little lacking in humanity to me.


we're on equal terms are we? so i'm entitled to your house? you're entitled to my wife? i can have your pay? you can have my work?
no mate, while you may tout "equality" as being of "law", it isn't.
you're fucking glad you weren't born black, and you're probably slightly miffed you weren't born a rothschild, you want the plane, and the cars and shit, and while you, good middle class subject, may have "equal" opportunity to achieve those things, it's going to be a shitload harder for you to get em, cos you aint born a rich jew.
the current system supports the caste, supports the gap between rich and poor, and supports the rich fullstop.
in the same way that a retard will never be a CEO, women rarely are, and blacks, well, who gives a fuck, there is no equality under the current system.

again disappointing. you can obviously think rationally. why resort to twisting things? Since when does equality under the law mean entitlement to what belongs to others? What this guy was trying to express was the legal system aims to judge everyone by the same standards, you know that is what he meant....don't you? If not I think you are the sad one. If we are not equal under the law then why do I hear about policemen in court for breaking the law? Is everyone who does wrong punished by the law? hell no. Do we stop trying? hell no!
what is wrong with aspiring to something? you aspire to being left alone. I know NZ is not perfect but here I genuinely believe that what I aspire to I can attain and that will be through merit. Where I grew up, it was all about who my family was, or was not for that matter, or what my religion was or my politics. I know where I want to be.


Not a lot can be taken from a Caravan, maybe some sheets?

if that's a joke it isn't very funny

[300weatherby]

And them that make the rules are taking your mentality and running with it, reducing our freedoms for the sake of democracy !
Fear mongering the fuck out of you and me !
The gangs are no worse..... and i dare say less intimidating than they were 30 yrs ago, but all of a sudden they need to be oppressed, Yeah ? You agree, because the media and your ever vigilant oppressor says they need to be !

And another little bit of freedom is taken !

Fuck yes!!!!!

Take away my freedom to rape your wife cause i feel like it.
Take away my freedom to sell P to your 11 year old daughter at lunchtime.
Take away my freedom to turn her into a hooker once I have her addicted.
Take away my freedom to smash your face in and leave you brain damaged cause" I'm a hard fucker".
Take away my freedom to take your car joyriding then sell it for parts.
Take away my freedom to smash my way into your house and steal all that you own.

God I feel so deprived at the thought of all those freedoms being taken away from me!!!!:eek5:

[BMWST?]

Unlucky (or marked) But I've had many I'm not guilty of incl 2 current for vehicle licences which I have NZTA licence certs showing my innocence, will the Police accept them? not at all, why would they, they can't make moneys that way.
But regardless of innocence the way the whole thing is run is extortion & illegal under law

its not the police you have to convince,the are merely the messengers.You need to produce your arguments to a judge and impress upon him that the process has cost you $x dollars and was unwarranted.If you elect not to do this how can you say the system is one of corruption and extortion

[Coldrider]

yerp (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2819584/Gang-patches-banned)

it seems only government appointed thugs are acceptable because "the other gangs intimidate people to enforce their ideology"
:nono:
It's my party and I'll cry if I want to.....

[Akzle]

Fuck yes!!!!!

Take away my freedom to rape your wife cause i feel like it.
Take away my freedom to sell P to your 11 year old daughter at lunchtime.
Take away my freedom to turn her into a hooker once I have her addicted.
Take away my freedom to smash your face in and leave you brain damaged cause" I'm a hard fucker".
Take away my freedom to take your car joyriding then sell it for parts.
Take away my freedom to smash my way into your house and steal all that you own.

God I feel so deprived at the thought of all those freedoms being taken away from me!!!!:eek5:

when ever, in any kind of 'society' have those been your freedoms.
God is the freedom that allows other freedoms to exist.
If youre infringing someone elses freedom, youre doing wrong, and you know it.

@other guy. More when i get to a keyboard.

[Coldrider]

God is the freedom that allows other freedoms to exist.
what Iwi is GOD in?

[Akzle]

its not the police you have to convince,the are merely the messengers.You need to produce your arguments to a judge and impress upon him that the process has cost you $x dollars and was unwarranted.If you elect not to do this how can you say the system is one of corruption and extortion

do you have any idea how expensive and petty that process is?
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Local bob say so is not proof.

Having been in the system several times, i can safely say its corrupt and extortionate. What experience do you have, to back up your view?

[Akzle]

what Iwi is GOD in?

mine.

And yours, if you let it.
Jah. I and I.

[Coldrider]

ah Bobs mate.

[scissorhands]

Gangs are part of any society, and come in many shapes and sizes.

The legal ones, including big pharma, multinationals like Macdonalds, Coke, google etc

are causing you more harm each and every day
than a bunch of stoned or fried homies with a box of baggies
who happen to be part of the legal bigger picture[in disguise]

you can say no to baggies
you cant say no to vaccines
you can say no to hookers
you cant say no to your kids as they cry out for marketed junk food
you cant say no to google
you cant say no to advertising
you cant say no to fluoride or chlorinated water
you cant say no to your tax dollars being spent on harmful activities

patched gangsters, are like big time wrestling for the masses
an externalised object de' hatred
diverting your gaze from the legal gangs
who really are selling bad shit to your kids

many many many more peeps die from from obesity, food related illness and pharma harm than illegal drug use
more money is stolen from you everyday by legal entities

[sinfull]

Fuck yes!!!!!

Take away my freedom to rape your wife cause i feel like it.
Take away my freedom to sell P to your 11 year old daughter at lunchtime.
Take away my freedom to turn her into a hooker once I have her addicted.
Take away my freedom to smash your face in and leave you brain damaged cause" I'm a hard fucker".
Take away my freedom to take your car joyriding then sell it for parts.
Take away my freedom to smash my way into your house and steal all that you own.

God I feel so deprived at the thought of all those freedoms being taken away from me!!!!:eek5:
Take away !
Then see what happens !

Edit : no actually, you're a fucking clown ! What, if any fuckin bylaw is going to stop the fuckers that are going to do the above shit, from doing so ?
Get real, the only fucker that loses anything in Law changes are the fuckin law abiding persons

I say again !!! Clown !

[Berries]

you cant say no to your kids as they cry out for marketed junk food

you cant say no to advertising
Bollocks. Maybe you can't, but then over the last few weeks you do seem to have lost the plot on here.



you can't say no to hookers
Ok, I agree with you there. Nice new avatar btw.

[Scuba_Steve]

its not the police you have to convince,the are merely the messengers.You need to produce your arguments to a judge and impress upon him that the process has cost you $x dollars and was unwarranted.If you elect not to do this how can you say the system is one of corruption and extortion

Having to do so in itself shows how corrupt & extortionist the system is
See below


do you have any idea how expensive and petty that process is?
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Local bob say so is not proof.

Having been in the system several times, i can safely say its corrupt and extortionate. What experience do you have, to back up your view?

[mashman]

The evidence does show that these gangs do immeasurable harm. However because you personally were not affected by it, that doesn't matter? That seems a little lacking in humanity to me.

Sounds like a great description of society to me... 'cept society has legalised the immeasurable harm they inflict to ease the guilt of their members.

[BMWST?]

do you have any idea how expensive and petty that process is?
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Local bob say so is not proof.

Having been in the system several times, i can safely say its corrupt and extortionate. What experience do you have, to back up your view?

Only a couple of traffic infringements


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[T.W.R]

This is a good old quote; don't know who said it though

"Society Prepares the Crime, The Criminal Commits it"