Juries - how are they made up?

[Mom]

As the title says. I read something just before that has set a light bulb off in my mind. I love/hate it when that happens. It gets me thinking!

How are juries made up?

How do you get off juries when called up?

Should we be able to "get out of" jury duty?

Should the pay be better? Obviously we should get the same money on a jury as we would when working.

Should we even care? I think we should!

Apologies for the cross quote but...



There is a real concern among those who study such things (jurisprudence) that modern juries are no longer representative of society because as you say, those who serve tend not to be full time workers.

However from a defence point of view this is all good - these are also the people who are likely to acquit.


How do you think we can address this? There are more of us working than not surely? I have never given this too much thought, but of course! How blindingly obvious! This needs discussion.

I have never been on a jury, despite living here for the last 53 years. How do you even get selected to appear?

This should be fun!

[wickle]

why is it twelve members?

[Mom]

why is it twelve members?

Good question!

[awa355]

why is it twelve members?

eight to agree, four to go along with the first eight, on account of it getting late and do not want to have to come back the next day. :no:

[phill-k]

How do you get off juries when called up?


You will have to attend but if selected and the case doesn't look like its going to be entertaining, as you walk up to the jury box, say something to the prosecutor like "Good BBQ Friday mate say thanks to the wife" loud enough that the defence council hear it, guaranteed to have you challenged:Police:.

Me all I have to do is walk towards the jury box and I'm challenged by the prosecutor anyway has something to do with my occupation apparently<_<.

[husaberg]

Jury's are drawn at off the electoral role they are usually drawn from a drawn from a pool at each election and then drawn again as required.
So that one way to get out of service. Get off the electoral role
You can get out of it if it is a hardship for you or your employer to attend ie special skills small team or self employed.
you can get out of it if you have a disability that affects your ability to serve ie deaf blind etc.
you can get out of it if you live to far away.30 or was it 50km
you can get out of it if you eyeball the accused and do a slit throat gesture.(make sure the accused lawyer sees but not the prosecution or the judge)
You can get out of it if you know the defendants or the witnesses and that way affect your judgement.

The money for jury service is also crap.........

No you shouldn't get out of service cause they tend to end up stacked with the unemployed and pensioners etc.
what jury's need is middle aged rednecks not afraid to hang em high....(assuming they are guilty i guess)

[skippa1]

As the title says. I read something just before that has set a light bulb off in my mind. I love/hate it when that happens. It gets me thinking!

How are juries made up?

How do you get off juries when called up?

Should we be able to "get out of" jury duty?

Should the pay be better? Obviously we should get the same money on a jury as we would when working.

Should we even care? I think we should!

Apologies for the cross quote but...





How do you think we can address this? There are more of us working than not surely? I have never given this too much thought, but of course! How blindingly obvious! This needs discussion.

I have never been on a jury, despite living here for the last 53 years. How do you even get selected to appear?

This should be fun!
I got off jury duty, had an accident on my bike the day before and could hardly walk. I arrived they asked if I was alright and then sent me home instead. I would rather have done jury duty instead of dropping the bike.....it is a way out though

[BigAl]

Easy to get off a jury simply wear your FTP or KKK tee.;)

[Gremlin]

How are juries made up?
Husaberg has covered this quite well, randomly drawn from the electoral role. A larger pool than required is summoned, some people can be challenged etc, if you're not required you can go home, and you usually have to attend for a couple of days in a row. Bad luck if you get drawn for a multi-week murder case.


How do you get off juries when called up?
From memory, the details of how to be excused are noted in the documents you receive. You have to write in, and they consider case by case. The letter confirming you're excused basically says, you're excused, but you could be summoned in the future.


Should we be able to "get out of" jury duty?
Yes, but I actually don't believe we should have a jury system in the first place. I don't ask my clients to fix technical problems, so why are the public expected to be able to rule on a case? A panel of judges (3 or 5, 7 in major cases) would suffice, they aren't swayed by emotion etc. It's also highly predictable that those being excused are the ones the courts actually want, and yes, the jury can end up being a panel of unemployeds or pensioners etc. Another reason why judges should simply deal with it.

I've only been summoned once, but was excused. As the only network engineer (my boss is also technical), we have SLA's with clients, and their downtime cost is eye watering, so getting excused is pretty easy in my case (and the backup plan is pitching up in leathers - surely they'd object to a biker?). The penalty on us would be ridiculous if we had to sit in court. My phone is on 24/7 for good reason.


Should the pay be better? Obviously we should get the same money on a jury as we would when working.
The system is costing a lot already, plus jury service is considered a service to a community. I don't think businesses can refuse to release you, and I don't think they can count it on your days off?


Should we even care? I think we should!
Again, it should be left to judges.

[1billyboy]

I will be going to check it out on the 2nd of December.:lol:

[Virago]

How are juries made up?

Juries are selected from a random draw of the electoral role. It's like a lottery, some get called every few years, others never get called.

A large number of prospective jurors are called. At the time of jury selection names are randomly called. As you walk to the jury box you can be "challenged" by either defence or prosecution, if this happens you return to the jury pool.


How do you get off juries when called up?

If you can show that jury service will cause extreme hardship or problems, you will be excused. For example, a self-employed person whose business will suffer.


Should we be able to "get out of" jury duty?

As above. You need to show genuine hardship.


Should the pay be better? Obviously we should get the same money on a jury as we would when working.

Most employers will make up the difference between the jury daily allowance, and normal daily pay.

[BMWST?]

the pool of jurors is quite large.You turn up on monday morning and a panel of say 40 is called out at random(ballot),if your name is not called then you go but you may be asked to come again on wednesday or whatever.The panel of 40 is called into the courtroom where you are all seated.When your name is called you stand up and walk towards the jury box.The defence or prosecution can challenge you,if they do you are out.If your bum hits the seat before they challenge you are in.

[Virago]

...The defence or prosecution can challenge you,if they do you are out.If your bum hits the seat before they challenge you are in.

A mate did service a few years back. The defence and prosecution were playing silly buggers, waiting until people were in the act of sitting down before challenging. The judge eventually over-ruled a challenge, and told them to stop pissing about. All part of the farce.

[caspernz]

How do you get off juries when called up?


Display an attitude that is considered non PC. Turn up in your leathers with a freshly shaven head, get challenged and go home :banana:

[BMWST?]

A mate did service a few years back. The defence and prosecution were playing silly buggers, waiting until people were in the act of sitting down before challenging. The judge eventually over-ruled a challenge, and told them to stop pissing about. All part of the farce.

i was on a jury panel once where multiple defendants were all facing the same charge.Dont know how the work but he defendants had so many challenges it was ridiculous

[Kickaha]

Most employers will make up the difference between the jury daily allowance, and normal daily pay.
Our company pays you your normal 8 hor day and the jury duty cheque gets signed over to them

I've been called twice, I didn't get selected for the first and wrote in and was excused for the second

[Swoop]

i was on a jury panel once where multiple defendants were all facing the same charge.Dont know how the work but he defendants had so many challenges it was ridiculous
Each defendant has the same quantity of "challenges", so the cumulative amount looks very large indeed. Watch how a gang trial goes when there are around 10 defendants... you could be there for an hour or so just getting through the challenges!


I'm unsure if there is anything lodged on your electoral roll "availability" for jury service.
I was getting called up every couple of years. After multiple cases and being foreman a couple of times it does become quite entertaining.

People would be surprised what discussions take place in a closed jury room. A LOT more serious consideration of the evidence presented is done than some would care to imagine.

[husaberg]

i was on a jury panel once where multiple defendants were all facing the same charge.Dont know how the work but he defendants had so many challenges it was ridiculous

the challenges are the fun part, watching the lawyers read the cheat sheet after the jurors name is called look the potential jurors up and down Make a judgement call re the profile of the juror they want (or don't want) and wait to see the other lawyers reaction. I can't remember how many challenges each they have 3 or 5, but it is a real game of cat and mouse. At times as soon as a name is called they are immediately challenged, as the Lawyer has red flagged them.

For instance on break and enter/burglary trials the defendants advocates wants young or middle aged males and avoids older females as much as possible.

[Grumph]

A couple of points - yes, drawn from the electoral roll but they are clever enough to use electorates within the 50km radius of court so it's fairly rare now to get off on that ground...

If selected, when you go into the jury room, keep your mouth shut...in my personal experience, first to speak gets the foreman's job....

If you do get selected to attend for service, check your employers attitude....I served in a trial which lasted two weeks and came back to find I'd lost my job....very probably illegal as i pointed out at the time but it made no difference to the prick in question. Not worth trying to sort him out.

[husaberg]

A couple of points - yes, drawn from the electoral roll but they are clever enough to use electorates within the 50km radius of court so it's fairly rare now to get off on that ground...

If selected, when you go into the jury room, keep your mouth shut...in my personal experience, first to speak gets the foreman's job....

If you do get selected to attend for service, check your employers attitude....I served in a trial which lasted two weeks and came back to find I'd lost my job....very probably illegal as i pointed out at the time but it made no difference to the prick in question. Not worth trying to sort him out.

Don't wear a shirt let alone a tie.
But yes keep ya lips sealed in the jury room for a start.
The extreme diversity of the jury panel personality always gives me a giggle.
Also much much different persons interpretation of the evidence presented differs is an eye opener to the uninitiated.

[Flip]

I was on a long jury trial. I was made redundant half way through the trial.

I had been working at the company for 12 years and had a good redundancy package. It would be fair to say the company got no simpathy from the court.

[tigertim20]

be quite a few ways of getting off jury duty I would think. I'd imagine that doing something like,turning up smelling of booze, posibly being sligtly hungover, and dressed like a homeless person / scumbag would probably help you to get off it.

Having said that, I don't understand the 'fuck this I don't want to do it' attitude. I mean, every time we see some young hoon who drives like a cock and kills three people, or a rapist who molests several children, or a repeat drunk driver who has finally killed some-one, we complain about how many of them get off, or get minuscule punishments, yet when we get an opportunity to sit down, and hear ALL the evidence, and play a part in the process, and potentially make a tiny difference, we can't be fucked.

weird.

agreed the pay should be equal to what one gets at work, would make more people more willing to think fuck it, few days off work would be ok, and this could be interesting.

[Gremlin]

agreed the pay should be equal to what one gets at work, would make more people more willing to think fuck it, few days off work would be ok, and this could be interesting.
I'm sure for some it might change things, but the pay isn't my issue. A few days off is not OK, there are issues that have to be resolved which can't be done when I'm sitting in a court room, and yes, I don't see it as my problem either.

[nerrrd]

I was on a jury.

It was a complete waste of three days, an open and shut case where even the judge was making jokes at the defendant's expense. He was caught with chemical residue from some marked bills handed over at a tinnie house and tried to claim it was chalk from when he was fixing a flat tyre on his pushbike in the front yard.

So not a great ad for the system. On the plus side, a chick who I think sang with Strawpeople was on the jury as well?

Took us the minimum time allowable to deliver the verdict. Haven't been called up again since.

Having said that, shouldn't we all see it as our duty to participate? No citizenship without service...or was that from Starship Troopers?

[Akzle]

fuck that shit. Consenting/going would be legitamising the cracker ass kangaroo legal bullshit.

As the saying 'at court your fate rests with 12 people who were too dumb to get out of jury duty'

you shouldnt need payment its your civic duty, pleb.

[husaberg]

Having said that, shouldn't we all see it as our duty to participate? No citizenship without service...or was that from Starship Troopers?

The jury's still out on weather Starship Troopers had a plot. but Denise Richards cleavage sure got my vote:shifty:
i have had to sit through a sexual assault/rape of a minor case. it was a harrowing experience for me and i was sure glad when it was called off on the second day.

[Winston001]

Good thread Mom. Until recently its been easy to get out of jury service and possibly four out of five people do. However the courts are toughening up:

This guy, who I feel a bit sorry for because he appears to be genuine, got 10 days in prison for refusing to serve. To the best of my knowledge he is on bail and waiting the result of an appeal.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8912143/Jail-for-would-be-juror

[Gremlin]

This guy, who I feel a bit sorry for because he appears to be genuine, got 10 days in prison for refusing to serve. To the best of my knowledge he is on bail and waiting the result of an appeal.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8912143/Jail-for-would-be-juror
Received a fine instead. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9103428/Sentence-quashed-Jailed-juror-can-go-free

Was made into an example me thinks.

[Akzle]

Good thread Mom. Until recently its been easy to get out of jury service and possibly four out of five people do. However the courts are toughening up:

This guy, who I feel a bit sorry for because he appears to be genuine, got 10 days in prison for refusing to serve. To the best of my knowledge he is on bail and waiting the result of an appeal.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8912143/Jail-for-would-be-juror

a clearly effective system when you must be forcibly persuaded to participate.

[Gremlin]

Handy link to provide most info on the basics: http://www.justice.govt.nz/services/access-to-justice/jury-service-1

The nuances of profiling etc wouldn't be covered tho :lol:

[Kickaha]

A few days off is not OK, there are issues that have to be resolved which can't be done when I'm sitting in a court room, and yes, I don't see it as my problem either.
So how do you ever get to take holidays if you're that indispensable?

[unstuck]

So whats the deal with criminal convictions and jury duty? Got called up years ago but never went for some reason, think I may of been on codfish island at the time:scratch:.
Surely there must be times when previous history must rule a person out.?

[Swoop]

Don't wear a shirt let alone a tie.
Don't be too sure. It depends on a whole lot of things. A buisness suit and tie was getting people off a while back. A leather jacket and army bag got me challenged once but bike leathers and helmet were acceptable another time... DHAMIK.



yet when we get an opportunity to sit down, and hear ALL the evidence, and play a part in the process...
You NEVER get to hear all the evidence.
The amount of horse-trading and pre-trial jockeying around by proseacution and defence teams tends to eliminate certain bits and pieces from the trial.

True story: Coming out of a jury room after a murder trial some years ago. We found the defendant guilty on forensic evidence presented BUT there was a gray area on the "whodunnit".
I was alongside one of the prosecuting cops and he said "you guys did the right thing. He confessed to the murder three times, but because he hadn't been read his rights it was inadmissable".

[Banditbandit]

People would be surprised what discussions take place in a closed jury room. A LOT more serious consideration of the evidence presented is done than some would care to imagine.

A lawyer I knew once told me he asked a juror he knew how the jry hd reached their decision - he said he was so horrified by the answer he never asked again ...


fuck that shit. Consenting/going would be legitamising the cracker ass kangaroo legal bullshit.



If you tell the judge you do not agree with the system and will not participate then he will excuse you ...


The jury's still out on weather Starship Troopers had a plot.

The book had a bit of a plot - but it's basically a Boys Own adventure story with a heavy dose of Heinlein's political philosophy - doesn't work well as a movie.


So whats the deal with criminal convictions and jury duty? Got called up years ago but never went for some reason, think I may of been on codfish island at the time:scratch:.
Surely there must be times when previous history must rule a person out.?

Yeah - previous convictions can rule you out ... but you have to appear in court and tell the judge - a friend of mine did - said he had been in jail and would never, under any circumstances, send anyone there - so the judge excused him.

[Gremlin]

So how do you ever get to take holidays if you're that indispensable?
Regular work is scheduled to not clash with the trip. Emergencies that occur... I carry gear with me (on holiday) and deal with things if required. Only had one night in 7 odd years with no coverage, Danseys Pass Hotel for all it's flash food - no coverage. Touched base the next morning. Mobile coverage for calls and data are the only limiting factor. Telecom is better than Vodafone in that regard. Worst case scenario, park the bike somewhere and fly back to deal with it (been close once or twice - murphys law <_<).

So whats the deal with criminal convictions and jury duty? Got called up years ago but never went for some reason, think I may of been on codfish island at the time:scratch:.
Surely there must be times when previous history must rule a person out.?
Yep, included in the link above. Certain convictions and periods of jail time over a certain length (think it was a few months).

[MisterD]

A buisness suit and tie was getting people off a while back.

Being a white man in a business suit is a pretty reliable way of not being selected, especially if the defendent is brown.

[tigertim20]

You NEVER get to hear all the evidence.
The amount of horse-trading and pre-trial jockeying around by proseacution and defence teams tends to eliminate certain bits and pieces from the trial.

".

I realise that, and its a fair point. What I was getting at though, is that there is a difference between the halfwits who proclaim they can be sure of the innocence / guilt of people like david bain, or mark lundy, or teina pora etc etc, because they have allegedly 'followed the case the whole way through' by which they mean they have read a two ro three paragraph snippet, or watched a 3 minute news segment on it each day, and think that is sufficient to understand everything that would have gone on over the course of several hours a day in the court room.

[Erelyes]

My 2c on such matters...

Spectacular waste of time when I was called up in Wellington. Lots of sitting around just so I could be challenged and go back to work.

One of my old bosses, whose name was Dennis, had been called up something like 5 times. His wife Denise - not once.

SWMBO sat on trial once, can't remember the charge but due to the lack of any decent evidence, her jury basically decided the defendant was less dodgy than the crackpot ('victim') testifying against them.

[wysper]

why is it twelve members?

Just for fun,

12 apostles
12 months of the year
12 signs of the zodiac
12 ribs (i think)
12 days of christmas
12 inches in a foot
12 numbers on a clock

Yay 12!

[Maha]

It's quite a good experience for a day or two, depending on what the case is. I have been on one Jury, didn't mind that at all to be honest... quite enlightening to see/watch and learn how a tail of woes can change you mind from guilty to not guilty, or vice versa. Was called up one more time but got off, played the self employment card. Plus I knew the court registrar at the time which helped.

[Akzle]

If you tell the judge you do not agree with the system and will not participate then he will excuse you ...


I know. I did it once. I dont think i have, before or since, used the word 'bullshit' more in a single document.
They sent back a polite letter 'you have been excused on this occasion but may be called again'
never heard from the cunts again. A decade and counting.

Funny, a sout afrikan bird heard i had got off so she asked me how, ended up sending a letter in saying (slight paraphrasation) 'well, actually, you homos stole the country and claimed your shit as right, the murrays were here first, so unless the case is being heard under tikaanga, gtfo.'
she was also excused.

[Banditbandit]

I've never been called ... when I was a journo I never expected to be .. I was court reporter and knew the lawyers, both prosecution and defense adn the police ... and had proably written stories about the cases ... journos never get called.

I haven't been a journo for 20 years - and I'd love to see what does happen in a jury room - it's the last part of court I've never seen - but I've never been called up ...

[Winston001]

The concept of a jury dates back to the Dark Ages and comes from the Vikings. Bloody Vikings (obligatory Monty Python ref :D).

So its a tried and true system for filtering justice. These days when a defendant faces a charge which is likely to garner public sympathy (such as shooting an intruder) he will chose trial by jury. Why? Because juries famously ignore the strict law and are likely to give the benefit of the doubt. That's why we have so many jury trials even when the accused is clearly guilty of doing a bad thing. Sometimes good people have to do bad things in the belief they have no choice.

[Akzle]

The concept of a jury dates back to the Dark Ages and comes from the Vikings. Bloody Vikings (obligatory Monty Python ref :D).

So its a tried and true system for filtering justice. These days when a defendant faces a charge which is likely to garner public sympathy (such as shooting an intruder) he will chose trial by jury. Why? Because juries famously ignore the strict law and are likely to give the benefit of the doubt. That's why we have so many jury trials even when the accused is clearly guilty of doing a bad thing. Sometimes good people have to do bad things in the belief they have no choice.






there are several legislations that cover that, claim of right, defense of movable property, self defense etc.

Also, bitchdame elias has effectively (several years ago) removed a nz citizens right to choose to be tried by jury.

[Naki Rat]

Display an attitude that is considered non PC. Turn up in your leathers with a freshly shaven head, get challenged and go home :banana:
Worked for me (twice in two years) :niceone:

[husaberg]

Don't be too sure. It depends on a whole lot of things. A buisness suit and tie was getting people off a while back. A leather jacket and army bag got me challenged once but bike leathers and helmet were acceptable another time... DHAMIK.






Being a white man in a business suit is a pretty reliable way of not being selected, especially if the defendent is brown.
it sure depends they do both have a limited number of challenges a friend who is a detective said how i normally dress for work i was like a prosecutions dream.

My 2c on such matters...

Spectacular waste of time when I was called up in Wellington. Lots of sitting around just so I could be challenged and go back to work.

One of my old bosses, whose name was Dennis, had been called up something like 5 times. His wife Denise - not once.

SWMBO sat on trial once, can't remember the charge but due to the lack of any decent evidence, her jury basically decided the defendant was less dodgy than the crackpot ('victim') testifying against them.

I am 40 i would say i have been called up maybe 20 times got out of most due to work commitments but where i work now which is publicly owned has a policy to not get people off jury service we have approx 25 employees last time i was called up 4 of us were summonsed


So whats the deal with criminal convictions and jury duty? Got called up years ago but never went for some reason, think I may of been on codfish island at the time:scratch:.
Surely there must be times when previous history must rule a person out.?

Not sure re convictions actually but if you serve on some vile cases like i did they let you off for a few years, and sometimes say on a Murder forever i think.
I can remember on a busy week seeing the same people serve multiple times on different jury's..... I bet they felt popular.

[Swoop]

...but if you serve on some vile cases like i did they let you off for a few years, and sometimes say on a Murder forever i think.
Unsure about that. I was on a murder case and have been called up again since.

[Banditbandit]

After a particularly nasty case (either gory or children or both) or two I have seen judges tell jurors they have done their duty and will not be called up again for (and named the years) or say they wil never be called again ...

[scott411]

I had never had Jury service before, i got a high court summonds last year, but managed to get off it as I lived more than 50km away, have just got a District Court one for the end of November, I have deffered it as i will be in teh south island the week they want me,

[Gremlin]

Going through all this again, 7 years since the last summons, and more annoyingly, my boss hasn't had one in 9-10 years (he even jokingly offered a substitution instead). Submitted the required paperwork to be excused, along with business card, supporting letter etc, and received this email back:


Thanks for your email. I am unable to excuse you from jury service on -call up date- completely. Due to a legislative change on the 04 October 2010, a deferral will always be considered in the first instance. This process is used so we can accommodate most people’s situations and commitments. This can, for example, be a less busy time at work, when you’re not on a planned holiday, during school holidays, or out of school, family commitment etc.

The reason the deferral legislation came into law on 4 October 2010 is so that if a juror was summoned for a particular date and was unable to attend, they could be deferred to a later date. This allows those selected for jury duty, self-employed, a contractor and specialised contractor, employees and/or their employers, students as well as anybody else affected by their legal jury duty requirements, sufficient time to organise cover, leave or any other arrangements necessary to allow that juror to attend when re-summoned.

Only certain occupations are disqualified from jury service under section 8 Juries Act 1981, such as judges and police staff, people employed in other occupations who wish to be excused are required to provide a reason that falls within those provided by the legislation. Most people summonsed for jury service are employed in some way or have personal matters that are interrupted by attendance at Court. Under section 14B(2)(b) of the Juries Act 1981, you can only be deferred once, and under section 14B(1)(a), this deferral must be within a 12 month period.

To be deferred from your jury service on this occasion, you will need to provide more appropriate dates for your jury service. The dates you give us must be for a period of time of at least four weeks as from -date bracket-. Please note: (The courts are closed between mid-December to mid-January.) You will be called for the closest trial to the first date. If you could advise of this as soon as possible I will be able to process your application accordingly. If you do not attempt to provide us with convenient deferral dates on your response form, then we generate these dates automatically, meaning they may interfere with your commitments.

Please note that with this deferral of your jury service on this occasion you will be required to attend when re-summoned. It is important that the dates given are a period that you are available as these dates cannot be changed at a later date.

However, if you do not wish to be deferred from this service, you may need to attend on your summoned date and appeal your application decision to the Judge.

If you could please advise of these dates as soon as possible I will be able to process your application accordingly.


Fucken pisser. It's right after I'm back from a tentative plan to the South Island (partly to move a client's branch office) and a wedding in Rotorua, ie, I'm back in Auckland 1 Feb and now court 2 Feb. I likely need to defer as my boss will likely be travelling in the first two weeks of February (hell, he hadn't even spoken to me about it yet), but then (in bold) they clearly state it can't be deferred again a second time. I don't possess a fucken crystal ball and I'm the sole employee (not counting my boss). The last time I wasn't reachable on my mobile was over 4 years ago when I was in the USA, and the first thing I did after checking into a hotel was get a local mobile number and be contactable - plus I've worked on cruise ships as well.

Fucken government employees that work half days. Last year I worked Xmas Eve, Xmas Day and Boxing because it was the single best time of year to take critical networks out of action... :mad: Now we have to figure out what's the best path... the managed work load is easy to schedule, it's getting a call at 4am that something isn't working, or a server is down, that can't be planned for...

[Scuba_Steve]

Going through all this again, 7 years since the last summons, and more annoyingly, my boss hasn't had one in 9-10 years

If it helps any, I've never been summoned... Not expecting I ever will
But yes, a few people are getting caught out by this new change

[Bikemad]

Going through all this again, 7 years since the last summons, and more annoyingly, my boss hasn't had one in 9-10 years (he even jokingly offered a substitution instead). Submitted the required paperwork to be excused, along with business card, supporting letter etc, and received this email back:



Fucken pisser. It's right after I'm back from a tentative plan to the South Island (partly to move a client's branch office) and a wedding in Rotorua, ie, I'm back in Auckland 1 Feb and now court 2 Feb. I likely need to defer as my boss will likely be travelling in the first two weeks of February (hell, he hadn't even spoken to me about it yet), but then (in bold) they clearly state it can't be deferred again a second time. I don't possess a fucken crystal ball and I'm the sole employee (not counting my boss). The last time I wasn't reachable on my mobile was over 4 years ago when I was in the USA, and the first thing I did after checking into a hotel was get a local mobile number and be contactable - plus I've worked on cruise ships as well.

Fucken government employees that work half days. Last year I worked Xmas Eve, Xmas Day and Boxing because it was the single best time of year to take critical networks out of action... :mad: Now we have to figure out what's the best path... the managed work load is easy to schedule, it's getting a call at 4am that something isn't working, or a server is down, that can't be planned for...

you should send them a thankyou letter with a New Zealand National Front letterhead..........you will be excused:msn-wink:

[J.A.W.]

a clearly effective system when you must be forcibly persuaded to participate.

Yeah, its a longstanding ( for centuries) civil duty.. & not to be shirked lightly..
..albeit.. if you have the prefix "Psych..." heading your occupation category on the Electoral Roll, you won't even be asked, I've found..

[Gremlin]

If it helps any, I've never been summoned... Not expecting I ever will
But yes, a few people are getting caught out by this new change
Perhaps they pick on immigrants... I'm planning to get around to citizenship next year... only been here since 1997... :lol:

[J.A.W.]

Perhaps they pick on immigrants... I'm planning to get around to citizenship next year... only been here since 1997... :lol:

Yeah, here's a tip for ya G.. if like you.. speak English with a nasty accent that labels you as a right ignorant bastard, you'll likely be excused, anyhow..

[Gremlin]

Yeah, here's a tip for ya G.. if like you.. speak English with a nasty accent that labels you as a right ignorant bastard, you'll likely be excused, anyhow..
South Africa doesn't have a jury system, just assessors (experts in law) to assist the judge. Seems efficient and practical to me. To be guilty (or not) you've either broken the law (or not) which means you have to know the relevant laws.

Instead, they want people that DON'T know the law, to decide. That's akin to asking my clients to fix their own technical issues... I've very seldom seen a successful result. Go figure :weird:

[gsxr]

I managed to get off 5 times due to being sole trader with a family to support. Managed to get off #6 summons but was deferred to a suitable quiet time for me or they would stipulate a time as per gremlins email. Fortunately for me on my deferred summons far more than required ppl turned up so names were drawn out.Luckily for me I didnt win the raffle as it was a 4 week trial.
Knowing full well that I would be paid the princely sum of $31.00 for a 1/2 day attendance I chose to spend it wisely at the local pub to celebrate .

[Akzle]

Going through all this again, 7 years since the last summons, and more annoyingly, my boss hasn't had one in 9-10 years (he even jokingly offered a substitution instead). Submitted the required paperwork to be excused, along with business card, supporting letter etc, and received this email back:



Fucken pisser. It's right after I'm back from a tentative plan to the South Island (partly to move a client's branch office) and a wedding in Rotorua, ie, I'm back in Auckland 1 Feb and now court 2 Feb. I likely need to defer as my boss will likely be travelling in the first two weeks of February (hell, he hadn't even spoken to me about it yet), but then (in bold) they clearly state it can't be deferred again a second time. I don't possess a fucken crystal ball and I'm the sole employee (not counting my boss). The last time I wasn't reachable on my mobile was over 4 years ago when I was in the USA, and the first thing I did after checking into a hotel was get a local mobile number and be contactable - plus I've worked on cruise ships as well.

Fucken government employees that work half days. Last year I worked Xmas Eve, Xmas Day and Boxing because it was the single best time of year to take critical networks out of action... :mad: Now we have to figure out what's the best path... the managed work load is easy to schedule, it's getting a call at 4am that something isn't working, or a server is down, that can't be planned for...

:violin: do your fucken duty, citizen. You voted for it.

[Akzle]

If it helps any, I've never been summoned... Not expecting I ever will
But yes, a few people are getting caught out by this new change
i got it once, when i was 16 or so. Sent a letter telling them to fuck off. They did.
Havent been on the electoral roll since.

Yeah, its a longstanding ( for centuries) civil duty.. & not to be shirked lightly..
..albeit.. if you have the prefix "Psych..." heading your occupation category on the Electoral Roll, you won't even be asked, I've found..
or... They might have half an idea that you're a fucking dropkick

South Africa doesn't have a jury system, just assessors (experts in law) to assist the judge. Seems efficient and practical to me. To be guilty (or not) you've either broken the law (or not) which means you have to know the relevant laws.

Instead, they want people that DON'T know the law, to decide. That's akin to asking my clients to fix their own technical issues... I've very seldom seen a successful result. Go figure :weird:

except that a jury of your peers is one of the rights(/duties) conferred on us by mother unglund vis the magna carta and part of the adversarial judicial system we suffer.

Technically "the law is every man's"
so why we need bitch ass jewlawyers at 300 an hour to interpret it for the plebs is a bit beyond me.

Oh, wait, no. It's because they use jewspeak/legalese to fuck your ass and confuse and enslave everyone :doh:

[Gremlin]

:violin: do your fucken duty, citizen. You voted for it.
Actually, I'm only a permanent resident... haven't been elevated to the class of citizen yet :bleh:

[J.A.W.]

Actually, I'm only a permanent resident... haven't been elevated to the class of citizen yet :bleh:

Then, as so succinctly put by the Jew lawyer character played by Sean Penn in 'Carlito's Way'..

"Excuse me, is this your boat? No? Then shut the fuck up!" L.O.L...

& you'd better hope that the Citizenship mob don't see how you carry on here.. or its back to 'District 9'.. L.O.L...

[awa355]

& you'd better hope that the Citizenship mob don't see how you carry on here.. or its back to 'District 9'.. L.O.L...

I would doubt that Gremlin would too much to worry about regarding his behaviour on this forum. His postings usually contain a level of rational and reason not displayed by a great many members. :bleh:

[J.A.W.]

I would doubt that Gremlin would too much to worry about regarding his behaviour on this forum. His postings usually contain a level of rational and reason not displayed by a great many members. :bleh:


Well, I do doubt that the opinion of a self-proclaimed tiddler 250 4T rider - can carry much value..
..but I have to remark - with reference to his published views on this thread.. he's on thin ice, official attitude-wise, & by some reckoning..

[Moi]

Well, I do doubt that the opinion of a self-proclaimed tiddler 250 4T rider - can carry much value...

Jealousy will get you nowhere...

[Banditbandit]

Well, I do doubt that the opinion of a self-proclaimed tiddler 250 4T rider - can carry much value..
..but I have to remark - with reference to his published views on this thread.. he's on thin ice, official attitude-wise, & by some reckoning..

And how much credibility here does the self-proclaimed rider of an old RD Yammie and a old Kwaka H2 have ???

[J.A.W.]

And how much credibility here does the self-proclaimed rider of an old RD Yammie and a old Kwaka H2 have ???

Way more - than if I rode a boring old retro porkasaurus 'Bandit' - for sure.. L.O.L... ( & FYI, the H2 mill is powering the RDLC chassis.)


& anyhow, I'm a natural born NZ citizen, & as a part-native, entitled to a place on the Maori Electoral Roll too, so pipe te fuk down eh, bro..

[Akzle]

Actually, I'm only a permanent resident... haven't been elevated to the class of citizen yet :bleh:

well (and im sure ocean will back me up on this) if you dont like it, fuck off to timbuktu.

[FJRider]

well (and im sure ocean will back me up on this) if you dont like it, fuck off to timbuktu.

Ditto ....................................... :doh:

[gsxr]

Way more - than if I rode a boring old retro porkasaurus 'Bandit' - for sure.. L.O.L... ( & FYI, the H2 mill is powering the RDLC chassis.)


& anyhow, I'm a natural born NZ citizen, & as a part-native, entitled to a place on the Maori Electoral Roll too, so pipe te fuk down eh, bro..
I have no idea who to thank but your choice to move to Australia would have raised the average IQ of NZ

[J.A.W.]

I have no idea who to thank but your choice to move to Australia would have raised the average IQ of NZ


Whataya mean by - "your choice" - are you trying on some tricky racist honky anti-Maori shit now, bro?

North Island, South Island &,
West Island - ITS ALL Maori Land!

Well, 'til it gets taken over by the Muzzies as The Caliphate, anyhow... hee..hee..hee..

[Akzle]

Ditto ....................................... :doh:

did you hear a wooshing noise when the point went right over your head?

[gsxr]

well (and im sure ocean will back me up on this) if you dont like it, fuck off to timbuktu.

If you need help with the fare Im sure there are a few that will chip in

[gsxr]

[QUOTE=J.A.W.;1130930234]Whataya mean by - "your choice" - are you trying on some tricky racist honky anti-Maori shit now, bro?

North Island, South Island &,
West Island - ITS ALL Maori Land!

Well, 'til it gets taken over by the Muzzies as The Caliphate, anyhow... hee..hee..hee..[/QUOTE
best you get your black arse back here and mow the lawn in your quarter acre state hose then .
When your finished that you can start clearing the tussock and gorse on your neglected tribal lands.
Or did you move to Austraila to avoid your resposibilities

[gsxr]

[QUOTE=J.A.W.;1130930234]Whataya mean by - "your choice" - are you trying on some tricky racist honky anti-Maori shit now, bro?

North Island, South Island &,
West Island - ITS ALL Maori Land!

Well, 'til it gets taken over by the Muzzies as The Caliphate, anyhow... hee..hee..hee..[/QUOTE
best you get your black arse back here and mow the lawn in your quarter acre state hose then .
When your finished that you can start clearing the tussock and gorse on your neglected tribal lands.
Or did you move to Austraila to avoid your resposibilities

Why does that come up as totally my quote as it wasnt

[awa355]

& anyhow, I'm a natural born NZ citizen, & as a part-native, entitled to a place on the Maori Electoral Roll too, so pipe te fuk down eh, bro..

So will you be getting a free air flight back any time soon? :blink:

[J.A.W.]

So will you be getting a free air flight back any time soon? :blink:

A koha flight to catch up with the cuzzies for a huge Xmas feed/piss up, shit yeah..

As for gsxr, so - who's the turkey with the obviously subnormal IQ now eh, fella.. You! L.O.L...

[Berries]

..but I have to remark - with reference to his published views on this thread.. he's on thin ice, official attitude-wise, & by some reckoning..
You should report him, you seem to be good at that you twat.

[gsxr]

A koha flight to catch up with the cuzzies for a huge Xmas feed/piss up, shit yeah..

As for gsxr, so - who's the turkey with the obviously subnormal IQ now eh, fella.. You! L.O.L...
Bugger. As a goodwill gesture for Christmas I was going to send you a new keyboard with a better attitude.
However the cut off date Express Courier was yesterday.
I am ecstatic for you
to be receiving a koha flight. Most of us honkies have managed to make our own way in this life without bludging.
Merry Christmas to you and your cuzzies

[gsxr]

Might turn out an expensive koha flight if this hasnt been paid

Order of the Council in Disciplinary Session Order in Respect of James Andrew Walby, Registered Psychiatric Nurse In exercise of its powers under sections 42 (1) (b), 42 (2) (ba), 42 (3) and 48a of the Nurses Act 1977, after due inquiry, the Nursing Council of New Zealand (``the council'') in a decision dated 25 October 1996, ordered that James Andrew Walby practise for 18 months after he recommences practice only in a general and/or psychiatric nursing setting subject to certain conditions imposed by the council. The council also ordered that he pay $30,000.00 towards the costs and expenses of and incidental to the investigation by the preliminary proceedings committee and inquiry by the council and that a notice stating the effect of these orders by published in the New Zealand Gazette and Kai Tiaki: Nursing New Zealand. BELINDA GREER, Registrar.

Just saying

[J.A.W.]

Might turn out an expensive koha flight if this hasnt been paid

Order of the Council in Disciplinary Session Order in Respect of James Andrew Walby, Registered Psychiatric Nurse In exercise of its powers under sections 42 (1) (b), 42 (2) (ba), 42 (3) and 48a of the Nurses Act 1977, after due inquiry, the Nursing Council of New Zealand (``the council'') in a decision dated 25 October 1996, ordered that James Andrew Walby practise for 18 months after he recommences practice only in a general and/or psychiatric nursing setting subject to certain conditions imposed by the council. The council also ordered that he pay $30,000.00 towards the costs and expenses of and incidental to the investigation by the preliminary proceedings committee and inquiry by the council and that a notice stating the effect of these orders by published in the New Zealand Gazette and Kai Tiaki: Nursing New Zealand. BELINDA GREER, Registrar.

Just saying


Shit eh, that fella musta bin some bad-as, eh.. & hey, maybe he'll put you on his utu list - as well.. so best watch yourself.. eh.. fella..

But 1996? Seriously.. aint that when the SRAD GSX-R was intro'd.. & you still aint moved up to one of them - yet?
& you're still stuck with the fat 'n' lazy ol' shitter from `92?

As Jake te Muss would be "just saying".. "Useless prick".. L.O.L...

[J.A.W.]

I should report him, I seem to be good at that, being a Pommy twat.

Yeah, fixed that for ya..

[J.A.W.]

You should report him, you seem to be good at that you twat.

What an evil-minded idea you've mooted, heh, heh..

I can see it now - "Infringement Notice" issued for un-citizenlike conduct by a prospect..
That'd rock his world.. all the way back to 'District 9' - & gsxr has already offered to contribute to the fare.. L.O.L...