Speed tolerance reduced for December and January

[Dave-]

fuck. this thread didn't get any more interesting today.


the limit is 100. if you go ONE kilometer per hour faster than that you're a fucking criminal, regardless of your tyre size or speedo error or any other fucking thing, and you should be put in jail for endangering the lives of everyone.

dont like it? get a better society.

You should march on parliament with a .22

That would be awesome.

[Scuba_Steve]

You should march on parliament with a .22

That would be awesome.

Fuck the .22, this is Akzle we're talking bout here; Bring the AK or .50cal I say :ar15:

[Akzle]

You should march on parliament with a .22

That would be awesome.

one .22,
yeah, that'd sure show em.
something.

i'm not sure if you've noticed, but i dont actually give a fuck. i'm likely travelling at ~100, ~110 or >140.

i also dont give a fuck about parliament. i wouldn't bother marching, i'd find a nice spot on the 4th floor of the bus terminal tower with a 20mm anzio, and let the lulz commence.
(hi GCSB) :wavey:

[Juniper]

God I didn't realise how easy it is to creep into the 10km over bracket, or just how often I do it. :facepalm:

This is so annoying. I'm spending so much time looking down at my speedo just to make sure, rather than just cruising along and going with the flow of traffic and relaxing..


Its not paranoia when they are out to get you!

[rastuscat]

Long may discretion reign. But all the reportedly low tolerance cameras (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=11165939) lack it.

No doubt the pollies will declare the "trial" a great success (unless there is utter carnage; hopefully not) and once the cameras have been changed, what are the chances of changing them back in February? Pretty slim.

Still, the local camera seemed disinterested in pinging the stream of 60km/h traffic going past it today, unless the flash is invisible these days(?)

The flash is now infra red. IIs not visible.

[swarfie]

The flash is now infra red. IIs not visible.

That'd be bloody normal...the pricks don't even WANT you to know you've been reamed any more. I'm with you Juniper, spending too much time lookin at my speedo (which is not accurate) rather than concentrating on the pleasure of riding. :facepalm::angry:

[rastuscat]

I'm spending so much time looking down at my speedo just to make sure, rather than just cruising along and going with the flow of traffic !

This is something I've thought about.

I find that I've become good at speed regulation without constantly looking at the speedo. The sensation of speed is very detectable, amd experience makes it quite reliable.

Obviously not infallible. I got pinged at 95 towing a trailer a couple of years ago. My internal cruise control lulled me into that sense that I wasn't going too fast.

I sure don't have to waste my concentration on constantly staring at the speedo. It's just another bullshit red herring from the I-can-beat-the-laws-of-physics lobby.

[pzkpfw]

God I didn't realise how easy it is to creep into the 10km over bracket, or just how often I do it. :facepalm:

This is so annoying. I'm spending so much time looking down at my speedo just to make sure, rather than just cruising along and going with the flow of traffic and relaxing..


Its not paranoia when they are out to get you!

Yes.

Analogue speedo on my bike goes to 260 km/h (goodness knows why ...) in 5/8 of a circle. So 10 km is a tiny smear. I know some blowhards like to claim any driver or rider who can't stick to one speed is somehow defective, but the way a bike (like mine or any) can change speeds so easily; 10 km drift in speeds is pretty normal. And 100 to 110 km is where I prefer to stay because if I'm in the 95 to 105 range (or lower) I'll get some car trying to give me a prostate exam.

(I've been pinged in my car doing 116 km/h. No argument from me *; that's beyond drift into "I should have been able to avoid" territory. (* Except the usual "but it wasn't unsafe ... waaa waaa..."))

[swbarnett]

This is something I've thought about.

I find that I've become good at speed regulation without constantly looking at the speedo. The sensation of speed is very detectable, amd experience makes it quite reliable.
My wife tried it for a while. After several near misses she gave up in favour of her own safety.


I sure don't have to waste my concentration on constantly staring at the speedo. It's just another bullshit red herring from the I-can-beat-the-laws-of-physics lobby.
Now that you mention the laws of physics, why do we have the same speed limit for a beat up old bomb that barely passes a WOF and the latest 5-star safety rated technological marvel?

[Scuba_Steve]

I sure don't have to waste my concentration on constantly staring at the speedo. It's just another bullshit red herring from the I-can-beat-the-laws-of-physics lobby.

No, no it's not. Are you saying you can dive/ride a multitude of different vehicles with different acceleration resistance & wind noise etc at correct speed without looking at your speedo? are you saying you can accelerate from an intersection to the correct speed & maintain it without looking at your speedo? you saying you can hit different winds, hills, slopes, dips etc without needing to look at your speedo?

I'm willing for you to put your money where your mouth is if you want; let me borrow your scam gun & scam issuer we'll cover your speedo & I'll follow you for a day issuing a scam ticket every time you breech the limit then we can tally up what you owe at the end of day... I might even get a toaster or donut maker out of it

As for the whole physics thing short of limiting trucks to 20km/h, SUVs to 40km/h & cars to 60km/h that arguments moot

[Jay GTI]

This is something I've thought about.

I find that I've become good at speed regulation without constantly looking at the speedo. The sensation of speed is very detectable, amd experience makes it quite reliable.

Obviously not infallible. I got pinged at 95 towing a trailer a couple of years ago. My internal cruise control lulled me into that sense that I wasn't going too fast.

I sure don't have to waste my concentration on constantly staring at the speedo. It's just another bullshit red herring from the I-can-beat-the-laws-of-physics lobby.

You're quite good with the propaganda. Unfortunately, much like my "constantly see", it's an empty statement. Fit an accurate speed-tracking GPS device to your vehicles, monitor your driving over a week (or more) and then tell us you are capable of accurately judging you speed. Independent corroboration of your "facts" please, otherwise you're just making shit up.

[willytheekid]

This is something I've thought about.

I find that I've become good at speed regulation without constantly looking at the speedo. The sensation of speed is very detectable, amd experience makes it quite reliable.

Obviously not infallible. I got pinged at 95 towing a trailer a couple of years ago. My internal cruise control lulled me into that sense that I wasn't going too fast.

I sure don't have to waste my concentration on constantly staring at the speedo. It's just another bullshit red herring from the I-can-beat-the-laws-of-physics lobby.

:facepalm:
You not had coffee?...last in line for the sugar donuts this morning??

...cos that post just REEKS of double standards and self contradiction!

"I find that I've become good at speed regulation without constantly looking at the speedo. The sensation of speed is very detectable, amd experience makes it quite reliable"

Then immediately state:
"Obviously not infallible, I got pinged at 95 towing a trailer a couple of years ago. My internal cruise control lulled me into that sense that I wasn't going too fast":confused:

THEN!!...go on to have a shot a fellow KBers for sharing there experiance's & concerns thus far, while clinging to the already self-disproven fact that you can regulate your own speed without looking at the speedo! :weird:

"I sure don't have to waste my concentration on constantly staring at the speedo. It's just another bullshit red herring from the I-can-beat-the-laws-of-physics lobby"

:killingme
http://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/you-talk-so-much-shit.jpg

...go find a coffee and donut mate...even your spelling sucks this morning:laugh:

ps...please "scam" the ticket & post it on here...scummy will be impressed at such a fast responce lol

pps..I don't give a shit about the 4k limit personally...I tend to focus primarily on survival!...and if I have to break a few "minor traffic laws" in the process, so be it! (I don't watch the speedo very much...the threats on the road around me tend to take most of my focus sorry)...that and I still ride for the shear enjoyment & fun of it all :love:(remember that?)

[Juniper]

To somewhat come to his rescue I can approximately tell what speed I'm going, but I don't have an internal radar to tell the difference between 50km 54km and 58km. Which is why I keep finding myself creeping up without realising.

I think we all can TO A DEGREE. I'd be able to tell if I'm going 80 in a 50km zone lol.

My default now is to sit in 6th, cause then I know I've got no real power to go any faster without thinking about it.

I was talking to a cop the other day (ok the cop was talking to us as she'd just pulled a friend over) and she said that they have whole days where they target riders. Since then I've felt paranoid that they are out to get me.

On the other hand I was overtaking an undercover cop the other week and as I usually do I like to look into peoples windows and he turned with a big cheesy grin and waved at me, so I girl waved back and continued at 100-110km past him. He just continued rocking along at 95km and never bothered me.

[Zedder]

The debate on an open road speed limit has been going on in Oz's Northern Territory for over 5 years.

However, I applaude them because they at least are trialling a period of no speed limit. All the rhetoric and theory etc will finally be reduced to an empirical experience.

[willytheekid]

To somewhat come to his rescue I can approximately tell what speed I'm going, but I don't have an internal radar to tell the difference between 50km 54km and 58km. Which is why I keep finding myself creeping up without realising.

I think we all can TO A DEGREE. I'd be able to tell if I'm going 80 in a 50km zone lol.

My default now is to sit in 6th, cause then I know I've got no real power to go any faster without thinking about it.

I was talking to a cop the other day (ok the cop was talking to us as she'd just pulled a friend over) and she said that they have whole days where they target riders. Since then I've felt paranoid that they are out to get me.

On the other hand I was overtaking an undercover cop the other week and as I usually do I like to look into peoples windows and he turned with a big cheesy grin and waved at me, so I girl waved back and continued at 100-110km past him. He just continued rocking along at 95km and never bothered me.

Yup, we can all "approximately" judge our speed...but thats the issue at hand.
The new "tolerance" really exceeds that ability, and it also goes directly against the current laws that state that vehical manufacturers are allowed X level of acuracy in regards to speed accuracy...so its really just a luck thing if you actually get caught (But, as scummy stated...If anyone actually gets a ticket issued, its more than likely not gonna be for 4-5k over...well, except for Rastuscat and his trailer lol)

Just stick to focusing on your own safety mate, not avoiding tickets for minor traffic infringments....we all know if we are "really" speeding or riding dangerously, and so do the police...and thats there primary focus!, getting the real threats off the road to ensure our safety...I just wish they could make the courts actually hand out "real" sentances (All that hard friggin work, just to be ridiculed by a BS justice system)

as for coming to Rastuscats rescue:laugh:...he's a big boy mate, and he knows I have nothing but respect for him and the police :yes:
...but he's also a senior KBer, hence he knows that if you post shit!...you get shit!:bleh: (If he has an issue, Im sure he can find me for a road side berating lol)
But alot on here fail to understand that he's a police Sarg!, so he can't just jump online and Publicly object to the very job he is paid to do! (And at least he is engaging us in the subject...we gotta give him respect for that!)

Ride safe Juniper, and have a safe & merry xmas :love:

[James Deuce]

What is WRONG with you, Willy?

[Big Dave]

What is WRONG with you, Willy?

'alot'


<tenchars> </tenchars>

[Gremlin]

That'd be bloody normal...the pricks don't even WANT you to know you've been reamed any more.
That's actually a good thing. I was leading a ride one night, came over the brow of a hill and got flashed (but I don't think I was speeding, and there was never any follow up, so being flashed was surprising in itself). Anyway, that flash, at night, was pretty disorientating for a second or two and messed with my night vision. Nice and safe at 100kph eh? :mellow:

[GrayWolf]

It's really easy for the management to make a media statement about how we'll be rigidly enforcing the 4 kmh tolerance.

It's another issue altogether to get the troops to buy into it.

Sorry Rastus,
while I accept I was 'speeding' and am not going to spew over injustice..

I was behind a queue of cars (8or9) nose to tail traveling between 90- 95kph. No room to overtake in stages, as insufficient gap between cars.. on a straight, clear section of road I overtook them. Of course typically as I was level with the last car, round the corner comes on of NZ's finest. :crazy: Now had I exceeded 112km's I would in fact have overtaken, and been clear of, with speed reduced to sub 110 by the time the 'disco lights' came round the bend..

So a ticket for 112 was duly issued.

I travel to work all different times of day, literally, different times each day, and already this week, there are crocodiles traveling sub 100kph, with others traveling in the overtaking lane at same/similar speeds. I can see only frustration is going to arise from this 2 months 'intolerance' and I will be astounded if there are not increases in 'road rage' fueled accidents.

[Akzle]

for all the pissing and moaning. here's what's going to happen:
fuckall.
life will go on as usual.

as much as i'd like to see the drains run with blood and piled with the charred remains of four wheeled things, there will be exactly no more, or less crashes than at any other time. ever.

now. can y'all fuck up about it.

[GrayWolf]

Well, after 30 years of development they still can't get them to work.

not quite, but I think the technology is on the brink.. Reason although not related, it is indirectly..
the common O2 sensor fitted to vehicles. They are now fitting some vehicles with an ECU that can register if it's disconnected and/or a defeat unit is fitted. My own bike has one of these, and even using a 'resistor' or disconnection, the ECU recognises either it is missing, or it expects 'variance' in the signal voltage which a resistor doesn't give, and goes into a 'limp home' setting (reduced power).

If the ECU is programmed, the only defeat is either replacing it (as i am doing) or a reflash. it's only a short step away to an alcohol sensor.. remember Mercedes and now Honda have systems that can 'register' if a driver is overtired from monitoring eye movement patterns.

[Zedder]

not quite, but I think the technology is on the brink.. Reason although not related, it is indirectly..
the common O2 sensor fitted to vehicles. They are now fitting some vehicles with an ECU that can register if it's disconnected and/or a defeat unit is fitted. My own bike has one of these, and even using a 'resistor' or disconnection, the ECU recognises either it is missing, or it expects 'variance' in the signal voltage which a resistor doesn't give, and goes into a 'limp home' setting (reduced power).

If the ECU is programmed, the only defeat is either replacing it (as i am doing) or a reflash. it's only a short step away to an alcohol sensor.. remember Mercedes and now Honda have systems that can 'register' if a driver is overtired from monitoring eye movement patterns.

Interesting, let's analyse this:

My statement was they can't get them to work ie: a fact. Your reply was "not quite but I think the technology is on the brink". Ie: Not a fact, followed by an opinion. So I'm wrong?

[willytheekid]

What is WRONG with you, Willy?

:confused:...Are you referring to my constant use of FACTS?

Why are you struggling to understand that this new "tolerance", is a bit to fine in regards to the average kiwi drivers ability to judge and maintain there speed to such a fine degree, and that it also directly goes against the Mechanical standards Laws in NZ, that govern the agreed accuracy of speedo's on vehicals, and the fact that this new tollerance allows the Govn't to possibly collect revenue off tax payers, for extremely small indiscretions that may be of no fault of the driver-(And they offer no affordable way of questioning these infrations)

...or are you just happy to cross your fingers and hope! that little flashing light in your dash is ACTUALLY calibrated to 104kph (admit it...you would be pissed!! if you got a $30 ticket for no fault of your own, or a brief moment of inattention in regards to speed...wouldn't ya!)


...but yes...there must be alot "wrong with me" if I DARE to use this public forum to raise these questions AND use supporting facts! (it is kinda out of the KB norm tho lol)

-still, wishing you a safe & merry xmas James, and yes, I too will be "trying" to adhere to the new limit...but like most, I have a speedo that goes up in 6mm 10k blocks, is untested for absolute accuracy, and Im actually still human!...so I can only try my best.


EDIT!...shit fuck!...just got ya rep James
- "Nooo, it's cos you are being NICE TO PEOPLE! IT'S CHRISTMAS TIME! BE GRUMPY!"


damnit! :facepalm:

hang on :confused:...YOUR RIGHT!!:eek5:...I really do need help :wacko: lol

once again...safe & merry xmas mate :love:

[James Deuce]

Lol. Much better. I want Christmas grumpyness, not common sense and joy.

[willytheekid]

Lol. Much better. I want Christmas grumpyness, not common sense and joy.

Im trying!!...but some things just make me happy

http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/funny-xmas-tree-christmas-happy-smiling-grumpy-angry-cat-beautiful-pics.jpg

hmmm...550 × 799...wonder if gremlin will give me infraction present again? (after all, he promised he wuvs me!)

[Gremlin]

hmmm...550 × 799...wonder if gremlin will give me infraction present again? (after all, he promised he wuvs me!)
Luring you into a false sense of hope? Consider it a Chrissy gift ;)

[rastuscat]

Re my ability to know my own speed, I tend to drive by feel, and more often than not I'm surprised to be correct when I see I was doing 50 in a 50.

Re anything else, sod off.

So there.

[Akzle]

more often than not I'm surprised to be correct

^^ this
. .

[pzkpfw]

Cops having a drive-by feel, has been an issue lately.

[Zedder]

Re my ability to know my own speed, I tend to drive by feel, and more often than not I'm surprised to be correct when I see I was doing 50 in a 50.

Re anything else, sod off.

So there.

Heh, that looks like it was meant to go something like this next: "Well that wasn't very mature or logical rtc" to which you (or Scumdog) reply "Just like most things on KB" etc, etc, usually ending with "Donuts".

[James Deuce]

MMmmmm, "doughnuts". This is New Zealand. We done spell right.

[Zedder]

MMmmmm, "doughnuts". This is New Zealand. We done spell right.

Yep, he does keep spelling it the US way.

[scumdog]

MMmmmm, "doughnuts". This is New Zealand. We done spell right.


Duffnuts??
Downuts?
Doffnuts?

[Robbo]

The new issue police vehicles, designed to take the operators minds off the 4km/h over limit.:rolleyes:

[R650R]

Looks like their in damage control mode already

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UJvrbzAOwP0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nothing seems to have changed in our area. People seem to have adopted the OFIIDIA approach already...

[Scuba_Steve]

6 days in & success already! as the trip home was delayed thanks to a major crash

Six people have been taken to hospital after a three-car crash on State Highway 2 near Upper Hutt that closed one lane.

Operation slow down & endanger is coming along nicely

[James Deuce]

One of those cars was flat.

[scumdog]

6 days in & success already! as the trip home was delayed thanks to a major crash

Six people have been taken to hospital after a three-car crash on State Highway 2 near Upper Hutt that closed one lane.

Operation slow down & endanger is coming along nicely

Good!:clap:

Enjoy....

[Ocean1]

One of those cars was flat.

*Checks* No fatalities. Some lucky people, there.

Was Haywards/Hutt motorway intersection?

[rastuscat]

Had a thought today.

All this shit on KB about how unfair it all is sounds a bit like my 15 year old telling me it's not fair that he has to do the dishes.

It makes feck all difference, won't change a thing, and is just so much a waste of time.

Still, I keep hearing how unfair it is, so I guess it'll just keep happening. Coz sure, no degree of KB-ing will change anything.

[Scuba_Steve]

*Checks* No fatalities. Some lucky people, there.

Was Haywards/Hutt motorway intersection?

na closer to the Silverstream turn off

[Ocean1]

na closer to the Silverstream turn off

Interesting, I went through there about then, didn't notice any drama...

[Zedder]

Had a thought today.

All this shit on KB about how unfair it all is sounds a bit like my 15 year old telling me it's not fair that he has to do the dishes.

It makes feck all difference, won't change a thing, and is just so much a waste of time.

Still, I keep hearing how unfair it is, so I guess it'll just keep happening. Coz sure, no degree of KB-ing will change anything.

And here was I thinking you were on here posting an apology plus words to the effect it's all been a big misunderstanding, as you were KBers.

Damn!

[bogan]

Had a thought today.

Careful, the higher ups frown upon that sort of thing.


All this shit on KB about how unfair it all is sounds a bit like my 15 year old telling me it's not fair that he has to do the dishes.

It makes feck all difference, won't change a thing, and is just so much a waste of time.

Still, I keep hearing how unfair it is, so I guess it'll just keep happening. Coz sure, no degree of KB-ing will change anything.

Was a time when you posted quite intelligent stuff, alas, this thread has done you no credit. We all know the reduction in speed tolerance is bullshit, will knowing it change anything? probably not, is it a huge disappointment such things are being pushed through anyway? certainly, is it a disappointment cops are towing the line, certainly, is it surprising? no, and that is the biggest disappointment of all.

[scumdog]

is it a disappointment cops are towing the line, certainly, is it surprising? no, and that is the biggest disappointment of all.


Get some new cops then, - hell, in four years you could have MY job!!

(BTW, so, since this 'tickets for 104+' came in how many have got a ticket for 105 - 110kph??)

[bogan]

Get some new cops then, - hell, in four years you could have MY job!!

(BTW, so, since this 'tickets for 104+' came in how many have got a ticket for 105 - 110kph??)

Ah yes, nobody speak out against an unjust law until the degrees of separation bring it too close to home. With straw men arguments like that you guys really don't have a leg to stand on trying to defend this crap do you? If you do, you'll be able to answer this question; how is a long term reduction of the speed limit tolerance to a value lower than the specified speedo accuracy in many vehicles supposed to increase driver safety?

[rastuscat]

Ah yes, nobody speak out against an unjust law until the degrees of separation bring it too close to home. With straw men arguments like that you guys really don't have a leg to stand on trying to defend this crap do you? If you do, you'll be able to answer this question; how is a long term reduction of the speed limit tolerance to a value lower than the specified speedo accuracy in many vehicles supposed to increase driver safety?

Interested in some research?

290702

Actually read it before commenting.

[Robbo]

Get some new cops then, - hell, in four years you could have MY job!!

(BTW, so, since this 'tickets for 104+' came in how many have got a ticket for 105 - 110kph??)

Scummy, i don't believe that too many tickets will be issued in the 105 to 110 range because i hope that sensible discretion will apply. Having said that, the problem that i have is the govt. media hype in regard to this 4km/h over when there are so many other more serious issues on our roads. This certainly points to revenue collecting. If they were to put the same effort and media coverage on tailgating, red light running, mobile phone use, failing to stop or give way at intersections, driving at dangerous speeds etc. etc. just to name a few then this would give the public more awareness to these issues and may help to prevent some serious accidents or deaths. This would get more attention and respect from me.
Surely you guys who are out on the roads can point this out to the idiots in their little offices who dream up these crazy ideas and think they are saving us from ourselves.
Here's hoping for a sensible outcome on our roads this summer but i won't be holding my breath.:lol:

[Ocean1]

Interested in some research?

I'm interested in the accident rate at which you decide the speed's OK.

One every 10,000k? One every 100,00k?

'Cause if you don't have an objective then you don't have a reason to restrict speed at all.

So what is it?

[Scuba_Steve]

Interested in some research?

Actually read it before commenting.

OK read it, 2 major flaws stand out.
Fact still remains it is MUCH safer to watch the road than a speedo in-fact studies suggest upto 80% safer
Humans possess this natural 'power' some call it "self preservation" in simple terms people don't want to die & will try and avoid it. Strange I know... But left to themselves humans will travel at around the same speed (even mentioned in your "facts" to be safer) & a safe one for the roads/conditions.

Then there this...
SWOV has calculated that in crashes between two passenger cars the number of fatalities among drivers would be reduced by a quarter if all passenger cars were to be of the same mass
If safety is soo important to them why don't they do something about weights? they claim it'll save alot more lives than this scam has ever been predicted to save

[Dave-]

If safety is soo important to them why don't they do something about weights? they claim it'll save alot more lives than this scam has ever been predicted to save

Let me indulge myself here, the thought patterns of the mentally ill are often fascinating.

Steve, if you were in charge, would all vehicles on NZ roads be 50cc scooters? or B-Trains?

On one hand moving house would be easy, but on the other the logistics of transporting a combine harvester piece by piece would be difficult. Do you have a solution to this problem?

[bluninja]

Interested in some research?

290702

Actually read it before commenting.

Nothing new here. Drive a 40 tonne truck and you'll survive almost every collision unless you hit another 40 tonne truck. Have a tractor on the road at 60 kmh and other vehicles driving at 100 kmh and you have more accident risk and higher impact speeds going in the same direction.

If you could separate traffic streams by mass and maintain a narrow speed difference in the traffic stream then accident rates and injuries/deaths in those accidents would decrease. Oh and no head-ons because all traffic is unidirectional in it's stream. But why go for the "proper" fix when you can spend less on roads and recover more money from fines without making a significant dent in the road toll.

Strange that in the EU that the deaths due to traffic accidents are lower than NZ, despite the speed limits being higher 110-130 kph.....sort of flies in the face of all that research.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/9789264183896-en/01/06/index.html;jsessionid=97t37ei8gnkj.x-oecd-live-02?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/9789264183896-9-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/23056088&accessItemIds=/content/book/9789264183896-en&mimeType=text/html

also here's an interesting read from the WHO (http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_status/2013/en/index.html)if you can't get to sleep...just select the full report link (10 MB PDF)

[bogan]

Interested in some research?

290702

Actually read it before commenting.

Another straw man argument? that is about speed vs crash rate/damage, nothing about tolerance that could see in there. My question was about the tolerance, and how it is getting below the levels of speedo accuracy, don't you think that might increase a bit of road rage? don't you think that might increase the time drivers spend looking at their speedo? Do you think a month or two into it driver habits will have changed at all?
I mean the whole point of this exercise originally seemed to be either about revenue gathering, or short stints on holidays to just bring speed to peoples attention; with an extended period it is very unlikely to have the same effect on the latter point.

But if you want to get into wider topics, do you think the huge emphasis on the speed limits is creating a false sense of security for people who drive to them instead of the road conditions?

[bluninja]

Let me indulge myself here, the thought patterns of the mentally ill are often fascinating.

Steve, if you were in charge, would all vehicles on NZ roads be 50cc scooters? or B-Trains?

On one hand moving house would be easy, but on the other the logistics of transporting a combine harvester piece by piece would be difficult. Do you have a solution to this problem?

In Holland they have dedicated cycle lanes physically separate (no white line shit) that can be used by scooters and small capacity motorbikes. Helps congestion, reduces the biggest mass differentials in crashes, and not too expensive.

In towns you increase 1 way systems to reduce the number of collisions with oncoming vehicles, and pedestrians only need to look for traffic in 1 direction.

[Scuba_Steve]

How bout some Facts from John Lambert, a man with over half a century in road safety including Manager at Road Safety for Vic Roads. Here's some of his credentials
Group Manager, Regulation Strategies VicRoads (then the RTA)
Senior Manager Special Projects VicRoads
Manager of Road Safety Research and Investigations VicRoads
Technical manager Rail and Road transport BHP Transport
Manager Accident Mitigation and Operational Safety Roaduser International
Member Australasian College of Road Safety
Member Forensic Engineering Society Of Australia
Member Focusdriven

Don't worry they also have a police gang member (head of cameras in Vic) giving his "facts"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPD0EgbLnec

[Scuba_Steve]

Let me indulge myself here, the thought patterns of the mentally ill are often fascinating.

Steve, if you were in charge, would all vehicles on NZ roads be 50cc scooters? or B-Trains?

On one hand moving house would be easy, but on the other the logistics of transporting a combine harvester piece by piece would be difficult. Do you have a solution to this problem?

you must find yourself immensely amusing then I'm sure

50cc scooter or B-Trains? B-Trains of-course, 1stly Trucks are awesome, 2ndly it would solve most the problem in itself as only a few (relatively) would care to drive them.

Now go back & read it, it quite clearly states "all passenger cars"

[Dave-]

you must find yourself immensely amusing then I'm sure

50cc scooter or B-Trains? B-Trains of-course, 1stly Trucks are awesome, 2ndly it would solve most the problem in itself as only a few (relatively) would care to drive them.

Now go back & read it, it quite clearly states "all passenger cars"

You don't know what fascinating means do you? Wow that is special.

Loved the answer buddy, keep up the finger painting and soft foods.

Oh, so in your passenger vehicles, that all weigh the same weight, how many people are you allowed? and how fat can they be? If one guy was too fat could he be divided and transported in parts? (see combine harvester)

How heavy can a hearse be? What if I decided that the weight limitation was a retarded idea thought up by a stupid person and I instead bought a van, or a ute, or some other vehicle in the Gray area around passenger vehicles and used it as a passenger vehicle without the ridiculous weight restriction? would I be ticketed? ticketed for driving a vehicle that was too heavy in a passenger like manner. Who would govern what is and isn't a passenger vehicle? Fuck if only there was an easier way to reduce momentum in an accident....some sort of pedal you could not push so hard so as to not go too fast....if only.

[chasio]

How bout some Facts from John Lambert, a man with over half a century in road safety including Manager at Road Safety for Vic Roads. Here's some of his credentials
Group Manager, Regulation Strategies VicRoads (then the RTA)
Senior Manager Special Projects VicRoads
Manager of Road Safety Research and Investigations VicRoads
Technical manager Rail and Road transport BHP Transport
Manager Accident Mitigation and Operational Safety Roaduser International
Member Australasian College of Road Safety
Member Forensic Engineering Society Of Australia
Member Focusdriven

Don't worry they also have a police gang member (head of cameras in Vic) giving his "facts"


I LOL'd at the speed/speeding debate with Mr McWhirter.

Like many others, if I saw strict policing of mobile phone use, tailgating, red light running and the like, I could stomach strict policing of speed. But since so much really dangerous road use goes uncorrected (maybe because it is less empirically based and so more open to challenge), the focus on speed stinks of (a) the pollies being able to say "see, we are doing something" and (b) revenue collection. And that erodes public confidence that it is being done for the right reasons.

[Bassmatt]

I went for my first decent trip on the open road since the new tolerance came in.
Its going to be a looong slow two months if yesterday is anything to go by.

[R650R]

"...and you'll survive almost every collision unless you hit another 40 tonne truck..." not sure what percentage you call almost every other collision but let me asure you hitting anything in a truck is not a risk free experience. Steer axles are only held on by a couple of half inch bolts, these and other important stuff like brakes and electrics are located right about where most wayward cages decide to park. Been there, done that and wasn't fun...

But now you've reminded me of the LOWER speed limits they have for trucks in UK on normal two lane roads. While the cars are allowed to do 60mph the trucks are only supposed to go 40mph. It's poorly policed though so in effect most of the trucks travel around 47-50mph. I hate to give one to Rastus but you know what, I felt safer on their version of a main road compared to here as there was no hurry. They do have a more extensive network of motorways and dual carriageways with barriers but often you still have to use the ordinary roads to cover ground to where your going. But this backs up my argument about how the govt doesn't care about road safety, only votes. They would never restrict trucks the same way over here as it would affect economic productivity too much.

I think what steve was highlighting in that other post was these boffins in offices spend too much time complex analysing stuff when really it boils down to simple stuff like our poor driver training.
Quoting EU stats and stuff isn't very accurate either. If you've ever spent a decent amount of time over there you'd know that the congestion is so bad your often never going fast enough to crash. And some of the individual member countries would have crash rates as bad or worse than in NZ... I think congestion has been the major reducer or road crashes in NZ in last ten years and not and fancy laws or improvements they claim to have made.
Just look for example at the manawatu gorge, when I bought my 750 you could rock through there at a fun pace with admittedly high potential for something to happen. Now there is so much traffic and tourists its a defacto 60k zone...

[Damantis]

I don't know why everyone is getting so uptight. So when the detector goes off or we see a patrol car or speed camera, we shed an extra 5kph of speed more than previously.

Better living, everyone.

[craigdek]

Saw all those road signs on the way to Wellington. Besides the missing extra 20km/h I'm missing here opposed to where I come from there was also the lack of bullet holes in road signs.

Sent from my ZTE R22 using Tapatalk

[Zedder]

I don't know why everyone is getting so uptight. So when the detector goes off or we see a patrol car or speed camera, we shed an extra 5kph of speed more than previously.

Better living, everyone.

You got a detector to stop being pinged by the speed scam. If there wasn't a scam ya wouldn't have had to.

Do you enjoy having to slow down and therefore impede your journey because of the detector going off or you seeing a patrol car etc? It's going to be worse than before the lower tolerance came in.

More impeded, pissed off riders/drivers everyone.

[breakaway]

Interested in some research?

290702

Actually read it before commenting.

I'm not going to accept that as a valid argument. By that logic, why don't we just reduce speed limits to 80 km/h and make things even safer? Apparently at 80 km/h, risk of fatality is 58% or so, while at 100 km the risk is near 90%.

[caspernz]

I don't know why everyone is getting so uptight. So when the detector goes off or we see a patrol car or speed camera, we shed an extra 5kph of speed more than previously.

Better living, everyone.

Yep, and add taking the roads less travelled and the fun factor remains the same. Or maybe I'm just taking the right happy pills? :banana:

[Berries]

I'm not going to accept that as a valid argument. By that logic, why don't we just reduce speed limits to 80 km/h and make things even safer? Apparently at 80 km/h, risk of fatality is 58% or so, while at 100 km the risk is near 90%.
I'll make a prediction. Within two or three years the open road speed limit in NZ will be 90km/h, with the exception of some parts of the Auckland motorway system that will remain at 100km/h. And that'll be on the good state highways. Anything a little bit twisty will be 80km/h.

[Zedder]

Yep, and add taking the roads less travelled and the fun factor remains the same. Or maybe I'm just taking the right happy pills? :banana:

Lol, until the cops work out they need to target the roads less travelled 'cos the public are using them more and revenue's dropping on the main roads.

Maybe "head in the sand a bit" pills.

[James Deuce]

Lol, until the cops work out they need to target the roads less travelled 'cos the public are using them more and revenue's dropping on the main roads.

Maybe "head in the sand a bit" pills.

Doesn't happen. 99.95% of the "general public" stick to the roads more traveled. Very few people are passionate about the journey, more but still few in the scheme of things are passionate about their mode of transport, but most have a car to get from point A to points B, C, and D. Points F-Z are never considered and point E is reached 1-3 times a year, usually at a pace that drives others mental and involves occupying the left lane of every set of overtaking lanes or slow vehicle passing lanes at 120 km/hr unless they are on a twisty mountain pass whereupon they will use the entire width of both lanes to safely traverse the mighty and dangerous mountain pass at 30 km/hr.

Motorcyclists are increasingly regarded as weirdly tied to their vehicles. For most, cars and scooters are appliances and a growing percentage of young uns don't give a rat's arse about owning any sort of vehicle, preferring urban living and public transport to suburban sprawl.

There's no speeding scam. Just laws that don't quite limit vehicular carnage to a level to encompass the lowest common denominator.

If you can't work within or around the road laws you have no business being enticed by motorcycling. A third of riding a bike is being different. The second third is openly displaying to other road users that your scrotum or labia is bigger than theirs. The last is being clever enough to know when and where to have some fun.

[caspernz]

Lol, until the cops work out they need to target the roads less travelled 'cos the public are using them more and revenue's dropping on the main roads.

Maybe "head in the sand a bit" pills.

Meh, radar detector combined with a modicum of common sense beats that sad drum you're banging any day of the week, and twice on Sundays :wacko:

[Zedder]

Meh, radar detector combined with a modicum of common sense beats that sad drum you're banging any day of the week, and twice on Sundays :wacko:

Refer to my post number 328 in reply to Damantis and radar detectors.

[Zedder]

Doesn't happen. 99.95% of the "general public" stick to the roads more traveled. Very few people are passionate about the journey, more but still few in the scheme of things are passionate about their mode of transport, but most have a car to get from point A to points B, C, and D. Points F-Z are never considered and point E is reached 1-3 times a year, usually at a pace that drives others mental and involves occupying the left lane of every set of overtaking lanes or slow vehicle passing lanes at 120 km/hr unless they are on a twisty mountain pass whereupon they will use the entire width of both lanes to safely traverse the mighty and dangerous mountain pass at 30 km/hr.

Motorcyclists are increasingly regarded as weirdly tied to their vehicles. For most, cars and scooters are appliances and a growing percentage of young uns don't give a rat's arse about owning any sort of vehicle, preferring urban living and public transport to suburban sprawl.

There's no speeding scam. Just laws that don't quite limit vehicular carnage to a level to encompass the lowest common denominator.

If you can't work within or around the road laws you have no business being enticed by motorcycling. A third of riding a bike is being different. The second third is openly displaying to other road users that your scrotum or labia is bigger than theirs. The last is being clever enough to know when and where to have some fun.

The info posted on this thread eg: The video featuring John Lambert and earlier info about the distraction component being mistaken for speeding as a factor in crashes suggest there is a scam.

Iirc, Scuba Steve and Rastuscat once posted about a deferrment experiment to do with not fining bikers who broke the road rules. To my knowledge, that was a complete failure and it was clear tptb wanted the revenue.

Yesterday, I rode the State Highway 16 and SH 1 loop, which I do several times every week and on weekends. Since the lower tolerance I have noticed the traffic volume has increased a lot on SH 16 while SH 1 has reduced.

[James Deuce]

SH16 isn't the road less traveled and most people can't ride/drive competently, despite what their ego tells them. No scam, just idiot road users. As suggested by your distraction conspiracy.

Oh, and anyone who has worked for VicRoads is suspect in regard to integrity.

[Zedder]

SH16 isn't the road less traveled and most people can't ride/drive competently, despite what their ego tells them. No scam, just idiot road users. As suggested by your distraction conspiracy.

Oh, and anyone who has worked for VicRoads is suspect in regard to integrity.

State Highway 16 is a road less traveled, it is also promoted as an alternative route to SH1 during holiday periods.

Conspiracy? The guy who researched it, and wrote books on the subject, is a 20 year veteran in transportation human factors and ergonomic research.

If Lambert did once work for VicRoads why is he now slagging them? It looks like he's seen there's a problem.

[caspernz]

If you can't work within or around the road laws you have no business being enticed by motorcycling. A third of riding a bike is being different. The second third is openly displaying to other road users that your scrotum or labia is bigger than theirs. The last is being clever enough to know when and where to have some fun.

Bingo, you got my point of view in one easy paragraph. Seems the last part is lost on many...:innocent:

[James Deuce]

SH16 isn't. I would suggest, and could probably research it without much trouble but really can't be bothered arguing the point with conspiracy nutters, that SH16 sees more traffic in a weekend day between Te Atatu and Helensville than SH2 between Featherston and Masterton at peak weekday times. The road less traveled is relative, but there is no way I would consider any commuter dormitory feeder SH near Auckland as lightly traveled. Ever.

Distraction is just part of the bad rider/driver equation. There's no scam. People don't see distraction or tiredness as issues. Speed and the consequences of its inappropriate use are much easier to demonstrate. As are those related to Drunk/Drugged driving. The "scam" is called "fighting a battle you have a faint hope of arriving at a companionable draw instead of catastrophic defeat".

My opinion is that people are entitled dicks and hold fast to the right to risk the lives of their passengers and the other road users they share the road with at all times, up to and including causing their own death. Getting exercised about laws around road use is pointless. All laws are metaphorical ambulances at the bottom of precipitous virtual cliffs. The only people who can change laws are road users who demonstrate statistically that they drive/ride well enough to be trusted. That takes time, commitment, and the thing that people shy away from most: personal responsibility.

[Zedder]

Bingo, you got my point of view in one easy paragraph. Seems the last part is lost on many...:innocent:

But I never wrote it was about motorcycling, I include all traffic. Seems that was lost on you.

[James Deuce]

But I never wrote it was about motorcycling, I include all traffic. Seems that was lost on you.

It was lost on me, but I've never been any good with people.

[Zedder]

SH16 isn't. I would suggest, and could probably research it without much trouble but really can't be bothered arguing the point with conspiracy nutters, that SH16 sees more traffic in a weekend day between Te Atatu and Helensville than SH2 between Featherston and Masterton at peak weekday times. The road less traveled is relative, but there is no way I would consider any commuter dormitory feeder SH near Auckland as lightly traveled. Ever.

Distraction is just part of the bad rider/driver equation. There's no scam. People don't see distraction or tiredness as issues. Speed and the consequences of its inappropriate use are much easier to demonstrate. As are those related to Drunk/Drugged driving. The "scam" is called "fighting a battle you have a faint hope of arriving at a companionable draw instead of catastrophic defeat".

My opinion is that people are entitled dicks and hold fast to the right to risk the lives of their passengers and the other road users they share the road with at all times, up to and including causing their own death. Getting exercised about laws around road use is pointless. All laws are metaphorical ambulances at the bottom of precipitous virtual cliffs. The only people who can change laws are road users who demonstrate statistically that they drive/ride well enough to be trusted. That takes time, commitment, and the thing that people shy away from most: personal responsibility.

Once again, it's not a conspiracy about distraction. My point is, and backed by research, all too often speeding has got the blame for crashes. However, there's other factors. That's the facts.

[rastuscat]

I LOL'd at the speed/speeding debate with Mr McWhirter.

Like many others, if I saw strict policing of mobile phone use, tailgating, red light running and the like, I could stomach strict policing of speed. But since so much really dangerous road use goes uncorrected (maybe because it is less empirically based and so more open to challenge), the focus on speed stinks of (a) the pollies being able to say "see, we are doing something" and (b) revenue collection. And that erodes public confidence that it is being done for the right reasons.

Ya see, that's the problem with such a narrow focus on one topic.

The Popos do a shit load more than just write speeding tickets. I totally agree with the above, where I think it was Skoober who said that distraction is the big issue.

My section writes feck all speeding tickets, but a shit load of cellphone, stop sign, seatbelt and traffic light offences. I don't have them do that to suck up to KB keyboard warriors, I happen to believe that's the bigger issue. Basic, fundamental bad driving habits.

I also happen to believe in the speed thing in general, but happen to believe that there are enough Popos doing it without my troops's input. So we do other stuff as quoted.

Ironic, coz each time we interact with some distracted driver, they call us revenue gathering tax collectors. Anyone see a theme? I'll help.............most want the laws enforced, just not on them.

Irony in this comment too. Lots tell us how bad the drivers in NZ are, then tell us they should be allowed to drive faster. Wot? Lots of bad drivers driving faster?

Maybe I'll go start a thread about the other things we focus on, and see how much that interests people.

[Zedder]

It was lost on me, but I've never been any good with people.

Well you did focus just on the being enticed by motorcycling part so I'd agree.

[James Deuce]

Once again, it's not a conspiracy about distraction. My point is, and backed by research, all too often speeding has got the blame for crashes. However, there's other factors. That's the facts.

Duuuuh. OMG. Go for a swim off Fukushima and grow another eye, the one you've got is distracted. I SAID THAT. SHeesh. But the only ones "people" can be easily educated about with easily presented ramifications for are speed and deliberately altered personal cognition. I don't care if they call distraction speed. Or blue, purple. Until drivers take responsibility for fixing the inconvenient truth about the road toll, the law isn't going to cut you any slack. Or tell you the truth. But you know what? When you're lying on the side of the road, barely alive, staring at the sky through pinholes, none of this shit matters. Until we present an argument that we can be trusted to get from one point to another without fucking anyone's day up, you're not going to be presented with anything except a "scam".

[roogazza]

I don't know why everyone is getting so uptight. So when the detector goes off or we see a patrol car or speed camera, we shed an extra 5kph of speed more than previously.

Better living, everyone.

Thats the one ! I did Kapiti to Wgton and return last night. Very noticeable the traffic sticking to the 104.
The Falcooon being picked as a possible mufti maybe ?

Better living to U too ! lol.

[Kickaha]

Iirc, Scuba Steve and Rastuscat once posted about a deferrment experiment to do with not fining bikers who broke the road rules. To my knowledge, that was a complete failure and it was clear tptb wanted the revenue.

To "your knowledge" why was it a failure? got any facts to support that?

So why did the TPTB reduce fines a few years back if all they wanted was revenue?


Humans possess this natural 'power' some call it "self preservation" in simple terms people don't want to die & will try and avoid it. Strange I know... But left to themselves humans will travel at around the same speed (even mentioned in your "facts" to be safer) & a safe one for the roads/conditions.

Every day I see behaviour that is contrary to this

[Zedder]

Duuuuh. OMG. Go for a swim off Fukushima and grow another eye, the one you've got is distracted. I SAID THAT. SHeesh. But the only ones "people" can be easily educated about with easily presented ramifications for are speed and deliberately altered personal cognition. I don't care if they call distraction speed. Or blue, purple. Until drivers take responsibility for fixing the inconvenient truth about the road toll, the law isn't going to cut you any slack. Or tell you the truth. But you know what? When you're lying on the side of the road, barely alive, staring at the sky through pinholes, none of this shit matters. Until we present an argument that we can be trusted to get from one point to another without fucking anyone's day up, you're not going to be presented with anything except a "scam".

Calm down, I saw you wrote about conspiracy nutters which annoyed me.

The guy who wrote the book on distraction has ways to address the problems, they don't appear to be applied yet which winds me up as does what you call the easy education approach. Incidently, I certainly agree with the personal responsibility and yet when it all boils down, there's only a certain amount you can do because of factors like SMIDSY etc.

Anyway, I'm off for a motorbike ride.

[rastuscat]

Iirc, Scuba Steve and Rastuscat once posted about a deferrment experiment to do with not fining bikers who broke the road rules. To my knowledge, that was a complete failure and it was clear tptb wanted the revenue.

To your knowledge? We're doing the same thing this year, I'm rolling it out to all the Road Policing staff, with the managements approval.

Guess that shoots that shit down.

For the record, we still fine the ones we catch. But they get an option to have the fine cancelled if they go and complete a ride forever training day.

www.rideforever.co.nz for details of the course. The scheme is to have the tickets cancelled is only here in Christchurch, but that's coz I work in Christchurch. I'd run it nationwide if I thought I was God. But I ain't. It might grow, hard to see into the future.

[rastuscat]

Anyway, I'm off for a motorbike ride.

Most sensible comment I've seen all day.



The guy who wrote the book on distraction has ways to address the problems, they don't appear to be applied yet which winds me up as does what you call the easy education approach. Incidently, I certainly agree with the personal responsibility and yet when it all boils down, there's only a certain amount you can do because of factors like SMIDSY etc.

SMIDSYs and distraction are close cousins.

[Scuba_Steve]

Maybe I'll go start a thread about the other things we focus on, and see how much that interests people.

I'm sure a few of us might be, I for 1 would.
I'd like to know some good comes from NZs biggest gang everything else is "Napier division abusing power & using bully tactics to harass & intimidate" "Northland division illegally oppressing" "Speaking out about Police crimes gets you bullied" "police dealing drugs" "police step up scamming efforts" etc you know standard criminal gang stuff so be good to hear some different things for once

[rastuscat]

I'm sure a few of us might be, I for 1 would.
I'd like to know some good comes from NZs biggest gang everything else is "Napier division abusing power & using bully tactics to harass & intimidate" "Northland division illegally oppressing" "Speaking out about Police crimes gets you bullied" "police dealing drugs" "police step up scamming efforts" etc you know standard criminal gang stuff so be good to hear some different things for once

How about this.

Most people who cause crashes in NZ are not gang members, boy racers or foreigners from a certain part of the world. Most are just Mr and Mrs Average who balls something up.

So when Mr and Mrs Average lectures me about how I should go and pick on gang members, boy racers and folk from that certain part of the world, I cringe.

I'd like to carry a mirror around, and when people start to lecture me about how it's everyone else who is the problem, I can show them a picture of the person whose behavior they can and should change instantly. Them.

Not sure I'd stay employed though.

[Tazz]

Well obviously I didn't take you seriously otherwise I would have posted the link to the data...

It would have to exist for me to take you seriously there too I guess :laugh:


for all the pissing and moaning. here's what's going to happen:
fuckall.
life will go on as usual.

as much as i'd like to see the drains run with blood and piled with the charred remains of four wheeled things, there will be exactly no more, or less crashes than at any other time. ever.

now. can y'all fuck up about it.

Man you're a spoil sport. Supply something else to whinge about and we'll be all over it haha


Get some new cops then, - hell, in four years you could have MY job!!

(BTW, so, since this 'tickets for 104+' came in how many have got a ticket for 105 - 110kph??)

Eh? I thought there was a recruitment freeze? Bit tricky to jump in when the door is closed.


H
Most people who cause crashes in NZ are not gang members, boy racers or foreigners from a certain part of the world. Most are just Mr and Mrs Average who balls something up.

Yeah but unless you're sitting right beside them 24/7 watching, correcting, making cups of tea, the balls ups will still happen. They can never be completely eliminated short of just making sure people are never born in the first place? Even someone who lives in a bubble lives with risk.

Seems kinda in line with banning kids from climbing trees in case they fall and such like in a way.
Better to teach them how to do it properly/safely rather than scold them after the fact, but in fairness the rider training instead of a ticket is in line with that imo. Even both would be a good thing. I'm all for that and will be doing it, pulled over or not ;), when they hit Nelson next year.

[rastuscat]

Better to teach them how to do it properly/safely rather than scold them after the fact, but in fairness the rider training instead of a ticket is in line with that imo. Even both would be a good thing. I'm all for that and will be doing it, pulled over or not ;), when they hit Nelson next year.

Training isn't compulsory. It's voluntary. Which means that those who do it are actually the least likely to need it.

If it was compulsory there'd be a thread about how it breaches the NZ Bill of Rights Act.

It's the ones who think they are so shit hot they don't need it who could probably benefit most. Which is where the idea of incentivising training was born.

[Tazz]

Training isn't compulsory. It's voluntary. Which means that those who do it are actually the least likely to need it.

If it was compulsory there'd be a thread about how it breaches the NZ Bill of Rights Act.

It's the ones who think they are so shit hot they don't need it who could probably benefit most. Which is where the idea of incentivising training was born.

Pffft, if you think the whinging on here or in NZ is bad you should try living with the Irish.

Ideally it would be tied in with your licence training, as in to keep your licence you need to do a refresher course every X amount of years or what have you, kinda like first aid and their refreshers. Shit add a first aid course with it too :lol:
Getting people to foot the bill is the hard part, and I'd probably gripe about having to pay it till it was just the norm. We're pretty lucky compared to some places overseas with how things are now (even with the Nazi 5km h tolerance *bitch moan* :bleh:).

Mostly the old boys probably wouldn't like such things, but they had the lifetime license and all sorts yanked away from them, and they're old, so grumbling comes with the turf :bleh: :bleh:

[Zedder]

To your knowledge? We're doing the same thing this year, I'm rolling it out to all the Road Policing staff, with the managements approval.

Guess that shoots that shit down.

For the record, we still fine the ones we catch. But they get an option to have the fine cancelled if they go and complete a ride forever training day.

www.rideforever.co.nz for details of the course. The scheme is to have the tickets cancelled is only here in Christchurch, but that's coz I work in Christchurch. I'd run it nationwide if I thought I was God. But I ain't. It might grow, hard to see into the future.

Thanks for the correction, thats why I wrote iirc and to my knowledge. But faaark, I'm wrong on KB, my life is ruined.

[Jantar]

It's really easy for the management to make a media statement about how we'll be rigidly enforcing the 4 kmh tolerance.

It's another issue altogether to get the troops to buy into it.

True, but so many members of the public believe that media statement that the roads are much more dangerous now than they were one week ago.

[Zedder]

Most sensible comment I've seen all day.

SMIDSYs and distraction are close cousins.




Such a cutting response.

It looks like you're learning too, 'cos you thought inattention was the greatest causal factor in crashes in an earlier post.

[Damantis]

You got a detector to stop being pinged by the speed scam. If there wasn't a scam ya wouldn't have had to.

Do you enjoy having to slow down and therefore impede your journey because of the detector going off or you seeing a patrol car etc? It's going to be worse than before the lower tolerance came in.

More impeded, pissed off riders/drivers everyone.

But let's face it, it IS a game. A detector doesn't break the rules so is acceptable equipment for participants in the game. Anyone serious about such competition will invest in the appropriate equipment. If a player gets penalized within the rules, it's a fair cop. We start the game with 100 lives. Lose 100 lives in a rolling two year period, and you get a red card for a few months. Having to slow down and "impede" my journey is the equivalent of stopping play to hi-five my team mates! Who doesn't enjoy scoring?

It's only a scam if you believe there is something going on that is not.

Now, if the governing body decided to ban detectors and allow "hidden" speed cameras, the game would be too unfair to allow motorist to win. THEN, I'd be bleating.

[Zedder]

It would have to exist for me to take you seriously there too I guess :laugh:




Wow, all this time to catch up and that's all ya got.

Is this place just for marketing your pearls and vehicle?

[Zedder]

But let's face it, it IS a game. A detector doesn't break the rules so is acceptable equipment for participants in the game. Anyone serious about such competition will invest in the appropriate equipment. If a player gets penalized within the rules, it's a fair cop. We start the game with 100 lives. Lose 100 lives in a rolling two year period, and you get a red card for a few months. Having to slow down and "impede" my journey is the equivalent of stopping play to hi-five my team mates! Who doesn't enjoy scoring?

It's only a scam if you believe there is something going on that is not.

Now, if the governing body decided to ban detectors and allow "hidden" speed cameras, the game would be too unfair to allow motorist to win. THEN, I'd be bleating.

Lol, don't be a wimp, get rid of the detector. It's much more exciting that way.

I get what you're on about though.

[Tazz]

Wow, all this time to catch up and that's all ya got.

Is this place just for marketing your pearls and vehicle?

:baby:

Of course. I rise to your bait fully in the interests of marketing *insert other half of Tui billboard here* Oh, and apparently for trolling :lol:

Sorry I don't care enough to reply at a speed that massages your ego sufficiently ;) Chin up.

Enjoy your school holidays.

[Zedder]

:baby:

Of course. I rise to your bait fully in the interests of marketing *insert other half of Tui billboard here* Oh, and apparently for trolling :lol:

Sorry I don't care enough to reply at a speed that massages your ego sufficiently ;) Chin up.

Enjoy your school holidays.

I don't even think you have a motorbike you sad little man.

[Tazz]

I don't even think you have a motorbike you sad little man.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSk9cSfq6jFl3_zT1W8BWNUxjNtfdsL_ htGEbM-MtbV1kTj4Spijg

[Jantar]

Interested in some research?

290702

Actually read it before commenting.

OK, I did read it, and also the fact sheet on Credible limits that it links to http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_Credible_limits.pdf
where it says "Credible speed limits also have the desired effect on driving speed behaviour: a credible speed limit is obeyed better." New Zealand's speed enforcement as given via media releases is no longer credible.

I also notice that it is a Netherland's study and is contrary to this Canadian report "Review and Analysis of Posted Speed Limits and Speed Limit Setting Practices in British Columbia".
Also the document "Speed Zone Guidelines A Proposed Recommended Practice" which is an attchment to the Canadian report recommends that speed limits should be set at the 85th percentile of speeds that drivers would drive at if speed limits were NOT enforced.

[Zedder]

[QUOTE=Tazz;1130647175]/QUOTE]


What the hell's the point of posting the size of your dick/brain on here?

[Tazz]

OK, I did read it, and also the fact sheet on Credible limits that it links to http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_Credible_limits.pdf
where it says "Credible speed limits also have the desired effect on driving speed behaviour: a credible speed limit is obeyed better." New Zealand's speed enforcement as given via media releases is no longer credible.

I also notice that it is a Netherland's study and is contrary to this Canadian report Review and Analysis of Posted Speed Limits and Speed Limit Setting Practices in British Columbia.
Also he document "Speed Zone Guidelines A Proposed Recommended Practice" which is an attchment to the Canadian report recommends that speed limits should be set at the 85th percentile of speeds that drivers would drive at if speed limits were NOT enforced.

Hmm, that is a good point but wouldn't that depend a lot on the culture surrounding the speed limit as well?
One other thing NZ is let down on compared to overseas are road conditions, they are crap.
I was all for open speed limits and the like when I was younger, and then when I actually drove on the Autobahn I realized the massive difference in road conditions and (somewhat) the lack of general driving ability here in NZ in comparison (such as decent gaps left, not rushing to cut people off/space made for cars/trucks to change into your lane).

This bit was interesting:

"It must be noted, however, that the relation between speed and crash rate is much less direct and much more complicated than the relation between speed and crash severity."

I may be reaching, but is that more or less saying you can cherry pick statistics to show that speed is dangerous because when some muppet crossing the road without judging traffic correctly in a 80 or 100km h zone and gets squashed, it goes down as a tragic death, where as if said muppet did the same at 20 or 40km h the Darwin award wouldn't get handed out and as such, statistically, stupidity is deemed safer?

I know I'm cherry picking an example myself, but it makes me feel better :banana:


[QUOTE=Tazz;1130647175]/QUOTE]


What the hell's the point of posting the size of your dick/brain on here?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOD-GdvP6Ab4-k9l8CM9Pnt6eoWEPBasEXgXKV3Z3mog3zw_218Q

[Zedder]

Attention seeking? I'm not the one with the brereton blue pearls web site advertisement.

[swbarnett]

The only people who can change laws are road users who demonstrate statistically that they drive/ride well enough to be trusted.
I think you'll find that history disagrees strongly with this.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

[swbarnett]

Until drivers take responsibility for fixing the inconvenient truth about the road toll,
What's so inconvenient? We are born, we live and then we die. Some die on the roads. These are inalienable truths that cannot be changed.

[swbarnett]

So why did the TPTB reduce fines a few years back if all they wanted was revenue?
Because if the fines are lower there are fewer defaulters and they actually get more money than before. That's the theory anyway. I don't know if it actually worked.

[Akzle]

your dick/brain on here?

contrary to how youve obviously been raised, for most people, those two things are separate

[Kickaha]

Because if the fines are lower there are fewer defaulters and they actually get more money than before. That's the theory anyway. I don't know if it actually worked.

Your theory is it?

Be interesting to see a comparison between tickets issued, licences lost, vehicles impounded vs crashes the habitual offenders are involved in

[swbarnett]

Training isn't compulsory. It's voluntary.
There's the problem in a nutshell.


If it was compulsory there'd be a thread about how it breaches the NZ Bill of Rights Act.
I think you're wrong there. Does having to obtain a driver's license breach the NZ Bill of Rights Act?

[rastuscat]

There's the problem in a nutshell.


I think you're wrong there. Does having to obtain a drriver's license breach the NZ Bill of Rights Act?

Yeah, posted that coz it was quicker than saying it would lead to more whining than a cat wandering through a cell block at the SPCA.

[swbarnett]

Your theory is it?
Not entirely. Can't remember where I first heard it but it would make sense.

[Akzle]

I think you're wrong there. Does having to obtain a drriver's license breach the NZ Bill of Rights Act?

No, that act is writ by the same jews that writ the land transport, driver licensing and vehicle registration act.

Does. However impinge on the magna carta and un charter of human rights.
Innt that a bitch, the only organisation to aknowledge the defacto 'crown' rule on these islands, and that 'crown' goes and gives them the bird.

[Zedder]

contrary to how youve obviously been raised, for most people, those two things are separate

Contrary to how you were dragged up, it originally meant a comma but now is used for "or".

It's interesting you picked that post though. Did you have him lined up for a cock smoking session and got disappointed?

[jonbuoy]

Why are the government and the police so hysterical about speeding - surely they should be more concerned with clamping down on the gangs that the police seem powerless to stop? It doesn't do the NZ police public image any good, and on an international scale that kind of speed tolerance is laughable.

[Kickaha]

Why are the government and the police so hysterical about speeding - surely they should be more concerned with clamping down on the gangs that the police seem powerless to stop?
My life and most peoples would be a lot less likely to be affected by any gang member than some fuckwit doing dumb shit in a vehicle

[Kickaha]

Not entirely. Can't remember where I first heard it but it would make sense.

It would make sense if you were talking thousands of dollars of fines, not when you're talking about speeding tickets which might a few hundred if that

[jonbuoy]

My life and most peoples would be a lot less likely to be affected by any gang member than some fuckwit doing dumb shit in a vehicle

Thats true - tailgating, overtaking on blind corners, cutting off corners is dangerous. 105 in a 100 kph zone isn´t dangerous.

[Kickaha]

Thats true - tailgating, overtaking on blind corners, cutting off corners is dangerous. 105 in a 100 kph zone isn´t dangerous.

Yup but who is going to start whining about getting a ticket for tailgating or overtaking on a blind corner as compared to speeding?

[jonbuoy]

Yup but who is going to start whining about getting a ticket for tailgating or overtaking on a blind corner as compared to speeding?

They don´t seem to have "zero tolerance" week for tailgating - why not? Driving at 120 in a 100 KPH zone with the right stopping distance from the car in front is safer than sitting on someones tail at 80 KPH in a 100 zone.

[rastuscat]

They don´t seem to have "zero tolerance" week for tailgating - why not? Driving at 120 in a 100 KPH zone with the right stopping distance from the car in front is safer than sitting on someones tail at 80 KPH in a 100 zone.

Totally agree.

[Robbo]

Totally agree.

I think the biggest part of this problem is the fact that the powers to be ran a public media campaign about the 4km/h over limit and the consequences that would result if this was exceeded. This seems to have drawn our attention and focus on this one issue that we regard as minor and revenue collecting.
As Rastuscat has pointed out in an earlier post, both he and his staff are addressing the other road issues that we have voiced concern about. Because this was'nt being highlighted in the media this put it in the background and out of our minds. He also made it clear that he and his staff use sensible discretion when it comes to the issue of speeding. I hope that this is also the case country wide. I'm sure most of us would agree that excessive speed is dangerous. It was just the 4km/h over that pissed us off as it appeared to be nit picking and revenue collecting.
If future media campaigns could highlight the more serious issues one at a time this would get more attention and respect and just maybe, could have a positive result on our roads for all of us.
This is just my opinion only.
Cheers

[Berries]

I'm sure most of us would agree that excessive speed is dangerous.
Nope.

I'd agree that excessive speed can be dangerous, but then "excessive" is based on an arbitrary limit anyway. If the speed limit was 120km/h would 124km/h be as dangerous? There are times and places where 160km/h is not necessarily dangerous, just as there are times and places when 90km/h in a 100km/h zone is. It is just that one is much easier to prove than the other.

[Robbo]

Nope.

I'd agree that excessive speed can be dangerous, but then "excessive" is based on an arbitrary limit anyway. If the speed limit was 120km/h would 124km/h be as dangerous? There are times and places where 160km/h is not necessarily dangerous, just as there are times and places when 90km/h in a 100km/h zone is. It is just that one is much easier to prove than the other.

OK, excessive speed "can" be dangerous then. If the speed limit was 120km/h it would have been considered to have been a safe speed for a particular road and condition, therefore 124km/h would come into the category of 4k's over that we have been complaining about.
As for 160km/h there is no way that it could be considered to be a safe speed on our public roads as there are too many factors that can cause an incident. eg mechanical failure, tyre failure, pothole in road, animal crossing road, sudden strong wind gust etc. These speeds are best left for the track where there is a more controlled environment. I'm sure most of us have travelled in excess of 160 at some stage and thought that it was safe because we did'nt come unstuck or get caught. Luck can only last so long.

[rastuscat]

The thing about having a media campaign on the 4k tolerance is that it draws it to the front of everyones mind.

After a while it'll just become ho hum, and there'll be a need for the next gasp-factor to come along.

About 18 months is what it takes for a campaign to have the gasp-factor run out, so look out for the next big thing.

[rastuscat]

Still can't get over the rebvenue collecting thing.

If we really wanted to make some dosh, it'd be far more lucrative for us to hammer all the $150 things.

If we write lots of $30 tickets, it's take 5 times as many to just equal the $150 ones.

Believe it or not, the cop writing the ticket couldn't give a big rats arse aboyut the money.

[Robbo]

The thing about having a media campaign on the 4k tolerance is that it draws it to the front of everyones mind.

After a while it'll just become ho hum, and there'll be a need for the next gasp-factor to come along.

About 18 months is what it takes for a campaign to have the gasp-factor run out, so look out for the next big thing.

Yep, and that is exactly what has happened in this case Rastus. If it was up to you to pick the next campaign, what would you choose. Bearing in mind you will have seen some of the issues that concern many of us. My biggest complaint is tailgating as apart from the danger of being rear ended it creates a major distraction that can effect your concentration. Next would be red light runners.
Cheers

[pzkpfw]

... Next would be red light runners. ...

As with speed (i.e. speed cameras) that's something where the enforcement can be partially automated.

I'd like to see more of that stuff automated - then the flesh and blood cops out there could concentrate more on the stuff like following distance; the general behaviour stuff.

[Scuba_Steve]

Still can't get over the rebvenue collecting thing.

If we really wanted to make some dosh, it'd be far more lucrative for us to hammer all the $150 things.

If we write lots of $30 tickets, it's take 5 times as many to just equal the $150 ones.

Believe it or not, the cop writing the ticket couldn't give a big rats arse aboyut the money.

$57mil/yr to Govt, $21mil/yr (I think you said?) to your gang, only thing it's ever been shown to do for safety is have an adverse effect & that extends to the greater community too not just roads.
So if it aint for the $$$ what the hell is it for? cause it sure is hell aint for safety.

[Kickaha]

I'm sure most of us would agree that excessive speed is dangerous.
How do you define excessive speed? I would have said speed inappropriate for the conditions is what is dangerous but then I sure we all have a different idea on what that would be as well

[Robbo]

How do you define excessive speed? I would have said speed inappropriate for the conditions is what is dangerous but then I sure we all have a different idea on what that would be as well

Yep, agreed, inappropriate is probably a better description. There does, however, have to be boundaries set in regard to speed limits or we would have total anarchy on our roads. I don't have a problem with that as long as common sense and discretion prevails with both us and the enforcers.

[scumdog]

$57mil/yr to Govt, $21mil/yr (I think you said?) to your gang, only thing it's ever been shown to do for safety is have an adverse effect & that extends to the greater community too not just roads.
So if it aint for the $$$ what the hell is it for? cause it sure is hell aint for safety.


Wow, now THERE'S something we haven't heard before...:whistle::rolleyes:

A cracked record comes to mind...<_<

[tri boy]

My biggest complaint is tailgating as apart from the danger of being rear ended it creates a major distraction that can effect your concentration. Next would be red light runners.
Cheers

Mine is people who casually cut corners and drift over the centre line. (new 4x4 wagons and utes seem to be the biggest offenders)
If I was king, that would be this summers big target. Head-on accidents are messy.

[swbarnett]

have to be boundaries set in regard to speed limits or we would have total anarchy on our roads. I don't have a problem with that as long as common sense and discretion prevails with both us and the enforcers.
That's the thing. It's been shown repeatedly that removing speed limits (on open roads) actually reduces the road toll. If a driver is allowed to drive at their own comfortable speed (high or low) they're mind is going to be more engaged in the act of driving i.e fewer distracted drivers.

[scumdog]

Mine is people who casually cut corners and drift over the centre line. (new 4x4 wagons and utes seem to be the biggest offenders)
If I was king, that would be this summers big target. Head-on accidents are messy.

Yep, head-ons rarely happen when people keep to their own side of the road...

[Rhys]

Yep, head-ons rarely happen when people keep to their own side of the road...

plus one especially double yellows

[rastuscat]

That's the thing. It's been shown repeatedly that removing speed limits (on open roads) actually reduces the road toll. If a driver is allowed to drive at their own comfortable speed (high or low) they're mind is going to be more engaged in the act of driving i.e fewer distracted drivers.

Ah, if only we lived in a world where our actions effected us alone.

Right. A little old lady, with a reduced ability to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, sits in a give way, looking left and right.

She sees a car off in the distance, and judges that she is safe to go, so does.

Johnny Imalrightjack has been driving down the road feeling that his own comfortable 70 km/h is cool, he's fully in control, and that life is good. That car in the give way means that he has right of way, so it'll be her fault if she pulls out.

See what I mean? Our actions don't just impact us. They impact the decision making process of others.

Are you really saying that a driver can't be alert while driving at the posted speed limit?

[swbarnett]

Ah, if only we lived in a world where our actions effected us alone.

Right. A little old lady, with a reduced ability to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, sits in a give way, looking left and right.

She sees a car off in the distance, and judges that she is safe to go, so does.

Johnny Imalrightjack has been driving down the road feeling that his own comfortable 70 km/h is cool, he's fully in control, and that life is good. That car in the give way means that he has right of way, so it'll be her fault if she pulls out.

See what I mean?
I see exactly what you mean. However, you've missed my entire point. Iirespective of scenarios like that described above, a correlation has been shown repeatedly between removing speed limits and a reduction in the road toll.


Are you really saying that a driver can't be alert while driving at the posted speed limit?
Now we're getting somewhere. Yes, some drivers are incapable of being alert at the speed limit. Sometimes because there's too much going on and they should be driving slower (usually because of adverse weather etc.) and sometimes because they're just bored; the brain is very good at finding other things to keep it occupied

[G4L4XY]

Just wait till they see lowering the speed limit works, soon it'll drop to 90kmp/h

[Tazz]

Mine is people who casually cut corners and drift over the centre line. (new 4x4 wagons and utes seem to be the biggest offenders)
If I was king, that would be this summers big target. Head-on accidents are messy.

x 2

I ride Queen Charlotte Drive pretty much every second day and without fail I will see at least 3 cars doing this by either unnecessarily swinging wide before a corner, taking the whole damn corner in the middle of the road or swinging out wide after the corner and to hell with the rest of the traffic :facepalm: Even keeping an eye for them and driving defensively there are some corners you just can't avoid them unless you stay at home :bash:

I've seen trucks negotiate the road better than one black 'local' ute driver in particular that is on there regularly.


Ah, if only we lived in a world where our actions effected us alone.

Right. A little old lady, with a reduced ability to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, sits in a give way, looking left and right.

She sees a car off in the distance, and judges that she is safe to go, so does.

Johnny Imalrightjack has been driving down the road feeling that his own comfortable 70 km/h is cool, he's fully in control, and that life is good. That car in the give way means that he has right of way, so it'll be her fault if she pulls out.

See what I mean? Our actions don't just impact us. They impact the decision making process of others.

Are you really saying that a driver can't be alert while driving at the posted speed limit?

To be fair, short of making everywhere the same speed this will always have the potential to happen, but I'd like to think that little old lady wouldn't be on the road if she wasn't up to it, or her lack of confidence would actually cause her to wait until the road was completely clear.
It's the old man that would rev the tits out of it in first gear and pull out in front of you haha, but then (as stricter license testing and better 'training' came in with the open limit ;) ) Johnny will be scanning ahead of himself and anticipating that the little car ahead slowly rolling out is a hazard, and drive accordingly ;)

[R650R]

Yep, and that is exactly what has happened in this case Rastus. If it was up to you to pick the next campaign, what would you choose. Bearing in mind you will have seen some of the issues that concern many of us. My biggest complaint is tailgating as apart from the danger of being rear ended it creates a major distraction that can effect your concentration. Next would be red light runners.
Cheers

Tailgating/being tailgated is actually very low risk compared to other stuff unless your one of those people that plays the roadrage game of dancing on the brake pedal 'to teach people a lesson' like what certain irresponsible talkshow hosts advocate. Now I've been hit from behind once and hospitalised but it was because the driver was paying zero attention, her following distance was fine, witnesses said she braked and swerved after hitting me.
There was a good write up in one of the trucking mags some time ago about the high survival rate for even truck ramming a car, and that much worse results were often caused by the truck trying to avoid the que in front...
Tailgating is just one of those mental games you have to not let your mind take over control. And if it was dangerous the Police certainly wouldn't do it for prolonged periods while following you for longer than it takes to read number plate...

[R650R]

Ah, if only we lived in a world where our actions effected us alone.

Right. A little old lady, with a reduced ability to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, sits in a give way, looking left and right.

She sees a car off in the distance, and judges that she is safe to go, so does.

Johnny Imalrightjack has been driving down the road feeling that his own comfortable 70 km/h is cool, he's fully in control, and that life is good. That car in the give way means that he has right of way, so it'll be her fault if she pulls out.

See what I mean? Our actions don't just impact us. They impact the decision making process of others.

Are you really saying that a driver can't be alert while driving at the posted speed limit?

But Johnny Imalrightjack is actively looking for cops, cameras and old ladies and slows down briefly approaching that junction, and passes by crash free...
Meanwhile Mrs Righteous Damnation behind him is doing 48km/h and as she believe she is a safe driver she is busy distracted dialling *555 to rat on Johnny Imalrightjack. The old lady pulls out and she doesn't even brake at all and a serious crash results.
I recently went on a road trip with a female friend the Police would tought as a poster child of road safety under their belief system. She never broke the speed limit but I've never been so scared in my life, constantly mucking about with ipod and radio while driving, poor lane discipline and heaps of harsh braking. She will never be stopped by the police but imo is a high crash risk...

[Jantar]

Yep, agreed, inappropriate is probably a better description. There does, however, have to be boundaries set in regard to speed limits or we would have total anarchy on our roads. I don't have a problem with that as long as common sense and discretion prevails with both us and the enforcers......

So how come there wasn't total anarchy on the roads in Australia's NT before they introduced a speed limit of 130 kmh, down from NO limit?
And why is it that after the speed limit was introduced the road toll went up?
And please explain why the NT government is now wrong to raise the speed limit in order to reduce the road toll?

[Paul in NZ]

I wonder if this reduced tolerance will also apply to trucks.... I doubt I have seen a truck doing 90kph for a long time.....

[Scuba_Steve]

I wonder if this reduced tolerance will also apply to trucks.... I doubt I have seen a truck doing 90kph for a long time.....

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but trucks have a 4km/h tolerance all the time I believe

[Jantar]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but trucks have a 4km/h tolerance all the time I believe
A 20 kmh speed tolerance with speed cameras, but currently 14 kmh.

[Ocean1]

I wonder if this reduced tolerance will also apply to trucks.... I doubt I have seen a truck doing 90kph for a long time.....

... Or, to be slightly more seasonally relevant, caravans.

[craigdek]

At this rate you might as well stop importing vehicles with 5 gears.

Sent from my ZTE R22 using Tapatalk

[kiwi cowboy]

True, but so many members of the public believe that media statement that the roads are much more dangerous now than they were one week ago.

That's probably more to do with the state of the roads the way there deteriorating.

[Robbo]

So how come there wasn't total anarchy on the roads in Australia's NT before they introduced a speed limit of 130 kmh, down from NO limit?
And why is it that after the speed limit was introduced the road toll went up?
And please explain why the NT government is now wrong to raise the speed limit in order to reduce the road toll?


You would have to ask that question to someone who actually lives in the NT Australia and uses their roads. Possibly they have better drivers and less of them trying to share the same piece of road at the same time. Queensland is a totally different story, having spent many years living there the driving standard is shit. The M1 currently has a speed limit of 110km/h and there is carnage most days caused by inattention and travelling way over the limit at the same time. Your scenario may work on an autoban in europe where the roads are suitable for higher speeds but it sure as hell would'nt work on our shitty roads with all the everyday hazards.

[Gremlin]

Are you really saying that a driver can't be alert while driving at the posted speed limit?
Well, I for one actually hate straights. Maintaining 100kph or close to, through corners and winding sections require plenty of observation and the mind is definitely on the task.

Straight after straight? Yep, mind wanders, soooo bored, nothing to keep the mind's attention compared to winding sections. I did actually try starting a thread asking if corners or straights were more dangerous, but that wasn't too successful. Put it this way, crashes on straights are often attributed to fatigue... I head off on a ride, had plenty of sleep, good condition. Long sets of straights make me tired and bored, but I snap wide awake through corners again.

As someone has said, plenty of places where even trying to reach the speed limit is dangerous, however, plenty of places where the speed limit is simply mind numbing.

[GrayWolf]

"...and you'll survive almost every collision unless you hit another 40 tonne truck..." not sure what percentage you call almost every other collision but let me asure you hitting anything in a truck is not a risk free experience. Steer axles are only held on by a couple of half inch bolts, these and other important stuff like brakes and electrics are located right about where most wayward cages decide to park. Been there, done that and wasn't fun...

But now you've reminded me of the LOWER speed limits they have for trucks in UK on normal two lane roads. While the cars are allowed to do 60mph the trucks are only supposed to go 40mph. It's poorly policed though so in effect most of the trucks travel around 47-50mph. I hate to give one to Rastus but you know what, I felt safer on their version of a main road compared to here as there was no hurry. They do have a more extensive network of motorways and dual carriageways with barriers but often you still have to use the ordinary roads to cover ground to where your going. But this backs up my argument about how the govt doesn't care about road safety, only votes. They would never restrict trucks the same way over here as it would affect economic productivity too much.

I think what steve was highlighting in that other post was these boffins in offices spend too much time complex analysing stuff when really it boils down to simple stuff like our poor driver training.
Quoting EU stats and stuff isn't very accurate either. If you've ever spent a decent amount of time over there you'd know that the congestion is so bad your often never going fast enough to crash. And some of the individual member countries would have crash rates as bad or worse than in NZ... I think congestion has been the major reducer or road crashes in NZ in last ten years and not and fancy laws or improvements they claim to have made.
Just look for example at the manawatu gorge, when I bought my 750 you could rock through there at a fun pace with admittedly high potential for something to happen. Now there is so much traffic and tourists its a defacto 60k zone...

Here's an interesting little 'snippet' from the UK Trader magazine, giving good argument FOR increasing Motorcycle levels

Trader News
: Motorcycling must become part of mainstream transport planning to reduce casualties
Leading figures from the motorcycle industry and the police will be calling for a radical change in attitudes towards motorcycling in the UK when they address a safety conference being held today at the Department for Transport offices in London.
The conference was organised jointly by the Motorcycle Industry Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers in partnership with the Department for Transport.
It will examine perspectives from the motorcycle industry, the police, the insurance industry, other road users groups, road safety policy makers, Transport for London plus the government‟s view, via Robert Goodwill, Under Secretary of State for Transport, who is delivering the keynote speech.
Unlike previous attempts to tackle motorcycle safety, this calls for a fundamental change in how motorcycling is regarded by those responsible for transport planning. It will explore the concept and conference title: „More motorcycles could reduce casualties?‟ while identifying the limitations of continuing with the current tendency to just tackle safety through sporadic campaigns.
Delegates will be presented with data which shows „volume breeds relative safety‟. This highlights the fact that:
The UK has the lowest ownership of powered two wheelers (PTWs) in Europe but proportionately has one of the highest rates of fatal accidents measured against the PTW circulating Parc (fatality per 10,000 PTW).
In sharp contrast, the Netherlands has three times the number of PTWs per head of the population and yet riders are five times less likely to be killed than riders in the UK (using the same measure).
The highest rate of PTW ownership in Europe is in Greece at 33%, and yet the fatality rate is still proportionately nearly a third of the UK rate.

10% seems to be a critical tipping point, according to Jacques Compagne, the Secretary General of ACEM – Association of European Motorcycle Manufacturers, who will address delegates. Using source data from the International Traffic Safety Data and Analysis Group IRTAD, he will argue that when at least 10% of road traffic is made up of PTWs, safety outcomes for riders improve considerably.
The correlation between high PTW ownership and less serious accidents quantifies the key findings from research by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

(OECD) which recommended (as far back as 2008) that the way to reduce casualties significantly is to include motorcycles in mainstream transport policy.
10% is also a critical point at which research in Europe has shown that motorcycles can help cities keep moving. Delegates will hear about the study carried out on a particularly congested route in Belgium, which found that when 10% of car drivers swapped to motorcycles – congestion was reduced for all road users by 40%. When 25% of car drivers swapped - congestion was eliminated altogether. (Source – Transport & Mobility Leeven).
New models of small motorcycles and scooters can do up to 160mpg and there is a good range of electric motorcycles which have the added benefit of being able to be charged at a normal plug socket. These are ideal for commuting.
Powered two-wheelers could play a significant role in helping to ease urban congestion, which is predicted to get worse, but they need to be encouraged and included in mainstream transport policy, in the same way that cycling is, to ensure better safety for UK riders.
Steve Kenward, CEO of the Motorcycle Industry Association says this conference should be the beginning of a process of change: "Today will mark the start of a serious dialogue to explore how motorcycling can become part of mainstream transport policy. We are hopeful that the process of integrating and embracing motorcycling into the transport mix, in the way that cycling is, and will see an end to policies which have historically sustained a vulnerable environment for motorcyclists.”

[caspernz]

I wonder if this reduced tolerance will also apply to trucks.... I doubt I have seen a truck doing 90kph for a long time.....

Haha, the vast majority of trucks are speed limited in the 90-95 range. Mine will do 93 and yet I've been accused of doing 110 on the flat. The GPS printout will quickly show me speeding along at 90, thus calling BS on the accuser or showing the woeful optimism of their tintop speedo...

And Scuba is correct, we've been at a lower tolerance for quite some years. And yup the new cameras will pick trucks off at 95.

[chasio]

Ya see, that's the problem with such a narrow focus on one topic.

The Popos do a shit load more than just write speeding tickets. I totally agree with the above, where I think it was Skoober who said that distraction is the big issue.

My section writes feck all speeding tickets, but a shit load of cellphone, stop sign, seatbelt and traffic light offences. I don't have them do that to suck up to KB keyboard warriors, I happen to believe that's the bigger issue. Basic, fundamental bad driving habits.

I also happen to believe in the speed thing in general, but happen to believe that there are enough Popos doing it without my troops's input. So we do other stuff as quoted.

Ironic, coz each time we interact with some distracted driver, they call us revenue gathering tax collectors. Anyone see a theme? I'll help.............most want the laws enforced, just not on them.

Irony in this comment too. Lots tell us how bad the drivers in NZ are, then tell us they should be allowed to drive faster. Wot? Lots of bad drivers driving faster?

Maybe I'll go start a thread about the other things we focus on, and see how much that interests people.

If I ever get a ticket I wont be whinging about it. In nearly 30 years and I'd guess close to a million kms, I have never been stopped, so I must be due to pay something by now :) But seriously, I don't get stopped because I don't attract attention to get me stopped. Pretty simple.

Your threads on centreline, Op Mataki and training courses leading to a cancelled ticket, and others, have been well received because they show common sense.

The core of this brouhaha for me is that excessive focus on a speedo is a potential distraction for all road users and may actually cause accidents. And in that sense the policy lacks common sense.

Coffee with your doughnuts?

[rastuscat]

I wonder if this reduced tolerance will also apply to trucks.... I doubt I have seen a truck doing 90kph for a long time.....

Trucks have had a 4kmh tolerance for at least 2 years. Anything towing a trailer too.

[Jantar]

Looks like the police aren't winning many friends. http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9492617/Critics-doubt-effect-of-speed-campaign

[scumdog]

Looks like the police aren't winning many friends. http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9492617/Critics-doubt-effect-of-speed-campaign

Fuck, it's Stuff M. - EVERYTHING they publish about cops is negative, it's what they do.

(They would turn a cop rescuing a baby from a river into "Cop almost drowns baby" story...)

[Scuba_Steve]

Fuck, it's Stuff M. - EVERYTHING they publish about cops is negative, it's what they do.

(They would turn a cop rescuing a baby from a river into "Cop almost drowns baby" story...)

Someone seems alittle upset... Hows the river coming along? :crybaby:

[scumdog]

At this rate you might as well stop importing vehicles with 5 gears.

Sent from my ZTE R22 using Tapatalk

True, already all but 1st gear are obsolete on my truck...

[rastuscat]

Looks like the police aren't winning many friends. http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9492617/Critics-doubt-effect-of-speed-campaign

Two seconds to check your speedos?

Really? 290821

[Tigadee]

Looks like the police aren't winning many friends. http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9492617/Critics-doubt-effect-of-speed-campaign

I like this comment:

It would seem to me that there has been a vast misunderstanding by the general public that needs clearing up immediately. The public currently believe that in 1992 the traffic patrol was folded into the police.

This is clearly patently untrue. Obviously what really happened is that the police got folded into the traffic patrol. This is why the only criminals police focus on any more are those dangerous lunatics creeping a few km over the speed limit.
:lol:

[rastuscat]

Apparently TV North Pole didn't show all the media releases.

290827

[scumdog]

Someone seems alittle upset... Hows the river coming along? :crybaby:
Upset?
Not me - I'm just amused at Stuff et al and their constant whining about cops - sorta like KB...:shifty:

I wonder what else they would bleat about if cops didn't exist??

[oneofsix]

Upset?
Not me - I'm just amused at Stuff et al and their constant whining about cops - sorta like KB...:shifty:

I wonder what else they would bleat about if cops didn't exist??

Nah on KB the cops get to reply, makes it all that much more amusing.

There's plenty of other stuff to bleat about besides cops, sorry but you are just not that important. We will still have ACC and of course the root of it all, the grubbermint.

[nzmikey]

But Johnny Imalrightjack is actively looking for cops, cameras and old ladies and slows down briefly approaching that junction, and passes by crash free...
Meanwhile Mrs Righteous Damnation behind him is doing 48km/h and as she believe she is a safe driver she is busy distracted dialling *555 to rat on Johnny Imalrightjack. The old lady pulls out and she doesn't even brake at all and a serious crash results.
I recently went on a road trip with a female friend the Police would tought as a poster child of road safety under their belief system. She never broke the speed limit but I've never been so scared in my life, constantly mucking about with ipod and radio while driving, poor lane discipline and heaps of harsh braking. She will never be stopped by the police but imo is a high crash risk...

When the Fuck were you in the car with my wife without me ??

[Zedder]

Nah on KB the cops get to reply, makes it all that much more amusing.

There's plenty of other stuff to bleat about besides cops, sorry but you are just not that important. We will still have ACC and of course the root of it all, the grubbermint.

Yep Oo6, bleating about the cops is a bit like blaming soldiers for wars.

Regarding the grubbermint, I was just reading about the changes to the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act which come into force on December 18. It'll be interesting to see what actual affect it has on the situation.

[Naki Rat]

Having just done an overnight trip NP to AKL and return the effects of the <4kmh limit was pretty obvious and in many cases didn't make for safer driving.

Our Commodore's speedo is good to within a km or two, confirmed by the GPS. Other than the prevalence of vehicles travelling at little more than 90kmh (due to over-reading speedos?) the most common hazard was drivers that overtook at 105km or little more and took most of a passing lane to do so, or some that overtook at a more reasonable speed (up to 120kmh) but then slowed rapidly once they had passed the slower vehicle thereby closing the gap for following overtaking vehicles to move into. Combined with the prevalence of slower vehicles this made for some 'interesting' manoeuvres :crazy: :eek5: even in relatively light traffic flows.

Plenty of coppers and tax cameras out and about so the government coffers will benefit but I doubt it will have the miraculous effect on the road toll that the PTB envisage. I for one will be leaving all but essential out of town trips until this 'road safety' strategy is over.

[Zedder]

Having just done an overnight trip NP to AKL and return the effects of the <4kmh limit was pretty obvious and in many cases didn't make for safer driving.

Our Commodore's speedo is good to within a km or two, confirmed by the GPS. Other than the prevalence of vehicles travelling at little more than 90kmh (due to over-reading speedos?) the most common hazard was drivers that overtook at 105km or little more and took most of a passing lane to do so, or some that overtook at a more reasonable speed (up to 120kmh) but then slowed rapidly once they had passed the slower vehicle thereby closing the gap for following overtaking vehicles to move into. Combined with the prevalence of slower vehicles this made for some 'interesting' manoeuvres :crazy: :eek5: even in relatively light traffic flows.

Plenty of coppers and tax cameras out and about so the government coffers will benefit but I doubt it will have the miraculous effect on the road toll that the PTB envisage. I for one will be leaving all but essential out of town trips until this 'road safety' strategy is over.

In the times I've been out on longer open road trips recently I've certainly noticed a change as well.

I'm heading North shortly and will compare things again.

[pritch]

The thing about having a media campaign on the 4k tolerance is that it draws it to the front of everyones mind.



That much is true but by the end of February it will be long forgotten by most. Probably fading rapidly from the public consciousness already.

This has been a long and at times earnest discussion, which is somewhat surprising to me as it's completely irrelevant to most of us. The temporary limit only affects those who normally travel between 104kph and 110kph and I'd suggest that would be a minority of KBers. If you took the Harleys out of the equation, the proportion would then likely be statistically insignificant.:whistle:

[jasonu]

Fuck, it's Stuff M. - EVERYTHING they publish about cops is negative, it's what they do.
.)

Looks like a fair article. Saying fatal accidents were far more often caused by substance abusers, tired drivers, highly reckless drivers, the very young and the very old rather than those doing 104kph sounds reasonable to me.

Having said that, Castlecliff isn't exactly the Browns Bay of Ganganui...

[Tazz]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9492617/Critics-doubt-effect-of-speed-campaign (from over the page)


Road safety campaigner Clive Matthew-Wilson...snip...


But Matthew-Wilson said about 80 per cent of fatalities occurred at speeds below the legal limit.

Just clicked. This is just population control. They're trying to thin out the herd :lol:

Seriously though, IF that quote is accurate I'd be hoping he wasn't behind this particular campaign himself, otherwise he's pretty much just invalidated it to my eye :sweatdrop

[Trade_nancy]

A 104kph tolerance is a nice idea that cannot be implemented with fair play in mind. Speedos are not manufactured to that degree of accuracy...as has been said.
My new bike says nothing about the speedo accuracy - but my older CB750 manual stated "..accurate to +/- 8% ". So 8% inaccurate from the factory. How can we maintain 3-4% accuracy? You could go 4-5% below the 100kph limit and constantly look at your speedo instead of the road. Is that safer popo? Look at your clock instead of the road? 42 years of motorcycle riding and car driving instinctively tell me NO.
Last time a cop pulled me up on the bike - about 8 months ago - I was coming up the Mt Stewart hill at 100-110. Speed built up to 116 as I went over the top and went left into a slight decline. Throttled back to about 105 when I looked down and saw the speedo. Next corner - cop car driving towards me - flashes on and passes by. Comes back and stops me. Gives me a telling off for doing 116. Time wasting fool. He did a u-turn in traffic and chases me at 120++ to not give me a ticket...for doing 116 for all of 4-5 secs. He told me - up to 110 is fine. So,..now it's dangerous to do up to 110??? What changed? Need more cash.
Bikers - keep your eyes on the road and not your speedos.

[DMNTD]

A 104kph tolerance is a nice idea ....

Agreed....

[buggerit]

Looking at the Stalker radar specs I see their accuracy is + 1.6 to -3.2kmh stationary and + - 3.2kmh mobile so it would be possible
to get a ticket at 102 kmh if you are unlucky

[R650R]

Looking at the Stalker radar specs I see their accuracy is + 1.6 to -3.2kmh stationary and + - 3.2kmh mobile so it would be possible
to get a ticket at 102 kmh if you are unlucky

Interesting, I remember a whole lot of UK camera tickets being scrapped due to similar margins with their two photo system and stripes on the road...
Wonder if anyone has ever challenged in court the true language of the offence, ie doing x amount of kilometres per HOUR. Just with the way the legal system is so exacting with language and all... Anyone involved in engineering or measurement knows that to have a credible measurement and reasonable portion of x must be measured by a device calibrated to ten times more accuracy than the measurement being made. I mean if we were being ticketed for metres per second there would be no problem but to say someone is travelling at 104 kilometres per hour after a brief microscopic measurement in time compared to an hour there is scope for technical doubt...
Something to digest, chew or spit out there anyway... :)
Giving another one away to Team Rastus here but you know we've all got one of those stories of "Some twat pulled out in front of me today, lucky I was going slow because of reason x otherwise I would have collected him..."
And in reference to an earlier remark, its not about denying the laws of physics, its just that life involves many risks, action/outdoor sports etc but only driving is so heavily regulated... There's no ACC levy or limits to the ways in which you can break bones sking or mountain climbing, playing rugby etc...

[rastuscat]

Above post is very common sense.

Anyone ever noticed that the speedo errors almost always mean that you are doing less tan you thought you are?

I had a Gilera Runner a few years back. Two stoke monster scooter. It had a speedo that was reading 70 km/h/ when you were doing 55. I spoike to a bloke who said that in Italy, TPTB made it that way so that the ego-fuelled nutters who ride them could think they were doing 70 when they were only actually doing 55. Figured.

Back in 2013, my 2009 R1200RT has a speedo that reads 108 when I am doing 100 actual. If it was indicating 100, I'd be doing about 92 actual. If it was indicating 105, I'd actually be doing maybe 98.

From these things I suspect that most speedos register optimistically. Certainly the Corollas I've had over the years are maybe 10% optimistic.

So, in fact, if someone gets tagged at 105 actual (well, as good as a calibrated radar or laser is) on the open road, their speedo would have been reading well over that, due to speedo error.

Happy to hear folks honest experience on this, given that speedo error has become such a talking point.

Anyone know what cosine angle effect is? It always means that unless the detection device is being progressed directly down the axis of travel of the target vehicle, the readout will display less than the actual speed. Another factor in the motorists factor.

http://www.copradar.com/preview/chapt2/ch2d1.html

What I guess I am getting to is that if someone gets pinged at 105, or 55 in town, they were actually doing more than that.

Just another side to the debate.

[Mom]

Tag team plod on the northern motorway today. One hell of an accident blackspot that motorway extension :scratch: particularly at "commuter hour". I travel at almost the same times every day, yesterday I saw 2 cars with naughty almost dead people (how they survived travelling at over 104kph is beyond me) being talked to on the side of the road. Thank goodness for cruise control.

I made the comment at the start of the month that it would be a great money spinner for the state at the times I commute, The comment in response was "they wont target the commuter, they will be on the open road looking for the speedsters" Tui anyone?

[buggerit]

Above post is very common sense.

Anyone ever noticed that the speedo errors almost always mean that you are doing less tan you thought you are?

I had a Gilera Runner a few years back. Two stoke monster scooter. It had a speedo that was reading 70 km/h/ when you were doing 55. I spoike to a bloke who said that in Italy, TPTB made it that way so that the ego-fuelled nutters who ride them could think they were doing 70 when they were only actually doing 55. Figured.

Back in 2013, my 2009 R1200RT has a speedo that reads 108 when I am doing 100 actual. If it was indicating 100, I'd be doing about 92 actual. If it was indicating 105, I'd actually be doing maybe 98.

From these things I suspect that most speedos register optimistically. Certainly the Corollas I've had over the years are maybe 10% optimistic.

So, in fact, if someone gets tagged at 105 actual (well, as good as a calibrated radar or laser is) on the open road, their speedo would have been reading well over that, due to speedo error.

Happy to hear folks honest experience on this, given that speedo error has become such a talking point.

Anyone know what cosine angle effect is? It always means that unless the detection device is being progressed directly down the axis of travel of the target vehicle, the readout will display less than the actual speed. Another factor in the motorists factor.

http://www.copradar.com/preview/chapt2/ch2d1.html

What I guess I am getting to is that if someone gets pinged at 105, or 55 in town, they were actually doing more than that.

Just another side to the debate.
With the advent of GPS a lot of us make adjustments for speedo error so may feel a little hard done by if ticketed round the 105kmh
mark if we think we are travelling 104 or less given the radar + - 3.2kmh margin for error.

[pritch]

I had a Gilera Runner a few years back. Two stoke monster scooter. It had a speedo that was reading 70 km/h/ when you were doing 55. I spoike to a bloke who said that in Italy, TPTB made it that way so that the ego-fuelled nutters who ride them could think they were doing 70 when they were only actually doing 55. Figured.



I don't think the Italian PTB could be so precise, Italian electrics and all that. My Ducati had a speedo that read 100kph when the bike was doing 130 actual. I'm eternally grateful that one of my mates told me before one of your mates did.:yes:

I bought a GPS to avoid mistakes with mental arithmetic.

For the record the Subaru reads 3kph fast, the Triumph reads 6kph fast.

[Gremlin]

So, in fact, if someone gets tagged at 105 actual (well, as good as a calibrated radar or laser is) on the open road, their speedo would have been reading well over that, due to speedo error.

Happy to hear folks honest experience on this, given that speedo error has become such a talking point.
Having put a GPS onto several vehicles to get an idea..

BMW GSA is around 3-5kph high of real at 110 indicated. Depends which tyres I'm running and how worn they are (you can tell the difference).
Honda CB919, 110 indicated is 100kph. By the way, these differences are obviously sliding scale, more accurate at lower speeds.
Merc C200 Wagon 2001, dead accurate at 100kph.
Toyota Rav4 2005, dead accurate at 100kph.
Holden VY Ute 2003, 100kph indicated is 102-103kph real. Only vehicle I've come across that actually under-reads. It probably shouldn't (legally speaking), and I have no idea why, as the tyres and rims are standard.

[rastuscat]

I don't think the Italian PTB could be so precise, Italian electrics and all that. My Ducati had a speedo that read 100kph when the bike was doing 130 actual. I'm eternally grateful that one of my mates told me before one of your mates did.:yes:

I bought a GPS to avoid mistakes with mental arithmetic.

For the record the Subaru reads 3kph fast, the Triumph reads 6kph fast.

Guess that coz they read fast, you'll never get a ticket based on speedo error. Until you start factoring that in, and compensate for it by going faster.

Gileras are notoriously optimistic, both in speed and maintenance.

The Duc speedo sounds dodgy. Could you really not tell it was out though? I'd have thought the fact that you were overtaking everything else would give it away.

[R650R]

With the advent of GPS a lot of us make adjustments for speedo error so may feel a little hard done by if ticketed round the 105kmh
mark if we think we are travelling 104 or less given the radar + - 3.2kmh margin for error.

I hold all you GPS lovers accountable for the extra speed enforcement. Before this technology blitz that we'll all soon b forced to have we were quite free... TomTom in USA already sells GPS data to police over there, not at an individual level but on location data of where lots of users are breaking the law, kinda the opposite of what the consumer gets about traffic jams... I'd be quite surprised if cops here aren't doing same, they seem to be on be 'good' bits of road that hey never patrolled before...
Used to work with a guy that 'calibrated' his speedo via GPS. Long story short was after he argued the point over 2 km/h on a ticket and announced his GPS it ended up in the whole company being looked at and 3 months worth of his offending being downloaded, which was quite eye opening...

[Jantar]

... The temporary limit only affects those who normally travel between 104kph and 110kph ....

Not quite, it affects those who believe they normally travel between 104 and 110 even though they normally travel between 94 and 100. It also affects those who normally travel under 100 but treat this as a 6kmh reduction. However, the total effect is drop in average speeds of considerably more than 6 kmh.

[Jantar]

...The Duc speedo sounds dodgy. Could you really not tell it was out though? I'd have thought the fact that you were overtaking everything else would give it away.

A couple of years ago I was travelling down to Lawrence to meet up with Scumdog and a few other Otago riders. I took the old RE5 for a spin, and because of its age etc I rode it quite gently at between 90 - 100 kmh indicated. The distance from Alexandra bridge to Lawrence is exactly 100 km, and as I was crossing the bridge I noted the time and thought I would be slightly late into Lawrence. During the whole trip to Lawrence I never once exceeded 100 on the speedo, yet my time to get there was 59 minutes. And, yes, I was still overtaking most other traffic.

This tells me my average speed was almost exactly (but slightly over) 100 kmh. Obviously my RE5 speedo under reads. I have since put the GPS on it, and at 50 kmh it is correct. At an indicated 100 kmh it is doing 110. At faster speeds it under reads one hell of a lot more.

[Berries]

Can the solar powered roadside speed check displays be relied on for accurate calibration as they would be a thing the public could use to check their speedo accuracty maybe?
No, they can't. I went past two within an an hour with the same speed on my digital speedo, the readings were different by 8km/h.

[Robbo]

That raises a very interesting idea Cassina. Fixed speed cameras have been installed around the country in locations that the authorities apparently consider these to be “black spots” or some other traffic hazard. Would it not make sense to install one of these highly visible digital speed checks about 1 km before each camera to bring our attention to the speed we are travelling at and to adjust it if necessary. These digital signs would have to be calibrated to the same accuracy as the cameras. If you still managed to get a speeding fine from the camera after having passed one of these warning signs then it would definitely be your own fault. These signs could be funded by the revenue collected from the cameras. I believe that by bringing the speed we are travelling at to our attention with the aid of these signs would have a noticeable effect on road speeds overall. All this bullshit about fixed speed cameras making our roads safer is just that, “bullshit” it is purely revenue collecting and does nothing to chance driving habits. Awareness is the answer.
What are your thoughts on this?

[Edbear]

Most GPS units these days are programmed with the locations of fixed speed cameras and mine also warns of schools. So if you have a GPS unit there is little excuse for getting pinged.

I set the cruise control by the GPS and it is a bit frustrating to be held up by other traffic, however you have to remember that if their speedo is reading 100km/hr, you have no grounds to criticize. My car is out by 5km/hr at 100, so to remain within the 4km/hr tolerance my speedo can be reading 109. GPS's are very accurate according to tests, so I have no concerns with using its speed reading.

Another interesting thing about using cruise control is that you will gradually pull ahead of other traffic since very few drivers can maintain their speed with any sort of consistency.

[Naki Rat]

Most GPS units these days are programmed with the locations of fixed speed cameras and mine also warns of schools. So if you have a GPS unit there is little excuse for getting pinged.

I set the cruise control by the GPS and it is a bit frustrating to be held up by other traffic, however you have to remember that if their speedo is reading 100km/hr, you have no grounds to criticize. My car is out by 5km/hr at 100, so to remain within the 4km/hr tolerance my speedo can be reading 109. GPS's are very accurate according to tests, so I have no concerns with using its speed reading.

Another interesting thing about using cruise control is that you will gradually pull ahead of other traffic since very few drivers can maintain their speed with any sort of consistency.
My previous life in surveying gives me a reasonable understanding of how GPS works and yes the speed readings they give cannot be anything but accurate. A 'cheapy' unit may give an occasional instantaneous glitch but over even just a few hundred metres the indicated speed will be spot on.

I would have to question the historic travelled data being available to law enforcement as mentioned earlier though. So far as I know our Garmin doesn't log speed or route data other than if a destination is stored manually. If it does it would be great to see where we actually were during portions of our UK road trip last year. Other than locations verified by fuel and accommodation receipts we seem to have lost track of where the hell we were at times.... and that isn't a result of distillery visits :innocent:

[roogazza]

Another interesting thing about using cruise control is that you will gradually pull ahead of other traffic since very few drivers can maintain their speed with any sort of consistency.

How true, the average person seems to have difficulty in maintaining road speed, it's very frustrating.
If you do use your cruise anywhere near other traffic it's quite noticable.
But for me it's just as noticable on the throttle, it was one of my pet hates when driver training.(along with a lot of others :laugh:)

ps I hope people aren't gazing at their GPS units when driving ? That's right up there with TXTing while driving. This is the sort of shit that should be jumped on rather than the dreaded "SPEED" of 5 kph over.

[Edbear]

How true, the average person seems to have difficulty in maintaining road speed, it's very frustrating.
If you do use your cruise anywhere near other traffic it's quite noticable.
But for me it's just as noticable on the throttle, it was one of my pet hates when driver training.(along with a lot of others :laugh:)

The range of deviation is amazing sometimes! Up to 20km/hr! And of course they slow down for anything at all that departs from the clear, level, straight and wide. :wacko:

[Zedder]

My previous life in surveying gives me a reasonable understanding of how GPS works and yes the speed readings they give cannot be anything but accurate. A 'cheapy' unit may give an occasional instantaneous glitch but over even just a few hundred metres the indicated speed will be spot on.

I would have to question the historic travelled data being available to law enforcement as mentioned earlier though. So far as I know our Garmin doesn't log speed or route data other than if a destination is stored manually. If it does it would be great to see where we actually were during portions of our UK road trip last year. Other than locations verified by fuel and accommodation receipts we seem to have lost track of where the hell we were at times.... and that isn't a result of distillery visits :innocent:

My understanding of GPS units is they store the data automatically but you need a programme for accessing it on your PC.

The rover units we use in Oz (pole mounted type) are used along with a digital geologic mapping programme on a PDA and the resulting info is very good. The pole mounted type are good for fending off Oz wildlife as well...

By the way, on my ride North yesterday, I thought all was going well until about 30 minutes from home, I rounded a corner to find a traffic stop set up. A truck in front of me was stopped but I got waved through no problem, it must have been the tigertim20 effect.

There was a motorcyclist coming South at the same time on what looked like a Repsol Honda but I didn't see what happened to them.

On the whole ride (300km) I saw two more cops doing speed checks and once again felt the traffic flow was much slower.

[R650R]

My previous life in surveying gives me a reasonable understanding of how GPS works and yes the speed readings they give cannot be anything but accurate. A 'cheapy' unit may give an occasional instantaneous glitch but over even just a few hundred metres the indicated speed will be spot on.

I would have to question the historic travelled data being available to law enforcement as mentioned earlier though. So far as I know our Garmin doesn't log speed or route data other than if a destination is stored manually. If it does it would be great to see where we actually were during portions of our UK road trip last year. Other than locations verified by fuel and accommodation receipts we seem to have lost track of where the hell we were at times.... and that isn't a result of distillery visits :innocent:

Yes the GPS units do give a reasonably accurate reading and are already accepted for this purpose in the courts via various precedents, usually only to indicate extreme driving prior to a crash though. Consumer level GPS devices are typically only accurate to within 15m (despite what the advertising waffle says) so there is leeway to argue one off peak speed recordings.
But if your going to misbehave in a vehicle with gps enabled devices or phones expect to be screwed over.
Sat in on an interesting court case with workmate, he got off on a technicality but I expect the cops learnt their lesson and next time round it will be an expensive losing battle for whoever is charged if they try to defend it...

Couldn't find a link to the usa tomtom story from couple years ago but seems the dutch suffering the same http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/27/tomtom-user-data-sold-to-danish-police-used-to-determine-ideal/

I expect we'll all soon have Eroad units fitted to cars and bikes, those are the green LEDs you see in many truck windscreens. No doubt it will be sold to joe public on the basis of only pay for what you use road tax, but theirs already been trucking companies taken to court over their own Eroad gps data. There not laughing now like when I told them in advance that it would be used for this.

[kiwi cowboy]

had a giggle when I heard the advert about the reduced limit on the radio.
I was a firkin pommy accent doing it:msn-wink:.
Could convince a kiwi to do the voicing over cos they all say scam so had to get a bloody pom to do it a:bleh::bleh::bleh:

[rastuscat]

had a giggle when I heard the advert about the reduced limit on the radio.

Have they reduced the limits? I thought we had reduced the tolerance.

The limits have always been limits, it's the tolerance that people expect that creates the nause.

[Zedder]

Have they reduced the limits? I thought we had reduced the tolerance.

The limits have always been limits, it's the tolerance that people expect that creates the nause.

Nause? Norse? Another freudian slip from our resident cops maybe as in Viking hordes pillaging the defenceless public.

[rastuscat]

Nause? Norse? Another freudian slip from our resident cops maybe as in Viking hordes pillaging the defenceless public.

Nausea. Just too chilled to complete the word just now. :banana:

[Zedder]

Nausea. Just too chilled to complete the word just now. :banana:

Right, gotcha. Nausea can be caused by many things but it's probably good to get a scam, umm I mean scan done just to be safe.

[Tazz]

Nausea. Just too chilled to complete the word just now. :banana:

Don't stress. Nause was more fitting considering the response you got XD

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nause




I expect we'll all soon have Eroad units fitted to cars and bikes, those are the green LEDs you see in many truck windscreens. No doubt it will be sold to joe public on the basis of only pay for what you use road tax, but theirs already been trucking companies taken to court over their own Eroad gps data. There not laughing now like when I told them in advance that it would be used for this.

Hitched with a owner operator trucker who had a few interesting ways around it the other month, wouldn't have changed much overall though considering the KM's they do.

Laughed at the speeding trucks comment a few pages back too though. Modern trucks are so full of electrics they can't put the radio on without it being recorded let alone speed. I was told about someone who blamed an accident on a milk tanker because they were nearby, the data was provided to the police and it was shown that there was no way the truck could have caused any accident according to it's position and the G's recorded on the corner (as it was claimed they took it to fast and crossed the line).

Talk about Big Brother.

Anyway, fanging down the coast today and not sure if I should be doing 95 or just crossing my fingers and going 175 :o

[Trade_nancy]

had a giggle when I heard the advert about the reduced limit on the radio.
I was a firkin pommy accent doing it:msn-wink:.
Could convince a kiwi to do the voicing over cos they all say scam so had to get a bloody pom to do it a:bleh::bleh::bleh:

Saw him on the teev....the head national traffic doodally for Police is actually a Pom. He looked like an attitude problem waiting for a human to occupy him. Police cap pulled down so only the darkness of his eyes showed - much like a military policeman..or some other arsehole.

[Gremlin]

Consumer level GPS devices are typically only accurate to within 15m (despite what the advertising waffle says) so there is leeway to argue one off peak speed recordings.
Depending on the GPS, it can actually tell you how accurate it currently is. I haven't looked too often on the Zumo 660 (it's not a standard reading I'm watching) but on the 550 you scrolled past it. 3-7m was common, but it also depended where you were. Heavy tree canopy etc and it could lose you for a turn or two.

[Dave-]

My understanding of GPS units is they store the data automatically but you need a programme for accessing it on your PC.

What sort of programme would that be? a fitness programme? a holiday programme for small children? or the programme for a stage show or event? I'm a little confused as to what you mean here.


Most GPS units these days are programmed with the locations of fixed speed cameras and mine also warns of schools. So if you have a GPS unit there is little excuse for getting pinged.

I set the cruise control by the GPS and it is a bit frustrating to be held up by other traffic, however you have to remember that if their speedo is reading 100km/hr, you have no grounds to criticize. My car is out by 5km/hr at 100, so to remain within the 4km/hr tolerance my speedo can be reading 109. GPS's are very accurate according to tests, so I have no concerns with using its speed reading.

Another interesting thing about using cruise control is that you will gradually pull ahead of other traffic since very few drivers can maintain their speed with any sort of consistency.

The other thing to take into account is the overshoot/undershoot of the control, plus steady state error (if any) as well as the controllers reaction to an impulse input.

This all depends so widely on the type of controller, the age of it, the road, the conditions etc. There is literally a whole industry based on controls. It's fuckin' interesting stuff too.

[kiwi cowboy]

Have they reduced the limits? I thought we had reduced the tolerance.

The limits have always been limits, it's the tolerance that people expect that creates the nause.

Ok bad choice of words ya pedantic bugger:motu::motu::girlfight:.merry christmas:whistle:

[kiwi cowboy]

Saw him on the teev....the head national traffic doodally for Police is actually a Pom. He looked like an attitude problem waiting for a human to occupy him. Police cap pulled down so only the darkness of his eyes showed - much like a military policeman..or some other arsehole.

Does he sound like a woman when he talks?;)this was a woman on the radio.

[Zedder]

What sort of programme would that be? a fitness programme? a holiday programme for small children? or the programme for a stage show or event? I'm a little confused as to what you mean here.



I'm always happy to help out:http://www.dailywritingtips.com/get-with-the-programme/

Note the Australian usage, that's where I work sometimes.

[ital916]

What reduction in limit, I saw a cop car going about 110 in an 80 today. Not going anywhere just cruising along. Reduction must only apply to us lesser citizens.:killingme

[Zedder]

Don't stress. Nause was more fitting considering the response you got XD

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nause



Interesting.

I see you're consistantly negative repping me. That's sad really, but does confirm what I thought about you originally.

[Akzle]

...the sign where the speed...signs are easily noticable...sign...more signs...

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

I saw the sign and it opened up my mind
And I am happy now living without you
I've left you, ooohhh
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
No one's gonna drag you up to get into the light where you belong

[rastuscat]

Maybe he missed the sign where the speed limit lowered. It would not be the first time that has happened to anyone. I have found between Nelson and Motueka on the old back road route the signs are easily noticable
approaching the small settlements but leaving them I never could see the sign for the speed limit going back up. Was a few years ago so they may have more signs now.

Funny double standard. Folk always manage to see the signs allowing them to go faster, but regularly miss yhe ones telling them to go slower.

Donuts.

[Tazz]

Saw one cop by the bridge in Seddon last night and that was it. Saw 10 last time I went during daylight hours. Must of sent them all up North. No complaints :lol: Didn't notice traffic going slower but, but there's always someone slower than you anyway.

Still don't agree with the lower tolerance/like to whinge about it ;), but can't say it's made much of a difference so meh.
Think they put the learner truck drivers on the road during the day though. I've never seen so many that couldn't keep it in their lane on the corners. Glad I was on the bike and not in the car.

[Jantar]

Funny double standard. Folk always manage to see the signs allowing them to go faster, but regularly miss yhe ones telling them to go slower.

Donuts.

I seem to miss them in about equal numbers. I hate to admit it, but I do, at times, find myself aware that the environment has changed, and not sure just what the speed limit is. Usually it it is shortly after entering or leaving a rural locality, so I have to make a judgement call on what I believe it is likely to be. I do like the Queensland method where the is a speed change, the speed limit sign is repeated about 1/2 km after the change.

[TimeOut]

Looking at the Stalker radar specs I see their accuracy is + 1.6 to -3.2kmh stationary and + - 3.2kmh mobile so it would be possible
to get a ticket at 102 kmh if you are unlucky

Ok Assuming this is correct I can understand getting a ticket for 105 even allowing for inaccuracy you're still over 100.

My question is if you get clocked at 112 will they drop it to 109 to get you into the lower $ and points bracket to allow for the inaccuracy :innocent:

[bluninja]

Slightly off topic...but I saw a TRANZIT bus with the big safety add on the back; "slow down in urban areas" and a speedo indicating 30. The bus is going along an urban street past a few elderly care homes and 2 schools all at 50 ish on my speedo.
I wonder if TRANZIT understand irony?

BTW on the subject of tolerances and speedos....there is an European Union rule (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:120:0040:0048:EN:PDF)a bout speedos
that requires car manufacturers set up speedos to certain tolerances...section 5.3 is telling

5.3. The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle. At the test speeds specified in paragraph 5.2.5 above, there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V 1 ) and the true speed (V 2 ).
0 ≤ (V 1 – V 2 ) ≤ 0,1 V 2 + 4 km/h

[Scuba_Steve]

Funny double standard. Folk always manage to see the signs allowing them to go faster, but regularly miss yhe ones telling them to go slower.

Donuts.

Yea but sometimes this can be attributed to the piss poor decisions from the idiots controlling the roads, like when they put the sign right on a corner where only dangerous drivers could see it

[Murray]

What amazes me is the number of times you are in a lower speed zone and you get the open road sign and within 50 mtrs theres a sharp corner! Why not put the open road sign around the corner???

And how come I really struggle to do 100 kms in an hour?? Surely if I only do 80 kms distance in an hour I should be able to tell the police I'm only doing 80 kms an hour??:yes::yes:

[Gremlin]

Funny double standard. Folk always manage to see the signs allowing them to go faster, but regularly miss yhe ones telling them to go slower.
Well, one of the interesting things I've noticed, is that the signs for lower speed zones are smaller than for higher speed zones. This seems counter intuitive to me. You're travelling at a higher speed entering a lower speed zone, the sign should be bigger so you have less chance of missing it. What good is a larger sign when you're travelling at a lower speed entering a higher speed zone?


What amazes me is the number of times you are in a lower speed zone and you get the open road sign and within 50 mtrs theres a sharp corner! Why not put the open road sign around the corner???

And how come I really struggle to do 100 kms in an hour?? Surely if I only do 80 kms distance in an hour I should be able to tell the police I'm only doing 80 kms an hour??:yes::yes:
Nothing wrong with a 100kph sign before a corner. It simply means you've left a 50kph (or whatever) and there is a higher speed. Doesn't mean you have to aim for that speed by the corner etc. Worse is the habit of merging a passing lane over a crest, corner, or even better, a combination of both.

For long distance travel, averaging more than 80kph hour upon hour is actually hard to do (assuming you're not sitting on SH1), and experienced people know to budget for less. There was this one ride of 1600km where I managed a moving average of 99kph :shifty:

[rastuscat]

And how come I really struggle to do 100 kms in an hour?? Surely if I only do 80 kms distance in an hour I should be able to tell the police I'm only doing 80 kms an hour??:yes::yes:

Cool. Drive at 180 kmh for 20 minutes. Then take a break for 40 minutes. Then tell the cop that you only did 60 kmh overall.

Best of luck with that.:2thumbsup

[rastuscat]

Ok Assuming this is correct I can understand getting a ticket for 105 even allowing for inaccuracy you're still over 100.

My question is if you get clocked at 112 will they drop it to 109 to get you into the lower $ and points bracket to allow for the inaccuracy :innocent:

The ticket is supposed to be written for the speed you were checked at.

Unless you are happy for the speed to be increased, don't expect it to be dropped into the lower fine zone.

[Zedder]

Still no income for your lot from me rtc and it's the third time this week I've been out.

Did you used to know a traffic cop called Davies who worked out west of Auckland by any chance?

[george formby]

Any one noticed a change of behaviour on the road?

Prolly just the silly season, the heat, the stress, the looming dead line etc, but things up here seem worse. I don't take the speed limit as a suggestion & normally catch traffic up but recently I'm creating tail backs. What I see in my mirrors is scary, the white line is obviously optional, too.

[R650R]

For long distance travel, averaging more than 80kph hour upon hour is actually hard to do (assuming you're not sitting on SH1), and experienced people know to budget for less. There was this one ride of 1600km where I managed a moving average of 99kph :shifty:

Yep average speeds tell the true story of someone's driving ability. Incidentally 81km/h is the magic number most drivers ermmmm 'cross reference' their driving hours logbook against, just to make sure they haven't made any 'errors'. As that is the fastest legal average speed for most journeys open road including slowing down through small towns and max speed of 90kph. In a 600HP truck you can go from Hastings to Auckland non stop on these numbers in the legal 5hr30min, but that's not mucking about either. (A car with a competant driver doing no more than 110 is only about 1hr faster). Include a few stops for fuel or quick deliveries etc and real trip average soon drops to 65ish even if you only stopped for few minutes at a time. The key to covering big km's is not speed but being prefueled and not stopping at busy places, especially during holiday periods...

[george formby]

Yup. Average speed is where it's at. Being efficient on the road. Back in the You K we used to say a thoughtless driver was belt & brake. Always hard on the gas or hard on the brakes but basically hard on everything.

[Gremlin]

The key to covering big km's is not speed but being prefueled and not stopping at busy places, especially during holiday periods...
Absolutely. You can lose time very easily, but gaining that time back is almost impossible.

In long distance riding you get some that blast out the gates, but then take long breaks as they're tired. I normally budgeted 500km in 5.5 hours and a 30min break, then do it again, when crunching big numbers on rides.

[R650R]

Absolutely. You can lose time very easily, but gaining that time back is almost impossible.

In long distance riding you get some that blast out the gates, but then take long breaks as they're tired. I normally budgeted 500km in 5.5 hours and a 30min break, then do it again, when crunching big numbers on rides.

I used to do 870kms five nights a week in the truck no worries but for some reason don't like doing the big kms on bikes even though I LOVE riding of course. Always feels wasteful to me when there are so many photo ops and places to see along the way...

[pritch]

Went to Opunake yesterday not much traffic so couldn't judge what effect the lower tolerance was having. Went to Stratford this morning and SH3 was much busier. On the way south most were sitting comfortably above the 4kph tolerance.

Interestingly, while sitting somewhat above the old tolerance minding my own business, I was passed at speed by a mufti car with disco lights ablaze. The next vehicle to be overtaken by the mufti was a Toyota ute. The high speed overtake was performed on a blind bend over double yellow lines and, it transpired, in the face of an oncoming heavy truck which caused the Police car to violently swerve back to his own side of the road narrowly missing the Toyota. I hope all this rushing about wasn't just to get back to the station before his mates ate his/her doughnut.

Some training needed perhaps? The red mist appeared to be fully descended.

The return journey was undertaken at a leisurely 85kph indicated for no good reason that I could see. There was a truck, but it was not at the front of the queue.
The radar detector was giving the occasional chirp so I just went with the flow.

[Akzle]

Always feels wasteful to me when there are so many photo ops and places to see along the way...

exactly, one must always take time to stop and smoke the flowers...

[Tazz]

Cool. Drive at 180 kmh for 20 minutes. Then take a break for 40 minutes. Then tell the cop that you only did 60 kmh overall.

Best of luck with that.:2thumbsup

Shit now you're talking! You're an ideas man :lol:

[swbarnett]

Cool. Drive at 180 kmh for 20 minutes. Then take a break for 40 minutes. Then tell the cop that you only did 60 kmh overall.

Best of luck with that.:2thumbsup
It just occurred to me that this would actually work on some European motorways. I've been told they time you between toll booths to see if you were speeding.

[R650R]

It just occurred to me that this would actually work on some European motorways. I've been told they time you between toll booths to see if you were speeding.

The poms already have such systems in place. NZ also has the capability with those new signs on the motorway, all we need to do is pay the extra for the cameras and software if we hadn't already. It will Prob be the next big thing after the 4k failure... Works via anpr and doesn't matter if you change lanes, uk ones measure over five mile distance.

[rastuscat]

Nostalgia.

The MoT used to have a thing called Digitector. Two cables set 25 metres apart on the highway. A vehicle crossed the first one, starting a clock. when it crossed the second one, it stopped the clock. The machine then worked out the speed.

The Auckland City Traffic Dept (pre merger with the MoT) used to have a thing called Truvelo. It was the same principle, but the calibrated distance was only 1.025 metres. The device calculated at 1.0 metres. The 0.025 was added to give an error allowance for the motorist.

I remember operating it on Balmoral Road. Goldfish in a bowl, even when our tolerance then (1988/1989) was 19 kmh. You had to be doing 20 over any limit to be stopped.

Yes, good old days. Only radars we had were stationary mode only. I rode an R80RT.

Feck, we've come a long way. I used to go out with a ticket book and a crash pad. No baton. No pepper spray. No taser. I actually didn't feel less safe. Chases were an every day event, far less now.

Used to chase Anton Dixon on his Gixxer. Also a bloke who had a 928s Porsche, but he died on the south motorway, doing warp speed 7 (not being chased). Funny, he got caught once by the helicopter, after the chase cars had pulled out when he got to 240 kmh. Or maybe it wasn't that fast, and my memory has inflated the facts.

It was a bit wild west, by todays standards. Dear Lord, I'd go back in a trice.

[Zedder]

Nostalgia.

The MoT used to have a thing called Digitector. Two cables set 25 metres apart on the highway. A vehicle crossed the first one, starting a clock. when it crossed the second one, it stopped the clock. The machine then worked out the speed.

The Auckland City Traffic Dept (pre merger with the MoT) used to have a thing called Truvelo. It was the same principle, but the calibrated distance was only 1.025 metres. The device calculated at 1.0 metres. The 0.025 was added to give an error allowance for the motorist.

I remember operating it on Balmoral Road. Goldfish in a bowl, even when our tolerance then (1988/1989) was 19 kmh. You had to be doing 20 over any limit to be stopped.

Yes, good old days. Only radars we had were stationary mode only. I rode an R80RT.

Feck, we've come a long way. I used to go out with a ticket book and a crash pad. No baton. No pepper spray. No taser. I actually didn't feel less safe. Chases were an every day event, far less now.

Used to chase Anton Dixon on his Gixxer. Also a bloke who had a 928s Porsche, but he died on the south motorway, doing warp speed 7 (not being chased). Funny, he got caught once by the helicopter, after the chase cars had pulled out when he got to 240 kmh. Or maybe it wasn't that fast, and my memory has inflated the facts.

It was a bit wild west, by todays standards. Dear Lord, I'd go back in a trice.

A guy I know came across that ex traffic cop I posted about earlier. He had a "worse work stories" nostalgia session with him which included patrolling SH16 alone at night etc.

There was another cop who was not well liked by his colleagues (there was a story about him busting his wife for speeding iirc) and who used to get into "situations" at the drop of a hat. Apparently, his "Officer needs assistance" calls weren't responded to as fast as they could have been...

[swbarnett]

The Auckland City Traffic Dept (pre merger with the MoT) used to have a thing called Truvelo. It was the same principle, but the calibrated distance was only 1.025 metres.
I remember them. To this day I'm weary of traffic counters because of it.

I knew guys that would skid their rear wheel and snap the cables.

[rastuscat]

Memory just cleared a bit. The truvelo gap was 1.525 metres. The .025 was an allowance, the correct gap was 1.500 metres.

Anyone ever get tagged by a County Mountie? Last 5 citys to have mobile traffic cops before the merger with the MoT were Auckland City, Tamaki City, Mount Albert, Napier and Invercargill.

[rastuscat]

I remember them. To this day I'm weary of traffic counters because of it.

I knew guys that would skid their rear wheel and snap the cables.

All the time I operated them I wondered why that didn't happen, but it never did.

[Scuba_Steve]

Mr R.Cat (or anyone else with respective knowledge) would you happen to know how many lives the speed scam is "predicted to save" each year?

[chasio]

Even Stuff is calling them out (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9515660/Speed-limit-tolerance-cut-not-yet-a-lifesaver) for blatantly excluding data that doesn't support the propaganda.

[Jantar]

Nostalgia.

The MoT used to have a thing called Digitector. Two cables set 25 metres apart on the highway. A vehicle crossed the first one, starting a clock. when it crossed the second one, it stopped the clock. The machine then worked out the speed.
....

I also remember those. 25 m was just the right distance to wind on the throttle and pull back on the bars a bit to just lift the front wheel clear of the ground. Tripping the first cable with the front wheel and the second cable with the rear wheel dropped the apparent speed by around 6%. Not a lot, but could mean the difference between getting a ticket or not getting one.

[Tazz]

Even Stuff is calling them out (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9515660/Speed-limit-tolerance-cut-not-yet-a-lifesaver) for blatantly excluding data that doesn't support the propaganda.

Hardly surprising.
I posted something a few pages back quoting a road safety campaign manager who claimed 80% of fatalities occurred at speeds below the legal limit. It is just logical to focus on that 20% really isn't it...<_<
I'm not saying that as something being in line with 'shouldn't you be out catching rapists' and the like, but if you're going to throw a bunch of money at campaigns like this you'd think the 80% where deaths are occurring would be the obvious place were you would start and possibly achieve results a lot easier?

Maybe their campaign team were originally from the old highway patrol :p



Feck, we've come a long way. I used to go out with a ticket book and a crash pad. No baton. No pepper spray. No taser. I actually didn't feel less safe. Chases were an every day event, far less now.


You guys just got too good at catching people to make it worth the effort with all the tech these days I'd guess. Spoil sports :P

[buggerit]

Hardly surprising.
I posted something a few pages back quoting their own road safety campaign manager who claimed 80% of fatalities occurred at speeds below the legal limit. It is just logical to focus on that 20% really isn't it...<_<
I'm not saying that as something being in line with 'shouldn't you be out catching rapists' and the like, but if you're going to throw a bunch of money at campaigns like this you'd think the 80% where deaths are occurring would be the obvious place were you would start and possibly achieve results a lot easier?

Maybe their campaign team were originally from the old highway patrol :p



You guys just got too good at catching people to make it worth the effort with all the tech these days I'd guess. Spoil sports :P
So it seems obvious, if we can keep our speeds above 100 we can reduce the road toll 80%,win win:devil2:

[george formby]

I guess the policies are more about reducing the injuries from accidents rather than reducing the number of accidents. No doubt lower overall speeds will drop the number of accidents somewhat but a lesser impact speed will create significantly more dents than injuries which is what the stats seem to argue. We never hear about the accidents where nobody is hurt. Having to drive slower will not improve the standard of driving.

The countries with the lowest road tolls regardless of geography, road condition or population have the most stringent & expensive licensing systems.

It will be interesting to see how the new licensing system will affect our road toll, gonna take awhile but better educated drivers/riders are safer.

[Zedder]

Hardly surprising.
I posted something a few pages back quoting their own road safety campaign manager who claimed 80% of fatalities occurred at speeds below the legal limit. It is just logical to focus on that 20% really isn't it...<_<
I'm not saying that as something being in line with 'shouldn't you be out catching rapists' and the like, but if you're going to throw a bunch of money at campaigns like this you'd think the 80% where deaths are occurring would be the obvious place were you would start and possibly achieve results a lot easier?

Maybe their campaign team were originally from the old highway patrol :p


The guy you quoted isn't "their" own road safety campaign manager. He was speaking out about the lower tolerance etc as he often does.

[Tazz]

So it seems obvious, if we can keep our speeds above 100 we can reduce the road toll 80%,win win:devil2:

I'm down with that. You could carefully tie it in with the 'but officer I'm only averaging 100km/h' line. Speeding saves! :lol:


The countries with the lowest road tolls regardless of geography, road condition or population have the most stringent & expensive licensing systems.

Don't think expense is a good deterrent, but stricter or at least more compulsory lessons etc are something I'd be more than happy to do for a reasonable limit, tolerance, and of course to save lives (so long as Darwin still gets his cut :lol:)


The guy you quoted isn't "their" own road safety campaign manager. He was speaking out about the lower tolerance etc as he often does.

Well spotted. My bad. I assumed completely wrong from the way the article was written :o
Regardless whoever their campaign manager is, they suck XD

[Zedder]

Well spotted. My bad. I assumed completely wrong from the way the article was written :o
Regardless whoever their campaign manager is, they suck XD

The lack of the prefix NZ Transport Agency or NZ Police, to the third paragraph starting with "Road safety campaigner..." probably misguided you.

[Tazz]

The lack of the prefix NZ Transport Agency or NZ Police, to the third paragraph starting with "Road safety campaigner..." probably misguided you.

I'm often misguided. Keeps life interesting, and you entertained =)

[Zedder]

I'm often misguided. Keeps life interesting, and you entertained =)

You entertain me? Don't flatter yourself.

[scumdog]

Nostalgia.

The MoT used to have a thing called Digitector. Two cables set 25 metres apart on the highway. A vehicle crossed the first one, starting a clock. when it crossed the second one, it stopped the clock. The machine then worked out the speed.

.

Yup, one got me back in '87 dang it!

[scumdog]

Mr R.Cat (or anyone else with respective knowledge) would you happen to know how many lives the speed scam is "predicted to save" each year?

8,000 give or take..

(A sensible answer to a sensible question I always say.....:msn-wink:)

[Madness]

I wondered what this XD thing is all about...


2. An internet expression that gets annoying if overused.

Yep, that's the one.

[Dave-]

Mr R.Cat (or anyone else with respective knowledge) would you happen to know how many lives the speed scam is "predicted to save" each year?

All of them.

[rastuscat]

All of them.
There are so many factors in a reduced road toll that its not possible to assign any factor as the major contributor.

Multiple factors make it difficult to assign the cause to.

Still, I've had 7 Heinekens, so my comnents are purely bizarre.

[Scuba_Steve]

Still, I've had 7 Heinekens, so my comnents are purely bizarre.

You should try something with alcohol in it, I recommend vodka personally :drinkup: