Speed tolerance reduced for December and January

[caspernz]

Meh, just find a quiet road and watch out for the sheep...291053

[george formby]

There are so many factors in a reduced road toll that its not possible to assign any factor as the major contributor.

Multiple factors make it difficult to assign the cause to.

Still, I've had 7 Heinekens, so my comnents are purely bizarre.

That is so refreshing to read. Yup, I concur.

By the same token, funding & formulating policies to improve road safety across the board is an enormous & expensive long term endeavor. I find it hard to be to critical of actions like the current 4 kmh tolerance. It causes no serious problems other than speedo fixation & will have an positive effect somewhere, some time for some body.
I would like to see a road safety campaign which stimulates drivers to think about road position, speed, anticipation, conditions etc rather than dictate legal limits.

Meh, it's all moot. What the f%&k do you do with humanity? Somebody will always screw it up.

[Ocean1]

What the f%&k do you do with humanity?

You get outa the fucking way and let 'em live their own decisions.

[rastuscat]

That is so refreshing to read.......
Meh, it's all moot. What the f%&k do you do with humanity? Somebody will always screw it up.

Basic human errors are the msin cause ofcroad crashes.

No policy or campaign will change that.

[george formby]

Basic human errors are the msin cause ofcroad crashes.

No policy or campaign will change that.

That's shum good heinikin!

Yup, but I think a lot of folk are ignorant & up to a point, ignorance is curable. 7 Estrella Damm the noo. Not a keyboard frienmdly beer.

[rastuscat]

That's shum good heinikin!

Yup, but I think a lot of folk are ignorant & up to a point, ignorance is curable. 7 Estrella Damm the noo. Not a keyboard frienmdly beer.

Hamsterkins and Androids are not interweb friends :)

[Zedder]

Basic human errors are the msin cause ofcroad crashes.

No policy or campaign will change that.

If by "Basic human errors msin cause ofcroad crashes" you mean: Basic human errors are the main cause of road crashes, these guys don't agree: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/roadaccidents.html

[swbarnett]

No doubt lower overall speeds will drop the number of accidents somewhat
That's one possibility. However I think the following is more likely:

Lower overall speed = more distracted drivers = more accidents.

[bluninja]

Well just had a camera van ping my for 5 over, so $30 in the coffers, but no points...and no crashes

[ital916]

Well just had a camera van ping my for 5 over, so $30 in the coffers, but no points...and no crashes

It's recklessly speeding motorcyclists like you that give all of us a bad name. I bet you're a bloody menace on the road.;)

[bluninja]

It's recklessly speeding motorcyclists like you that give all of us a bad name. I bet you're a bloody menace on the road.;)

Especially in a car. I'm the pilot of 1.5 tonnes of metal mayhem :laugh: Still waiting for the first bike ticket in NZ, must be riding too slow, or much too fast. They'll get me one day :rolleyes:

[angle]

Especially in a car. I'm the pilot of 1.5 tonnes of metal mayhem :laugh: Still waiting for the first bike ticket in NZ, must be riding too slow, or much too fast. They'll get me one day :rolleyes:
I can share mine. I'm not greedy.

[scumdog]

You get outa the fucking way and let 'em live their own decisions.
As long as their bad decisions don't affect others....

[Tazz]

As long as their bad decisions don't affect others....

You're going to have to lock us all indoors to stop that from happening, and even then someone has to design the door and building, and build it, and there is decision making involved in all that, plus cost cutting, laziness on the building, and manufacturing of the materials front etc etc.

Basically, we can't escape stupidity whether it is our own or others being forced upon us :weep: and there are only so many rules people won't notice, or put up with, being put in place before something gives.

[rastuscat]

If by "Basic human errors msin cause ofcroad crashes" you mean: Basic human errors are the main cause of road crashes, these guys don't agree: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/roadaccidents.html

Read it today.

It appears to say that there's not much we can do to prevent many crashes, due to human factors beyond our ability to change.

So how about we change our thinking around, and view it from the other direction. We accept that some crashes will happen due to human factors. C'est la vie.

Now, is it better to have those inevitable crashes at higher speed or lower speed?

[Tazz]

Now, is it better to have those inevitable crashes at higher speed or lower speed?

Is this a trick question? :laugh:

My stab at it.....a death is a death, regardless of speed, and while statistically more deaths may occur from crashes at higher speeds on a case by case basis (so it is an easier thing to put a marketing/statistical spin on), if less are happening at those speeds, I'd probably rather the thinking (or causes) around the higher amount of deaths (which are due crashes at lower speeds) be targeted....because more people are dying from them? Call me crazy :wings:

It's kinda like saying, would you rather someone is shot dead, or killed by choking on a carrot and ignoring the fact that out of 5 people killed by the two causes, only 1 was shot...but someone being shot is a more dramatic death so you roll out the counter measures on that to make more of a 'dramatic impact' on the hearts and minds.

I think that makes sense... but just in case this post was brought to you by Auchentoshan and the letter 12.

[R650R]

Now, is it better to have those inevitable crashes at higher speed or lower speed?

Now why can't your superiors stick to a simple message like that which we have to agree is right.
From my heavy truck driving I have a strong lane discipline of not cutting corners and often use the line on mates 'hey what if the guy coming the other way is driving in the same manner as you?"
I do think we get a bit of risk compensation from those people that obey the law and then don't pay attention. I'm sure we've all followed that 'careful driver' who only does about 96 max in the hundred zone but is nattering away to passengers, pointing out scenery etc, then when they hit the 70 zone at next town they still doing 96!!! Then about halfway through they realise, panic and slam on brakes down to about 50...

[Jantar]

....
Now, is it better to have those inevitable crashes at higher speed or lower speed?

Wrong question. You should be asking "Is it better to have MORE crashes due to not watching the road, or fewer crashes because people are encouraged to pay attention to what they are doing?"

Next, think of the incident triangle. For every fatal incident there are ten critical ones. For every critical incident there are ten serious ones. For every serious incident there are ten minor ones and for every minor incident there are ten potential ones. If we can reduce the potential incidents then we automatically reduce the minor, serious, critical and fatal ones as well. (From aviation human factors, but applies to the road equally).

[Zedder]

Read it today.

It appears to say that there's not much we can do to prevent many crashes, due to human factors beyond our ability to change.

So how about we change our thinking around, and view it from the other direction. We accept that some crashes will happen due to human factors. C'est la vie.

Now, is it better to have those inevitable crashes at higher speed or lower speed?

Read it again. Particularly the part in paragraph 2: "In reality, it is often the situation that is primarily reponsible not the drivers response to it". Also the pedestrian in the example shares the blame. The article is a bit of an add on to the distraction/inattention issue mentioned earlier.

It's not as cut and dried as high speed versus lower speed, there are many factors involved. My post number 80 made mention of two different scenarios related to it.

[R650R]

Next, think of the incident triangle. For every fatal incident there are ten critical ones. For every critical incident there are ten serious ones. For every serious incident there are ten minor ones and for every minor incident there are ten potential ones. If we can reduce the potential incidents then we automatically reduce the minor, serious, critical and fatal ones as well. (From aviation human factors, but applies to the road equally).

That's a pretty cool way to look at it. I wonder how people would drive if we were all in radio contact with giant call signs on side of doors and had to ask permission to enter 'land' at the next town or garage.

[rastuscat]

Shit is going to happen.

I suspect that those reading this will not expect shit to happen to them, but it does happen, and to people who didn't expect it to happen.

When shit happens, it's better to be going slower. Like, 50 instead of 58, 100 instead of 112, that sort of thing. I'm not talking about those doing 160, just the average guy/girl doing what they have always done. When shit happens to Mr and Mrs Average, it's better if they are going slower.

That's all I'm saying. Sure, it'd be better if there was something we could do to stop shit happening, and we actually do stuff to try to prevent it. But shit still happens, and it's better for it to happen at lower speeds.

When shit stops happening, I totally agree that we should be allowed to go faster.

At the risk of repeating myself, it never ceases to amaze me how many people tell me that the standard of roads and driving in Noo Zilland is dreadful, but that the speed limit is too low.

All this is tempered by the fact that my section isn't big on speeding tickets. We do lots of other stuff, but speed isn't a huge focus for us. I think I'm out of step with the management on that one, but I think we have other things to do too, not just speed.

[Edbear]

Now why can't your superiors stick to a simple message like that which we have to agree is right.
From my heavy truck driving I have a strong lane discipline of not cutting corners and often use the line on mates 'hey what if the guy coming the other way is driving in the same manner as you?"
I do think we get a bit of risk compensation from those people that obey the law and then don't pay attention. I'm sure we've all followed that 'careful driver' who only does about 96 max in the hundred zone but is nattering away to passengers, pointing out scenery etc, then when they hit the 70 zone at next town they still doing 96!!! Then about halfway through they realise, panic and slam on brakes down to about 50...

Doncha jes hate that! :angry:


Wrong question. You should be asking "Is it better to have MORE crashes due to not watching the road, or fewer crashes because people are encouraged to pay attention to what they are doing?"

Next, think of the incident triangle. For every fatal incident there are ten critical ones. For every critical incident there are ten serious ones. For every serious incident there are ten minor ones and for every minor incident there are ten potential ones. If we can reduce the potential incidents then we automatically reduce the minor, serious, critical and fatal ones as well. (From aviation human factors, but applies to the road equally).

Surely you're not suggesting education and publicity about driving!!?? :innocent:


Shit is going to happen.

I suspect that those reading this will not expect shit to happen to them, but it does happen, and to people who didn't expect it to happen.

When shit happens, it's better to be going slower. Like, 50 instead of 58, 100 instead of 112, that sort of thing. I'm not talking about those doing 160, just the average guy/girl doing what they have always done. When shit happens to Mr and Mrs Average, it's better if they are going slower.

That's all I'm saying. Sure, it'd be better if there was something we could do to stop shit happening, and we actually do stuff to try to prevent it. But shit still happens, and it's better for it to happen at lower speeds.

When shit stops happening, I totally agree that we should be allowed to go faster.

At the risk of repeating myself, it never ceases to amaze me how many people tell me that the standard of roads and driving in Noo Zilland is dreadful, but that the speed limit is too low.

All this is tempered by the fact that my section isn't big on speeding tickets. We do lots of other stuff, but speed isn't a huge focus for us. I think I'm out of step with the management on that one, but I think we have other things to do too, not just speed.

Too many don't understand this! Fact is, accidents happen and can happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime, any speed, any conditions. I broke my back at 45km/h in town traffic driving to work in a very strong van, noted for its ability to see people walk away in a serious head-on.

Why, don't TPTB make a Defensaive Driving course compulsory for getting your licence in the first place and for anyone convicted of a driving offense of some seriousness? Not for 5km/h over the limit, but for high speeds and accidents, drunk driving, etc.

[Zedder]

Shit is going to happen.

I suspect that those reading this will not expect shit to happen to them, but it does happen, and to people who didn't expect it to happen.

When shit happens, it's better to be going slower. Like, 50 instead of 58, 100 instead of 112, that sort of thing. I'm not talking about those doing 160, just the average guy/girl doing what they have always done. When shit happens to Mr and Mrs Average, it's better if they are going slower.

That's all I'm saying. Sure, it'd be better if there was something we could do to stop shit happening, and we actually do stuff to try to prevent it. But shit still happens, and it's better for it to happen at lower speeds.

When shit stops happening, I totally agree that we should be allowed to go faster.

At the risk of repeating myself, it never ceases to amaze me how many people tell me that the standard of roads and driving in Noo Zilland is dreadful, but that the speed limit is too low.

All this is tempered by the fact that my section isn't big on speeding tickets. We do lots of other stuff, but speed isn't a huge focus for us. I think I'm out of step with the management on that one, but I think we have other things to do too, not just speed.

Of course "Shit is going to happen", otherwise you wouldn't have a job and insurance companies etc would be out of work.

There is no doubt you believe strongly in what you're doing, your dedication clearly shows through.

However, all I and others are writing about, is the "magic bullet" reduction in speed approach which according to experts is wrong and also just penalises the Mums and Dads.

Putting aside the Transportation Human Factors etc, I was recently reading a report which found (not surprisingly) black cars are involved in 47% of crashes. That's a shit load of accidents!

[swbarnett]

Shit is going to happen.

I suspect that those reading this will not expect shit to happen to them, but it does happen, and to people who didn't expect it to happen.

When shit happens, it's better to be going slower. Like, 50 instead of 58, 100 instead of 112, that sort of thing. I'm not talking about those doing 160, just the average guy/girl doing what they have always done. When shit happens to Mr and Mrs Average, it's better if they are going slower.

That's all I'm saying. Sure, it'd be better if there was something we could do to stop shit happening, and we actually do stuff to try to prevent it. But shit still happens, and it's better for it to happen at lower speeds.
All this sounds very logical until you consider what is repeatedly found when speed limits are raised or removed - less shit happens.

[rastuscat]

All this sounds very logical until you consider what is repeatedly found when speed limits are raised or removed - less shit happens.

Cool point actually.

I can think of the Northern Territory experiment that's going on. Interesting arguments either way, I see that it's ongoing. Thing is, how many roads do we have that are hundreds of kilometres long with nil junctions, bugger all curves, etc ? I mean, the NT roads are, ahem, a little different to ours.

Then there's the autobahn. So may people tell us how safe the autobahn is with no speed limit. Um, just how many roads do we have with such quality surfaces, quality barriers, quality on and off ramps.

Surely you'd be lucky to find any road in NZ with that sort of quality.

Am I wrong?

[bluninja]

Cool point actually.

I can think of the Northern Territory experiment that's going on. Interesting arguments either way, I see that it's ongoing. Thing is, how many roads do we have that are hundreds of kilometres long with nil junctions, bugger all curves, etc ? I mean, the NT roads are, ahem, a little different to ours.

Then there's the autobahn. So may people tell us how safe the autobahn is with no speed limit. Um, just how many roads do we have with such quality surfaces, quality barriers, quality on and off ramps.

Surely you'd be lucky to find any road in NZ with that sort of quality.

Am I wrong?

Cool observation....In short if we stop dicking around with speed restrictions and engineer the roads and junctions to reduce opportunities for head ons and SMIDSYs then the road toll would drop, regardless of marginal driving skills.

For all the money being spent on this program they could probably replace blackspot crossroads with big roundabouts. I'm certain it would have a more lasting road safety effect...sort of like traffic calming bumps, but without the bumps.

[swbarnett]

Cool point actually.

I can think of the Northern Territory experiment that's going on. Interesting arguments either way, I see that it's ongoing. Thing is, how many roads do we have that are hundreds of kilometres long with nil junctions, bugger all curves, etc ? I mean, the NT roads are, ahem, a little different to ours.

Then there's the autobahn. So may people tell us how safe the autobahn is with no speed limit. Um, just how many roads do we have with such quality surfaces, quality barriers, quality on and off ramps.

Surely you'd be lucky to find any road in NZ with that sort of quality.

Am I wrong?
I can think of one of the top of my head. Puhoi to Hampton Downs. By the end of 2019 it'll stretch all the way to Hamilton.

From memory there have been other places where the roads are closer to the standard NZ rural road where an increase in the limit was followed by an immediate and sustained reduction in crashes.

[bogan]

Cool point actually.

I can think of the Northern Territory experiment that's going on. Interesting arguments either way, I see that it's ongoing. Thing is, how many roads do we have that are hundreds of kilometres long with nil junctions, bugger all curves, etc ? I mean, the NT roads are, ahem, a little different to ours.

Then there's the autobahn. So may people tell us how safe the autobahn is with no speed limit. Um, just how many roads do we have with such quality surfaces, quality barriers, quality on and off ramps.

Surely you'd be lucky to find any road in NZ with that sort of quality.

Am I wrong?

No speed limit doesn't mean you'll see limitless speeds, isn't the whole idea of it to get drivers to have to think about driving to the conditions instead of a target? In such a case road quality still limits the speed, just not through a blnket speed limit. 100kmhr is a very appropriate for many of our roads, so is 80, so is 120; that's why +4kmhr tolerance is not appropriate.

[scumdog]

it never ceases to amaze me how many people tell me that the standard of roads and driving in Noo Zilland is dreadful, but that the speed limit is too low.



Ain't THAT the truth!:yes:

[G4L4XY]

So whose willing to admit they've been done thus far? :bleh:

[Zedder]

No speed limit doesn't mean you'll see limitless speeds, isn't the whole idea of it to get drivers to have to think about driving to the conditions instead of a target? In such a case road quality still limits the speed, just not through a blnket speed limit. 100kmhr is a very appropriate for many of our roads, so is 80, so is 120; that's why +4kmhr tolerance is not appropriate.

It's an interesting phenomennom. Having driven/ridden in the NT of Oz prior to the change to a speed limit I used to cruise at 120kmph (just seemed to work for comfort and economy) and yet was overtaken at what appeared to be much higher speeds. I never saw any evidence of crashes etc though.

However, in Abu Dhabi before the reduction to 140kmph, I often experienced scary situations. Mind you, over there they have that fatalistic Muslim attitude.

[Zedder]

Ain't THAT the truth!:yes:

A predictable response given your job sd. You're hardly likely to contradict him.

[rastuscat]

A predictable response given your job sd. You're hardly likely to contradict him.

Hey Scummie, get this........:kick:

[rastuscat]

It's an interesting phenomennom. Having driven/ridden in the NT of Oz prior to the change to a speed limit I used to cruise at 120kmph (just seemed to work for comfort and economy) and yet was overtaken at what appeared to be much higher speeds. I never saw any evidence of crashes etc though.

However, in Abu Dhabi before the reduction to 140kmph, I often experienced scary situations. Mind you, over there they have that fatalistic Muslim attitude.

Yes, in the Muslim world they have a different (and quite respectable) attitude to death, so it's not surprising they have a different attitude to driving.

[_Shrek_]

So whose willing to admit they've been done thus far? :bleh:

:facepalm: speed cam towing trailer.... was in a line of traffic doing 102ks & mrs S got a wee thing in the post

[rastuscat]

I can think of one of the top of my head. Puhoi to Hampton Downs. By the end of 2019 it'll stretch all the way to Hamilton.

From memory there have been other places where the roads are closer to the standard NZ rural road where an increase in the limit was followed by an immediate and sustained reduction in crashes.

Canterbury Plains might be a candidate too, were it not for the crash rate down there.

[Zedder]

Hey Scummie, get this........:kick:

Spoilsport.

Why should he have the monopoly on "winding up" just cos it's in his sig?

[Zedder]

Yes, in the Muslim world they have a different (and quite respectable) attitude to death, so it's not surprising they have a different attitude to driving.

Faark rtc, they have no respect for danger and "Insha'Allah" is like open slather to be bloody reckless.

[bogan]

Canterbury Plains might be a candidate too, were it not for the crash rate down there.

Isn't the point to reduce such a crash rate by increasing the speed though? I mean what's the bigger cause of crashes there, driver inattention? or loss of control due to excessive speed?

[scumdog]

Hey Scummie, get this........:kick:

Hey, c'mon, I'm AGREEING with you!

(What would I get if I didn't???:pinch:)

[Reckless]

Shouldnt be posting this and normally keep out of this type of thread on KB?
Prob setting myself up for a few negative comments and I haven't read the thread so apologies if its been said? but:

Went for a Fat bikers ride to Viands bakery about a year ago, there where two cops patrolling where the open road drops down to a 70k zone. Two of them back and forward, same short stretch of road, no one got pulled up that we saw, but I wondered if the 2 car resource was wasted going back and forward hunting that one little 2k stretch of road.

After the last trip Auckland to Wellington (4K tolerance) I let the GF drive most of the way?
We witnessed a cop slowing before brows and ducking to the left shoulder in the gravel to deliberately catch the unsuspecting.
Followed a Car/trailer for about 20K at 95ish not holding the traffic up, secure load etc. We were trundling along about 1/2k behind.
Cop comes around the corner Blues come on, spins around between us (safely) and pulls the guy up. 6 or 7 k over at most. We saw 22 cops on that trip.
My mate that came up for the tri series couple weeks ago said there were heaps on his trip from Welly and they where very active.

Cops Hiding behind the scrub on the motorway exit ramps ready to catch you from behind and one last Sat on the over bridge behind the concrete barrier with his laser gun, when we left Hampton Downs.

From the behavior patterns of the cops I decided it wasn't about road safety it was hunter and hunted, us vs them.

I've sold the SV and bought a Bonnie. It feels the same at 100k than the SV did at 120 (or more) and at least it wont bottom out on the curves like a cruiser.
Something had to change and I knew they wouldn't, it would have to be me. From the publicity Looks like this holiday season will be worse.

Now for the first time I'm considering riding with an Ipod rather than listening to the bike and feeling the road? I used to dislike them for the distraction they must cause? Personal thing but I like to use every sense when I ride? It was part of the fun of riding (especially listening to the big ole twin).
Now I load up the sounds in the ute for the MX and road trips to prevent to boredom. I set the navman so I don't even have to think about where to turn.
I'm defiantly going to get a car with cruise control next, so I don't have to concentrate on not drifting over the 100k. And I'm sick of looking at the speedo all the time.
I guess then I'll concentrate a little less??

I've simply decided its better to fall asleep with all the others in the Que than risk trying to pass someone on the targeted passing lanes.
I'll allow extra time to follow the driver on front of the que that goes 50k around the corners, and 98k when the road straightens out and 100k when it widens into passing lanes. I've noticed everyone follows to close these days, 3 second rule is dead, every one is bunched up behind the slowest common denominator, but few have the skills or confidence to pass.
I'll leave earlier on the Bonnie for Cemetery Circuit on Xmas afternoon, cutting family time :(
I'll stop now and have that hot chocolate and muffin sitting in my tummy as I finish the last 1/3 of the trip.
Leaving and getting anywhere with purpose is no longer part of the equation.
Miles and miles of double yellow lines, Miles of 90K "safer speed zones" Badly looked after roads, hard glossy tar bleed in the wet, soft in the dry? Bad Roads for dummies?


Shocking I know! And I know the above reads badly, its not a bitch at the cops here because they don't make the policy.
They are instructed to vigorously enforce the 104 tolerance and from personal experience they are doing so.
I heard an ad today saying anything over 100k and your up for it, the inference being the 4k is only a tolerance?
Jeepers, the speedo in my late model ute is 8k out according to the navman. Which is correct? I guess a ticket might solve that one? I don't have a clue how accurate the Bonnie speedo is???

I wonder how many other drivers out there trundling along out there in the que are the same board mind set?? :brick:
Is this a good direction for us all to be heading?? :(

[Gremlin]

Cops Hiding behind the scrub on the motorway exit ramps ready to catch you from behind and one last Sat on the over bridge behind the concrete barrier with his laser gun, when we left Hampton Downs.
That was a quiet day. Left Hampton Downs the one day, and it was 1 on the on-ramp north (they sit on the on-ramp so you can't see them from the motorway), 2 on the overbridge, and one coming up the southbound off ramp. Don't speed on the moronway :blink:

Current ute has cruise control. Awesome, but now I wish it was adaptive, as people can't travel at a constant speed.

[rastuscat]

Y'all

I've broken the mould and taken a death ray out. I'm on Shands Rd, Selwyn District. I dont do much speed but our intetsectipn crashes out here mean its a good idea to calm the big flowd. So here I am.

For those unfamiliar, a death ray is a Prolaser 2 speed gun.

100 kmh limit here, busy traffic. Mostly in the 80 tp 90 range due to volume.

Its a road whete it graduates from 50 to 70 to 80 to 100 as you get further ftom Christchurch. Im in plain view so as many people as possible see me stading out like dogs bollix with the death ray.

One stop so far. A woman doing 65 holding a while pile of people up. When stopped she said she thought it was 70 here. No ticket, but a breath test, coz thats what we do.

Might post updates if anything happens.

[Swoop]

The debate on an open road speed limit has been going on in Oz's Northern Territory for over 5 years.

However, I applaude them because they at least are trialling a period of no speed limit. All the rhetoric and theory etc will finally be reduced to an empirical experience.
This will, indeed, be an interesting exercise and I look forward to hearing the results.

Imagine not having to look at your speedo, or keep one eye out for the rozzers. Only having to concentrate on the road and other potential dangers around you (kangaroos, road trains, etc). I doubt they even have to pay much attention for tar-snakes or pot holes since they actually know how to build decent roads over there...

[rastuscat]

Ticket 1. Truck driver at 78kmh not wearing seatbelt.

Sympathy train doesnt stop here with seatbelts.

[Tigadee]

Yes, in the Muslim world they have a different (and quite respectable) attitude to death, so it's not surprising they have a different attitude to driving.

They sure do! :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd_DTTkq-eo

[rastuscat]

Stop 2. Truck at 60 holding folk up. Thought limit was 70. Nil ticket but breath test, coz we breath test everyone.

Traffic lighter now.

[EJK]

Better work stories.

Thanks for the updates. Keep me entertained.

[swarfie]

Stop 2. Truck at 60 holding folk up. Thought limit was 70. Nil ticket but breath test, coz we breath test everyone.

Traffic lighter now.

Glad to hear you are pulling up those going somewhat slower than the posted limit...it's bloody frustrating that. How about a couple of you heading to the next passing lane and pulling those up that having held up the traffic on the single file then speed up when they get to the dual lane and giving them a warning for it cause that's bloody frustrating too.

[SMOKEU]

Y'all

I've broken the mould and taken a death ray out. I'm on Shands Rd, Selwyn District. I dont do much speed but our intetsectipn crashes out here mean its a good idea to calm the big flowd. So here I am.



It's just a shame you weren't there during the roadworks when the speed limit was reduced down to 30kmh in the 100kmh zone. Since most drivers were aggressively tailgating anyone going less than 60kmh, you could have got your entire weekly quota in a matter of minutes.

[G4L4XY]

That was a quiet day. Left Hampton Downs the one day, and it was 1 on the on-ramp north (they sit on the on-ramp so you can't see them from the motorway), 2 on the overbridge, and one coming up the southbound off ramp. Don't speed on the moronway :blink:

Current ute has cruise control. Awesome, but now I wish it was adaptive, as people can't travel at a constant speed.

I remember heading down from Auckland on the Hyo. Was night-time, I'm usually always conscious of police peoples on the highway down to Hamilton...looking out for them in their sneaky hiding spaces. T'was too late once I'd seen them scurrying around on the overpass near Hampton Downs, I looked up at them in their (not very stealthy) high-viz, then looked down at my speedo, 120ish or more. They didn't chase me. I figured this whole time I thought o0o I'm a bad boy speeding everywhere when all along my speedo was probably that far out :(

[Juniper]

Y'all

I've broken the mould and taken a death ray out. I'm on Shands Rd, Selwyn District. I dont do much speed but our intetsectipn crashes out here mean its a good idea to calm the big flowd. So here I am.

For those unfamiliar, a death ray is a Prolaser 2 speed gun.

100 kmh limit here, busy traffic. Mostly in the 80 tp 90 range due to volume.

Its a road whete it graduates from 50 to 70 to 80 to 100 as you get further ftom Christchurch. Im in plain view so as many people as possible see me stading out like dogs bollix with the death ray.

One stop so far. A woman doing 65 holding a while pile of people up. When stopped she said she thought it was 70 here. No ticket, but a breath test, coz thats what we do.

Might post updates if anything happens.

Haha lol. Dude your awesome!! That is actually really interesting stuff!!

[Zedder]

Better work stories.

Thanks for the updates. Keep me entertained.

Video and or pics would be appreciated as well.

I'm off for a motorbike ride so you've got a few hours to get organised rtc.

[rastuscat]

Relocated 100 metres to where I can watch the stop sign I'm monitoring speed at.

Beautiful day, hundreds of passersby but only 2 motorcycles have gone past. Just sayin.

[rastuscat]

Ticket 2. Stop sign. Desperate housewife at 25kmh through stop sign.

Breath test.

[EJK]

Ticket 2. Stop sign. Desperate housewife at 25kmh through stop sign.

Breath test.

What was her excuse? Rushing to husbands workplace to check if he's not banging a co-worker?

[rastuscat]

Ticket 3 stop sign. About 10 to 15 kmh.

Breath test. Gonna stop noting this coz it's a gimme.

Motorbike popo just turned up. You may recall that we cremated our other bike, I'm in a cage today.

[rastuscat]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the derision.

[bogan]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the dderision.

What, through the stop sign? in the 50/70k zone? clocker higher but knocked it down? trailer?

[swarfie]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the dderision.

Derision request accepted. You've got to be pulling the piss. Did he/she abuse you?...you deserve it:mad:
Hope you shave your little black mustache off tonight and come out with a milder attitude tomorrow..

[superjackal]

Got caught this morning, 113kph on the way from Welly to Petone. Cop had his blinders on, did his job and, sent me on my way.

I realise these guys probably don't care and are just doing their jobs, but as my only interaction with the Police for the last 5 years, they need to work on their interpersonal skills.

I felt like a number. Not a speeding, dangerous lunactic like I'm made out to be by their anti-speed PR campaign.

[buggerit]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the dderision.

Fail the attitude test did they?
Known arsehole?
Got to be seen to hand out a few low k ticket from the almighty above?
All of the above?

[rastuscat]

105 on a dry road with awesome viz.

In case anyone missed it, we're writing tickets for any speed over the limit by more than 4. There is no tolerance on the tolerance.

Guess thats the reason this thread started. We do what we do. People have every right to disagree but it wont change what we do.

Moving on now. Couple of hours where hundreds of cars and trucks went past. Only 4 bikes and 1 was the popo one.

2 hours of death ray sticking out like a sticky outy thing, so deterrent message delivered to hundreds. Just the one speeding ticket, $30, what a revenue collecting bastard I am.

Off to an alleged donut sale. .....

[bogan]

105 on a dry road with awesome viz.

Well, it take a small amount of time for eyes to refocus from gazing at the speedo when doing the road check every now and then, so the viz probably isn't going to be that awesome for the rest of his trip. Thanks for making the road safer :rolleyes:

[Mike.Gayner]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the derision.

Good to see you're working hard to keep us all safe :tugger:

[EJK]

So much butthurts on KiwiBiker today!

[rastuscat]

Fail the attitude test did they?
Known arsehole?
Got to be seen to hand out a few low k ticket from the almighty above?
All of the above?

Um........did we ever say that the policy doesnt apply to nice people?

It's been fairly well publicised. Nil ambush there.

I was sticking out like a beacon, likely to be why I got so few speeds. Like, one. By deduction I got somone who wasn't paying attention.

So if it makes you feel better., think of thr ticket as one for someone not paying attention.

[rastuscat]

What was her excuse? Rushing to husbands workplace to check if he's not banging a co-worker?

Nothing so saucy. Told me there was nothing coming so she just slowed down and went.

There actially was nothing coming, but its a stop sign, not a give way.

There's no speed tolerance through stop signs, especially ones in areas where nasty things have happened at stop signs.

I always think of that old retort when people tell me they slowed down........If I pulled you out of your car and started beating you with a baton, would you want me to stop or just slow down?

Tee hee.

[IkieBikie]

come on you must have seen someone on a cellphone at some time that you could have pinged - I drove 5 kms yesterday and spotted 5 people using cellphones in the cars - one had a ipad on the middle of her steering wheel while she was driving in heavy traffic

[G4L4XY]

Just the one speeding ticket, $30, what a revenue collecting bastard I am.

Off to an alleged donut sale. .....

Do you think you deserve a donut haha

[swbarnett]

Um........did we ever say that the policy doesnt apply to nice people?

It's been fairly well publicised. Nil ambush there.

I was sticking out like a beacon, likely to be why I got so few speeds. Like, one. By deduction I got somone who wasn't paying attention.

Or someone who was paying attention. To the road, not the speedo.

[swbarnett]

I always think of that old retort when people tell me they slowed down........If I pulled you out of your car and started beating you with a baton, would you want me to stop or just slow down?
If you slow down enough it would be as good as stopping. Being hit by anything that is moving slow enough does no harm.

[willytheekid]

....I'm in a cage today.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2071201024/h817753C4/

...Just dont make a habit of it :oi-grr:

[Zedder]

Just the one speeding ticket, $30, what a revenue collecting bastard I am.

Well maybe not you.

However, comparing better revenue from other fines (according to you and colleagues) red light runners versus "speeders".

In Auckland from 2008-2012, 1646 red light runner incidents resulting in deaths and injuries. So, 1646 @$150 fine each gives $246,900 based on all vehicle drivers being fined.

Out of about 600,000 vehicles in Auckland say 180,000 (165-200,000 cross the Auckland Harbour bridge everyday) and using 16.6% (1 in 6 drivers get tickets) gives 29,880 and $896,400 potential revenue for one day in Auckland alone. Hmmm...

[angle]

Ticket 1. Truck driver at 78kmh not wearing seatbelt.
Maybe he took it off when you stopped him?

We do what we do. People have every right to disagree but it wont change what we do.
You do realise that you've just said that you don't serve the public.

[Bald Eagle]

Nostalgia

The Auckland City Traffic Dept (pre merger with the MoT)

Yes, good old days. Only radars we had were stationary mode only. I rode an R80RT.

Feck, we've come a long way. I used to go out with a ticket book and crash pad. No baton. No pepper spray. No taser. I actually didn't feel less safe. Chases were an every day event, far less now.


It was a bit wild west, by todays standards. Dear Lord, I'd go back in a trice.

Ah the good old days, was CIB then uniform popo out of Auckland Central back then .

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[Clockwork]

True!

I want anybody who gets a ticket for 105kph to scam and post it on this thread...


Erm.... so does this count?



Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the derision.

[rastuscat]

Being hit by anything that is moving slow enough does no harm.

Without knowing it you've posted the perfect argument for speed enforcement.

Welcome to the fold, brother.

SMIRK.....

[bogan]

Erm.... so does this count?

Hehe, now this man, has earned a donut.

[rastuscat]

Maybe go back to horse and cart/bicycles only then. The trade off would be the cost of everything would go through the roof and many businesses would fail. Is doing that worth the lives that would be saved??

Your point is well made Citizen.

We need to allow for the movement of people and goods around the roading network in order to allow our society to function. Thing is, we need to have some rules to try to avoid the movement from becoming disproportionately dangerous.

So we enact laws to meet the balance between the need for mobility and the need for safety.

If we went back to horses and carts less people would die, but at the expense of the wellbeing of the economy and societal activities.

The balance ebbs and flows, and debate about it is healthy. What we have now is an evolution of the past, and it will continue to evolve.

And we live in the now, with what we have.

Donuts.

[rastuscat]

Maybe he took it off when you stopped him?.

Nope. Wearing a hi viz shirt so it was obvious from miles away. Still not on when he stopped, and he admitted not wearing it.

But maybe we're both wrong, the driver and I. Stuff on KB is always right, of course.

[bogan]

The balance ebbs and flows, and debate about it is healthy.

Well that is good to hear! and it's obviously working as not long ago you were saying just shut up and take it cos whining on kb will make feck all difference, won't change a thing, and is just so much a waste of time...

[rastuscat]

You do realise that you've just said that you don't serve the public.

Lets see. Public votes for gubbermint. Gubbermint passes law. Gubbermint expects Popos to enforce law, pays them to do it. Popo Bosses set policy. Policy gets enforced.

Oddly, almost all the people we discuss enforcement with have a view on what we should be doing. And its normally not enforcing the rule they broke.

The occasional person does agree with us, but as a rule people dont like getting tickets.

Is that really news?

[rastuscat]

Well that is good to hear! and it's obviously working as not long ago you were saying just shut up and take it cos whining on kb will make feck all difference, won't change a thing, and is just so much a waste of time...

Yeah, but even Akzle is entitled to voice his view.

[bogan]

Yeah, but even Akzle is entitled to voice his view.

Yeh, but we only let him do that cos the site has an ignore function.

[Gremlin]

Yeah, but even Akzle is entitled to voice his view.
That's the freaken problem with democracy...

[Zedder]

Without knowing it you've posted the perfect argument for speed enforcement.

Welcome to the fold, brother.

SMIRK.....

Lol! One point out of the whole range in the discussion.

There's been much posted on here against the issue but you just cherry pick the ones you want to reply to anyway.

It's like discussing Military Doctrine with a frontline soldier.

[scumdog]

Well that is good to hear! and it's obviously working as not long ago you were saying just shut up and take it cos whining on kb will make feck all difference, won't change a thing, and is just so much a waste of time...

Hey, you're onto it!:niceone:

So why do so many rant on KB about shit like this? and so often too...<_<

[bogan]

Hey, you're onto it!:niceone:

So why do so many rant on KB about shit like this? and so often too...<_<

What, would you rather they let us out to interact with people in real life? :gob:

Lesser of two evils mate :Police:

[Tazz]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the derision.

Was it you or another cop on here that said to post up a ticket for 105 (or maybe it was 104) as they didn't think it would be likely people would be getting them? :p

Surprised you're in that area though. That Leeston cop does a pretty good job of patrolling those parts.

[Zedder]

Hey, you're onto it!:niceone:

So why do so many rant on KB about shit like this? and so often too...<_<

Lol again! One says debate about it is healthy while the other calls it ranting.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ticket for 105. Yes. 105.

Okay, bring on the derision.

So what, you were getting worried that with all the red light safety patrols your division of the gang usually does you were potentially saving too many lives so you thought you'd go out & balance it today by killing a few?
Congratulations on making the roads a more dangerous place for everyone


Without knowing it you've posted the perfect argument for speed enforcement.

Welcome to the fold, brother.

SMIRK.....

What so you're ultimate goal is to have traffic at standstill? any speed above that you've killed your whole argument

[Stirts]

I was sticking out like a bacon, likely to be why I got so few speeds. Like, one. By deduction I got somone who wasn't paying attention.

So if it makes you feel better., think of thr ticket as one for someone not paying attention.

Fixed it for you :msn-wink:

sorry the temptation was just too great

[swbarnett]

Without knowing it you've posted the perfect argument for speed enforcement.

Welcome to the fold, brother.

SMIRK.....
That assumes that the speed limit is "slow enough". Far from it. Afterall, it has been said that 80% of all fatalities occurr under the speed limit.

To be slow enough we need to be travelling at a speed where the resultant impact to the body is lower than 8kph (the speed at which a bone will break). This would result in an open road speed limit of probably about 30kph. Lower if you consider head-on collisions.

in all practicality it is not possible for the vehicle fleet to always travel slow enough to avoid all injury.

[swbarnett]

Your point is well made Citizen.

We need to allow for the movement of people and goods around the roading network in order to allow our society to function. Thing is, we need to have some rules to try to avoid the movement from becoming disproportionately dangerous.
And there's the rub. Why does one small group assume that they have the right to decide for me how to achieve this?


And we live in the now, with what we have.
That's all very well if you happen to agree with the now that is imposed on you. If you don't you're shit out of luck.

[swbarnett]

Lets see. Public votes for gubbermint. Gubbermint passes law. Gubbermint expects Popos to enforce law, pays them to do it. Popo Bosses set policy. Policy gets enforced.
That's the best case of Chinese whispers I've ever seen. No way can the police claim that they have a mandate from the majority of the population for any law that they enforce.

Put each new law to a binding referendum and maybe then a mandate has been given.

[rastuscat]

That's the best case of Chinese whispers I've ever seen. No way can the police claim that they have a mandate from the majority of the population for any law that they enforce.

Put each new law to a binding referendum and maybe then a mandate has been given.

Sorry. It's the system we have here and now. Until it changes, it's how we roll.

[swbarnett]

That's the freaken problem with democracy...
The problem with democracy is that as low as 50.1% of the population can impose a behaviour pattern on the remaining 49.9%. Even when letting the 49.9% choose their own preferred behaviour pattern has absolutely no ill effect on the 50.1%.

Now, in the NZ parliamentary democracy, as little as 61 people (0.0013%) can decide behaviour patterns for the other 4,432,939 (as at 2012).

[swbarnett]

Sorry. It's the system we have here and now. Until it changes, it's how we roll.
That attitude is why it is so hard to change it. Most people are content with "good enough" and don't give two shits about the minorities in the population that just want to live their lives in their own way to the detriment of noone.

[eelracing]

it's how we roll.

:clap:Goodone.

Does that roll come with lashings of cream and cinnamon?
Well chug it down and get back to work you fat bastard.

[Zedder]

Sorry. It's the system we have here and now. Until it changes, it's how we roll.

How's it looking for that MOTO NZ job rtc?

[pritch]

So why do so many rant on KB about shit like this? and so often too...<_<

The occasional venting is good for their mental health?

[rastuscat]

How's it looking for that MOTO NZ job rtc?

Missed out. There's a Popo rep somewhere near the council and they thought it wouldnt be fair to have too much Popo representation. I applied as a private citizen but can understand what they decided.

[roogazza]

Now, in the NZ parliamentary democracy, as little as 61 people (0.0013%) can decide behaviour patterns for the other 4,432,939 (as at 2012).
And man there are some bloody dropkicks in amongst that lot SW.

[Zedder]

And man there are some bloody dropkicks in amongst that lot SW.

They're are a special breed for sure.

In terms of the speed tolerance reduction issue though, ACC have the biggest part to play in the lies about it all.

[stevedee]

I would like to see more enforcement of the keep to the left rule that should be applied on all NZ roads that are single roads. Like most of the state highway I mean.

I have often seen cars approaching each other on the open highway, both almost hugging the centre line, closing distance between them probably only 10 feet or less. If they had been to the left there would have been enough room for another car without problems. Keeping to the left just makes sense. It gives a huge buffer that most people dont appreciate because they have never thought it through.

Why is there not a push for this going into the holiday season, on the TV and radio? In my opinion for what it is worth it would help more than a speed tolerance focus.

[SMOKEU]

Why is there not a push for this going into the holiday season, on the TV and radio? In my opinion for what it is worth it would help more than a speed tolerance focus.

Because it's easier to enforce speeding laws than things that actually kill people, like overtaking on blind corners.

[scumdog]

Because it's easier to enforce speeding laws than things that actually kill people, like overtaking on blind corners.

Yer, I never deal with people cutting blind corners, best to just leave them and ping somebody doing 105kph...:weird::rolleyes:

ASo...Grasshopper, how did you come by this wisdom, this awareness of people not being prosecuted for 'cutting blind corners'???<_<

[swbarnett]

closing distance between them probably only 10 feet or less.
You want to go try the mountain roads in north Italy. I was being almost screamed at by my passenger to get away from the cliff while passing a Ferrari coming the other way with less than an inch between mirrors, That's less than 2 inches total clearence. Oh, and the Ferrari had about the same to the cliff on the other side.

[rastuscat]

I hosted a thread a couple of years back about a campaign we did on people cutting corners.

Of course, it got the usual suspects upset. It was suddenly all about revenue collecting. I even posted a pic of a ute on the wrong side of the road, and was told it was okay as he had a good view across the corner.

Doesn't matter what we do, we can't please everyone.

So we don't try.

[Zedder]

I hosted a thread a couple of years back about a campaign we did on people cutting corners.

Of course, it got the usual suspects upset. It was suddenly all about revenue collecting. I even posted a pic of a ute on the wrong side of the road, and was told it was okay as he had a good view across the corner.

Doesn't matter what we do, we can't please everyone.

So we don't try.

And yet on here it was "Good on you rastuscat" etc etc. Interesting...

[swbarnett]

I hosted a thread a couple of years back about a campaign we did on people cutting corners.

Of course, it got the usual suspects upset. It was suddenly all about revenue collecting. I even posted a pic of a ute on the wrong side of the road, and was told it was okay as he had a good view across the corner.

Doesn't matter what we do, we can't please everyone.

So we don't try.
If you (police in general) actually took the circumstances into account instead of blindly applying the letter of the law, you'd get more sympathy*.



*And probably more compliance because your message would be more believable.

[Dave-]

Afterall, it has been said that 80% of all fatalities occurr under the speed limit.

Can we stop using this statistic? it's not true and a pointless statistic even if it were true.

[Jantar]

I hosted a thread a couple of years back about a campaign we did on people cutting corners.

Of course, it got the usual suspects upset. It was suddenly all about revenue collecting. I even posted a pic of a ute on the wrong side of the road, and was told it was okay as he had a good view across the corner.

Doesn't matter what we do, we can't please everyone.

So we don't try.

This thread? http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140920-Collected-some-revenue-today

Looks to me like almost universal support for that exercise.

[Jantar]

Can we stop using this statistic? it's not true and a pointless statistic even if it were true.
OK, what is the correct statistic? Show us and I'll certainly use it instead.

[scumdog]

If you (police in general) actually took the circumstances into account instead of blindly applying the letter of the law, you'd get more sympathy*.



*And probably more compliance because your message would be more believable.


We're not after sympathy - so sling the shit if makes you happy. (or even if it doesn't)


And EVERYBODY has an excuse as to why they 'had' to cut the corner...

[swbarnett]

Can we stop using this statistic? it's not true and a pointless statistic even if it were true.
How so pointless?

And if you've got a reference to what the actual figure is please let us know.

[Dave-]

OK, what is the correct statistic? Show us and I'll certainly use it instead.

I dunno, burden of proof is on the person asserting the claim.

I doubt a correct statistic even exists.


How so pointless?

And if you've got a reference to what the actual figure is please let us know.

It's pointless because it's so ambiguous. Millions of people have died below the speed limit, people have been dying at speeds lower than the speed limit for thousands of years!

[swbarnett]

We're not after sympathy - so sling the shit if makes you happy. (or even if it doesn't)
I mean sympathy in the sense that you have people on side agreeing with your application of the law.


And EVERYBODY has an excuse as to why they 'had' to cut the corner...
I have cut a few corners when visibility etc. was up to the task (like is taught by the UK police). I've never needed to.

[Gremlin]

I have cut a few corners when visibility etc. was up to the task (like is taught by the UK police). I've never needed to.
I know the UK does this, but it isn't legal in NZ.

[scumdog]

I have cut a few corners when visibility etc. was up to the task (like is taught by the UK police). I've never needed to.

You do what you want - but I doubt many who had a head-on while cutting a corner ever thought they had anything but 'visibility up to the task'.:(

[Gremlin]

You do what you want - but I doubt many who had a head-on while cutting a corner ever thought they had anything but 'visibility up to the task'.:(
Well, one of the problems with NZ roads is you think you have clear visibility, meanwhile, there's a blind dip or the like...

Having had a close shave making the mistake above, now I won't overtake until I KNOW it's clear visibility, by seeing the whole road surface... Never assume... Also, often bikers seem to expect any oncoming vehicle to be a slow moving truck, when it could equally be a fast moving bike. Now think how much space you really have, to overtake.

[scumdog]

when it could equally be a fast moving bike.


Who'd a thunk THAT could ever happen???;)

[Gremlin]

Who'd a thunk THAT could ever happen???;)
Good point. They're not going any faster than 104 for the next 1.5 months :D

[Zedder]

Research on raised speed limits without significant rise in fatalities:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1541-1338.2005.00152.x/abstract

[scumdog]

Research on raised speed limits without significant rise in fatalities:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1541-1338.2005.00152.x/abstract

LIke NZ did back in the mid-80's? - from 80kph to 100kph?



I bet if the limit was 180kph there would still be people whinging about the ticket they got for 'only' 190kph...:yes:

[Zedder]

LIke NZ did back in the mid-80's? - from 80kph to 100kph?
I bet if the limit was 180kph there would still be people whinging about the ticket they got for 'only' 190kph...:yes:




Yeah the mid 80s when there was also a large increase in drink driving offences.

Nah, at 190kmph you lot couldn't catch them...

[Madness]

I bet if the limit was 180kph there would still be people whinging about the ticket they got for 'only' 190kph...:yes:

I'd be whinging more about the price of petrol. My bike fair drinks the stuff at 190.

[pritch]

ASo...Grasshopper, how did you come by this wisdom, this awareness of people not being prosecuted for 'cutting blind corners'???<_<

SD, in my recent experience, as noted earlier in this thread, it would appear some of your colleagues are among the worst offenders?

[Jantar]

..
I bet if the limit was 180kph there would still be people whinging about the ticket they got for 'only' 190kph...:yes:
The Canadian report on speed limits, linked to earlier in this thread, showed that even when there was a substantial increase in speed limits the average speed driven at only rose slightly. if the speed limit is set at what 85% of people are comfortable driving below, then accidents decrease, not because people are driving faster, but because they are driving to conditions rather than to a target.

[Edbear]

The Canadian report on speed limits, linked to earlier in this thread, showed that even when there was a substantial increase in speed limits the average speed driven at only rose slightly. if the speed limit is set at what 85% of people are comfortable driving below, then accidents decrease, not because people are driving faster, but because they are driving to conditions rather than to a target.

But, the sign said 100km/h is not a target and we should drive to the conditions... :Police:

[swbarnett]

I know the UK does this, but it isn't legal in NZ.
I know. My point is that the UK police are often touted as the authority on all things to do with safe driving; so if they're tought to do it then I highly doubt there's anything wrong with it. Legal or not.

[Jantar]

But, the sign said 100km/h is not a target and we should drive to the conditions... :Police:
Yes, but if we do that we get speeding tickets.:rolleyes:

[Tigadee]

The Canadian report on speed limits, linked to earlier in this thread, showed that even when there was a substantial increase in speed limits the average speed driven at only rose slightly. if the speed limit is set at what 85% of people are comfortable driving below, then accidents decrease, not because people are driving faster, but because they are driving to conditions rather than to a target.

Before we do that, can we please teach road users that the over-taking lane is the OVER-TAKING lane, not the cruising lane? The "What? I'm at the speed limit, why should I keep left?" mentality is just :facepalm:

[swbarnett]

You do what you want - but I doubt many who had a head-on while cutting a corner ever thought they had anything but 'visibility up to the task'.:(
I have NEVER crossed the center line with even the slightest risk of a head-on.

OK. It's illegal to cross the center line when you're the only vehicle on a given stretch of road. However, all I have to do to make the exact same manoeuvre legal (assuming adequate visibility etc.) is to put another vehicle on the road and call it an overtake. Even a bicycle would do.

[swbarnett]

Well, one of the problems with NZ roads is you think you have clear visibility, meanwhile, there's a blind dip or the like...

Having had a close shave making the mistake above, now I won't overtake until I KNOW it's clear visibility, by seeing the whole road surface... Never assume...
Exactly. As I like to say, you must "see nothing" rather than "not see anything".

Given how this is done I don't see how crossing the center line is any different than a legal overtake.

[R650R]

Given how this is done I don't see how crossing the center line is any different than a legal overtake.

When that corner cutting campaign first came out I thought it was a bit rough, but 99% of motorists are on their side of the road 99% of the time.
There are very few places where its an effort to stay in your lane rather than cutting the corner. Granted there are a few places where the road is poorly maintained and its much more comfortable to straddle the line for a little bit rather than slow down or try miss potholes etc be it in truck car or bike.
More and more though you see people turning in too tight or cutting the centre when they don't need to so I have no problem with enforcement of this as its targeting sloppy drivers.

[R650R]

Well, one of the problems with NZ roads is you think you have clear visibility, meanwhile, there's a blind dip or the like...

Having had a close shave making the mistake above, now I won't overtake until I KNOW it's clear visibility, by seeing the whole road surface... Never assume... Also, often bikers seem to expect any oncoming vehicle to be a slow moving truck, when it could equally be a fast moving bike. Now think how much space you really have, to overtake.

Been there done that in my younger days, between the door handles of a falcon and the BMW coming the other way that didn't see. Nothing but pure luck and the fact that both drivers were keeping left saved me.
No time to brake, just suck it in and pray. Much more careful these days!

[swbarnett]

When that corner cutting campaign first came out I thought it was a bit rough, but 99% of motorists are on their side of the road 99% of the time.
There are very few places where its an effort to stay in your lane rather than cutting the corner. Granted there are a few places where the road is poorly maintained and its much more comfortable to straddle the line for a little bit rather than slow down or try miss potholes etc be it in truck car or bike.
More and more though you see people turning in too tight or cutting the centre when they don't need to so I have no problem with enforcement of this as its targeting sloppy drivers.
Agreed. "Corner cutting" without adequate visibility is not good. I used to be in the habit of straight-lining a series of corners where you can see the last corner from the first i.e. there is no way in hell an alert driver could miss any on-coming traffic. I haven't done that for a number of years now as usually there's at least one other vehicle present.

Basically my point is that we are talking about two different things here:

1. Cutting a blind corner and risking a head-on.

2. Crossing the centre-line in a manner tantamount to over-taking which, except for the lack of another vehicle, is perfectly legal and safe.

[SMOKEU]

Yer, I never deal with people cutting blind corners, best to just leave them and ping somebody doing 105kph...:weird::rolleyes:



Here's an idea: Have hidden cameras set up on blind corners on the open road. Anyone who gets busted overtaking or just driving/riding on the wrong side of the road around the blind corner gets their day in court on a charge of reckless driving, or similar. Have markers on the side of the road at pre-determined intervals within camera view, so judging the vehicle distance from the corner then becomes easier. It should be pretty easy to get convictions as there's not much anyone can use as a defence if it's all on camera.

[caspernz]

Here's an idea: Have hidden cameras set up on blind corners on the open road. Anyone who gets busted overtaking or just driving/riding on the wrong side of the road around the blind corner gets their day in court on a charge of reckless driving, or similar. Have markers on the side of the road at pre-determined intervals within camera view, so judging the vehicle distance from the corner then becomes easier. It should be pretty easy to get convictions as there's not much anyone can use as a defence if it's all on camera.

Haha, that requires actual police work though...

In France for a while the cops used to issue tickets to truckers touching the centreline with their wheels, not even going over...just touching...so don't go giving the local plods any ideas huh?!

[Swoop]

...because they are driving to conditions rather than to a target.
That is the only option. "Conditions" are critical. If a driver cannot keep their conveyance within the white lines at whatever speed, then they are out of control. "Slow down Marquez"!


Before we do that, can we please teach road users that the over-taking lane is the OVER-TAKING lane, not the cruising lane? The "What? I'm at the speed limit, why should I keep left?" mentality is just :facepalm:
Sorry but the plod need to concentrate on the speeders, not dangerous people like red light runners or people who can't indicate, hog lanes, don't stop at a "STOP" sign, etc, etc...
Donuts don't pay for themselves you know.

[SPman]

And EVERYBODY has an excuse as to why they 'had' to cut the corner... Other than a huge boulder on "your" side of the road, there is NO excuse for cutting a corner, and even then only with caution! If you can't get around a corner, or flow corners together without cutting one, rethink your whole riding/driving strategy! Keep racetrack lines for the racetrack!
Cutting corners can lead to a resetting of your "default" road position that can lead to cutting corners, without actually thinking about it when you don't want to, which can (and has) lead to unfortunate consequences!

[R650R]

Here's an idea: Have hidden cameras set up on blind corners on the open road. Anyone who gets busted overtaking or just driving/riding on the wrong side of the road around the blind corner gets their day in court on a charge of reckless driving, or similar. Have markers on the side of the road at pre-determined intervals within camera view, so judging the vehicle distance from the corner then becomes easier. It should be pretty easy to get convictions as there's not much anyone can use as a defence if it's all on camera.

Actually there are a lot of reasons for a valid defence, swerving/moving to avoid debri,livestock, feral hitchhikers, a shadow that looked like any of those etc... Regular positioning of such devices and resupply of batteries etc and downloading would be quite a drain on resources too, hence why they just target the quick and not dead yet with speed tickets instead.
Its a great idea but one of those things difficult to implement.
Near where I live there is a free left turn into a two lane road, ie NO stopping while turning left. Now anywhere from 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 drivers stops there obstructing traffic!
The only reason why I can think of is they are not confident enough to make a lane change up the road into right lane (if they need to) before the major junction about a half km up road.
IMO none of those drivers should have a licence, can we have a no stopping camera??? I've even seen police obstructed by these types and they do nothing about it either. BTW there is a traffic island so 100% impossible to be hit while completing the turn.

[scumdog]

Agreed. "Corner cutting" without adequate visibility is not good. I used to be in the habit of straight-lining a series of corners where you can see the last corner from the first i.e. there is no way in hell an alert driver could miss any on-coming traffic. I haven't done that for a number of years now as usually there's at least one other vehicle present.

Basically my point is that we are talking about two different things here:

1. Cutting a blind corner and risking a head-on.

2. Crossing the centre-line in a manner tantamount to over-taking which, except for the lack of another vehicle, is perfectly legal and safe.

I wonder if it was 1. or 2. that happened on the Rimutakas?:(

[Zedder]

I wonder if it was 1. or 2. that happened on the Rimutakas?:(

Your post is number 666. It's a sign I tell ya, a sign of evilness you have brought upon us. Not only that, but your user name spelt backwards is godmucs. We're doomed...

[swbarnett]

I wonder if it was 1. or 2. that happened on the Rimutakas?:(
If it's an accident you're talking about it would have to be 1. (or 2. without the required visibility etc.)

[rastuscat]

That is the only option. "Conditions" are critical. If a driver cannot keep their conveyance within the white lines at whatever speed, then they are out of control. "Slow down Marquez"!


Sorry but the plod need to concentrate on the speeders, not dangerous people like red light runners or people who can't indicate, hog lanes, don't stop at a "STOP" sign, etc, etc...
Donuts don't pay for themselves you know.

And speeding revenue, like other ticket fees, doesn't pay for enforcement either. I've been paying for my own donuts for years.

[Zedder]

And speeding revenue, like other ticket fees, doesn't pay for enforcement either. I've been paying for my own donuts for years.

The revenue from speeding tickets etc doesn't directly go towards enforcement but it does go into the Gubbermints Consolidated Fund.

All Gubbermint expenditure comes from that account so police pay, cars, radios etc get funded from it.

So, given you're a Gubbermint employee, can you honestly say with a hand on your stomach, that your donuts are not funded from this Consolidated Fund...

[Kickaha]

So, given you're a Gubbermint employee, can you honestly say with a hand on your stomach, that your donuts are not funded from this Consolidated Fund...
Well not all of them, I bought him some one time

Mint, their approach seems to be working unless we can kill 52 + people in the next week or so
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20429536/govt-hopes-for-lowest-road-toll-in-decades/

[Zedder]

Well not all of them, I bought him some one time

Mint, their approach seems to be working unless we can kill 52 + people in the next week or so
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20429536/govt-hopes-for-lowest-road-toll-in-decades/



Lol, good one.

Only time will tell if it's successful. It's great the way the article listed the number of steps to take to ensure a safer journey. The NZ Herald article was a bit longer and listed safer drivers, safer roads and signage, safer vehicles and better medical care etc as helping to reduce the death toll.

[Jantar]

Well not all of them, I bought him some one time

Mint, their approach seems to be working unless we can kill 52 + people in the next week or so
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20429536/govt-hopes-for-lowest-road-toll-in-decades/
We were on track for the lowest road toll ever WITHOUT this draconian move. Or did we kill 58 people last december?

[Tazz]

Son of a bish! Found out today I got the first speeding ticket of my life back on the 25th of November up in Auckland. 62km/h in a 50km/h coming off the motorway. Damn those fast rental cars and camera vans XD Nah I'm actually a bit gutted. Usually pretty good with the slowing down just before the sign (Woodend cop trains you well) but shit happens eh.


Well not all of them, I bought him some one time

Mint, their approach seems to be working unless we can kill 52 + people in the next week or so


<img src="http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS30lViWj7AzKg93oNhz81eH_905_lbD J64uNRvA7f_dgi8ewGq0w" height=400 width=600>

<img src="http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQclqRZhyXeaa9pSpmu981qLCXyeaNCF Bqx-0fRC10QxuDLWUYp" height=400 width=600>

[rastuscat]

Actually there are a lot of reasons for a valid defence, swerving/moving to avoid debri,livestock, feral hitchhikers, a shadow that looked like any of those etc...

The main reason we get is that the road was clear. That doesn't make it okay. The ones you've mentioned are very rare.

Don't forget, we stand and watch those corners that get cut when we run operations. We make sure we have a clear view of the corner. If there is debris or livestock, we'd see it too.

The excuses we hear virtually always are purely self justification.

[rastuscat]

The revenue from speeding tickets etc doesn't directly go towards enforcement but it does go into the Gubbermints Consolidated Fund.

All Gubbermint expenditure comes from that account so police pay, cars, radios etc get funded from it.

So, given you're a Gubbermint employee, can you honestly say with a hand on your stomach, that your donuts are not funded from this Consolidated Fund...

Certainly there is a link.

Now go and tell the doctors and nurses at your local GPs that they are revenue collectors. They get gubbermint funding for delivering health care services. They take extra from you, so you are paying directly to them, and also indirectly via your taxes.

You'll find a link to anyone who receives gubbermint funding.

[Zedder]

Certainly there is a link.

Now go and tell the doctors and nurses at your local GPs that they are revenue collectors. They get gubbermint funding for delivering health care services. They take extra from you, so you are paying directly to them, and also indirectly via your taxes.

You'll find a link to anyone who receives gubbermint funding.

I'm glad we agree on the link.

However, the New Zealand health services primary duty is to provide health care, not gather revenue. Maybe they should be actively out there gathering revenue though given they face a shortfall of $230 million currently, and are worried they won't be able to provide adequate coverage for next year.

[Akzle]

Certainly there is a link.

Now go and tell the doctors and nurses at your local GPs that they are revenue collectors. They get gubbermint funding for delivering health care services. They take extra from you, so you are paying directly to them, and also indirectly via your taxes.

You'll find a link to anyone who receives gubbermint funding.

i think the problem with the funding, is the perception that you exist only to enforce government policy,
rather than, y'know,
actually benefit the community in any way whatsoe'er...

[Mike.Gayner]

Was cruising behind a cop on the motorway here in Tauranga at 110km/h yesterday. Zero tolerance unless you're a cop and you're late for lunch I guess.

[_Shrek_]

Was cruising behind a cop on the motorway here in Tauranga at 110km/h yesterday. Zero tolerance unless you're a cop and you're late for lunch I guess.

:nono: that would be for the hot doughnut shop, they taste better hot :whistle:

[swbarnett]

The main reason we get is that the road was clear. That doesn't make it okay. The ones you've mentioned are very rare.

Don't forget, we stand and watch those corners that get cut when we run operations. We make sure we have a clear view of the corner. If there is debris or livestock, we'd see it too.

The excuses we hear virtually always are purely self justification.
Let's get one thing clear. What you're talking about is cutting a corner without adequate visibility.

Given that there is adequate visbility and a clear road what's the difference between simply spending a short time across the center line and overtaking another vehicle in the same place under the same conditions?

[swbarnett]

Certainly there is a link.

Now go and tell the doctors and nurses at your local GPs that they are revenue collectors. They get gubbermint funding for delivering health care services. They take extra from you, so you are paying directly to them, and also indirectly via your taxes.

You'll find a link to anyone who receives gubbermint funding.
The trouble with that argument is that the public health sector doesn't extort money from us under false pretenses.

[Tazz]

The trouble with that argument is that the public health sector doesn't extort money from us under false pretenses.

I'm not so sure about that :sweatdrop

[swbarnett]

I was recently reading a report which found (not surprisingly) black cars are involved in 47% of crashes.
This statistic is useless if not accompanied by the proportion of black cars in the vehicle fleet.

[rastuscat]

Let's get one thing clear. What you're talking about is cutting a corner without adequate visibility.

Given that there is adequate visbility and a clear road what's the difference between simply spending a short time across the center line and overtaking another vehicle in the same place under the same conditions?

Thing is, driving is habitual. If we let people cut the open corners enough times, what they learn subconsciously is that it's okay to cut corners. Until one day they make a human error, and cut a corner when it's not a good idea.

Anyone who stays on the correct side of the road is at less risk of a head on than someone who strays from habit.

Please don't think that everyone who uses the roads make well evaluated, well informed decisions every time they do something.

[Ocean1]

Thing is, driving is habitual.

Aye. People habitually take the path of least danger. They do, have a wee google.

And they continue to transgress over the white line rather than navigate that green slime under the bank, there no matter what the local "reality" is.

Have the local defenders of real estate discovered what level of corporate safety we're happy to call a target yet?

[swbarnett]

Thing is, driving is habitual. If we let people cut the open corners enough times, what they learn subconsciously is that it's okay to cut corners. Until one day they make a human error, and cut a corner when it's not a good idea.
I see what you're saying. However, if you see someone cutting a corner correctly (in a safety sense) this is no indicator as to whether or not they are lilkely to fall in to this subconscious trap.

Does this mean we should never drive at 100kph because this will mean we're subconsciously conditioned to do so when it's not a good idea?


Anyone who stays on the correct side of the road is at less risk of a head on than someone who strays from habit.
And if they stay at home they're at less risk of an accident full stop. This is a case of a perfectly safe maneauvre being used as evidence of a bad driver jsut because it's seen as unnecessary. Riding a motorcycle is unnecessary also.


Please don't think that everyone who uses the roads make well evaluated, well informed decisions every time they do something.
I don't. That's why I'm still alive.

[Zedder]

This statistic is useless if not accompanied by the proportion of black cars in the vehicle fleet.

Settle, it was the conclusion of a report and should have been taken in context.

[bluninja]

Thing is, driving is habitual.

I went round the corner to the shops. Was going to walk as it's not far but suddenly found myself in the car. I guess driving for me is habitual :bleh:

[scumdog]

Was cruising behind a cop on the motorway here in Tauranga at 110km/h yesterday. Zero tolerance unless you're a cop and you're late for lunch I guess.

You got a calibrated speedo too????;)

[KIPS powervalve]

Despite all the grumbling on here, I was on the motorway in the old cage and there were cops everywhere. Just the presence seemed to be having an effect. Doesn't stop idiots being idiots, cutting others off, not using indicators, talking on mobile while in charge of a 10 tonner with a laden trailer, etc.

[Akzle]

fuck, i got so high yesterday that driving at the speed limit was actually scary...

[rastuscat]

Just viewed the new tv ad promoting the message to slow down.

It's being released 5 Jan.

It'll be interesting to see the results. Oddly, it's along the lines of what I've been banging on about for the last few years.

Thought provoking. Akzle, you'll need to stay off the dak a few days or the point will fade into your haze.

[Akzle]

i think the solution is clear. If you want to slow people down on the roads, get them really, really stoned....

[kiwi cowboy]

Um........did we ever say that the policy doesnt apply to nice people?

It's been fairly well publicised. Nil ambush there.

I was sticking out like a beacon, likely to be why I got so few speeds. Like, one. By deduction I got somone who wasn't paying attention.

So if it makes you feel better., think of thr ticket as one for someone not paying attention.

So what your really saying is,
The guy got a ticket for not paying enough attention to his speedo but was watching the road and traffic around him staying with the flow but leaving a 3 second gap and just happened to sneak up from the 103 kms every one else was traveling at to 105 briefly?.:lol::2thumbsup

[rastuscat]

So what your really saying is,
The guy got a ticket for not paying enough attention to his speedo but was watching the road and traffic around him staying with the flow but leaving a 3 second gap and just happened to sneak up from the 103 kms every one else was traveling at to 105 briefly?.:lol::2thumbsup

Wow, everyone's an expert on what actually happened. Even when they weren't there. Still, this is KB.

What actually happened was the Police reduced the tolerance to 4 km/h for all of December and January. They then spent a gazillion dollars advertising the fact in the media, TV, papers, magazines, Facebook, Twitter, pretty much anywhere they could.

Then someone got caught in excess of the tolerance.

Is it really a surprise it happened?

For the record, when we do speed checks we find that most folk are actually travelling between 90 and 95, not the 103 you quote. Anyone doing over the well publicized tolerance is actually doing about 10 above what most others are.

Still, never let the facts stand in the way of a good post.

[bogan]

Wow, everyone's an expert on what actually happened. Even when they weren't there. Still, this is KB.

What actually happened was the Police reduced the tolerance to 4 km/h for all of December and January. They then spent a gazillion dollars advertising the fact in the media, TV, papers, magazines, Facebook, Twitter, pretty much anywhere they could.

Then someone got caught in excess of the tolerance.

Is it really a surprise it happened?

For the record, when we do speed checks we find that most folk are actually travelling between 90 and 95, not the 103 you quote. Anyone doing over the well publicized tolerance is actually doing about 10 above what most others are.

Still, never let the facts stand in the way of a good post.

Oh wow, Sir told us plebs we were going to get fucked over first, well that changes everything, now I can sit back and just enjoy another pointless road tax since we were adequately warned :rolleyes:

Do you ever get the feeling our problem is not with the amount of warning we were given? but with the stupidity of the measure itself?

[Zedder]

Oh wow, Sir told us plebs we were going to get fucked over first, well that changes everything, now I can sit back and just enjoy another pointless road tax since we were adequately warned :rolleyes:

Do you ever get the feeling our problem is not with the amount of warning we were given? but with the stupidity of the measure itself?

Now c'mon bogan, don't hassle rtc, it's not his fault although he does keep coming back for more.

The answer to life, the universe and everything (updated version) will be revealed on Jan 5...

[bogan]

Now c'mon bogan, don't hassle rtc, it's not his fault although he does keep coming back for more.

The answer to life, the universe and everything (updated version) will be revealed on Jan 5...

But he used to seem pretty onto it and down to earth, sad to see those who shone so bright grow so dim...

[Akzle]

For the record, when we do speed checks we find that most folk are actually travelling between 90 and 95,

actually, bike or cage, if im not interested in conversation with your gang, or in no particular hurry, i sit at a gps 109.
Of course, if asked i say 99.5
fuck that really gets some of you going!
One cop {uc} followed me for 5km leading up to a camera. Only pulled me up after i braked before the camera. Wonder if he'd hav done me if i got cam'd. Probably. But i think he was enjoying the drive.
'dont bullshit me son, ive followed you for 5 km at nearly twice the speed limit...'
'got any proof?
...Good day, bob.'

[Zedder]

But he used to seem pretty onto it and down to earth, sad to see those who shone so bright grow so dim...

Lol, but like you posted earlier at least he's more inclinded to discuss things these days. This time I'm surprised we got this far as previously I've just had to "walk away".

He's very determined and passionate about safety and saving lives obviously.

[swbarnett]

Now c'mon bogan, don't hassle rtc, it's not his fault although he does keep coming back for more.

The answer to life, the universe and everything (updated version) will be revealed on Jan 5...
You're a bit behind the times. The rest of all know that the answer is 42 and was released to the public by kind permission of the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries, and other professional thinking persons in 1977.

The problem is that we don't know the question. And it's impossible to know both the answer and the question in the same universe.

[R650R]

For the record, when we do speed checks we find that most folk are actually travelling between 90 and 95, not the 103 you quote.


Most folk usually know when the cops are about and their usual haunts so I'd say your stats are probably distorted. And with the traffic flows these days there is usually someone at the front holding things up.
I'd say people drive differently to depending on if they are in traffic or travelling solo. I'll happily drive/ride at 90-95 if the traffic is such that its not worth overtaking...
Good luck with the ad, I hope its something original, plausible and informative and not prejudiced about people who like looking at gold Chinese cats or buying a tray of frosty pigs to shout the workmates lunch.
And those eftpos machines, every shop has a different terminal these days lol... Still think Russian dashcams would do it and be budget friendly too...
BTW didn't email you for goodies as those ACC pressure gauges are rubbish. I have two of them already, they seem to work okay for awhile then give wildly different readings +/- 10psi...

[Zedder]

You're a bit behind the times. The rest of all know that the answer is 42 and was released to the public by kind permission of the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries, and other professional thinking persons in 1977.

The problem is that we don't know the question. And it's impossible to know both the answer and the question in the same universe.

Heh, that's why I wrote it was the updated version.

[kiwi cowboy]

Wow, everyone's an expert on what actually happened. Even when they weren't there. Still, this is KB.

What actually happened was the Police reduced the tolerance to 4 km/h for all of December and January. They then spent a gazillion dollars advertising the fact in the media, TV, papers, magazines, Facebook, Twitter, pretty much anywhere they could.

Then someone got caught in excess of the tolerance.

Is it really a surprise it happened?

For the record, when we do speed checks we find that most folk are actually travelling between 90 and 95, not the 103 you quote. Anyone doing over the well publicized tolerance is actually doing about 10 above what most others are.

Still, never let the facts stand in the way of a good post.


:pinch:That post was a bit of a wind up:cry:

While I have a lot of respect for you guys ( I have a good mate that's a cop and was coached for rugby by another you probably know as he lives/works in ch ch) I don't agree with the speed kills by its self.

From my experience (I do not profess to be an expert) the danger is more in people not DRIVING TO THE CONDITIONS I.E not keeping left,cutting corners,passing on blind hills or bends,not leaving a suitable following distance, all of which are dangerous manovers and most are below the speed limit.

I cannot explain my self to go any further so will not as it will come out wrong..

[Jantar]

You're a bit behind the times. The rest of all know that the answer is 42 and was released to the public by kind permission of the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries, and other professional thinking persons in 1977.

The problem is that we don't know the question. And it's impossible to know both the answer and the question in the same universe.

OK, OFF topic, but, that issue has been solved. It was initially thought the Question was "what is 6 x 9?". Because in our univers, that did not give the universal answer 42, it was thought that we didn't, and couldn't, know the question. In fact both question and answer are correct, just in Base 13.

[swbarnett]

Heh, that's why I wrote it was the updated version.
Damn! Subconcious work filter's obviously working overtime. Must be time to leave work.

[swbarnett]

OK, OFF topic, but, that issue has been solved. It was initially thought the Question was "what is 6 x 9?". Because in our univers, that did not give the universal answer 42, it was thought that we didn't, and couldn't, know the question. In fact both question and answer are correct, just in Base 13.
If you listen to the Tertiay Phase Hactar clearly states that you can't know both in the same universe (I like your reasoning though).

[tri boy]

The idiot drivers are out in force today, following too close, unable to stay on their side, aggressive attitudes etc.
I'm predicting fatalities aplenty this season.
The cars are better equipped with allsorts of electronic gizmos to aid drivers, but they are faster, and being operated badly on very average roads.
Breathe deep and let the muppets through. MHO

[scumdog]

Oh wow, Sir told us plebs we were going to get fucked over first, well that changes everything, now I can sit back and just enjoy another pointless road tax since we were adequately warned :rolleyes:

Do you ever get the feeling our problem is not with the amount of warning we were given? but with the stupidity of the measure itself?

But you must like the 'problem' - else you wouldn't still be here.

And a crafty alert bugger like you probably won't have to pay this 'pointless road tax' eh?? (Unless you enjoy it...)

I cannot think of a complete list of the things that irk me....GST, rego fees, insurance fees etc etc...but I realise the futility of banging on about them on KB etc again and again and again..ad infinitum ad neaseum..

Still, whatever spins your crank...

[Akzle]

GST, rego fees, insurance fees etc etc...but I realise the futility of banging on about them on KB..ad infinitum ad neaseum..

so.... why bother paying any of that shit?

[scumdog]

so.... why bother paying any of that shit?

Uh, where did I say I paid?????

[SPman]

For the record, when we do speed checks we find that most folk are actually travelling between 90 and 95, not the 103 you quote. Anyone doing over the well publicized tolerance is actually doing about 10 above what most others are.

I run a GPS speedo app - on the Hiace and Getz - 100 indicated was about 95 for the Hiace, 96 on the Getz, the Transit is around 95, however the i30 was spot on 100!! Bugger!
Sitting on the cruise control on the Transit or i30 at GPS 100 kph, and you're inevitably 5-10kph faster than those who are sitting "at a legal speed - my speedo shows it!"

The program has been tried out on 4 different appliances and produces similar readings accurate +/- 1kph. Only problem is heavy shading by trees, tunnels where it gets broken satellite contacts, so can be momentarily slow to pick up quick speed changes. Good app though - I run it on the phone in a holder and don't have to take my eyes off the road to peer into a gloomy instrument cluster.

On the bike I just ride to conditions - rarely look at the speedo - unless I see a polis in the distance!

[Gremlin]

For city travel at least, I've actually come up with a theory.

Riding around the whole of last week, then Mon, Tues this week, there was a marked difference on the roads between the weeks. Last week was pretty crazy in general but somewhat expected, if you like.

This week was definitely more unpredictable. Random things like travelling in the right lane, then suddenly grabbing a park on the left side of the road. I put it down to either being distracted with other thoughts (ie, the lead up to Christmas), or being in unfamiliar areas running errands as work had finished for the year, or not being used to driving, perhaps they commute by bus, train etc.

Regardless, despite doing 10k+ a year by bike just commuting around Auckland, and seeing almost anything that's possible, I still found myself slightly scared, because there was no prediction of what someone would do, as they clearly didn't know what they were doing yet....

Solution? Stay off the road, it was the only thing I could think of...

[rastuscat]

The reason why most are gking 90 to 95 are that their speedos are 5-10 kmh optomistic. So they arexall sticking to what they believe is 100, but its actually less.

Thats coz speedo error almost always makes you go slower, so it wont make you get pinged.

Just my observations.

[swbarnett]

Solution? Stay off the road, it was the only thing I could think of...
There is another way. Expect the unexpected. I honestly don't care too much what other vehicles do. It's up to me to put myself in a position to react in a manner that keeps me rubber side down.

[Gremlin]

There is another way. Expect the unexpected. I honestly don't care too much what other vehicles do. It's up to me to put myself in a position to react in a manner that keeps me rubber side down.
I've done enough mileage to read traffic quite successfully, but the last two days were different. Not all the time, but just a few moments which were more crazy than usual. I can pick that something isn't right, and know why, but for these two days, I didn't get the right answer, just that something was wrong.

Bit puzzling when you're used to getting it right...

[swbarnett]

I've done enough mileage to read traffic quite successfully, but the last two days were different. Not all the time, but just a few moments which were more crazy than usual. I can pick that something isn't right, and know why, but for these two days, I didn't get the right answer, just that something was wrong.
Can't say I noticed any different. If anything the traffic was lighter. Maybe it's because I'm CBD and south these days. IIRC you're mostly north, yes?


Bit puzzling when you're used to getting it right...
Indeed.

[Jantar]

...., ...

This week was definitely more unpredictable. Random things like travelling in the right lane, then suddenly grabbing a park on the left side of the road. I put it down to either being distracted with other thoughts (ie, the lead up to Christmas), or being in unfamiliar areas running errands as work had finished for the year, or not being used to driving, perhaps they commute by bus, train etc.....
I can't say I've noticed any difference this week compared to last week. Last week i didn't see any vehicles on my morning commute to work, and only two on the way home. Both were driving OK. This week I still didn't see any vehicles on my to work, but there were a couple more on the way home, both in clyde. I actually had to stop and give way to one of them. However they were all driving OK

[Gremlin]

Can't say I noticed any different. If anything the traffic was lighter. Maybe it's because I'm CBD and south these days. IIRC you're mostly north, yes?
Mostly the Southern between East Tamaki and the city, then CBD. Any time of day, multiple times of the day. Then also a bit of Northern up to Constellation (heh, boss did go up to Silverdale last week) then sometimes the North Western, but very little. Last week Thurs/Fri I was laughing to my boss exclaiming how I loved riding a bike because the traffic was absolutely crazy. Car parks in so many places etc. Monday was better than last week, but certain pockets like Newmarket weren't so great. Motorway was moving reasonably well though.


I actually had to stop and give way to one of them.
Oh jeez, you poor bastard. On the weekend clearly someone from your area decided he'd stopped at a red light long enough, and went a few seconds before it went green :eek:

[TimeOut]

Mostly the Southern between East Tamaki and the city, then CBD. Any time of day, multiple times of the day. Then also a bit of Northern up to Constellation (heh, boss did go up to Silverdale last week) then sometimes the North Western, but very little. Last week Thurs/Fri I was laughing to my boss exclaiming how I loved riding a bike because the traffic was absolutely crazy. Car parks in so many places etc. Monday was better than last week, but certain pockets like Newmarket weren't so great. Motorway was moving reasonably well though.


Oh jeez, you poor bastard. On the weekend clearly someone from your area decided he'd stopped at a red light long enough, and went a few seconds before it went green :eek:

What red lights, can't recall seeing any up that way, roundabouts are high tech enough

[caspernz]

The past week has been kinda funny on the big road...with the cruise set to 88 km/h actual in the truck, now catching up to about half the traffic. And even when Joe Public is doing only 90 they frantically slow down for a Kodak cash camera or a Bananas in Pyjamas conveyance :facepalm:

Still, seen enough disco lights at the side of the road, so there's still enough folks who feel brave to wind up their car beyond the 104 self destruct mark :innocent:

Can't help but feel sorry for the HP who have to enforce this interesting policy :shutup:

[roogazza]

Still, seen enough disco lights at the side of the road, so there's still enough folks who feel brave to wind up their car beyond the 104 self destruct mark :innocent:
Can't help but feel sorry for the HP who have to enforce this interesting policy :shutup:

They should still have discretion, If they don't, glad I'm no longer a Policeman.
They are a new breed nowdays ! Most of the ex MOT blokes should have moved on by now ?

[Akzle]

They should still have discretion, If they don't, glad I'm no longer a Policeman.
They are a new breed nowdays ! Most of the ex MOT blokes should have moved on by now ?

no, they were 'promoted' to policy making roles

[R650R]

Well I've just spent the last few days going round the block via Wanganui and not much seems changed really. Still heaps of people looking at the scenery and driving at 65-80 so no one can speed anyway.
saw very few cops in my travels...

[Reckless]

Discretion? Mate of mines son just got a ticket in his van Boxing Day, last In a line of four cars on a passing lane trying to get past two sheep trucks before the twisties into whanganui? 107k? Seems its safer to try and pass them elsewhere???
He explained the reasons, the cop witnessed what happened as he was targeting the passing lane with his radar gun.
He couldn't even understand how the cop could pick him out as they where all so close together tryin to all get past.
Ticket issued??

[swarfie]

Well I've just spent the last few days going round the block via Wanganui and not much seems changed really. Still heaps of people looking at the scenery and driving at 65-80 so no one can speed anyway.
saw very few cops in my travels...

I rode down to Waverley on the 24th then through to Wanganui to swing on an F1 sidecar and then home to Hamilton yesterday...only saw one cop the whole trip. They mustav been playing havock elsewhere, which I appreciated. Traffic was well behaved with not too many holding others up.

[Edbear]

Picked my wife up from work at 6pm Friday and drove to Kerikeri. Local cop was having a good time pinging drivers coming in on Grand Drive, Orewa. It changes from 70k to 50k and all he had to do was park up and pull everyone over as they slowed down coming through the lights. Ok, most drivers do tend to push the 70k area a bit far, but talk about shooting fish in a barrel.

Trip up was usually frustrating with the typical Northern traffic being made up of slow drivers who also happen to be incompetent to control a vehicle at any speed. Cops everywhere though, so I just relaxed and didn't push the overtaking.

Drivers up here generally travel around the 80k mark but slow to 70 or less for anything that looks like a corner. Few places to overtake without upsetting the ladies in the passenger seats so you just have to suck it up. This is where bikes are at their most practical and fun. Nice roads, lots of corners and "What traffic? "

[R650R]

I rode down to Waverley on the 24th then through to Wanganui to swing on an F1 sidecar and then home to Hamilton yesterday...only saw one cop the whole trip. They mustav been playing havock elsewhere, which I appreciated. Traffic was well behaved with not too many holding others up.

What colours were the chair and your riding gear, might have a few good sidecar images going onto the start/finish bridge. Saw one of the superbike guys lose his knee slider on the kerb!

[Kickaha]

What colours were the chair and your riding gear, might have a few good sidecar images going onto the start/finish bridge. Saw one of the superbike guys lose his knee slider on the kerb!

He was on #16 yellow, I was riding #49 white/pink

[Akzle]

Picked my wife up from work at 6pm Friday and drove to Kerikeri. Local cop was having a good time pinging drivers coming in on Grand Drive, Orewa. It changes from 70k to 50k and all he had to do was park up and pull everyone over as they slowed down coming through the lights. Ok, most drivers do tend to push the 70k area a bit far, but talk about shooting fish in a barrel.

Trip up was usually frustrating with the typical Northern traffic being made up of slow drivers who also happen to be incompetent to control a vehicle at any speed. Cops everywhere though, so I just relaxed and didn't push the overtaking.

Drivers up here generally travel around the 80k mark but slow to 70 or less for anything that looks like a corner. Few places to overtake without upsetting the ladies in the passenger seats so you just have to suck it up. This is where bikes are at their most practical and fun. Nice roads, lots of corners and "What traffic? "

who the fuck are you and whatve you done with ed?

[Edbear]

who the fuck are you and whatve you done with ed?

Changed from the White pills to the yellow and green ones. :innocent:

[R650R]

He was on #16 yellow, I was riding #49 white/pink

With compliments gentlemen

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3731/11600396173_38760a66f4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/11600396173/)
S20131226_4432 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/11600396173/) by DR650NZ (http://www.flickr.com/people/77819625@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/11600186375_9b5f07b569.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/11600186375/)
S20131226_4431 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/11600186375/) by DR650NZ (http://www.flickr.com/people/77819625@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/11600187005_29a6ac0791.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/11600187005/)
S20131226_4409 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/11600187005/) by DR650NZ (http://www.flickr.com/people/77819625@N08/), on Flickr

[ruaphu]

My two cents. I thought the tolerance thingy was a farce, just another money making ploy.

However, I've just ticked over 1400ks for Dec so far on the bike (another 3hundy today). Been all over the Naki, Palmy, hunterville, vinegar hill etc and places in between. In my view this speed tolerance thingy has made things more laid back with the tin top crowd. Interestingly I'm getting less tailgating behind the bike too??

Not that I'm speed focused but one to keep things ticking along constant, I've found overtaking is even more of a breeze with the tin tops reluctance to head above that magic 104 mark, simply a quick flick of the throttle, done and, all at lower speeds too.

Those R'ses in tin tops that used to hunt from 90 in the bends to 115kmh in the straights are now nailed down, just makes my ride easier and dare I say it, safer. So far so good, my travel times haven't changed nor has my fuel usage, just easier and more enjoyable to travel about.

Had the pleasure of watching four bikes in front of me weave past traffic today, looked great, no one doing stupid speeds or moves, just good ole leap frogging along the queue.

Based on my travels and experiences so far this month I have to be honest, I've changed my viewpoint, the tolerance thingy was a good move.
Cheers Ando

[swbarnett]

Based on my travels and experiences so far this month I have to be honest, I've changed my viewpoint, the tolerance thingy was a good move.
You need to ride in Auckland for a while. Today I was out in the car from Tuakau to Auckalnd CBD on the motorway. Average traffic speed was about 80. Even had a few doing 60 and causing blockages. Trying to get anywhere near 100 was impossible in a lot of places. Now. I wouldn't have minded so much if this slow traffic actually kept left. As it was it was spread across all lanes when it would've easily fit in the left lane alone. I've made better progress on the motorway with twice as much traffic.

[ruaphu]

You need to ride in Auckland for a while. Today I was out in the car from Tuakau to Auckalnd CBD on the motorway. Average traffic speed was about 80. Even had a few doing 60 and causing blockages. Trying to get anywhere near 100 was impossible in a lot of places. Now. I wouldn't have minded so much if this slow traffic actually kept left. As it was it was spread across all lanes when it would've easily fit in the left lane alone. I've made better progress on the motorway with twice as much traffic.

Yep too true, not my thing on many levels, Auckland. Mind you the Auckland traffic is usually not where the tin top fools keep throwing themselves off the roads eh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[swbarnett]

Yep too true, not my thing on many levels, Auckland.
I was born there but even I will admit it's nice not to live there anymore. I would shift my job out of there as well if I could (I've found myself in a fairly unique position where I get to do what gives me a buzz most of the time with a boss that understands me).


Mind you the Auckland traffic is usually not where the tin top fools keep throwing themselves off the roads eh.
Very true. Maybe that's why I seldom see a cop on my motorway commute. That and the fact that it's not very lucrative; it's pretty hard to speed through the quagmire.

[pzkpfw]

Geez.

Went to Palmie (North) and back (to Tawa) yesterday, soooo many people doing 80 or 90 in 100 k areas, in good enough conditions, slowing down to 70 for corners any vehicle other than a double decker bus with fat Nuns all sitting on the top deck can take at 100.

Had a guy doing 80-90 in the 100 k area heading North into Pukerua bay. Then he did 60 in the 50 zone through the town (pretty clear, as the car in front of me and I, did about 50; so the guy previously holding us up went off ahead). Then he did about 70-80 all through the 80 k sea-side bit. (That part of the road used to have a 100 limit, now has cheese graters and the one passing lane removed; so I don't believe 80 is needed as a limit there). Through Christian Cullen town again about 5-10 k below each posted limit. Finally get to the passing lane before Paraparaumu - I pull out to pass, giving it a little squirt to get it over with (and not wanting to risk him being one of those who speeds up on a passing lane) - and then see the camera van parked at the start of the passing lanes*.

Oh FFS. Yes, the day before there'd been a single-vehicle accident with tragic consequences, down the end of that passing lane area ... but come on! I think the road planners (etc) are missing the huge effect plain human frustration has on drivers, riders, and the road toll. They should be adding more and more passing lanes, until the whole damn SH1 is two lane each way. Then, people who want to do about 100 can just safely cruise past the people who want to do about 90 - knowing they don't have to squeeze in a pass in one of the few opportunities. Lower the frustration, lower the "risk taking". (Like, gee, doing say, 104 k to pass a guy on a two-lane one-way bit of road with armco between those lanes and the opposing traffic, in reasonable weather in good light is so damn "risky").

Instead, they put yellow lines everywhere, and keep closing down passing lanes. So if some arse is frustrating (has frustrated) you, you get "tempted" ...

And the smug self righteous self appointed defenders of public safety smirk and say trite things like "relax, better late than dead". Grrr.

(* yes; with plate on the back, maybe didn't "get" me, I'm commenting (whining) on the position, not the personal effect.)

Whine /rant over.

[caspernz]

Geez.

Went to Palmie (North) and back (to Tawa) yesterday, soooo many people doing 80 or 90 in 100 k areas, in good enough conditions, slowing down to 70 for corners any vehicle other than a double decker bus with fat Nuns all sitting on the top deck can take at 100.

Had a guy doing 80-90 in the 100 k area heading North into Pukerua bay. Then he did 60 in the 50 zone through the town (pretty clear, as the car in front of me and I, did about 50; so the guy previously holding us up went off ahead). Then he did about 70-80 all through the 80 k sea-side bit. (That part of the road used to have a 100 limit, now has cheese graters and the one passing lane removed; so I don't believe 80 is needed as a limit there). Through Christian Cullen town again about 5-10 k below each posted limit. Finally get to the passing lane before Paraparaumu - I pull out to pass, giving it a little squirt to get it over with (and not wanting to risk him being one of those who speeds up on a passing lane) - and then see the camera van parked at the start of the passing lanes*.

Oh FFS. Yes, the day before there'd been a single-vehicle accident with tragic consequences, down the end of that passing lane area ... but come on! I think the road planners (etc) are missing the huge effect plain human frustration has on drivers, riders, and the road toll. They should be adding more and more passing lanes, until the whole damn SH1 is two lane each way. Then, people who want to do about 100 can just safely cruise past the people who want to do about 90 - knowing they don't have to squeeze in a pass in one of the few opportunities. Lower the frustration, lower the "risk taking". (Like, gee, doing say, 104 k to pass a guy on a two-lane one-way bit of road with armco between those lanes and the opposing traffic, in reasonable weather in good light is so damn "risky").

Instead, they put yellow lines everywhere, and keep closing down passing lanes. So if some arse is frustrating (has frustrated) you, you get "tempted" ...

And the smug self righteous self appointed defenders of public safety smirk and say trite things like "relax, better late than dead". Grrr.

(* yes; with plate on the back, maybe didn't "get" me, I'm commenting (whining) on the position, not the personal effect.)

Whine /rant over.

Yup, no surprises there. After a few million clicks of personal observation, the camera van seems to always be on the downhill run and when you really would like to see a cop nab a numbty driver...there's never one around.

Oh well, load iPod with chillax music and cruise on...:devil2:

Later in day see cop with numbty driver on side of the road...two little toots of the airhorn...the cop invariably smiles :clap:

[roogazza]

So, the speed tolerance at 4 kph is really working !
We have had what, 5 or 6 deaths so far this xmas period !!!
I guess we would've had double that if we hadn't been creeping round at 90 kph on the open road !!! :yawn:

[chasio]

So, the speed tolerance at 4 kph is really working !
We have had what, 5 or 6 deaths so far this xmas period !!!
I guess we would've had double that if we hadn't been creeping round at 90 kph on the open road !!! :yawn:

The biker on SH1 near Bulls makes 6 in the official Christmas period so far (acc. to The Harold), but that excludes several earlier in December, IIRC.

Doubtless the data will be disregarded if it doesn't fit the official belief system.

[Edbear]

Got back from Kerikeri yesterday aft. Far North traffic as incompetent as anywhere. Locals are never in a hurry to get anywhere and travel 20 to 30km/h under the limit. Regardless what that limit is. .. Tourists the same but because they are either lost, looking at the scenery, and/or completely incompetent to drive. Usually all three.

High speeds? What a joke! Don't head up North expecting to get anywhere near the speed limit most of the time. The real concern was the number of drivers who haven't a clue how to turn a corner or even negotiate a slight bend in the road. One Falcon ute driver could do right hand corners but braked for left hand corners! I was quite happy to cruise just under the limit, but even that was a bit too much to ask most of the time. Naturally, you had the usual suspects who speed up on passing lanes, but one young lady had to slow down from 80km/h to 60km/h as she approached it.

There were marked cars everywhere but few drivers being pulled over. We did reminisce about having the bike and watched enviously as the bikes cruised past. They weren't in a hurry either but even with most of them doing less than 120 and probably no more than 110, they were going to get where they were going a lot quicker than we were.

[Madness]

Got back from Kerikeri yesterday aft. Far North traffic as incompetent as anywhere. Locals are never in a hurry to get anywhere and travel 20 to 30km/h under the limit. Regardless what that limit is. .. Tourists the same but because they are either lost, looking at the scenery, and/or completely incompetent to drive. Usually all three.

High speeds? What a joke! Don't head up North expecting to get anywhere near the speed limit most of the time. The real concern was the number of drivers who haven't a clue how to turn a corner or even negotiate a slight bend in the road. One Falcon ute driver could do right hand corners but braked for left hand corners! I was quite happy to cruise just under the limit, but even that was a bit too much to ask most of the time. Naturally, you had the usual suspects who speed up on passing lanes, but one young lady had to slow down from 80km/h to 60km/h as she approached it.

There were marked cars everywhere but few drivers being pulled over. We did reminisce about having the bike and watched enviously as the bikes cruised past. They weren't in a hurry either but even with most of them doing less than 120 and probably no more than 110, they were going to get where they were going a lot quicker than we were.

You should get a motorcycle. Oh, that's right...

[Edbear]

You should get a motorcycle. Oh, that's right...

There's still time. .. :niceone:

[Jantar]

Just now on the radio news was mention of the fact the this year's holiday toll is already the same as for the entire holiday period last year. The ad that imediately followed the news was the police ad about strictly enforcing speed limits "because when speed is reduced there are fewer accidents". The irony was too good to miss.

[roogazza]

Just now on the radio news was mention of the fact the this year's holiday toll is already the same as for the entire holiday period last year. The ad that imediately followed the news was the police ad about strictly enforcing speed limits "because when speed is reduced there are fewer accidents". The irony was too good to miss.

and they feel a lot better telling the story of the lowest toll since about 1952 for the year. Which is great by the way.
It's just that the 4 kph thing is buried to the back of the 'News folder'.

So anyway, it looks like they have proved themselves wrong. :lol::lol:

[cleverchap]

Very true. Maybe that's why I seldom see a cop on my motorway commute. That and the fact that it's not very lucrative; it's pretty hard to speed through the quagmire.

So why aren't the cops ticketing people for failure to keep left??? That would be massively lucrative and free up space on the roads for people to travel at an appropriate speed.

[Scuba_Steve]

So anyway, it looks like they have proved themselves wrong. :lol::lol:

Just wait for the PIG PR team to startup their BS machine, I'm sure they'll come up for some fantastic excuse as to why it didn't work but we need it full time anyhows; I'm expecting them to blame it on the wet weather & high traffic.

[Dave-]

Just now on the radio news was mention of the fact the this year's holiday toll is already the same as for the entire holiday period last year. The ad that imediately followed the news was the police ad about strictly enforcing speed limits "because when speed is reduced there are fewer accidents". The irony was too good to miss.


Wow


Much generalisation.

Such Stupidity.


No Statistics
Learn to math



Correlation != Causation

[Ocean1]

Wow


Much generalisation.

Such Stupidity.


No Statistics
Learn to math



Correlation != Causation

Think it was a sort of logic judo sarcasm.

As per the original official rationale.



Probably.

[jellywrestler]

That part of the road used to have a 100 limit, now has cheese graters and the one passing lane removed; so I don't believe 80 is needed as a limit there

there was a crash there one friday and four died, the next days headlines were speed reduced to 80 along there by officials. did they bother to go out and watch traffic for an hour and see what its really like? did they bother to put up two second rule signs, they made their desicion from a desk many kms away.
few times traffic would go even 80 along there anyway

[Kickaha]

So why aren't the cops ticketing people for failure to keep left??? .
How do you know that they don't?

[scumdog]

Just wait for the PIG PR team to startup their BS machine, I'm sure they'll come up for some fantastic excuse as to why it didn't work but we need it full time anyhows; I'm expecting them to blame it on the wet weather & high traffic.

I blame incompetent and careless piss-poor driving. (OK, with the odd 'medical event' crash)

But that's just my 2-cents worth on some forum...

[scumdog]

So why aren't the cops ticketing people for failure to keep left??? That would be massively lucrative and free up space on the roads for people to travel at an appropriate speed.

They don't????:blink:

[oneofsix]

I blame incompetent and careless piss-poor driving. (OK, with the odd 'medical event' crash)

But that's just my 2-cents worth on some forum...

You can blame whom ever you like but the 4k tolerance thing was still the abysmal failure we said it would be.

[Scuba_Steve]

I blame incompetent and careless piss-poor driving. (OK, with the odd 'medical event' crash)

But that's just my 2-cents worth on some forum...

Think thats the least troll'y thing I've seen from you & accurate to boot
Now if we could just get your gang to start focusing on that instead of running NZ's biggest scam & NZTA to stop giving licences to anyone with money over a certain age & instead start making the ability to drive a non-optional requirement we'd be golden; The latter would have the biggest impact to road safety


They don't????:blink:

I'll let you know when I see one who does

[TimeOut]

They don't????:blink:

Followed two cops into town 60-80k on the open road, not at all worried about the twit in front holding up at least 20 cars, this went on for about 20km.

They were still pinging the real dangerous ones coming the other way that may have been over 100kmph

[scumdog]

Followed two cops into town 60-80k on the open road, not at all worried about the twit in front holding up at least 20 cars, this went on for about 20km.

They were still pinging the real dangerous ones coming the other way that may have been over 100kmph

Following 20 cars at 60-80kph AND pinging cars going the other way for about 20km???:shit:

And you did WHAT about this??? - apart from posting here?

[Ocean1]

I'm interested in the accident rate at which you decide the speed's OK.

One every 10,000k? One every 100,00k?

'Cause if you don't have an objective then you don't have a reason to restrict speed at all.

So what is it?

No answer, came the stern reply.

At least NZTA has the sense to know they have to know what they're aiming for.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9567933/Hi-tech-tactics-to-fight-road-toll

"NZTA road safety director Ernst Zollner said <snip>NZTA aspired to have nobody killed or injured on the roads and aimed to stop crashes happening"

If they only had enough sense to recognise that it's a pointless and statistically unachievable objective, (a feature it has in common with the equally asinine OSH group of idiocies), and to admit that the cost of attempting to achieve it will continue to unnecessarily interfere with NZ motorists going about their business.

[oneofsix]

to admit that the cost of attempting to achieve it will continue to unnecessarily interfere with NZ motorists going about their business.

This has been the whole problem with the failed 4k tolerance exercise. I really expected it to achieve better than it has just through people paying more attention to their driving or staying off the roads but instead it seems to have only reinforced the selfrightous idiots. Mixing with the intolerant (no pun on the we wont tolerate speeding :innocent:) and tired (taking too long to get anywhere, getting bored through travelling too slow for the conditions) and you discover exceeding the speed limit isn't the problem the :Police: and NZTA would try to convince us it is.

[swbarnett]

"NZTA road safety director Ernst Zollner said <snip>NZTA aspired to have nobody killed or injured on the roads and aimed to stop crashes happening"
That statement alone disqualifies them for the job. They obviously have no grip whatsoever on reality.


... the cost of attempting to achieve it will continue to unnecessarily interfere with NZ motorists going about their business.
Not to mention that it (along with the reast of the asinine safety crap) will cause more death and suffering than it prevents due to the economic collapse that will inevitably follow.


There are two undeniable facts about life that put the lie to all this safety crap:

1. Noone has the right to save an individual from themselves. Even God (if that's the way you lean) refuses to do this when he endows man with free will.

2. Suffering is a part of life. Without it there is no life.

[Ocean1]

This has been the whole problem with the failed 4k tolerance exercise....

I was more concerned that someone in charge of significant lumps of taxpayer's money should be so obviously lacking in the required qualifications for his job as to propose a zero accident target.

It's as bad as failing to admit that there is in fact a compromise to be made between safety and transport efficiency at all.

And yet those two responses are all we've got from our transport authorities.

It might not be politically expedient to put any actual numbers on that compromise, but at least admit it represents the real world rather than attempt to retreat into fairyland.

Then at least we can have that discussion surrounding what point on the cost/benefit graph is socially acceptable by a majority.

[tri boy]

Id like to hear from po pos on here regarding the new colour scheme on their patrol/highway cars.
I have a theory on the burnt orange ones.
They (the powers that be) chose the orange for camouflage. On the road they are as hard to notice as a grey car on seal. Unless running lights are used, but I havn't seen any using them.
Parked up, with dry grass in front/behind, they are damn hard to see.

That sort of blows the theory of "be seen" out of the water.
I also think there will be more accidents involving this coloured car than there old types.MHO

[Dave-]

Id like to hear from po pos on here regarding the new colour scheme on their patrol/highway cars.
I have a theory on the burnt orange ones.
They (the powers that be) chose the orange for camouflage. On the road they are as hard to notice as a grey car on seal. Unless running lights are used, but I havn't seen any using them.
Parked up, with dry grass in front/behind, they are damn hard to see.

That sort of blows the theory of "be seen" out of the water.
I also think there will be more accidents involving this coloured car than there old types.MHO

How does it feel to learn via kiwibiker, from me, right now, that you need to have your eyes checked?

[Gremlin]

I've done Auckland - Wanganui - Raglan for Boxing Day on the BMW, one cop I think near Ngaruawahia southbound, then a couple hunting (and very slow on the gun) on SH3 coming north (we did SH43 and backroads until north of Taumarunui northbound), driving was pretty normal stuff.

29th from Raglan to Rotorua in the ute and back again on the 31st. To Rotorua only one idiot doing 60-70 on the open road and other than that, no craziness I saw, and even very few cops as well. Traffic was quiet too, so pretty good.

Need to go back to Auckland on 4th, suspect that will be a little different...

[Scuba_Steve]

I was more concerned that someone in charge of significant lumps of taxpayer's money should be so obviously lacking in the required qualifications for his job

I let you know when I see someone in charge of significant taxpayers money who is actually qualified for the position they hold... you got awhile right?

[Swoop]

Thing is, driving is habitual. If we let people cut the open corners enough times, what they learn subconsciously is that it's okay to cut corners. Until one day they make a human error, and cut a corner when it's not a good idea.

Anyone who stays on the correct side of the road is at less risk of a head on than someone who strays from habit.

Please don't think that everyone who uses the roads make well evaluated, well informed decisions every time they do something.
Please STOP posting sensible shit. KB needs to be fed the normal diet.

I blame incompetent and careless piss-poor driving.
That's what the "driver training" system is all about (if you didn't actually pay "Mr X" for your licence in a nice bribery-contra-deal sort of way instead ((Auckland driving skills?)) ).

[Akzle]

That's what the "driver training" system is all about (if you didn't actually pay "Mr X" for your licence in a nice bribery-contra-deal sort of way instead ((Auckland driving skills?)) ).

sorry. remind me again which four jews own the driver licensing scam in NZ...?
(hint, look up NZ driver licensing 1998 ltd)

[oneofsix]

I was more concerned that someone in charge of significant lumps of taxpayer's money should be so obviously lacking in the required qualifications for his job as to propose a zero accident target.


You are rather late in waking up to that little factoid.

[Swoop]

sorry. remind me again which four jews own the driver licensing scam in NZ...?
(hint, look up NZ driver licensing 1998 ltd)
Hmm. I was thinking of the Indians that were providing licencing "services" in west Auckland. Didn't know they were jewish Indians.

[Angel_of_Metal]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11180340

Once again showing that the average NZ Herald reader is fucking clueless and shouldn't be allowed on the roads. The very fact that people are unwilling to do or exceed the 100kph limit in the fast lane demonstrates that they have no idea why motorway fast lanes exist in the first place :brick:

I really shouldn't be surprised if this 'trial' becomes regular practice. Maybe I'll just up and move to a less transport-fucktarded country:angry: