Wellington city speed limit reducing to 30kmh?

[rustyrobot]

A proposal to lower the speed limit in Wellington's central city to 30km/h is open for public comment from Tuesday 04 February. Closing date is 09 March.

http://wellington.govt.nz/have-your-say/public-input/public-inputs/consultations/open/central-city-safer-speed-limit

I don't know, perhaps I'm being a bit pessimistic. It sucks that people die on the roads, especially when it's kids. It's true that we have poorly designed roading that doesn't encourage good sharing from pedestrians, cyclists and motorists. But with the continuing reduction in speed around schools and suburban areas, and the trialled reduction in the speed tolerance it all feels like we're winding back the clock a bit. How long until we get back to....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CHG2GRbeET8/TGVol58gBqI/AAAAAAAAQEU/LQpkpVMI_WE/s400/red_flag_act_1878.jpg

Under the UK's Locomotive Act 1865, anyone driving a car in town had to be led by a man who walked in front of the car, carrying a red flag -- to prevent 'fatal accidents'.

(This was when top speed was 32 km/h).

More on the proposed reduction here:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1402/S00018/cbd-speed-limit-consultation-starts-tomorrow.htm

[Robbo]

Might not be a bad idea in the CBD, but having said that, what are the statistics on vehicles vs pedestrians in the last twelve months that would justify this suggestion?

[Scuba_Steve]

Because Wellington streets weren't bad enough, now everyone should stare at speedos (not the togs) rather than the road.
Pedestrians not watching the vehicles & drivers not watching the road... yep this is gonna end well :rolleyes:

[SMOKEU]

A proposal to lower the speed limit in Wellington's central city to 30km/h is open for public comment from Tuesday 04 February.


I don't see the point, as if Wellingon drivers are anything like Christchurch drivers, 30kmh actually means 40-50kmh. I've seen very few drivers who actually travel any slower unless the road is majorly fucked.

[rustyrobot]

Don't worry, you get to play too SMOKEU:
"In Christchurch, the city centre will have a safer speed limit and Auckland is planning the same for new suburbs."

I know it's selfish and a first world problem and all that, but my bike really doesn't like going at 30km/h. Still - if we could show almost zero motorbike vs pedestrian fatalities in Wellington CBD we'd all get an exemption right? :rolleyes:

[Scuba_Steve]

I don't see the point, as if Wellingon drivers are anything like Christchurch drivers, 30kmh actually means 40-50kmh. I've seen very few drivers who actually travel any slower unless the road is majorly fucked.

Na well there's the worst part, CBD most drivers are doing little more than 30km/h anyways most times of the day; This will do nothing but make the roads more dangerous.

Best thing they could do to the CBD is remove speed limits & make it a "shared zone"... But then that would be something towards road safety & there's no money in road safety

[pzkpfw]

Adults walking/jogging in front of buses. (Busses?).

The speed of the bus isn't the problem.


(No idea about the stats for people vs. car; but people vs. bus seems to get all the press.)


Darwin FTW.

[Rhys]

If pedestrians could keep to foot paths and designated crossings it would go along way to eliminating the accidents
I have had people walk into my truck when it has been parked !

[jellywrestler]

when is the last time a child has been knocked over in the streets? they're taught, they listen and they behave, the idiots that are being knocked over are the adults who should know better.

[Gremlin]

Can we prevent people from using their mobiles while walking? I swear, people pay no attention to where they are walking etc...

[James Deuce]

It's true that we have poorly designed roading that doesn't encourage good sharing from pedestrians, cyclists and motorists.


No we don't. We have stupid, discourteous fuckheads who think that they're more important than anyone else. Especially when they're talking on a phone or listening to their iPod. Kiwis a re the world's worst jaywalkers. We need beat cops who will cuff and arrest jaywalkers and shoot people resisting arrest for jaywalking like they did in the '90s in New York.

If you aren't intelligent enough to use the resources that are made available to you for the purpose of commerce, recreation, and travel, then get the big roll of bubblewrap and stay the fuck home.

Being kind to other people INCLUDES not stepping out in front of a bus driver because you're inattentive and leaving that driver with the guilt of an unavoidable death.

[Ocean1]

Meh.

Like I need another reason to stay away.

[Akzle]

fuck it. I might kill everyone. Jews first. At some point natural deaths > akz inflicted deaths and we will have reached a sensible population. Those of us left.

[rustyrobot]

No we don't.

Yes we do. :argue:

I'll never know why someone thought it was a good idea to pit left turning traffic against pedestrians, and cycle lanes are laughable (where they exist at all). I'm not denying there's some stupid pedestrians out there (also stupid cyclists, stupid car drivers, stupid bus drivers and stupid motorcyclists), but some of this stupidity could be countered by keeping these people further separated.

[imdying]

I don't see the point, as if Wellingon drivers are anything like Christchurch drivers, 30kmh actually means 40-50kmh. I've seen very few drivers who actually travel any slower unless the road is majorly fucked.I think Chch drivers have reached saturation level, and you eventually get sick of driving past yet another unattended roadworks, with cones for no reason.

CBD Wellington pedestrians die because they're fuckwits who get what they deserve. Their bus drivers shouldn't even be required to stop if the person they run over is on a cell phone.

[Swoop]

Pedestrians:

Normally looking at their iDiot phone or with earphones blocking their hearing. They wonder why they walk into things FFS.

Primary school kids used to be taught about road sense and how to cross safely. With more and more introduction of technology into schools (article about a primary school with ipads, in todays Harold) we are going to see more "connected" citizens being "disconnected" from their device by a vehicle's front bumper.

Darwin is going to have some good times ahead!

[DMNTD]

I think Chch drivers have reached saturation level, and you eventually get sick of driving past yet another unattended roadworks, with cones for no reason...
Yerp I've noticed that already down here. I'm sure that there is some logic behind it all but ffs it just appears that nothing is being done

[EJK]

Yerp I've noticed that already down here. I'm sure that there is some logic behind it all but ffs it just appears that nothing is being done

Don't you guys know? Those are free cones to take home!!!

[Ocean1]

I think Chch drivers have reached saturation level, and you eventually get sick of driving past yet another unattended roadworks, with cones for no reason.

Risk compensation. If you scream wolf too often people ignore you.

Some European city's have reduced their traffic fatalities dramatically by removing all of the rules.

http://knowledge.allianz.com/mobility/transportation_safety/?1841/risker-streets-reduce-accidents

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/09/11/cbs-finds-less-govt-regulation-means-fewer-traffic-accidents-dutch-to

http://www.dw.de/european-towns-remove-traffic-signs-to-make-streets-safer/a-2143663-1

"Changes included the installation of a children's playground in the middle of one of the roads to force drivers to slow down." :laugh::laugh:


http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/controlled-chaos-european-cities-do-away-with-traffic-signs-a-448747.html

Most "experts" say it's counterintuitive, but that sounds like an excuse to me, if they knew their business they'd have a handle on basic anthropology.

Whatever, it works, it's repeatable, it applies to more than just road rules. Do it.

[roogazza]

We'll be setting up lazers/radars for speeding pedestrians next !
We are led by fuckwits trying to save us from ourselves.
I'm moving,going rural,fuck'em all.

Had a good ride Sunday tho,only had to hit the picks once, for a
'Judge Dredd', all morning. :shifty:

[James Deuce]

Yes we do. :argue:



No we don't. Our roads are outstanding when the population base (aka tax base) is taken into account, vs. the sheer kilometerage of roading infrastructure available in NZ.

The issue is how people use them. We don't need separation. We need to reintroduce the concept of the courteous road user back into the equation. People need to take responsibility for not only their skill and capacity to deal with ever-changing conditons from traffic density to weather, they also, and most importantly, need to take responsibility for the behaviour. We do not need more money hurled at road design, we just need road users to give a shit about other people. People. Not the iron box or iron horse the are riding in or on respectively.

[Akzle]

No we don't. Our roads are outstanding when the population base (aka tax base) is taken into account, vs. the sheer kilometerage of roading infrastructure available in NZ.

The issue is how people use them. We don't need separation. We need to reintroduce the concept of the courteous road user back into the equation. People need to take responsibility for not only their skill and capacity to deal with ever-changing conditons from traffic density to weather and they also, and most importantly, need to take responsibility for the behaviour. We do not need more money hurled at road design, we just need road users to give a shit about other people. People. Not the in box or iron horse the are riding in or on respectively.

hate to be the one to tell you, but sensible thinking has actually been outlawed by the "politicians make decisions for you Act" of about 1982.

[Taxythingy]

we just need road users to give a shit about other people.

This. Or else we go in the opposite direction:


Normally looking at their iDiot phone or with earphones blocking their hearing. They wonder why they walk into things FFS.

Set up a wiki page titled "Why did I walk into it?". Then they can find out with their phone so as not to do it in future. That'll work. :crazy:

[rustyrobot]

Hang on a second... these 'people' are having accidents and potentially not contributing to the ACC slush fund?

I suggest that EVERY pair of shoes in New Zealand require registration, with an ACC levy and administrative fee forming the bulk of the cost. Rugby boots, soccer boots and business shoes would of course be at a higher rate due to higher chance of accident. Jandals could be de-registered for the winter months.

Just think of the safety that could be gained through fines for non-registration!

[James Deuce]

Now you're getting it! :)

[Robbo]

Hang on a second... these 'people' are having accidents and potentially not contributing to the ACC slush fund?

I suggest that EVERY pair of shoes in New Zealand require registration, with an ACC levy and administrative fee forming the bulk of the cost. Rugby boots, soccer boots and business shoes would of course be at a higher rate due to higher chance of accident. Jandals could be de-registered for the winter months.

Just think of the safety that could be gained through fines for non-registration!

Ha Ha, great idea and then they may just reduce the levies on our bikes.:niceone:

[willytheekid]

Don't you guys know? Those are free cones to take home!!!

REALLY!!:eek:

http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/87/44/75f3e026b63309f5e607665ab1dceae5-traffic-cone-starfish.jpg

awesome!:laugh:

[Clockwork]

But if I have two pairs of shoes...... well I can only wear one pair at a time!:Oi:

[BuzzardNZ]

The fact that a number of main streets in the CBD have changed from one way to both directions doesn't help matters.
Those who have lived here for ages may have forgotten this and been hit by traffic as they walk out without looking in both directions.

I almost got collected for this very reason but luckily just got an angry blast from a pissed off car driver for my stupidity.

[rustyrobot]

But if I have two pairs of shoes...... well I can only wear one pair at a time!:Oi:

Who are you Gareth Morgan? ;)

Don't you know that it's a 'wealth tax'. Only the uber rich have more than one pair of shoes.

[SMOKEU]

No we don't. Our roads are outstanding when the population base (aka tax base) is taken into account, vs. the sheer kilometerage of roading infrastructure available in NZ.

The issue is how people use them. We don't need separation. We need to reintroduce the concept of the courteous road user back into the equation. People need to take responsibility for not only their skill and capacity to deal with ever-changing conditons from traffic density to weather, they also, and most importantly, need to take responsibility for the behaviour. We do not need more money hurled at road design, we just need road users to give a shit about other people. People. Not the iron box or iron horse the are riding in or on respectively.

These days there is no expectation of personal responsibility. Get drunk, run over and kill someone? It's not your fault, it's the easy availability of alcohol. Cross the centre line and wipe out another vehicle? Blame poor road design. Until driver training standards and (correctly targeted) law enforcement are taken seriously, don't expect much to change. The road toll will continue to decrease, but only because of safer vehicles as the older ones become decommissioned.


The fact that a number of main streets in the CBD have changed from one way to both directions doesn't help matters.
Those who have lived here for ages may have forgotten this and been hit by traffic as they walk out without looking in both directions.

I almost got collected for this very reason but luckily just got an angry blast from a pissed off car driver for my stupidity.

That's why you should always look both ways when crossing a one way street. Many times I've seen drivers going the wrong way down one way streets.

[McShanNZ]

That's why you should always look both ways when crossing a one way street. Many times I've seen drivers going the wrong way down one way streets.

I have to agree with SMOKEU on that - both ways... should be a reflex action. Heading home the other night Mazda CX7 decided he'd pull a left out of Pak n' Save - right turn only. Tooted alerting the individual to the potential ramification of said action only to be flipped off and tooted back at, he continued driving toward 3 vehicles across both lanes a short distance behind me...

30km/h enforced in the mighty metropolis of New Plymouth CBD. Not one accident that I'm aware of as a result - I don't recall an accident in the CBD when it was 50km/h either.

[James Deuce]

These days there is no expectation of personal responsibility. Get drunk, run over and kill someone? It's not your fault, it's the easy availability of alcohol. Cross the centre line and wipe out another vehicle? Blame poor road design. Until driver training standards and (correctly targeted) law enforcement are taken seriously, don't expect much to change. The road toll will continue to decrease, but only because of safer vehicles as the older ones become decommissioned.


Ahhh, so because everyone else is being a cunt that makes it OK?

[SMOKEU]

Ahhh, so because everyone else is being a cunt that makes it OK?

No, that certainly does not make it OK. But at the same time, one can't expect other road users to follow the road rules or to drive in an even remotely safe manner. It's really everyone for themself. I treat all other road users as if they're a homicidal maniac high on P who views every "frag" they get as a medal of honour, unless proven otherwise.

[James Deuce]

Be nice, FFS.

[SMOKEU]

Be nice, FFS.

I would be, if only staying alive on the roads wasn't a constant battle for survival from muppets opening car doors without looking, pulling out of intersections into oncoming traffic, driving on the wrong side of the road around blind corners etc.

[Ocean1]

I'm moving,going rural,fuck'em all.

I'll put the billy on.

[Flip]

I like the idea.




Why?


Wellington roads are very narrow and this tells road users who are mostly car drivers to keep the fuck out of the cbd unless they really have to go into the area. Which will mean the basin bypass and other ring roads will be used more and there will be less traffic in town when I go there next. Yes I do own houses in Wellington.