F5 Dave’s F5 bike gets a birthday

[F5 Dave]

Well that’s the plan. Bike has been looking a little shabby of late. It was tickled up shortly after transplanting the RG engine into the RS, but that was like 2006. I’d given the bodywork to a mate & said “Surprise me”. That’s how I’d ended up with Black with a sunburst of blue flame. He used to paint Bruce Anstey’s TZs & they got black & stickered & often crazy wheel coloured.

Anyways, after my ignominious defeat at the last GP I decided it needed a bit of a birthday. The seat unit fibreglass was a bit torn & flappy since Katie threw it up the hill at Kaitoke, so that was the first thing to get fixed.

It has held up well & was on the previous RG, heck I bought it off Regan (GPR lad) back, er probably late 90s/2000 earliest and it was a lightweight number.

It was a bit mullered by now so I ground away at the back & matted & epoxy resined it. It’s a bit heavier than traditional poly resin but its far less smelly, petrol resistant, and far more importantly, I still had some left.

Ohh doesn’t it look pretty?


- No actually it looks dreadful, but it’s a basis for giving a sand & slamming on some paint, which the same mate from above dropped around for free. He can’t paint it these days so I’ve chosen Enamel which is petrol durable & not super toxic + a muppet can put it on which leaves me mostly qualified.

I had hoped to get it sorted at Easter, but some other little projects on the bike have popped up so we’ll see.


The question is: Will I have it ready for Kaitoke? (27th Ap)

[F5 Dave]

but wait, what's this?

[F5 Dave]

Well I've taken the plunge to fit a Derbi GPR50 engine. I don't think this strictly makes me a team GPR member, but I think they have to pay me royalties now, which will help as I'm on a shoestring these days.

I've done about 6 engine transplants over the years so I'm getting quite experienced. I'd like to hope that meant I was getting good at it. But sadly it doesn't & I'm still making a bit of a pigs ear of it. Having one fixed point to reference off is bloody useful. Sadly I'd cut the rear ones off & rewelded them to fit the RG engine. DaveDip used the std rear ones & made a cradle for the front.

So I had to make a cradle for the front & then weld on some new mounts. I am hoping to be able to fit the RG engine back in if need be, but it turns out that I will need to carve a section off the back of the engine & weld it shut to do so. I have to pay for my all welding. I can do steel, but only pretty badly.

One should always make a jig to hold the mounts still while they are welded. I used the engine to line up where the mounts would be and filed some interface points & ran a bolt through to keep them in line. I didn't want the engine next to the welding as it gets jolly hot. Anyway this was a mistake as one side hard up against the frame/ ground mount stayed pretty much ok but the other which needed some filling to join the space to the frame rotated back and around. Bugger. so a weekend of elongating the holes so it all lines up again & fill the back of the holes.

Next time I'd spend the effort to make a jig to replicate the engine or just use the engine, but when you take the engine out which you have to to do more than just tack it can still move so a jig is better, just harder to make & you need to have raw material.


I've actually had this engine for about 9 years & slowly done it up. I would have done things differently now so I'm not totally happy with the spec but we'll see how it goes. My RG engine is last over & the barrel is oval so something needed to be done & I have this engine.

So to get it to Kaitoke weekend after Easter I need to refit the holes. Last night I checked the compression ratio as I'd forgotten whether I'd done it & there were no notes. I also fitted the stator as last stage of a few days tinkering. Then I need to wire up the ignition, & fit things like gear linkages, rad pipes etc. Biggest concern is the pipe which in a dry run hit the sump plug. This could be a show stopper for a short term get to the track fix.

[Pumba]

Hmmm, while reading this am I starting to get a deja vu feeling with this thread.

:bleh:

[koba]

Choice!
I may end up copying both of your steeds...

[chrisc]

I spent about 3 hours the other night researching these engines, barrels, etc. I'm interested...

Here's a photo from the 2014 GP at Tokoroa as an example of said bike "looking a little shabby of late." Although I'd argue it looks like a lot of fun!

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7386/13122212665_1dd152a53f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/kZyLDX)

_MG_3525 (https://flic.kr/p/kZyLDX) by sonscc (https://www.flickr.com/people/120242274@N04/), on Flickr

Rest of the album is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sonscc/sets/72157642282552865/

[F5 Dave]

Thanks man great photo. My leathers match the bike, . . .and the budget.[edit] look at the miss matching gloves:weep:

Weldy guy fixed up the holes better than I expected & fitted the bolt back in saving me hours of filing.

Easter will give me some time to work on it. Well it better, It'll only leave me a week till the next race. Have to make sure pipe & everything else fits, then need to shag around fitting the flywheel in the correct place.

[F5 Dave]

Engine fits. Needs a tickle to make it fit nicely. Pipe is close. Won't hit plug which is nice, but one hits sw arm. A bit of a bend seems to almost sort it. Think I can make it work. Just need some time. Think the loom and ign timing will be the key things.

[F5 Dave]

Ok well engine in bike. Radiator hoses sorted. Chain & sprocket sorted for position. Gear linkage remade to suit. Pipe & mount fitted. I had to bevel the back of the muffler to avoid hitting the swing-arm but that was an easy change that means it still fits if I refit the RG engine.

Still to do:
Clutch cable
Ignitec loom
Find stator timing position
Start, program a flat curve to start with & tune jets, best fit for a safe run

And probably a few things I haven’t thought of yet. It'll be tight considering how long it took to find the stator position on the 100 with an undefined stator position, that can burn up a bit of time, remeasuring, restarting the bike. I have found that the timing goes off the trailing edge of the rotor which will help considerably.

What I'm not happy about is with the taper adapter it doesn't bite onto the taper with enough agression so that you can do the nut up without it turning. Once I find the key position the woodruff will hold it still to enable it to be done up & deform to grab, but I may try match with some valve grinding paste to see if I can get that push on/grab lest adjustment will be a wind-up.

[kel]

Looking good!
When you have a few spare dollars I can hook you up with a guy that can knock you up a custom cylinder and head good for 18hp, what's more it has a whopping 3.5k power spread.
OR
you could buy one of those off the shelf, bolt it up Bidalot cylinder kits for just a couple of hundred

[F5 Dave]

Nice troll.

This Octopus is the Loom almost finished based on my 100 one but with only 1/2 the tricky stuff connected. The loop at the side is all the wires I won't be using but will retain for later development if I feel like it.

Just has the pulsar coil feed, stator to charging cct, rec reg which I'll be pinching off the 100 for now as I have a 5 wire scooter reg but have to confirm which wires are what & its extra wire I think is lighting, the coil output, the wire to the on switch & the power feed back to everything else, then I've added the PJ connector for future, TPS wires, the shift light which I'll hook up now, & quick shifter, but I doubt I'll have made a bracket in time. Get it going first huh?

[F5 Dave]

Eeet Leeives:shit:


traditional push it to top of driveway, let out clutch and it fires straight away. clutch needs to free itself a bit, but its been sitting a decade. water seems to be circulating. Charging system working. timing where I marked it. Setting up the ignitech was a whole heap easier the 2nd time.

Sounds a bit flat & rich at the bottom, but I'll do a dyno trip & sort where we are at. . .erm maybe tonight?

I'm not saying its ready to race, but

Eet Liveeess:woohoo:

[TZ350]

Good work .... :eek:

[F5 Dave]

Well good work if it performs well, but it's a good first step.

[Henk]

Will it be ready for the GP?

[F5 Dave]

It's Sunday that's the main concern. Ok it's race able, but I've found out the gear lever goes the opposite way so I'll have to try make a diagonal linkage or I'll get all confused.


but not a total success so far. Ok not 8hp or anything, but I'd hoped on an improvement on the RG. It's not. DaveD just spaced up the barrel, put an aftermarket pipe on, machined the head and got 14hp out of his wi a better spread than his old TZR.

mine was a direct transfer of everything I'd learnt on the RG ten years ago. Same pipe, same carb, head shape cut to same template with same compression ratio to same point, same port timing.

Advantage of full case reed induction over proxy suzuki 1/2 1/2 arrangement. Modern well shaped transfers. A proper boost port rather than the fed from the 2ndries RG type. Nikasil liner and triple ex port. Plus an Ignitech. It's just got to be betterer.

after throwing a bunch of jets and timing options I'm still 1/2 a hp down on the RG at its best but with no over rev which is where the RG was weak anyway. As I review, it's spookily close to the last run on the RG before I put in a new ring.

Bah.

[jasonu]

Will it be ready for the GP?

Depends which GP you are referring to...:rolleyes:

[F5 Dave]

Well a pretty average start. Gear change is a bit naff but kept working. Bike ran pretty uninspiringly and wouldn't rev nicely. Felt flat and sad, as did I. After first race, pretty much back of A grade bar one.

But I recognised the sound. - - Reed flutter.

So I put in the spare carbon ones I had and lo and behold we have a race bike. Probably no better than the RG at this stage but seems on par which is an improvement.


ended up having a great day and some beers with some mates after, that's what makes racing great.

[F5 Dave]

Golly its almost been a year. Drained gear oil & only 200ml or so came out. Opps case split time.
Finally might try do some development on it.

[speedpro]

You know what happened last time you "developed" something?

That's quite a loaded question when you think about it.

[F5 Dave]

The MB hasn't really had any development on it either, just trying to re-engineer it for [cough] reliability.

[F5 Dave]

Well maybe OK. I took the sidecover off and 300 ml came out so a bit over 500 total plus whatever still stuck in there from 650ml. I'll fill it and check it after the gp.

Disabled the balancer shaft for experiment.

On the other side I pulled the barrel and confronted what I'd done ten years ago. A litany of mistakes. Worst is the exhaust port that has a low floor and doesn't reduce to 75%. Due to low floor not sure how I'd get an insert to fix it. Also the subs are Std tiny but the main raised 4mm. I guess I was so impressed by having subs std. Silly plating means can't change anything without plating.

Even left the worst dingleberrys in the transfers. Cleaning those out. Head could be better. New piston (put an old one in to run in and never changed it). Ring worn only 0.2 compared with new one going in.

Playing around with new inlets to remove kink but not finding the right part. Too big and too small for the carb are catered for.

[speedpro]

Disabled the balancer shaft for experiment.

You'll be sorry

[F5 Dave]

Well Dave Dip doesn't run one on his 50, but does on the 80. He's had them fail before too. Kaitoki this weekend. If it vibrates I'll throw the gear back on. . . hopefully in the right position.

[koba]

Kaitoki this weekend.

:woohoo::woohoo:

[F5 Dave]

Well it started right up. Sounds different. Not sure if its the lack of balancer or the Wob reed mod I've done.

[koba]

:wings::wings::wings:

[F5 Dave]

Oh yeah. The balancer. Forgot about that, guess it doesn't need one. Had to run it in. Felt a bit flat so took it easy. Few races in it felt like it loosened up nicely. Still get dragged by Kyle's FXR. More power required.

[F5 Dave]

Just over a week to the GP. Trying to get the other carb on for a trial. So far I've used the drill, the hacksaw (extensively), the lathe making fittings and on the carb itself, the welder and epoxy. And I'm not done with the cable mounting or new cable. This better be better.

[quallman1234]

Oh yeah. The balancer. Forgot about that, guess it doesn't need one. Had to run it in. Felt a bit flat so took it easy. Few races in it felt like it loosened up nicely. Still get dragged by Kyle's FXR. More power required.

Engine very stock it turns out... Will compare to a stock FXR on Monday :eek:
I am light though!

[F5 Dave]

Cole's bike is very stock and that is fair game. Yours would eat Cole's.

Another night and carb mounted. A few hiccups like testing a bolt in the reedvalve mouth and it falling right in. Stuck under the piston and some deft work with a mirror and a magnet got it out.

Made cable mount and cable. I could start this. . . hmm ten minutes to midnight. Maybe I should let the neighbors sleep. Well last thing I'll try gas in it to see if it leaks. Starts pouring out the air bleed hole. Crap. Strange carbs don't seem to have overflows.

[F5 Dave]

Well got to the dyno with the new carb and swapped jets. A bit better than before but that could be the port clean up etc. Last test try the old carb with the bent inlet that's so clearly wrong. Exactly the same, well a bit better overrev. It stays and sounds cleaner too.

I doubt I'll be beating Nat, but I might be able to match him through the gears this time.

[F5 Dave]

Throttle cable was fraying so that swapping the carb was worthwhile exercise so made a new one up. Ready to go.