Mini Sidecars/Buckets in the UK

[jibberwobble]

To avoid spamming up Pumba's thread I've done this one to shove all this in one place and not clutter existing threads.

Bit of vid here (it moves away from the corner at about 2.30) Whilton Mill (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1298795249790&set=vb.1827687803&type=3)

General run down and as I said before I'm not the worlds leading expert so what I say is purely an opinion and open to debate:

Dimensions

Maximum overall length (including bodywork) 1727mm
Maximum overall width (including bodywork) 1122mm
Maximum overall height (including bodywork) 616mm
Maximum wheelbase 1144mm
Maximum track 759mm

Engine Specifications

Single cylinder 2-stroke road derived petrol motorcycle or scooter engine with a maximum capacity of 86cc.Tuning allowed to a maximum of 26 bhp.

OR

Single cylinder 4-stroke road derived petrol motorcycle or scooter engine with a maximum capacity of 200cc. Tuning allowed to a maximum of 26 bhp.

OR

Single cylinder 2-stroke moto-cross engine to a maximum capacity of 85cc. (Maximum 26 bhp).
Tuning not permitted. Engine, gearbox, carburettor, ignition and induction system to remain as manufacturer's standard.
The use of aftermarket reeds (petals) is permitted.
Exhaust may be an after market type designed to fit your engine and must be readily available to any member of the public to buy.

OR

Single cylinder 4 stroke moto-cross engines to a maximum capacity of 150cc (Maximum 26bhp).
Tuning is not permitted. Engine, gearbox, camshaft, carburettor, ignition to remain as manufacturers standard. The use of high compression pistons is not permitted.
Exhaust may be an after-market type designed to fit your engine and must be readily available to any member of the public to buy.

Some random pictures but please note these are the more bling units. most of them are not this pretty.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00009.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00007-1.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC0009.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00007.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00009.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00006-2.jpg

I'll come back and add to this a bit later, I've got to head off to work now :(

[Rick 52]

Looks fantastic, thanks for the pics, the engine rules are interesting .

[BigAl]

I feel an infraction coming on......

[jibberwobble]

With the engines there are mixed opinions as always but they seem well matched in general which ever way you go. we've had road based tuned 2t's and 4t's hanging out with stock MX motors quite a bit along the way. I run a 200cc Zongshen (chinky) pushrod engine which is a honda CG copy. It has the least power out of our lot but our sled seems to be good in the corners now we've sorted the CoG so we managed a 3rd (out of 11 ithink) on the grid last time we raced. we are up against a few 2t MX motors, and a few CRF150 4t MX motors currently which are aroun 24hp where as our lump is rated @15/17hp or something like that. removing stock exhaust and air box makes a big difference though. I am looking at jollying our Zonger up a bit this year but have sacrificed the first 3 rounds in order to convert my bucket of shit into something a bit more reliable and sleek.

Out of t-break :doh: so will put more stuff up in a later

[jibberwobble]

I feel an infraction coming on......

Bloody hell what have I done already?

[BigAl]

Bloody hell what have I done already?

Na, Rick for quoting imbedded images.

Nice rigs though Jw, what are the participation levels like for chairs and minimotos over there?

[jibberwobble]

Strugling a bit with laying my hands on useful pics from here but here's a few -

No.1 son having a taxi ride

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1377275_4980584892230_1072789122_n.jpg

No.2 son .....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1378527_4980585972257_330212835_n.jpg

Up until now we've had two styles of outfit, the racing lawn mower type ones which are known as 'old school'. With these the passenger/swinger sits on the chair wheel arch much of time and exits in front of the wheel for lefts. The chair wheel being quite far back. The ones with full bodywork are known as new generation and have the chair wheel fully covered by the main fairing, passenger exits behind and up the side or over the top. Having issues finding something with left handers in shot though so bare with me.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_9803_zpsbe9a42b7.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_9804_zpsfaf7f849.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_0252_zps0f32c315.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_9808_zps3169b3ea.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_9809_zps910e2726.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_0271_zps6bcb217a.jpg

In the vid in the first post I am passengering on the first one that comes round the corner (black n blue). I was standing in for a couple of rounds, before that I had a few try outs on this new gen outfit which is very small indeed. And the white outfit (vid) which is the last one to come round is my machine in the hands of it's previous headcase err owner.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/whilton1.jpg

[jibberwobble]

Na, Rick for quoting imbedded images.

Nice rigs though Jw, what are the participation levels like for chairs and minimotos over there?

Ah I see, hopefully he will have smacked his own bottom by now!

Something like 12 active crews on sidecars atm although 2 of us are still dragging along with overshot builds. MM's are not bad just now with 30-40 turning up at meetings across the classes. It's quite big on the kids front now, they move from A/C to W/C then up to mini GP and after that big bike 125's etc. We also have pit bike classes and what is currently being called moto team which are basically what would fall under the catagory of buckets in NZ.

Hang on for more pics of other bikes and chairs :)

[jibberwobble]

As you can see we all run kart wheels, rules state max wheel size of 6 inches. Most run regular 5 inch rims and plenty of good used tyres can be bought cheap on ebay or found free in the skip at most tracks. I will be running 6 inch rims now as an experiment this year, Stu (filf racing) has been on 6's for ages. Tamzines outfit here has 6's too. We all use kart running gear. No suspension aloud for us but not sure it be of much use TBH

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00139.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00130.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00105.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00070.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00020-1.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00018-1.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00018-1.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00007-2.jpg

We have to have two seperate braking systems. Some use a foot brake like big chairs with a standard style front for the emergency.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/013.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/chassis.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00093.jpg

[jibberwobble]

Most of the riders on the old school outfits just use the front brake alone to do all the stopping, the rear is on the same bar as the clutch so it is fairly useless but fills a gap in the rules! I was doing all my stopping like this last year and I must admit to my surprise at it's effectiveness. Llandow has a long straight with a hairpin at the end and when I stand on track at the point where I usually throw the anchor out from around 100k's and its shocking how short the stopping distance is.

Tamzines outfit is the only one with a chair wheel brake but is not currently being raced. The yellow new gen outfits use a foot brake linked to front and rear calipers. And once mine is done it'll have chair wheel brake and bias system on the foot pedal working all three.


And now Stuart is building what has become generation 3 which is a mini version of a full size F1

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Filfs%20new%20outfit/20130928_162953_zps0ae019cf.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Filfs%20new%20outfit/20131004_135628_zpsc8f675fd.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Filfs%20new%20outfit/20131004_135645_zpsc3e6accf.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Filfs%20new%20outfit/20140121_210914_zps8cc557cb.jpg

Having said all that, the most sucsessful rig of all is one of the old school ones but this is largly to do with the rider

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/Llandow%20Round%202%202013/IMG_0134_zps5d2bd7b8.jpg

Obviously some of these rigs are being put together by people who concentrate on just sidecars so you would expect a certain degree of adventurousness! (is that a word?)

[koba]

Interesting!

Thanks for sharing, certainly don't hesitate to post more.

It would be interesting to see how the 'long' bike goes, I would have thought the shorties the best bet.

[Pumba]

Loving the pictures. After my frame failed at its last outing I have been sketching some ideas out. Some good ideas in that lot:rolleyes:

[jibberwobble]

Loving the pictures. After my frame failed at its last outing I have been sketching some ideas out. Some good ideas in that lot:rolleyes:

Any particular areas you want to see different approaches on just shout and I'll see what I can find :)

[avgas]

fracking cool

[jibberwobble]

Interesting!

Thanks for sharing, certainly don't hesitate to post more.

It would be interesting to see how the 'long' bike goes, I would have thought the shorties the best bet.

I read the 'long bike' 'short bike' bit on Pumba's thread but forget how it works now. Is it the engine at the back, frame in the middle or both?

On mine the engine is at the front and the frame runs down one side of it and inside my left thigh so I straddle it.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/My%20outfit/IMAG1146_zps48ce7c28.jpg

Since I got mine I've been making efforts to get the weight further forward which is doing the trick nicely, on the rebuild this time round its going slightly further forward still and we have a heavy motor in there anyway. We do have bigger front tyre going in as well. At the end of a race the rear is warm but the front is bloody roasting. If I can get hold of the engine I'm after we'll be needing to move the CoG back a touch again.

Here's more of stu's (Filf Racing). My first thoughts on it were that the CoG was going to be too far aft but his thick filfy head is going to be well up front to avoid burning his fat filfy arse on the engine so maybe it'll work out ok???

This is pretty much all the pictures that he's put up of it so far.

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1795596_10202467802890586_865096274_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1001273_10202449650396785_1284949351_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1377489_1380046732280707_6571635681931935273_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1013577_1378319319120115_8185773288246682697_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10176027_1383972875221426_5728930527642733122_n.jp g

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10349148_1403816786570368_8488310175134620367_n.jp g

[jibberwobble]

Na, Rick for quoting imbedded images.

Nice rigs though Jw, what are the participation levels like for chairs and minimotos over there?

Will put up some MM stuff in it's own section when I get a chance mate

[Henk]

The long bike short bike thing is where the engine is.
Long engine behind rider, short in front.
We have a mixture here, mainly because Brenton has built the last couple and he had a long bike to base it on. Pumbas is a short bike with an FXR engine, the main issue I can see with it is that if he isn't careful he can block the carb with his chest. Rick and I discussed what we would do if we built another and came to the conclusion that we'd do another long bike but mainly because we have one now and it seems to work for us.
We also have a couple of classic style rigs that are basically a sidecar welded onto a complete motorcycle, or in the case of John's one a 150cc four stroke Chinese scooter. These aren't able to compete with the purpose built rigs but can be put together in a couple of days with a welder, they can't hold the same corner speed but are still a bundle of laughs, Brian can do the length of the straight on two wheels on his, I've always wanted to try riding underneath it. Would make a great photo.

[jibberwobble]

The long bike short bike thing is where the engine is.
Long engine behind rider, short in front.

I've always wanted to try riding underneath it. Would make a great photo.

Ah cool, well because ours are so small legnth becomes an issue. Stuart is going to get piston butt fucked if his head bolts fails and I like some of you are laying on the carb there just isnt really enough room either way which makes for some 'sideways' thinking. You just wouldnt get a 4 stroke at the back on our chassis like you can.

When I got mine I was blanking the carb off and couldnt figure out how the previous own was getting around it??? I made a 90 deg elbow to point the carb off out the side which worked ok but chest was still resting on it and the rocker box cover is right under my chin which is good for hearing the valves trying to escape when we loose 5th gear. I have more trials to do yet but trying to place the carb almost beside the cylinder pointing forwards. This one was too long and needs tighter radius bends.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/My%20outfit/IMAG1659_zpsc5fcf004.jpg

On the bodywork front I'm going for something a bit bigger than Stu's and in an F2 stylee, I may stand a chance of falling out in a roll over where as Stu is gonna be a Filf Sandwich if that thing capsizes :shit: They all have some sort of bodywork which is a rule thing and to help stop body parts getting eaten by industrial parts in a big pile up.

Mine ans Stu's are exactly the same size (MAX) regarding wheel base and body legth. Will do build thread on mine sometime.

Here's some of the other stuff that races as our meetings.


Mini GP - What the kids move onto after minimoto @9years old:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/404009_2592588513813_752506736_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/t1.0-9/557210_2592616594515_1459455372_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/528849_2592630514863_1033105035_n.jpg

https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yP/r/7eXyMfo7rRq.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/544595_2595224579713_1502400442_n.jpg


Pitbike supermoto:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/528396_2592821399635_1816116038_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/544756_2595251820394_1250030123_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/562750_2592795958999_1563264597_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/291911_1792942563164_993249678_n.jpg


Minimoto:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/564531_2639389203801_289775094_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/295070_2638895871468_1731737355_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/557395_2591010314359_1369788444_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/532582_2591152237907_2117200795_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/556455_2591032114904_1368038162_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/p417x417/538743_2587913316936_1214641399_n.jpg


And Solo Buckets??:

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/196678_1486123212872_3046987_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/t1.0-9/190574_1486122532855_5466711_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/t1.0-9/399166_2643663390653_1237915466_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/405098_2643663550657_480519344_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/522120_2643664350677_287837178_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/389713_2643665750712_396777254_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/36596_2643716111971_1122348983_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/533430_2643820474580_1366980536_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/292699_1725862206197_1420382_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/262040_1605703482304_2749718_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/255081_1605704842338_4515348_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/222154_1518920472783_1563031_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/207019_1518921312804_1424805_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/205462_1518923752865_6331176_n.jpg

[Drew]

Looks like you chairs don't comply with our rules. We have a maximum offset between front and drive wheel centers.

On a full size chair it's 50mm. I dunno the exact number for a mini, but you seem to have more than 50.

[Kickaha]

On a full size chair it's 50mm.
It is 75mm for F1/F2 and 70mm for Buckets

[Drew]

It is 75mm for F1/F2 and 70mm for Buckets

Ah, perhaps the number in my head came from what our chair measures.

[jibberwobble]

Quick measure of mine...... it's around 100mm, I dont know why or how that came to be but seems fairly similar to most of the others. I have never experimented as it's always been like that but I assume someone somewhere along the line came to the conclusion that that was about right. That doesnt mean to say it is though!

My rear wheel is kinda adjustable in that I can slide the rear hub along the axle but 80/90mm would apear to be the minimum I can get. I'll do some pics of my rear axle arrangement later, it's not the prettiest in the world but I do like the ease of set up and lack of having to have 'special parts'.

[jibberwobble]

Rear axle assembly on mine...............

Two vertical hangers sort of like these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bearing-Bracket-Flange-Weld-On-Section-Go-Kart-Offroad-Buggy-30-50mm-Axle-/310673573074?pt=AU_Go_Kart_Parts_Accessories&hash=item48559684d2

With bearing carriers a bit like these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kart-30mm-Quick-Release-Bearing-Carrier-ProKart-/331191606025?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehic le_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item4d1c8edb09

The bearings are spherical and if fitted whilst on the axle will find their own alignment so if the hangers arent perfectly vertical your axle will still work.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/My%20outfit/IMAG0433.jpg

So once it's all on there you can fiddle a little to get everything lining up. I peg most of these items to the axle with a 5mm bolt to stop it all wondering around on track. Split sprockets are defo the way to go for easy changes.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/My%20outfit/IMAG0429.jpg

This axle is a 30mm solid kart axle with keyway all the way down so one new kart axle is enough to make four sidecar axles :)

Some of the others have the axle mounted differently which looks neater to me but at the same time a bit more fiddly to get right.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00105.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/010.jpg

[jibberwobble]

Pumba:

Cant find much that gives the whole story away with whats going on with this type of set up but I'm thinking you're right in that it's a 17mm axle with the bearings inside the brake disc carrier which has a long shaft that the wheel hub and sproket mount on. Havent seen or heard from Tamzine for donkeys so cant ask her. I'm sure there's at least one other outfit with this arrangement around but havent got photo's of it. Shame as there's a meeting this w/e and I'm missing it again. Just not had the funds or time to get it all together with work being all over the place atm.

Her chair wheel looks to be the same minus the cog. Surprised to see unshielded bearings in there though.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00087.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00095.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k180/jibberwobble/Minimoto/Minimoto%20Sidecars/DSC00094.jpg

[jibberwobble]

Bleedin ell are the pics working for anyone? all I've got is icons and my PC is groaning a lot!

[Drew]

Bleedin ell are the pics working for anyone? all I've got is icons and my PC is groaning a lot!

Nope, shit is fucked up.

[Kickaha]

Bleedin ell are the pics working for anyone? all I've got is icons and my PC is groaning a lot!

All working here

[TZ350]

Nope ....:(

[Pumba]

Me neither. Glad it happened to you. Thought it was my incompetence when it happened to me yesterday

I could click on the icons and use copy the link address to look at the pics

[BigAl]

Nada, perhaps you've broken it.

[jibberwobble]

changed from dropbox to photbucket for the links.... fucking headache!