Moto3

[FROSTY]

Is it just me or is moto 3 the most exciting bike racing out there.
For me its edge of your seat stuff reminds me of the 250 production racing back in then 1980's

[haydes55]

I agree. You never know who will take it out and there's usually 3 or 4 lead changes in the final lap if there are a few guys up there. So much strategy.

Plus motogp is usually past my bed time, so I have to watch the gp replayed, but moto3 live. The red bull rookies racing was good to watch too (when they show coverage).

[BoristheBiter]

Totally agree.

It is just fantastic to watch and that last one was just something else.

[steveyb]

Yep, absolutely is. Makes MotoGP look like F1.
But it is just like 125GP was before the factories (Aprilia mostly) built a small handful of unobtanium factory bikes.
Hopefully the factories will see the folly in doing that this time round.

If we can somehow get a few more (mostly) youngsters on the grid here in NZ on 125GP/Pre-Moto3 machines, we too can have the same show.
The smaller and less powerful bikes just tend to lend themselves to closer more attractive racing.

[scott411]

Yep, absolutely is. Makes MotoGP look like F1.
But it is just like 125GP was before the factories (Aprilia mostly) built a small handful of unobtanium factory bikes.
Hopefully the factories will see the folly in doing that this time round.

If we can somehow get a few more (mostly) youngsters on the grid here in NZ on 125GP/Pre-Moto3 machines, we too can have the same show.
The smaller and less powerful bikes just tend to lend themselves to closer more attractive racing.

i thought the rules of Moto 3 were you had to make a certain number of engines available at a certain price?

[pritch]

\
The smaller and less powerful bikes just tend to lend themselves to closer more attractive racing.

Not always, a lot of times the 600s put on the best show. That last Moto3 race was special though, from start to finish.

[haydes55]

i thought the rules of Moto 3 were you had to make a certain number of engines available at a certain price?





Na, moto3 is like motogp but smaller, prototype racing.

I wish my 267cc (iirc) single could do 220km/h+ instead of revving its tits off at 150km/h

[scott411]

Na, moto3 is like motogp but smaller, prototype racing.

I wish my 267cc (iirc) single could do 220km/h+ instead of revving its tits off at 150km/h

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/173717/1/full-moto3-technical-regulations-announced.html

did they change from the first year? 12K euro, and minimum of 15 available to teams,

edit: looks like here are the legal motors,

http://www.fim-live.com/en/fim/fim-official-documents/moto3-approved-engine-and-parts/

[mr bucketracer]

i would like to see more on the track here so can i build 2 bikes with zxr250 engine in them or should i say do you think its a good idea , it would sound so cool , dont see why the rules have to be the same if its about getting more number on the track

[pritch]

i would like to see more on the track here so can i build 2 bikes with zxr250 engine in them

Nah, not when you can buy one of these:

http://world.honda.com/HRC/products/machine/nsf250r/spec/

Although that model hash't got the "mass centralisation be buggered" exhaust system.

[george formby]

I agree. You never know who will take it out and there's usually 3 or 4 lead changes in the final lap if there are a few guys up there. So much strategy.

Plus motogp is usually past my bed time, so I have to watch the gp replayed, but moto3 live. The red bull rookies racing was good to watch too (when they show coverage).

Yup, I'm snoring before the main event, too. Only caught the last few laps of the moto 3 at the weekend but phew! Love the 6 hundys as well, very competitive but a lot more lurid.
I've reached the point that I'm happy with the motogp high lights and unhappy if I miss the 2 and 3 races live.

I was also trying to keep an eye on the support classes for BSB. The Triumph 675 series is epic, absolutely nanas. BSB is pretty nanas anyway.

The other race series that's really hot is the European one make class, Honda's at the mo I think. A kiwi lad who's name escapes me was doing really well. Maybe that was last season......

As much as I love the tussle & elbows of a good track race we are now into the UK road racing season. Now that is edge of the seat stuff.
Different league IMHO.

[pritch]

The other race series that's really hot is the European one make class, Honda's at the mo I think. A kiwi lad who's name escapes me was doing really well. Maybe that was last season......



Jake Lewis is in Superstock 600 this year IIRC.

[george formby]

Jake Lewis is in Superstock 600 this year IIRC.

Ah, cheers! He done good.

[Shaun Harris]

[QUOTE=george formby;1130723090]



The Triumph 675 series is epic, absolutely nanas. BSB is pretty nanas anyway.







That sure is exellent racing and an awsome way to go racing in the BSB series and get noticed by the top teams

[steveyb]

Nah, not when you can buy one of these:

http://world.honda.com/HRC/products/machine/nsf250r/spec/

Although that model hash't got the "mass centralisation be buggered" exhaust system.


Or one of these for less money (not sure how much less quite yet):

http://www.imd250.com

The Mark 2 version will launch this summer and will have a lower kerb weight than the NSF250 (in fact we already do!! Don't have the same power output just yet, but that will be better with the Mark 2 version).

If you look closely, the new Honda engine design has copied a lot from the KTM SXF250 engine.
The only real-world differences between the Honda NSF engine and the KTM SXF250 are: plain shell bearings instead of roller bearings in crankshaft (I wonder if this can be reverse engineered?? Any experts out there? But really is not an issue, just makes service intervals a bit shorter at the high RPM's) and the transmission ratios. (I know this can be done, but costs money as bespoke gears might need making as no one offers off the shelf alternatives. The KTM XCF ones are not right either). Maybe searching parts books might turn up alternatives from other engines? Anyone keen to go looking for me???
The service limits on the Moto3 engines are pretty short and the parts costs of consumables is high.

Other than the crankshaft bearings, with a little bit of work we can make the KTM SXF engine perform virtually as well as a customer NSF250 engine, at least for the purposes of use in NZ racing, for waaaay less than half the cost.

Come on, place your orders now......

[eelracing]

Or one of these...

Come on, place your orders now......


Mk1 on the left...Mk2 in the middle...and Steveys' on the right,good team man that he is.

[scott411]

what is the price of the honda does anyone know? and does moriwaki still do their one based on the crf250x motor?

[steveyb]

Mk1 on the left...Mk2 in the middle...and Steveys' on the right,good team man that he is.

You'll keep, don't you worry....... :Oi:


what is the price of the honda does anyone know? and does moriwaki still do their one based on the crf250x motor?

The Moriwaki MD250H does indeed use the CRF250X engine. Hop-up kit includes buying the CRF250R head and various other bits and pieces. Used examples are available from the USA, Netherlands (ten Kate Racing) and Japan probably.
Harc-Pro made a bike too, for a short while, also using the Honda CRF250 engine, but discontinued it.
Moriwaki are now marketing the MD250S using the Suzuki RM-Z250 engine.
New I think they are about USD$14000 or so ex-USA, not 100% sure.

The NSF price totally depends on in which market you buy it, as does the KTM Moto3. The NZ dealer price, if you can get it (I tried sourcing NSF250 engines via Blue Wing Honda and was told they totally cannot buy them as they are not a Honda owned distributer. We also tried via the back door in Australia also to be told no), is much higher than equivalent prices overseas. Example, KTM Moto3 NZ price in 2013 was $92 or $94,000. Overseas the prices are much less than that. BUT, only very small numbers of bikes are available, so hard to get hold of.
So one would have to go searching around the world. Of course this is not impossible, bikes and engines are available.

2012 and 2013 NSF bikes are already available as the engines are no longer competitive, but they will be snapped up in country of origin I would think, for their local racers and the used bike prices are in the E 20-30,000 bracket from memory.
I think (also from poor memory) that the NSF250 was listed around USD$28,000 or something like that. That was for a base model bike, and bike only. The spares kit listed was a couple of rear sprockets, seat foam and some HRC stickers. Gone are the days when you got a spares kit to last 2 seasons with a new RS125. And that base bike is slower than a good RS125 and needs alot of work to make it faster. I have heard anecdotally of teams sending their Honda NSF engines to Italy for E30k worth of work to make them faster. Cannot verify that though. Sounds like a lot of effort.

There are other Moto3 bikes being marketed such as the Ioda. They want E60k or something daft. Mahindra will likely make their bike available soon too as it seems like a very nice bike. Made by an Italian firm. Also the Rumi Moto3 of course, but they are a small concern, so production would be small runs.

There is also a Pre-Moto3 bike in the USA from GP-Pro using the Yamaha YZ250F or WR250 engines. Around USD$20k mark.

Retail price for a Mk2 IMD250 is looking to be in the NZD$25k - 35k depending on specification (options available). We are still the only people exploring the KTM 250SX-F engine.

[scott411]

do you mean the 12 - 13 bikes you talk about being uncompetitive, are you talking in compared to moto 3, or against the 125's are here?

I would think they would be still up on horsepower to the mx engined bikes?

[steveyb]

Yes, the 2012/2013 Hondas in Moto3 at world level are, with the release of the 2014 model which is a total upgrade, virtually obsolete, at World level that is.
The evidence is clear. Millar on the best Honda last year could keep up for the first half of race and then fell back. This year the Hondas are competitive, if not a bit better than the KTM. The Mahindra is a touch off the pace, but still pretty good.

The evidence from around the traps in various countries has the 2012 and 2013 NSF250s in customer form, as only just competitive with good RS125 bikes (not standard ones, but kit ones).
Now, that is just customer form. Hot them up a bit and they are competitive. That is part of the reason why the countries that have introduced Moto3 classes have made them Moto3 only, such as Spain and Italy.
In the countries where 125 and Moto3 race together, the good riders still win, but 125's still tend to be at the pointy end more often.
In NZ we have a small number of really hot 125's, maybe 3? On our slower, stoppy starty circuits the NSF would undoubtedly come out ahead, with a good rider on board. We demonstrated the capabilities of such bikes at NZSBK 2014 Ruapuna and Levels with our prototype, far from optimal Pre-Moto3 bike and a learner rider who is really too big for this class, in that he was running in 2nd for a lap or two at the start and was competing for 4th place by the time he got up to speed.

Pre-Moto3 or GPMono is a level below Moto3.
In Spain, the Spanish Cup races Pre-Moto3 (and 125 together I think, can't recall). Spanish Cup is a national series, but a level below CEV.

Sure, a Moto3 engine should make more power than an MX engine, but that is mostly if you compare an NX7 (i.e. NSF250) engine to the Honda CRF engine.
The KTM engines are quite different (as I am sure you would well know Scott) and are designed to go racing straight out of the box, unlike the Jap engines which often require race kits to compete.

The new 2013/14 KTM 250SX-F engines have all the same stuff that the NX7 engine has and might even be a bit better on paper, on an engine dyno. These manufacturers are an odd bunch. KTM made a wicked camshaft profile in the 2005-2007 250SX-F, then went backwards until 2013. And now it turns out (from someone who has measured them up), that the 2013 KTM Moto3 cam profiles are the same as the 2005-2007 SX-F. So, if we put those cam profiles in a 2013 engine, with high comp piston and good ignition and pipe, it will make the same power as the NX7 engine, easily I would suggest and is designed to rev to 14000 rpm.

But the overall designs of the MX engines for roadbike racing are limited by the engine shape (with the transmission out the back they end up being long compared to the NX7 engine) and the transmission ratios (which are not optimal for road circuit use). But the latter can be fixed with time, effort and money.

The real power is found by adding some volume into the inlet tract, higher comp piston, programmable ignition and exhaust pipe optimisation. All of which we don't yet have on the IMD250, but yet just removing the engine from the compromised MX bike environment (i.e. exhaust, airbox, smaller chain, bigger carb etc) and slightly higher comp piston than standard, we have a real rear wheel hp of around 40 (our dyno shows more than that, but toning it back for the skeptics). The KTM engine has a lot more potential in it than we are currently achieving, even the 2007 non-balance shaft motors we have.

What I would really like to do is to optimise the transmission, but I realise I am probably dreaming with that.
We can do all the other stuff.
If someone has a 2013 250SX-F engine burning a hole in their pocket, send it over!!

[scott411]

the motor layout is something i thought of as well, the newer KTM250SX has a 5 speed gearbox right tho, the older one had a 6 speed which i thought would be better for your application,

the KTM probably has the most top end of the new 250F's, the US magazine tests all put the new YZ, KX and KTM over 40hp, std, with the KTM having by far the most over rev, which is a much better road race power band than the mid range mx type power bands of the KX and YZ,

http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=F116DDFE932C4EBF88B15C6F84A89E18

Would the reverse engine of the YZ (inlet in the front, exhaust out the back) configuration be of any use on the GP type bike?

[steveyb]

The 2013 6-spd trans can be fitted straight into the 2014 if required.
The CRF being 5-spd is used in the Moriwaki.
6-spd is I think better, but only really if the ratios are good. Currently we could probably get away with only using 2nd-6th, but takes a bit of management to do that.
The top end performance of the KTM is astounding. They go 1000 - 2000 rpm more than the competition.
The 2013-14 SXF engines are well over 40, nearly 45hp standard (or so KTM say anyway. Maybe PS on an engine dyno).

A WR450 engine (or is it a YZF450??) has been fitted into an RS125 chassis in NZ and goes really well. But the reverse engine makes no difference really, just makes making the exhaust a bit easier perhaps, but then maybe not because makes making an airbox a lot more complicated.

Two other bikes have been built in this vein: CRF450 in RS125 chassis, goes really well, and CRF250R in RS125 chassis, also goes really well. Maybe see it out more often next summer?

[scott411]

The 2013 6-spd trans can be fitted straight into the 2014 if required.
The CRF being 5-spd is used in the Moriwaki.
6-spd is I think better, but only really if the ratios are good. Currently we could probably get away with only using 2nd-6th, but takes a bit of management to do that.
The top end performance of the KTM is astounding. They go 1000 - 2000 rpm more than the competition.
The 2013-14 SXF engines are well over 40, nearly 45hp standard (or so KTM say anyway. Maybe PS on an engine dyno).

A WR450 engine (or is it a YZF450??) has been fitted into an RS125 chassis in NZ and goes really well. But the reverse engine makes no difference really, just makes making the exhaust a bit easier perhaps, but then maybe not because makes making an airbox a lot more complicated.

Two other bikes have been built in this vein: CRF450 in RS125 chassis, goes really well, and CRF250R in RS125 chassis, also goes really well. Maybe see it out more often next summer?

yes i have seen the 450 motors in the RS125, suprised this is not more popular as it would make a very fun bike, same with the formula 450 moto conversions, although the full engine transfer would probably be easier and a better handling bike,

[steveyb]

Yes, agree with that.
The MotoX conversions look like a good idea on paper, but in reality they just don't seem to work as well as is needed to compete against road-designed chassis.
In a feild on only MotoX conversions they would be great. But they also do end up costing quite a bit to do well.
With regard to the 450 transplants, I guess there are just not that many people with the combination of desire, interest in that class, money and engineering skills to do it.

[haydes55]

Moto3 at Mugello was amazing to watch, 3 wide photo finish for podium and a 3 way crash on the last lap taking out Marquez and Miller.

[steveyb]

I simply cannot fathom why in NZ, people don't want to have a piece of that sort of racing.
A field of 20 125's and Pre-Moto3's at NZSBK would be awesome to watch.
Get into it!!!

[richban]

I simply cannot fathom why in NZ, people don't want to have a piece of that sort of racing.
A field of 20 125's and Pre-Moto3's at NZSBK would be awesome to watch.
Get into it!!!

Looks like we will have to settle for the 250 pordie option. Still great racing. Another few on the grid and away yah go.

But yeah what a great race. Love the big mono's they are pulling out on those bikes. It really does look like they are having fun.

[Mattr]

I simply cannot fathom why in NZ, people don't want to have a piece of that sort of racing.
A field of 20 125's and Pre-Moto3's at NZSBK would be awesome to watch.
Get into it!!!

I agree totally. And awesome to ride

[haydes55]

I simply cannot fathom why in NZ, people don't want to have a piece of that sort of racing.

A field of 20 125's and Pre-Moto3's at NZSBK would be awesome to watch.

Get into it!!!


You reckon a Moto3 rider on a Moto3 spec bike would give the super sports a run for there money in NZ?

[steveyb]

I would not think so, but could do, could do....

[richban]

I would not think so, but could do, could do....

It would be close for sure. Aren't they usually about 10 seconds down on the Motogp bikes?

[steveyb]

Mugello:
Marquez 1,47.89 173.8 kph avg
Rabat 1.52.59, 166.1 kph avg
Fenati 1,58.23 158.2 kph avg

Argentina:
Pedrosa 1'39.233 174.3 Km/h
SALOM 1'44.011 166.3 Km/h
MARQUEZ 1'49.109 158.5 Km/h

Do we have a similar spread in NZ?
E.G. Manfeild; lap record for 125 is 1.13.5 (i.e. 73s, what are Superbike and Supersport? 68s and 65s or something like that?

[Maido]

Mugello:
Marquez 1,47.89 173.8 kph avg
Rabat 1.52.59, 166.1 kph avg
Fenati 1,58.23 158.2 kph avg

Argentina:
Pedrosa 1'39.233 174.3 Km/h
SALOM 1'44.011 166.3 Km/h
MARQUEZ 1'49.109 158.5 Km/h

Do we have a similar spread in NZ?
E.G. Manfeild; lap record for 125 is 1.13.5 (i.e. 73s, what are Superbike and Supersport? 68s and 65s or something like that?


Jake Lewis (3rd in NZSBK 600SP) at Assen on Superstock 600 1.43.2 (fastest lap of the qualifying was 1.40.8)
Fastest moto3 lap in Assen 2013 1.43.4

keep in mind I took Jake's time from qualifying as the race was wet. I imagine race pace would be 0.2-0.5 quicker as a guess.

I think our tight tracks would be better suited to the 600's though instead of moto 3 bikes that are made to run on billiard tables.

[Shaun Harris]

Jake Lewis (3rd in NZSBK 600SP) at Assen on Superstock 600 1.43.2 (fastest lap of the qualifying was 1.40.8)
Fastest moto3 lap in Assen 2013 1.43.4

keep in mind I took Jake's time from qualifying as the race was wet. I imagine race pace would be 0.2-0.5 quicker as a guess.

I think our tight tracks would be better suited to the 600's though instead of moto 3 bikes that are made to run on billiard tables.








Moto3 bikes are just a dream world for the NZ Race scene, they will never take off here.

[richban]

Mugello:
Marquez 1,47.89 173.8 kph avg
Rabat 1.52.59, 166.1 kph avg
Fenati 1,58.23 158.2 kph avg

Argentina:
Pedrosa 1'39.233 174.3 Km/h
SALOM 1'44.011 166.3 Km/h
MARQUEZ 1'49.109 158.5 Km/h

Do we have a similar spread in NZ?
E.G. Manfeild; lap record for 125 is 1.13.5 (i.e. 73s, what are Superbike and Supersport? 68s and 65s or something like that?

Rather impressive really. 125GP and Moto3 have always been my favourite class. 250's was next. Its shaping up to be a great season for moto3. Miller needs to keep his head I reckon. Its all on now.

[haydes55]

Rather impressive really. 125GP and Moto3 have always been my favourite class. 250's was next. Its shaping up to be a great season for moto3. Miller needs to keep his head I reckon. Its all on now.


I feel sorry for Miller, racing accident. There's not much anyone could have done differently. No one was giving up the line, and that many bikes that close means you can't listen for where a competitor is.

[richban]

I feel sorry for Miller, racing accident. There's not much anyone could have done differently. No one was giving up the line, and that many bikes that close means you can't listen for where a competitor is.

I think it was his fault. He new he had to make a move or he was fucked. He bombed in from way back to hit an apex 2 or 3 guys were aways going to hit. Good try but no go. Got to love the confidence.

[Shaun Harris]

I think it was his fault. He new he had to make a move or he was fucked. He bombed in from way back to hit an apex 2 or 3 guys were aways going to hit. Good try but no go. Got to love the confidence.







Pure Pucker Kiwi/Aussie fighter mentallity:headbang:

[badlieutenant]

yer, it looked to my untrained eye that millar hoped to be somewhere around 3rd or fourth coming onto the straight? , but it went ugly for him and he ended up mixed up at the back. Bummer he took out AM as well :/ did race direction do any thing after their "investigation" ? I hope not. Looked like a ballsy move that if it had worked would have been epic. :D

[Mattr]

How do we get 10 + 125gp bikes back up and circulating in the club scene again? There must be quite a few just sitting around in garages that should be used ? The reason MX is so popular is that you can purchase race bikes for low cost, 125 club racing must fit into this bracket?

[scott411]

How do we get 10 + 125gp bikes back up and circulating in the club scene again? There must be quite a few just sitting around in garages that should be used ? The reason MX is so popular is that you can purchase race bikes for low cost, 125 club racing must fit into this bracket?

there is many more reasons why MX is so popular,
you can use the bike for any trail ride, or any free ride session with your mates,
a club day sign on is usually under $30,
you get a minimum of 3 10 minute plus a lap races, rather than sometimes 3 6-8 lap races,

GP bikes take a fair bit of setup, and prep, Kiwi's dont seem to like that,

edit: tyres cost under $250 a set, and last for months,

[BoristheBiter]

there is many more reasons why MX is so popular,
you can use the bike for any trail ride, or any free ride session with your mates,
a club day sign on is usually under $30,
you get a minimum of 3 10 minute plus a lap races, rather than sometimes 3 6-8 lap races,

GP bikes take a fair bit of setup, and prep, Kiwi's dont seem to like that,

edit: tyres cost under $250 a set, and last for months,

And most of us dirt bikers aren't that airodynamic. :blink:

[oyster]

How do we get 10 + 125gp bikes back up and circulating in the club scene again? There must be quite a few just sitting around in garages that should be used ? The reason MX is so popular is that you can purchase race bikes for low cost, 125 club racing must fit into this bracket?

That's easy. Clubs just need to adopt the proven principles of all sport development.
Promote, recruit and train youth through feeder classes such as Young Junior Road Race and Streetstock. Canterbury is the only club that's done it, and the results are obvious.
Imagine if every club around NZ committed to the same process, and yeilded the same results. You'd have healthy feilds and good depth.

[richban]

Imagine if every club around NZ committed to the same process, and yeilded the same results. You'd have healthy feilds and good depth.

Ever heard of that little club in the north. The Vic club I think its called.:innocent:

[Ntoxcated]

yer, it looked to my untrained eye that millar hoped to be somewhere around 3rd or fourth coming onto the straight? , but it went ugly for him and he ended up mixed up at the back. Bummer he took out AM as well :/ did race direction do any thing after their "investigation" ? I hope not. Looked like a ballsy move that if it had worked would have been epic. :D

He was awarded 2 penalty points (http://motomatters.com/news/2014/06/01/jack_miller_handed_two_penalty_points_th.html)

[badlieutenant]

He was awarded 2 penalty points (http://motomatters.com/news/2014/06/01/jack_miller_handed_two_penalty_points_th.html)
He doesn't come across as whinger like Casey (which is most likely a media thing)
He had a good point ->> "If you see a gap, you go for it. If you don't do that, then what the hell are you doing out there? I'm here to win races."

[Billy]

Ever heard of that little club in the north. The Vic club I think its called.:innocent:

Yeah,

What about it?Do they regularly have 30 upwards in their development class?MCI do and have done for a number of years now since Oyster set up their junior development,Do they allow extra track time and coaching for their juniors on race day? Again,MCI do,Yip its easier for them to get access to their track,BUT they also make Waaay better use of the time they have,Have a look at the results from the recent NZSBK series,They speak for themselves as they have done for some years now.

They have a huge talent pool that is a direct result of Oysters initiative,You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know the future is in the youngsters,NOT the 30-50 year olds.If theres anybody in the North Island promoting entry level for the younger competitors,Its Hyosung NZ and thats not a patch on what MCI contribute.

[oyster]

Ever heard of that little club in the north. The Vic club I think its called.:innocent:

Does this club run a junior age group series? Does it run a dedicated training/induction class, with coaches on the the track with a 3 to 1 ratio or better? Does it have streetstock (development) racing with 30 on the grid, 20 under 17 years old? Does it promote and run Young Junior Road Race? Does it regularly run articles in national magazines dedicated to this activity? does it have an elected club roles Committee, Junior Rep, and Junior RR coordinator? Does it actively contact young riders around the country to host them at their meetings, with bikes, gear, coaching and accomodation/transport supplied? Maybe yes to some of these, great to see the "scrutineering shed" base for some of this lately. But what I've described is the Canterbury model, running and successfull at least 6 years ago.
Yes, I've heard of the Vic Club, they are the "best of the rest". They have had the intent for sure, but have shunned the basic principles (I've described above) and the (lack of) results show it. How many young Vic riders have acheived National titles without the benefit of travelling south to be hosted, supported and coached by the south?

[Shaun Harris]

The VIC club is great for what they do. But Ch CH has really created the future path for young riders, and them alone really. A certain man needs naming and thanking, but that was not what he got involved for, so a huge thanks go out to all involved in the creative productive production line coming out of the Sth Island

[quickbuck]

Does this club run a junior age group series? Does it run a dedicated training/induction class, with coaches on the the track with a 3 to 1 ratio or better? Does it have streetstock (development) racing with 30 on the grid, 20 under 17 years old? Does it promote and run Young Junior Road Race? Does it regularly run articles in national magazines dedicated to this activity? does it have an elected club roles Committee, Junior Rep, and Junior RR coordinator? Does it actively contact young riders around the country to host them at their meetings, with bikes, gear, coaching and accomodation/transport supplied? Maybe yes to some of these, great to see the "scrutineering shed" base for some of this lately. But what I've described is the Canterbury model, running and successfull at least 6 years ago.

Yes, I've heard of the Vic Club, they are the "best of the rest". They have had the intent for sure, but have shunned the basic principles (I've described above) and the (lack of) results show it. How many young Vic riders have acheived National titles without the benefit of travelling south to be hosted, supported and coached by the south?


Um, no, yes, yes, no, getting there, did I get them in the right order??
Actually Oyster, I have seen your good work in action right in front of me.... As in I went from being one of the fastest in the club on a 250 to struggle to be top 10 Nationals within a few months!
Shun the principles you say? Can't say I have ever done that as I was never on the committee........
I have changed that.
I also believe what the development mentors are doing this winter is a huge step in the right direction for us......

Long story short, I want to see some of the silverware remain in these parts after next nationals and will do anything in my power to help it happen...... Actually, we were pretty close with 125Gp... ;)









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[mr bucketracer]

just go bucket racing :girlfight: anyway can i run a 250 4 in the 125-250 class:banana: will be like the 1960s and the year 2000 put together:drool:

[richban]

Does this club run a junior age group series? Does it run a dedicated training/induction class, with coaches on the the track with a 3 to 1 ratio or better? Does it have streetstock (development) racing with 30 on the grid, 20 under 17 years old? Does it promote and run Young Junior Road Race? Does it regularly run articles in national magazines dedicated to this activity? does it have an elected club roles Committee, Junior Rep, and Junior RR coordinator? Does it actively contact young riders around the country to host them at their meetings, with bikes, gear, coaching and accomodation/transport supplied? Maybe yes to some of these, great to see the "scrutineering shed" base for some of this lately. But what I've described is the Canterbury model, running and successfull at least 6 years ago.
Yes, I've heard of the Vic Club, they are the "best of the rest". They have had the intent for sure, but have shunned the basic principles (I've described above) and the (lack of) results show it. How many young Vic riders have acheived National titles without the benefit of travelling south to be hosted, supported and coached by the south?

Boom. Yeah for sure, Amazing support and there are people giving heaps of time to the young ones down south. I have seen the results and have had the pleasure of racing with some of them over the years. It got me inspired to do more myself. Haven't done anything yet, but I will when I can. From what I have heard Vic are stepping it up for the young ones. Not sure about the us and them titles comment. Hamish M walked out of wellington buckets and won Protwin first crack. There are lost of people with hearts in the right place.

[oyster]

Good on Quickbuck and Richban. Mature comment and a desire get it going in the right direction. It will happen. The breakthough in Canterbury was when the senior club leadership said "yes, this is important and we will achieve our targets". No different to a business. Strategy, hard work and commitment leading to good results a few years later.

[Bert]

Does this club run a junior age group series? Does it run a dedicated training/induction class, with coaches on the the track with a 3 to 1 ratio or better? Does it have streetstock (development) racing with 30 on the grid, 20 under 17 years old? Does it promote and run Young Junior Road Race? Does it regularly run articles in national magazines dedicated to this activity? does it have an elected club roles Committee, Junior Rep, and Junior RR coordinator? Does it actively contact young riders around the country to host them at their meetings, with bikes, gear, coaching and accomodation/transport supplied? Maybe yes to some of these, great to see the "scrutineering shed" base for some of this lately. But what I've described is the Canterbury model, running and successfull at least 6 years ago.
Yes, I've heard of the Vic Club, they are the "best of the rest". They have had the intent for sure, but have shunned the basic principles (I've described above) and the (lack of) results show it. How many young Vic riders have acheived National titles without the benefit of travelling south to be hosted, supported and coached by the south?

I 100% agree with most of your comments on this topic thus far.
VIC has taken a good look at your program with the view of heading in the same direction (maybe we need to communicate between clubs a little more, taking the your experiences as a blue print). I think we all agree that the future is young riders; but the mechanisms for getting them involved is desperately needed through all clubs).
It's a little rough making comments like "shunned basic principles" in the public arena though...

There has been a total refocus on development of all new and junior riders (this year).
But as you know nothing happens over night nor hard to get traction with limited funds.
Getting a strong supportive group involved in the development is key for VIC and hopefully we will start seeing results and more successful junior riders.

[Shaun Harris]

I 100% agree with most of your comments on this topic thus far.
VIC has taken a good look at your program with the view of heading in the same direction (maybe we need to communicate between clubs a little more). It's a little rough making comments like "shunned basic principles" in the public arena though...

There has been a total refocus on development of all new and junior riders (this year).
But as you know nothing happens over night nor hard to get traction with limited funds.
Getting a strong supportive group involved in the development is key for VIC and hopefully we will start seeing results and more successful junior riders.






" I will " do anything required of me that I can do to support the VIC Club if they are heading in the direction that the sth island has gone to help develop youth!

[Bert]

" I will " do anything required of me that I can do to support the VIC Club if they are heading in the direction that the sth island has gone to help develop youth!

That's cool Sean and more than welcome to get involved as per previous invites this year.

[Shaun Harris]

That's cool Sean and more than welcome to get involved as per previous invites this year.






"Shaun" thanks Bert haha. If some one has a plan and wants me involved, email me please as I am not waisting a lot of money on fuel and family time to come down there to stand around all day talking shit though.

[Bert]

"Shaun" thanks Bert haha. If some one has a plan and wants me involved, email me please as I am not waisting a lot of money on fuel and family time to come down there to stand around all day talking shit though.

Ops Shaun..
Total agree, having a solid plan for everyone is critical.
All of us are do it at a cost to our own personal time. But all those currently involved share the vision of making things better and that's a massive step forward.

[Shaun Harris]

Ops Shaun..
Total agree, having a solid plan for everyone is critical.
All of us are do it at a cost to our own personal time. But all those currently involved share the vision of making things better and that's a massive step forward.




haha sure is Bert. I have NO spare money to waste at all hence my comment mate, and have already given enough of what I had in the past away for others to go forward. Time Fuel is fine, as long as there an agreed working programme for all involved.

[Brian d marge]

Just started working with hrc moto3 engine guy
Met him for first time last week
Lets see how much info he gives up hahhaaaa

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[Shaun Harris]

Just started working with hrc moto3 engine guy
Met him for first time last week
Lets see how much info he gives up hahhaaaa

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Piston
Spark
Petrol
Bang!



AS
sk him if I can have a job mr

[Shaun Harris]

I say it is time to get a japanese Girl racer out here to show these boys how to ride a bike well

[Brian d marge]

I reckon shes cute to hahahaha

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[Shaun Harris]

I reckon shes cute to hahahaha

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vision des neh

[steveyb]

Just started working with hrc moto3 engine guy
Met him for first time last week
Lets see how much info he gives up hahhaaaa

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Latest schematic makes new NX7 engine look a lot like SXF engine in GP cases.

PS. Working on getting that digital model of our frame to you.
Patience grasshopper.

[richban]

Just started working with hrc moto3 engine guy
Met him for first time last week
Lets see how much info he gives up hahhaaaa

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Bloody great. In your next conversation could you slide in.... ( hey what do you think the best stroke to bore ratio is for a 4 stroke 156cc single that revs to 14000rpm ).

I know someone that would be interested in that his answer.:shifty:

[mr bucketracer]

Bloody great. In your next conversation could you slide in.... ( hey what do you think the best stroke to bore ratio is for a 4 stroke 156cc single that revs to 14000rpm ).

I know someone that would be interested in that his answer.:shifty:i better not put the finshing cuts on the crank:drool: