11 September - 4 years on

[Ixion]

..
might go have a sit down on Stoddard road tonight....

Go for y'life. I'll be passing that way in the Pajero, so if Mr Motu doesn't squash you (he takes no prisoners), prolly I may.

[terbang]

Yup Sarge I like your post. I was in the air over the UK when it happened and believe me, my job as an Airline pilot has been changed forever as a result of what happpened that day.

[Biff]

Getting faintly back on the original topic, does anyone else think it odd that the French Government didn't immediately sacrifice a senior Civil Servant or Politician's career

From what I recall the then programme director (don't know his name) of the DGSE was given early retirement, and told to go and live on an island in the pacific, which he duly did. Apparently he died there of natural causes sometime in the late 80s. An independent post mortem requested by his wife was allegedly refused.

I've just googled and can't find any reference to this claim. However I was told this by a guy who I believe to me more than credible (and unfortunately French).




I humbly offer my apologies here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, Beruit etc.).

Sorry to disagree with you and your supportes on here Sage, but I cannot agree with your statement that 'it was in the defense of Muslims'. Although I accept that the US has helped out the rest of the world on numerous occasions.

I know of no instances (though happy to stand corrected) throughout military history when the US has decided to jump to help Muslims because they were Muslims. They've done it for 'other' reasons. And the US most definitely made no such decision in helping out in the Balkans (which includes Kosovo) simply in an attempt to defend Muslims. Indeed the areas in the Balkans (predominantly in Kosovo) where the Muslims lived was under the control of the Spanish, Germans and Portuguese during the conflict (referred to as MNBS). The only real involvement the US had in this region is best forgotten (accidents happen to school buses painted a 'greenish purple colour' (?!). Although the US is driving the political will for Kosovo to become ( a non-Muslim governed) independant state/principality/country (history and the pople of the region will decide).

The real reason why the US helped SHAPE out during this conflict? Because they had a responsibility to NATO perhaps? Whatever the genuine reason, their involvment helped to bring a swift resolution to the problems in the region.

In your post you categorize all Muslims and Arabs as being the same, having the same education, being Arabs, (dont forget the rest of the world, where most Muslims live) and having the same upbringing etc is obviously incorrect. But I know you know this. You make a dangerous generalization about their education, living conditions, Arabs (whatever your definition of an Arab is), beliefs etc. And it’s because of opinions like this that we’re in the shit that we are today.

I thank the US for all the positive assistance they've given the wider world over the years. But I blame them (the current administration) for the fact that I feel we now live in a far more dangerous world than before the invasion of Iraq. And the world may continue to become a more dangerous place for the next 100 + years. For that I offer no thanks whatsoever to the false democracy which now exists in the US.

Don't blame the US - blame their president. A lying, deceitful, manipulating fruit cake. Although it's more likely the case that it's his father and the neo-conservatives that really run the country.

Oh – and as for Iran. A wonderful place and home to tens of millions of peaceful and loving people. I love it there. Unfortunately fanatics run the country, and they feed the press BS in an attempt to gain the support of their public. Sound familiar?

RIP to all those who have died at the hand of political and religious fruitcakes the world over.

[gijoe1313]

I hear the cost of the twin towers is taking its toll on the original rescuers, apparantly the toxins released from the burning and other noxious materials has caused the same distressing effects.

More everyday people succumbing to the original act of terrorism, as usual innocents (from all sides) pay for the cock-ups of their respective (mis)leaders.

@Virago : heck, I can't even work out which year I'm in most of the times! But yeah, we're a whole day ahead out this way, all I could remember was the broadcasts from the US networks saying over and over "its the 11th" guess it kinda stuck.

[SARGE]

Sorry to disagree with you and your supportes on here Sage, but I cannot agree with your statement that 'it was in the defense of Muslims'. Although I accept that the US has helped out the rest of the world on numerous occasions.
I know of no instances (though happy to stand corrected) throughout military history when the US has decided to jump to help Muslims because they were Muslims. They've done it for 'other' reasons. And the US most definitely made no such decision in helping out in the Balkans (which includes Kosovo) simply in an attempt to defend Muslims. Indeed the areas in the Balkans (predominantly in Kosovo) where the Muslims lived was under the control of the Spanish, Germans and Portuguese during the conflict (referred to as MNBS). The only real involvement the US had in this region is best forgotten (accidents happen to school buses painted a 'greenish purple colour' (?!). Although the US is driving the political will for Kosovo to become ( a non-Muslim governed) independant state/principality/country (history and the pople of the region will decide).

god.. where do i start??...

ok Biff.. you know i have the greatest respect for you so here goes ..

the UNMNF in Beruit in 1983.. we were there at the request of the UN to support Hezbollah and the PLO because until the point we go there , the Isrealis were dishing out a hiding to them.. no we didnt jump to their aid but we didnt refuse either ...

my company CO ..Captain Charles Johnson faced down an Isrealli Tank patrol and threatened to shoot the commander if he did not withdraw.. ( Google Capt Johnson Company L to read the story..)

thats only ONE instance ..



In your post you categorize all Muslims and Arabs as being the same, having the same education, being Arabs, (dont forget the rest of the world, where most Muslims live) and having the same upbringing etc is obviously incorrect. But I know you know this. You make a dangerous generalization about their education, living conditions, Arabs (whatever your definition of an Arab is), beliefs etc. And it’s because of opinions like this that we’re in the shit that we are today.

i disagree Biff.. but let me qualify my statements... i dont have a problem with ordinary Muslim/ Arabs..my unit regularly played Gridiron with some of the local Lebanese guys .went fishing with a few of them also.. some of the girls would bring us home made grub quite often...i have more than once given up my MRE desserts to local Muslim kids .. we used to toss cans of Coke to them as well.. i really like the Lebanese people as a whole ..

back on topic now .... lets say your father doesnt like Bill Collectors ..every night at the dinner table .. he rants on about how evil they are and how they are responsible for all the worlds ills.. now after 20 years of hearing this evrey night at the dinner table .. you have a definate impression of a bill collector and it probably WONT be positive ..

now young Mohammed in Iraq has a father/ uncle/ brother who hates " infidels".. he hears them every night ranting on about how the US is the root of all evil and should be destroyed along with Isreal..

you see where im going here ??




I thank the US for all the positive assistance they've given the wider world over the years. But I blame them (the current administration) for the fact that I feel we now live in a far more dangerous world than before the invasion of Iraq. And the world may continue to become a more dangerous place for the next 100 + years. For that I offer no thanks whatsoever to the false democracy which now exists in the US.

Don't blame the US - blame their president. A lying, deceitful, manipulating fruit cake. Although it's more likely the case that it's his father and the neo-conservatives that really run the country.

please Biff.. read America's Secret War (http://www.americassecretwar.com/index.html).. this goes WAY further back than the Neo Cons.. this goes back to the end of WW2 and the Shah of Iran.. the History Channel just had a GREAT doco on the rise of the Ayatollah Khomeni and the New Caliphate





Oh – and as for Iran. A wonderful place and home to tens of millions of peaceful and loving people. I love it there. Unfortunately fanatics run the country, and they feed the press BS in an attempt to gain the support of their public. Sound familiar?

RIP to all those who have died at the hand of political and religious fruitcakes the world over.

green awarded bro... i'm shouting you a beer and an argument next time you are in the big smoke

[marty]

i was working night shift when it happened - the whole place just stopped. watched in disbeleif. regardless of what really happened in washington, or in the paddock in pensylvania, the images of an aeroplane flying at 600mph into the side of the 2nd tower is oe of those things that will always stay with me.

[scracha]

i was working night shift when it happened - the whole place just stopped. watched in disbeleif. regardless of what really happened in washington, or in the paddock in pensylvania, the images of an aeroplane flying at 600mph into the side of the 2nd tower is oe of those things that will always stay with me.

Strolled into a pub with the girlfriend in a wee village in Bregtone, France just after lunch. "un movie we" asked I in my best pigeon French. Definately unforgettable. Sorry to say it but I wish us Anglo-saxon's had learn't more from it.

[Lou Girardin]

Dear God, is this thread going to be resurrected every Sept?
Do the Yanks not realise they do the equivalent of another virtual attack every time they carry on about this. They're doing Bin Ladens job for him, keeping their own country in a state of chronic fear.
Then you've got Cheney claiming that the war on terror is working because they haven't had an attack in 5 years. Can someone tell the neo-con retard that they hadn't had an attack on the US in the previous 60 years!
2900 dead innocent Yanks as against 75,000 dead innocent Iraqis, I think the debt has been more than paid. Albeit by the wrong people.

[SARGE]

Dear God, is this thread going to be resurrected every Sept?
Do the Yanks not realise they do the equivalent of another virtual attack every time they carry on about this. They're doing Bin Ladens job for him, keeping their own country in a state of chronic fear.
Then you've got Cheney claiming that the war on terror is working because they haven't had an attack in 5 years. Can someone tell the neo-con retard that they hadn't had an attack on the US in the previous 60 years!
2900 dead innocent Yanks as against 75,000 dead innocent Iraqis, I think the debt has been more than paid. Albeit by the wrong people.



glad to have ya back bro... missed you all day on here ..lol..


i can get pissed again and start another thread if ya like ...

customer service ya unnerstand ..

[Biff]

I think we kinda agree, in general terms Sarge.

Huge rispek to the US forces who were targeted during their days in Beirut. Snot nice sometimes being in the middle of hell. Bits of friends all over the place. And wondering what the fuck kind of foreign policy decision got you into this hole in the first place. Allegedly.

I don't believe you meant what you said about the Arabs/Muslims by generalising, hence the caveat ('I know you don't..'). I was using your rhetoric as an example of the generalisation some freako fucktard extremists use as an excuse for their barbaric actions. And the virgins of course.

I know exactly where you're coming from.

The secret war - yup agree. There's a long history of international fiddling within the US administration, and friends. And sure Khomeni scared the crap out of Washington. But Bush scares the crap out me.

His entire administration stinks. And as for the neocons, all (?) of which just so happen to be Jewish (Disclaimer: these people are individuals. They do not represent the entire Jewish community. Hopefully) - bent. Crooked. Dangerous. They're more than 'advisers' - they've got their own agenda. And it's an anti-Arab (not necessarily Muslim), forced democracy agenda.

New World Order ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy%29)




The first beer is on me. You bring the smoke. :yes:

[SARGE]

I think we kinda agree, in general terms Sarge.

Huge rispek to the US forces who were targeted during their days in Beirut.

I don't believe you meant what you said about the Arabs/Muslims by generalising, hence the caveat ('I know you don't..'). I was using your rhetoric as an example of the generalisation some freako fucktard extremists use as an excuse for their barbaric actions. And the virgins of course.

I know exactly where you're coming from.

The secret war - yup agree. There's a long history of international fiddling within the US administration, and friends. And sure Khomeni scared the crap out of Washington. But Bush scares the crap out me.

His entire administration stinks. And as for the neocons, all (?) of which just so happen to be Jewish (Disclaimer: these people are individuals. They do not represent the entire Jewish community. Hopefully) - bent. Crooked. Dangerous. They're more than 'advisers' - they've got their own agenda. And it's an anti-Arab (not necessarily Muslim), forced democracy agenda.

New World Order ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy%29)




The first beer is on me. You bring the smoke. :yes:

if you look at GW's cabinet .. then you compare it with Daddy Bush's cabinet .. you will notice some eerie similarities..

GW scares me too man ..but at the end of the day .. i was and am one of "the Presidents Own".. i dont respect the man , but i do respect the office ..

[slowpoke]

GW scares me too man ..but at the end of the day .. i was and am one of "the Presidents Own".. i dont respect the man , but i do respect the office ..

I just don't understand or condone this attitude. Surely anyone with a free will assesses a situation and responds accordingly regardless of the people and/or offices involved. This whole attitude is almost the reverse of how it should be: the people have proved their allegiance by voting him into power therefore if anyone needs to show respect it is the President!

Blind obedience too often translates to "I was just following orders..." and we've all heard those words in relation to various military travesties.

People like Sarge will breathe their last breath, take their last step and lay down their lives for the President of the United States....all the President has to do in return is prove he is worthy of that sacrifice. Unfortunately he has already proved he is not.

[SARGE]

People like Sarge will breathe their last breath, take their last step and lay down their lives for the President of the United States....all the President has to do in return is prove he is worthy of that sacrifice. Unfortunately he has already proved he is not.

i think you misunderstand me Slowpoke ... i would NOT take my last step for the President of the United States ..

i WOULD for the United States..it is my home and yes, i would die to protect it from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.. that INCLUDES GW if need be ..

thats the difference..

the American Constitution gives Americans the Right to keep and bear arms ..


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

THAT my friend, is in case , gawd forbid, some dictatorial motherfucker takes over.. it is every Americans duty to take it back..

300 million people in the US own over 200 million guns ..

combine that with the overabundance of convertables, pickup trucks, home made pipe bombs and crazy motherfuckers like me with a few screws loose....

you got Iraq to the Nth power..

[Waylander]

i think you misunderstand me Slowpoke ... i would NOT take my last step for the President of the United States ..

i WOULD for the United States..it is my home and yes, i would die to protect it from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.. that INCLUDES GW if need be ..

thats the difference..

the American Constitution gives Americans the Right to keep and bear arms ..


THAT my friend, is in case , gawd forbid, some dictatorial motherfucker takes over.. it is every Americans duty to take it back..

300 million people in the US own over 200 million guns ..

combine that with the overabundance of convertables, pickup trucks, home made pipe bombs and crazy motherfuckers like me with a few screws loose....

you got Iraq to the Nth power..
Problem is, most back there are too much like sheep to do anything like that. And sadly the police, secret service, army, navy, air force and marines will be standing in their way cause of the brainwashing they have to follow orders.

But one or two might prove sly enough to work thier way through... You still have your uniform Sarge? I have a plan...

[SARGE]

Problem is, most back there are too much like sheep to do anything like that. And sadly the police, secret service, army, navy, air force and marines will be standing in their way cause of the brainwashing they have to follow orders.

But one or two might prove sly enough to work thier way through... You still have your uniform Sarge? I have a plan...

want i should post a picture of it ?? no way in hell it will ever fit me again..might fit you but you look like a skinny chick..

[Waylander]

want i should post a picture of it ?? no way in hell it will ever fit me again..might fit you but you look like a skinny chick..
I think I could pull it off. I'de be a bit worried about the stains you left in it though.... Those yellow ones might carry soimethings I don't want.:shit:

[SARGE]

I think I could pull it off. I'de be a bit worried about the stains you left in it though.... Those yellow ones might carry soimethings I don't want.:shit:

the stains used to be red but 20 years have faded them...

[SARGE]

is anyone watching this dipshit on History Channel right now ..Loose Change 2 (http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html)?


his voice makes me want to kill him with a spoon

smarmy little douchbag

[BigTex]

Great post Sarge. My mother was living 70 blocks away and changed her appointment at a hotel 5 blocks away 3 days before. She watched from her apartment top and called my dad and I as we were running late to school. We watched the coverage almost all day at school. Couldn't believe what I was seeing and how everything just came to a stand still.

Regardless of whether you like the US or not... this was a horrific event. :(

[SARGE]

Give them a break, they're radio DJs - they can't be expected to think...

hey now ..i did the same job for 20+ years..

the new breed of "announcers" just plain pisses me off.. they always have the fat guy in the back forcing a laugh

the sound you are hearing is 1 million CD's being pushed into the car stereo...

[terbang]

Took this shot at Ground Zero (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25210&d=1138764360) a couple of years back. The photo summs up a lot of the mis-information that has gone on over the years since the attack. Visiting the site in NY is certainly a sobering experience.

[SARGE]

Took this shot at Ground Zero (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25210&d=1138764360) a couple of years back. The photo summs up a lot of the mis-information that has gone on over the years since the attack. Visiting the site in NY is certainly a sobering experience.

Ground Zero has become a "Wailing Wall" if you would .. it is a place where Americans can get in touch with themselves and thier frustrations over the situation.. Saddam is just the latest..


bringing that up.. i have a few questions for some of the nay-sayers ..



do you think Saddam Hussein is/was evil?

yes i understand that the US was largely responsible for arming him to fight the Iranians in the 80's.. i will go into the Geo-Politics of that at a later date


was it a good thing that he and his sons were removed from power in Iraq?

his sons Uday and Qusay (http://www.desert-voice.net/saddam_sons.htm) were murderous thugs.. would have been much worse if THEY got into power..apparently , Udey (the more violent one) was working on a plot to remove Saddam with extreme prejudice


do you think that, in the long run, the Iraqi people will be better off without him?


im talking in the future.. obviously not now with the 2 muslim factions engaged in a civil war with each other ..

[Wolf]

GW scares me too man ..but at the end of the day .. i was and am one of "the Presidents Own".. i dont respect the man , but i do respect the office ..
If I had enough respect for the "Office", I'd haul GW out of it and lynch him in the street as a traitor to the country. So far he's killed more Americans than the terrorists have.

[SARGE]

If I had enough respect for the "Office", I'd haul GW out of it and lynch him in the street as a traitor to the country. So far he's killed more Americans than the terrorists have.

very true Wolf .. but he's not going to be in office much longer , and the next President will be saddled with this war .. i need to write up something that explains the big picture i think .. i will work on that this week..

[Wolf]

do you think Saddam Hussein is/was evil?

yes i understand that the US was largely responsible for arming him to fight the Iranians in the 80's.. i will go into the Geo-Politics of that at a later date


was it a good thing that he and his sons were removed from power in Iraq?

his sons Uday and Qusay (http://www.desert-voice.net/saddam_sons.htm) were murderous thugs.. would have been much worse if THEY got into power..apparently , Udey (the more violent one) was working on a plot to remove Saddam with extreme prejudice

Hussein and his sons were monsters.

Nietsche said "when hunting monsters, take care you do not become one yourself" - doesn't apply to Bush as he was already a monster before he went after Hussein.

GW, Saddam, Adolf Hitler, Josef Mengele, Adi Amin - they are all cut from the same bolt of cloth and the world is improved without them.

GW has shown as little regard for the lives of his people as Hussein ever showed. The difference is: Husssein is neutralised, GW is still in power and will still enjoy privileged treatment and be able to exert influence on world affairs after his tenure ends. Most likely, his inbred whelps will also take the political track like good ol' paw and gran'paw and the evil will continue for future generations.

The survivors of this war should neutralise GW and his progeny for the good of humankind - selective eugenic purification applied to that family line would be good.

I would also recommend beheading the corpses and stuffing them with holy wafers and garlic - just to be on the safe side. Unmarked graves at a deserted crossroads would also be beneficial.

That, or the bottom of a "longdrop" toilet...

[padre]

"do you think Saddam Hussein is/was evil?"

Sarge how do you define EVIL. I'll tell ya. Its the opposite to LIVE. Its summat that wreaks of def. Saddy sure had lots death on his score card.
And was no doubt not too morally inclined. His choice was power, power means stomping on opposition. Like a set of scales, if he weakens the other side his ratings go up and up. He had a hard heart. It can be broken as we have seen. Failure broke it. And the people are worse off so they say.

[slowpoke]

Ground Zero has become a "Wailing Wall" if you would .. it is a place where Americans can get in touch with themselves and thier frustrations over the situation.. Saddam is just the latest..


bringing that up.. i have a few questions for some of the nay-sayers ..



do you think Saddam Hussein is/was evil?

yes i understand that the US was largely responsible for arming him to fight the Iranians in the 80's.. i will go into the Geo-Politics of that at a later date


was it a good thing that he and his sons were removed from power in Iraq?

his sons Uday and Qusay (http://www.desert-voice.net/saddam_sons.htm) were murderous thugs.. would have been much worse if THEY got into power..apparently , Udey (the more violent one) was working on a plot to remove Saddam with extreme prejudice


do you think that, in the long run, the Iraqi people will be better off without him?


im talking in the future.. obviously not now with the 2 muslim factions engaged in a civil war with each other ..




Wailing wall? Get in touch with themselves? Instead of wallowing in self pity and wreaking death and destruction in totally uninvolved countries the American people should ask themselves WHY this happened. Understanding your enemy is the key to beating him.

Sarge, each of your questions could equally be applied to George Bush, Rumsfeld and co with very similar answers. Given that the US has got a similar justification fto be invaded "for it's own good", would you take it lying down? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Street Gerbil]

Well put, Sarge. :rockon:

[Wolf]

I think slowpoke has a good idea, we could invade the USA, depose and execute the monsters like Bush and Rumsfield, disband the armed forces and destroy their stock-piles of WMD to curb the USA's capacity to wage war. We could put an interim government in place until such time as we can set up straight elections not rigged by big business (though the destruction of the weapons factories and the imprisonment or execution of the manufacturers will certainly help get a less biased government). Remove all US troops from overseas so that they are no longer being slaughtered and remove the spy networks that enslave the population back in the States. Anyone even remotely connected to the CIA will be executed and their children castrated so they cannot breed any more defective "spook genes" into the population. Hunt down that bitch who posed for those photos tormenting POWs and execute her and the parents that spawned her.

"Evil" is not limited to Hussein and his kids. Bush snr is a monster, his son even more so - where's the difference between the Bush family and the Hussein family (aside from the fact no one has yet killed Bush jr)?

[Michaelt]

Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical problems about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill this douchebag and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?

Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pencil-neck dickheads with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet.

and Discovery WOULD NOT BE BROADCASTING IT!.. this is Pro Wrestling of the conspiracy world..

I can picture the Hippy morons posting now:

"BUT SARGE, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT!."

Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's shit-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision."

Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history...with military precision no less...is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some tech-school losers within days, if not minutes of its creation?

The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to 86 this kid long before his video ever became popular?

anyone got a Tui?

With all respect, this argument seems a bit weak to me.

Regardless of whether the conspiracy theory is correct, which it's fairly obviously not, why would the US government care about some nutcase living in his parents basement or an abandoned missile silo somewhere in Arizona?

Taking these people out wouldn't achieve anything, as noone believes them anyway, they probably weaken the support of these conspiracy theories overall and it's easier just to leave them.

I do agree with most of your sentiments stated in this thread though.

Michael

[SARGE]

With all respect, this argument seems a bit weak to me.

Regardless of whether the conspiracy theory is correct, which it's fairly obviously not, why would the US government care about some nutcase living in his parents basement or an abandoned missile silo somewhere in Arizona?

Taking these people out wouldn't achieve anything, as noone believes them anyway, they probably weaken the support of these conspiracy theories overall and it's easier just to leave them.

I do agree with most of your sentiments stated in this thread though.

Michael

i dont know man .. maybe im just paranoid ..


but keep this in mind .. just because you're accused of being paranoid does not mean no one is out to get you...

i like to call it a 'heightened state of alertness..."

[Lou Girardin]

i like to call it a 'heightened state of alertness..."

And you come from the United States of Heightened Alertness.

Paranoia is very exhausting, they need to go back to enjoying life.
After all, does an Elephant worry about flea bites?

[98tls]

very true Wolf .. but he's not going to be in office much longer , and the next President will be saddled with this war .. i need to write up something that explains the big picture i think .. i will work on that this week..
Do it sarge.....i would be interested in your opinion....the thing is so many cant see or chose not to see the big picture....be interested on your take of it all...and the big picture as you see it...dont promise to agree with it all but interested nonetheless....

[SARGE]

Do it sarge.....i would be interested in your opinion....the thing is so many cant see or chose not to see the big picture....be interested on your take of it all...and the big picture as you see it...dont promise to agree with it all but interested nonetheless....

yea... im onto it.. gimme a few days and i'll upload a word doc..

[98tls]

Good stuff....am no expert but have over the years spent mucho time researching warfare/politics of....bought on as a youngster as my family are German and for reasons still unknowen i found it all immensely interesting.

[SARGE]

yearly bump

[marty]

or 3 yearly as the case may be...

[SARGE]

or 3 yearly as the case may be...

yea .. I was incognito for a while

[short-circuit]

yea... im onto it.. gimme a few days and i'll upload a word doc..

hahaha - I'm keen on a read of this too. Looking at the date though I'm guessing you've written a book and are waiting for it to be published?

[wbks]

If I had enough respect for the "Office", I'd haul GW out of it and lynch him in the street as a traitor to the country. So far he's killed more Americans than the terrorists have.

very true Wolf .. but he's not going to be in office much longer , and the next President will be saddled with this war .. i need to write up something that explains the big picture i think .. i will work on that this week..Is this about the theory that 9/11 was a US Govt. planned attack? Isn't it practically offensive these days to say you think it was a conspiracy?

[Katman]

Yawn. <hgvhgvhjv>

[pete376403]

There is a lot to be outraged about -
http://www.truthout.org/091009R?n

[short-circuit]

There is a lot to be outraged about -
http://www.truthout.org/091009R?n

And the American people who elected him for a further two terms are complicit through either their complete ignorance/stupidity or callousness

[pete376403]

Further one term. Pres can only have two terms max. Fortunately Dubya 'n' co didn't get to change that part of the law, despite ignoring most of the other law they were sworn to uphold.

[short-circuit]

Further one term. Pres can only have two terms max. Fortunately Dubya 'n' co didn't get to change that part of the law, despite ignoring most of the other law they were sworn to uphold.

You're right of course - it just seemed endless

[Gareth51]

20 pages,took some reading,well done SARGE for the original post

[normajeane]

In my time I've known Americans to be the only nation that blows their own trumpet so amazingly loud, and they all do!

America would be a fabulous place if the people were a little more conservative like your average NZ'er.




I been there and the average American you do not see here so much, just the loud, old, sick, person who happens to decide to come and pick their toe jamb and vent their shitty liver.:sick:
Iloved the ordinary everyday friendly little town american who I met and they spoke so well of NZ.:Punk:

[Katman]

And the American people who elected him for a further two terms are complicit through either their complete ignorance/stupidity or callousness

Someone's gunna 'Marine' your ass!

[wbks]

Maybe I'm just in a different mood tonight, but those are pretty disgusting, and I'm not sure how (considering it was probably an american that made those) you would stomach making light of something like that. But maybe I just need a sense of humor...

[SARGE]

hahaha ... funny fuckers .. eh?..


thats just great fags .. 3000 people die and its fucking funny... just fucking great .. clean green fucking noo zeelund crybaby backwards assed country-fucks .. heres an idea.. get the fuck out into the world and see just how fucking real it is outside the internet and away from the tourist traps.. none of you fucks would last 30 seconds in my world.....


remind me to call you cunts the day your mom dies and laugh my ass off..


immature little dickheads


PRAY i never meet any one of you douchebags face to face

[SARGE]

Is this about the theory that 9/11 was a US Govt. planned attack? Isn't it practically offensive these days to say you think it was a conspiracy?

i dont think it was a conspiracy .. maybe some complicity but im talking BIG picture Geo-Political stuff.. still working on it

[wbks]

hahaha ... funny fuckers .. eh?..


thats just great fags .. 3000 people die and its fucking funny... just fucking great .. clean green fucking noo zeelund crybaby backwards assed country-fucks .. heres an idea.. get the fuck out into the world and see just how fucking real it is outside the internet and away from the tourist traps.. none of you fucks would last 30 seconds in my world.....


remind me to call you cunts the day your mom dies and laugh my ass off..


immature little dickheads


PRAY i never meet any one of you douchebags face to face+1


Lighten up, Francis.Don't you think it's crossing a line a little bit making jokes out of that?

[boman]

+1

Don't you think it's crossing a line a little bit making jokes out of that?

I agree. Not very funny at all.

[wbks]

i dont think it was a conspiracy .. maybe some complicity but im talking BIG picture Geo-Political stuff.. still working on it Referring to the claim that Pakistan helped fund it to provoke an invasion of Afghanistan, and eventually a pro west govt for TAP?

[Dave Lobster]

hahaha ... funny fuckers .. eh?..
thats just great fags .. 3000 people die and its fucking funny... just fucking great ..



American money donated to the Provisional IRA killed more people than that.

It dried up completely the day after the mudslums crashed their planes.

I'd say that's a pretty good result if you've got fed up with your mates getting killed by catholic terrorists.




PRAY i never meet any one of you douchebags face to face


Pray.. to the Fly Spagetti Monster? Or another imaginary friend.

[wbks]

i dont think it was a conspiracy .. maybe some complicity but im talking BIG picture Geo-Political stuff.. still working on it


American money donated to the Provisional IRA killed more people than that.

It dried up completely the day after the mudslums crashed their planes.

I'd say that's a pretty good result if you've got fed up with your mates getting killed by catholic terrorists.




So thousands of people dying is funny because Irish terrorists also kill people over in the UK? Sorry, there's no logic to be seen in that.

Pray.. to the Fly Spagetti Monster? Or another imaginary friend.It was a figure of speech. Work that one out with your brain which seems to be just as mythological as god

[Dave Lobster]

So thousands of people dying is funny because Irish terrorists also kill people over in the UK? Sorry, there's no logic to be seen in that.


No, not funny. Ironic that it took something to happen to the americans before they realised that funding terrorism isn't a good thing. Just remind me whose money it was that put the Taliban on the map..

Just in case you missed it the first twice.. ONCE THE AMERICANS STOPPED FUNDING THE IRA, THEY STOPPED KILLING PEOPLE. And it took 3,000 americans to get killed for this to happen.

[wbks]

No, not funny. Ironic that it took something to happen to the americans before they realised that funding terrorism isn't a good thing. Just remind me whose money it was that put the Taliban on the map..

Just in case you missed it the first twice.. ONCE THE AMERICANS STOPPED FUNDING THE IRA, THEY STOPPED KILLING PEOPLE. And it took 3,000 americans to get killed for this to happen.Yes the US funded the Taliban. No, it isn't Ironic, because I really doubt that the average American would think the IRA were being funded with their money, or ever think funding terrorism is a good thing. Missed the first twice? Huh? I personally don't think either circumstances are ironic or justified

[Dave Lobster]

Yes the US funded the Taliban. No, it isn't Ironic, because I really doubt that the average American would think the IRA were being funded with their money, or ever think funding terrorism is a good thing.

Yet still they handed their money over to the cause in irish bars around the country. The average american can't even name a country beginning with U, let alone think what funding terrorism is all about.

[wbks]

Somehow I don't think the average Irish American handing a few dollars to "the cause" would be of any impact, and if they were donating anything significant enough to have any effect then they sure as hell were not the average american that you seem to almost justify killing in the twin towers. Are you talking about arms deals between the IRA and Irish mafia style gangs? That wasn't the US funding terrorism, that was Irish mafia style gangs making money.

[Dave Lobster]

Somehow I don't think the average Irish American handing a few dollars to "the cause" would be of any impact,.

Are you SERIOUS???

[SARGE]

Pray.. to the Fly Spagetti Monster? Or another imaginary friend.

to whatever imaginary friend they think will stop me from stomping a mudhole in their asses

there are very few things on this rock that rile me up .. they just crossed that line


i have 2 nephews in Afghanistan.. both wounded in combat more than once .. my lovely niece is serving on board a carrier in the Gulf and my son in the US is 11 months away from being eligible to ship out ...all of them proudly serve and re-enlist

i, myself have felt the heat of combat on more than one occasion. I gave up an eye, live with a steel plate under most of my face and lost nearly 300 friends in doing so..i personally have seen the results of a truck bomb, a 40mm grenade, a .50 cal sniper rifle and a Ka-Bar to the kidney on a human body.. i HAVE ended lives and taken fathers away from their families...but i did it face to face at close range , not sweet talking some gullible douchebag into strapping on a boom-vest in order to meet 72 transvestite virgins and running into a market filled with women and children.. ...i have also tried to reassemble a jigsaw puzzle that used to be a childhood friend and have faced his young widow to tell her that the father of her children was blown to pieces by a cowardly act by Hezbollah and held her as she wailed



compare this to 90% of you internet warriors who think a rainy sunday is the end of the world...

3 words for ya ..


go fuck yourselves

[wbks]

Are you SERIOUS???Let me put it out there more plainly: A few dollars into a glass jar in every Irish bar is the US isn't enough to fund a serious group (maybe we have different opinions of "impact"). It's pretty obvious that it would take more than that, more than the average american can afford. A minority of an ethnic minority helping fund the IRA hardly means that the US was funding it

[Dave Lobster]

Let me put it out there more plainly: A few dollars into a glass jar in every Irish bar is the US isn't enough to fund a serious group (maybe we have different opinions of "impact"). It's pretty obvious that it would take more than that, more than the average american can afford. A minority of an ethnic minority helping fund the IRA hardly means that the US was funding it

Rubbish. A few dollars buys an armalite. A few more a box of rounds. A few more a ship full of arms from Libya. A group doesn't need heaps of cash. It doesn't need heaps of organising. It doesn't need computers and whatnot. All it needs is a handful of guns and a cause. Once it has those, it can go shooting/kneecapping/maiming people. It can make bombs and blow people up.
These funds did come from a minority of an ethnic minority group within the US. The bombings on September the 11th stopped that.

[wbks]

Like I said, we obviously have different opinions of the word; "impact", but I see what you're saying and I can't deny that. All I'm saying is that you can't really categorize the US as not realizing its bad to fund terrorism just because (as you agreed with) a (counterproductive) minority helped fund the IRA.

[SARGE]

Rubbish. A few dollars buys an armalite. A few more a box of rounds. A few more a ship full of arms from Libya. A group doesn't need heaps of cash. It doesn't need heaps of organising. It doesn't need computers and whatnot. All it needs is a handful of guns and a cause. Once it has those, it can go shooting/kneecapping/maiming people. It can make bombs and blow people up.
These funds did come from a minority of an ethnic minority group within the US. The bombings on September the 11th stopped that.

the bombings didnt stop that ... it was merely the catalyst ...the Govt just snapped down on the money trail and made it very hard for anyone to finance 'terrorism' ..


look around though .. tell me cash isnt flowing through UNZUD :bash: .. your $$ is being piped into Pakistan, Afghanistan and etc

[Dave Lobster]

look around though .. tell me cash isnt flowing through UNZUD :bash: .. your $$ is being piped into Pakistan, Afghanistan and etc

Of course it is.. I look forward to Mt Roskill being the victim of the next 'shock and awe'. :)

[SpankMe]

Don't you think it's crossing a line a little bit making jokes out of that?

So who the fuck gets to decide where the line is?? You can make fun of anything, or you make fun of nothing!

Mods feel free to split off the joke posts into a separate thread/forum.

[wbks]

So who the fuck gets to decide where the line is?? You can make fun of anything, or you make fun of nothing!There is no line, but in my own mind (and a lot of others) there is a degree of respect that should be had for the people who died that day. That's just my opinion (which is all anyone really has) of where the line is, and I'll speak (or type) or act the way my opinion determines (just like people making jokes about 9/11 do). By your logic: Who the fuck are you to say thats not where the line is? And to the fuckwit who just red repped me calling me an idiot for asking that just because spankme owns the site - He doesn't own morality, does he? Fuckwit


the bombings didnt stop that ... it was merely the catalyst ...the Govt just snapped down on the money trail and made it very hard for anyone to finance 'terrorism' ..


look around though .. tell me cash isnt flowing through UNZUD :bash: .. your $$ is being piped into Pakistan, Afghanistan and etcWell it's pretty high profile, I don't think anyone would deny it

[Dean]

hahaha ... funny fuckers .. eh?..


thats just great fags .. 3000 people die and its fucking funny... just fucking great .. clean green fucking noo zeelund crybaby backwards assed country-fucks .. heres an idea.. get the fuck out into the world and see just how fucking real it is outside the internet and away from the tourist traps.. none of you fucks would last 30 seconds in my world.....


remind me to call you cunts the day your mom dies and laugh my ass off..


immature little dickheads


PRAY i never meet any one of you douchebags face to face

+1 SARGE
None of the people posting those pictures could last through what you have been through, neither me or anyone else on this site for that matter. I commend you SARGE for hanging in there throughout everything and creating awesome posts to read you're an inspiration, look forward to meeting you when I get my full.

[Nasty]

+1 SARGE
None of the people posting those pictures could last through what you have been through, neither me or anyone else on this site for that matter. I commend you SARGE for hanging in there throughout everything and creating awesome posts to read you're an inspiration, look forward to meeting you when I get my full.


http://thewvsr.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kiss-ass.jpg

Agree with Dean Sarge - the pathetic waste of bandwidth on pathetic jokes - that really are not that smart is just that ... a waste. Its a pity that those making the jokes don't realise that the deaths and residual from those deaths caused by this continues on. That there are kids without parents and many widows and widowers made that way through this tradgedy. Thing is that no matter how offensive they get their jollies doing that ... that is their choice - once they grow up - and i know some won't - they may realise that tradgedies like this are real - and that the legacy is not their stupid behaviour - but that which came from the heroes on the day.

[SARGE]

So who the fuck gets to decide where the line is?? You can make fun of anything, or you make fun of nothing!

Mods feel free to split off the joke posts into a separate thread/forum.

I Agree with this ..FFS..myself and many other have paid the price so douchebags can go on the internet and speak freely..... i also reserve that right for future reference :eek5:


+1 SARGE
None of the people posting those pictures could last through what you have been through, neither me or anyone else on this site for that matter. I commend you SARGE for hanging in there throughout everything and creating awesome posts to read you're an inspiration, look forward to meeting you when I get my full.

i aint trying to be no-ones hero, inspiration or fucking role model

[Dean]

i aint trying to be no-ones hero, inspiration or fucking role model

No need to try, some here have lost loved ones and find it hard to cope, after all you have been through and sacrifices you made somehow you seem to remain sunny side up. Call it what you will, deny it, but I think thats what makes you a inspiration to me anyways.

[short-circuit]

No need to try, some here have lost loved ones and find it hard to cope, after all you have been through and sacrifices you made somehow you seem to remain sunny side up. Call it what you will, deny it, but I think thats what makes you a inspiration to me anyways.

Aw....ain't that cute

[Street Gerbil]

hahaha ... funny fuckers .. eh?..


thats just great fags .. 3000 people die and its fucking funny... just fucking great .. clean green fucking noo zeelund crybaby backwards assed country-fucks .. heres an idea.. get the fuck out into the world and see just how fucking real it is outside the internet and away from the tourist traps.. none of you fucks would last 30 seconds in my world.....


remind me to call you cunts the day your mom dies and laugh my ass off..


immature little dickheads

PRAY i never meet any one of you douchebags face to face

+1

Growing up on a tiny isolated island at the far end of the Pacific and being subjected to extreme left bias of local mass media creates a certain mentality based on a lifetime of ignorance. But then again, I've seen same mentality in many pre-9/11 Americans, and what's far more worrisome - in quite a few post 9/11.

[SARGE]

+1

Growing up on a tiny isolated island at the far end of the Pacific and being subjected to extreme left bias of local mass media creates a certain mentality based on a lifetime of ignorance. But then again, I've seen same mentality in many pre-9/11 Americans, and what's far more worrisome - in quite a few post 9/11.

hey .. but Obama is Hope and Change ...

i HOPE i keep my job and ' Brother can you spare some CHANGE?'

my home town back in the States used to be a HUGE General Motors hub ( one of the biggest outside Detroit)

a year ago GM pulled stakes and left .. 33% unemployment from the top down in my town.. 1/3 of the houses in my sisters neighborhood are for sale or abandoned...


but the war is all about oil and profit

[R6_kid]

+1 SARGE
None of the people posting those pictures could last through what you have been through, neither me or anyone else on this site for that matter.

Whatever, they just spent the whole weekend playing COD4, now they are all in bed recovering.

[Blackshear]

Whatever, they just spent the whole weekend playing COD4, now they are all in bed recovering.

What is this bed you speak of?
Powernaps at 8 AM are where it's at.