New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

[sidecar bob]

But I'll bet her flange is a bit sloppy and worn out hence her dislike of younger better looking tighter ling chow pussy competition.

I didn't actually get to see her flange, so I couldn't really say for sure.

[jasonu]

I see why you're a Trump supporter.

How is that?

[Crasherfromwayback]

How is that?

Because you lack class.

[Akzle]

AHHH hahahha look at this dumb slut.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037429

awwww poor hookers. only $6000 a week, how will they ever get by?

i guess the moral of the story, is suck more cock.

[scumdog]

Fuck all when it comes to such sad and serious issues we're facing. I thought a lot better of you.

Hey, it's from my experiences over time.

But then in my job I unfortunately do tend to meet the ones that fit the category I described more than the 'average' Joe Lunchbox will meet so my perception may be a little tainted?.

And I bet overall there's heaps that will never be in said category.:yes:

[TheDemonLord]

AHHH hahahha look at this dumb slut.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037429

What I find amusing about this article is a degree of double standard:

If a White, working class man - complains about cheap migrant labour taking jobs and pricing him out of business - He's apparently a Racist Xenophobe.

And yet - Same situation for a "Working Lady" - and we need to get the Department of Immagration onto it - Stat!

Apart from that - I completely agree with her - Rules are there for a reason, they need to be enforced. I think she's a little naive to suggest that any action taken will make the problem go away (It's not called the oldest profession in the world without reason).

And TBH - if she she's in her profession by choice and enjoys her work - more power to her.

[Graystone]

What I find amusing about this article is a degree of double standard:

If a White, working class man - complains about cheap migrant labour taking jobs and pricing him out of business - He's apparently a Racist Xenophobe.

And yet - Same situation for a "Working Lady" - and we need to get the Department of Immagration onto it - Stat!

Apart from that - I completely agree with her - Rules are there for a reason, they need to be enforced. I think she's a little naive to suggest that any action taken will make the problem go away (It's not called the oldest profession in the world without reason).

And TBH - if she she's in her profession by choice and enjoys her work - more power to her.

Where was the bit about racist xenophobia?

Sorry if I read the actual thing instead of some imaginary bullshit... which actually states:

"INZ said no investigation had been undertaken as a result of these allegations as there was "insufficient evidence to warrant further immigration action"."

[TheDemonLord]

Where was the bit about racist xenophobia?

Sorry if I read the actual thing instead of some imaginary bullshit... which actually states:

"INZ said no investigation had been undertaken as a result of these allegations as there was "insufficient evidence to warrant further immigration action"."

Dude...

You missed, by a country mile, the entire point of the comment.

Are you high?

[Graystone]

Dude...

You missed, by a country mile, the entire point of the comment.

Are you high?

I'm just exposing your baseless sexism for what it is, again.

Worker complained about foreigners taking their job illegally. End of story.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm just exposing your baseless sexism for what it is, again.

Worker complained about foreigners taking their job illegally. End of story.

Yes - I said nothing wrong about her... In fact, I even went out of my way to show my support for her statements.

There have been another group of people - who've been complaining for the last decade about foreigners taking their jobs illegally - they don't get positive coverage in a major news publication.

In fact, they get lambasted as Xenophobes and Racists.

The hypocrisy is that this lady is taken seriously, yet working class men get compared to Hitler - for making the exact same foundational objection.

If you think this is "baseless sexism" - maybe you should have another look at the Trump campaign - pretty sure one of his policies was to go after foreigners taking jobs illegally - yet, what was Trump and his followers labelled?

Ah yes....



"You could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

Baseless indeed...

[Graystone]

Yes - I said nothing wrong about her... In fact, I even went out of my way to show my support for her statements.

There have been another group of people - who've been complaining for the last decade about foreigners taking their jobs illegally - they don't get positive coverage in a major news publication.

In fact, they get lambasted as Xenophobes and Racists.

The hypocrisy is that this lady is taken seriously, yet working class men get compared to Hitler - for making the exact same foundational objection.

If you think this is "baseless sexism" - maybe you should have another look at the Trump campaign - pretty sure one of his policies was to go after foreigners taking jobs illegally - yet, what was Trump and his followers labelled?

Ah yes....



Baseless indeed...

Ah, so it's your double standard, carry on then...

[TheDemonLord]

Ah, so it's your double standard, carry on then...

Well, Tell you what - when I see Placard waiving, professional protestors picketing her business, calling her Racist - I'll happily concede it's only my double standard.

[Graystone]

Well, Tell you what - when I see Placard waiving, professional protestors picketing her business, calling her Racist - I'll happily concede it's only my double standard.

Like they do for everyone who speaks against immigrants taking white male jobs illegally? That's your double standard, don't take the worst from one group and equate it with the best from another.

[TheDemonLord]

Like they do for everyone who speaks against immigrants taking white male jobs illegally? That's your double standard, don't take the worst from one group and equate it with the best from another.

You've got someone who was runner up to arguably the most powerful job in the world saying it.

I think that would definitively show that it's a fairly 'mainstream' opinion.

[jasonu]

Because you lack class.

and as everybody knows KB is among the classiest websites in the universe.

[Akzle]

and as everybody knows KB is among the classiest websites in the universe.

fuken oath .

[Grumph]

and as everybody knows KB is among the classiest websites in the universe.

Hell yeah....I look at a couple of US based bike sites. They've been taken over by Trumpists and right wing bible bashers who don't accept any criticism of their gods. And criticism from overseas ? You'd be banned.
Enjoy the freedom here. Better than the US.

[scumdog]

He's classic 'filth'.

And he's a classic 'conspiracy theorist'!:bleh:

[Graystone]

You've got someone who was runner up to arguably the most powerful job in the world saying it.

I think that would definitively show that it's a fairly 'mainstream' opinion.

So what does the most powerfully jobbed person have to say on the matter? :laugh:

Luckily for the poorly represented, 'popular opinion' often isn't all that popular...

[Crasherfromwayback]

and as everybody knows KB is among the classiest websites in the universe.

You know it Muthafucker.

[TheDemonLord]

So what does the most powerfully jobbed person have to say on the matter? :laugh:

He's down with the Law - and that has caused waves of protest.


Luckily for the poorly represented, 'popular opinion' often isn't all that popular...

Ah yes, the poorly represented Criminals....

[Graystone]

He's down with the Law - and that has caused waves of protest.



Ah yes, the poorly represented Criminals....

So popular opinion (surely if the power of a job is of any relevance, the most powerful should be taken...) is to not let illegal immigrants (no gender bias here so as usual, your example is absolute garbage) take jobs and perform them in an illegal manner. Isn't that what the NZ article said? Worker complained about foreigners taking their job illegally. End of story.

[TheDemonLord]

So popular opinion (surely if the power of a job is of any relevance, the most powerful should be taken...) is to not let illegal immigrants (no gender bias here so as usual, your example is absolute garbage) take jobs and perform them in an illegal manner. Isn't that what the NZ article said? Worker complained about foreigners taking their job illegally. End of story.

And of the news articles, that covered Trumps policies - how many were as Positive or Neutral as the NZ one.

That's where the bias comes in.

In one article, Trump is practically Hitler for daring to enforce the law.
In another, poor, disposed Working class men who bemoan the effect illegal immigration has had on the value of their labour are called Racists or Xenophobes.
In other article, We need to stop these Illegal immigrants from taking all our Prostitutes jobs.

Do you see the difference?

[Graystone]

And of the news articles, that covered Trumps policies - how many were as Positive or Neutral as the NZ one.

That's where the bias comes in.

In one article, Trump is practically Hitler for daring to enforce the law.
In another, poor, disposed Working class men who bemoan the effect illegal immigration has had on the value of their labour are called Racists or Xenophobes.
In other article, We need to stop these Illegal immigrants from taking all our Prostitutes jobs.

Do you see the difference?

The NZ article was perfectly neutral. You're clearly making inferences that were not there, all to prop up your own bigotry, just give it a rest, be tolerant, be happy.

[TheDemonLord]

The NZ article was perfectly neutral. You're clearly making inferences that were not there, all to prop up your own bigotry, just give it a rest, be tolerant, be happy.

You are still missing it....

Yes, the NZ article was mildly neutral (or quite positive in parts).

All the others haven't been.

[Graystone]

You are still missing it....

Yes, the NZ article was mildly neutral (or quite positive in parts).

All the others haven't been.

Like, all of the others ever? :laugh: grow up mate, be tolerant, be happy.

[TheDemonLord]

Like, all of the others ever? :laugh: grow up mate, be tolerant, be happy.

The majority - It's something like 10:1 Left wing bias in News Media (on average) - which is why we see scathing opinion articles on Trump and any of his policies (such as enforcing Immigration law). It's why we also see Scathing articles raised against any working class opposition to Immigration.

And that SAME bias is why we see an Article like the one you posted - which was positive to Neutral.

But here is a fun excercise - type in "Immigration protest" into Google image search - see what comes up.

It's predominantly left wing activists opposing restrictions to Immigration - why do you think they would make up the majority of the Search results on the first page? It's not like I've biased the results with my word choice.

Now - if you refuse to accept that there is a Bias in your favour - that is your want and right. It will make any claims you make about objectivity slightly suspect however.

[jasonu]

Pure mayhem!!!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037846

[Voltaire]

Pure mayhem!!!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037846

Looks like a normal day in West Auckland to me.

[Moi]

Pure mayhem!!!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037846


Looks like a normal day in West Auckland to me.

Be fun to see the "entitled" driving on the wrong side meeting an "entitled" in 4x4 coming down the correct side...

[Voltaire]

Be fun to see the "entitled" driving on the wrong side meeting an "entitled" in 4x4 coming down the correct side...

The population is too small to have a world class city they said, once we get more we can build decent public transport they said.....:hitcher:

[Graystone]

The majority - It's something like 10:1 Left wing bias in News Media (on average) - which is why we see scathing opinion articles on Trump and any of his policies (such as enforcing Immigration law). It's why we also see Scathing articles raised against any working class opposition to Immigration.

And that SAME bias is why we see an Article like the one you posted - which was positive to Neutral.

But here is a fun excercise - type in "Immigration protest" into Google image search - see what comes up.

It's predominantly left wing activists opposing restrictions to Immigration - why do you think they would make up the majority of the Search results on the first page? It's not like I've biased the results with my word choice.

Now - if you refuse to accept that there is a Bias in your favour - that is your want and right. It will make any claims you make about objectivity slightly suspect however.

So, what's going on there? is left wing now anti-sexism and right wing is sexism? Do you read your own shit before hitting post?

Wow, immigration protest searches return results about immigration protests; no word choice bias there at all :facepalm: I'm quite amazed there weren't results showing kittens in go-carts with such an un-biased search term.

Sometimes, it actually doesn't matter the label, left/right, man/woman, hooker/escort. You should try not labeling things, be tolerant, be happy.

[TheDemonLord]

So, what's going on there? is left wing now anti-sexism and right wing is sexism? Do you read your own shit before hitting post?

Try again. I mean, there'd being disingenuous to attempt to make a point, but when you've got to completely ignore what was actually said....


Wow, immigration protest searches return results about immigration protests; no word choice bias there at all :facepalm: I'm quite amazed there weren't results showing kittens in go-carts with such an un-biased search term.

Yes - but what gets more coverage? Protestors that are complaining about Immigrants (the supposed Right-wing crowd) or protestors that are in favour of Immigrants (the supposed left-wing crowd)

That's where you'll see the Bias, if you only take off your rose-tinted glasses.


Sometimes, it actually doesn't matter the label, left/right, man/woman, hooker/escort. You should try not labeling things, be tolerant, be happy.

Labels are useful and helpful. It enables us to communicate about something and know that we are talking about the same thing. However, very interesting comment - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot - they were very fond of removing labels from things too...

[Graystone]

Try again. I mean, there'd being disingenuous to attempt to make a point, but when you've got to completely ignore what was actually said....



Yes - but what gets more coverage? Protestors that are complaining about Immigrants (the supposed Right-wing crowd) or protestors that are in favour of Immigrants (the supposed left-wing crowd)

That's where you'll see the Bias, if you only take off your rose-tinted glasses.



Labels are useful and helpful. It enables us to communicate about something and know that we are talking about the same thing. However, very interesting comment - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot - they were very fond of removing labels from things too...

It was ignored as left and right wing politics are irrelevant in your context of there being a double standard of news reporting regarding sexual bias in immigration articles. Perhaps you should try and be tolerant, then be happy...

[FJRider]

Try again. I mean, there'd being disingenuous to attempt to make a point, but when you've got to completely ignore what was actually said....

Don't use big words to make a point ... Profanity and abuse with a dash of personal insults ... are the KB way (apparently) ... ;)


Yes - but what gets more coverage? Protestors that are complaining about Immigrants (the supposed Right-wing crowd) or protestors that are in favour of Immigrants (the supposed left-wing crowd

That's where you'll see the Bias, if you only take off your rose-tinted glasses.

If more actual facts were reported ... there would be less (no) bias involved. Bias gets people talking and facts shut people up ... :shutup:


Labels are useful and helpful. It enables us to communicate about something and know that we are talking about the same thing. However, very interesting comment - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot - they were very fond of removing labels from things too...

Labels aren't that great ... (eg) Hooker or Hospitality manager. It's who attaches the labels that say the most ... :pinch:

[TheDemonLord]

It was ignored as left and right wing politics are irrelevant in your context of there being a double standard of news reporting regarding sexual bias in immigration articles. Perhaps you should try and be tolerant, then be happy...

The politics are absolutely relevant....

There's that Bias of yours.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't use big words to make a point ... Profanity and abuse with a dash of personal insults ... are the KB way (apparently) ... ;)



If more actual facts were reported ... there would be less (no) bias involved. Bias gets people talking and facts shut people up ... :shutup:



Labels aren't that great ... (eg) Hooker or Hospitality manager. It's who attaches the labels that say the most ... :pinch:

Lol.

Point well made :P

[Graystone]

The politics are absolutely relevant....

There's that Bias of yours.

Why? A double standard is observable by the direct actions/words, to go digging around for secondary factors implying intent or causal relationships simply shows there is no observable double standard as you claim.

My bias is towards tolerance and happiness, try it sometime...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hey, it's from my experiences over time.

:

https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/no-ones-exercise-of-free-speech-should-make-another-feel-less-free

[Graystone]

https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/no-ones-exercise-of-free-speech-should-make-another-feel-less-free

Some pretty valid points in there, somewhat dimished by his use of the "pakeha" term though.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Some pretty valid points in there, somewhat dimished by his use of the "pakeha" term though.

I guess he could've used the term *Honky's*....

[scumdog]

https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/no-ones-exercise-of-free-speech-should-make-another-feel-less-free


Some good points and true, people of all ethnic origins should read it.

But as I said ' in my experience' was based on work experience with vocal aggrieved 'clients'. ( You have to be there)

Outside of work it's a different story.:yes:

Another year will see me not having to deal with the 'in my experience' types.....;)

[Graystone]

I guess he could've used the term *Honky's*....

Or 'New Zealanders'...

[Ocean1]

Or 'New Zealanders'...

Only New Zealanders exhibit tribal xenophobic behaviour?

"Human" is the correct noun, there.

[Oakie]

Just as an interesting aside which is sort of relevant to the original topic, I learned last night (or did I re-learn?) where the term 'third world' comes from.

There isn't a 'First' or Second' world ... just a 'Third'. It was a phrase coined in the Cold War to describe nations who were not allied with either NATO or the Communist Bloc. EG, Ireland was 'third world' because it supported neither side. Of course the term has been hijacked now to mean something else but just thought I'd share.

As you were ...

[russd7]

Just as an interesting aside which is sort of relevant to the original topic, I learned last night (or did I re-learn?) where the term 'third world' comes from.

There isn't a 'First' or Second' world ... just a 'Third'. It was a phrase coined in the Cold War to describe nations who were not allied with either NATO or the Communist Bloc. EG, Ireland was 'third world' because it supported neither side. Of course the term has been hijacked now to mean something else but just thought I'd share.

As you were ...

well as they say, "it aint gay unless its really gay"

[Akzle]

well as they say, "it aint gay unless its really gay"

saying that shit's fucken gay.

[Voltaire]

Religion.....gee I miss you....not.

[Voltaire]

Countdown to stop plastic bags.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12046543

I recall them banning them when I lived in Ireland....2003.

Oh and China does't want our piles of plastic either.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12031913


New Zealand previously shipped 15 million tonnes of waste plastic alone to Chinese processing plants each year.

I remember in the late 80's Germans taking all the surplus packaging off their shopping and leaving it at the Supermarket.

[Ocean1]

I remember in the late 80's Germans taking all the surplus packaging off their shopping and leaving it at the Supermarket.

I do that almost every time I buy something from any actual shop.

Good to see the plastic bags gone too.

[oldrider]

Backwater shithole or not - this is my shithole of choice and I like it and don't want to go and live in any other! :no: - If "you" don't like it fuck off and find a better one! :rolleyes: (If you can?)

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12046638

3 1/2 years??? is that fucking it? The cunt should be sent to jail for 10 years or more and the sentencing judge should be run over the coals for such a light penalty.

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12086998

I seem to remember some fulla doing far from cultural break dancing in the video to this tune.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12086998

I seem to remember some fulla doing far from cultural break dancing in the video to this tune.

There are some instances where I feel a certain degree of appropriation isn't right - for example, I'd be annoyed at anyone who was wearing a VC who wasn't entitled to wear it.

At the same time - It's interesting how it's only ever one way, no one is complaining about how Polynesian culture has appropriated African American Hip Hop culture...

[Ocean1]

no one is complaining about how Polynesian culture has appropriated African American Hip Hop culture...

I could have a wee bitch about it if you like?

[TheDemonLord]

I could have a wee bitch about it if you like?

Go on then, bitch away....

[jasonu]

At the same time - It's interesting how it's only ever one way, no one is complaining about how Polynesian culture has appropriated African American Hip Hop culture...

Before that the polys all thought they were rastas.

[Grumph]

Before that the polys all thought they were rastas.

Pot meet kettle....you're a kiwi who now identifies as a right wing Trump supporting yank.....

[jasonu]

Pot meet kettle....you're a kiwi who now identifies as a right wing Trump supporting yank.....

Mate go back thru my posts and see if you can find where I say I support trump. My vote was against Hillary, trump just happened to also be against her.

[oldrider]

Mate go back thru my posts and see if you can find where I say I support trump. My vote was against Hillary, trump just happened to also be against her.

Of course voters were spoiled for choice to register a vote "against" Hilary :rolleyes: - Hobson's choice between a turd or a bigger turd! - totally orchestrated? - :yes: Absolutely! :shifty:

[Banditbandit]

Before that the polys all thought they were rastas.

Bullshit ... only a small minority - admittedly a loud and visible minority - but a minority nevertheless ..

[oldrider]

Saw this and thought - could this happen here?

If not why not? - this world is our oyster as well. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kylie-jenner-net-worth-forbes-20-year-old-jenner-to-become-youngest-self-made-billionaire-ever/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0g&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b46e48a04d3013b6ef58439&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter What happens is what somebody thought about? :scratch:

Do we just think about the wrong kinda shit? :confused:

[Voltaire]

Saw this and thought - could this happen here?

If not why not? - this world is our oyster as well. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kylie-jenner-net-worth-forbes-20-year-old-jenner-to-become-youngest-self-made-billionaire-ever/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0g&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b46e48a04d3013b6ef58439&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter What happens is what somebody thought about? :scratch:

Do we just think about the wrong kinda shit? :confused:

Clearly she does not spend enough time on Trade Me looking for old motorcycle parts :drool:

Really liking this but probably need a few more Instagram followers to pay for it.
https://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/plusw/814104783.jpg

Dear Kylie, can you give me some pointers on how to make a billion?

[pete376403]

Nice car behind too

[jasonu]

Saw this and thought - could this happen here?

If not why not? - this world is our oyster as well. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kylie-jenner-net-worth-forbes-20-year-old-jenner-to-become-youngest-self-made-billionaire-ever/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0g&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b46e48a04d3013b6ef58439&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter What happens is what somebody thought about? :scratch:

Do we just think about the wrong kinda shit? :confused:

Here is a young lass from Scotts Ferry. She went to Bulls School (and so did I...). She is NZ's richest woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Ransom

[WALRUS]

Backwater shithole or not - this is my shithole of choice and I like it and don't want to go and live in any other! :no: - If "you" don't like it fuck off and find a better one! :rolleyes: (If you can?)


Aren't most parts of the world backwater shitholes in one way or another..? From my experience of NZ, it seems the least backwatery shitholery.. Better than where I've been in the US and UK (with the possible exception of The IoM). Hence why I'm planning on leaving my little backwater shithole over the next few years to move Kiwi-side.. It's just better xD

[pritch]

Saw this and thought - could this happen here?



Not in that specific set of circumstances. She has mainly made her money from being a member of a family famous for being famous.
The same family that moved Banksy to paint, "Stop making stupid people famous"?

That Palo Alto Kiwi is a whole nutha matter. Hadn't read about her before.

[Voltaire]

Aren't most parts of the world backwater shitholes in one way or another..? From my experience of NZ, it seems the least backwatery shitholery.. Better than where I've been in the US and UK (with the possible exception of The IoM). Hence why I'm planning on leaving my little backwater shithole over the next few years to move Kiwi-side.. It's just better xD

I've heard good things about your "backwater shithole", great riding roads, 1 cop apparently.

Don't move to Auckland....its broken.:(

( unless of course you view $1000 000 for house where you are only stuck in traffic for 30 minutes each way or $700 000 and drive for an hour plus...that's driving as in 1 and 2 gear.
You could of course ride a motorcycle but Darwin has given everyone smart phones to raise his game.

[Ocean1]

I've heard good things about your "backwater shithole", great riding roads, 1 cop apparently.

Don't move to Auckland....its broken.:(

( unless of course you view $1000 000 for house where you are only stuck in traffic for 30 minutes each way or $700 000 and drive for an hour plus...that's driving as in 1 and 2 gear.
You could of course ride a motorcycle but Darwin has given everyone smart phones to raise his game.

Dude, Hobart's not so very far behind, if a few more of them had jobs the commute over there would be just as fucked, and at least you don't have to worry about fucking wobblys hurtling through your windscreen twice a month.

Shockingly, every desirable city on the planet anywhere near the size of Orks has the same problem. If you don't find it all that attractive move somewhere else.

[eldog]

I've heard good things about your "backwater shithole", great riding roads, 1 cop apparently.

Don't move to Auckland....its broken.:(.

South Auckland it’s not broken as long as you travel south.
plenty of good riding, just watch out for the weekend warriors

[Voltaire]

Dude, Hobart's not so very far behind, if a few more of them had jobs the commute over there would be just as fucked, and at least you don't have to worry about fucking wobblys hurtling through your windscreen twice a month.

Shockingly, every desirable city on the planet anywhere near the size of Orks has the same problem. If you don't find it all that attractive move somewhere else.

Dude....its rant and rave. I have a 15-20 minute commute and great job.
Once my drafty old Bungalow gets to 1.5 M might look at moving.
Some days I drive, others catch the train, if its sunny I take the bike.:woohoo:
337525


South Auckland it’s not broken as long as you travel south.
plenty of good riding, just watch out for the weekend warriors

Used to go for regular Sunday rides South but that roadworks on the Southern these days..... North is better now as road works are all done...and more gravel roads too.

[eldog]

Used to go for regular Sunday rides South but that roadworks on the Southern these days..... North is better now as road works are all done...and more gravel roads too.

Roadworks are only short term, but still won’t be enough, another lane is required, cheap enough really to do it now. But na, we will do it later.:no::no::no:

i have another date with cape reianga some time soon.

south still better apart from the fog:laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

unless of course you view $1000 000 for house where you are only stuck in traffic for 30 minutes each way or $700 000 and drive for an hour plus...that's driving as in 1 and 2 gear.
You could of course ride a motorcycle but Darwin has given everyone smart phones to raise his game.

To be fair, the worst days commuting in Auckland still have a much better ambience compared to most other places in the world.

[Laava]

Roadworks are only short term, but still won’t be enough, another lane is required, cheap enough really to do it now. But na, we will do it later.:no::no::no:

i have another date with cape reianga some time soon.

south still better apart from the fog:laugh:

Mangamukas have just been re sealed on the south side, you wont be disappointed!

[Laava]

To be fair, the worst days commuting in Auckland still have a much better ambience compared to most other places in the world.

You are fucking kidding , right?

[Black Knight]

Mangamukas have just been re sealed on the south side, you wont be disappointed!

Sushhhhh-now everyone will be there (still a bit damp in places)

[Voltaire]

To be fair, the worst days commuting in Auckland still have a much better ambience compared to most other places in the world.


You are fucking kidding , right?

You need to consider his idea of a good time is pointless arguments.

[sidecar bob]

To be fair, the worst days commuting in Auckland still have a much better ambience compared to most other places in the world.

Have you actually commuted in many other places in the world? Or just googled about it?

[TheDemonLord]

Have you actually commuted in many other places in the world? Or just googled about it?

Well, for example - on my Commute, I get lovely Sea Views, nice green fields - even the oxygenation lake looks nice.

Better than a slog on the M25 to London, or LA's concrete Jungle.

If I wanted, I could take the ferry to work and my commute would consist of watching Dolphins frolic in the Seas.

Granted, I've not been to every single metropolised area in the world - but for me - Auckland isn't too bad.

[TheDemonLord]

You need to consider his idea of a good time is pointless arguments.

Well, it's not my only idea of a good time :P

[sidecar bob]

Well, for example - on my Commute, I get lovely Sea Views, nice green fields - even the oxygenation lake looks nice.

Better than a slog on the M25 to London, or LA's concrete Jungle.

If I wanted, I could take the ferry to work and my commute would consist of watching Dolphins frolic in the Seas.

Granted, I've not been to every single metropolised area in the world - but for me - Auckland isn't too bad.

You should visit LA. Not what you're assuming at all.
Still my all time favourite destination to date.

[jasonu]

You should visit LA. Not what you're assuming at all.
Still my all time favourite destination to date.

LA is like a (very) big Auckland.:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

[sidecar bob]

LA is like a (very) big Auckland.:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

Not my expierence at all. I only go to Auckland when I need to. Rainbows End VS Disneyland, Huntington Beach VS Takapuna beach, Shortland St VS Hollywood Boulevard. and the food choices! etc etc.

[Voltaire]

Not my expierence at all. I only go to Auckland when I need to. Rainbows End VS Disneyland, Huntington Beach VS Takapuna beach, Shortland St VS Hollywood Boulevard. and the food choices! etc etc.

I loved Disneyland...well I was 6 at the time.

The one outside Paris is good too.

Shucks...I never knew Shortland St was where you non Aucklanders visited.:lol:

[TheDemonLord]

You should visit LA. Not what you're assuming at all.
Still my all time favourite destination to date.

To be fair - I did visit LA many years ago - and the Touristy side of things was great - but I also remember the Freeways being rather depressing.

That said, I do want to go back.

[jasonu]

Not my expierence at all. I only go to Auckland when I need to. Rainbows End VS Disneyland, Huntington Beach VS Takapuna beach, Shortland St VS Hollywood Boulevard. and the food choices! etc etc.

South of LA PCH is a great ride or drive.

[jasonu]

To be fair - I did visit LA many years ago - and the Touristy side of things was great - but I also remember the Freeways being rather depressing.

That said, I do want to go back.

See post 332

[sidecar bob]

Shucks...I never knew Shortland St was where you non Aucklanders visited.:lol:

It's the movie making heart of Auckland isn't it?:lol:

[Moi]

South of LA PCH is a great ride or drive.

Not quite...

The road down Oregon's coast is better than the PCH, not that the PCH isn't certainly one of the great drives/rides...

[Moi]

Shucks...I never knew Shortland St was where you non Aucklanders visited.:lol:


It's the movie making heart of Auckland isn't it?:lol:

And best of all!

It's out west... the cultural centre of the country...

[jasonu]

Not quite...

The road down Oregon's coast is better than the PCH, not that the PCH isn't certainly one of the great drives/rides...

Done both, both are great.

[Katman]

To be fair, the worst days commuting in Auckland still have a much better ambience compared to most other places in the world.

Taupo has one set of traffic lights and lake with snow capped mountain views from virtually every angle.

You can keep your Auckland 'ambience'.

[sidecar bob]

Taupo has one set of traffic lights and lake with snow capped mountain views from virtually every angle.

You can keep your Auckland 'ambience'.

And currently it's warmer than Taupo inside my fridge.;)

[Moi]

And currently it's warmer than Taupo inside my fridge.;)

Sounds like time for a new fridge...

[jasonu]

Taupo has one set of traffic lights and lake with snow capped mountain views from virtually every angle.

You can keep your Auckland 'ambience'.

and on a sunny day there is about 10 million cunts blocking all those roads and you can't do more than 10kph

[oldrider]

and on a sunny day there is about 10 million cunts blocking all those roads and you can't do more than 10kph

Actually I think you are referring to the "new" Queenstown since Auckland affluence shifted down there! :eek: . :ride: . :blip:

[eldog]

Mangamukas have just been re sealed on the south side, you wont be disappointed!


OK I will book it in.


And for those who missed it, Parts of The Mighty Waikato can be fogged in till at least lunchtime......

Or for those who ride at night, esp if the moon is out from 7pm onwards there can be beautiful wispy threads or if coming down off a hill a blanket of fog with just the tree tops poking through can make a great vista.

[GazzaH]

And currently it's warmer than Taupo inside my fridge.;)

Why have you got Taupo in your fridge?

[sidecar bob]

Why have you got Taupo in your fridge?

Fuckin big fridge.:msn-wink:

[Voltaire]

Why have you got Taupo in your fridge?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rJjjAPCaZ4s/SwoHdh_7mHI/AAAAAAAAALw/28SI-eVfNpA/s320/Grand+Central+Station+Aliens+All+Hail+K+Men+In+Bla ck+2+Locker.PNG

[TheDemonLord]

Taupo has one set of traffic lights and lake with snow capped mountain views from virtually every angle.

You can keep your Auckland 'ambience'.

Good point - but I don't think you can call the trip into a Taupo a "Commute"

[husaberg]

Good point - but I don't think you can call the trip into a Taupo a "Commute"
Maybe, but Steve living in Taupo raises the Auckland av IQ.

[eldog]

Good point - but I don't think you can call the trip into a Taupo a "Commute"

You should try getting into Taupo on a public holiday.

you can move faster in Auckland’s congestion.:oi-grr:

like Wanganui it’s difficult to leave

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12113365

Look at this fat piece of shit and the way the soft cock courts treated her misdeeds.
Nearly kills someone for crossing the road. Gets no jail time, instead all she gets is an order to sit on the couch for a few months which she prolly does anyway and a token few dollars to the victims.

[pritch]

A jail sentence would be a life changing event says the judge. God forbid that she should actually change anything. I guess the jails are full?

[oldrider]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12113365

Look at this fat piece of shit and the way the soft cock courts treated her misdeeds.
Nearly kills someone for crossing the road. Gets no jail time, instead all she gets is an order to sit on the couch for a few months which she prolly does anyway and a token few dollars to the victims.


A jail sentence would be a life changing event says the judge. God forbid that she should actually change anything. I guess the jails are full?

Absolutely staggering result by a New Zealand court of law - the only conclusion we could come up with is the same as pritch - the jails are full! :scratch:

The people I feel most sorry for in this country are our police - with decisions like this it must be very disheartening for them "THEY NEED MORE SUPPORT" from our justice system! :brick:

[jasonu]

A jail sentence would be a life changing event says the judge. God forbid that she should actually change anything. I guess the jails are full?

Yep summat needs to change for that disgusting pig.
I'd be fucking livid if I was one of the victims.

[GazzaH]

It's all very easy for you armchair judges ... but unless you were there for the trial, you're reacting to news reporter's take on the case.

Personally, I'd rather trust a (real) judge and the NZ legal system than a journalist.

[jasonu]

It's all very easy for you armchair judges ... but unless you were there for the trial, you're reacting to news reporter's take on the case.

Personally, I'd rather trust a (real) judge and the NZ legal system than a journalist.

Except she pleaded guilty...

[Voltaire]

She should be sent to Auckland and made to drive up and down SH1 between Drury and Takanini all day for a month.

[jasonu]

She should be sent to Auckland and made to drive up and down SH1 between Drury and Takanini all day for a month.

That's inhumane.

[jasonu]

Tik coonts.
https://www.ktvz.com/news/national-world/australian-police-hunt-migrants-missing-in-crocodileinfested-waters/786735521

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12118007

Blimey $600k for a tin shed in Papakura.

"Families will be getting more than their money's worth," Twyford said.


Wot a joke.

[carbonhed]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12118007

Blimey $600k for a tin shed in Papakura.

"Families will be getting more than their money's worth," Twyford said.


Wot a joke.

Wouldn't have thought you could build homes that close together. The gutterings look to be only 300mm apart.

[Voltaire]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12118007

Blimey $600k for a tin shed in Papakura.

"Families will be getting more than their money's worth," Twyford said.


Wot a joke.

+ if you work in the city you get to drive in bumper to bumper traffic crawl for an hour or so....or if you get up really early you can park at the Park n Ride and train it.

Thats what happens when you have GFC, lower interest rates and flood the place with cheap finance to kick start the economy....people buy

assets and the prices go up.

[eldog]

Papakura - little boxes, little boxes everywhere

value for money - yeah, nah

:violin:

[Voltaire]

Papakura - little boxes, little boxes everywhere

value for money - yeah, nah

:violin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0

The plan is to have us all in them, going to work, coming home, watching netflix,buying Uber Eats,crap from Alibaba and staying poor.

Jacinda may have different ideas but as NZ was described in the weekend on one paper as " a speck in the ocean"

[oldrider]

Very true - but what are the alternatives? :scratch:

[Voltaire]

Very true - but what are the alternatives? :scratch:

Sadly I think what we have is now the norm.

I'm unsure of how the rising prices are affecting the rest of the country but I've noticed Rotorua going up.

Wages are static, not sure how that works.

[oldrider]

Sadly I think what we have is now the norm.

Maybe it has always been the norm - the common denominator is people and we are all products of the the same process turned out by almost identical factories.

The narrow margin for difference is possibly why division and deception are such effective tools in controlling the masses? - Develop need and exploit greed? :confused:

[F5 Dave]

Tik coonts.
https://www.ktvz.com/news/national-world/australian-police-hunt-migrants-missing-in-crocodileinfested-waters/786735521

We'll I don't know what that means but it's very nice up there at the right time of year. And obviously on secure ground rather than bedding down with rather Snappy apex predators. Guess the problem might fix itself.
Hard issue for sure. If people in power would stop being such cunts, everyone could stay at home tending their fields or whatever they make a living doing.

[Swoop]

Blimey $600k for a tin shed in Papakura.

"Families will be getting more than their money's worth," Twyford said.

Wot a joke.

Basically a sleep-out garage with a designer "decor". A fucking insulting approach to housing.


Very true - but what are the alternatives? :scratch:
Quite a lot actually.
First, NZ needs to get away from this mentality of "Must have a 1/4 acre section with a house on it" for it to be considered housing.
Second, apartments are the way forward to big-city living at an affordable price.
Third, anyone who wants a large section to maintain while sitting indoors fucking around on their "mobile-devices" cannot complain about being arse-raped by the council for exorbitant rate bills and hoses being "unaffordable".

Additionally, there are the beginnings of proper public transport due to an increased centralized population base which demands (& can fund) these systems.
Lots of options. Just fuckwits demanding a house & land that they don't really need or can't pay for. Buy small, get onto the property ladder, move up from there.

[oldrider]

Quite a lot actually.
First, NZ needs to get away from this mentality of "Must have a 1/4 acre section with a house on it" for it to be considered housing.
Second, apartments are the way forward to big-city living at an affordable price.
Third, anyone who wants a large section to maintain while sitting indoors fucking around on their "mobile-devices" cannot complain about being arse-raped by the council for exorbitant rate bills and hoses being "unaffordable".

Additionally, there are the beginnings of proper public transport due to an increased centralized population base which demands (& can fund) these systems.
Lots of options. Just fuckwits demanding a house & land that they don't really need or can't pay for. Buy small, get onto the property ladder, move up from there.

[First] Thought that had long since disappeared - less is more in most applications for today IMO. (people don't tend/need to grow or farm food any more now.)

[Second] Agree.

[Third] Agree - horses for courses, property should be fit for purpose and needs rather than "affluence" metering and measuring.

[additionally] Most people (in NZ) believe public transport is for "other people" to use.
Older people should be encouraged more to downsize according to their diminishing family requirements.
I.E. there are lots of old people still tied up to their almost empty family sized homes with sections to match that they can't physically look after any-more!

[sidecar bob]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12118007

Blimey $600k for a tin shed in Papakura.

"Families will be getting more than their money's worth," Twyford said.


Wot a joke.

What a waste of space.
They havent even taken a 9hour plane ride to study how governments of high density populations were handling the problem with ease over 20 years ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board

[jasonu]

What a waste of space.
They havent even taken a 9hour plane ride to study how governments of high density populations were handling the problem with ease over 20 years ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board

No mate but the tooth fairy managed to blow $80k on a trip to give more of your tax money to coconuts that aren't even in NZ.

[Voltaire]

What a waste of space.
They havent even taken a 9hour plane ride to study how governments of high density populations were handling the problem with ease over 20 years ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board

I remember on a business trip once in a cab from Shanghai airport in the city and it was literally an hour plus of high rise apartments.:sick:

Was in Wanganui last week, 300K buys you a nice place there. Perhaps they should encourage industry to leave Auckland, which may happen anyway as the staff can't really afford to live here.

I catch the train once a week into the city office, means I can have a few $14 beers at the Viaduct.:woohoo:
Got a Thai Lunch last Friday and the 500 ml of beer cost more than the meal....go figure.

[oldrider]

I remember on a business trip once in a cab from Shanghai airport in the city and it was literally an hour plus of high rise apartments.:sick:

Was in Wanganui last week, 300K buys you a nice place there. Perhaps they should encourage industry to leave Auckland, which may happen anyway as the staff can't really afford to live here.

I catch the train once a week into the city office, means I can have a few $14 beers at the Viaduct.:woohoo:
Got a Thai Lunch last Friday and the 500 ml of beer cost more than the meal....go figure.

Hmmmmm, thinks - it's time to start a boutique brewery with a foodery sideline? - Scotts brewery and Pizza in Oamaru is doing very nicely. :drinknsin

Link: https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/Restaurant_Review-g255677-d7596117-Reviews-Scotts_Brewing_Co-Oamaru_Otago_Region_South_Island.html

[jasonu]

Got a Thai Lunch last Friday and the 500 ml of beer cost more than the meal....go figure.

Fucking hell. $14 beers in Auckland.

I had a $10 Budweiser (terrible shit, about as rubbish as lion red and DB) on Waikiki beach a couple of years ago and thought that was bad. However it did come with the use of a quite nice beach lounger chair...

[Swoop]

Older people should be encouraged more to downsize according to their diminishing family requirements.
I.E. there are lots of old people still tied up to their almost empty family sized homes with sections to match that they can't physically look after any-more!
Yup. People fail to realis this until it becomes too late to manage. I've heard multiple instances where people have enjoyed the greater social companionship, involvement in the community and happiness once they have moved into communities of people around the same age-range. It does not limit the lifestyle, but enlarges it.

No mate but the tooth fairy managed to blow $80k on a trip to give more of your tax money to coconuts that aren't even in NZ.
Yeah, I had to do a double take on that one. Calling the plane back and getting a separate flight on the same day as the rest of the cockwombles? WTF???

I had a $10 Budweiser (terrible shit, about as rubbish as lion red and DB)
Comparing "bud" to Lion Red?
That's fucking LOW!!! At least Leon Rouge will get you drunk!!:laugh:

[Voltaire]

I know a old chap who is 88, lives in a retirement village and parks his Honda 550 with the mobility scooters.:niceone:

The $14.00 beers are top of the line hand made with organic Nelson hops, the finest Canterbury malt, Belgian yeast and artesian water carried by maidens to Kauri vats and matured in French Oak barrels.

[Moi]

... The $14.00 beers are top of the line hand made with organic Nelson hops, the finest Canterbury malt, Belgian yeast and artesian water carried by maidens to Kauri vats and matured in French Oak barrels.

So you believed the advertising blurb on the bottle... :drinknsin :psst: :beer:

[Ocean1]

Older people should be encouraged more to downsize according to their diminishing family requirements.

Older people should be encouraged to continue doing whatever they fucking want with their own property/money.

Also: if they DID want to buy a small place, somewhere within scooter distance of town and built with modern materials then they'd find it fucking difficult finding anything. The best I could do was to downsize from 340sqM to 260sqM, there just haven't been any small places built in the last couple of decades, the council/developer rort simply doesn't allow for them.

Not that I'm old. Cunt.

[TheDemonLord]

Not that I'm old. Cunt.

I dunno - you do seem to pass all the prerequisites for being an Old Cunt :p

[oldrider]

Older people should be encouraged to continue doing whatever they fucking want with their own property/money.

Also: if they DID want to buy a small place, somewhere within scooter distance of town and built with modern materials then they'd find it fucking difficult finding anything. The best I could do was to downsize from 340sqM to 260sqM, there just haven't been any small places built in the last couple of decades, the council/developer rort simply doesn't allow for them.

Not that I'm old. Cunt.

Most of the older people that I was referring to have long outlived their (oversized) family family homes and are "not" doing what they would like to do with them.

They have simply not planned ahead and have (by their own volition) left it too late and no longer have any borrowing power - if they have the cost is prohibitive.

The word I used was that they should be "encouraged" sooner rather than leaving it until it's too bloody late.

We have just gone through this process ourselves - found a section sold up and built a new smaller unit in town - the local council screwed us $20,000.00 for fuck all but we have still managed.

True - To you I may just be an old cunt but so far I am not costing you anything to keep.

[pete376403]

I'm not old yet but no longer young either. We get contacted more or less weekly by real estate agents wanting us to sell our 1/4 acre, three bed, etc. After they tell us how much we could get for it I ask what could I buy with that money and its a two bed unit on a postage stamp sized section. Fuck'em, we'll stay till we're carried out and let someone else deal with it.

[jasonu]

Most of the older people that I was referring to have long outlived their (oversized) family family homes and are "not" doing what they would like to do with them.

They have simply not planned ahead and have (by their own volition) left it too late and no longer have any borrowing power - if they have the cost is prohibitive.

The word I used was that they should be "encouraged" sooner rather than leaving it until it's too bloody late.

We have just gone through this process ourselves - found a section sold up and built a new smaller unit in town - the local council screwed us $20,000.00 for fuck all but we have still managed.

True - To you I may just be an old cunt but so far I am not costing you anything to keep.

$20k for what?

[Voltaire]

I'm not old yet but no longer young either. We get contacted more or less weekly by real estate agents wanting us to sell our 1/4 acre, three bed, etc. After they tell us how much we could get for it I ask what could I buy with that money and its a two bed unit on a postage stamp sized section. Fuck'em, we'll stay till we're carried out and let someone else deal with it.

Hey Kids, spend hours and hours sorting all my shit out :woohoo:

There is an old ex Racer block in the Vintage Car Club who has apparently 70+ old motorcycles in his shed, I've seen the few he rides so the rest must be pretty good. He won't sell any and says " They can sort it out when I'm dead"

My Mother refused to trade down and eventually lost the plot and once it gets to that stage it got very difficult to do anything.
When she died filled up quite a few skips with household stuff as that's my idea of "dealing with it"
Kept the Azberg dinner set, all that 50's,60's,70's,80's shit not so much.

But your right about Estate Agents , development mates and their in pocket Council Cronies....fuck them.
I too could downsize as my kids have left home but I'd miss my 50 sm garage.

[Ocean1]

I'd miss my 50 sm garage.

A special, dedicated sm garage?

Now that's luxury, mate, fuck I'd be happy with a decent bike garage.

[oldrider]

Yeah - well priorities are sorted - my garage is bigger than my house and thanks to Nationals Dr Nick fucking Smith there is no motorcycle in it - yet! - I still live in hope! :ride: ("priorities")

[WALRUS]

Yeah, the only reason I bought my house was because of the garage and workshop that came with it. I've got the same priority for when I look for a place in NZ but realestate listings over there don't seem to put as much focus on garages as they do here.

[Voltaire]

Probably have to downsize one day but I've got too many projects to finish.:rolleyes:

[Woodman]

Probably have to downsize one day but I've got too many projects to finish.:rolleyes:

I am thinking either downsize although it is fucking hard finding a small house in Nelson/Tasman or the cheaper alternative of boarding up the stairwell and just living downstairs.

[Voltaire]

I am thinking either downsize although it is fucking hard finding a small house in Nelson/Tasman or the cheaper alternative of boarding up the stairwell and just living downstairs.

kiwibuild, coming to a grassy patch near you.
https://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/News-Housing_Projects_Office.jpg?w=460&ssl=1:laugh:

[OddDuck]

Yeah, the only reason I bought my house was because of the garage and workshop that came with it. I've got the same priority for when I look for a place in NZ but realestate listings over there don't seem to put as much focus on garages as they do here.

All too true. I've been shopping for a place (for rather too long but that's another story...) and yeah the garage is pretty much an afterthought in the sales process. For most people the garage is a nice place to park the car and that's about it.

[Laava]

kiwibuild, coming to a grassy patch near you.
https://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/News-Housing_Projects_Office.jpg?w=460&ssl=1:laugh:


https://youtu.be/-8JyTxp_TNA

[WALRUS]

kiwibuild, coming to a grassy patch near you.
https://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/News-Housing_Projects_Office.jpg?w=460&ssl=1:laugh:

Fuck that's a depressing sight D:

[jasonu]

Fuck that's a depressing sight D:

Get used to it.
Oh and just thing what it will look like in (say) 5 years time...

[sidecar bob]

I'm not old yet but no longer young either. We get contacted more or less weekly by real estate agents wanting us to sell our 1/4 acre, three bed, etc. After they tell us how much we could get for it I ask what could I buy with that money and its a two bed unit on a postage stamp sized section. Fuck'em, we'll stay till we're carried out and let someone else deal with it.

What service do these real estate agents provide to you for an exorbitant fee that you are incapable of providing for yourself at no cost to a better standard?
Ask the next one that pops their worthless head up that question.
The older ones are mainly failed business people & the younger ones are entitled youth.

[sidecar bob]

kiwibuild, coming to a grassy patch near you.
https://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/News-Housing_Projects_Office.jpg?w=460&ssl=1:laugh:

yeah bravo! go Labour! Hammer down on the great policies.
I guess it's only a short term waste of relatively inexpensive materials until a decent long term solution is embarked upon by a more committed govt.

[F5 Dave]

What service do these real estate agents provide to you for an exorbitant fee that you are incapable of providing for yourself at no cost to a better standard?
Ask the next one that pops their worthless head up that question.
The older ones are mainly failed business people & the younger ones are entitled youth.
Have you the legal experience to sell a house?

That's what one asked me ringing up my private sale add 15 yrs ago.

My response was, No. But my lawyer is a hell of a lot more qualified than you. The conversation went quite flat after that. ;)

[Voltaire]

I wonder when you will see Uber Estate, sell you house based on an hourly rate plus materials.

[sidecar bob]

Have you the legal experience to sell a house?

That's what one asked me ringing up my private sale add 15 yrs ago.

My response was, No. But my lawyer is a hell of a lot more qualified than you. The conversation went quite flat after that. ;)
What is this legal expierence of which they speak?
I was a BMW car mechanic for 25 yeas during which time i bough & sold i think 11 properties, both commercial & residential without an estate agent.
Its people that think you need some special skill set to sell your own house that they prey on.
I could have done a law degree with what ive saved by not dealing with the parasites, but that wasnt needed.

[sidecar bob]

I wonder when you will see Uber Estate, sell you house based on an hourly rate plus materials.

P.m me mate. Ill teach you how to use a digital camera, put an ad up on the relevant websites, & write about a house i have never lived in, all for under half an estate agents fee ;)

[Moi]

kiwibuild, coming to a grassy patch near you.
https://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/News-Housing_Projects_Office.jpg?w=460&ssl=1:laugh:

I've been chuckling about this for a day or two... it looks like where I live...

Except, the houses were built at the beginning of the 20th century, were kitset for all intents and purposes, and are now considered "heritage" and command prices around the $2 million mark... the classic NZ villa...

[Voltaire]

Selling is easy, getting the best price is what you pay for.
I explained that to an agent once, I can bang a sign in and put a price on it that will sell, for your commission your working for the best price.

I'm doubtful you can attribute the housing shortage to labour policies, it was not under their watch prices skyrocketed. That was more to do with the ready availablity of cheap money with interest rates not seen since the 60's.
With global debt at least 1.5 time higher than in 2007 and countries like Turkey, Argentina having financial issues, the US stock market at record levels assisted by Corporate tax breaks a reset cannot be far away.

[Voltaire]

I've been chuckling about this for a day or two... it looks like where I live...

Except, the houses were built at the beginning of the 20th century, were kitset for all intents and purposes, and are now considered "heritage" and command prices around the $2 million mark... the classic NZ villa...

Didn't they start off as designs from San Francisco?

https://nestingfolk.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/san-fran-bungalows-e1501835999143.jpg

My drafty 50's bungalow in need of better insulation would not meet next years rental levels.

" handy to the cafes and Dressmart"

[Moi]

Didn't they start off as designs from San Francisco?

My drafty 50's bungalow in need of better insulation would not meet next years rental levels.

" handy to the cafes and Dressmart"

Yes and no... if you look at the Victoria middle class houses in England, terraces included, you'll see many similarities. The bay window admits more natural light so a big plus in a house with only gas lighting. Many of the San Fran houses built after the 1906 earthquake are built of kauri. Just that San Fran and us built with wood whereas in the UK and in Australia the houses were built with brick...

We insulated underfloor the other year and it made a huge difference to the comfort of the house. As rooms were refurbished batts were put into the walls behind sarking and modern gib board replaced that which had been slapped up in the late 50s which also helped.

[sidecar bob]

Selling is easy, getting the best price is what you pay for.
I explained that to an agent once, I can bang a sign in and put a price on it that will sell, for your commission your working for the best price.


Hook line & sinker. The commission is so great & the difference between them getting you say 1m or 950k makes virtually no difference to them & a 961 Norton to you.
They're working for a sale at any cost & their commission, plain & simple.
One told me "all we want is agreement between two parties"

[Woodman]

I would be quite happy to have one of them kiwibuild houses, but on a section in an area like where I am now, not bunched all together. But these houses would not meet the requirements of enough bedrooms, bathrooms, toilets or square metreage to be allowed to be built where I want to live. This is where shit has gone wrong.

[F5 Dave]

What is this legal expierence of which they speak?
I was a BMW car mechanic for 25 yeas during which time i bough & sold i think 11 properties, both commercial & residential without an estate agent.
Its people that think you need some special skill set to sell your own house that they prey on.
I could have done a law degree with what ive saved by not dealing with the parasites, but that wasnt needed.

Aww mate. They have to do a course. Could be over a week long. The legal part might get mentioned in passing.
Experts.

[Ocean1]

I'm doubtful you can attribute the housing shortage to labour policies, it was not under their watch prices skyrocketed. That was more to do with the ready availablity of cheap money with interest rates not seen since the 60's.

Sure we can. The whole thing started a couple of labour's ago, when they found there wasn't enough money in the kitty to pay for their election promises. Again.

So they slashed the state housing budget, sold off a bunch of state houses and set up tax breaks to encourage private investment in rental properties instead. (the very same mechanisms they're now calling "inequitable").

They also changed the tax law re retirement savings, taxing them at source instead of on withdrawal, a move that was specifically designed to free up retirement scheme savings capital for housing investment.

So we can absolutely blame labour for implementing policy that drove the housing market in the direction it subsequently took.


Them, and crooked cunts like this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/106862107/Former-NZ-local-govt-CEOs-behaviour-deemed-corrupt-by-Australian-commission and their developer mates for the seriously dodgy practices that created the shortage that drove further price rises.

[husaberg]

.................

August 23, 2014
House prices in Auckland


Council valuations indicate Auckland house prices have gone up by one-third over the last three years. (Auckland Council)
The average Auckland house price has gone up by nearly $225,000 since 2008, up over $75,000 in the past 12 months. (QV)
It now takes 50 years to pay off the average house in Auckland. (NZIER)

The residential rebuild in Canterbury


Only 2,000 houses have been rebuilt in Christchurch when the earthquakes destroyed 11,000 and CERA says 31,000 more are needed in the Canterbury region by 2021. (Christchurch City Council)
Rents are up nearly 45% and house prices up nearly 30% since the first earthquake. (MBIE & QV)
MBIE estimates there are up to 7400 people homeless in Canterbury.
Only 62 of the 700 new state houses Nick Smith promised have been built.

National says it’s policy aims to increase supply of new housing but more houses were built every year under the last Labour Government than National were able to build in their first five years in office.
State housing​



Labour increased the state housing stock by 9000 when last in government: National have reduced the number of state houses by 1000 in the last 12 months alone.
There are 2700 vacant state houses, and the waiting lists are at a record high at 5800.
National has used Housing NZ as a cash cow in the middle of the housing crisis: making a net withdrawal of $212 m (2009-2013) and are budgeting to withdraw another $252 m over the next 3 years.

The National Government denies there is a housing crisis.


The OECD says we have the 2nd most unaffordable housing in the western world.
The IMF says house price to income ratios are 30% out of step with historic averages and house price to rent ratios 80%.
The Reserve Bank says the overheated housing market is a threat to macro-economic stability.

[Ocean1]

.................

All somewhat correct.

*wipes spittle*

And completely irrelevant.

[husaberg]

All somewhat correct.

*wipes spittle*

And completely irrelevant.
Whatever....

[jasonu]

8 years for this fucking coon. What a joke!!! Sounds like he'll be out in just a couple.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12142172

[skippa1]

8 years for this fucking coon. What a joke!!! Sounds like he'll be out in just a couple.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12142172
Coon.........?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hook line & sinker. The commission is so great & the difference between them getting you say 1m or 950k makes virtually no difference to them & a 961 Norton to you.
They're working for a sale at any cost & their commission, plain & simple.
One told me "all we want is agreement between two parties"

indeed. Also you will be aware that they get paid (from the deposit) EVEN IF THE DEAL DOES NOT SETTLE - all they want is an agreement declared unconditional and at that point they giggle, trouser the comm, and literally could not give a fuck after.

My favourite story about real estate agents this month is racism. White agent (crusty middle aged fuckwit) refused to engage with one of my clients who was interested in pursuing an industrial building listing. She happens to be Chinese, and youngish (maybe 35?) and have a couple of kids (and an MBA). He clearly did not get the idea that she was WAY more clued than him, already owns an industrial and commercial portfolio worth a fair few million, and is way brighter than him. The $200k Porshe SUV, the Chanel handbag, and the shoes didnt give it away apparently. Nor did my request for the due diligence materials and so forth either.

She got bored, so bought the one down the road (cash). Fucktard phoned me on Friday when another deal fell through.... Yeah nah mate, bought something else (and privately told me she would never deal with him again no matter what he was selling). LOLZ

[jasonu]

Coon.........?

Got a better word for that pos?

[skippa1]

Got a better word for that pos?
POS isbetter than coon

[AllanB]

8 years for this fucking coon. What a joke!!! Sounds like he'll be out in just a couple.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12142172


I agree with the victim - 8 years is not enough for that piece of shit waste of air - and he will be out in under half that.

I may be old fashioned but there was something to be said for throwing a rope around a tree ........

Then again with enough tax payer paid hugs and counselling he may live a useful life making up for his youthful wrong doings proving me wrong.

Meanwhile the mother and child will never forget their encounter with him regardless of the lack of public funded attention they will receive.......

Jacinda will fix it with a sideways incline of her head and flash of the pearly whites no doubt. Oh hang on she is in bed with the Greens - nah - the crim will get all the funding, care and attention. Maybe use a rope fashioned from hemp as a compromise?

[F5 Dave]

We can't just show him the same level of Mercy bestowed on his victims. What sort of lesson would that teach him?
Best we just hope it doesn't happen again.

[husaberg]

We can't just show him the same level of Mercy bestowed on his victims. What sort of lesson would that teach him?
Best we just hope it doesn't happen again.
He might well be the next supreme curt judge..
that said its pretty shit to think he might be out in two years

[sidecar bob]

Not sure how this didn't make the news, maybe the guy doesn't want any publicity.
A very good mate of mine & godfather of my kids came home to his rural block near Te Puke on Friday night & went to feed his three highland cattle (all which have names) & found that one had been shot & had a rear leg removed where it lay, no doubt for a hangi.
The poor dude is inconsolable.

[husaberg]

Not sure how this didn't make the news, maybe the guy doesn't want any publicity.
A very good mate of mine & godfather of my kids came home to his rural block near Te Puke on Friday night & went to feed his three highland cattle (all which have names) & found that one had been shot & had a rear leg removed where it lay, no doubt for a hangi.
The poor dude is inconsolable.

It didnt make the news as it happens all to often
Entire flocks of sheep disappear even unit loads of dairy cattle (40-50) at a time.

[jasonu]

Not sure how this didn't make the news, maybe the guy doesn't want any publicity.
A very good mate of mine & godfather of my kids came home to his rural block near Te Puke on Friday night & went to feed his three highland cattle (all which have names) & found that one had been shot & had a rear leg removed where it lay, no doubt for a hangi.
The poor dude is inconsolable.

I remember many moons ago a story on the news about a horse that was being kept in a paddock in Glen Innes being killed by a wack to the head and a hind quarter hacked off. A few days later an update said don't eat the meat as the animal had just been drenched (or what ever you rural types do to livestock) and the meat was dangerous to eat. Turns out some tufaloafa potted in his cuzzie when he saw a freezer full of mystery meat. Shame the prick didn't eat it.

[Ginge09]

8 years for this fucking coon. What a joke!!! Sounds like he'll be out in just a couple.

I'm with skippa1 on this. That's a shitty word that's irrelevant to the substance of the rant.

Your post history demonstrates you're prone to using similar shitty words. I'd quote them but you're not worth the bandwidth.

Troll elsewhere. We'll debate our own backwater shithole.

[russd7]

Not sure how this didn't make the news, maybe the guy doesn't want any publicity.
A very good mate of mine & godfather of my kids came home to his rural block near Te Puke on Friday night & went to feed his three highland cattle (all which have names) & found that one had been shot & had a rear leg removed where it lay, no doubt for a hangi.
The poor dude is inconsolable.
ahhhh that sucks, thats my hometown.

[buggerit]

We can't just show him the same level of Mercy bestowed on his victims. What sort of lesson would that teach him?
Best we just hope it doesn't happen again.

Is it still one ball for first offence?:eek5:

[jasonu]

I'm with skippa1 on this. That's a shitty word that's irrelevant to the substance of the rant.

Your post history demonstrates you're prone to using similar shitty words. I'd quote them but you're not worth the bandwidth.

Troll elsewhere. We'll debate our own backwater shithole.

Lighten up sista.

[Jin]

I remember many moons ago a story on the news about a horse that was being kept in a paddock in Glen Innes being killed by a wack to the head and a hind quarter hacked off. A few days later an update said don't eat the meat as the animal had just been drenched (or what ever you rural types do to livestock) and the meat was dangerous to eat. Turns out some tufaloafa potted in his cuzzie when he saw a freezer full of mystery meat. Shame the prick didn't eat it.I remember that. Pretty sure was '91 or '92.

[pritch]

I agree with the victim - 8 years is not enough for that piece of shit waste of air - and he will be out in under half that.


IIRC it was Matt Robson who "overhauled" our justice system and reduced the time served to one third of the sentence.

The far left like to say that prison doesn't work. I disagree, if the criminals are locked up they can't commit crimes.

This guy is noted to be of particularly low intelligence so it's unlikely he'll learn anything from his experience. He gets six months off for time served so in a bit over eighteen months he could be out repeating his performance.

I can't help feeling that the victim made a good move escaping. Had she driven him to where he wanted to go, the story may have had a very different ending.

[Ocean1]

IIRC it was Matt Robson who "overhauled" our justice system and reduced the time served to one third of the sentence.

The far left like to say that prison doesn't work. I disagree, if the criminals are locked up they can't commit crimes.

This guy is noted to be of particularly low intelligence so it's unlikely he'll learn anything from his experience. He gets six months off for time served so in a bit over eighteen months he could be out repeating his performance.

I can't help feeling that the victim made a good move escaping. Had she driven him to where he wanted to go, the story may have had a very different ending.

Well the left have a point. If you expect the justice system to "correct" criminal behaviour that is.

Who's idea was that, anyway, to call it "corrections"? Sounds very labour/progressive: Change it's name to represent what you think it should be and then blame it when that doesn't work the way you think it should.

Personally I'd be happier with: "Self-funding exile" Got a nice ring to it. Pretty sure it'd do exactly what's on the label, too.

[TheDemonLord]

IIRC it was Matt Robson who "overhauled" our justice system and reduced the time served to one third of the sentence.

The far left like to say that prison doesn't work. I disagree, if the criminals are locked up they can't commit crimes.

This guy is noted to be of particularly low intelligence so it's unlikely he'll learn anything from his experience. He gets six months off for time served so in a bit over eighteen months he could be out repeating his performance.

I can't help feeling that the victim made a good move escaping. Had she driven him to where he wanted to go, the story may have had a very different ending.

Whilst I'm no lover of the Far-Left - if the goal is on rehabilitation and re-introduction into society, then our traditional prison model really doesn't work. Our Recidivism rates are higher, especially when we look at the Scandinavian models for Prisons.

[jasonu]

Whilst I'm no lover of the Far-Left - if the goal is on rehabilitation and re-introduction into society, then our traditional prison model really doesn't work. Our Recidivism rates are higher, especially when we look at the Scandinavian models for Prisons.

This is how prisons should be. Fucking so scary you REALLY don't want to be there.
http://natgeotv.com/asia/inside-russias-toughest-prisons/videos/black-dolphin-prison

[pritch]

Whilst I'm no lover of the Far-Left - if the goal is on rehabilitation and re-introduction into society, then our traditional prison model really doesn't work. Our Recidivism rates are higher, especially when we look at the Scandinavian models for Prisons.

Nah. They are sent to jail to be locked up. They couldn't live within society's rules so they are removed from society. Rehabilitation is a bonus, and it's nice, but it is not why they are there.

[TheDemonLord]

Nah. They are sent to jail to be locked up. They couldn't live within society's rules so they are removed from society. Rehabilitation is a bonus, and it's nice, but it is not why they are there.

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?


This is how prisons should be. Fucking so scary you REALLY don't want to be there.
http://natgeotv.com/asia/inside-russias-toughest-prisons/videos/black-dolphin-prison

Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

[Ocean1]

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?



Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

Well they certainly fucking don't if there's never been any consequences for them. Ping 'em young and make it hurt, no consequences for shoplifting and general minor thuggery isn't giving them enough rope, it isn't giving them room to grow, it does nothing to ameliorate a hard home life, all it teaches them is that there's no consequences.

There's a reason kids join gangs, they're designed to integrate into a tribe, one with a hierarchy and a set of rules with consequences attached. If you don't give them one then they'll go find one, and once the're integrated there they're no longer of your tribe, you might as well shoot them. So SHOW them their tribes rules ffs, and help them figure out how to manage them without fucking up.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?



Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

we could, I dunno, transport them to the colonies.

[pritch]

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison


I'm certainly looking forward to your account of all the rehabilitation facilities available in prison. The only former inmates I've spoken to about prison didn't mention any.

I did receive an interesting description of the random drug testing program though. :whistle:

[FJRider]

I did receive an interesting description of the random drug testing program though. :whistle:

And if they get a positive result ... what do they do .. lock them up ... ??

[oldrider]

And if they get a positive result ... what do they do .. lock them up ... ??

Probably lock em out - that would be their worst case scenario! :msn-wink:

[FJRider]

Probably lock em out - that would be their worst case scenario! :msn-wink:

Yep ... home detention. Let their family feed/house/entertain them.

[pete376403]

we could, I dunno, transport them to the colonies.

That was tried. Australia is sending them all back

[jasonu]

And if they get a positive result ... what do they do .. lock them up ... ??

The stupid NZ criminal 'justice' system would give them an additional 6 months for a failed drug test..................to be served currently with the original sentence.

[TheDemonLord]

Well they certainly fucking don't if there's never been any consequences for them. Ping 'em young and make it hurt, no consequences for shoplifting and general minor thuggery isn't giving them enough rope, it isn't giving them room to grow, it does nothing to ameliorate a hard home life, all it teaches them is that there's no consequences.

There's a reason kids join gangs, they're designed to integrate into a tribe, one with a hierarchy and a set of rules with consequences attached. If you don't give them one then they'll go find one, and once the're integrated there they're no longer of your tribe, you might as well shoot them. So SHOW them their tribes rules ffs, and help them figure out how to manage them without fucking up.

I partly agree, but I think it's also missing a Mission - if you go with the cliche story of generic Rebellious young male goes into the Military and comes out a productive member of society - Rules are needed, Meritocracy is needed, Heirachy and consequences are needed - but also is a purpose - a Mission.

It's one thing to know where you are, another to know where you need to go. Thinking along another highly social, predatory Mammal - anyone who has had an intelligent dog breed will know the Axiom of "If you don't give your dog something to do, they will find something to do and it won't be something you like".

[TheDemonLord]

I'm certainly looking forward to your account of all the rehabilitation facilities available in prison. The only former inmates I've spoken to about prison didn't mention any.

I did receive an interesting description of the random drug testing program though. :whistle:

Well, I did say "Should" did I not?

Point is - if all we do is send them to prison, let them out, wait for them to re-offend (which with our recidivism rates is quite likely) then send them back etc. etc. - what is the point?

However, consider this - we send them to prison, we provide them with tools and methods to be a productive member of society, they get out, integrate back into society and start to be productive citizens.

Which version tells the better story?

[Katman]

Probably lock em out - that would be their worst case scenario!

Well I rub shoulders with a lot of people who have been inside - and I've yet to have one of them suggest they'd prefer to be back there.

[jasonu]

Well I rub shoulders with a lot of people who have been inside - and I've yet to have one of them suggest they'd prefer to be back there.

Are any of them still committing crimes?

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Yep ... home detention. Let their family feed/house/entertain them.

Nope, they’re on Sickness Benefit.
Taxpayer pays, either in, or out of prison.

[FJRider]

Nope, they’re on Sickness Benefit.
Taxpayer pays, either in, or out of prison.

Do you know what it costs to house and feed one prisoner for a year ... ???

[pritch]

Point is - if all we do is send them to prison, let them out, wait for them to re-offend (which with our recidivism rates is quite likely) then send them back etc. etc. - what is the point?


The point is that while they are locked up they can't commit crimes. Well OK, they can commit crimes against each other but...

A number of people have told me, "They don't learn anything in prison". I'd answer that by saying you go to school to learn, you go to prison to be locked up. If these people followed the KISS principle they'd be less confused.

A thought on the "soft" nature of our prisons - military prisons are much less comfortable than civilian prisons. Get off the transport looking staunch and you get an uppercut right there and then - true story. I'm not totally up to date but in one system there was no TV and the only reading material was a bible - if you requested one. On arrival you were presented a tin of boot polish and a tin of Brasso, first job was remove all the paint off both tins and polish them. Another regime had prisoners filling sandbags in the tropical sun to a predetermined rate. At "smoko" time new prisoners got to stand to attention in the sun for 10 minutes. Whichever regime, the specialty is making you work hard at something, usually something that is utterly pointless. Polish barbed wire. Dig a hole - fill it in. Basically whatever they can dream up that will piss you off.

Because they are so much harder than a civilian prison the maximum term in a military prison was six months.

And no, I have no first hand experience, but almost everybody I know who went, went more than once. So talking about less comfy prisons is missing the point. What keeps most of us out of prison is fear of the unknown. Once the unknown is known...

[Katman]

Are any of them still committing crimes?

Possibly - I don't ask them.

My point is that re-offending is usually due to a wide range of issues.

Many ex-prisoners have anger issues, many have alcohol issues, many have drug issues, many have money issues, many have family issues and many have mental health issues.

I imagine that the number who re-offend simply because they want to go back inside would be extremely samll.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Do you know what it costs to house and feed one prisoner for a year ... ???

You’re right, it is cheaper to pay them the benefit, on the outside.
Point still stands however, either in or out they’re paid by the taxpayer.:argh:

[F5 Dave]

The cost of benefits on the outside is only part, a small part of the story if they are reoffending. Name the damage and expensive resources to catch and prosecute them, but the loss of productivity of the victims, not to mention the pain and anguish.

Evil fuckers should be removed from society.

That said, I've had my mind changed somewhat watching a couple of documentaries on US system. Man it is seriously broken. But there are lessons for here, and they don't just involve a hammer as the only tool.

The war on drugs hasn't worked. Some countries are adapting their policies and having better outcomes .

[Delerium]

I agree with the victim - 8 years is not enough for that piece of shit waste of air - and he will be out in under half that.

I may be old fashioned but there was something to be said for throwing a rope around a tree ........

Then again with enough tax payer paid hugs and counselling he may live a useful life making up for his youthful wrong doings proving me wrong.

Meanwhile the mother and child will never forget their encounter with him regardless of the lack of public funded attention they will receive.......

Jacinda will fix it with a sideways incline of her head and flash of the pearly whites no doubt. Oh hang on she is in bed with the Greens - nah - the crim will get all the funding, care and attention. Maybe use a rope fashioned from hemp as a compromise?

Oh you noticed the frequently used concerned nod she uses too

[TheDemonLord]

The point is that while they are locked up they can't commit crimes. Well OK, they can commit crimes against each other but...

A number of people have told me, "They don't learn anything in prison". I'd answer that by saying you go to school to learn, you go to prison to be locked up. If these people followed the KISS principle they'd be less confused.

A thought on the "soft" nature of our prisons - military prisons are much less comfortable than civilian prisons. Get off the transport looking staunch and you get an uppercut right there and then - true story. I'm not totally up to date but in one system there was no TV and the only reading material was a bible - if you requested one. On arrival you were presented a tin of boot polish and a tin of Brasso, first job was remove all the paint off both tins and polish them. Another regime had prisoners filling sandbags in the tropical sun to a predetermined rate. At "smoko" time new prisoners got to stand to attention in the sun for 10 minutes. Whichever regime, the specialty is making you work hard at something, usually something that is utterly pointless. Polish barbed wire. Dig a hole - fill it in. Basically whatever they can dream up that will piss you off.

Because they are so much harder than a civilian prison the maximum term in a military prison was six months.

And no, I have no first hand experience, but almost everybody I know who went, went more than once. So talking about less comfy prisons is missing the point. What keeps most of us out of prison is fear of the unknown. Once the unknown is known...

If you want Prisons to be Pain and Suffering - why not bring back Torture?

But I think you've rather made my point for me - with the Methods you outline, "almost everybody I know who went, went more than once." What is the point then? They go in, they go out, they go in, they go out - if nothing changes why bother letting them out? If you are not going to let them out, why bother letting them live?

And if it makes you happy - a part of me would rather that Prisons were some form of mini-hell-on-earth to Scare the living piss out of Criminals into not committing crime - but the Rational part knows that doesn't work.

I'd rather a prisoner go into prison once, learn how to be a productive member of society, come out, be productive and never go back.

[Ocean1]

If you want Prisons to be Pain and Suffering - why not bring back Torture?

But I think you've rather made my point for me - with the Methods you outline, "almost everybody I know who went, went more than once." What is the point then? They go in, they go out, they go in, they go out - if nothing changes why bother letting them out? If you are not going to let them out, why bother letting them live?

And if it makes you happy - a part of me would rather that Prisons were some form of mini-hell-on-earth to Scare the living piss out of Criminals into not committing crime - but the Rational part knows that doesn't work.

I'd rather a prisoner go into prison once, learn how to be a productive member of society, come out, be productive and never go back.

Again: make the cunts earn the price of their continued existence, until someone teaches them the value of actual work and the natural consequences of not doing enough of it they'll simply never change. Seriously, how many of them have ever been exposed to the natural effects of not earning their keep? And you expect them to change, having never had any "corrective" guidance at all?

$100k per year is it? Fine, give 'em choices as to how they're going to produce that, or starve.

[TheDemonLord]

Again: make the cunts earn the price of their continued existence, until someone teaches them the value of actual work and the natural consequences of not doing enough of it they'll simply never change. Seriously, how many of them have ever been exposed to the natural effects of not earning their keep? And you expect them to change, having never had any "corrective" guidance at all?

$100k per year is it? Fine, give 'em choices as to how they're going to produce that, or starve.

You're all Stick and no Carrot.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with the statement "Actions need to have consequences" - I'm saying that on top of that, we need to give them a vision of a better way to live.

[Black Knight]

I recently read an article on prisons in Brazil where for every book a prisoner reads and gives a written review on, he gets 4 days knocked off his sentence-I thought that wasn't a bad idea.

[Ocean1]

You're all Stick and no Carrot.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with the statement "Actions need to have consequences" - I'm saying that on top of that, we need to give them a vision of a better way to live.

Well it's become abundantly obvious over the last few decades that all carrot and no stick ain't worth shit.

And real, unregulated life is historically devoid of carrots you didn't grow yourself, and full of sticks wielded by cunts that grew fuck all and want yours.

The natural consequence of which, as you pointed out, is to gather the neighbors and shoot the cunts.

So let's clarify that vision by leaning just slightly back towards some real world experience, eh?

[pritch]

If you want Prisons to be Pain and Suffering - why not bring back Torture?


If you managed to take that out of anything I wrote your comprehension skills are seriously out of whack. It's almost as if you don't read what's written - you read some alternative that fits your preconceived notions.

I didn't make your point, I made my own, that making prisons less pleasant doesn't actually seem to be very effective.

Many prisoners are ummm "cognitively challenged", plans involving teaching them anything would be difficult to implement in any meaningful way. All previous attempts at education having failed.

Prisoners used to work prison farms, they used to paint cars in a Wellington car assembly plant (actually against UN policy, something something slave labour?), and they used to make office desks for government departments. What they do these days to learn a marketable skill, or asist with their own upkeep, I have no idea.

[Katman]

And real, unregulated life is historically devoid of carrots you didn't grow yourself, and full of sticks wielded by cunts that grew fuck all and want yours.

The natural consequence of which, as you pointed out, is to gather the neighbors and shoot the cunts.

And you have the gall to accuse me of misanthropy.

:killingme

[Banditbandit]

I agree with the victim - 8 years is not enough for that piece of shit waste of air - and he will be out in under half that.

I may be old fashioned but there was something to be said for throwing a rope around a tree ........

Then again with enough tax payer paid hugs and counselling he may live a useful life making up for his youthful wrong doings proving me wrong.

Meanwhile the mother and child will never forget their encounter with him regardless of the lack of public funded attention they will receive.......

Jacinda will fix it with a sideways incline of her head and flash of the pearly whites no doubt. Oh hang on she is in bed with the Greens - nah - the crim will get all the funding, care and attention. Maybe use a rope fashioned from hemp as a compromise?

Prisoners are illegible to APPLY to the parole board for release after one third of their sentence ... that does not mean they necessarily get it ..

The Parole Board releases something like 25% of those who apply ...

New Zealand's longest serving prisoner has been locked up since 1968 .. he was last denied parole in 2015 ..

He is NOT a murderer ..

[F5 Dave]

I have always thought the parole board should have to have every third early release staying at their house for a week and see how careful they are letting them stay somewhere in a community next to your child's school.

[Grumph]

Prisoners used to work prison farms, they used to paint cars in a Wellington car assembly plant (actually against UN policy, something something slave labour?), and they used to make office desks for government departments. What they do these days to learn a marketable skill, or asist with their own upkeep, I have no idea.

Well, Paparoa, just out of ChCh is the largest organic vege supplier in NZ. Programme started by a keen motorcycle racer too...
I believe they're currently churning out relocatable houses too - and qualified builders labourers as a side product.

[husaberg]

Well, Paparoa, just out of ChCh is the largest organic vege supplier in NZ. Programme started by a keen motorcycle racer too...
I believe they're currently churning out relocatable houses too - and qualified builders labourers as a side product.


Plenty of Pigs
I think they used to make wooden Pallets as well

[jasonu]

What the fuck is this bullshit?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12151406

[oldrider]

What the fuck is this bullshit?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12151406

Just what you said it is - it's "bullshit" - of the highest order! :facepalm:

[bikaholic]

To be fair a condition of residency is he is not allowed to provide false information to a government agency for five years.
How many MPs can keep that up.

[jasonu]

Look at this bullshit. No swift justice in Un Zud.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12161145

[seattle smitty]

Since I'm know nothing about your local issues, let me comment on something now back a couple of pages:


Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?



Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.


Well, D-Lord, last part first, these guys are like motorcyclists in thinking they can get away with what they do indefinately, and some do.

As to "just kill them," one of the regular annoyances of being an American is being lectured by all of the more "progressive" folk in the UK and Europe about our "barbaric and archaic" death penalty. The Economist, otherwise one of the few remaining newsmagazines worth reading, is unable to put out an issue without waving its finger at us. Well, I'm glad that OUR general response is to give them the finger. I say that any society which is incapable of executing, for instance, a man who rapes a little girl and then cuts off her arms and legs, has showed itself to be impotent in asserting basic justice. A man who has made thievery his life's work has cancelled his right to live among us, even as a permanently imprisoned ward of honest taxpayers.

About a year ago, I was reading and watching my clothes in a coin-op laundry when I struck up a conversation with an older (but younger than me) black man. He told me he was nearing retirement after many years as a prison guard, having worked in federal, state, and local facilities at various points. I asked him what he thought about the chances of typical inmates of actually being rehabilitated. He snorted derisively and said, "They're all wise guys! It's how they see themselves, and it's what they want to be. They think everybody cheats and works the system, and that they were just unlucky enough to get caught. They have a million excuses for this, that they had no connections, or were the wrong color, you name it." He thought a little more, and said, "Oh, there are a few who can be rehabilitated, but mostly it's a waste of time with these guys."

[jasonu]

Cunts like this should be kicked into a hole and shot but instead they get let off multiple times until they finally do something really bad.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/Marie-Harlick-killed-by-domestic-violence/

[pete376403]

Cunts like this should be kicked into a hole and shot but instead they get let off multiple times until they finally do something really bad.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/Marie-Harlick-killed-by-domestic-violence/

But WTF is the judge on? To let this cunt go again and again, while all the "agencies" run and hide to pretend they were not aware of the problem? The only people who come out of this looking ok are the poice, and they get ignored.

[RDJ]

But WTF is the judge on? To let this cunt go again and again, while all the "agencies" run and hide to pretend they were not aware of the problem? The only people who come out of this looking ok are the poice, and they get ignored.

Criminals are not all stupid. They do not go after judges* / lawyers.

* The likelihood of a judge or judge's family being attacked / assaulted / killed is actually slightly more than two orders of magnitude less than for us gen. pop. So - judges can signal their virtue by letting the murderous / rapists etc. out on bail or free, without fear of any consequences for them. We cannot even democratically get a judge recalled. Plus, platinum-plated super, and really really short working hours.

** Remember one exception - the guy who machete-attacked Judge Augusta Wallace in chambers? Want an example of one law for thee and another for me? Check what happened to that guy...

[F5 Dave]

I'm pretty good at judging people, how do I get in.?

[TheDemonLord]

Since I'm know nothing about your local issues, let me comment on something now back a couple of pages:

Well, D-Lord, last part first, these guys are like motorcyclists in thinking they can get away with what they do indefinately, and some do.

And that's the point - it's not the severity of the punishment that is the real deterrent - it's the likelihood of getting Caught.


As to "just kill them," one of the regular annoyances of being an American is being lectured by all of the more "progressive" folk in the UK and Europe about our "barbaric and archaic" death penalty. The Economist, otherwise one of the few remaining newsmagazines worth reading, is unable to put out an issue without waving its finger at us. Well, I'm glad that OUR general response is to give them the finger. I say that any society which is incapable of executing, for instance, a man who rapes a little girl and then cuts off her arms and legs, has showed itself to be impotent in asserting basic justice. A man who has made thievery his life's work has cancelled his right to live among us, even as a permanently imprisoned ward of honest taxpayers.

So - by what means do you use to draw the line? and then using said means - WHERE do you draw the line? I've got a fair amount of issue with the US use of the Death Penalty - FWIW - the closest country that maintains capital punishment that I agree with, would be Japan.

The main points of contention being that I don't consider a single Murder grounds for the Death Penalty, nor do I consider the redefinition of per-meditation in some states to be fractions of seconds of thought before committing the act.


About a year ago, I was reading and watching my clothes in a coin-op laundry when I struck up a conversation with an older (but younger than me) black man. He told me he was nearing retirement after many years as a prison guard, having worked in federal, state, and local facilities at various points. I asked him what he thought about the chances of typical inmates of actually being rehabilitated. He snorted derisively and said, "They're all wise guys! It's how they see themselves, and it's what they want to be. They think everybody cheats and works the system, and that they were just unlucky enough to get caught. They have a million excuses for this, that they had no connections, or were the wrong color, you name it." He thought a little more, and said, "Oh, there are a few who can be rehabilitated, but mostly it's a waste of time with these guys."

Okay - so the national Average for re-offending for the US (from 2011) is 43%, For Norway - it's 20%, so half of the US.

Now - if we want a system of pain, suffering etc. - then let's bring back torture, let's go all in with the Death Penalty etc. etc. and let's take a long, hard look at ourselves when our Justice looks more like ISIS.

If, however - we want a system that unfortunate, unlucky, damaged, criminally hardened, desperate etc. individuals enter into, and leave (with an 80% success rate) as productive members of society, then perhaps it's time to rethink our approach.

I can assure you - this is not something that sits well with me either, to dispense with the 'punishment' aspect of prison seems an affront to my natural sense of Justice - and yet, I'd rather have a system that fixes or re-skills individuals so that they can come back to society and be productive.

[Drew]

I can assure you - this is not something that sits well with me either, to dispense with the 'punishment' aspect of prison seems an affront to my natural sense of Justice - and yet, I'd rather have a system that fixes or re-skills individuals so that they can come back to society and be productive.

You'll never have to worry about it, kiwis would throw a shit fit if the government spent any resources on bettering criminals.

The thread title is particularly apt.

[Ocean1]

You'll never have to worry about it, kiwis would throw a shit fit if the government spent any resources on bettering criminals.

The thread title is particularly apt.

Dude, by the time they hit pokey every single one of them has had multiple chances to behave in a way that doesn't hurt their fellow Kiwis, and declined every single one of those chances.

Every one of them has already shown that they're not prepared to be responsible for their own behavior, over and over again. Could we spend even more on "rehabilitating" them? Sure, and for some of them it might actually work. But unless you've got some new amazingly effective way to spend all that extra then the law of diminishing returns applies, and the public cost of their behavior is already hideous. Every criminal has already cost Kiwi taxpayers more than they could ever repay, even if they did straighten up and fly right, how much more do you want to spend on yet more chances?

So let's not try to pretend it's the general public's fault that criminals are criminals, eh?

[TheDemonLord]

You'll never have to worry about it, kiwis would throw a shit fit if the government spent any resources on bettering criminals.

The thread title is particularly apt.

Well hang on a second there.

Ocean raises a good point that many of the Criminals have had an exceptionally disproportionate amount spent on them, made even more horrendous by the fact they both contribute nothing and cost others.

On the flip side though - there have been many well meaning, but poorly thought out programs that have cost the taxpayer lots, with little to no return on investment.

If you tell me - that with some investment, you could guarantee me that 80% of people that went through the Prison system, never went back in - I'd be interested.

Of course - if I do my Ocean impression, if that guarantee is breached, there would also have to be some form of penalty for those that failed to implement it.

[Dadpole]

Every released prisoner who does not re-offend saves the taxpayer many times the cost of rehab.

Offering no rehabilitation only ensures high rates of re-offending. This is a winning policy when a country has privately run prisons and business wants more of the taxpayers money.

[jasonu]

So let's not try to pretend it's the general public's fault that criminals are criminals, eh?

Unless of course the crim is a maori in which case it is the white mother fuckers system that dun did it...

[Drew]

Didn't mean to imply it was the fault of anyone but the criminal.

[Banditbandit]

Well hang on a second there.

Ocean raises a good point that many of the Criminals have had an exceptionally disproportionate amount spent on them, made even more horrendous by the fact they both contribute nothing and cost others.

On the flip side though - there have been many well meaning, but poorly thought out programs that have cost the taxpayer lots, with little to no return on investment.

If you tell me - that with some investment, you could guarantee me that 80% of people that went through the Prison system, never went back in - I'd be interested.

Of course - if I do my Ocean impression, if that guarantee is breached, there would also have to be some form of penalty for those that failed to implement it.



OK - so NZ has an incarceration rate second only to the US - and a recidivism rate of about 70% - "70% of prisoners reoffend within two years of being released from prison and 52% return to prison within five years (some of them more than once). For teenage prisoners, the recidivism rate (return to prison) is 71%." (Corrections Department stats, 2009.


Sweden where prisons focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment has reduced it's prison population from 5,722 to 4,500 (2014) - that's a drop of just over 21%. Their recidivism rate has dropped to 40% and they have closed a number of prisons.

""It has to do with whether you decide to use prison as your first option or as a last resort, and what you want your probation system to achieve," he told the Guardian. "Some people have to be incarcerated, but it has to be a goal to get them back out into society in better shape than they were when they came in."

So - they seem to have got it right - maybe we could learn something - but it is pretty clear that our system is not working .


https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1131117314

[Ocean1]

Of course - if I do my Ocean impression, if that guarantee is breached, there would also have to be some form of penalty for those that failed to implement it.

God, apparently is in charge of punishment, I'm not interested.

I'm interested in simply segregating them from those who will otherwise pay the cost of their repeated antisocial behavior. Again.

In exactly the same vein I also don't see why they should expect those same people from whom they're being segregated to cover all of the cost of that segregation, that simply extends the price of their poor behavior even further.

[F5 Dave]

God, apparently is in charge of punishment, I'm not interested.
. . . .

Don't be like that, it's quite simple, I'll fill you in.

So God, he's a bit like Santa if you think about it. Except without the presents. He created the earth and the heavens as well as the world's biggest bbq to torture, well most of the world's population. For eternity no less.
He appointed satan as head chef.
But I imagine like most bbqs the men all stand around offering their opinions on char or flame grilling the dammed.

So have you been naughty or nice?

[Laava]

Don't be like that, it's quite simple, I'll fill you in.

So God, he's a bit like Santa if you think about it. Except without the presents. He created the earth and the heavens as well as the world's biggest bbq to torture, well most of the world's population. For eternity no less.
He appointed satan as head chef.
But I imagine like most bbqs the men all stand around offering their opinions on char or flame grilling the dammed.

So have you been naughty or nice?
Will there be beer?

[F5 Dave]

Tui I guess. Maybe Reineck. Worth going to church to avoid.

[Voltaire]

Tui I guess. Maybe Reineck. Worth going to church to avoid.

What no Leopard Lager?



https://www.taverntrove.com/watermark.php?pid=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuVGF2ZXJuVHJvdmUu Y29tL2JlZXJwaWNzL0xlb3BhcmQtTGFnZXItQ2Fucy1TZWxmLU 9wZW5pbmctMTAtMTJvei1MZW9wYXJkLUJyZXdlcnktTHRkXzI3 NzE3LTEuanBn

[sidecar bob]

Only going off Christians I have met, I'd be really happy not to be stuck with such a bunch of hypocrites with no moral compass for all eternity.

[Laava]

Only going off Christians I have met, I'd be really happy not to be stuck with such a bunch of hypocrites with no moral compass for all eternity.
Yeah but which theoretical post life hangout do you think they will be hanging out in?

[F5 Dave]

Well they'll be dead and that somewhat curtails the options to nil.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah but which theoretical post life hangout do you think they will be hanging out in?

I hope it's not the one I'm in ..

[husaberg]

Well they'll be dead and that somewhat curtails the options to nil.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
Yet there are 8.23 million Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide

It seems like the bus ride is already over subscribed.

[Drew]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
Yet there are 8.23 million Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide

It seems like the bus ride is already over subscribed.
They also believe that children younger than 8 get in automatically. So that 144,000 is well fucking reduced already

[F5 Dave]

And there's over 7 billion on the planet currently, not counting countless generations before.

Turn out God hates most everyone that ever lived.

Heaven; what a backwater shithole.

[sidecar bob]

Well this is all throwing up more questions than answers & we haven't even touched on child cancer yet.
Where's Edbear when you need him.

[jasonu]

The story that keeps on giving. What a fucking joke.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12167868

[HenryDorsetCase]

The story that keeps on giving. What a fucking joke.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12167868

I have some sympathy for the Minister because this is yet another case where the faceless bureaucrats will never be outed but they're the ones who fucked it up royally. Having said that in a parliamentary democracy the buck stops with him, and if he does not resign I think he has created a chink for the fascists so he will be shuffled out of the portfolio in the pre-election positioning. Give it to Eugenie Sage I reckon.

Or Winston.

[F5 Dave]

Winston for sure.

Sorry there sonnymyjim your application suggests that you're not a kiwis. Out you go.


As far as getting people to resign for other people's fuck ups, well that's like those let's fire the coach every time those biffheads lose a game of rugby.

[jasonu]

Winston for sure.

Sorry there sonnymyjim your application suggests that you're not a kiwis. Out you go.


As far as getting people to resign for other people's fuck ups, well that's like those let's fire the coach every time those biffheads lose a game of rugby.

He is the one at the top who almost no one voted for and is making the big bucks to make the correct decisions. Fuck him.