New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

[mashman]

Im smart enough to know capitalism isnt going anywhere anytime soon.


You and I both know that that ain't happening any time soon.

:killingme

https://thejosevilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/yoda-fail-whale.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

You're on a list.

If history is anything to go by, that List is the one just before the list that you are/will be on.

So I'd think carefully before rejoicing.

[Woodman]

Has Capitalism fucked it more or less than any other Economic System as yet invented?

Because despite Comrade Jacinda's efforts - we don't have (yet) the Gulags, Stasi, 'disapearances' and mass Genocides that accompany the alternative Economic Systems.

The economic system is the problem. It needs to go.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_gP4GFUnS8

[TheDemonLord]

The economic system is the problem. It needs to go.

We are the Economic System.


Meditate on that.

[jasonu]

3rd world shithole

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264174

[Viking01]

https://www.euronews.com/2019/08/29/is-europe-losing-ground-in-its-fight-against-measles

[onearmedbandit]

3rd world shithole

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264174

The same shit is happening worldwide though.

[pete376403]

The same shit is happening worldwide though.

And in every case, it is not becuase the country concerned is a shithole, it's the shithole people who are dumb enough to beileve the anti vaxxers

[Woodman]

We are the Economic System.


Meditate on that.

We are heavily involved in it. But it's a fuckup. It is rampantly fucking the place. Anyone who can't see that is not honest with themselves. Or stupid.

[oldrider]

We are heavily involved in it. But it's a fuckup. It is rampantly fucking the place. Anyone who can't see that is not honest with themselves. Or stupid.

Absolutely correct - there is a cure - those who control it right now do not want to let it go - alas most of those who want to change it actually support the current controllers! - :facepalm:

Fix that and Bob's your uncle - no problem aye? - :msn-wink:

[TheDemonLord]

We are heavily involved in it. But it's a fuckup. It is rampantly fucking the place. Anyone who can't see that is not honest with themselves. Or stupid.

Is it the System or those who partake and perpetuate the System that are truly at fault then?



You blame the system, but you actively take part in and benefit from it - Does that not strike you as a tad hypocritical?

[mashman]

Absolutely correct - there is a cure - those who control it right now do not want to let it go - alas most of those who want to change it actually support the current controllers! - :facepalm:

Fix that and Bob's your uncle - no problem aye? - :msn-wink:

:killingme... "We" put "them" there by virtue of our economic activity. "They" are the logical outcome of any and every financial system there has ever been or will be. The evidence is undeniable, but please by all means go ahead and ignore that it is not "they" who are trashing the place, because they merely reap the rewards as the owners of production. It is "We" who are destroying the place to provide goods/services for each other. This, again, is exceptionally well evidenced. So exactly what are "They" responsible for? ;)

[Woodman]

Is it the System or those who partake and perpetuate the System that are truly at fault then?



You blame the system, but you actively take part in and benefit from it - Does that not strike you as a tad hypocritical?

Please don't try to be more inellectualler than you are.

Yes I do use and benefit from the economic system and am increasingly unhappy about it. Doesn't change the fact that it's a fuckup.

[TheDemonLord]

Please don't try to be more inellectualler than you are.

Yes I do use and benefit from the economic system and am increasingly unhappy about it. Doesn't change the fact that it's a fuckup.

Right.

So, if you want me (and others like me) to give any credence to your argument, then stop using and benefiting from the Economic System that you claim to oppose.

Therein lies the problem. Namely that for all it's faults, it is still better than any of the alternatives - as evidenced by the fact that yourself still use and benefit from it.

All we hear is 'The system is broken' and never the conversation "That we are Broken"

[onearmedbandit]

It's a very good point. After all, for a system to be exploited it requires people to do exactly that.

[Katman]

Right.

So, if you want me (and others like me) to give any credence to your argument, then stop using and benefiting from the Economic System that you claim to oppose.

Therein lies the problem. Namely that for all it's faults, it is still better than any of the alternatives - as evidenced by the fact that yourself still use and benefit from it.

All we hear is 'The system is broken' and never the conversation "That we are Broken"

You can still change the world - while living in the world.

[TheDemonLord]

You can still change the world - while living in the world.

That depends on how you go about the Change:

Browbeating people doesn't work, trying to use force doesn't work, Trying to indoctrinate/re-educate people doesn't work, Blaming the abstract 'system' (whilst simultaneously tweeting about it on their IPhone/Android device) doesn't work.

And that's all we see.

Rarely do we see a deep introspection that maybe as a species we've evolved certain behaviors, and maybe the current 'System' is a manifestation of the mass desire to provide for and to satiated those behaviors.

And maybe, if we want a better system, we have to figure out a way to both satisfy those requirements, but in a way that is more 'acceptable' and less 'damaging' (Assuming you hold those as a priori beliefs).

But that's hard, difficult, complex and makes people dislike you by forcing them to confront their own responsibilities for the situation...

Whereas waving a placard on the street and posting on the internet is easy and wins you virtue points.




Oh - and FWIW (and this may come as a surprise to most of you) - but I'm quite the fan of Eco technologies, but only those that are both actual ecological improvements and also provide equal or better functionality than pre-existing technologies/methodologies.

[Berries]

Oh - and FWIW (and this may come as a surprise to most of you)
Yeah, sorry. Are you famous or something?


I think I missed that post.

[Katman]

But that's hard, difficult, complex and makes people dislike you by forcing them to confront their own responsibilities for the situation...

Thankfully I don't give a fuck if people dislike me.

[Woodman]

You can still change the world - while living in the world.

Correct. And things are changing.Its going to be a tough ride for a lot of us but I am optimistic.

[sidecar bob]

Thankfully I don't give a fuck if people dislike me.

It's certainly getting results.;)
What's with you going on a jolly old jaunt around India anyway? That seems to fly in the face of your "anti self indulgent, gotta spend all my time changing the world" stance that you have shoved on to me when I'm off having a good time.
I'm sure that Antisocial Personality Disorder will come to the rescue with a suitable put down to that post.

[Katman]

That seems to fly in the face of your "anti self indulgent, gotta spend all my time changing the world" stance that you have shoved on to me when I'm off having a good time.


Dry your eyes princess.

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah, sorry. Are you famous or something?


I think I missed that post.

World Famous on Kiwibiker....

[sidecar bob]

Dry your eyes princess.

So no actual justification to you hypocrisy then, predictable, but dissapointing.
I'm not havin a sook, my whole life is one big self indulgent jaunt, even though, I'd still be very unlikely to put a holiday on my credit card.
No mention of the ASPD?

[Katman]

I'm not havin a sook,

Well that's what it sounds like.

[sidecar bob]

Well that's what it sounds like.
Pathetic diversion to take the heat off you being a hypocrite.

[mashman]

Pathetic diversion to take the heat off you being a hypocrite.

He's a hypocrite IF, the person he replaced on the plane (because the set will have been taken) was lighter than him.

He's a hypocrite IF, the person he replaced was going to spend more into the economy of a country that's planting more trees than most to offset such activity.

The plane was going with someone in the seat. Maybe he did the planet a favour... and accusations of hypocrisy from those that don't even try :killingme... yeah, being called a hypocrite must sting Katman like a muthafucka when it comes form such dipshitted foundational logic :). Anyhoo... I thought you were trying to be a nice guy. Maybe you need another holiday to find your inner peace. India might be good.

[sidecar bob]

He's a hypocrite IF, the person he replaced on the plane (because the set will have been taken) was lighter than him.

He's a hypocrite IF, the person he replaced was going to spend more into the economy of a country that's planting more trees than most to offset such activity.

The plane was going with someone in the seat. Maybe he did the planet a favour... and accusations of hypocrisy from those that don't even try :killingme... yeah, being called a hypocrite must sting Katman like a muthafucka when it comes form such dipshitted foundational logic :). Anyhoo... I thought you were trying to be a nice guy. Maybe you need another holiday to find your inner peace. India might be good.

Regardless of all that waffle people that don't walk their own talk are hypocrites.
And could you do me a favour, do you think you could post without using the "killingme" emoticon just once?

[Katman]

Regardless of all that waffle people that don't walk their own talk are hypocrites.


Would you care to explain how going on holiday to India makes me a hypocrite?

[Katman]

And just to fuck some of you off even more....

.....I spent 3 weeks in India unvaccinated - and didn't die.

[sidecar bob]

And just to fuck some of you off even more....

.....I spent 3 weeks in India unvaccinated - and didn't die.

Really, Why would that fuck me off?
If someone not dying of a nasty disease fucks you off you should seek psychiatric help.

[TheDemonLord]

And just to fuck some of you off even more....

.....I spent 3 weeks in India unvaccinated - and didn't die.

Not surprising...

It wasn't South Auckland....

[Katman]

Not surprising...

It wasn't South Auckland....

How many have died so far?

[TheDemonLord]

How many have died so far?

If someone does Die - will you accept the responsibility for it?

[Katman]

If someone does Die - will you accept the responsibility for it?

Why would I?

I didn't give them measles.

[TheDemonLord]

Why would I?

I didn't give them measles.

You didn't spread Measles, but you've certainly spread anti-vax nonsense (arguably far more virulent and contagious). So I'm wondering if you'll hold yourself to the same standard you hold 'big pharma' to - and thus far, it appears not.

[mashman]

Regardless of all that waffle people that don't walk their own talk are hypocrites.
And could you do me a favour, do you think you could post without using the "killingme" emoticon just once?

They are in deed. A single hypocritical act makes one a hypocrite eh? A single hypocritical act means that all other walk and talk is irrelevant? Broad strokes form them smashing the greenhouse.
There ya go.

[Katman]

Regardless of all that waffle people that don't walk their own talk are hypocrites.


So still no explanation of how me going on holiday to India makes me a hypocrite then?

[Woodman]

Regardless of all that waffle people that don't walk their own talk are hypocrites.
And could you do me a favour, do you think you could post without using the "killingme" emoticon just once?

The only way I can not be a hypocrite is to live in what I hope the future will be, but I don't own a time machine. So if all the people who want a better and sustainable future are hypocrites then, ok we are hypocrites and that's a good thing in my book.

[sidecar bob]

A single hypocritical act makes one a hypocrite eh? .

Wow, you catch on fast, well done.

[Katman]

Wow, you catch on fast, well done.

So any explanation why a holiday to India makes me a hypocrite then?

[sidecar bob]

So any explanation why a holiday to India makes me a hypocrite then?

Yeah, you have sailed into me & others severally for being off & having a great time indulging ourselves & at the cost of not saving the world.
Apparently that was self centred & a bad thing when I was doing it.
Your memory must be fucked.

[Katman]

Yeah, you have sailed into me & others severally for being off & having a great time indulging ourselves & at the cost of not saving the world.

How about pointing exactly where I've done that?

'Cos I think you're making shit up again.

[sidecar bob]

How about pointing exactly where I've done that?

'Cos I think you're making shit up again.

Na, i just think you have a double standard & a personality disorder.

[Katman]

Na.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

[husaberg]

Yeah, I didn't think.

Not much new then...........

[mashman]

Wow, you catch on fast, well done.

Oh dear.... :killingme

[jasonu]

Crackwhore makes the herald front page.
Poor old Holmesy must be turning in his grave.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12265833

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12296904

A sad state of affairs for sure.

[MaxPenguin]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12296904

A sad state of affairs for sure.

Aaàah is your white utopia under threat?

[jasonu]

Aaàah is your white utopia under threat?

NZ hasn’t been a utopia since the early 90’s

[austingtir]

Aaàah is your white utopia under threat?

Atleast it's better than Muhammad like is the top baby name in the UK.


Still a ridiculous state of affairs in a 70% white country.

Indians must really like the name Singh is all I can really work out. Still kinda baffled at how its possible though given the statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand#Ethnicity

Indians hardly even rate as a percentage of the overall demographic (I would guess less than half of the asian demographic of 8.1% at most). So either they are breeding like fuckin rabbits which is highly likely or every single indian baby they pop out is called singh.

[husaberg]

Atleast it's better than Muhammad like is the top baby name in the UK.


Still a ridiculous state of affairs in a 70% white country.

Indians must really like the name Singh is all I can really work out. Still kinda baffled at how its possible though given the statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand#Ethnicity

Indians hardly even rate as a percentage of the overall demographic (I would guess less than half of the asian demographic of 8.1% at most). So either they are breeding like fuckin rabbits which is highly likely or every single indian baby they pop out is called singh.

Someone might say its a pretty hypocritical post for a dude who has stated they have an asian immigrant wife to say.
ESpecially after you posted this as well


We are all immigrants unless you are maori and even they immigrated here most likely at some stage..

[austingtir]

Someone might say its a pretty hypocritical post for a dude who has stated they have an asian immigrant wife to say.

How do you know I didnt name my one of my kids Singh?


BTW: my wife laughed when I told her the top NZ baby surname was Singh.


BTW2: you should know by now the last thing I worry about is being labelled hypocritical. Coming from you its like a medal of honor.


BTW3: Atleast im having kids.

[MaxPenguin]

Atleast it's better than Muhammad like is the top baby name in the UK.


Still a ridiculous state of affairs in a 70% white country.

Indians must really like the name Singh is all I can really work out. Still kinda baffled at how its possible though given the statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand#Ethnicity

Indians hardly even rate as a percentage of the overall demographic (I would guess less than half of the asian demographic of 8.1% at most). So either they are breeding like fuckin rabbits which is highly likely or every single indian baby they pop out is called singh.

If the article said the top name was Smith, it wouldn't,t have even got mentioned on kb even though there were immigrants called Smith.
To say that the name Singh being popular is a sad state of affairs is borderline white supremacy.

[austingtir]

If the article said the top name was Smith, it wouldn't,t have even got mentioned on kb even though there were immigrants called Smith.
To say that the name Singh being popular is a sad state of affairs is borderline white supremacy.

It was on the news tonight and everyone to a man that was interviewed was shocked to hear the that figure stated. Every single person. Most of them laughed it off but they were all still very surprised.

People these days are brainwashed to the point its impossible to even discuss a topic like this without some tard going:
https://media.tenor.com/images/05c1fd70c466bd33c6f55de0f29e9fa6/tenor.gif

The one thing the news did state that made sense is that indians do tend to use the name Singh (forget if they said for religious reasons or something but its something along those lines).

The more I think about it the more it makes sense but when you first see it stated it sounds very strange until you realize nearly every single sikh indian in the country probably has the last name Singh.


Do you not think its stupid that in a country like England the most popular baby first name is Muhammed? Because thats the direction this country is heading in aswell.


And its only due to people in the west being brainwashed into being materialistic and nationalism being a dirty word not getting married and having kids in large enough numbers. Which is another reason we are importing so many people when we really should not be.

Thats what I think is a ridiculous state of affairs.

[MaxPenguin]

It was on the news tonight and everyone to a man that was interviewed was shocked to hear the that figure stated. Every single person. Most of them laughed it off but they were all still very surprised.

People these days are brainwashed to the point its impossible to even discuss a topic like this without some tard going:
https://media.tenor.com/images/05c1fd70c466bd33c6f55de0f29e9fa6/tenor.gif

The one thing the news did state that made sense is that indians do tend to use the name Singh (forget if they said for religious reasons or something but its something along those lines).

The more I think about it the more it makes sense but when you first see it stated it sounds very strange until you realize nearly every single sikh indian in the country probably has the last name Singh.


Do you not think its stupid that in a country like England the most popular baby first name is Muhammed? Because thats the direction this country is heading in aswell.


And its only due to people in the west being brainwashed into being materialistic and nationalism being a dirty word not getting married and having kids in large enough numbers. Which is another reason we are importing so many people when we really should not be.

Thats what I think is a ridiculous state of affairs.

So we should have white and non white countries should we?

[austingtir]

So we should have white and non white countries should we?

Now you are just being silly. But thats exactly what the likes of the ANC in southafrica would probably like to see.

But if we are going to start down that road you should be asking the Japanese and Saudi's first.

[MaxPenguin]

Now you are just being silly. But thats exactly what the likes of the ANC in southafrica would probably like to see.

But if we are going to start down that road you should be asking the Japanese and Saudi's first.

Exactly like they would probably like to see. Haha haha. Make your mind up.

[austingtir]

Exactly like they would probably like to see. Haha haha. Make your mind up.

Make mind up? Those countries have already done what you are suggesting or are trying to implement it in ANC case.

[MaxPenguin]

Make mind up? Those countries have already done what you are suggesting or are trying to implement it in ANC case.

I was winding you up about saying something is probably exactly. Thought it was obvious.

[jasonu]

If the article said the top name was Smith, it wouldn't,t have even got mentioned on kb even though there were immigrants called Smith.
To say that the name Singh being popular is a sad state of affairs is borderline white supremacy.

Typically immigrants called Smith integrate with the existing communities. They don't show en mass, set up their own communities then demand the locals tone down the Christmases and Easters etc because they find them offensive.

[Laava]

Typically immigrants called Smith integrate with the existing communities. They don't show en mass, set up their own communities then demand the locals tone down the Christmases and Easters etc because they find them offensive.
You couldn't be more wrong. Ask the australian aboriginals or the indian population of america how it worked out for them.

[jasonu]

You couldn't be more wrong. Ask the australian aboriginals or the indian population of america how it worked out for them.

That 200+year boat has sailed.

[MaxPenguin]

Typically immigrants called Smith integrate with the existing communities. They don't show en mass, set up their own communities then demand the locals tone down the Christmases and Easters etc because they find them offensive.

So how many immigrants, and I am talking Asian, Do you try and integrate with? A lot of kiwis will go and meet the new neighbours if they are white, but not so much if they are from Asian extraction. And you say they don't integrate.

[austingtir]

So how many immigrants, and I am talking Asian, Do you try and integrate with? A lot of kiwis will go and meet the new neighbours if they are white, but not so much if they are from Asian extraction. And you say they don't integrate.

How many do you interact with?

Generally in my experience if they are second generation born in NZ asian they pretty much always integrate on a much higher level near 100% in some cases than the ones first off the boat. Also many asians weather it be chinese indian or whatever do stick to their own social groups just same as any other ethnicity does. My own wife has a very large chinese family here in Rotorua so I can observe this first hand and I would go as far as to say they would be on the upper end of the assimilation scale being from Hong Kong originally gives them a massive advantage over other asians in being able to assimilate easily as they have been fully exposed to aspects of the west in HK.

Thats why multiculturalism is a joke. It just means a bunch of different cultures living near each other not actually fully interacting and assimilating with each other. You only have to drive through the likes of mangere to see this.

This is why anyone coming in through the border should be required to have a certain level of understanding and agreement with the host dominant culture.


Whats the point in ending up with areas like in minisota in the USA that have practically become muslim no go zones? Or parts of south London and Lutton in the UK where entire towns are muslim and are now demanding sharia courts and laws and all kinds of other BS.

[oldrider]

So how many immigrants, and I am talking Asian, Do you try and integrate with? A lot of kiwis will go and meet the new neighbours if they are white, but not so much if they are from Asian extraction. And you say they don't integrate.

To a degree I agree with you - New Zealanders expect more than they actually give in the form of integration!

Fortunately Oamaru/Waitaki has a fairly large new* cosmopolitan population and they all integrate pretty well considering - hopefully that will continue.

*By new I mean from my first visit in 1960 - there were very few races other than European obvious in the community - today Pacific people of all Nations abound!

Tourism is strong in the area too and the crowds enjoying the harbour facilities etc increase the range of international interaction even further - it's good stuff. (IMHO) :niceone:

[jasonu]

So how many immigrants, and I am talking Asian, Do you try and integrate with? .

When I lived in NZ the only Asians I knew were either from school or work. Other than that none as most of them took over east auckland and I didn't live there.
If I moved to say China I would not expect anyone to change their ways just for me, same as when I moved here.

[austingtir]

Should winston stand down while the SFO investigate his undoubtedly dodgy dealings?


https://i.imgur.com/WJZbAY2.jpg

[austingtir]

When virtue signalling goes wrong:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119473756/once-were-warriors-author-alan-duff-says-his-close-mate-bob-jones-is-no-racist


It seems the young wahine has bitten off more than she can chew with old Bob Jones....

[jasonu]

When virtue signalling goes wrong:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119473756/once-were-warriors-author-alan-duff-says-his-close-mate-bob-jones-is-no-racist


It seems the young wahine has bitten off more than she can chew with old Bob Jones....

Hopefully old Bob doesn't have any Ron Brierly type skeletons in his closet.
Now that is one for the plus fours!!!

[Kickaha]

When virtue signalling goes wrong:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119473756/once-were-warriors-author-alan-duff-says-his-close-mate-bob-jones-is-no-racist


It seems the young wahine has bitten off more than she can chew with old Bob Jones....

Seems she hasn't as he has withdrawn the case

[Grumph]

Seems she hasn't as he has withdrawn the case

Silly old B went on a trolling execise, caught something he wasn't expecting - and it bit him.

[austingtir]

Seems she hasn't as he has withdrawn the case

She has also withdrawn from her attacks on Jones if you notice.

Again Bob has made his point. And only stopped because he didnt see the need to continue. They have clearly mediated between the lawyers or directly.

[pritch]

Silly old B went on a trolling execise, caught something he wasn't expecting - and it bit him.

That was an expensive way for jones to make a fool of himself. He brought the case, then withdrew it, in normal circumstances apparently that means he picks up the entire tab. Just as well he's not short of a quid.

[jasonu]

That was an expensive way for jones to make a fool of himself. He brought the case, then withdrew it, in normal circumstances apparently that means he picks up the entire tab. Just as well he's not short of a quid.

Better than sitting on the couch being a keyboard expert like you.

[Bonez]

Better than sitting on the couch being a keyboard expert like you.
I believe the term is ex spirt.:yes:

[austingtir]

https://i.imgur.com/q0vPm2T.jpg



https://i.imgur.com/dp91ire.jpg

[husaberg]

345685..............
345686

345690345687345689

345688

[husaberg]

Isnt it odd how someone who goes on about what a shithole NZ is is so quiet about the protests so bad in his home country that they have to call in the Military.:msn-wink:

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/revealed-auckland-street-set-to-receive-68-traffic-cameras/UDIMGS6UUT4DYYQ57PN6KJBU7M/

What a fucking joke.

[FJRider]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/revealed-auckland-street-set-to-receive-68-traffic-cameras/UDIMGS6UUT4DYYQ57PN6KJBU7M/

What a fucking joke.

The camera costs will be reimbursed through fines in a year or so. And then they'll be a money maker ... until they change the rules ... again.

[F5 Dave]

Dude. You're back.

[jasonu]

What a total joke.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/isis-terrorist-bride-suhayra-aden-and-her-children-to-return-to-nz/MCHFHKTT4KKGLN64RTO3O3VCBU/

[husaberg]

What a total joke.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/isis-terrorist-bride-suhayra-aden-and-her-children-to-return-to-nz/MCHFHKTT4KKGLN64RTO3O3VCBU/

That's pretty rich from a dude whose home country allows you to marry your 12 year old cousin.

Minimum age of 12 years old for females and 14 years old for males Massachusetts
Minimum age of 14: Alaska, and Vermont.

USA where you are allowed to mary first cousins
Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts New Jersey, New Mexico, New York , Rhode Island, South Carolina, , Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, North Carolina.
Not to mention how corrupt your cuntry is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index


Maybe you should sort out your own shit before slagging off other clearly far more advanced countries.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpIkl2QnJeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKEqVWmzX0Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klUweWE-u6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08T-YsXRcCo

[HenryDorsetCase]

What a total joke.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/isis-terrorist-bride-suhayra-aden-and-her-children-to-return-to-nz/MCHFHKTT4KKGLN64RTO3O3VCBU/

New Zealand literally had no choice about that. Ardern has handled it with what good grace could be mustered under the circumstances. and since mrkns are all about the whataboutism - at least we arent fucking straya and that cunt scomo isnt our PM. because theres a corrupt, hideous bunch of cunts. They wanna be mrka - all the shitty bits of it.

Still at least there's a functional adult in the White House now, huh? That must be great. What a pity your god emperor hasnt died of ass-cancer yet.

[Viking01]

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20210727-1-trillion-plan-how-does-the-us-rank-globally-on-infrastructure

[F5 Dave]

The sad thing is these wimen are groomed in the same way paedos groom vulnerable kids. Come over here and we will look after you in the manner of holy men. Religion and desire for a partner. No more guilty than suckeres looking for romance that lose thousands in the hope someone will love them.

Of course they get there and are sex slaves and work slaves and get pregnant. Some finally escape. And Scomo makes them enemies of the state. He knows full well they aren't ideological terrorists . But political showmanship.

Just like they are exporting their fuckhead gang members over here . They became criminal in Australia. Its your fucking social problem.

And to make it worse forceful sending them over in a pandemic means they take MIQ spots that Kiwis could have used.

Stop being a Cunt Scomo.

Of course he can't help it. He was born a cunt.

[FJRider]

The sad thing is these wimen are groomed in the same way paedos groom vulnerable kids. Come over here and we will look after you in the manner of holy men. Religion and desire for a partner. No more guilty than suckeres looking for romance that lose thousands in the hope someone will love them.

Maybe those wimen (actually spelt women) aren't just looking for "Love" ... they just want to get out of the dead end world they're currently living in ... (probably Dorkland).

A greater form of Hell I could not imagine ... :doh:


Of course they get there and are sex slaves and work slaves and get pregnant. Some finally escape. And Scomo makes them enemies of the state. He knows full well they aren't ideological terrorists . But political showmanship.

And ... when they get "There" ... and find ... life is not as described "In the Brochures" ... options are few.


Just like they are exporting their fuckhead gang members over here . They became criminal in Australia. Its your fucking social problem.

You seem to have forgotten ... those "fuckhead gang members" are Kiwi's that were living/working [sic] in Aus' ... :msn-wink:


And to make it worse forceful sending them over in a pandemic means they take MIQ spots that Kiwis could have used.

See above ... :msn-wink:


Stop being a Cunt Scomo.

Cunt's will be cunts ... that's what they do. But is sending Kiwi troublemakers "HOME" ... being a cunt ... ?? :msn-wink:


Of course he can't help it. He was born a cunt.

If you tried hard enough (with not much more effort) ... you might be perceived in the same manner ... :msn-wink:

But have a nice day anyway .... :niceone:

[F5 Dave]

But a lit of these guys left nz as children with parents making a new life. They're about as Kiwi as I'm Australian.

[FJRider]

But a lit of these guys left nz as children with parents making a new life. They're about as Kiwi as I'm Australian.

Born in NZ ... Kiwi's. Such is reality ... unless they took out Aussie (or other) citizenship.

Were you born in NZ or Aus ... ?? Have a nice day sport ... :cool:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Born in NZ ... Kiwi's. Such is reality ... unless they took out Aussie (or other) citizenship.

Were you born in NZ or Aus ... ?? Have a nice day sport ... :cool:

Suhaya Aden had dual citizenship in NZ (birthright) and Aus. The australian gubblemunt saw fit to revoke her aussie citizenship after her adventures in Syria being a Jihadi bride. Various UN conventions say you cannot leave someone stateless - remember she is at this point sitting in a Turkish internment cvamp - so NZ did the right thing and agreed to take her.

I would bet $500 that the only danger here is white "supremacists" seeking to do her and her children harm, gutless pieces of shit that they are: example: mosque shooter asshole (oh wait, a fucking strayan what a surprise) or the one and only Philip Arps. I mean sure, if those losers represent the master race, the rest of us have nothing to worry about.

[F5 Dave]

Born in NZ ... Kiwi's. Such is reality ... unless they took out Aussie (or other) citizenship.

Were you born in NZ or Aus ... ?? Have a nice day sport ... :cool:
Escaping bigotry in a row boat 1/2 way in between. I cant remember which way we were headed. :bleh:

[FJRider]

Escaping bigotry in a row boat 1/2 way in between. I cant remember which way we were headed. :bleh:

I was born in Southland ... (Tuatapere to be exact) but left there age one. I lived in various parts of southland through my "Education process years" ... but was not instructed on race (as an issue) by my Parents. I was in contact with others at school that had a different skin colour to mine. I had no inclination to see or treat them any differently ... merely based on their colour or race. One or two were tossers ... and WERE treated accordingly.

In my opinion .. you don't escape bigotry ... you deal with it.

[F5 Dave]

It was a joke with reference to transfering countries . I have a couple of mate who have made the move to Auss. Been paying tax there for decade or decades. They are Australian now. In all but citizens rights.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It was a joke with reference to transfering countries . I have a couple of mate who have made the move to Auss. Been paying tax there for decade or decades. They are Australian now. In all but citizens rights.

until they get arbitrarily deemed to not be "Fit and proper" and their visas revoked and put on a plane, or until they need support from the state/State they have been paying taxes to for years and years.

Half my friends and family are there too but I say to them all: become citizens of Straya.

Like we in NZ think "Oh well, cuzzies across the ditch, ANZAC spirit, alla that." In my experience Strayans could not give less of a fuck about NZ, never think about it except to make snide comments and generally are very racist and incredibly xenophobic.

And I quite like Straya. Used to go there on holiday even.

[F5 Dave]

Yes one got seriously ill and was contemplating having to move his Australian family here just for healthcare.

[pritch]

Born in NZ ... Kiwi's. Such is reality ... unless they took out Aussie (or other) citizenship.


That's actually not how it works. Scotty from marketing doesn't give a shit about any of that. He will revoke, or withhold, citizenship on a whim. He and his cabinet are primarlly concerned with feathering each others nests - and looking good to their more biggoted compatriots.

Some like to whinge about our politicians, but we don't know how lucky we are.

[FJRider]

That's actually not how it works. Scotty from marketing doesn't give a shit about any of that. He will revoke, or withhold, citizenship on a whim. He and his cabinet are primarlly concerned with feathering each others nests - and looking good to their more biggoted compatriots.

Some like to whinge about our politicians, but we don't know how lucky we are.

Basically ... if you're not a resident in your country of birth ... all bets are off.

The policy you've mentioned above HAS occurred in NZ too ... in the past. If you were to join an organization like ISIS ... and later decided things weren't as described in the brochures ... and want to come "Home" ... Good luck with that.

[husaberg]

That's actually not how it works. Scotty from marketing doesn't give a shit about any of that. He will revoke, or withhold, citizenship on a whim. He and his cabinet are primarlly concerned with feathering each others nests - and looking good to their more biggoted compatriots.

Some like to whinge about our politicians, but we don't know how lucky we are.

Scott thinks he is Nero, but at least Nero didn't fly to Hawaii while Rome burnt.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtQd-90FsA8

[F5 Dave]

Do you fucking seriously think these chick's thought they were joining isis? Do you understand a scam? You'd love to think they came to a Hey baby, come and join our jihady party. - Yeah ok, sure I like the idea of killing white Christians. I'll grab my coat and be right there.

Then you can be all like, Well you got what you deserved bitch. God is my shepherd. Deliver us from evil.

Maybe you can laugh at the thought of her soul burning in hell. Forever. Burn her. She's a witch.

Let that Christian hate broil.

[pritch]

Basically ... if you're not a resident in your country of birth ... all bets are off.

The policy you've mentioned above HAS occurred in NZ too ... in the past. If you were to join an organization like ISIS ... and later decided things weren't as described in the brochures ... and want to come "Home" ... Good luck with that.

I don't know if Mark Taylor's citizenship has been revoked nor do I much care. He made his bed...

The government says their concern in the current case is the kids. Hopefully the kids won't become radicalised but time will tell.

Sort of reminds me of the journalist talking to ISIS prisoners after the fall of Raqqa. According to the prisoners they had all been cooks and cleaners. The journalist said the food must have been great with so many cooks. Nobody laughed.

[jasonu]

It was a joke with reference to transfering countries . I have a couple of mate who have made the move to Auss. Been paying tax there for decade or decades. They are Australian now. In all but citizens rights.

Then they should have properly committed to their new home and became Australian citizens.

[F5 Dave]

Thank you Captain Hindsight :msn-wink:

Life goes by and NZ to Aus is a small enough step that it was forgotten I believe.

[Grumph]

Then they should have properly committed to their new home and became Australian citizens.


Stay up with the play mate. Even Quade bloody Cooper - a wallaby who's played many times for Australia and looks like doing it again - can't get accepted for aussie citizenship.
They want our labor, our taxes when we're there and our best sportspeople - but give us citizenship ? Fuck off.

I found it interesting to realise recently why NZ was never accepted as a state of Oz. Because we (the NZ govt of the time) had signed a treaty with the indigenous people - the Maori in case you've forgotten Jason - but Oz hadn't and wouldn't. The legal problems that would have thrown up for the crown in OZ stopped us becoming a state.
The Maori as a consequence have never been hunted for a bounty on their heads. The Aboriginals however...
Aussies - don't you love them....

[R650R]

The Maori as a consequence have never been hunted for a bounty on their heads. The Aboriginals however...
Aussies - don't you love them....

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/people/te-kooti-arikirangi-te-turuki

“ The government became all the more grimly determined to capture or kill him. A massive bounty of £5,000 – equivalent to $580,000 in 2015 – was placed on his head.”

[Grumph]

I stand by what i said. As a race the Maori have not been hunted for a bounty.
I'd point out that individual pakeha have also had a price put on them for capture or a confirmed kill.

[pritch]

Te Kooti was a mystic rather than a warrior. They only went after him because having twice attacked Titokowaru, and had their arses kicked both times, they correctly surmised a change of scenery would be beneficial for their health.

[jasonu]

but give us citizenship ? Fuck off.
..

That was changed sometime in the last few (10 years or so ago???) years. Before that Aussie citizenship was a matter of applying and jumping through the hoops. Many if not all the people like Daves mates have been there for many years and had ample time and opportunities to become citizens of the country they chose as home but didn't.
Tough titties!

[jasonu]

A brand new road. What a fucking joke.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/motorists-warned-as-newly-tarred-sh1-section-north-of-auckland-peels-off/3QFV6Q2BSNFXXLI3N5VJZJ662A/

[F5 Dave]

Heya Jason, how are you?

Buy a Trials bike. Fuking fun, even for old jokers like you. (And for young cunts like me)

[jasonu]

Heya Jason, how are you?

Buy a Trials bike. Fuking fun, even for old jokers like you. (And for young cunts like me)

All good here mate.
No trials bike but I did buy a 1979 CanAm250 Qualifier. Rotax rotary valve motor.

[F5 Dave]

Oh cool, I remember reading about them in an old Cycle magazine I'd bought 2nd hand of the era.

[1/32 man]

Living in a back water shit hole is not so bad compared to some other back water shit holes.

Being far away from most places has its pluses and minuses....

[F5 Dave]

I was pretty backwater today picking my way through the Bush and a few streams on the Trials bike. So few people get into these areas. What a Paradise.

[george formby]

I was pretty backwater today picking my way through the Bush and a few streams on the Trials bike. So few people get into these areas. What a Paradise.

Must admit, I love picking my way through the bush, too.

[1/32 man]

I can't even find a bush....er, the bush.



I did have a Honda TL125 and a Yamaha TY175 back in the dark old days and sometimes think it would be good to fuck around on one again...Home area is 1200sq mtrs so probably annoy the neighbours once I set up my "section"

[george formby]

I can't even find a bush....er, the bush.



I did have a Honda TL125 and a Yamaha TY175 back in the dark old days and sometimes think it would be good to fuck around on one again...Home area is 1200sq mtrs so probably annoy the neighbours once I set up my "section"

Just the thing.. They have a lovely "crackle"

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/yamaha/listing/3443727274

In all cerealness, I ride my 4t GG trialy around the garden and you can barely hear it most of the time. Donuts are quite noisy.

[F5 Dave]

That one is terrible value. This https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/gas-gas/listing/3891438352 would run rings around it for 1/2 the price. Looks a bit tatty but it might not be that bad from description.

[1/32 man]

That one is terrible value. This https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/gas-gas/listing/3891438352 would run rings around it for 1/2 the price. Looks a bit tatty but it might not be that bad from description.



I like TYs and that one looks to be possibly registerable for the road which could be handy.

If I was a rich man diddle diddle etc

[Ocean1]

That one is terrible value. This https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/gas-gas/listing/3891438352 would run rings around it for 1/2 the price. Looks a bit tatty but it might not be that bad from description.

No seat. My knees would last about 10 min.

[F5 Dave]

At the meets there's a bunch in 60s and 70s. And they all ride better than me:o

[Ocean1]

At the meets there's a bunch in 60s and 70s. And they all ride better than me:o

Ixion?......

[F5 Dave]

Yup. Next meet 8th Jan

https://ixionmototrials.com/

[Ocean1]

Yup. Next meet 8th Jan

https://ixionmototrials.com/

Maybe I'll bring the Buell over to the next twin shock thing...

[R650R]

Surpused this got printed in fluff news, mind you when the public “journalism” slush fund dries up I guess it’s tempting to print the truth

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132022958/damien-grant-we-arent-in-a-cost-of-living-crisis-were-just-poor

Well worth a read some interesting points made

[pete376403]

Surpused this got printed in fluff news, mind you when the public “journalism” slush fund dries up I guess it’s tempting to print the truth

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132022958/damien-grant-we-arent-in-a-cost-of-living-crisis-were-just-poor

Well worth a read some interesting points made
Written by a true liberal who would like things to return to the Victorian era of wealthy minority capitalist "upper class" and stunningly poor "lower class", many surplus to requirements thus allowing wages to be kept at a subsistence level.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Written by a true liberal who would like things to return to the Victorian era of wealthy minority capitalist "upper class" and stunningly poor "lower class", many surplus to requirements thus allowing wages to be kept at a subsistence level.

Also reintroduce other Victorian novelties such as: no environmental protection at all. Only the "deserving" poor get help. Noblesse oblige and droit de seigneur*. As a lifelong socialist, I am not too upset by this because it will inevitably lead to the rising up of the working classes, and the rich being eaten.

[george formby]

Also reintroduce other Victorian novelties such as: no environmental protection at all. Only the "deserving" poor get help. Noblesse oblige and droit de seigneur*. As a lifelong socialist, I am not too upset by this because it will inevitably lead to the rising up of the working classes, and the rich being eaten.

Just the inspiration my Sunday morning needed, cheers.


https://youtu.be/Wh3t49NsWBA

[F5 Dave]

Also reintroduce other Victorian novelties such as: no environmental protection at all. Only the "deserving" poor get help. Noblesse oblige and droit de seigneur*. As a lifelong socialist, I am not too upset by this because it will inevitably lead to the rising up of the working classes, and the rich being eaten.

Um. Are you going to smear yourself with BBQ sauce first?

[TheDemonLord]

Written by a true liberal who would like things to return to the Victorian era of wealthy minority capitalist "upper class" and stunningly poor "lower class", many surplus to requirements thus allowing wages to be kept at a subsistence level.

Something something the Left wing something Immigration something open borders something.

[TheDemonLord]

Also reintroduce other Victorian novelties such as: no environmental protection at all. Only the "deserving" poor get help. Noblesse oblige and droit de seigneur*. As a lifelong socialist, I am not too upset by this because it will inevitably lead to the rising up of the working classes, and the rich being eaten.

Cause in every attempt of Socialism, the Working classes did *so* well.. Right? Right?


Interestingly enough - yes, only the Deserving poor should get help.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Written by a true liberal who would like things to return to the Victorian era of wealthy minority capitalist "upper class" and stunningly poor "lower class", many surplus to requirements thus allowing wages to be kept at a subsistence level.

You should understand who controls the wealth in communist countries like China and Russia, the politicians and their friends, the working class are far worse off in these socialist, communist countries, even so called white socialist Scandinavian countries have their economies based upon capitalism.

These countries like the Netherlands, Iceland, Switzerland like to boast about their socialist policies but in reality Iceland/Greenland built there economies on oil and used the profits to invest in the US share market, you'll be surprised how much of a stake these so called socialist countries have in the likes of Apple, and as for Switzerland socialism, that whole country is built on the international banking system with its international clients that don't pay tax..yet the happy citizens pay some of the highest tax in the world.

[R650R]

Also reintroduce other Victorian novelties such as: no environmental protection at all. Only the "deserving" poor get help. Noblesse oblige and droit de seigneur*. As a lifelong socialist, I am not too upset by this because it will inevitably lead to the rising up of the working classes, and the rich being eaten.

Given the 99%-1% distribution that meal may be rather very brief. Likely to be followed by the poor eating the poor.

[R650R]

Written by a true liberal who would like things to return to the Victorian era of wealthy minority capitalist "upper class" and stunningly poor "lower class", many surplus to requirements thus allowing wages to be kept at a subsistence level.

That sounds very similar to your average commie/socialist dictatorship.

[pete376403]

That sounds very similar to your average commie/socialist dictatorship.

Correct, there wasn't (and isn't) a lot of difference. Communiism was *supposed* to make the difference but human nature quickly reverted to type.

[pete376403]

Something something the Left wing something Immigration something open borders something.

You shouldn't knock immigration - after all it's how you got here

[TheDemonLord]

You shouldn't knock immigration - after all it's how you got here

Sure - but that presumes all migrants are the same.

The point was about cheap labour - basic supply and demand curves - if there's an excess of supply (people) then the price stays low. Restrict the supply (for example by having a well-enforced border and having a set of criteria to emigrate) and the price for labour goes up.

Interestingly enough - I was reading about the end of feudalism the other day and one of the major factors was that with the Black Death in europe, that drastically reduced the amount of labour available - meaning the peasants had a significantly stronger position in negotiating their services with the Nobles.

Letting a few highly skilled and specialized migrants in is not the same as letting large numbers of relatively unskilled labour in.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Sure - but that presumes all migrants are the same.

The point was about cheap labour - basic supply and demand curves - if there's an excess of supply (people) then the price stays low. Restrict the supply (for example by having a well-enforced border and having a set of criteria to emigrate) and the price for labour goes up.

Interestingly enough - I was reading about the end of feudalism the other day and one of the major factors was that with the Black Death in europe, that drastically reduced the amount of labour available - meaning the peasants had a significantly stronger position in negotiating their services with the Nobles.

Letting a few highly skilled and specialized migrants in is not the same as letting large numbers of relatively unskilled labour in.

Problem with this is the cost of labour goes up so does inflation and the price spiral upwards continues making everyone poorer, or the value of your currency worth less, cheap imported labour drive's down the cost, hence we become richer because you have far more choices, in other words the free market also known as Capitalism

[TheDemonLord]

Problem with this is the cost of labour goes up so does inflation and the price spiral upwards continues making everyone poorer, or the value of your currency worth less, cheap imported labour drive's down the cost, hence we become richer because you have far more choices, in other words the free market also known as Capitalism

Disagree.

Inflation has a singular cause - which is the expansion of the Money supply. Not the labour supply.

As Labour becomes scarce, it becomes a more valuable resource - therefore do-nothing jobs that don't produce anything of value become less and less viable - which ultimately means that more things of value are produced, causing the Economy to grow (but not inflate) - which means we actually get richer, real wealth - not artificial wealth.

Case in point: Post WW2 economic boom.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

^^ Immigration was at record levels during the Key and Clark era's, inflation went down so this proves my point, I do agree with the counterfeiting of money by central bank's, however this did not happen after WW2 but later when Nixon was going to end the gold standard because the US was going broke from the Vietnam war and the expensive 60s.

This gave the US the all go to start printing the US dollar which even affected me as a baby, having to move from Ponsonby to the West side for affordable housing
My parents couldn't afford a $2,000 crappy Ponsonby villa so had to move.

The 70s was the true era money printing begun or counterfeiting money by central banks started to hit Kiwis, this meant mum had too work as well

Fuck Nixon.

Side note, Trump has said he will let the US default on its debts instead of printing more money, I believe he's the leading Republican candidate

[JimO]

You shouldn't knock immigration - after all it's how you got here
thats how everyone got here

[pete376403]

thats how everyone got here Maybe initially but I was concieved and born here. Have to go back to grandparents to have immigrants in the bloodline

[F5 Dave]

^^ Immigration was at record levels during the Key and Clark era's, inflation went down so this proves my point, I do agree with the counterfeiting of money by central bank's, however this did not happen after WW2 but later when Nixon was going to end the gold standard because the US was going broke from the Vietnam war and the expensive 60s.

This gave the US the all go to start printing the US dollar which even affected me as a baby, having to move from Ponsonby to the West side for affordable housing
My parents couldn't afford a $2,000 crappy Ponsonby villa so had to move.

The 70s was the true era money printing begun or counterfeiting money by central banks started to hit Kiwis, this meant mum had too work as well

Fuck Nixon.

Side note, Trump has said he will let the US default on its debts instead of printing more money, I believe he's the leading Republican candidate
Inflation went down everywhere,.

The problem with huge immigration is who pays for the infrastructure to support them?

Someone else's problem said too many governments. Look at our rockstar economy. :facepalm:


You cant have infinite growth. There needs to be a calculation of net benefit which in economics is Through life cost.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Inflation went down everywhere,.

The problem with huge immigration is who pays for the infrastructure to support them?

Someone else's problem said too many governments. Look at our rockstar economy. :facepalm:


You cant have infinite growth. There needs to be a calculation of net benefit which in economics is Through life cost.

I've never really understood this argument so I'm up for understanding an opposite opinion

During the Key and Clark era we had solid growth or infinite growth as you say

True

Yes us rich were getting richer, but were the poor worse of than today's socialist policies?

I've taken a hit to my net worth but I still don't need to work for a living, and from what I can understand it's really tough for not just the lower working class or poor but increasingly for the middle class

Crime is rampant, House prices are down yet nobody can afford to buy one, I unfortunately agree with the title of this thread.

However, I don't necessarily blame the current government, I solely blame sheep who gave them 50% of the power only for their leader to fk off when it got too hard.

A simple answer to your question, To build the infrastructure, you need the workers or immigrants, to pay for the infrastructure, you need the income or tax revenue, immigrants pay their way as has always been the case around the world

You need an increase in productivity or labor which is immigration

You need to struggle before you achieve prosperity as a country, not the other way around or you end up with a dead economy

Yes you can stop growth, but treasury is forcasting a deficit out to 2026? Which means we spend more than we earn

So you get your wish, not infinite growth but no growth, which makes the poor poorer, I'm fine because my investments are off shore.

Happy to hear a different opinion, preferably ones own and not a link.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

I'll simplify my above post to immigration

In this theoretical scenario

If it's just Al Bundy, Husenberg, Berries and F5Dave living in NZ no immigration or growth,

We trade bread, meat , vegetables in exchange for labour and transport

Sounds great, socialist Eutopia, nobody is rich and nobody is poor

Job done!

until you realise Australia's

dollar is now worth 20 x more than ours because of our non existent economy

That's alright, we can live independently of Capitalism, fuck OZ,Fuck USA

But wait

Berries needs his diabetic medicine, it's 50 times more expensive than 3 year's ago because of our weak currency and economy.

Don't believe this could happen? It happens all the time with socialist countries

Venezuela is one that spring to mind

And before you bring up the Scandinavian countries, these countries built there wealth on capitalism, exporting oil then investing in the US share market which affords them to live in so called socialist countries

[Kickaha]

Berries needs his diabetic medicine, it's 50 times more expensive than 3 year's ago because of our weak currency and economy.

Don't believe this could happen? It happens all the time with socialist countries



Is the USA socialist ? is that why American citizens drive across the border to Canada to buy cheap insulin or order it online from there?

Is that why the price of Insulin in America went up 97% in four years ? Was that because the USA is Socialist ? or is it just the weak USD and weak US economy

[pete376403]

Berries needs his diabetic medicine, it's 50 times more expensive than 3 year's ago because of our weak currency and economy.

Or maybe it's rampant capitalists like martin shkreli ("pharma bro")who obtained the manufacturing license for the antiparasitic drug Daraprim, a drug that was so cheap it wasn't worth other companies competing, and raised its price by 5,455% (from US$13.50 to $750 per pill).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Is the USA socialist ? is that why American citizens drive across the border to Canada to buy cheap insulin or order it online from there?

Is that why the price of Insulin in America went up 97% in four years ? Was that because the USA is Socialist ? or is it just the weak USD and weak US economy There are many items that the US import from other countries because of price, the US is the wealthiest country in the world for 2 reasons, capitalism and the US dollar being the reserve country of oil ..I mean the world.

[onearmedbandit]

By what metric are you ranking America as the wealthiest country in the world?

[F5 Dave]

I used to identify as capitalist but now I'm centrist, if that's a thing. Clearly Socialism is a failed social experiment. That's obvious.

But rampant Capitalism has almost as many problems. We need to try stitch together a compromise for a society that is viable in the long term.

5 million and counting, we went from 4 to 5 in record time.

What will the country be like when it's 10 million? And those immigrants have just retired?


Ooh! I know! Let's get some more people in. The Waikato river will be like the Ganges.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

By what metric are you ranking America as the wealthiest country in the world?

Economy is my metric, you can't compare China, they still have 300 million people in rural China living well below the poverty line, happy none the less

[mashman]

Economy is my metric, you can't compare China.........

:corn: ...........

[R650R]

I used to identify as capitalist but now I'm centrist, if that's a thing. Clearly Socialism is a failed social experiment. That's obvious.

But rampant Capitalism has almost as many problems. We need to try stitch together a compromise for a society that is viable in the long term.

5 million and counting, we went from 4 to 5 in record time.

What will the country be like when it's 10 million? And those immigrants have just retired?


Ooh! I know! Let's get some more people in. The Waikato river will be like the Ganges.

It used to be China that would run the world next... but international demographics are fast changing. China’s one child policy was used for too long, in the coming decades not enough young people is going to cause many problems and their influence will diminish.
India will actually surpass China and become the dominant country in that region.
But slowly in background Nigeria of all places is set to be an economic powerhouse in about 50 years time. They are the only large population whose birth rate is leading towards large population increase.
Hopefully they will be exporting something better than telemarketing scams by then.
As for NZ we will prob be rainbow central, drinking Bud lite instead of speights. Massive immigration by Asians/Indians and Muslims after WW4 will rewrite the political establishment. National, Labour, Greens, Māori party will all be irrelevant as the likes of TOP.

[TheDemonLord]

I used to identify as capitalist but now I'm centrist, if that's a thing. Clearly Socialism is a failed social experiment. That's obvious.

But rampant Capitalism has almost as many problems. We need to try stitch together a compromise for a society that is viable in the long term.

5 million and counting, we went from 4 to 5 in record time.

What will the country be like when it's 10 million? And those immigrants have just retired?


Ooh! I know! Let's get some more people in. The Waikato river will be like the Ganges.

Well, Capitalism is an Economic system, not a political system...

[onearmedbandit]

Economy is my metric, you can't compare China, they still have 300 million people in rural China living well below the poverty line, happy none the less

Would you use the GDP then?

[mashman]

Would you use the GDP then?

Why not poverty?

"As per China's national poverty line, 8.5 percent of people were in poverty in 2013, which decreased to 1.7 percent in 2018."

"In 2013, about 48.8 million people or 15.8 percent of the U.S. population had income below the poverty level."

"There are 37.9 million Americans living in poverty, accounting for 11.6% of the total population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau."

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Why not poverty?

"As per China's national poverty line, 8.5 percent of people were in poverty in 2013, which decreased to 1.7 percent in 2018."

"In 2013, about 48.8 million people or 15.8 percent of the U.S. population had income below the poverty level."

"There are 37.9 million Americans living in poverty, accounting for 11.6% of the total population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau."

None of this matters, all that matters is the USD is the Reserve currency of the world so they can print as much money as they need and they have the largest most modern military machine in history to defend the dollar.

[mashman]

None of this matters, all that matters is the USD is the Reserve currency of the world so they can print as much money as they need and they have the largest most modern military machine in history to defend the dollar.

Nothing quite says capitalism and the free market like the threat of violence using the most destructive tools available, coz money. And yet, poverty, GDP, biodiversity and so on all seem to be thriving in a communist state... enough so to be the worlds leading producer. There's a kind of poetry in that, almost as poetic as trying to avoid the economically inevitable given the amount of production that got shipped offshore a long time ago. Oops.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Don't get me wrong, I like poor people, I mean who else can change the oil on my motorcycle? Me? I don't want to get my fingernails dirty.

[mashman]

Don't get me wrong, I like poor people, I mean who else can change the oil on my motorcycle? Me? I don't want to get my fingernails dirty.

Maybe the "man" of your house will.

[MD]

I used to identify as capitalist but now I'm centrist, if that's a thing. Clearly Socialism is a failed social experiment. That's obvious.

But rampant Capitalism has almost as many problems. We need to try stitch together a compromise for a society that is viable in the long term.

5 million and counting, we went from 4 to 5 in record time.

What will the country be like when it's 10 million? And those immigrants have just retired?


Ooh! I know! Let's get some more people in. The Waikato river will be like the Ganges.
Funny I have not gone near this thread before. Dave has hit the nail on the head of all the world's problems. Over bloody population.
People starving- well some landscapes simply cannot support millions of fast breeding people. Let's say Sudan, Bangladesh and Ethiopia for starters. Pollution, Climate change- well maybe 7 billion people driving cars isn't helping. Running out of clean water, running out of oil, running out of food, running out of native wilderness, running out of diversity of animals, running out of oxygen producing forests (Amazon springs to mind). Destroying the very atmosphere that has allowed life to exist on Earth. Nations going to war over this and that. None of this would have happened if we had never exceeded 1 billion people on Earth.

I get sick of science experts saying global warming and all these problems are caused by this and that (fossil fuels, pollutants etc). No it's not. The root cause of most of Life on Earth's problems is over population by humans. I expect that at some point in the future our self-indulgence with breeding will wipe most of mankind out and life on Earth will finally be allowed to heal itself.
I cannot see how NZ with 6 million people, then 8, then 10 million then... can be a nicer place. It was wonderful at 3m.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

^^ sounds like your solution is maybe a vaccine that could sterilize us, or perhaps increase our cancer rate, if only there was a way 90% of us could take it with us knowing..hmmm food for thought

I actually think the world is under populated, perhaps instead of wasting money on think tanks, or trans gender eco friendly black life matters or whatever is the next woke craze, how about we invest in some of our smartest minds on Earth to figure out how to make the planet more sustainable, most of the land in New Zealand and the Earth doesn't have anyone living on it, yes for geographical, weather or just not practical reasons , but instead of taking the easy way out with mass genocide of 50% of the Earth's population, why not let the thinkers, dreamers, engineers, scientists figure how too re locate the rest of the planet, he'll even cities on the oceans would be a start...

[mashman]

Overpopulation?

8 billion people. 1.7 sustainable planets. Oxfam reported 20% consuming 80% of production, so let's say 30% consuming 70% of production, just coz.

You end up with 2.4 billion people consuming 1.19 sustainable planets with the other 5.6 billion somehow managing on 0.51 sustainable planets.

If consumption was linear, yes, over population would be the primary candidate for production overshoot. It isn't.

The world produces enough food for 10 billion people, has enough property to house everyone, and there's more than enough fuel to go around, but instead that useful stuff is being wasted for Non-Essential purposes simply to create the 1's n 0's that fund Essential production. COVID showed us just how much of what we do is Non-Essential.

So you're gonna have to kill the majority of the western world to make a dent in sustainability and resource use in general. That's what the numbers say... and the sustainable planets number, 1.7, is considered by all who play with the metrics that make up these calculations to be on the low side in terms of estimation.

Turns out capitalists are leaving a billion or so in poverty despite abundance and then blaming those people for existing despite their lack of means to acquire anything and the exceptionally basic standard of living available... but hey, the numbers must be wrong.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Funny I have not gone near this thread before. Dave has hit the nail on the head of all the world's problems. Over bloody population.
People starving- well some landscapes simply cannot support millions of fast breeding people. Let's say Sudan, Bangladesh and Ethiopia for starters..

These people are poor

The last thing poor people give a fuck about is climate change

Their only mission in life is not to be poor, you know like the Western world a century or so ago

And as for New Zealand, if a tsunami sunk the entire country tommorow, this wouldn't help climate change one bit, we are that insignificant, it's the poor country's in Asia and South America that will decide our fate, but like I said, these people don't give a fuck about climate change, all they care about is not being poor and keeping their kids alive until the next meal, so unless you want to sacrifice yourself and your family for climate change, I doubt these poor country's will want too either


This is where investment in innovation needs to come into play.

[F5 Dave]

Funny I have not gone near this thread before. Dave has hit the nail on the head of all the world's problems. Over bloody population.
People starving- well some landscapes simply cannot support millions of fast breeding people. Let's say Sudan, Bangladesh and Ethiopia for starters. Pollution, Climate change- well maybe 7 billion people driving cars isn't helping. Running out of clean water, running out of oil, running out of food, running out of native wilderness, running out of diversity of animals, running out of oxygen producing forests (Amazon springs to mind). Destroying the very atmosphere that has allowed life to exist on Earth. Nations going to war over this and that. None of this would have happened if we had never exceeded 1 billion people on Earth.

I get sick of science experts saying global warming and all these problems are caused by this and that (fossil fuels, pollutants etc). No it's not. The root cause of most of Life on Earth's problems is over population by humans. I expect that at some point in the future our self-indulgence with breeding will wipe most of mankind out and life on Earth will finally be allowed to heal itself.
I cannot see how NZ with 6 million people, then 8, then 10 million then... can be a nicer place. It was wonderful at 3m.
And you have expanded very nicely into my next intended point. For some strange reason, increasing world population is not brought up as a climate change main driver. Every new consumer. . . Consumes.

[Laava]

Im gunna vote for you Dave

[pritch]

Or maybe it's rampant capitalists like martin shkreli ("pharma bro")who obtained the manufacturing license for the antiparasitic drug Daraprim, a drug that was so cheap it wasn't worth other companies competing, and raised its price by 5,455% (from US$13.50 to $750 per pill).


Exactly and there was also the huge Epipen price increase. Not because of any inbuilt costs, simply because they could. The CEO got paid millions but there was a slight PR setback when it was learned that she was the daughter of a sitting US Senator.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epipen-price-hike-controversy-mylan-ceo-heather-bresch-speaks-out/

[MD]

^^ sounds like your solution is maybe a vaccine that could sterilize us, or perhaps increase our cancer rate, if only there was a way 90% of us could take it with us knowing..hmmm food for thought

..

Well that's one giant leap for mankind you just took there with my post. No where was I suggesting mass deaths or sterilisations.

My point was we shouldn't have gotten to 7 billion in the first place, or is 9 now? Well, it will be by tomorrow or the following week. Just because we may be able to squeeze every morsel of nutrient out of the Earth doesn't make it right. The idea that if there is unpopulated, unspoilt land somewhere we must rip it up, concrete over it and stick as many people over it as possible, just because science and engineering allow us too, doesn't make it right. We are just one of millions of creatures that deserve to live on Earth. Having technology doesn't mean we can drive all the others to extinction.

Humans are behaving like rats in a barn of grain. Eat, breed, eat, breed, eat, breed,...starve and die (with a bit of cannabalism thrown in at the end for show)

My Brother's partner is from India and goes back regularly. Each time she is shocked at the worsening density of the growing population. She describes it as horrible to go out anywhere. Constantly hard-pressed shoulder to shoulder in every street, shop, building, bus, train... How wonderful. I've been there, it's not pretty and a depressing taste of what an exponentially expanding population will deliver to us all. Yes, sadly there are millions of poor people and they didn't ask to be that way and there's little they can do about it. That is still not an excuse or justification for unsustainable population growth.

The idea that more people create more wealth, so that's got to be good and should continue to infinity and beyond is so short sighted. Step back and look at the bigger picture- life on Earth, a finite place.

Simple maths- 7 billion people consume and create more waste and pollution than 1 billion every could.

[TheDemonLord]

Well that's one giant leap for mankind you just took there with my post. No where was I suggesting mass deaths or sterilisations.

....

Simple maths- 7 billion people consume and create more waste and pollution than 1 billion every could.

With all due respect - What is the solution to that simple Maths Problem as you called it?

If 1 Billion people are less pressure on the Earth than 7 Billion, what is the solution?

It's not a Giant Leap, it is merely the next logical step.

FWIW - I think the Earths population could support significantly more people than currently - the question though is whether we want to live like that.

[R650R]

None of this matters, all that matters is the USD is the Reserve currency of the world so they can print as much money as they need and they have the largest most modern military machine in history to defend the dollar.

USA military is a paper tiger in terms of conventional warfare. They are only good at blowing up third world dictatorships where the CIA installed puppet has gone rogue.
In a proper sustained conflict they will be severely out of ammo and resources in several weeks. Ground forces number far less than at time of gulf war, being a soldier is too much hard work for the new generation.
Naval forces will be made redundant by the latest anti-ship missiles. AirPower needs substantial ground based logistical support.
Western nations don’t have the ability to quickly ramp up production of critical components, too much stuff is outsourced to over seas suppliers who may be adversary’s.
BRICS nations are implementing a new currency that will trump the dollar.

[R650R]

It was only a few decades ago at about 3-4 billion people were panicking about 5billion. Well we quickly smoked past that to 7 billion and a few problems aside she’s all going Tickety boo quite well.
BTW people we are pretty much at 8 Billion these days might wanna update your research sources.

There are ample resources to go round they just need to be better managed. The biggest threat to humanity will be the (deliberate) loss of petroleum powered mass agriculture production. Couple that with eventual banning of meat sources we will quickley give ourselves a Mayan style correction the year the crops fail...

Currently every person on earth could have their own 55,000 M2 of land each.

[MD]

With all due respect - What is the solution to that simple Maths Problem as you called it?

If 1 Billion people are less pressure on the Earth than 7 Billion, what is the solution?

It's not a Giant Leap, it is merely the next logical step.

FWIW - I think the Earths population could support significantly more people than currently - the question though is whether we want to live like that.

I sure wouldn't want to live that way. I'm not proposing we call Thanos to click his fingers. Halting the rate of population growth would be a start. We can of course take no action, continue on so as not to upset people's delicate feelings and freedoms to breed without consequence. Then we can all act surprised when the inevitable catastrophic collapse happens and we discover 'oh bugger, there were consequences, well I never saw that coming'

Nature will press reset if we don't.

[TheDemonLord]

USA military is a paper tiger in terms of conventional warfare. They are only good at blowing up third world dictatorships where the CIA installed puppet has gone rogue.
In a proper sustained conflict they will be severely out of ammo and resources in several weeks. Ground forces number far less than at time of gulf war, being a soldier is too much hard work for the new generation.
Naval forces will be made redundant by the latest anti-ship missiles. AirPower needs substantial ground based logistical support.
Western nations don’t have the ability to quickly ramp up production of critical components, too much stuff is outsourced to over seas suppliers who may be adversary’s.
BRICS nations are implementing a new currency that will trump the dollar.

Gotta disagree here - We haven't seen the US fight in a war that has overwhelming popular support. General Knudsen from WW2 showed that for a genuine existential threat to the US, they can ramp up production relatively quickly.

The other advantage is that US Military equipment still has a significant advantage over other nations. Russia has been shown wanting in the Ukraine, with too many systems that on paper would be equivalent to NATO stuff is just not up-to-scratch.

Not to forget that the issues of Ammo and Resources would apply equally to their adversaries as well. Including the majority of small arms ammunition manufacturing is in the US. Most of the 'shortages' in Ammo we've seen has been in part due to Biden/Lockdown etc. but also due to the US domestic market buying it up. In a full war-time footing, everything would be going the troops.

We've not seen the effect of a near-peer ASM on a western ship. Would the counter-measures be effective? Possibly - also looking at things like SINKEX - even a lowly Oliver Perry class Frigate was able to stay afloat, without any damage control parties after one hell of a beatig.

As for the Air-Force - America rules the Air. Strategic aerial refueling has shown that they can deploy from the US and hit anywhere on earth.

[pritch]

USA military is a paper tiger in terms of conventional warfare. They are only good at blowing up third world dictatorships where the CIA installed puppet has gone rogue.
In a proper sustained conflict they will be severely out of ammo and resources in several weeks.

Maybe. Currently the US munitions industry is operating on a peace time basis. They can crank it up to war time levels quite quickly - what's left of it anyway.

This has already caused problems in Ukraine. The Western munitions manufacturers are working at peace time pace. Ukraine is burning through their products at war time pace.

[onearmedbandit]

I sure wouldn't want to live that way. I'm not proposing we call Thanos to click his fingers. Halting the rate of population growth would be a start. We can of course take no action, continue on so as not to upset people's delicate feelings and freedoms to breed without consequence. Then we can all act surprised when the inevitable catastrophic collapse happens and we discover 'oh bugger, there were consequences, well I never saw that coming'

Nature will press reset if we don't.

There's growing concern worldwide about a slowing birth rate already, Japan was one of the first nations to really take note of this as a genuine issue. Already they are facing a situation where the numbers of those who are retired and no longer productive are growing while the numbers of those who are productive are falling. As the pressures and demands of work increase more and more people are either putting off having families longer, if not entirely.

[F5 Dave]

There's more to Japan's societal problems than just that.

But thier tiny percentage of the world's population is not representative.

[onearmedbandit]

There's more to Japan's societal problems than just that.

But thier tiny percentage of the world's population is not representative.

What's their societal problems got to do with a post about their aging population? I wasn't stating any causation or other issue, simply the fact that their population is aging. Also I didn't say it was exclusively their problem, I simply highlighted them as they were one of the first nations to really start to tackle the issue, also as some of my family are Japanese it's an issue of interest that I've heard discussed many times when over there. A quick google will show you it's now a worldwide issue.

[Berries]

I blame Luxon.

[mashman]

What's their societal problems got to do with a post about their aging population? I wasn't stating any causation or other issue, simply the fact that their population is aging. Also I didn't say it was exclusively their problem, I simply highlighted them as they were one of the first nations to really start to tackle the issue, also as some of my family are Japanese it's an issue of interest that I've heard discussed many times when over there. A quick google will show you it's now a worldwide issue.

Pensions don't work very well when there's less working people paying towards them... among other things.

[TheDemonLord]

I blame Luxon.

*pulls the 'Fuck National' flag out of storage*

[F5 Dave]

To be fair your starting point was a lower birth rate not ageing population. Sorry if I touched a nerve there.
A worldwide issue except in the countries that are drastically increasing population.

[onearmedbandit]

To be fair your starting point was a lower birth rate not ageing population. Sorry if I touched a nerve there.
A worldwide issue except in the countries that are drastically increasing population.

No nerve touched at all, just wondered what your post on Japan's societal issues had to do with my post on a worldwide population ageing issue, which is being exacerbated by a declining birth rate.