06 R6...Fly-by-wire

[louisb]

I was just reading:

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/news.html

and is says the new 06 R6 will have fly-by-wire!!!

Is this the first production bike to have this?


The new R6 has got fly-by-wire* electronic throttle. Yamaha calls the system YCC-T. Read more about fly-by-wire below. The only reason you would want fly-by-wire on a motorcycle is basically traction control. TS

*Fly-by-wire explained: If the fully mapped characteristics of the engine are known, taking into account RPM, throttle opening, air density (including ram-air effects), engine temperature, fuel temperature etc., the throttles can be controlled by the engine computer to deliver torque proportional to throttle position. If the engine cannot deliver as much as the rider is demanding (due for instance to too low RPM) it just goes to maximum throttle. This is the most progressive engine, as it takes out all the dips and bumps in the torque curve, and means that the engine designer can tune for maximum power. The second option is a variation on this, with the gear ratio being used to modify the throttle setting so that the rear wheel torque is controlled directly. With the ratio selection now also under full computer control, the optimum ratio for acceleration can be selected instead of a higher than optimum ratio, which riders often use to reduce the response of the engine to throttle changes and thus facilitate control of the motorcycle.

[limbimtimwim]

I was just reading:http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/news.html
and is says the new 06 R6 will have fly-by-wire!!!Fly by wire, electronic adjustable suspension (BMW), ABS (Various), Airbags (Honda), Two wheel drive (Yamaha)..

What next? 4 wheels? A roof? A Microwave oven?!?

[louisb]

These new fangled machines!

[Paul in NZ]

Don't take this the wrong way but.....

Feck me dead.... No throttle cable? No feeling the weight of the bike against your palm? (sigh) No direct mechanical connection to the engine???

How long before we just buy a video game or a simulator? Gods teeth I'm glad I'm old and don't care anymore... Give me my old piece of crap built by people that cared rather than faceless robots... I don't care how well they go this aint right...

Or

Have i got it wrong again...

[Magua]

Or

Have i got it wrong again...

Time will tell.

[James Deuce]

I like this gadget stuff, and I have to say I'm tempted.

But...just think of how many things can go wrong! How much would it all cost to fix!!

This will render my Duct Tape/Pipe Clear/Cable Tie toolkit obsolete!

[froggyfrenchman]

Im with you paul. How far do they have to go before we arnt atcualy riding a bike? jujst along for the ride dosnt sound like much fun to me

[SPman]

Aprilias GP bike was all fly by wire.
The riders hated it!

[Ixion]

Argghhh. I still haven't reconciled myself to the disappearance of the manual advance/retard. I like to make my own calls, not leave it to some damn computer

[Paul in NZ]

Im with you paul. How far do they have to go before we arnt atcualy riding a bike? jujst along for the ride dosnt sound like much fun to me

Exactly... I know I'm old and will in all probability never manage to get enough money to stay put in one place to afford one of these devices but frankly, they have all the appeal of an inflatable butt plug. ie Once I have got over the astonishment that they exist I wonder why anyone would possible need such a thing couple with a certain curiosity as I realise I may have been missing out on one of lifes great pleasures mixed with the certainty that I would not have enjoyed it much anyway!

I sit here listening to Emmy Lou signing her heart out over her dead lover and knowing I'm listening to something inately human, warts and all....

I think of my neglected old Trumpy waiting patiently for her glory days to come again and the wonderful Guzzi. Both built by people that even cared enough to make their own nuts and bolts... Yeah I know, it makes no economic sense and Big Dave thinks I'm a dumb old cunt but they have 'something' that can't be turned out like jello... Guts, an essence, something that smells of funny old geezers, kerosine and oily rags... Commitment to an ideal and ideas above their station... Connection....

And I'll tell you what...

I'm glad I can feel it... It's something that tugs at your soul and that you seldom tire of... Rightness... Every apex you kiss, every time you let the throttle run a little more than is strictly needed you feel an unbroken line of snaggle toothed old geezers nodding in appreciation that you still dare to use something so pointless in the manner it was intended...

The ultimate expression of the conversion of petroleum to noise, forwards motion and fun....

Fly by wire? Piss off... I'm flying by cable thanks...

[Brains]

Hmmm, seems like it would be better suited to a larger machine aka R1.

[bugjuice]

what about power steering? we need power steering on bikes I reckon..

actually, on a semi-serious note, think they'll do wire gear shift too? Don't know about clutchless (may be semi-clutch?), but instead of the clunk of changing..
don't know about wire throttle either.. might sound stupid, but do they go wrong?

[louisb]

I've got a 1975 Mercedes 240 Diesel. That thing has a kind of soul. People have been telling me for years to 'get rid of it'. I just love the old thing. It's got a solid throttle connection using bars and such. you can feel the vibration of the engine through the pedel.

But I've also got a love of new technology. I'd love to own both ends of the scale. Just to keep a balance. one day soon.

[motobob]

Wonder if it will still be on the 07 model. Technology like this is great in the early road tests and bagged the following year. Of course I could be wrong but it would put me off buying one.

[R6_kid]

why is it called fly by wire? Last time i checked you needed lift to get off the ground and therefore be considered "flying", does this mean that it only works when the bike is in the air? :hitcher:

you cant transfer technology, but please change the fricken name so its relevant...

i like the thought, but doubt i'd like riding it.

[Paul in NZ]

Wonder if it will still be on the 07 model. Technology like this is great in the early road tests and bagged the following year. Of course I could be wrong but it would put me off buying one.

Yeah but it sells magazines to the vacuous hordes eh!

[TwoSeven]

fly by wire has been around on prototype motorcycles for years - although not in production bikes. Even I have been doing various designs (mainly on the clutch side)on and off for a while - just to experiment with theory.

All it means is that there is an electronic circuit between the switch and the device being controlled. The switch being the throttle, clutch, gear lever or brake levers and the devices - the units each of those controls.

The gear change system used on GP bikes is a classic varient of this - although they dont use a downshifter because it removes the tactile feel you need to control the bike.

The throttle is an easy one to do because its only a position sensor anyhow - the tactile feel is provided by a spring return and the feel thru the chasis (including engine noise). Whether there is a physical cable or not makes no difference because most riders wouldnt be able to tell.

All that throttle position tells the machine is what part of the carb circuit to use and if thats mapped on to electronic ignition it doesnt even have to do that (road speed takes over that job). The throttle then turns into a percentage of maximum capable speed (so if the bike is capable of 180mph, 50% throttle means 90mph).

They build in tactile feedback because your average road rider wiggles the throttle all over the place, where a good rider will be very precise every time in setting the throttle position. The tactile feedback is what newbie riders associate with performance - so without it -the bike would get bad reviews.

If you really want to bend your mind round it a bit, have a look at an F1 car. The steering wheel isnt connected to anything :)

[R6_kid]

i know it will only drain minimal power, but is this not taking away from the engines main function... powering the bike. NOT electric motors to control the throttle bodies/injectors?

[Zed]

Interesting new technology indeed, but I havn't even owned a fuel-injected bike yet, so my *fly-by-wire* experience can wait for a few years until I've tried some of the old technology first! :cool:

[SPORK]

Interesting new technology indeed, but I havn't even owned a fuel-injected bike yet, so my *fly-by-wire* experience can wait for a few years until I've tried some of the old technology first! :cool:
The 'bird isn't FI? Hmm, learn something new every day...

[Sniper]

Not too keen on it. Yet another expensive gadget to go wrong and instead of spending $40 on a cable, you are now spending $900 on diagnosis, repairs, testing and new Hooesamajigets.

[Zed]

The 'bird isn't FI? Hmm, learn something new every day...Birds came out in 97 carbed and in 99 changed to EFI...I have a 97.

[Bonez]

Was bound to happen on proddy bikes and good on the tuning fork company for giving it a shot. Wonder if they test bedded the system on their pianos first?
Oh and I'll stick with cables for a tinsy winsy bit longer.

[Lou Girardin]

The RC211v has a hybrid electronic/ mechanical throttle. The basic idea is to give consistant torque control per degree of throttle movement in various gear ratios.

[Ixion]

The Alfatoy has fly by wire throttle. To be honest, you'd never know it. Then again, a cage is different to a bike in terms of how closely one is connected to the machinery. And I just don't like the idea. Cos I'm old fashioned. And I like to poke and prod for myself, not have a computer decide for me. The rot started with vacuum advance and retard, and those damn little swinging weights in the distributor. I reckon the handlebars of bikes should be covered with levers to adjust everything.

[Marknz]

I'm figuring that if Garry McCoy and Colin Edwards couldn't handle it on a fully fledged multi million dollar race bike, then I ain't even gonna try it on a road back. That's Yamaha off the race bike list.

[loosebruce]

Aprilias GP bike was all fly by wire.
The riders hated it!

That was a few years ago now, and it was still in it's delvelopment stage, i'm pretty sure Kenny Roberts had a fly by on his suzuki round the same time, it took a few riders to sort out and test at the time and it wasn't always smooth sailing for them, like edwards. But now i think you'll find that all motogp bikes have the same or simalar set up to a fly by system.
It was only a matter of time before they brought it out on a road bike, well done to yamaha, stepping up the game once again.

[Marknz]

That was a few years ago now, and it was still in it's delvelopment stage, i'm pretty sure Kenny Roberts had a fly by on his suzuki round the same time, it took a few riders to sort out and test at the time and it wasn't always smooth sailing for them, like edwards. But now i think you'll find that all motogp bikes have the same or simalar set up to a fly by system.
It was only a matter of time before they brought it out on a road bike, well done to yamaha, stepping up the game once again.

Yes, it has been tried by more than just Aprilia but nope, most of the riders refuse to use that technology as they do not have the 'feel' of a cable operated throttle.

[inlinefour]

Don't take this the wrong way but.....

Feck me dead.... No throttle cable? No feeling the weight of the bike against your palm? (sigh) No direct mechanical connection to the engine???

How long before we just buy a video game or a simulator? Gods teeth I'm glad I'm old and don't care anymore... Give me my old piece of crap built by people that cared rather than faceless robots... I don't care how well they go this aint right...

Or

Have i got it wrong again...

Sounds like me playing moto gp2 & 3 on xbox. That is, playing with a controller in a comforty seat with a big telly in frount of me. This is all good and fine when its raining, but not my idea of fun when I wish to do some actual riding...

[TwoSeven]

Tactile: "Of or relating to the sense of touch"

Its a silly belief to think that in fly by wire you dont have any feel of whats going on. As I said in my earlier post - they build tactile feeling into the control. For the throttle, its not needed - using throttle feel just retards your capability on the bike - what they might do, after bimota finding out the hard way with the v-due is to set some slack in the movement. By slack its meant that a delay is added to the control being moved and its effect being felt. This delay is done to mirror the fuel pickup delay that occurs in carb based bikes. Its also deliberately built into FI bikes as well (it stops idiot journalists bitching I guess).

As I said, a good rider that can set the throttle precisely for each move wont need that delay (watch them feeling the shifts out with the clutch instead) - you can tell when a bike is set up with a reduced delay because noob riders pogo around trying to work out how the throttle works.

I guess the best way of describing it is when you move to a 1/4 turn throttle from the 1/2 turn ones.

[Dodge10]

Sounds like me playing moto gp2 & 3 on xbox. That is, playing with a controller in a comforty seat with a big telly in frount of me. This is all good and fine when its raining, but not my idea of fun when I wish to do some actual riding...
is moto gp3 is out on xbox yet INLINEFOUR ?

[Sparky Bills]

Thats cool

[Nutter34]

All this complaining... Geez....
It's the next step, just a small advance in thechnology.
Efi basically drives a sensor by cable which tells the computer where the throttle's at, now it's all electronic.... As for any problems the GP guys could have had... Keep in mind that was a few years ago and processor technology has moved on a bit since then.....
Whoopy.

Like the cars half of you drive don't have fancy electronics that control the performance....

It's called technology.... sorta like what your pxt phones, broadband, plasma tv's, etc are based on......

[TwoSeven]

I think the biggest problem is that human nerves work in hundredths of a second. It takes roughly a 10th of a second for a signal to travel to your brain, and another 10th for the response to come back (factoring in distance). In that time a fuel injection system is responding to signals in millionths of a second.

The computers have been more than capable of dealing with anything for several decades now. The problem has always been with the humans - trying to develop a system that allows their slow response not to upset the bike.