Alternative fuels [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

bogan

16th May 2015, 12:03

It always amazes me how quickly some people form a conclusion before they've even investigated an idea.

It always amazes me how some people assume the thing they find online has not been found (and investigated) many times before.

He's a known scammer preying on society's weak minded, good fucking job he is going to the slammer/nuthouse.

Katman

16th May 2015, 12:27

It always amazes me how some people assume the thing they find online has not been found (and investigated) many times before.

Let me guess.....you've seen something on Mythbusters or you've read something on Snopes.

bogan

16th May 2015, 12:33

Let me guess.....you've seen something on Mythbusters or you've read something on Snopes.

No, I've looked at the 'theory' and come to the conclusion that it is just an engine running on dino juice, with the water being filtered off and used to cool/purify the exhaust.

Have you got to the working theory part yet? I'd be happy to discuss this with you.

Drew

16th May 2015, 12:47

Some further info.

http://www.geetfriends.net/

He sounds like the modern day Nikola Tesla.Tesla was fucken crazy, intent on unknowingly releasing huge radiation into the atmosphere via microwaves, and dead fucken wrong in his belief that AC power is superior to DC.

Katman

16th May 2015, 12:57

Have you got to the working theory part yet? I'd be happy to discuss this with you.

http://www.rexresearch.com/pantone/pantone.htm

Katman

16th May 2015, 13:10

Tesla was fucken crazy, intent on unknowingly releasing huge radiation into the atmosphere via microwaves, and dead fucken wrong in his belief that AC power is superior to DC.

Well you know what they say Drew.....

There's a fine line between genius and insanity.

Drew

16th May 2015, 13:26

Well you know what they say Drew.....

There's a fine line between genius and insanity.
No doubt he was brilliant, just nuttier than squirrel shit.

He could have been a much larger part of the worlds history I think, if he had taken on board what others were doing and worked in a similar direction.

A terrible shame really, I think electronics could be even further advanced than they are if he'd been on board with the programs other people were working.

Anyway, back to the topic.

Dunno about the science of it, but lots of people have done something similar and posted similar results. But no one seems to do it with more complex motors.

Possibly because when ya start restricting exhaust flow on a motor in any decent state of tune, you quickly undo any gains achieved by the cleaner/more complete burn.

bogan

16th May 2015, 13:32

http://www.rexresearch.com/pantone/pantone.htm

See how there is always conventional fuel in the system? And see how that is filtered through the water?

Katman

16th May 2015, 13:33

Possibly because when ya start restricting exhaust flow on a motor in any decent state of tune, you quickly undo any gains achieved by the cleaner/more complete burn.

Fair point.

It would probably only be of any real use in an aplication where performance wasn't required but where continuous, cheap running was the number one priority.

Katman

16th May 2015, 13:40

See how there is always conventional fuel in the system? And see how that is filtered through the water?

Once the 100% conventional fuel scource used for starting the process is turned off though the engine then seems to run on a fuel/water mix.

It then would come down to measuring the length of time the engine runs for on the fuel/water mix compared to the same amount of 100% fuel.

If it ran for a significantly longer time than the percentage of fuel in the fuel/water mix would ordinarily suggest then surely the water is acting as some form of power scource.

bogan

16th May 2015, 14:31

Once the 100% conventional fuel scource used for starting the process is turned off though the engine then seems to run on a fuel/water mix.

It then would come down to measuring the length of time the engine runs for on the fuel/water mix compared to the same amount of 100% fuel.

If it ran for a significantly longer time than the percentage of fuel in the fuel/water mix would ordinarily suggest then surely the water is acting as some form of power scource.

Not necessarily, because the exhaust is pumped through that water, running rich to start with could result in a secondary store of fuel, which has a lower vapor point so comes back thorugh to the engine before water clogs it up.

The obvious tests worth doing are overall fuel economy runs. How far will a car fitted with one of those get on 1L of fuel compared to a modern car.

Where are those tests?

Katman

16th May 2015, 16:22

Not necessarily, because the exhaust is pumped through that water, running rich to start with could result in a secondary store of fuel, which has a lower vapor point so comes back thorugh to the engine before water clogs it up.

Have you found any information that suggests that water eventually clogs this system up or are you just guessing?

bogan

16th May 2015, 16:39

Have you found any information that suggests that water eventually clogs this system up or are you just guessing?

Water isn't flammable.

Jeez, surprised I have to tell this to one of the fuel can't melt steel beams crowd...

Katman

16th May 2015, 16:43

Water isn't flammable.

Jeez, surprised I have to tell this to one of the fuel can't melt steel beams crowd...

Hydrogen is though.

And oxygen certainly aids flammability.

bogan

16th May 2015, 16:45

Hydrogen is though.

Sure is,do you believe that is what is fed back into the intake manifold?

Ulsterkiwi

16th May 2015, 16:47

I am no engineer and am not dismissing the idea.
I heard a story similar to this 25 years ago, from a mate who had just graduated with his mechanical engineering degree. He heard it from one of his lecturers at Uni and the story was 15+ years old then. I am wondering how something as revolutionary as this would be suppressed for 40+ years without some other fella being able to replicate the invention? Sometimes people are known as the inventor or discoverer, only because they happened to be the first, not because they were the only one working on the idea.
I can understand one or two people being "leaned on" but how is it possible that a company or series of companies could systematically wipe out the experimental work of every single guy with a bit of engineering nous who gets close to this around the entire globe? In some ways that sounds more fantastical to me than a motor running on 80% water.

Conspiracy theories aside, who knows, this might actually work. Look at the way battery technology has progressed in the last few years!

Crasherfromwayback

16th May 2015, 16:50

. Look at the way battery technology has progressed in the last few years!

Don't start that up here! :Police:

Katman

16th May 2015, 16:51

Sure is,do you believe that is what is fed back into the intake manifold?

Do you know (with absolute certainty) exactly what is being fed back into the intake manifold?

Ulsterkiwi

16th May 2015, 16:52

Don't start that up here! :Police:

oops, yeah forgot......

uhm....damn those batteries! I love carbon emissions...not a real bike unless its loud and smoking....hippie batteries......lets burn some oil!!!!!!

Better Pete?

Crasherfromwayback

16th May 2015, 16:55

.....lets burn some oil!!!!!!

Better Pete?

Considerably so mate.

Drew

16th May 2015, 17:01

Heat doesn't separate hydrogen from oxygen. Well, not the type of heat gained from a Brigg&Stratton exhaust anyway.

There is mention of plasma, but I fail to see how it's generated or where.

bogan

16th May 2015, 17:02

Do you know (with absolute certainty) exactly what is being fed back into the intake manifold?

Not with absolute certainty no. But I can sure deduce some things. The reason I asked you that question is my concern over how the weak minded are bing mislead, do you think that a bit of heat and some dino-juice catalysts are enough to convert water to hydrogen and oxygen? is that what his theory is telling you?

Katman

16th May 2015, 17:08

The reason I asked you that question is my concern over how the weak minded are bing mislead, do you think that a bit of heat and some dino-juice catalysts are enough to convert water to hydrogen and oxygen? is that what his theory is telling you?

I'm not a chemistry graduate.

I'm still trying to figure out whether the iron bar inside the structure has something to do with a process that hasn't been fully appreciated yet.

husaberg

16th May 2015, 17:10

Tesla was fucken crazy, intent on unknowingly releasing huge radiation into the atmosphere via microwaves, and dead fucken wrong in his belief that AC power is superior to DC.

Yes and No, his AC vs Edisons DC. Tesla came upon top for over 60 years.

Have you ever seen a Tesla valve. Or tesla Turbine
To be able to do something so simply is bloody clever Drew.

He certainly had an disorganised mind but most of his inventions stand the test of time.
He also invented the Wireless radio, google it. It took years to prove.
It also broke him in doing so. Edison had a huge team of helpers and much better publicity.

Re the original post someone unscrupulous could do that by filling the crankcase with an oil petrol mixture if it had a poor ring seal.
I also note crude, has some very light fractions contained in it.

I looked through the patent for it http://www.google.com/patents/US5794601
Despite what the inventor says in the video It actually looks like a form of a gasification to me.

http://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/wood_gasifier1.jpg

Katman

16th May 2015, 17:17

I also not crude has some very light fractions contained in it.

If you want people to take you seriously you should probably consider posting in English.

bogan

16th May 2015, 17:20

I'm not a chemistry graduate.

I'm still trying to figure out whether the iron bar inside the structure has something to do with a process that hasn't been fully appreciated yet.

Do you listen to those who are though?

And why hasn't it?

Katman

16th May 2015, 17:24

Do you listen to those who are though?

Have we had a chemistry graduate contribute to the thread yet?

And why hasn't it?

What? Do you actually think science knows all there is to know already?

bogan

16th May 2015, 17:29

Have we had a chemistry graduate contribute to the thread yet?

What? Do you actually think science knows all there is to know already?

They've weighed in on his theories before.

Why hasn't it been fully appreciated?

So far there is no viable working theory or tests thereof. There is no working model showing any superiority to conventional engines, or even showing it runs on hydrogen. After 25odd years too. What makes you think the courts were wrong to send him to slammer/nuthouse?

Katman

16th May 2015, 17:32

What makes you think the courts were wrong to send him to slammer/nuthouse?

See, that's what makes you a fucking moron.

What the fuck has him being sent to a nuthouse have to do with the theory of what we're discussing?

bogan

16th May 2015, 17:37

See, that's what makes you a fucking moron.

What the fuck has him being sent to a nuthouse have to do with the theory of what we're discussing?

Because if the theory is clearly not valid then he is right to be sent there for pushing his fraud.

You've stopped discussing the theory so i thought another tack might be in order. Or do you now want to say if you think it generates hydrogen or not?

husaberg

16th May 2015, 17:40

Do you listen to those who are though?

And why hasn't it?

Even if it was debunked by chemist or engineers it could be still a big oil in a conspiracy plot
The inventor claims they drilled his teeth.
he also reportedly charges 3500 dollar for a weekend seminar to show people how it works.
Free seems pretty expensive these days.
http://kfor.com/2012/11/09/the-man-with-the-magic-motor/
http://okgazette.com/2013/01/02/liquid-energy
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/fall/the-madman-and-his-motor

Katman

16th May 2015, 17:49

Or do you now want to say if you think it generates hydrogen or not?

What part of "I'm no chemistry graduate" don't you understand?

Are you trying to win this argument by stupidity?

bogan

16th May 2015, 17:53

What part of "I'm no chemistry graduate" don't you understand?

Are you trying to win this argument by stupidity?

The bit where despite admittedly not having the background to have made a call on the veracity of this guy's work, you seem to have made one anyway.

We covered quite a range of chemistry background as part of the modern engineering degree, you can't create hydrogen with heat and a bit or iron/fuel; it just isn't possible as it would violate the conservation of energy principals (which numerous PhD's in numerous fields have weighed in on and agreed with).

husaberg

16th May 2015, 17:57

The bit where despite admittedly not having the background to have made a call on the veracity of this guy's work, you seem to have made one anyway.

We covered quite a range of chemistry background as part of the modern engineering degree, you can't create hydrogen with heat and a bit or iron/fuel; it just isn't possible as it would violate the conservation of energy principals (which numerous PhD's in numerous fields have weighed in on and agreed with).

<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xk7Y7NippQ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

......................

bogan

16th May 2015, 18:05

nodrog

16th May 2015, 18:32

What happened to the nz guy that was running a buell on water about 20 years ago?

Maha

16th May 2015, 18:48

What happened to the nz guy that was running a buell on water about 20 years ago?

His idea evaporated.

husaberg

16th May 2015, 18:58

100 rpms per minute eh.

Any number of things that twat was describing could be easily measured and verified if he wasn't lying about them, yet they are not :sherlock:. What a crock of shit :facepalm:

I never got the chance to add the second vid.
<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ISB4WaRPrSc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This theory matches my own first theory.

PS transmutted from the first video is a real word (Never knew that)
Also note the size of the guys pupils in the first video.
Go back and have a look if you missed them.

husaberg

16th May 2015, 19:07

Have a look at this video its about 2.30 minutes in.

<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zmEqVki2hT4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

jonbuoy

16th May 2015, 20:02

Tesla was fucken crazy, intent on unknowingly releasing huge radiation into the atmosphere via microwaves, and dead fucken wrong in his belief that AC power is superior to DC.

Erm AC is far better than DC for long distance power transmission.

husaberg

16th May 2015, 20:09

Katman

16th May 2015, 21:03

Ever heard of the Transpower HVDC line?

Is it owned by Jews?

husaberg

16th May 2015, 21:06

Erm AC is far better than DC for long distance power transmission.

Conventionally Yes. but not in the case of the system now in use.
Ever heard of the Transpower HVDC line?
It was I believe the first in the world designed by the for runner to ABB.
Its the North island umbilical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island

Don't worry about how it actually works and can be more efficient because few people actually understand it at Transpower as well (true story)[/QUOTE]

Is it owned by Jews?

Its a SOE no doubt as part of the nz population contains Jewish people so yes..... are you really that stupid. No need to answer that..................
The substations were in a Camen Islands holding company a while back though, but that was a tax dodge.
Any other stupid questions you have?
Or is there more premises to make you look like an idiot you want to visit.

Flip

16th May 2015, 21:07

I don't see any magic here.

He is using fuel in semi split cycle internal combustion / steam powered system.

Keep in mind a std motor is only 20% efficent recovering some waste heat and using it as steam would inprove the efficency, in comparison a steam boiler/ triple expansion steam motor is 60% efficent. They however are heavy and have a low performance per kg.

Folks have been water injecting motors for ages. One thing they do is clean up the emmissions espcially in diesels.

Keep wearing the tin foil hats, they really do block alien signals.

bogan

16th May 2015, 21:57

Erm AC is far better than DC for long distance power transmission.

It is simpler for voltage conversion. DC is pretty much better for everything else; no syncing for generators, no power correction factors, no AC impedance/noise...

husaberg

16th May 2015, 22:03

It is simpler for voltage conversion. DC is pretty much better for everything else; no syncing for generators, no power correction factors, no AC impedance/noise...

Yes and No
it requires a lot of extra gear as well but for ultra long distances it stacks up.
it is generated as AC then changed to DC then transmitted then changed back to AC again.
For the run of the mill Transmission line it does not.
Don't overlook it also was cheaper to build the towers. ie less conductors. Plus less cook straight cables

Drew

16th May 2015, 22:06

Erm AC is far better than DC for long distance power transmission.Wrong.

It is simpler for voltage conversion. DC is pretty much better for everything else; no syncing for generators, no power correction factors, no AC impedance/noise...
DC is fine for long distance transmission. We do it here and it works mint.

eldog

16th May 2015, 22:17

Wrong.
DC is fine for long distance transmission. We do it here and it works mint.

just up the voltage for AC lower losses.:weird:

are they still using mercury based relays for the cookie strait system?

from memory thats what i saw.....

interesting tech that.

Drew

16th May 2015, 22:22

just up the voltage for AC lower losses.:weird:

are they still using mercury based relays for the cookie strait system?

from memory thats what i saw.....

interesting tech that.
Dunno, but it just got a massive upgrade with the second line.

eldog

16th May 2015, 22:33

Dunno, but it just got a massive upgrade with the second line.
i seem to remember it needed replacing quite a long time ago
a second line would be good for redundancy
not sure if the transmission line further up the nth island can cope.

been quite a few years ... I am sure some one can enlighten us

i found it quite interesting how the whole transmission system was setup and what plans were made etc. But i was only an observer for 5 minutes. Didnt know any detail but would be worth tracing all the transmission lines/power stations over NZ on the bike just for the hell of it. Theres a lot of history when you goto the power station sites.

Information boards quite often show how the dams were constructed and how developments from 20/30s affected construction. I enjoy that type of stuff - see how people lived and did stuff compared to today.

Most people drive/ride straight past those things.

AllanB

16th May 2015, 22:43

Reckon it would be better with a Yoshi on the back.

Pfffff next they will be telling us they have invented flying cars .......

husaberg

16th May 2015, 23:00

Reckon it would be better with a Yoshi on the back.

Pfffff next they will be telling us they have invented flying cars .......

Its a conspiracy that they didn't try it with one on.
Also that we don't have them yet

jonbuoy

16th May 2015, 23:03

Wrong.

DC is fine for long distance transmission. We do it here and it works mint.

For single point - for multi point not so much. Dropping the voltage through transformers is far cheaper/simpler than having a massive network of high current DC-DC converters.

First thing most DC-DC converters do is chop the DC into AC anyway.

Drew

16th May 2015, 23:29

i seem to remember it needed replacing quite a long time ago
a second line would be good for redundancy
not sure if the transmission line further up the nth island can cope.

been quite a few years ... I am sure some one can enlighten us

i found it quite interesting how the whole transmission system was setup and what plans were made etc. But i was only an observer for 5 minutes. Didnt know any detail but would be worth tracing all the transmission lines/power stations over NZ on the bike just for the hell of it. Theres a lot of history when you goto the power station sites.

Information boards quite often show how the dams were constructed and how developments from 20/30s affected construction. I enjoy that type of stuff - see how people lived and did stuff compared to today.

Most people drive/ride straight past those things.When I worked high tension, I got to travel a lot of the lines through central and west. Spent a lot of time staying at the camps at the power stations. It's pretty cool.

For single point - for multi point not so much. Dropping the voltage through transformers is far cheaper/simpler than having a massive network of high current DC-DC converters.

First thing most DC-DC converters do is chop the DC into AC anyway.I don't understand it well enough to disagree, just seems inefficient to convert it back and forwards given that DC is better for nearly everything electronic.

jonbuoy

17th May 2015, 00:04

When I worked high tension, I got to travel a lot of the lines through central and west. Spent a lot of time staying at the camps at the power stations. It's pretty cool.

I don't understand it well enough to disagree, just seems inefficient to convert it back and forwards given that DC is better for nearly everything electronic.

Heaviest consumers are motors/heaters. 220vdc would be nasty to have around the house - at least with AC you stand a chance of your muscles unclenchting.

eldog

17th May 2015, 10:14

[QUOTE=Drew;1130863896]When I worked high tension, I got to travel a lot of the lines through central and west. Spent a lot of time staying at the camps at the power stations. It's pretty cool.[QUOTE]

:Playnice::Offtopic:
Tempted to map out the power stations and transmission lines in the nth and sth is and make some road trips

Often good photo opportunities at dam/lake sites.

Would like to goto Spring Creek Coal mine - made some machinery for them I did. and visit some of the west coast while I'm at it - interested in the gold mining history in NZ

bogan

21st September 2015, 17:46

http://www.viralalternativenews.com/2015/09/open-source-plans-for-modern-tesla-free.html

Drew

21st September 2015, 18:42

http://www.viralalternativenews.com/2015/09/open-source-plans-for-modern-tesla-free.html

Put 'Tesla' on anything, and fucken crackpots will sign up and scream. "It's the second coming"!

Big Dog

21st September 2015, 18:46

Put 'Tesla' on anything, and fucken crackpots will sign up and scream. "It's the second coming"!

Tesla does Dallas...

oldrider

21st September 2015, 20:55

Conventionally Yes. but not in the case of the system now in use.
Ever heard of the Transpower HVDC line?
It was I believe the first in the world designed by the for runner to ABB.
Its the North island umbilical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island

Don't worry about how it actually works and can be more efficient because few people actually understand it at Transpower as well (true story)

Steady husa. - That comment is simply not true! :oi-grr:

oldrider

21st September 2015, 20:59