Oregon stand-off

[Katman]

So you think you know what's going on in Oregon?

In case you think it's just a bunch of red-neck slack jaws on a moonshine bender you should probably watch this.

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[sidecar bob]

If only these people could communicate in a way that doesn't make them a crashing bore & assume I already know half the story I could get past 30 seconds.
The emotive Whiney delivery doesn't help either, combined with the finger beating.

[Berries]

So you think you know what's going on in Oregon?
No. And after a minute of that video I am none the wiser.

Should we be worried?

[awa355]

I got to 2:30 and boy! if you haven't read article 2 section B clause 7, then you have no idea what's going on ;);)

I haven't, so I don't know either. :sweatdrop:sweatdrop.

[mashman]

In case you think it's just a bunch of red-neck slack jaws on a moonshine bender

... and yet you brought this to KB?



I haven't, so I don't know either. :sweatdrop:sweatdrop.

It's about perception, even though she says nothing about perception other than the perception of law society and its legality. More specifically in regards to states, territories, sovereignty and the constitutional limitations of the federal government which the government persistently ignores and is not held accountable for, because they make new laws that subvert the constitution rinse repeat until you own everything, heh, etc... ya know, freedom n shit... but with a strong, emotional american ending that everyone will be put off by to the point where they instantly forget everything that she's just said :D

[jasonu]

http://www.ktvz.com/news

This is my local TV station. It is based in Bend Oregon which is about 130 miles west of Burns.
For anyone interested there are lots of related stories and each story has a somewhat moderated forum choc full of comments from locals and not so locals.

[Oakie]

I got to 2 min 37 sec. Do I win a prize?

[trustme]

1 minute 30.
Clearly you guys are slow learners.

[rambaldi]

9.06. I left it on while I was away from my desk to have a cup of tea. Does that win?

[awa355]

I got to 2 min 37 sec. Do I win a prize?

Beat me by 7 seconds, okay, you get the chocolate fish.:cry::cry:

[awa355]

9.06. I left it on while I was away from my desk to have a cup of tea. Does that win?

Nope, that's cheating. you drop one place.:second:

[nodrog]

for fucksake

[Indoo]

In case you think it's just a bunch of red-neck slack jaws on a moonshine bender you should probably watch this.


So you posted a video of a female red-neck slack jaw with mental health issues to disprove this fact.

[JATZ]

1 minute 30.
Clearly you guys are slow learners.

I couldn't even last that long before my eyes glazed over and I started snoring :zzzz:

seemed like a load of irrelevant waffle to me :yes: But thanks anyway :niceone:

[pritch]

I watched five minutes worth because I already understood that was the point of view of the protestors: Vanilla Isis, Texas Taliban, YallQuaida, whoever.
Was hoping for something new but could only take so much.

There are of course other sides to this. The ranchers say they had the land before the BLM arrived on the scene. This particular BLM is not to be confused with another BLM movement which has been in the news on a daily basis for over a year and whose hashtag derived name is now claimed by yet another organisation which liked the name so thought they'd have it American poiltics can be somewhat ummm opaque?

So the ranchers have said that they have a claim to the land because they occupied the land prior to the BLM taking over. This is an interesting point of view. The Paiute indians, the original inhabitants, find this argument of great interest and are watching developments closely.

From a map I saw last night it would seem most of the state is under BLM control so the stakes are high. Might be simpler all round if the FBI were to take over and handle the matter with their usual expertise - or rather lack thereof. As at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

One lesson learned from the earlier efforts is that what we read in the press may ultimately prove to be very different to what actually takes place.

[oldrider]

I watched five minutes worth because I already understood that was the point of view of the protestors: Vanilla Isis, Texas Teliban, YallQuaida, whoever.
Was hoping for something new but could only take so much.

There are of course other sides to this. The ranchers say they had the land before the BLM arrived on the scene. This particular BLM is not to be confused with another BLM movement which has been in the news on a daily basis for over a year and whose hashtag derived name is now claimed by yet another organisation which liked the name so thought they'd have it American poiltics can be somewhat ummm opaque?

So the ranchers have said that they have a claim to the land because they occupied the land prior to the BLM taking over. This is an interesting point of view. The Paiute indians, the original inhabitants, find this argument of great interest and are watching developments closely.

From a map I saw last night it would seem most of the state is under BLM control so the stakes are high. Might be simpler all round if the FBI were to take over and handle the matter with their usual expertise - or rather lack thereof. As at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

One lesson learned from the earlier efforts is that what we read in the press may ultimately prove to be very different to what actually takes place.

Might be the beginning of the end of the "United" States - there are some who would like nothing more than them and their "constitution" obliterated! :corn:

[Woodman]

Firmly in the category of OPP (other peoples problem). Not even in NZ ffs.:weird:

[Voltaire]

So far, the gift shop revolutionaries remain a ragtag bunch of no more than 25 ranchers, veterans and assorted anti-government cranks and conspiracy theorists. Among them is one Jon Ritzheimer, a known anti-Muslim agitator who once posted a YouTube clip of himself shooting a Koran, and who runs a website selling "F**k Islam" T-shirts. Another protester, who identified himself to The Independent only as "Fluffy Unicorn", said he had served three tours overseas as a US Marine.

I can see the key words that the OP was drawn to.:facepalm:

[awayatc]

Was suffering through boring drivel waiting for amazing things to appear out of sheets of plain old paper.....

But the old bird was a bit disappointing....
the Japernese are way better at it....

spell it slightly different to


or did I get the title wrong?

[yokel]

I watched five minutes worth because I already understood that was the point of view of the protestors: Vanilla Isis, Texas Taliban, YallQuaida, whoever.
Was hoping for something new but could only take so much.

There are of course other sides to this. The ranchers say they had the land before the BLM arrived on the scene. This particular BLM is not to be confused with another BLM movement which has been in the news on a daily basis for over a year and whose hashtag derived name is now claimed by yet another organisation which liked the name so thought they'd have it American poiltics can be somewhat ummm opaque?

So the ranchers have said that they have a claim to the land because they occupied the land prior to the BLM taking over. This is an interesting point of view. The Paiute indians, the original inhabitants, find this argument of great interest and are watching developments closely.

From a map I saw last night it would seem most of the state is under BLM control so the stakes are high. Might be simpler all round if the FBI were to take over and handle the matter with their usual expertise - or rather lack thereof. As at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

One lesson learned from the earlier efforts is that what we read in the press may ultimately prove to be very different to what actually takes place.

So you "understood" them to be Vanilla Isis??
How many potential "Vanilla Isis" types are there in the USA?

The interesting thing is these ranchers where originally convicted with the governments fancy anti terrorism laws. https://youtu.be/m652fhbvUoM

That Megyn Kelly woman sure is a cunt.

[pritch]

So you "understood" them to be Vanilla Isis??
How many potential "Vanilla Isis" types are there in the USA?

The interesting thing is these ranchers where originally convicted with the governments fancy anti terrorism laws. https://youtu.be/m652fhbvUoM

That Megyn Kelly woman sure is a cunt.

An acceptable name for these dudes is proving difficult, they call themselves protestors. Others describe them as terrorists. My favourite is YallQuiada but I'd have prefered it as the more correct Y'allQuaida, but sadly the apostrophe is becoming a lost art. Ask Hitcher.

How many there are is anybody's guess. Estimates of how many are at the current event vary between 15 and 150.

The US Justice Department does play very loose with the law. Just take the Kim Dot Com farce as an example much closer to home.

I used to think Megyn Kelly was gorgeous. Once she was talking to Bill O'Reilly when he referred to her as Miss Kelly. She snapped back "MRS! MRS Kelly!

The thought occurred that she'd been getting more than her share of strange mail. :yes:

[oldrider]

Firmly in the category of OPP (other peoples problem). Not even in NZ ffs.:weird:

True enough but once the TPPA agreement is signed it may well be our business. http://www.bna.com/tpp-countries-sign-n57982065797

There was a small report in the ODT this morning otherwise keeping a low profile!

Meanwhile the flag is so important it warrants a referendum and lots of attention and expense (read diversion)

Will the TPPA get the same exposure? - or will it just be sneaked (by comparison) in under the radar? :corn:

Edit: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1601/S00023/ministers-to-sign-tppa-in-nz-on-4-february-2016.htm

[Berries]

True enough but once the TPPA agreement is signed it may well be our business.
That's a bit of a jump isn't it? Best I get my banjo out now then.

Not having seen the news for a fortnight and there being nothing obvious on the BBC I still have no idea what is happening in Oregon and whether I need to give a shit. Doesn't sound like it.

[pritch]

I still have no idea what is happening in Oregon and whether I need to give a shit. Doesn't sound like it.

Nah, you're fine. It's the retired old buggers like John and I who have all day to watch or listen to news from various sources and wonder at the strange things happening in the world. Or maybe go for a ride on the bike. Or wander up the pub for lunch. Or... :whistle:

[tri boy]

47seconds for me.
What did Al Bundy do to her.:confused:

[oldrider]

When the earth moves there are numerous pre-shocks and after-shocks - are Oregon actions part of the action/reaction to current world changes? :scratch:

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[Katman]

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/01/07/activists-or-terrorists-how-media-control-and-dictate-the-narrative-in-burns-oregon/

[BMWST?]

i watched for a long time,did she make come to the point?

[husaberg]

So you think you know what's going on in Oregon?

In case you think it's just a bunch of red-neck slack jaws on a moonshine bender you should probably watch this.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/T424sWq1SkE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I always wondered where she went after just shoot me,
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vCY7I3kAg2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Katman]

just shoot me


With pleasure.

[oldrider]

OK I watched your little video clip and then I watched this one that came up at the end of it too.

Interesting viewing I thought! :shifty: Where do you get this stuff? :scratch:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JYTyluv4Gws" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[husaberg]

Interesting viewing I thought! :shifty: Where do I sign up for the KKK? :scratch:
The world wide web, there are plenty of sites, So you really don't need to restrict yourself to midget porn, bestiality and the KKK.
http://www.streetbonersandtvcarnage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/klan6.jpg
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/K0wMhvC8muc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

You do try hard husa but try smarter is what you really should focus on - remember the fly on the window story? :whistle:

[oldrider]

Between a Rock and a Hard Place: The Oregon Standoff. Part I.

By Scott Bennett

The metal flavor of blood and the hard truth of silence was all the dusty denim-clad rancher had won as the double courtroom doors closed behind the exiting attorneys fondling his family’s case.

January, 8th, 2016

He was alone, and felt it deeply, like a far echo sounding in an immensely vast cavern. He tilted his Stetson to the ground, looked at the burgundy courtroom carpet, and thought…and thought…and thought some more.

How could it have come to this? Did he miss something? What just happened? After all, his family had worn the military uniform for a hundred years and pridefully accented their walls and desks with the old pictures, medals, framed citations, and faded ribbons, along with the music of heroic, quiet, and laughing stories of men acting like boys during war, which always changed rooms and lives.

He recounted the basic facts, biting his lip and squinting at floor as he strained his thoughts slowly, and re-ordered in his mind every step taken — every action, every word said, every judgment hammered.

Let’s see, for the last ten years, he thought to himself, somehow he had been — although he didn’t know it — connected to bearded Middle Eastern, Arabic chanting terrorists firing machine guns in shopping malls and bombing marathons; then grimacing at the thought’s odor and shaking his head in bemusement. Oh please, come on, of course it was insane. Surely no one in their right mind could think a cowboy boot wearing, beer drinking, rodeo-howling rancher was a danger to children, his people, his town, his country…but yet this was precisely what the Department of Justice lawyer had so many times inferred in his loud, angry syllables and resentful tone as he repeated the terrorism statute definition used to box-in the rancher. So it had been said, and since words make law, they mean something, regardless.

It would have been surreal and laughable if it wasn’t so repugnantly real and deadly serious. After all, men with guns and blue windbreakers were soon coming to force him back into a jail cell, then turn around and push his wife and their history of existence off the farm; and perhaps eventually erase him from life as his years faded. That is, unless he did something. But what was he to do now?

How do you get back on the roller coaster after being told to exit to the right, other than refusing to get out of your seat? That’s it, he thought, he just wouldn’t move and let them come to him, so he could explain it all over again. This time, he would tell them what they missed the first time…yes, that must have been the reason for their screw up and slandering of them. But then again, he knew human lust and desire for power and laziness — the opiates of politics — and when combined with government authority, it became a deadly and paralyzing tonic.

He shivered again, and felt the anger begin to rise like it never had before. Suddenly his jaw clenched as he heard a familiar drill sergeant somewhere in his mind calling out numbers in his head and speaking the words:

One!…Lighting strikes land, starts fire.

Two!…Boy follows dad’s orders and ignites a counter-action fire

to contain the burn, and save the feed and animals from starving.

Three!…Bureau of Land Management staff file complaint, alleging a crime.

Four!…No crime found, charges dropped by District Attorney. Five years go by.

Five!…Somehow, Department of Justice thinks they know better, contact him by letter, then file another court action—this time accusing him of terrorism activity in relation to the fire, and calling it arson instead of a controlled burn. Strange, and wrong. But…

Six!…Goes to court, judge keeps out key facts, attorney falls apart—or intentionally throws him under the buss—and somehow the jury get find him and his son guilty. Cold shock, gaping mouth amazement…but there has to be some kind of fix or appeal… surely.

Seven!…Goes into sentencing, lies told, confusion, hustled off to jail.

Eight!…Now another letter demanding a second bite of the apple and more time added unto father and son’s sentence?

Something deep in his instincts founded in the primordial passion to defend wife and children began to growl, and the thought cleared…Now the real agenda: theft of property and destruction of life. Isn’t this war? And in war, aren’t you either alive and victorious or dead and defeated?

He would not bow down without a fight.

His blood ran in the creeks and fed the grass and cows and had nourished the land and lives there for over one hundred years….this was beyond life, beyond body, beyond government, this was his time to stand, and show his ancestors what they created in him. For his God and for everything right and true and good, he had to. To fail to, was not just un-American, it was inhuman.

He would get a few hits in, that’s for sure, if for nothing else than for his ancestors who first settled the ranch and planted their blood in the communality. Time would tell.

Most likely these, or something like them, were the thoughts in the minds of the Oregon Rancher father-and-son duo now surrounded by friends and strangers wearing guns and camouflage, and grimly nodding their commitment to him through low country drawls about God and country.

If anything encapsulates the unfolding Oregon drama, this might.

No doubt these may have been some of the thoughts, images, memories, and emotions that rushed and pounded through the minds of the rancher and his son in Oregon as they pondered their fates, and that of their family.

There are three things to consider in order to understand this: the full dramatic history of this event, the laws and interests involved, and the possible future scenarios being prepared. After all, there are global implications, not just American, should an American civil war percolate.

The Temper of Democracy

Over the past couple of days, a seemingly small mole hill has suddenly transformed into a violently erupting volcano, to the terrifying surprise of almost every shallow journalist, Constitutional lawyer, and plastic smiled politician in Washington DC. In short, it has instantly and irrevocably changed America’s constitutional perspective, by forcing Americans to see fellow citizens — branded and prosecuted and imprisoned as terrorists — in a a kind of “perfect storm” of ignorance, government abuse, and lawlessness—and I use the term lawlessness multidimensionally.

It is easy to be blown away on the strong howling winds of terrorist fears and intimidated silent by the thunderous cachophy of tyrannical patriotism. But we are not kites, we are men. And as a military man myself, I am by training and temperament inclined to instinctively not back down or retreat from a rising challenge, but instead meet it head on, either to harmonize and diplomatically engage, or to conquer and destroy. In the gladiatorial arena of willpower, either the citizen is master over the government, or the slave—there is no other role.

If Americans have a right to engage in civil disobedience, then government has an obligation to endure that civil disobedience. That’s how the process of “making known and seeking the redress of grievances” works in a Democratic Republic, and it is essential for government agencies and actors to be willingly compliant with this. And if they refuse to be compliant, this means by definition they are tyrants—which warrants civil war or death. One or the other.

To fully understand and resolve the Oregon stand-off situation, requires that we analyze the history and dynamics of the problem, the competing parties, and the friction between their competing interests. The parameters of the discussion must be justice and law, with human life, liberty, happiness, being the justification for the discussion.

In America, we pride ourselves on the notion of “law and order”, but admittedly our own past examples of engaging them diplomatically have ended badly: the Whiskey Rebellion, the Civil War, the Branch Davidians at Waco Texas — are just a few of the motley crew of memories in our Republic’s vaults.

Now we see and hear at most every corner journalists scrambling to brand the Bundy occupiers and protesters as right wing, gun wielding, hillbilly, backwoodsmen, bark eating, whiskey still running terrorists. The facts show otherwise, but nevertheless the caustic language and propaganda indicates a larger menace: the agenda of a police state crushing all forms of dissent in the United States. Make no mistake about it. This is a political tug of war, with one winner, and the law itself is the rope. The only thing keeping the protesters alive is the incompetence of the Obama Administration, and the conviction of the patriots standing in the shadows.

[jasonu]

http://www.ktvz.com/news/full-text-of-fbi-statement-six-arrests-shots-fired-one-killed-one-injured/37655210
http://www.ktvz.com/news/oregon-protest-leader-ammon-bundy-is-arrested/37654910

[carbonhed]

1.24. Jesus Christ Katman.

[Katman]

1.24. Jesus Christ Katman.

I don't get the connection but I forgive you anyway.

[husaberg]

I don't get the connection but I forgive you anyway.

He was referring to what was in one of the videos you posted.
it has a sign in the background saying how many idiots would lap up this conspiracy crap at 1.24.

[jasonu]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/authorities-seal-off-oregon-refuge-after-leaders-of-occupation-arrested-1-killed-in-gunfire/ar-BBoKxtX?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=EIE9HP

[mashman]

Have a conspiracy.

Clinton Foundation took massive payoffs, promised Hammond Ranch and other publicly owned lands to Russians along with one-fifth of our uranium ore (https://www.intellihub.com/clinton-foundation-payoffs-promised-hammond-ranch-other-publically-owned-lands-russia/)

[jasonu]

http://www.ktvz.com/news/ammon-bundy-repeats-call-for-refuge-occupiers-to-leave/37694112

Que the armchair law enforcement experts...

[seattle smitty]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/