BREXIT - some assistance required [Archive]

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 11:27

OK Guys, so I get a vote on whether the UK should stay as part of the EU.

I can see nothing good at all from the EU, that the UK wouldn't still have after leaving, plus a shit loads of cash to spend on health and education.
The UKs second language is now Polish. Many of my old mates from the UK have lost their jobs to people from poor european countries (not just Poles) whom work in the UK to send back their wages, family allowance, and tax credits to Poland; where their wives and families live the relative high life at the expense of the UK tax payer. Yes, they can even claim for their kids not living in the UK. They can also get free healthcare for their families. They are economic migrants and drain the UK's local economy, but they part of Europe, so if you believe in the socialist ideals, then this should be seen as a good thing?

Plus, in my opinion, the EU is run by idiot no brain politicians. "Oh what a suprise, the bleeding obvious to everyone but us, idiotic morons, has just happened". The Schengen zone is a great example of this. There is a permanent 100,000 person queue in France awaiting ways and methods to get into the UK for the benefits gravy-train. These are not europeans, but they are only there because the EU is run by stupid morons.

Frankly, if I was voting in Greece, I'd have told the Germans to sing for their 60 billion euros, but they didn't get a chance and even the guy whom was elected to say 'screw you' to the Germans, changed sides.

I guess that, if the UK was to leave, some Estonian peasant farmers will be replacing the UKs much needed skills and expertise. I don't think so.

Someone persuade me that I am seeing "such minor teething problems, in need of adjustment" all wrong. tell me why the UK being part of the "Union of Socialist European Republics" is a good thing?

mashman

29th May 2016, 12:14

OK Guys, so I get a vote on whether the UK should stay as part of the EU.

I can see nothing good at all from the EU, that the UK wouldn't still have after leaving, plus a shit loads of cash to spend on health and education.
The UKs second language is now Polish. Many of my old mates from the UK have lost their jobs to people from poor european countries (not just Poles) whom work in the UK to send back their wages, family allowance, and tax credits to Poland; where their wives and families live the relative high life at the expense of the UK tax payer. Yes, they can even claim for their kids not living in the UK. They can also get free healthcare for their families. They are economic migrants and drain the UK's local economy, but they part of Europe, so if you believe in the socialist ideals, then this should be seen as a good thing?

Plus, in my opinion, the EU is run by idiot no brain politicians. "Oh what a suprise, the bleeding obvious to everyone but us, idiotic morons, has just happened". The Schengen zone is a great example of this. There is a permanent 100,000 person queue in France awaiting ways and methods to get into the UK for the benefits gravy-train. These are not europeans, but they are only there because the EU is run by stupid morons.

Frankly, if I was voting in Greece, I'd have told the Germans to sing for their 60 billion euros, but they didn't get a chance and even the guy whom was elected to say 'screw you' to the Germans, changed sides.

I guess that, if the UK was to leave, some Estomian peasant farmers will be replacing the UKs much needed skills and expertise. I don't think so.

Someone persuade me that I am seeing "such minor teething problems, in need of adjustment" all wrong. tell me why the UK being part of the "Union of Socialist European Republics" is a good thing?

Remove money from the equation and the problem never would have existed. After all, why else do they migrate. Interesting way to get money to european communities that, for some reason, must be starved of it?

Greece did tell the troika to fuck off. They were threatened with having their banks shut down. There's an interesting interview of Varoufakis with Noam Chomsky, although Chomsky barely says a thing, but Varoufakis explains what he was up against in no uncertain terms.

You did ask. But yes, remove money from the equation and all sorts of things simply aren't problems anymore.

Voltaire

29th May 2016, 12:28

If England did leave they could bring back hedgehog flavoured crisps and go back to using feet, inches and pounds.

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 12:31

Remove money from the equation and the problem never would have existed. After all, why else do they migrate. Interesting way to get money to european communities that, for some reason, must be starved of it?

Greece did tell the troika to fuck off. They were threatened with having their banks shut down. There's an interesting interview of Varoufakis with Noam Chomsky, although Chomsky barely says a thing, but Varoufakis explains what he was up against in no uncertain terms.

You did ask. But yes, remove money from the equation and all sorts of things simply aren't problems anymore.

Thanks for this. You have really just confirmed what I thought. The ridiculous actions of the EU have been serving to remove all money from the equation. They are not quite there yet, however the work in progress continues. Human instink, which has no compatibility with political idealism, will foil this masterplan.

Would the Greeks have been worse off, with their banks being closed and having no money at all? They would still have industrial production and holidays to sell. Their allegance could easily have gone elswhere (Russia/China).

As I don't agree with removing money from the equation, I should vote BREXIT.

Oscar

29th May 2016, 12:47

Remove money from the equation and the problem never would have existed. After all, why else do they migrate. Interesting way to get money to european communities that, for some reason, must be starved of it?

Greece did tell the troika to fuck off. They were threatened with having their banks shut down. There's an interesting interview of Varoufakis with Noam Chomsky, although Chomsky barely says a thing, but Varoufakis explains what he was up against in no uncertain terms.

You did ask. But yes, remove money from the equation and all sorts of things simply aren't problems anymore.

I'm no fan of the EU, but that's a unique view which ignores the fact that the Greeks lied through their teeth to get into the EU.
As for telling anyone to fuck off, first of all they borrowed ridiculous amounts of Euro to prop up their corrupt system (yes, even more corrupt than the rest of the EU), and now they're bleating about repying the money.

oldrider

29th May 2016, 13:10

If you care so much - why did you ever leave England? :scratch: (simply a question no judgement)

Grumph

29th May 2016, 13:23

Put it this way...If you leave the EU and Trump gets in as prez in the US, you'll be left shivering in the cold between two hostile neighbours.

Not my call thank god, maybe the Queen could develop a liking for Chinese food ?

nerrrd

29th May 2016, 13:35

Plus, in my opinion, the EU is run by idiot no brain politicians.

I think you'll find all countries are run by these, I'm guessing the UK is too. I also think the main reason most of us think politicians are so useless is because running things is actually really, really difficult, and despite what they say to the media, they only have a very tenuous grip on things like the economy at the best of times - after all, if there was one politician who was actually, demonstrably 100% right all the time about what to do, we'd all be voting for him/her, yet most democratic governments barely get over 50%.

Frankly, if I was voting in Greece, I'd have told the Germans to sing for their 60 billion euros, but they didn't get a chance and even the guy whom was elected to say 'screw you' to the Germans, changed sides.

As I don't agree with removing money from the equation, I should vote BREXIT.

Slight contradiction?

Wasn't the idea of the EU to avoid any future European conflicts (WW3, for instance) by making sure economic benefits were shared around? If so that noble aim will by now have been inevitably corrupted, because it's being run by people.

The bigger the organisation, the worse it gets once ideologies, prejudices, greed and self interest take their toll. So if you want the UK to be run exclusively by it own idiot no brain politicians, vote BREXIT; it'll be better for some, worse for others, just like always.

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 13:44

I'm no fan of the EU, but that's a unique view which ignores the fact that the Greeks lied through their teeth to get into the EU.
As for telling anyone to fuck off, first of all they borrowed ridiculous amounts of Euro to prop up their corrupt system (yes, even more corrupt than the rest of the EU), and now they're bleating about repying the money.

Thanks Oscar for another one in support of BREXIT.

The politically ideal system, lacking in any understanding as to how the world works, is exactly why a country like Greece was able to exploit it. How else will these fools learn such elementary lessons? It's not the Greek's fault that Europe is such an easy push over. Gullibility and naivety are not legitimate reasons to complain over getting screwed over.

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 13:48

If you care so much - why did you ever leave England? :scratch: (simply a question no judgement)

Easy answer. What was starting to happen and is now happening, full on, was really obvious and I wanted no part of it.

My fear now is that NZ is dumbing itself down for some of the same.

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 13:59

I think you'll find all countries are run by these, I'm guessing the UK is too. I also think the main reason most of us think politicians are so useless is because running things is actually really, really difficult, and despite what they say to the media, they only have a very tenuous grip on things like the economy at the best of times - after all, if there was one politician who was actually, demonstrably 100% right all the time about what to do, we'd all be voting for him/her, yet most democratic governments barely get over 50%.

Slight contradiction?

Wasn't the idea of the EU to avoid any future European conflicts (WW3, for instance) by making sure economic benefits were shared around? If so that noble aim will by now have been inevitably corrupted, because it's being run by people.

The bigger the organisation, the worse it gets once ideologies, prejudices, greed and self interest take their toll. So if you want the UK to be run exclusively by it own idiot no brain politicians, vote BREXIT; it'll be better for some, worse for others, just like always.

Agree about "The bigger the organisation...." - that's why I was not ever in favour of the EU, other than it being a free trade zone. I would agree that some of these decisions are really tough. But somehow considering that any one decision, aftecting such a diverse land mass, can be better than local decisions is nonsence.

"So if you want the UK to be run exclusively by it own idiot no brain politicians, vote BREXIT; it'll be better for some, worse for others, just like always" - AGREE, thanks for your input.

So does anyone think WW3 is currently further away than it was before the EU and Schengen zone?

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 14:03

If England did leave they could bring back hedgehog flavoured crisps and go back to using feet, inches and pounds.

Borris Johnson & Donald Trump might be blood relatives:

http://home.bt.com/images/who-has-the-craziest-hair-donald-trump-or-boris-johnson-136398725531003901-150617134029.jpg

Voltaire

29th May 2016, 14:05

I was in the UK in 2002/04 just before Poland joined the EU. I worked in Cork Ireland for 2 years in refrigeration and Air Con, did a tour around Europe in 2004 and then went back to London to look at working there for a while. Hammersmith was like Warsaw, Polish job agencies everywhere, no doubt ripping them off like the used to to the Paddies and to a lesser extent Kiwis and Aussies.
I got a job with a US Chiller company but after a few weeks did the numbers and flew back to NZ. Just too expensive to live there with kids and 1 and a bit incomes.

In Ireland your could combine your Wife's tax and your own and it was grand soo.... paid very little tax for a year. You also got 250 Euros a month for having two kids and it was not means tested...saved up 15 K Euros in 18 months.
The Poles and Romanians really likes this as the Irish Social Welfare was a soft touch.
Gypsies and ( Irish) 'Travellers'....:crazy:

Blackbird

29th May 2016, 15:04

I understand the nervousness about exiting the EU because of all the uncertainties that go with it. However, it could be a golden opportunity for the UK to make a mark on the world again in its own right. When Britain joined the EU, both NZ and Australia were effectively told to go f--k themselves in terms of trade with UK.

However, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and both countries were forced to develop trade and cultural ties with what might be called non-traditional trading partners and both have done pretty well out of it. I guess that a side effect is the loosening of the traditional bonds with the UK but that's no big deal as it would eventually happen anyway.

Business largely doesn't care about borders if there's a dollar to be made so an exit might be a whole lot less scary than first imagined and if managed properly, sovereignty stays strong and you control your own destiny again. Stay in and you leave your destiny to people outside the country who really don't care a whole lot about everyday life in the UK.

I left the UK in 1975 when Harold Wilson was screwing the place over and have never once regretted the move. I've only returned a handful of times to catch up with family and noticed how generally unhappy people were compared with NZ. Maybe BREXIT would help in that respect too :innocent:

mashman

29th May 2016, 15:12

Thanks for this. You have really just confirmed what I thought. The ridiculous actions of the EU have been serving to remove all money from the equation. They are not quite there yet, however the work in progress continues. Human instink, which has no compatibility with political idealism, will foil this masterplan.

Would the Greeks have been worse off, with their banks being closed and having no money at all? They would still have industrial production and holidays to sell. Their allegance could easily have gone elswhere (Russia/China).

As I don't agree with removing money from the equation, I should vote BREXIT.

Nah, the EU wants as many excuses as possible to get money into circulation. Otherwise it isn't an influence in people's life any more and you can't threaten people with the likes of closing banks in order to get your pound of flesh.

They never got to find out for some reason. Closing down the banks in Greece would likely have led to a global banking crisis the likes of which we can't imagine. Interesting to consider how people will buy food with money they can't get from closed banks, or pay for electricity when they can't get money from their bank etc... Worse off perhaps?

Then vote for what you like, coz it will change nothing. Money rules. End of.

mashman

29th May 2016, 15:14

mashman

29th May 2016, 15:18

Easy answer. What was starting to happen and is now happening, full on, was really obvious and I wanted no part of it.

My fear now is that NZ is dumbing itself down for some of the same.

+1................

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 15:25

Nah, the EU wants as many excuses as possible to get money into circulation. Otherwise it isn't an influence in people's life any more and you can't threaten people with the likes of closing banks in order to get your pound of flesh.

They never got to find out for some reason. Closing down the banks in Greece would likely have led to a global banking crisis the likes of which we can't imagine. Interesting to consider how people will buy food with money they can't get from closed banks, or pay for electricity when they can't get money from their bank etc... Worse off perhaps?

Then vote for what you like, coz it will change nothing. Money rules. End of.

"Money rules. End of." It's a fact of life, however not of political ideology.

The study I read showed that if Greece had told the EU so scew itself, "thanks but no thanks and by the way, this is how we get you back for WWII" - Yes Europe would have struggled not to collapse, however Greece would had had around six months of real hardship. Some would not have made it, but the country would have been considerably stronger and certainly a lot more prosperous. Aparently springtime would have been the very best time of the year to start the hardship and many were already getting their allotments ready to start growing food for personal consumption.

Come on: someone give me a good reason to vote in favour of the UK staying in the EU?

<iframe width="850" height="485" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/I5QwKEwo4Bc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheDemonLord

29th May 2016, 15:41

Come on: someone give me a good reason to vote in favour of the UK staying in the EU?

Why? if you want to vote in favour of staying, but don't have a reason to do so, you are still free to vote.

Akzle

29th May 2016, 15:44

"Money rules. End of." It's a fact of life, however not of political ideology. >

not for a large percentage of the population. Some humans even.

george formby

29th May 2016, 15:46

I watched this t'other night.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UTMxfAkxfQ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Obviously a fair bit of spin going on.

The Guardian has just started a series of articles discussing the whole issue. Today's was about the 1.3 million Brits living in the EU but not the UK. What kind of entitlement will they have to health care, education, taxes, pensions etc if the country votes to leave? I shall be reading as much as poss, at the mo I'm to distant to form an opinion.

I loved my last few visits up over, touring Europe with open borders. Wow. But I can't think of any other benefits...........

oldrider

29th May 2016, 16:04

Easy answer. What was starting to happen and is now happening, full on, was really obvious and I wanted no part of it.

My fear now is that NZ is dumbing itself down for some of the same.

So did you come here to become a new Zealand citizen or just somewhere to go in order to escape the situation in Britain?

Will you be looking to leave New Zealand soon to avoid the perceived same situation developing here - where will you go to this time?

For what it is worth if I had your vote on EU I would vote Exit but that's just gut feeling I haven't thought deeply of it because I don't get a vote!

EU and NATO have lost their way and with the mass migration they have lost their individual identities and none of them will ever be powerful individual nations again.

Well - never strong enough (collectively or otherwise) to challenge any NWO (etc) that they are critical of or feel threatened by! :bash:

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 16:10

mashman

29th May 2016, 16:18

"Money rules. End of." It's a fact of life, however not of political ideology.

The study I read showed that if Greece had told the EU so scew itself, "thanks but no thanks and by the way, this is how we get you back for WWII" - Yes Europe would have struggled not to collapse, however Greece would had had around six months of real hardship. Some would not have made it, but the country would have been considerably stronger and certainly a lot more prosperous. Aparently springtime would have been the very best time of the year to start the hardship and many were already getting their allotments ready to start growing food for personal consumption.

I think Varoufakis would disagree. What would he know eh? (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130970476#post1130970476). Everyone around the world would have felt it. We had a couple of bubbles in 2007 and look at the mess it made.

Happy voting ;)

Edit: It starts at 6 mins ish and lasts about 50 minutes if memory serves. The rest is questions.

george formby

29th May 2016, 17:12

Apart from Brexit I'm also trying to fathom the TTIP. It looks like this agreement will get rammed through by Brussels regardless, deja vu. Sooo, if the UK votes to leave the EU will they still sign the TTIP? Surely an impediment to revitalizing the UK economy which is the main reason for Brexit in the first place. Or will it allow the UK to carry on trading on equal terms with the EU.... and what then happens with EU subsidies which will be against the nature of TTIP.

If the UK does vote out, what happens to the EU workers in the UK now? If they get kicked out it will leave a shit load of jobs to be filled quick sharp, a recipe for recession if ever I saw one.

My head is beginning to spin.

jonbuoy

29th May 2016, 18:48

I would say that the single very best thing to come out of Europe was the cost and quality of food.

Like the UK used to be, Kiwis get screwed over the price of food by the food cartels. You can't go elsewhere, so screw you. Once in Europe, the UK supermarkets started selling other non-food stuffs, as they weren't allowed to overly profit on foods anymore. Plus the old UK foods that were very poor, like pies, sausages, pasties etc, were outlwaed and they had to be made with more meat etc; like the frogs & krauts do it. The media also took a lot of the bad stuff out of UKers diets.

I was so happy when I saw that Kiwis still eat pies. Lots of them too :)

So I guess I am swaying slightly. The price of food became so much cheaper, when the UK joind the EU. Maybe NZ should join? If AUS can join in the Eurovision Song Contest, why the hell can't NZ become a part of the EU? :lol:

I would say Auckland is just as expensive as a lot of places in Europe for day to day living throw in Auckland house prices vs wages and it's more expensive.

There will always be insular attitudes from people living on Islands. Some of the EU rules are a bit bonkers but often they are taken out of context to rile up the small minded masses. England won't leave but they have to make people think they have a say in it.

jonbuoy

29th May 2016, 18:51

If you care so much - why did you ever leave England? :scratch: (simply a question no judgement)

It will have an effect on people who were born in NZ but have claimed British passports and live/work in the Eurozone.

Swoop

29th May 2016, 19:14

Easy answer. What was starting to happen and is now happening, full on, was really obvious and I wanted no part of it.
Fuck Brussels. Power-crazed eurocrats who desire to live how they wish... and are going to drag every other country down to their level of intelligence. Also refer: the green, lunatic fringe.
Fuck Merkel. An east german who has a massive chip on her shoulder. "The world must pay" for the harm it has caused the socialist bitch...
Fuck Greece. Couldn't put up a decent system that could support retirement at 55 and a military that was grossly oversized and had only one enemy. And Ouzo.

My fear now is that NZ is dumbing itself down for some of the same.
Exhibit a: katman.
Exhibit b: yokel.
Case closed.

YellowDog

29th May 2016, 21:51

I would say Auckland is just as expensive as a lot of places in Europe for day to day living throw in Auckland house prices vs wages and it's more expensive.

There will always be insular attitudes from people living on Islands. Some of the EU rules are a bit bonkers but often they are taken out of context to rile up the small minded masses. England won't leave but they have to make people think they have a say in it.

As a commercial capital and also a harbour city, Auckland is very very cheap. Realy, it is!

Your $1m Central Auckland apartment would cost $3-5m in most commercial capitals. The North Shore is also waaaay to cheap.

James Deuce

30th May 2016, 06:27

All of the Greeks lied?
Pretty much, yes. At one point income tax default ran at about 90% and the highest number of Porsche Cayenne's per head of population in the world was Athens. Nation of lying tax dodgers with poor taste in cars. You can't tell me they don't deserve punishment.

James Deuce

30th May 2016, 06:28

As a commercial capital and also a harbour city, Auckland is very very cheap. Realy, it is!

Your $1m Central Auckland apartment would cost $3-5m in most commercial capitals. The North Shore is also waaaay to cheap.

No it isn't. It has exceeded the capacity of the local populace to pay for it. The measure of affordability in housing is not how cheap it is for Johnny Foreigner to buy up investments.

Berries

30th May 2016, 07:27

Beer should only ever come in real pints and cheese should be ordered by the half pound.

End of discussion really.

jonbuoy

30th May 2016, 07:49

As a commercial capital and also a harbour city, Auckland is very very cheap. Realy, it is!

Your $1m Central Auckland apartment would cost $3-5m in most commercial capitals. The North Shore is also waaaay to cheap.

The employment opportunities and wages aren't really comparable. It's a nice enough place but just a big town - not really a comparable to other commercial capitals.

Ocean1

30th May 2016, 08:05

No it isn't. It has exceeded the capacity of the local populace to pay for it. The measure of affordability in housing is not how cheap it is for Johnny Foreigner to buy up investments.

And yet 97% of house buyers are local populace.

The whole xenophobic "Asians are paying too much for our houses" thing is just a tad embarrassing.

Voltaire

30th May 2016, 08:07

The employment opportunities and wages aren't really comparable. It's a nice enough place but just a big town - not really a comparable to other commercial capitals.

It used to be a nice town until someone had the great idea of cross leasing and packing more into the isthmus and did bugger all about

transport, and threw the doors open to all and sundry.

Wages here are pretty low, especially so if your a she'll be right type, who does not like to get off ones arse.:laugh:

mashman

30th May 2016, 09:34

Pretty much, yes. At one point income tax default ran at about 90% and the highest number of Porsche Cayenne's per head of population in the world was Athens. Nation of lying tax dodgers with poor taste in cars. You can't tell me they don't deserve punishment.

Yeah, I remember reading about the scams etc... Yup, bad taste in cars, but no, I don't agree with punish all of them as a solution... coz it fucks the country up even further and puts further generations in the position of paying for debt that they didn't produce. I'm funny that way. Sounds like a right lazy bastard approach to doing anything.

Ocean1

30th May 2016, 09:50

Yeah, I remember reading about the scams etc... Yup, bad taste in cars, but no, I don't agree with punish all of them as a solution... coz it fucks the country up even further and puts further generations in the position of paying for debt that they didn't produce. I'm funny that way. Sounds like a right lazy bastard approach to doing anything.

The right lazy bastards in this case are Greek.

It was Greeks that failed to pay the taxes their public spending required.

It was Greeks that lied about that in order to enter the EU

Greeks that lied about it in order to borrow money to fix the above.

Who the fuck should repay those farcically imprudent loans?

mashman

30th May 2016, 10:53

The right lazy bastards in this case are Greek.

It was Greeks that failed to pay the taxes their public spending required.

It was Greeks that lied about that in order to enter the EU

Greeks that lied about it in order to borrow money to fix the above.

Who the fuck should repay those farcically imprudent loans?

Ignorant fool. (http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/greeks-say-they-are-hardest-working-european-nation)

How does a system get to that state? Sounds like it was every man for himself in a free market ;).

It was some Greeks almost 20 years ago that lied.

It's how Europe works. Richer countries subsidise poorer countries so that they can stay rich. How else do you get ROI when investing in a country that likely isn't going to be able to afford your ROI? It's actually how the entire world works, but you seem comfortable with Europe.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa. Go watch the clip that YellowDog posted. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178751-BREXIT-some-assistance-required?p=1130974263#post1130974263)

YellowDog

30th May 2016, 11:12

No it isn't. It has exceeded the capacity of the local populace to pay for it. The measure of affordability in housing is not how cheap it is for Johnny Foreigner to buy up investments.

It's how the rest of the world works. Old money + Johnny Foreigner + Johnny Highearner are the only ones able to afford the good stuff.

Joe Public doesn't get a look in and never will again. Get used to it, because it is the way of the world :mad:

James Deuce

30th May 2016, 11:19

And yet 97% of house buyers are local populace.

The whole xenophobic "Asians are paying too much for our houses" thing is just a tad embarrassing.

That's not what I'm saying and you know it ;)

Akzle

30th May 2016, 13:28

Get used to it, because it is the way of the world :mad:

-or-

vote akzle, sharpen your pitchforks and stock up on beer and bullets and we can all go a-jew-huntin...

Swoop

30th May 2016, 13:47

It used to be a nice town until someone had the great idea of cross leasing and packing more into the isthmus and did bugger all about transport, and threw the doors open to all and sundry.
Sadly the "Remove the boundaries of Auckland!" call is still forgetting about the traffic infrastructure required.
Keep the boundaries to the city and require higher buildings in the center.

The whole xenophobic "Asians are paying too much for our houses" thing is just a tad embarrassing.
Having been to a few house auctions around Auckland, there is a lot of truth to the statement.
Whether or not they hold NZ Citizenship is another matter entirely.

Voltaire

30th May 2016, 14:22

And yet 97% of house buyers are local populace.

The whole xenophobic "Asians are paying too much for our houses" thing is just a tad embarrassing.

Must be a Wellington thing as all the pollies say the same thing.:lol:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/200450824-001-mature-businessman-wearing-blinkers-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=9znmBpt4pQ1PFzobN49EvGkizCCb%2FcwDuJlXLWBBdD3Fzo muNmASc5qFcT7OtptM

Grumph

30th May 2016, 14:25

Having been to a few house auctions around Auckland, there is a lot of truth to the statement.
Whether or not they hold NZ Citizenship is another matter entirely.

And generally irrelevant as my observation in the ChCh market is that they're paying with family money from offshore...
We have a high asian student population here - a very high number of whom have bought houses.
Whether or not they stay here post graduation, the property is a family investment.

I'd have thought Mr Ocean would have preferred to have seen the investment in property discouraged in favour of financing local businesses...

Ocean1

30th May 2016, 14:34

Ignorant fool. (http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/greeks-say-they-are-hardest-working-european-nation)

How does a system get to that state? Sounds like it was every man for himself in a free market ;).

It was some Greeks almost 20 years ago that lied.

It's how Europe works. Richer countries subsidise poorer countries so that they can stay rich. How else do you get ROI when investing in a country that likely isn't going to be able to afford your ROI? It's actually how the entire world works, but you seem comfortable with Europe.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa. Go watch the clip that YellowDog posted. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178751-BREXIT-some-assistance-required?p=1130974263#post1130974263)

Meh. Clickbait for losers.

Simple. People borrow money and don't pay it back.

It is how the whole world works: Live within your means. The only people bitching about that are those who don't bother.

Fuckem.

Ocean1

30th May 2016, 14:46

That's not what I'm saying and you know it ;)

Aye, remains true that although average house prices are double what they once were so are the houses.

Any price increases over and above that are driven by just one thing: Cashed up boomers who thought they'd saved enough to manage retirement, only to find that traditional investments nowadays generate 2%, which won't even cover inflation. Do you really think they'd pay for a rental investment earning 3.5 - 4% (and all it's headaches) if that wasn't the case?

If you really want to fix the housing "crisis" make 90sq ft bungalows to standards first home buyers can afford, on land sold for what it costs to supply and the whole problem goes away.

Ocean1

30th May 2016, 14:52

Having been to a few house auctions around Auckland, there is a lot of truth to the statement.
Whether or not they hold NZ Citizenship is another matter entirely.

Must be a Wellington thing as all the pollies say the same thing.:lol:

Auckland is 24% Asian. What percentage turning up to open homes are they allowed?

Ocean1

30th May 2016, 14:56

And generally irrelevant as my observation in the ChCh market is that they're paying with family money from offshore...
We have a high asian student population here - a very high number of whom have bought houses.
Whether or not they stay here post graduation, the property is a family investment.

I'd have thought Mr Ocean would have preferred to have seen the investment in property discouraged in favour of financing local businesses...

If local business were a better investment then most of that cash would be there in a shot.

And anyone that's buying anything based on it's recent price movements alone was asleep in history class and deserves all they get.

Akzle

30th May 2016, 14:57

If you really want to fix the housing "crisis" make 90sq ft bungalows to standards first home buyers can afford, on land sold for what it costs to supply and the whole problem goes away.

my idea's better

mashman

30th May 2016, 15:56

The only people bitching about that are those who don't bother.

Fuckem.

Wrong.

No.

Jin

31st May 2016, 08:00

The Greeks didn't borrow the money it was politicians who did it. They don't pay taxes because it's just more funding for a corrupt socialist system.

Voltaire

31st May 2016, 08:15

YellowDog

31st May 2016, 08:50

Comparison of Tax Evasion Rates
as percent of GDP
2012 estimate[14] country % of GDP
Estonia 28.6
Greece 24.3
Latvia 21.6
Italy 21.6
Belgium 17.1
Germany 13.5

So much for Honest Fritz.

I looked up NZ and its about 4.8%.

Clearly the Tradies here are not charging enough for cashies.

It's not just tradies!

In 2012, I had to conduct a business transaction with a government department in Cyprus (you know: thanks for your cash, now here's some worthless shares in return), in order to get a copy of a document.

The amount I had to pay was around EU20. "No, we don't take Paypal, we don't accept credit cards, you can't have our banking details: CASH ONLY."

"But sending cash through the post is not legal anymore." I protested "and a courier would charge around NZ$120"

"Either you want a copy of the document, or you don't? - Have a nice day .............."

Those figures might be wrong for some countries :yes:

James Deuce

31st May 2016, 10:42

Aye, remains true that although average house prices are double what they once were so are the houses.

Any price increases over and above that are driven by just one thing: Cashed up boomers who thought they'd saved enough to manage retirement, only to find that traditional investments nowadays generate 2%, which won't even cover inflation. Do you really think they'd pay for a rental investment earning 3.5 - 4% (and all it's headaches) if that wasn't the case?

If you really want to fix the housing "crisis" make 90sq ft bungalows to standards first home buyers can afford, on land sold for what it costs to supply and the whole problem goes away.
The underlying issue is that Kiwis have been taught, expensively, that the only investments that net a reliable return are major banks and property. Everything else is just a good way to be wiped out overnight, usually at the whim of Japanese housewives or a thieving finance director.

I'm sure you mean 90m2. 90sqft is a bathroom. The building course at Weltec is doing just that. They seem to be shipping dozens of them. Don't know where they go though.

YellowDog

31st May 2016, 12:04

Voltaire

31st May 2016, 12:19

Are houses really more expensive?

$500,000 loan at 11.5% interest (as I paid in 2007) = $57,500 p.a. in interest.
$1,100,000 loan at 5% interest (which I now pay) = $55,000 p.a. in interest.

$500k in 2007 didn't get you much of an Auckland property.
$1.1m today gets you something a lot nicer.

No need to pay off any capital, inflation will pay that for you.

Just saying :eek5:

Shush...your giving the Banking sectors secrets away. ;)

Jin

31st May 2016, 12:51

YellowDog

31st May 2016, 12:51

Shush...your giving the Banking sectors secrets away. ;)

Oh shit yes. I pay 5% on the old amount and not on $1.1m. I ain't that stupid :wacko:

Unlike rent, my house is now so much cheaper to own.

James Deuce

31st May 2016, 13:55

In a free market prices are never the problem. They simply provide and transmit information. Anyone who thinks the problem with the housing market is one of price is quite simply ignorant. However they are in good company with the likes of politicians, treasury, rbnz morons etc.
Only applies if you already own property. The bar to entry has been set too high. I think people who can't see that are morons, quite frankly.

YellowDog

31st May 2016, 16:12

Only applies if you already own property. The bar to entry has been set too high. I think people who can't see that are morons, quite frankly.

Needing a 20% deposit is the problem. Most of my friends purchased with less than a 5% deposit.

There you go.... problem solved. It's the over cautious RBNZ that's the problem :mad:

jonbuoy

31st May 2016, 18:58

Are houses really more expensive?

$500,000 loan at 11.5% interest (as I paid in 2007) = $57,500 p.a. in interest.
$1,100,000 loan at 5% interest (which I now pay) = $55,000 p.a. in interest.

$500k in 2007 didn't get you much of an Auckland property.
$1.1m today gets you something a lot nicer.

No need to pay off any capital, inflation will pay that for you.

Just saying :eek5:

All good until the house you paid 1.1mil for drops to 500k. Then you have a massive toxic debt crisis. And if the bank only has 5% of your money as a deposit it's cheaper to throw the keys at them and walk away.

Akzle

31st May 2016, 19:23

All good until the house you paid 1.1mil for drops to 500k. Then you have a massive toxic debt crisis. And if the bank only has 5% of your money as a deposit it's cheaper to throw the keys at them and walk away.

i dont always define value, but when i do, i make sure i do it in an arbitrary unit controlled by the imf.

YellowDog

31st May 2016, 19:34

All good until the house you paid 1.1mil for drops to 500k. Then you have a massive toxic debt crisis. And if the bank only has 5% of your money as a deposit it's cheaper to throw the keys at them and walk away.

Of course you can throw the keys back at the lender, but it will have the same effect as shoving them up your own arse; because you still owe the money back that you borrowed :lol:

jonbuoy

31st May 2016, 19:37

Of course you can throw the keys back at the lender, but it will have the same effect as shoving them up your own arse; because you still owe the money back that you borrowed :lol:

True but if you have put a 20-40% deposit down and you only manage to sell the house for half what it's worth your not so out of pocket or in such a bad situation. Better to hold on if you can make the payments - which are also a lot lower. Here they are now asking for 20-25% minimum deposit.

Ocean1

31st May 2016, 20:43

The underlying issue is that Kiwis have been taught, expensively, that the only investments that net a reliable return are major banks and property. Everything else is just a good way to be wiped out overnight, usually at the whim of Japanese housewives or a thieving finance director.

I'm sure you mean 90m2. 90sqft is a bathroom. The building course at Weltec is doing just that. They seem to be shipping dozens of them. Don't know where they go though.

I had high hopes of a P2P roll out, it should represent a good deal for borrowers and investors alike, given it removes a complete ticket-punching layer. But it's looking like just another bunch of snake oil purveyors.

Aye, 900sqft is what I meant. The average size of my parents generation's first home. They paid 4-5 yrs income for one, which is what they would cost today, if you were allowed to build one.

yokel

31st May 2016, 21:44

True but if you have put a 20-40% deposit down and you only manage to sell the house for half what it's worth your not so out of pocket or in such a bad situation. Better to hold on if you can make the payments - which are also a lot lower. Here they are now asking for 20-25% minimum deposit.

To put a whole lot of capital into propriety that didn't originally come from the propriety market right now eg kiwi saver or other savings would not be very nice to say good bye to, I know from 2008.

A lot of BS money/capital gains is about to be flushed down the shitter.

Anyway some cunt about BREXIT

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/T-_yUXZbKTk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

yokel

31st May 2016, 22:03

10000 EU bureaucrats get paid more than the GB PM. https://youtu.be/UTMxfAkxfQ0?t=11m10s

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UTMxfAkxfQ0?list=PL2ICm3OOlHNn4NpZnDDi7tZlFagGid72 K" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Berries

31st May 2016, 23:24

And don't forget toffee bonbons, it's a quarter pound not 200 fucking grams.

mashman

1st June 2016, 07:18

YellowDog

1st June 2016, 07:35

This is the current future of every single country on the planet. It is our future, because it is their past and present.

For sale: Greek islands, hotels and historic sites (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/30/for-sale-greek-islands-hotels-historic-sites-stergios-pitsiorlas?CMP=share_btn_tw)

Oh thanks Mashers for the great link. I just bought me a couple of Greek Islands and a 200 room hotel. The Greek government will pay to fill the hotel with Syrian refugees, so I guess I can now retire to my Island, without the hotel full of poor people :clap:

mashman

1st June 2016, 08:55

Oh thanks Mashers for the great link. I just bought me a couple of Greek Islands and a 200 room hotel. The Greek government will pay to fill the hotel with Syrian refugees, so I guess I can now retire to my Island, without the hotel full of poor people :clap:

From what I've read, you might be able to get some form of tax break. Did you just describe the prison system and actually buy a prison :laugh:

YellowDog

1st June 2016, 10:24

From what I've read, you might be able to get some form of tax break. Did you just describe the prison system and actually buy a prison :laugh:

CRIKEY MASHERS - WHAT A GREAT IDEA.

I'M GOING TO BUILD ME A HUGE EXTENSION TO THAT HOTEL ON MY ISLAND (WITH EU GRANTS) AND IMPRISON - OOPS I MEAN - PROVIDE VERY BASIC ACCOMODATION FOR THOUSANDS OF THE POOR UNFORTUNATE F#CKERS :banana:

Oscar

1st June 2016, 11:14

CRIKEY MASHERS - WHAT A GREAT IDEA.

I'M GOING TO BUILD ME A HUGE EXTENSION TO THAT HOTEL ON MY ISLAND (WITH EU GRANTS) AND IMPRISON - OOPS I MEAN - PROVIDE VERY BASIC ACCOMODATION FOR THOUSANDS OF THE POOR UNFORTUNATE F#CKERS :banana:

Welcome to the dark side.
We have cake.

Oscar

1st June 2016, 12:22

This is the current future of every single country on the planet. It is our future, because it is their past and present.

For sale: Greek islands, hotels and historic sites (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/30/for-sale-greek-islands-hotels-historic-sites-stergios-pitsiorlas?CMP=share_btn_tw)

Bullshit.
This is the result of endemic corruption in Greece.

Whereas this is the case in other countries, it is not the case in NZ.

Akzle

1st June 2016, 12:30

Welcome to the dark side.
We have cake.

the cake is a lie

Oscar

1st June 2016, 13:31

the cake is a lie

We get poor people to bake it for us.
I don't like it though.
The tears they cry for their unfulfilled lives whilst baking gives it a salty flavour.

mashman

1st June 2016, 15:12

Bullshit.
This is the result of endemic corruption in Greece.

Whereas this is the case in other countries, it is not the case in NZ.

Bullshit.
You're an idiot.

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... future dickhead, future.

Oscar

1st June 2016, 15:25

Bullshit.
You're an idiot.

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... future dickhead, future.

Future?
How would you know what's gonna happen in the future?

And what does it matter?
Whatever happens, guys like you will find someone else, some conspiracy or act of God to explain your complete and utter bewilderment about what is happening around you.

Meantime, have some cake.

Voltaire

1st June 2016, 15:34

Future?
How would you know what's gonna happen in the future?

And what does it matter?
Whatever happens, guys like you will find someone else, some conspiracy or act of God to explain your complete and utter bewilderment about what is happening around you.

Meantime, have some cake.

The all seeing cake.....
http://65.media.tumblr.com/e4ef3b756cd58aab34205c35c996eee4/tumblr_npgdplvdTi1rbbamto1_1280.png

also comes in handy to carry bank notes.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/photogalleries/lost-symbol-dan-brown-masonic-symbols-pictures/images/primary/090915-02-dollar-bill_big.jpg

mashman

1st June 2016, 18:53

Future?
How would you know what's gonna happen in the future?

And what does it matter?
Whatever happens, guys like you will find someone else, some conspiracy or act of God to explain your complete and utter bewilderment about what is happening around you.

Meantime, have some cake.

Pretty easy really. Look at what's happened in ones lifetime, figure out why, then extrapolate. Same as individuals/business/govt projects their future based on past trends etc... Duh.

What does it matter indeed. Go seepys... s'ok.
Whatever happens guys like me will continuously laugh at guys like you. Haven't you got a plate in your dome to polish or sommink?

Thanks for the cake.

Swoop

1st June 2016, 18:54

Bullshit.
You're an idiot.

So, you are saying there is no corruption in Greece then?

mashman

1st June 2016, 18:55

The all seeing cake.....

Bizarrely entertaining cartoon that.

Oscar

1st June 2016, 18:56

So, you are saying there is no corruption in Greece then?

What on earth makes you think that he knows what he's saying?

Oscar

1st June 2016, 18:58

Pretty easy really. Look at what's happened in ones lifetime, figure out why, then extrapolate. Same as individuals/business/govt projects their future based on past trends etc... Duh.

What does it matter indeed. Go seepys... s'ok.
Whatever happens guys like me will continuously laugh at guys like you. Haven't you got a plate in your dome to polish or sommink?

Thanks for the cake.

So what other future events do you foresee, then?
Is there a day in the distant future where you make sense?
A day when you don't post pretentious, pompous twattery?

These are things to strive for...

mashman

1st June 2016, 18:58

So, you are saying there is no corruption in Greece then?

:killingme absolutely. None whatsoever.

Berries

1st June 2016, 19:00

The tears they cry for their unfulfilled lives whilst baking gives it a salty flavour.
It ain't tears.

mashman

1st June 2016, 19:02

So what other future events do you foresee, then?
Is there a day in the distant future where you make sense?
A day when you don't post pretentious, pompous twattery?

These are things to strive for...

More of the same thing as I mentioned in the original post that you seem to have taken umbrage against and entirely missed the point of.
Not in yours I fear.
I can't help how you perceive those who are better than you. However, if it's of any use to your overly frail ego, I don't look down on you, I merely pity you.

You're so behind the times man.

Swoop

1st June 2016, 19:05

What on earth makes you think that he knows what he's saying?
I'm merely asking a simple question and giving Mashy the chance to provide reasoned discussion and logical discourse on this matter.

:killingme absolutely. None whatsoever.
So, you are unable to intelligently provide "something" which repudiates the global position which the Greeks have put themselves into? Lying to get into the "club" which is the EU and now expecting the EU to bail them out of the crisis.
The Greeks should be left to foreclose and declare bankruptcy, due to retarded leftist lunatic ideology.
Thank fuck you have nothing to do with financial markets.

mashman

1st June 2016, 19:11

So, you are unable to intelligently provide "something" which repudiates the global position which the Greeks have put themselves into? Lying to get into the "club" which is the EU and now expecting the EU to bail them out of the crisis.

My apologies... I didn't think you were being serious.

You reckon they didn't have help getting in? I've found documentation that speaks of such things. The lie was committed bt a handful of people and it took a financial global crisis to expose what was going on. They ain't the only country "not paying their way".

The Greeks should be left to foreclose and declare bankruptcy, due to retarded leftist lunatic ideology.

They weren't allowed to :killingme... you don't get it do you.

Thank fuck you have nothing to do with financial markets.

You should get behind me in the staying out of the financial markets line.

Swoop

1st June 2016, 19:13

My apologies...
No wonder you get on so well with suckmycockman.

mashman

1st June 2016, 19:16

No wonder you get on so well with suckmycockman.

:yawn: ooooo that landing has to hurt john.

Swoop

1st June 2016, 19:19

:yawn: ooooo that landing has to hurt john.

? I'm sure that what you wrote, has somehow made sense to you.

Ocean1

1st June 2016, 19:38

What on earth makes you think that he knows what he's saying?

? I'm sure that what you wrote, has somehow made sense to you.

What the fuck? When did he ever give you cause to make such an utterly unfounded leap of stupidity?

You're not related are you?

mashman

1st June 2016, 20:30

? I'm sure that what you wrote, has somehow made sense to you.

Of course it did.

Oscar

1st June 2016, 20:49

More of the same thing as I mentioned in the original post that you seem to have taken umbrage against and entirely missed the point of.
Not in yours I fear.
I can't help how you perceive those who are better than you. However, if it's of any use to your overly frail ego, I don't look down on you, I merely pity you.

You're so behind the times man.

Taken umbrage?

Over what? Your posts are so formulaic and predictable that it's hard o be anything but slightly perplexed.

In other news, in an unexpected and genuinely laugh out loud moment, Axzle repped me for being "ignorant".
And after I offered cake....

mashman

1st June 2016, 20:59

Taken umbrage?

Over what? Your posts are so formulaic and predictable that it's hard o be anything but slightly perplexed.

In other news, in an unexpected and genuinely laugh out loud moment, Axzle repped me for being "ignorant".
And after I offered cake....

Well something put a bee in your bonnet.

What can I say, the guy has brains.

TheDemonLord

1st June 2016, 21:23

You reckon they didn't have help getting in? I've found documentation that speaks of such things. The lie was committed bt a handful of people and it took a financial global crisis to expose what was going on. They ain't the only country "not paying their way".

So - who is at fault?

The loan shark who writes a loan that they know the debtor can't pay?

Or the debtor who applies for a loan they know they can't afford?

Akzle

1st June 2016, 21:30

So - who is at fault?

The loan shark who writes a loan that they know the debtor can't pay?

Or the debtor who applies for a loan they know they can't afford?

or, the dweeb(s) who do(es)n't comprehend that a "loan" isn't all they're buying into....

mashman

1st June 2016, 22:29

So - who is at fault?

The loan shark who writes a loan that they know the debtor can't pay?

Or the debtor who applies for a loan they know they can't afford?

:facepalm: always with this, the debtor takes on a debt that they know they can't afford. It's so unbelievably naive it's pathetic. Not all debt that is, was once unaffordable... and in the cases where someone can't service the debt from the outset, then yeah, the creditor gets all they ask for. System's fucked bro... and that you vote for it, it's your own fault. Fun eh.

TheDemonLord

2nd June 2016, 00:15

:facepalm: always with this, the debtor takes on a debt that they know they can't afford. It's so unbelievably naive it's pathetic. Not all debt that is, was once unaffordable... and in the cases where someone can't service the debt from the outset, then yeah, the creditor gets all they ask for. System's fucked bro... and that you vote for it, it's your own fault. Fun eh.

I find your part answer interesting.

There are a few bits you raised however, one where the old adage of not counting ones chickens before the eggs have hatched springs to mind.

And then the blame placed solely on the creditor - do you have such a low opinion of everyone else or is it that those in the financial system are so superior that they should know better than the rest of us? Because I am certain that you have expressed your disdain for them numerous times.

As a final thought - if the system is, as you say 'Fucked bro' - why has it endured when other systems have failed? You mentioned earlier in the thread abour extrapolation based on your personal experience - what about our favorite point of contention: extrapolation based on history?

Akzle

2nd June 2016, 06:48

As a final thought - if the system is, as you say 'Fucked bro' - why has it endured when other systems have failed?

80 years is not "endured" by any measure of history. (excepting maybe todays social/media landscape) Hell, there's cunts older than that.
The system is possibly at it's apex ( i like to hope so) and on the way down!

mashman

2nd June 2016, 07:53

I find your part answer interesting.

There are a few bits you raised however, one where the old adage of not counting ones chickens before the eggs have hatched springs to mind.

And then the blame placed solely on the creditor - do you have such a low opinion of everyone else or is it that those in the financial system are so superior that they should know better than the rest of us? Because I am certain that you have expressed your disdain for them numerous times.

As a final thought - if the system is, as you say 'Fucked bro' - why has it endured when other systems have failed? You mentioned earlier in the thread abour extrapolation based on your personal experience - what about our favorite point of contention: extrapolation based on history?

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

I didn't place the blame solely on the creditor... and if you were capable of understanding your surroundings, you'd realise that we're constantly fixing the system because it is constantly broken.

What about it? Come on... I have a feeling that you're about to say something even more stupid than you already are.

Voltaire

2nd June 2016, 08:11

Oscar

2nd June 2016, 08:51

Well something put a bee in your bonnet.

What can I say, the guy has brains.

My bonnet is bee free, I'm pleased to say.

I'd just like here some more about your claim to be able to predict the future.

As for Akzle's brains, he does a fair job of hiding their existence.

Oscar

2nd June 2016, 09:00

article here about how the US handled the 74 oil crisis.

Following the US backing Israel ( Oldrider will like this bit) OPEC created " the oil crisis" and the US did a deal with Saudi to swap oil, weapons...the usual for Treasury Bonds....or bits

of paper saying " we owe you money"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-untold-story-behind-saudi-arabia-s-41-year-us-debt-secret-a7059041.html

With the release of docs implying Saudi involvement in 911, the Saudis say they might like to cash up as they are a bit strapped for cash at the mo.

Very interesting.
It explains why the US has never done anything much about Wahhabi backed terrorism (including 911), and also why the were quick to defend Saudi in Gulf War 1.
It also makes the "Israeli runs the US Govt" crowd look even dumber (eh, Oldie?).

Katman

2nd June 2016, 09:02

It also makes the "Israeli runs the US Govt" crowd look even dumber.

Then you're not thinking very hard.

Oscar

2nd June 2016, 09:21

Then you're not thinking very hard.

To be fair, deep thinking isn't really required in a debate with conspiracy morons such as yourself.
Perhaps once I see evidence of some (any) intellectual rigour being applied on your behalf, I may engage further.

Voltaire

2nd June 2016, 09:25

Katman

2nd June 2016, 09:26

<img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoBH86DTwDA/hqdefault.jpg"/>

Saudi Arabia will be expected to hand over that portion of land one day.

I strongly suspect that America will be used to ensure it does.

mashman

2nd June 2016, 09:35

My bonnet is bee free, I'm pleased to say.

I'd just like here some more about your claim to be able to predict the future.

As for Akzle's brains, he does a fair job of hiding their existence.

Oh.

Phrase the question appropriately then.

Not really.

Oscar

2nd June 2016, 09:36

according to this link I'm blindly parroting, Canada supplies 3 times as much oil to the US than Saudi?

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

Probably why the US can afford to prod them about 911.

Obviously Saudi oil is easier to produce but Canada sure is handy and stable.

I thought the US was working toward self sufficiency in oil (by 2030 according to BP), what with fracking and such.
Maybe that's why they're getting lippy with the House of Saud all of a sudden?

Oscar

2nd June 2016, 09:37

Oh.

Phrase the question appropriately then.

Not really.

Have some cake.
There's cocaine in it...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oBJ_PwpoIvs/hqdefault.jpg

Oh, I see by your posts that you've already had some.

mashman

2nd June 2016, 09:42

Have some cake.
There's cocaine in it...

Oh, I see by your posts that you've already had some.

Aha.......

Voltaire

2nd June 2016, 10:23

I thought the US was working toward self sufficiency in oil (by 2030 according to BP), what with fracking and such.
Maybe that's why they're getting lippy with the House of Saud all of a sudden?

They have halved the operational rigs due to the low price of 30- 50 a barrel.

It is however easier to restart a land based rig than the sea based ones.

To keep on topic, would the North Sea rigs go to Scotland in the event of the UK leaving the EU and a breakup of the UK.

Oscar

2nd June 2016, 10:24

TheDemonLord

2nd June 2016, 14:30

80 years is not "endured" by any measure of history. (excepting maybe todays social/media landscape) Hell, there's cunts older than that.
The system is possibly at it's apex ( i like to hope so) and on the way down!

Monetary systems are more than 80 years old (thousands of years in some parts of the world) Interest is also several thousand years old and Fractional reserve has its origins somewhere in the 1600s (With the Swiss using the first system)

There is legislation for fractional systems in the 1800s in the UK.

TheDemonLord

2nd June 2016, 14:37

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

I didn't place the blame solely on the creditor... and if you were capable of understanding your surroundings, you'd realise that we're constantly fixing the system because it is constantly broken.

So by that Logic, we should stop using Computers - after all, my entire job is fixing systems that are constantly Breaking...

What about it? Come on... I have a feeling that you're about to say something even more stupid than you already are.

Oh the usual - I'll point to numerous points in history and you will summarily ignore them because it directly contradicts your beliefs.

Normally with something so stupid as:

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

Which is the noise a Donkey makes when it can't make a logical rebuttal.

Swoop

2nd June 2016, 16:20

They have halved the operational rigs due to the low price of 30- 50 a barrel.

It is however easier to restart a land based rig than the sea based ones.
The low oil prices have been driven from the sauds attempting to break the US fracking and oil sands industries. Another failure.

mashman

2nd June 2016, 16:24

So by that Logic, we should stop using Computers - after all, my entire job is fixing systems that are constantly Breaking...

Oh the usual - I'll point to numerous points in history and you will summarily ignore them because it directly contradicts your beliefs.

Normally with something so stupid as:

Which is the noise a Donkey makes when it can't make a logical rebuttal.

Not sure what logic you're using, but it's dumb.

Katman

2nd June 2016, 16:32

Not sure what logic you're using, but it's dumb.

It's Autie logic.

TheDemonLord

2nd June 2016, 16:39

Not sure what logic you're using, but it's dumb.

Well, it is your logic.....

So I guess that does mean that both your and Katman's statements are correct...... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Akzle

2nd June 2016, 17:01

So by that Logic, we should stop using Computers - after all, my entire job is fixing systems that are constantly Breaking...

git r linux bro

TheDemonLord

2nd June 2016, 17:04

git r linux bro

Funny story - As a result of some job changes, I'm expanding into *nix (centos, RHEL, Debian and Ubuntu)

jonbuoy

2nd June 2016, 18:14

They have halved the operational rigs due to the low price of 30- 50 a barrel.

It is however easier to restart a land based rig than the sea based ones.

To keep on topic, would the North Sea rigs go to Scotland in the event of the UK leaving the EU and a breakup of the UK.

Wouldn't think so - with the price of oil as low as it is you would think the sweaties´would be breathing a sigh of relief at not getting independence. I don´t think you can run a country on kilts, bad jumpers, shortbread and haggis sales.

Akzle

2nd June 2016, 19:49

Funny story - As a result of some job changes, I'm expanding into *nix (centos, RHEL, Debian and Ubuntu)

rhel > centos

debian > buntu

dont read that syntactically. although. kinda is.
also, punch every cunt that runs ubuntu.

also, welcome to uptime.

mashman

2nd June 2016, 20:27

Well, it is your logic.....

So I guess that does mean that both your and Katman's statements are correct...... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

No it isn't.

:yawn:

mashman

12th June 2016, 12:53

Not that I'm that into InfoWars, but this poses some very interesting questions about the Brexit and UBI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yBUjCPn3Cs

YellowDog

12th June 2016, 16:18

Not that I'm that into InfoWars, but this poses some very interesting questions about the Brexit and UBI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yBUjCPn3Cs

This is good, however is also complete lies and fabrication.

The laws and rules surrounding BREXIT, are not as thhe Krauts portray.

I wanted Greece to default on their loans and leave the EU also. They would struggle, but be EU90 billion better off.

george formby

12th June 2016, 17:12

YellowDog

12th June 2016, 18:23

I've been doing a fair bit of reading on the whole Brexit saga and decided that long term it's better to stay.

The most promoted reason for leaving is immigration, but it's a soft target. The leave brigade are banging on about losing jobs to economic migrants but I bet they still enjoy watching Auf Wiedersehn Pet. Economic migration is cyclical, people from poorer countries go where the money is. They are not necessarily permanent fixtures.

Apparently EU migrants in the UK account for 1 in 89 citizens, this has fluctuated a lot since the 70's. So if you apply that to NZ, by walking into a bar with 100 people in it, how many patrons would be on a working holiday visa and how many Kiwis?

Claims that migrants are costing the British tax payer for welfare and health care look unfounded, too. 1 in 49 people sat at the doctors surgery are migrants, it's a similar figure at the dole office. Migrants contribute significantly more than they take.

Figures of UK costs to Brussels are dwarfed by the money the EU puts into the UK.

The value of sterling is plummeting because recent poll's show a favoring for the leave campaign. Prices are already increasing and nobody has voted yet.

Thinking back to the Miners strike, to what ends will the UK government go to bring the country out of the recession which leaving would cause? And how long would it take?

And the thing that really swayed me. The UK can leave the EU at any time but to get back in would take the support of 27 member states.

Also if the UK decides to leave their are absolutely no guarantees of trade agreements, military support other than NATO obligations, joint anti terrorism intelligence or migratory control from the other side of the channel.

Quick caveat, when I say migrants I mean economic migrants, not refugees. The UK is steadfastly minimising their entry.

Oh, did I see mention of Scotland's economy, oil rigs, haggis, etc? Scotland makes a lot more money from tourists than NZ does. For a similar population the wee country does better than we do without having to add oil into the equation. That would go tits up if the UK leaves.

By your own standards, that's a really poor post. Everything you have said is incorrect.

Lots have alrerady voted, including me, my son, & my wife.

Funny enough, I don't see immigration as the main issue.

From idealogical perspective, I am completely against the socialist federation thing; that is thhe EU. Brainless morons, many of whom have not ever done a days work in their lives, creating their own ideological policies they consider to be fair and eqitable, with zero understanding of what the impact will be on Northern, Southern, Eastern, & Western Europeans. It's tough enough getting is roughly right for one country (ask John Key).

Why don't we allow AUS to treat Australasia as a whole and include NZ in its urban and rural policies? The answer is quite easy to work out and then multiply the problem by 150 or whatever the population of Europe is.

The actual fact of the system is wholesale abuse and this is encouraged. Don't do what's right, or what's good, do what is easy and pays most. As far as your comment on migrants not being permanent fixtures, that's exactly the problem. They rape and piliage, sending every benefit they can, back home to their wives and kids. You are so far off track, with your comments, it's not funny. I do have friends whom now, after 30 odd years of regular income, now have to queue with the migrants to see if they will be working for half their price on the following week.

And as for Scotland, they were lucky they didn't vote for independance or they would now be completely screwed. Have you seen the price of oil and what they based their viable econoomy upon?

I would be happy to be persuaded otherwise, however all I see is scaremongering with illogical and irrational arguments that are meaningless and furthermore, not legal. The UK is protected under European law and also the Geneva convention. They are allowed to leave, without penalty or prejudice. Furthermore, the Europeans coulld not survive without continuing to trade with the UK. Imagine if the EU told Germany they could no longer trade with its biggest motor vehicle purchaser (the UK) - lol

The UK should leave, as there is close to zero benefit in staying. What's that shit about getting more out than it puts in? Absolute rubbish!

mashman

12th June 2016, 18:54

This is good, however is also complete lies and fabrication.

The laws and rules surrounding BREXIT, are not as thhe Krauts portray.

I wanted Greece to default on their loans and leave the EU also. They would struggle, but be EU90 billion better off.

You reckon you really know what's going on in regards to who holds power over whom and where? I don't, but I understand the nature of that beast. It's all protectionist bullshit ($) and as I've mentioned elsewhere, UBI is coming to finish the job. All is not what it seems and there are other games afoot that will decide the result.

I reckon Greece will have a UBI before the year is out on condition that it remains as a member of the EU. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the plan from the start. UBI is about as dangerous as things get and the economic conditions are ripe for the fucking. The same will be visited upon the UK when the EU sets terms for trade. The UK is fucked because it's an Island of 65 million peeps. How do you mitigate 65 million people going apeshit? Introduce a UBI... a cashless one.

Chicken little that all ya like, but the evidence is there.

Meh... I'll fight the fuckers til the end.

YellowDog

12th June 2016, 19:03

We'll fight them on the beaches ...........................

mashman

12th June 2016, 19:11

We'll fight them on the beaches ...........................

:laugh:... I'll remember to wear my budgie smugglers then.

george formby

12th June 2016, 19:24

We'll fight them on the beaches ...........................

I've just been watching a doco on him. Spooky.

We're obviously reading things different or differently. I totally respect that you stand up for your views.

Either way, we shall see. I hope the outcome is for the best.

Akzle

12th June 2016, 20:13

:laugh:... I'll remember to wear my budgie smugglers then.

that is a mental image i did not need

jonbuoy

12th June 2016, 20:22

The main reason people would vote out would be to regain control of the country and not be forced to adopt EU laws. No countries need common EU laws except for import export and travel. There is no reason why you can't have different laws in different countries and have control over those laws.

Voltaire

12th June 2016, 20:30

Who says the Germans don't have a sense of humour...:lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiH3L3XpJHY

jonbuoy

13th June 2016, 06:43

There are some crazy EU laws - France are banning any bike built before 2000 into Paris between 8am and 8pm with other major cities to follow, cars built before 1997 are also banned. Its looking like a number of other European countries will also follow - no exceptions granted for classic vehicles. If the French are OK with that - good for them but when those rules are forced on other countries people become agitated and dis-heartened. Can you imagine Australia trying to force new laws on NZ?

oldrider

13th June 2016, 07:33

Can you imagine Australia trying to force new laws on NZ?

Yes I can - but can you imagine NZ accepting that? - Once again unfortunately I can also imagine that! - for some of our people!!! :rolleyes:

awa355

13th June 2016, 07:51

There are some crazy EU laws - France are banning any bike built before 2000 into Paris between 8am and 8pm with other major cities to follow, cars built before 1997 are also banned. Can you imagine Australia trying to force new laws on NZ?

Yes I can - but can you imagine NZ accepting that? - Once again unfortunately I can also imagine that! - for some of our people!!! :rolleyes:

I think you will find that NZ has already had to change/adapt to many things to Aussie standards/rules, regarding marketing, trade, etc. It will get worse under the TPPA agreement.

As for the French restrictions on pre 2000 bikes, seems fairly pointless. My 250 would be banned (1999) but the same identical model has been produced up to 2015. No changes to the fuel exhaust design in that time at all. The VW debacle has shown that new laws can be manipulated (for a while).

yokel

18th June 2016, 16:49

So someone really wants the UK to stay in the EU.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IPlh1nPMZuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

YellowDog

18th June 2016, 21:21

So someone really wants the UK to stay in the EU.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IPlh1nPMZuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not anymore, the right wing extremist fellow murdered her :facepalm:

Hans

19th June 2016, 13:58

Not anymore, the right wing extremist fellow murdered her :facepalm:

What constitutes a "right wing extremist"?

YellowDog

19th June 2016, 15:57

What constitutes a "right wing extremist"?

:lol: So funny :lol:

Not that tought to work out. Perhaps his extreme behaviour might have being a clue?

You know like murdering someone in broad daylight, by shooting and stabbing them to death :o

When asked to state his name in court, his reply was "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain"

Hardly extreme at all :rofl:

Hans

19th June 2016, 17:13

:lol: So funny :lol:

Not that tought to work out. Perhaps his extreme behaviour might have being a clue?

You know like murdering someone in broad daylight, by shooting and stabbing them to death :o

When asked to state his name in court, his reply was "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain"

Hardly extreme at all :rofl:

Don't know that his actions were that extreme, in the light of what's happening in Europe. I guess I wanted to know why you think he was "right wing". I understand the "extremist" part of it, at least as you see it.

Virago

19th June 2016, 17:47

Don't know that his actions were that extreme, in the light of what's happening in Europe...

If you don't think that murdering someone is extreme, what is?

Hans

19th June 2016, 17:57

If you don't think that murdering someone is extreme, what is?

Context is important here. More extreme than trying to commit genocide on the original population of an entire continent?

Virago

19th June 2016, 18:09

Context is important here. More extreme than trying to commit genocide on the original population of an entire continent?

Fair enough. That makes it alright then.

Hans

19th June 2016, 18:14

Fair enough. That makes it alright then.

Who said *either* is alright? Am I missing something?

YellowDog

19th June 2016, 19:21

The right wing refers to his 'alledged' political affiliation, with a non-mainstream organisation, holding similar extreme views.

Most of such cnuts don't actually go around murdering people. I guess he took it all too literally. Not his fault really. Perhaps he thought it was what he was supposed to do :no:

Hans

19th June 2016, 19:26

yokel

19th June 2016, 20:04

Not anymore, the right wing extremist fellow murdered her :facepalm:

If he was getting off on Neo-Nazi stuff then he's more left wing than right.

Nazi =/= right wing.

Right wing is mascline/male, Left wing is feminine/female.

Anyway the leftist mainstream media has had an epic fail on this one.

One gunman is the lone nut type gunman the other? well they try their best to a line him to a certain right wing group.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OWpDu-w0xvA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sounds like this Thomas Mair chap has the making for an ideal "Patsy" https://youtu.be/OWpDu-w0xvA?t=10m9s

YellowDog

19th June 2016, 21:30

Which organisation is that?

Wasn't actually there. The slogan's he used imply he was not one person acting alone. My son said that a report he read mentioned the British National Party. May have just been speculation.

I'm not sure it is important, whether it is left wing or right wing, unless you are thinking of joining?

Hans

19th June 2016, 21:58

Wasn't actually there. The slogan's he used imply he was not one person acting alone. My son said that a report he read mentioned the British National Party. May have just been speculation.

I'm not sure it is important, whether it is left wing or right wing, unless you are thinking of joining?

All the early "reports" turned out to be false. I believe he said "Britain first" or something to that effect. How that implies anything other than being a patriot is beyond me.

YellowDog

20th June 2016, 00:02

All the early "reports" turned out to be false. I believe he said "Britain first" or something to that effect. How that implies anything other than being a patriot is beyond me.

Well unlike you, I wasn't there. I only saw the interview of a witness and the report on the Stuff.co.nz website link. I have already given the quote,, from the court extract, and you now post what you think he said.

Let's wait and see what the outcome of the investigation reveals. Unlike you, I'd be quite suprised if the report concluded that all seems normal.

Virago

20th June 2016, 09:18

Awesome. He's just a patriotic Briton who's done nothing extreme.

YellowDog

20th June 2016, 09:38

Sorry guys, my mistake.

I just found out that, prior to attending court, he actually had his name changed to "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain", so all he was actually doing in court was to correctly state his name.

It's all now perfectly normal and I apologise for my insinuation that he may have been promoting a political slogan.

Silly me :o

Oh.... BTW: Aljazeera.com reports(though they seem to be using his former name):

"The Southern Poverty Law Center, a US advocacy group, previously said that Mair, who had lived in Birstall for decades, was a "dedicated supporter" of National Alliance, once the primary neo-Nazi organisation in the US.

The Southern Poverty Law Center said Mair had spent over $620 on reading material from the National Alliance, which advocated the creation of an all-white homeland and the eradication of Jewish people." Hans can now join too :)

I guess they can let him go now :facepalm:

Voltaire

21st June 2016, 07:38

I'm picking a remain vote by a slim margin.

Having lived in London for a few years there is a fondness for a past that never was, and there are a lot of Sun 'readers' there.

I remember when the first Gulf War started and the Sun ran the usual Dumb and Dumber headlines the amount of blokes on the building site I

was on wanting to 'go show Saddam". Show them what I asked, how to put up light fittings, or spend the afternoon at the pub?

YellowDog

21st June 2016, 07:53

oldrider

21st June 2016, 09:21

I'm picking a remain vote by a slim margin.

That's my pick too - irrespective of what the people actually want or vote for! :shifty:

pritch

21st June 2016, 11:55

All the early "reports" turned out to be false. I believe he said "Britain first" or something to that effect. How that implies anything other than being a patriot is beyond me.

Your quote is not correct. His brother said he was not overtly political, never discussed politics, and his brother had no idea who he voted for. He is something other than a patriot though, he was a mental patient. And probably will be again.

People who sympathise with his views should perhaps consider that they themselves may be in need of professional help?

Ocean1

21st June 2016, 13:34

Your quote is not correct. His brother said he was not overtly political, never discussed politics, and his brother had no idea who he voted for. He is something other than a patriot though, he was a mental patient. And probably will be again.

People who sympathise with his views should perhaps consider that they themselves may be in need of professional help?

As should those that want similarly afflicted current mental patients free to wander around in public.

YellowDog

21st June 2016, 13:37

As should those that want similarly afflicted current mental patients free to wander around in public.

It's called "Care in the Community"

Possibly one of the most dangerous cost saving ideas any gorvernment has inflicted on its voters :yes:

Ocean1

21st June 2016, 15:15

It's called "Care in the Community"

Possibly one of the most dangerous cost saving ideas any gorvernment has inflicted on its voters :yes:

Given the difficulties inherent in institutionalising them I generally agree with it.

The dangerous ones are generally not let loose, but the media frenzy their families drum up gives you some idea of how much the aberrant behaviour is genetically conferred.

Voltaire

21st June 2016, 16:49

Winstone Peters showing that he has a good grasp of the situation....:wacko:

Britain leaving the European Union is the best chance to reverse immigration restrictions on New Zealanders, NZ First leader Winston Peters says.

Before Thursday's referendum, in which UK voters will decide whether to stay in the EU, Mr Peters attacked Prime Minister John Key for supporting a "remain" decision.

"'Leave' is our best chance to reverse the steady loss of access rights Kiwis have in the UK," Mr Peters said.

"'Leave' is our best bet to make the Commonwealth and the institutions we share strong and enduring."

What next, bring back 6 o'clock closing?, maybe sing God Save The Queen" at the motion picture house.

oldrider

21st June 2016, 17:00

OOps it's getting kinda catchy! http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/198970-2016-06-20-why-not-texit-texas-nationalists-look-to-the-brexit-vote.htm

yokel

21st June 2016, 18:09

My suspicions deepen about that result changing assassination. https://youtu.be/T-W4ZK1M9ac?t=6m40s

YellowDog

21st June 2016, 20:48

My suspicions deepen about that result changing assassination. https://youtu.be/T-W4ZK1M9ac?t=6m40s

Great speaker :laugh:

Voltaire

22nd June 2016, 18:00

Ol Dave has an video for everything.

Watch out for the hidden reptile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDiGONVJqcU

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/barney/images/7/7c/BarneyBabyBopBJSeason5PromoPhoto.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110723234416

YellowDog

23rd June 2016, 16:44

Let the people speak and everyone abide by and embrace the result :yes:

Voltaire

23rd June 2016, 17:28

Let the people speak and everyone abide by and embrace the result :yes:

Isn't you piccy the other way round, oldies hoping for the return of Hilda Ogden and Ford Pops, younger ones seeing opportunities.

Not a lot of love for Brussels Bureaucrats and trying to make Europe one happy country.

YellowDog

23rd June 2016, 20:00

Isn't you piccy the other way round, oldies hoping for the return of Hilda Ogden and Ford Pops, younger ones seeing opportunities.

Not a lot of love for Brussels Bureaucrats and trying to make Europe one happy country.

the young ones were stoned on 'P' and the old ones had the wrong glasses with them to work out which queue it was for Coro St.

yokel

23rd June 2016, 20:35

If the Brits have any balls left? they'll get out and take the economic hit like a man.

But I expect them to say like a bunch of pussies that can't handle being on their own.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JimKzThqpwo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Swoop

24th June 2016, 15:16

... mental patients free to wander around in public.

Or, otherwise referred to as "Members of Parliament out canvassing their electorate voters".

(kissing hands and shaking babies).

george formby

24th June 2016, 16:13

Gone. The UK has left the building.

Could be a good chance that the US gets a funny haircut in power and the UK, too. Scary.

carbonhed

24th June 2016, 16:56

High water mark for supra national government?

I'd love the French to have a vote on it.

The Eurocrats will be bricking it.

Stylo

24th June 2016, 17:20

Expect Cameron to resign very soon, I hear Boris has his hopes on the top job , that'll be interesting.

He does look a bit like Donald Trump but I won't go there.

Aaah .. I already have

Indiana_Jones

24th June 2016, 17:43

Time to get those car parts I want :niceone:

Berries

24th June 2016, 17:51

Time to get those car parts I want :niceone:
Fuck that, I want cod and chips.

ellipsis

24th June 2016, 18:26

Britannia should never have signed any deal, any time, ever, with historical adversaries...leaving us 1st world countries to spiral into the 3rd world status we have achieved...fuck the EEC...:wacko:

Stylo

24th June 2016, 18:29

And give Brussels a swift kick in the balls as you walk out of the room ....

Swoop

24th June 2016, 18:47

Superb!

Tell the East Kraut bitch to suck on that lovely Greek economy they are propping up.

*awaits whining scottish twats*...

george formby

24th June 2016, 19:26

Well, we shall see how the jingoists cope with a plummeting economy, unemployment rising and civil unrest. Could always sell more weapons to pay for the food farmers are no longer being subsidised to produce. Or deplete the pension funds to prop up the NHS and education. Oh, wait. How much of the pension fund investment is in Europe? :eek5: Quite a lot.

I think this is a dark day, the 5th biggest economy on the planet has just kicked it's biggest market out of the park. The biggest donator to the leave campaign is a leading BNP member. Lovely.
A prominent supporter of the leave campaign is Sir James Dyson, the super suck fulla. He moved production to Malaysia in 2002... Like he gives a shit about the working man. And on it goes. The country has been duped.

I'm saddened by this result. The wedge between rich and poor has just been hammered in big time. Welcome back to the 1970's but without unions.

Berries

24th June 2016, 19:44

I'm saddened by this result.
Not living there any more the result doesn't bother me but if I was there I would be celebrating with 0.56826 of a litre of beer.

A bit much to call just over half of the people who voted as jingoists though don't you think? We left, we should leave it to them to decide what to do.

Grumph

24th June 2016, 19:55

Not living there any more the result doesn't bother me but if I was there I would be celebrating with 0.56826 of a litre of beer.

A bit much to call just over half of the people who voted as jingoists though don't you think? We left, we should leave it to them to decide what to do.

You're probably right - but I forsee a pom immigration increase here after this. Just like the white flight from South Africa a few years back....

yokel

24th June 2016, 20:04

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 20:06

Interesting that the requirements to create a facebook account is to create an 8 character password with a mix of numbers, letters and characters. To define national policy with worldwide economic implications is the ability to scrawl an 'x' with a pencil. And they provide the pencil so you don't even need to remember to take one with you.

Kids are going to be fooked in geography lessons. "Sorry Jimmy, that's wrong. I know Australia came second in the Eurovision song contest, and I know the United Kingdom is the collection of places that always disagree and said it wasn't in Eurpoe, but that's the one that's in Europe. When you grow up then it will make a lot more sense" lied the teacher.

Now's a good time to be in NZ. Boris as UK PM, and Donald Trump as President of the USA. Add in Kim Jong Il and we're heading for a world run by halfwits with haircuts that could survive the inevitable nuclear fall out.

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 20:26

On the plus side then the country can get back to the gold old days before the silliness of the EU rules on straight bananas.

You know, the days where if you were lucky you could aspire to an Austin allegro that was built on one of the odd days that the Leyland factory wasn't on strike. And you didn't have to put up with one of these skilled, workaholic and cheap polish workmen. And you could enjoy a lovely meal in the British Home Stores Canteen of non-specific meat accompanied by non-identifiable vegetables stewed for 3 weeks and non of that 'foreign muck'.

yokel

24th June 2016, 20:26

What this result shows is that after all the MSM's biased bullshit, they no longer have control of the people.

george formby

24th June 2016, 20:27

Now's a good time to be in NZ. Boris as UK PM, and Donald Trump as President of the USA. Add in Kim Jong Il and we're heading for a world run by halfwits with haircuts that could survive the inevitable nuclear fall out.

Can I quote that. :laugh:

I had a bit of a rant, soz all. It's the first time in the first world that a country has made such a powerful decision without firing a bullet.

mada

24th June 2016, 20:28

Must be time for a new Scottish referendum.... how long do we give the Union?

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 20:28

You're probably right - but I forsee a pom immigration increase here after this. Just like the white flight from South Africa a few years back....

Agree. Close the borders, bring up the drawbridge. Bloody pommies comin' over 'ere stealing our jobs and houses.

(grateful I got my kiwi passport last month)

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 20:32

Must be time for a new Scottish referendum.... how long do we give the Union?

Not long. There's now a logical mandate for a new referendum north of the border on the basis of the Scottish vote to be in the EU. And that will probably also trigger a move from NI, although less certain. Wales will be feeling very vulnerable too given the amount of EU investment into South Wales that is now over.

AllanB

24th June 2016, 20:33

You're probably right - but I forsee a pom immigration increase here after this. Just like the white flight from South Africa a few years back....

Fuck NO - too many of the whinging Poms here now bitching about everything NZ but still waving the British flag. Weird how they do that - bla bla back home, bla bla too dear here, bla bla - however each one of them has a better life they could never afford in the motherland.

pritch

24th June 2016, 20:35

I can't help but think the leave vote was a big "Fuck you" to Cameron and Osborne, both of whom should soon be looking for alternative employment.

An interesting statistic was the voter turnout in social housing areas. Council housing estates usually have voter turnouts around 20 to 30%. This time some were over 80%.

There are alternatives to leaving outright, none of which would give Britain a vote in the European parliament though.

Even if they begin the Article 50 process promptly it will probably take two years before Britain is free of Europe. There are some really important legal points to sort. The Irish peace agreement incorporates the European Court of Human Rights. That'll need a delicate touch.

A lot of EEC law will need to be replaced with new British law, and there are defence considerations. Busy busy...

Ah well off to read what the Brit papers have to say.

mada

24th June 2016, 20:37

Fuck NO - too many of the whinging Poms here now bitching about everything NZ but still waving the British flag. Weird how they do that - bla bla back home, bla bla too dear here, bla bla - however each one of them has a better life they could never afford in the motherland.

Nows the time to change our Immigration entry language requirements to Punjabi and Mandarin :shifty:

Ocean1

24th June 2016, 20:41

Hard to appreciate all of the contributing issues from this distance. Easy to blame a burgeoning xenophobia driven by unwanted immigrant policies.

But I wonder how much of it is a simple reaction to the overbearing and largely socialist nanny state direction from Brussels.

May be economically disruptive for a while, but I can't really object to anything that drives against the relentless homogenisation of the world...

george formby

24th June 2016, 20:45

New Zealand. The worlds best place to watch from.

It's done now, BRover, Adi EU.

I think the whole country will be holding their breath even longer.

ellipsis

24th June 2016, 20:47

but I can't really object to anything that drives against the relentless homogenisation of the world...

...yes...:niceone:...

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 20:50

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/well-i-fked-that-up-didnt-i-says-cameron-20160624109749

yokel

24th June 2016, 20:51

RDJ

24th June 2016, 20:53

May be economically disruptive for a while, but I can't really object to anything that drives against the relentless homogenisation of the world...

Damn' right.

Voltaire

24th June 2016, 20:58

AllanB

24th June 2016, 21:01

I lived on a Council Estate in Dagenham for a year in the 80's at a mates place, mingled with the locals, watched couch burning on a Friday night, nearly collected all the Tennents Larger girls and was a regular Sunday Sports reader...
I doubt if leaving the EU will do much for them.
I did learn some useful stuff like how to make an electricity meter run backwards, open a Ford Escort without keys and catch the tube with not ticket.

On your CV you call the above 'life skills' - beats a University Degree.

Ocean1

24th June 2016, 21:01

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/well-i-fked-that-up-didnt-i-says-cameron-20160624109749

:laugh: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/its-been-real-says-scotland-20160624109768

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 21:03

May be economically disruptive for a while, but I can't really object to anything that drives against the relentless homogenisation of the world...

I do see where you are coming from, but at the same time I'm more worried by the issues that potentially arise from the disaggregation of the stabilising groupings of nations. Cold war never escalated due to the way both sides new there was no way of winning, just mutual destruction. With England potentially splitting from Scotland, and Europe no longer having a voice on the UN Security Council, I am honestly more worried than I ever have been at seeing another conflict on the scale of WWII in my lifetime.

YellowDog

24th June 2016, 21:05

Must be time for a new Scottish referendum.... how long do we give the Union?

The Scotts are screwed. If they'd left the UK last year, the price of oil would have killed it for them. They are now scared.

PLUS, if they voted for indepenence, Spain would be veto them from getting into the EU.

The Scotts are :buggerd:

Duncan74

24th June 2016, 21:05

I lived on a Council Estate in Dagenham for a year in the 80's at a mates place, mingled with the locals, watched couch burning on a Friday night, nearly collected all the Tennents Larger girls and was a regular Sunday Sports reader...
I doubt if leaving the EU will do much for them.
I did learn some useful stuff like how to make an electricity meter run backwards, open a Ford Escort without keys and catch the tube with not ticket.

And then demographic analysis showed that the people with the degrees were 80% remain, and the people without were strongly against. Obviously more people without degrees than with. Does a degree automatically lead to an understanding of issues or vice versa? No.

Voltaire

24th June 2016, 21:20

And then demographic analysis showed that the people with the degrees were 80% remain, and the people without were strongly against. Obviously more people without degrees than with. Does a degree automatically lead to an understanding of issues or vice versa? No.

My observations are that the people who expect the Govt to make their lives better with no effort on their own part are the ones who stay poor.
I don't imagine all of NI or Scotland have degrees but they probably can see past their dislike of Tories to the bigger picture.
Time will tell I suppose.

ellipsis

24th June 2016, 21:23

...it will always end up with pointy sticks...too many times proven to scoff at...weak cunts will never get there foothold, the realities would fuck them...

Ocean1

24th June 2016, 21:25

NZ First leader Winston Peters, who has long spoke up in favour of a Brexit, said the trigger point was the effects of mass immigration on the country and voters own economic and social futures.

"The irony is that this happened to a population of 64 million bringing in under 250,000 people a year in contrast to New Zealand with a population of 4.6 million bringing in comparatively three times that number, whilst totally ignoring the economic and social consequences."

................

carbonhed

24th June 2016, 21:56

Meh... the Scots will go for whoever is funding their next welfare check. Offer them a groat more and they'll be on their knees with their arm out. Motherfuckers.

jonbuoy

24th June 2016, 22:21

I can only liken the Brexit decision to someone who has got tired of following the company rules and wants to start their own buisiness. They don't know if they will be better off but at least they feel like they are in charge of their own destiny.

The EU should only have been about easy travel and easy trading. There is/was never a need for a common currency or common laws. I can understand how it might be a bit awkward to live on the border between two countries and have to carry two currency's but people managed for hundreds of years this way. And even after the arrival of the car it was never a massive issue.

mada

24th June 2016, 23:30

Not everyone in Europe is upset.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/20/article-0-116096B0000005DC-353_634x566.jpg

Duncan74

25th June 2016, 05:48

Not everyone in Europe is upset.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/20/article-0-116096B0000005DC-353_634x566.jpg

Most striking is that Putin is being used to illustrate someone inside Europe where now 60m Brits are not.

yokel

25th June 2016, 08:07

http://65.media.tumblr.com/131aa6b3c6706cb156c599ab9a40d9e8/tumblr_nzzmucrK9z1v33hszo1_r1_1280.jpg

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L6PFHP8_bYo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Berries

25th June 2016, 08:27

Yes, I am going to listen to an American wank on about the issue with as much concern about what someone in New Zealand thinks. And if I was being picky I would say the cartoon misrepresents why there was an out vote. They had burkas on the streets of London 40 years ago by the way so no need to play the race and religion card.

Voltaire

25th June 2016, 08:57

mashman

25th June 2016, 09:42

I guess people aren't so afraid of change after all. Whodathunkit.

YellowDog

25th June 2016, 09:43

The British will now be able to give the finger to the EU and buy vacuum cleaners with more than 1600 watts of suck.

There are probably other plus's......

If I was Spain, I'd be charging Brits for Visas...kaching.

Might log on to Andover Norton today and get some spares for the Commando which I now moved from next to the Euro bikes :lol:

No visas required for POMs to travel in Europe. There hasn't been since before the EU.

You will need a passport, but you do anyway, due to illegals and terrorism.

You will need to change currency, no change there either.

I started this treat asking for reasons as to why not to vote for BREXIT. No one gave any :o

Duncan74

25th June 2016, 10:18

I started this treat asking for reasons as to why not to vote for BREXIT. No one gave any :o

Ok. So now we're here, this is my thinking on why if I'd been able to vote, I would have voted stay.

First off the UK has traditionally had influence way beyond it's population and resources on a world stage. As a small island with only 50-60 million population over the last few decades and no significant natural resources then why was it on the UN security council, why part of the G7, and have one of three key financial markets based there? So there was a logic that it was de-facto captain of team Europe now we are all part of a global economy, market, knowledge base. No matter how strong an individual is, compared to a team it is weak. Jonah Lomu or Saint Ritchie at their peaks were individually amazing, but in a game of them versus the local school second XV they would have been hammered. Assuming the EU act in self interest (and why wouldn't they) they will step up to make trade with EU zone and the rest of the world easy and make trade for the UK into the EU markets hard through trade tariffs.

For many parts of the Uk there is significant EU investment into disadvantaged areas. including Sunderland with their Nissan plant. So I see it likely that in the next few years there will be an import duty on cars into Europe, and so the factories in the UK will gradually be wound down. So less jobs, and more expensive imported goods for those in the UK due to exchange rates.

A lack of opportunities for skilled labour and for UK based business to trade across Europe. At a time when the rest of the free world is embracing the advantages from global trade, the Uk is now entering a period where there is at least uncertainty in what they can do and with who.

Note that Immigration was a bit of a red herring. Despite the Nigel Farrage rhetoric, then when pushed the out campaign did not say that they were going to substantially reduce immigration. Despite what is now being claimed by Winston over here. The UK has been in natural population decline for many years. Ie the population actually reducing as a result of more deaths than births. Immigration is the only thing that's increasing the population. Why is this an issue. Well look at the ages of people. The 'Natural' population, as with NZ, is getting older. And so the number of retired is going from a minority to a majority. In order to have the workforce to provide medical care, to stopck the supermarkets, to earn the taxes to pay the pensions, there needs to be some young people acquired from somewhere. So even now there's an exit from the EU, then there is as much, possibly more, of a need to bring in younger immigrants. Just as NZ has that same policy.

The talk of Scotland and northern Ireland leaving the UK is interesting. Whilst both had a mandate to remain in the EU, as standalone countries, I'm not sure that there's any Guarantee that the EU would want them, and so there's a huge issue of how they can leave the UK and then join the EU. SLim chance that a deal can be done prior to the UK exit to have simultaneous separation from Uk and entry to the EU as England an wales leaves, but that's so unlikely due to the complexity and timescales you can almost forget it.

And that's from the top of my head without fully investigating as I would have if I'd been able to vote.

Voltaire

25th June 2016, 10:21

I guess people aren't so afraid of change after all. Whodathunkit.

Cool, now all the English immigrants here here can go back to Little Britain and stop taking jobs and causing house price inflation.... :msn-wink:.....oh hang on...sounding like a Sun reader.

sidecar bob

25th June 2016, 10:44

I see this has sent the yen into a bit of a flap too.
Not ideal for the 25percent of NZ jap car importers that are funding their empires with essentially borrowed Yen.
Don't loiter near tall buildings over the next few weeks.

mashman

25th June 2016, 10:48

Cool, now all the English immigrants here here can go back to Little Britain and stop taking jobs and causing house price inflation.... :msn-wink:.....oh hang on...sounding like a Sun reader.

Fuck that... why shouldn't the rest of the world suffer the same as the UK. We're doing you a favour and we're bringing a better way of to life New Zealand, just like we did a few hundred years ago ;) ... and I didn't complain when I didn't get my slaves upon arrival.

mada

25th June 2016, 10:54

YellowDog

25th June 2016, 10:57

Ok. So now we're here, this is my thinking on why if I'd been able to vote, I would have voted stay.

First off the UK has traditionally had influence way beyond it's population and resources on a world stage. As a small island with only 50-60 million population over the last few decades and no significant natural resources then why was it on the UN security council, why part of the G7, and have one of three key financial markets based there? So there was a logic that it was de-facto captain of team Europe now we are all part of a global economy, market, knowledge base. No matter how strong an individual is, compared to a team it is weak. Jonah Lomu or Saint Ritchie at their peaks were individually amazing, but in a game of them versus the local school second XV they would have been hammered. Assuming the EU act in self interest (and why wouldn't they) they will step up to make trade with EU zone and the rest of the world easy and make trade for the UK into the EU markets hard through trade tariffs.

Rubbish. Read the Lisbon treaty. The UK is a net exporter of oil. Jona & Ritchie would not have been a success in a team of one legged blind players. Europe needs to trade with the UK and will not do anything to hamper this lifeblood. The UK can decide to stay with in the Eurozone, like Norway, or can now chose with whom to trade, including NZ. The lower pound will help immensely.

For many parts of the Uk there is significant EU investment into disadvantaged areas. including Sunderland with their Nissan plant. So I see it likely that in the next few years there will be an import duty on cars into Europe, and so the factories in the UK will gradually be wound down. So less jobs, and more expensive imported goods for those in the UK due to exchange rates.

Nissan's plant in Sunderalnd will not be wound down, neither will Honda's plant in Swindon. The UK can still export cars to Europe, without tarrifs. I would however agree that new plans are less likely to be built. Yes, things will be more expensive for a while, however this will change and the currency will become stronger, once the initial turmoil has settled. The UK puts a lot more into the EU than it receives back.

A lack of opportunities for skilled labour and for UK based business to trade across Europe. At a time when the rest of the free world is embracing the advantages from global trade, the Uk is now entering a period where there is at least uncertainty in what they can do and with who.

The UK can trade with whomever it wants. As a net importer, tarrifs would prove counter productive. The uncertainty won't last long.

Note that Immigration was a bit of a red herring. Despite the Nigel Farrage rhetoric, then when pushed the out campaign did not say that they were going to substantially reduce immigration. Despite what is now being claimed by Winston over here. The UK has been in natural population decline for many years. Ie the population actually reducing as a result of more deaths than births. Immigration is the only thing that's increasing the population. Why is this an issue. Well look at the ages of people. The 'Natural' population, as with NZ, is getting older. And so the number of retired is going from a minority to a majority. In order to have the workforce to provide medical care, to stopck the supermarkets, to earn the taxes to pay the pensions, there needs to be some young people acquired from somewhere. So even now there's an exit from the EU, then there is as much, possibly more, of a need to bring in younger immigrants. Just as NZ has that same policy.

I never saw immigration as a key issue. Economic migrats taking the piss out of the lucrative welfare system, sending cash back to their homelands (not making the UK their homeland) were already being addressed with new laws. The problem I saw here was many UK workers changing from 9-5 x 5 working, to queueing up with migrants to see if they would have any work or not. Winston Peters is irrelevant and well past his sell by date. Not sure how old he is however he can't have too much longer.

The talk of Scotland and northern Ireland leaving the UK is interesting. Whilst both had a mandate to remain in the EU, as standalone countries, I'm not sure that there's any Guarantee that the EU would want them, and so there's a huge issue of how they can leave the UK and then join the EU. SLim chance that a deal can be done prior to the UK exit to have simultaneous separation from Uk and entry to the EU as England an wales leaves, but that's so unlikely due to the complexity and timescales you can almost forget it.

They would not be welcome in the EU. Spain has already stated that it would veto any such applications.

And that's from the top of my head without fully investigating as I would have if I'd been able to vote.

I voted in favour of BREXIT, as no one could produce any solid arguments, I considered worthy and truthful, to persuade me that staying in the quagmire, otherwise known as the EU.

Ocean1

25th June 2016, 11:04

UK certainly is divided....

There's the cultural differences, class, and age. Most the younger votes (those most likely competing with foreign workers too) voted to remain. Hows that going to pan out for their future.

So those old enough to have had the experience of both decided that an un-elected bureaucracy wasn't for them.

Except for the diehard socialists.

Fair enough.

mada

25th June 2016, 11:07

So those old enough to have had the experience of both decided that an un-elected bureaucracy wasn't for them.

Except for the diehard socialists.

Fair enough.

I think it was a bit more complex than that. Good luck to Britain in paying for their NHS and Pensions.

Ocean1

25th June 2016, 11:11

I think it was a bit more complex than that. Good luck to Britain in paying for their NHS and Pensions.

Rather than rely on someone else? There's a name for people like that: Independent.

And I rather think their social welfare budget was never at any risk of any contribution from the EU. Quite the reverse.

nerrrd

25th June 2016, 11:22

With England potentially splitting from Scotland, and Europe no longer having a voice on the UN Security Council, I am honestly more worried than I ever have been at seeing another conflict on the scale of WWII in my lifetime.

I think France is still in Europe.

What is it with democracies and all these narrow votes? 2 percent is nothing. Yay, division triumphs over unity, that's bound to end well. Guess it's never that simple anyway.

Best of luck to my European ancestors.

Duncan74

25th June 2016, 11:30

I think France is still in Europe.
.

Ooh, my bad didn't realise that they were one of the permanent members. That's my 'thing I've learnt today'

Duncan74

25th June 2016, 11:36

UK certainly is divided....

There's the cultural differences, class, and age. Most the younger votes (those most likely competing with foreign workers too) voted to remain. Hows that going to pan out for their future.

Really interesting thing for me is that the Conservative voters were saying Out. I know they have been generally euro sceptic, but it seems all about face. The city and business groups were all very strongly pro remain which is where I'd see 'conservative' voters. Take out the right wing immigration issues that are linked to the conservative rank and file, and focus on economics and it doesn't make sense.

YellowDog

25th June 2016, 11:39

Ooh, my bad didn't realise that they were one of the permanent members. That's my 'thing I've learnt today'

It is still a very good point that you have raised in favour of a united EU.

My view is that Putin wants a war to rescue the Russian economy, that has been hurting so badly with the low oil price. It would also give him an opportunity to settle other old scores at home.

In my view, a divided EU helps this cause :yes:

TheDemonLord

25th June 2016, 11:40

Tis interesting times ahead.

I think the UK will survive and Flourish - it always has, us plucky Brits.

Where the interest will be is the EU - there has been talk of clamping down on member states - but me thinks the adage of the tighter the grip, the more will slip through the fingers will apply. I hope that this is the kick up the arse that Brussels needs to reign itself in.

But perhaps not.

Either way - the people have spoken, and for better or worse - it will be interesting to see where this leads.

Duncan74

25th June 2016, 11:43

.....I voted in favour of BREXIT, as no one could produce any solid arguments, I considered worthy and truthful, to persuade me that staying in the quagmire, otherwise known as the EU.

Ok, some I think I agree / say similar, some that I could come back on.

Mainly in relation to my point not being that the UK would put tariffs on, but why wouldn't the EU import tariffs on cars made outside of the EU apply to cars made in the UK? And those plants build for export to Europe, not just for the UK. I'm more looking at the EU going out of their way to make trade with the UK hard. Also in relation to resource. My point being that we aren't a Saudi, don't have gold, other essential minerals, and if you look at oil, gas (and electricity) then we're at best breaking even, it's not enough to justify our position in the world pecking order as a 'player'.

But that's all a bit arbitrary now. And I'm happy to debate, but I suspect it'd get dreary for all very soon and the call has been made.

mada

25th June 2016, 11:55

Really interesting thing for me is that the Conservative voters were saying Out. I know they have been generally euro sceptic, but it seems all about face. The city and business groups were all very strongly pro remain which is where I'd see 'conservative' voters. Take out the right wing immigration issues that are linked to the conservative rank and file, and focus on economics and it doesn't make sense.

Definitely been a blurring of political lines. Some appear to have voted against what they perceived as socialism and bureaucracy. Others perceived to be voting against the banks, globalization, "the establishment" etc, then those who have voted for nostalgic Britain.

It will be interesting to see how the political parties hold things together there.

YellowDog

25th June 2016, 11:59

Ok, some I think I agree / say similar, some that I could come back on.

Mainly in relation to my point not being that the UK would put tariffs on, but why wouldn't the EU import tariffs on cars made outside of the EU apply to cars made in the UK? And those plants build for export to Europe, not just for the UK. I'm more looking at the EU going out of their way to make trade with the UK hard. Also in relation to resource. My point being that we aren't a Saudi, don't have gold, other essential minerals, and if you look at oil, gas (and electricity) then we're at best breaking even, it's not enough to justify our position in the world pecking order as a 'player'.

But that's all a bit arbitrary now. And I'm happy to debate, but I suspect it'd get dreary for all very soon and the call has been made.

OK - But all this has already been documented in treaties. Any country has the right to leave, without penalties. It just reverts back to being the common market. The EU can't legally be difficult on trade with the UK, other than buying elsewhere. Cars will continue to be bought and sold, without tarrifs. It works both ways and as a net importer, EU members won't want to spoil this. Germany says that the UK is it's 5th receiver of it's exports.

I think New Zealand should merge it's economy with Fiji, Tonga et al (the local eqivelents to Albania & Turkey) and go for a single currency with full economic unity. It'll be great :no:

yokel

25th June 2016, 12:06

Just listen to all the sore losers.
The people have fucking spoken, booing makes you look very stupid.
What kind of moron would go out and protest the result?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MUdHSIGA4To" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Grumph

25th June 2016, 12:08

i find it interesting to compare what is on this (not eurocentric) forum with another I'm on where the brits (divided of course..) and the Euro members are having it out....
Generally the Euro members are amazed it's come to this and are predicting war in europe within their lifetimes...and the Brits are fighting each other.

very amusing from this side of the world...BUT one of the Brits has gone over the unelected issue very thoroughly and generally blown the propaganda about that out of the water. Then he went on to illustrate the points where he - and others reckon the UK governments got it wrong - Starting from Thatcher.
The sequence of events he lists are worryingly similar to NZ since national came to power....

oldrider

25th June 2016, 12:14

The sequence of events he lists are worryingly similar to NZ since national came to power....

How can you tell the difference? - It's been uni-power since WW2! :scratch:

Duncan74

25th June 2016, 12:31

Just listen to all the sore looses.
The people have fucking spoken, booing makes you look very stupid.
What kind of moron would go out and protest the result?

Makes as much sense as those that go out cheering the result. Context is that he was the Mayor of London that was a strongly Remain area, he lives in a 'Remain' area and then after they were stood waiting for ages he dashed out without giving any comment. So even supporters would have been booing. Final straw was that Cameron had literally just quit, and again in an area traditionally Conservative then at that moment he was the reason why the most successful Tory politician in a generation just a year after a stunning election victory had to step down.

yokel

25th June 2016, 12:41

Makes as much sense as those that go out cheering the result. Context is that he was the Mayor of London that was a strongly Remain area, he lives in a 'Remain' area and then after they were stood waiting for ages he dashed out without giving any comment. So even supporters would have been booing. Final straw was that Cameron had literally just quit, and again in an area traditionally Conservative then at that moment he was the reason why the most successful Tory politician in a generation just a year after a stunning election victory had to step down.

How on earth can you compare that with the other side cheering?
No excuse for that kind of behaviour, makes me want to vomit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/j1EtnpulrIg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pritch

25th June 2016, 12:42

It's the first time in the first world that a country has made such a powerful decision without firing a bullet.

Try and tell that to the family of Jo Cox who was shot and stabbed ostensibly in the name of freeing Britain only a week or so ago. :whistle:

YellowDog

25th June 2016, 12:44

Try and tell that to the family of Jo Cox who was shot and stabbed ostensibly in the name of freeing Britain only a week or so ago. :whistle:

An unfortunate gaff by him. I know many whom have met him and say he's a fabulous fellow :yes:

yokel

25th June 2016, 12:56

Try and tell that to the family of Jo Cox who was shot and stabbed ostensibly in the name of freeing Britain only a week or so ago. :whistle:

By this guy that may have or not at all said "Britain first"

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/HEAD-Men-face-trial-for-funding-Brussels-attacks-suspect-TWO-men-charged-with-giving-money-to-Brussels-attacks-suspect-Mohame-682735.jpg

Try and find an image of this Thomas Mair and see what you get.

mada

25th June 2016, 13:00

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/22/eu-referendum-welcome-to-the-divided-angry-kingdom-video

pritch

25th June 2016, 13:33

What many people are missing in all the excitement is that the referendum is not binding. The Government may act on it, or may choose not to.
Until they invoke "Article 50" (think of it as pressing a button) nothing changes. Except there's a lot more hot air?

If they do press the button - and Europe cannot insist that they do - the Government then has two years to negotiate Britain's withdrawal. That two year period cannot be extended unless every country in the EU agrees.

Until that button is pressed though nothing changes.

There are many possibilities for the future. The EU may offer Britain concessions such that they hold another referendum. Apparently in the EU multiple referendums are not unknown, they keep having them until they get the answer they want.

The British Government for years has been pushing an austerity programme thought by many economists to be unnecessary. One thing politicians might learn from this is that if you piss enough people off for long enough, when you give them the opportunity they will vote so as to piss you off, regardless of the outcome.

Virago

25th June 2016, 14:18

Just listen to all the sore losers.
The people have fucking spoken, booing makes you look very stupid.
What kind of moron would go out and protest the result?

What? Sort of like you have accepted the result of this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/170344-Who-still-believes-9-11-was-carried-out-by-terrorists-with-box-cutters) poll? :whistle:

oldrider

25th June 2016, 15:42