Gun happy US police

[Brian d marge]

Well seen as the cop was a Latino its not such the outrage.

Looks like the cop fucked up, perhaps a bit like how dear hunters shoot their mates.
Brain playing tricks, seeing shit out of shapes and shadows.
I would have thought the lack of donuts in either hand was enough of a clue

sent for a divine source

[yokel]

This doesn't make the police look very good either, from the same Guardian edition.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/16/police-black-mens-mugshots-target-practice

Sorry, I see this article is over a year old. Things have probably moved on since,, :no:

Well that's who they're going to be shooting at mostly so it makes sense,
At some point you're going to have to move from shooting bulls eye targets to actual felons.

[Brian d marge]

Well that's who they're going to be shooting at mostly so it makes sense,
At some point you're going to have to move from shooting bulls eye targets to actual felons.
Felons ...ah and there's me thinking of something else
I need to get into production with arrows I mean what with the French and all .
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FvAUp1ripJLE%2F0 .jpg&f=1

sent for a divine source

[Akzle]

This doesn't make the police look very good either, from the same Guardian edition.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/16/police-black-mens-mugshots-target-practice

Sorry, I see this article is over a year old. Things have probably moved on since,, :no:

why the fuck are they training for headshots??

and also, if that's the best they can come up with an a range in controlled conditions, they're fucked when you add loud noises and flashing lights, adrenaline and saccharine.
i mean fuck. top left is alive. and bottom left you just shot the woman with a baby standing behind him.


and remember folks, cops in the us get a whole lot more bullets to practice with than keeeweeeees.
(kiwi cops dont even have to fire the number required to hold a pistol license)

[yokel]

why the fuck are they training for headshots??

and also, if that's the best they can come up with an a range in controlled conditions, they're fucked when you add loud noises and flashing lights, adrenaline and saccharine.
i mean fuck. top left is alive. and bottom left you just shot the woman with a baby standing behind him.


and remember folks, cops in the us get a whole lot more bullets to practice with than keeeweeeees.
(kiwi cops dont even have to fire the number required to hold a pistol license)

I've never shot a hand gun, what do you think about that "mental ill" kid shouting ali akbar killing 9 in Munich?

[Brian d marge]

I've never shot a hand gun, what do you think about that "mental ill" kid shouting ali akbar killing 9 in Munich?
Fake
As in set up.

Surprised he hasn't bought one of those nuclear bomb proof passports from Turkey...u know the ones ... fires that can melt buildings but not this passport
Blown to bits in Belgium, but not this passport


sent for a divine source

[yokel]

Fake
As in set up.

Surprised he hasn't bought one of those nuclear bomb proof passports from Turkey...u know the ones ... fires that can melt buildings but not this passport
Blown to bits in Belgium, but not this passport


sent for a divine source

The media trying to associate this shooter with "far right" wingsers and nationalists is just laughable, stupid talking heads in the TV box.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eu6zVZoQi5g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Akzle]

I've never shot a hand gun,
pretty sure the wind just kicked up a few knots as all af KB breathed a sigh of relief.


what do you think about that "mental ill" kid shouting ali akbar killing 9 in Munich?

dont know dont care. should I?

[yokel]

pretty sure the wind just kicked up a few knots as all af KB breathed a sigh of relief.



dont know dont care. should I?

Well I have had a crack on a M60.
Wow Is it cold in here or are you just too cool to care?

[TheDemonLord]

I've never shot a hand gun

Such a shame really...

http://lethallystupid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/abc_looking_down_gun_barrel_5547-250x240.jpg

[Akzle]

Well I have had a crack on a M60.
Wow Is it cold in here or are you just too cool to care?

errr. it's too fucking irrelevant for me to care.

pray, where did you come by the story?
(pro-tip, it was jews)

[Akzle]

Such a shame really...

[IMG]http://lethallystupid.com

:clap::clap:

[Madness]

Doesn't count - that one isn't dead. Crappy marksmanship if you ask me.

Kachingo!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/82519501/man-who-by-police-in-rotorua-dies-in-hospital

[jasonu]

Kachingo!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/82519501/man-who-by-police-in-rotorua-dies-in-hospital

Another dead beat out of the benefit pool. Good job NZ police.

[Katman]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2VfORKaMfgA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

It's an interesting exchange - esp if you watch closely at 0:53 onwards - the Cop goes to get his notebook (or ticket book - I'm not sure) and then the kid looks like they try to do a runner, Cop tackles them and it looks like they try again to run or fight (can't be certain - angle of the video), Cop Pins them, then tries to arrest them - Kid looks to resist again, Cop gets a little heavy handed.

Is it excessive? Possibly.

But in the interaction, it seems to me that the Kid starts something, the Cop finishes it. The Cop is reacting to the Kids actions.

The other cop backing up his partner doesn't do a lot except when it looks like the other kid is trying to get up to help their friend, at which point the other cop pushes him back down on the floor (probably with a reminder not to interfere).

If the kid hadn't tried to flee, Hadn't resisted (like the other kid didn't) me thinks this wouldn't have happened.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If the kid hadn't tried to flee, Hadn't resisted (like the other kid didn't) me thinks this wouldn't have happened.

Me thinks none of this would've happened if the kid was white...

[TheDemonLord]

Me thinks none of this would've happened if the kid was white...

I've seen plenty of US Cop videos where they were equally heavy handed with white suspects who tried to pull a fast one.

It would be nice to hear the Audio, but from what I see - the cops are only reacting to actions made by the suspect - whether they are over-reacting is debatable (it does look a bit heavy handed) - but I fall on the side of:

Don't want to be thrown on the ground and tasered? then don't try to run and resist arrest!

[Brian d marge]

If you are running the economy into the ground and knowing full well a positive shyt storm is heading your way .. i personally would me militarizing the police , helps if u employ a few loose cannons .and when it goes all venezuela on ya .
Bingo ya have ya bases covered.. just a thought thats all

sent for a divine source

[jasonu]

Me thinks none of this would've made it onto the interweb if the kid was white...

Fixed it for ya.

[GooseNZ]

From your link.


You do realise the "black lives matter" are an elite funded political group of shit stirrers.

While a massive political scandal is unfolding, the media will be "white cop shoots a black man, black lives matter blah blah ........

Now lets all be distracted by this side show.
Protests and maybe some riots, it's all good TV watching.






How many blacks are killed by whites?
How many blacks are killed by blacks?
what percentage of the US's population is black?

There is no racism any more, get over it.

Oh yeah, who said? "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists!"
To answer some of the questions posed...

Here are some interesting U.S. stats from the FBI that help to put things in perspective...

1. “It would take 40 years worth of blacks killed by cops to equal the number of blacks killed by other blacks in one year”

2. “Less than 400 people a year are killed by cops, 61% of them are white. 32% are black”

3. “Black males are 58% of those killed by justifiable self defense…75% of those are by other blacks.”

4. “Blacks are 27% more likely to attacks whites than vice versa…8 times more likely to attack hispanics”

5. “90% of murdered black die at the hands of other blacks.

FYI a Criminologist called Dr Richard Johnson compiled this for the FBI.

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[GooseNZ]

I watched both of the shooting videos that were available. One thing was common between them, the cops were the ones with all the power yet, to me at least, they seemed to be terrified.
You have to ask what kind of selection process they go through to recruit police over there and what kind of training police get to prepare them for the job.
The woman in the first shooting was sitting beside her dying boyfriend with a child in the back seat. She seemed calm, collected and with the presence of mind to keep her voice steady and physical actions under control. The cop on the other hand was borderline hysterical.

The second is beyond belief, two policemen have one guy pinned to the ground and the man being restrained is shot at point blank range multiple times, a cow in an abattoir has more chance.

Its not guns, NZ has a shit load of guns, its a country whose people are gripped and controlled by fear.:eek5:
I don't watch the news (because it's always depressing and filled with voilence) so I haven't seen the videos.

What I can say is that nobody should be judged by "armchair" warriors who weren't there, don't have all the facts, and who haven't/don't put their lives on the line on a regular basis.

Video will often show part of an incident (and from one angle). It also doesn't show what happened prior and it certainly doesn't give you the officers assessment of the threat which is based on several factors including what the threat is, whether it can be carried out, the necessity to act immediately (or withdraw if it is safe to do so), and what response (from the officer) would be reasonable in the circumstances.

Now...I'm not saying that cops don't make mistakes (they are human). Of course they do. But...apart from the rare "bad apple" they do good work and put their lives on the line everyday.

Not a fan of Traffic cops though...they like giving me speeding tickets. 😆

Just my two cents...

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[Ulsterkiwi]

And what you got was my two cents, I made it clear my observations were based on the video available and how things seemed to me based on that. Of course there is more to it than that, there always is. I do not subscribe to the "all cops are evil bullies" thinking. We form a judgment based on the evidence available, my comments were not made from the perspective of an expert but from what I saw. An officer not in command and two who clearly were but felt it necessary to shoot a man point blank while he lay on the ground. I haven't kept up with these events since but I would be relieved to hear unequivocal evidence that killing these men was unavoidable. Relieved because no country needs pointless killing, the US more than most.


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[Brian d marge]

England is just as bad
https://youtu.be/z55mLS-qWnc


sent for a divine source

[Katman]

http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/deaf-us-man-shot-dead-by-police-for-not-following-commands-2016082315?ref=newshubFB

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/deaf-us-man-shot-dead-by-police-for-not-following-commands-2016082315?ref=newshubFB

But I thought only black people could be shot by the Police....

[scumdog]

http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/deaf-us-man-shot-dead-by-police-for-not-following-commands-2016082315?ref=newshubFB

That'll learn him for being deaf&dumb.<_<

[Brian d marge]

That'll learn him for being deaf&dumb.and STUPID<_<

95 % of the population...

[Bass]

Trip to the US last year, at a truly delightful place called 3 step in Utah, had a conversation over some bourbon about firearms.
The universal attitude, male and female, was that they wanted the right to carry guns FOR PROTECTION and had no issues with concealed carry either.
These were warm friendly people that I was pleased to socialise with and no hint of the redneck that I could detect.
How does it affect a cop's attitude when pretty much anyone that they interact with may have a concealed handgun?

[Banditbandit]

How does it affect a cop's attitude when pretty much anyone that they interact with may have a concealed handgun?

Yes. Exactly. And you can't blame the armed populace either - pretty much anyone they get into an argument with can be carrying a gun ...

That's why we need to keep OUR country's gun control laws.

[scumdog]

Yes. Exactly. And you can't blame the armed populace either - pretty much anyone they get into an argument with can be carrying a gun ...

That's why we need to keep OUR country's gun control laws.

And not make them any more restrictive:no:

[ellipsis]

...if I sent O'Connor a vid of how much damage I could do with a club and a pointy stick it wouldn't make him any less a disruptive and dangerous man , would it?...

[oldrider]

Gun laws only inconvenience the law abiding - criminals can have any weapon that they choose as long as can pay for it and manage the risk involved! :psst:

[caseye]

Gun laws only inconvenience the law abiding - criminals can have any weapon that they choose as long as can pay for it and manage the risk involved! :psst:

Give this man a medal for being 100% RIGHT.

What the pollies and the tree hugging do gooders don't seem to understand is , making ,laws so draconian that no one can abide by them STILL doesn't stop the unlawful/criminal from having any firearm/weapon they can imagine as long as they can afford to pay for it, while the other 99% law abiding population get shafted by stupid and unenforceable laws.

[Woodman]

Give this man a medal for being 100% RIGHT.

What the pollies and the tree hugging do gooders don't seem to understand is , making ,laws so draconian that no one can abide by them STILL doesn't stop the unlawful/criminal from having any firearm/weapon they can imagine as long as they can afford to pay for it, while the other 99% law abiding population get shafted by stupid and unenforceable laws.

The us is too far gone to solve its gun problem, they could legislate, have an amnesty or limit supply of guns and ammo, but that will only have the effect of making the criminals better armed, and end up making criminals of the law abiding population who will arm-up to protect themselves from the well armed criminals who don't give a fuck about the law.

[bogan]

Give this man a medal for being 100% RIGHT.

What the pollies and the tree hugging do gooders don't seem to understand is , making ,laws so draconian that no one can abide by them STILL doesn't stop the unlawful/criminal from having any firearm/weapon they can imagine as long as they can afford to pay for it, while the other 99% law abiding population get shafted by stupid and unenforceable laws.

Therein lies the point, take such items away from law abiding citizens, and the black market price skyrockets. The crims then stick with cheaper handguns, which are arguably more suited to their sort of shenanigans anyway.

Effective weapons legislation is never about making it impossible to procure them, just making it so expensive or difficult that nobody bothers.

As for getting shafted, tell us again why Joe citizen needs automatic assault weapons?

[jasonu]

As for getting shafted, tell us again why Joe citizen needs automatic assault weapons?

Joe Public cannot get automatic assault weapons.

[bogan]

Joe Public cannot get automatic assault weapons.

Sorry, "semi"-automatic assault weapons then; why does Joe Public need them?

[jasonu]

Sorry, "semi"-automatic assault weapons then; why does Joe Public need them?

In case a crim that has one wants to relieve you of your ipod, blood, life... no point showing up to a gun fight with a knife.

[bogan]

In case a crim that has one wants to relieve you of your ipod, blood, life... no point showing up to a gun fight with a knife.

And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?

[Ulsterkiwi]

Sorry, "semi"-automatic assault weapons then; why does Joe Public need them?

To shoot joe bunny?


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[jasonu]

And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?

You don't know what you are talking about.

This is the sort of thing that can happen when you are out gunned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Extreme example I know but when AR15's etc are so easy for ANYONE to obtain why should I take any chances with my home and family defense.

[bogan]

You don't know what you are talking about.

This is the sort of thing that can happen when you are out gunned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Extreme example I know but when AR15's etc are so easy for ANYONE to obtain why should I take any chances with my home and family defense.

Are you taking the piss? That was a shootout between criminals and police, in which the criminals had exactly the kind of weapon stricter gun control seeks to prevent them from having. And you use this as an example of why Joe Public needs semi-automatic weapons? I would instead suggest you have no idea what I'm talking about. The police would still have access to weapons required to subdue heavily armed individuals, it's the public that would not have that access, thus depriving the criminal's of the main avenue to which they get access to such weapons.

But, that incident does demonstrate how valid the "semi" distinction is when referring to automatic assault weapons...

[Crasherfromwayback]

And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?




Extreme example I know but when AR15's etc are so easy for ANYONE to obtain why should I take any chances with my home and family defense.

12G shotgun would be my weapon of choice for protecting my family in my home.

[bogan]

12G shotgun would be my weapon of choice for protecting my family in my home.

That sounds more like it, sure as shit wouldn't want to be firing rounds that are still lethal after passing through a wall or two.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That sounds more like it, sure as shit wouldn't want to be firing rounds that are still lethal after passing through a wall or two.

You got it mate. Especially as I live in an apartment...wouldn't want to miss either. Might only get one shot.

[jasonu]

Are you taking the piss? That was a shootout between criminals and police, in which the criminals had exactly the kind of weapon stricter gun control seeks to prevent them from having. And you use this as an example of why Joe Public needs semi-automatic weapons? I would instead suggest you have no idea what I'm talking about. The police would still have access to weapons required to subdue heavily armed individuals, it's the public that would not have that access, thus depriving the criminal's of the main avenue to which they get access to such weapons.

But, that incident does demonstrate how valid the "semi" distinction is when referring to automatic assault weapons...

See post 292.

[pritch]

To answer some of the questions posed...

Here are some interesting U.S. stats from the FBI that help to put things in perspective...

1. “It would take 40 years worth of blacks killed by cops to equal the number of blacks killed by other blacks in one year”

2. “Less than 400 people a year are killed by cops, 61% of them are white. 32% are black”

3. “Black males are 58% of those killed by justifiable self defense…75% of those are by other blacks.”

4. “Blacks are 27% more likely to attacks whites than vice versa…8 times more likely to attack hispanics”

5. “90% of murdered black die at the hands of other blacks.

FYI a Criminologist called Dr Richard Johnson compiled this for the FBI.




The good doctor is talking crap in one respect so the rest of his figures are suspect too. The police are killing over 1000 people every year in the USA, a significant portion are unarmed, some are children. The US Government has not been tracking the figures, but lately several other sources have. The figures vary slightly, the Washington Post's are slightly lower, they only count shootings by cops who are on duty at the time. Some cops are so enthusiastic as to shoot people when they are off duty and these may be included in other counts.

[Brian d marge]

I posted the links a few pages back

sent for a divine source

[bogan]

See post 292.

Have you recently received a head injury? that was the post I quoted and responded to.

You guys know it's ok to be honest and just say "I like guns" right? There's no need for this "self/home defense" bullshit justification for them; all it achieves is making you look like irresponsible fools, which are character traits of people who really shouldn't have guns...

[pritch]

There's no need for this "self/home defense" bullshit justification for them;

Actually, if you did apply for a firearms licence on those grounds you almost certainly wouldn't get it.

I for one hope the Police don't get to carry guns all the time, they just don't get the training required and they would be a danger to the public. I'm reliably informed they currently get one day training per year, (perhaps, weather permitting).

NZ had no firearms licencing prior to 1918 and that year is not a coincidence. The then new law was not to protect the public, the politicians had noticed what had taken place in Russia in 1917 and didn't want that to happen here. Then as now, they were motivated soley by the desire to save their own arses.

Once many years ago Winchester had a rep attend the local gun club. Somebody asked the rep what Winchester's biggest selling model was, the Pigeon Grade or the new Diamond Grade? Came the answer, "The Defender".
"What's that?
"An eight shot, pump action, riot gun."
"Who the Hell buys those?"
"Every accountant, every lawyer, and every shop keeper in Auckland has one of those."
(And so too did at least one National Party MP.)

In case there is confusion, the Police will not protect you. 'When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.'

They will (may?) subsequently attend the scene of the crime, they will probably investigate, and resources permitting they may even prosecute their suspect(s). They will not protect you, that's not their job, that's up to you. How you might do that is problematical, our firearms storage requirements can make using a firearm for self defence impractical.

For all the talk about it, I've only ever come across one person who had cause to present a firearm at intruders. He had a group of gang members in his house. They got the hint, they left. At speed.

[jasonu]

Have you recently received a head injury? that was the post I quoted and responded to.

I know what I posted. I thought you should give it another, slower read because you didn't get it the first time.


You guys know it's ok to be honest and just say "I like guns" right? There's no need for this "self/home defense" bullshit justification for them; all it achieves is making you look like irresponsible fools, which are character traits of people who really shouldn't have guns...

Yes I like guns. Guns are fun.I shoot my guns often. I like shooting with my friends who also like guns. I like reloading my own ammo. I like scouring the internet for good ammo deals. I like maintaining and cleaning my guns. I also like to be prepared for the day or night I need to use my guns to properly and safely defend myself, my family and my property and hopefully that day will never come. All gun owners I know are normal people who happen to like guns. That doesn't make them (or me) gun nuts just like owning a Hardly doesn't automatically make you a rapist.

[bogan]

Yes I like guns. Guns are fun.I shoot my guns often. I like shooting with my friends who also like guns. I like reloading my own ammo. I like scouring the internet for good ammo deals. I like maintaining and cleaning my guns. I also like to be prepared for the day or night I need to use my guns to properly and safely defend myself, my family and my property and hopefully that day will never come. All gun owners I know are normal people who happen to like guns. That doesn't make them (or me) gun nuts just like owning a Hardly doesn't automatically make you a rapist.

I read it slower, and I'm still baffled as to how that situation benefited from Joe Public having access to semi-automatic assault weapons. Perhaps, and this may be a long shot, you should make more of a point than 'bad things with guns' therefor 'more guns'! The link between the two is just not logical...

The rest, is all fair enough, but not a justification for Joe Public having access to automatic weapons, semi or not.

[jasonu]

I read it slower, and I'm still baffled as to how that situation benefited from Joe Public having access to semi-automatic assault weapons.

.

From your post 290
'And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?'

The link I provided shows how ineffective light caliber handguns are when put up against semi or full auto rifles. I didn't really consider the bolt action rifle but I would hate to rely on one in a 'situation'. Your first shot better be a good 'un because you won't get the time for a second if the bad guy has a semi auto rifle.

When used responsibly guns are a fun and relatively safe and cheap hobby that have the 'home defense' benefit. Safer than my last pastime of road racing motorcycles which kept me poor and nearly killed me (bloody Paeroa). You are welcome to come over and try mine out.

[scumdog]

Therein lies the point, take such items away from law abiding citizens, and the black market price skyrockets. The crims then stick with cheaper handguns, which are arguably more suited to their sort of shenanigans anyway.

Effective weapons legislation is never about making it impossible to procure them, just making it so expensive or difficult that nobody bothers.

As for getting shafted, tell us again why Joe citizen needs automatic assault weapons?


Nobody has said citizens need 'automatic assault weapons' did they?

In any event they don't.

[bogan]

From your post 290
'And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?'

The link I provided shows how ineffective light caliber handguns are when put up against semi or full auto rifles. I didn't really consider the bolt action rifle but I would hate to rely on one in a 'situation'. Your first shot better be a good 'un because you won't get the time for a second if the bad guy has a semi auto rifle.

When used responsibly guns are a fun and relatively safe and cheap hobby that have the 'home defense' benefit. Safer than my last pastime of road racing motorcycles which kept me poor and nearly killed me (bloody Paeroa). You are welcome to come over and try mine out.

The crims were bank robbers, not some blokes after your ipod so that purpose is completely different. Nor did the availability of assault weapons provide any benefit to the civilians anyway, quite the opposite in fact.

Yeh, we get that if you get into a pitched firefight then assault weapons will be advantageous. But what you need to understand, is that effective gun legislation aims to prevent such firefights being so commonplace that you would open carry assault rifles (the only way I can see them preventing another such situation like that one).

[bogan]

Nobody has said citizens need 'automatic assault weapons' did they?

In any event they don't.

And how about semi-automatics? or semi-autos which are very easily converted to full auto? do citizens need those?

[scumdog]

And how about semi-automatics? or semi-autos which are very easily converted to full auto? do citizens need those?

That makes as much sense as 'do citizens need motorbikes that can do 200kph plus?'

[bogan]

That makes as much sense as 'do citizens need motorbikes that can do 200kph plus?'

It's a simple question, it's those who answer yes that fail to make sense. And to answer yours: of course not, but I've not heard of anyone carrying a 200kph plus bike into a theater and murdering 12 people with it, have you?

[Brian d marge]

I have a semi , it used to be full auto

But at my age .....

sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

Nobody has said citizens need 'automatic assault weapons' did they?

In any event they don't.
It's called a deterrent. If the citizens have the same or greater fire power that the police
It deters the police from misbehaving

sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

From your post 290
'And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?'

The link I provided shows how ineffective light caliber handguns are when put up against semi or full auto rifles. I didn't really consider the bolt action rifle but I would hate to rely on one in a 'situation'. Your first shot better be a good 'un because you won't get the time for a second if the bad guy has a semi auto rifle.

When used responsibly guns are a fun and relatively safe and cheap hobby that have the 'home defense' benefit. Safer than my last pastime of road racing motorcycles which kept me poor and nearly killed me (bloody Paeroa). You are welcome to come over and try mine out.
President Kennedy was head shot in a moving vehicle with a Carcano Model 91/38 ..

Impressive shot one thinks to ones self

sent for a divine source

[pritch]

It's a simple question, it's those who answer yes that fail to make sense. And to answer yours: of course not, but I've not heard of anyone carrying a 200kph plus bike into a theater and murdering 12 people with it, have you?

If you are referring to the incident I suspect then that's interesting. The perpetrator had theatres that were closer to home, there were bigger theatres, but he went to a theatre that had a sign saying that guns were not permitted. Smart decision on his part. Then he tried to make out he was insane...

Guys who live in town talking about guns is like car drivers telling motorcyclists what to do. It might be news to people in Ponsonby or Karori but once you leave the 50kph signs behind most households have a firearm. Those that don't can be considered a pain in the arse by their neighbours. The type of firearm will depend on the requirement of the particular farmer. And yes, some actually do need a semi auto c/f rifle.

[Katman]

It's a simple question, it's those who answer yes that fail to make sense. And to answer yours: of course not, but I've not heard of anyone carrying a 200kph plus bike into a theater and murdering 12 people with it, have you?

Yeah, 2 or 3 is usually the limit.

[bogan]

If you are referring to the incident I suspect then that's interesting. The perpetrator had theatres that were closer to home, there were bigger theatres, but he went to a theatre that had a sign saying that guns were not permitted. Smart decision on his part. Then he tried to make out he was insane...

Guys who live in town talking about guns is like car drivers telling motorcyclists what to do. It might be news to people in Ponsonby or Karori but once you leave the 50kph signs behind most households have a firearm. Those that don't can be considered a pain in the arse by their neighbours. The type of firearm will depend on the requirement of the particular farmer. And yes, some actually do need a semi auto c/f rifle.

That's the one, pre-meditated murder just gets much easier with high capacity and high rate of fire weapons.

Some car drivers ride bikes too... So why do farmers need semi automatic weapons?

[Akzle]

Sorry, "semi"-automatic assault weapons then; why does Joe Public need them?
define "assault weapons"

pro-tip, try to do better than the nz stasi.

12G shotgun would be my weapon of choice for protecting my family in my home.
interesting choice.
unwieldly.
in many cases presenting a firearm (personally I find the business end of a .4x calibre pistol scary as shit) will de-escalate the situation, without even the need for shots fired.
hollywood has a lot to answer for. if you don't shoot, or don't get shot at, it's all hyperbole.



I for one hope the Police don't get to carry guns all the time, they just don't get the training required and they would be a danger to the public. I'm reliably informed they currently get one day training per year, (perhaps, weather permitting).
the average bobby (with access to firearms) has to shoot LESS than is even required for a B cat (pistol) license (by about 10 fold)
just goes to show, sign up with the right gang and they'll look after you, legislature or no,

there are many and varied reasons why (particularly NZ) police should not be routinely armed. not least of which is their inability to de-escalate situations. (let alone actually shoot the people who should be shot)


NZ had no firearms licencing prior to 1918 and that year is not a coincidence. The then new law was not to protect the public, the politicians had noticed what had taken place in Russia in 1917 and didn't want that to happen here. Then as now, they were motivated soley by the desire to save their own arses.

crown legislature is a fucking laugh, all the way through. but oldie hit it. legislation only affects the X% who choose to abide by any part of it at any time, and those who get caught infringing it.

i've seen police amouries. i've seen gang amouries.
i know which side i'll be on when the SHTF.


That's the one, pre-meditated murder just gets much easier with high capacity and high rate of fire weapons.

Some car drivers ride bikes too... So why do farmers need semi automatic weapons?
to kill lots of shit quickly.

are you sugesting my 90y/o grandfather (who can crank 30rds through an enfield over irons faster and more accurately than most goons with a modern semis) should be limited to a single shot?

your argument is stupid.

[pritch]

So why do farmers need semi automatic weapons?

Now you have demonstrated that you've no idea what you're on about. Best to stfu? :whistle:

[scumdog]

President Kennedy was head shot in a moving vehicle with a Carcano Model 91/38 ..

Impressive shot one thinks to ones self

sent for a divine source

And the Raurimu massacre dude used a single-barrelled shotgun to kill his 5 victims

[pritch]

And the Raurimu massacre dude used a single-barrelled shotgun to kill his 5 victims

To me the interesting thing about that was that people sent their kids to the houses of firearms owners.

But the likes of Bogan will have no idea why?

[bogan]

Now you have demonstrated that you've no idea what you're on about. Best to stfu? :whistle:

Or, you could answer the question, cos none of the farmers I know need em. None of the farms I've shot on have even had em, bolt actions do a fine job of varmint control.

[pritch]

, cos none of the farmers I know need em.

There you go. You need to get out more.

[bogan]

To me the interesting thing about that was that people sent their kids to the houses of firearms owners.

But the likes of Bogan will have no idea why?

I'd ask why a nutjob had access to a gun in the first place. While more guns could have saved his later victims, you're never going to stop the first shots (not having access to that gun would though). But more guns will mean more first shots. It's almost as if there could be some sort of causal link to go along with US's high gun death and high gun ownership rates... :whistle: But I guess you don't want to hear that, is that why I'm told to STFU?


There you go. You need to get out more.

And you still need to give a reason... bit tricky to think up a good one though isn't it :laugh:

[pritch]

And you still need to give a reason... bit tricky to think up a good one though isn't it :laugh:

Fuck off. I don't come to KB to argue but excessive stupidity can piss me off.

Helen Clark didn't own a gun, none of her friends owned guns, in her mind therefore nobody needed guns.

Your logic is exactly the same.

Have you ridden south of Taupo? Have you ridden SH43? If you get out and about with eyes open you'll see lots of country where the major pest control problem isn't rabbits.

You don't even seem to know what country you live in. Like I said get out more.

[bogan]

Fuck off. I don't come to KB to argue but excessive stupidity can piss me off.

Helen Clark didn't own a gun, none of her friends owned guns, in her mind therefore nobody needed guns.

Your logic is exactly the same.

Have you ridden south of Taupo? Have you ridden SH43? If you get out and about with eyes open you'll see lots of country where the major pest control problem isn't rabbits.

You don't even seem to know what country you live in. Like I said get out more.

Ah, there's the eloquence we've come to expect of gun advocates :facepalm: Nobody is saying take all the guns, nobody is saying take away all your deterrents for 'pests'; so lets shoot down that strawman eh. I'm saying take away the guns that any demented fuckwit can pick up, and go kill tens of people in one spree.

I've ridden much of the country in fact, it gets a little different up in the far north. Perhaps the problem is that people take exception to being refereed to as pests? That's probably your problem tbh, get some wider perspective, tally up gun murders vs armed police kills vs self defense kills with guns...

[scumdog]

Ah, there's the eloquence we've come to expect of gun advocates :facepalm: Nobody is saying take all the guns, nobody is saying take away all your deterrents for 'pests'; so lets shoot down that strawman eh. I'm saying take away the guns that any demented fuckwit can pick up, and go kill tens of people in one spree.

I've ridden much of the country in fact, it gets a little different up in the far north. Perhaps the problem is that people take exception to being refereed to as pests? That's probably your problem tbh, get some wider perspective, tally up gun murders vs armed police kills vs self defense kills with guns...

Are you drunk?

[Brian d marge]

What happened in 1917 ... Was a colorful revolution... And one family in a basement not exactly sharp shooting
Dumbarse americans


sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

And the Raurimu massacre dude used a single-barrelled shotgun to kill his 5 victims
He reloaded quickly then

sent for a divine source

[bogan]

Are you drunk?

Jeez, what is it with this topic and all these questions and insinuations about me instead of actual points? It's like arguing with Ed, but less pink bits. You guys really should be doing better than that :yawn:

If you want a drunk guy to talk to, check the two posts above this one...

[TheDemonLord]

Or, you could answer the question, cos none of the farmers I know need em. None of the farms I've shot on have even had em, bolt actions do a fine job of varmint control.

Pest control/Culling (especially on a commercial scale).
Competition shooting.
Preference for the lighter recoil of a Semi-Auto.
Preference for the ease of reloading (esp if the shooter has trouble cycling a bolt).

To address your points - IMO, the US gun Laws are fucked. The UK went waaaay too overboard - NZ has got a pretty good balance. Personally anyone who thinks they need a firearm for self-defence is not the type of person that I think should be walking around with a firearm - case in point, the US and accidental shootings by scared people with a handgun (and yes, that includes the police). If your point is what we 'need' then yes the concession is that for the purpose of Farming or Hunting, there isn't a 'need' for semi or full auto. But then I don't need a Hayabusa, a 250 was 'fine'. The point being that we are allowed to safely operate objects that far exceed the limits of what is needed, provided we follow the rules for the operation of said objects.

Final point - whilst there is a causal link in the US, look at Canada, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and NZ, all countries with relatively high Guns per capita - all countries with high guns per Capita (although not as high as the US) all countries with strong and well established Hunting and farming cultures and all countries with a very mature gun cultures.

I'll agree that part of the problem is America's Gun Laws (and the extremely high availability of firearms), but it's not the only part.

[pete376403]

President Kennedy was head shot in a moving vehicle with a Carcano Model 91/38 ..

Impressive shot one thinks to ones self

sent for a divine source

But it was loaded with magic bullets. How else to explain the "single bullet theory" - According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally.[3] This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side

[Katman]

But it was loaded with magic bullets. How else to explain the "single bullet theory" - According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally.[3] This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side

Careful - you'll be labelled a nut case.

[Brian d marge]

Scumdog ur drunk u fker

sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

But it was loaded with magic bullets. How else to explain the "single bullet theory" - According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally.[3] This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side
And didn't he do that 3 x ... For a patsy , he's a machine

sent for a divine source

[Akzle]

. It's almost as if there could be some sort of causal link to go along with US's high gun death and high gun ownership rates... :whistle:

except there isnt.
canada has similar gun ownership rates and less shootings.
even humble nz, 1 in 12 peoples legally own guns, up to and including "military style semi automatics" and on last count (admittedly in the 80s) the average license holder had four. each.
latest "professional" estimates put it at 1.5 million guns in nz.

the us has a sick culture. firearms are a symptom, not cause.

the fact is that heart disease, obesity, cancer and cars kill more people (globally, but especially in nz) than firearms. but I rarely hear the call to ban cars, or limit their dangerousness to 30km/h and wrap them in foam, nor ban fast food "restaurants" from the country, nor have fat people shipped to an island to loose some fucking weight, nor even extinguish the sun, to prevent all that blasted skin cancer.
no, it's, what was it?, "assault weapons" that you should concern yourself with...

[Big Dog]

except there isnt.
canada has similar gun ownership rates and less shootings.
even humble nz, 1 in 12 peoples legally own guns, up to and including "military style semi automatics" and on last count (admittedly in the 80s) the average license holder had four. each.
latest "professional" estimates put it at 1.5 million guns in nz.

the us has a sick culture. firearms are a symptom, not cause.

the fact is that heart disease, obesity, cancer and cars kill more people (globally, but especially in nz) than firearms. but I rarely hear the call to ban cars, or limit their dangerousness to 30km/h and wrap them in foam, nor ban fast food "restaurants" from the country, nor have fat people shipped to an island to loose some fucking weight, nor even extinguish the sun, to prevent all that blasted skin cancer.
no, it's, what was it?, "assault weapons" that you should concern yourself with...
When was the last time someone burst into a bank "Get down this is a mother fucking robbery, any one moves I'll feed you all cheeseburgers until I induce cholesterol related cardiac arrest in every last one of you!".

Fast food, alcohol, sweets, sun exposure are not generally things we inflict on others.
They are lifestyle choices we make. Life experiences tell me people who expose themselves to these risks do so willingly and with little doubt of the consequences. That if their risk of choice were unavailable they would select another.

Killing someone is a lifestyle choice of the killer but the victim rarely has any say in the events. Suicide an obvious exception.

If I invented a way to walk into a room and expose an entire room of people to enough uv that decimation was likely within seconds and similar numbers maimed, it would be right that that device would be banned unless I could show a genuine benifit to the world at large and then the populace would want it controlled.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[bogan]

Pest control/Culling (especially on a commercial scale).
Competition shooting.
Preference for the lighter recoil of a Semi-Auto.
Preference for the ease of reloading (esp if the shooter has trouble cycling a bolt).

To address your points - IMO, the US gun Laws are fucked. The UK went waaaay too overboard - NZ has got a pretty good balance. Personally anyone who thinks they need a firearm for self-defence is not the type of person that I think should be walking around with a firearm - case in point, the US and accidental shootings by scared people with a handgun (and yes, that includes the police). If your point is what we 'need' then yes the concession is that for the purpose of Farming or Hunting, there isn't a 'need' for semi or full auto. But then I don't need a Hayabusa, a 250 was 'fine'. The point being that we are allowed to safely operate objects that far exceed the limits of what is needed, provided we follow the rules for the operation of said objects.

Final point - whilst there is a causal link in the US, look at Canada, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and NZ, all countries with relatively high Guns per capita - all countries with high guns per Capita (although not as high as the US) all countries with strong and well established Hunting and farming cultures and all countries with a very mature gun cultures.

I'll agree that part of the problem is America's Gun Laws (and the extremely high availability of firearms), but it's not the only part.

Good post. I'll concede there are certainly factors other than high gun ownership that lead to US's atrocious statistics; but figures I've seen still put US ahead by about 5x so I don't think putting NZ and US in a similar category for gun ownership is appropriate.

As to the point about bikes, it's a tradeoff, nobody needs semi-autos or high powered bikes when you have bolt actions and cars. But there's another side to the scale, a guns purpose is to kill, and there is much room for abuse; the bikes purpose is transportation, and the room for abuse is through ineptitude, not murderous intent. This is reflected in the statistics.

Aussie is also worth looking at, the Port Arthur massacre and subsequent ban on semi-autos; I'm just not seeing any downsides from that ban, and given the lack of mass shootings and increased decline in gun deaths since then, well it paints a pretty strong picture.

[Brian d marge]

If u want a one world government , ya can't have sheep with guns . Period

sent for a divine source

[Crasherfromwayback]

interesting choice.
unwieldly.

.

Not really.

324121

[pritch]

nobody needs semi-autos

You still banging on about that? You are wrong. If a back country farmer has say twenty goats come out of the bush, ideally he'd like to shoot all twenty before they can get back to the bush. Very hard to do that with a bolt action. I've met a farmer with a Simonov (and yes, it was a Simonov not a Norinco), others have a Ruger or other semi automatic for just that purpose.

Then again, I saw a deer farmer loaded for bear with a Mini 30 and several banana mags arrive at speed. He'd heard a helicopter and decided someone was making off with his venison. He was wrong, it was the rescue helicopter picking up an injured motorcyclist. I don't know if he felt silly, he certainly looked silly.

[GrayWolf]

define "assault weapons"



interesting choice.
unwieldly. .

Not really 'interesting', a very good choice!
in a 'scenario' someone armed with a shotgun in close quarters is the first target to 'remove'... they are more deadly, and even if the person is 'shaky' or hurried, just firing them in your general direction has a substantially higher chance of hitting, than a single bullet.
Remember there is a HUGE difference between practising on a target and actually shooting a person.... think 90% would get 'shaky'.

[bogan]

You still banging on about that? You are wrong. If a back country farmer has say twenty goats come out of the bush, ideally he'd like to shoot all twenty before they can get back to the bush. Very hard to do that with a bolt action. I've met a farmer with a Simonov (and yes, it was a Simonov not a Norinco), others have a Ruger or other semi automatic for just that purpose.

Yet, there remains a difference between 'ideally' or 'like to', and 'need'. That one is also clearly a question of scale, not absolutes...


Then again, I saw a deer farmer loaded for bear with a Mini 30 and several banana mags arrive at speed. He'd heard a helicopter and decided someone was making off with his venison. He was wrong, it was the rescue helicopter picking up an injured motorcyclist. I don't know if he felt silly, he certainly looked silly.

Good thing he didn't shoot first and ask questions later then :yes:

[Akzle]

Not really.

324121

and how much practice have you had unloading 3" shells from a pisol grip 20"?

[Akzle]

Not really 'interesting', a very good choice!
in a 'scenario' someone armed with a shotgun in close quarters is the first target to 'remove'... they are more deadly, and even if the person is 'shaky' or hurried, just firing them in your general direction has a substantially higher chance of hitting, than a single bullet.
Remember there is a HUGE difference between practising on a target and actually shooting a person.... think 90% would get 'shaky'.

how big is your lounge that a 12ga column of shot is going to arrive as anything other than basically a 50 cal slug? at the ranges we're talking you'd need a blunderbus to get any kind of pattern.

[Crasherfromwayback]

and how much practice have you had unloading 3" shells from a pisol grip 20"?

None. But I've taken a liking to the look of it! The 12 Gauges I've used, would all be cumbersome indoors. Whilst I realise they're outdated and hardly ever used now, my fav is a side by side. Had a sore face the day after cracking off over 200 rounds shooting clays though I must say.

[Brian d marge]

60 # samick sage, field points today, and a quiver of carbon hunt tech arrows ....and a new pair of contact lenses .... Bring it on baby ...

sent for a divine source

[Crasherfromwayback]

and how much practice have you had unloading 3" shells from a pisol grip 20"?

This better?324122

[jasonu]

This better?324122

Still looks like a wrist buster.
Have you shot a 12ga slugger shell? That is REALLY unpleasant.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Still looks like a wrist buster.
Have you shot a 12ga slugger shell? That is REALLY unpleasant.

Nah. But I've let off both barrels of a side by side at the same time. Pretty big boom.

[scumdog]

Still looks like a wrist buster.
Have you shot a 12ga slugger shell? That is REALLY unpleasant.

Yep - and worse if you're in the prone position...ouch!

[Akzle]

None. But I've taken a liking to the look of it! The 12 Gauges I've used, would all be cumbersome indoors. Whilst I realise they're outdated and hardly ever used now, my fav is a side by side. Had a sore face the day after cracking off over 200 rounds shooting clays though I must say.

sbs ftw!!

yupyup, me mate had a twin hammer single trigger jobby, knocked a few people on their asses that one did.

the business end of a 12 is scary enough, but if it comes to shooting in cq, it wouldnt be my choice, for pointability, controlability and over penetration (unless you're shooting frangibles which is probably illegal, or salt) and reload speed.
meow, I can unload a tube about as fast as it can be racked (and old loose pumpies are great for this) from the shoulder and put them on target, but pistol grips completely change the handling, and twin pistolgrips even worse as they want to go sideways on your reloads. no shooting from the hip with that one either.

but id rather have a handgun with 15-20 up it that moves as fast as my arm and dishes out lead quicker than I think.

[Akzle]

Still looks like a wrist buster.
Have you shot a 12ga slugger shell? That is REALLY unpleasant.

only an absolute fucking muppet would use solids for home d.

[jasonu]

only an absolute fucking muppet would use solids for home d.

Plinking use only.

[scumdog]

only an absolute fucking muppet would use solids for home d.

Best for rats and cats at the tip.

[Big Dog]

but id rather have a handgun with 15-20 up it that moves as fast as my arm and dishes out lead quicker than I think.

Is that you Oscar?

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[Akzle]

Is that you Oscar?

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

you cut me deep bru

[Big Dog]

you cut me deep bru
The hits just keep coming. Bang bang, bang bang.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[Katman]

Unarmed man shot five times, while complying with police instructions, by an officer who had etched "You're fucked" onto his gun.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/body-cam-video-released-cop-murdered-innocent-unarmed-man-begged-life/

[oldrider]

Unarmed man shot five times, while complying with police instructions, by an officer who had etched "You're fucked" onto his gun.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/body-cam-video-released-cop-murdered-innocent-unarmed-man-begged-life/

Doesn't every room have a telephone - they could have called - hello, is there a Daniel Shaver there? - :Oops: - not any more! :rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

Unarmed man shot five times, while complying with police instructions, by an officer who had etched "You're fucked" onto his gun.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/body-cam-video-released-cop-murdered-innocent-unarmed-man-begged-life/

What a lovely piece of Rhetoric that contradicts itself.

[Katman]

What a lovely piece of Rhetoric that contradicts itself.

How so?

:scratch:

[Akzle]

that's a bit like that disabled old lady shot in her bed, because "she took up a more threatening position" (in her bed)(a disabled, old, lady)


here's a few more lulz from americas finest:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting


http://ijr.com/2014/02/115178-police-shoot-kill-80-year-old-man-bed/

[TheDemonLord]

How so?

:scratch:

It starts off saying that he's unarmed, then confirms that he had an Air rifle in the room (although not on his person when he was shot)

Then it goes off about how the video is redacted and obviously a coverup, then confirms the actual reason it wasn't released in full: It's evidence in an ongoing trial.

The Rhetoric is slathered on thick about how it was the Government that murdered in cold blood etc.

There is also factual errors - the article refers to the AR-15 used as "AR-15 police rifle", when in fact it was the Officers' personal weapon.

Now - all that aside, from reading other sources (that aren't so biased) - it does seem that although the Victim kept reaching for his waistband whilst crawling towards the officers (which was a bad move on his part), the Officer in question appears to be at fault and there are also questions to be raised as to what the Officers mental state is/was and should someone with similar mental states:

A: Be a Police Officer
B: Be allowed access to semi-auto rifles.

For the record - I believe the answer to both those questions to be a resounding 'Fuck No'.

Edit:

I'd also go on the record and suggest that the fact that this person WAS a Police officer points to some very fundamental issues with the US Law Enforcement community.

On an interesting aside - a Cop kills a white person and there is no rioting, no protest marches etc.

[Katman]

It starts off saying that he's unarmed, then confirms that he had an Air rifle in the room (although not on his person when he was shot)

Your autism knows no bounds.

[TheDemonLord]

Your autism knows no bounds.

It's funny, that even though essentially I'm agreeing with you that the cop is in the wrong and it's suggests a lack of appropriate screening for officers, you still manage to be a retarded Fuckwit (and also avoid discussing any issues like an adult).

[Katman]

It's funny, that even though essentially I'm agreeing with you that the cop is in the wrong and it's suggests a lack of appropriate screening for officers, you still manage to be a retarded Fuckwit (and also avoid discussing any issues like an adult).

Post #359 suggests you're the retarded fuckwit.

[TheDemonLord]

Post #359 suggests you're the retarded fuckwit.

As opposed to nearly all your posts that prove that you're a Fuckwit

[Brian d marge]

Tis all normal in the hunger games society

sent for a divine source

[scumdog]

What a lovely piece of Rhetoric that contradicts itself.

You expected anything better???<_<

[Banditbandit]

You expected anything better???<_<

Some people do have high expectations - and even continue to hod them even though they are proved to be unfulfilled and disappointed .. don't ask me why ..

[TheDemonLord]

Some people do have high expectations - and even continue to hod them even though they are proved to be unfulfilled and disappointed .. don't ask me why ..

For me it's better than the alternative.

[Banditbandit]

For me it's better than the alternative.

There are many alternatives ..,. which one are you referring to?

[TheDemonLord]

There are many alternatives ..,. which one are you referring to?

Lowering ones standards to avoid disappointment.

[Banditbandit]

Lowering ones standards to avoid disappointment.

Not participating also avoids disappointment - and avoids lowering standards ..

[TheDemonLord]

Not participating also avoids disappointment - and avoids lowering standards ..

All that Evil requires to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing

[Banditbandit]

All that Evil requires to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing

If there is no God, then there is no good and no evil - there are only actions and consequences

Good and evil are human judgements.

[Swoop]

And not make them any more restrictive:no:

Yeah. Like the stupidity that is brewing. There's going to be some massive non-compliance around...

[TheDemonLord]

If there is no God, then there is no good and no evil - there are only actions and consequences

Good and evil are human judgements.

I see you have your pedant hat on, it looks quite new, not nearly as well worn as mine...

Actions have consequences - but so to do inactions - which is what that quote refers to.

[Banditbandit]

I see you have your pedant hat on, it looks quite new, not nearly as well worn as mine...

Actions have consequences - but so to do inactions - which is what that quote refers to.

Yes - obviously .. I was using Nihilist philosophy for amusement ... Unfortunately, Philosophy does tend to bring out the pedant in me ... it goes with marking student essays ... but that still doesn't mean I am serious ...

[Brian d marge]

Them the one in the big Lebowski?

sent for a divine source