AA not happy we're getting off speed camera fines.

[onearmedbandit]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/88287604/aa-calls-for-speed-camera-changes-to-stop-motorcyclists-having-free-ride

Well we've never been popular with that organisation from memory. Doesn't look anything will be done about it but more negative press for us I guess.

[Mike.Gayner]

The AA can honestly go fuck themselves with an iron rod.

This is a group which is purports to stand up for motorists rights, which is the opposite of what they're doing here. Of course their anti-motorcycle stance is well established so this is fairly predictable.

[Jeff Sichoe]

i'd rather this than GPS monitoring on all MC's...

[Digitdion]

Yes, the AA are anti motorbikes for sure. The problem us bikers have is a attitude problem. The general attitude out there towards motorcyclists is we are the bad guys. If you get killed on a push bike, it's very sad. If a motorcyclist gets killed it was probably his fault. The irony is whilst motorcyclist pay plenty to be able to ride on the ride, we get very little back. Whereas cyclists pay nothing directly to use the road, but large amounts of money is spent on them.

[EJK]

If they're not being caught for speeding, that means a certain group of riders will think they can get away with speeding or driving at an inappropriate speed, and that is concerning for road safety.

Looks like Cassina wrote it.

[Old Steve]

In Queensland sped cameras could only photograph from behind because some politician was caught away with his secretary. Also, if a flash was used, it wouldn't blind the driver. So motorbikes weren't exempt.

[Parlane]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics

The quote that stood out for me was regarding the increase in fatalities.

<pre>Motorcyclist deaths had increased in recent years, from 44 in 2012 to 50 in 2016, and police remained committed to promoting safe driving, he said.</pre>

So that's a 13.6% increase over 4 years. // 50/44 = 1.13636363636

Now I wonder how many people had motorbikes in 2012 vs 2016.

2012:
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/motor-vehicle-registration-statistics/docs/2012.pdf (page 56 of pdf, or printed pg54 )

<b>Motorcycles 45,449</b>

Now let's look at 2016:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/new-zealand-motor-vehicle-register-statistics/national-vehicle-fleet-status/ (I grabbed the 30th of June 2016 for better comparison)

<b>Motorcycle 136,772</b>


136,772/45,449 = 3.00935114084

A 200.9% increase in registered motorbikes.

If ownership of motorbikes correlated with fatalities then we should expected 132 fatalities a year. (44 * 3.00935114084 = 132.4)

So in fact motorcycle deaths have decreased dramatically! 37% reduction in fatalities since 2012 if accounting for increase in motorcycle usage.


Now of course these numbers include motorbikes on rego hold. Don't know where to get the numbers to exclude these. So increases/decreases will be skewed by those.

[Paul in NZ]

As I mentioned in the other thread...

The AA has never liked motorcycles despite the majority of riders also having cars and in some cases - used to be AA members. I was a member for decades - then the AA moved from being an organisation that advocated for its members and road users in general to being an insurance company... I also had professional dealings with them and found them the worst people I have ever dealt with...

I'm no longer a member and refuse to touch any product or service that goes near them. I suggest you do the same...

I also say similar everytime some wanker asks me if I have an AA card...

[Voltaire]

I was very glad to have an AA Plus Membership when I broke down in Timaru on the way back from the Burt Munro.
AA Contractor promptly turned up, collected the bike and took to their workshop, the AA arranged for it to be shipped to Auckland and put me up in a motel for the night, Contractor dropped me off.
Next day I hung around at their workshop drinking coffee and they dropped me in town.:2thumbsuphi

That lot cost them about $800.00, bus to ChCh airport and flight I paid for.

Also my Sons car clutch went on Boxing day and they had it towed back to my place in an hour.

As for speeding, there was a lot of that all the way down the West Coast and I saw some pretty interesting overtaking by groups of bikes.
If I had been in a car driving down the coast my impressions of motorcyclists would have been not particularly positive.

But anyway as you all were, back to denial of stats and blaming others :lol:

[jasonu]

Looks like Cassina wrote it.

Could be a conspiracy....Katman!!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/88287604/aa-calls-for-speed-camera-changes-to-stop-motorcyclists-having-free-ride

Well we've never been popular with that organisation from memory. Doesn't look anything will be done about it but more negative press for us I guess.

I'll chip in $100 for a kickstarter for Anonymous to DDOS them back to the dark ages if that helps. FUCK THE AA

[Bass]

Yes, the AA are anti motorbikes for sure. The problem us bikers have is a attitude problem. The general attitude out there towards motorcyclists is we are the bad guys. If you get killed on a push bike, it's very sad. If a motorcyclist gets killed it was probably his fault. .

Thing is, the data very firmly indicates that when a motorcyclist gets killed, it probably was their own fault. Further, in recent years the proportion of fatals with the rider having the major portion of the blame, is increasing.

[Murray]

Thing is, the data very firmly indicates that when a motorcyclist gets killed, it probably was their own fault.

Data and probably don't mix:weird::weird:

[Crasherfromwayback]

TV3 got hold of me today regarding this. Rather not have to front the camera gain. But some of the stats here will certainly help if I do. Ta for that.

[Digitdion]

Thing is, the data very firmly indicates that when a motorcyclist gets killed, it probably was their own fault. Further, in recent years the proportion of fatals with the rider having the major portion of the blame, is increasing.

What Data? The data I have seen , appears to be very selective. Selective as it can only be interpreted as negative about bikers.

[Voltaire]

TV3 got hold of me today regarding this. Rather not have to front the camera gain. But some of the stats here will certainly help if I do. Ta for that.

But they usually get NZ's top motoring expert....was Clive Matthew-Wilson unavailable?

You'll need a Hyphen.

Crasher-from- way- back.
:msn-wink:

[Crasherfromwayback]

But they usually get NZ's top motoring expert....was Clive Matthew-Wilson unavailable?

You'll need a Hyphen.

Crasher-from- way- back.
:msn-wink:

How 'bout Pete Fucking McDonald? :innocent:

[HenryDorsetCase]

But they usually get NZ's top motoring expert....was Clive Matthew-Wilson unavailable?

You'll need a Hyphen.

Crasher-from- way- back.
:msn-wink:

LOLOL yes.

[jasonu]

TV3 got hold of me today regarding this. Rather not have to front the camera gain. But some of the stats here will certainly help if I do. Ta for that.

Ya gonna go on TV and quote data from Kiwi Biker:shit:....Be sure to post the link to that one.:laugh:

[WNJ]

My bike not fast enough to go over 104 ;)

[trufflebutter]

That would be the mid life crisis guys being more at fault. Maybe someone needs to come up with an alternate cure for a midlife crisis than motorcycling.

Would a sex change be viewed as too extreme?

[Akzle]

I thought they would photograph from behind here too which means if you were on a bike and not on the side of the road with the camera, only then you would get away.

please kill yourself. directly.

[HenryDorsetCase]

My bike not fast enough to go over 104 ;)

I hit the end of the motorway onramp merge lane at 180kph this morning. IT WAS FUCKING GLORIOUS.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That would be the mid life crisis guys being more at fault. Maybe someone needs to come up with an alternate cure for a midlife crisis than motorcycling.

If I was French I'd have a mistress. Feel free to submit your CV.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Maybe they see KB as a source of motorcycle info of interest and may approach others from this site whom they like their coments also.

I wish someone would ask me. I am fucking FASCINATING

[Bassmatt]

You must like paying full price for petrol and the cost of any breakdowns then.


That would be the mid life crisis guys being more at fault. Maybe someone needs to come up with an alternate cure for a midlife crisis than motorcycling.


I thought they would photograph from behind here too which means if you were on a bike and not on the side of the road with the camera, only then you would get away.


Maybe they see KB as a source of motorcycle info of interest and may approach others from this site whom they like their coments also.

I'm a fairly easy going, live and let live kind of guy, happy to read a diverse range of opinions but fuck I can't take any more of this. I'd fucking ban her if it was up to me.

I've never put anyone on ignore before, here or any other forum or social media, but its onto ignore for you Cassina.

Oh and fuck the A.A

[old slider]

That would be the mid life crisis guys being more at fault. Maybe someone needs to come up with an alternate cure for a midlife crisis than motorcycling.


What age does this thing called Mid life crisis arrive? my biggest crisis arrived when still young with a pregnant wife, two other little fellas and a mortgage. Most of the grey haired old buggers riding around probably have more riding miles under their extended belt buckles than many younger riders.

[Akzle]

I wish someone would ask me. I am fucking FASCINATING

fuck up you lawyerjewcunt

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ya gonna go on TV and quote data from Kiwi Biker:shit:....Be sure to post the link to that one.:laugh:

Dodged that bullet. Carl the cheeky bastard from Motorad sent them my way. I sent them back.

[WNJ]

I hit the end of the motorway onramp merge lane at 180kph this morning. IT WAS FUCKING GLORIOUS.

Shhhh just quietly :shutup:

[pritch]

I was very glad to have an AA Plus Membership when I broke down in Timaru on the way back from the Burt Munro.
AA Contractor promptly turned up, collected the bike and took to their workshop, the AA arranged for it to be shipped to Auckland and put me up in a motel for the night,

I also have AA Plus membership as do others on KB. This twat Stockdale should stick to what he knows - whatever that is.

A while back the AA were sending me questionaires and I was silly enough to respond to some of them. In one I wrote a comment about how motorcyclist were not the enemy of the AA, many motorcyclist were AA members. I guess the message didn't get through.

[FJRider]

What age does this thing called Mid life crisis arrive? my biggest crisis arrived when still young with a pregnant wife, two other little fellas and a mortgage. Most of the grey haired old buggers riding around probably have more riding miles under their extended belt buckles than many younger riders.

How is it possible to die during a mid life crisis ... ??? :scratch: You die in an end of life crisis ... surely ... :pinch:

[old slider]

https://www.facebook.com/chipsmovie/?hc_ref=SEARCH

[caspernz]

I hit the end of the motorway onramp merge lane at 180kph this morning. IT WAS FUCKING GLORIOUS.

Stuck in second gear huh? Hate it when that happens...:killingme

[Berries]

How 'bout Pete Fucking McDonald? :innocent:
He said hyphen not hymen you twat.

:shake:

[Crasherfromwayback]

He said hyphen not hymen you twat.

:shake:

LOl. Fair call!

[Berries]

I don't see anywhere in the story where it says riders are actually getting away with it, no numbers, no nothing. We all know the guy in a mobile camera van has a camera and will take a photo as you go past. Also pretty certain that if the same bike and rider are photographed front on from the same fixed camera several times taking the piss then they aren't just going to throw the photos away and move on. They will be looking for said bike and rider quite hard.

It's all BS from the AA. Wonder why they brought that up?

[Akzle]

. I am in the MLC age group myself but am not one as I have never given up riding.

yet you've crashed how many times and why?

[george formby]

I don't see anywhere in the story where it says riders are actually getting away with it, no numbers, no nothing. We all know the guy in a mobile camera van has a camera and will take a photo as you go past. Also pretty certain that if the same bike and rider are photographed front on from the same fixed camera several times taking the piss then they aren't just going to throw the photos away and move on. They will be looking for said bike and rider quite hard.

It's all BS from the AA. Wonder why they brought that up?

The AA bloke spouting that waffle probably drives a classic English car with a tartan rug on the rear shelf and no air con. The unfairness to his member he speaks of is no doubt his bloated carcass dripping sweat in creeping traffic with bikes whipping past freely.

The article and suggestion are utter bollocks.

Utter, utter bollocks, no less.

[WristTwister]

i'd rather this than GPS monitoring on all MC's...

In the UK they've been successful fining road users with speed averages using the SPECS system (https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/specs.htm), so say you pass point A, if you're going the speed limit you should not pass Point B for another 2 minutes. If you do, KA-CHING! Fine.

[Scuba_Steve]

Just remember people, removal of a numberplate is only a screwdriver away ;)

[MD]

Dodged that bullet. Carl the cheeky bastard from Motorad sent them my way. I sent them back.
Brendon put me in front of the ..rather attractive TV3 Lady but my dribble didn't make the final cut.

I agreed riders should not get away with it, the law is equal to everybody. Just that with only 3% of our road fleet being bikes, and with only a small portion of that 3% probably speeding passed cameras, the effort and use of Police resources to chase these few doesn't justify the public benefit. Far better good would be done if Police targeted phone use while driving, which is a lot more dangerous and prevalent. Thousands of drivers use phones every hour in NZ, while only a handful of riders in any given day would get off a speed camera. I also said technology will catch up soon with more rear facing cameras.

I might send a complaint to the AA though for abusing my subscription with this prejudice behaviour.

EDIT- I sent a scathing message to AA objecting to Mark Stockdale abusing my subscription for his personal crusade and prejudice against a small minority of road users.

[russd7]

this reminds me of a club ride i was on back when i was a member of the whitestone touring club, we were on a ride to methven (infamously called the methven race), we were cruising through timaru in a group and there was a speed camera sitting on the oppisite side of the road at the north end before the little hill over to washdyke. noone really took much notice until the next club night and one of the members came in bitching and moaning about getting a ticket and wanting to know who else got tickets so we could dispute it as a group, seems he was the only one, funny as hell as he was only on a skirtster with a peanut tank, only place he could have got a ticket.

must have been feeling the pressure to keep up in the middle of the group

[FJRider]

. I also said technology will catch up soon with more rear facing cameras.



It's already here ... :calm:


http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/10431894/Hundreds-caught-by-new-speed-camera

[skippa1]

AA sent a vehicle to pick me and my bike up in the middle of Arthurs Pass when I had a big cut in the rear tyre. It was helpful....Just sayin

[russd7]

AA sent a vehicle to pick me and my bike up in the middle of Arthurs Pass when I had a big cut in the rear tyre. It was helpful....Just sayin

i have been picked up in the middle of the waioeka gorge on xmas eve, had to leave the wife with the bike and hitched out to opotiki, and that was the third time picked up in two days, and we finally found the problem, a broken wire in the altenator, thankfully they are easy to get at on the wing

[Crasherfromwayback]

Brendon put me in front of the ..rather attractive TV3 Lady but my dribble didn't make the final cut.

r.

Everything changes when you have a TV camera jammed in your face eh!

[george formby]

Brendon put me in front of the ..rather attractive TV3 Lady but my dribble didn't make the final cut.

I agreed riders should not get away with it, the law is equal to everybody. Just that with only 3% of our road fleet being bikes, and with only a small portion of that 3% probably speeding passed cameras, the effort and use of Police resources to chase these few doesn't justify the public benefit.


I posted pretty much the same thing on stuff. The reasoning is nonesense

[WristTwister]

It's already here ... :calm:


http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/10431894/Hundreds-caught-by-new-speed-camera

Grrr... what bugs me about that camera is that people will brake just as they near the camera zone then once they're in the clear they speed up to 100~

[Daffyd]

They have front plates in India, but across the front as opposed to the way they used to be in NZ. Bloody ugly 'cos they have lots of digits; could be useful as crash bars.

[R650R]

I was very glad to have .....

Yep 100% agree, think of it as towing insurance if you breakdown away somewhere....


Back to thread.... I suspect Mark Stockdale prob just got himself some late Christmas mail from the 4 k tolerance period.... and maybe on same day some bikes snotted past him and hes pissed knowing the camera might not have got them....

Jesus Christ he must have never heard of lawn mower choke cables and spring mounted plates......
Really if it was about safety we should have bellypan mounted plates! For wheelies and extreme cornering lol

[Berries]

It's already here ... :calm:


http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/10431894/Hundreds-caught-by-new-speed-camera
Well not quite. Those cameras are not much better than what we already had. They are digital rather than film and they have radar rather than loops cut in to the road. They can still only take photos in one direction so make no difference to the AA. The main bonus is that they are so expensive they can't afford to roll them out around the country so at the moment most fixed camera sites are out of action.

Now point to point cameras as referenced by the unicorn are a different kettle of bananas. They have had them in my home town for years. I heard a rumour once, no idea if it was true, that some were actually set to take in to consideration congestion, so even if you went from point A to point B in a time that equalled the speed limit you would get a ticket because the congestion meant you must have had to exceed the speed limit somewhere. They still only face in one direction though so bikes are still 'exempt' heading one way. Some years ago there was clamour for forward facing identification for bikes in the UK but it never happened. In the digital age however you don't need a full size number plate ruining the lines or being a hazard to pedestrians, a simple barcode on the screen or headlight is all they need. I am sure it will come if the AA keep shouting and we keep killing ourselves.

Luckily we have miles of road and relatively few speed cameras so it hardly matters. I would say fuck the AA but the first A is for Automobile so it really just does what it says on the tin.

[willytheekid]

Ahhh Mr Mark Stockdale....Mark, marky...mark! mark!...:wait:

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/3546919.jpg

:laugh:

[roogazza]

Just remember people, removal of a numberplate is only a screwdriver away ;)
old school scuba heh heh. easy peezy. no number ,no problem .

[Voltaire]

AA Members have and organisation the can moan to and some group clout.....motorcycle riders have KB to bleat on :clap:

When they put the by pass in past Orewa the AA moaned it was unfair that bikes were free ( from memory) and TPTB caved in

and put a charge on it.

My personal protest was to never use the tunnel depriving the Govt of several dollars per year.

I also wrote to the AA complaining about their anti motorcycle stance and cancelled getting their propaganda magazine....that

showed them.

On the subject of number plates those sideways mounted ones and ones stuck in front of the back wheel don't look cool, they look stupid, as generally are the riders of such bikes.

[FJRider]

I am in the MLC age group myself but am not one as I have never given up riding.

We ask that you reconsider ... for your (and our) own safety .. :shifty:

[granstar]

On the subject of number plates those sideways mounted ones and ones stuck in front of the back wheel don't look cool, they look stupid, as generally are the riders of such bikes.[/QUOTE]


The implications of that assertion uncomplimentary where solidarity counts https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/782/23539671129_108a5ddf17_b.jpg

[FJRider]

Its actually safer to not give up if you look at info about returning MLC riders and the number that come to grief.

I'll compromise ... :shifty: I'll keep requesting you to give up riding ... because it will be safer for us ... :yes:

[Luckylegs]

Its actually safer to not give up if you look at info about returning MLC riders and the number that come to grief.

He suggested you give up! No mention of starting again.... EVER!!!

[Paul in NZ]

You must like paying full price for petrol and the cost of any breakdowns then.

Yeah I have these things called principles.... You know, I don't support scummy lying cheating organizations that tried to rip me off and steal my work... PLUS State insurance offers road side assistance as does my local garage.. I don't need the pricks

[BMWST?]

How 'bout Pete Fucking McDonald? :innocent:

on no account refer to your self using your kb moniker!

[Ocean1]

In the UK they've been successful fining road users with speed averages using the SPECS system (https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/specs.htm), so say you pass point A, if you're going the speed limit you should not pass Point B for another 2 minutes. If you do, KA-CHING! Fine.

You can get pinged for doing well less than the theoretical average speed too, on the basis that there's corners and intersections involved which require lower speeds. Somehow I'm not OK with the thought of getting pinged on the basis of some probability I've exceeded the speed limit. Seems it'd come just a little upstream from getting pinged because you were in the neighbourhood and might have robbed the off-licence.

[Berries]

The Southland Times appear to have jumped on the bandwagon as well - http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/88401032/anonymity-has-its-dangers-for-bikers. Still no mention of whether it is actually a problem with a gazillion riders each week riding towards a speed camera at 1,000 km/h on the back wheel while giving the finger.




Must just be me........................

[Voltaire]

The Southland Times appear to have jumped on the bandwagon as well - http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/88401032/anonymity-has-its-dangers-for-bikers. Still no mention of whether it is actually a problem with a gazillion riders each week riding towards a speed camera at 1,000 km/h on the back wheel while giving the finger.




Must just be me........................

They seem pretty pleased to see them for the Burt Monroe Week. Suggest the writer of article visits the campground and gathers some opinions :innocent:
The much maligned ACC had a tent at the campground and were giving out freebees like rider training, rider information and so on, at least they are doing something and not just sensationalist articles like the two recycle bin fillers mentioned.

[Scuba_Steve]

I still can't beleive there's people out there that are so retarded they think the speed scam is there to do anything other than bring in that cash moneys

[Voltaire]

Suitable bike plates are available if they do go with front plates.:innocent:
http://api.kiwiplates.nz/api//image/68/fu2aa/3/4/max/1200

http://api.kiwiplates.nz/api//image/68/Ih8aa/3/4/max/1200

probably others....http://www.kiwiplates.nz/get-a-plate?gclid=CjwKEAiA2OzDBRCdqIyIqYaaqQoSJABeJZdiOI NEssIy1al0tJvjBpwP8RDo42W7Sj3O99RApYvmlRoCq2fw_wcB

[trufflebutter]

And for your partners vehicle.

[Katman]

Now of course these numbers include motorbikes on rego hold. Don't know where to get the numbers to exclude these. So increases/decreases will be skewed by those.

The numbers also fail to account for multi-bike ownership.

[scumdog]

Just remember people, removal of a numberplate is only a screwdriver away ;)

Creative use of black insulation tape is another idea - so I have been told...:shutup::whistle:

[Quiltzig]

The AA can honestly go fuck themselves with an iron rod.

This is a group which is purports to stand up for motorists rights, which is the opposite of what they're doing here. Of course their anti-motorcycle stance is well established so this is fairly predictable.

I agree - I was rightly pissed off to see an AA spokesman branding all motorcyclists in this way. I ride responsibly and am a member of IAM where we teach safe and responsible riding. It is a comment typical of uneducated office bound types who have probably never ridden a motorbike in their lives. As an AA member for many decades, I will be writing a letter of complaint to the AA.

[old slider]

Reading through all these posts and I find the most interesting statistic is the 200+ % increase in the number of riders on the road since 2012, This alone shows there has been a massive decrease in fatalities using percentages.

Post #7 right near the start.

[Katman]

Reading through all these posts and I find the most interesting statistic is the 200+ % increase in the number of riders on the road since 2012, This alone shows there has been a massive decrease in fatalities using percentages.

Post #7 right near the start.

And as I've pointed out, the increase is in bikes registered - not the number of riders.

It doesn't account for multi-bike ownership.

[Zedder]

AA Members have and organisation the can moan to and some group clout.....motorcycle riders have KB to bleat on :clap:

When they put the by pass in past Orewa the AA moaned it was unfair that bikes were free ( from memory) and TPTB caved in

and put a charge on it.

My personal protest was to never use the tunnel depriving the Govt of several dollars per year.

I also wrote to the AA complaining about their anti motorcycle stance and cancelled getting their propaganda magazine....that

showed them.

On the subject of number plates those sideways mounted ones and ones stuck in front of the back wheel don't look cool, they look stupid, as generally are the riders of such bikes.


Yep, it was the AA-defacto-Gubbermint-department who did the moan about it. Going by that, their general attitude and Parlane's post on increased motorbike registration figures, they probably see the loss of potential revenue from speeding tickets and just can't let it go.

[old slider]

And as I've pointed out, the increase is in bikes registered - not the number of riders.

It doesn't account for multi-bike ownership.


Really!!! so the figures for 2012 is showing the number of riders? or is it bikes registered? and the 2016 figure is just showing an extra 91,323 more bikes have been registered?

[pritch]

When this thread was created I thought I'd fire off an angry email to the AA, since I am a member after all. Sometimes the anger doesn't last and good intentions, like a baby crying in church, should be carried out immediately. This time though the residual annoyance was enough to do the trick. Even had to edit the email a bit. So the deed is done.

It probably wouldn't hurt if the others hereabout who are AA members also expressed their disapproval to the AA? Politicians generally understand that every angry letter they get represents a number of other people who were angry but didn't write. It may be doubtful that the AA are equally aware of this.

[Zedder]

When this thread was created I thought I'd fire off an angry email to the AA, since I am a member after all. Sometimes the anger doesn't last and good intentions, like a baby crying in church, should be carried out immediately. This time though the residual annoyance was enough to do the trick. Even had to edit the email a bit. So the deed is done.

It probably wouldn't hurt if the others hereabout who are AA members also expressed their disapproval to the AA? Politicians generally understand that every angry letter they get represents a number of other people who were angry but didn't write. It may be doubtful that the AA are equally aware of this.


Ya don't even have to be an AA member to complain, it could be along the lines of "We were going to join up, but due to your crap attitude to motorcyclists we have decided not to".

[riffer]

The problem is if speed limits were not policed the roads would be far more deadly than they are.

You can't prove that. In the only evidence I can find of this very situation (Northern Territory, Australia) the absolute opposite occurred.

[jasonu]

I agree - I was rightly pissed off to see an AA spokesman branding all motorcyclists in this way. I ride responsibly and am a member of IAM where we teach safe and responsible riding. It is a comment typical of uneducated office bound types who have probably never ridden a motorbike in their lives. As an AA member for many decades, I will be writing a letter of complaint to the AA.

Does the IAM have any WOF inspector members?

[WristTwister]

:Police:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/88352481/police-plan-for-35-new-cameras-to-snap-speeding-drivers-in-national-expansion

[Moi]

:Police:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/88352481/police-plan-for-35-new-cameras-to-snap-speeding-drivers-in-national-expansion

Where in the article does it say that Wellington is getting 35 more speed cameras?

[pritch]

Next time Garmin asks if I want to purchase the safety camera updates maybe I'd better consider paying up. I wonder if the new cameras will be placed in "dangerous spots" on a hill like the one in the Ngauranga Gorge?

[russd7]

They seem pretty pleased to see them for the Burt Monroe Week. Suggest the writer of article visits the campground and gathers some opinions :innocent:
The much maligned ACC had a tent at the campground and were giving out freebees like rider training, rider information and so on, at least they are doing something and not just sensationalist articles like the two recycle bin fillers mentioned.

keep in mind that this is the souland times which is owned and operated by media works and is printed in dunedin, im not even sure that the editor is in southland. even the effen radio has jumped on the bandwagon, i beieve that it has been chucked up as a smoke screen to give people something to bitch about and get their minds off the tourist drivers especially coming up to the chinese new year when there is going to be an influx of them

[Zedder]

You can't prove that. In the only evidence I can find of this very situation (Northern Territory, Australia) the absolute opposite occurred.


Agreed. And this study found evidence to suggest issuing speeding tickets has limited effect as a deterrent: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17366333

[Scuba_Steve]

Creative use of black insulation tape is another idea - so I have been told...:shutup::whistle:
Is that how you Rodders do it :msn-wink:

The problem is if speed limits were not policed the roads would be far more deadly than they are.
And yet there's not a single bit of evidence to back that up
if speed limits weren't "policed" it would free the cops to work on road safety like dangerous driving or even catch crimminals, it would have a friendlier relation between public & police, it'd probably have less police & ambo attacked & disrespected, & evidence suggests the roads would have less crashes & less people dying on them

[FJRider]

Nobody (in officialdom) has mentioned what % of motorcyclists (AND cars) are getting off fines due to lack of ability to read their plates. Or identify the riders/drivers ... ;)

[onearmedbandit]

Is that how you Rodders do it :msn-wink:

And yet there's not a single bit of evidence to back that up
if speed limits weren't "policed" it would free the cops to work on road safety like dangerous driving or even catch crimminals, it would have a friendlier relation between public & police, it'd probably have less police & ambo attacked & disrespected, & evidence suggests the roads would have less crashes & less people dying on them

I'm old enough to remember when the MoT were hated and the police were respected.

[pritch]

I had my impressions reinforced over the break. People try to overtake at the minimum possible speed which means increased exposure to danger for them and increased frustration for those behind them. In my opinion the Police hierarchy are reponsible for killing people with their simple minded and inappropriate focus on speed.

[russd7]

I'm old enough to remember when the MoT were hated and the police were respected.

yup, me too.
first time i was ever breath tested was by the police, it was just before they were merged, thank fuck they couldn't read it proper so they just took my keys off me and i had to pick them up in the morning. ahhh them were the days

[FJRider]

Agreed. And this study found evidence to suggest issuing speeding tickets has limited effect as a deterrent: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17366333

This a little closer to home ...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/75594552/Police-offer-no-apologies-for-Wellingtons-1m-plus-speed-cameras

And the police get accused of taking money off those that could least afford it (repeatedly [ad-nauseam] it would seem) ... over a million dollars worth of tickets in nine months. And this article is a year old ...

[old slider]

I had my impressions reinforced over the break. People try to overtake at the minimum possible speed which means increased exposure to danger for them and increased frustration for those behind them. In my opinion the Police hierarchy are reponsible for killing people with their simple minded and inappropriate focus on speed.


Exactly, I think there are plenty more who agree..

[granstar]

Exactly, I think there are plenty more who agree..

Valid point on a valid point, surely safer to increase speed get out and past and back in safely than to leave yourself vulnerable by crawling past. If you haven't the power to pass you shouldn't, if you cannot pass safely leaving plenty of space for any oncoming you shouldn't, often see many think they can make with poor judgement and just do, one day they won't. A lot to be said about reading ahead and knowing what your bike is capable of.
Rarely pass on my old Triumph in case it starts to fall apart half way through the pass :facepalm:

[FJRider]

I had my impressions reinforced over the break. People try to overtake at the minimum possible speed which means increased exposure to danger for them and increased frustration for those behind them. In my opinion the Police hierarchy are reponsible for killing people with their simple minded and inappropriate focus on speed.

Perhaps they believe that if they cannot overtake safely without exceeding the posted speed limit ... they stay safely in their own lane.

In my opinion ... it is the people with the single minded (some may say inappropriate) focus on being in front ... is killing themselves ... and others.

[pritch]

Perhaps they believe that if they cannot overtake safely without exceeding the posted speed limit ... they stay safely in their own lane.


That wouldn't be a problem, or at least it'd be a different problem. It's the ones who either use up the whole passing lane because they won't speed up, or more importantly the ones who overtake at minimum speed where there is no passing lane. It's called the wrong side of the road for a reason, and the less time spent there the better generally speaking. And no I'm not suggesting you need to do 180kph every time.
(Dunno why, that 180 just popped into my head.) :innocent:

Some respected riding texts counsel briefly exceeding the speed limit to execute a quick overtake. They also mention that it would be a waste of time trying to explain to a cop what you were doing if you were unlucky enough to be caught. Just accept the additional road tax for what it is.

[Scuba_Steve]

You dont understand human nature then if you think the roads would be safer if speed limits were not policed. There are some 50km roads in ChCh that I would be doing 60 - 70k on (depending on traffic density) if there was no policing of speed limits.
I have a much much better grasp of human nature than you it seems (hint: people as a general rule don't want to die or be injured); You also failed to provide any real argument I would travel 110km/h on a 60km/h road in Porirua if it weren't policed... & guess what I used to travel 110km/h on said road, but back then it was a 100km/h road; the road hasn't changed, the made up number has (and is now so low even the slowest drivers on the road "speed" round it)

[swbarnett]

You dont understand human nature then if you think the roads would be safer if speed limits were not policed. There are some 50km roads in ChCh that I would be doing 60 - 70k on (depending on traffic density) if there was no policing of speed limits.
So, you extrapolate from the fact that you would go faster if there was no enforcement to lower speed enforcemnt making roads more dangerous? Bloody hell, you need lessons in logic, human nature, the workings of the universe and preferably how to take your foot out of your mouth at the same time.

SPEED DOES NOT KILL!!! Never has, never will. Unless you live in a different universe with completely different physical laws. Come to think of it, your posts do suggest strongly that you're not of this universe.

[FJRider]

It's the ones who either use up the whole passing lane because they won't speed up, or more importantly the ones who overtake at minimum speed where there is no passing lane.

I notice there is a culture (for want of a better word) in overtaking vehicles ... the vehicles in the cue MUST overtake in the order they are lined up ... regardless of the actual ability to complete it quickly and safely. Few give the opportunity for the faster vehicles to go first. The "ME FIRST" attitude prevails in most cases ... regardless though of their position in the cue.
I put it down to the simple refusal of everybody to be inconvenienced by anybody else.


(Dunno why, that 180 just popped into my head.) :innocent:

Some respected riding texts counsel briefly exceeding the speed limit to execute a quick overtake. They also mention that it would be a waste of time trying to explain to a cop what you were doing if you were unlucky enough to be caught. Just accept the additional road tax for what it is.

I guess your speed triple would have as much difficulty to overtake as my FJ :devil2: I've had the odd "chat" with cops about my overtaking :blank: ... but few considering the number of overtakes I've made. And NONE charging me with the actual speeds I was doing at the time .. even with the locked on speeds they had.

[onearmedbandit]

You have never heard the saying "The Faster You Go The Bigger The Mess"? Maybe it will take for that to happen to you before you understand, if you survive your crash that is.

Only if things go wrong. Speed in itself does not kill.

[george formby]

You have never heard the saying "The Faster You Go The Bigger The Mess"? Maybe it will take for that to happen to you before you understand, if you survive your crash that is.

IIRC that is an advertising slogan not a saying, similar to "show us your crack" or "Coke adds life". Or even, "Zoom, zoom, zoom....".

[swbarnett]

You have never heard the saying "The Faster You Go The Bigger The Mess"?
I've heard it. You've obviously bought that logical fallacy hook, line and sinker. If that were true every astronaut would've died less than a minute after lift-off. If they's said "The Faster you HIT, The Bigger The Mess" then I could agree with them. First there must be an impact for the velocity of that impact to be a factor in the size of the mess (note that I said velocity, not speed - direction is also very important)

At least for me enforcement just makes me want to go faster to show those self-important twats that they are dead wrong. According to TPTB I should've died a thousand times by now.


Maybe it will take for that to happen to you before you understand, if you survive your crash that is.
I've had a few accidents. Most within the first two years of my riding career. I've never had more than the odd bruise. I've never come off on the open road and never been over the speed limit when I come off. I've had plenty of dogs run out either at or in front of me and I've never hit one or come off as a result.

And while we're on the subject of carnage, momentum is far more important in a collision than speed. Seeing as how you believe the "speed kills" bullshit, can you please tell me why trucks are legally allowed to carry a great deal more momentum than we are? A bike would have to do something like 500kph to carry the same momentum as even a small truck at 90kph.

[Zedder]

IIRC that is an advertising slogan not a saying, similar to "show us your crack" or "Coke adds life". Or even, "Zoom, zoom, zoom....".

Very much so. The slogan was part of an advert that started with "If you're driving at 90 kilometers per hour and crash..." The crash is an IF situation not a definite, just like OAB wrote about "Only if things go wrong..."

[Zedder]

And while we're on the subject of carnage, momentum is far more important in a collision than speed. Seeing as how you believe the "speed kills" bullshit, can you please tell me why trucks are legally allowed to carry a great deal more momentum than we are? A bike would have to do something like 500kph to carry the same momentum as even a small truck at 90kph.

I was reading the stats on the no speed limit trial in Oz's Northern Territory. Over the test year and the 11 crashes with no fatalities, there was only one serious injury which involved alcohol and no seatbelt. There was nothing involving speed.

[Swoop]

You have never heard the saying "The Faster You Go The Bigger The Mess"?
It's nice to know you are gullible enough to absorb the propaganda.
It should be "The faster you go, the sooner you get there".

Coming to a sudden and abrupt stop, is a different matter, but you should already know that and ride accordingly.

[Scuba_Steve]

You might be alright over the speed limit but dont forget everyone else irrespective of ability will be thinling the same that they are ok over the limit too and if you dont believe more accidents will happen as a result you live in a cocoon.

Or you've read the countless studies to show less accidents would & do happen, looked at the countries where less accident do happen (Spoiler: sowest roads in the world have most deaths, fastest ones have least), have an idea about human psychology, are able to grasp logic, you know become educated rather than buying into propoganda... Putting a number on a sign doesn't magically make the roads unsafe if you travel faster than said displayed number, nor does it magically make them safe if you travel slower than said number
If speed killed Hammond would be dead, the faster you go the quicker you get there*

[george formby]

You might be alright over the speed limit but dont forget everyone else irrespective of ability will be thinling the same that they are ok over the limit too and if you dont believe more accidents will happen as a result you live in a cocoon.


First world countries that have a significantly higher speed limit than ours also have a significantly lower road toll per capita. Admittedly the roads are generally in better condition and the licensing process is more stringent. That's another way of saying more training and practice before you can have free rein.

To follow your line of thinking to it's conclusion we will all end up on segways and heavy goods will be transported by golf carts.

If you need a hammer to break out of your shell, I have eleven and you can have my pointy ended mallet for the courier cost.

[george formby]

To blame the roads is a cop out and I bet those countries that have better roads have a far higher registration charge than ours to pay for them. Not everyone would feel comfortable paying higher registration/taxes for 'better" roads so why not take training or buy a vehicle more suited to the roads we have got.

You think training is worthless and regardless of your ride the tires are made of rubber, you convinced yourself that an adventure style bike was more appropriate with no physical evidence. Most of the countries which have higher speed limits also have more extreme weather than we do and higher densities of traffic. Here and everywhere else in the world roads are roads, it's how we use them that matters. Your panacea for improvement is pure snake oil and quackery.

PM me your address and I will send the hammer for free.

[swbarnett]

You might be alright over the speed limit but dont forget everyone else irrespective of ability will be thinling the same that they are ok over the limit too and if you dont believe more accidents will happen as a result you live in a cocoon.
Oh FFS! You're one of those closed-minded fuckwits that thinks we all think the same. I've got news for you - we don't. There is a whole world of variety out there that you will never appreciate.

Remove speed limits (or even just enforcement) and you will not get a sudden rush of incompetant speeders. I lived through the days of the Traffic Safety Service. Enforcement was at it's lowest because the guy in charge believed that speed was not the be all and end all of road safety. We didn't suddenly all start rushing around at 200kph then so why would now be any different?

[swbarnett]

To blame the roads is a cop out and I bet those countries that have better roads have a far higher registration charge than ours to pay for them.
No, they have a higher population density. IIRC, NZ has among the highest length of road per capita in the world. It's no wonder they're not all as shiny as the German Autobahn.

[v twin]

If you ride a road bike and an adventure bike on earthquake damaged roads you will notice an improvement with an adventure bike. You will never understand otherwise. You need the hammer yourself!!

I really don't know why I'm bothering with this but... if you were riding a sports bike And hit the brakes you would be stopped before the adventure bikes forks had even stopped compressing. I rode an rsvr on the worst single lane country roads for years and it was sweet, your adventure bike would be more comfortable though....

I believe speed is fine, it's the upbringing of people around bikes that could do with a tune.
Some mates an I had blast through Europe once, the French know how to look after bikes on the roads. Turn signals from everyone when changing lanes all the time, people looking in mirrors, drivers of all vehicles anticipating movements and cars happily pulling out of your way.
Couldn't be more different here, I have had car drivers actually pull out on me to stop me passing.

I have Had a few big offs early on on bikes, mostly my fault to be fair and I know what went wrong but have been clean for years now. It's a skill thing, I didn't slow down, I got faster.but I also got better at the road skills and dick head radar...
Sorry Cassinia, don't want to jump on the band wagon but you are totally blinkered in your view.
Maybe correct in a small portion but you just don't seem to see the complexity of what you are arguing, only repeating the same shit. I would be mildly encouraged if you even took on some of the views here but noooooo....are you doing this a a wind up?

[v twin]

I actually exceed the speed limit like you guys but most likely by not as much but like I said just because you believe you are safe at high speed so will everyone else think the same irrespective of experience. Why do you not see that as a recipie for disaster if speed policing was done away with?

I am happy with a level,of enforcement, just not 100kph and 4% buffer.....I can honestly say I have had more 'moments' on bike and in car only because I have lost focus due to an inappropriate speed limit

Edit, or just plain shit driving

[swbarnett]

Have never heard of the Traffic Safety Service
It's what the MOT called themselves for a short time before they got merged into the police.


so maybe you are thinking of another country where the fines were greater than NZ and if that was the case that would explain why people stayed within the law despite less policing.
1. Larger fines will likely not slow people down, just increase the number of runners.
2. I said - "We didn't suddenly all start rushing around at 200kph". We didn't all suddenly become forlock tugging angels either.


If you want no speed limits you would be better going and living in a country without them as it will never happen in NZ
Likely true in our lifetime. Although stranger things have happened.


due to the number of crashes already happening here.
Wrong. It's due to pig-headed bureaucrats that can't see past their own twisted statistics to something that actually stands a chance of reducing the very thing that they're afraid of.

[onearmedbandit]

Have never heard of the Traffic Safety Service so maybe you are thinking of another country.

A quick google of that term brings up a numbder of results. Maybe you should consider you don't know it all.

http://tdg.co.nz/40th-anniversary/traffic-safety-service-merged-with-new-zealand-police/

[swbarnett]

like I said just because you believe you are safe at high speed so will everyone else think the same irrespective of experience. Why do you not see that as a recipie for disaster if speed policing was done away with?
Do you honestly think that the drivers I follow that are currently doing 80kph on the open road are suddenly going to shoot off like a rocket? They've found their optimal speed and so will everyone else. Yes, some will get it wrong and come to grief but most people will just settle into a speed they're comfortable with (some slower, some faster) and we will all be much better off for it.

[T.W.R]

I dont know where you live but the chance of getting caught by a cop was far greater in ChCh in the days of the MOT as there used to be far more motorbike cops than there is today. They would hide in a side street and follow motorcyclists going past while positioning themselves as far to the left of the road so as to try and not be seen in the mirrors of the motorbike.

Did the MOT really advertise they were no longer going to police speed in your day? I would love to see the advertising or perhaps you were friends with a cop at the time who was happy to get mates off any prosecution.

HOLY SHIT!
Christ you get fucking worse!
My oldman was & half his mates were MOT and on the patrol bikes and you are full of shit and just spewing it out your pie hole
You're fucking delusional

[Bass]

You're fucking delusional

Reading carefully between the lines leads me to suspect that he is actually a very skilful troll.

[T.W.R]

So it was the old man and his mates that turned a blind eye to your speeding then and not MOT policy to not police speeding? You are the fucken delusional one.

Oh you fuckin queer cunt!
For what its worth I got raked over the coals by the oldman & co in the early part of my motorcycling & what made it worse when dad left the MOT he started a driving school which as a point of fact was one of the most prominent & successful in ChCh so I got grilled with everything I did.

You should fuckin grow a set and say something like that to my face.....coz I'm primed to rip you to bits

[T.W.R]

So if you agree with me that the MOT were tough in their day what are you on about then saying I am full of shit? Or maybe you got me confused with the other poster that said the Traffic Safety Service did not police speed limits. I think he is the delusional one you are thinking of.

I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire let alone agree with any of the tripe the eminates from the void between your ears!

[onearmedbandit]

Reading carefully between the lines leads me to suspect that he is actually a very skilful troll.

You know what, I think you may be right. No one can be that delusional.

[Grumph]

Just put the prick on ignore - it's much better for the blood pressure.

[Voltaire]

Just put the prick on ignore - it's much better for the blood pressure.

On the contrary, I don't put anyone on ignore just skip over bits I can't be arsed with. Good practice is that USA Israel thread

with the master of drivel.

I imagine Cassina is in his 60's, Wife runs the house and the guys at the Bowling Club are tired of listening to him.:laugh:

Probably listens to Mike Hoskings, watches Coronation St and drinks the cheapest beer at the supermarket.

[Jeff Sichoe]

hey what's wrong with the cheapest beer in the supermarket jeez

[pritch]

Reading carefully between the lines leads me to suspect that he is actually a very skilful troll.

I believe he is actually a she. Troll I can believe. Skilful? Nah! :killingme

[Voltaire]

hey what's wrong with the cheapest beer in the supermarket jeez

If you have to ask.....

[swbarnett]

I dont know where you live but the chance of getting caught by a cop was far greater in ChCh in the days of the MOT as there used to be far more motorbike cops than there is today.
I was born in Auckland and have only lived away from there for a cpouple of years (even now I live in hte Waikato but work in Auckland). I used to do anything up to 110kph on a 50 back in the '80s*. Never got caught.


Did the MOT really advertise they were no longer going to police speed in your day?
No overt advertising. Just a news articles or two telling of how much nicer and safer the roads were since the speed enforcement was eased back. IIRC the head honcho at the time even said publicly that concentration on speed alone was counter-productive.





*My one and only claim to a mispent youth.

[onearmedbandit]

I think the number of road deaths a year were higher back then so thats maybe why there is more speed enforcement today. You maybe just got lucky not getting a speeding ticket rather that the reason you think there was no or little enforcement.

Less to do with speed than the vastly improved safety of cars on the roads today you'll find. People still speed ya know. And there's a shit load more vehicles on the road.

[george formby]

Less to do with speed than the vastly improved safety of cars on the roads today you'll find. People still speed ya know. And there's a shit load more vehicles on the road.

Exceedingly pertinent. We are measuring the road toll in fatalities, so, unfortunately, we have limited tech to protect us. ABS is about it really, TC is just starting to make an appearance, but we do not have rider protection.

I would like to see the stats on major accidents, not fatal's, to see if they are dropping or not. Those numbers would be a better indicator of driver / rider behaviour than focusing on funerals and speed.

[Swoop]

You know what, I think you may be right. No one can be that delusional.

The jury is out...


I believe she's only here because of a fetish for the colour red.

[GrayWolf]

Next time Garmin asks if I want to purchase the safety camera updates maybe I'd better consider paying up. I wonder if the new cameras will be placed in "dangerous spots" on a hill like the one in the Ngauranga Gorge?

ONE camera, ONE?? Come and live near what must be THE most dangerous hill in New Zealand.... the Wainuiomata hill.. it has 3 camera's one at the bottom each side {griffins biscuit factory, and the last small row of shops in Wainui.. AND another one on the top of the hill
:tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger::t ugger:

[Jin]

Shoot them out

[Moi]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/share-your-news-and-views/17188391/Making-the-roads-safer-for-all-drivers-including-those-on-two-wheels

[v twin]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/share-your-news-and-views/17188391/Making-the-roads-safer-for-all-drivers-including-those-on-two-wheels

No problem with that

[Ulsterkiwi]

I wrote the following to the guy in the AA who made the comments and copied in the editor of their magazine and the person in charge of member services

This is what I wrote:

Mr Stockdale
As an AA member of some years I am writing to express my utter disgust at your recent comments about motorcyclists to the press. As a representative from what is supposedly an organisation which advocates and represents motorists, I was astounded that you saw fit to paint a section of the motoring community with such broad, negative and ill-informed strokes.

I see that according to the AA website that your area of responsibility for media comments is petrol pricing. What qualifications do you have to comment on how motorcyclists think or act?

I am enraged that the AA has effectively determined that because I am a motorcyclist (as well as a driver) I somehow see myself as immune from speed limits and can use the roads as I see fit. I am not remotely interested in some explanation that you did not intend to include all motorcyclists in this group, as you know full well the impression which will be brought by the media is that the AA officially think all motorcyclists are recidivist speeders.

Not only were the comments poorly thought out, they are not based in fact. Any meaningful commentary on road fatalities must be set in the context of the rate at which fatalities happen. In other words, how does the road toll sit in relation to the size of the vehicle fleet using the roads? The increase in motorcycle registrations in recent years means the rate has in fact decreased. If the AA cannot get this correct, what chance is there for the media looking for yet more sensation!

The motorcycling community (like car drivers) undoubtedly has its bad apples, but how dare you group all those who travel on two wheels in that group. This is a community which is more at risk from far more prevalent types of behaviour such as inattentive drivers (the ubiquitous texters and facebookers), drunk drivers, drugged drivers, tired drivers, or generally poorly skilled drivers who fail to signal, look when joining from intersections, have not the faintest idea how to properly merge into a flow of traffic nor understand in the most basic fashion the meaning of a safe following distance. As road users we are in need of the support of the AA not a further blackening of our names. Why were the comments to the media not about these issues?
What other section of the motoring nation has embraced the idea of upping the standards for licence testing or pursuing ongoing training in order to improve skills in the manner which motorcyclists have?

I thought the AA took a sensible approach to the NZ Police obsession with speed as a major focus of road policing, your comments demonstrate otherwise. It is sad that a group who should be amongst the best informed have jumped on the bandwagon of picking easy targets.

Like many of my friends I now find myself wondering why I pay fees to an organisation which seems biased against me as a road user.

I didn't get a reply, which annoyed me. I was a member making a complaint and nothing from any of the three people included in the email.

So I wrote this:

Mr Stockdale and colleagues,
Over a month has passed and no reply to my comments. How surprised am I that a financial member of the organisation which pays your salaries writes to you to express extreme dissatisfaction with your performance and you do not even have the courtesy to acknowledge receipt of the email? By any measure of operating standards this is yet another poor performance!
I have seen no follow up on the ill-conceived and non-evidenced comments from Mr Stockdale, is this how the AA now operate? "Light the blue touch paper and retreat to a safe distance"?
I did see Mr Stockdale on the evening news recently, discussing the AA's position on petrol pricing, at least on this occasion he was doing his designated job but it does indicate he still works for the AA.
Just to reiterate, the AA is a service provider. I am a financial member paying for the provision of those services. I wrote in response to a well distributed public set of remarks by an officer of your organisation which were disparaging of myself and many other AA members. Not one of you saw fit to even acknowledge my communication let alone attempt to defend Mr Stockdale's comments. Poor show AA, very poor show.

So this afternoon I got this reply:

I apologise for not replying earlier. I took your original message as you simply wanting to state your views and didn’t think you were seeking a response. We normally are very good at responding to Members’ questions and, now that you have written again, I will try to respond to your points.



The AA did not instigate that story and my comments were certainly not designed to suggest all motorcyclists are speeders. When a reporter approached us with views held by some other road users that motorcycles should have front number plates for enforcement we said this would be totally unnecessary if speed cameras were reconfigured to take a photo of the rear of any speeding vehicles. I also said that if speed enforcement was important for safety, then we think this should be applied fairly to all road users – whether that’s cars, trucks or motorcyclists. This is a position that seems completely fair and reasonable to us.



In regards to your comments about how the road toll sits in relation to the size of the fleet, motorcycles make up less than 3% of the vehicles on the road yet made up 17% of road deaths and 10% of injuries in 2015. Ministry of Transport data shows the risks of being killed or hurt on the roads is 21 times higher for motorcyclists compared to car drivers and the fact that a higher percentage of motorcyclists are being hurt now than 10 years ago is a concern for organisations like the AA who are focussed on improving road safety. By comparison, despite there being more cars (and trucks) on the road, the road toll for other modes is largely static – meaning its declining on a fleet basis.



You note that motorcyclists are at more risk of bad behaviour from other road users on the road, like impaired driving, fatigue, inattention, and the AA and others are doing work in these areas. The AA supported reducing the drink drive limit, toughening the licence test (including introducing LAMS for motorcycling). We advocated strongly for mandating alcohol interlocks for repeat drink drivers and we also want roadside drug testing. We regularly do stories in the media warning of the risks from distracted driving and also want signage at fixed speed camera sites to give people more chance to slow down if they need to in these high risk areas.



Some of this work is already having benefits for everyone on the roads but we need to do more to focus on the areas with the highest risks. If we look at the currently popular issue of visiting drivers, in 2015 there were 20 deaths attributed to visiting drivers (6% of the total road toll) and more than 3 million people visited during the year. Nevertheless, the tourism industry, Government agencies and the AA are fully engaged in initiatives to reduce that 6% toll further. While educating road users and advertising are often suggested as ways to improve road safety, the evidence shows broad approaches trying to improve the behaviour of all road users at once is not an effective use of money. The ACC ‘Ride For Ever’ motorcycle programme is an exception which does work, but then it’s a much smaller and dare I say more engaged group. In reality the biggest benefits will likely come from building safer roads, making sure speed limits reflect the safety of different roads, as well as improvements in vehicle technology. These alone won’t be enough though and as one of the most at-risk groups on the roads motorcyclists will be an important focus.



I’d just like to say again that the original story you complained about was not intended to be any sort of attack on motorcyclists and simply pointing out that speed enforcement should apply equally to all vehicles – something which isn’t currently the case.

He side stepped a few of the points I raised but it was good to get a response at least. Anyway, I thought we could flog the dead horse again.......:brick:

[Akzle]

tl:dr
sumarise that shit nigga

[Ulsterkiwi]

tl:dr
sumarise that shit nigga

ok

"hoi, arsehole, what gives?"

"hoi, arsehole, its me again, you didnt tell me!"

"oh sorry, didn't think you meant it, uhm..... distraction distraction distraction, so yeah, we good now?"

[Akzle]

ok

"hoi, arsehole, what gives?"

"hoi, arsehole, its me again, you didnt tell me!"

"oh sorry, didn't think you meant it, uhm..... distraction distraction distraction, so yeah, we good now?"

you should continue to give them money. and probably phone talkback and harrumf, and such. that'll show em.

[Ulsterkiwi]

you should continue to give them money. and probably phone talkback and harrumf, and such. that'll show em.

yeah probably. Where can I vote Akzle?

[rastuscat]

yeah probably. Where can I vote Akzle?

Wherever he stands for something. I've yet to see that happen.

[Akzle]

yeah probably. Where can I vote Akzle?

everywhere. just cross out all the other options and write "no suitable representation"

[Moise]

I was pissed off when I saw those comments from the AA. But they long since stopped representing the public.

I still belong because their breakdown service can be very useful when you own older vehicles!

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[Akzle]

I still belong because their breakdown service can be very useful when you own older vehicles!

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sounds like you need a phucken sweet magna. no stopping that shit.
although i did once have to replace the clutch slave on a servo forecourt :sweatdrop: having clutchlessed it out of auckland :shutup: