2017 NZSBK Superbike Championship - on hold

[Mental Trousers]

Facebook official


2017 NZSBK Championship - Superbike Results:
Due to an appeal against the final results of the Superbike Class Championship results should be held as provisional until such time as the appeal outcome has been determined.

https://www.facebook.com/motorcyclingnz/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

So it looks like Sloan hasn't won it yet.

[MVnut]

In my opinion, no way in hell can Sloan Frost take maximum points for race 3 (part 1). Certainly does not deserve to win a title on a crash, regardless of the lap windback rule. There is an old saying "to finish first, first one must finish" How about some fairness and logic for once MNZ

[jellywrestler]

In my opinion, no way in hell can Sloan Frost take maximum points for race 3 (part 1). Certainly does not deserve to win a title on a crash, regardless of the lap windback rule. There is an old saying "to finish first, first one must finish" How about some fairness and logic for once MNZ

Sloan Frost did not crash at Hampton Downs

i'll put my hand up for that stuff up, I was commentating alone and said he'd crashed, it was out of my vision and i caught a glimpse on the tv screen inside the apartment we used the balcony for our veiw, i first thought it was number 11 then 1 and then i went back outside to check points etc, positions and din't watch the bikes coming back into the pits.
the buck stops at me and no-one corrected me all day not at prizegiving, imagine my surprise when I got home on monday and watched the race.....
the protest i understand is the changing of the points a week after taupo.
I apoligise to all those concerned that I made an error at such a crucial level in our sport.
spyda

[Drew]

In my opinion, no way in hell can Sloan Frost take maximum points for race 3 (part 1). Certainly does not deserve to win a title on a crash, regardless of the lap windback rule. There is an old saying "to finish first, first one must finish" How about some fairness and logic for once MNZ
How about getting your facts straight.

[jellywrestler]

How about getting your facts straight.

see post three, that's what they heard due to an error on my part.

[Drew]

see post three, that's what they heard due to an error on my part.

I think he's talking about the Taupo incident, where the results were cocked up on the day.

[jellywrestler]

In my opinion, no way in hell can Sloan Frost take maximum points for race 3 (part 1). Certainly does not deserve to win a title on a crash, regardless of the lap windback rule. There is an old saying "to finish first, first one must finish" How about some fairness and logic for once MNZ

send your submission to MNZ then

[Drew]

How can the results be pending, when a judiciary committee hasn't yet been assembled?

They are the ones who decide if the results should be held untill the end of the appeal process.

[MVnut]

Sloan Frost did not crash at Hampton Downs

i'll put my hand up for that stuff up, I was commentating alone and said he'd crashed, it was out of my vision and i caught a glimpse on the tv screen inside the apartment we used the balcony for our veiw, i first thought it was number 11 then 1 and then i went back outside to check points etc, positions and din't watch the bikes coming back into the pits.
the buck stops at me and no-one corrected me all day not at prizegiving, imagine my surprise when I got home on monday and watched the race.....
the protest i understand is the changing of the points a week after taupo.
I apoligise to all those concerned that I made an error at such a crucial level in our sport.
spyda

Thanks for that, it is all now in a different light


How about getting your facts straight.

That's pretty good coming from you


see post three, that's what they heard due to an error on my part.

Again, appreciated


I think .......

Drew you need more than half a brain before you can do any thinking


send your submission to MNZ then

Been in the game since 1972, have seen good and bad....last few years certainly nothing impresses me re MNZ and many of the race officials....and no I am not putting my hand up, been there done that fuckin unappreciated as John McClane once said

And re the incorrectly tallied points, I'm sure all the top competitors knew their own points so no crying there. Still the issue of such a short completed distance particularly the first 'half'

[Drew]

Thanks for that, it is all now in a different light



That's pretty good coming from you



Again, appreciated



Drew you need more than half a brain before you can do any thinking



Been in the game since 1972, have seen good and bad....last few years certainly nothing impresses me re MNZ and many of the race officials....and no I am not putting my hand up, been there done that fuckin unappreciated as John McClane once said

And re the incorrectly tallied points, I'm sure all the top competitors knew their own points so no crying there. Still the issue of such a short completed distance particularly the first 'half'
I was clarifying why I said what I did you stupid old cunt. But if ya wanna sling shit, I got no problem with that.

[Grumph]

The results are pending because as always "The results are subject to official confirmation"

Incidentally, there are actually penalties for claiming the win falsely. If there's any doubt I hope Sloan has added "subject to official confirmation" to anything he's posted publicly.

[Drew]

The results are pending because as always "The results are subject to official confirmation"

Incidentally, there are actually penalties for claiming the win falsely. If there's any doubt I hope Sloan has added "subject to official confirmation" to anything he's posted publicly.
He was told he had won, he's fine.

[300weatherby]

All this panty pulling over something that is largely irrelevant, how about getting pissy about the decision making by race officials and flag marshals at Sound of Thunder couple of weekends ago? Just leave it there mate, gizz another puff would ya , they won't be round for a minute...... The muffler that fell off the old Ducati shitter that was left lying on the track so the the two front runners could find it on the racing line in the kink at the top of the straight. Flat fucking out. A new RSV4 Factory totally destroyed ( literally nothing salvageable ) and a ( loaned!) 1199 very very badly damaged ( major rebuild required, if it can even be done) both riders could very easily be DEAD.

DEAD!

[CHOPPA]

All this panty pulling over something that is largely irrelevant, how about getting pissy about the decision making by race officials and flag marshals at Sound of Thunder couple of weekends ago? Just leave it there mate, gizz another puff would ya , they won't be round for a minute...... The muffler that fell off the old Ducati shitter that was left lying on the track so the the two front runners could find it on the racing line in the kink at the top of the straight. Flat fucking out. A new RSV4 Factory totally destroyed ( literally nothing salvageable ) and a ( loaned!) 1199 very very badly damaged ( major rebuild required, if it can even be done) both riders could very easily be DEAD.

DEAD!

I couldn't find my favorite flavor V at the bakery today, had to drive all the way to the other end of the street!

[Drew]

All this panty pulling over something that is largely irrelevant, how about getting pissy about the decision making by race officials and flag marshals at Sound of Thunder couple of weekends ago? Just leave it there mate, gizz another puff would ya , they won't be round for a minute...... The muffler that fell off the old Ducati shitter that was left lying on the track so the the two front runners could find it on the racing line in the kink at the top of the straight. Flat fucking out. A new RSV4 Factory totally destroyed ( literally nothing salvageable ) and a ( loaned!) 1199 very very badly damaged ( major rebuild required, if it can even be done) both riders could very easily be DEAD.

DEAD!
This thread is about the superbike title. Go bitch about your thing in its own thread.

[Doppleganger]

I think the points are correct first time from Taupo, Tony had started another lap after Sloans red flag. Dont know why or how someone can fiddle with the points after the fact, someone who thinks there really important no doubt.

[jellywrestler]

I couldn't find my favorite flavor V at the bakery today, had to drive all the way to the other end of the street!

A good fridgey would have a van full of it and a custom made fridge in his wagon for it......

[jellywrestler]

I think the points are correct first time from Taupo, Tony had started another lap after Sloans red flag. Dont know why or how someone can fiddle with the points after the fact, someone who thinks there really important no doubt.

the log clearly says crash occurred, then 1 minute later red flag, there are more than just two bikes in the race and unless the whole field has crossed the line it must back a lap.

[CHOPPA]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1463115770426972&id=147576731980889

[jellywrestler]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1463115770426972&id=147576731980889

more episodes than shortland street....

[Doppleganger]

the log clearly says crash occurred, then 1 minute later red flag, there are more than just two bikes in the race and unless the whole field has crossed the line it must back a lap.

It doesn't say that in the rules;

6.
21
Stopping & Starting a Race:
Should it be necessary to stop a race due to an accident or climatic or other
conditions that make it hazardous to continue, a red flag will be d
isplayed at
the finish line under the direction of the Steward or Clerk of the Course, once
instructed, all flag points are to display waved red flags. Upon sighting the red
flag riders are to cease racing immediately and at touring pace return to the pit
lane or the safest point on the track at the discretion of the Clerk of the Course
(this point to be announced at riders briefing), where they will stop and await
further instructions.
The decision to stop a race for whatever the reason can only come f
rom the
St
eward or Clerk of the Course.
For climatic reasons the race can only be
stopped once. When a race has been stopped immediately any result or
decision is based on the race order of the previous lap then the number of laps
referred to in A and B
is the number of laps effected before the lap in which
the race is stopped.
A.
If two laps or less are completed:
a.
The original start shall be declared null and void.
All riders taking part in the original start shall be allowed to restart
e
ither
on the original machine or on another machine
p
rovided it has been
approved as fit to race by the machine examiners. The restarted race shall
be for the full race distance and the original
g
rid positions will be used.
The place of any motorcycle unab
le to take part in the restart shall be left
vacant.
b.
If it is not possible to restart the race, no points will be awarded towards
the championships.
c.
In all cases where a res
tart takes place, this will be within
30 minutes after
the initial race has
been stopped.
©Motorcyclin
g New Zealand Incorporated 2016
Manual of Motorcycle Sport
–
Road
B.
If three or more laps but less than two thirds of the race distance have
taken place.
a.
The race shall be considered to be more than one part. The race
positions at the end of the lap preceding the stopping of the race
will be
the gr
id positions if a restart takes place.
In
all cases where a restart takes
place, this will be
as soon as possible
after the previous part has
been
stopped.
b.
The distance of the restarted race will be that required make up
the initial full race distan
ce.
c
.
Only those riders who have accomplished at least 65% of the laps
realised by the first rider of the preceding part will be authorised
to restart. Machines
can not be replaced
.
d
.
Half points will be awarded to each part. If it is impos
sible to
restart the race, half points only will be awarded towards the
championship.
C.
If two thirds of the race distance is completed:
a.
This shall be declared a full race. The finishing order shall be at
end of the lap preceding
the stopping of the race.
b.
Full championship points will be awarded.

[jellywrestler]

It doesn't say that in the rules;


When a race has been stopped immediately any result or
decision is based on the race order of the previous lap then the number of laps
referred to in A and B
is the number of laps effected before the lap in which
the race is stopped.


except right here and simple common sense says that you can't award points for two different laps, clutching at straws?

[Doppleganger]

except right here and simple common sense says that you can't award points for two different laps, clutching at straws?

Doesn't state how many have to have completed the 'previous lap', a lap can be completed by just one rider....or does that lap not count!?

[Drew]

Doesn't state how many have to have completed the 'previous lap', a lap can be completed by just one rider....or does that lap not count!?

Last lap completed refers to the field. Not just one bike.

[scott411]

Last lap completed refers to the field. Not just one bike.

it does not say completed, it says the lap preceding, so I can see the argument above,


The race positions at the end of the lap preceding the stopping of the race
will be the grid positions if a restart takes place.

anyway, this is all just discussion about taupo, as that result has not been appealed, its only Hampton Downs that has been ,

[Drew]

it does not say completed, it says the lap preceding, so I can see the argument above,



anyway, this is all just discussion about taupo, as that result has not been appealed, its only Hampton Downs that has been ,

No, Taupo is the result under appeal.

[Drew]

it does not say completed, it says the lap preceding, so I can see the argument above,



anyway, this is all just discussion about taupo, as that result has not been appealed, its only Hampton Downs that has been ,
Also. "The race positions at the end of the lap preceding ".

Be fucken hard to work that out if the whole field didn't first have to complete the lap.

[jasonu]

Sloan Frost did not crash at Hampton Downs

i'll put my hand up for that stuff up, I was commentating alone and said he'd crashed,
spyda

That's surprising, every NZ bike meeting I have been to no one could understand a single word from the p.a.

[jellywrestler]

That's surprising, every NZ bike meeting I have been to no one could understand a single word from the p.a.

http://www.i-film.co.nz/watch.html haters will be haters.

[Reckless]

Still on hold by the looks of this only published yesterday??

http://amcn.com.au/editorial/kiwi-controversy/

Anymore updates lads???

[Kickaha]

That's surprising, every NZ bike meeting I have been to no one could understand a single word from the p.a.

You can't have been to one for a fair while then

[scott411]

Tony Rees has been declared Champ,

https://www.mnz.co.nz/news/news-detail/2017/04/12/mitchell-rees-appeal

https://www.mnz.co.nz/news/news-detail/2017/04/12/tony-rees-appeal

https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/results/revised-2017-nzsbk-championship-results-final.pdf?sfvrsn=0

[Drew]

That'll be appealed also.

[scott411]

That'll be appealed also.

they will have to appeal both decisions to the sports tribunal,

[jellywrestler]

That'll be appealed also.

if the points were posted wrong at taupo then why didn't anyone pick it up, especially those with a vested interest?

[Drew]

if the points were posted wrong at taupo then why didn't anyone pick it up, especially those with a vested interest?

I'm sure that's a valid question.

But it's moot now.

MNZ rules are fucken retarded. MNZ stewards are fucking useless.

This situation shouldn't be possible.

[Drew]

they will have to appeal both decisions to the sports tribunal,

Yes. If that's what is required.

[Grumph]

I see the ad on TV describing Sloan as "NZ Superbike Champion" did not have a "subject to official confirmation" line on it.

IF Tony is confirmed Champ, I wonder if MNZ will have the balls to fine Suzuki NZ ?

Have to wait and see...

[riffer]

Jesus, this whole thing's a clusterfuck.

I wouldn't like to be around Sloan today. He'll hardly be pleased.

[scott411]

Yes. If that's what is required.

i'm not sure if the sports tribunal has ever over turned a MNZ decision,

i can think of a couple of times they have not over ruled them, i know of one last year over a team selection, another over a superbike title a few number of years back,

[Drew]

i'm not sure if the sports tribunal has ever over turned a MNZ decision,

i can think of a couple of times they have not over ruled them, i know of one last year over a team selection, another over a superbike title a few number of years back,

Perhaps not. But that doesn't matter either does it?

[jellywrestler]

I'm sure that's a valid question.

But it's moot now.

MNZ rules are fucken retarded. MNZ stewards are fucking useless.

This situation shouldn't be possible.

as a road racer you need to bear some of that on your shoulders, you are entitled to make the rules, and altar the rules, as is choppa, and the guy in development class.

it entertains me that teams at this level simply don't know the rules, all that time, money and effort into racing and can't pick up a little book and learn it's contents, not even one person in some teams.

[malcy25]

as a road racer you need to bear some of that on your shoulders, you are entitled to make the rules, and altar the rules, as is choppa, and the guy in development class.

it entertains me that teams at this level simply don't know the rules, all that time, money and effort into racing and can't pick up a little book and learn it's contents, not even one person in some teams.

Yes, especially the last sentence.

As a rider, we are also all responsible for calling errors in points.

[scott411]

Perhaps not. But that doesn't matter either does it?

in a way no, but it does tend to show that at appeal level, MNZ tends to get it right, even if the stewards and other officals don't always on the day,

to win at the sports tribunal, you would have to prove that the appeal panel did not rule on the rules correctly, and i dont know enough about the Taupo incident to comment, but with the Hampton downs rerun, the way the appeals committee ruled with the 1/4 points is the way i think the rules are written as well,

[scott411]

as a road racer you need to bear some of that on your shoulders, you are entitled to make the rules, and altar the rules, as is choppa, and the guy in development class.

it entertains me that teams at this level simply don't know the rules, all that time, money and effort into racing and can't pick up a little book and learn it's contents, not even one person in some teams.

agree totally, and its not just road racing, a number of distributor backed teams at the motocross nationals did not know the rules either, and dont even carry a copy of the rule book,

[jellywrestler]

Yes, especially the last sentence.

As a rider, we are also all responsible for calling errors in points.

yip, and my understanding is that they have 30 minutes to protest after posting of the results, not race finish, yet nothing was done here.

[roogazza]

So its congrats to grandad Rees in winning at the tender age of about 50 yrs .
I seem to recall it was his last gasp at trying to get another Cup,so that will please him I guess??????

At least when he's a pensioner he'll be able to say he was a champion.
(tho no one will remember).:lol:

[onearmedbandit]

it entertains me that teams at this level simply don't know the rules, all that time, money and effort into racing and can't pick up a little book and learn it's contents, not even one person in some teams.

Even at the highest level this bs still occurs. Marc Marquez, Phillip Island.

[jellywrestler]

So its congrats to grandad Rees in winning at the tender age of about 50 yrs .
I seem to recall it was his last gasp at trying to get another Cup,so that will please him I guess??????



last gasp, shit on the way he's set new outright lap records at paeroa and cemetery circuit, he was just riding cause he likes riding

[Grumph]

last gasp, shit on the way he's set new outright lap records at paeroa and cemetery circuit, he was just riding cause he likes riding

That's when things get really good - you're enjoying it and have nothing to prove so you're relaxed - and quick.....

[roogazza]

last gasp, shit on the way he's set new outright lap records at paeroa and cemetery circuit, he was just riding cause he likes riding

I mean, I thought I read it was his last attempt at National racing ? Great way to finish if that was the case ? Ridin cos you love it, is a given.

[Drew]

That's when things get really good - you're enjoying it and have nothing to prove so you're relaxed - and quick.....

Rubbish. He didnt stop trying till Hampton. Nearly cost him the title and it still isn't decided.

[Dreama]

So its congrats to grandad Rees in winning at the tender age of about 50 yrs .
I seem to recall it was his last gasp at trying to get another Cup,so that will please him I guess??????

At least when he's a pensioner he'll be able to say he was a champion.
(tho no one will remember).:lol:

The dedication and commitment of all the top national racers is amazing, most of us that have raced at any level know how hard it is to get bikes and bodies organized properly for race days but surely the Rees family have taken it to another level.
Most of the top guys have work or business away from motorcycling but the entire Rees clan must live and breathe them 24/7 and the wonder is that they still do it year in year out. Honda track days, Playday 6hr, Burt Monroe, Tri Series, Nationals ... and then organizing and participating in BOP motocross events ..... and then the rest of the time running Tony Rees Motorcycles. Mind boggling.

The word 'congratulations' doesn't seem to describe the achievement's that Tony, Damion, Mitch and the Rees team have reached this last season. You guys have been amazing.

[sharp2183]

Rubbish. He didnt stop trying till Hampton. Nearly cost him the title and it still isn't decided.

Fill us in, I thought it was decided this week that Tony Rees won the championship?

[Drew]

Fill us in, I thought it was decided this week that Tony Rees won the championship?

I haven't seen the official release. MNZ had another problem to solve also.

But the result of the Rees protests has been taken to the sports tribunal.

[sharp2183]

I haven't seen the official release. MNZ had another problem to solve also.

But the result of the Rees protests has been taken to the sports tribunal.

It's been all over facebook, posted by the official NZSBK page which is run by MNZ officials.

What's the other issue?

[Drew]

It's been all over facebook, posted by the official NZSBK page which is run by MNZ officials.

What's the other issue?

Fucking useless officials is the other problem.

[Kickaha]

Fucking useless officials is the other problem.

So what are you doing about it apart from whinging on here?

Are you going to step up and become a steward and show them how it's done, Clerk of the course maybe? run for President of your club?

[Drew]

So what are you doing about it apart from whinging on here?

Are you going to step up and become a steward and show them how it's done, Clerk of the course maybe? run for President of your club?
Yeah, I'd be wildly popular as an official. "Fuck off, you're being a retard". Is not what a racer wants to hear when they're having a cry about being hard done by.

[sharp2183]

So what are you doing about it apart from whinging on here?

Are you going to step up and become a steward and show them how it's done, Clerk of the course maybe? run for President of your club?

Kinda agree with this. Some may not be great but when those who complain are not willing to have a go themselves it's a bit tough. These guys aren't politicians who are paid plenty and therefore fairly privileged to be there. They are humans who make human errors when interpreting a (sometimes) ambiguous rulebook. Unless it is a safety related issue in which case there should be no confusion.

In this case there were some average decisions made by those in decision-making positions. But to MNZs credit they have accepted mistakes were made and reversed wrong decisions as per the appeal process so that the (according to the rules apparently) correct result is recognised.

I've gotta say that from my unbiased viewpoint it seems like a correct process with an outcome with a bit of rigour behind it. If I were in Sloan or Tony's position I might be a bit more passionate though...

[Drew]

Kinda agree with this. Some may not be great but when those who complain are not willing to have a go themselves it's a bit tough. These guys aren't politicians who are paid plenty and therefore fairly privileged to be there. They are humans who make human errors when interpreting a (sometimes) ambiguous rulebook. Unless it is a safety related issue in which case there should be no confusion.

In this case there were some average decisions made by those in decision-making positions. But to MNZs credit they have accepted mistakes were made and reversed wrong decisions as per the appeal process so that the (according to the rules apparently) correct result is recognised.

I've gotta say that from my unbiased viewpoint it seems like a correct process with an outcome with a bit of rigour behind it. If I were in Sloan or Tony's position I might be a bit more passionate though...
Bullshit. These people put themselves on the position. They put their fucken hand up. They weren't forced to do it.

So if they're shithouse, as a member I am well right to say they're shithouse.

[sharp2183]

Bullshit. These people put themselves on the position. They put their fucken hand up. They weren't forced to do it.

So if they're shithouse, as a member I am well right to say they're shithouse.

Yeah it's a free world and you can say what you like. No one is telling you that you can't drop a few f bombs along the way either. It just won't do much so it gets kinda old for those of us listening to it. Like apathetic non-voters complaining about the government. If you don't like it, vote for someone else or take action to change it.

[Grumph]

Bullshit. These people put themselves on the position. They put their fucken hand up. They weren't forced to do it.

So if they're shithouse, as a member I am well right to say they're shithouse.

From personal observation over too many years, some actually are forced into it - otherwise as gets pointed out to them, the club can't run meetings due to a lack of officials...
Some also are retired riders who want to give something back.

I've only ever in all the branches of motorsport I've worked in, found one guy who was in it for the power - and thank christ he was in kartsport and is now dead.

[jellywrestler]

Fucking useless officials is the other problem.

and riders who don't check results

[Drew]

and riders who don't check results

In this case, yep.

It doesnt occur to most people I don't think. That'll change now I reckon.

[sidecar bob]

and riders who don't check results

Can someone please explain?

[Drew]

Can someone please explain?

The steward corrected a mistake in the results, but after the day had concluded.

[Grumph]

The steward corrected a mistake in the results, but after the day had concluded.

And what happened then ? Did they get published in the corrected form or uncorrected ?

As it was part of a series, was mention made at the next riders briefing ?

[Drew]

And what happened then ? Did they get published in the corrected form or uncorrected ?

As it was part of a series, was mention made at the next riders briefing ?It was at the next meeting that people found out about the change.

Since it buggered up Rees, (fuck all mind, if he'd finished just one race or part race higher than the fifth place he would have won properly) they appealed the series results based on the results being changed outside of the stewards allowed time frame and without rider protest.

[jellywrestler]

The steward corrected a mistake in the results, but after the day had concluded.

odd eh, the rule states that a protest can be made up to thirty minutes after the posting of the results and this wasn't done, the team affected had how many members and how many resources (lap tops/ timers) to check this and did nothing about it at the time, now they're whinging


The steward corrected a mistake in the results, but after the day had concluded. I'd be very careful about making Libelous statements, this simply states that you don't know the facts, and you don't know the rules and reflects poorly on your rider and team.

[Drew]

odd eh, the rule states that a protest can be made up to thirty minutes after the posting of the results and this wasn't done, the team affected had how many members and how many resources (lap tops/ timers) to check this and did nothing about it at the time, now they're whinging

I'd be very careful about making Libelous statements, this simply states that you don't know the facts, and you don't know the rules and reflects poorly on your rider and team.
I wasnt part of the team after Teratonga.

I should have added that this was my understanding of the situation though.

[jellywrestler]

I should have added that this was my understanding of the situation though. Interesting that you still are so quick to sling shit when you simply don't know the facts, however it still remains a libelous statement though.

[Drew]

Interesting that you still are so quick to sling shit when you simply don't know the facts, however it still remains a libelous statement though.

Oh really? The officials didn't fuck it up? The whole thing isn't a stupid mess that shouldn't have happened?

Please (without being libelous of course) point out my error? What I've said is what I've pieced together from bits and pieces. It's prolly full of holes or miscalculated, but fuck ups happened by cunts doing shit wrong.

[jellywrestler]

Oh really? The officials didn't fuck it up? The whole thing isn't a stupid mess that shouldn't have happened?

Please (without being libelous of course) point out my error? What I've said is what I've pieced together from bits and pieces. It's prolly full of holes or miscalculated, but fuck ups happened by cunts doing shit wrong.

fuck i hope you don't end up on any jury, ever.


I never said anything to that Drew, so don't put your random words into my mouth.

You are connected to the people that know more directly than I am, run off and ask them, then come back and put that side of the story here correctly, or better still; let them if they feel they want to as really after all as you pointed out, you weren't part of the team after Teretonga.

[Grumph]

Firstly - If the points position was made clear at the riders briefing in the morning of the next round, then all knew at that point just where they stood.
Your man certainly should have known at that point.

Secondly - If the error was picked up by a Steward checking a job which had probably been done by a club official rather than an MNZ one - then he's doing his job. Admittedly a tad late but we don't know the circs. It should probably have been published on the MNZ website, maybe the top 5 advised too...

Thirdly - If it hadn't been picked up in time for the last round, Rees would have a serious case for the Sports Tribunal.

[ellipsis]

...humans are just humans and there are lots of them...everyone who volunteers their time for whatever reason are included in the fold of humans, but are expected to be switched on machines...this shit is just lots of layers of humanness all taking place around a specific point in time and the blame has to be spread over a wide field, from the crews and riders and right through the spectrum of players all the way up to MNZ...sucks to be a human at times...there must be an app for replacing us, surely...

[wayne]

so 1/2 for 4 laps and
1/4 points for 6 laps

???????????????? how does that work ? on that system points for 2 laps 3/4 ? less race distance means more points ?

[scott411]

so 1/2 for 4 laps and
1/4 points for 6 laps

???????????????? how does that work ? on that system points for 2 laps 3/4 ? less race distance means more points ?

it came about because the current rule was not very good, it has already been proposed to change it before the final round,

[pritch]

I've read much of the thread but haven't commented, it's a long time since I was a member of the NZACU as it was then. When I came across news of what happened to Ant West the thought occurred that we don't know how lucky we are.

Asia runs on corruption and sadly Ant West has now discovered this to his cost.

http://www.bikesrepublic.com/featured/arrc-azlan-shah-bags-double-win-thailand-anthony-west-disqualified/

[ellipsis]

...watching TV3 motorsport yesterday and NZ Superbike Champion, Sloan Frost was advertising the Suzuki Brand...who is NZ Superbike Champ?...

[roogazza]

...watching TV3 motorsport yesterday and NZ Superbike Champion, Sloan Frost was advertising the Suzuki Brand...who is NZ Superbike Champ?...

I happened to see that too ! (tho I keep away from TV3 usually).

Rees is the Champ I believe. But maybe the Ad was made before the shit was sorted ?

[Grumph]

I happened to see that too ! (tho I keep away from TV3 usually).

Rees is the Champ I believe. But maybe the Ad was made before the shit was sorted ?

It might have been - but Suzuki NZ should still have added "subject to offical confirmation"

As it stands it appears that they're giving MNZ the fingers....

If Honda want to make something of it, they certainly can IMO.

[caspernz]

Certainly amusing to get a bike magazine with a Sloan Frost 2017 NZSBK champion poster from Suzuki in the centre of it. That was in the same week as Tony Rees was confirmed as 2017 champ...

[onearmedbandit]

It's all a bit of a fuck up from a spectators perspective...

[sidecar bob]

I feel like nobody really won it now. It was a complete waste of tyres.
Roll on next season with Jay Lawrence in the mix on a brand new GSXR1000.

[ellipsis]

I feel like nobody really won it now. It was a complete waste of tyres.



...there was some fantastic racing but yeah, this kind of makes a mockery of everyones efforts...the riders and teams and all the costs and energy involved...the punters who traveled to see the shows and who now wonder why...the organising crews...thank fuck most of us have big interests in the other classes, but the Superbike title is surely the cream on top to many who support the sport...

[jellywrestler]

...there was some fantastic racing but yeah, this kind of makes a mockery of everyones efforts...the riders and teams and all the costs and energy involved...the punters who traveled to see the shows and who now wonder why...the organising crews...thank fuck most of us have big interests in the other classes, but the Superbike title is surely the cream on top to many who support the sport...

sadly it comes down to a lot of riders either not knowing the rules, or knowing they're not right and not doing anything to tidy them up so this doesn't happen

[HenryDorsetCase]

sadly it comes down to a lot of riders either not knowing the rules, or knowing they're not right and not doing anything to tidy them up so this doesn't happen

time to get the lawyers involved...

[Grumph]

time to get the lawyers involved...

Well, it used to be rules 4.6 - Any claims made etc...must be correct and precise etc...

And rule 4.6.1 - Any infringement of this rule etc...shall render the person or body on behalf the advertisement is published...liable to, or may cause exclusion,suspension or disqualification.

Can't access the current regs so i'm unsure if it's all still there in that form - but IMO Honda could stir considerable shit if they wanted to.

Perhaps simply a clever advertising campaign - "don't be misled by fake news" - and a pic of Tony's cheesy grin....THIS is the real Champ....

[nodrog]

I feel like nobody really won it now. It was a complete waste of tyres.
Roll on next season with Jay Lawrence in the mix on a brand new GSXR1000.

I thought Chris Defori won?

[Drew]

I thought Chris Defori won?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Perhaps simply a clever advertising campaign - "don't be misled by fake news" - and a pic of Tony's cheesy grin....THIS is the real Champ....

From my very limited view of things so far, he'd certainly seem to be the actual champ fair and square.

[Drew]

From my very limited view of things so far, he'd certainly seem to be the actual champ fair and square.

From the actual races run and points awarded correctly at the time, he scored less points than Sloan. How did he win fair and square?

He has won the title on technicalities by exploiting poorly written rules.

[jellywrestler]

From the actual races run and points awarded correctly at the time, he scored less points than Sloan. How did he win fair and square?

He has won the title on technicalities by exploiting poorly written rules.

and the other side lost it due to poor team work

[sidecar bob]

From the actual races run and points awarded correctly at the time, he scored less points than Sloan. How did he win fair and square?

He has won the title on technicalities by exploiting poorly written rules.

What do you think would have happened if the boot was on the other foot? Not shit stirring, but honestly, what do you think?

[wayne]

are suzuki going to sports tribunal ? is there a cut of date for that be to done ?

[jellywrestler]

He has won the title on technicalities by exploiting poorly written rules.

It is clear that your side doesn't know the rules, nor do the other top two teams in Superbikes this year sadly.
the rules have been there in plain view and are very much part of the sport. Every license holder has a right to unpoorly write these rules, what contribution has your team made to tidy it up over time?

[Drew]

What do you think would have happened if the boot was on the other foot? Not shit stirring, but honestly, what do you think?

I would say the same thing with names the other way. I'm pretty sure the majority knows I don't give a Fuck who I upset.

I've just been told as much as to why I can expect to be a dumb labourer for the rest of my life.

[Drew]

It is clear that your side doesn't know the rules, nor do the other top two teams in Superbikes this year sadly.
the rules have been there in plain view and are very much part of the sport. Every license holder has a right to unpoorly write these rules, what contribution has your team made to tidy it up over time?
For the last fucking time Spyda, I don't have a side.

[Crasherfromwayback]

He has won the title on technicalities by exploiting poorly written rules.

Which would make him the champion fair and square no? Or have I missed something?

[Drew]

Which would make him the champion fair and square no? Or have I missed something?

It's not fair or square in my book.

Matters fuck all now though.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It's not fair or square in my book.

.

Rules and the interpretation of said rules, has always been a bone of contention, as long as competition has been in existence. Those that understand and use them to their advantage best, often come out on top.

Suzuki in NZ with Wire Wheel Katanas.

Suzuki in NZ with Black Pipe GSX1100's.

Kawasaki KR1SP's. :innocent:

[Drew]

Rules and the interpretation of said rules, has always been a bone of contention, as long as competition has been in existence. Those that understand and use them to their advantage best, often come out on top.

Suzuki in NZ with Wire Wheel Katanas.

Suzuki in NZ with Black Pipe GSX1100's.

Kawasaki KR1SP's. :innocent:
I'm all for that.

I see this clusterfuck to be different to those examples.

[sidecar bob]

I'm all for that.

I see this clusterfuck to be different to those examples.

Yeah, to be fair, those examples were blatant cheating.:facepalm:

[Grumph]

Yeah, to be fair, those examples were blatant cheating.:facepalm:

But done at a time when winning meant sales....I'm somewhat puzzled by Honda's lack of interest in putting the public correct.

If they're not going to publicise a win - in fact even seem reluctant to admit to winning.....Why support a team at all ?

[jellywrestler]

Yeah, to be fair, those examples were blatant cheating.:facepalm:

actually i disagree, on the black piper front they built five bikes in japan with certain people from NZ helping put them together, had them passed OK in NZ and modified another twenty or so in wanganui to the same specs. there is still a huge shroud of secrecy on the second batch and total denial even when presented with the facts from those who did some of it.
I bumped into Jim Doherty a few weeks ago who was the tech representative back then, he told me that there was nothing in the rule book to stop the twenty or so being done here as long as they were the same as the first five, meaning it was all done within the rules.
as for the katanas, apart from an upgrade to braided lines the bikes were entirely built in japan so no different to CB1100R's of the time

[jellywrestler]

But done at a time when winning meant sales....I'm somewhat puzzled by Honda's lack of interest in putting the public correct.

they have through social media, check your facebook account Greg....

[ellipsis]

...this is the national title for what we, (us), deem to be the pinnacle of our sport...is this lack of letting the world know who attained that pinnacle, an indication of how small and low profile our beloved sport is, in this country...sad really...

[Drew]

I reckon it's an embarrassment to most people.

[scott411]

i thought the ad said NZ superbike Champion, which since he was the 2016 champ is right,

if it says 2017 Superbike CHamp, then thats different,

but apart from a few of us talking about it on here, fuck all people will care, and i doubt anyone's decision to buy a new GSXR1000, or a CBR1000 will be affected by it,

[KawasakiKid]

Yeah, to be fair, those examples were blatant cheating.:facepalm:

Absolutely agree


I reckon it's an embarrassment to most people.

Also surely an embarrassment regarding the amount of money and effort Suzuki has thrown at the NZ Championships since the late '70s where almost nothing has been forthcoming from the other manufacturers/importers. In theory there should be a number of manufacturers fighting for the win.....but it is usually many Suzukis against one or two interlopers. Personally I like European bikes but one cannot deny that Suzuki is a dominant force in NZ for many years.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, to be fair, those examples were blatant cheating.:facepalm:

Dunno what you mean!! :Punk:

[sidecar bob]

Dunno what you mean!! :Punk:

I mean kx125 barrels on a kr250, that's what I mean.:bleh:

[husaberg]

http://www.kr-1s.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2099


6851 SP No.1 - Peter Mc... (Wellington 1991) 6+ owners
#68** SP No.2 - ?rider ...chassis yet to be confirmed
#68** SP No.3 - ?rider ...chassis yet to be confirmed
#68** SP No.4 - Stephen Ma... , (Omaha Sept 1991) 12+ owners
#68** SP No.5 - Neil Ne... , (Papakura July 1991) 11 owners
#68** SP No.6 - K-Force, (New Plymouth Dec 1991) ?rider 16+ owners
#73** SP No.7 - Robert Wy... (Auckland Nov 1992) 1 owner
#73** SP No.8 - Robert Ha... (Palmerston North Dec 1993) second owner? 6 owners
#73** SP No.9 - Darren Sm... (Te Kauwhata Aug 1991) 12 owners
#73** SP No.10 - ?rider (Panmure Feb 1991) 6 owners

10 bikes made for New Zealand 250cc Sports Production racing = KR-1S SP (Sport Production) ... the C3A variant of the KR-1S
and just like a bad war movie Kawasaki NZ (distributors) are disallowing any knowledge of the SP
(maybe it was just the guy I got on the phone... "there's no such thing as an SP.... an R model doesnt have a close ratio gearbox")...
the photocopies above (the parts fiches - I have copies) and the people that have owned them would argue otherwise... very disheartening

Piston and cylinder production stopped in 1992, D models the year earlier. RIP

the KR-1SP featured...
much larger 35mm Keihin PWK Carbs from the 'R' model (with fuel tap, throttle cable, intake rubbers)
Slightly higher compression ratio (skimmed head 8.0:1 CR)
Modified cylinder porting


Out of interest do KX cylinders actually fit on Kr1's?
Cr125 ones fit on NSr250's and age appropriate ones also fit on NSR400's.

[scott411]

http://www.kr-1s.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2099


Out of interest do KX cylinders actually fit on Kr1's?
Cr125 ones fit on NSr250's and age appropriate ones also fit on NSR400's.

thats information is not really right, anyone that still works at kawasaki nz that remembers it will tell you, as will anyone else that new about it,

enough bikes to meet the rules where made, same with the black pipers, and the wire wheel models,
no mater how you wright the rules, someone will figure out a way to work them to their advantage,

[husaberg]

thats information is not really right, anyone that still works at kawasaki nz that remembers it will tell you, as will anyone else that new about it,

enough bikes to meet the rules where made, same with the black pipers, and the wire wheel models,
no mater how you right the rules, someone will figure out a way to work them to their advantage,

I can't speak to the validity of the information, i only remebered seeing where it was posted.
The tighter the rules the more people tend to bend them.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Out of interest do KX cylinders actually fit on Kr1's?
.

Not as far as I can remember. A quick check of base gasket part numbers will (obviously) tell you though.


thats information is not really right, anyone that still works at kawasaki nz that remembers it will tell you, as will anyone else that new about it,

enough bikes to meet the rules where made, same with the black pipers, and the wire wheel models,
,

Correct. It's not cheating if you make a bike that fits withing the rules. it IS cheating though, if you hot rod fuck out of a bike homologated as a slug. Queue RGV's, NSR's and TZR's.

[sidecar bob]

Not as far as I can remember. A quick check of base gasket part numbers will (obviously) tell you though.
.

Not if the transfers are bigger where they meet the crankcase.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I mean kx125 barrels on a kr250, that's what I mean.:bleh:

Not quite how the KR1SP came about. I happened to own a KX125 at the time, as did a good mate of mine. I'd noticed the KR1R in Japan had 35mm carbs (as opposed to the KR1S's 28's), so decided to fit the 35's to see what happened. After all. RGV's etc all had 32's?

The diff was massive. So instead of spending the coin on the close ratio box of the Japan only 'R' version, we did another couple of mods our selves. And built (10 others for sale) enough to make then legal.

Cheating? No. Why is it, if you build a bike legal by the rules in place at the time? Surely, cheating is what you're doing, when you modify a bike, outside of the std setup, to beat the guy next to you on the very same bike?

Because that's what was going on, when I was involved in 250cc *Production* racing in NZ.

For the record...not much had changed, when I was involved in Twin Sport 883 racing many years later.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not if the transfers are bigger where they meet the crankcase.

Wouldn't matter anyway. Their power valve system(s) were totally different.

[jasonu]

...I'm somewhat puzzled by Honda's lack of interest in putting the public correct.
?

That's because the public doesn't give a fuck.

[Grumph]

That's because the public doesn't give a fuck.

Well, someone at Honda doesn't either...

Sponsorship 101....pay for a race team and don't get results = tax writeoff.

The less common version is - pay for a race team and actually get results = advertise the fuck out of it to encourage sales.

If they're on facebook advertising it, then obviously I'm not in their target demographic....

[roogazza]

That's because the public doesn't give a fuck.

As far back as I can remember it's always been that way. :(
It's the guys doing it, that think its important.

[ellipsis]

The first results with TR being named champion that I have seen.

http://go.hondamotorbikes.co.nz/honda-champions-competition.html?mktg_medium=link&mktg_source=email&mktg_campaign=bwh_championship&mktg_content=competition&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTV

[Drew]

Current NZSBK champion is Sloan Frost. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Weeeeeeeeeee

[jellywrestler]

Current NZSBK champion is Sloan Frost. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Weeeeeeeeeee

so if he is why his he taking it further then?

[Drew]

so if he is why his he taking it further then?

I dunno what you mean.

Results are currently as of end of play at Hampton downs.

Appeals process has to start again.

[jellywrestler]

I dunno what you mean.

Results are currently as of end of play at Hampton downs.

Appeals process has to start again.

why don't you get your facts right Drew, Sloan is appealing it now so if he is the champion then why appeal it?????

[Drew]

why don't you get your facts right Drew, Sloan is appealing it now so if he is the champion then why appeal it?????
The appeal is finished. The outcome was...Choppa on the top spot.

[Drew]

Sooooo, about those facts not being straight...

[Crasherfromwayback]

The appeal is finished. The outcome was...Choppa on the top spot.

What a cluster fuck! So, this time the right guy won!? Looks like certain rules need to be re written. Has Sloan got the new GSXR yet?

[Drew]

What a cluster fuck! So, this time the right guy won!? Looks like certain rules need to be re written. Has Sloan got the new GSXR yet?
The protests of the Rees' still need to be considered again.

He has one in Australia. Dunno when they arrive here.

[jellywrestler]

The steward corrected a mistake in the results, but after the day had concluded.


Sooooo, about those facts not being straight...

so given the fact that you only new some of the stuff, and probably still only know some of the stuff in reality your credibility is often not worth a cunt full of cold snow.
Also the fact that i talked to sloan mid week last week and it wasn't resolved why the fuck should this time be any different Drew?
Sloan text me tonight with the truth, i'd believe him any day.

nice to see generally people not slinging shit on here generally about this too.


as it remains, your above statement is still slanderous BTW

[jellywrestler]

The protests of the Rees' still need to be considered again.

He has one in Australia. Dunno when they arrive here.

someone here has one being race prepped at the moment.

[onearmedbandit]

And still from an outsiders perspective it all looks like a fucking shamble.

[Drew]

so given the fact that you only new some of the stuff, and probably still only know some of the stuff in reality your credibility is often not worth a cunt full of cold snow.
Also the fact that i talked to sloan mid week last week and it wasn't resolved why the fuck should this time be any different Drew?
Sloan text me tonight with the truth, i'd believe him any day.

nice to see generally people not slinging shit on here generally about this too.


as it remains, your above statement is still slanderous BTW
I dunno what the fuck your problem is Spyda, but stick it up your fucken arse cunt.

What is it you think you know that I don't? Are you saying I'm wrong? Try and make some fucking sense for once.

[tigertim20]

so, without all the ranting, shit slinging, and arguing, who, as of today is the champion, who made the decision on who the champion is, and through what process did they arrive at that conclusion?

Im confused from all the too-ing and fro-ing and bickering!?!?!?

[Crasherfromwayback]

And still from an outsiders perspective it all looks like a fucking shamble.

Amateur at best.

[Drew]

so, without all the ranting, shit slinging, and arguing, who, as of today is the champion, who made the decision on who the champion is, and through what process did they arrive at that conclusion?

Im confused from all the too-ing and fro-ing and bickering!?!?!?
Sloan is the champ right now as he was at season end.

Tony Rees and one of his kids each protested a different thing. Those protests were upheld.

Sloan appealed those decisions. His appeal was successful.

The Rees protests (or new ones, it's fucken convoluted and hard to keep up) are to be considered again/still.

[Katman]

Tags: Fanboi

[jellywrestler]

I dunno what the fuck your problem is Spyda,

What is it you think you know that I don't? Are you saying I'm wrong?

My problem is people running around with their own takes on it, it's a dangerous sport, it saddens me that it's like this each and every rider rode as hard as they could, I have my own opinion on who was the best rider, but that's my own opinion to be shared verbally, not blasted all around to have people make up their own minds, i'll let the people who the appeals appear in front of decide that.


If the rules were flawed each and every license holder has a right to change that, many know they're not right and choose not to do anything about it, many don't know the rules as they are, i can give you personal one on one stories about the top three superbike teams who did not know what I believe are clear and basic rules this season. They spend so much time and money etc why don't they know the rules, they don't change often, they're not hard to remember, they are as vital to the sport as bike prep and riding in some cases.

There are many people who believe in our sport as a good one, to me it's top of my list and i've always believed Kiwi's punch above their weight on an international basis and true it's not what it was years ago, but it will never be as times have changed, sales have changed, the bikes are so technical and powerful that there are few people who are capable of riding and setting a bike up to be truly able to win, let alone the cost.

all this shit justs drags us down in both our eyes and others looking outside.


The steward corrected a mistake in the results, but after the day had concluded.
that is incorrect and a libellous statement, as was pointed out when you first posted it over a month ago and you still haven't bothered to seek the truth.

[Doppleganger]

A fukin know it all official turned up a week after the fact and claimed the result was wrong, turns out he was wrong (but he'll never admit to it)
At Taupo Tony and nearly all the rest completed a whole lap and half of another before the red flag came out meaning when they went back a lap Sloan was already out so shouldn't of got half points as this fukwit know it all official claimed after the fact.

I hope this prick doesn't get to fuck with the sport anymore.

[jellywrestler]

A fukin know it all official turned up a week after the fact and claimed the result was wrong, turns out he was wrong (but he'll never admit to it)
At Taupo Tony and nearly all the rest completed a whole lap and half of another before the red flag came out meaning when they went back a lap Sloan was already out so shouldn't of got half points as this fukwit know it all official claimed after the fact.

I hope this prick doesn't get to fuck with the sport anymore.


rubbish, there's so many incorrect parts to that that i've decided to print it off and use it to wipe my arse on it.

[scott411]

ill wait till the offical release comes out before i take it as fact,

since there is nothing on the MNZ website, and both the press releases from the Rees's appeals are there,

but I doubted Chopper and his supporters would let it lye, just as this result (what ever it is) will be appealed by the Rees's,

I can see this going on for a while,

[jellywrestler]

ill wait till the offical release comes out before i take it as fact,

since there is nothing on the MNZ website, and both the press releases from the Rees's appeals are there,

but I doubted Chopper and his supporters would let it lye, just as this result (what ever it is) will be appealed by the Rees's,

I can see this going on for a while,

it's like a giraffe getting stuck in quick sand, so much time thinking about shit that went wrong and whatever the end is it won't be much fun then....

[roogazza]

ill wait till the offical release comes out before i take it as fact,

since there is nothing on the MNZ website, and both the press releases from the Rees's appeals are there,
but I doubted Chopper and his supporters would let it lye, just as this result (what ever it is) will be appealed by the Rees's,
I can see this going on for a while,

Maybe its time the Kingdom of MNZ reported whats going on in NZ ? So that the,about five people who care , can rest easy ? lol

[Doppleganger]

rubbish, there's so many incorrect parts to that that i've decided to print it off and use it to wipe my arse on it.

Fact 1, Know it all fuckwit official turns up a week later and decrees result incorrect
Fact 2, Tony and the majority of the field completed well over 1 lap until the red flag came out
Fact 3, Sloan can not be awarded half points for a race he crashed out of over a lap and a half earlier
Fact 4, Fuckwit official was proved wrong in Tony's appeal

Better find something else to wipe your arse with buddy

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fact 1, Know it all fuckwit official turns up a week later and decrees result incorrect
Fact 2, Tony and the majority of the field completed well over 1 lap until the red flag came out
Fact 3, Sloan can not be awarded half points for a race he crashed out of over a lap and a half earlier
Fact 4, Fuckwit official was proved wrong in Tony's appeal

Better find something else to wipe your arse with buddy

All I can say is, *if* they're the facts, how could any cunt argue?

[riffer]

All I can say is, *if* they're the facts, how could any cunt argue?

Because some people would still be arguing long after their arse had caught fire.

:no:

[jasonu]

Just how many times can the participants involved appeal and reappeal a decision and do the (re)appealed decisions go to a higher level to be decided on or do the same bunch of wallies that made the previous and now (re)appealed decisions decide on the issues they have already heard or reheard?

[sidecar bob]

Just how many times can the participants involved appeal and reappeal a decision and do the (re)appealed decisions go to a higher level to be decided on or do the same bunch of wallies that made the previous and now (re)appealed decisions decide on the issues they have already heard or reheard?

Because there is a big pink elephant in the room.

[James Deuce]

Because there is a big pink elephant in the room.
Fuck OFF! I'm not even involved in this. I've told you before.

Fucking sidecar racers...

[Grumph]

it's like a giraffe getting stuck in quick sand, so much time thinking about shit that went wrong and whatever the end is it won't be much fun then....


Because there is a big pink elephant in the room.

Lay off the beastiality guys....it just confuses the masses - and the buggers shit everywhere.

I suspect that the next level is a sub-committee of the Executive formed to hear any re-lodged protests.
And may god protect us....

[jellywrestler]

Fact 1, Know it all fuckwit official turns up a week later and decrees result incorrect
Fact 2, Tony and the majority of the field completed well over 1 lap until the red flag came out
Fact 3, Sloan can not be awarded half points for a race he crashed out of over a lap and a half earlier
Fact 4, Fuckwit official was proved wrong in Tony's appeal

Better find something else to wipe your arse with buddy

more likely have a curry so i shit more, i was their, i was commentating, i saw what happened and the timing of it.....
where were you and what was your role at the meeting?

[Crasherfromwayback]

more likely have a curry so i shit more, i was their, i was commentating, i saw what happened and the timing of it.....

So then...what the fuck did happen?

[Drew]

All I can say is, *if* they're the facts, how could any cunt argue?
Lap record at Taupo must be 45 seconds if that was correct. Trust me, the record is still near enough to twice that.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Trust me, the record is still near enough to twice that.

Not if I was there. The older I get etc etc... :innocent:

[merv]

So excuse my ignorance but is there a problem with the rules around red flagging and the splitting of the race into parts and part points and who is entitled to the points? Is that what this argument is about and are the rules not written well enough for it not to be in dispute?

[Crasherfromwayback]

So excuse my ignorance but is there a problem with the rules around red flagging and the splitting of the race into parts and part points and who is entitled to the points? Is that what this argument is about and are the rules not written well enough for it not to be in dispute?

Fucking weird. I'm only joining dots, so could be well wrong. But if Sloan crashed out, causing a red flag to come out...why should you even get any points? You're in the fucking kitty litter.

[Drew]

Fucking weird. I'm only joining dots, so could be well wrong. But if Sloan crashed out, causing a red flag to come out...why should you even get any points? You're in the fucking kitty litter.

I thought the same thing. But the rule of going back a lap is the fairest way to do it, because it might not be the crashers own fault.

One could argue that each crash should be reviewed and points only given to those without fault, but it would create more situations like we're in now.

[sharp2183]

I thought the same thing. But the rule of going back a lap is the fairest way to do it, because it might not be the crashers own fault.

One could argue that each crash should be reviewed and points only given to those without fault, but it would create more situations like we're in now.

Not really. If you crash and there is no red flag then you are out with no points. If it's not your fault, still no points. That's not 'fair' either but it removes any ambiguity, and no one can argue that they would have won etc. Why should you be able to flip this around in a red flag situation? The way it is now there is ambiguity, and people sure as hell are arguing.

This particular event is a great example. Sloan crashes (his fault), he gets the points anyway then goes on to (apparently) win the title. Rules aside, that's not fair. That said those are the rules and if I was him I'd want to take advantage too. It's the rules that are wrong, not the competitors use of them.

[jellywrestler]

One could argue that each crash should be reviewed and points only given to those without fault, but it would create more situations like we're in now.

impossible to police as there are some tracks where corners are hidden and whose going to make the call on fault when no-one has seen the crash? At the end of the day if it wasn't serious enough to bring out a red flag they would not finish the race and then we would have to judge each and every incident.....

[Crasherfromwayback]

But the rule of going back a lap is the fairest way to do it, because it might not be the crashers own fault.



So what. It's how it goes sometimes. Nicky Hayden nearly lost his chance of his title when Perdro skittled him, then Rossi lost it to him when he binned it. Suck it up. Reading this, that's not a title I'd feel happy winning.

[merv]

Agree crasher, it is quite different in my view if a person that crashed did it after the red flag is shown to that person because the race is already stopped a la Jim Richards at Bathurst that brought on the "pack of arseholes" response. However if the race is running normally and someone crashes out like Rossi and Marquez did last week it makes no sense they should get any points at all (those two didn't) just because they then caused a red flag and then it is used to save their bacon points wise. If the rules don't work in this way there is moral problem even if technically that person can then say "but the rules say I can have the points".

[SVboy]

Not really. If you crash and there is no red flag then you are out with no points. If it's not your fault, still no points. That's not 'fair' either but it removes any ambiguity, and no one can argue that they would have won etc. Why should you be able to flip this around in a red flag situation? The way it is now there is ambiguity, and people sure as hell are arguing.

This particular event is a great example. Sloan crashes (his fault), he gets the points anyway then goes on to (apparently) win the title. Rules aside, that's not fair. That said those are the rules and if I was him I'd want to take advantage too. It's the rules that are wrong, not the competitors use of them.

Logical well-reasoned post. KB in shock!

[Drew]

This is the red flag rule the world over. I dunno what you're all whinging about.

[Crasherfromwayback]

This is the red flag rule the world over. I dunno what you're all whinging about.

I'm certainly not whinging, because it effects me not. But certain people obviously are....

[Reckless]

Latest update Back To Chopper Again

Off his Facebook
The Sports Tribunal have ruled that MNZ had denied me of Natural Justice in the Appeals lodged against the New Zealand Superbike Championship. The results from the Judiciary Committee have been quashed and reinstated me as the NZSBK Champion. I was hoping on a complete decision as it now drags the process out and back to MNZ Judiciary Committee. Unfortunately this creates a little more uncertainty and that isn't nice for anyone involved. Sloan Frost Motorsport CycleOnline.com.au MCNews.com.au New Zealand Superbike and Road Racing Championships NZSBK Championship BikesportNZ.com

http://www.sportstribunal.org.nz/decisions/all-decisions/search

And Mnz Have to re hear the case and repay Chopper the $500 it cost him for this decision.
Its there in full if you click on on the decision link.

[nodrog]

Agree crasher, it is quite different in my view if a person that crashed did it after the red flag is shown to that person because the race is already stopped a la Jim Richards at Bathurst that brought on the "pack of arseholes" response. However if the race is running normally and someone crashes out like Rossi and Marquez did last week it makes no sense they should get any points at all (those two didn't) just because they then caused a red flag and then it is used to save their bacon points wise. If the rules don't work in this way there is moral problem even if technically that person can then say "but the rules say I can have the points".

Jim Richards never crashed after the red flag.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm sticking with post # 92.

[scott411]

interesting decision,

I would be interested in what Choppers submission is, and if it will overturn the last decision, it is more about the procedure than the decision itself,

personally i agreed with the findings of the appeal in regards to the hampton downs stoppages, its how I read the rules, (and would have enforced them if i was in charge as well)

with out seeing the lap score data from taupo its a bit hard to comment on that one,

[jasonu]

interesting decision,


with out seeing the lap score data from taupo its a bit hard to comment on that one,

Not having all the facts rarely stops anyone commenting on KB...

[jellywrestler]

someone crashes out like Rossi and Marquez did last week

it's a good thing i watched the race live else you would've ruined it for me....

[jasonu]

it's a good thing i watched the race live else you would've ruined it for me....

It was 3 days ago mate. I think the spoiler grace period has expired.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It was 3 days ago mate. I think the spoiler grace period has expired.

4. It's Thursday here. :bleh: Although it was early Mon morning I guess...not technically Sunday...

[jellywrestler]

It was 3 days ago mate. I think the spoiler grace period has expired.

yeah, to be fair most people have learn't by now, and those that haven't have been dropped from my info feed.

[quickbuck]

It was 3 days ago mate. I think the spoiler grace period has expired.
Um, some of us are too busy during the week to watch TV ... In fact the weekend isn't looking good either. Might as well delete it to free up space for more rubbish I won't watch.

[mr bucketracer]

Um, some of us are too busy during the week to watch TV ... In fact the weekend isn't looking good either. Might as well delete it to free up space for more rubbish I won't watch.you stop working for the goverment then ? lol

[quickbuck]

you stop working for the goverment then ? lol
Still do, but have a business to run too....

[merv]

it's a good thing i watched the race live else you would've ruined it for me....

How on earth do you get by given how many feeds are everywhere with the results displayed immediately after the race like on Facebook and other places?

[Doppleganger]

it's a good thing i watched the race live else you would've ruined it for me....

Then you would have seen Tony complete the lap that Sloan crashed on and got half way round the next lap before the red flag came out.

[nzspokes]

impossible to police as there are some tracks where corners are hidden and whose going to make the call on fault when no-one has seen the crash? At the end of the day if it wasn't serious enough to bring out a red flag they would not finish the race and then we would have to judge each and every incident.....

Shame they cant find a sparky to fit a basic CCTV system which would solve that problem......

[Drew]

Shame they cant find a sparky to fit a basic CCTV system which would solve that problem......

The tracks would charge for the use. Running a round doesn't exactly turn a profit now.

[scott411]

Shame they cant find a sparky to fit a basic CCTV system which would solve that problem......

has TV replays and video refs stopped argmuments in any other sports? its seemed to make rugby have more arguments,

camera angles can make the same incident look different,

[Doppleganger]

has TV replays and video refs stopped argmuments in any other sports? its seemed to make rugby have more arguments,

camera angles can make the same incident look different,

There is plenty of footage of what went on and for how long ;-)

[jellywrestler]

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................

[jellywrestler]

How on earth do you get by given how many feeds are everywhere with the results displayed immediately after the race like on Facebook and other places?

as said most people have learn't to respect those who don't watch the race live, even a piccie of the podium stuffs it up these days

[Doppleganger]

as said most people have learn't to respect those who don't watch the race live, even a piccie of the podium stuffs it up these days

Mate, you were watching HD live and had Chopper crashed :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[jellywrestler]

Mate, you were watching HD live and had Chopper crashed :laugh::laugh::laugh:
guilty as charged. The crash happened out of my sight and as chopper had gone through I'd picked it as him, not a backmarker that had come passed the start finish straight while I was watching the lead bikes., there were four others in the commentary suite and neither of them saw what happened and nobody corrected me the rest of the day, or at prizegiving.
i've only got one set of eyes and both watch the same thing, but i've also got a hand and i'll put that up and own that one.

[sharp2183]

Still no winner?

[CHOPPA]

Still no winner?

Nope nothing yet, wont be for a while. We have Judiciary next which is around a month away then Sports Tribunal which would be about another month so probably August

[sidecar bob]

Shall we just write this one of as a waste of rescources & start again?

[CHOPPA]

Shall we just write this one of as a waste of rescources & start again?

Na, just means we get to enjoy the competitiveness of the Championship for 9 months rather than 2 :)

[Mental Trousers]

Na, just means we get to enjoy the competitiveness of the Championship for 9 months rather than 2 :)

I wonder if the TAB is giving odds on the 2018 championship being awarded before the 2017 championship.

[Grumph]

Na, just means we get to enjoy the competitiveness of the Championship for 9 months rather than 2 :)

Well, no, only a few do...What about seeing if the hearings can be live streamed ?

And in the meantime, Suzuki are getting the interest on the money......

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well, no, only a few do...What about seeing if the hearings can be live streamed ?

And in the meantime, Suzuki are getting the interest on the money......

The whole thing is shameful.

[scrivy]

Settle it with a soggy biscuit race.......

[scott411]

Nope nothing yet, wont be for a while. We have Judiciary next which is around a month away then Sports Tribunal which would be about another month so probably August

is there already something that has gone into the sports tribunal? or do you think whoever losers will automatically go there and not accept the decision?

[roogazza]

Niki Lauda has been known to swap some of his Trophies for as little as a car wash.
I wonder what a NZ Trophy is worth. :laugh:

[sidecar bob]

Niki Lauda has been known to swap some of his Trophies for as little as a car wash.
I wonder what a NZ Trophy is worth. :laugh:

They're just empty cups.

[jellywrestler]

They're just empty cups.

like Angelina Jolies?

[CHOPPA]

is there already something that has gone into the sports tribunal? or do you think whoever losers will automatically go there and not accept the decision?

It can go back but if I lost the decision wouldn't be to automatically go back to the tribunal

[Drew]

Once it's been through the appeals process properly, I doubt the sports tribunal would hear it again.

[Doppleganger]

Is there a date set for the re-hearing of the appeal?
Will it be before racing resumes!?

[Doppleganger]

Bumpty bump

New season is only 15ish weeks away, could be a lot of 1's on number boards at this rate ;-)

[Drew]

It'll be resolved soon.

[jasonu]

It'll be resolved soon.

Hopefully (for the contestants at least) before the next season begins.

[scott411]

It'll be resolved soon.

all we really know is the latest appeal hearing will be held soon,

[Drew]

all we really know is the latest appeal hearing will be held soon,

I doubt either guy will appeal the decision from this hearing.

[nzspokes]

I doubt either guy will appeal the decision from this hearing.

Untill.........

They do.

[scott411]

Tony Rees is the Champ, (according to his own facebook page,)

https://www.facebook.com/TeamReesRacing/?hc_ref=ARR_V91h9cPZulCz0wivYLoRPSPthD6eu0_JtFRgIR XiPPUYyk6TBFBMx02tqVdjXTI&fref=nf

[Crasherfromwayback]

Tony Rees is the Champ, (according to his own facebook page,)

https://www.facebook.com/TeamReesRacing/?hc_ref=ARR_V91h9cPZulCz0wivYLoRPSPthD6eu0_JtFRgIR XiPPUYyk6TBFBMx02tqVdjXTI&fref=nf

True class.

[merv]

Interesting to see the video footage, because it certainly clarified a lot, as to me I thought we were being spun a line that the other rider was in the lead when he crashed. This more clearly shows just how cleanly Tony won that race and it would seem there should never had been a dispute.

[Drew]

Interesting to see the video footage, because it certainly clarified a lot, as to me I thought we were being spun a line that the other rider was in the lead when he crashed. This more clearly shows just how cleanly Tony won that race and it would seem there should never had been a dispute.
Arguably.

But if could watch that video and point out which lap Sloan crossed the line in the 6th position he was awarded.

[Drew]

Here's a video from a WSS race that the result had to be taken more than one lap back because the whole field hadn't completed the last one that the leader had.

https://youtu.be/YMj7IlgpGTk

[Crasherfromwayback]

Arguably.

But if could watch that video and point out which lap Sloan crossed the line in the 6th position he was awarded.

Why was the red flag even brought out when Sloan crashed out? Did his bike end up on the track or something?

[Drew]

From an Australian time keeping official.

Under the Australian General Competition Rules (GCR's), in the example you have provided below, the results would go back to the end of the 4th lap, as not everyone has completed the 5th. That's generally hard for most people to understand, as for most of them, they have complete a further lap and part of another when they see the red flag.

[Drew]

Why was the red flag even brought out when Sloan crashed out? Did his bike end up on the track or something?

He was hurt and the ambo picked him up.

[CHOPPA]

Yeah the Red flag was from my crash, I got out of the way but I thought id possibly broken my ankle. Problem comes as I had crossed the finish line first at the start of lap 5, race was red flagged before all the riders in the race had finished 5th lap even though Tony obviously finished the 5th lap.

Official records have Stewards instructing results to be taken from start of 5th lap but results were taken from start of 6th lap somehow. Steward changed the result back to start of 5th lap as originally instructed.

Im not 100% sure if I will appeal the decision, I did crash due to my bike siezing which is hard to swollow but I believe the results were correct to be taken back to the start of the 5th not 6th. What rubs salt in the wound is that both Tony and I jumped the start by a mile in the Tri Series, I got 20 sec penalty and Tony didn't get any handing him the Championship and me 3rd. So the rules are what we need to run by.

Tony and Mitch have handled themselves really respectfully I must say, they have been challenging MNZ and not me directly, for me its more difficult because I preferred the original ruling by MNZ so I basically need to challenge the boys complaints directly. I have been disappointed with MNZ due to the fact they completely disregarded all my evidence, they clearly didn't have any intention of hearing my case. In fact the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee openly stated he had not even read my submission as he couldn't open the PDF file. Amongst other things.

No one really wins, however it turns out, it really has cocked up the Championship but it has intensified rivalries on track and online. Its given Tony a little more reason to come back for another season and the feild looks strong, 2017/18 is going to be a great year.

[Doppleganger]

Good reply Choppa, but wasn't Tony on lap 7 when the red flag came out meaning the results go back a lap to lap 6 where he crossed the finish line in first etc and you crashed on lap 5 meaning you couldn't have been included anyway?

[Drew]

Good reply Choppa, but wasn't Tony on lap 7 when the red flag came out meaning the results go back a lap to lap 6 where he crossed the finish line in first etc and you crashed on lap 5 meaning you couldn't have been included anyway?The whole field wasn't on lap 7. Hense they were instructed to take the results back to lap 5.

[Doppleganger]

Where does it say the whole field has to be on the same lap? what if it was a little further into the race and people had been lapped etc.
I thought it always refereed to the lead lap - even though it doesn't say that either

[Drew]

Where does it say the whole field has to be on the same lap? what if it was a little further into the race and people had been lapped etc.
I thought it always refereed to the lead lap - even though it doesn't say that either
Your argument is the reason I posted two examples of how the rest of the world do it.

Lapped riders stay a lap down, that's a stupid question.

[scott411]

without seeing the official MNZ decision, and only reading whats on the Rees facebook page,

as i understand it basically Sloans appeal was thrown out, because the points were changed without a protest being filed, and that after they were changed Ree's appealed, so the argument of weather the red flag race points should be counted as the end of lap 4, where Sloan was leading, or the end of lap 5 where all the superbike riders had crossed the line, but not all the supersport riders is really of no consequence,

you can not protest anything after 30 minutes after the results are posted, so as a lesson, if you disagree with the results, file the protest , you can always withdraw it,

on another note, did they make a ruling on the last part of the hampton down race/ was it worth 1/2 points or 1/4 points?

[Drew]

without seeing the official MNZ decision, and only reading whats on the Rees facebook page,

as i understand it basically Sloans appeal was thrown out, because the points were changed without a protest being filed, and that after they were changed Ree's appealed, so the argument of weather the red flag race points should be counted as the end of lap 4, where Sloan was leading, or the end of lap 5 where all the superbike riders had crossed the line, but not all the supersport riders is really of no consequence,

you can not protest anything after 30 minutes after the results are posted, so as a lesson, if you disagree with the results, file the protest , you can always withdraw it,

on another note, did they make a ruling on the last part of the hampton down race/ was it worth 1/2 points or 1/4 points?
Cool. Find the lap that Sloan crossed the line in sixth place. Here's a tip, he didn't.

So the results are wrong.

If results can't be changed without a protest, how was Harris stripped of the title he had when he cheated?

[Doppleganger]

He should never of been awarded points as was done on the day, he crashed out. no one complained about it until someone not even there on the day decided to change the points a week later.
No where does it say the whole field has to cross the line for it to be deemed a new lap in the race, the leader determines what lap the race is on not the last guy.
Tony had finished the lap Choppa crashed on and had done a fair portion of the next lap.
With due respect to Sloan sitting in the infield with a sore ankle for over a lap shouldn't score you any points.

Have the rules been modified so this doesn't happen again?

[Drew]

He should never of been awarded points as was done on the day, he crashed out. no one complained about it until someone not even there on the day decided to change the points a week later.
No where does it say the whole field has to cross the line for it to be deemed a new lap in the race, the leader determines what lap the race is on not the last guy.
Tony had finished the lap Choppa crashed on and had done a fair portion of the next lap.
With due respect to Sloan sitting in the infield with a sore ankle for over a lap shouldn't score you any points.

Have the rules been modified so this doesn't happen again?

FIM and Dorna don't agree with you. But clearly you know better.

[scott411]

Cool. Find the lap that Sloan crossed the line in sixth place. Here's a tip, he didn't.

So the results are wrong.

If results can't be changed without a protest, how was Harris stripped of the title he had when he cheated?

if they took the results from the end of the lap 5, he would have been marked 6th because everyone else had completed another lap, so he was not lap scored that lap so ended up 6th, a lap less than the leaders, but the first of the riders to complete the lap before (if their had been other riders not crossed the finish flag in his class before the red flag came out,

and the Harris/Tuckerman incident was another bad look for MNZ, and since MNZ don\t have an online list of all champions, I dont know if it ever went past the point of a facebook post,

[Doppleganger]

FIM and Dorna don't agree with you. But clearly you know better.

got sand in your vagina or something?

I'm not being a smart ass just seeking some clarification here. Have the rules been changed to fix this or not, have they adopted FIM or Dorna ruling or not.
Ask yourself if a rider who crashes out is entitled to points? everywhere else in the world says no as far as I'm aware.
Even BSB wont let you start a a restarted race even on the bike you crashed on.

FFS have a piece of cake or whatever calms you down

[jellywrestler]

a piece of cake mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cake...

[Drew]

if they took the results from the end of the lap 5, he would have been marked 6th because everyone else had completed another lap, so he was not lap scored that lap so ended up 6th, a lap less than the leaders, but the first of the riders to complete the lap before (if their had been other riders not crossed the finish flag in his class before the red flag came out,

and the Harris/Tuckerman incident was another bad look for MNZ, and since MNZ don\t have an online list of all champions, I dont know if it ever went past the point of a facebook post,So it's ok to give him some points he didn't score (according to your logic) bit not more?


got sand in your vagina or something?

I'm not being a smart ass just seeking some clarification here. Have the rules been changed to fix this or not, have they adopted FIM or Dorna ruling or not.
Ask yourself if a rider who crashes out is entitled to points? everywhere else in the world says no as far as I'm aware.
Even BSB wont let you start a a restarted race even on the bike you crashed on.

FFS have a piece of cake or whatever calms you down
Every organisation awards points to the whole field on a count back. It is to stop people being taken out.

[jellywrestler]

vagina mmmmmm vagina...

[Drew]

Whether you agree with the rule or not is moot. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

It gets even worse when you hear what a total fuck up MNZ have made of the whole process.

[jellywrestler]

one only hopes that those directly involved in this, and those indirectly involved take a good look at the rulebook and tidy up rules that aren't clearly worded.
like the jump start rule, 'a black board must be displayed' it didn't say where or to who, could've been in a cafe in auckland for all we know.... here's the new rule, sorted.

14.3b A time penalty of 20 seconds to apply to any rider jumping the start, this
penalty to be added at the end of the race. The offending rider is to be
notified of the penalty within 30 minutes of the race/part race using a
Competitor Infringement Notice.



and that the riders actually familiarise themselves with the rules too, and if they have doubts on the wording ask for clarification from the road race commisioner, or a steward, this way things will get tidied.
Sadly outside of this incident I personally saw three incidents by our top three superbike riders somewhere over the season where they did not know common rules.

[scott411]

So it's ok to give him some points he didn't score (according to your logic) bit not more?



What i feel, and what the rules allow for is totally different, i don't think you should get any points for crashing out of a race and causing a red flag,

if you are used to racing Cross Countries then what i am explaining makes a bit more sense, (in cross countries the finish flag comes out at a time limit, no matter who is next over the line)
the finish line is the recording of every lap, just because you cross the line on lap 4 in first, does not mean you are first in a race, when the red flag came out on lap 6 all the riders that completed lap 5 were ahead of Choppa as they had completed the lap 5, he had not, since under the current rule we do not exclude the fallen rider, he was 6th in the race, even tho he had never passed the line in 6th, 5 riders had done 5 laps, he had done 4,

[Doppleganger]

Whether you agree with the rule or not is moot. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

It gets even worse when you hear what a total fuck up MNZ have made of the whole process.

Should never of been a process. Like I said everyone went away from the meeting happy (wrong word but you know what I mean)
It didn't turn to shit until a know it all got involved over a week later.

The HD race was run according to the rule book (cant have more than one re-start) so is irrelevant.

Drew - are the rules fixed now? how many restarts to a race before the allotted distance %
Can the cause of a red flag score points/re-start?

I'll try and look them up myself in the meantime

[Drew]

What i feel, and what the rules allow for is totally different, i don't think you should get any points for crashing out of a race and causing a red flag,

if you are used to racing Cross Countries then what i am explaining makes a bit more sense, (in cross countries the finish flag comes out at a time limit, no matter who is next over the line)
the finish line is the recording of every lap, just because you cross the line on lap 4 in first, does not mean you are first in a race, when the red flag came out on lap 6 all the riders that completed lap 5 were ahead of Choppa as they had completed the lap 5, he had not, since under the current rule we do not exclude the fallen rider, he was 6th in the race, even tho he had never passed the line in 6th, 5 riders had done 5 laps, he had done 4,So everyone who hadn't crossed the line got points for sixth?


Should never of been a process. Like I said everyone went away from the meeting happy (wrong word but you know what I mean)
It didn't turn to shit until a know it all got involved over a week later.

The HD race was run according to the rule book (cant have more than one re-start) so is irrelevant.

Drew - are the rules fixed now? how many restarts to a race before the allotted distance %
Can the cause of a red flag score points/re-start?

I'll try and look them up myself in the meantime

The restart rule is altered to read that 65% of a race must be completed. The fucking MNZ official at the hearing gave that as evidence for this appeal. How inept is this cunt if he can't read and also refers to the wrong rulebook?

[CHOPPA]

Good reply Choppa, but wasn't Tony on lap 7 when the red flag came out meaning the results go back a lap to lap 6 where he crossed the finish line in first etc and you crashed on lap 5 meaning you couldn't have been included anyway?

Tony was on lap 6, I crashed lap 5. It was reported a little incorrectly in the media but yeah im either first or dnf not 6th.

The rules state race goes to previous lap and then you use part A or B and that part of the rule further clarifies the "complete lap" wording.

The rules have been changed for 2018 which do seem to clearly state that the number pf laps is determined by the lead rider however when I questioned the commissioner he confirmed it meant the complete lap which is a little worrying...

[jellywrestler]

[QUOTE=Doppleganger;1131064651]
Can the cause of a red flag score points/re-start?

/QUOTE]

Whatever happens it is not possible, nor fair, to apply a blame to anyone for 'causing' a red flag and have it workable in every incident.
We do not have enough qualified, impartial eyes, capable of watching every move of every individual rider on every corner or straight all the time, nor do they have the resources to pull everyone in , check everyone's on board footage etc , make a judgement in time for a restart.
if you're out you're out

[scott411]

So everyone who hadn't crossed the line got points for sixth?




no, any riders that dont finish lap 5 get placed in the order they finished lap 4,

[jellywrestler]

So everyone who hadn't crossed the line got points for sixth?



The restart rule is altered to read that 65% of a race must be completed. The fucking MNZ official at the hearing gave that as evidence for this appeal. How inept is this cunt if he can't read and also refers to the wrong rulebook?

and in some places is says 2/3rds which is another example of poor wording for what is a legal document.

[Drew]

no, any riders that dont finish lap 5 get placed in the order they finished lap 4,That's as convoluted and stupid as it fucking gets. Particularly since Sloan finished lap 4 in the lead.

So what you cunts are doing a great job of illustrating, is that the results need to go back to the last completed lap.

Cheers


and in some places is says 2/3rds which is another example of poor wording for what is a legal document.
Mate, I wouldn't worry about it. The rate at which MNZ learn from their mistakes suggests that they aren't capable of tying their own friggin shoes.

[Grumph]

Mate, I wouldn't worry about it. The rate at which MNZ learn from their mistakes suggests that they aren't capable of tying their own friggin shoes.

Well I've said before on this thread that they're incapable of putting out the same rulebook 2 years running....

It needs to be proofread against one pre website and all the remit revisions entered - then password protected against alteration by unauthorised people.

[scott411]

That's as convoluted and stupid as it fucking gets. Particularly since Sloan finished lap 4 in the lead.

So what you cunts are doing a great job of illustrating, is that the results need to go back to the last completed lap.

Cheers


Mate, I wouldn't worry about it. The rate at which MNZ learn from their mistakes suggests that they aren't capable of tying their own friggin shoes.

I dont understand why you need to start calling people names, i am trying explaining the rules that you dont understand, if you think you can do a better job, be a MNZ official, theres not a long line to be one i assure you,

why you think they need to come back a lap? i think they should use the last recorded passing (the last passing of the finish line on most tracks, or if we get to the point where we have multiple loops in tracks, then the last loop they passed) as i said above, i think anyone that crashed should not be scored at all, i believe this as there is an advantage to be gained by causing a red flag, if you get a red flag you have a chance of points, if race continues you have none, why the fuck would you no lie there to get points,

the reason they go back to the last completed lap is that there is no way of knowing who was in front with out TV coverage (and remember these rules have to work for club days as well) , and in the case where riders are side by side when the red flag comes out, who decides in front, thats why you need to go back to where the last recorded passing was,

you seem to want to prove you need to go back a lap and a half, when clearly all the front group had passed a finish line, i have never seen the rule used that way, but to be fair, its not normally and issue that gets brought up,

[Drew]

I dont understand why you need to start calling people names, i am trying explaining the rules that you dont understand, if you think you can do a better job, be a MNZ official, theres not a long line to be one i assure you,

why you think they need to come back a lap? i think they should use the last recorded passing (the last passing of the finish line on most tracks, or if we get to the point where we have multiple loops in tracks, then the last loop they passed) as i said above, i think anyone that crashed should not be scored at all, i believe this as there is an advantage to be gained by causing a red flag, if you get a red flag you have a chance of points, if race continues you have none, why the fuck would you no lie there to get points,

the reason they go back to the last completed lap is that there is no way of knowing who was in front with out TV coverage (and remember these rules have to work for club days as well) , and in the case where riders are side by side when the red flag comes out, who decides in front, thats why you need to go back to where the last recorded passing was,

you seem to want to prove you need to go back a lap and a half, when clearly all the front group had passed a finish line, i have never seen the rule used that way, but to be fair, its not normally and issue that gets brought up,

I'm not calling people names. I refer to cunts as cunts all the time.

Nobody cares what you think the rules should be. Ya got that? Stop putting that in to the thread. We don't care.

Define 'the front group' for us.

Do you think that the points battles other people are having is less important? The reason that it goes back to the last completed lap is so that it's fair for all.

This rule is picked at by dicks all the time. Usually noobs to racing that think they know better than everyone. Marcus made a whole song and dance about it, and we all know how big a fuckwit that cock is.

[scott411]

I'm not calling people names. I refer to cunts as cunts all the time.

Nobody cares what you think the rules should be. Ya got that? Stop putting that in to the thread. We don't care.

Define 'the front group' for us.

Do you think that the points battles other people are having is less important? The reason that it goes back to the last completed lap is so that it's fair for all.

This rule is picked at by dicks all the time. Usually noobs to racing that think they know better than everyone. Marcus made a whole song and dance about it, and we all know how big a fuckwit that cock is.

had a MNZ race licence since 1987, and been a steward since the mid 90's, so far from new here, I know the rule book better than most, mainly cause i have read it, which to most racers don't do, which to me, spending that much money on racing, and not reading the rules is a bit stupid,

i explained the rules to you, but since you dont seem to want to take my explanation, and since i explained them to Choppa as well, i seem to be a good fucken choice of people who want to know, again, how many meetings have you officiated at?

for your question the front group in my opinion is the other 5 super bikes that were in the race,

[Drew]

I did say usually a noob. I know you've been around a while.

You don't seem to know the rules though. You continually interject with opinion and don't quote the rules. But that's par for the course.

I've never been an official at a meeting. Very much doubt I ever would. I pay my fees when I'm gonna race, and I go race.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Think it's time to let it go Drew. The right guy won the title...whether you like the rules or not.

[Drew]

Think it's time to let it go Drew. The right guy won the title...whether you like the rules or not.
Whatever Pete. I'm not really vested in it at all, so matters not to me what way it goes.

However. If you read Sloan's submission (someone should since the useless fucking officials admit they didn't) the rules are quite clear.

But fuck it, this Scott cunt is like most other MNZ tards.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Whatever Pete. I'm not really vested in it at all, so matters not to me what way it goes.



But fuck it, this Scott cunt is like most other MNZ tards.

Sure looks like you have.

Nah, Scott knows his shit mate.