Engine Size Questions

[CHOPPA]

Could I start with a 125 water cooled 2 stroke and sleeve it down to 100cc so it was legal?

Could I take a 300cc twin cylinder 5 stroke and turn it into a single 150cc cylinder so it would be legal?

[Akzle]

Could I start with a 125 water cooled 2 stroke and sleeve it down to 100cc so it was legal?

Could I take a 300cc twin cylinder 5 stroke and turn it into a single 150cc cylinder so it would be legal?

if you cut a 5 stroke twin in half you only end up with 2.5 strokes.

[Drew]

As long as it started life as a road bike, then thats legit.

Get a Cagiva (hahahahaha autocorrect turned that into vagina) Mito and go for gold.

[AllanB]

Get a air compressor from Super Cheap Auto and turn it into a Harley.

[TZ350]

Could I start with a 125 water cooled 2 stroke and sleeve it down to 100cc so it was legal?

Yes, and a few have. Or you could de stroke it, which may be easier and a more reliable way to go.

All totally legal if you start with a non competition motorcycle engine.

In case you have any other legal questions, I have attached the current MNZ Miniature RR rules.


332290


Get a Cagiva Mito and go for gold.

A Cagiva Mito Bucket would be totally awesome.

[peewee]

:killingme most Harleys have about as much power as a aircompressor. aircompressors seem to vibrate far less however

[Yow Ling]

But your real question is "Can I start with a 154cc 4 stroke and race it in buckets seeing as a 150 has an allowance for boring up to +2mm or 158cc"
This is because you want the GSRX150's to be allowed into buckets without modifications even though they are overcapacity for the MNZ rules for the class
Would it be ok if the hondas ran 1060's in superbikes because they were oversize ?
A bit of honesty in your question would have helped

[TALLIS]

I just can't work out why suzuki nz would bring in such a heap of shit for this race series when for an extra $50 they could of had the gsxr150 water cooled and fuel injected.... oh and 150cc with a disc brake rear end instead of the drum. Ooooh flash. Maybe that extra 4cc is worth it?

[Akzle]

:killingme most Harleys have about as much power as a aircompressor. aircompressors seem to vibrate far less however

and move faster...

[Buddha#81]

Your turn choppa, be aware unlike superbikes we all have an opinion and mnz don't care too much about the one remaining formula class so we get very passionate about the rules being read how you want to get what you want. I'm off to the ridge for refreshments and wait for the ensuing fun!

[Grumph]

Yes, and a few have. Or you could de stroke it, which may be easier and a more reliable way to go.

All totally legal if you start with a non competition motorcycle engine.

In case you have any other legal questions, I have attached the current MNZ Miniature RR rules.


Might be worth attatching the current oversize and fuel rules too, Rob, just for clarification, like...
I can't access them atm.

[Grumph]

As long as it started life as a road bike, then thats legit.

Get a Cagiva (hahahahaha autocorrect turned that into vagina) Mito and go for gold.

In your case, that's not autocorrect - it's predictive text...

[TZ350]

Might be worth attatching the current oversize and fuel rules too, Rob, just for clarification, like...

332291 F4 and F5 Bucket racing rules.

332292 Fuel

332293 Championship classes, first page has oversize allowances for F4 and F5

[Yow Ling]

Frost is well aware of the rules, he just wants to bend them to suit his purpose

Quote from TSS Red Barron facebook

Enquire now to get yourself into the least expensive way to go racing. Bear in mind, with some minor added crash protection these machines can also be used in Bucket Racing so you'll get a lot of racing for your dollar.
Race bike, leathers, helmet, boots, all for $5995!
Now's your big chance to go bike racing.
If you've ever wanted to go motorcycle racing at places like Manfeild, Hampton Downs, Taupo, Levels, Teretonga or Ruapuna, you now really have no excuse not to give it a go.
Starting this summer, both the pre-nationals Suzuki Tri-Series and then the 2018 New Zealand Superbike Championships that follow will include a class for "entry level" racing.
Called the GIXXER Cup – with the tagline "Growing Future Champions" – the racing involves riders hitting the race tracks on identical Suzuki GSX150F bikes, an absolutely level playing field for those starting out and on a limited budget.
If you’re between the ages of 14 and 21, then being part of New Zealand’s newest class of production racing is definitely the most exciting thing you can do this summer – and it's also a springboard towards a successful racing future.
Ready to race at just $5,995, the package includes full Alpinestars race gear and Bell helmet. These air-cooled, four-stroke, single-cylinder, fully-faired GSX150F bikes have been prepared in Suzuki's workshop by Suzuki's national superbike champion Sloan Frost.

[Drew]

Your turn choppa, be aware unlike superbikes we all have an opinion and mnz don't care too much about the one remaining formula class so we get very passionate about the rules being read how you want to get what you want. I'm off to the ridge for refreshments and wait for the ensuing fun!
I've seen more reliable and easily replicated ingenuity and engineering in Formula 3 than in buckets. What the fuck are you on about?

[Drew]

I just can't work out why suzuki nz would bring in such a heap of shit for this race series when for an extra $50 they could of had the gsxr150 water cooled and fuel injected.... oh and 150cc with a disc brake rear end instead of the drum. Ooooh flash. Maybe that extra 4cc is worth it?
That $50 Probably grows substantially when doing a bulk deal direct from the manufacturer.

[ellipsis]

...what F3...

[Drew]

...what F3...

Never got the name change, but it's formula rules no matter how pedantic you want to b3.

[Yow Ling]

Never got the name change, but it's formula rules no matter how pedantic you want to b3.

So really you have nothing to add to this conversation

[Yow Ling]

That $50 Probably grows substantially when doing a bulk deal direct from the manufacturer.

50 x 30 =1500 yup that would sink the boat

[Grumph]

That $50 Probably grows substantially when doing a bulk deal direct from the manufacturer.

Well if someone had wanted the bikes to be eligible for two classes they should have done a bulk deal for a version under 150cc.
There should be a version somewhere as they'll miss out on a hell of lot of asian race classes if there isn't.

[Drew]

So really you have nothing to add to this conversationI'm not the one suggesting someone is being dishonest.


50 x 30 =1500 yup that would sink the boat I know you're not that thick, the fuck is your fucken boggle?

[Drew]

Well if someone had wanted the bikes to be eligible for two classes they should have done a bulk deal for a version under 150cc.
There should be a version somewhere as they'll miss out on a hell of lot of asian race classes if there isn't.

I don't know the particulars, but I love the way you cunts seem to know the ins and outs of how much SNZ are buying their stock for.

[husaberg]

A Cagiva Mito Bucket would be totally awesome.

They are Cylinder reed though.

[TZ350]

Could I take a 300cc twin cylinder 5 stroke and turn it into a single 150cc cylinder so it would be legal?


But your real question is "Can I start with a 154cc 4 stroke and race it in buckets seeing as a 150 has an allowance for boring up to +2mm or 158cc"This is because you want the GSRX150's to be allowed into buckets without modifications even though they are overcapacity for the MNZ rules for the class.

The good thing about Buckets is that the engine capacity does not have to be class legal to start with, it could be de stroked, sleeved down or re bored, anything that meets the class capacity requirements.

154 OEM is not legal but being re bored would allow you to run 158cc, So freshen it up with a re bore and then you would be legal....... :yes: ... easy as.

[Yow Ling]

The good thing about Buckets is that the engine capacity does not have to be class legal to start with, it could be de stroked, sleeved down or re bored, anything that meets the class capacity requirements.

154 OEM is not legal but being re bored would allow you to run 158cc, So freshen it up with a re bore and then you would be legal....... :yes: ... easy as.

But then its not legal for Gixers, but they want both. And buckets has to pay, Frost already said on face book that the Gixer will be carefully monitored for modifications. So buckets its up to you to let them in , Venter said it would be easy to change the bucket rules

"Liam Venter I am sure that a rule amendment change could be made to accommodate these in bucket racing. Where there is a will there is a way and us bucket racers are pragmatic and flexible.
Like · Reply · August 9 at 8:40pm"
Rule changes are closed for this year

"Sloan M Frost Found the rules, technically the engine needs to be rebored but its allowed up to 158cc
Like · Reply · 1 · August 9 at 7:44pm"
No not Technically, actually rebored

"Sloan M Frost I read the rules MikeStein, it says max capacity for rebored engines. Doesn't say where they need to start. You could have a 1000cc engine rebored to 158cc it would fit within the rules.
Like · Reply · August 9 at 9:52pm"

"Sloan M Frost Where does it say rebored engines must be under 150cc before they are rebored? Pretty sure a bunch of 2 strokes are rebored to get them within the capacity but start life larger
Like · Reply · August 9 at 10:00pm"
It says it in the rules under the capacity part

"Sloan M Frost That's your interpretation GavinMenting. Also doesn't say a minimum rebore amount. Rebore the cylinder 1 millionth over the rings will seal nicely
Like · Reply · August 9 at 10:15pm"
So rebored engines are ok in Gixxer cup?

[TZ350]

332297

14.9hp ... carburetor and air cooled, a flash version of a GN145, good wheel dimensions though.

[jasonu]

Your turn choppa, be aware unlike superbikes we all have an opinion and mnz don't care too much about the one remaining formula class so we get very passionate about the rules being read how you want to get what you want. I'm off to the ridge for refreshments and wait for the ensuing fun!

I thought the cash cow Bucket class was self policing....

[Grumph]

I thought the cash cow Bucket class was self policing....

Well, lets hope each bike comes with a gasket set from Mr Frost as it seems likely anyone fronting with one as a bucket will be required to strip it for measurement...

[Drew]

So clearly if someone were to pull the barrel off and give it a hone, the bike becomes legal since bore material has been removed and it's now in the over bore section of the rules.

[Drew]

Also, the bikes aren't coming from Sloan. Suzuki New Zealand are supplying the bikes.

[Buddha#81]

The sad part is they wont even be competitive. Other than looking good in the pits, the bling will make them unsuitable for NI cart tracks and I cant see them being within 15 seconds a lap of the fastest buckets in Chch.

[Grumph]

Also, the bikes aren't coming from Sloan. Suzuki New Zealand are supplying the bikes.

Of course they are. I claim the priviledge of old age - cynicism. I see the new lightweight production class going great guns with big entries - and no Suzuki marketed here to suit the class. In order to get potential customers into the habit of buying Suzukis, lets introduce a class to suit us....
They've done it before and it's worked for them.
Wouldn't surprise me to find a remit going forward "for the good of the sport "....and a major sponsor.

[ellipsis]

The sad part is they wont even be competitive. Other than looking good in the pits, the bling will make them unsuitable for NI cart tracks and I cant see them being within 15 seconds a lap of the fastest buckets in Chch.


...there is that small thing, too...

[Kickaha]

So clearly if someone were to pull the barrel off and give it a hone, the bike becomes legal since bore material has been removed and it's now in the over bore section of the rules.


Honing isn't reboring, they're two different things

Amend the rule to 158cc maximum, no allowance for overbores problem solved and adds more bikes to the Bucket pool

[Doppleganger]

Your fucking kidding me right!!!!

A brand new series is just about to be launched and cunts are already trying to figure out how to cheat in it, You should be fucking ashamed....... great leadership for our young riders.

[Drew]

Honing isn't reboring, they're two different things

Amend the rule to 158cc maximum, no allowance for overbores problem solved and adds more bikes to the Bucket pool
I know the difference between boring and honing. But the rules don't make a distinction. I'd argue all day that removing any material from the cylinder makes the bike fit into the over bore allowance within the rules. It's be a real fickwit that protested them anyway.

The only reason the bucket racing was suggested is to add value in track time for the kids that'll be racing the things. It's not like they'd keep up with an FXR.

Your fucking kidding me right!!!!

A brand new series is just about to be launched and cunts are already trying to figure out how to cheat in it, You should be fucking ashamed....... great leadership for our young riders.The fuck are you smoking man? No one is talking about cheating in the gixxer cup. The point of contention is that the bikes aren't bucket legal off the shelf, but people will want to race them in buckets too.

[F5 Dave]

If it was up to me I'd be happy that they raced.

But as I no longer race Buckets I should shut the fuck up.


As long as they are properly nylon'd as well. For kart tracks.

[Yow Ling]

I know the difference between boring and honing. But the rules don't make a distinction. I'd argue all day that removing any material from the cylinder makes the bike fit into the over bore allowance within the rules. It's be a real fickwit that protested them anyway.

The only reason the bucket racing was suggested is to add value in track time for the kids that'll be racing the things. It's not like they'd keep up with an FXR.
The fuck are you smoking man? No one is talking about cheating in the gixxer cup. The point of contention is that the bikes aren't bucket legal off the shelf, but people will want to race them in buckets too.

FFS, if you hone it or rebore it to an oversize, the piston will be bigger, if the piston or bore is bigger it wont be Gixxer eligible but will be ok for a bucket
Are they plated bores or Iron bores.

Individual clubs may allow them to compete in buckets, MCI will certainly allow them in the Supersport 150 class, maybe not as buckets but in the up to 250 4 stroke class

How big is the Gixxer grid now? are they going to have enough for a class? will they travel to the SI for the nationals , I dont think there are any down here

[Kickaha]

How big is the Gixxer grid now? are they going to have enough for a class? will they travel to the SI for the nationals , I dont think there are any down here

They'll have to, according to Robert Cochrane they're going to replace 250 development at a National level

[FastFred]

Your fucking kidding me right!!!! A brand new series is just about to be launched and cunts are already trying to figure out how to cheat in it.

Its called Critical Thinking, Not Cheating ...... :laugh:

[Drew]

FFS, if you hone it or rebore it to an oversize, the piston will be bigger, if the piston or bore is bigger it wont be Gixxer eligible but will be ok for a bucket
Are they plated bores or Iron bores.

Individual clubs may allow them to compete in buckets, MCI will certainly allow them in the Supersport 150 class, maybe not as buckets but in the up to 250 4 stroke class

How big is the Gixxer grid now? are they going to have enough for a class? will they travel to the SI for the nationals , I dont think there are any down hereI'm working on the theory it's a steal cylinder. Running hone down it won't alter anything for the gixxer cup.


They'll have to, according to Robert Cochrane they're going to replace 250 development at a National level

They all sitting in Wanganui being ass3mbked as we argue.

[Drew]

Its called Critical Thinking, Not Cheating ...... :laugh:
There's no way cheat really. The bikes are completely stock except for the pipe, which is SNZ supplied on the bike. And no one else makes a pipe for them anyway.

[nodrog]

There's no way cheat really. The bikes are completely stock except for the pipe, which is SNZ supplied on the bike. And no one else makes a pipe for them anyway.

I thought having a one colour paint job makes them ineligible for bucket racing anyway?

[Drew]

I thought having a one colour paint job makes them ineligible for bucket racing anyway?

You're probably right.

[sidecar bob]

You're probably right.

They will also have to enforce the "no two wheels to be the same colour" & the "all racing numbers to be made of straight strips of duct tape" rules too, regardless of wether the number is 11 or 38.

[Drew]

They will also have to enforce the "no two wheels to be the same colour" & the "all racing numbers to be made of straight strips of duct tape" rules too, regardless of wether the number is 11 or 38.

There's no winning for them really. The ridiculously well prepped ones are as funny to me as the thrown together ones I'm guilty of knocking out over a weekend.

[Buddha#81]

They'll have to, according to Robert Cochrane they're going to replace 250 development at a National level

That would be the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Drop a championship class that currently runs in with an existing championship class. There is no way they could safely run in with SS300. Its that mad it will probably happen.

[FastFred]

332310

This whole thing is a cockup, someone has not done their homework and are hanging out to the Bucket people for some sympathy.

332309

[Drew]

332310

This whole thing is a cockup, someone has not done their homework and are hanging out to the Bucket people for some sympathy.

332309
How do you figure that?

Suzuki have put together a one make class, sourced the bikes and done a fantastic deal on them.

Those same bikes could also be used at bucket meetings if clubs allow, to add even more to the value for buyers.

No one would buy one solely to race as a bucket. There just wouldn't be any sense in that.

[Grumph]

How do you figure that?

Suzuki have put together a one make class, sourced the bikes and done a fantastic deal on them.

Those same bikes could also be used at bucket meetings if clubs allow, to add even more to the value for buyers.

No one would buy one solely to race as a bucket. There just wouldn't be any sense in that.

Refer my post #33 - I'm not seeing or hearing anything to change my opinion...

If they are indeed going to replace 250 development at the nats it's an indication of just how much influence Suzuki NZ has here....
A good thing ? I don't know.

[Drew]

Refer my post #33 - I'm not seeing or hearing anything to change my opinion...

If they are indeed going to replace 250 development at the nats it's an indication of just how much influence Suzuki NZ has here....
A good thing ? I don't know.
There's a big 'IF'.

I don't see it replacing the current development class. And using something the supposed promoter said to think different would make someone as big a fuckwit as he is.

[Drew]

Also, what would happen if Suzuki suddenly dropped their level of support to that of all the other distributors?

Should we pander them a bit? Prolly.

[jellywrestler]

If they are indeed going to replace 250 development at the nats

that is just fake news, there's absolutly no truth whatsoever in it at all, at each round of the nationals there has been a support class, there's room at the meeting to fit in the gixxer class. i was in wanganui on monday and had a look at the building process, bloody cool to see a whole carton of clipons and a stack of other parts all lined up ready to go, i wish the class luck.
the class has a lower age limit of 14 and 16 at the cemetery circuit, there maybe a few 14 and fifteen year old's having to sit out wanganui, it would be cool to offer some of those crazy asians a free ride at wanganui to fill the grids i reckon....

[Grumph]

that is just fake news, there's absolutly no truth whatsoever in it at all, at each round of the nationals there has been a support class, there's room at the meeting to fit in the gixxer class. i was in wanganui on monday and had a look at the building process, bloody cool to see a whole carton of clipons and a stack of other parts all lined up ready to go, i wish the class luck.
the class has a lower age limit of 14 and 16 at the cemetery circuit, there maybe a few 14 and fifteen year old's having to sit out wanganui, it would be cool to offer some of those crazy asians a free ride at wanganui to fill the grids i reckon....

I'd pay the gate fee to hear you pronounce the names.....

[jasonu]

that is just fake news, there's absolutly no truth whatsoever in it at all, at each round of the nationals there has been a support class, there's room at the meeting to fit in the gixxer class. i was in wanganui on monday and had a look at the building process, bloody cool to see a whole carton of clipons and a stack of other parts all lined up ready to go, i wish the class luck.
the class has a lower age limit of 14 and 16 at the cemetery circuit, there maybe a few 14 and fifteen year old's having to sit out wanganui, it would be cool to offer some of those crazy asians a free ride at wanganui to fill the grids i reckon....

16 year olds at Wanganui....FAAARRRRKKKKK:shit::shit::shit:

[FastFred]

Those same bikes could also be used at bucket meetings if clubs allow, to add even more to the value for buyers.

And Buckets need to add value to the buyers? and your sponsors, why?? the benefit to Buckets??? What is your point exactly.

[jasonu]

And Buckets need to add value to the buyers? and your sponsors, why?? the benefit to Buckets??? What is your point exactly.

Yep. A bunch of 14yr olds running around buckets is not what that class needs. From where I sit Buckets is flourishing and doesn't need any 'helpful' input.

[Buddha#81]

Yep. A bunch of 14yr olds running around buckets is not what that class needs. From where I sit Buckets is flourishing and doesn't need any 'helpful' input.

No its Suzuki's and MNZ's answer to the future of road racing....... unlike MCI's junior training, Supersport 150 and 250 proddy already offers :facepalm:.

[nodrog]

There's a few precious cunts in this thread by the looks.

[Yow Ling]

There's a big 'IF'.

I don't see it replacing the current development class. And using something the supposed promoter said to think different would make someone as big a fuckwit as he is.

So we can agree on something !

[jasonu]

No its Suzuki's and MNZ's answer to the future of road racing....... unlike MCI's junior training, Supersport 150 and 250 proddy already offers :facepalm:.

That is not what the OP's apparent purpose of this thread is.

[mr bucketracer]

Scrap metal prices are going up

[Drew]

And Buckets need to add value to the buyers? and your sponsors, why?? the benefit to Buckets??? What is your point exactly.

Buckets don't need to do anything at all. It's been covered that the bikes can be made legal for buckets whether you cunts like it or not.

[Drew]

So we can agree on something !

That the promoter is a waste of MNZ members money?

[sidecar bob]

Refer my post #33 - I'm not seeing or hearing anything to change my opinion...

If they are indeed going to replace 250 development at the nats it's an indication of just how much influence Suzuki NZ has here....
A good thing ? I don't know.

Possibly their influence is directly related to how much cash they may be pumping into the sport, in order for people to go racing.
Im sure any other manufacturers NZ importer could achieve the same for the same amount.

[jellywrestler]

I'd pay the gate fee to hear you pronounce the names.....

gonna be enough trouble with all the bikes being the same colour and the riding gear being the same too.....

[jellywrestler]

16 year olds at Wanganui....FAAARRRRKKKKK:shit::shit::shit:

on 14 hp bikes....

[jellywrestler]

No its Suzuki's and MNZ's answer to the future of road racing....... unlike MCI's junior training, Supersport 150 and 250 proddy already offers :facepalm:.

sadly that's not spread throughout the country

[sidecar bob]

on 14 hp bikes....

I'm rather fond of small handsome motorbikes, but that right there cured me of this particular one.

[Yow Ling]

sadly that's not spread throughout the country
It did at the 2017 NZSBK

[Kickaha]

I'm rather fond of small handsome motorbikes, but that right there cured me of this particular one.

Get a bunch of people on bikes the same it doesn't matter how little the HP figure is

[sidecar bob]

Get a bunch of people on bikes the same it doesn't matter how little the HP figure is

Na, I meant just to look at.

[Doppleganger]

on 14 hp bikes....

It would be a very brave or stupid Steward that would approve a 16yr old novice to race on a street circuit.....oh wait.....

[CHOPPA]

I forgot that I posted this question. Yes, the point of it was to understand if the new Gixxer 150 would be technically legal to race in Buckets.

They are a lower spec bike than the popular FXR150 and the class Suzuki Cup class rules don't allow them to be modified for extra power so my only motivation was to be able to give the young guys/girls that buy these bikes an opportunity to get out at the bucket track on their bikes, it's cheaper for them to practice, it is great for the sport and developing young riders.

I know the Wellington Bucket guys have been supportive. I think Auckland would. There is racing at Tokaroa now? They might be happy. Christchurch already has great development programs for young riders so it doesn't matter if those guys don't want it happening down there.

So the official answer to the question was yes, if the bikes are re-bored then they would be legal for bucket racing but not legal for the Suzuki cup.

[F5 Dave]

Fair post. The rules are what they are for whatever reason they evolved they are as they are.

As you said the local clubs can decide to include but official races would have to exclude, at least from the points.

[Bert]

Quite interesting how this thread has played out.

As a sideline:

I was dealing with a few questions at Rd3 of VMCC yesterday about this very topic.
Would we allow them in our Junior class. So we looked at our sup rules and the new MNZ MoMs which we are permitted under.

Conclusion was. Chapter 16 now lacks any detail now on engine sizes for four stroke 150cc. So unless you are running championship classes appendixA (being defined as the Grand Prix) then there is no definition at all to fall back on: for any club / series etc. thus given we are permitted to run F4/miniature road racing (chapter16) per MoMs within the Junior class - then they were eligible.
Race prepared vs. race derived is a point of conjecture.

MoMs is a total cluster f##k now.

If you are running a MNZ permitted event and referencing MoMs then you should consider setting in your sup regs the cc size (or at least note that you are applying appendix A): else someone is well within their rights to enter a 250 or even a GB500 (or even a superbike) - if this is not defined. :facepalm:

Only saving grace is the application of the 120% qualifying rule if there is safety concerns.

I'd suggest people actually read current MoMs as written and stop interpreting them or applying past understanding.
For someone that as been involved for >20years I find what has happened here somewhat disappointing.

[Grumph]

Rulebook erosion seems to have got markedly worse since it was put on line.

There have been too many changes done without any authorising remits.

[Drew]

We should tale the money the club is paying Cochoran (or however that's spelt), and pay it to a group to completely go through and write the rules properly. They are a fucken shambles.

[ellipsis]

We should tale the money the club is paying Cochoran (or however that's spelt), and pay it to a group to completely go through and write the rules properly. They are a fucken shambles.


...still...

[jellywrestler]

We should tale the money the club is paying Cochoran (or however that's spelt), and pay it to a group to completely go through and write the rules properly. They are a fucken shambles.

it's very very simple Drew, you as an MNZ member get to write the rules as you're on the shop floor, and you as an mnz member have the rules to adhere to, it doesn't need an outsider, there's plenty of collective knowledge inside to do it.

one big problem is people not knowing the rules, i can clearly outline simple incidents where the top three superbike riders last season didn't know basic rules, i'm stunned to be honest, all the time and effort to prep themselves bikes, teams, sponsorship and they don't pick up a rule book at some stage and check them.

[Grumph]

it's very very simple Drew, you as an MNZ member get to write the rules as you're on the shop floor, and you as an mnz member have the rules to adhere to, it doesn't need an outsider, there's plenty of collective knowledge inside to do it.

one big problem is people not knowing the rules, i can clearly outline simple incidents where the top three superbike riders last season didn't know basic rules, i'm stunned to be honest, all the time and effort to prep themselves bikes, teams, sponsorship and they don't pick up a rule book at some stage and check them.

While everything you say is true, I can take paper copies of the book and compare to what's on line - and find wording and phrasing changes as well as deletions - none of which have remits on record to authorise them.
It's hardly surprising that there are arguments about interpretation when in some cases you're not looking at the same version of the same rule...

[Buddha#81]

well its semi official, from the horses mouth the Gisxer Cup will replace one of the two support classes at the nationals. It will be up to the local clubs what the second support class will be. All the Championship Classes are the same apart from Super Sport 1000 which are superbike.

I hope Suzuki can get enough out there to make it a spectacle, or will all the Suzuki dealers be "asked" to buy one and then up to them to find a pilot?

[Drew]

well its semi official, from the horses mouth the Gisxer Cup will replace one of the two support classes at the nationals. It will be up to the local clubs what the second support class will be. All the Championship Classes are the same apart from Super Sport 1000 which are superbike.

I hope Suzuki can get enough out there to make it a spectacle, or will all the Suzuki dealers be "asked" to buy one and then up to them to find a pilot?
Which horse though?

[jellywrestler]

well its semi official, from the horses mouth the Gisxer Cup will replace one of the two support classes at the nationals. It will be up to the local clubs what the second support class will be. All the Championship Classes are the same apart from Super Sport 1000 which are superbike.

I hope Suzuki can get enough out there to make it a spectacle, or will all the Suzuki dealers be "asked" to buy one and then up to them to find a pilot?

your horse seems to be only partially informed, each suzuki road bike dealer will be required to front one.

[Buddha#81]

Which horse though?

Greg P.....you would hope he knew

[Drew]

Greg P.....you would hope he knew

Indeed you would.

[jellywrestler]

Greg P.....you would hope he knew

there's nothing new here that wasn't in the suzuki new zealand presentation at the conference, except that the clubs may choose which support class to drop

[Yow Ling]

Will they be doing all the rounds?

[jellywrestler]

Will they be doing all the rounds?

the Gixxer cup is a national championship and should be doing the same rounds as the rest of the classes plus the suzuki series although they will need numbers for wanganui given that the min age is 16 at wanganui (14 for the rest) and they need three road race meetings up their sleeve this year to compete too.

[FastFred]

332564 14hp air cooled

Hi Drew are these 14hp air cooled GSX 150F's the bikes they are talking about? http://www.primrose.co.za/motorcycles/gsx150f-gixxer :scooter:

332566 19hp water cooled and fuel injected

Those 19hp water cooled and injected GSX 150R's would be great for Buckets. https://www.suzuki-racing.com/sac/machine.aspx?OBJ_ID=57607 I think the air cooled ones would be a disappointment.

[TALLIS]

332564 14hp air cooled

Hi Drew are these 14hp air cooled GSX 150F's the bikes they are talking about? http://www.primrose.co.za/motorcycles/gsx150f-gixxer :scooter:

332566 19hp water cooled and fuel injected

Those 19hp water cooled and injected GSX 150R's would be great for Buckets. https://www.suzuki-racing.com/sac/machine.aspx?OBJ_ID=57607 I think the air cooled ones would be a disappointment.

They went for the shitter, quite disappointing really. Would have been better off bringing in the underbone scooters. Now that would off been fun!

[sidecar bob]

They went for the shitter, quite disappointing really. Would have been better off bringing in the underbone scooters. Now that would off been fun!

A hugely competent rider I am associated with suggested running a Burgman 650 in pro twins at cemetery circiut this year. apparently we would be far from last. Anyone got a unreg slightly crashed one I can buy cheap?. :laugh:

[Kickaha]

A hugely competent rider I am associated with suggested running a Burgman 650 in pro twins at cemetery circiut this year. apparently we would be far from last. Anyone got a unreg slightly crashed one I can buy cheap?. :laugh:

That would be awesome

[TALLIS]

A hugely competent rider I am associated with suggested running a Burgman 650 in pro twins at cemetery circiut this year. apparently we would be far from last. Anyone got a unreg slightly crashed one I can buy cheap?. :laugh:
Wish I did, would love to see that..... I think???

[Grumph]

A hugely competent rider I am associated with suggested running a Burgman 650 in pro twins at cemetery circiut this year. apparently we would be far from last. Anyone got a unreg slightly crashed one I can buy cheap?. :laugh:

One of my postie customers down here ran a 650 Burger as a road bike for a while. I looked at it and had the same idea....
Sadly the ridicule he received on a daily basis forced him to sell it before I could get my hands on it.

[Drew]

A hugely competent rider I am associated with suggested running a Burgman 650 in pro twins at cemetery circiut this year. apparently we would be far from last. Anyone got a unreg slightly crashed one I can buy cheap?. :laugh:
He suggested fuck all. That was my idea.

[Drew]

They went for the shitter, quite disappointing really. Would have been better off bringing in the underbone scooters. Now that would off been fun!

You fucken pay for them and sell them at a huge loss ya fucken knob jockey.

[sidecar bob]

He suggested fuck all. That was my idea.

It was you I was talking about. :msn-wink:

[TALLIS]

You fucken pay for them and sell them at a huge loss ya fucken knob jockey.

Shit, sorry mate didn't mean to hit a nerve. Your really looking forward to the series aren't ya big fella

[Drew]

It was you I was talking about. :msn-wink:

Hahaha Hahaha.

I was confused by the 'confident rider' bit.

[Drew]

Shit, sorry mate didn't mean to hit a nerve. Your really looking forward to the series aren't ya big fella

Nah, im sick of people slagging it off.

It's not my cup of tea in the slightest. I doubt I'll ever even watch a single lap of it.

[mr bucketracer]

Nah, im sick of people slagging it off.

It's not my cup of tea in the slightest. I doubt I'll ever even watch a single lap of it.your more into 1 lap shiters like what you build lol

[Drew]

your more into 1 lap shiters like what you build lol

I'm not following. I've slapped a couple buckets together poorly, but I've never been into them.

[Bert]

Nah, im sick of people slagging it off.

It's not my cup of tea in the slightest. I doubt I'll ever even watch a single lap of it.

Gees, I find myself nodding in agreement with you again.

Despite the choice of machinery (this is the bucket tread - so expect a bucket racers view on things); it is good to see that one of the major (ok the largest player) in the NZ motorcycling & racing environment looking forward and targeting the next generation. I do wish them the best of luck and maybe we will see better machines in the future... hopefully machines that may actually be suitable for future bucket racers (all be it requiring engine work to be competitive)...

[jellywrestler]

He suggested fuck all. That was my idea.

don't think they've ever run a pro twins class at wanganui though??? they do have something called chairs classic and F1 which i find amusing and often wonder why no-one has jumped up and down about that description.

[jellywrestler]

Nah, im sick of people slagging it off.

It's not my cup of tea in the slightest. I doubt I'll ever even watch a single lap of it. one part of me is itching to see this after watching the 300cc class at eastern creek at the weekend and no matter how slow it might be it's going to be well matched i reckon, the other part is if i do commentate any of the races is the nightmare in identifying them.
anyone remember the harvey donaldson 883 class and how good the racing was in that with ant young robert holden bruce anstey pete mcdonald and others???

[jellywrestler]

Gees, I find myself nodding in agreement with you again.

Despite the choice of machinery (this is the bucket tread - so expect a bucket racers view on things); it is good to see that one of the major (ok the largest player) in the NZ motorcycling & racing environment looking forward and targeting the next generation. I do wish them the best of luck and maybe we will see better machines in the future... hopefully machines that may actually be suitable for future bucket racers (all be it requiring engine work to be competitive)...

i'm sure suzuki new zealand did their homework on these, to me i wonder why they didn't pick a model the same as some of the boat people race overseas, imagine a container load of them at the tracks mixing it with our riders, there'll be a reason.
they sent a bike to switzerland to get the brakes system certified for nz roads and building thirty bikes with spares is a fair bite of commitment too. at least if it doesn't work there'll be a few more bucket racers on the market in a while

[Drew]

one part of me is itching to see this after watching the 300cc class at eastern creek at the weekend and no matter how slow it might be it's going to be well matched i reckon, the other part is if i do commentate any of the races is the nightmare in identifying them.
anyone remember the harvey donaldson 883 class and how good the racing was in that with ant young robert holden bruce anstey pete mcdonald and others???
Fuck Yeah, skirtster class was awesome to watch.

Terrifying, but awesome.

[jellywrestler]

Fuck Yeah, skirtster class was awesome to watch.

Terrifying, but awesome. yeah , the guy from nelson down the front straight of manfeild thinking he was not just a little bit better than those names, but a lot better, turns out he wasn't at all....


andrew rangi...

[Drew]

don't think they've ever run a pro twins class at wanganui though??? they do have something called chairs classic and F1 which i find amusing and often wonder why no-one has jumped up and down about that description.
It fits F3 rules in all.

[jellywrestler]

It fits F3 rules in all.

jeez, remember the stink when they had feet forward sidecars, or chairs as they're known in wanganui and you could nearly fit an mnz legal number plate on the front mudguard/?

[nodrog]

A hugely competent rider I am associated with suggested running a Burgman 650 in pro twins at cemetery circiut this year. apparently we would be far from last. Anyone got a unreg slightly crashed one I can buy cheap?. :laugh:

I'm all about this. Especially after my idea of running an aquila in the hyosung cup was shattered.

[sidecar bob]

I'm all about this. Especially after my idea of running an aquila in the hyosung cup was shattered.

Lets build one for the 6 hour.

[nodrog]

Lets build one for the 6 hour.

Unbolt the pack rack?

[sidecar bob]

Unbolt the pack rack?

If we raced two up do you think they would double lap score us?

[nodrog]

If we raced two up do you think they would double lap score us?

Only if we had 2 transponders.

[Grumph]

Lets build one for the 6 hour.

There's enough storage capacity to run an onboard toilet....

[sidecar bob]

Only if we had 2 transponders.

Nobody would be crazy enough to put two transponders on one bike would they?;)

[nodrog]

Nobody would be crazy enough to put two transponders on one bike would they?;)

I think that was the day I realised MNZ don't have a sense of humour.

[sidecar bob]

I think that was the day I realised MNZ don't have a sense of humour.

The best part was listening to the commentator. two bikes within .002 of a second of each other for several laps.
Now that's close racing folks.

[Drew]

Converted two of these bikes today. The ones I do are better than the ones Sloan does. Mine are lighter. Dunno how he remembers where all the bolts came out of.

[Kickaha]

I think that was the day I realised MNZ don't have a sense of humour.

Why?, We did at at Ruapuna and no one cared

[nodrog]

Why?, We did at at Ruapuna and no one cared

Thats because you doubled the field on the timing.

[Grumph]

Converted two of these bikes today. The ones I do are better than the ones Sloan does. Mine are lighter. Dunno how he remembers where all the bolts came out of.

So already, it's not a level playing field.....

[jellywrestler]

The best part was listening to the commentator. two bikes within .002 of a second of each other for several laps.
Now that's close racing folks.

not as close as this at teretonga this year

[Drew]

So already, it's not a level playing field.....

Shit no. I'm crap at putting stickers on though, so the extra d4ah from the bits that won't stick down will counter the weight reduction

[mr bucketracer]

So already, it's not a level playing field.....well 2 wont make a lap lol:facepalm:

[mr bucketracer]

333224my bike has turned up in nz for my boy to race

[F5 Dave]

Wow that actually looks pretty cool.


Can you hollow it out and fit the fan cooled 125?

[Grumph]

Wow that actually looks pretty cool.


Can you hollow it out and fit the fan cooled 125?

After this season, I'd pick most of them will finish up with FXR's fitted....

[mr bucketracer]

thats the watercooled injected one , its what should of been bought in

[TZ350]

thats the watercooled injected one , its what should of been bought in

Those water cooled and injected units look to be very good bikes.

Pity they weren't selected for that one make racing class, looks like a real missed sales opportunity for Suzuki.

[Drew]

It's a question of cost.

You cunts are more than welcome to pony up and buy 30 bikes of your choice in an effort to do better.

[Yow Ling]

It's a question of cost.

You cunts are more than welcome to pony up and buy 30 bikes of your choice in an effort to do better.

Its not like they are giving them away, they are selling them.

Anyway how many are left? I saw the entry list for Wanganui no Aucklanders, is that because of the dirver license thing or are Aucklanders not keen on them. The young guy Parker from MCI seems to be going well

[Yow Ling]

It's a question of cost.

You cunts are more than welcome to pony up and buy 30 bikes of your choice in an effort to do better.

We did with FXRs I have bought and sold 17 so far, and I didnt manage to get my own class

[Yow Ling]

After this season, I'd pick most of them will finish up with FXR's fitted....

Some will just dissapear never to be seen again. FXR engines arent just lying around so much anymore and you would need to put new rims on to fit 125 slicks

[Drew]

Its not like they are giving them away, they are selling them.

Anyway how many are left? I saw the entry list for Wanganui no Aucklanders, is that because of the dirver license thing or are Aucklanders not keen on them. The young guy Parker from MCI seems to be going well

Of course, but the price would have gone up substantially for those buying them. And since the bikes are all the same this was the way yo go.

No idea how many are sold.. last number I heard was 19, but that was a month or so ago.

[Drew]

We did with FXRs I have bought and sold 17 so far, and I didnt manage to get my own class

You didn't buy 17 at once. Set them up exactly the Same, organise a gear package, buy complete spared kits, and sell the lot at a loss though.

[mr bucketracer]

Some will just dissapear never to be seen again. FXR engines arent just lying around so much anymore and you would need to put new rims on to fit 125 slicksone thing they have going for them is the rims are wide

[mr bucketracer]

Of course, but the price would have gone up substantially for those buying them. And since the bikes are all the same this was the way yo go.

No idea how many are sold.. last number I heard was 19, but that was a month or so ago.25 , I would of bought the new one and given it to a rider if it was the gsxr model knowing after its caned I would have a cool bucket racer or road bike

[FastFred]

You cunts are more than welcome to pony up and buy 30 bikes of your choice in an effort to do better.

Hmmm I don't think us cunts need to do better ... anal myopic big bike thinking got 30 bikes with limited utility.

Anal and myopic, because F4 seems to be an after thought.

A few $$$ more each and a simple bit of forethought could have done better, resulting in a bike with much wider appeal. Because they could have been competitive in F4 too, giving the owner a great competitive base to establish themselves from but as is, they will just be dogs and a great disappointment to anyone who bothers.

[Yow Ling]

You didn't buy 17 at once. Set them up exactly the Same, organise a gear package, buy complete spared kits, and sell the lot at a loss though.

thank you for keeping us up to date , are you the communications manager for the Gsx 150 cup, we never seem to hear from anyone else

[jellywrestler]

thank you for keeping us up to date , are you the communications manager for the Gsx 150 cup, we never seem to hear from anyone else

you'll find bike rider magazine have been and will cover it well, they have put up a bike and found a rider to do the season on too.

[Drew]

one thing they have going for them is the rims are wideAnd 41mm forks.


Hmmm I don't think us cunts need to do better ... anal myopic big bike thinking got 30 bikes with limited utility.

Anal and myopic, because F4 seems to be an after thought.

A few $$$ more each and a simple bit of forethought could have done better, resulting in a bike with much wider appeal. Because they could have been competitive in F4 too, giving the owner a great competitive base to establish themselves from but as is, they will just be dogs and a great disappointment to anyone who bothers.

It wasn't a few dollars more per unit. It might be on retail price overseas, but the cost difference to SNZ was going to be a big one.

[Drew]

Oh yeah.

Fucken oath F4 was an afterthought. It wasn't and shouldn't have been a consideration.

[Grumph]

Oh yeah.

Fucken oath F4 was an afterthought. It wasn't and shouldn't have been a consideration.

Prob'ly should have been when you look at the resale price of CBR150's which were brought in for the junior riders series a few years back.

[Drew]

Prob'ly should have been when you look at the resale price of CBR150's which were brought in for the junior riders series a few years back.

Really? Never heard of the CBR150 cup. Never saw a bike and complete gear set offer. Didn't know MNZ were approached to run the class all over the country.

I musta had other things on that year.

Yeah, they sold well to be used as buckets. But they cost more than these , and the sellers weren't left with $4000 Of riding gear.

Let's compare the whole picture, rather than chime in with 'woulda shoulda coulda '.

[jellywrestler]

Yeah, they sold well to be used as buckets. But they cost more than these , and the sellers weren't left with $4000 Of riding gear.

$4 grand, can you provide a breakdown of this please?

[Drew]

$4 grand, can you provide a breakdown of this please?

The suit retails for $3k. The helmet gets them nearly the rest of the way there, then the boots and gloves.

[Buddha#81]

Oh yeah.

Fucken oath F4 was an afterthought. It wasn't and shouldn't have been a consideration.

It was a consideration....... the early marketing F4 was mentioned to give more track time, this part of the marketing was removed when it was pointed out they don't comply. Even changing the engine size for F4 has been discussed to allow them in.

[jellywrestler]

The suit retails for $3k. https://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/asrsgpplus.aspx nevertheless the whole package nearly race ready is a dam good deal and there'll be some good racing out there.

[gsxr]

I have been out of competitive racing of any form for a number of years.
One of the reasons was I couldnt keep up with the mentality of the one with the biggest cheque book wins
or is able to put the most capable rider/driver on/in their bike/car.
Yes it is as it should be at an international or even super bike level in NZ as long as everyone plays by the rules.
But how does anyone get to that level.We all have to start somewhere.
It appears a new class is attempting to be introduced on a level playing field.
Does it matter that the class lacks horsepower in an attempt to bring up an coming riders into the sport.
Take for example the 1/4 midget class in speedway where kids as young as 8 can race competitively.They are the future of motorsport. The suzuki series straight off the floor level playing field.There will be always ones that cheat but thats racing as we know it.
I dont know Drew and his public relations skills need to be sharpened so he doesnt come across as a cunt but the idea and implication of a level playing field class with a package deal seems all good with me.
Who really cares if the bikes are eligible for bucket racing or not or any other class for that matter.
Bucket racing is the same as go karts. The starting point of future champions or the end of the road for wannabe racers like me

[FastFred]

Who really cares if the bikes are eligible for bucket racing or not.

Bucket racers do, when the commercial organizers of a race series try to push their non compliant bikes onto F4 in a belated attempt to add value to their own venture.

If you want to race Buckets, field a Bucket compliant bike, they could have easily done it but now they just come across as complete cocks that display a sense entitlement.

[ellipsis]

Who really cares if the bikes are eligible for bucket racing or not or any other class for that matter.
Bucket racing is the same as go karts. The starting point of future champions or the end of the road for wannabe racers like me

...I met a young fellow, starting off his racing career, hobby, joy, (whichever one it ends up being), up at Manfield last weekend. He was getting some track time in on the new Suzuki. He was keen and full of the excitement regards the upcoming series and it was all new to him. If it only brings a handful of youngsters into our game it has to be good. I don't know of any class that doesn't get fucked around with regards rules, eligibility at some point.

Good on Suzuki, even Drew's rabid, rants regards the class.( his rabid dislike of Buckets seems wank, but that's his perspective) Good on the F4 bunch for defending their class against those who want to fuck with it.

The little Suzuki seemed slow compared to a lot of the buckets down here.

Buckets have been the starting place for half a dozen NZ class champions that I can count and there may be more. They will endure, I'm not so sure of any smaller class that being introduced will have the same affect or longevity.

Too many knickers being twisted, but all advertising is good advertising they say. I'll be keeping my eyes cocked for the new class to see how it actually goes.

[mr bucketracer]

for me its more than the race bikes it self,the idea is great , even though there most the way there to a bucket . its all the road bikes there now selling could of been the better bike that would of been a future bucket bike that could of been made to go well! . seen it was the fxr that saved buckets in the first place which will not be around for ever , nice to of had a good carry on.

[Kickaha]

I dont know Drew and his public relations skills need to be sharpened so he doesnt come across as a cunt
But he is a cunt, has been for years



Good on Suzuki, even Drew's rabid, rants regards the class.( his rabid dislike of Buckets seems wank, but that's his perspective)
It's because he's shit at riding them

[FastFred]

Too many knickers being twisted.

If you want to play with us you need to respect us.

Push back against arrogance is not getting you'er nickers in a twist. Its about maintaining your own space.

[Drew]

I don't think anyone was being arrogant.

Yes, there's a better Suzuki for use as a bucket. I don't think New Zealand is getting those at all though. Isn't there still the Honda to make a bucket rocket from?

I reckon this thread was more to ask that if material is removed from the cylinder, is it now bucket legal. The answer to that is yes. But it's not gonna be competitive.

The bikes do have some good points for buckets. Lightweight wheels on the correct size for GP slicks, and 41mm forks.

[sidecar bob]

If you want to race Buckets, field a Bucket compliant bike, they could have easily done it but now they just come across as complete cocks that display a sense entitlement.

Do you really think that? They have put up a pile of support for entry level riders & some fuckwit that's probably done nothing ever to support anything other than their own best interests thinks that.
What's your claim to fame for supporting racing in NZ?
As I recall, bucket rules were that if someone offered you $1500 for your bike, you had to sell it to them. What happened to that? What with $9000 buckets on trademe.

[sidecar bob]

If you want to play with us you need to respect us.

Push back against arrogance is not getting you'er nickers in a twist. Its about maintaining your own space.
Why? You guys don't respect anyone else.
It's about the titanium bucket bubble. Go & play with yourselves.

[FastFred]

.

I see what you mean ellipsis, someone really has got their Nickers in a Twist ....... :laugh:

[sidecar bob]

.

I see what you mean ellipsis, someone really has got their Nickers in a Twist ....... :laugh:

I'd hardly think so. You guys have your heads so far up your own arses all you can see is your own shit.
God forbid anyone should try to raise the profile of bucket racing.
Would you feel better if they painted them five shades of rattle can leftovers?
Anyway, I asked you a question, what's the answer to that?

[Kickaha]

As I recall, bucket rules were that if someone offered you $1500 for your bike, you had to sell it to them. What happened to that? What with $9000 buckets on trademe.
You must be at least 20 years behind the times with that one

[F5 Dave]

. . .
As I recall, bucket rules were that if someone offered you $1500 for your bike, you had to sell it to them. What happened to that? What with $9000 buckets on trademe.
That bit would be totally in your imagination.

And $9000 Bucket only belongs in the optimistic sellers thread.

[Kickaha]

Do you really think that? They have put up a pile of support for entry level riders
Yeah and good on them for doing that, pity it was at the expense of a class that had the biggest numbers last year and which has been dropped after being told it wouldn't be to let the Gixxer 150 guys race

[Drew]

That bit would be totally in your imagination.

And $9000 Bucket only belongs in the optimistic sellers thread.Was over ten grand when I first saw Sephan's for sale.


Yeah and good on them for doing that, pity it was at the expense of a class that had the biggest numbers last year and which has been dropped after being told it wouldn't be to let the Gixxer 150 guys race
Which class did they drop?

[Kickaha]

Which class did they drop?

Development, but I guess all those guys can sell all their shit and just go buy a Gixxer 150

[jellywrestler]

Development, but I guess all those guys can sell all their shit and just go buy a Gixxer 150

hang on, it was only there for one season and propped up hugely by the provision of the underground brown truck to transport a number of bikes around, and you driving, was it sustainable without the truck? why aren't they running at levels then, it's a largely south island class after all?
we don't have 500 manx nortons these days at the nationals either...

[mr bucketracer]

hang on, it was only there for one season and propped up hugely by the provision of the underground brown truck to transport a number of bikes around, and you driving, was it sustainable without the truck? why aren't they running at levels then, it's a largely south island class after all?
we don't have 500 manx nortons these days at the nationals either...this new class you get fined if you dont turn up so the dealer ship told me

[Grumph]

this new class you get fined if you dont turn up so the dealer ship told me

If that's true, it opens a can of worms...Injury, family emergency, travel breakdown, arrest for excessive partying....They've all happened.

[nodrog]

Do you really think that? They have put up a pile of support for entry level riders & some fuckwit that's probably done nothing ever to support anything other than their own best interests thinks that.
What's your claim to fame for supporting racing in NZ?
As I recall, bucket rules were that if someone offered you $1500 for your bike, you had to sell it to them. What happened to that? What with $9000 buckets on trademe.

It's moto4 Bob.

[jasonu]

Bucket racers do, when the commercial organizers of a race series try to push their non compliant bikes onto F4 in a belated attempt to add value to their own venture.

If you want to race Buckets, field a Bucket compliant bike, they could have easily done it but now they just come across as complete cocks that display a sense entitlement.


Look at the mentality towards Buckets shown below.



It was a consideration....... the early marketing F4 was mentioned to give more track time, this part of the marketing was removed when it was pointed out they don't comply. Even changing the engine size for F4 has been discussed to allow them in.

[jellywrestler]

this new class you get fined if you dont turn up so the dealer ship told me

That's only for the over sixteen year Olds. Riders younger than that have to go to bed early without any pudding.

[Kickaha]

this new class you get fined if you dont turn up so the dealer ship told me

How could they enforce that?

[Kickaha]

hang on, it was only there for one season and propped up hugely by the provision of the underground brown truck to transport a number of bikes around, and you driving, was it sustainable without the truck? why aren't they running at levels then, it's a largely south island class after all?
we don't have 500 manx nortons these days at the nationals either...

My mistake Spyda, it was 250 Proddy that was asked about which is still running

Sustainable without the truck? most likely, not sure if that would have affected the numbers though, truck is available for this year as well

[jasonu]

How could they enforce that?

Can't race next time until you pay up.

[jellywrestler]

How could they enforce that?
it's happened in sidecar racing for the last few decades, sometimes the flavour of piss is questionable but free piss is free piss.

[husaberg]

Do you really think that? They have put up a pile of support for entry level riders & some fuckwit that's probably done nothing ever to support anything other than their own best interests thinks that.
What's your claim to fame for supporting racing in NZ?
As I recall, bucket rules were that if someone offered you $1500 for your bike, you had to sell it to them. What happened to that? What with $9000 buckets on trademe.


That bit would be totally in your imagination.

And $9000 Bucket only belongs in the optimistic sellers thread.


Not totally shit , just confused, the Aussies had a claiming rule, it was about 20 years ago and it was about $1000.

[sidecar bob]

Not totally shit , just confused, the Aussies had a claiming rule, it was about 20 years ago and it was about $1000.

I suspect some of these bucket racers haven't been around for as long as they think they have.
That was the rule in the early '80's regarding buckets, before Valentino's retarded little brothers started turning up.
It used to be fun until all the dickheads thought anyone cared about the results & couldn't get over there own awesomeness at winning an amateur race on an amateur built bike.
And yes, there was a $9000 bucket on trademe. Only after it was discounted down from $11,000 though.

[Grumph]

How could they enforce that?


Can't race next time until you pay up.

Interesting...A civil dispute doesn't give grounds for disqualifying an entry. Only a dispute with MNZ does that.

So a rider would still have a valid entry within the MNZ system - and might have a case against whoever's administering that class if the bike was withheld from them.

And I've run riders in the past that I'd have liked to send to bed early without pudding....

[husaberg]

I suspect some of these bucket racers haven't been around for as long as they think they have.
That was the rule in the early '80's regarding buckets, before Valentino's retarded little brothers started turning up.
It used to be fun until all the dickheads thought anyone cared about the results & couldn't get over there own awesomeness at winning an amateur race on an amateur built bike.
And yes, there was a $9000 bucket on trademe. Only after it was discounted down from $11,000 though.

Well honestly I can't remember it, i started back in 89.
Pretty sure that was the "yellow" ACU book back then.

Money spend in any class of motorsports doesn't guarantee results.
Most of the people that build special buckets do it for personal enjoyment not prizes or results.

I think your point of view about the flash harrys in buckets might carry more weight if you didnt have an MV and a Rickman Metisse though:innocent:

[sidecar bob]

I think your point of view about the flash harrys in buckets might carry more weight if you didnt have an MV and a Rickman Metisse though:innocent:

Which are little more than ornaments.
When I do "race" it's on a stock standard 100,000 km BMW R90 that I've never even taken the heads off yet.
Or on a pink sidecar with a chick riding. :facepalm:

[husaberg]

Which are little more than ornaments.
When I do "race" it's on a stock standard 100,000 km BMW R90 that I've never even taken the heads off yet. :facepalm:
You do know they lost the war aye. (applies to the BMW and pinky)
A clever tuner with a modest budget appropriately spent with a decent rider, will nearly alway reign supreme in buckets, just as in most any other race class.

[mr bucketracer]

I suspect some of these bucket racers haven't been around for as long as they think they have.
That was the rule in the early '80's regarding buckets, before Valentino's retarded little brothers started turning up.
It used to be fun until all the dickheads thought anyone cared about the results & couldn't get over there own awesomeness at winning an amateur race on an amateur built bike.
And yes, there was a $9000 bucket on trademe. Only after it was discounted down from $11,000 though.

Crazy Steve might know something about this said $9,000 bucket and all the other $12,000 buckets thats have recently just sold.

I hear he is busy currently selling most bucket racers here in New Zealand.

Wanna know the truth ? Suggest Metal Trousers or Spank Me "UN BAN CARZY STEVE"

[speedpro]

I suspect some of these bucket racers haven't been around for as long as they think they have.
That was the rule in the early '80's regarding buckets, . . . .

I got things going here in Auckland in 1983 at Whenuapai. I'm not doing many laps nowadays but I'm still building stuff just because I like doing it. Lots of people built stuff just because we liked doing it. It used to be a regular thing having a late friday night/early morning at Norris Farrow's in Kumeu building stuff with at least 6 or so.

I don't remember the aforementioned rule except when other people were grizzling about me ruining the sport with my expensive bucket, which I might add me and a few mates would usually have built over months for fark all $$$, just lots of time.

[mr bucketracer]

Only Australia had the buy out rule

[Drew]

Only Australia had the buy out rule

If I won lotto, I'd buy them all and have a bonfire.

[sidecar bob]

If I won lotto, I'd buy them all and have a bonfire.
id buy the sidecars & chuck them on too.
Make the fuckers swing on a hot rod Hayabusa powered short bike & see how cool they really are.

[jellywrestler]

id buy the sidecars & chuck them on too.
Make the fuckers swing on a hot rod Hayabusa powered short bike & see how cool they really are.

i've swung on long bikes short bikes classics and buckets, buckets were the hardest, or at lest the bucket i swung on

[sidecar bob]

i've swung on long bikes short bikes classics and buckets, buckets were the hardest, or at lest the bucket i swung on

Fuck, really? A bucket with 247hp?

[F5 Dave]

You big boys are so cool. Oh how manly I think you are.
Fuck off to your own sandpit. Everyone thinks yer being tits. And you are.

[Kickaha]

You big boys are so cool. Oh how manly I think you are.
Fuck off to your own sandpit. Everyone thinks yer being tits. And you are.

Tits? I would have said cunts myself


i've swung on long bikes short bikes classics and buckets, buckets were the hardest
Yeah just ask Teeny how she lasted, although to be fair it was Noddydog riding it

[jellywrestler]

Fuck, really? A bucket with 247hp?

i doubt it, but i still stand by what i said, of the sidecars i've swung on that was the hardest.

[Yow Ling]

If I won lotto, I'd buy them all and have a bonfire.

Haha , you would have to be a winner first

[sidecar bob]

You big boys are so cool. Oh how manly I think you are.
Fuck off to your own sandpit. Everyone thinks yer being tits. And you are.

We don't get all affronted when someone wants to come & play with us without honing their bore first.
Have you considered how you guys come across to adults?
We're taking the piss, because you guys make it easy to do so.

[F5 Dave]

Oh sorry. I didn't realise you were taking the Piss. I thought you were trying to be a self righteous prick with an inflated sense of self importance. My mistake.

[Drew]

Oh sorry. I didn't realise you were taking the Piss. I thought you were trying to be a self righteous prick with an inflated sense of self importance. My mistake.

I thought it was clear that he isn't a bucket racer.

[sidecar bob]

Oh sorry. I didn't realise you were taking the Piss. I thought you were trying to be a self righteous prick with an inflated sense of self importance. My mistake.

Well that's fairly ironic right there, given the discussion in this thread by a small minded Bunch of amateur race bike builders, who seem to resist any attempts to drag their class out of the dark ages.
Maybe there are people out ther that would like to race at that level that lack the skills & equipment to make bikes look as embarrassing as you guys manage to. Have a think about that.

[FastFred]

Well that's fairly ironic right there, given the discussion in this thread by a small minded Bunch of amateur race bike builders, who seem to resist any attempts to drag their class out of the dark ages.

I am not sure a dressed up GN125 would be dragging F4 out of the dark ages.

Bob for all your trash "Troll" talk, the fact remains, as good as the intention is, and we applaud it, from where we stand the choice of bike for the GXRS series looks to be a missed opportunity.

[F5 Dave]

No Bob. The irony is that you think being patronising makes you the the adult in this conversation.

And the riders of the class should decide how it progresses, not some fat old has-been .

Myself included of course.

[Kickaha]

I am not sure a dressed up GN125 would be dragging F4 out of the dark ages.. Fuck you, leave my GN out of this

[Kickaha]

Well that's fairly ironic right there, given the discussion in this thread by a small minded Bunch of amateur race bike builders, who seem to resist any attempts to drag their class out of the dark ages.
Maybe there are people out ther that would like to race at that level that lack the skills & equipment to make bikes look as embarrassing as you guys manage to. Have a think about that.

You really don't seem to know that much about the class or maybe it's a bit different up Norf, there's bugger all Buckets down here that wouldn't smash the new Gixxer150 including my own and mines about the scruffiest

[jellywrestler]

from where we stand the choice of bike for the GXRS series looks to be a missed opportunity.

who is 'we' and just how many of 'we' are there that would go out and purchase a brand spanking new bike to go bucket racing? Suzuki have been top selling brand in nz for 19 years now, they're not fools, they would have looked carefully into this, so carefully that they sent one of these bikes to europe for brake declaration soo it would comply with nz roads.
how many of 'we' went out and purchased a new FXR150 when they were the weapon to have?

[mr bucketracer]

who is 'we' and just how many of 'we' are there that would go out and purchase a brand spanking new bike to go bucket racing? Suzuki have been top selling brand in nz for 19 years now, they're not fools, they would have looked carefully into this, so carefully that they sent one of these bikes to europe for brake declaration soo it would comply with nz roads.
how many of 'we' went out and purchased a new FXR150 when they were the weapon to have?in 2006 the Fxr could not be bought new. I would of bought the gsxr150 for a young rider if the injected bike. At least could be made a good bucket after

[mr bucketracer]

I would of liked it as a road bike

[jellywrestler]

there's bugger all Buckets down here that wouldn't smash the new Gixxer150 including my own and mines about the scruffiest the new gixxer lap record at manfield is about 13 seconds off the development lap record, aren't buckets all about modifying bikes, there's somethung to aim for.

[sidecar bob]

You really don't seem to know that much about the class or maybe it's a bit different up Norf, there's bugger all Buckets down here that wouldn't smash the new Gixxer150 including my own and mines about the scruffiest

I figured that, So why the fear of these things?
Or are the bucket guys worried it won't be retard central anymore if normal people on normal bikes turn up?

[Kickaha]

who is 'we' and just how many of 'we' are there that would go out and purchase a brand spanking new bike to go bucket racing? Suzuki have been top selling brand in nz for 19 years now, they're not fools, they would have looked carefully into this, so carefully that they sent one of these bikes to europe for brake declaration soo it would comply with nz roads.
how many of 'we' went out and purchased a new FXR150 when they were the weapon to have?

Why would it have to go to Europe to get one?

Not so much going out and buying them for Buckets as giving the guys who did buy them extra opportunity to be able to race them and with being Bucket legal quite possibly making them worth more for resale


the new gixxer lap record at manfield is about 13 seconds off the development lap record, aren't buckets all about modifying bikes, there's something to aim for.

We'll see when they get to Ruapuna and Levels as that will give us direct comparison against Bucket lap times here

[mr bucketracer]

the new gixxer lap record at manfield is about 13 seconds off the development lap record, aren't buckets all about modifying bikes, there's somethung to aim for.what time was that

[mr bucketracer]

I figured that, So why the fear of these things?
Or are the bucket guys worried it won't be retard central anymore if normal people on normal bikes turn up?5 speed 2 valve . It's a Gn125 wIth fairing and a 150 kit . We are worred

[jellywrestler]

5 speed 2 valve . It's a Gn125 wIth fairing and a 150 kit . We are worred

they do a naked version to for a couple of hundy cheaper for youse fullas who like streetfighters.

[jellywrestler]

what time was that

about lunchtime; 18th october

[mr bucketracer]

about lunchtime; 18th octoberlol , i just had the times of the fxr150s when raced at manfeild (tim gibbs series )

[jellywrestler]

lol , i just had the times of the fxr150s when raced at manfeild (tim gibs series )

and they are?

[mr bucketracer]

and they are?denis charlet near flat 133s with 3hp over stock , me 135s with a stock bike , tt100 tires , would be good to compair , my mate had the 3third bike doing simler times , mike streeter . old man out the back door lol

[jellywrestler]

would be good to compair

time and date already supplied. 12.26 to be exact, as the first race was wet, second still a damp track.

[TZ350]

denis charlet near flat 133s with 3hp over stock , me 135s with a stock bike , tt100 tires , would be good to compair


time and date already supplied. 12.26 to be exact, as the first race was wet, second still a damp track.

Gixxer Cup Demo (3) Manfield Track Length 1.3km. Time and date as quoted above.

Harry Parker sets lap record at 1:44.356 on lap 5. Average speed 44.846kmh.

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/4660600

By comparison, at the same meeting.

Mini Moto 70cc Road

Jade Reynolds 1:07.764 Average speed 69.063kmh and he got better 1:05.926 for an average of 70.989kmh

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/4660187

These were two of the better riders. 38seconds a lap difference.

Personally I would expect any of the better Buckets around today to be competitive with a 70cc Mini Moto.

[husaberg]

Well that's fairly ironic right there, given the discussion in this thread by a small minded Bunch of amateur race bike builders, who seem to resist any attempts to drag their class out of the dark ages.
Maybe there are people out ther that would like to race at that level that lack the skills & equipment to make bikes look as embarrassing as you guys manage to. Have a think about that.
Come on BOB
Well then, if thats what its all about, why are the GSXRRRR's cup people not including buckets in their new class:lol:
Maybe its time they dragged their new class into the future.
Same with the Classics, Seriously What are those 7Rs and 40M Manx Nortons afraid of...............:clap:
Same with the pr 89s FFS why can't people race a 2006 R1 bike in that class as well.:killingme

[jellywrestler]

Gixxer Cup Demo (3) Manfield Track Length 1.3km.

Harry Parker sets lap record at 1:44.356 on lap 5. Average speed 44.846kmh.

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/4660600

By comparison

Mini Moto 70cc Road Manfield Track Length 1.3km.

Jade Reynolds 1:07.764 Average speed 69.063kmh.

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/4660187

by comparison?? the mini moto was on the short track including the return to pit slip road, the Gixxers were on the full track so no comparison at all

[mr bucketracer]

No need to say anything lol . And they put lap record there lol

[mr bucketracer]

OMG just thinking . That slower than the old man was doing lol .he will be a happy man when I tell him.

[TZ350]

by comparison?? the mini moto was on the short track including the return to pit slip road, the Gixxers were on the full track so no comparison at all

Both are listed in Mylaps as 1.3km

[mr bucketracer]

Both are listed in Mylaps as 1.3kmthey must of not changed the track size when recorded . You not to know

[jellywrestler]

Both are listed in Mylaps as 1.3km

that maybe, but i was there commentating. CTAS recorded it too.

[jellywrestler]

OMG just thinking . That slower than the old man was doing lol .he will be a happy man when I tell him.

grown men don't say OMG

[TZ350]

by comparison?? the mini moto was on the short track including the return to pit slip road, the Gixxers were on the full track so no comparison at all


Harry Parker(Gixxer) at 1:44s

Maybe this is a better comparison and more likely, but the Gixxer is 9 seconds a lap adrift of the FXR, still early days though.


me 1:35s with a stock bike (FXR150), tt100 tires

[Bert]

Maybe this is a better comparison and more likely, but the Gixxer is 9 seconds a lap adrift of the FXR, still early days though.


Manfeild. Me with a 1:29.761
I reckon with a skinny kid on a fast bike you could se a 26 around there.

I don’t recall this having been beaten over the last few years (could be wrong).

But 1:44 Is better than >100km/hr average.
Our junior class has a range from 1:21s to 1:50s, so they have a home.
Not too bad given they are producing the same power as my lawnmower.
If it can get more kids into our sport then fken yay.

I still don’t understand bucketters objections and referenced rules.
Can someone actually point them out to me?
As I’m making a start on our VMCC rules for next year; my reading of the current rules is different (as previously stated).

[jellywrestler]

But 1:44 I’d better than >100km/hr average.


before you read too much into this, i don't recognise one single name there that has actually road raced before, for a number of them it was their first day on the bike and first day on a track, remember to race the class you mustn't have scored any top five results in a road racing national championship race, ever. so they're all newbies.

[TZ350]

Our junior class has a range from 1:21s to 1:50s, so they have a home.
Not too bad given they are producing the same power as my lawnmower.
If it can get more kids into our sport then fken yay.

Absolutely.


I still don’t understand bucketters objections ...

One could be the legal protest problem of having a skinny kid cleaning up with a bike that is technically ineligible.

Or the skinny kid on an ineligible bike taking down the championship leader.

Or the newbie skinny kid on a technically ineligible bike causing harm and injury thereby exposing the organizers to legal liability, something of a real problem in these OHS times.

And another was pointing out that for cart tracks they could not be totally standard bikes but would have to be properly nylon-ed for track protection.

Earlier in this thread I read comments from Bucketters who in spite of any technical problems, would be open to the idea.

And so maybe the real biggie is the perceived attitude of some who have gone about promoting/pushing the idea and that seems to have eroded quite a bit of the natural goodwill that Bucketters generally welcome newbies with.


before you read too much into this, for a number of them it was their first day on the bike and first day on a track, remember they're all newbies.

That might be true but I was comparing front runner with front runner.

But like you say, Gixxers are a beginners class and that along with the fact a Gixxer is old air cooled technology, it could easily account for much of the time difference I expect, so not exactly comparing apples with apples I guess.

[jellywrestler]

And another was pointing out that for cart tracks they could not be totally standard bikes but would have to be properly nylon-ed for track protection.

as they are they are not totally standard bikes, having had some work done to get them legal for road racing, and there has been some nylon added already.
this is clearly a case of cup half full or cup half empty attitude.

[FastFred]

... this is clearly a case of cup half full or cup half empty attitude.

Might be easier if you lost the attitude.

[jellywrestler]

Might be easier if you lost the attitude.

there's a lot of that, tall poppy syndrome, and a large proportion on here...

[ellipsis]

there's a lot of that, tall poppy syndrome, and a large proportion on here...

...I was going to pull an evil amount of Dock plants around our pond before I went up to Manfield a couple of weeks ago...didn't have time and when I got back they had grown from a foot high to well over three to four foot...I got rid of the tall Poppies, as fuckwits from the city were jumping fences out in the country stealing them, as they thought they could milk them...fuckwits...

[jellywrestler]

And another was pointing out that for cart tracks they could not be totally standard bikes but would have to be properly nylon-ed for track protection.



can you show me one example of a bucket racer that except for the nylon add ons is totally standard?

[TZ350]

I think the thinking was that adding extra nylon for a cart track might put them off side with the Gixxer no mods rules.

No, stock is not a Bucket requirement but there probably are quite a few FXR's that are pretty stock.

There was a (air cooled I think??) Hysong powered bike at Kaitoki that was pretty dominant, maybe still is. So if the Gixxers could be nylon-ed up to Kaitoki standards without disqualifying themselves from the Gixxer class I guess they could be a reasonable ride at cart tracks if the minor eligibility issue could be sorted.

[jellywrestler]

I think the thinking was that adding extra nylon for a cart track might put them off side with the Gixxer no mods rules.

.

simple, race bikes need fettling, add the nylon for the kart tracks, remove it for the national championship once a year series, the suzuki series don't apply the national class rules, i doubt the winter series does either.
people will find a way to put them on the track, if they want to.
i would have liked to see better spec'd models here, why, cause then we put the word out to south east asia to bring all their bikes over and have a real party, although given the cost of these it would probably be worth them just buying a bike here and ditching it at the airport, or bucket track and going back home....

[mr bucketracer]

simple, race bikes need fettling, add the nylon for the kart tracks, remove it for the national championship once a year series, the suzuki series don't apply the national class rules, i doubt the winter series does either.
people will find a way to put them on the track, if they want to.
i would have liked to see better spec'd models here, why, cause then we put the word out to south east asia to bring all their bikes over and have a real party, although given the cost of these it would probably be worth them just buying a bike here and ditching it at the airport, or bucket track and going back home....what I would off liked to of seen

[jellywrestler]

what I would off liked to of seen

again, how many people go and buy a new bike to race that will put bread and butter on the dealers table?

anyway, here's what aussie done, what do your aussie bucket mates have to say about these?
http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/range/road/sport-sport-touring/gsx-s125/features

here's the indian gixxer cup AIR COOLED bikes
http://www.suzukigixxercup.in/#popup

[mr bucketracer]

Wonder how much that bike is . Has the beSt of both worlds. Made it 100 for F5 or 150 for f4

[jellywrestler]

Wonder how much that bike is . Has the beSt of both worlds. Made it 100 for F5 or 150 for f4

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/july/suzuki-gsx-r125-gsx-s125-pricing-confirmed/

$7602.21, for the bike alone, here they're $5995 with leathers boots gloves and brain bucket, now maybe we start to understand suzukis model choice?

[mr bucketracer]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/july/suzuki-gsx-r125-gsx-s125-pricing-confirmed/

$7602.21, for the bike alone, here they're $5995 with leathers boots gloves and brain bucket, now maybe we start to understand suzukis model choice?why aways twice the price in pounds ?dunlop tires 125 gp 550 pounds or 550 ozzy . I don't get that place

[Drew]

I think the thinking was that adding extra nylon for a cart track might put them off side with the Gixxer no mods rules.

No, stock is not a Bucket requirement but there probably are quite a few FXR's that are pretty stock.

There was a (air cooled I think??) Hysong powered bike at Kaitoki that was pretty dominant, maybe still is. So if the Gixxers could be nylon-ed up to Kaitoki standards without disqualifying themselves from the Gixxer class I guess they could be a reasonable ride at cart tracks if the minor eligibility issue could be sorted.
Well, since we're putting together a nylon kit that will be straight bolt on to make them kart track friendly I can't se3 a problem.

I'm tempted to offer a standard service offer to make the motor legal too.

Fucken prove I didn't run a honing tool down the bore cunts.

[Drew]

Fact is, th ese kids need seat time and a good environment to develop riding skills.

Bucket racing fucktards clearly fall well fucking short since you all get sandy vaginas about the bike Suzuki are taking a loss on to provide.

Cocks. Fucktards the fucking lot of ya. Eat shit and fucking die cunts.

[jasonu]

Fact is, th ese kids need seat time and a good environment to develop riding skills.

Bucket racing fucktards clearly fall well fucking short since you all get sandy vaginas about the bike Suzuki are taking a loss on to provide.

Cocks. Fucktards the fucking lot of ya. Eat shit and fucking die cunts.

They should be made to run off the back of sidecars.

[TZ350]

Bucket racing fucktards clearly fall well fucking short since you all get sandy vaginas ... Cocks. Fucktards the fucking lot of ya. Eat shit and fucking die cunts.

Don't be shy, tell us what you really think ... :laugh:

[jellywrestler]

Bucket racing fucktards clearly fall well fucking short since you all get sandy vaginas about the bike Suzuki are taking a loss on to provide.


http://www.dolphinseas.net/suzuki-motorcycles.html
$1992 NZD at todays exchange rate

[mr bucketracer]

found them $2213.00nz out of india, cant be bothed posting as means nothing

[Drew]

http://www.dolphinseas.net/suzuki-motorcycles.html
$1992 NZD at todays exchange rate
Cool. But that's not what the punters are buying is it.

[jellywrestler]

Cool. But that's not what the punters are buying is it.

Of course not, it's been partly prepared for racing has a stand and $4k's worth of riding gear, and may or may not have been honed.