Call for motorcyclists to stop 'lane splitting' overtaking after 10 riders die in Jan

[Paulo]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/100923719/call-for-motorcyclists-to-stop-dangerous-overtaking-after-10-riders-die-in-january

[2fst4u]

That's not anti propaganda. That was a fairly balanced and sound analysis of the manoeuvre, backed up with statistics. Seems fine.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[EJK]

Must be riding under too much pressure to go home sooner.

[Moi]

That's not anti propaganda. That was a fairly balanced and sound analysis of the manoeuvre, backed up with statistics. Seems fine.

Have to agree. And Clive Double-Barrel actually made sensible comments.

Assistant commissioner for road policing Sandra Venables said half of the motorcycle deaths had been caused by dangerous overtaking, and she urged motorcyclists not to take unnecessary risks. - there's a big difference between lane splitting in a sensible manner and a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre, although both involve an element of risk.

Biggest issue with lane splitting is that NZ drivers can not drive to the left of the road or the left of their lane...

[release_the_bees]

"94,238 dollars paid out in ACC claims in 2017"

Surely there's a couple of zeros missing from that number.

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[Paulo]

"94,238 dollars paid out in ACC claims in 2017"

Surely there's a couple of zeros missing from that number.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

actually I'm surprised by the vast majority of the comment are pro motorcycling.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's not anti propaganda. That was a fairly balanced and sound analysis of the manoeuvre, backed up with statistics. Seems fine.

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You must've read a diff article than I did then.

[johcar]

"94,238 dollars paid out in ACC claims in 2017"

Surely there's a couple of zeros missing from that number.

Sent from my SM-G900I using TapatalkBut they neglect to declare how many $$$ were collected from motorcyclists in the form of ACC levies in the rego price...

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[2fst4u]

You must've read a diff article than I did then.How? There was a spokesperson for the transport agency saying it was safe and several lines from some other geyser saying that splitting in itself wasn't the issue, unsafe overtaking in general was. Seems pretty fair.

[release_the_bees]

But they neglect to declare how many $$$ were collected from motorcyclists in the form of ACC levies in the rego price...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using TapatalkThat's what I was thinking too.

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[Crasherfromwayback]

How? There was a spokesperson for the transport agency saying it was safe and several lines from some other geyser saying that splitting in itself wasn't the issue, unsafe overtaking in general was. Seems pretty fair.

Well here's the headline of the article *Call for motorcyclists to stop 'lane splitting' overtaking after 10 riders die in January *. Care to show me the number of riders killed whilst lane splitting?

[2fst4u]

Well here's the headline of the article *Call for motorcyclists to stop 'lane splitting' overtaking after 10 riders die in January *. Care to show me the number of riders killed whilst lane splitting?🤷 quite a minor point in the scheme of the whole article I think. Stuff isn't a bastion of good journalism.

[FJRider]

Assistant commissioner for road policing Sandra Venables said half of the motorcycle deaths had been caused by dangerous overtaking, and she urged motorcyclists not to take unnecessary risks.

That has been known for some time ...


there's a big difference between lane splitting in a sensible manner and a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre, although both involve an element of risk.

Lane splitting IS overtaking ...


Biggest issue with lane splitting is that NZ drivers can not drive to the left of the road or the left of their lane...

And Motorcyclists are not allowed to overtake on the left of vehicles in their lane ... and the picture in the article seems to show them doing so.

[FJRider]

But they neglect to declare how many $$$ were collected from motorcyclists in the form of ACC levies in the rego price...



How would that information affect the content and meaning of the article.

Higher ACC levy's than other vehicles give us no excuse to ride dangerously. If we do ... we only prove their point ... as ACC levy's are based on their belief (with good reason) that motorcycling is dangerous.

[release_the_bees]

I spent the last half an hour writing a comment to add to the stuff article, but it looks like the comments closed while I was doing so. I'll paste the comment in here, so that it wasn't a complete waste of time and effort.

-----------------------------

As a motorcyclist, I can see this from both points of view. There's nothing wrong with lane splitting, as long as it is done safely, and in a way where you always have an escape route should it be required.

Personally, I don't usually lane split unless the traffic is going slower than around 20 km/h. On the occasions where I do lane split, I find most car drivers to be courteous, and a lot of them make extra room for me as I pass (I'll give you a wave to say thanks if it is safe to do so). Of course there's always one or two morons who think it's a good idea to intentionally impede my progress, open car doors, change lanes without checking or indicating etc. But, by and large, lane splitting is a simple and pain free experience.

Most motorcyclists also split sensibly. However, a very small minority give the rest of us a bad name. Unfortunately, motorcycling does attract a certain amount of risk takers, but it doesn't mean we're all like that. For every genuinely idiotic motorcyclist that you see on the road, there's dozens of others trying to make their way to their destination as safely as possible.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you're a car driver, a motorcyclist, or you're driving a truck or a bus, we all have a responsibility to drive/ride safely, give 100% attention to our driving/riding, and do our absolute best to ensure that everybody arrives at their destination safely, and as painlessly as possible. If we all did that, all of the time, the roads would be much safer for everybody.

[FJRider]

... Care to show me the number of riders killed whilst lane splitting?

Are you saying NO Motorcyclists have been killed lane splitting ... ??? :shit: :confused:

Considering the Motorcycling fraternity's distaste of WRB's ... one might ask how many Motorcyclists have died from hitting one ... :shifty:

More Motorcyclists have been injured (at least) lane splitting than those hitting WRB"s :doh:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Are you saying NO Motorcyclists have been killed lane splitting ... ??? :shit: :confused:

Considering the Motorcycling fraternity's distaste of WRB's ... one might ask how many Motorcyclists have died from hitting one ... :shifty:

More Motorcyclists have been injured (at least) lane splitting than those hitting WRB"s :doh:

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I know a certain KB member that got dismembered by a wire rope barrier. Don't know of any that died lane splitting.

[FJRider]

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I know a certain KB member that got dismembered by a wire rope barrier.

A (as in one) member .. ??? :mellow:

I know of one that died after hitting one ... but NOT because he hit one ... <_<


Don't know of any that died lane splitting.

You don't know ... so it didn't happen then .. ??? :confused:

But I know of a few that did. I doubt if they were the only ones ... :shifty:

[Crasherfromwayback]

A (as in one) member .. ??? :mellow:

I know of one that died after hitting one ... but NOT because he hit one ... <_<



You don't know ... so it didn't happen then .. ??? :confused:

But I know of a few that did. I doubt if they were the only ones ... :shifty:

You can twist any answer any fucking way you like. I couldn't give a shit.

[FJRider]

You can twist any answer any fucking way you like. I couldn't give a shit.

As the "Powers that be" would probably class any lane splitting accident as an overtaking incident (feel free to argue) ... you might be hard pressed to find out how many there actually were.

Twisting or using reverse logic ... ??? A moot point but do we really give a fuck .. ?? It was MY point of view ... and my post was not mean't/intended to prove you wrong.


I spent a few years in the Wellington region on motorcycles ... and saw quite a number go down after lane splitting on the motorways. I've also seen a few clobbered by overtaking cars coming the other way on the Paekakariki highway.

Those WRB's in the center seem to have stopped most of that now. Nobody mentions (or knows) how many (motorcyclist) lives those WRB's have saved.

The blood stains on the tarmac from friends is never a pretty sight. And I've seen a few. I'm guessing you have too ...

[WNJ]

And Motorcyclists are not allowed to overtake on the left of vehicles in their lane ... and the picture in the article seems to show them doing so.

What picture are you looking at ??? To me it looks like a motorcyclist in his own space in the right hand lane (possible lane splitting implied )might be a different story if it ACTUALLY showed the rider BETWEEN two cars but clearly this picture does not,

[FJRider]

What picture are you looking at ??? To me it looks like a motorcyclist in his own space in the right hand lane (possible lane splitting implied )might be a different story if it ACTUALLY showed the rider BETWEEN two cars but clearly this picture does not,

Cassina might say ... you're being semantical ... :innocent:

No pictures ... didn't happen ... right ..??

[AllanB]

Well here's the headline of the article *Call for motorcyclists to stop 'lane splitting' overtaking after 10 riders die in January *. Care to show me the number of riders killed whilst lane splitting?

Decent journalism died years ago with the internet and has been replaced by three minute wonders.

I picked up on exactly the same thing as you and the editor should have. They imply ten motorcyclists died this year from lane splitting. Which is lies.

And carry on to fail to state if even one died by lane splitting. They have rolled two MC accident related topics into one article without clear separation.

Both subject matters are worthy of decent writing.

[Reckless]

Balanced bugger off??

The whole thing falls on its arse because the link between dangerous overtaking and lanesplitting just isn't there.
So a question? how many people have died doing what the guy is doing in pic one? Splitting in moderate to heavy traffic?
That is his supposed cause of the "Eight motorcyclists and two pillion passengers were killed on New Zealand roads in January"
I suggest fuck all or none.

You cant ban something that is unrelated to the deaths?
Case closed you honor the facts arn't balanced and the argument floored.

His own article even disproves his lane splitting accusation
"and most motorcycle fatalities occurred at intersections, Matthew-Wilson said."

I guess written by a car driver with little understanding of riding just pissed off he has to sit in the que :brick:

Other than that bikers should get their shit together, in that he's correct only about the high road toll figure.

[MD]

I lane split for miles every day and I know which riders to let pass me and I keep a distance from them. A few go a tad too quick and tad too close to cars. I have once stopped to pick up a rider who got knocked down while splitting. That was a long time ago so on averages us Wellington splitters seem to be doing OK.

Twice this week another rider has split passed me closer than I would consider polite and it does gives you a bit of a surprise when you can't hear them approaching. I know in my car it is not easy to see them coming up in you mirrors sometimes. Just 'zoom' and they're gone. I'm probably more likely to get clipped by another bike than a car.

I agree with Crasher the headline was anti bikes and misrepresented the facts. Some of the favourable comments surprised me though. Even the smelly Lemon guide prick was actually supporting bikes.

[johcar]

How would that information affect the content and meaning of the article.

Higher ACC levy's than other vehicles give us no excuse to ride dangerously. If we do ... we only prove their point ... as ACC levy's are based on their belief (with good reason) that motorcycling is dangerous.The way I read that item about $$$, gave me the impression that we are not paying our own way and are a financial burden to the hospital system. I suspect many more dollars are collected that expended...

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[Voltaire]

The road toll is a tragedy.

The Herald story probably does not present the facts and tries to link lanesplitting and overtaking.

I see lane splitting as risky, you can minimise the risk by doing it carefully but you can't control the dozens of cars you pass.

Overtaking is risky as any time spent on the other side of the road exposes you to oncoming traffic.

They are correct in that motorcycle riders need to take some ownership as you have to ask yourself " would I do this in a car"

if the answer is no your probably taking on a greater level of risk.

We have all seen them spliiting at speed, riding with shorts, T shirt and little else, riding in groups a metre apart.

Hard to say about the ACC levy as bikers in the older age bracket are on higher salaries than say the under 25's who

traditionally bought them back in the day.

My mate said he was out riding on Old North Road and a peloton of motorcycles came around a 'slow' corner Moto GP style.

He said it did not really leave much room for error.

Be careful out there and remember as my Dad used to say " better dead late than late dead" ( especially going to work).

[Ocean1]

The road toll is a tragedy.

The Herald story probably does not present the facts and tries to link lanesplitting and overtaking.

I see lane splitting as risky, you can minimise the risk by doing it carefully but you can't control the dozens of cars you pass.

Overtaking is risky as any time spent on the other side of the road exposes you to oncoming traffic.

They are correct in that motorcycle riders need to take some ownership as you have to ask yourself " would I do this in a car"

if the answer is no your probably taking on a greater level of risk.

We have all seen them spliiting at speed, riding with shorts, T shirt and little else, riding in groups a metre apart.

Hard to say about the ACC levy as bikers in the older age bracket are on higher salaries than say the under 25's who

traditionally bought them back in the day.

My mate said he was out riding on Old North Road and a peloton of motorcycles came around a 'slow' corner Moto GP style.

He said it did not really leave much room for error.

Be careful out there and remember as my Dad used to say " better dead late than late dead" ( especially going to work).

The road toll is a fucking miracle. How many overtaking procedures are completed every day without killing anyone?

The whole shock outrage thing is utterly asinine, and it's symptomatic of the sort of road rage induced imbecility that is completely immune to any form of rebuttal. And I hate the fact that this is simply the shape of our society, that ill informed memes are what drives actual policy.

The only possible response to any of this populist shit is a dignified anarchy. Fuck em.

[Floppy disk]

Did you read the article in Stuff (Link below). Basically, because most bikers die in intersections, they want lane splitting to stop.
What are your thoughts?

Link: https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/100923719/call-for-motorcyclists-to-stop-dangerous-overtaking-after-10-riders-die-in-january

[FlangMasterJ]

Yeah read that. There was no mention of how many accidents have resulted from lane splitting.

Lane splitting is one of those situations where I feel the least bit intimidated or least bit at risk.

[FlangMasterJ]

I wonder how many of those overtaking deaths has been due to trying to keep up on a group ride. I noticed in the news at the weekend one of the riders killed was on a group ride from all the bikes parked at the crash scene.

Oh right, is this this guys schtick? The group ride thing?

[Woodman]

I wonder how many of those overtaking deaths has been due to trying to keep up on a group ride. I noticed in the news at the weekend one of the riders killed was on a group ride from all the bikes parked at the crash scene.

All of them cassina. Every single bike crash is the result of pressure to keep up on group rides. They should ban motorcyclists from riding in numbers of any more than one motorcycle otherwise there acc premiums will increase by the number of motorcycles each rider is caught riding with.
Even training rides should be banned because A) They are useless and B) They are technically group rides.

[Akzle]

.
What are your thoughts?


i often wonder if anyone checks what's been posted recently before starting a new thread.


ban cars. vote akzle.


thread merge in 3...2...

[Akzle]

I wonder how many of those overtaking deaths has been due to trying to keep up on a group ride. I noticed in the news at the weekend one of the riders killed was on a group ride from all the bikes parked at the crash scene.

you're a fuckwit

[WNJ]

..............

[Mike.Gayner]

Fuck off cassina.

[Voltaire]

You will note though the story says nothing about how many of the deaths were due to group riding but I think from what I have seen they need to start putting statistics out on whether crashes were group riding related or not.

Ring up Mike Hosking, he's the curmudgeon go to .

335005

[Swoop]

Did you read the article in Stuff.
The regular level of utter shit from that "publication". Pure tripe and scaremongering to get a headline.

[Moi]

Maybe you need to get the NZTA to paint lane splitting lanes on the road then like they have done with cycle lanes. Just have them painted a different colour. I would not blame car drivers if they have not left a big enough gap in their lane for you to overtake. Maybe you could get the NZTA to widen all road lanes as well.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/42/0b/ec420b090357af67363b6ba736ae6981.jpg

[Woodman]

You will note though the story says nothing about how many of the deaths were due to group riding but I think from what I have seen they need to start putting statistics out on whether crashes were group riding related or not.

Yes you are quite right cassina. Although, how will they differentiate group riding and traffic? I think that requires some serious thought.

[Akzle]

You will note though the story says nothing about how many of the deaths were due to group riding

yes that's right. another thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the shit you wank on about. but hell if that'd stop you.

you're a fuckwit.

[Akzle]

The road toll is a fucking miracle. How many overtaking procedures are completed every day without killing anyone?

The whole shock outrage thing is utterly asinine, and it's symptomatic of the sort of road rage induced imbecility that is completely immune to any form of rebuttal. And I hate the fact that this is simply the shape of our society, that ill informed memes are what drives actual policy.

The only possible response to any of this populist shit is a dignified anarchy. Fuck em.

vote akzle

[Akzle]

Maybe you need to get the NZTA to paint lane splitting lanes on the road then like they have done with cycle lanes. Just have them painted a different colour. I would not blame car drivers if they have not left a big enough gap in their lane for you to overtake. Maybe you could get the NZTA to widen all road lanes as well.
you're a fuckwit

[FJRider]

The way I read that item about $$$, gave me the impression that we are not paying our own way and are a financial burden to the hospital system. I suspect many more dollars are collected that expended...



So they would have you believe. The levy paid as part of (and added to) your vehicle(s) licensing fee's is not paid directly into the ACC bank account. The Consolidated Fund gets the dosh and ACC gets it's funding as needed from there.

There is NO bean counter in this country that can state how much is contributed to ACC by any one person into the Government coffers ... as each individual contributes via GST (and tax from their income [even those on welfare pay tax]) on their purchases whenever they buy from commercial outlets.

Some obviously then pay less than others. But I guess ... they get as much as they can from where they can. And want more.

MORE ... is (apparently) better ... for everybody.

Sadly ... those that pay less want the others to pay more to cover the shortfall. The amount of shortfall (or even if there IS a shortfall) depends on who you listen to ... or who is talking at the time.

Bottom line ... ACC is a Government Department funded from the Government account(s).

[FJRider]

Maybe you need to get the NZTA to paint lane splitting lanes on the road then like they have done with cycle lanes. Just have them painted a different colour. I would not blame car drivers if they have not left a big enough gap in their lane for you to overtake. Maybe you could get the NZTA to widen all road lanes as well.

Why not make the lanes more narrow and thus have room to put a motorcycle ONLY lane ... ??? :devil2:

All work funded by ACC ...

[Woodman]

It would be real easy at the time of a motorcycle crash to determine if the rider was group riding or not as their group riding friends would be at the scene as well.

Possibly, but if they were real friends then they would just say they were "traffic" to save the guy the increased acc levies.

[eldog]

Anything wrong in adding motorcycles to T2/T3/Bus lanes?
Shirley motorcycles are more economical/create less congestion than a single passenger vehicle?

well maybe not in Gore...

[Akzle]

even those on welfare pay tax

prove it .

[skippa1]

you're a fuckwit
Is this news

[FJRider]

prove it .

Most of the Benefits are taxable . As is ACC compensation payments taxable ...


https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/products/benefit-rates/benefit-rates-april-2017.html

[FJRider]

It would be real easy at the time of a motorcycle crash to determine if the rider was group riding or not as their group riding friends would be at the scene as well.

So ... motorcycles can't group ride ... but cars can group drive ... even with the "Boy-Racer" bylaws on the major cities ... ???

[FJRider]

Anything wrong in adding motorcycles to T2/T3/Bus lanes?
Shirley motorcycles are more economical/create less congestion than a single passenger vehicle?

Motorcyclists sharing a lane ... ??? How rude to think THAT should happen ...


well maybe not in Gore...

Yeah well ... not much call for bus lanes in Gore. They only got a bike lane just recently ...

[Moi]

Anything wrong in adding motorcycles to T2/T3/Bus lanes?
Shirley motorcycles are more economical/create less congestion than a single passenger vehicle?

well maybe not in Gore...

https://at.govt.nz/driving-parking/motorcycles-and-scooters/motorcycle-safety/

[Berries]

When I read in that article that there is a different law on local roads to highways I realised it was a crock of shit. I also took from the headline that ten riders had been killed while lane splitting which surprised me. But then it said there were eight riders and two pillions killed so who knows how many crashes so I thought I would have a look.

As always, never good reading when you get in to the nitty gritty. So far only five crashes have made it on to the national database -

In one crash the rider overtook a number of cars and didn’t get back on his side in time so hit an oncoming car head on. That should get cassina going.

In another a bike hit a car head on a winding road, no fault given to the car driver. Not much information on that one.

In another the rider overtook a car in front as a ute in front of the car turned right.

And then another where the rider went wide on a right hand bend and left the road – riding with others but no evidence of being under pressure to keep up and not overtaking at the time.

Finally we have a truck failing to give way to a moped at a crossroads.

No crashes lane splitting but two as a result of overtaking, using the generally accepted term for overtaking which is passing on the right. This article just confuses the shit out of me because there is a massive difference between lane splitting between two lanes of traffic going the same way where you have to try quite hard to kill yourself and overtaking on the right with oncoming traffic where to be honest you could be wiped out at any moment.

Anyroad, confusing story with a confusing headline. Figured something was wrong when I found myself agreeing with that arse with the sideburns.

[Reckless]

Again we cant have a half intelligent conversation about an article without stupid bitch Cassina turning it into a "Cassina Group riding stouch"
So the whole thread AGAIN becomes about her???

When the fuck are the Mods going to kick her the fuck outa here or you fuckheads going to ignore "everything" she posts incl the "you're a Fuckwit" responses.
Shes an attention slut, any attention is fine! :weird:

Over 10 years on here, been some jerks over the years but never more felt like relinquishing my log on to Kiwibiker :(

Rant over :rolleyes:

[eldog]

https://at.govt.nz/driving-parking/motorcycles-and-scooters/motorcycle-safety/
:2thumbsupI musta forgotten about that.

but WHY don’t they put that on the road signs?

i saw this out West AKL the other night, wondered about this.....
saw the thread.... guess I was too tired at 2400 to remember.

Bus only lanes, probably the reason why I haven’t used T2,T3 lanes.
i am one of those people if the did it once wrong, I would get nailed.

[eldog]

Motorcyclists sharing a lane ... ??? How rude to think THAT should happen ...

Funny you should write that.

i SHARED a lane the other night on a dead straight bit of road.
lucky I was on the left hand painted edge, the other bike took the rest of the lane, it was going in the OPPOSITE direction.

it was on my side of the road.

i have no idea how it missed me:no:

so grateful I was keeping an eye out.

for quite a while after, I thought seriously about giving up riding it was that close.
i still have flashbacks whew.

[Akzle]

Is this news

no. but if everyone else stopped trying to discuss anything with it, and all it ever got was negative re-inforcement for being here spouting it's horseshit, it might just fuck off.
(or, exceedingly less likely: buck up, learn something and engage in positive discussion)

[Akzle]

:

Over 10 years on here, been some jerks over the years but never more felt like relinquishing my log on to Kiwibiker :(

:

hell son, don't let us keep you.

[Akzle]

:2thumbsupI musta forgotten about that.

but WHY don’t they put that on the road signs?

i saw this out West AKL the other night, wondered about this.....
saw the thread.... guess I was too tired at 2400 to remember.

Bus only lanes, probably the reason why I haven’t used T2,T3 lanes.
i am one of those people if the did it once wrong, I would get nailed.

too tired to realise 2400 isn't a time?

[Scuba_Steve]

Maybee Cassina is a propaganda machine editor...
I mean "calls to stop lane spitting after 10 deaths", has shit all to nothing to do with lane splitting & shows no relation between deaths & splitting or why it should be considered for discussion but somehow "lane-splitting is the cause"
"any thread ever" usually shit all to nothing to do with group riding shows no relation to the discussion but somehow "group riding is the cause of all problems for bikes" and is important to be in every thread ever

Fun Fact (for Cassina) Most lane splitting is done singular during commute, NOT on weekend group rides; & no, 2 or more bikers in vicinity of each other on their way to work does NOT constitute a "group ride"

[Berries]

too tired to realise 2400 isn't a time?
'Tis on my cooker.

[eldog]

too tired to realise 2400 isn't a time?
On a 24 hour clock, well I never.
got home at 0100 if that helps.

up past your bedtime eh?

[Akzle]

On a 24 hour clock, well I never.
got home at 0100 if that helps.

up past your bedtime eh?

day starts at 00:00.

finishes at 23:59:59:99

[eldog]

day starts at 00:00.

finishes at 23:59:59:99

whatever happened to the decimal system?

someone should read the Californian method of lane splitting, its a sensible approach.

they have a decent number of lanes, and a much higher speed.

but the drivers seem to have a different approach. not all trying to get 1 car length ahead. like AKL ones :bleh:

[Akzle]

whatewver happened to the decimal system?


sounds stupid.
shit's based on circles.

but that's mix n match hours:minutes:seconds:split (1/100)

[jasonu]

whatewver happened to the decimal system?

someone should read the Californian method of lane splitting, its a sensible approach.

they have a decent number of lanes, and a much higher speed.

but the drivers are seem to have a different approach. not all trying to get 1 car length ahead. like NZ ones :bleh:

Fixed it for you

[Ixion]

I have searched the Stuff website for articles on motorcycle deaths since Jan 1. I found 10 articles specifying fatal motorcycles crashes.

Of these , not a single one had anything to do with lane splitting. In fact, except for one, which was on a racetrack, all were on one lane each way country-ish roads. I could tell this because Stuff , conveniently though pruriently usually include pictures of the crash site (often with the mangled bike for a bit more sensationalism).

So, the article is pure falsehood.

I shall be lodging a formal complaint with the Press Council

Ixion

[FJRider]

So, the article is pure falsehood.


Ixion

At least it takes the heat off those dangerous FOREIGN drivers that are (apparently) a menace on NZ roads.

Motorcyclists are (apparently) just a menace to themselves.

[Swoop]

no. but if everyone else stopped trying to discuss anything with it, and all it ever got was negative re-inforcement for being here spouting it's horseshit, it might just fuck off.
It hasn't worked so far.


I have searched the Stuff website for articles on motorcycle deaths since Jan 1. I found 10 articles specifying fatal motorcycles crashes.

Of these , not a single one had anything to do with lane splitting. In fact, except for one, which was on a racetrack, all were on one lane each way country-ish roads. I could tell this because Stuff , conveniently though pruriently usually include pictures of the crash site (often with the mangled bike for a bit more sensationalism).

So, the article is pure falsehood.

I shall be lodging a formal complaint with the Press Council

Ixion
Good on ya Ix.

"stuff" is nothing more than a gossip site, which has standards of journalism that could walk under a snake's arse whilst wearing a top hat.

[FJRider]

'Tis on my cooker.

24.00 or 24:00 is a time. 2400 is not ... ;)

[FJRider]

no. but if everyone else stopped trying to discuss anything with it, and all it ever got was negative re-inforcement for being here spouting it's horseshit, it might just fuck off.
(or, exceedingly less likely: buck up, learn something and engage in positive discussion)

If I continually told you that you were a Fuckwit ... would YOU go away .. ??? :shifty: (or stay just to piss me off .. ??)

[Ulsterkiwi]

Seems the consensus is that Stuff?/Fairfax cannot write for shit, unfortunately we (including myself) continue to give them oxygen by reading their uninformed shit.
I see pretty reasonable comments on here, apart from she who cannot be named. What I read of the Stuff comments was disappointing, either car drivers screaming for a ban or riders screaming it was all the car drivers fault. Few if any taking ownership of their own contribution to the issues around filtering.

As a commuter, I try to time my trips to avoid the buildups requiring filtering but that is not always possible or predictable. When I do filter I have a set of self imposed rules I follow.

1. When the speed of traffic exceeds 35kph I am looking for a gap to rejoin normal traffic. I can happily keep my bike balanced moving at 5-7kph but the bike is inherently less stable and its harder work. Its easier to move at 10-20kph. So when things get to 35+kph my stability is absolutely not compromised and I am less likely to have a car pull a fast lane change with no indication or looking, its harder for them to do it while stationery or at low speed, they are basically lazy fuckers.
2. I do not filter past major merges. Too many things going on, cars moving from the nearside to offside lane, aggressive merging vehicles who just plough on whether or not anyone is giving them room etc etc
3. I do not filter in the rain. Visibility is reduced, things get blurry, majority of road users make NO allowance for changing conditions so it all becomes too risky.
4. I do not use the hard shoulder. Car drivers are used to the idea of traffic on their right when in multilane roads, they are not used to vehicles on the hard shoulder and it pisses everyone off.
5. I do not filter approaching a bus stop. Those fuckers (the bus drivers, not the bus stops) are just evil and will drive right over you.
6. I do not use my indicator. That sends confusing messages, I am not changing lanes, I am using space in the lane I am already moving in. For visibility I have a big fuck off LED headlight, two big fuck off Aux LED lights all on a big fuck off bike and I wear a white helmet. If they don't see that, a wee blinking orange light will make bugger all difference.

So far that has worked for me. Others will take a different approach which is I am sure equally successful for them. I do find it hard to understand the people who split when the traffic is moving nicely at 80/90 kph and that isn't fast enough!

I wonder, if we had some kind of law like the Aussies have been using, would that avoid the apparent confusion for all concerned? It would make very clear that what seems to be getting classed on here as dodgy or ill advised would become unequivocally illegal.

http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/lane_filtering

[eldog]

24.00 or 24:00 is a time. 2400 is not ... ;)

Www.militarytimechart.com

have a read.

[Scuba_Steve]

6. I do not use my indicator. That sends confusing messages, I am not changing lanes, I am using space in the lane I am already moving in. For visibility I have a big fuck off LED headlight, two big fuck off Aux LED lights all on a big fuck off bike and I wear a white helmet. If they don't see that, a wee blinking orange light will make bugger all difference.

Yea I don't run indicator for the same reason.
Alot of cage drivers are struggling just to keep their cages on the road I don't like to confuse them with an indicator; I'll use it when I'm wanting to pull back into their line of traffic or turn off

[Berries]

I shall be lodging a formal complaint with the Press Council
Not sure that that is going to help reduce the number of people throwing their lives away. Ten dead is ten dead, regardless of the sensational and bullshit headline and dubious reporting throughout the article.

[Ixion]

Not sure that that is going to help reduce the number of people throwing their lives away. Ten dead is ten dead, regardless of the sensational and bullshit headline and dubious reporting throughout the article.

Actually, it may. The Stuff argument is 'ten motorcyclists died because of lane splitting. Ban lane splitting and solve the problem'.

Actually, no. Fake news, fake solution. If lane splitting were banned it would have made no difference at all to any of the ten crashes. But an anti lane splitting pogrom will prevent any attention being given to genuine solutions. Fake news, fake answers never solve real problems. They just get in the way. Fake news by the MSM should always be called out.

[actungbaby]

Have to agree. And Clive Double-Barrel actually made sensible comments.

Assistant commissioner for road policing Sandra Venables said half of the motorcycle deaths had been caused by dangerous overtaking, and she urged motorcyclists not to take unnecessary risks. - there's a big difference between lane splitting in a sensible manner and a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre, although both involve an element of risk.

Biggest issue with lane splitting is that NZ drivers can not drive to the left of the road or the left of their lane...

Havent read yet . no point me saying how i ride as that just personall view.
You think with way better power weight ratio. it should be safer.
But i guess some are using that to push the limits time over distance.
or thinking they have more time. or is it over taking on corners. on winding roads behind slower vechiles .maybe they need to to be more specific.
okay i say i dont really over take even on the open road never have . even in my mx5 car . you always just end up behind a carevan or truck anyways. not that saying trucks are slow or anoying . there just heavy. my view is anytime you on the other side the road there risk and i just dont want take that chance for a few maybe mins . my Uncle ex commisioninar of poilice . said it doesint make much time and why do it . he drove all oaver the north island for the job. so i guess he knows better than most. was a pleasure drive in his car . was so safe . and travelled quickly but never broke the speed limit.

[speedpro]

GPS is great for providing information - like predicted arrival time. Get stuck behind some slow dumbass for a time and watch the arrival time tick away. Not overtaking when safe opportunities present can easily add 1/2 hour to a decent trip, or more.

[russd7]

Havent read yet . no point me saying how i ride as that just personall view.
You think with way better power weight ratio. it should be safer.
But i guess some are using that to push the limits time over distance.
or thinking they have more time. or is it over taking on corners. on winding roads behind slower vechiles .maybe they need to to be more specific.
okay i say i dont really over take even on the open road never have . even in my mx5 car . you always just end up behind a carevan or truck anyways. not that saying trucks are slow or anoying . there just heavy. my view is anytime you on the other side the road there risk and i just dont want take that chance for a few maybe mins . my Uncle ex commisioninar of poilice . said it doesint make much time and why do it . he drove all oaver the north island for the job. so i guess he knows better than most. was a pleasure drive in his car . was so safe . and travelled quickly but never broke the speed limit.

yeah, i call bullshit on that, as an example, trip from Riverton to Queenstown airport is about 195km and can be done easily in 2 hrs

the trip from Welcome Bay in tauranga to auckland airport is 199km and took us 3 hrs thanks to dickheads not passing when they could do so safely,

and as a side note, I have it on very good authority that the trip from Riverton to Queenstown has been done considerably quicker than 2 hrs, the devils staircase is awesome in the wee small hrs of the morning, really heightens the senses

[granstar]

Was at rodeo today, riding a bull seems a lot more dangerous than overtaking, WTF has group rides got to do with this, just asking?

[FJRider]

Actually, it may. The Stuff argument is 'ten motorcyclists died because of lane splitting.

That is NOT what the article actually SAID.

They stated Lane splitting should be banned because 10 motorcyclists died on our roads and Lane splitting is dangerous.

Read it carefully for yourself and see.

[husaberg]

Some of the most dangerous overtaking I have seen happens on group rides due to pressure to keep up.
Nice troll Steve.

[Akzle]

, WTF has group rides got to do with this, just asking?

nothing. not one damn thing at all.

[Akzle]

Some of the most dangerous overtaking I have seen happens on group rides due to pressure to keep up.

you're a fuckwit

[pritch]

too tired to realise 2400 isn't a time?

Well the military would normally use 2359 rather than 2400 but that's OK.

[granstar]

nothing. not one damn thing at all.

Thank You :sherlock: um... :chase::violin:

[Jeff Sichoe]

I don't lanesplit as there are too many variables outside of my control, more power to those who do however.

I've never met anyone who had a minor incident while splitting to face anything worse than repair $ and a bruised ego.

Unsafe Overtaking on the open road, on the other hand, is quite a different story. The article fails to make that clear to the non-motorcyclist and conflates an 'annoying' activity (lane splitting) with a seriously dangerous and deadly activity (a fucked up overtake at 100+)

The only time i've almost piked it and caused an accident has been when I make the wrong decision in an overtake. It's only happened twice over the last 20 odd years but both times would have resulted in me not existing anymore. 100% my choice to enter the overtake, I cannot lay the blame at 'group rides' 'pressure to keep up' or even being a young hot head with a need for speed. If I had seen how close things were to complete failure I never would have entered the scenario. The problem is, you're cruising along at 140 past a line of cars, the gap to oncoming traffic is less than you thought it was. You now have two options, pin it and get ahead of the cars, or slow right down and try to merge back in. Neither option is really that great, and there is no reason to put yourself into it if you are making the right calls in the first place.

Eat and drink more than you think you need, especially on long days, and if you've been riding all day the danger point is about 2 or 3pm. Take it easy, take a break and make sure you don't make a wrong call on the most important decision of your life.

[granstar]

In my youth eons ago was passing a sheep truck and trailer, about half way past it the coil leads rattled out of the coils (old Triumph-lol) and the bike faltered, I just made it past the truck before a head on with an oncoming. Didn't allow for that to happen otherwise would have been a safe pass. A tube of silicone for the leads to make them stay and change of grundies and iv'e continued riding with an attitude where I leave plenty of room to pass safely and then some as there is no guarantee an oncoming is sitting at the legal speed.
Modern bikes have the power to fly by safely; one thing iv'e had happen a few times while sitting back waiting for a safe pass behind a truck, the driver pulls to the left (perhaps being curtious?) and sprays you with roadside gravel and dust.

[Daffyd]

and as a side note, I have it on very good authority that the trip from Riverton to Queenstown has been done considerably quicker than 2 hrs, the devils staircase is awesome in the wee small hrs of the morning, really heightens the senses

I once did Queenstown to Invercargill in 90 minutes in a Series 1 Honda Civic. I must confess, though it was not from or to the town centres.

[Daffyd]

That is NOT what the article actually SAID.

They stated Lane splitting should be banned because 10 motorcyclists died on our roads and Lane splitting is dangerous.

Read it carefully for yourself and see.

It is implied.

[FJRider]

It is implied.

Implication's are not statements ... if they didn't say it ... it wasn't said.

Any conclusion reached by readers ... does not make it fact.

Probably was the intention of the writer ... And it worked.

[Hubris]

I just did the Devil's Staircase this week....but was stuck behind hundreds of campervans and caravans. Even if I'd been intending to set a record, wouldn't have been possible this week.


yeah, i call bullshit on that, as an example, trip from Riverton to Queenstown airport is about 195km and can be done easily in 2 hrs

the trip from Welcome Bay in tauranga to auckland airport is 199km and took us 3 hrs thanks to dickheads not passing when they could do so safely,

and as a side note, I have it on very good authority that the trip from Riverton to Queenstown has been done considerably quicker than 2 hrs, the devils staircase is awesome in the wee small hrs of the morning, really heightens the senses

[russd7]

I just did the Devil's Staircase this week....but was stuck behind hundreds of campervans and caravans. Even if I'd been intending to set a record, wouldn't have been possible this week.

the devils staircase is relatively short in the scheme of things and if heading south there is ample opportunity to pass the land maggots. when on bike even the staircase still allows for passing but not so much in the car