LED bulbs now banned

[Cadbury]

I've been putting LED headlight bulbs in my 1990's bikes for a few years, and really value the extra light output at night and the increase in daylight conspicuity. I was in at my local VTNZ getting a WOF in the weekend, and I was advised by the bike expert there (actually a genuinely nice, helpful guy) that as of 1 June this year, LED bulbs are now banned in all vehicles that were designed to use halogen bulbs. Apparently the extra brightness is a problem in reflectors/lenses that are not designed for LED. He also agreed that this was actually a benefit for invisible bikes, but then he also thinks louder (but not stupid loud) pipes are a safety feature.

He was kind enough to pass my bike with a warning for next time, but this now means that I will have to switch out my LEDs before WOF time. Don't tell anyone, but I will be putting them back in afterwards.

[GazzaH]

Your secret's safe with us.

And that nice Mister Google.

Thanks for the head-sup though.

[Voltaire]

I swapped out the H4 on my 80's BMW and found although it was bright the pattern was all over the place.
WOF guy last time said next time it would be a no from him.

My understanding is that they were not approved for retro fit as the reflectors are different.
You can however run additional daytime ones which are good for extra visibility.

[Honest Andy]

Errr, are you muddling LED with HID?
HID headlight bulbs already aren't allowed unless factory fitted, but LED too now? Fucksake, it's a headlight arms race out there, bikes need every advantage!

[AllanB]

Hmmmm - I just fitted LED park lights to my 02 Falcon and my lads 1986 Ford Laser. Nice white light now, the Laser is most impressive for a park light and the feeble yellow piss stain of a glow on the Falcon is now white.

Fuck changing the XR's again - 2 minutes to do the Laser - 20 plus the XR6 and a bloody hand.


Try those 120 and 150 Plus H4 headlights - replaced the XR's a few weeks back and a much improved light.

[Cadbury]

No we are definitely talking LED's being banned for headlights. I don't believe there is any issue with using LED's in any other light e.g. position lights or indicators.

I will continue to use them, just won't be leaving them in at WOF time. The early ones had no shroud on the low beam and so were dazzling to the front, but the later ones I have deliver the same pattern as halogens. Even the VTNZ inspector agreed I had no issue with pattern.

On my VTR1000F, the front lens is completely transparent and the LED bulb has an audible cooling fan, so it is obviously LED. I wonder whether I'll have the same issue on my older bike which has a diffusing lens (not easily seen through) and uses silent fanless LEDs?

[SaferRides]

FFS, they'll ban the Plus halogen bulbs next.

Surely if there's a problem with the beam pattern, it will show up on their beam testing machines at WoF time?

[Laava]

No we are definitely talking LED's being banned for headlights. I don't believe there is any issue with using LED's in any other light e.g. position lights or indicators.

I will continue to use them, just won't be leaving them in at WOF time. The early ones had no shroud on the low beam and so were dazzling to the front, but the later ones I have deliver the same pattern as halogens. Even the VTNZ inspector agreed I had no issue with pattern.

On my VTR1000F, the front lens is completely transparent and the LED bulb has an audible cooling fan, so it is obviously LED. I wonder whether I'll have the same issue on my older bike which has a diffusing lens (not easily seen through) and uses silent fanless LEDs?

So then, only low beam, not high beam?

[Jase H]

Ok, they're talking about fitting something that may not be compatible. Which could have its merits.

What about fitting LEDs as an additional set of lights? They're already designed to work as LED's and don't make the halogen-spec headlights illegal, yet can still provide a good level of brightness.

[Cadbury]

Well having not found the legislation (I have looked unsuccessfully), I can only interpret the words of VTNZ man, that retroffitting LED's into headlight reflectors/lenses that weren't designed for them was now illegal because they were TOO BRIGHT.

I would imagine that this is a night time only issue, so adding auxiliary LED driving lights would be no issue provided they weren't used at night with low beam.

Personally I find muppets that drive round with their fog lights on at night far more irritating.

[Ixion]

Yep. Is new clause. Under S4.1 Lighting in the VIR Manual


13. A headlamp is fitted with a type of light source other than that specified by the vehicle manufacturer or the headlamp manufacturer (eg a headlamp designed for a halogen bulb is fitted with any other type of light source such as an HID or LED bulb, or any other light source such as LED strips or non-OEM angel eyes).

[Blackbird]

FFS, they'll ban the Plus halogen bulbs next.

Surely if there's a problem with the beam pattern, it will show up on their beam testing machines at WoF time?

I've used the Ring Automotive +130 Xenon bulbs on my last 2 bikes and they're a big improvement over stock. In the unlit countryside at night, the shape of my Blackbird headlight with a sharp edge caused some visibility issues in the twisties, even with 100W halogen bulbs. The Street Triple with round headlights gave a much better light spread than either the GSX-S or the Blackbird and could make much better progress in the dark.

[SaferRides]

I've used the Ring Automotive +130 Xenon bulbs on my last 2 bikes and they're a big improvement over stock. In the unlit countryside at night, the shape of my Blackbird headlight with a sharp edge caused some visibility issues in the twisties, even with 100W halogen bulbs. The Street Triple with round headlights gave a much better light spread than either the GSX-S or the Blackbird and could make much better progress in the dark.The R1 headlights don't seem to improve no matter which bulb you fit. But the Plus 120 bulbs seem to get noticed when you come up behind other traffic - some drivers actually pull over to let me pass!

[Blackbird]

The R1 headlights don't seem to improve no matter which bulb you fit. But the Plus 120 bulbs seem to get noticed when you come up behind other traffic - some drivers actually pull over to let me pass!

Yep, I've noticed that too - a safety bonus as well as the ability to make constant progress 😊

[Frodo]

Well having not found the legislation (I have looked unsuccessfully), I can only interpret the words of VTNZ man, that retroffitting LED's into headlight reflectors/lenses that weren't designed for them was now illegal because they were TOO BRIGHT.

I understand it is the beam pattern. Halogens emit light from a very small area probably less than 1mm x 4mm - this is placed at the focal point of the reflector and sends out light roughly parallel and focused. LED's at this stage are much bigger and therefore fall outside the focal point and the light is unfocused.
I was followed home the other night by a KLR that had an LED headlight and driving lights. I presume the headlight was an LED because it was very white and shone a very wide beam. This was unbelievably bright and irritating even in my mirror. This would dazzle oncoming vehicles and increase the risk of an accident.

I had an HID light on my previous bike on the low beam. They take a while to shine after switching on, so are best left on permanently, hence on low rather than high beam. The HID had quite a good pattern and was a lot brighter than stock.

Now I have a +150% 55W bulb in my high beam and a normal one in my low beam, plus have Stonk LED running lights, as I find that the +150% bulbs don't last nearly as long as the standard one.

[Blackbird]

Now I have a +150% 55W bulb in my high beam and a normal one in my low beam, plus have Stonk LED running lights, as I find that the +150% bulbs don't last nearly as long as the standard one.

Just over 2 years with my +130 xenon bulbs. I reckon that's fine with the light improvement I get over standard

[Frodo]

Just over 2 years with my +130 xenon bulbs. I reckon that's fine with the light improvement I get over standard

+130% bulbs might be the best compromise.

[Honest Andy]

So are there any more opinions about the 55 watt +120% / +150% lamps, versus a standard halogen 100watt lamp?

[Taxythingy]

So would that wording make full HID conversions legal or illegal, or up to the inspector’s lack of morning coffee?

[AllanB]

So would that wording make full HID conversions legal or illegal, or up to the inspector’s lack of morning coffee?

HID build conversions sold offshore are not legal. If you change the entire headlamp unit from a approved vehicle onto something else they should be fine.

[SaferRides]

So are there any more opinions about the 55 watt +120% / +150% lamps, versus a standard halogen 100watt lamp?The 100 W bulbs are brighter but they do run hotter. Given that the headlights are plastic and usually expensive, a Plus bulb would be a safer choice.

[Blackbird]

So are there any more opinions about the 55 watt +120% / +150% lamps, versus a standard halogen 100watt lamp?

My Blackbird with 100W halogens used to run fairly hot but the headlight volume was reasonably large to dissipate the heat. I wasn't game to try them in a smaller volume (the Street Triple) so that's when I tried higher output Xenon bulbs of the standard wattage. They were quite sufficient to do the Grand Challenge 1600 km ride with plenty of illumination on unlit back roads.

[Cadbury]

I've had an issue in the past with a 100W bulb melting the socket on the end of the wire.

[Honest Andy]

Given that the headlights are plastic

Haha nope, HQ Holden headlight in the old 'Wing, to replace the stock sealed beam which is, get this, 40watt standard (not halogen). You can see why I changed it!
I've always run a 100 watt lamp in it and wondered if the xenon jobs were better and if so by how much. Always good to reduce load where possible, to make connectors, switches and relays last longer :niceone:


They were quite sufficient to do the Grand Challenge 1600 km ride with plenty of illumination on unlit back roads.
Great recommendation, that's a serious road-test :yes:


I've had an issue in the past with a 100W bulb melting the socket on the end of the wire.
Yeah, connectors are a pain, always semi corroded and usually slightly loose and ready to cause trouble when you least expect it. It's difficult to catch faulty connectors early, usually you only find out after they've had a meltdown. Or after changing something...

[R650R]

I think this is a good idea, people fucking around with shit for their own benefit and screw the effect on other road users.

Some technical stuff, the light emitted by a LED is very directional, quite similar to laser and why its so harsh on the eyes. The light from an equivelant LED source vs halogen doesn't throw the light as far ahead either meaning you need even higher power and more glare for oncoming traffic.
The directional aspect means less side visibility for traffic approaching from side roads too.
Proper LED headlights on some high end cars and trucks seem ok though.

Now if they'd just throw as much scrutiny on front and rear fog lamps (we don't have 70mph plus motorways here so no need) and lightbar infestations.....

My LED daytime RL/spots have their own housing so only half illegal now lol......

https://globalnews.ca/news/4122605/led-street-lights-eyesight-health-effects/

[98tls]

Ok so what about leds in tailights? Is some bloke going to tell me my tailight is to bright:weird:

[AllanB]

Now if they'd just throw as much scrutiny on front and rear fog lamps (we don't have 70mph plus motorways here so no need) and lightbar infestations.....



Fitting some fog lights to the lads car presently. Law is clear on the use of fog lights - they can only be used when duh foggy! Changed to that a few years back mainly due to knobs in 4WD's with 7 inch fog lights using them like DRL

[Taxythingy]

Just tidying up the law to match the existing HID requirements - i.e. only in a headlight that's designed for it. Anything else and the focus is shit.

As the light emitting surface moves further away from the focus point of the headlight, the amount sent in the wrong direction gets rapidly worse. 1-2mm makes a big difference, let alone some of this shit:

H1 bulb vs not-bad LED vs fairly shit LED vs OMGROFLLED.

[Taxythingy]

Just realised that last pair have almost nothing emitting at the focal point. They would probably blind all the possums in trees and rabbits in the grass, yet fail to illuminate the sheep in the middle of the road.

[Laava]

I have a pair of low beam leds in my ute which has projector style low beam lights. They are fantastic! They cut off at exactly the correct place with zero scatter above that line and produce a much better spread of light. I drive at night a lot and have not been flashed at once.
Generally you can tell if your lights are annoying others I have found in the past...of course that is nothing to do with whether I will be allowed to keep them and, as I asked before, is it low beam only or will it be extended to all other lights, high beam, spotties etc?

[Cadbury]

These are what I am using; also a great pattern, the emitters are in the same place as the halogen filaments, and they have the frontal/lower shroud ahead of the low beam emitter the same as a halogen. Just illegal now.:wait:
337299

[Temporary-Kiwi]

I just love my leds, the stock light on my gsx-s is criminally insuficient, so first stuck some plus 130 narva's in, abit better, but still lacking light where you need it on a m/cycle- corner entry illumination", the shape of it's lenses is "designed" in such a way that as you lean into the corner , 80% of the little light you had disappears. this design is in many
roadbike headlights, obviously the designers don't ride a bike at night, my old gsxr1100 g had two round headlights which when fitted with 100 watt bulbs gave very good lighting even when cornering, so I've fitted two 36watt auxbeam bulbs into my gsx-s - it may be slightly more annoying to other roadusers
but I can now see when entering corners, so if I have to remove them for wof, it will only be for as short a period as nessesary

[SaferRides]

These are what I am using; also a great pattern, the emitters are in the same place as the halogen filaments, and they have the frontal/lower shroud ahead of the low beam emitter the same as a halogen. Just illegal now.:wait:
337299Where did you buy these? I might get a set for winter as the R1 headlights aren't the best even with +120 Philips bulbs.

[Cadbury]

Where did you buy these? I might get a set for winter as the R1 headlights aren't the best even with +120 Philips bulbs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Car-LED-Headlight-Replace-Bulbs-Lamp-Hi-Lo-Beam-NIGHTEYE-8000LM-H4-9003-HB2/283174829543?hash=item41ee88fde7:g:Z7gAAOSwhZ5bpe7 w:rk:7:pf:0

[Blackbird]

I just love my leds, the stock light on my gsx-s is criminally insuficient, so first stuck some plus 130 narva's in, abit better, but still lacking light where you need it on a m/cycle- corner entry illumination", the shape of it's lenses is "designed" in such a way that as you lean into the corner , 80% of the little light you had disappears. this design is in many
roadbike headlights, obviously the designers don't ride a bike at night, my old gsxr1100 g had two round headlights which when fitted with 100 watt bulbs gave very good lighting even when cornering, so I've fitted two 36watt auxbeam bulbs into my gsx-s - it may be slightly more annoying to other roadusers
but I can now see when entering corners, so if I have to remove them for wof, it will only be for as short a period as nessesary

Yep, the shape of the headlight is the main factor. Even with twin 100 W bulbs, my Blackbird was poor on twisty roads because of the sharp edge cutoff. Like your GSX-R 1100, my Street Triple had round headlights which gave a much better sideways spread. The OEM bulbs were crap but I replaced them with the same wattage xenon Nightbreakers which were far superior. Comfortably did one of the 1600km/24 hour rides with them. On the GSX-S, I use the Ring brand xenon +130. Adequate for the Coromandel coast road at night but not outstanding. No plans to upgrade though as the bike is being replaced this year.

[Laava]

I put a full set of led bulbs into the std housings on my Ford ranger. When I got a warrant just before xmas, the guys were saying amongst themselves that it had led lights but never mentioned it to me and gave the warrant no comments on the sheet. So must be more discretionary than across the board?

[rastuscat]

I put a full set of led bulbs into the std housings on my Ford ranger. When I got a warrant just before xmas, the guys were saying amongst themselves that it had led lights but never mentioned it to me and gave the warrant no comments on the sheet. So must be more discretionary than across the board?

No, the rules are the rules.

Thing is, some testing officers apply tolerance, and we ride away thinking how cool that is. When in fact that tolerance is condoning law breaking. Just because the testing guy says it's okay doesn't make it legal.

I'm just thinking so many of us know better than the manufacturer who spent a gazillion dollars on R&D to produce our bikes. Then we feck around with them, and grizzle when the rules don't suit us.

Like those knobs who put straight pipes on their tractors. And wear patches saying Loud Pipes Save Lives. Instead of a patch saying Loud Pipes Piss People Off.

[Blackbird]

No, the rules are the rules.

Thing is, some testing officers apply tolerance, and we ride away thinking how cool that is. When in fact that tolerance is condoning law breaking. Just because the testing guy says it's okay doesn't make it legal.

I'm just thinking so many of us know better than the manufacturer who spent a gazillion dollars on R&D to produce our bikes. Then we feck around with them, and grizzle when the rules don't suit us.

Like those knobs who put straight pipes on their tractors. And wear patches saying Loud Pipes Save Lives. Instead of a patch saying Loud Pipes Piss People Off.


In general. I agree with your sentiments. The only aspect I might debate is that manufacturers also factor style, manufacturing cost and convenience into their final design as opposed to necessarily selecting something which provides maximum benefit to the rider. A small example is headlight bulbs (forget headlight design at this stage). My last 3 bikes have been barely adequate for night riding out in the countryside with the OEM bulbs. In each case, I got a significant benefit by switching to a higher quality xenon bulb of the same wattage. A bit more expensive, slightly less life (still over 2 years per bulb) and a much safer ride. Manufacturers aren't necessarily the oracles which might be inferred from your comments.

[rastuscat]

In general. I agree with your sentiments. The only aspect I might debate is that manufacturers also factor style, manufacturing cost and convenience into their final design as opposed to necessarily selecting something which provides maximum benefit to the rider. A small example is headlight bulbs (forget headlight design at this stage). My last 3 bikes have been barely adequate for night riding out in the countryside with the OEM bulbs. In each case, I got a significant benefit by switching to a higher quality xenon bulb of the same wattage. A bit more expensive, slightly less life (still over 2 years per bulb) and a much safer ride. Manufacturers aren't necessarily the oracles which might be inferred from your comments.

We drive that problem by wanting bikes that are lighter, more powerful, more fuel efficient etc, but which cost less. I agree with your view.

[Laava]

No, the rules are the rules.

Thing is, some testing officers apply tolerance, and we ride away thinking how cool that is. When in fact that tolerance is condoning law breaking. Just because the testing guy says it's okay doesn't make it legal.

I'm just thinking so many of us know better than the manufacturer who spent a gazillion dollars on R&D to produce our bikes. Then we feck around with them, and grizzle when the rules don't suit us.

Like those knobs who put straight pipes on their tractors. And wear patches saying Loud Pipes Save Lives. Instead of a patch saying Loud Pipes Piss People Off.
So they should not have given it then? And they could be penalised for doing so?
Anyway, the low beams are awesome, so much better than stock and have a very definitive height cutoff which doesn't seem to offend anyone. I don't feel like a criminal? Kinda hoping to get away with it for a while yet....

[rastuscat]

So they should not have given it then? And they could be penalised for doing so?
Anyway, the low beams are awesome, so much better than stock and have a very definitive height cutoff which doesn't seem to offend anyone. I don't feel like a criminal? Kinda hoping to get away with it for a while yet....

Inspectors are supposed to apply a uniform standard. It's supposed to be objective.

Thing is, a signature is subjective, belonging to the person signing it off.

If it's in the rules that after market LED headlight are a reason for rejection, then that's the rules.

If you get ticketed and go back to the station to object, the inspector will likely say that you must have changed it after he issued the WoF.

If it's illegal, it's illegal. If an eagle eyed cop found it, he could write it for "Vehicle Not Up To WoF Standard". I think its $150, might be $200. Whether you have a current WoF is no defence to that charge.

[Jeeper]

If it's in the rules that after market LED headlight are a reason for rejection, then that's the rules.

Replacement LED headlights are not illegal as such, if they are like for like full replacement units with appropriate ADR or ECE compliance numbers. Simple replacement of LED bulb into a halogen headlamp is illegal. Reason being original housing was not designed for the type of bulb.

I have replacement headlights in my Jeep, with proper ECE compliance certificate, with no problems. These lights are full beams replaced (projector style LED replacement hearlamps).

Sometimes the halogen lamps are used by manufacturer for a good reason. For example, in colder weather with snow LED headlamps don't generate enough heat to melt snow build up - old halogen bulbs do that nicely.

[Laava]

Inspectors are supposed to apply a uniform standard. It's supposed to be objective.

Thing is, a signature is subjective, belonging to the person signing it off.

If it's in the rules that after market LED headlight are a reason for rejection, then that's the rules.

If you get ticketed and go back to the station to object, the inspector will likely say that you must have changed it after he issued the WoF.

If it's illegal, it's illegal. If an eagle eyed cop found it, he could write it for "Vehicle Not Up To WoF Standard". I think its $150, might be $200. Whether you have a current WoF is no defence to that charge.
Yeah, I get that, but I guess I will find out in Dec again if it is an issue...

[biggo]

There are different quality LED bulbs > The $10 Alixpress ones are crap and give just a blur of light , however I have seen some Phillips LED conversion led bulbs that gave a proper pattern with a good cut off but I understand about $150 .
A WOF is a visual inspection and it the bulbs cannot be easily seen and the pattern is good they would likely pass.

[rastuscat]

There are different quality LED bulbs > The $10 Alixpress ones are crap and give just a blur of light , however I have seen some Phillips LED conversion led bulbs that gave a proper pattern with a good cut off but I understand about $150 .
A WOF is a visual inspection and it the bulbs cannot be easily seen and the pattern is good they would likely pass.

It's the red headlight alignment machine that got me once. I had a bike that was imported from the USA, and it hadn't been converted to NZ standard.

Low beam went the wrong way.

I was pleased to find out, to be fair. That's why I like inspections, it's a way to learn about things you can improve.

[SaferRides]

It seems unfortunate that something that can help you see better at night is deemed illegal.

I'd never get LED bulbs through a WoF on the R1 because you can see the back of the bulbs when you're sitting on the bike. But then they're really quick to change unlike my last bike.

[Swoop]

After having multiple incandescent bulbs failing within a short space of time - apparently there are differing bulb types and some are suited for bikes) I'm now looking at LED bulbs since they are less subject to failure under vibration.
Any good NZ based suppliers out there?

[SaferRides]

After having multiple incandescent bulbs failing within a short space of time - apparently there are differing bulb types and some are suited for bikes) I'm now looking at LED bulbs since they are less subject to failure under vibration.
Any good NZ based suppliers out there?You can get bulbs designed to cope with higher levels of vibration. But unless you have an older bike or a V-twin, normal bulbs will do the job.

Have you checked the charging voltage?

[Swoop]

You can get bulbs designed to cope with higher levels of vibration. But unless you have an older bike or a V-twin, normal bulbs will do the job.

Have you checked the charging voltage?

I'm hoping there isn't a short, but after replacing the bulb again recently this latest one is lasting OK.
Most bikes suffer more vibration at the back end than a car has to cope with, so slightly different approaches in design I believe.

[rastuscat]

It seems unfortunate that something that can help you see better at night is deemed illegal.

I'd never get LED bulbs through a WoF on the R1 because you can see the back of the bulbs when you're sitting on the bike. But then they're really quick to change unlike my last bike.

Laws usually only react to the stupidity of those who can't make balanced decisions for themselves. Likely some plonker fitted a Night Sun to their bike, prompting a legislative backlash.

[Laava]

Laws usually only react to the stupidity of those who can't make balanced decisions for themselves. Likely some plonker fitted a Night Sun to their bike, prompting a legislative backlash.
Wow next thing they'll be banning straight pipes on harleys and smoking in cars...