The 1080 debate

[mada]

the true reason DoC are dropping 1080 is to cover up the fact that Moa still exist.

1080 is killing the Moa. DoC don't want hunters to know about the Moa and are deliberately trying to kill them.

#ban1080

[mada]

Why are they doing aerial drops on areas that could easily be done on foot?

Trying to eradicate the moa bro.

[Katman]

Trying to eradicate the moa bro.

How old are you?

[husaberg]

David Speirs said the animals escaped onto pasture in the drop zone.

What exactly makes pasture 'inaccessible' to humans?


SO now the Katman requirement is for every part of every area to be totally inaccessible to deem an area inaccessible.
you can walk arround on top of many mountains but can you climb up to the top of them.
Your source said the animals had had 1080 dropped into their paddock and had been poisoned from it and they had only been offered 8 bales of silage.
funny how the owners of the animal don't confirm any part of your sources story
Ever seen an animal die of eating tutu, i doubt you even know what it is or what it does. the owner consented to a drop on his land and it appears they were not poisioned from this but it it appears they were on DOC land prior to them dying.

[Katman]

Your source said the animals had had 1080 dropped into their paddock

Where did I ever say that?

[Graystone]

the true reason DoC are dropping 1080 is to cover up the fact that Moa still exist.

1080 is killing the Moa. DoC don't want hunters to know about the Moa and are deliberately trying to kill them.

#ban1080

Clearly in league with the Haast's Eagles as well, which can do the 1080 drops into inaccessible regions with ease...

[Woodman]

So katman what do you suggest we do right now to save our native species?

[Katman]

So katman what do you suggest we do right now to save our native species?

Start thinking outside the box.

[Woodman]

Start thinking outside the box.

Keep 1080 drops going or stop them until a "out of the box solution" is found?

[Katman]

Keep 1080 drops going or stop them until a "out of the box solution" is found?

I would suggest restricting aerial drops to areas that are truly inaccessible until a humane method of eradication is found and promote opportunities for business ventures in the fur and meat trade that can be supplied from areas that are accessible.

[Woodman]

I would suggest restricting aerial drops to areas that are truly inaccessible until a humane method of eradication is found and promote opportunities for business ventures in the fur and meat trade that can be supplied from areas that are accessible.

So you want to promote pests in the bush?

[Katman]

So you want to promote pests in the bush?

No, I want to see ideas promoted that make it desirable for people to help in eradicating pests without the use of inhumane poisons.

I thought I'd already made myself fairly clear on that.

[husaberg]

I would suggest restricting aerial drops to areas that are truly inaccessible until a humane method of eradication is found and promote opportunities for business ventures in the fur and meat trade that can be supplied from areas that are accessible.


No, I want to see ideas promoted that make it desirable for people to help in eradicating pests without the use of inhumane poisons.
I thought I'd already made myself fairly clear on that.


So what were these various alternatives to our current use of 1080 you claimed we already had earlier, were you just making them up?
Is it alright to use inhumane traps.

I'm all for protecting native species but is choosing the most inhumane method, simply because it's the cheapest option, really the way an advanced society should deal with an issue?

Cool then you will offer some viable alternatives it should be fun especially considering how little you know about 1080.

There are viable alternatives.Yes, they might be more expensive - but that was the whole point behind post #1.

[Drew]

By christ you start a lot of shit without any facts or info to back it up.

[Drew]

Oh, YAY. I'm out of the sin bin it seems.

[Grumph]

Oh, YAY. I'm out of the sin bin it seems.

Not with me - yet. Clear your bloody inbox.

[FJRider]

Of course they talk. That it isn't english shouldn't matter. Try keep your linguistic prejudice in check eh.

katboys linguistic abilities (or lack thereof) is what I tried to highlight. His limited vocabulary doesn't help him much ... as he repeats himself a lot. Suck my cock is a common phrase for him. It certainly shows his sexual leanings and preferences ...

[FJRider]

No, I want to see ideas promoted that make it desirable for people to help in eradicating pests without the use of inhumane poisons.

You might think the Green Party might have done that ... but their only comment on the subject is ... We'll continue to use 1080 until a better (cost effective) alternate method is found.

If they aren't that fussed about it ... why should you be ... ??

I'm sure they'll love to hear your ideas ...

[Honest Andy]

You might think the Green Party might have done that ... but their only comment on the subject is ... We'll continue to use 1080 until a better (cost effective) alternate method is found.

If they aren't that fussed about it ... why should you be ... ??

I'm sure they'll love to hear your ideas ...

not sure if their bin is big enough...

[Katman]

Suck my cock is a common phrase for him.

Dude, do you even have any idea how long it's been since I've said that on here?

So just who's got the fixation?

[husaberg]

Dude, do you even have any idea how long it's been since I've said that on here?

So just who's got the fixation?
You probably said it 200 times or more the only reason you likely stopped is you realised it sounded like it does.....

[mada]

Here we have a classic example as to why Hunter's should not be given free reign to control pests in NZ....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/107461046/many-importers-wont-provide-doc-with-ammunition-for-cull-tahr-foundation-says

Yeah lets refuse to supply DOC with ammunition to reduce the impact of a pest, because we might not get as much hunting in and make as much money.

And all those pricks accuse DOC of having some conflict of interest from making profits off 1080

:brick::brick::brick::brick:

[Woodman]

And like the anti 1080 loons they will say that they are coservationists. :facepalm:

[Katman]

And like the anti 1080 loons they will say that they are coservationists. :facepalm:


Oh no, won't someone please think of the poor plants.

[husaberg]

Here we have a classic example as to why Hunter's should not be given free reign to control pests in NZ....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/107461046/many-importers-wont-provide-doc-with-ammunition-for-cull-tahr-foundation-says

Yeah lets refuse to supply DOC with ammunition to reduce the impact of a pest, because we might not get as much hunting in and make as much money.

And all those pricks accuse DOC of having some conflict of interest from making profits off 1080

:brick::brick::brick::brick:

All that happens is the ammo is brought from overseas instead.
Did you see the campaign against Richie McCaw even though they company he works for dont do 1080 opperations it seems facts dont stop the protesters.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12125332

[TheDemonLord]

Here we have a classic example as to why Hunter's should not be given free reign to control pests in NZ....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/107461046/many-importers-wont-provide-doc-with-ammunition-for-cull-tahr-foundation-says

Yeah lets refuse to supply DOC with ammunition to reduce the impact of a pest, because we might not get as much hunting in and make as much money.

And all those pricks accuse DOC of having some conflict of interest from making profits off 1080

:brick::brick::brick::brick:

100,000 rounds, to kill an estimated 20,000 animals...

Are DOC using Full Autos for hunting?

Also - if only we had some form of Military, that might have ammunition...

[Woodman]

All that happens is the ammo is brought from overseas instead.
Did you see the campaign against Richie McCaw even though they company he works for dont do 1080 opperations it seems facts dont stop the protesters.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12125332

The anti 1080ers have never let facts get in the way of a good graffiti campaign.

[Woodman]

Oh no, won't someone please think of the poor plants.

Its a delicate ecosystem.

[husaberg]

The anti 1080ers have never let facts get in the way of a good graffiti campaign.
If only they could find a way to pin it on the jews as well imagine how much extra conspiracy theorist support they could get for the cause.

[jafagsx250]

Here we have a classic example as to why Hunter's should not be given free reign to control pests in NZ....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/107461046/many-importers-wont-provide-doc-with-ammunition-for-cull-tahr-foundation-says

Yeah lets refuse to supply DOC with ammunition to reduce the impact of a pest, because we might not get as much hunting in and make as much money.

And all those pricks accuse DOC of having some conflict of interest from making profits off 1080

:brick::brick::brick::brick:

That's to stop the cull until proper science can be conducted. A confidence interval of 95 percent is shocking science. A number in the middle isn't good policy.

They're not a pest. They're a resource.

We got tahr down to an estimated 2500 tahr. It's not like we can't do it again sadly. So any delay won't make too much difference.

1080 is another kettle of fish.


100,000 rounds, to kill an estimated 20,000 animals...

Are DOC using Full Autos for hunting?

Also - if only we had some form of Military, that might have ammunition...

Military ammunition is unethical for game hunting or culling. Just pokes holes in them.

If you think they'll stop at tahr you're mistaken. Deer and Chamois will be next.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

If you think they'll stop at tahr you're mistaken. Deer and Chamois will be next.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

Good then we can start on the rabbits, Trout and Salmon and then all the introduced Ducks.
I am pretty sure the pukekos are not that native either

[jafagsx250]

Good then we can start on the rabbits, Trout and Salmon and then all the introduced Ducks.
I am pretty sure the pukekos are not that native either

Good luck with that. Mackenzie basin farmers have spent a huge amount of money and they've never gotten on top of the problem. The bets chance we had water destroyed by stupid farmer's who didn't release the virus in a smart manner.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

[FJRider]

The anti 1080ers have never let facts get in the way of a good graffiti campaign.

It's not even a good graffiti campaign ... ;)

[TheDemonLord]

Military ammunition is unethical for game hunting or culling. Just pokes holes in them.

If you think they'll stop at tahr you're mistaken. Deer and Chamois will be next.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

I had an interesting read about hunting with FMJ thanks to that comment - lots of people espousing the above sentiment, or simply stating it's illegal in their state, there were also those who said it's fine, so long as you are precise with your shots - but perhaps the best observation (Which really was the reason for me replying) was someone pointing out that in over a century of Wars fought with FMJ, no one ever accused the rounds as being "Less Lethal"...

[FJRider]

I had an interesting read about hunting with FMJ thanks to that comment - lots of people espousing the above sentiment, or simply stating it's illegal in their state, there were also those who said it's fine, so long as you are precise with your shots - but perhaps the best observation (Which really was the reason for me replying) was someone pointing out that in over a century of Wars fought with FMJ, no one ever accused the rounds as being "Less Lethal"...

Tear-gas will be banned from Police use soon as it will be deemed inhumane on the protesters ... ;)

[jafagsx250]

I had an interesting read about hunting with FMJ thanks to that comment - lots of people espousing the above sentiment, or simply stating it's illegal in their state, there were also those who said it's fine, so long as you are precise with your shots - but perhaps the best observation (Which really was the reason for me replying) was someone pointing out that in over a century of Wars fought with FMJ, no one ever accused the rounds as being "Less Lethal"...

Depends on the type of fmj. Open tip match is better out of the types. But!

If doc are saying that it's humane treatment of animals then an expanding projectile is needed. Too easy to use the wrong type of bullet and too easy to gut shot from a helicopter.

True. But we're concerned about animals. Humans you're at war with it doesn't matter how long it takes til they kick it as long as they eventually do.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

[Katman]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/govt-blocking-breakthrough-technology-that-could-make-new-zealand-predator-free.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1u6AhLxmWIEKhKDTxGnqxmozbKl1FqELlz_Wr4p s-oPbdqNyVMN6GvvKE

[husaberg]

How so?
If the pests are destined for extermination anyway I fail to see why anyone would object to them being genetically sterilised.
Slow learner aye.

We do a heck of a lot of research but you need to consider that the transport mechanism is a Genetically Engineered product.
Also the same lunatic fringe plus others is against making animal sterile with genetic engineering.
.
The aussies aren't to happy about something with potential to wipe out all the marsupials either.
Must be another Katman conspiracy you have uncovered, that everyone else who actually knows anything about pest control or 1080 has known about for 20 odd years.

Gene tech could sort it out with a bit more research.
Of course, the same dickheads who are against 1080 are also against its most obvious alternative :brick:
(that should be good for another ten pages...)

Yip there was some very promisng research in turning of their reproductive cycle in a way that is only relevant to marsupials, not to most other mammals.
https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/42005/biocontrol_of_possums.pdf
The Aussies were a bit concerned about it but the loonies would have utter conniptions.
the problem is if it was delivered say by a bait station you could have killed them while they were there.
but last i heard they were hoping to use a flee or a parasite specific to possums to transmit it.
A similar form of idea could be used for mustelids such as stoats and weasels ferrets as there is a unique feature where they can delay and postpone a pregnancy gestation in times of feed shortages.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7014860
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryonic_diapause
if you could turn that on you could cut down their reproduction ability.

They are looking into the genetic approach, (which will also upset the hunters/anti1080 loons) and in a lot of areas e.g. Kahurangi the 1080 is dropped every three years and in between drops the areas are trapped and monitored.

The 1080 "debate" is no debate as far as I am concerned.
There are currently no viable alternatives for mammalian pest control in most of our backcountry. I volunteer doing pest control in the Waitakeres and I know that the density of bait stations and access lines required makes effective hand baiting/trapping i
However going forward we need alternatives. 1080 is only ever going to be a temporary damage-limitation measure. Perhaps the most promising alternative is a gene drive-based, sterile possum/stoat release. Unfortunately this technology is many years off and in the current NZ legal environment, the release of GMO animals is not likely to be approved. It would be good to see more investment in 1080 alternatives but in the meantime 1080 drops need to continue or there will be nothing left to protect.
There is a technical paper from the royal society on potential for gene drive technology on pest control in NZ which may be of interest.
https://royalsociety.org.nz/assets/Uploads/Gene-editing-in-pest-control-technical-paper.pdf


Then we have the false accounts of deaths you never owned up to posting.

In the last case I read about, a farmer was offered 8 bales of silage for the loss of 8 two year old heifers. Heifers that the farmer estimated to be worth $2000 each.
But the fact that stock appear to be able to wander onto certain areas doesn't suggest that they're 'inaccessible' by any stretch of the imagination.

Go on a show the account then.
I will give you a hint farmers are generally offered silage as compensation to exclude stock from areas to carry out operations.
Not to cover the death of animals.
You opinion regarding what or what isn’t accessible is irrelevant you don’t get a choice in the mater you don’t have any experience as you don’t even really contribute much other than your ill considered ill thought out opinion.
Personally i are still waiting for your viable alternatives you claimed existed earlier on for these inaccessible areas

Or maybe the aerial drops aren't carried out with quite the degree of precision that you imagine they are.

Well lets see i know first hand they are and its been verified hundreds of times plus the information is checked after each drop and supposed incident
Yet in nearly all cases it turns out the animals were not where they were meant to be.
any mistake in application made is well recorded as all the drops are tracked.
I will put my long standing first hand information against your opinion especially considering you have shown yourself to be lacking in any understanding of its use and effects thus far.

Fuck you talk some shit.

No one has ever said the areas were inaccessible to "animals" thats the whole point in doing the vector controls you dullard
Where is this account where a farmer who lost stock was offered a pitiful amount of silage as compensation for his loss of 10 heifers.
Go on show it to us all.
Id would be interested to see this third or forth hand information especially if its backed by a toxicology report stating the cause of death

Their own words

Owners of a dry stock property near Te Kuiti, Paula and Mark Stone, said they were approached by MPI to agree to the 1080 drop on their property - although MPI said it was DOC who approached the farmers - which they did after an official visited them for a meeting.
The couple confirmed that DOC had contacted them two weeks prior to the drop to tell them to move cattle which they did.
The farmers whose cows might have been killed by 1080 says it's possible the animals escaped into the area where the poison was dropped.
Mrs Stone said the cattle had been let into the bush area in the past where the drop occurred.
"By the bush area there's a track and there's open paddocks in that area and so we do allow them in there, but all winter that gate was secured."
While she said it was not certain the animals had escaped into the operation area, it was a possibility and when DOC visited their property to inspect the dead cattle, they walked the boundary of the paddock and found the fence that had been secured had been damaged.
"But it is likely that they've gone into that area, yes it is very likely."
she confirmed no baits had been found in the actual paddock where the cattle died.
DOC Operations Director David Speirs said staff had been to the site and all the evidence pointed to the animals escaping on to pasture in the drop zone.
"The gate in question was secured to a post by a piece of wire around its middle, and it's rotated around that piece of wire. The gate wasn't well secured at all."
No bait was found in the paddock where the cows were found dead, he said.
A 500kg animal would have to eat 22 or 23 baits to get a toxic dose, but it wasn't impossible a cow would eat that much. The drop rate is 300 baits per hectare.
GPS-based data showing where the helicopter flew and the follow-up on the ground confirmed the baits were dropped where they were supposed to go.
Third parties make use of these kind of incidents to fuel opposition to 1080, he said.
"The tragedy of this is ... it distracts from the real message, which is that we're trying to save New Zealand's biodiversity.
"We will lose the battle if we don't use tools like 1080.

Then we have one of you openings posts


There are viable alternatives.
Yes, they might be more expensive - but that was the whole point behind post #1.
(And by the way, I'd feed 1080 to you in a heartbeat).
I asked you for these viable option you never came up with a single one
So this is just another look at me i am katman and i will post stuff about subjects i know nothing about thread

[sugilite]

Slow learner aye.

I asked you for these viable option you never came up with a single one
So this is just another look at me i am katman and i will post stuff about subjects i know nothing about thread

As mentioned in another post, While I lived in Waitahora literally in the middle of A Toatara forest, possums were initially prolific to say the least. The the Tararua council started putting these pellets down. They explained to me that only pesty critters that had the jaw strength could get through the outer layer and bite into the cyanide, then pow. So birds were unaffected. The Possum population dropped to the point where I stopped hearing or seeing them at all. Much to the disappointment of my staffie lol

I cannot remember the name of it, and a brief search looking up google found the link below...but the pellets look wrong, too small, and in Waitahora the rat population took a noticeable dive too - so I'm not sure it is the same as what the Tararua council use, but I will post the link anyways. The council did mention it was more expensive than 1080. However, the bird population soared soon after they started on it - so well worth the rate payers expense in my opinion.
https://www.connovation.co.nz/feratox-pellets

So there is alternatives, and that one is way better than 1080, as when I lived in Karamea, when they dropped the 1080, the forest completely fell silent - it was both disconcerting and very upsetting.

[husaberg]

As mentioned in another post, While I lived in Waitahora literally in the middle of A Toatara forest, possums were initially prolific to say the least. The the Tararua council started putting these pellets down. They explained to me that only pesty critters that had the jaw strength could get through the outer layer and bite into the cyanide, then pow. So birds were unaffected. The Possum population dropped to the point where I stopped hearing or seeing them at all. Much to the disappointment of my staffie lol

I cannot remember the name of it, and a brief search looking up google found the link below...but the pellets look wrong, too small, and in Waitahora the rat population took a noticeable dive too - so I'm not sure it is the same as what the Tararua council use, but I will post the link anyways. The council did mention it was more expensive than 1080. However, the bird population soared soon after they started on it - so well worth the rate payers expense in my opinion.
https://www.connovation.co.nz/feratox-pellets

So there is alternatives, and that one is way better than 1080, as when I lived in Karamea, when they dropped the 1080, the forest completely fell silent - it was both disconcerting and very upsetting.

Karamea also has the one of the highest concentrations of TB infection in NZ, if not the highest.
The forests in Karamea were alive and loud with Tui and bellbird last time i was there. Which was about 9 months ago.
People think it causes a silent forest but fail to actually realize the drops occur over winter when the Forrest is quiet anyway.
yes it can kill birds but, the populations bounce back stronger and faster then the possums do.
Some people say Farming is not important but the only reason farming Karamea still exists is Farming it would have been abandoned in the 1930's without it.
Its the only reason it has a road and the only reason it has power. Its the sole reason it ever existed it all.
Its also one of the most beautiful places in the world.
Feratox you remember was in the news as the inventor of it was the one who made the threats about 1080 that cost 100's of millions of dollars.
You can still get a sub lethal dose and it accumulates in the food chains
Also its kill rate is lower as even though its encapsulated it still has a smell. Rats also cause issues as they eat the jelly lure and just leave the pallets.
Faratox has its place as do other poisons and traps but you can only use it in areas that are accessable. It is illegal to use it other than hand lay it.

[sugilite]

Yeah, as mentioned I do not think that was the exact stuff, because the pellets look wrong and they don't talk about the jaw strength needed to get to cyanide on the webpage. And the stuff the Tararua council used definitely dropped the rat population too. I know because I had a cat that would kill rats and leave them for me on the lawn laid out in a neat row. When they dropped that stuff, the rats vanished (stoats too), just before they would drop it again (bi annual) the rats would start appearing dead on the lawn again, then pow gone after another drop. They never used the jelly lure with it either, which makes me think it was another product. They did say it was pricey. Wish I could remember what it was.

I lived inside the forest at Karamea - trust me the silence is pretty much instant and very real after a 1080 drop. (I had and still have a thing about living in forests just in case you are wondering. I love living in nature, around other humans, not so much...

I think you will find it was more the timber and flax farming that was the main income for the area in the early days (I sat down and read the local history books there), they barged a lot off via the sea, but then a major earthquake fucked the harbor. They then built the road, that was redirected over the bluff when being built - and a lot of that land just happened to be owned by a prominent local politician, go figure huh! Yes farming is the principle business there now and is very important to the area. If they used the same stuff they did in Tararua, it would work for sure in Karamea.


Karamea also has the one of the highest concentrations of TB infection in NZ, if not the highest.
The forests in Karamea were alive and loud with Tui and bellbird last time i was there. Which was about 9 months ago.
People think it causes a silent forest but fail to actually realize the drops occur over winter when the Forrest is quiet anyway.
yes it can kill birds but, the populations bounce back stronger and faster then the possums do.
Some people say Farming is not important but the only reason farming Karamea still exists is Farming it would have been abandoned in the 1930's without it.
Its the only reason it has a road and the only reason it has power. Its the sole reason it ever existed it all.
Its also one of the most beautiful places in the world.
Feratox you remember was in the news as the inventor of it was the one who made the threats about 1080 that cost 100's of millions of dollars.
You can still get a sub lethal dose and it accumulates in the food chains
Also its kill rate is lower as even though its encapsulated it still has a smell. Rats also cause issues as they eat the jelly lure and just leave the pallets.
Faratox has its place as do other poisons and traps but you can only use it in areas that are accessable. It is illegal to use it other than hand lay it.

[husaberg]

Yeah, as mentioned I do not think that was the exact stuff, because the pellets look wrong and they don't talk about the jaw strength needed to get to cyanide on the webpage. And the stuff the Tararua council used definitely dropped the rat population too. I know because I had a cat that would kill rats and leave them for me on the lawn laid out in a neat row. When they dropped that stuff, the rats vanished (stoats too), just before they would drop it again (bi annual) the rats would start appearing dead on the lawn again, then pow gone after another drop. They never used the jelly lure with it either, which makes me think it was another product. They did say it was pricey. Wish I could remember what it was.

I lived inside the forest at Karamea - trust me the silence is pretty much instant and very real after a 1080 drop. (I had and still have a thing about living in forests just in case you are wondering. I love living in nature, around other humans, not so much...

I think you will find it was more the timber and flax farming that was the main income for the area in the early days (I sat down and read the local history books there), they barged a lot off via the sea, but then a major earthquake fucked the harbor. They then built the road, that was redirected over the bluff when being built - and a lot of that land just happened to be owned by a prominent local politician, go figure huh! Yes farming is the principle business there now and is very important to the area. If they used the same stuff they did in Tararua, it would work for sure in Karamea.

It will be Ferraox i would say as it patented.
Its the only encapsulated cyanide product i have ever seen. they come in different colours and sizes and lures. some are like peanut butter others like jam
As i said cyanide it cant be spread aerially so it is not an option for Karamea other than Fringe areas, Which are via ground anyway.
I have been possum monitoring in Buller pre and post drops, Landcare have also done extensive bird song monitoring pre and post drops all over NZ the data is freely available and easily found.
While i cant comment on your account it doesnt fit my own experience or any of the studies.
Timber and flax was the for forerunner to all farming on the West Coast. Not just Karamea.
But without Farming in Karamea the road would never have been pushed through from the bridle track it was. It would have been abandoned and ceased to exist much little areas up the Whanganui.
Pretty sure it was about the late 1960s before it weven got mains electricty, Still even now most cowsheds still have an old lister still inor near the shed.
Karamea as i have said is a TB hotspot, ie worst of the West Coast which is the worst of NZ.Put this into perspective The West Coast only has 400 odd Dairy herds about 200,000 cattle yet has more than 1/2 of Nz's TB.
Tarura has likely never had TB in its wildlife.
Conversely the first place TB was shown to be transmitted from Possums to Cattle was just the other side of the bluffs from Karamea at Seddonville.
TB was nearly under control on the west coast in the early 80's until the Pest boards were dissolved and Vector controls were slackened, i for one dont want to go through that heart ache again of having peoples entire herd and net worth taken in an instant. Just to satisfy a winging group of non residents of the coast or day trip hunters who like Katman make false statements about stuff they dont even understand.
The West Coast covers an area equivalent from Hamilton to wellington in length it has a popultaion under 30,000 people there is not the time or the money or the people to do the ground control needed to cover this area to either protect the native flora and fauna or eradicate TB from the wildlife.

[sugilite]

I'm not going top disagree with much of that, though I will say I will believe my own experience over recordings made by others. My right.

The other thing I will say is yes, if course I'm very aware of the vast areas of forest the West Coast represents, amen for that. But until they work out a way to make money out of possums, the problem is never going to go away. They have been dropping 1080 for decades, bur either do not ever do it enough to truly eradicate the problem, or simply it is incapable to doing the job.
Personally I would love to see the Government spend serious money and create task forces on the West Coast (much needed employment) and other affected areas NZ Wide to hand deliver the cyanide to vast tracts of navigable land, and drop 1080 on the impossible to navigate areas. But like that would ever happen because politicians are self serving shit heads that on the whole do not give a toss about issues outside their own personal concerns. that by and large goes for both sides of the political divide.

[Paul in NZ]

I'm not going top disagree with much of that, though I will say I will believe my own experience over recordings made by others. My right.

The other thing I will say is yes, if course I'm very aware of the vast areas of forest the West Coast represents, amen for that. But until they work out a way to make money out of possums, the problem is never going to go away. They have been dropping 1080 for decades, bur either do not ever do it enough to truly eradicate the problem, or simply it is incapable to doing the job.
Personally I would love to see the Government spend serious money and create task forces on the West Coast (much needed employment) and other affected areas NZ Wide to hand deliver the cyanide to vast tracts of navigable land, and drop 1080 on the impossible to navigate areas. But like that would ever happen because politicians are self serving shit heads that on the whole do not give a toss about issues outside their own personal concerns. that by and large goes for both sides of the political divide.

I hear what you are saying but employing people to hand bait rapidly turns into farming. They never quite get them all so that they have to come back next year...

The other thing is - vast (and I mean vast) areas of the west coast are effectively unwalkable. I spent a week deer stalking in the headwaters of the Wilkinson River https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz30666/Wilkinson-River/


Its days to walk in and don't let the fancy dotted line on the map fool you. Going any direction even on the track is unpredictable and a major effort. There are areas that can be hand baited (we shared the Wilkinson Hut with a trapper) but vast areas where just walking 100m is an effort. Its just not possible and the H&S aspects make me shudder...

[TheDemonLord]

I hear what you are saying but employing people to hand bait rapidly turns into farming. They never quite get them all so that they have to come back next year...

The other thing is - vast (and I mean vast) areas of the west coast are effectively unwalkable. I spent a week deer stalking in the headwaters of the Wilkinson River https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz30666/Wilkinson-River/


Its days to walk in and don't let the fancy dotted line on the map fool you. Going any direction even on the track is unpredictable and a major effort. There are areas that can be hand baited (we shared the Wilkinson Hut with a trapper) but vast areas where just walking 100m is an effort. Its just not possible and the H&S aspects make me shudder...

Would such areas be where aeriel (low-level helicopter) drops would be applicable? Or would the canopy mess with the drop?

(Cost not being a factor)

[Paul in NZ]

Would such areas be where aeriel (low-level helicopter) drops would be applicable? Or would the canopy mess with the drop?

(Cost not being a factor)

Not now - the possums and climate change have killed off all the big Ratas… Very hard to stop baits getting into waterways as its very steep..

[sugilite]

I hear what you are saying but employing people to hand bait rapidly turns into farming. They never quite get them all so that they have to come back next year...

The other thing is - vast (and I mean vast) areas of the west coast are effectively unwalkable. I spent a week deer stalking in the headwaters of the Wilkinson River https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz30666/Wilkinson-River/


Yep, hence my walk in where you can, lay bait, drop 1080 on the rest, at least the walk in's will ensure a lot more survives. And yes, agree next year would be required as well, possibly for a fair few years. But hell, imagine the change! The totara forest I lived in took off like you would not believe when they did the bait thing every year!


Not now - the possums and climate change have killed off all the big Ratas… Very hard to stop baits getting into waterways as its very steep..
Good news, there are areas of Karamea where big Ratas exist still. Right next door to my old property, had 60 very large ancient ones!