"Kiwi jihadi" feels "stabbed in the back"...

[OddDuck]

Maybe the problem is twofold:

1) the means

2) the hate

take either of them away and the problem collapses.

The means: yeah, not easy. If it isn't guns, it's bombs, if it isn't bombs, it's trucks driven into a crowd. A start would be to criminalise high capacity magazines, use, sale, possession... say anything over 7 rounds? But if they're determined enough they'll find a way. Doesn't have to be guns.

The hate: well, that's the internet. Mostly. It's just too easy to find people reinforcing your own point of view on the Net, whatever that POV is.

Maybe a general solution is sociability. By what I've heard so far, he was a loner, no family, no apparent friends, nobody to keep him connected to humanity. Same story with most of the other mass murder rampage crazies, here (David Gray) and overseas. We drive cars, we watch TV, we lock ourselves away in suburbia. Loneliness is a modern plague. Maybe we need times of day that the TV and the Internet is just off, you have to get away from the screen and do something, and in the course of doing that something the chances of bumping into somebody else goes up from zero to possible.

[TheDemonLord]

you are aware that you can just mail order things and they can come thru the post unchecked? Like pistols and knives etc? Gun parts would be even easier. Our RD postie delivered a pistol to a guy near the Kauri Fonterra plant and then he got busted with it in a seperate offence.

Depends on the item.

Buffer Tube + Buffer Tube spring: Delivered, with a note to say cleared by Customs
Several 5 Rd mags: Also, Delivered with a note to say cleared by Customs
Carbine length Buffer tube: Got letter from the Police to check my Category of licence - sent them an email showing the A-Cat buttstock and my Licence, they then released the item to me.

So, 3 items, all 3 were checked, 1 required additional actions on my part.

[TheDemonLord]

I took you off ignore to say this.
When do you intend to go back to pushing the same anti islamic crap you were peddling on here a few months ago.
You remember it is the exact same shit this killer was also peddling.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/186715-quot-Kiwi-jihadi-quot-feels-quot-stabbed-in-the-back-quot?p=1131127928#post1131127928
Its the same recepie but just a different flavour as tripe Oldie peddles and as did Akzle before him.
Does it give you a warm glow knowing you did your part to reinforce these attitudes?
In some ways it worse than oldie and Akzle as you i thought had a modicum of common sense.

I'm still critical of Islam. In particular the certain sects that take a rather literal interpretation of the Qu'ran.
There are still parts of the Qu'ran which I believe be antithetical to Western Democracy.

Neither of which means I want to see Innocent people gunned down like Fish in a Barrel.

But seeing as you have trouble understanding - I'll paint you a picture of Tolerance.

If you are Muslim - and you want to observe your faith - Great, more power to you.
I'll not offer to buy you a Beer or a side of Pork Scratchings, I'll not offer you anything to eat between the hours of sunrise and sunset from the 5th of May to the 4th of June, if you come to my house - I'll make sure you have a quite room for you when you need to Pray.

Sounds fine right?

In return, I expect you not to try and establish Sharia law, I expect you to have equal tolerance for the Gay Community, I expect you not to be Anti-Semitic, I expect you to not kill relatives over a matter of 'Honor' or attack them with Acid, I expect you to co-operate with the Law and not try and deal with things 'in community', I expect you to adhere to the most basic standards of Consent and I expect you to not promote anything to do with the Extremist sects.

As far as I'm concerned - that's a pretty low standard on both sides - if we can all do that, then we can live peacefully together.

[jasonu]

Well I don't know shit about guns but it would seem to me that big magazines are a really bad idea in the civilian arena. As soon as he was caught reloading he was off like the
five foot chickenshit arsehole with a microscopic dick that he really was.

As you said you don't know much about guns.
I do and I have several including an AR15. I can drop an empty mag, slap in another and be shooting again in a couple of seconds. As long as the shooter was well practiced in reloading, had plenty of loaded mags on him AND HAD THE ONLY GUN IN THE BUILDING, he could have done just as much damage with a sack of 10 round mags.

[OddDuck]

As you said you don't know much about guns.
I do and I have several including an AR15. I can drop an empty mag, slap in another and be shooting again in a couple of seconds. As long as the shooter was well practiced in reloading, had plenty of loaded mags on him AND HAD THE ONLY GUN IN THE BUILDING, he could have done just as much damage with a sack of 10 round mags.

Well maybe that's the answer right there. Limit mag capacity and ban interchangeable mags - all civilian weapons to be reloaded one round at a time, i.e. permanently fixed mags OK, drop out slap in mags not.

As to 'had the only gun in the building', how well has that worked in the USA?

JasonU - that avatar - I agree with an earlier poster, it was in bad taste earlier and now it's just rude.

[sidecar bob]

As you said you don't know much about guns.
I do and I have several including an AR15. I can drop an empty mag, slap in another and be shooting again in a couple of seconds. As long as the shooter was well practiced in reloading, had plenty of loaded mags on him AND HAD THE ONLY GUN IN THE BUILDING, he could have done just as much damage with a sack of 10 round mags.
Why would you need to know how to shoot in such a hurry?
Yep, and in the words of the U.S. Gun lobby. None of this would have happened if everybody carried guns.:facepalm:

[husaberg]

As you said you don't know much about guns.
I do and I have several including an AR15. I can drop an empty mag, slap in another and be shooting again in a couple of seconds. As long as the shooter was well practiced in reloading, had plenty of loaded mags on him AND HAD THE ONLY GUN IN THE BUILDING, he could have done just as much damage with a sack of 10 round mags.

Sorry jason i am not buying it.
If he didnt need such large mags and it would have made no difference why are they used so frequently by the military.
You say a few seconds would have made no difference he had mags 3 times the legal size he had to load them 3 times as often the most common reason for a A15 falure is in Mag loading.
Each loading event is a opportunity for him to be overpowered.
There is no reason to have big magazines for sport shooting in NZ.
Nor is there any reason to have them for home defence as unless you are a drug dealer few Criminals want to continue rob houses or rape people after a shot is fired.
WW2 was won with 7 shot semi autos hunting has always been carried out predominately with bolt action rirles
i understand you can get 60 and 100 round conventional mags in the USA for the Ar15
They were expensive but easy to get here.
they just carried a disclaimer not to fit them to a class semi autos.
I see gun city has removed them from the website.
341341341342

[carbonhed]

Why would you need to know how to shoot in such a hurry?
Yep, and in the words of the U.S. Gun lobby. None of this would have happened if everybody carried guns.:facepalm:

:laugh: The lack of self awareness is just staggering isn't it?

Being able to shoot that fast would be handy in the zombie apocalypse or if you were mowing down unarmed civilians or .... errr in a gunfight with an outlaw motorcycle gang....?

[Grumph]

I'd point out here that the one civilian whose story was accepted - that he had his gun to "help police" - was damm lucky to only be arrested.
It would have been so easy to shoot him as part of the action. And it would have been his fault.

We're not a nation where people in the street carry guns. Therefore the police seeing one in the hands of a civilian are entitled to consider it a threat.

[jasonu]

As to 'had the only gun in the building', how well has that worked in the USA?

JasonU - that avatar - I agree with an earlier poster, it was in bad taste earlier and now it's just rude.

Having the only gun in the building worked out great for all the school nightclub and office building attackers.

As for my avatar, get over it. I don’t remember it upsetting you or anyone else on here when that guy shot up Las Vegas or after any of the recent school attacks. Shit gets a lot more real when it happens in your own back yard.

[jasonu]

Why would you need to know how to shoot in such a hurry?
:

It’s a challenge for me. nothing more nothing less. I only target shoot. No critters are harmed in this activity. Btw I’m on the lookout for a quality scope. I want to be able to shoot golf balls at 100 meters. Just another challenge.

[husaberg]

. I want to be able to shoot golf balls at 100 meters. Just another challenge.

Gee Jason aim higher I can hit them further than that and i dont even play golf that often.

[jellywrestler]

:laugh: The lack of self awareness is just staggering isn't it?

Being able to shoot that fast would be handy in the zombie apocalypse so i hope Jacinda passes a law pronto that ensures all shoe laces are tied together on bodies before burial, this way when there is a zombie apocalypse then we can run away from them, once we stop for a laugh at them staggering and reeling around

[jafagsx250]

I seen that on the news also as i was leaving that and the parts to turn them into full assult rifle spec and lkely also th =e parts needed to make them full auto.
Massive loophole and very disappointing
I see Gun city were selling the parts i assumed you needed to hold the right cat or be out of the country etc.
I only caught part of it but was the gun city guy saying the 2 Semi autos were from elsewhere?

My Brother has always collected guns and he told me years ago it was simple to turn a SLR into full auto just a correctly placed matchstick.
I wouldn't fancy trying one on Full auto they are a handful as they are.
Not sure if its an urban legend or not.
But he has a proper secure bunker style magazine to protect his weapons.
But i know the military keeps track of all the mags.
I found a Streyr mag one day after an exercise they were bloody relieved i handed it back as those that lose them face a charge.

Looking at this
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-r-0057.htm
It seems 22 Cal Semi autos are not used in the states for mass killings as the only 22 were mostly handguns.

Trust you to spout bullshit about things you know nothing about.

An assault rifle is a select fire rifle. We are not allowed to shoot a full auto rifle. The standard Ar15 as you have been told cannot actually shoot full auto without s lot of work. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190319/6fcf0fc97e346b25716c2f8ee73047d4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190319/dbc4e1fc613ebfb3f31db75c542fbb92.jpg

[jafagsx250]

It’s a challenge for me. nothing more nothing less. I only target shoot. No critters are harmed in this activity. Btw I’m on the lookout for a quality scope. I want to be able to shoot golf balls at 100 meters. Just another challenge.What's your budget? Ffp or sfp? Mag range?

[husaberg]

Trust you to spout bullshit about things you know nothing about.

An assault rifle is a select fire rifle. We are not allowed to shoot a full auto rifle. The standard Ar15 as you have been told cannot actually shoot full auto without s lot of work.

I was talking about the SLR which is a British produced FN FAL
AS for the Ar15 you can buy the parts its not illegal to purchase the parts it seems, in regards to this i said "likely"
The SLr rumour was confirmed by two other included one thats seen it done.
I am well aware what a 5.56 is, its reason for being and it story getting it adopted
I probably know a fair amount more about Stoner than you do as well.
I asked you to back up what you had posted you have proven to be unable to. Anyone would think you were called steve from Taupo.

[jafagsx250]

I was talking about the SLR which is a British produced FN FAL
AS for the Ar15 you can buy the parts its not illegal to purchase the parts it seems, in regards to this i said "likely"
The SLr rumour was confirmed by two other included one thats seen it done.
I am well aware what a 5.56 is
I probably know a fair amount more about Stoner than you do as well.
I asked you to back up what you had posted you have proven to be unable to. Anyone would thing you were called steve from Taupo

I was talking bout the Ar15. The issue is that its illegal to have a full auto weapon unregistered and its illegal to shoot it. Nothing will stop criminals.

I have. You just need to actually have a look at a the stats.

[husaberg]

I was talking bout the Ar15. The issue is that its illegal to have a full auto weapon unregistered and its illegal to shoot it. Nothing will stop criminals.

I have. You just need to actually have a look at a the stats.
You are a millennial, you know piss all period. You cant even produce any relevent stats to back up your ill considered opinions.
Thats not the issue he didn't buy the guns illegally we are not even sure he reallly modified them other than larger mags.
the point is as you have been already told it wasn't illegal for him to obtain the stuff.
How you geting on there with the evidence for all your current accusations thus far.

[TheDemonLord]

AS for the Ar15 you can buy the parts its not illegal to purchase the parts it seems, in regards to this i said "likely"


No.

You cannot.

Even with a Milspec BCG and a Milspec lower receiver receiver.

You still could not import a Full-Auto Trigger group into New Zealand or an Auto-Sear. They are not produced locally, You would need to import from the US, You would run into ITAR (due to the cost) and such an import would require a Permit to import and that would never be granted by the NZ Police for either item

[pritch]

Being able to shoot that fast would be handy in the zombie apocalypse or if you were mowing down unarmed civilians or .... errr in a gunfight with an outlaw motorcycle gang....?

Or serving in the army as a rifleman? Or an SAS trooper? Or...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Or serving in the army as a rifleman? Or an SAS trooper? Or...

I dont think either are encouraged to adopt the "spray and pray" method of full auto full mag. Pretty wasteful of ammo at $2 a pop.

[carbonhed]

Or serving in the army as a rifleman? Or an SAS trooper? Or...

Do any of those apply to jasonu?

[jasonu]

I dont think either are encouraged to adopt the "spray and pray" method of full auto full mag. Pretty wasteful of ammo at $2 a pop.

Fucking how much!!!??? Shirly you are not talking .223/556...


Do any of those apply to jasonu?

Nope. Just a regular bloke that happens to like motorbikes shooting guns.

[husaberg]

Fucking how much!!!??? Shirly you are not talking .223/556...



Nope. Just a regular bloke that happens to like motorbikes shooting guns.

He was talking 308. ie 7.62x 51 we were talking about SLR's
https://www.wildoutdoorsman.co.nz/product/Remington-308-150gr-PSP-Wild-Outdoorsman
i have never seen a motorbike shoot guns before, was it a BSA Hornet or Spitfire?
I wouldn't have been a bantam as they have no thumbs.

I was talking to a mate who knew a gunshop owner very well i was trying to remember how much those SkS rifles were in the mid 90's i thought they were $300
He agreed it was arround that and said the shop owner (who was a small player) used to bring them in by the container.

[husaberg]

The owner of Gun city has a pretty long criminal record.
He was arrested at Los Angeles airport in 2002 with 29 guns in cardboard boxes. He also had 340 rounds of live ammunition.
"It was six months after 9/11," he says. "They just went berserk when they saw guns in a package leaving the country. They were hunting rifles and hunting shotguns."
He said at the time that he had brought guns back from the US every year since 1985, but the security climate was suddenly different. Court documents claimed he had lied to airport officials in Atlanta about what was in the boxes. He pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of failing to declare weapons to an airline rather than defending a charge of exporting without an export licence.
Bail conditions allowed Tipple to fly back to New Zealand and then return to California but he took the long way round, going to Germany and Japan before landing at Atlanta, on the other side of the US. The judge was incensed at this flaunting of the rules, leaned on his bench and said: "In America, we have a saying. It originated in Burger King. Burger King says, we'll do it your way. But in my court, you'll do it my way. Twelve months"

It dragged on. Two weeks before the end of his 12 month stretch, he was flown to Georgia and told he was now being charged with illegally buying 363 guns using fraudulent identification. he was in jail for a further nine months before they were finally dropped.

There are other stories. He sued the police for defamation over remarks made in 1999 when his firearms dealing licence was revoked. A Christchurch District Court judge found that police made mistakes and gave him his licence back along with $25,000 costs. A settlement was reached in the defamation case eight years later.

In 1992 he fired a gun over the heads of skinheads who were tampering with his car.

In the same year he was acquitted of shooting and wounding three would-be burglars who were trying to steal motorcycles from his farm shed.

He lost his driving licence in 2008 after a high speed North Island car chase that reportedly went for 16 kilometres before police road spikes put an end to it. He was disqualified from driving for eight months.

His company also sold a gun to a reporter with no gun licence
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/73262806/null

[Laava]

I was talking to a mate who knew a gunshop owner very well i was trying to remember how much those SkS rifles were in the mid 90's i thought they were $300
He agreed it was arround that and said the shop owner (who was a small player) used to bring them in by the container.
In the late 80's there was a heap of Norinco SKS brand new, in the box with a thousand rounds of mil spec ammo( cheap steel ball), all in clips and cleaning kit for about $600-1000 depending on where you shopped. My mates all bought them, I already had the russian version, which I believe is the original, and we did a shitload of target shooting, shot up a mob of goats, and got bored with them. They were problematic to mount a scope on for hunting and so not much use really. I don't even remember selling mine...meh.

[sidecar bob]

The owner of Gun city has a pretty long criminal record.
He was arrested at Los Angeles airport in 2002 with 29 guns in cardboard boxes. He also had 340 rounds of live ammunition.
"It was six months after 9/11," he says. "They just went berserk when they saw guns in a package leaving the country. They were hunting rifles and hunting shotguns."
He said at the time that he had brought guns back from the US every year since 1985, but the security climate was suddenly different. Court documents claimed he had lied to airport officials in Atlanta about what was in the boxes. He pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of failing to declare weapons to an airline rather than defending a charge of exporting without an export licence.
Bail conditions allowed Tipple to fly back to New Zealand and then return to California but he took the long way round, going to Germany and Japan before landing at Atlanta, on the other side of the US. The judge was incensed at this flaunting of the rules, leaned on his bench and said: "In America, we have a saying. It originated in Burger King. Burger King says, we'll do it your way. But in my court, you'll do it my way. Twelve months"

It dragged on. Two weeks before the end of his 12 month stretch, he was flown to Georgia and told he was now being charged with illegally buying 363 guns using fraudulent identification. he was in jail for a further nine months before they were finally dropped.

There are other stories. He sued the police for defamation over remarks made in 1999 when his firearms dealing licence was revoked. A Christchurch District Court judge found that police made mistakes and gave him his licence back along with $25,000 costs. A settlement was reached in the defamation case eight years later.

In 1992 he fired a gun over the heads of skinheads who were tampering with his car.

In the same year he was acquitted of shooting and wounding three would-be burglars who were trying to steal motorcycles from his farm shed.

He lost his driving licence in 2008 after a high speed North Island car chase that reportedly went for 16 kilometres before police road spikes put an end to it. He was disqualified from driving for eight months.

His company also sold a gun to a reporter with no gun licence
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/73262806/null

I'd suggest recent events have provided him with a huge boost to business.
He was the first bloke on TV saying he had sold the nameless bloke guns, as it turns out not the ones that did the deed. Got his mug & business name on prime time television the fuckin cynic.

[husaberg]

I'd suggest recent events have provided him with a huge boost to business.
He was the first bloke on TV saying he had sold the nameless bloke guns, as it turns out not the ones that did the deed. Got his mug & business name on prime time television the fuckin cynic.

Not sure pretty as he said he sold 3 i am assuming the original reports were correct in saying he had two ar15's the shot gun were likely from him.
Turns out he has hired a PR consultant as well. The police tried to stop him bringing in the AR15s a few years ago he fought them in court and won.


In the late 80's there was a heap of Norinco SKS brand new, in the box with a thousand rounds of mil spec ammo( cheap steel ball), all in clips and cleaning kit for about $600-1000 depending on where you shopped. My mates all bought them, I already had the russian version, which I believe is the original, and we did a shitload of target shooting, shot up a mob of goats, and got bored with them. They were problematic to mount a scope on for hunting and so not much use really. I don't even remember selling mine...meh.
The ones i remember being so cheap were Chinese and secondhand. or at least New old stock they were pretty rugged looking. If the smaller guys were bringing in container loads how much were the big boys bringing in.
I had a feeling there were more expensive Chinese or east European Kalashnikov's also,.

[jellywrestler]

so they deal one serious drug problem with an exchange needle system, why not exhchange bullets?
let them buy them five at a time.

[jasonu]

I'd suggest recent events have provided him with a huge boost to business.
He was the first bloke on TV saying he had sold the nameless bloke guns, as it turns out not the ones that did the deed. Got his mug & business name on prime time television the fuckin cynic.

After most of the big shootings here there were huge runs on guns and ammo just in case the government decides to ban or limit. For some reason not so much after Las Vegas.

[husaberg]

After most of the big shootings here there were huge runs on guns and ammo just in case the government decides to ban or limit. For some reason not so much after Las Vegas.

Could that have something to do with have a gun toting rootin-toot putin saluting Republican president?
The that same NRA gun lobby group, Who spent millions dollars trying to get him elected , might have expected a few favors?
The exact same NRA that co-incidentally contributes to all the Republican candidates
341356

[Swoop]

Well, one "upside" from this Aussie cunt, is that he has successfully united all of the NZ gangs.

They all have put a "kill" order out on him.

[sidecar bob]

Well, one "upside" from this Aussie cunt, is that he has successfully united all of the NZ gangs.

They all have put a "kill" order out on him.

That seems a bit too good for him.

[jim.cox]

Well, one "upside" from this Aussie cunt, is that he has successfully united all of the NZ gangs.

They all have put a "kill" order out on him.

Actually I hope they don't succeed

Its too good for him

Better to inflict injuries that cause a lifetime of pain and suffering - kneecapping and blinding spring to mind

Then let him slowly rot out fifty life sentences in the big house

[FJRider]

Well, one "upside" from this Aussie cunt, is that he has successfully united all of the NZ gangs.

They all have put a "kill" order out on him.

Maybe he'll get NZ's first 50 consecutive life sentences in one court case ... :yes:


That is ... if he survives remand ... :pinch:

[husaberg]

That seems a bit too good for him.

If the Crown play it smart they will only present the video footage against him as it wont be able to be released in news feeds
That way he cant really defend himself by spends hours cross examining the whitnesses etc and feed off the publicity of a long trial.

[jellywrestler]

Maybe he'll get NZ's first 50 consecutive life sentences in one court case ...
do you think the police could manage the paperwork for that number?

[husaberg]

do you think the police could manage the paperwork for that number?

I wouldn't bother, seriously why give him the notoriety, just charge him with one death. Then seek preventative detention pretty sure the government can make a spree killer life means life sentence.

[sidecar bob]

I wouldn't bother, seriously why give him the notoriety, just charge him with one death. Then seek preventative detention pretty sure the government can make a spree killer life means life sentence.

They need to give him permanent name suppression too.

[FJRider]

do you think the police could manage the paperwork for that number?

Might not be a Police issue as such ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_New_Zealand#Life_imprisonment _for_murder

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was talking to an actual lawyer the other day (i.e. one who does Court work in the criminal jurisdiction) and apparently the asshole won't be allowed to cross examine any witnesses. Any cross will be done by a lawyer acting as amicus - its to stop (for example) sick twisted fuckers representing themselves in sex offence cases from getting their jollies again by cross examining a victim. Personally I think the asshole should be remanded in general population in Paremoremo or to share a cell with Graham Burton... problem solved in less than two weeks I reckon.

[husaberg]

I was talking to an actual lawyer the other day (i.e. one who does Court work in the criminal jurisdiction) and apparently the asshole won't be allowed to cross examine any witnesses. Any cross will be done by a lawyer acting as amicus - its to stop (for example) sick twisted fuckers representing themselves in sex offence cases from getting their jollies again by cross examining a victim. Personally I think the asshole should be remanded in general population in Paremoremo or to share a cell with Graham Burton... problem solved in less than two weeks I reckon.

Wasnt that exactly what that sick nut from Dunedin who killed Sophie Elliot was allowed to do at the trial?

[frogfeaturesFZR]

I was talking to an actual lawyer the other day (i.e. one who does Court work in the criminal jurisdiction) and apparently the asshole won't be allowed to cross examine any witnesses. Any cross will be done by a lawyer acting as amicus - its to stop (for example) sick twisted fuckers representing themselves in sex offence cases from getting their jollies again by cross examining a victim. Personally I think the asshole should be remanded in general population in Paremoremo or to share a cell with Graham Burton... problem solved in less than two weeks I reckon.

Burtons out ?
Surprised he hasn’t offered to represent the shooter actually, seems like the kind of publicity he usually craves.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Burtons out ?
Surprised he hasn’t offered to represent the shooter actually, seems like the kind of publicity he usually craves.

Nah he is in the maxi security part of Paremoremo. Notwithstanding the leg thing, he's been convicted of attempted murder twice since being jailed for the murder of Karl Kuchenbecker. (sp)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Wasnt that exactly what that sick nut from Dunedin who killed Sophie Elliot was allowed to do at the trial?

Maybe that was the driver for the lor change? Not my area but that seems reasonable.

[Madness]

Pffftt! Burton’s nothing more than a fat crackhead pussy. Put the shooter in with George Baker and tell George the guy’s a nark.

[husaberg]

Maybe that was the driver for the lor change? Not my area but that seems reasonable.

They got rid of the provocation defense as a result of so maybe i got that confused, for some reason i thought he defended himself but looking at the details he didnt.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/224951/lawyer's-death-found-to-be-suicide
i remember there was one guy who used representing himself to further grandstand and torment the family.