Are Brexit and Trump the biggest ever embarrasments!

[sugilite]

Lets see how much of a "patriot" he is when he as to testify under subpoena in front of the public.


Well if he leans even slightly to the left, his testimony will be all lies - that is how it works in your world doesn't it?
Heck even if it is him, or even if he is required to testify. In a way I hope he doesn't just to see you burn up over it :lol:

In the mean time, here is something to cuddle when trump finally goes down...

https://www.dhresource.com/0x0/f2/albu/g10/M01/E6/70/rBVaVlwI6mmAfnldAADZYpR_X1A572.jpg

[Laava]

Here - take this tissue - wipe the froth from round your mouth ..
Wrong tissue, these are more what is needed...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSeR4XiXsIsCrdpldrquj_GP2BgVBA 9pe0gnbimYfAskKcu1akl

[jasonu]

Both sides as bad as each other. NZ mob no better really.

Can't argue with that.

[austingtir]

LMAO Trumps still the man.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyRoROlXcAAF3eJ.jpg

[sugilite]

^^ Well at least he is not grabbing her by the pussy I guess. <_<

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/attachments/upload_2019-11-24_8-50-17-png.176707/

Lols!

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/attachments/bad-hombre-putin-trump-580af2df3df78c2c73242f74-jpg.177708/

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/attachments/998c7ddb-55bd-4bc0-abe6-9421a71f449a-jpeg.177979/

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/attachments/171aecbc-9c72-4a4c-b81a-5634c73d5f8c-jpeg.177981/

[austingtir]

Oh well.... Looks like its time to invade Afghanistan again!


The shooter has been identified as Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, a member of the Saudi Air Force who was in the US for flight training (so on official government business).

A member of the Saudi Air Force, per Florida governor https://twitter.com/kendilaniannbc/status/1203021044925239298
— Ken Dilanian (@KenDilanianNBC) December 6, 2019

"Don't expect quick answers" on motive for shooting, says Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan. "Give us a little bit of time and we'll provide all the answers we can for you." https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1203025930240876545/photo/1
— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) December 6, 2019


https://twitter.com/kendilaniannbc/status/1203021044925239298

[austingtir]

6 saudis involved in the airbase shooting.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7764063/Naval-Air-Station-Pensacola-Florida-lockdown-reports-active-shooter.html


A few of them videod it.


This is one thing that grinds my gears. Trump tweeted bin salman saying the saudi people are angered by this attack.... Well im sure salman's side of the family is. But all the other princes and that over there are rogues and have been funding this shit from day one.

Bet if someone bothers to properly look into it these saudis are connected to that saudi prince that part owned twitter and the mandalay bay hotel.

All this shit connects back tot he same people everytime.

Trump/USA cant say anything about whats really going on because its going to mess up the petrodollar arrangement.

[TheDemonLord]

Bump.

Today is the Big Day in the UK.

It's British Boris vs Comrade Corbyn.
It's Leave vs Remain.


At 12 PM NZT - the results will start trickling in.

My pick is a small Conservative Majority, with Labour getting a small spike in results - maybe a few upset wins for either Conservative or the Brexit Party/UKIP in the North of the UK.

I'd personally like to see a landslide Conservative win - however I think it's unlikely since there are a good many staunch labour voters who are also ardent leavers who can't bring themselves to vote Tory (AKA Satan in their eyes) but refuse to vote Labour over it's Remain stance.

Interesting times.

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/attachments/a4qmrgv_460s-jpg.179055/

[austingtir]

Bump.

Today is the Big Day in the UK.

It's British Boris vs Comrade Corbyn.
It's Leave vs Remain.


At 12 PM NZT - the results will start trickling in.

My pick is a small Conservative Majority, with Labour getting a small spike in results - maybe a few upset wins for either Conservative or the Brexit Party/UKIP in the North of the UK.

I'd personally like to see a landslide Conservative win - however I think it's unlikely since there are a good many staunch labour voters who are also ardent leavers who can't bring themselves to vote Tory (AKA Satan in their eyes) but refuse to vote Labour over it's Remain stance.

Interesting times.


If the exit polls are right that pos corbyn should finally be gone. So imo good times coming up for the UK again. The costs voting for SNP is irrelevant as that was always going to happen because they are a bunch of lemmings.


In a years time its out turn to sort our shit out.

Vote NEW CONSERVATIVE!!!

[Swoop]

The people have spoken for a second time... and told that terrorist sympathising cunt to fuck off! Corbyn has been nothing less than useless embarrasment for the leftists.

Now Alexander, get brexit done, like the population told Parliament to do previously.

[oldrider]

The people have spoken for a second time... and told that terrorist sympathising cunt to fuck off! Corbyn has been nothing less than useless embarrasment for the leftists.

Now Alexander, get brexit done, like the population told Parliament to do previously.

Perhaps best if you don't hold your breath with Boris getting the job done - even now? :shutup: .............. :wait: As always time will tell?

[Swoop]

Perhaps best if you don't hold your breath with Boris getting the job done - even now? :shutup: .............. :wait: As always time will tell?
With a huge majority in parliament, and the leftist lunatics being neutered, it should get done much faster than planned.

[oldrider]

With a huge majority in parliament, and the leftist lunatics being neutered, it should get done much faster than planned.

So true but who would have thought that so much fucking about could have gone unhindered up to this point? - Wont be holding my breath anyway! - :no:

[TheDemonLord]

Whilst I had my preference - I didn't think the destruction of Labour would be so thorough.

Tis a good result.

Boris the Sigilite.

[oldrider]

Meet Prime Minister Boorish Johnson: A Sistema-Made Man ? - https://www.winterwatch.net/2019/12/meet-prime-minister-boorish-johnson-a-sistema-made-man/ - Will he get the job done? - :wait: - Time will tell? - (Left right or centre, they have you covered.) :msn-wink:

[sugilite]

Boris the Sigilite.

You called? No wait :laugh:, had to look that one up!

[Banditbandit]

With a huge majority in parliament, and the leftist lunatics being neutered, it should get done much faster than planned.

Hmm - Boris promised to get it done - and failed - hence the election ...

The problem is not the British parliament .. Boris already had a majority when he failed before ...

The problem is the EU - which will not accept the deal the British Parliament wanted ..

Looks like a crash out with a hard Exist coming .

And the collapse of the UK when Scotland votes to leave .

[TheDemonLord]

Hmm - Boris promised to get it done - and failed - hence the election ...

The problem is not the British parliament .. Boris already had a majority when he failed before ...

The problem is the EU - which will not accept the deal the British Parliament wanted ..

Looks like a crash out with a hard Exist coming .

And the collapse of the UK when Scotland votes to leave .

I disagree entirely - the problem was a majority of the British Parliament not accepting the result.

You can't negotiate with a foreign entity of any sort when you have someone in your camp publicly undermining your negotiating position.

As for a Crash-out - Disagree and Scotland is unlikely to vote to leave the UK - they didn't do it last time, and the subsequent polling since then shows an increase in the staying in the UK faction, not a decrease.

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.fltn2-1.fna.fbcdn.net%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2Fs851x315%2F80249314_2593311130722125_320741921 3727662080_n.jpg%3F_nc_cat%3D100%26_nc_oc%3DAQmJKG NBbqUrTjTkLB3yoS_WSUyrGpZhvc6vquhQWAC_Oz7ihCrMO8It to5GC6JC664%26_nc_ht%3Dscontent.fltn2-1.fna%26oh%3D5d4a21cc698f9618eb72ea4d5d182ddd%26oe %3D5E835E05&hash=5e0d312765c88e809b215007fa64a8a7

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.flhr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F79981652_10216561927702803_9094106831348826112 _n.jpg%3F_nc_cat%3D1%26_nc_eui2%3DAeF5iRV0_FAW3Av2 5uSPfewr4fW8Vit0drUwFWagu5Z-Se1W_3FwQ2TuhGYGFInfBJhpy794zdAg8_wYk3a_0A9EPfTloQ HLIaogZsdjn9C7TA%26_nc_ohc%3D-DF80FgwKvYAQlckUp-cXRmXOzJW_FHa7lWQ0i4Uz1hQtt0eCSdSV1JSg%26_nc_ht%3D scontent.flhr1-1.fna%26oh%3Daa118d97b04363def98a7656318ca8a5%26oe %3D5E80A7F6&hash=57278da015eac3ca91695e9c7f8355c7

[TheDemonLord]

I think I'm going to need to Vinegar, Ketchup and Chips to go with the above Salt.

[Banditbandit]

I disagree entirely - the problem was a majority of the British Parliament not accepting the result.

You can't negotiate with a foreign entity of any sort when you have someone in your camp publicly undermining your negotiating position.

As for a Crash-out - Disagree and Scotland is unlikely to vote to leave the UK - they didn't do it last time, and the subsequent polling since then shows an increase in the staying in the UK faction, not a decrease.

The Saturday election results from Scotland speak to Scottish displeasure with Westminster

[TheDemonLord]

The Saturday election results from Scotland speak to Scottish displeasure with Westminster

Disagree, in part.

The SNP, as terrible as I think they are, are on par with Boris in terms of his Britishness vs their Scottishness. Sticking it to the English is one of the oldest Scottish traditions.

There's no equivalent Party with a strong national identity in Scotland that also wants to remain in the UK.

[austingtir]

The Saturday election results from Scotland speak to Scottish displeasure with Westminster

Its actually the farmers in scotland because they have become fairly rich for the most part and are really part of the few in the UK that have actually benefitted from being part of the EU.

Family owned farms up there and sold moving to Australia and NZ.

Being part of the EU has certainly benefitted farms in Scotland. Everyone else not so much. Practically all other industry like car factories etc has been systematically destroyed by the EU.

[Swoop]

Looks like a crash out with a hard Exist coming .

And the collapse of the UK when Scotland votes to leave .

Having such a slim majority previously, and agitators screwing up the process, the new majority will make it far easier to enact what the people voted for.

As for Scotland. They won't do it and would not be of significance if they did.

EDIT: As the Pub Landlord so quaintly puts it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kam0WRzJW9g

[Viking01]

Disagree, in part.

The SNP, as terrible as I think they are, are on par with Boris in terms of his Britishness vs their Scottishness. Sticking it to the English is one of the oldest Scottish traditions.

There's no equivalent Party with a strong national identity in Scotland that also wants to remain in the UK.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/13/after-scotland-decisively-rejects-brexit-and-tories-general-election-snps-sturgeon

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/13/after-scotland-decisively-rejects-brexit-and-tories-general-election-snps-sturgeon

The problem with the narrative that is being woven there, is that England DID give Scotland the right to choose - in 2014.

55% wanted to stay in the Union.

There's also some rather interesting Parallels with Brexit - namely there was a vote, that was won fairly by the side that the Politicians didn't approve of.

If it's a rejection of Brexit - why not vote for the Lib Dems?

Furthermore - they want independance, but want closer ties with the EU....

That is when the reality that this is all grandstanding and posturing becomes apparent.

[oldrider]

Currently the common denominator throughout the world is "confusion" and it is orchestrated in order that the world will finally surrender from the ensuing chaos to the will of "The New World Order". - :wait: = (Power & control?)

[Bonez]

Currently the common denominator throughout the world is "confusion" and it is orchestrated in order that the world will finally surrender from the ensuing chaos to the will of "The New World Order". - :wait: = (Power & control?)Soros has even admitted his plans are collapsing. He's been banned from 7 countiies for interferring in internal politics. I'm sure the number will rise.

[Banditbandit]

As for Scotland. They won't do it and would not be of significance if they did.

[/url]

That's questionable - the North Sea Oil would all be in Scottish waters - and without the North Sea Oil the English economy is history .

[Banditbandit]

The problem with the narrative that is being woven there, is that England DID give Scotland the right to choose - in 2014.55% wanted to stay in the Union.

Yes - and things have changed - namely Brexit - the Scottish vote favored staying in the EU - maybe an other referendum held now would be different.





Furthermore - they want independance, but want closer ties with the EU....

The two are not incompatible .


That is when the reality that this is all grandstanding and posturing becomes apparent.

Yes

[TheDemonLord]

The two are not incompatible .

No, but logically are mutually exclusive - The Claimed desire for Independence (to be Free of the British Yoke), whilst simultaneously wanting to get greater ties to the EU (Substituting one Yoke for another) is an illogical position.

But back to the Scottish Independence movement - The recent polling shows it to be down around then ~30% mark, despite Brexit.

[Bonez]

Yeah, right. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/North_Sea_OilandGas_Fields.jpg

[Banditbandit]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/mar/02/oil-revenues-if-scotland-became-independent

[Banditbandit]

No, but logically are mutually exclusive - The Claimed desire for Independence (to be Free of the British Yoke), whilst simultaneously wanting to get greater ties to the EU (Substituting one Yoke for another) is an illogical position.

But back to the Scottish Independence movement - The recent polling shows it to be down around then ~30% mark, despite Brexit.

There is a big difference between being ruled from Westminster - and being part of the EU ...

[Viking01]

The problem with the narrative that is being woven there, is that England DID give Scotland the right to choose - in 2014.

55% wanted to stay in the Union.

There's also some rather interesting Parallels with Brexit - namely there was a vote, that was won fairly by the side that the Politicians didn't approve of.

If it's a rejection of Brexit - why not vote for the Lib Dems?

Furthermore - they want independance, but want closer ties with the EU....

That is when the reality that this is all grandstanding and posturing becomes apparent.

OK. I'll come clean and admit that I did post the earlier link just to "test the waters". And see if "the fish were biting."

I do agree with your proposition, in that SNP success in the latest UK national election should not be interpreted as an endorsement for another Scottish independence vote. Despite the SNP saying otherwise.

Nor that if another independence vote was to be held in the near future, that there would be an increase in the pro-independence vote count. I seriously doubt there would be an increase.

While the Lib Dem manifesto talked about some arrangement like "limited home rule", I think Scottish voters simply did not place any credibility on Lib Dem capability to make that happen. And that given the Labour "offer" (and the Scottish vote change from Labour - down about 8% - to SNP - up about 8% ), some Scottish voters took their perceived "most palatable" option and voted SNP.

While there is talk about independence from UK rule ("freedom" in the abstract), and that sale of some local Scottish product might be disadvantaged ("tariffed out" of the EU), feel that some of the major practical aspects of being independent would argue against it.
e.g.

UK economic situation

-It might improve post Brexit, so why would you "bail out" of the UK within the next 2-3 years ?

Economic and fiscal disruption that would occur

- Currency or currencies to be used ? Relative strength of a Scottish currency ?
- Guarantor of Scottish national debt ?
- Current shortfall between Scottish national income and spending ?
- Sustainable tax base ?

Allocation of assets to Scotland

- Sufficient to sustain it long term ?
- Oil and Gas: New reserves identified (balanced against cost of development and climate change push-back) ?

Confidence that Scottish rule would improve their economic situation

- Possible lack of business investment confidence ?
- Potential loss of business income by Scottish businesses having contracts in England ?
- Employment opportunities ? Flow of more experienced people south (or east) ?

Border management

- Willing to implement customs checks and controls on flow of goods (like Northern Ireland) ?
- Immigration controls (migrants into Scotland) ?

On the basis of the above, I really can't see any compelling reason for the Scottish voter to "jump ship" at this stage.

[TheDemonLord]

There is a big difference between being ruled from Westminster - and being part of the EU ...

Indeed....

Westminster fought against the Fascists ;)

[Bonez]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/mar/02/oil-revenues-if-scotland-became-independent
The Guardian is as reputable as the New York Times.

[Swoop]

That's questionable - the North Sea Oil would all be in Scottish waters - and without the North Sea Oil the English economy is history .
Muddled waters over oil & gas revenues then. That would make Scotland reliant on whiskey and oil to prop up the economy after seperating.
And EU handouts.

Sounds like Greece 2.0.

[Laava]

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/attachments/upload_2020-1-6_20-14-9-jpeg.181764/

[pritch]

Before Scotland makes any moves toward independence they should enquire if Europe would have them. The Basques and Catalans have long wanted independence from Spain, and there are a number of other regions within Europe less than happy with their current situation because of ethnic, language, or religious differences.

The European Parliament might see an independent Scotland as encouraging other independence movements, and consequently might not extend the welcome mat.

These areas would like to change their current arrangements:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2017/oct/27/beyond-catalonia-pro-independence-movements-in-europe-map

[Bonez]

England's going. Who is next?

[Bonez]

The Russian collusion natitive died, What's next?

[TheDemonLord]

Before Scotland makes any moves toward independence they should enquire if Europe would have them. The Basques and Catalans have long wanted independence from Spain, and there are a number of other regions within Europe less than happy with their current situation because of ethnic, language, or religious differences.

The European Parliament might see an independent Scotland as encouraging other independence movements, and consequently might not extend the welcome mat.

These areas would like to change their current arrangements:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2017/oct/27/beyond-catalonia-pro-independence-movements-in-europe-map

The Scottish independence issue is an interesting one - firstly they have a vote in 2014 - They voted to stay with the UK, but more importantly that was touted as a generational decision.

On the Flipside, There is a rather valid argument that says since the UK has left the EU, the landscape has changed - and so it may be prudent to ask again.

That said, I see parallels with Brexit and the 'Peoples vote' crowd (who curiously share a lot of overlap with the 'Scottish independence' crows) namely, they asked the people, didn't get the answer they wanted and so now want to ask again.

[sugilite]

The Russian collusion natitive died, What's next?
Yes, With Barr acting as Trumps personal lawyer and all the documented obstruction, the investigation certainly did die a whimpering death - a real win for the American constitution.
Whats next? The farcical impeachment going the same way with more massive amounts of obstruction. The farce I'm referring to is if course the blatant hatchet job on democracy going on in plain sight, all the while politicians and "supporters" of both sides just concentrate on the petty points being scored rather than the train wreck their overall political system has become. "Ohhh Trump has attended a pro life meeting, bet the snowflakes are crying in their soy milk" Pfft, any group or individual who thinks Trump has their back is being moronic in the extreme.
So we have a republican party who all have trumps nuts firmly resting on their chins as he breaks any laws he feels like and a bunch of democrats so disjointedly unorganized that they still have several hundred or so of them running for president less than a year out.
Yes the American political system is the pride of the fan boys, but that is pretty much where it ends these days.

[jasonu]

Yes the American political system is the pride of the fan boys, but that is pretty much where it ends these days.

Mate there is another country that has a system where s bloke that got almost no votes in a party that got almost no votes is the countries 2IC and he chose the PM for the nation.

[Roki_nz]

Mate there is another country that has a system where s bloke that got almost no votes in a party that got almost no votes is the countries 2IC and he chose the Mht for the nation.

Yes shames me a voted for the current PM, If i'd know she was former president of the international socialist youth AKA the commie youth I would have never voted for her. I'll give her one thing she does play the PR game very very well

[sugilite]

Mate there is another country that has a system where s bloke that got almost no votes in a party that got almost no votes is the countries 2IC and he chose the PM for the nation.
Yes, a system voted in on a referendum, and a system applied within the rules of law - that we know of. Quirky and flawed as it is, as with any political system.
It is the absolute corruption of the system the USA has that is on show right now. If they played by the rules, it would be the best democracy model in the World hands down. But neither side are doing that, and Trump is taking it to a whole new level - a new level that will be continued to be applied by which ever party gets in. Especially now they know the American people will put up with that level of bullshit. The irony is - this new precedent has been set by the very man who claimed he was going to drain the swamp.

[TheDemonLord]

But neither side are doing that

So how come that is Trumps problem?

[sugilite]

So how come that is Trumps problem?

And we are off to the races with Demon Lord asking me the answer to a question unrelated to anything I had actually written. How many times we going to do this dance man?

[TheDemonLord]

And we are off to the races with Demon Lord asking me the answer to a question unrelated to anything I had actually written. How many times we going to do this dance man?

I should have said fault, to be fair.

Since the next statement was 'and Trump is taking it to a whole new level - a new level that will be continued to be applied by which ever party gets in.'

If Both parties are playing dirty, why is it that your Ire is directed at Trump? Surely it would be better to direct it at the people who started playing the game in the first place, as opposed to the person who saw what game was being played and then played it to win?

[oldrider]

Yes, a system voted in on a referendum, and a system applied within the rules of law - that we know of. Quirky and flawed as it is, as with any political system.
It is the absolute corruption of the system the USA has that is on show right now. If they played by the rules, it would be the best democracy model in the World hands down. But neither side are doing that, and Trump is taking it to a whole new level - a new level that will be continued to be applied by which ever party gets in. Especially now they know the American people will put up with that level of bullshit. The irony is - this new precedent has been set by the very man who claimed he was going to drain the swamp.

[You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sugilite again.]

Agree with your post - trying to draw that to the attention of others is fraught with risk of damnation by the very folk who cry out their claims of injustice - like alcoholics defending their bottle to the death! :wacko:

It's a funny old world but in the end it is the only one we have got and in my case maybe not even for that much longer - hate to see it being fucked up for no good reason other than greed and power! :rolleyes:

[sugilite]

I should have said fault, to be fair.

Since the next statement was 'and Trump is taking it to a whole new level - a new level that will be continued to be applied by which ever party gets in.'

If Both parties are playing dirty, why is it that your Ire is directed at Trump? Surely it would be better to direct it at the people who started playing the game in the first place, as opposed to the person who saw what game was being played and then played it to win?

Because, as I said in my post, he has taken it to a whole new level, and by that I mean he has blown the doors of the old creeping style of degradation and supercharged it. He and others may see it is a game, and maybe therein lies the real problem. The system panders and attracts people with narcissistic disorders who lack forethought and empathy for anything outside the scope of their reality. As in, this stuff matters and should not be treated as a game.

I do not as much express ire, but more disappointment.

[TheDemonLord]

Because, as I said in my post, he has taken it to a whole new level, and by that I mean he has blown the doors of the old creeping style of degradation and supercharged it. He and others may see it is a game, and maybe therein lies the real problem. The system panders and attracts people with narcissistic disorders who lack forethought and empathy for anything outside the scope of their reality. As in, this stuff matters and should not be treated as a game.

I do not as much express ire, but more disappointment.

And that's where our viewpoint differs:

I lament those that started playing that game, as opposed to those that play to win.

And of course the obligatory disclaimer that I disagree with your characterisation of significant parts of the issue.

[jasonu]

And we are off to the races with Demon Lord asking me the answer to a question unrelated to anything I had actually written. How many times we going to do this dance man?

You made a statement and he questioned you about it.

[sugilite]

You made a statement and he questioned you about it.

Because I never stated it was Trumps problem, I'm sure he is very happy with how his shit is being applied.

[sugilite]

I lament those that started playing that game, as opposed to those that play to win.

Seems a bit unbalanced, why would you not lament the ones that continue to play the game, even add new levels of shiftiness as well? Why do those ones get a free pass in the Demonlord World?
It is not like Trump is ever going to say "Yay, I won the game, they lost. So now I'm going to do a big reset and do things properly from now on". He will just continue to do things in a never ending degrading way for the constitution until he is gone.
If only there was a strong charismatic leader with honest values. Guess the system squashes them before they ever get anywhere near the presidency.

[Bonez]

I think Trump has gotten it right....Play to win.

[sugilite]

So winning the bad behavior competition is going to help the American people how exactly?

[Bonez]

He has had his back against the wall ever since he was elected. Now's time for revenge. Feel sorry for asll those snowflakes that will get bulldozered. Well not really.....

[sugilite]

I'm sure the American people will greatly benefit from a good ole bout of personal vindictive revenge from "their" president <_<

[Bonez]

I think Americfam people are smarter then some folk give them credit for.

[TheDemonLord]

Seems a bit unbalanced, why would you not lament the ones that continue to play the game, even add new levels of shiftiness as well? Why do those ones get a free pass in the Demonlord World?

In a phrase: "Be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it"

This comes back to the cultural Schism that stared to split around 2006 - namely when we started to see the rise of the beginnings of 'Woke Culture' and 'SJWs' or to put it broadly - the radical part of the Left wing.

There were people who warned against such ideas - they were ignored, belittled, called every *ist under the sun. Eventually with enough Twitter outrage and Clicktivism - they got their way - they got Identity Politics as a legitimate philosophy into the Mainstream, now they could build the perfect world, where everyone would be equal and...

Except that isn't what happened: People on the right and then the moderates who didn't want socialism more than they didn't want Trump looked at it and reasoned 'So that's how you want to play the game eh? Fine, I'll play it and I'll win' - and now those same people that were gleefully rubbing their hands at the new utopia that they were going to create, with them as the effective dictators are wailing and gnashing their teeth that now they aren't the ones at the helm, it's all terrible.

Yes - you are goddamn right I don't lament it.

Maybe because I have a certain character streak that allows me to revel in this, maybe it's because I like to see it when Bullys get their comeuppance - even if it's at the hands of a bigger bully. Maybe the euphoria of a certain kind of Vindication is addicive.


It is not like Trump is ever going to say "Yay, I won the game, they lost. So now I'm going to do a big reset and do things properly from now on". He will just continue to do things in a never ending degrading way for the constitution until he is gone.

I want to make this clear - that this entire argument is using the terms you've set out. I actually don't think that Trump is engaging in the same sort of game myself, although to be clear I do believe that what he is doing is winning against the Democrats - by forcing them to show their hand.


If only there was a strong charismatic leader with honest values. Guess the system squashes them before they ever get anywhere near the presidency.

System? No. Radical Left Wing Activists who make up the Party functionaries, also the majority of the Media, Hollywood, Big-Tech etc. etc. Industries

Just look at what they are doing to Thulsi Gabbard. A Democrat I could almost vote for.

I'll say what I've said umpteen times before - The only solution here is for the Left wing to cast out all the Marxists, Socialists and Communists from their Party Ranks - tell them to fuck off and form their own Party. From there they need to move significantly back to the centre. Appeal to the traditional blue-collar left-wing voter base.

This is not to say that they have to abandon things like: Environmental Policy, Firearm Policy, Healthcare Policy etc. etc. or any of the other current left-wing talking points - these can be done from a position of Moderation, Stop with the Identity Politics, stop calling your opponents names for when they raise difficult or contentious issues.

It's the same in the UK as the US. If you don't want Trump, get rid of Bernie and Hilary. If you don't want Boris, get rid of Corbyn and Momentum.

But they won't - and that is perhaps the most important part - they are the architects of their own downfall, and I'm here bathing in the resultant fallout.

[oldrider]

393-5: House passed Never Again Education Act - :confused: - https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1221947925124866048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F - What's wrong here? - 393 to 5? - Bought and paid for? - :o Embarrassing isn't it? - :rolleyes:

[mashman]

If only there was a strong charismatic leader with honest values. Guess the system squashes them before they ever get anywhere near the presidency.

The party and its politics squashes them. No One is bigger than the party... and therein lies A rather large problem regarding values, coz when you rotate in you have to try to implement policy that you never had a hand in creating as well as conforming to values that you may not fully hold. The system has its say after the electorate have had theirs, but sure, blame the system ;)

[sugilite]

I think Americfam people are smarter then some folk give them credit for.

I lived there for 1.5 years, 2018/2019. My wife is American. They are just like any race of people, there are smart people, dumb people, and a fair few ignorant people - like anywhere else.
We will see where the dumb ones that think they are smart (I.e his base) end up, when Trump gives them the replacement for Obama care in 2021. I'm sure he won't give those nice caring souls at big pharma and big insurance exactly what they want would he? He will protect the "little people" he so dearly cares about.


In a phrase: "Be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it"

This comes back to the cultural Schism that stared to split around 2006 - namely when we started to see the rise of the beginnings of 'Woke Culture' and 'SJWs' or to put it broadly - the radical part of the Left wing.

There were people who warned against such ideas - they were ignored, belittled, called every *ist under the sun. Eventually with enough Twitter outrage and Clicktivism - they got their way - they got Identity Politics as a legitimate philosophy into the Mainstream, now they could build the perfect world, where everyone would be equal and...

Except that isn't what happened: People on the right and then the moderates who didn't want socialism more than they didn't want Trump looked at it and reasoned 'So that's how you want to play the game eh? Fine, I'll play it and I'll win' - and now those same people that were gleefully rubbing their hands at the new utopia that they were going to create, with them as the effective dictators are wailing and gnashing their teeth that now they aren't the ones at the helm, it's all terrible.

Yes - you are goddamn right I don't lament it.

Maybe because I have a certain character streak that allows me to revel in this, maybe it's because I like to see it when Bullys get their comeuppance - even if it's at the hands of a bigger bully. Maybe the euphoria of a certain kind of Vindication is addicive.
To my way of thinking is a bigger bully brings even bigger problems. I would say your character streak borders on a severe lack of empathy for the everyday people these Trump tantrum driven policies will ultimately hurt. Serve the bloody people you supposedly ran to serve - fuckers. But hey, keep enjoying the mayhem by all means, as is your right.



I want to make this clear - that this entire argument is using the terms you've set out. I actually don't think that Trump is engaging in the same sort of game myself, although to be clear I do believe that what he is doing is winning against the Democrats - by forcing them to show their hand.
I just love Kiwibiker, what you just made clear is that you don't actually believe what you said earlier, and this is what you actually believe :laugh:




System? No. Radical Left Wing Activists who make up the Party functionaries, also the majority of the Media, Hollywood, Big-Tech etc. etc. Industries

Just look at what they are doing to Thulsi Gabbard. A Democrat I could almost vote for.

I'll say what I've said umpteen times before - The only solution here is for the Left wing to cast out all the Marxists, Socialists and Communists from their Party Ranks - tell them to fuck off and form their own Party. From there they need to move significantly back to the centre. Appeal to the traditional blue-collar left-wing voter base.

This is not to say that they have to abandon things like: Environmental Policy, Firearm Policy, Healthcare Policy etc. etc. or any of the other current left-wing talking points - these can be done from a position of Moderation, Stop with the Identity Politics, stop calling your opponents names for when they raise difficult or contentious issues.

Ummm, ok, well after the items you mention that don't get excluded, what are the items these dastardly commies seemingly found under every democrats bed actually want to get through?
Don't get me wrong, I understand to a point where your hatred and contempt comes from. I too roll my eyes as seemingly every new tv series has token black, Asian, muslum, Indian IT guy, LGBT of every flavor in seemingly every new tv series. I'm bloody sure it is more the huge pharmaceutical companies, Big Oil, big just about everything else that has the real power moves in US politics.


The party and its politics squashes them. No One is bigger than the party... and therein lies A rather large problem regarding values, coz when you rotate in you have to try to implement policy that you never had a hand in creating as well as conforming to values that you may not fully hold. The system has its say after the electorate have had theirs, but sure, blame the system ;)
Yes, sure, it is often their own party who crushes their soul, was not really suggesting the other side did that. I really see little difference between Republicans and Democrats, or National and Labor for that matter. They are part of the same system. Poor keen little poly emerges from their cocoon, thinking they can make a difference and the sun will shine for everyone! Nek minute, they either wither and die, or say fuck it, can't beat them so join them.

[mashman]

Yes, sure, it is often their own party who crushes their soul, was not really suggesting the other side did that. I really see little difference between Republicans and Democrats, or National and Labor for that matter. They are part of the same system. Poor keen little poly emerges from their cocoon, thinking they can make a difference and the sun will shine for everyone! Nek minute, they either wither and die, or say fuck it, can't beat them so join them.

Didn't think you were suggesting the other side could achieve such a thing. Yeah similar here. Wings of the same bird springs to mind. Somewhat ironically it's the electorate that make the difference as to what the system throws up in terms of outcomes. After all, "we" have to choose "our" masters in order to get them and their ways, and "we" do. I'll probably be standing this year... just need to figure out in what capacity. Mebees I'll get to join 'em :killingme.

[TheDemonLord]

To my way of thinking is a bigger bully brings even bigger problems. I would say your character streak borders on a severe lack of empathy for the everyday people these Trump tantrum driven policies will ultimately hurt. Serve the bloody people you supposedly ran to serve - fuckers. But hey, keep enjoying the mayhem by all means, as is your right.

It's true I have a lack of Empathy, but that is reserved only for those who worked to craft a weapon capable of defeating their enemies, ignoring the dire warnings for doing so, only for it to be tuned upon them.


I just love Kiwibiker, what you just made clear is that you don't actually believe what you said earlier, and this is what you actually believe :laugh:

I've never been shy about acknowledging that I both love to argue and that not everything I say is 100% serious. To clarify though - I do believe the statements I made about those getting what they wished for (just not in the manner they expected) - The bit I don't believe (but I think it's fair to say that you do) is that Trump plays the same Identity Politics game. Thus I made the argument accepting your point of view, because it's easier to highlight the bit I do believe. As for what I believe on Trump:

He's certainly playing an antagonistic game and (as I've often stated) I think he might be a little more cognizant of what he's doing than he wants to let on.

There is a question to be asked that if there wasn't the constant assaults from all sides against him (justified or fabricated - your choice), whether or not he'd approach his Presidency differently. Maybe, but I suspect not.


Ummm, ok, well after the items you mention that don't get excluded, what are the items these dastardly commies seemingly found under every democrats bed actually want to get through?

They want Communism. That in of itself should be bad enough given the historical record.

But if we go deeper - they want the complete destruction of everything that we have built in the west, under the foolhardy and mistaken guise that they could rebuild the ashes into Utopia.


Don't get me wrong, I understand to a point where your hatred and contempt comes from. I too roll my eyes as seemingly every new tv series has token black, Asian, muslum, Indian IT guy, LGBT of every flavor in seemingly every new tv series. I'm bloody sure it is more the huge pharmaceutical companies, Big Oil, big just about everything else that has the real power moves in US politics.

Hatred is a strong word - When it comes to the Eyerolling - it's not because of these characters existence - it's because they are token, transparent and all-too-often Badly written.

Their sole defining character trait IS their protected Characteristic. I think Morgan Freeman said it best "I don't know how to wake up as a Black Man, I only know how to wake up as me". I want well written characters, with depth, flaws, character arcs etc. I don't want people included for the sake of inclusion - I want them included because they add something deep and meaningful to whatever story is being told, I want them included in a manner that is realistic or at least realistic given the setting in which the story is told.

As an example - I remember a TVNZ show aaaages ago doing a modern re-telling of Maori legends - There was one that was a good story, about a Tribal Chief, whose business wasn't doing well, called on a Taniwha to beset his competition, The Taniwha agrees, and upholds his(?) end of the bargain, but asks a high price, the conclusion is that the Chief realises his own faults, must face his actions and rekindle his self-belief and reclaim his Mana in order to Banish the Taniwha and stop it from wrecking havoc. Despite some hammy acting and some 'Special Effects' - it was a great story, not one I'd heard before and has all the hallmarks of a classic tale, all done without without a White Face anywhere present.

There's also some cracking tales from India, China, Japan (Can you say Anime?), Egypt etc. etc. Or perhaps another way - the same people that complain when Hollywood remakes a foreign film for a Western audience and casts western actors are the same people that clamor for James Bond to be Black or for Character X to be a Woman or similar.

Anyways - that rant aside, Certainly the traditional lobby groups have a certain sway - no one is going to deny that, but I would contrast that with certain fawning over a certain Swedish Teen - Have the big Lobbyists actually managed to get anything repealed? How much sway on Culture do those Lobbyist groups have? If you look at the trends - Most things start at the Universities and trickle into Mainstream culture over the course of about 10-20 years.

[jasonu]

I lived there for 1.5 years, 2018/2019. My wife is American. They are just like any race of people, there are smart people, dumb people, and a fair few ignorant people - like anywhere else.
We will see where the dumb ones that think they are smart (I.e his base) end up, when Trump gives them the replacement for Obama care in 2021. I'm sure he won't give those nice caring souls at big pharma and big insurance exactly what they want would he? He will protect the "little people" he so dearly cares about.
.

Were you here when bamma care was rolled out?

[Bonez]

Were you here when bamma care was rolled out?You don't even need to do a very big search to see what happened tp folks premiums.They skyrocked.

[jasonu]

You don't even need to do a very big search to see what happened tp folks premiums.They skyrocked.

Not only the premiums. The coverage went downhill at the same time. If you couldn’t get or afford coverage and didn’t qualify for state coverage you got a fine when you filed your tax return. It hurt a lot of people especially in the lower end of middle class.

[Bonez]

I't halerious sugilite knows what's going to happen in 2021 wrt US health care.

[sugilite]

Not only the premiums. The coverage went downhill at the same time. If you couldn’t get or afford coverage and didn’t qualify for state coverage you got a fine when you filed your tax return. It hurt a lot of people especially in the lower end of middle class.
Sure, I will take you on your word that happened. However, do you think from what you have seen thus far from Donald Trump, that his scheme will be better or worse than Obama Care - Is he for the people, or the dollar? Do you not find it in the least bit suspicious he consistently refuses to talk about the policies/details of the replacement?


I't halerious sugilite knows what's going to happen in 2021 wrt US health care.
I don't, and that was kinda my point - nobody does because Trump won't tell anyone.
Naturally you would be sweet as if a NZ party said, yeah, ACC sucks, and we are going to replace it, will tell you what with after the election - trust us.

[jasonu]

Sure, I will take you on your word that happened. However, do you think from what you have seen thus far from Donald Trump, that his scheme will be better or worse than Obama Care - Is he for the people, or the dollar? Do you not find it in the least bit suspicious he consistently refuses to talk about the policies/details of the replacement?

.

Mate honestly I have not paid any real attention to the news for ages as I got tired of Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff's antics and all the Trump bashing. The guy could come up with a cure for cancer and the US media would still slate him. Therefore I really don't know a lot about Trumps medical coverage scheme but I am confident it will be no worse than Bamma care (which was totally rammed down our throats!!!). Since Trump got in I personally am doing a little better and the county I live in is prospering more than under the previous crowd. I've said before that I voted against Hillary and I am still glad I did. I might have voted for Bernie if he wasn't shafted by his party. So far I don't see anything I like from the Dems. They really need to pull finger if they expect to beat Trump in 10 months time.

[Bonez]

Mate honestly I have not paid any real attention to the news for ages as I got tired of Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff's antics and all the Trump bashing. .And I'd imagin a LOT of US citizens feel the same way.What ever happened to all that "overwelming evidence in plain sight" Shiff pushed for 2.5 years on TV? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZohoshFzI&feature=emb_title

[sugilite]

Mate honestly I have not paid any real attention to the news for ages as I got tired of Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff's antics and all the Trump bashing. The guy could come up with a cure for cancer and the US media would still slate him. Therefore I really don't know a lot about Trumps medical coverage scheme but I am confident it will be no worse than Bamma care (which was totally rammed down our throats!!!). Since Trump got in I personally am doing a little better and the county I live in is prospering more than under the previous crowd. I've said before that I voted against Hillary and I am still glad I did. I might have voted for Bernie if he wasn't shafted by his party. So far I don't see anything I like from the Dems. They really need to pull finger if they expect to beat Trump in 10 months time.

Totally respect and accept everything you say.
For the most part, I have formed my opinion on Trump by his tweets. They are unfiltered trump with no interference from media.

I worry about the health thing as my USA based father in law has severe illness from childhood. I Have the deepest admiration and respect for that man and care very much what happens in his World.
Trump does what suits Trump, and him refusing to disclose his health plan is definitely not a good sign. As in he can kiss reelection good bye bad news if he were to disclose.

As for the Dems, as it stands right now, they gone done fucked up their election hopes - cannot see them changing in time.
Since Bonez loves my predictions so much. Here is another. If you are a democrat presidential hopeful that does not have the surname of Biden, jam some Vaseline up your butt daily, because your own party is will be going in dry.

[pritch]

Trump does what suits Trump, and him refusing to disclose his health plan is definitely not a good sign. As in he can kiss reelection good bye bad news if he were to disclose.


He has a trillion dollar hole to fill that he created with his tax cuts. A large chunk of that is going to come from cuts to social spending including possibly the previously sacrosanct social security payments.





As for the Dems, as it stands right now, they gone done fucked up their election hopes - cannot see them changing in time.


The Democrats really don't seem very good at politics. Biden is a crippled candidate. Apart from the impression that he's not the man he was, his history of working with racists could hurt him. I have no idea what was going on with Hunter Biden in Ukraine but mud sticks, there has been mud, and if Joe becomes the nominee there will be an avalanche of the stuff.

The US has never had a woman president, I seriously doubt they're ready for a guy who has a husband. Apart from which he's wildly under qualified.

Bernie should have been nominee last time, but I think his time has passed.

The first primaries should sort the wheat from the chaff. Problem is there's not much wheat and there's a lot of chaff.

And election year has kicked off here. How fucking depressing.

[Katman]

Interesting to see the people who were so adamant that Trump would never serve a second term are starting to sound rather less sure of themselves.

It never pays to count chickens.

[Bonez]

Interesting to see the people who were so adamant that Trump would never serve a second term are starting to sound rather less sure of themselves.

It never pays to count chickens.Indeed. The snowflakes are shitting themselves.

[oldrider]

I seriously doubt they're ready for a guy who has a husband.

:scratch: Well might have been close? - Many believe and have shown "compelling?" video "evidence?" that the Obamas' were a pair of homosexual guys with a ready made pair of daughters? - :rolleyes:

That should be easy to prove outright? - As it was that 9/11 was done by an Arab in a cave in Afghanistan? - I guess someone only needs to officially ask the question? :msn-wink: - God bless America and Israel. :2thumbsup

[TheDemonLord]

Interesting to see the people who were so adamant that Trump would never serve a second term are starting to sound rather less sure of themselves.

It never pays to count chickens.

doubly ironic because a strong centre left candidate who wasn't a raving Marxist would probably win against Trump.

Thulsi for example (with a few tweaks in some of her policy).

[sugilite]

Interesting to see the people who were so adamant that Trump would never serve a second term are starting to sound rather less sure of themselves.

It never pays to count chickens.

You called? :laugh:
Unlike some on this forum, I can admit my mistakes. I really just joined this thread to stick it to arsestinger when i was feeling grumpy lol.
However, that was well over 6 months ago and yeah, I sincerely thought Trump would lose 2020. I was wrong. I had not factored in that the movers and shakers in the dems had not learned from 2016. In fact, it appears they are doubling down on DUMB.

Speaking of Arsestinger, he has vanished of late. I'm assuming that the Deep State finally put an end to him exposing all their dastardly deeds :innocent:

[pritch]

Speaking of Arsestinger, he has vanished of late. I'm assuming that the Deep State finally put an end to him exposing all their dastardly deeds :innocent:

If past performance is any indication, he may pop up with a new name claiming not to know Yokel or Austingtir. The content of the posts will be a dead giveaway though.

[sugilite]

If past performance is any indication, he may pop up with a new name claiming not to know Yokel or Austingtir. The content of the posts will be a dead giveaway though.
Ahhh, I did wonder if that may of been the case.

[TheDemonLord]

I had not factored in that the movers and shakers in the dems had not learned from 2016. In fact, it appears they are doubling down on DUMB.

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it specifically here (pretty sure I have) but the reason for that is Ideological Zealotry.

It's not that the Ideas they have are wrong.
It's just that they didn't adhere to them hard enough.
And if their Faith holds strong enough, Marx will deliver unto them the Utopia that was promised.

When you view the current Left Wing in terms of a religious cult (Not so much all of the Politicians, but definitely the party membership) - then their actions are explained to a T.

[sugilite]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it specifically here (pretty sure I have) but the reason for that is Ideological Zealotry.

It's not that the Ideas they have are wrong.
It's just that they didn't adhere to them hard enough.
And if their Faith holds strong enough, Marx will deliver unto them the Utopia that was promised.

When you view the current Left Wing in terms of a religious cult (Not so much all of the Politicians, but definitely the party membership) - then their actions are explained to a T.
You doth give them too much credit. And IMO are way too laser focused on the whole commie marxist thing, they were a million miles from ever TRULY making that happen.
I'm defaulting to they just be dumb fucks. ;)

[mashman]

Interesting to see the people who were so adamant that Trump would never serve a second term are starting to sound rather less sure of themselves.

It never pays to count chickens.

Concerning given the relatively accurate character assassination in the thread... but hey, it's the Democrats fault :killingme.......

[pritch]

Since the title of this thread includes the word "embarrassment", well sort of...

Last night our time there was a news item that a section of Trump's wall blew down in a high wind. Although some reports say that the wind was not *that* high, just 35mph. This event made our news this morning.

Today I see another report saying that some sections of the wall have to have flood gates to let the water flow through in areas prone to flooding. These gates are left open during the months when heavy rain may be expected. What could possibly go wrong?

When the wall cuts a farm in half making it uneconomic, there can be no gates, that's just tough. The river meanders, the wall doesn't. It's hard to feel too sorry for the farmers effected, odds are they voted for the wall.

[TheDemonLord]

You doth give them too much credit. And IMO are way too laser focused on the whole commie marxist thing, they were a million miles from ever TRULY making that happen.
I'm defaulting to they just be dumb fucks. ;)

Heh - For the Politicians - Biden, Bernie, Warren etc. I don't think they that far to the left.

However, the functionaries (Staffers, Party Membership etc.) The people that are in their ear saying 'this is really popular, this is a good idea, this will win votes'

Those are the Commie Marxists which I'm focused on.

[jasonu]

If past performance is any indication, he may pop up with a new name claiming not to know Yokel or Austingtir. The content of the posts will be a dead giveaway though.

You could put him on ignore.

[Bonez]

You could put him on ignore.The reality probably he/she/it is pritchs alter ego...

[oldrider]

When are you guys gonna realise that it's not even the breast that holds the left and right political wings apart it's the small brain in the head that calls the shots and that little group controls "everything"! :buggerd:

[TheDemonLord]

God Save the Queen
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen;

DadaDADAAAA

Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.

[oldrider]

God Save the Queen
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen;

DadaDADAAAA

Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.

Little more than window dressing, just another distraction away from the real issues. - :rolleyes:

[pzkpfw]

God Save the Queen
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen;

DadaDADAAAA

Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.

I prefer this version:

God save the queen, the fascist regime
They made you a moron, potential H-bomb
God save the queen, she ain't no human being
There is no future in England's dreaming
Don't be told what you want, don't be told what you need
There's no future, no future, no future for you

God save the queen, we mean it man
We love our queen, God saves

God save the queen, cause tourists are money
And our figurehead is not what she seems
Oh, God save history, God save your mad parade
Oh, Lord, God have mercy, all crimes are paid
When there's no future, how can there be sin
We're the flowers in the dustbin
We're the poison in your human machine
We're the future, your future

God save the queen, we mean it man
We love our queen, God saves
God save the queen, we mean it man
And there is no future in England's dreaming

[TheDemonLord]

Little more than window dressing, just another distraction away from the real issues. - :rolleyes:

For me (and many other Britons), self determination is always the real issue.

[oldrider]

For me (and many other Britons), self determination is always the real issue.

Fair enough but - unless they take back ownership and control of their own (British) money system it will never happen. - :no: (and it wasn't stolen - they gave it away!)

<iframe width="290" height="163" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OaTv5ohNIVM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Swoop]

The EU have just announced an 80% reduction in alcohol abuse and consumption of class A drugs.

Scotland has left!

[Bonez]

The EU have just announced an 80% reduction in alcohol abuse and consumption of class A drugs.

Scotland has left!Lets all have a drink to that!

[FLUB]

Fair enough but - unless they take back ownership and control of their own (British) money system it will never happen. - :no: (and it wasn't stolen - they gave it away!)

<iframe width="290" height="163" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OaTv5ohNIVM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>??? The UK kept control of its own money system and never changed to the Euro.

[mashman]

??? The UK kept control of its own money system and never changed to the Euro.

Yes, the pound/pence stayed as the primary currency. No one is obliged to accept Euros, but some do... which is about the only real difference between the euro and any other currency in that you usually have to exchange 'em before you can spend 'em. From memory Denmark and Czechoslovakia kept their currencies too, and I'm pretty sure there's at least another 2 or 3 other countries who did the same.

[pritch]

The Brits were told by their politicians that alternative trade agreements would be promptly forthcoming following Brexit. No problem they said.

To get a trade agreement with Europe, an urgent requirement, they need the agreement of all 27 EU nations. It seems now the Greeks have a precondition: they want the Elgin marbles returned to Greece before they discuss trade. Boris didn't see that one coming.

The Brit politicians were also talking up an American trade deal. Wait until they come up against Trump's 'America first' policy.

They're going to need to be very creative to explain the unanticipated difficulties as they arise.

[TheDemonLord]

The Brits were told by their politicians that alternative trade agreements would be promptly forthcoming following Brexit. No problem they said.

To get a trade agreement with Europe, an urgent requirement, they need the agreement of all 27 EU nations. It seems now the Greeks have a precondition: they want the Elgin marbles returned to Greece before they discuss trade. Boris didn't see that one coming.

The Brit politicians were also talking up an American trade deal. Wait until they come up against Trump's 'America first' policy.

They're going to need to be very creative to explain the unanticipated difficulties as they arise.

Do you think the Greek economy puts them in any position to negotiate?

Especially when doing so will put them in direct opposition to Germany whose major industries rely on British trade?

As for Trump - you've omitted the part were Trump has said after Boris win that he was looking forward to a trade deal with Britain...

[pzkpfw]

... were [sic] Trump has said ...

Trump has said!

Chortle.

[Banditbandit]

God Save the Queen
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen;

DadaDADAAAA

Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrAPOZxgzU

[Banditbandit]

Do you think the Greek economy puts them in any position to negotiate?

Especially when doing so will put them in direct opposition to Germany whose major industries rely on British trade?

As for Trump - you've omitted the part were Trump has said after Boris win that he was looking forward to a trade deal with Britain...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/07/16/630716317bb90363142d1cbfdc4d94f8.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

Trump Meme

Sure he spouts a lot of inconsequential BS, but on the big things he's said, he tends to stick by them.

I don't see any reason why Trump wouldn't do a Trade deal with the UK, it's not like he's Barrack Obama....

[pritch]

Do you think the Greek economy puts them in any position to negotiate?

Especially when doing so will put them in direct opposition to Germany whose major industries rely on British trade?



It may not be a negotiation it may just be a demand. We should get more coverage in coming days. The Germans won't be exporting so much to Britain, there will be tariffs and likely a lot less cash in Britain. Besides which the whole EEC is pissed off with the Poms.


As for Trump - you've omitted the part were Trump has said after Boris win that he was looking forward to a trade deal with Britain...

Boris and Trump have had a falling out and Boris subsequently cancelled his planned US visit.

Trump's policy is "America first" and the discussions will not be about helping Britain. Britain will likely be forced to buy chemical beef and chlorine chicken and God knows what other sub-standard US produce. Once they accept that stuff into Britain the EEC would be within their rights to refuse any agricultural products from Britain.

The US politicians have already threatened the EEC with a tariff on motorbikes in an effort to bully them into accepting their chemically enhanced beef. The EEC doesn't want a bar of the stuff.

[TheDemonLord]

It may not be a negotiation it may just be a demand. We should get more coverage in coming days.

And how's that been working out for the Greeks? Making demands to the EU? I seem to remember all of Greece voting against Austerity and the EU simply saying 'No.'


The Germans won't be exporting so much to Britain, there will be tariffs and likely a lot less cash in Britain.

Where else are they going to Export, not only that, the EU now has a rather large, Britain shaped hole in their Budget that needs filling - Germany is not going to be in a position to pick and choose who it trades with on ideological grounds as that will cripple their economy.

As for less Cash in Britain? On what planet? Britain was a net contributor to the EU - that means we payed more money than we got back, on that basis alone Britain will have more cash. Not only that but since Britain buys more from the EU than the EU buys from Britain, if Trade tariffs are imposed - that will hurt the EU more than it hurts Britain.


Besides which the whole EEC is pissed off with the Poms.

Britain: Pissing off Europe since 1066, and Winning.

In seriousness though, Britain has consistently held differing views on a wide range of subjects than those on the continent, many of which have historically caused great upset, and yet Britain survived, one might say 'Thrived'.

Let them be pissed off, that once again Britain is pissing on their plans, they'll realise (after the collapse of the EU) that we were right all along (as always)


Boris and Trump have had a falling out and Boris subsequently cancelled his planned US visit.

I think that's over-hyped nonsense, but let's treat it as if it's true - the UK/US relationship is still extremely strong, we still share a myriad of Military tech, we have good relations with multiple comparative organizations across the pond. As of yet I've not seen Trump make any statements that even come close to Obamas 'Back of the Queue' statement, so until that time....


Trump's policy is "America first" and the discussions will not be about helping Britain. Britain will likely be forced to buy chemical beef and chlorine chicken and God knows what other sub-standard US produce.

America First should be the policy of all US politicians, but you are missing the addendum "Everyone else second" - I have no problem with the US President doing what is best for the US - that's his Job.... So long as everyone else is indeed 'second'

JRM has already rebuffed the point on Chicken - if it is labelled as such, let the Consumer decide. If you want to buy Chlorinated Chicken, then you are free to do so, if you don't want to by Chlorinated Chicken, then you are free to do so. If it's sold at a price-point where it is competitive (ie cheaper) then that is for those to decide.


Once they accept that stuff into Britain the EEC would be within their rights to refuse any agricultural products from Britain.

Rubbish. Absolute Rubbish. Just because Country A trades a certain good with Country B doesn't mean that Country C refuses trade with Country B.

We used to trade Firearms and other sporting goods across the ditch with Australia, but we (used to) import those eeeeeevil semi-autos from the US, whereas Aus had banned them.

This is the quintessential Guardian-esque 'Project Fear' nonsense that at every single juncture where their claims have been tested, they've been shown to be 100% false.


The US politicians have already threatened the EEC with a tariff on motorbikes in an effort to bully them into accepting their chemically enhanced beef. The EEC doesn't want a bar of the stuff.

And the EU can decide on whether or not the export market of Motorcycles is valuable enough to allow imports of US Beef. If it is, then they'll accept, if it isn't they won't.

[pritch]

TDL I only read that other post because someone quoted it. Assuming that your most recent post was in reply to mine I read that too. That was a mistake, but the strangest part was the reference to 1066, Britain lost that one as I recall.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL I only read that other post because someone quoted it. Assuming that your most recent post was in reply to mine I read that too. That was a mistake, but the strangest part was the reference to 1066, Britain lost that one as I recall.

"Since"

It has a meaning and it isn't an inclusive one. So there is no conflict between my reference and your point that Britain was defeated in 1066. It's almost like I knew about the Battle of Hastings and Harold Godwinson and worded my reference accordingly.

As for your "Assuming it was in reply to mine" - cut the pretense, Either you want to engage in debate or you want to Ignore - I'm cool either way and hold no ill-will towards you - but you do have to make up your mind and drop the BS.

[jasonu]

but you do have to make up your mind and drop the BS.

Don’t hold your breath

[Katman]

....but you do have to make up your mind....

MSNBC makes that up for him.

[TheDemonLord]

MSNBC makes that up for him.

TBH, I'd be well chuffed if I was mentioned on MSNBC.....

[Bonez]

As for your "Assuming it was in reply to mine" - cut the pretense, Either you want to engage in debate or you want to Ignore - I'm cool either way and hold no ill-will towards you - but you do have to make up your mind and drop the BS.It'll never happen I'm afraid. He went on to great lengths to point out Ari at MSMBC was a lawyer yet he got it wrong for over 2.5 years as did a lot of opion aka news presenters that were lawyers.

[pritch]

After all the promises by the optimistic Brexiteers, one year later some export figures are coming in and they are not good. "Not good" is an understatement.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/22/data-shows-collapse-of-uk-food-and-drink-exports-post-brexit

[TheDemonLord]

After all the promises by the optimistic Brexiteers, one year later some export figures are coming in and they are not good. "Not good" is an understatement.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/22/data-shows-collapse-of-uk-food-and-drink-exports-post-brexit

It's almost like multiple countries in Europe have had extended Lockdowns, closing Bars and Restaurants....

I mean, the Article even says as much - but the headline declares it to be solely Brexit.

A better headline would be "Data shows that when you shut down entire Economies, people don't Trade as much"

[pritch]

It's almost like multiple countries in Europe have had extended Lockdowns, closing Bars and Restaurants....

I mean, the Article even says as much - but the headline declares it to be solely Brexit.

A better headline would be "Data shows that when you shut down entire Economies, people don't Trade as much"

In this country alcohol sales soared during lockdown. The specialist retailer online I use had to repeatedly stop taking orders to catch up on their backlog. This even made the TV news. It seems the situation was similar in the US and in Britain. I see no reason why Europe would be any different, they have long history of being enthusiastic imbibers. It's safe to assume Europeans were drinking plenty but they were definitey not drinking Scotch.

Beef would be similar. The restaurants were closed, those partial to a steak would be having it at home, but it wasn't Britsh beef.

And so on. The Government likes to blame the pandemic and, as the article says it is a factor, but it is not the major factor, that's Brexit. I've seen other articles pointing that out so it's not a new idea. Of course the current cabinet are all Brexiteers so they will be looking to blame anthing but Brexit.

Here's another. Again Covid is a factor but it is not the real problem. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/brexit-blamed-for-british-exports-to-ireland-falling-65-in-january

[TheDemonLord]

In this country alcohol sales soared during lockdown. The specialist retailer online I use had to repeatedly stop taking orders to catch up on their backlog. This even made the TV news. It seems the situation was similar in the US and in Britain. I see no reason why Europe would be any different, they have long history of being enthusiastic imbibers. It's safe to assume Europeans were drinking plenty but they were definitey not drinking Scotch.

Beef would be similar. The restaurants were closed, those partial to a steak would be having it at home, but it wasn't Britsh beef.

And so on. The Government likes to blame the pandemic and, as the article says it is a factor, but it is not the major factor, that's Brexit. I've seen other articles pointing that out so it's not a new idea. Of course the current cabinet are all Brexiteers so they will be looking to blame anthing but Brexit.

Here's another. Again Covid is a factor but it is not the real problem. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/brexit-blamed-for-british-exports-to-ireland-falling-65-in-january

And where would that alcohol and Beef come from?

Would it be Imported, having to traverse strict border regulations due to Covid restrictions?
or would it be locally produced?

Your starter for 10.

And as an FYI - Linking another Guardian article, claiming 'Here's another' - nope, it's just more drivel from Pravda.

[pritch]

And where would that alcohol and Beef come from?

Would it be Imported, having to traverse strict border regulations due to Covid restrictions?
or would it be locally produced?



Has the British not had an attack of mass insanity, Britain would still be within the community and thus local to 26 European countries. Since Brexit they are now subject to "strict border regulations" whereas previously they were not. That is soley due to Brexit, nothing to do with Covid.





And as an FYI - Linking another Guardian article, claiming 'Here's another' - nope, it's just more drivel from Pravda.

I saw that because i was looking at the Guardian. The article is specifically about Ireland rather than the rest of Europe so it is "another".

That's OK though, I have no serious expectation of being ever able to penetrate the alternate reality you inhabit.

[TheDemonLord]

Has the British not had an attack of mass insanity, Britain would still be within the community and thus local to 26 European countries. Since Brexit they are now subject to "strict border regulations" whereas previously they were not. That is soley due to Brexit, nothing to do with Covid.

Even the Guardian had to admit it was primarily due to Covid.

The Strict border controls aren't because of Brexit, it's because fears of Transmission.


I saw that because i was looking at the Guardian. The article is specifically about Ireland rather than the rest of Europe so it is "another".

That's OK though, I have no serious expectation of being ever able to penetrate the alternate reality you inhabit.

"Yes, I was looking in a Cesspit and saw a giant Floating turd, therefore everything must be covered in Shit"

Here's the real kicker though - Let's talk about Covid Vaccinations and the EU threatening to illegally (as per WTO terms) prevent the UK from getting Vaccines the UK has legally purchased and was able to do so entirely due to it not being in the EU. Now, why would the roaring success of the EU 'Community' need to do such a thing? And why would the British who "had an attack of Mass insanity" be clearly benefiting from not being in the EU, to the point where the EU is trying to illegally stop Vaccines?

These are not the actions of a stable institution that seeks to merely trade on a level playing field.

And as an FYI - I'm one again proud of the 'Mass Insanity' as you put it. It's the same 'Mass Insanity' that ended the Slave trade and started (and won) WW2.

[pritch]

Rather warped view of history there. There was all these gammon types banging on about the Blitz and winning the war. None of them had anything to do with the war.
If they had served in WW2 they might have appreciated the presence of the Poles.

[TheDemonLord]

Rather warped view of history there. There was all these gammon types banging on about the Blitz and winning the war. None of them had anything to do with the war.
If they had served in WW2 they might have appreciated the presence of the Poles.

It's almost like the idea of standing up to encroaching Tyranny from Europe, against the rest of the world saying not to do it, is something that Britain has a long and proud history of.

And fun fact: Most of the people that were either old enough to have served in WW2 or been alive during WW2 voted for Brexit - so exactly whom has the warped view of History?

[pritch]

It's almost like the idea of standing up to encroaching Tyranny from Europe, against the rest of the world saying not to do it, is something that Britain has a long and proud history of.

And fun fact: Most of the people that were either old enough to have served in WW2 or been alive during WW2 voted for Brexit - so exactly whom has the warped view of History?

That's neither fun nor fact. Anybody that is old enough to have served in WW2 is nudging 100 years old. They are very thin on the ground now.

[TheDemonLord]

That's neither fun nor fact.

There's a large number of times, outside of Brexit, WW2 and ending of the Slave trade where Britain has stood alone, against 'conventional wisdom of the time' and have subsequently been shown to be righteous.

That independence of Thought, I can assure you, is Deeply held.


Anybody that is old enough to have served in WW2 is nudging 100 years old. They are very thin on the ground now.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

Over 65s voted to leave at the highest percentage.

Bearing in mind that the Brexit vote was 5 years ago.