Now, you can't say this isn't rape

[Coyote]

http://www.bikepoint.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBikeID=993232&TabID=3553&Alias=bikepointnz

I'll be able to sell my CBR for more than I got it with the crash damage if I price it according to this

[SARGE]

http://www.bikepoint.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBikeID=993232&TabID=3553&Alias=bikepointnz

I'll be able to sell my CBR for more than I got it with the crash damage if I price it according to this


sorry man .. that price is wrong.. it is now $6995.. it has had OVER $4500 worth of paint and mechanical ..( dont know what all was done, but it was extensive mechanical reconditioning)

get used to the price of 250's for awhile .. as long as the LTSA deems fit to start people out on them, and petrol prices and traffic follow the present course.. 250's will demand a premium.

[SPORK]

sorry man .. that price is wrong.. it is now $6995.. it has had OVER $4500 worth of paint and mechanical ..( dont know what all was done, but it was extensive mechanical reconditioning)

get used to the price of 250's for awhile .. as long as the LTSA deems fit to start people out on them, and petrol prices and traffic follow the present course.. 250's will demand a premium.
But from what I've seen everyone's not awesome enough to get a 2-Stroke, so they're dirt cheap (excluding Repsol NSRs, etc)

[SARGE]

But from what I've seen everyone's not awesome enough to get a 2-Stroke, so they're dirt cheap (excluding Repsol NSRs, etc)


i sold that one.. i'll sell this one too..$6995 anywhere in Auckland is gonna get you a "decent" CBR250rr

this one is prime beef.. i'll even throw a 3 month - 3000 km warranty on it.


listen.. this is how things are .. i dont set te prices .. the market does.. i am just trying to earn a living ( as are the rest of us salesmen on here..)

anyone who stops in and asks, i will gladly show you the costings on this bike .. it is BELOW COST at $6995.

i dont think making a profit is evil.. if bike shops didnt show a bit of cashflow .. how many of us would be around?.. everyone seems to think i'm getting rich from selling bikes..

im not..

i drive a 15 year old bike for fucks sake (fast 15 year old bike.. but i digress)

one thing that hacks me off is:

" whats your best cash price?"

" that is my best cash price sir.."

" no really.."

" really.."

alot of time .. price flexibility has alot to do with customer attitude.. the " i enjoyed doing business with you" discount comes into it quite a bit when i can let it ( again... i dont have the final say in a price.. that is left to the guy above me, who incidentally, makes more $$ than me for just that reason..)

i will give anyone who comes in the same basic service. some get more but none get less. ask some of the people who i have sold a bike to what i am like to deal with and im sure it will be 99% positive.

no way in hell anyone can please everyone all the time.

[RantyDave]

i sold that one.. i'll sell this one too..$6995 anywhere in Auckland is gonna get you a "decent" CBR250rr
Holy mother of god. Seven grand for a fifteen year old 250. Can't you get ... y'know ... brand new VTR250's for that? Is there really that much of a premium on pre-full-license hooning?

I guess so.


i dont think making a profit is evil.. if bike shops didnt show a bit of cashflow .. how many of us would be around?
It's interesting, I (sort of) became self employed and now have a much better appreciation for why things in shops cost as much as they do. Like, someone's got to pay for the premises, right? People? Power? Insurance? Gotta come from somewhere and unless people start buying second hand 250's at the same rate they buy big macs, this means a hefty profit from each. Or don't buy from a shop.


one thing that hacks me off is:
" whats your best cash price?"
" that is my best cash price sir.."
" no really.."
" really.."
Ah, now, this is a conversation I've been meaning to have. When I bought my bike (my first) I bought a stack of gear at the same time ... at a profit margin of probably around 60% ... and there was some significant sharpening of pencils around the final figure. But I'm an appallingly bad negotiator and while some places, cage retailers in particular, expect 15% of so to be knocked off before we even start I'm not sure what the story is with bikes.

I guess my question is:
* When buying a 2nd hand bike, what sort of flexibility could be expected?
* What about new? Is there mileage in getting last years' colour at a discount (you wouldn't believe how well this works for skiing/snowboarding stuff).
* Are you better off whining about how much it costs, or having a go at getting your trade-in value up?


alot of time .. price flexibility has alot to do with customer attitude.. the " i enjoyed doing business with you" discount comes into it quite a bit when i can let it
Well, quite. Be nice to everyone, especially the IRD.

[poorbastard]

250's Sell at a bloody high price. But guys before you say anything about prices just think....... If you sold your bike wouldn't you like to get the most you could for it. Bikes still sell at these prices as some people like the safety of buying from a bike shop so as long as people buy them the prices will stay this high.

[chickenfunkstar]

I'm with Sarge on this one, as he said its the market as a whole that determines the price of second hand bikes, not just dealers. I'm sure that no dealer would stock a bike at a price that they knew no one would pay. That would be silly. Its not even as though 1 dealer has a monopoly when it comes to selling 250cc bikes. If you want anyone to blame, how about blaming the people who want 250cc sprots bikes? Thats where the demand side of the equation comes from.

Anyway, if the prices of 15 year old 250cc bikes continue to rise, it can't be too long before some manufacturer decides that its profitable to start making new ones again.

[curious george]

Stop bleating about how much 250cc bikes cost.
If you actually go into Colemans, I'm sure someone will sell you a BRAND NEW GN250 for about $3500.
Brand new, can't do better than that.
Oh, you want fancy plastic and gofaster looks too? Add extra $4000.
That said, who much does a new VTR250 cost? I'd have one of them if I had the money for a 250.

[Korumba]

Where can I buy some 250 decals???? I will just paste them over the 1100 ones and sell my bike for a tidy profit...

Its all market forces! good on you Sarge don’t drop the “window” price would hate to pay the Rent/Rates etc there mate.

[Drum]

With all due respect Sarge, the LTSA (or LTNZ), petrol prices and traffic may contribute to the demand side of the equation, but its the bike shops that control the supply side.

Im happy to stand corrected.

[N4CR]

With all due respect Sarge, the LTSA (or LTNZ), petrol prices and traffic may contribute to the demand side of the equation, but its the bike shops that control the supply side.

Im happy to stand corrected.

I'd agree. Buying them in Japan can't be that expensive. Eg 4k and then sell them for 1.5k profit after doing seals and fixing carbs for a total of 6~k etc etc.
edit: or 3k purchase, tyres/touching up and then the profit is only eaten into if the seals die or carbs go dead in warranty period (or whatever else can usually happen).
My bike sucked tyres, discs, carbs, seals from the shop under warranty.

I got mine for 6k which was cheap considering the cbr next to it went for 7 and a bit, my bike was slightly crash repaired, but looked mint. I'm just getting it touched back up again after an unfortunate event involving single lane roadworks, a cone, a blind wet corner and some dumb lollypop man sending a car up at the wrong time :argh: They are paying for it.

The bike will be touched up and I'm almost considering selling it for another bike with the current prices going around...

[Coyote]

sorry man .. that price is wrong.. it is now $6995.. it has had OVER $4500 worth of paint and mechanical ..( dont know what all was done, but it was extensive mechanical reconditioning)

Well now it doesn't sound nearly as bad as I first thought. Dare I say it, it sounds fairly resonable (shudder)


If you want anyone to blame, how about blaming the people who want 250cc sprots bikes?
Yeah, it obviously our fault as the buyers for making the prices go up. All of us wanting these 250 inline 4s as they're really the only bikes that are reliable but still quick, we're pratically asking for the prices to go up aren't we?


Stop bleating about how much 250cc bikes cost.
If you actually go into Colemans, I'm sure someone will sell you a BRAND NEW GN250 for about $3500.
Hahahahahaha, you're a kidder aren't ya

[curious george]

Hahahahahaha, you're a kidder aren't ya
Nope. Says so right HERE (http://www.colemans-suzuki.co.nz/suzuki_com.shtml)
I guess a bit more with ORC and stuff.
Not your fancy then?
To quote:
A New Zealand Motorcycling Icon

New Zealand’s favourite commuter from the 80s is back and it’s in fashion again. The return of an icon!

Thousands of Kiwi’s over the years have learnt to ride and/or commuted daily on a GN250. The GN250 provides economical, easy to ride, no fuss commuting that is incredible value for money. And it comes complete with a 12 month factory warranty.

Find why the GN250 has been for so long and still continues to be a firm Kiwi favourite, contact your local Suzuki Dealer today.

Sounds pretty f*ing good for the money I'd say :niceone:

[SARGE]

Holy mother of god. Seven grand for a fifteen year old 250. Can't you get ... y'know ... brand new VTR250's for that? Is there really that much of a premium on pre-full-license hooning?

I guess so.


It's interesting, I (sort of) became self employed and now have a much better appreciation for why things in shops cost as much as they do. Like, someone's got to pay for the premises, right? People? Power? Insurance? Gotta come from somewhere and unless people start buying second hand 250's at the same rate they buy big macs, this means a hefty profit from each. Or don't buy from a shop.



buying from a shop means that you have the consumer protection act to back you up. reputable shops service before sale and some if not most offer some type of warranty.




Ah, now, this is a conversation I've been meaning to have. When I bought my bike (my first) I bought a stack of gear at the same time ... at a profit margin of probably around 60% ... and there was some significant sharpening of pencils around the final figure. But I'm an appallingly bad negotiator and while some places, cage retailers in particular, expect 15% of so to be knocked off before we even start I'm not sure what the story is with bikes.

profit margins are no where NEAR 60% on most stuff.. you are usually talking more like 20-25% .. when i get a deal on helmets, the deal is passed onto you. i currently have some $300 HJC helmets that i got a hell deal on for buying a shitload and they are retailing for $149. if you buy a bike from me... the discount is not just hen you buy the bike.. come see me when you need chain lube or a new coat and i will make sure you get a deal.. its called Customer Retention.. i dont want to sell you A bike .. i want to sell you your next 20 bikes. i have customers who have gone to my old shop, found out i was now at Coleman's and come over and bought a bike from me. hopefully because i have given them good service in the past.


I guess my question is:
* When buying a 2nd hand bike, what sort of flexibility could be expected?

cash sale.. no trade ask for $1000 off window to get things started.. you probably wont get it on a new bike...but it lays a nice foundation..(possibly on a second hand but doubtfull)



* What about new? Is there mileage in getting last years' colour at a discount (you wouldn't believe how well this works for skiing/snowboarding stuff).


runouts are a bargain.. most shops borrow the money to buy the bikes from the distributors .(yes.. we pay for them in order to get them in stock.. they are not free or loaned to us until we sell..) most are on a floorplan where they get XXX days interest free.. gotta start paying intrest eventually which eats into the profit even further. new bikes come disassembled. we pay our workshop to assemble and PDI(pre-delivery inspection) that eats into the profit also. best bet is last years model, especially if the bike you are interested in is in a "facelift" year.

another way to go is ex-demo.. most reputable shops make staff put the first few hundred km's on a demo to run it in correctly before we let the demo riders have a go. the demo's i have are all given a free 1000 km service and are left with the balance of rego.. much cheaper to get a relicense than it is to get a fresh rego.




* Are you better off whining about how much it costs, or having a go at getting your trade-in value up?


whining isnt the way..most shops , if you are trading in, will hold window price, but pay you more for your trade. (within reason.. if i can only sell your 1985 Virago for $4000 in its BEST shape.. i probably will be hard pressed to pay that for it in trade.)

if you have a rare bike, or a VERY tidy high demand bike (96 CBR250RRR baby blade with 1400 km on the clock) then hell yea i'll make it work. expect that bike to show up at a price once i get it on my floor though.. if you dont buy it .. someone will..
i hope this answered some of your questions without giving out too may trade secrets..

this is business.. buy low , sell at a profit, pay your rent, your staff, your suppliers, ACC, IRD, Superannuation etc.. retain staff and most importantly, retain customers. would you paya bit morefrom Shop A if they have always treated you well, or would you go to the cowboys down the road at shop B who have a dodgy rep and dodgier bikes just because they are dirt cheap..?

[ducatilover]

Stop bleating about how much 250cc bikes cost.
If you actually go into Colemans, I'm sure someone will sell you a BRAND NEW GN250 for about $3500.
Brand new, can't do better than that.
Oh, you want fancy plastic and gofaster looks too? Add extra $4000.
That said, who much does a new VTR250 cost? I'd have one of them if I had the money for a 250.
you can do better than that.

mines $2100 to a kber

anyone, please buy it :crybaby:

[SARGE]

Nope. Says so right HERE (http://www.colemans-suzuki.co.nz/suzuki_com.shtml)
I guess a bit more with ORC and stuff.
Not your fancy then?
To quote:
A New Zealand Motorcycling Icon

New Zealand’s favourite commuter from the 80s is back and it’s in fashion again. The return of an icon!

Thousands of Kiwi’s over the years have learnt to ride and/or commuted daily on a GN250. The GN250 provides economical, easy to ride, no fuss commuting that is incredible value for money. And it comes complete with a 12 month factory warranty.

Find why the GN250 has been for so long and still continues to be a firm Kiwi favourite, contact your local Suzuki Dealer today.

Sounds pretty f*ing good for the money I'd say :niceone:


Suzuki just raised the prices on the GN's to $3300..on Oct 1...


supply / demand..

[John]

I'd agree. Buying them in Japan can't be that expensive. Eg 4k and then sell them for 1.5k profit after doing seals and fixing carbs for a total of 6~k etc etc.

they dont fix shit. Yet to hear of a good 250 bike from a shop yet.

[Badcat]

250s are too expensive!
dealers are all profiteering wankers!
helmets are at 60% profit!

oh, for FUCKS SAKE.
if you don't like the prices, dealers, margins...

Don't shop there!
quit whining, you're sounding like a bunch of children overdue their naptime and mr blanky.

if you don't pay those prices that are so BAD....
you'll actually affect the demand and supply balance.
bitch, and you'll just get an ulcer.

personally, i think used bikes are far too expensive at dealers.
so i don't buy them there.

i buy them elsewhere, and congratulate myself on the killer bike i got while they command more at retail...
see, look on the bright side, ya fairies.

Ken

[SuperDave]

Well I love my ZXR which only set me back $2500. I'd have to agree that some of the prices for 15 year old 250's are ridiculously high. What did these bikes even sell for new when they came out?

[John]

Well I love my ZXR which only set me back $2500. I'd have to agree that some of the prices for 15 year old 250's are ridiculously high. What did these bikes even sell for new when they came out?
at current inflation I would estimate a new ZXR would cost close to 14/+k

[SuperDave]

I want to know how much they cost when they were first made, Ie what did a new ZXR250 cost in 1990?

[Back Fire]

i sold that one.. i'll sell this one too..$6995 anywhere in Auckland is gonna get you a "decent" CBR250rr

...

i will give anyone who comes in the same basic service. some get more but none get less. ask some of the people who i have sold a bike to what i am like to deal with and im sure it will be 99% positive.

no way in hell anyone can please everyone all the time.

I got a fecking brilliant deal on my bike, still stocked bout it. If YOU say that its bottom price on a bike already I would take YOUR word for it... you and Mark are the only vehicle salesman I trust.

[John]

I want to know how much they cost when they were first made, Ie what did a new ZXR250 cost in 1990?
If I remeber correctly we only ever got grey imports only some NEW ones made it to australia.

[SARGE]

I'd agree. Buying them in Japan can't be that expensive. Eg 4k and then sell them for 1.5k profit after doing seals and fixing carbs for a total of 6~k etc etc.
edit: or 3k purchase, tyres/touching up and then the profit is only eaten into if the seals die or carbs go dead in warranty period (or whatever else can usually happen).
My bike sucked tyres, discs, carbs, seals from the shop under warranty.




yup... $4000 bike in Japan from a whoesaler/ auction
add about $200 for disassembling, draining ALL the fluids ( cant ship by water with any oil/ antifreeze/ acid etc)
add $75 per bike for the container.
add $50 / bike for pre-export paperwork checks - stolen/ money owed
add $50 / bike for Import paperwork
add $50 for MAF certs
add $300 for compliance
add at least $300 for reassemble/ service / groom for showroom
--------------------------------------------
$5025.. following me so far?

subtract 12.5% GST off final sale price ie - $6995 - 12.5% = $875

that $4000 bike just turned into a $6000 bike with a retail of $6995..leaving room for " is that your best price?"


but i'm getting rich off them..

YEA RIGHT

[SARGE]

I got a fecking brilliant deal on my bike, still stocked bout it. If YOU say that its bottom price on a bike already I would take YOUR word for it... you and Mark are the only vehicle salesman I trust.


mate .. your family buys enough bikes off me to qualify for a volume discount...lol


did i punch your buy 10 get one free card ?

[SPORK]

Thanks for that breakdown, Sarge!

But what about when you're getting bikes off people trading them in? Surely you'd get a lot more profit from those ones, eh?

[SARGE]

Thanks for that breakdown, Sarge!

But what about when you're getting bikes off people trading them in? Surely you'd get a lot more profit from those ones, eh?


trade in's are a whole other nightmare..

depends on how much changeover you want.. i have to move numbers around to make the books work.. i may only want to pay $2000 for your bike, but YOU want $3000.. if i can get that price form the boss, i have to have a margin to write back...

i may give you your $3k, but when they bike comes into the stock.. it owes me $2.5k..

i dont pull that $500 outta thin air.


best bet on getting the best return from your trade - keep your service history.. that is critical

get an ownership history from the LTSA and bring it in with you.

make sure you have all the bits with it ( owners manual, tool kit, warranty transfer papers if that applies)

WASH YOUR BIKE!!! oil and adjust the chain, take the PORN STAR / DICKIES stickers off the fairings and fix that broken indicator..



you guys wanted to know how we do it .. thats pretty much how it works.. we do NOT make huge margins in our bikes.. we rely on selling HEAPS of them to keep the lights on..

thankfully there are a few exeptions when i really can make a few $$ on a bike and everyone comes out smiling in the end.. rare but it happens

[Ixion]

In the normal course of events, 250s would be like the GN. Simple, cheap , commuter bikes, emphasising economy, reliability, simplicity, cheapness. Not 200kph levels of speed . Because someone wanting a powerful fast bike would get a larger one. There's no substitute for cubes. And, indeed, that was pretty much the position with 250s when I was a learner.

A government then decided that novice motorcylists should be restricted to a maximum of 250cc. They assumed that the 250s would be like those around at the time . Simple, cheap , commuter bikes, emphasising economy, reliability, simplicity, cheapness. Not 200kph levels of speed .

And they thought that learners should concentrate on LEARNING, and aquiring safe road skills, and experience, before they embarked on machines capable of 200kph.

But, you guys who are complaining didn't want to run with that. You wanted 200kph the first day you sat in the saddle. and, markets being what they are, someone found the answer. 250cc machines that would do 200kph.

But there arent that many of them. Anywhere in the world. So now there's a lot of young chaps chasing those few machines. And either no new ones at all (cos the market just isn't big enough globally - chances of selling them in the States? zilch); or new ones cost as much as 600s. Cos, think about it. What difference, in terms of manufacturing cost, is there between a 4 cylinder race replica 250, and a 4 cylinder race replica 600. A bit less metal on the barrels, maybe a bit of saving in lighter componentry. Naff all really. A race replica 250 costs about as much to build as a race replica 600.

So, they're going to be dear.

If you dont like that - buy a simple, cheap , commuter bike, emphasising economy, reliability, simplicity, cheapness. Not 200kph levels of speed . $3500 brand new. Can't wait till you've got your full for that 200kph fix? Then pay up like any other junky and stop whinging. And stop bad mouthing the guys who cater to your impatience.

[John]

Then pay up like any other junky and stop whinging. And stop bad mouthing the guys who cater to your impatience.

Actually not to be rude, I dont care or anything but I beg to differ as I remember you "whinging" about 250s in another thread ages ago. :mellow:

Who gives a shit - most 250s that people buy from shops need thousands of dollars of work to be safe for the road anyway.

[Ixion]

Actually not to be rude, I dont care or anything but I beg to differ as I remember you "whinging" about 250s in another thread ages ago. :mellow:

Who gives a shit - most 250s that people buy from shops need thousands of dollars of work to be safe for the road anyway.

To clarify. I think that , because of the learner rules, 250s are now priced at a level that is detrimental to beginners taking up motorcycling. I deplore this, because I would like lots of people getting into biking. So I'd like lots of cheap (< $1000) bikes for real beginners. In a less artificial market a 3 or 4 year old GN250 would be down around the $1000 - 1500, and 15 year old bikes, in reasonable nick would go for maybe $500. That would tempt a lot of people who hesitate (or are unable ) to spend $3000 - $5000.

But, it's not the pricing on GNs that people are claiming is rape. Its the pricing on race replicas. And my point is that if people want that 200kph, then they have to be prepared to pay for it. Bad mouthing people like Mr Sarge because demand has driven up prices is pointless and silly.

FWIW , I disagree with the whole "restricted to 250cc" deal. If it were abolished then the price of machines suitable for learner would come down, because the folk who must have the 200kph fix would start out on 600s or 1000s (may not survive very long, but that's their business).

[Brian d marge]

yup... $4000 bike in Japan from a whoesaler/ auction
add about $200 for disassembling, draining ALL the fluids ( cant ship by water with any oil/ antifreeze/ acid etc)
add $75 per bike for the container.
add $50 / bike for pre-export paperwork checks - stolen/ money owed
add $50 / bike for Import paperwork
add $50 for MAF certs
add $300 for compliance
add at least $300 for reassemble/ service / groom for showroom
--------------------------------------------
$5025.. following me so far?

subtract 12.5% GST off final sale price ie - $6995 - 12.5% = $875

that $4000 bike just turned into a $6000 bike with a retail of $6995..leaving room for " is that your best price?"


but i'm getting rich off them..

YEA RIGHT

I can back those figures up ...I get charged 30 000 yen to ship a bike from here to NZ ,,,, MOST or the average price here is around 250 to 500 ooo yen ,,,A blackbird ...will be around the 8 mark from auction ...

Then ..( as was said ,,,about being un employed ,, eerrr self employed ...) you DO get a respect for how much things cost BEFORE you even open the door ... insurance ,,,not sure if NZ has product liability insurance ,,,,but ,,,thats a pretty penny a year ,,and as Sarge says ,,you CANT pluck that money out of thin air ,,,welll you can ,,but you close the shop after 6 months
The reason I know ,,,( or think I know ) is because I want to move away from the engineering / and have a more ecletic mix ,,ie a little of everything I like doing ,,,
I cant ,,because I cant make the numbers work ,,,without ripping some one off ...and I couldnt sleep at nite ,,I just wont do it ,,,If its not good enough for me its not good enough for the other person
( thats why I am crap at business and piss poor broke ......but h.a.pp.y)

You can import dirctly from japan yourself ...but then you may or may not have a warrenty ,,,( the auction house here is pretty reliable at stating the condition of the vehicle ,,,though Clocking still goes on ......

The company I deal with ( and does a lot of other dealers in NZ ) is pretty reliable .and fair with thier pricing and will I assume back any genuine problems up ...( havent had any so wouldnt know ..must ask tomorrow )

Does any one remember when a whole load of gsxr s were dumped on the market a few years back ,,,,now look at the resale value ,,cheap as ,,,,,,,,

Stephen

PS or buy a non Japanese made bike .....:dodge:

[SARGE]

thanks Brian & ixion... rep accordingly dolled out

[Phenoix]

Im going to have to side with Sarge on this one.
Company margins are getting slimmer and slimer as the market opens up for getting things from overseas.
Buying from the shop means you are covered if there is something wrong with the bike.
If you brought a bike from Bob down the road and it breaks, you'll proabably never see Bob again.
Use the internet and let your fingers do the walking if you think your being ripped at one shop and compare prices.
If you think that "there" all in on it, complain to the commerce commission for price fixing.
If not relise that everyone needs to make money some how, Sarge just gets to do it by something he loves.
I havent dealt with Colemans myself, my mates have and other threads rate it very high.

[Badcat]

Im going to have to side with Sarge on this one.
Company margins are getting slimmer and slimer as the market opens up for getting things from overseas.
Buying from the shop means you are covered if there is something wrong with the bike.
If you brought a bike from Bob down the road and it breaks, you'll proabably never see Bob again.
Use the internet and let your fingers do the walking if you think your being ripped at one shop and compare prices.
If you think that "there" all in on it, complain to the commerce commission for price fixing.
If not relise that everyone needs to make money some how, Sarge just gets to do it by something he loves.
I havent dealt with Colemans myself, my mates have and other threads rate it very high.

i've bought at least 5 bikes from colemans in the past 10 years, and found them to be excellent, probably the best bike dealer i've used.
i haven't bought from sarge (dallas) but he seems like a good guy.
also - 2 friends in the industry hold him in very high regard, and these are people i know VERY well.

my .02

ken

[John]

To clarify. I think that , because of the learner rules, 250s are now priced at a level that is detrimental to beginners taking up motorcycling. I deplore this, because I would like lots of people getting into biking. So I'd like lots of cheap (< $1000) bikes for real beginners. In a less artificial market a 3 or 4 year old GN250 would be down around the $1000 - 1500, and 15 year old bikes, in reasonable nick would go for maybe $500. That would tempt a lot of people who hesitate (or are unable ) to spend $3000 - $5000.

You know what Ixion I see your angle, I totally agree with what your saying.

Race Replicas, the CBR250RR/R and the ZXR250A/C are both replicas of their bigger brothers the 900Fireblade and the ZX9R, both great bikes.

Now, lets think about this – the 250’s are of high build quality (how the do they keep going after all the over revving bad maintenance, the crashing etc) – they cost more in perspective of loss to the company due to the wastage of raw material (milling), So there is the first downfall of race replicas.

Kawasaki and Honda both DROPPED the 250 replicas from their ranges in the mid 90’s 97ish era. Because the costs were just not justifiable in regards with the demand, which makes sense as they were only providing them new to the asia market – japan/china/korea even got a few – Australia got a few but mostly grey imports and as for us, only grey imports – as it was more of a cost to convert them to the legislative standards we have for bikes and stuff, (mainly applying to Australia) plus their was just no demand for it, why? Because NZ had not at that time became so dependent on looking ‘cool’. I mean it was stubby season all year back then.

Ok so now current prices – now I agree and disagree but logic prevails think of it these are 10 year old bikes, not made any more the parts cost a small African family and learners are restricted to them. Now remembering these are the replicas of the bigger bikes which is obvious – “prak” a gn250 next to a zxr250 and listen to the comments, People always think mine is a 750 while gn’s are often shunned even though they are one of the longest running bike models.

Bikes are cool now because rappers have them in their videos America loves bikes now, something like a 70% increase in motorcycle fatalities since 97 – seems possible. So everyone wants them – fair enough I suppose got to keep up with the trends you know.
So enter the second hand market of the sub 14 second quarter mile bikes (faster than most road legal cars) they don’t make them anymore, they are been crashed they are dieing out they are hard to get hold of you would find the overseas auctions of them are getting lesser and lesser – soon we will have crashed them all they all will be dead – and you expect them to be cheap? Get fucken real – be thankful some companies still make 250’s new because they will be the ones everyone will be stuck with after the race replicas are gone – and as for shops I don’t have anything against them – they cant make a profit if they fully repair the shoddy bikes that come over from Japan if they did they would have to charge 9k+ for them – which of course is going to happen in the foreseeable future.

The sooner people learn that the world doesn’t keep turning for them the better, sure I payed an arm and a leg for mine, and I spent an arm and a leg getting it in proper working order, but What have I got, a bike that will become a collectors dream? Or is it just a inline 4 250 that can go 220kmph. Who cares? I enjoy it and that’s all that counts you can’t put a price on happiness and that’s all this bike provides me despite the cost of it.

so if you bitch about the price go get a GN - good bikes just dont look as "cool" hell your only on it for a couple of years. build a bridge.

[RantyDave]

would you paya bit morefrom Shop A if they have always treated you well, or would you go to the cowboys down the road at shop B who have a dodgy rep and dodgier bikes just because they are dirt cheap..?
Exactly. I went to Shop A today and was *really* pleased to discover they've scored themselves a Yamaha dealership. Looks like my next bike's a Yamaha then :)

Thanks for the post. Count me as informed.

Dave

[Coyote]

Well I'm convinced. The dealers aren't the price gougers I thought they were; we're just unlucky that we have to import such bikes. Sorry for giving you a hard time.

Can't really complain about 250 prices. My bike has appreciated in value this past year. Despite the knocks it’s had, its still in the best condition of any 250 I've ever seen so I could get away with 6000

By the way, talking about importing bikes, how much would it cost to ship a bike, for example a RS250, from England?

[SARGE]

sold!!!

congrats bro.. C U out there :niceone:

[crashe]

sold!!!

congrats bro.. C U out there :niceone:


Yep this bike has gone to a really nice fella.... :spudwave: :spudwave:

[The_Dover]

No it hasn't!!

[SARGE]

Yep this bike has gone to a really nice fella.... :spudwave: :spudwave:



yup... im taking it up and regestering it now ..


dunno what to put for sex though.. male or female>?

also.. there is no box for " not in yonks"

[crashe]

yup... im taking it up and regestering it now ..


dunno what to put for sex though.. male or female>?

also.. there is no box for " not in yonks"

for the sex question - Put in "yes please" :rofl: :rofl:

I have to admit, that he did look good riding the bike...
Thats his new baby... and she looks stunning.

But she just needs a new raincoat to keep her dry at night-time.
:spudwave: :spudwave: :spudwave:

[SARGE]

i would like to ask a HUGE favor ...


could you all bitch some more about some of my bikes?.. every time someone complains.. i sell the bloody thing a week later..

i have an overpriced GSXR1300 Hayabusa in the shop....

:devil2:

[Jantar]

listen.. this is how things are .. i dont set te prices .. the market does.. i am just trying to earn a living ( as are the rest of us salesmen on here..)
..........

i will give anyone who comes in the same basic service. some get more but none get less. ask some of the people who i have sold a bike to what i am like to deal with and im sure it will be 99% positive.

no way in hell anyone can please everyone all the time.

7 grand for a 15 year old 250 is absolutely rediculous. A learner would be better off to go straight to a 600 bandit or similar, and risk paying the odd fine for being on too large a bike. Its these high prices for low capacity bikes that are putting many new riders off getting their licence in the first place.

As for getting good service at Coleman's. I can say that I have only ever bought one bike off them, and that was in 1979. I received excellent service from them, and if I lived closer I would still buy there. :niceone:

[Coyote]

i would like to ask a HUGE favor ...


could you all bitch some more about some of my bikes?.. every time someone complains.. i sell the bloody thing a week later..

i have an overpriced GSXR1300 Hayabusa in the shop....

:devil2:
That hayabusa is a bloody rip off. Anyone who buys that is a flippin moron with way too much money up their arse

Now, I expect an 80% cut Sarge :p