Moeraki crash

[Berries]

Less than two weeks ago I was in Moeraki for a few nights … coming from Oamaru direction heading south … just before the turn-off to Moeraki township … you come over a slight rise in the road. You then had Four seconds to decide to brake (or not) before it was too late to avoid a collision if somebody was (might be) turning.

On NZ roads … this is not only common … but to be expected. Often you may find you have less time to make that decision …
And?

Pointed out elsewhere in this thread that this is the most common crash type for a motorcycle being taken out by another vehicle. There is a reason for that.

[Jeeper]

I think there needs to be a very clear distinction.


I agree that the discussion needs to be focused around driving ability for the conditions. I can even say that there is a difference between a predominantly urban short commute driver and rural longer distance driver. They have different habits built on different threats and experiences.

I'm not interested in racial or jurisdiction of license concern as such. It's purely about the ability, and how do we check it and improve it. Or control it. For argument sake, people with overseas licenses not be allowed to drive between dusk or dawn. Perhaps controversial, just a thought to start.

[pritch]

Last time I was down south it wasn't the tourists that scared me it was the local cockies. Not that they were doing anything wrong.

The road was Ranfurly Middlemarch Mosgiel IIRC. There were series of saddles, and each time I climbed onto another saddle - thick fog. I couldn't see where I was going, and had no idea where the road went, so I was going slow. The local cockies knew the road so they had the pedal to the metal. Oops! There's a motorbike! I felt like a moving target. A slow moving target.

[FJRider]

You're talking the whole country. I am talking a small radius centred on the crash this thread is about and crashes I have personal knowledge of.

I don't care about the north island or Marlborough or Canterbury. Me and the family use the roads in Otago and Southland. We have always had tourists drivers here, they will always feature in our crash stats because we are a tourist destination with, as someone else pointed out, sod all useful public transport. My issue is that there has a been a massive increase in one particular nationality coming here in the last few years and that nationality continues to show evidence of not being able to cope with New Zealand roads or traffic.

If I told you that 100 percent of multiple vehicle fatal crashes between Hampden and Palmerston over the last full five years were caused by drivers of this nationality, which they were, would you simply flick that away by saying I was being too specific, even though it is the section of road this thread is actually about?

As I understood … the accident this thread is about was caused by a Swiss driver as I recall … 100 % … ??? :shifty:

[FJRider]

Last time I was down south it wasn't the tourists that scared me it was the local cockies. Not that they were doing anything wrong.

The road was Ranfurly Middlemarch Mosgiel IIRC. There were series of saddles, and each time I climbed onto another saddle - thick fog. I couldn't see where I was going, and had no idea where the road went, so I was going slow. The local cockies knew the road so they had the pedal to the metal. Oops! There's a motorbike! I felt like a moving target. A slow moving target.

Yep … very common for fog there. Try it in a very stiff southerly. Leaning the wrong way into corners to stay upright … :shit:

But … on a calm and fine day … :woohoo:

[FJRider]

I agree that the discussion needs to be focused around driving ability for the conditions. I can even say that there is a difference between a predominantly urban short commute driver and rural longer distance driver. They have different habits built on different threats and experiences.

I'm not interested in racial or jurisdiction of license concern as such. It's purely about the ability, and how do we check it and improve it. Or control it. For argument sake, people with overseas licenses not be allowed to drive between dusk or dawn. Perhaps controversial, just a thought to start.

The conventions New Zealand is a signatory to, prevents any change to drivers license restrictions for some countries … without risk of similar retaliatory restrictions placed on Kiwi drivers in those same countries. But in reality … I won't be driving in China anytime soon ...

[Berries]

As I understood … the accident this thread is about was caused by a Swiss driver as I recall … 100 % … ??? :shifty:
See, I knew you would be picky. She was Austrian and the crash was in 2020, so not the last full five year period.

[Jeeper]

The conventions New Zealand is a signatory to, prevents any change to drivers license restrictions for some countries … without risk of similar retaliatory restrictions placed on Kiwi drivers in those same countries. But in reality … I won't be driving in China anytime soon ...I understand the situation with conventions, and sadly retaliation is more harmful to our rights to drive overseas. We have more to lose unfortunately.

[Bonez]

C;mon we can't discriminate central europeans just call them earthling drivers. Aliens is too racist.

[Berries]

For argument sake, people with overseas licenses not be allowed to drive between dusk or dawn. Perhaps controversial, just a thought to start.
To help the argument, across the country as a whole between 2015 and 2019 26 percent of all injury crashes occurred at night. The proportion of crashes involving overseas drivers that occurred at night was 18 percent. You can muck around with crash stats to prove anything. Talking generally about visitor drivers, they crash for the same reasons we do. They are an issue due to the sheer number of them on the road in certain places but the fact they are from overseas is often irrelevant to the crash. There is a specific code used where it might be factor and that was used in less than one quarter of the crashes they were involved in. The code gets way over used though, often for crashes where it was clearly not a factor, like a campervan being blown over in high winds.

Rental agencies could ban their vehicles from certain roads like they used to do. The Milford Road would be a good one, and force them all on to organised tours.

[FJRider]

I understand the situation with conventions, and sadly retaliation is more harmful to our rights to drive overseas. We have more to lose unfortunately.

We in New Zealand have more to worry about while riding/driving on our roads than a few shitty drivers from various parts of the globe.

Cell phone use whilst driving is commonplace … not just a few. A recent "checkpoint" in Dunedin caught many in a short space of time. And that is in a 50 km/hr zone. What's it really like outside the city limits .. ??

Attitudes to our "Right of way" needs to change, 5 seconds of travel at 100 km/hr (plus ??) will take you a good distance … with YOUR right of way (in law) but … will you get it ?? Can you spare the extra time … just in case ??? The "ME first" attitude needs to change … regardless of how urgent your believe your drive/ride is … if in doubt give way. Your life depends on it. And yes I know it IS irritating to give way to assholes that really don't give a fuck … and are not entitled to it .. but you might live a little longer. I believe in Karma … they will get theirs's … eventually (I hope soon).

I can't help wondering about the rider involved in the crash this thread instigated. He was known to have stopped at his uncles place not long before .. and
I do know that the dangerous part of every ride is just after a start and nearing the end of a ride. Your mind is thing about all sorts of things … at the time you have more important things to concentrate on. Like EVERYTHING 100 meters ahead of you. The Moeraki township intersection was 5 seconds away after coming into view traveling south on highway one.

I had a good look at the road surface at that intersection … and one thing was missing. Can anybody guess what that was ??

[FJRider]

… Rental agencies could ban their vehicles from certain roads like they used to do. The Milford Road would be a good one, and force them all on to organised tours.

The Milford road in itself is not an issue … just the normal volume of traffic is way beyond "Normal" on any other road. Plus … if it's not raining … it will soon, probably on the way out. Most visitors to Milford are doing (usually) Queenstown - Milford - Queenstown. With a boat trip as well.

A Long day. On a difficult (challenging) road. And about a 12 hour return journey from Queenstown.

[Berries]

I had a good look at the road surface at that intersection … and one thing was missing. Can anybody guess what that was ??
Nothing relevant to the specific crash.

[FJRider]

Nothing relevant to the specific crash.

There were no skid marks. Police road marking impact point paint spots though.

Not relevant … ??

[Berries]

Not really, simply indicates that a big heavy bike didn't lock its wheels up.

[JimO]

There were no skid marks. Police road marking impact point paint spots though.

Not relevant … ??
obviously the guy on the bike was at fault, probably texting, didnt even see her pull straight in front of him

[MaxPenguin]

not really, simply indicates that a big heavy bike didn't lock its wheels up.

abs??.......

[TheDemonLord]

I agree that the discussion needs to be focused around driving ability for the conditions. I can even say that there is a difference between a predominantly urban short commute driver and rural longer distance driver. They have different habits built on different threats and experiences.

I'm not interested in racial or jurisdiction of license concern as such. It's purely about the ability, and how do we check it and improve it. Or control it. For argument sake, people with overseas licenses not be allowed to drive between dusk or dawn. Perhaps controversial, just a thought to start.

It should be purely about Ability, however there seems a strong causal connection between the Jurisdiction of Licenses and Ability, both in the Positive dimension and the negative.

[JimO]

we homestayed a chinese highschool girl a few years back her chinese boyfriend went home for a week and came back with a drivers licence, bought a car from another student and was driving about, he had never driven before, didnt have a clue about our road rules, we informed the school, not long after she moved out to another homestay, fake licences are easy to get in china

[Frodo]

Just back from a tramping holiday in the Wanaka area and rented a car. The manager of the rental car company (Adventure Rentals) gets potential renters to complete a relatively simple road code questionnaire. She also asks (some?) drivers to drive around the block with her before she gives them the keys.
In some cases, this encourages less competent people to leave without renting a vehicle. Whether they go somewhere else or decide to take the bus I don't know.
These seem to be simple steps that all rental companies should adopt.

[sidecar bob]

This promising young man owned my local, the story says it all.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/79592154/tourist-driver-pleads-guilty-to-causing-death-of-motorcyclist-rhys-middleton

[Jeeper]

we homestayed a chinese highschool girl a few years back her chinese boyfriend went home for a week and came back with a drivers licence, bought a car from another student and was driving about, he had never driven before, didnt have a clue about our road rules, we informed the school, not long after she moved out to another homestay, fake licences are easy to get in chinaI remember when I converted my overseas licences (US and two other jurisdictions) some 20+ years ago, I had to sit the written test before getting my full license convertion. Has NZTA changed the rules now?

Also remember, you don't need to have a license to own a car in NZ.

[jasonu]

I installed a dashcam in my Jeep over the weekend, and today captured this wonderful driving from a bus driver. As soon as I saw the bus pulling out on left, I knew there was absolutely no intention on his part to even care who he sideswiped. I stomped on the brakes and hoped the driver behind me stopped as well. You can clearly see how many cars had to brake because of this bus driver's impatience.

A bus weaving like that in rush hour traffic, who needs tourists for an accident. I have many similar examples on my bike dashcam.

https://youtu.be/4Hxz7Afq9gA

Nothing new mate. Bus drivers in Auckland have always been cunts.
Why are the comments for the clip turned off?

[rastuscat]

Funnily enough … they "May" be shitty drivers … but they don't feature much in fatal accident stat's … from European areas usually.

A thing to look at in crashes with "Foreign driver involvement" ... is whom is at fault. Often the headline is "Overseas tourist was involved" … not always found to be at fault. Mention of charges laid is usually mentioned on page three … a week later.

Page 3 is the diagram page. Page 4 tells the story.

I'm referring to the crash reports.

[Jeeper]

Nothing new mate. Bus drivers in Auckland have always been cunts.
Why are the comments for the clip turned off?I should turn them on, just had the default setting in my head as off.

As for the bus drivers, this time I was driving. But on the bike using bus lane has made me very aware of their ways.

[FJRider]

I remember when I converted my overseas licences (US and two other jurisdictions) some 20+ years ago, I had to sit the written test before getting my full license convertion. Has NZTA changed the rules now?

You can drive on an overseas license (from an approved country) for 12 months before you need the NZ license.

[FJRider]

Page 3 is the diagram page. Page 4 tells the story.

I'm referring to the crash reports.

And I was referring to the newspaper page three …. although you are probably more familiar with the page 3 of another tabloid … ;)

[rastuscat]

And I was referring to the newspaper page three …. although you are probably more familiar with the page 3 of another tabloid … ;)

Them were the days 😍