The 2020 Election Thread

[FJRider]

And you're more than welcome to line up for your shot of an 'experimental' vaccine.

I'm closer to the "Old and infirm" profile. I very much doubt I'll be sought for any input into that program ... bugger eh ... :laugh:


Nice copy and paste.

You're too kind ... :shifty:


Thanks anyway, but I'm reasonably well read on vaccines.

(Probably more so than yourself, if your incredibly simplistic copy and paste is anything to go by).

Again ... you're too kind. No point in making things difficult ... eh ... :laugh:

I've found some people prefer (and understand) "Simple" better. Horses for courses ... and all that ... :shifty:

[Viking01]

I'm closer to the "Old and infirm" profile. I very much doubt I'll be sought for any input into that program ... bugger eh ... :laugh:



Well, if you don't get any offers from organisations wishing to poke needles into you and trial their vaccines,
there are others that may simply be interested in your Covid lockdown experience e.g.

https://www.haveoursay.org/

[Katman]

https://www.haveoursay.org/

Damn, I feel excluded.

[Katman]

What sort of person would wilfully cause uncertainty in the community by being known to be refusing to get vaccinated for a deadly virus ?

And furthermore, do try to keep a degree of perspective when talking about 'deadly' viruses.

We're not dealing with Ebola on steroids here.

The death figures suggest there's not much difference between this and many other recurring conditions.

[eldog]

My daughter is a courier in Queenstown. On one day her normal 230 odd parcels to deliver ballooned to over 900 ... including 3 microwaves.

Thats cool.

my work courier is finding it tuff.
he now works Monday AND Tuesday only.

the replacements is far can AWESOME.
now I know the parcels will be delivered AND picked up.

cant wait till he takes Monday and Tuesday off a well.:niceone:

almost changed from NZC to any other courier company, because of his attitude.
Everyone on his run would be happy.

the new guy is exactly what you expect, would be happy to pay more to keep him full time.

[eldog]

I'm closer to the "Old and infirm" profile.

Never too old, just wiser with experience.:whistle:

[FJRider]

And furthermore, do try to keep a degree of perspective when talking about 'deadly' viruses.d

We're not dealing with Ebola on steroids here.

The death figures suggest there's not much difference between this and many other recurring conditions.

Explain that to the families of the dead. Wherever they died.

Explain that to the members of the families that passed the virus onto their family members in THIS country. The ones that thought there was no risk involved in their movements. The ones that thought their rights would override recommendations from the ministry of health ... even in the early stages of the pandemic.

With the actual structure and processes of the virus still unclear ... with possible changes and actions of the virus still unknown ... possible remnants of the virus remaining with those the tested positive ... then negative ... and possible reasons for THAT still unclear ...

Your ... "The death figures suggest" comment seems a little borderline black humor. I doubt many of those I mentioned above will be laughing though.

Funny that ...

AND ... It aint over yet either. If you want to comment further ... give it a year. Hindsight reveals everything.

Ok ... maybe not everything. Some things are better left unseen.

[FJRider]

Never too old, just wiser with experience.:whistle:

Such wisdom comes with time. I just wish it would hurry the fuck up ... ;)

[FJRider]

Well, if you don't get any offers from organisations wishing to poke needles into you and trial their vaccines,
there are others that may simply be interested in your Covid lockdown experience e.g.

https://www.haveoursay.org/

I wish I had one. I had to work.

[TheDemonLord]

But you weren't in charge....It's gone and over with. No use crying over it.

Except the massive amount of Debt that people like me are going to have to pay back, so it's not really gone or over with, is it?

[TheDemonLord]

Well some clearly were.

My wife got a case of wine delivered during it.

Indeed - which is kinda my point - a large number of businesses not deemed essential would have been able to operate online-only, but weren't allowed to until level 3.

[TheDemonLord]

No it doesn't, two totally different meanings, it also misses out a large part of what he said afterwards

not really, considering when it was said and in reference to what it was said. Basically telling people that they shouldn't complain when yet another Migrant, adhering to a specific religion decides to go and kill innocent people.

[Bonez]

Except the massive amount of Debt that people like me are going to have to pay back, so it's not really gone or over with, is it?It was a damnmed if we do, damned if we don't situation. Adapt and move forward.

[Katman]

Basically telling people that they shouldn't complain when yet another Migrant, adhering to a specific religion decides to go and kill innocent people.

And that right there folks, is a perfect example of twisting words to suit ones agenda.

[FJRider]

not really, considering when it was said and in reference to what it was said. Basically telling people that they shouldn't complain when yet another Migrant, adhering to a specific religion decides to go and kill innocent people.

How do you feel about being misquoted ... ??? you have complained when a full quote was not made of what you posted. There is a big difference between
"First I'll raise Sadiq Kahn, who tells us that Terror attacks are apparently just part of living in a big city these days...." ... implying terror attacks are a regular occurrence in a big city. When was the last one in any big city ... anywhere .. ??

What actually was said being "the threat of terror attacks are part and parcel of living in a big city". What is the certainty of a terror attack happening in any big city on any given day ... ?? Impossible, possible but unlikely, possible but rare, possible and happens regularly, possible and happens monthly, or possible and happens on a daily basis ... ?? Which of these choices would actually be closest to actual events happening in any big city ...ANYWHERE in the world ... ???

By comparison ... note the difference between "The threat of being involved in a vehicle accident is part and parcel of living in a big city" and "Having accidents is part and parcel of living in a big city" ... the difference in meaning is quite distinct.

And as a side note ... In what religion are terror attacks required as part of their religion ... ??

At best it is a tactic some groups (NOT always religious groups either) use to get attention. It is not written into any religion. It Is written in the Koran that any Muslim that is killed in the fight for Allah will go to paradise (and get their obligatory 72 virgins -[the actual sex/species of the virgins are unspecified]). No mention of any specific cause of death ... be it being shot/killed by an enemy ... or by a suicide act. But ONLY ... in the fight for Allah.

Do you recall when the last terror attack in any big city was ... ???? I can't recall one happening for quite a while ... but I'm old and my memory gives me grief.

[Kickaha]

not really, considering when it was said and in reference to what it was said. Basically telling people that they shouldn't complain when yet another Migrant, adhering to a specific religion decides to go and kill innocent people.

That wasn't what he said at all, but carry on making shit up to suit yourself, you may as well stick with what you're good at

[Bonez]

How do you feel about being misquoted ... ??? you have complained when a full quote was not made of what you posted. There is a big difference between
"First I'll raise Sadiq Kahn, who tells us that Terror attacks are apparently just part of living in a big city these days...." ... implying terror attacks are a regular occurrence in a big city. When was the last one in any big city ... anywhere .. ??

What actually was said being "the threat of terror attacks are part and parcel of living in a big city". What is the certainty of a terror attack happening in any big city on any given day ... ?? Impossible, possible but unlikely, possible but rare, possible and happens regularly, possible and happens monthly, or possible and happens on a daily basis ... ?? Which of these choices would actually be closest to actual events happening in any big city ...ANYWHERE in the world ... ???

By comparison ... note the difference between "The threat of being involved in a vehicle accident is part and parcel of living in a big city" and "Having accidents is part and parcel of living in a big city" ... the difference in meaning is quite distinct.

And as a side note ... In what religion are terror attacks required as part of their religion ... ??

At best it is a tactic some groups (NOT always religious groups either) use to get attention. It is not written into any religion. It Is written in the Koran that any Muslim that is killed in the fight for Allah will go to paradise (and get their obligatory 72 virgins -[the actual sex/species of the virgins are unspecified]). No mention of any specific cause of death ... be it being shot/killed by an enemy ... or by a suicide act. But ONLY ... in the fight for Allah.

Do you recall when the last terror attack in any big city was ... ???? I can't recall one happening for quite a while ... but I'm old and my memory gives me grief.What FJRider posted....

[FJRider]

That wasn't what he said at all, but carry on making shit up to suit yourself, you may as well stick with what you're good at

He's not that good at that either ... ;)

[pete376403]

http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/06/gordon-campbell-on-the-media-collusion-with-nationals-attack-lines/

[TheDemonLord]

It was a damnmed if we do, damned if we don't situation. Adapt and move forward.

Was it?

Does the fact that it happened absolve those responsible or in power from any form of Responsibility?

[TheDemonLord]

And that right there folks, is a perfect example of twisting words to suit ones agenda.


That wasn't what he said at all, but carry on making shit up to suit yourself, you may as well stick with what you're good at

I think the easiest way to address both of these points (since they are broadly the same) is to point to the Mayor's official website:

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/0322

"saying something is “part and parcel” now of basically being a big city. It felt rather fatalistic. It struck me as being slightly fatalistic to say that... ...but saying something is “part and parcel” is almost like saying it is rather like bad weather."

Seems I'm not the only one to take the above interpretation as to what was said and the Context in which it was said.

Now, Sadiq points to his follow-up comments about Vigilance as to what is the spirit in which it should be taken. There are two problems with this, one is ignoring the often imported nature of such issues and the second is in relation to his stances on other issues (Inner City Knife Crime for example)

Based on the above, I don't grant him that interpretation, The interpretation that we should just suck it up and accept it and get on with it is in line with other statements he has made on similar issues - namely that certain things that those pesky Gammon are up in arms about should be sacrificed upon the altar of Sadiq's vision of the future.


How do you feel about being misquoted ... ??? you have complained when a full quote was not made of what you posted. There is a big difference between
"First I'll raise Sadiq Kahn, who tells us that Terror attacks are apparently just part of living in a big city these days...." ... implying terror attacks are a regular occurrence in a big city. When was the last one in any big city ... anywhere .. ??

What actually was said being "the threat of terror attacks are part and parcel of living in a big city". What is the certainty of a terror attack happening in any big city on any given day ... ?? Impossible, possible but unlikely, possible but rare, possible and happens regularly, possible and happens monthly, or possible and happens on a daily basis ... ?? Which of these choices would actually be closest to actual events happening in any big city ...ANYWHERE in the world ... ???

It was clearly a paraphrase, and not that they are a regular occurrence, but that we should accept them as a reality - as above, given other statements Sadiq has made, this is more in line with his ideals than Vigilance.



And as a side note ... In what religion are terror attacks required as part of their religion ... ??


It Is written in the Koran that any Muslim that is killed in the fight for Allah will go to paradise (and get their obligatory 72 virgins -[the actual sex/species of the virgins are unspecified]). No mention of any specific cause of death ... be it being shot/killed by an enemy ... or by a suicide act. But ONLY ... in the fight for Allah.

Kinda answering your own question there... No one is saying Required - but what you've written above would be more than incentive enough for someone to wish to take up arms in the name of Allah.

Add in a few of the spicier passages in the later Hadiths (the ones where Mohammed was a conquering warlord and expects all people to forcible convert to Islam or pay the Fine) and you've got all the words needed to compel some people, And I'm happy to admit that it is a small minority - but still one that exists, to commit acts of terror with the full blessing of their God.


Do you recall when the last terror attack in any big city was ... ???? I can't recall one happening for quite a while ... but I'm old and my memory gives me grief.

It would be the Bombing in Sri Lanka if my memory serves...

[TheDemonLord]

Out of money taken in Tax. To get more tax ... they have to keep the one's working ... working. You dont seem stupid enough to not know that. (Perhaps I was wrong to assume that)

Ah yes, Socialists robbing Peter, to pay Paul - It's always worked flawlessly in history...


The fact that it was (and STILL is) a world wide pandemic that they were trying to contain the spread of ... it wasn't Government Ministers at those places ... telling them who could or could not leave. They had written rules on procedure. Procedure was not followed at those places. Those at the top just failed to ensure the rules were being adhered to. The ones that were at the isolation points didn't do their job. Responsibility at the top. Fault at the bottom.

One could maybe forgive small errors of judgement in the initial stages - however things like:

- Expecting overseas visitors to self-isolate by giving them a pamphlet
- Not testing people when releasing them from isolated.
- Allowing the Pathogen to re-enter the populace.

These aren't mere 'oopsies', this is fundamental failures that start at the top and work their way down.


Are you saying that the stock market crash and devaluation caused 250,000 cancer deaths in the US ... ??

No, I'm not saying it... The Lancet is.


Those that died WERE (supposedly) in safe places ... The "Protections" didn't work. People that weren't tested got exemptions/permission to visit them ... and people died.

Those people that spread it then "got on with their lives" ... and possibly spread it some more ... possibly into areas that didn't have it. Remember the "Bluff wedding" that caused a death ... ??? But that is acceptable as those that spread it get on with their lives.

"Weren't tested", "Got Exemptions".

^^^ There's your problem.

If memory serves, the Bluff wedding, the Death (as tragic as it was) was someone from the at-risk demographic, only one fatality from a party of about 70 people. Linking this back to my original point:

If that one person was in Isolation (properly managed, without allowing exemptions to those untested) and the rest attended the wedding and got sick (but didn't die), seems to me that would be an acceptable (although not preferred) outcome.


How many Ministers of Government (or senior Government officials) were waiting at the airport ... supervising the isolation procedures ... ???

Command Responsibility.

[FJRider]

Ah yes, Socialists robbing Peter, to pay Paul - It's always worked flawlessly in history...

It seems to be working though. If you got any of the money that was "Robbed" ... do we start calling you Paul .. ??


One could maybe forgive small errors of judgement in the initial stages - however things like:

- Expecting overseas visitors to self-isolate by giving them a pamphlet
- Not testing people when releasing them from isolated.
- Allowing the Pathogen to re-enter the populace.

These aren't mere 'oopsies', this is fundamental failures that start at the top and work their way down.

Given the seriousness of the pandemic ... even in the early stages it WAS seen as (and was being reported as) ... being a world wide issue.

But ... NOBODY (except Bloomfield and the PM) in the entire command structure (from the Minister of health down to those in charge of seeing that those arriving ... followed the required procedures) were seen to be taking it seriously. Even in the early stages though ... those visitors found NOT following protocol were removed from the country.[/QUOTE]


No, I'm not saying it... The Lancet is.

Ok ... and seeing as you quoted them ... you obviously can believe that a stock market crash (anywhere in the world) ... can cause 250,000 CANCER deaths. Perhaps your gullibility got the better of you. Perhaps "The Lancet" isn't as credible as you imagined. Although it was already known that you do have a vivid imagination.


"Weren't tested", "Got Exemptions".

^^^ There's your problem.

As the saying goes ... No shit Sherlock .. ;) The self centered wankers that spread it knew they weren't tested ... but saw no issue. But ... still took the liberties that were not recommended even then.


If memory serves, the Bluff wedding, the Death (as tragic as it was) was someone from the at-risk demographic, only one fatality from a party of about 70 people. Linking this back to my original point:

If that one person was in Isolation (properly managed, without allowing exemptions to those untested) and the rest attended the wedding and got sick (but didn't die), seems to me that would be an acceptable (although not preferred) outcome.

IF .. ?? you don't know .. and don't really care .. ?? Not a relative of your's ... only one died ... so not an issue. Right .. ??

As I recall ... the person that spread it to the other wedding guests was "Linked to overseas travel" and was not in isolation ... as it was in the very early stages of lockdown. A few did not attend the wedding .. due to concerns of the possible pandemic issues it may cause. However ... even with basic attempts at protection (and obvious failure) ... those that attended were getting on with their lives.




Command Responsibility.

Command responsibility works from the top down. Even on the front line there is the need for some command responsibility. Even with the Clipboard holder at the airport ... handing out the pamphlets.

But even they weren't taking it seriously.

[TheDemonLord]

It seems to be working though. If you got any of the money that was "Robbed" ... do we start calling you Paul .. ??

I'm still waiting for my Cheque from Auntie Cindy, Something tells me I'll be waiting a very long time.


Given the seriousness of the pandemic ... even in the early stages it WAS seen as (and was being reported as) ... being a world wide issue.

But ... NOBODY (except Bloomfield and the PM) in the entire command structure (from the Minister of health down to those in charge of seeing that those arriving ... followed the required procedures) were seen to be taking it seriously. Even in the early stages though ... those visitors found NOT following protocol were removed from the country.

which reinforces my point: If only the PM is taking it seriously and no one else is - that is a clear failure from the top down.


Ok ... and seeing as you quoted them ... you obviously can believe that a stock market crash (anywhere in the world) ... can cause 250,000 CANCER deaths. Perhaps your gullibility got the better of you. Perhaps "The Lancet" isn't as credible as you imagined. Although it was already known that you do have a vivid imagination.

Okay, I'll break it down for you - there are Treatable Cancers (more than a 50% recovery rate) and Untreatable Cancers. Some people who get a Treatable Cancer (due to various circumstances) are going to die, others are going to live.

So, you look at the rates of Treatable Cancer in terms of total number diagnosed and total number dead and you look at each year and you plot the survival rates.

Where the economy comes into it is that treating Cancer requires resources (Money, Staff, Equipment, Drugs etc.) and when everything turns to shit (as it did in the 2008/2009 Economic Crash) those resources aren't available - the net result is a difference in deaths from Cancers deemed treatable between the actual number dead and the estimated number that would have died given the previous several years of metrics - which gives a number to the tune of 250,000.

This is not a case of Vivid imagination, it's the cold hard reality that if you don't have the means to do something, then you have to go without, and in this case the Economic recession had a Human cost that is on par with the human cost of the Pandemic.

Now I should add that a big part of that high number is likely to be due to the non-socialised health care system in the US, namely people who can't afford treatment are the ones that died - but even in countries with socialized health care there are still people that died due to restrictions in Funding because the Economy tanked.


As the saying goes ... No shit Sherlock .. ;) The self centered wankers that spread it knew they weren't tested ... but saw no issue. But ... still took the liberties that were not recommended even then.

And here is the point, if I (who am clearly not a medical professional) can see the glaring hole in the system, what does it say about those in charge?


IF .. ?? you don't know .. and don't really care .. ?? Not a relative of your's ... only one died ... so not an issue. Right .. ??

I'm not loosing any sleep over it if that's what you mean.


As I recall ... the person that spread it to the other wedding guests was "Linked to overseas travel" and was not in isolation ... as it was in the very early stages of lockdown. A few did not attend the wedding .. due to concerns of the possible pandemic issues it may cause. However ... even with basic attempts at protection (and obvious failure) ... those that attended were getting on with their lives.

Yes, but if the person who was in the at-risk group had been Quarantined properly and the Border checks had been a little bit more than a Pamphlet we would have either had a situation of:

1: No entry of the Virus into NZ as the 'linked to overseas travel' would be safe and sound in a Quarantine facility, tested, found to have the Virus and then treated
or
2: They slipped through, but all the people they came into contact with were young enough and without underlying vulnerabilities so they got sick for a couple of weeks, maybe had to go to Hospital, but they didn't die.

Both of which are perfectly acceptable to me.


Command responsibility works from the top down. Even on the front line there is the need for some command responsibility. Even with the Clipboard holder at the airport ... handing out the pamphlets.

But even they weren't taking it seriously.

And I repeat: You, Sir, prove my point for me.

[FJRider]

So, you look at the rates of Treatable Cancer in terms of total number diagnosed and total number dead and you look at each year and you plot the survival rates.

The bit I was pointing out that you missed (actually read your own posts) ... was not about treatment for cancer ... but you quoted the cause of cancer as being the stock market crash in the US. A bit of a stretch of the imagination to claim that. A Vivid imagination I would still say.







I'm not loosing any sleep over it if that's what you mean.

Par for the course ... for you. Getting on with your life I gather.




.. Yes, but

A reasonable response from all those ... "Just getting on with their lives.



... perfectly acceptable to me.

As above ...




And I repeat: You, Sir, prove my point for me.

You have yet to make one.

[TheDemonLord]

The bit I was pointing out that you missed (actually read your own posts) ... was not about treatment for cancer ... but you quoted the cause of cancer as being the stock market crash in the US. A bit of a stretch of the imagination to claim that. A Vivid imagination I would still say.


Nope.

I said it 'Cost', not Cause.

(Actually read my posts ;) )



You have yet to make one.

You've described, multiple times, a chronic failure of Leadership.

If the CEO, PM, General etc. Issues an Order/Directive/Policy and no one takes it seriously - the Fault is always with the Leadership.

[FJRider]

Nope.

I said it 'Cost', not Cause.

(Actually read my posts ;) )


Nope ... ??? :killingme: From your own post. Unedited. Post #236 in this thread.



And what is the cost of a stock market crash and devaluation? As above - the last one in the US cost 250,000 lives to Cancer alone




You've described, multiple times, a chronic failure of Leadership.


If the CEO, PM, General etc. Issues an Order/Directive/Policy and no one takes it seriously - the Fault is always with the Leadership.

Not quite ... Responsibility comes with leadership. Fault lies with those not doing the one job they were given. Be it the leaders or the lower ranked staff. Leaders need to ensure staff that CAN do the job, does the job that needs done. That is their responsibility. Not to actually DO the work. And to ensure the job is being done correctly.
And by the way ... the words Bloomfield ACTUALLY said was ...


'I've taken responsibility to make sure that the system is sorted'

which gives an entirely different meaning to the "Bloomfield has taken responsibility for the failure's of quarantine" claim by Clark.

And people wondered about Bloomfields expressions ...

Misquoting is not new. You're good at that.

[pete376403]

Sarah Dowie, Nicky Wagner, David Carter, Maggie Barry, Amy Adams, Ann Tolley and Paula Benefit - rats leaving a sinking ship? (and , apart from David Carter, does this say something about women vis-a-vis Todd Muller & National?)

[TheDemonLord]

Nope ... ??? :killingme: From your own post. Unedited. Post #236 in this thread.

See where I said 'Cost', not 'Cause', where you quoted me, unedited? Like I said?

You do know that those 2 words have different meanings. And since we are arguing semantics, Cost in this sense has a post-hoc meaning (as in it happened after the event) whereas cause has a preceeding meaning (as in it happened before, in order to precipitate the event).

I'll eagerly await your retraction.


Not quite ... Responsibility comes with leadership. Fault lies with those not doing the one job they were given. Be it the leaders or the lower ranked staff. Leaders need to ensure staff that CAN do the job, does the job that needs done. That is their responsibility. Not to actually DO the work. And to ensure the job is being done correctly.
And by the way ... the words Bloomfield ACTUALLY said was ...

which gives an entirely different meaning to the "Bloomfield has taken responsibility for the failure's of quarantine" claim by Clark.

And people wondered about Bloomfields expressions ...

Misquoting is not new. You're good at that.

Except I've not quoted Bloomfield or Clark... Can't really misquote someone without quoting them first....

What I have said is that I've observed multiple happenings that are an objective sign of a chronic failure of leadership and that there is a clear pattern emerging.

You could certainly argue that my prejudicial view of this government is clouding my judgement of the events and that should the situation be reversed, I'd be defending the Minister to keep his position.

You could also argue that I hold an unreasonable standard of behavior for the Politicians (although kinda difficult when it's the same standard I adhere to for myself, but you could make that argument)

But diminishing Command responsibility is a fools Errand and claiming I'm misquoting a Government official when I've not even quoted them in the first place is laughably misguided.

[TheDemonLord]

Sarah Dowie, Nicky Wagner, David Carter, Maggie Barry, Amy Adams, Ann Tolley and Paula Benefit - rats leaving a sinking ship? (and , apart from David Carter, does this say something about women vis-a-vis Todd Muller & National?)

Or clearing out Deadwood.... I, for one, am not sad to see the back of Paula Bennett.

[FJRider]

See where I said 'Cost', not 'Cause', where you quoted me, unedited? Like I said?

As quoted you ... Post #236 in this thread. Explain the highlighted bits please ..


And what is the cost of a stock market crash and devaluation? As above - the last one in the US cost 250,000 lives to Cancer alone



Everything else you've claimed is bullshit too ...

[TheDemonLord]

As quoted you ... Post #236 in this thread. Explain the highlighted bits please ..

Yes...

It says Cost....

Not Caused....

With the explanation being that the lack of resources caused due to a Financial Crisis meant that some people weren't able to receive the treatment they needed and thus died when compared to previous years they would have likely lived.


Everything else you've claimed is bullshit too ...

We can evaluate that when you can tell the difference between 'Cost' and 'Cause'

[FJRider]

We can evaluate that when you can tell the difference between 'Cost' and 'Cause'

I evaluate the cause as your lack of knowledge of the proper use of the English language ... what Country are you originally from .. ??

Just curious ... as I am aware ... Black lives matter and I just want to help ... :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

I evaluate the cause as your lack of knowledge of the proper use of the English language ... what Country are you originally from .. ??

And that kids, is what we call a post-hoc justification.

The problem with that claim is that you've repeatedly told people to read what I actually wrote, and now you are trying to claim that you are evaluating what I wrote based on some context that you'd previously neglected to raise.

Seems the proper use of the English language remains with her Majesties loyal Citizen - namely me.


Just curious ... as I am aware ... Black lives matter and I just want to help ... :yes:

Well, when you say that, what do you mean?

Do you mean the objective statement that individuals have an innate self-worth? Sure, I agree with that, but then the correct formulation of that idea is not 'Black Lives Matter', but rather 'All Lives Matter'.

When you say you want to help - do you think that constantly asking people to notice the differences between Races are going to make people:

A: Less Racist
or
B: More Racist

Surely the ultimate goal of the supposed 'anti-racists' is that we STOP noticing the differences between Races - I'm reminded of a little Speech once "I have a dream that one day people will be judged on the content of their character and not on the colour of their skin"

Or when you say that do you mean that you support a revolutionary Communist organization that wants to overthrow the entirety of the Western, Capitalist, Patriarchal, Racist, Blah Blah Blah SJW Buzzword Blah system?

Cause if you do - then take a good long look at CHAZ/CHOP, for the relative population size, the BLM protesters have managed to murder more BAME people in 2 weeks than the Seattle PD managed in a Year - So ask yourself: Do their words or their actions speak loudest to you?

[Katman]

Seems the proper use of the English language remains with her Majesties loyal Citizen - namely me.

Trust me, yours is no better than his - if your twisting of Sadiq Khan's words are anything to go by.

[TheDemonLord]

Trust me, yours is no better than his - if your twisting of Sadiq Khan's words are anything to go by.

Except I've given a context as to why I don't buy that his comment was made under the guise that we must be vigilant, pointing to past decisions that contradict that interpretation and reinforce the fatalist interpretation.

Not only that, but from his own Website, there are many, with commands of the English Language far greater than You or I, that also took that interpretation.

That's the difference.

[Katman]

Not only that, but from his own Website, there are many, with commands of the English Language far greater than You or I, that also took that interpretation.

How about giving us some examples then - just so we can see whether their agenda matches yours.

[TheDemonLord]

How about giving us some examples then - just so we can see whether their agenda matches yours.

Knife Crime for starters - in particular his refusal to maintain a policy that has a demonstrable reduction in the amount of Knife Crime, because it clashes with his Social Justice Ideals.

Apologia for BLM rioters - calling them peaceful protestors, whilst simultaneously not targeting the criminals who are desecrating the Cenotaph.

His support of 'Climate and social justice' - regardless of the consequences.

His support of the Remain campaign - despite the referendum and the Conservative victory.


All this comes back to one key point, which is ubiquitous amongst far-left Groups: Utopia is only ever one more murder away.

Or to be specific: If you have to suffer, so that Sadiq get's his perfect vision, then so be it - you have to get used to Terrorism being part and parcel of a modern City.

[Katman]

Knife Crime for starters - in particular his refusal to maintain a policy that has a demonstrable reduction in the amount of Knife Crime, because it clashes with his Social Justice Ideals.

Apologia for BLM rioters - calling them peaceful protestors, whilst simultaneously not targeting the criminals who are desecrating the Cenotaph.

His support of 'Climate and social justice' - regardless of the consequences.

His support of the Remain campaign - despite the referendum and the Conservative victory.

But that's not what I asked.

You quite clearly stated "there are many, with commands of the English language far greater than you or I, that also took that interpretation".

So who are these 'many'?

I'd like to see if their agenda match yours.



All this comes back to one key point, which is ubiquitous amongst far-left Groups: Utopia is only ever one more murder away.

Or to be specific: If you have to suffer, so that Sadiq get's his perfect vision, then so be it - you have to get used to Terrorism being part and parcel of a modern City.

And there you go again - making shit up.

[TheDemonLord]

But that's not what I asked.

You quite clearly stated "there are many, with commands of the English language far greater than you or I, that also took that interpretation".

So who are these 'many'?

I'd like to see if their agenda match yours.

For starters, see the Mayoral website.

There are libertarian commentators, Right-wing commentators, Working Class traditional Labour voters.

You could say that their Agenda that matches is being against the rise of Social Justice.


And there you go again - making shit up.

I present to you CHAZ/CHOP - in 2 weeks went through all the stages of Communism - no need to make shit up, it's there, happening right now.

[Katman]

For starters, see the Mayoral website.

There are libertarian commentators, Right-wing commentators, Working Class traditional Labour voters.

You could say that their Agenda that matches is being against the rise of Social Justice.

Then you should be able to give us any number of examples.


I present to you CHAZ/CHOP - in 2 weeks went through all the stages of Communism - no need to make shit up, it's there, happening right now.

Now I know Sadiq Khan is all for diversity and supporting minority groups but could you show me where he specifically supports the CHAZ/CHOP movement?

[TheDemonLord]

Then you should be able to give us any number of examples.

There's the above from the Mayorall website, where it's a question from a council member.

Libertarians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i_WS9CJ7tI

(about 6 minutes in to where it's referenced as part of a much wider point - namely the Context I referred to)

Right wingers - That would be the God Emperors Son: Donald Trump Jr.

As above, all of them seem to have a disagreement with Woke culture - I think 3 is good enough to prove the over-arching point.


Now I know Sadiq Khan is all for diversity and supporting minority groups but could you show me where he specifically supports the CHAZ/CHOP movement?

His support of Black Lives Matter.

[Katman]

His support of Black Lives Matter.

But black lives do matter. (Leaving out the fact that supporting Black Lives Matter isn't actually specifically endorsing CHAZ/CHOP).

Not any more than any other lives - but they certainly do matter.

Or do you disagree?

(Or deep down, are you just upset that he allowed a baby Trump balloon to fly over the streets of London?)

[Bonez]

Katman you are starting to sound like pritch. Full of poo poo.

[TheDemonLord]

But black lives do matter.


Not any more than any other lives - but they certainly do matter.

So the correct formulation of that would be 'All Lives Matter' - you might want to have a chat with some of the BLM Protestors - They'll happily tell you that "NO! Only Black Lives Matter!" - which kinda betrays the underpinnings of the movement.


(Leaving out the fact that supporting Black Lives Matter isn't actually specifically endorsing CHAZ/CHOP).

Actually, it is.

On two deep, philosophical counts.

The first is this: https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

"We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories."

Which is exactly what CHAZ/CHOP was - Started off as a glorious revolution when the oppressive Police were ousted and now they can live in Utopia - only took 1 week for a Dictator to rise and another week for armed Vigilantes/Death Squads to roam the streets, killing kids.

Let me be perfectly clear, regardless of whether you are aware of the ideological underpinnings (and since we are talking about Sadiq Khan, I'm assuming a degree of understanding of politics on his behalf), Support for BLM is support for a Revolutionary Communist ideology. The same Ideology that both Spawned and subsequently destroyed CHAZ/CHOP

The Second is this: The call from BLM is the complete defunding and removal of the Police - Which is what they did in CHAZ/CHOP - and what happened? Crimes went up for a start (no shit Sherlock), but then what happened? In the abscence of the Police, the Brutal and the Powerful took upon the Mantle of enforcement for themselves without the safeguards that a modern society puts around organisations like the Police and Military and in a week shot 7 people, killing 2 - not to mention all the random beatings, rapes etc. etc. that happened.


Or do you disagree?

I agree that All Lives Matter...

I can agree that there are conversations about the usage of Force by the Police that are continually needed, I can agree that the Police could do with more Training, I can agree that we need to look at ways to ensure that Officers who are outside of acceptable limits aren't protected by Unions and their Peers, I can agree that we need to look at ways to ensure that Officers don't become Jaded or that Profiling doesn't become overt.

These are grievances that could and should be looked at, discussed, argued about etc.

Perhaps though, the most interesting fact is that for every 10,000 arrests - 4 White people are killed by the US police and 3 Black people are killed.

Now, even though over 80% of those people killed were armed - let's assume that each one is a Travesty, the above stat shows that the US Police force isn't fundamentally racist.

Then let's talk about the biggest threat to Black lives - it's not the 'White Man', it's not the 'Police', hell, it's not even an old Racist cop who is notorious for being heavy handed who probably still exists in some Police Department somewhere.

The biggest killer of Young Black men, is other Young Black Men.

The current wave of BLM protests have killed more Black Men than the original incident, it's destroyed Black Businesses and Black Communities.

Do their Black Lives Matter? Not, it would seem, to BLM.




(Or deep down, are you just upset that he allowed a baby Trump balloon to fly over the streets of London?)

You tell me: Have I ever blocked anyone on here? Have I ever called for your censorship? Have I not defended people I find intolerable upon points of principals that upholding of their rights is the protection of my own?

Honestly - I hope they fly 1,000 baby Trump balloons - the wailing and petty gnashing of teeth is only going to galvanize Trump's existing voter base and convinces the swing voter of the insanity in the current Left Wing, leaving them to either vote for Trump or protest vote in exasperation - thus ensuring the re-election.

[Katman]

I agree that All Lives Matter...

Unless they're Iraqi children caught up in sanctions that they had no part in causing - according to you.

[TheDemonLord]

Unless they're Iraqi children caught up in sanctions that they had no part in causing - according to you.

Were it within my power to snap my fingers, fixing all the misery and suffering in the world, I would, but alas, I cannot.

Were it the case that Evil Dictators with a penchant for Torture, using Chemical Weapons on their own people, extrajudicial killings could be brought to justice with ne'er an innocent bystander hurt, then I would make it so, but alas, I also, cannot.

Sometimes, to exorcise a greater evil, innocent people have to suffer and die, the question then becomes - how do we know what is the greater Evil - and given how certain events played out, I sleep soundly at night.

[Katman]

….I sleep soundly at night.

I'm sure those 500,000 children would have loved to have the opportunity of hearing you say that.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm sure those 500,000 children would have loved to have the opportunity of hearing you say that.

Whereas you'd stand idly by whilst they were being tortured and gassed, for fear of getting your hands dirty.

Oh. So. Virtuous.

[husaberg]

Simply saying we fucked up but will fix it doesn't make it go away or let anyone off the hook for the fuck up. Since they were elected (by Winston Peters) Labour have had a so far never ending string of failures, blunders and fuck ups. The tooth monster has shown she is good at managing difficult situations but as far as running a country goes it has been a colossal failure. The way her luck has been running I wouldn't be surprised to see some other catastrophe just before voting time that will help all the dumb shits forget just how useless her and her party of muppets have been.

New covid 19 cases in the US climbed to an all-time high of more than 50,000 overnight meaning the nation has now smashed its seven-day average for infections.
not only that The infection curve is now rising in 40 out of 50 states.

US unemployment rate rate is 11.1 percent. But new data also released by the Labor Department showed that 1.4 million people filed unemployment claims for the first time last week, marking the 15th straight week of claims that exceeded 1 million.
Conversely The New Zealand unemployment rate to 6.3 per cent.

346338
Ps how are you getting on with those claims of what you alleged clinton said.........

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131164229#post1131164229

That’s not true. I remember her trying to say she slipped.

I watched it live. I remember it like it was yesterday. A few minutes after it happened one of her minions, in a live interview, said she slipped. So you can stick your specific search up your arse.

I don't see or feel the need to answer to a total dickhead like you.

Unless you simply f-ed it up and dont want to simply say it...........:whistle:

[jasonu]

New covid 19 cases in the US climbed to an all-time high of more than 50,000 overnight meaning the nation has now smashed its seven-day average for infections.
not only that The infection curve is now rising in 40 out of 50 states.

US unemployment rate rate is 11.1 percent. But new data also released by the Labor Department showed that 1.4 million people filed unemployment claims for the first time last week, marking the 15th straight week of claims that exceeded 1 million.
Conversely The New Zealand unemployment rate to 6.3 per cent.

346338
Ps how are you getting on with those claims of what you alleged clinton said.........

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131164229#post1131164229




Unless you simply f-ed it up and dont want to simply say it...........:whistle:

Why do you find it necessary to be a total dickhead ALL the time?

[husaberg]

Why is jasonu a total dickhead ALL the time?

it's a good question, but seeing as you have been again caught in an epic example of total hypocrisy, i doubt we will get an answer.
Here is a clue, that might help you in the future.
Before you go on the internet and moan about New Zealands goverments handling of a pandemic the government itself or the personal accountability of others.
Make sure you yourself dont live in a cesspit of ineptitude that is handling covid 19 in a totally stupid manner and make sure you fess up to your own clear mistakes.
Lets be clear here. The USA under trump is the laughing stock of the world.
Your own inability to admit mistakes, plus the joke that is, both your countries and your presidents handling of Covid 19. Would embarrass anyone with a basic level of intelligence..
Yet its clear, you remain oblivious to this.

Ps how are you getting on with those claims of what you alleged clinton said.........or were they just like karens claims of anything.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131164229#post1131164229

[Bonez]

it's a good question, but seeing as you have been again caught in an epic example of total hypocrisy, i doubt we will get an answer.
Here is a clue, that might help you in the future.
Before you go on the internet and moan about New Zealands handling of a pandemic government or the personal accountability of others.
Make sure you yourself dont live in a cesspit of ineptitude that is handling covid 19 in a totally stupid manner and fess up to your own clear mistakes.
Lets be clear here. The USA under trump is the laughing stock of the world.
Your own inability to admit mistakes and the joke that is, both your countries and your presidents handling of Covid 19. Would embarrass anyone with a basic level of intelligence..
Yet its clear you remain oblivious to this.

Ps how are you getting on with those claims of what you alleged clinton said.........or were they just like karens claims of anything.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131164229#post1131164229
Oh the irony is great with this one. Husaberk you apparently have no clue what the meaning of hypocrisy is.

[jasonu]

it's a good question, but seeing as you have been again caught in an epic example of total hypocrisy, i doubt we will get an answer.
Here is a clue, that might help you in the future.
Before you go on the internet and moan about New Zealands goverments handling of a pandemic the government itself or the personal accountability of others.
Make sure you yourself dont live in a cesspit of ineptitude that is handling covid 19 in a totally stupid manner and make sure you fess up to your own clear mistakes.
Lets be clear here. The USA under trump is the laughing stock of the world.
Your own inability to admit mistakes, plus the joke that is, both your countries and your presidents handling of Covid 19. Would embarrass anyone with a basic level of intelligence..
Yet its clear, you remain oblivious to this.

Ps how are you getting on with those claims of what you alleged clinton said.........or were they just like karens claims of anything.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131164229#post1131164229

Kindly refer to post 301

[husaberg]

Kindly refer to post 301
Bravo the same troll answer that Karen gives so often when cornered.
So firstly you made a series of claims about a political figure that you said was widely reported on the news, but when questioned, even after a week you still have no evidence to support it. yet refuse to admit your claim might not have any substance.
You also make a series of unsubstantiated claims that NZ didn't handle covid 19 well and expect accountability for all those involved.
Yet when shown clear evidence how clearly crap your own counties situation is you want to avoid any questions as to why your own country you reside in clearly has handled covid 19 far worse than almost any country in the first world.
346360
You then don't wish to discuss accountability for your own countries clearly grossly inept handling of it.
Some would suggest that's highly american of you.

[Katman]

Dirty politics all over again.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/national-mp-hamish-walker-admits-leaking-covid-19-patient-details/ar-BB16q0uY?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

[Viking01]

Post removed

[Katman]

So Todd Muller has resigned as leader.

Could National be in any more disarray?

[Naki Rat]

So Todd Muller has resigned as leader.

Could National be in any more disarray?How about appointing Nix Myth as leader? He can spin industrial strength bullshit so a shoe in for the job. :2thumbsup

[rastuscat]

So Todd Muller has resigned as leader.

Could National be in any more disarray?

Yes, wondered that myself. I'm now waiting to see if there is anyone I'm interested enough to support this year.

I do note they have run around promising massive infrastructure projects in the event they get elected. Not too much chance of that now.

[Oakie]

So Todd Muller has resigned as leader.

Could National be in any more disarray?

Just remember what Labour was like 9 weeks before the last election...

[husaberg]

Just remember what Labour was like 9 weeks before the last election...

Only problem then was the incumbent PM and national leader then was Bill English whereas the incumbent now is the most popular PM in a 100 years.
i have never seen a billboard saying Bring back bill.........

Todd was given a hospital pass that's why all the others never put their hands up.
But he mislead the press and he was called on it. He is probably a decent bloke ,who would have done okay in other circumstances. but he's beyond beige
National is and has been for years in disarray and full of idiots and Their dirty tactics of the last two decades are now catching up on them.
Crushers skeletons will see her torn to shreds, they need someone clean.
They have Luxton post election and he carries no baggage, but it will be interesting who puts their hands up for this one.




Todd Muller resigns as Leader of the Opposition

I have taken time over the weekend to reflect on my experience over the last several weeks as Leader of the Opposition.

It has become clear to me that I am not the best person to be Leader of the Opposition and Leader of the New Zealand National Party at this critical time for New Zealand.

It is more important than ever that the New Zealand National Party has a leader who is comfortable in the role.

The role has taken a heavy toll on me personally, and on my family, and this has become untenable from a health perspective.
For that reason I will be stepping down as Leader effective immediately.
I intend to take some time out of the spotlight to spend with family and restore my energy before reconnecting with my community.
I look forward to continuing to serve as a loyal member of the National Party team and Member of Parliament for Bay of Plenty.

[JimO]

whereas the incumbent now is the most popular PM in a 100 years.

only with people who believe in fairy dust and head nods.

what about all last elections promises/bribes whats the princess delivered ?

[husaberg]

only with people who believe in fairy dust and head nods.

My opinion is based on the results of polls, as below. Exactly what is your opinion based on.....
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-s-most-popular-pm-in-a-century-poll-shows
https://www.britishherald.com/ardern-named-new-zealands-most-popular-pm-in-100-years/

[FJRider]

My opinion is based on the results of poles,

I thought as much ... was it a power pole or a telephone pole that did the damage to your thinking ... ??? :shifty:

Various Polls get taken each year .... obviously they (by your own admission) never influenced your opinions .... :shifty:

[JimO]

My opinion is based on the results of poles, as below. Exactly what is your opinion based on.....

my opinion is based on the fact she is useless

[husaberg]

my opinion is based on the fact she is useless

Only that wasn't what you claimed though.
Your post was in reply to my claim that she was polled at the post popular PM in the last 100 years

i can and was able to substantiate my claim with actual poll results that clearly showed this

Only problem then was the incumbent PM and national leader then was Bill English whereas the incumbent now is the most popular PM in a 100 years.
i.


only with people who believe in fairy dust and head nods.


So again what information do you have that shows its untrue that she is not the most popular PM in a 100 Years, rathher than your own opinion that she is useless?
Do you realise that public opinion of her popularity is not your own opinion of her usefulness?
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-s-most-popular-pm-in-a-century-poll-shows
https://www.britishherald.com/ardern-named-new-zealands-most-popular-pm-in-100-years/

[FJRider]

Only that wasn't what you claimed though.
You post was to my claim that she was polled at the post popular PM in the last 100 years

Popularity wins elections. Popular idiots/con-artists don't last long. And getting what you wished (or voted) for doesn't always work out.


i can and was able to substantiate my claim with actual poll results that clearly show this

Hitler was the most popular leaders of his decade. It didn't work out that well for him.


So again what information do you have that this is untrue other than our own opinion?


DITTO ...

[pete376403]

So Collins is it - a very polarising figure. hard core National voters will will be thrilled, the rest maybe not so. Wonder if she will drop the unearned nickname - she never had anything crushed.

[husaberg]

So Collins is it - a very polarising figure. hard core National voters will will be thrilled, the rest maybe not so. Wonder if she will drop the unearned nickname - she never had anything crushed.

i heard she crushed the head of a Maui dolphin with her thighs........great pick though inspired , no dubious business links skeletons in her closet to worry about:laugh:
third leader in 33 days or 5th leader in under 3.7 years

Jon Key resigned 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 1 year, 77 days
Simon Bridges 2 years, 85 days
Todd Muller 53 days
Judith Collins 0 days

[TheDemonLord]

i heard she crushed the head of a Maui dolphin with her thighs

Imagine if a National voter said something similar about the current 'Dear Leader' - I remember the furore and the accusations of sexism when the moniker of 'Tooth Fairy' was bandied about.

As for Collins - not my preferred pick.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Backward looking, neshnul default setting, white, "born to rule". No. Just no. Not OK Boomers.

Incidentally if anyone wants to use "Not OK Boomers" as a band name, I'm good with it.

[Laava]

Can I have Neshnul Default Setting for my band?

[Berries]

I'd tap it.

[pete376403]

I'd tap it.

With Collins history (think Orivida) and Brownlees "success" with the Christchurch rebuild, if these were the best the national caucus could come up with then the talent pool must have been pretty shallow. As far as "tapping it" gpes, she does look semi-ok - when standing next to Brownlee.

[nerrrd]

That whole 'most popular choice for prime minister' poll is a crock, whoever is Prime Minister at the time always wins it by a country mile. I'll wager no leader of a party not in government has ever beaten the incumbent in that particular poll.

As for Judith saying 'we won't raise taxes', I'm not buying it. National put GST up in the last economic crisis, this one is an order of magnitude worse.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Electoral success is arguably about getting your message across (Trump did do this very effectively, Johnson wanted to get Brexit done, etc etc)
Jacinda Ardern is an excellent communicator, you do not have to like or agree with her politics to see that, Judith Collins was big enough to acknowledge that.
With Muller at the tiller, National were not going to do so well, now that Collins is in charge the game has changed significantly. Again, leaving the actual politics aside, Collins knows how to speak effectively and clearly, she knows her policies and the rationale behind them.
There might actually be a contest now in this election, at least between the main contenders.

I listened to a bit of the press conference where the caucus decision was announced and a couple of things stood out for me.

I find it hilarious when MPs want to be seen on stage with their leader in the fun times and when the leader is taking heat, they are often alone
Collins is in charge and is an accomplished performer.
Gerry Brownlee does not inspire any notion of a party looking to move the country forward. (see Tom Sainsbury's parody of Collins making an announcement)
Collins is correct, Ardern has a handful of ministers/MPs she can count on, she said 3, I reckon 5, still thin pickings. Ardern is an excellent leader but you need a good team to deliver.
I do not think "Team National" is nearly as good as Collins is claiming so if either party takes the reins be prepared to be disappointed again.



I know its all part of the theatre which is politics but my blood boils when politicians talk about electoral success in terms of "getting rid of the other lot", "winning it back", "taking it back" etc etc
You, me, everyone in this country is "it". "it" is not some commodity to be bandied around and bargained for. Leading the country is a privilege and a great responsibility, it should entail making decisions for good of all the citizens of the country, not setting policy to spite or undo the efforts of other governments or parties.
I find it interesting that "beating the other lot" was talked about more than working for the good of the country. I find it interesting that the discussion was about the country being in the worst economic position in history, rather than New Zealand being in a position where our public health status allows our domestic economy to be in a state of relative normality unlike most of the western world which is still going in circles. The entire world is taking a hit because of COVID-19, noone could have prevented that. Arguably NZ will be first out of the gates to bounce back from that, the public health policy of the current government has created that opportunity.
Insights into the priorities of Ms Collins and her political colleagues I would suggest.

[husaberg]

That whole 'most popular choice for prime minister' poll is a crock, whoever is Prime Minister at the time always wins it by a country mile. I'll wager no leader of a party not in government has ever beaten the incumbent in that particular poll.

As for Judith saying 'we won't raise taxes', I'm not buying it. National put GST up in the last economic crisis, this one is an order of magnitude worse.

Not entirely true, i remember when winnie Peters was the preferred PM for ages when he was a National MP and Bolger was actually the PM

Peters soon found that contradicting his party only bolstered the public's perception of him - particularly a public fed up with both Labour and National. In the next preferred PM poll Peters was ahead of both Lange and Bolger at 19 per cent
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97547465/a-brief-history-of-winston-raymond-peters


Also English was the then PM was rated lower as preferred PM that Ardern when she was in Opposition.

Labour leader Jacinda Ardern also leads the preferred Prime Minister poll, rising 4 points to 34 per cent. National leader Bill English rose three points to 33 per cent.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11914816
she also rated higher earlier than her own leader prior (little )and of course chrusher rated higher than bridges.
Clark rated higher than PM Shipley did on occasions while Shipley was PM
Mudoon outpolled Rowling while Rowling was in office as PM etc etc etc.

As for taxs i wouldn't trust either party either.
The pension age has to go up and no one has the guts to do it as the other will claim they wouldnt do it or needed to be done when both aggree it should same as the CGT

[Murray]

third leader in 33 days


How did you work this one out?

[husaberg]

How did you work this one out?

By hitting a 3 instead of a 5 i guess.
So apologies to all those blue voters .....its the 3rd leader in 53 days rather than 33 so yeah... go nasuanale..... what a steady ship they sail.....

I just double checked Collins is the same age as Aderns Mum......... So she at least should last until the election one would hope.............
The choosing of Collins will be certain to raise a few eyebrows at least

https://liberation.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d75d69e201b7c7f6dc0d970b-800wihttps://thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Judith-Collins-joker.jpg

[FJRider]

How did you work this one out?

He couldn't have worked it out by himself ... he hasn't that many fingers ... :shifty:

[nerrrd]

Not entirely true...

I was hoping somebody would do some research for me, ta.

As far as Winston goes though, the way I read that article he was ahead of Bolger in '88 while they were still in opposition.

Poor Bill though, John Key really dropped him in it there. He's got to be the unluckiest National politician in history. Wonder how the polling would have gone if Key had hung around to take on Jacinda.

[husaberg]

I was hoping somebody would do some research for me, ta.

As far as Winston goes though, the way I read that article he was ahead of Bolger in '88 while they were still in opposition.

Poor Bill though, John Key really dropped him in it there. He's got to be the unluckiest National politician in history. Wonder how the polling would have gone if Key had hung around to take on Jacinda.


Peter no he was the prefered PM for years he went ahead of bolger in 88 and stayed that way. the election in NZ in 1988 was July

His story on the bribery shifted: First it was a phone call, then it was a dinner. He named names - many of them - but always inside Parliament, meaning he couldn't be sued for defamation. These attacks saw him leap up to 23 per cent in the polls - again the most popular politician in the country.
Unsurprisingly, his party was less enamoured. In October of 1992, Cliffe moved that successful motion to expel him from caucus meetings. This saw his polls rise even further to 28 per cent.
As for Bill English losing two elections i dont think was purely luck i am sure talent played a big part in that.

[nerrrd]

Peter no he was the prefered PM for years he went ahead of bolger in 88 and stayed that way. the election in NZ in 1988 was July.

Umm I don't think Google agrees with you on that point.

[FJRider]

Umm I don't think Google agrees with you on that point.

You are right ... from Wiki ..


The 1987 New Zealand general election was a nationwide vote to determine the shape of the 42nd sitting of the New Zealand Parliament. The governing New Zealand Labour Party, led by Prime Minister David Lange, was re-elected for a second term, although the Opposition National Party made gains. The election also saw the elimination of the Democratic Party (formerly the Social Credit Party) from Parliament, leaving Labour and National as the only parties represented.




However .... on 12 July 1988, following a petition to the Electoral Court, Wyatt Creech of the National Party was declared elected by a margin of 34 votes.

[Katman]

Umm I don't think Google agrees with you on that point.

Oh no, now you've gone and done it.

[pete376403]

Sarah Dowie, Nicky Wagner, David Carter, Maggie Barry, Amy Adams, Ann Tolley and Paula Benefit and now Nikki Kaye. Will there be anyone left by the time election day rolls around? Michael Woodlouse might get his preferred shadow portfolio back simply by virtue of no-one else available.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

[husaberg]

Umm I don't think Google agrees with you on that point.

er..thats likely because i was wrong with the year
but as the election was the year before clearly so were you with the statement then whicch was the original post?
That whole 'most popular choice for prime minister' poll is a crock, whoever is Prime Minister at the time always wins it by a country mile.
Winnie was not the PM but was the most popular choice as preferred PM.

[nerrrd]

er..thats likely because i was wrong with the year
but as the election was the year before clearly so were you with the statement then whicch was the original post?
That whole 'most popular choice for prime minister' poll is a crock, whoever is Prime Minister at the time always wins it by a country mile.
Winnie was not the PM but was the most popular choice as preferred PM.

Sure except David Lange was PM from 1984 to 1989, so kudos to Winston for beating Bolger, but he wasn't the Prime Minister at the time, just leader of the Nats. Bolger didn't get to be PM till 1990.

It was something of a sweeping generalisation based on precisely zero hours of research on my part.

[Berries]

Will there be anyone left by the time election day rolls around?
Bridges for PM.

[Katman]

er..thats likely because i was wrong

What, again?

[husaberg]

Sure except David Lange was PM from 1984 to 1989, so kudos to Winston for beating Bolger, but he wasn't the Prime Minister at the time, just leader of the Nats. Bolger didn't get to be PM till 1990.

It was something of a sweeping generalisation based on precisely zero hours of research on my part.
Except most popular polititon included Lange.
He not only was beat bolger. He beat Lange as well.


That whole 'most popular choice for prime minister' poll is a crock, whoever is Prime Minister at the time always wins it by a country mile. I'll wager no leader of a party not in government has ever beaten the incumbent in that particular poll.
.
It was a sweeping generalisation?, you didnt say mostly or most of the time you said "always" so its not really generalisation its much more of an an absolute statement.
to back out now ans say oh it was only a generalisation is not really a true account of what you posted or what is the actual facts.
As muldoon was preferred over Rowling whilst Rowling was PM , Moore polled ahead of Bolger in when Labour was in opposition, Peters was prefered over bolger when both lange and Bolger was PM , Clark polled ahead of shipley prior to the election Key was preferred in at least one poll over Clark in 2007 English polled lower than Adern when he was PM. etc etc etc.
You are not generally correct either, you are generally and genuinely wrong.

[FJRider]

Except most popular polititon included lange.
He not only was beat bolger. He beat lange as well.
It was a sweeping generalisation but one that was wrong with muldoon was prefered over rowling, peters with bolger, english and adern.

Are you getting exited (again) or are you just drunk ... again ... ???

Or is English your second/third language ... ??

Most "Preferred" MP for PM IS a crock of shit. At best it's an ego boost for the named MP.

Peters is the most popular Mp that was (will ??) (n)ever be a PM.

Winning popularity polls is one thing ... winning elections is another.

[nerrrd]

Except most popular polititon included Lange.
He not only was beat bolger. He beat Lange as well.

So Peters was beating Lange in the preferred PM stakes in '87? Wow.


It was a sweeping generalisation?, you didnt say mostly or most of the time you said "always" so its not really generalisation its much more of an an absolute statement.
to back out now ans say oh it was only a generalisation is not really a true account of what you posted or what is the actual facts.
As muldoon was preferred over Rowling whilst Rowling was PM , Moore polled ahead of Bolger in when Labour was in opposition, Peters was prefered over bolger when both lange and Bolger was PM , Clark polled ahead of shipley prior to the election Key was preferred in at least one poll over Clark in 2007 English polled lower than Adern when he was PM. etc etc etc.

Interesting that Rowling, Shipley and English were all caretaker PMs too.


You are not generally correct either, you are generally and genuinely wrong.

OK. Wonder if I'll be wrong this time too.

[husaberg]

Interesting that Rowling, Shipley and English were all caretaker PMs too.
.

As was Moore.
Lange and Bolger where also both rolled by their own party during their terms, likely on account of their fading popularity.
buts it's all mute, as that clearly not the situation were are now in atm
Ardern is the most popular PM in a Hundred years and Chrusher ,whilst more popular than Bridges ,Is about as popular as a turd in a goldfish bowl
Chrusher is not trusted by the masses either or sen as being great even by her own party as shes a 4 times loser on the leadership stakes
If national wanted to make a new start wheeling out old crusha isnt exactly the best way to start fresh
It looks more like damage control prior to a fresh start after the election with "the great blue hope" Luxton.
A man with no political history but no political baggage either.

PS i never said 87 you plucked that one from thin air
But the Preferred PMs who were neither PM or Opposition leader.
IN between at various times 1984 to 1988 it was Muldoon.
From mid 1988 to 1993 at various times it was Winston Peters.
From 1994 and 1995 it was Jim Anderton.
Lastly it was Peters again in 1996.

it was never Crusher or Bridges or Muller or any other current member of the National party.

http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/entire-caucus-continues-to-follow-judith-collins-everywhere-as-she-struggles-to-undo-mind-control-spell/

[JimO]

As was Moore.

Ardern is the most popular PM in a Hundred years

/ (http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/entire-caucus-continues-to-follow-judith-collins-everywhere-as-she-struggles-to-undo-mind-control-spell/)
wow a hundred years? how do you know that? why not 105 years or 96 years or are you really as big a fuckwit as you come across on here?

[Katman]

….or are you really as big a fuckwit as you come across on here?

Hmmm, that's a tough one. :scratch:

What was the first option again?

[husaberg]

Jacinda Ardern is the most popular New Zealand PM in more than a CENTURY after leading country through the Christchurch mosque massacre, White Island eruption and coronavirus pandemic
Jacinda Ardern scored 59.5 per cent as NZ's preferred leader in the latest poll
It's the highest score for any leader in the history of Newshub-Reid Research poll
Ms Ardern's Labour also jumped to 56.5 per cent- the highest party score ever
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8334555/Jacinda-Ardern-popular-New-Zealand-PM-100-years-leading-pandemic.html



Jacinda Ardern became New Zealand’s most popular prime minister in a century, a Newshub-Reid Research poll showed on Monday, thanks to her COVID-19 response that made the country among the most successful in curbing the spread of the diseaseThe first public poll since the coronavirus crisis took hold showed popularity for Ardern’s Labour jumped 14 points to 56.5% – the highest for any party ever.
Conversely, the biggest party in parliament – the Nationals, slumped to 30.6%, after sliding by 12.7 points.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-politics-poll/ardern-becomes-new-zealands-most-popular-pm-in-a-century-poll-idUSKBN22U0PI


Ardern most popular PM in a century; National plummets
https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/ardern-most-popular-pm-century-national-plummets


Only problem then was the incumbent PM and national leader then was Bill English whereas the incumbent now is the most popular PM in a 100 years..

only with people who believe in fairy dust and head nods.

My opinion is based on the results of polls, as below. Exactly what is your opinion based on.....
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-s-most-popular-pm-in-a-century-poll-shows
https://www.britishherald.com/ardern-named-new-zealands-most-popular-pm-in-100-years/

my opinion is based on the fact she is useless


wow a hundred years? how do you know that? why not 105 years or 96 years or are you really as big a fuckwit as you come across on here?
Lets see you are the guy that claims your opinions are facts and when challenged instead of being able to substantiate your claims, you instead give out abuse and run off and hide.
Perversely it seems for reasons of narcissism think of it as a win anyway.
There is a name for that, its called steving.

ps i am genuinely sorry your preferred political party is disintegrating, also for your obvious buthurt feelings, as it clearly upsets you.
I suspect they will do better if they get a leader who never belonged to the party in the last 40 years. rather than trotting out a tired old battleax with a dubious past of financial dealing and leaked information.
Clearly the best way to save the party is to get people from outside the party to lead it.;)

[TheDemonLord]

Lets see you are the guy that claims your opinions are facts and when challenged instead of being able to substantiate your claims, you instead give out abuse and run off and hide.
Perversely it seems for reasons of narcissism think of it as a win anyway.
There is a name for that, its called steving.

ps i am genuinely sorry your preferred political party is disintegrating, also for your obvious buthurt feelings, as it clearly upsets you.
I suspect they will do better if they get a leader who never belonged to the party in the last 40 years. rather than trotting out a tired old battleax with a dubious past of financial dealing and leaked information.
Clearly the best way to save the party is to get people from outside the party to lead it.;)

You should take a peak at what happened in the US and in Britain, NZ is normally 5-10 years behind.

[FJRider]

... Ardern is the most popular PM in a Hundred years and Chrusher ,whilst more popular than Bridges ,Is about as popular as a turd in a goldfish bowl


As far as Shipley goes ... she's still a legend for getting the better of Winston Peters ... whom she sacked from her cabinet in 1998.

She did lower the drinking age to 18 which made herself popular in some sectors. Never mind the whole first women PM thing ... (elected or not). Not a bad effort for a "Caretaker" PM ...


But the most popular PM was Michael Joseph Savage, 1935-1940. For decades ... portraits of him hung in thousands of homes. When he died ... 50,000 mourners filed past his casket. Have you got a portrait of Jacinda on your wall .. ????

And it's been 80 years since his death.

Your "Most popular PM in 100 years" ... seems a little dramatic wouldn't you say ... ??


For a bit of light reading ... a rather funny (and blunt) explanation and description of the Prime Minister popularity stakes in NZ politics.

Read it ... you might learn something.


https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/7xvz5a/a-definitive-ranking-of-nz-prime-ministers-from-lamest-to-coolest

[FJRider]

Lets see you are the guy that claims your opinions are facts and when challenged instead of being able to substantiate your claims, you instead give out abuse and run off and hide.
Perversely it seems for reasons of narcissism think of it as a win anyway.
There is a name for that, its called steving.



You are are hardly in a position to accuse anybody of that ... considering your past history of doing EXACTLY that ... :killingme:

[FJRider]

wow a hundred years? how do you know that? why not 105 years or 96 years or are you really as big a fuckwit as you come across on here?

Actually it was only 80 years.

But whats 20 years ... give or take .. ??

[Katman]

Read it ... you might learn something.


https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/7xvz5a/a-definitive-ranking-of-nz-prime-ministers-from-lamest-to-coolest

To be fair, the article was written prior to JA being elected Prime Minister.

[TheDemonLord]

To be fair, the article was written prior to JA being elected Prime Minister.

And it's from Vice - so the fact that 4 out of the top 5 just so happen to be Labour Prime Ministers, is of course, no co-incidence....

[Katman]

And it's from Vice - so the fact that 4 out of the top 5 just so happen to be Labour Prime Ministers, is of course, no co-incidence....

From what I remember of Prime Ministers during my lifetime, the article is fairly close to the money though.

And while not from my lifetime, I distinctly reminder (the Berk will love that one) the portrait of Michael Joseph Savage hanging on my Grandparents wall right up into the 1980s.

I doubt any other Prime Minister has come close to that level of admiration.

[TheDemonLord]

From what I remember of Prime Ministers during my lifetime, the article is fairly close to the money though.

And while not from my lifetime, I distinctly reminder (the Berk will love that one) the portrait of Michael Joseph Savage hanging on my Grandparents wall right up into the '80s.

I doubt any other Prime Minister has come close to that level of admiration.

I admittedly read up on him - 2 things that jumped out at me:

1: Dying in Office
2: Was the PM for the start of WW2

Those 2 things alone are grounds to be remembered exceedingly fondly.

As for the ranking in the Article - There's a few that I'd disagree with - William Massey and Richard Seddon for example.

[FJRider]

To be fair, the article was written prior to JA being elected Prime Minister.

To be fair ... I never stated otherwise. And ... I did point out it was 80 years (not 100) since Savage's death.

[Swoop]

Well, the PR stunt of a wedding for the leader of the labour party is "postponed"...

Wouldn't have anything to do with a certain shag with the nanny, perhaps? (Better put "allegedly" here I guess)

[ellipsis]

Well, the PR stunt of a wedding for the leader of the labour party is "postponed"...

Wouldn't have anything to do with a certain shag with the nanny, perhaps? (Better put "allegedly" here I guess)


...beats me where they have the time to keep goats...

[Katman]

Well, the PR stunt of a wedding for the leader of the labour party is "postponed"...

Wouldn't have anything to do with a certain shag with the nanny, perhaps? (Better put "allegedly" here I guess)

Has Judith appointed you as head of her Dirty Politics campaign?

[husaberg]

Maybe someone should ask why Judith collins has still not got the title Honorable.
the only other one i recall where ot was removed was Tito philip Feild, a convicted fraudster
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11342322

Key had removed the honorific "honourable" that all cabinet ministers and former ministers are entitled to use.

Even Pansy Wong stil has hers remember she was found to have abused her parliamentary travel to pay for her husbands business trips and was also forced to resign.

[FJRider]

Maybe someone should ask why Judith collins has still not got the title Honorable.
the only other one i recall where ot was removed was Tito philip Feild, a convicted fraudster
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11342322


Even Pansy Wong stil has hers remember she was found to have abused her parliamentary travel to pay for her husbands business trips and was also forced to resign.

The title of “Honorable” is not automatically granted for life but needs the recommendation of the Prime Minister to become permanent.

The title "Honorable” is currently reserved for the members of the Executive (Ministers) and judges of the High Court, Appeal Court and Supreme Court. Where someone might be eligible for either title, the title of “The Right Honorable” takes precedence as it is more prestigious. References in the House of Representatives to “honourable members” do not necessarily refer to members holding the title of “The Honourable”.

[Swoop]

Has Judith appointed you as head of her Dirty Politics campaign?
That sounds like a conspiracy in the embryonic stage. Shall we see how it develops?

[husaberg]

odd all thsose nats supporters have gone rather quiet
Seems as if old Crusher wants to play dirty.
346517

[Grumph]

odd all thsose nats supporters have gone rather quiet
Seems as if old Crusher wants to play dirty.


And she struck back quickly. I don't dispute Lees-Galloway had to go - and quickly.
But I'd like to know who told Duncan Garner to ask just that question....

Mediaworks seem to be becoming Fox News NZ. You'd have to wonder just what has been promised behind closed doors.

Post election - if the Nats get in - will the State broadcaster have to make a profit ? Mediaworks have gone quiet on future plans.

[ellipsis]

Seems as if old Crusher wants to play dirty.
346517


...nah...she just plays politics to the max...integrity and honesty has nothing to do with it...I abhor her and don't mind calling her a cunt...

[husaberg]

And she struck back quickly. I don't dispute Lees-Galloway had to go - and quickly.
But I'd like to know who told Duncan Garner to ask just that question....

Mediaworks seem to be becoming Fox News NZ. You'd have to wonder just what has been promised behind closed doors.

Post election - if the Nats get in - will the State broadcaster have to make a profit ? Mediaworks have gone quiet on future plans.

i am not so sure if thre is a clause in the contracts that say no sex with any subordinates, or bring company into disrepute okay fair go.
but its a consensual relationship, it gets pretty murkey legally. I dont argue he was on notice after the immigration stuff.
Funny enough he was once the Labour spokesman for "Workplace Relations"

Conversely National was keen to keep JLR ones quiet and only spilled when he did these included one with a subordinate and two other affairs with married people.
You can bet money Labour knew all about the affairs then


...nah...she just plays politics to the max...integrity and honesty has nothing to do with it...I abhor her and don't mind calling her a cunt...
Its a dangerous game, one that National seems to be losing atm.
to be fair to Fallon i dont know about the other stuff but the original pic AFAIK was a singular sent to a 19 year old so to make out initially it was an underage was a bit unfair IMO.
i am not saying what he did was fine, but if it was a one off its unlikely to be harassment or illegal.

[ellipsis]

...it's the dickheadedness of these supposed, men of integrity, that riles...dickheads...and I also agree that consensuality has sweet fuck all to do with politics...

[husaberg]

...it's the dickheadedness of these supposed, men of integrity, that riles...dickheads...and I also agree that consensuality has sweet fuck all to do with politics...

Makes you laugh when you think of Trump and Boris johnsons history..............

[Swoop]

You'd have to wonder just what has been promised behind closed doors.

Lees-Galloway has been "rumoured" for over a month. Gayford for a while over that amount of time, so the tooth-monster is probably shitting bricks waiting for that to break... Probably going to play the "pity me" sympathy vote-getting approach.
I'd suspect the media outlets have had quite large promises made in return for certain favours...

[Katman]

Lees-Galloway has been "rumoured" for over a month. Gayford for a while over that amount of time, so the tooth-monster is probably shitting bricks waiting for that to break... Probably going to play the "pity me" sympathy vote-getting approach.
I'd suspect the media outlets have had quite large promises made in return for certain favours...

And you seem to be thriving on the whole sordidness of it all.

[pete376403]

Lees-Galloway has been "rumoured" for over a month. Gayford for a while over that amount of time, so the tooth-monster is probably shitting bricks waiting for that to break... Probably going to play the "pity me" sympathy vote-getting approach.
I'd suspect the media outlets have had quite large promises made in return for certain favours...

I was sent an e-mail with a pseudo-election billboard picture featuring Gayford and making reference to the nanny. Someone hasn't thought this through - Gayford is not political so there is no reflection on Labour. However if the alleged incident has taken place, then Jacinda comes out of it as the wronged party and with a young child, she wont need to play the "pity me" approach, but she sure is going to pick up a lot of sympathy votes from women. Meanwhile Gayford just looks like a typical male dumbshit.

[pritch]

I was sent an e-mail with a pseudo-election billboard picture featuring Gayford and making reference to the nanny. Someone hasn't thought this through -

This was news to me. I'm not up with who is screwing who. I had to look it up. There is the story that Gayford was screwing the nanny. To make the story even better, the nanny is now reported pregnant.

Somebody else says there was no nanny. Nanny services were supplied by Gayford's mum.

Having spent all of five minutes on this I'm none the wiser, and still not particularly interested. If genuine news does break though, at least I'll know what they are on about.

[jasonu]

If genuine news does break though, at least I'll know what they are on about.

You mean when Vanity Fair or the National Inquirer publish it.

[pritch]

You mean when Vanity Fair or the National Inquirer publish it.

I don't normally read your stuff, much less reply to it. Sometimes though people who don't usually frequent this part of the site see something you wrote and assume you know what you are talking about.

So by way of clarification, I have only seen a couple of items from Vanity Fair. The name doesn't do it any favours, but they appear to have some good writers. You should try it, you might learn something.

I've never seen the National Inquirer.

Some things I have read:
The US Constitution,
The Mueller Report.

Books about the current US administration (if indeed it can be called that) by the following authors:
Bob Woodward
James Comey
Andrew McCabe
John Bolton
Mary Trump

I subscribe to the local rag and The Washington Post. I don't much read the Harold, I'll leave that to you.

Additionally I read other news web sites daily, plus receive emails from news organisations and most days listen to news related podcasts.

If you really tried, in a year or two you might even be able to participate in an intelligent discussion.

[jasonu]

I don't normally read your stuff, much less reply to it. Sometimes though people who don't usually frequent this part of the site see something you wrote and assume you know what you are talking about.

So by way of clarification, I have only seen a couple of items from Vanity Fair. The name doesn't do it any favours, but they appear to have some good writers. You should try it, you might learn something.

I've never seen the National Inquirer.

Some things I have read:
The US Constitution,
The Mueller Report.

Books about the current US administration (if indeed it can be called that) by the following authors:
Bob Woodward
James Comey
Andrew McCabe
John Bolton
Mary Trump

I subscribe to the local rag and The Washington Post. I don't much read the Harold, I'll leave that to you.

Additionally I read other news web sites daily, plus receive emails from news organisations and most days listen to news related podcasts.

If you really tried, in a year or two you might even be able to participate in an intelligent discussion.


If you have really read all that then why is 99% of what you post on here crap?

Oh yeah the Muller report hahahaha what a fizzer that was.

[husaberg]

National party, Nazi party white supremacists i guess ts easy for its mp's to get confused............
https://news-image-prod-imgix.tech.tvnz.co.nz/content/dam/images/news/2020/07/28/WOOD.jpg.hashed.8a5239ed.mobile.story.homePage.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbZJOaTUwAAGGAp.jpghttps://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/12/national-s-teen-candidate-william-wood-deletes-photo-with-white-supremacist-linked-gesture/_jcr_content/par/image_42767902.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1575339631515/v2-William-Wood-Credit-Facebook-1120.jpg

https://news-image-prod-imgix.tech.tvnz.co.nz/api/v1/web/image/content/dam/images/news/2020/07/28/collins_presser_palmerston_north_lusf_bco_a2707_fr ame_8505.jpg.554253594.png
National's Palmerston North candidate William Wood with leader Eva Braun

[Murray]

National party Nazi party i guess ts easy to get confused............
https://news-image-prod-imgix.tech.tvnz.co.nz/content/dam/images/news/2020/07/28/WOOD.jpg.hashed.8a5239ed.mobile.story.homePage.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbZJOaTUwAAGGAp.jpg

https://news-image-prod-imgix.tech.tvnz.co.nz/api/v1/web/image/content/dam/images/news/2020/07/28/collins_presser_palmerston_north_lusf_bco_a2707_fr ame_8505.jpg.554253594.png
National's Palmerston North candidate William Wood with leader Eva Braun

Easy to get confused??

You got the leader of the National Party wrong!!!

Practice what you preach

[husaberg]

Easy to get confused??

You got the leader of the National Party wrong!!!

Practice what you preach

Really, i got it wrong, if its me getting the leader of the national party wrong, why are they replacing them every couple of months...
Frankly, its a waste of time learning how to spell Eva Braun, she will be gone in a month or so.
She can then go into business with Boag selling our personal information.

[Murray]

Really, i got it wrong, if its me getting the leader of the national party wrong whey are they replacing them every couple of months...
Frankly, its a waste of time learning how to spell Eva Braun she will be gone in a month or so.

Eva Braun died a long time ago are you getting confused again?

Perhaps you could read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Braun

[husaberg]

Eva Braun died a long time ago are you getting confused again?

Perhaps you could read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Braun

Odd,If you read the last paragraph it says she is alive and well and leading the National party, to be fair though it was written a few weeks ago so she might have resigned by now.:innocent:
346590

[Murray]

Odd,If you read the last paragraph it says she is alive and well and leading the National party, to be fair though it was written a few weeks ago so she might have resigned by now.:innocent:
346590

All good some banter and KATMAN gives me red rep for it?

What an absolute tosser. Grow up little boy!

Why dd you do that?

[husaberg]

All good some banter and KATMAN gives me red rep for it?

What an absolute tosser. Grow up little boy!

Why dd you do that?

Perchance did his rep contain any homoerotic undertones........
its not a co-incidence, what you find when you google "steving" in the urban dictionary

[Murray]

Perchance did his rep contain any homoerotic undertones........

Something like "whose more retarded - you or the Berk."

Mr Katman why did you red rep me with this comment?

[Madness]

As painful as this is, my money's on Murray.

[FJRider]

Perchance did his rep contain any homoerotic undertones........
its not a co-incidence, what you find when you google "steving" in the urban dictionary

No better than the result of googling "Berk" ...

It's a personal choice thing though ... ;)

[Katman]

Mr Katman why did you red rep me with this comment?

Because that's just how it is Murray.

I really can't figure out which one of you is the more retarded.

[pritch]

You guys seem a bit behind the play. Judith can't be Eva Braun, that has been used for the third Mrs Trump for some time now.

[Murray]

Because that's just how it is Murray.

I really can't figure out which one of you is the more retarded.

Pretty easy really - its the one who calls others retarded that shows a lack of intellect!

[husaberg]

Pretty easy really - its the one who calls others retarded that shows a lack of intellect!

Isnt it more like the one who doesn't understand what GDP is
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188175-The-journey-that-COVID-19-will-take-us-on?p=1131160027#post1131160027
or is a Mechanic and doesn't understand how an internal combustion engine works.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174599-Alternative-fuels
or the one that claims to be an expert on 1080 and says there is numerous cost effective alternatives for the the inaccessible ares od NZ yet can't name a single one.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185935-The-1080-debate?p=1131110003#post1131110003
Claims farmers send 120kg calves to the works after a Rodeo, which is a toatl fabrication not to mention a totally stupid statement to make.

[Banditbandit]

OK - haven't dropped in for a while ..

Nothing's changed - still minimal signs of intelligent life here

Have fun people .. I'll leave you to it

[Kickaha]

Have fun people .. I'll leave you to it
That should raise the average IQ of the place

[Oakie]

Pretty easy really - its the one who calls others retarded that shows a lack of intellect!

True story: I used to work in an intellectual disability support outfit and one of the three funniest things I heard there was two of the residents arguing one day and one called the other a retard!
the other two funniest things:
A) involved a resident with tourettes ... and
B) a resident in a mall saw a woman breast feeding and shouted out "Boobs, Boobs, boobs!

[Oakie]

Surprised these guys haven't been mentioned yet. https://www.nzpublicparty.org.nz/ I'm sure that there are a couple of people here who have already joined.

[sugilite]

Yeah nah bruh. I wonder how many more plays out the Trump manual we are going to see over and above the ones we have already seen from Judith Collins.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/423358/collins-calls-for-election-to-be-pushed-back-to-late-november-or-2021

And don't go thinking everyone has forgotten your corrupt ways oh Judith crusher of a whole 3 cars.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/judith-collins-biggest-controversies-troublesome-tweets-resignations-and-dirty-politics.html
And a good friend of mine told me about Judiths husbands attempt importing swamp kauri to China after the 2018 supreme court decision that only "worked" items made from this material can be exported - not the whole trunks he was trying to send to have carved and manufactured into furniture by the Chinese. (who by the way are some of the Worlds best carvers).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/108480908/swamp-kauri-cannot-be-exported-unless-its-a-finished-product-supreme-court-rules

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah nah bruh. I wonder how many more plays out the Trump manual we are going to see over and above the ones we have already seen from Judith Collins.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/423358/collins-calls-for-election-to-be-pushed-back-to-late-november-or-2021

And don't go thinking everyone has forgotten your corrupt ways oh Judith crusher of a whole 3 cars.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/judith-collins-biggest-controversies-troublesome-tweets-resignations-and-dirty-politics.html
And a good friend of mine told me about Judiths husbands attempt importing swamp kauri to China after the 2018 supreme court decision that only "worked" items made from this material can be exported - not the whole trunks he was trying to send to have carved and manufactured into furniture by the Chinese. (who by the way are some of the Worlds best carvers).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/108480908/swamp-kauri-cannot-be-exported-unless-its-a-finished-product-supreme-court-rules

For the record: I think Judith Collins is a massive Cunt.

[Berries]

I'd tap it.


....

[sugilite]

For the record: I think Judith Collins is a massive Cunt.
Well bloody hell, we agree on something? That's it, I'm checking for the sun rising in the west tomorrow! :laugh:

[Dadpole]

I'd tap it.


....

I will let you... :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

Well bloody hell, we agree on something? That's it, I'm checking for the sun rising in the west tomorrow! :laugh:

Outside of our views on Trump and contrails, I'd wager there's a good many things we agree on.

Problem is (for me, anyway), those things don't generate arguments or discussions that provoke my interest to post on.

[Dean]

Maori party for me thanks (Maori Electorate).

Keen to see Te Reo used more in schooling and in general society. And of course see some past wrongs attended too regarding some land claims and restorations.

That’s my gig anyways.

Exciting to see how things pan out nonetheless!

[Swoop]

The level of ineptitude is simply staggering.
How can this government cock-up closing the borders so badly? The average kiwi has "done the hard yards" of a month long lockdown, then labour completely fucks everything up.

:facepalm:

[jasonu]

The level of ineptitude is simply staggering.
How can this government cock-up closing the borders so badly? The average kiwi has "done the hard yards" of a month long lockdown, then labour completely fucks everything up.

:facepalm:

Hardly surprising given their track record of an endless stream of fuck ups.

[Katman]

The level of ineptitude is simply staggering.
How can this government cock-up closing the borders so badly? The average kiwi has "done the hard yards" of a month long lockdown, then labour completely fucks everything up.

Remind me again how keen National were to see the borders opened back up.

[nerrrd]

The level of ineptitude is simply staggering.
How can this government cock-up closing the borders so badly? The average kiwi has "done the hard yards" of a month long lockdown, then labour completely fucks everything up.

:facepalm:

And...they never closed the border. It still isn't closed and won't be. Pretty sure neither side of our same-y political coin would be in favour of that.

But yeah, the side that's in charge of managing the border at the moment has to take responsibility for any failures.

[husaberg]

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/nz-should-open-borders-countries-covid-muller

ational leader Todd Muller says waiting for a vaccine or for other countries to eliminate Covid-19 before the border reopens would leave New Zealand "on its knees".
Speaking to the Wellington Chamber of Commerce on Monday Muller called for the Government to describe its thinking about the conditions under which it would look to relax border restrictions..
"The New Zealand strategy cannot be that we stay locked up until everybody else gets to zero or we have a vaccine. This country would be on its knees if that was the case."
Earlier in his brief leadership, Muller said the National Party believed Australian skiers should be able to come to New Zealand this winter.


April
https://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Screen-Shot-2020-04-22-at-5.42.13-PM.png

6th May
He said the Government was taking too conservative an approach to moving out of lockdown, and business owners and workers were suffering needlessly.

[Black Knight]

Recently on news items the terminology "returning residents" has started to be used,this in relations to returning "kiwis" being allowed to return "home".So,I assume this means anyone with a residents visa can come into NZ-No wonder there are 40,000 plus immigrants coming through the borders.Take some time and see how one obtains a residents visa and you will see why so many non english speaking people are wandering our streets,it is scarey.I thought the borders were for NZ passport holders and those with NZ Citizenship,not for someone to come here,buy a house and install their offspring (or leave it vacant) and piss off back to their own country, selling said property at a later date for a tax free capital gain.Also bringing in parents,grandparents,partners and siblings.Anyone got any comments to make on this?

[Swoop]

Remind me again how keen National were to see the borders opened back up.
Well, difficult to "open up" a border that hasn't been closed [properly].
Taxcinda will put some nonsense spin onto that, like all of the other cock-ups her inept government have caused.

I'd have thought you would be quite interested in how well she is managing to gag the media, on multiple issues that are quite relevant to their performance, or lack thereof.

[Katman]

I'd have thought you would be quite interested in how well she is managing to gag the media, on multiple issues that are quite relevant to their performance, or lack thereof.

That sounds like a conspiracy.

Do tell us more.

[Oakie]

I will make a bold prediction. The New Zealand Public Party (those conspiracy theory darlings), if they do not get into parliament by getting 5% of the vote, will allege that the election was rigged by a combination of Jacinda, a secret Labour/National agreement, Bill Gates, The New World Order, Communist China, the U.N. and shape-shifting alien lizards, and demand ... something.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Recently on news items the terminology "returning residents" has started to be used,this in relations to returning "kiwis" being allowed to return "home".So,I assume this means anyone with a residents visa can come into NZ-No wonder there are 40,000 plus immigrants coming through the borders.Take some time and see how one obtains a residents visa and you will see why so many non english speaking people are wandering our streets,it is scarey.I thought the borders were for NZ passport holders and those with NZ Citizenship,not for someone to come here,buy a house and install their offspring (or leave it vacant) and piss off back to their own country, selling said property at a later date for a tax free capital gain.Also bringing in parents,grandparents,partners and siblings.Anyone got any comments to make on this?

I came to NZ in 2008. I came from Northern Ireland which means I speak English, after a fashion. I had to jump through a lot of hoops and spend a lot of money to gain my residency. I had to demonstrate I was in decent health and did not represent an undesirable burden on the health system, I had to provide evidence I did not have a criminal history, I had to prove I had stable employment paying above a minimum level (a fair bit higher than minimum wage)and that employment was a good long term prospect. I had to do this before I was allowed in and again 2 years later. I obtained citizenship a couple of years ago, something I count a privilege and am intensely proud of. There were numerous hoops to jump through to have my application accepted, and that is exactly how it should be.
Your characterisation of immigrants with residency “wandering the streets,it is scarey” is, if I may say so, inflammatory, inaccurate, ill informed and unhelpful. Residency is not handed out that easily. There are many schemes whereby immigrants may come and work here, that does not make them residents. There are ways for non-citizens and non-residents to come and buy property. You have Mr Key and the neo-liberal fascination with letting “market forces” drive the distribution of wealth and the price and patterns of property ownership to thank for your stated example. Everyone in this country is an immigrant to some degree or other. If NZ is home to anyone, why would you not allow them to come home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bonez]

That sounds like a conspiracy.

Do tell us more.I'd like to know as well.

Surely some one from the so called indigenous peoples, whose fore fathers were immigrants to this country according to there own fairy stories and use the call white folk pakeha moaris, would be trumpeting it from a blow horn by now.

And for those who think I'm being racist here are some carvings my white trash darling with arthritis has done and we have on display at home..There are a lot more.

And no, it is NOT cultural misappropriation. Connie was trained and mentored by an old Maori chap. His other brown skin coloured male students were really pissed off when they saw what a middle aged, dumpy, blue eyed blonde pakeha chick could do.

[Oakie]

There were numerous hoops to jump through to have my application accepted, and that is exactly how it should be. Residency is not handed out that easily.

In my old HR job i used to try and help our work permited staff with their residency applications and none of them were ever easily obtained. More were probably denied than accepted. I also worked in Immmigration NZ briefly and can verify that no one just gets to walk into NZ. It's expensive and there are many standards to be met. It's only getting harder too with income tests becoming tougher to meet and work permit terms being shortened.

The other thing I really had my eyes opened to there is that it's not a case of work permitted 'immigrants coming in and taking NZ jobs'. They only get in when it's proven that no suitable Kiwi's have applied for the particular job they are looking at.

I don't know if it's well known either that when a person on a work permit takes a job for say one year, at the end of that year the job has to be re-advertised and if a suitable Kiwi applies, the person with the work permit is out of a job and will most likely have to return to their homeland. The employer has to provide a list to INZ detailing why each Kiwi applicant is not suitable.

[sugilite]

I'd like to know as well.

Surely some one from the so called indigenous peoples, whose fore fathers were immigrants to this country according to there own fairy stories and use the call white folk pakeha moaris, would be trumpeting it from a blow horn by now.

And for those who think I'm being racist here are some carvings my white trash darling with arthritis has done and we have on display at home..There are a lot more.

And no, it is NOT cultural misappropriation. Connie was trained and mentored by an old Maori chap. His other brown skin coloured male students were really pissed off when they saw what a middle aged, dumpy, blue eyed blonde pakeha chick could do.
Yeah, those carvings totally prove you are not a racist man :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

The other thing I really had my eyes opened to there is that it's not a case of work permitted 'immigrants coming in and taking NZ jobs'. They only get in when it's proven that no suitable Kiwi's have applied for the particular job they are looking at.

In my field of IT, we do get a fair amount of the entry-level jobs taken up by Migrants, Some of them are bloody fantastic and some of them are bloody crap.

What people mean when they say 'coming in and taking NZ Jobs' is a very blunt statement and doesn't really portray the nuance of it. Consider an IT business with a Vacancy, advertised for a particular salary - and no one applies. What does a business owner do?

If the pressure on the business is low, they might wait and try again, but if pressure on the business is high and they really need someone - then in accordance with supply and demand, they have to raise the price (The salary) to the point where supply is equal to demand.

Now let's run that same scenario again but with Migration as a factor - They advertise a job at a particular salary, no Kiwi applicants apply (because it's a low-ball salary offer or it's a Helldesk job that no one wants to do) but several migrants apply - Since you've increased the supply of labour, the price (in accordance with supply and demand) goes down.

When there is no migration, the shortage of labour drives up wages, an excess supply of labour drives down wages - the Company gets' to go to INZ, with hand-on-heart and say 'but we can't get any Kiwis to do this job' - whilst omitting that the reason they can't is because they aren't paying the market rate for Kiwis.

In the UK, this has been terrible for some areas and was a key factor in certain regions that were traditional working-class Labour strongholds voting Tory due to the wage stagnation caused by Immigration.

To be clear though - a properly manage Migration system is a net-positive, but let's also be clear that certain business sectors and certain jobs have their wages kept low due to a greater supply of labour than if there wasn't Migration.

[Ulsterkiwi]

In my field of IT, we do get a fair amount of the entry-level jobs taken up by Migrants, Some of them are bloody fantastic and some of them are bloody crap.

What people mean when they say 'coming in and taking NZ Jobs' is a very blunt statement and doesn't really portray the nuance of it. Consider an IT business with a Vacancy, advertised for a particular salary - and no one applies. What does a business owner do?

If the pressure on the business is low, they might wait and try again, but if pressure on the business is high and they really need someone - then in accordance with supply and demand, they have to raise the price (The salary) to the point where supply is equal to demand.

Now let's run that same scenario again but with Migration as a factor - They advertise a job at a particular salary, no Kiwi applicants apply (because it's a low-ball salary offer or it's a Helldesk job that no one wants to do) but several migrants apply - Since you've increased the supply of labour, the price (in accordance with supply and demand) goes down.

When there is no migration, the shortage of labour drives up wages, an excess supply of labour drives down wages - the Company gets' to go to INZ, with hand-on-heart and say 'but we can't get any Kiwis to do this job' - whilst omitting that the reason they can't is because they aren't paying the market rate for Kiwis.

In the UK, this has been terrible for some areas and was a key factor in certain regions that were traditional working-class Labour strongholds voting Tory due to the wage stagnation caused by Immigration.

To be clear though - a properly manage Migration system is a net-positive, but let's also be clear that certain business sectors and certain jobs have their wages kept low due to a greater supply of labour than if there wasn't Migration.

Your explanation makes sense.
Is that not kind of what the previous government under Mr Key really encouraged then? Seems to me immigration as they used it, served to reduce wage costs for business in the way you described but pushed up property prices and rental prices because of supply issues, again following your description of the model. Infrastructure was not built up to service a growing population and public services did not keep pace.
So who benefited? The already fluid and financially successful it would appear.
Then the current government tries to restore some balance, can't do it in the stupidly short parliamentary term we have here and is accused of stifling the economy, not building enough yadda yadda yadda.

Clearly I benefited from an immigration opportunity, so that undoubtedly influences my perspective. That said, I came here and initially earned less to do the same job I was doing back in the UK. If properly managed, I would suggest immigration could be used to improve opportunities for all, not widen the gap between the "have"s and "will-never-really-get-the-same-opportunities-to-have"s

[Bonez]

Yeah, those carvings totally prove you are not a racist man :yes:My best mates are Maori you nutjob. As are nieces, nephews, brother in laws, we called the next door mates parents uncles and aunts as kids, The nephew (who is going through the BLM lov'n rebellious stage at the moment) who is Maori and is staying at our place is Maori and is allowed to have his Maori friends stay over on the weekends. We did have his Mother and sister stay for 9months but they were just inconsiderate, selfish, trouble making cunts and got kicked off our property. They are a bit like KB snowflakes as it so happens.The kids father, who is Maori is a known pedo. skipped Aust before the authorities there got hold of him. I could go on but wont bother...

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regaurds

Bonez

[TheDemonLord]

Your explanation makes sense.
Is that not kind of what the previous government under Mr Key really encouraged then? Seems to me immigration as they used it, served to reduce wage costs for business in the way you described but pushed up property prices and rental prices because of supply issues, again following your description of the model. Infrastructure was not built up to service a growing population and public services did not keep pace.
So who benefited? The already fluid and financially successful it would appear.

No argument from me there, This is something that multiple governments not just here or in the UK have done and it has been done across the political Spectrum.


Then the current government tries to restore some balance, can't do it in the stupidly short parliamentary term we have here and is accused of stifling the economy, not building enough yadda yadda yadda.

Well, it's more that I accuse them of spending money they didn't have on things they shouldn't be and pissing all over my rights whilst doing it - but y'know - no need to rehash that grievance.

On top of that, the current left-wing Milieu is tilting towards open-borders (see the calls for the removal of ICE in the US, extending the right of Citizens to illegal migrants in the UK and the US etc.) so I have zero faith that what they are trying to do is restore balance.


Clearly I benefited from an immigration opportunity, so that undoubtedly influences my perspective. That said, I came here and initially earned less to do the same job I was doing back in the UK. If properly managed, I would suggest immigration could be used to improve opportunities for all, not widen the gap between the "have"s and "will-never-really-get-the-same-opportunities-to-have"s

Same here - I think I've done alright, so did My Family - I'm not anti-migration, far from it - it's just that the numbers need to be balanced correctly and the skills that are being imported need to be in genuine short supply as opposed to artificially short supply.

[sugilite]

My best mates are Maori you nutjob. As are nieces, nephews, brother in laws, we called the next door mates parents uncles and aunts as kids, The nephew (who is going through the BLM lov'n rebellious stage at the moment) who is Maori and is staying at our place is Maori and is allowed to have his Maori friends stay over on the weekends. We did have his Mother and sister stay for 9months but they were just inconsiderate, selfish, trouble making cunts and got kicked off our property. Their father, who is Maori is a known pedo. skipped Aust before the authorities there got hold of him.I could go on but wont bother...

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regaurds

Bonez

sheesh, sorry for agreeing with you - I was not asking for your whole whakapapa mate :msn-wink:

[Bonez]

sheesh, sorry for agreeing with you - I was not asking for your whole whakapapa mate :msn-wink:No worries but it is nice to know some back ground:bleh:

Actually in posting that I got a hell of a lot off my chest so thanks for that. Been wanting to do that for a looooong time.

[ellipsis]

No worries but it is nice to know some back ground:bleh:

...why?...

[Bonez]

...why?...cause.....

Did you find that link to GL1000 parts on 1into1.com useful at all?

[ellipsis]

...fairy nuff...

[Ulsterkiwi]

Well, it's more that I accuse them of spending money they didn't have on things they shouldn't be and pissing all over my rights whilst doing it - but y'know - no need to rehash that grievance.

On top of that, the current left-wing Milieu is tilting towards open-borders (see the calls for the removal of ICE in the US, extending the right of Citizens to illegal migrants in the UK and the US etc.) so I have zero faith that what they are trying to do is restore balance.



Same here - I think I've done alright, so did My Family - I'm not anti-migration, far from it - it's just that the numbers need to be balanced correctly and the skills that are being imported need to be in genuine short supply as opposed to artificially short supply.


Show me a country in the world that is not borrowing heavily to survive at the moment. Besides, the Key government also borrowed significantly and raised taxation (GST anyone?) They just offset it by not spending on increasingly overwhelmed public services, which we still need by the way.
Judith Collins is suggesting people use their Kiwisaver to start up a business. I thought National were the party of savers? Given how many small businesses fail, how is spending personal provision for retirement money going to help? Will central government pay more super to make up the difference?

To the second point, this is New Zealand and if anything, Labour policy is more towards limiting immigration. I do not see NZ as having an immigration "problem" in the way the UK and the USA seem to wet themselves about. That is more about finding a group to blame broader problems on.
"They come here and take our jobs!", yes Billy-Bob, your job as a shit shoveler at the local rodeo is being actively pursued by this Asian chap who is a trained neurosurgeon, completely see where you are coming from.
"They come here and bludge off of our system", Yes Billy-Bob, it is actually "bludge from" but however, back to the point in hand, either they are taking your job or they are bludging from the system, which is it?

You are absolutely correct however, immigration is a tool like any other, properly used, it can be beneficial both to an economy and for the enrichment of society in general.

[Dean]

My best mates are Maori you nutjob. As are nieces, nephews, brother in laws, we called the next door mates parents uncles and aunts as kids, The nephew (who is going through the BLM lov'n rebellious stage at the moment) who is Maori and is staying at our place is Maori and is allowed to have his Maori friends stay over on the weekends. We did have his Mother and sister stay for 9months but they were just inconsiderate, selfish, trouble making cunts and got kicked off our property. They are a bit like KB snowflakes as it so happens.The kids father, who is Maori is a known pedo. skipped Aust before the authorities there got hold of him. I could go on but wont bother...

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regaurds

Bonez

You have got a Maori ‘Kiwibiker nephew’ over here too Bonez :yes::baby:

Well... part Maori...but who’s counting?:whistle::whistle:

[Oakie]

What people mean when they say 'coming in and taking NZ Jobs' is a very blunt statement and doesn't really portray the nuance of it. Consider an IT business with a Vacancy, advertised for a particular salary - and no one applies. What does a business owner do?

If the pressure on the business is low, they might wait and try again, but if pressure on the business is high and they really need someone - then in accordance with supply and demand, they have to raise the price (The salary) to the point where supply is equal to demand.

Now let's run that same scenario again but with Migration as a factor - They advertise a job at a particular salary, no Kiwi applicants apply (because it's a low-ball salary offer or it's a Helldesk job that no one wants to do) but several migrants apply - Since you've increased the supply of labour, the price (in accordance with supply and demand) goes down.



When i left Immigration NZ they had outlined an upcoming amendment which may be in place now. Immigrants would be unable to come in on a low rate as each job would be allocated an 'industry pay rate range' rather than be judged on the duties undertaken in the role. If the contracted job did not meet this range, no work permit is issued.

[Katman]

Actually in posting that I got a hell of a lot off my chest so thanks for that. Been wanting to do that for a looooong time.

You probably should have just whacked one off instead.

[Dean]

You probably should have just whacked one off instead.

Well he does have a reputation for being a mass-debater...

[TheDemonLord]

Show me a country in the world that is not borrowing heavily to survive at the moment. Besides, the Key government also borrowed significantly and raised taxation (GST anyone?) They just offset it by not spending on increasingly overwhelmed public services, which we still need by the way.
Judith Collins is suggesting people use their Kiwisaver to start up a business. I thought National were the party of savers? Given how many small businesses fail, how is spending personal provision for retirement money going to help? Will central government pay more super to make up the difference?

I wasn't referring to the My Sharona virus, although that is another thing that I disagree with.


To the second point, this is New Zealand and if anything, Labour policy is more towards limiting immigration. I do not see NZ as having an immigration "problem" in the way the UK and the USA seem to wet themselves about. That is more about finding a group to blame broader problems on.
"They come here and take our jobs!", yes Billy-Bob, your job as a shit shoveler at the local rodeo is being actively pursued by this Asian chap who is a trained neurosurgeon, completely see where you are coming from.
"They come here and bludge off of our system", Yes Billy-Bob, it is actually "bludge from" but however, back to the point in hand, either they are taking your job or they are bludging from the system, which is it?

The problem for me is 2-fold, firstly - I don't trust Aunty Cindy and her activist base for a millisecond (which is entirely on me), Secondly (and perhaps more pertinent) where the UK and the US go, NZ typically follows later on. We've seen this with various social movements (Occupy, BLM etc.) So I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't too far off.

To answer Billy-Bob, a little personal story - when we moved here, My Dad, on his own Merits, could not have Migrated to NZ, (mainly due to his Age) Despite being a highly skilled migrant (Aeronautical Engineer), he didn't have a Job lined up etc.

We pretty much got in on my Mum's ticket - She was a Nurse, and based on that, the red carpet was rolled out to us. Ironically, within a week of landing here, My Dad had been headhunted by an Aviation firm (NZ's Aviation industry is incestuous as fuck - EVERYONE knows EVERYONE) and worked for a company before running his own, till he retired.

But imagine for the moment that this wasn't the case, and that my family was younger (so more points towards being allowed), Mum still being a Nurse (so pretty much guaranteed entry), but my Dad not being a highly skilled Migrant. Let's also assume that we came from a different country and that the rest of the family were blue-collar/low skilled workers - for whose jobs would they be competing? Billy-Bob isn't likely to interact with the Neurosurgeon Migrant, or the Syrian Refugee who works as in Scale-out Healthcare IT Infrastructure and was one of the nicest, hardest working people I ever had the pleasure of working with - but Billy-Bob is likely to interact with those I outlined above so that skews his perception.

To give a flipside argument - I've got 2 people where I work currently who moved out of Auckland to get more points towards getting permanent Residency and they are worried because My company might be changing it's legal name - which means they have to apply to update their work visas. Both of them are bloody fantastic - one of them is a senior in my Team, the other is in the team below us, but if he continues on the way he's going, may be eligible for a junior/trial position in my team.

Another personal anecdote - my Grandad moved here when he was in his 90s and lived here (cared for entirely by the family) till he passed away, just shy of 100 - had we not been here, there is no way in hell he would ever have been granted residency.

So Ironically, Me and my Family have done all the things that the anti-immigration crowd gripe about, however in our case, I like to think that we've upheld our part of the implied contractual bargain of integrating into NZ society, contributing to it by being net-tax payers, running a successful business etc. etc. And that is where I think the issue lies - where people perceive that the rewards of living in a country like NZ are being enjoyed, without the commensurate responsibilities.

Further to that, on the flipside I've also seen first hand people who IMO absolutely should have permanent residency here still having to piss around with INZ because of minor things (such as a Job title change resulting in them requiring a new Visa)

TL;DR - It's not perfect, it's open to abuse - by both the individual and the state, and when I come up with a better system, I'll collect my Nobel prize


You are absolutely correct however, immigration is a tool like any other, properly used, it can be beneficial both to an economy and for the enrichment of society in general.

Definitely - and I think what it boils down to is something like: When you migrate to a new country, there are a few core-principles and cultural norms that you HAVE to adopt, failure to do so will result in community friction.

In most western liberal democracies, everything that doesn't interfere or contradict those principles and norms is permissible and in most cases celebrated and encouraged.

So - Yourself, you can be as Irish as you want, Shamrock wearing, Green Clad, Guinness drinking, Leprechaun shenanigans-ing etc. so long as you don't violate the key cultural norms (such as speaking English, respecting the rule of law etc.)

[jasonu]

Show me a country in the world that is not borrowing heavily to survive at the moment. Besides, the Key government also borrowed significantly and raised taxation (GST anyone?) They just offset it by not spending on increasingly overwhelmed public services, which we still need by the way.
Judith Collins is suggesting people use their Kiwisaver to start up a business. I thought National were the party of savers? Given how many small businesses fail, how is spending personal provision for retirement money going to help? Will central government pay more super to make up the difference?

To the second point, this is New Zealand and if anything, Labour policy is more towards limiting immigration. I do not see NZ as having an immigration "problem" in the way the UK and the USA seem to wet themselves about. That is more about finding a group to blame broader problems on.
"They come here and take our jobs!", yes Billy-Bob, your job as a shit shoveler at the local rodeo is being actively pursued by this Asian chap who is a trained neurosurgeon, completely see where you are coming from.
"They come here and bludge off of our system", Yes Billy-Bob, it is actually "bludge from" but however, back to the point in hand, either they are taking your job or they are bludging from the system, which is it?

You are absolutely correct however, immigration is a tool like any other, properly used, it can be beneficial both to an economy and for the enrichment of society in general.

It's the ILLEGAL part of illegal immigrant that pisses a lot of people off. Come here to live if you want but please do it legally or fuck off.

[pete376403]

It's the ILLEGAL part of illegal immigrant that pisses a lot of people off. Come here to live if you want but please do it legally or fuck off.
Like Melania Knauss f'rinstance?
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/5/13533816/melania-trump-illegal-immigrant

[jasonu]

Like Melania Knauss f'rinstance?
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/5/13533816/melania-trump-illegal-immigrant

Sure why not.

[mashman]

Well, the first Meet The Candidates went rather well I thought. Had some fun, told plenty of truth, too much in far too many ways but hey, the truth is like that, and look forwards to doing it again at the next Meet The Candidates. Don't think much to the opposition, but there's no accounting for taste heh.

[Swoop]

So, TVNZ and liarbour are not releasing the latest Colmar Brunton poll...

Possibly like the herald's poll that was taken down a few days ago. When the reality does not match the rhetoric of the regressive leftists' things have to be changed. I wonder when they will start using their chinese communist overlord's line of "You have mis-spoken!"?

[Oakie]

So Labour promise to increase the Minimum Wage and double sick leave entitlements. Nice of them to spend employers' money instead of the taxpayers on this promise.

[Swoop]

So Labour promise to increase the Minimum Wage and double sick leave entitlements. Nice of them to spend employers' money instead of the taxpayers on this promise.

I love how Taxcinda is bitching about national promising tax cuts (these were cancelled when cindy got in, remember?) but bribing the gullible with higher min-wage AND double sick days? Really?

At least we know an election promise from liarbour will not be kept.

[FJRider]

So Labour promise to increase the Minimum Wage and double sick leave entitlements. Nice of them to spend employers' money instead of the taxpayers on this promise.

As long as a Dr's certificate is required to get any sick pay ... I have no issue with that.

If they increase the Benefits ... they wont need to increase the minimum wage.

Fewer people not (wanting to be) working than are working.

Win win ..

[mashman]

So Labour promise to increase the Minimum Wage and double sick leave entitlements. Nice of them to spend employers' money instead of the taxpayers on this promise.

Where does taxpayer money come from? Asking for a friend who thinks that ratepayers, taxpayers and employers are different people.

[FJRider]

Where does taxpayer money come from? Asking for a friend who thinks that ratepayers, taxpayers and employers are different people.

If you do not get paid ... or spend any money that does not require a tax to be included in the transaction ... you are not a taxpayer.

[mashman]

If you do not get paid ... or spend any money that does not require a tax to be included in the transaction ... you are not a taxpayer.

Sounds complicated. Would having a good accountant count also?

[FJRider]

Sounds complicated. Would having a good accountant count also?

Apparently ... :shifty:

[roogazza]

Spitting Images,if anyone remembers them,are back!!
347347

I guess I knew they'd jump on the teeth.:shutup: :shit: :crazy:

[mashman]

Meet The Candidates in Whitby tomorrow if ya'll have a face to face question you'd like to ask.

[husaberg]

So, TVNZ and liarbour are not releasing the latest Colmar Brunton poll...

Possibly like the herald's poll that was taken down a few days ago. When the reality does not match the rhetoric of the regressive leftists' things have to be changed. I wonder when they will start using their chinese communist overlord's line of "You have mis-spoken!"?

Odd you went very very quiet.......


1 News–Colmar Brunton

22 September 2020
Colmar Brunton poll: Labour at 48 percent, National at 31 percent

27 Sep 2020
Labour 48 percent National 33 percent

8 October 2020
Labour 47 percent, National 32 percent

[Oakie]

I voted. Mrs Oakie voted.
We did not tell each other what we were going to do beforehand.

Turns out we cancelled out each other's candidate vote.

Although we have both party-voted for one of the big two parties right through MMP (and I suspect she voted Labour until the John Key era), today we both abandoned the big two and party-voted for the same third party. How strange.

[ellipsis]

...haven't put the tick near the red flag for many years...the blue bloods never got a look in, ever...this time it seems like Jaci Longtooth and her side get both ticks, even though it goes against the grain...anything to reduce the cabbage headed greens from getting more leeway to fondle their impractical notions...

[Black Knight]

On Wednesday mornings Hosking brekky show he announced the Prov Growth Fund donation to the 400 odd marae in NZ-I was a bit taken aback-On Friday Jacinda announced it at the Kawakawa bun fight.And they have the gall to call it not a political announcement.So why wait 3 days?-I really am over this crap.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExGxg6aIZJA

[pritch]

There ws comment in another thread about weirdos in politics. This gem is from the Wairarapa candidate for the Advance NZ Party. Excuse me I'll just get my tinfoil hat...

[husaberg]

There ws comment in another thread about weirdos in politics. This gem from the Wairarapa candidate for the Advance NZ Party. Excuse me I'll just get my tinfoil hat...

I am pretty sure that what yokel said brought down the twin towers.
there is a candidate running in the mana elections........ he looks like he's getting high on his own supply........
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/97007632/election-2017-minor-party-and-independent-electoral-candidate-profiles
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122910569/election-2020-new-labour-candidate-fighting-to-keep-mana-red
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/r/m/2/v/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240x700 .1lr7kg.png/1505878402033.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=medium

[pritch]

Was recommended to watch this. It'll take about 45 minutes of your time, you'll have to decide if it was worth it. It certainly paints a picture.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/10/false-profit-down-the-rabbit-hole-of-billy-tk-jr/?utm_source=stuff&utm_medium=uber2&utm_campaign=falseprofit

[TheDemonLord]

Was recommended to watch this. It'll take about 45 minutes of your time, you'll have to decide if it was worth it. It certainly paints a picture.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/10/false-profit-down-the-rabbit-hole-of-billy-tk-jr/?utm_source=stuff&utm_medium=uber2&utm_campaign=falseprofit

I'm a touch confused....

Stuff is telling me that it's aligned with the Alt-right and Q-anon movements, supported by 'White Supremecists' (the article throws in GamerGate for good measure - LOL), along with all the usual -ists and -isms from The Media.


and yet...

It opens with a Maori bloke giving a Maori welcome....


So which is it?

[pritch]

I'm a touch confused....

Stuff is telling me that it's aligned with the Alt-right and Q-anon movements, supported by 'White Supremecists' (the article throws in GamerGate for good measure - LOL), along with all the usual -ists and -isms from The Media.


and yet...

It opens with a Maori bloke giving a Maori welcome....


So which is it?

What's confusing?

Are you saying Maori can't believe in Q Anon - or any of the other bullshit he peddles?

[TheDemonLord]

What's confusing?

Are you saying Maori can't believe in Q Anon - or any of the other bullshit he peddles?

Of course they can believe in Q-Anon,

However it's the Alt-right and the links to White Supremacy that are incompatible with being Maori.

[sugilite]

Of course they can believe in Q-Anon,

However it's the Alt-right and the links to White Supremacy that are incompatible with being Maori.
I dunno, the mongrel mob seem quite cozy with the nazi movement with the swastikas and sieg heil thing going on. I'm sure Hitler would of found them some nice cozy motels to stay in with special shower blocks for them too. :cool:

[Dean]

Some do this, some do that (Maori).
They don't necessarily need a reason.

And they don't have to fit into the warped perception of what TDL thinks they should be doing.

[TheDemonLord]

I dunno, the mongrel mob seem quite cozy with the nazi movement with the swastikas and sieg heil thing going on. I'm sure Hitler would of found them some nice cozy motels to stay in with special shower blocks for them too. :cool:

Sure, they are quite cozy with the Supremacist part, it's the other parts that are the issue.

[TheDemonLord]

Some do this, some do that (Maori).
They don't necessarily need a reason.

And they don't have to fit into the warped perception of what TDL thinks they should be doing.

It's not a case of what I think they should be doing - it's a case that the claims are mutually exclusive - one cannot be a member of a White Supremecist organization if one is not White. It's kinda the defining characteristic.

Therefore - when they try and link a Maori MP with White Supremecist organisations this can only mean 2 things:

1: They are ignorant as to what they are talking about.
2: They are deceptive in what they are talking about.

In either case, that is the point at which the Article and video have zero credibility.


And for the record - I don't like the Advance party of any of their Candidates.

[Dean]

I'm a touch confused....

Stuff is telling me that it's aligned with the Alt-right and Q-anon movements, supported by 'White Supremecists' (the article throws in GamerGate for good measure - LOL), along with all the usual -ists and -isms from The Media.


and yet...

It opens with a Maori bloke giving a Maori welcome....


So which is it?

Can you point out where in the article they established their was support from 'White Supremacists'? (Not unintelligible nonsense).

Assuming you used single quotation marks intentionally, a simple Ctrl F shows 'White Supremacists' is only mentioned once in the article which is regarding an ex 'White Supremacist' - Caleb Cain.

Don't get defensive - I am genuinely interested in this topic.

[TheDemonLord]

Can you point out where in the article they established their was support from 'White Supremacists'? (Not unintelligible nonsense).

There's a video as well, The links to QAnon (widely regarded as either a Far-right or an Alt-Right conspiracy) and the mentions to the Alt-Right (an ethnocentric ideology, linked to White Supremacy), the references to the Christchurch shooter etc.

They were doing this as the Candidate was doing a greeting in Maori.


Assuming you used single quotation marks intentionally, a simple Ctrl F shows 'White Supremacists' is only mentioned once in the article which is regarding an ex 'White Supremacist' - Caleb Cain.

Don't get defensive - I am genuinely interested in this topic.

I agree - why is an ex white supremacist relevant then?

What does this have to with Advance if Advance has nothing to do with White Supremacy?

However, if you want to establish a soft-link in the mind of the reader between the 2 concepts, then it makes perfect sense. Add in some other concepts that Joe-Public is not well-versed in (but has been told they are bad and the haven of White Supremacy) and viola.

[pritch]

Stephen Miller, a Trump advisor, is widely considered to hold white supremacist views. He is Jewish. Jewish history would seem incompatible with the views espoused by white supremacists, neither are the latter noted for their love of Jews.

Senator Raphael Eduardo Cruz, son of a Cuban immigrant, got himself elected in Texas as a white supremacist.

It would seem some people are extremely flexible in their outlook. There is nothing to suggest Maori are any different to anybody else in that regard.

[TheDemonLord]

Stephen Miller, a Trump advisor, is widely considered to hold white supremacist views. He is Jewish. Jewish history would seem incompatible with the views espoused by white supremacists, neither are the latter noted for their love of Jews.

Senator Raphael Eduardo Cruz, son of a Cuban immigrant, got himself elected in Texas as a white supremacist.

It would seem some people are extremely flexible in their outlook. There is nothing to suggest Maori are any different to anybody else in that regard.

Or.....

Just throwing this out there.....


They aren't actually White Supremecists

[pritch]

Or.....

Just throwing this out there.....


They aren't actually White Supremecists

Says you. As always though, you are out of step. :whistle:

[TheDemonLord]

Says you. As always though, you are out of step. :whistle:

Strange....

I'm looking in your post for some form of proof that these individuals are guilty of White Supremacy?

Yet it appears to be lacking?

I'm willing to wager that I can predict the level of proof that you'd post , probably a Guardian article, probably linking a number of critical statements about either illegal migrants or Islamic terrorists as being 'proof' of White Supremacy...

I again point you to your own statements - you agree there's a contradiction, but instead of dismissing the obvious, you cling to the contradictory statement.

[husaberg]

Act National coalition.




Once people get a proper reaming from the taxes to pay for Covid money drop there will be swing to right.



only with people who believe in fairy dust and head nods.
what about all last elections promises/bribes whats the princess delivered ?



So, TVNZ and liarbour are not releasing the latest Colmar Brunton poll...
Possibly like the herald's poll that was taken down a few days ago. When the reality does not match the rhetoric of the regressive leftists' things have to be changed. I wonder when they will start using their chinese communist overlord's line of "You have mis-spoken!"?




Labour has failed miserably in keeping its election promises. That coupled with all the other blunders horseface has mishandled, Curran, Lees Galloway, that Murray woman who yelled at her people for missing that photo opportuniddy, etc National has a great chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5licW1bnWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1kHdIU8Uek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65xd81cj7pA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAx6mYeC6pY

[Katman]

A great result for Chloe Swarbrick. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw her as Prime Minister one day.

[MaxPenguin]

The two qanon parties are now well aware that facebook world is not the real world. Dickhead conspiracy theorists.

[husaberg]

Nationals leadership team and new hope results.

347513
Even when they won the electorate they still lost the party vote.
If national wants to succeed hanging onto the same people like Colins and Brownlee isn't going to help them
Not only that assuming Luxton replaces them.
What message does that send when the best person to lead National has zero parliamentary experience?
What does that say about all the other current MP's in National.
if Luxton's going to be the leader, would you want 3 former leaders in the background.

[TheDemonLord]

stuff

Well, a prediction made before COVID, I at least got that NZFirst would be out for betraying their Voterbase, ACT got a lot more than just a few seats, their best result ever.

Congratulations must be had for Jacinda, as much as I despise her and her Party, they won fair and square this time around and with a majority under MMP (first time ever)

I personally am not thrilled with the election result, but that is democracy, the next 3 years of crowing will be insufferable, but that's for me to deal with.

I suspect that there will be consequences and people will eventually realise that a Labour solo government will look and feel very similar to a Labour/Greens government.

And for National... when you fail to be conservative and you fail to get your house in order, the NZ Public let you know exactly what they think.

[R650R]

With half nation on welfare now after covid joblosses the result is no surprise really, no one bites the hand that feeds them.
The greens are becoming irrelevant with labour very green tinted and the dope referendum taking care of the other half of voter base.
As Demon said Winston is toast...
ACT got all the gun owners and also people who are sick of pc culture. Didn’t vote for him but had chance encounter with David around time he was talking right to free speech after the chch thing.
One few people who speaks his mind publicly.

No excuse now for Labour to not deliver on their promises although I didn’t hear many this time round. Perhaps they will just try catch up on all the targets they failed to deliver from 2017...

[husaberg]

New Zealand Unemployment Rate
<iframe src='https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/embed/?s=nzlfuner&v=202010162300V20200908&d1=20101021&h=300&w=600' height='300' width='600' frameborder='0' scrolling='no'></iframe><br />source: <a href='https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/unemployment-rate'>tradingeconomics.com</a>


<iframe src='https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/embed/?s=nzlfuner&v=202010162300V20200908&d1=19951025&h=300&w=600' height='300' width='600' frameborder='0' scrolling='no'></iframe><br />source: <a href='https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/unemployment-rate'>tradingeconomics.com</a>
https://figure.nz/chart/io3DKa3cOWJhf4Q8/download
https://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Screen-Shot-2020-08-05-at-12.03.08-PM.png

https://i.imgur.com/OabuhlD.pnghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL4NIDBW4AAVPck.jpg


“Judith Collins "New Zealand, let me be straight with you. Communities, livelihoods, futures are at stake.
“Yes, it requires historic debt, but more importantly a team you can trust to manage it,”

[F5 Dave]

With half nation on welfare now after covid joblosses the result is no surprise really, no one bites the hand that feeds them.
The greens are becoming irrelevant with labour very green tinted and the dope referendum taking care of the other half of voter base.
As Demon said Winston is toast...
ACT got all the gun owners and also people who are sick of pc culture. Didn’t vote for him but had chance encounter with David around time he was talking right to free speech after the chch thing.
One few people who speaks his mind publicly.

No excuse now for Labour to not deliver on their promises although I didn’t hear many this time round. Perhaps they will just try catch up on all the targets they failed to deliver from 2017...
Well Husi came in with graphs and shit but jesus man, it's not hard to fact check your complete delusion. Are you like Trump? Just spout any old idea that pops in your head and decide it must be true.

Cheer up man, it's not as doom and gloom as you have convinced yourself.

[pritch]

People, presumably not Labour supporters, love to moan about our economy. Maybe they don't read much overseas news but most, if not all, countries are suffering from the COVID hit to their economy. The IMF is telling nations to borrow in order to stimulate their economies and to take advantage of the current low interest rates.

The alternative is to act like the US which is doing a fine impression of a rabbit caught in headlights.

[husaberg]

People, presumably not Labour supporters, love to moan about our economy. Maybe they don't read much overseas news but most, if not all, countries are suffering from the COVID hit to their economy. The IMF is telling nations to borrow in order to stimulate their economies and to take advantage of the current low interest rates.

The alternative is to act like the US which is doing a fine impression of a rabbit caught in headlights.

NZ going to go through stuff pretty serious in the near future as we are very reliant on tourism which isn't going to happen due to whats going on in the rest of the world.

hopefully, with less green influence some of the more silly potential environmental rules will not be implemented
rules such as not plugging crop paddocks and having crop paddocks back into grass before OCT are not [practically workable under all regions.
Some people need to realise people crop and standoff cattle to avoid damaging pasture on the entire farm and so the stock have something to eat later.
No farming system is closer to nature, than NZ grasslands arable farming systems.We are the world's best. its our only competitive advantage other than a mild climate

The issue is more to do with urbanite perception rather the rural reality.

[ellipsis]

The issue is more to do with urbanite perception rather the rural reality.


...hard one to bridge...unaware, is ignorance of where your bread is buttered...

...more like the cruel reality...

...but hey, a fuckwit with a mouse and a latte can fix this shit, anytime...

...cum on you gweens...

[husaberg]

A farewell poem for ... Jami-Lee Ross
New Zealand's semi-official poet laureate Victor Billot pens topical verse every Sunday.
Today: the undearly departed Jami-Lee Ross.


Non, je ne regrette rien


You are out Jami! Out of the loop.

Out of Botany. Out of National. Deep in the poop.


You sold out. You shacked up with that dingbat TK.

You thought this plandemic was a hand you could play.


Peddling misinformation to vulnerable peeps!

You’ve dug a big hole, several miles deep.


It’s getting hot in here. The lights blaze on down.

This annoying woman keeps telling you you’re a clown.


You reply in defence, I asked the hard questions, as you do!

Let me tell you about my expertise on clown flu.


That don’t cut the mustard, Jami old chap.

You are trampled over, quite rudely, in this ghastly trap.


Smoking ruins all around suggest you called it wrong.

Non, je ne regrette rien, may be your swansong.


Poor Jami. Your prognosis is dim it seems –

but you need not fear of Covid-19.


It is on national TV you suffered plenty:

the brutal ravages of Tova-20.

[mashman]

Well Husi came in with graphs and shit but jesus man, it's not hard to fact check your complete delusion. Are you like Trump? Just spout any old idea that pops in your head and decide it must be true.

Cheer up man, it's not as doom and gloom as you have convinced yourself.

"With half nation on welfare" != Number of people unemployed... jesus man, it's not hard to fact check your complete delusion. Are you like Trump? Just spout any old idea that pops in your head and decide it must be true.

Cheer up man, it's not as doom and gloom as you have convinced yourself, it's worse.

[mashman]

The alternative is to act like the US which is doing a fine impression of a rabbit caught in headlights.

There are plenty of alternatives. Mimicking Japan's money creation process being probably one of the more sensible ones given what's taking place... but hey, there only other alternative is to act like the US......... my god and you people are allowed to vote.

[husaberg]

There are plenty of alternatives. Mimicking Japan's money creation process being probably one of the more sensible ones given what's taking place... but hey, there only other alternative is to act like the US......... my god and you people are allowed to vote.

You really should stand for parliament, You know if your ideas are any good you would romp in..............
If they are truly shit, I expect you would get about 100 votes.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/election-2020/electorates

[Swoop]

Winston.

Say what you will, but he did have a levelling influence (on both parties) of utter madness.
Stopping the Dominion Rd tram project, for one instance.

Now we have a Foreign Minister who will stand out at international meetings, not only because of her lunatic ideals, but also from a facial tatoo.
Cuturally appropriate within NZ, but will be denigrated overseas. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out over time...

[FJRider]

Now we have a Foreign Minister who will stand out at international meetings, not only because of her lunatic ideals, but also from a facial tatoo.
Cuturally appropriate within NZ, but will be denigrated overseas. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out over time...

And most Asian and Muslim country Politicians will not like having to talk with ... let alone make deals with ... a WOMAN.

[RDJ]

And most Asian and Muslim country Politicians will not like having to talk with ... let alone make deals with ... a WOMAN.

I think I'd wait for the DNA result first.

[FJRider]

I think I'd wait for the DNA result first.

Good point ... :shifty:

[pritch]

Good point ... :shifty:

That may not even be the biggest distraction.

[FJRider]

That may not even be the biggest distraction.

Pointedly ... Size matters ... :innocent:



Apparently ... <_<

[Banditbandit]

And most Asian and Muslim country Politicians will not like having to talk with ... let alone make deals with ... a WOMAN.

Well - they have to deal with the many women prime ministers and presidents around the world - including Muslim ones such as (former) Benazir Bhutto, Indian prime minister Indira Gandhi (both of whom were elected in 1) Muslim Pakistan and 2) India with a huge Muslim population ..

Why should we pander to their stupidity?

[R650R]

"With half nation on welfare" != Number of people unemployed... jesus man, it's not hard to fact check your complete delusion. Are you like Trump? Just spout any old idea that pops in your head and decide it must be true.

Cheer up man, it's not as doom and gloom as you have convinced yourself, it's worse.

Chill out dude, eve heard of a sweeping generalisation. This is not the high school national debate championship, it's like bar room banter.

Don't worry the numbers will catch up anyway now, people who don't want to work know they got a sweet ride for three years at least.

I wish I had the skills of trump love or hate him. He's great in terms of debating an idea and putting things across in a way the whole audience understands. Bit like the good ol days of Winston but perhaps a bit looser on the facts lol
You can see why he was successful in business, he identifies what needs doing and gets people in action.

[mashman]

Chill out dude, eve heard of a sweeping generalisation. This is not the high school national debate championship, it's like bar room banter.

Don't worry the numbers will catch up anyway now, people who don't want to work know they got a sweet ride for three years at least.

I wish I had the skills of trump love or hate him. He's great in terms of debating an idea and putting things across in a way the whole audience understands. Bit like the good ol days of Winston but perhaps a bit looser on the facts lol
You can see why he was successful in business, he identifies what needs doing and gets people in action.

Yea, my bad, I should just leave the ignorant fuckers be...........

[Kickaha]

You can see why he was successful in business

I guess if you consider shafting your creditors with multiple bankruptcies successful

[F5 Dave]

Everyone loves a weltcher.

Especially when those people with driven passion are dealt a fatal blow as it didn't suit someone else's need for greed.

There's always suicide for comfort .

[husaberg]

Everyone loves a weltcher.

Especially when those people with driven passion are dealt a fatal blow as it didn't suit someone else's need for greed.

There's always suicide for comfort .

Trump, for he knows how to speak for the stupid people.............

[Banditbandit]

Yea, my bad, I should just leave the ignorant fuckers be...........

Exactly why my involvement here is so low it is nearly non-existent. I got sick of ignorant fuckers ..