Beehive occupation.

[pete376403]

I see they have tried to take up digs a at Wainui marae. They'll get a good kicking there.

Nope, wouldn't let them in.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/03/03/residents-block-protesters-from-wainuiomata-marae/

Last I heard they may possibly be at Kaitoke, near the bottom of the Rimutakas (sorry rEmutakas)

[Kickaha]

Well, fooled me...

Not as though that's particularly hard to do

[F5 Dave]

Nope, wouldn't let them in.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/03/03/residents-block-protesters-from-wainuiomata-marae/

Last I heard they may possibly be at Kaitoke, near the bottom of the Rimutakas (sorry rEmutakas)
Ah, near Rivendell. Gandalf will gettim ;)

[jellywrestler]

I see they have tried to take up digs a at Wainui marae. They'll get a good kicking there.

the same place that was a vaccine station and the same place that already saw wankers protest about being a vaccine station, and now those same people want to stay there?????
ha fucking ha

[caseye]

This is the dregs of the Wellington protest, animals who only ever wanted to literally fight authority, doesn't/didn't matter how that authority was perceived.
Not one of em with a job to be at/go to, not one of them caring about imposing their will on other ordinary citizens. Hey we're mostly brown and just like you, let us in!!! Not like them at all, those folks at the Wainui marae are doing great work protecting the entire population of their region and helping in a responsible and caring manner any who need assistance. They work hard, they care for others, they contribute to society, they are vaslued members of New Zealands ordinary citizens and I genuinely saltue them and theirs.
By close of day on Wednesday at parliament it became obvious who was fueling the riots, young,unemployed, oblivious to the own actions impacting on ordinary citizesn, as they themselves claim to be.
Gutless wonders who throw rocks at well equipped and possibly armed police, wanting a response that they can shout from the roof tops, was not warranted, look at us, poor sodden freedom (ah, radicalised, brain washed, irresponsible thugs) fighters.
None of whom I'd ever allow to uter a single word on my behalf.
Not a fan of being told what to do now or ever, but when the greater good is at stake, it's what right thinking ordinary folks with a healthy respect for the past and what it leads to,:devil2: do.
It's not forever and if they thought this right through they might have determined that thier actions (all of them) have simply prolonged this entire avoidable debacle and the continued infliction of mandates.
The sprinklers being turned on I initially thought wasn't a bad idea, the playing of Bary Manilo, Na (cruelity to animals that was), changed my mind on the spriklers, Trevor Mallard is a twat! a selfish self centred blatantly Labour Speaker of the house who should have been made to quit at least twice in the last few years for atrociously wrong decisions and directives to people who should not have followed his lead.
Seems we'll have mandates just long enough for those who lost their jobs because of them would otherwise have simply been accepted back into their professions, ironic isn't it, that these dickheads helped to length the mandate period by at least 23-27 days.
I've been on many protest runs, helped to organsie some, I've also been on the side of the thin blue line, from my own experience, there were some at Wellington who genuinely felt agrieved enough to protest, the bulk of the rest are simply travelling anarchists who tag along in case the opportunity to physically fight authority arises.
This group need to be hered into a canyon, the rocks above them blown down on them and left to rot!

[jellywrestler]

The sprinklers being turned on I initially thought wasn't a bad idea,

they were testing them in case of fire, and guess what, when the fires came they all were extinguished, top marks that man,

[MD]

Ah, near Rivendell. Gandalf will gettim ;)

Thou shall not pass

[pete376403]

This is the dregs of the Wellington protest, animals who only ever wanted to literally fight authority, doesn't/didn't matter how that authority was perceived.
Not one of em with a job to be at/go to, not one of them caring about imposing their will on other ordinary citizens. Hey we're mostly brown and just like you, let us in!!! Not like them at all, those folks at the Wainui marae are doing great work protecting the entire population of their region and helping in a responsible and caring manner any who need assistance. They work hard, they care for others, they contribute to society, they are vaslued members of New Zealands ordinary citizens and I genuinely saltue them and theirs.
By close of day on Wednesday at parliament it became obvious who was fueling the riots, young,unemployed, oblivious to the own actions impacting on ordinary citizesn, as they themselves claim to be.
Gutless wonders who throw rocks at well equipped and possibly armed police, wanting a response that they can shout from the roof tops, was not warranted, look at us, poor sodden freedom (ah, radicalised, brain washed, irresponsible thugs) fighters.


And all living on a welfare benefit of some description, paid to them by a Government they say they do not trust and is out to get them.

[mulletman]

Id say 95% are decent :grouphug: people who were at the protest the other 5% troublemakers :facepalm:



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+real+camp+freedom%2Cwelli ngton


:corn:

[F5 Dave]

I'd say 30% were disillusioned good people lead astray by cunts spreading disinformation. 20% were angry Yong men. 30% were mentally unwell and the last 20% were complete cunts.

Don't try to say the dreadful behaviour is 5%ers.thats just apologistic shit.

[jellywrestler]

Id say 95% are decent :grouphug: people who were at the protest the other 5% troublemakers :facepalm:



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+real+camp+freedom%2Cwelli ngton


:corn:

if you lie down with dogs you get fleas as the old saying goes

[Kickaha]

Not as newsworthy as the Parliament protest but they have one going on at Cranmer square in Chch, which is causing some of the local residents a bit of grief, send all those cops down here to clean them up now they've they've had some practice

[jellywrestler]

Not as newsworthy as the Parliament protest but they have one going on at Cranmer square in Chch, which is causing some of the local residents a bit of grief, send all those cops down here to clean them up now they've they've had some practice

And sweep through the picton one too on the way down?

[Laava]

Fuck, are those cunts still in Picton as well!
https://youtu.be/_mem_nhhUEU

[neels]

Fuck, are those cunts still in Picton as well!
https://youtu.be/_mem_nhhUEU
Nope, they were packing up on Thursday arvo after getting their marching orders, all gone and cleaned up passing today.

Looked like a few of them had set up shop in a paddock a bit up the road, but well out of the way and easily ignored.

[pritch]

There's a clip circulating of protestors shouting their demands at Government House. The press are referring to this grab bag of fuckwits as "anti mandate."
That's nonsense. These people's demands are straight out of Q Anon. They are sovereign citizens, they have sucked up any insanity they saw on the Internet.
Any still in Welligton should be sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

[jellywrestler]

Any still in Welligton should be sectioned under the Mental Health Act. they'll be waiting to get their cars back

[Kickaha]

They are such a pack of fucktards

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/protester-comes-forward-after-anti-mandate-crowd-accuse-him-of-being-police-plant-antifa-infiltrator-or-clarke-gayford/ar-AAUHPEZ?ocid=msedgntp

[F5 Dave]

Well, it kinda makes sense that it was really Clarke Gayford.

PM: look Clarke, these guys are really getting on my tits. Look at what they've done to the grass, and next it will be the shrubbery. Go sort them out. Be the inside man.
CG: Hon, I think they'll recognize me from the TV.
PM: oh really Clarke. No one actually watches your fishing shows, we just keep nzonair funding those to keep you occupied.
CG: ok, perhaps I should go talk to them
PM: good idea. And Clarke. Go to stores and check out a vest in case they get a bit Stabbie.

[mulletman]

Well, it kinda makes sense that it was really Clarke Gayford.

PM: look Clarke, these guys are really getting on my tits. Look at what they've done to the grass, and next it will be the shrubbery. Go sort them out. Be the inside man.
CG: Hon, I think they'll recognize me from the TV.
PM: oh really Clarke. No one actually watches your fishing shows, we just keep nzonair funding those to keep you occupied.
CG: ok, perhaps I should go talk to them
PM: good idea. And Clarke. Go to stores and check out a vest in case they get a bit Stabbie.

Nah Clarke was busy in court at the time so it couldnt be him

Jacinda's not wearing her engagement ring now...

[pritch]

Nah Clarke was busy in court at the time so it couldnt be him


Twitter is fulll of Clarke Gayford, after the lunatic fringe had him shagging the nanny and wearing an ankle bracelet more sane people have recovered the space.

Clarke Gayford spelled backwards is dorfyag ekralc. Coincidence? I think not.
Clarke Gayford put the stripes in toothpaste.
Clarke Gayford puts Lego on your floor at night
Clarke Gayford cheats at Wordle

And on and on and on...

[R650R]

Oh oh this is too hilarious to not share....

They’re now digging in at marsden point.... while I agree we shouldn’t lose this strategic asset what do they think they will accomplish, arecthey going to charter their own crude tankers???!


https://youtu.be/5L_KJADX3zU


https://youtu.be/5eJgnovDpjA

[pzkpfw]

It needs the same thing that would cure much terrorism.

Jobs, and some "comfort" resulting from them.

The World needs to find a way for people to do something, to have something. With less time to waste, and having stuff they don't want to waste: they get less interested in the various kinds of fucking around they get up to.

A lot of the futurists saw a time when technology (robots, computers, ...) would do much of the work and we'd all spend more time at the tennis club. I say bollocks to that. It'd just multiply the number of people with time for being arses.

Not saying we need work camps like in the great depression, but we need something.

[TheDemonLord]

It needs the same thing that would cure much terrorism.

Jobs, and some "comfort" resulting from them.

The World needs to find a way for people to do something, to have something. With less time to waste, and having stuff they don't want to waste: they get less interested in the various kinds of fucking around they get up to.

A lot of the futurists saw a time when technology (robots, computers, ...) would do much of the work and we'd all spend more time at the tennis club. I say bollocks to that. It'd just multiply the number of people with time for being arses.

Not saying we need work camps like in the great depression, but we need something.

I entirely agree - if you've ever read about the Rat Utopia experiment, there seems to be a lot of parallels there.

One conjecture is why you see certain types of successful people take up things like Marathon running or other pursuits that involve artificial 'suffering', something to push them and something to do.

[pete376403]

It needs the same thing that would cure much terrorism.

Jobs, and some "comfort" resulting from them.

The World needs to find a way for people to do something, to have something. With less time to waste, and having stuff they don't want to waste: they get less interested in the various kinds of fucking around they get up to.

A lot of the futurists saw a time when technology (robots, computers, ...) would do much of the work and we'd all spend more time at the tennis club. I say bollocks to that. It'd just multiply the number of people with time for being arses.

Not saying we need work camps like in the great depression, but we need something.

Thats what major wars are for - use up the surplus young males, make lots of money for the producers of materiel

[HenryDorsetCase]

It needs the same thing that would cure much terrorism.

Jobs, and some "comfort" resulting from them.

The World needs to find a way for people to do something, to have something. With less time to waste, and having stuff they don't want to waste: they get less interested in the various kinds of fucking around they get up to.

A lot of the futurists saw a time when technology (robots, computers, ...) would do much of the work and we'd all spend more time at the tennis club. I say bollocks to that. It'd just multiply the number of people with time for being arses.

Not saying we need work camps like in the great depression, but we need something.

something something BRAVE NEW WORLD

[R650R]

A different perspective on consequences....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300579688/whats-the-price-to-pay-for-trampling-marae-tikanga-during-antimandate-protests

[R650R]

Thoroughly cringeworthy interview with a “ disinformation expert”.....

Watch the lovely interviewers reaction as he misappropriates (I hate that term) the chch quake in a real badly thought out metaphor and she hauls him up on it....
As usual very little of substance.....


https://youtu.be/MzzDa5MKyso

[husaberg]

Thoroughly cringeworthy interview with a “ disinformation expert”.....

Watch the lovely interviewers reaction as he misappropriates (I hate that term) the chch quake in a real badly thought out metaphor and she hauls him up on it....
As usual very little of substance.....


https://youtu.be/MzzDa5MKyso

Thats a big call for you to make considering
1 you often spread disinformation and do so on purpose as you are a troll and sometimes are you are too silly to figure out you are not an expert as you read something on the web
2 often go on about woke people making too big a deal of non-PC comments.

[pritch]

Thoroughly cringeworthy interview with a “ disinformation expert”.....

Watch the lovely interviewers reaction as he misappropriates (I hate that term) the chch quake in a real badly thought out metaphor and she hauls him up on it....
As usual very little of substance.....



Unsurprisingly I saw it rather differently to you. His earthquake analogy was fine. She mentioned upsetting ralatives of the dead and injured which was overly sensitive. Is the earthquake never to be mentioned again?

The problem was that the interviewers particularly the woman, had no idea of the subject matter. She asked their 'expert' about foreign influence, apparently under the impression that if the sites were NZ based that ruled out foreign influence. Almost as if she believed the dozen or so problem accounts never read anything from overseas.

[R650R]

Quite surprised that we own 17 LRADs in NZ.
They have been around for about 20 years. There are also microwave versions which are known to cause burning sensation to skinny tissue....

I have no problem with them being used in riot situations.

What’s really interesting me is who was in office when they were ordered/purchased. Who foresaw such serious public unrest coming thatvthey thought lil ol NZ needed these tools when we struggle with the idea of arming cops against gangsters....

And boy oh boy won’t Gomez be getting a right reaming from Jacinda for essentially calling current govt/police actions Tyranny!!!


https://youtu.be/5q0ngnqxZXM

[pete376403]

And boy oh boy won’t Gomez be getting a right reaming from Jacinda for essentially calling current govt/police actions Tyranny!!!

Why? Golriz Ghahraman is not a Labour party member - NZ Greens. The Greens are not the Government and Members of other parties are free to express their own opinions.

[TheDemonLord]

Why? Golriz Ghahraman is not a Labour party member - NZ Greens. The Greens are not the Government and Members of other parties are free to express their own opinions.

Point of Order:

What is the difference between the Current Greens and Current Labour?

[pete376403]

Point of Order:


What is the difference between the Current Greens and Current Labour?

That Labour is the Government (by virtue of winning an absolute majority in the 2020 election) and the Greens are not?

[TheDemonLord]

That Labour is the Government (by virtue of winning an absolute majority in the 2020 election) and the Greens are not?

Well... Hang up a sec there, last I checked:

"Greens agreed to cooperate with the Labour majority government, and Shaw was re-appointed as the Minister for Climate Change"

Sure, Labour have an absolute majority, but the Greens are still in the Government, by virtue of having an appointed Minister.

[pete376403]

Well... Hang up a sec there, last I checked:

"Greens agreed to cooperate with the Labour majority government, and Shaw was re-appointed as the Minister for Climate Change"

Sure, Labour have an absolute majority, but the Greens are still in the Government, by virtue of having an appointed Minister.

The Green-Labour cooperation agreement includes:

Nature of agreement
3. The Green Party agrees to support the Labour Government by not opposing votes on matters of
confidence and supply for the full term of this Parliament. In addition, the Green Party will support
the Labour Government on procedural motions in the House and at Select Committees on the
terms set out in this agreement. This will provide New Zealanders with the certainty of a strong,
stable Labour Government with support from the Green Party over the next three years.
4. The Green Party will determine its own position in relation to any policy or legislative matter not
covered by the Ministerial portfolios and areas of cooperation set out in this agreement. Differences
of position within such portfolios and areas of cooperation will be managed in accordance with this
agreement.
5. The Labour Government in turn commits to working constructively with the Green Party to advance
the policy goals set out in this agreement, alongside Labour’s policy programme.
Ministerial positions
6. The Labour Government’s priorities for this term centre on a COVID-19 recovery plan. This includes
the implementation of Labour’s manifesto promises and five point economic plan, with a focus on
investing in our people and preparing for the future.
7. The Green Party’s aspirations include enabling a Just Transition to a zero-carbon economy;
supporting equity, compassion and inclusive communities; ensuring ecosystems, indigenous
species and their habitats thrive; and cultivating a flourishing democracy founded on Te Tiriti o
Waitangi.
8. This agreement supports the advance of the Government’s priorities by allocating portfolios and
establishing areas of cooperation that are consistent with the direction and goals of the Labour
Government, as well as contributing to addressing the Green Party’s aspirations.
9. The Green Party will hold the following portfolios outside of Cabinet:
A. Marama Davidson will be appointed to the position of Minister for the Prevention of
Family and Sexual Violence and Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness).
B. Hon James Shaw will be appointed to the position of Minister of Climate Change and
Associate Minister for the Environment (Biodiversity).
10. The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence will be the lead Minister for the whole
of government response on family and sexual violence with the mandate to coordinate Budget bids
in this area. The Minister will also be a member of the ad hoc Ministerial group on the Child and Youth
Wellbeing Strategy.
11. These Ministerial portfolios also reflect areas where Green Party expertise provides a valuable
contribution to the Labour Government.
12. Ministers from the Green Party will attend Cabinet Committees for items relevant to their portfolios
and receive Cabinet Papers relevant to their portfolios, as provided for in the Cabinet Manual.

[TheDemonLord]

The Green-Labour cooperation agreement includes:

Nature of agreement
3. The Green Party agrees to support the Labour Government by not opposing votes on matters of
confidence and supply for the full term of this Parliament. In addition, the Green Party will support
the Labour Government on procedural motions in the House and at Select Committees on the
terms set out in this agreement. This will provide New Zealanders with the certainty of a strong,
stable Labour Government with support from the Green Party over the next three years.
4. The Green Party will determine its own position in relation to any policy or legislative matter not
covered by the Ministerial portfolios and areas of cooperation set out in this agreement. Differences
of position within such portfolios and areas of cooperation will be managed in accordance with this
agreement.
5. The Labour Government in turn commits to working constructively with the Green Party to advance
the policy goals set out in this agreement, alongside Labour’s policy programme.
Ministerial positions
6. The Labour Government’s priorities for this term centre on a COVID-19 recovery plan. This includes
the implementation of Labour’s manifesto promises and five point economic plan, with a focus on
investing in our people and preparing for the future.
7. The Green Party’s aspirations include enabling a Just Transition to a zero-carbon economy;
supporting equity, compassion and inclusive communities; ensuring ecosystems, indigenous
species and their habitats thrive; and cultivating a flourishing democracy founded on Te Tiriti o
Waitangi.
8. This agreement supports the advance of the Government’s priorities by allocating portfolios and
establishing areas of cooperation that are consistent with the direction and goals of the Labour
Government, as well as contributing to addressing the Green Party’s aspirations.
9. The Green Party will hold the following portfolios outside of Cabinet:
A. Marama Davidson will be appointed to the position of Minister for the Prevention of
Family and Sexual Violence and Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness).
B. Hon James Shaw will be appointed to the position of Minister of Climate Change and
Associate Minister for the Environment (Biodiversity).
10. The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence will be the lead Minister for the whole
of government response on family and sexual violence with the mandate to coordinate Budget bids
in this area. The Minister will also be a member of the ad hoc Ministerial group on the Child and Youth
Wellbeing Strategy.
11. These Ministerial portfolios also reflect areas where Green Party expertise provides a valuable
contribution to the Labour Government.
12. Ministers from the Green Party will attend Cabinet Committees for items relevant to their portfolios
and receive Cabinet Papers relevant to their portfolios, as provided for in the Cabinet Manual.

Considering the Protests were about Covid-19, that would be in breach of this agreement as per point 6.

[R650R]

Why? Golriz Ghahraman is not a Labour party member - NZ Greens. The Greens are not the Government and Members of other parties are free to express their own opinions.

Like a man and women unmarried but living together Greens and Labour’s life of sin is a clear Defacto Coalition government especially with all the evidence listed in the other posts.
Given that’s govt is a business this unnecessary “coalition” should be prosecuted under the new cartel laws as its preventing a competitive environment and nz user said of govt services may not be getting best value for taxes.

[pete376403]

Like a man and women unmarried but living together Greens and Labour’s life of sin is a clear Defacto Coalition government especially with all the evidence listed in the other posts.
Given that’s govt is a business this unnecessary “coalition” should be prosecuted under the new cartel laws as its preventing a competitive environment and nz user said of govt services may not be getting best value for taxes.

You off your meds again?

[R650R]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-warning-protest-action-aims-to-cause-motorway-mayhem/ITD3AGGP76ZO4NEM6RA73N4HEM/

I wonder if police would issue same alert when climate mob next do same thing?????

Interestingly at end of article apparently a proper survey of immigrants from the worlds 200 most horrible country tried to live rated nz second to last out of 52 countries they could go to.
That says something when if your virtually stateless as well as homeless that you don’t really want to come to our welfare state wokestania first....

Apparently Mexico is very popular.... maybe being able to make your own choices without interference from nanny state is a recipe for success after all, even for those who might need help. It’s time we took a hard look at how we run our society here.

Btw that was a survey of 12,000 so decent sample size

[husaberg]

[url]

Apparently Mexico is very popular.... maybe being able to make your own choices without interference from nanny state is a recipe for success after all, even for those who might need help. It’s time we took a hard look at how we run our society here.


Maybe you should move to Mexico you clearly don't like it here. You could drive a truck to deliver drugs for the cartels.

[F5 Dave]

Hell, we'll all chip in if you fuck off.

[R650R]

So I watched and FFWD through a bit of the new protest march today. Of note was during the down with labour/greens rant you say labour I say liars chants etc; they included ACT and said it in tone almost like a tobacco chewer spitting in bucket.
They didnÂ’t bag National though maybe they wildly dream of collation partner for new party.
Anyway all a bit odd or perhaps not.
Of note was the presence of Anti Fascist (antifa) in the anti protest group supporting govt....
The best thing though is that nothing really happened....

Despite the govt and media behaving like it was going to be an Arab spring style colour revolution with more bonfires nothing happened. Perhaps we have a proper democracy after all if the govt fears the people more than people fear the govt.

On way home from work stuck at traffic lights a lone protester who obviously couldn’t make Wellington stood holding a sign. He was getting lots of friendly support toots just like a nurses or firemen strike might get. I think come election time Aderns mob is going to face most humiliating defeat in NZ electoral history. From a “ mandate to govern” to a clear eviction notice.

A final note reporters in their pro govt bias have made fun of protestors broken messsge. Well yes they have no one clear message but one thing is clear. Lots of people are unhappy about pretty much every policy this govt has come up with.

[pete376403]

Wasnt so much of a protest as a Tamaki "another-new-party" announcement. Must be hoping for more than the 14000 votes they got last time. Also 2000 people (at the protest) is not "lots". I think we had more for the Bikoi

"...I think come election time Aderns mob is going to face most humiliating defeat in NZ electoral history" Given the accuracy of your previous predictions I reckon Labour will be thrilled

[Dadpole]

Well yes they have no one clear message but one thing is clear. Lots of morons are unhappy about pretty much any policy any govt has come up with.

Fixed it for you. :niceone:

[TheDemonLord]

Fixed it for you. :niceone:

Well, I'll admit I laughed - however on a serious note - if you look at all the various groups and all their various grievances and look at the meta-issue, it really comes down to people are angry about 2 key things:

1: The Government infringing on individual liberties.
2: The Government treating people differently based on protected characteristics.

There's some other stuff as well, I see a lot of unhappiness around 3 waters - and that can be described as Nationalizing locally owned assets - and when we put all three together, the picture becomes a lot clearer:

Socialists gonna Socialism.

[MD]

The Authorities need to identify and apprehend the person/s who tried to throw eggs at Tamaki and give them some training to help improve their aim next time.

[husaberg]

The Authorities need to identify and apprehend the person/s who tried to throw eggs at Tamaki and give them some rocks

Edited it .....:bleh::bleh:

[pritch]

The turnout was unimpressive. It was mainly a publicity stunt for Tamaki, hopefully the low numbers will convince him that nobody gives a fuck about his new party.
I wouldn't bet on it though.

[Laava]

The LuxonTamaki party? The Tamaban?

[jellywrestler]

The turnout was unimpressive. It was mainly a publicity stunt for Tamaki, hopefully the low numbers will convince him that nobody gives a fuck about his new party.
I wouldn't bet on it though.

didn't he get the message from his million man march a few weeks ago that was a few hundred?

[Grumph]

There's some other stuff as well, I see a lot of unhappiness around 3 waters - and that can be described as Nationalizing locally owned assets - and when we put all three together, the picture becomes a lot clearer:


I don't usually quote you - because you talk shit.

In this case 3 waters could be the saving of some areas of the country. Where we used to live - rural Selwyn - there was and still is a flooding problem and a water supply problem. Both are fixable with the application of money. Selwyn is one of if not the richest districts in NZ - but the money gets spent on Rolleston not the rural side of the place. I see 3 waters as a levelling of the playing field - where every location has an equal opportunity to have working services.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't usually quote you - because you talk shit.

In this case 3 waters could be the saving of some areas of the country. Where we used to live - rural Selwyn - there was and still is a flooding problem and a water supply problem. Both are fixable with the application of money. Selwyn is one of if not the richest districts in NZ - but the money gets spent on Rolleston not the rural side of the place. I see 3 waters as a levelling of the playing field - where every location has an equal opportunity to have working services.

That's been the claim of every single nationalized/socialized system.

And the history of the efficiency of such systems is long, storied and full of failures with very few successes.

Case in point - how's it working for NZ's roads? I'm seeing a myriad of Stuff articles from various regions complaining about 3rd world roads.
Or KiwiRail?
Or Telecom?

The theory is great, the reality is wildly different - the reality is that everyone will get the same worse service.

However, the centralization of Assets and Governance leads to a different problem - consider your location of Selwyn - you have a problem, currently in your district, your voice is 1/65,000 - which if we factor in that approx 25% of them won't be eligible to vote - so call it 50,000 people - so any issue that affects you is 1/50,000 of the vote.

Now run the same details with it being nationalized 1 out of 5 Million which again factoring in voting age, it's 1 in 3.75 million.

Here's the question - which is going to be easier to make your voice heard? 1 in 50,000 or 1 in 3,750,000? Your vote matters 75 times more to your local council than it does to a national election.

[pete376403]

That's been the claim of every single nationalized/socialized system.

And the history of the efficiency of such systems is long, storied and full of failures with very few successes.

Case in point - how's it working for NZ's roads? I'm seeing a myriad of Stuff articles from various regions complaining about 3rd world roads.
Or KiwiRail?
Or Telecom?

The theory is great, the reality is wildly different - the reality is that everyone will get the same worse service.

However, the centralization of Assets and Governance leads to a different problem - consider your location of Selwyn - you have a problem, currently in your district, your voice is 1/65,000 - which if we factor in that approx 25% of them won't be eligible to vote - so call it 50,000 people - so any issue that affects you is 1/50,000 of the vote.

Now run the same details with it being nationalized 1 out of 5 Million which again factoring in voting age, it's 1 in 3.75 million.

Here's the question - which is going to be easier to make your voice heard? 1 in 50,000 or 1 in 3,750,000? Your vote matters 75 times more to your local council than it does to a national election.

Because privatisation of water is always so much better (especially for the management of these companies)

https://news.sky.com/story/huge-increase-in-raw-sewage-released-into-uk-waterways-and-sea-data-reveals-12677730
https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/water-company-executive-bonuses-sewage-b2147947.html

[Grumph]

Case in point - how's it working for NZ's roads? I'm seeing a myriad of Stuff articles from various regions complaining about 3rd world roads.


Here's the question - which is going to be easier to make your voice heard? 1 in 50,000 or 1 in 3,750,000? Your vote matters 75 times more to your local council than it does to a national election.

First point, roads. Lowest tender gets the maintenance contract. At least in the SI, only one firm can do a decent job - and in Selwyn they only get called in after the regular contractor's work has failed - twice. If the contracts were performance based the roads would be better.

Second point - being heard. Selwyn has just cut our old ward from 2 councillors to one. Rolleston gets another. Chance of being heard at the Council table just took a 50% cut. It's a bloody big ward too.

[TheDemonLord]

First point, roads. Lowest tender gets the maintenance contract. At least in the SI, only one firm can do a decent job - and in Selwyn they only get called in after the regular contractor's work has failed - twice. If the contracts were performance based the roads would be better.

Something something do it once, do it right something
vs
something something #8 wire, she'll be right something

I don't disagree with the comment about terrible maintenance - only to say that is exactly what will happen under 3Waters.


Second point - being heard. Selwyn has just cut our old ward from 2 councillors to one. Rolleston gets another. Chance of being heard at the Council table just took a 50% cut. It's a bloody big ward too.

Which Sucks - does it change how much representation you are likely to get at the National Level?

I mean - if I use the Gun law changes as an example - that's a voting block that is about 4-5 times the size of Selwyn District - and they didn't give a flying fuck.

[TheDemonLord]

Because privatisation of water is always so much better (especially for the management of these companies)

https://news.sky.com/story/huge-increase-in-raw-sewage-released-into-uk-waterways-and-sea-data-reveals-12677730
https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/water-company-executive-bonuses-sewage-b2147947.html

I didn't say Privatisation though, did I?

Infrastructure is one of those things that is a Natural Monopoly. It sucks, I don't like it, but it's reality. As such - Privatization isn't generally a good idea - nor is full nationalization.

Small-ish and locally managed seems to be the better option - because the organization is small enough to change as needed and the proximity to the people the institution serves is small - so when something goes bad, it's easier for people to instigate change to get it fixed.

[neels]

Small-ish and locally managed seems to be the better option - because the organization is small enough to change as needed and the proximity to the people the institution serves is small - so when something goes bad, it's easier for people to instigate change to get it fixed.
Except for the small and local who manage to fuck things up, which is something councils are pretty good at.

In the case of water fucked it up enough that we've got chlorine in our water now, the same water that can come out of the same ground and goes into bottles to be sold overseas.

Or massive rates increases to fix broken infrastructure, because of money being spent on shiny things instead of maintenance.

To be honest, the most prevalent reason I've seen for people opposing 3 waters is the belief that the government is going to give it all to 'the bloody maoris'

[TheDemonLord]

Except for the small and local who manage to fuck things up, which is something councils are pretty good at.

In the case of water fucked it up enough that we've got chlorine in our water now, the same water that can come out of the same ground and goes into bottles to be sold overseas.

Or massive rates increases to fix broken infrastructure, because of money being spent on shiny things instead of maintenance.

To be honest, the most prevalent reason I've seen for people opposing 3 waters is the belief that the government is going to give it all to 'the bloody maoris'

None of which I particularly disagree with - the only point would be to point to Scale.

Councils and Government are pretty much the same - Massive Rates increases vs Massive Tax increases because of money spent on Shiny instead of Maintenance.

The only difference is that the Government is able to fuck things up on a much larger scale than the Council.

Interestingly enough - there's a Maori fellow that goes to my Local Gym who is opposed to it because he doesn't want it sold off to johnny foreigner.

[R650R]

Wasnt so much of a protest as a Tamaki "another-new-party" announcement. Must be hoping for more than the 14000 votes they got last time. Also 2000 people (at the protest) is not "lots". I think we had more for the Bikoi

"...I think come election time Aderns mob is going to face most humiliating defeat in NZ electoral history" Given the accuracy of your previous predictions I reckon Labour will be thrilled

I find it quite entertaining that several media commentators decided to relabel the protest as a political party event. I guess they were diss appointed it was a peaceful protest compared to the other extreme of a “ mostly peaceful protest” (Tm CNN news).

What’s that saying you can’t make someone look like a dictator but you can’t let them behave like one? So if now it’s a political party launch event instead of protest (and govt Intel would know) then we now have our Banana republic leader literally putting up barriers and screaming fire in the theatre just because a mostly irrelevant group dares come to town to speak or protest!

An interesting clip where Brian and Hannah sound like reasonable human beings. Although he’s been rubbishee in media for long time what’s he really done bad aside from being pro religion and owning a Harley? I do think in their quest for rapid expansion by coalition with others will dilute and dissolve their own party.


https://youtu.be/_h5Gu3-ZknQ

[R650R]

The Authorities need to identify and apprehend the person/s who tried to throw eggs at Tamaki and give them some training to help improve their aim next time.

They’re actually more interested in people advocating for violence against a person to influence their political beliefs which two people here just have. Which is also one of the definitions of terrorism no matter how funny it might sound to the author.

[pritch]

I find it quite entertaining that several media commentators decided to relabel the protest as a political party event. I guess they were diss appointed it was a peaceful protest compared to the other extreme of a “ mostly peaceful protest” (Tm CNN news).

What’s that saying you can’t make someone look like a dictator but you can’t let them behave like one? So if now it’s a political party launch event instead of protest (and govt Intel would know) then we now have our Banana republic leader literally putting up barriers and screaming fire in the theatre just because a mostly irrelevant group dares come to town to speak or protest!

An interesting clip where Brian and Hannah sound like reasonable human beings. Although he’s been rubbishee in media for long time what’s he really done bad aside from being pro religion and owning a Harley? I do think in their quest for rapid expansion by coalition with others will dilute and dissolve their own party.



You've been reading different things to me. No surprises there. The general consensus I've seen is that this event was a Tamaki publicity stunt. The small turnout should convince a wise person that his political boat won't float. We aren't dealing with wise people though. We're dealing with greedy bastards.

A woman was saying on Twitter that a young friend of hers had commented that Tamati looks like an aging porn star. I'd love that to catch on.

[TheDemonLord]

Although he’s been rubbishee in media for long time what’s he really done bad aside from being pro religion and owning a Harley?

My personal biggest gripe with him is predatory church donations (and possible Profiteering) followed closely by a hard-line version of Christianity - namely he seems to have forgotten the second part of "Hate the sin, Love the Sinner".

However, as the saying goes, even broken clocks are right twice a day.

[Laava]

Tamati looks like an aging porn star. I'd love that to catch on.
That kinda explains all the fluffers hanging around him!

[F5 Dave]

Fuck sake that R666 guy is a complete moron.

Of course they were going to not let that last shit happen again.

You hate the place, please feel free to fuck off somewhere else, but just do it. Or at least from here. Everyone thinks you are a complete egg. Why do you post here?

[husaberg]

Fuck sake that R666 guy is a complete moron.

Of course they were going to not let that last shit happen again.

You hate the place, please feel free to fuck off somewhere else, but just do it. Or at least from here. Everyone thinks you are a complete egg. Why do you post here?

Sorry to burst your bubble its only thursday........

[TheDemonLord]

You hate the place, please feel free to fuck off somewhere else, but just do it. Or at least from here. Everyone thinks you are a complete egg. Why do you post here?

Ladies and Gentlemen, The Tolerance of the Left.

[Kickaha]

Sorry to burst your bubble its only thursday........

You're fucking joking right ? you mean I have another day of this shit

[pete376403]

None of which I particularly disagree with - the only point would be to point to Scale.

Councils and Government are pretty much the same - Massive Rates increases vs Massive Tax increases because of money spent on Shiny instead of Maintenance.

The only difference is that the Government is able to fuck things up on a much larger scale than the Council..

If and when a council get it wrong they can get it spectacularly wrong, eg kaipara district council, building a mega water treatment system to be paid for by illegal loans, and now having to be bailed out by a small ratepayer base. To quite from Hansard "The borrowing for the ill-fated Mangawhai EcoCare Wastewater Treatment Scheme blew out, as the previous member stated, from $11 million to $62 million. The effect of that scheme and its financing has placed a massive financial burden on a small number of ratepayers, particularly those ratepayers in Mangawhai." If a government entity (ie three waters) get it similarly wrong then the burden would be on the government, so all taxpayers carry a much smaller individual cost. But with the audit office and the opposition scrutinising plans and spending, chances are there may not be such an opportunity for fuckups.

[TheDemonLord]

If and when a council get it wrong they can get it spectacularly wrong, eg kaipara district council, building a mega water treatment system to be paid for by illegal loans, and now having to be bailed out by a small ratepayer base. To quite from Hansard "The borrowing for the ill-fated Mangawhai EcoCare Wastewater Treatment Scheme blew out, as the previous member stated, from $11 million to $62 million. The effect of that scheme and its financing has placed a massive financial burden on a small number of ratepayers, particularly those ratepayers in Mangawhai." If a government entity (ie three waters) get it similarly wrong then the burden would be on the government, so all taxpayers carry a much smaller individual cost.

Disasters (financial or otherwise) do not tend to scale linearly with size.

If a Government entity gets it wrong, it can be to the tune of hundreds of millions or even Billions (case in point - The effects of Government policy of the last 2 years)

However, back to your point - what happened to the Kaipara councilors that approved this? Were they voted out of office? I hope so. If not, however, then the people of Kaipara are happy with their money to be pissed away irresponsibly - so they would deserve everything they got.


But with the audit office and the opposition scrutinising plans and spending, chances are there may not be such an opportunity for fuckups.

That word 'May' is doing an Awful lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

I put it to you that with so many cooks in the Kitchen and each cook with their own agenda, the opportunity for Fuckups multiplies (Case in point - every government venture of the last 5 years).

[R650R]

My personal biggest gripe with him is predatory church donations (and possible Profiteering) followed closely by a hard-line version of Christianity - namely he seems to have forgotten the second part of "Hate the sin, Love the Sinner".

However, as the saying goes, even broken clocks are right twice a day.

It would be interesting to see a proper accountants audit of Destiny and Brian vs a similar sized Catholic Church chain. If it wasn’t for modern day social media we would have no idea of what goes on there, it would just be yet another church of which there are many.
It’s quite funny how people get upset about the money side of Destiny yet don’t even blink at the big “ charities” like Red Cross et al who are publicly KNOWN in mainstream press to blow half of their donation revenue on corporate style operating costs/salaries and advertising.
I wonder what it would look like if the other churches were all over twitter or Facebook taking govt policies to task?

[R650R]

A woman was saying on Twitter that a young friend of hers had commented that Tamati looks like an aging porn star. I'd love that to catch on.

Oh dear what on earth was she typing into google 😂😂😂😂😂

[pete376403]

Disasters (financial or otherwise) do not tend to scale linearly with size.

If a Government entity gets it wrong, it can be to the tune of hundreds of millions or even Billions (case in point - The effects of Government policy of the last 2 years)

However, back to your point - what happened to the Kaipara councilors that approved this? Were they voted out of office? I hope so. If not, however, then the people of Kaipara are happy with their money to be pissed away irresponsibly - so they would deserve everything they got..
As usual in cases like this, the person responsible resigns and,due to conditions in their employment agreement, walk away. The resident and people who are left holding the bag are most pissed off, and can do nothing "The saga over the wastewater system blowout at Mangawhai may finally be over with the Employment Court ruling Kaipara District Council can't recover millions from its former chief executive over alleged mismanagement." https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/92818529/kaipara-council-ceo-not-liable-for-mangawhai-wastewater-stink

[TheDemonLord]

It would be interesting to see a proper accountants audit of Destiny and Brian vs a similar sized Catholic Church chain. If it wasn’t for modern day social media we would have no idea of what goes on there, it would just be yet another church of which there are many.

Due to my Parents having a Christian Background - I'm quite familiar with the concept of Church Finances. You have places like City Impact church (for example) which is on the North Shore of Auckland - a very wealthy subset of the community and consequently they have a nice church, nice facilities etc.

Then you've got the various Mormon churches, were (IIRC) they Tithe (10% of their income) - and so consequently, they have nice, immaculate facilities.

You've got the run-of-the-mill churches in middle/working class areas - you know the sort - big, cold hall, Church smell - a couple of 'recent upgrades', always some form of renovation/building work going on (especially if the Church is a bit older)

Then you've got Destiny church, which despite being in a 'poor' area, has some really flash equipment. There's a sort of predatory piety, where unscrupulous preachers will tell with great fire and fervor the Story of the Widow's Mite and were community pressure to 'donate' is high. Which leads to the Church, itself, being enriched - as opposed to the people and the community around them.

IMO Brian and Destiny fall into that group.


It’s quite funny how people get upset about the money side of Destiny yet don’t even blink at the big “ charities” like Red Cross et al who are publicly KNOWN in mainstream press to blow half of their donation revenue on corporate style operating costs/salaries and advertising.

Something that increasingly, I find more and more wrong. I hear the argument that if you want to quality people to work for you, you have to pay them - but in the same breath - there's something deeply wrong here.

Add to that, I have a bunch of friends who have done Charity work (as in, paid employment for Charities) - Suffice to say there are some people who work in Charities who genuinely want to help and there are some who see it as a means to get easy money for no real work by preying on peoples' sympathies.

I'm not saying all Charities or all staff - only that it happens.

That's why these days - if I'm going to give to Charity, I no longer donate Cash. I'll donate Time and Items - as they typically will directly help the people who need the help.


I wonder what it would look like if the other churches were all over twitter or Facebook taking govt policies to task?

Sadly, many of them seem to have either forgotten to read the Bible. I saw this being discussed on a Libertarian/Conservative Podcast - where they were talking about various Modern churches in the US supporting things like Abortion, Transgender re-assignment (The notion of 'born in the wrong body' goes directly against 'Made in the Image of God') and other things - and it was interesting to see that in the comments - people like myself (Atheist) were equally critical of Churches who don't uphold what is in the Bible.

After the Gay Marriage issue in NZ (which IMO was the last great Theological pushback against Government Policy) the Churches have fizzled out, with the exception of Brian and Co.

[TheDemonLord]

As usual in cases like this, the person responsible resigns and,due to conditions in their employment agreement, walk away. The resident and people who are left holding the bag are most pissed off, and can do nothing "The saga over the wastewater system blowout at Mangawhai may finally be over with the Employment Court ruling Kaipara District Council can't recover millions from its former chief executive over alleged mismanagement." https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/92818529/kaipara-council-ceo-not-liable-for-mangawhai-wastewater-stink

Something I'm not too happy with, TBH, as although I respect the Captain going down with their Ship - the state of the UK Civil Service (as an example) shows that the Rot goes far deeper than just the CEO.

And if you take a moment to think about it - if all the Staff are the same - all the frontline workers, Middle Management, Upper Management are all the same - are we really to believe that overnight they will do a complete 180?

The renaming of CYFS to Oranga Tamariki is another such example - the idea that a name change will change some of the fundamental issues with the organization is silly.

As a quick note - I think they do an extremely difficult job, in difficult circumstances, with limited resources and with zero public gratitude.

Everyone complains when they uplift a child from a Meth-Addict Parent because they fear for the childs life.
Everyone complains when they don't uplift a child from a Meth-Addict Parent and the child ends up dead.

So when I say Fundamental Issues - I'm not having a crack at them per se.

[pete376403]

Due to my Parents having a Christian Background - I'm quite familiar with the concept of Church Finances. You have places like City Impact church (for example) which is on the North Shore of Auckland - a very wealthy subset of the community and consequently they have a nice church, nice facilities etc.

Then you've got the various Mormon churches, were (IIRC) they Tithe (10% of their income) - and so consequently, they have nice, immaculate facilities.

You've got the run-of-the-mill churches in middle/working class areas - you know the sort - big, cold hall, Church smell - a couple of 'recent upgrades', always some form of renovation/building work going on (especially if the Church is a bit older)

Then you've got Destiny church, which despite being in a 'poor' area, has some really flash equipment. There's a sort of predatory piety, where unscrupulous preachers will tell with great fire and fervor the Story of the Widow's Mite and were community pressure to 'donate' is high. Which leads to the Church, itself, being enriched - as opposed to the people and the community around them.

IMO Brian and Destiny fall into that group.

Something that increasingly, I find more and more wrong. I hear the argument that if you want to quality people to work for you, you have to pay them - but in the same breath - there's something deeply wrong here.
Add to that, I have a bunch of friends who have done Charity work (as in, paid employment for Charities) - Suffice to say there are some people who work in Charities who genuinely want to help and there are some who see it as a means to get easy money for no real work by preying on peoples' sympathies.
I'm not saying all Charities or all staff - only that it happens.
That's why these days - if I'm going to give to Charity, I no longer donate Cash. I'll donate Time and Items - as they typically will directly help the people who need the help.
Sadly, many of them seem to have either forgotten to read the Bible. I saw this being discussed on a Libertarian/Conservative Podcast - where they were talking about various Modern churches in the US supporting things like Abortion, Transgender re-assignment (The notion of 'born in the wrong body' goes directly against 'Made in the Image of God') and other things - and it was interesting to see that in the comments - people like myself (Atheist) were equally critical of Churches who don't uphold what is in the Bible.
After the Gay Marriage issue in NZ (which IMO was the last great Theological pushback against Government Policy) the Churches have fizzled out, with the exception of Brian and Co.

The only religious organisation that I think has any credence, and to which I will give anything to, is the Salvation Army. The rest are just a pack of money hungry, empire building leeches, which should be audited and taxed, just as any other profit driven enterprise should be.

[James Deuce]

The only religious organisation that I think has any credence, and to which I will give anything to, is the Salvation Army. The rest are just a pack of money hungry, empire building leeches, which should be audited and taxed, just as any other profit driven enterprise should be.

Homophobic, quietly racist paramilitary cult with decent investments and tax breaks on their commercial and residential properties. I think not.

[F5 Dave]

And they dont even like drinking. But yes agree with Jim.

[TheDemonLord]

The only religious organisation that I think has any credence, and to which I will give anything to, is the Salvation Army. The rest are just a pack of money hungry, empire building leeches, which should be audited and taxed, just as any other profit driven enterprise should be.

The Sallies have their issues, just like all churches.

As I said - I've seen a very wide spectrum of both Churches and Church Goers. There are some who genuinely do good works for the community, there are some which definitely fall under your description.

Personally - I'd say that most churches aren't profit driven - they are usually run on shoe-string budgets and rely not on Money donations but Time, Materials etc.


Homophobic, quietly racist paramilitary cult with decent investments and tax breaks on their commercial and residential properties. I think not.

Homophobic? I mean - they are Christians, they believe it's a Sin - I don't agree with them - but it's a bit of a stretch.

Quietly Racist? Not that I've personally witnessed - seen plenty of Maori Sallies.

However, Paramilitary? Please. When was the last time you saw the Sallies in Tactical gear practicing CQB? Yes, they have the Dress, Structure and even practice things like Drill - but what they don't practice is the actual combat skills.

And as above - they do some good work.

[James Deuce]

The Sallies have their issues, just like all churches.

As I said - I've seen a very wide spectrum of both Churches and Church Goers. There are some who genuinely do good works for the community, there are some which definitely fall under your description.

Personally - I'd say that most churches aren't profit driven - they are usually run on shoe-string budgets and rely not on Money donations but Time, Materials etc.



Homophobic? I mean - they are Christians, they believe it's a Sin - I don't agree with them - but it's a bit of a stretch.

Quietly Racist? Not that I've personally witnessed - seen plenty of Maori Sallies.

However, Paramilitary? Please. When was the last time you saw the Sallies in Tactical gear practicing CQB? Yes, they have the Dress, Structure and even practice things like Drill - but what they don't practice is the actual combat skills.

And as above - they do some good work.

Absolutely homophobic. Have been busted for refusing entry to treatment facilities for Wellington's transsexual and gay sex workers wanting treatment for drug and alcohol addiction. I used to go to Congress Hall in Auckland and the Glenfield one occasionally. Absolutely paramilitary. They use a rank system and it is enforced. Racist. For sure. Maybe they've moved away from it now, but there were no people of colour in a 1500 strong church parish. None. They, like most religious organisations, provide conditional support. I dare you to go an ask for help from them when you're in the shit. You'll be wearing a uniform and playing a cornet before you know it.

[TheDemonLord]

Absolutely homophobic. Have been busted for refusing entry to treatment facilities for Wellington's transsexual and gay sex workers wanting treatment for drug and alcohol addiction.

Again - they believe in the Bible - the Bible says all 3 of those things are wrong. Do they have religious freedom to believe that?

And are they refusing entry into public owned facilities by blockading them or are they refusing entry into their own facilities?


Absolutely paramilitary. They use a rank system and it is enforced.

To which I agreed - they have Rank, Uniform, Drill and a Marching Band.

However what they don't have is Weapons, Weapons training, Hand-to-hand Combat classes, CQB courses, Rifle Ranges etc. etc. That's kinda required to meet the definition of Paramilitary.

At best you could say they were LARPing at being a military organization, but even LARPers bring their own fake weapons....


Racist. For sure. Maybe they've moved away from it now, but there were no people of colour in a 1500 strong church parish. None.

Okay - firstly - this is classic CRT in action Folks. Right down to the Coloured Peoples - oops, I mean 'People of Colour' terminology. Sorry - I often get these racist terms mixed up.

Secondly though - and this is the big one: Did you ever witness any Racist remarks or actual acts of Racism by the Sallies or are you merely trying to imply Racism based on an ideal of what the make-up of a given institution ought to look like based on marxist presuppositions?


They, like most religious organisations, provide conditional support. I dare you to go an ask for help from them when you're in the shit. You'll be wearing a uniform and playing a cornet before you know it.

So first up - they are the ones providing the support. They are absolutely entitled to have conditions attached.

But further to that, you have to ask why they put the conditions on, they sincerely believe that in order to fully help the person, you have to treat not only the symptom but the underlying root-cause (and it just so happens to an Evangelical Christian that the root cause of most problems is insufficient Faith in God....)

I might disagree with their assessments in some cases, but in other cases - perhaps it's easier to put it this way:

A Homeless person hanging outside an Alcohol shop, smelling of intoxication asks you for $5 for a Sandwich. Do you give them $5?

They might genuinely buy a Sandwich - in which case you've helped them. They might also buy more alcohol, in which case you have prolonged their suffering.

The Sallies, rightly or wrongly, believe that if you don't address the underlying issues - all you are doing is perpetuating the issue, you aren't helping that person - you are ensuring that they are trapped ever deeper in the spiral of despair.

Furthermore, by giving your time/money/resources to that person and not someone who is trying to change - you are making the world a worse place.

It's harsh - but as above - it's their Charity and they are free to dispense it how they see fit.

[pritch]

I wonder what it would look like if the other churches were all over twitter or Facebook taking govt policies to task?

That might be sufficient to cause a law change. The churches are tax free because of their 'good works'. The US mega churches are more noted for buying executive jets for their pastors than for their charitable work.

There is frequent comment in the US that if churches become involved in politics they should be taxed. Only their good works should be deductible.

That could work here too.

[pzkpfw]

The S.A. can believe what they like, but under the guise of "family values" or whatever, they have actively campaigned against two major reforms giving existing rights to a marginalised community.

Screw 'em. (The sallies)

[F5 Dave]

If you don't follow the Christian Dog you are going to Hell.

Most of the world doesn't, but don't worry, they are largely coloured skin peoples in far countries, not like us good white Christian Soldiers from British stock. .

That attitude is quietly racist and what you will find at church.

[pete376403]

Homophobic, quietly racist paramilitary cult with decent investments and tax breaks on their commercial and residential properties. I think not.

all that but they do a bit of good work with deros and drunks. Every chance I may end up needing something beside thoughts and prayers from them one day

[Kickaha]

Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins, and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Oh good God, let me give you my life

[Laava]

You OK man?…

[F5 Dave]

If I'm a pagan of the good times
My lover's the sunlight
To keep the goddess on my side
She demands a sacrifice
Drain the whole sea
Get something shiny
Something meaty for the main course
That's a fine looking high horse
What you got in the stable.

[Berries]

You put your left leg in
Left leg out
Do the hokey kokey and you turn around
That's what it's all about.

[Laava]

I wanna take you to a ghey bar, ghey bar!

[R650R]

People without god seem so angry, just look at this successful happy NASCAR family 😂😂😂


https://youtu.be/eY5VNDvea1M

[R650R]

Hoo ho ho it seems Miss Penelope a key Fire and fury “journalist” was much more open minded back when she wasn’t part of the state funded media cartel....
To her credit though the gaurdisil saga was worldwide news at time and prob to blame for much modern vax hesitation....




https://youtu.be/k2SUvLRUQ5s

[husaberg]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/charactercommunity/images/c/ca/Nslzeyggmjp31.jpg

[R650R]

Interesting piece in fluff news about inquiry into police handling of protest.

While we can all see they were forced to fight with their hands tied there’s some startling revelations about timeline, fore knowledge and previous actions.

It all points toward somewhere a deliberate standown to let it fester into a bigger drama. The cops themselves not being allowed body amour against their standing health and safety protocols for such situation.
The real worry (for politicians) is the tech just wasn’t enough police available early on. You’d think they would have some kind of plan in background to cope with situations like this.
Are we still stuck in colonial style decision making where a committee needs to meet and have funding approved to do anything?

[BMWST?]

the idea that they were completely unaware of numbers coming to wellington seems a little far fetched. Surely a policeman or three standing on the side of the road at the a towns would have revealed some of the numbers let alone soe monitoring of the forums.They were aware it was coming so they must of had some intel?
It was plain to see what the outcome was going to be very early on.

[R650R]

the idea that they were completely unaware of numbers coming to wellington seems a little far fetched. Surely a policeman or three standing on the side of the road at the a towns would have revealed some of the numbers let alone soe monitoring of the forums.They were aware it was coming so they must of had some intel?
It was plain to see what the outcome was going to be very early on.

Given how many threats to Jacinda that the GCSB was allegedly monitoring its hard not to believe that at least say a good 1/4 of the traffic would have flagged rego numbers getting pinged by the ANPR cameras coming into Wellington.

[R650R]

Looks like the sorry beehive report has prompted the leadership to be more proactive. Police now have a hit squad to deal with eco-terrorists trying to paralyse Wellington.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/131886651/police-take-new-approach-to-restore-passenger-rail-protests

[sugilite]

Looks like the sorry beehive report has prompted the leadership to be more proactive. Police now have a hit squad to deal with eco-terrorists trying to paralyse Wellington.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/131886651/police-take-new-approach-to-restore-passenger-rail-protests

Just leave them glued there and pop some cones around them - sorted.

[Laava]

Do what they did in the UK and chisel up the bit of road their hands are glued on and then process them and send them home with a kilo or two of bitumen still on their hands to sort out themselves!

[FJRider]

Just leave them glued there and pop some cones around them - sorted.

Give them a few beers first ... :shifty: