Beehive occupation.

[Stylo]

Not sure if these guys have a common mandate. Surprised the police have been so laid back now we're into day 4. Been watching the news.....

[husaberg]

Not sure if these guys have a common mandate. Surprised the police have been so laid back now we're into day 4. Been watching the news.....

Are you expecting a sting at the end of the tale?

[Stylo]

Are you expecting a sting at the end of the tale?

Why would I be expecting anything ? Interested in the proceedings in Wellington with an open mind.

What does a sting at the end of a tale mean btw ? Do you mean a tail ?

They'll be glad it's going to rain tonight....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/461291/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-anti-mandate-protest-s-fourth-day-at-parliament

[FJRider]

Not sure if these guys have a common mandate. Surprised the police have been so laid back now we're into day 4. Been watching the news.....

If everybody ignored them and just got on with their own lives ... would those protesting consider that a WIN for themselves ... ??

[Stylo]

If everybody ignored them and just got on with their own lives ... would those protesting consider that a WIN for themselves ... ??

Difficult to ignore my mate from Alexandra. Their vehicles are still blocking the streets and drisrupting the local business's big time If the Police haven't moved them then on soon I would appreciate the NZ Army to do the the job.

it's becoming a very toxic "Peaceful " Protest. Get rid of them. Watching the Trump flags on the news sealed it for me.

[nerrrd]

If there’s no willingness to compromise on the protestors’ side, it can only end in tears.

Which will no doubt get them plenty of ‘clicks’ or ‘likes’ or whatever it is they’re after.

That none of the MPs are prepared to engage so far, no matter their political persuasion, is telling I think.

[husaberg]

Why would I be expecting anything ? Interested in the proceedings in Wellington with an open mind.

What does a sting at the end of a tale mean btw ? Do you mean a tail ?

They'll be glad it's going to rain tonight....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/461291/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-anti-mandate-protest-s-fourth-day-at-parliament

Hi the buzz around the NZ govt building is they are sick of the constant drone so come tomorrow they will be smoking them out going over the area with a fine tooth comb.


If there’s no willingness to compromise on the protestors’ side, it can only end in tears.

Which will no doubt get them plenty of ‘clicks’ or ‘likes’ or whatever it is they’re after.

That none of the MPs are prepared to engage so far, no matter their political persuasion, is telling I think.

I am amazed Rimmer hasn't been out their stiring the hornets nest

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/media/22947805/cartoon-david-seymour.jpeg?mode=crop&rnd=132651515655630000&height=379&width=675&quality=80&scale=both

[Stylo]

If there’s no willingness to compromise on the protestors’ side, it can only end in tears.

Which will no doubt get them plenty of ‘clicks’ or ‘likes’ or whatever it is they’re after.

That none of the MPs are prepared to engage so far, no matter their political persuasion, is telling I think.

Difficulty is ... There isn't an official Spokesman for these guys. Can't do it. There's a number of issues going on evidently.

Look at the crowd. No one is in charge. They are all as stupid as each other. Give them 6 hours warning .

Then bring the army in to move these guys out.

[pete376403]

Difficulty is ... There isn't an official Spokesman for these guys. Can't do it. There's a number of issues going on evidently.

Look at the crowd. No one is in charge. They are all as stupid as each other. Give them 6 hours warning .

Then bring the army in to move these guys out.

Which is probably what they want - to be seen as martyrs being rolled by the "government jackbooted storm troopers". Wait and see what the forecast rain will do for their determination.

[FJRider]

Then bring the army in to move these guys out.

A good hose down by the local fire brigade ... About midnight.

[jellywrestler]

Difficult to ignore my mate from Alexandra. Their vehicles are still blocking the streets and drisrupting the local business's big time

i went to the national library today to do some research, got a ten minute park one block from there, had a choice of two actually. Apart from the pub there there aren't any businesses in the immediate vicinity, however there are a few up the road that might be down. No different to 100's that are in tourist areas i suspect. First person i talked to was waiting for the next bullrush, seemed to a pleasant atmosphere as i wondered onto the grounds, the rain will sort em out.

[HenryDorsetCase]

As soon as they started threatening to "execute the politicians and media" then the gloves should have come off. Tow the cars, crush them. Sell the trucks. take the children away and give them to someone sensible, pepper spray and riot gear. beanbags, water cannons and a can-do attitude. Fuck these clowns. You've made your point, you've exercised your rights, now fuck off.

[F5 Dave]

I think it all started when someone said "you know, mung beans are really cheap, perhaps we should eat them?" "Hey, if I take this old T-shirt, and some dye. . . . We could make our own clothes and all be induhviduals"

[Berries]

As soon as they started threatening to "execute the politicians and media" then the gloves should have come off. Tow the cars, crush them. Sell the trucks. take the children away and give them to someone sensible, pepper spray and riot gear. beanbags, water cannons and a can-do attitude. Fuck these clowns. You've made your point, you've exercised your rights, now fuck off.

Woop woop. Henry for PM.



What does a sting at the end of a tale mean btw ? Do you mean a tail ?
Whoooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[jato]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/hutt-news/2595536/Parliament-to-say-sorry-to-protestors?fbclid=IwAR322_OWfetpy4OPFVJVmPqBnQRIGp Kd8Ojv6hUyA8frC00V_51Xtm7_8o8

[R650R]

It’s not actually an occupation... it’s just a “minor peaceful protest” and the protestors are just waiting on grass for Stalinda to have the decency to front up listen for couple minutes and say a few words.
Actually much more peaceful than the BLM protests which were promoted as positive by the same media that is now crying foul... (and also have them the idea and instruction with extensively coverage promoting the BLM and occupying movements in positive light)

The only thing being occupied is parking spaces and they are being billed for that.

Yet another mistake the media did a Trudeau and said it’s just a small group so now more people are organically joining in, kiwis love the underdog....

The biggest problem here is working out which side has exercised the biggest leadership disaster in recent NZ history outside of a National Party conference lol

[husaberg]

It’s not actually an occupation... it’s just a “minor peaceful protest” and the protestors are just waiting on grass for Stalinda to have the decency to front up listen for couple minutes and say a few words.


Front up? there were more people at my child's school performance should she have fronted up to that as well.......
10's of thousands showed up to the TPP protests, so when did key front up to them........
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35489838
Key never fronted to Waitangi protesters either.
nor Unversity student protests

[F5 Dave]

So measurably they are the tiny minority. Heck 94% of real New Zealanders are double jabbed and these stupid fukers are trying to make a super spreader event in my backyard, where the rest of us have been trying to be sensible. Thanks fuckheads.

Democracy is the mandate of the masses, not some cunts who think they can strongarm their beliefs on everyone else.

Freeeeduuumb :tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger:

[jellywrestler]

So measurably they are the tiny minority. Heck 94% of real New Zealanders are double jabbed and these stupid fukers are trying to make a super spreader event in my backyard, where the rest of us have been trying to be sensible. Thanks fuckheads.



we almost need a superspreader event to get this thing through our population, getting it at the rate of 2-300 new people a day is going to take decades to go through everyone, ll they are doing now is going to push it into winter

[TheDemonLord]

I love how everyone is saying how it's a tiny minority. When the Convoy passed through where I am, I saw the largest gathering of roadside supporters that I've seen for any protest.

And I'm including the Farmers protest.

But what I find even more interesting is what the 'silent majority' think:


The number of COVID Tracer QR Code scans has dropped dramatically since last week, from 2.5 million to 1.6 million on Monday and only 1.5 million on Tuesday.

That's *quite* a reduction, nearly half.

The main point of the protest (that is, the one that has the broadest appeal) is that of Freedom to choose without penalty of compulsion. Now, granted there are factions within that who have their own point or axe to grind, but to say that there isn't a common theme is to be willfully ignorant.

Back to the numbers above - they do point a very clear picture that the average person is starting to get over it. We are at 95% vaccinated - why do we still have restrictions?

That said, I look forward to the next Left Wing protest, I'll make a note to come to this thread, copy and paste some suggested responses and when the inevitable flak comes my way as 'How could you suggest they do that to the Protestors', I'll have great fun pointing out that the words aren't mine.

What's good for the Goose, is good for the Gander.


*Honk Honk*

[R650R]

So measurably they are the tiny minority. Heck 94% of real New Zealanders are double jabbed and these stupid fukers are trying to make a super spreader event in my backyard, where the rest of us have been trying to be sensible. Thanks fuckheads.

Democracy is the mandate of the masses, not some cunts who think they can strongarm their beliefs on everyone else.

Freeeeduuumb :tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger:

You’ll find a lot of “double jabbed” weren’t by full consent. 40% of nation had to get it or lose their jobs. It took a relentless tv/radio/internet/social media propoganda campaign to get the nation past the 80% level.
That it took that level of effort surely tells you something....
So the country is 94% vaxxed and now we are getting smashed with nearly 500 cases a day of the new version.... gee all that scanning/mask wearing/redlight lockdown/double vax is sure STOPPING the virus.
I’m a “real New Zealander” because I have a mortgage to pay and with the current vitriol about non vaxxed alternatives employment options didn’t bear much thinking about. I know many others who feel same and it’s foolish to dismiss this protest no matter how badly organised it is....

What’s going to be real cool is next time the Maoris/climate crazies/feminists/trans etc stage a protest. Arderns weak leadership has opened the gates to unbridled hell in future next time a specific Interest group wants attention. We should have seen this coming with how she played Ihumātao....

[R650R]

I love how everyone is saying how it's a tiny minority. When the Convoy passed through where I am, I saw the largest gathering of roadside supporters that I've seen for any protest.

And I'm including the Farmers protest.

But what I find even more interesting is what the 'silent majority' think:



That's *quite* a reduction, nearly half.

The main point of the protest (that is, the one that has the broadest appeal) is that of Freedom to choose without penalty of compulsion. Now, granted there are factions within that who have their own point or axe to grind, but to say that there isn't a common theme is to be willfully ignorant.

Back to the numbers above - they do point a very clear picture that the average person is starting to get over it. We are at 95% vaccinated - why do we still have restrictions?

That said, I look forward to the next Left Wing protest, I'll make a note to come to this thread, copy and paste some suggested responses and when the inevitable flak comes my way as 'How could you suggest they do that to the Protestors', I'll have great fun pointing out that the words aren't mine.

What's good for the Goose, is good for the Gander.


*Honk Honk*

My HNZ neighbours across street have family sleeping in car out in street. They came back from earlier protest their car all chalked up in freedom.... I see them loading the car up again tonight....
There’s a lot of people in this country with nothing left to lose, what key called the underclass....
Jacindas housing holocaust and empty promises must make them feel even worse....


https://youtu.be/NG1VxXfMyBw

[Stylo]

My HNZ neighbours across street have family sleeping in car out in street. They came back from earlier protest their car all chalked up in freedom.... I see them loading the car up again tonight....
There’s a lot of people in this country with nothing left to lose, what key called the underclass....
Jacindas housing holocaust and empty promises must make them feel even worse....


https://youtu.be/NG1VxXfMyBw

Post a video of the leader of this protest movement please R650R. His or her making a statement for the following. The Agenda, reason for the protests and, who they've been talking too thus far. And the progress they've made. Or not.

All I see is a loose bunch of fucking idiots who haven't got any idea pissing the vast majority of New Zealanders off.

[jellywrestler]

You’ll find a lot of “double jabbed” weren’t by full consent. 40% of nation had to get it or lose their jobs. ...

how do you figure that when less than 50% of kiwis actually work?

[R650R]

how do you figure that when less than 50% of kiwis actually work?

My humble apologies.... quoting our incredibly accurate media, should read as 40% of the employed workforce....

[R650R]

Post a video of the leader of this protest movement please R650R. His or her making a statement for the following. The Agenda, reason for the protests and, who they've been talking too thus far. And the progress they've made. Or not.

All I see is a loose bunch of fucking idiots who haven't got any idea pissing the vast majority of New Zealanders off.

You seem
Confused.... I already posted earlier that both the leadership of adverb and the protest is a disaster.... and that I neither support or judge it’s intentions...
My main gripe is the govt and media are contributing to this situation festering into something worse when it could have been resolved with discussion and acknowledgement.

The vast majority of NZ doesn’t care actually, those that do are prob mostly those that live and work in central Wellington, ironically the majority of which are prob pro left wing voters who will be confused about who to support here.....

[FJRider]

You’ll find a lot of “double jabbed” weren’t by full consent. 40% of nation had to get it or lose their jobs. It took a relentless tv/radio/internet/social media propoganda campaign to get the nation past the 80% level.
That it took that level of effort surely tells you something....

If you have gone thru life without (feeling forced to be) doing anything you didn't like ... but knew it was the right thing to to at the time ... you are lucky to have lived such a sheltered life.

Perhaps ... A wife/partner that may (or may not) agree with their sentiments ... perhaps ... a family to feed ... that don't know (or aren't old enough to understand) the issue ... perhaps ... maybe a mortgage to pay ... perhaps ... countless reasons ... I doubt even you could even begin to understand.

That it took such a SHORT amount of time to achieve ... surely tells YOU something.


So the country is 94% vaxxed and now we are getting smashed with nearly 500 cases a day of the new version.... gee all that scanning/mask wearing/redlight lockdown/double vax is sure STOPPING the virus.

Be sure to watch the death toll rising ... I think 53 at the moment. Would the number of deaths be the same (in THIS Country) if NOBODY was vaccinated ... ??


I’m a “real New Zealander” because I have a mortgage to pay and with the current vitriol about non vaxxed alternatives employment options didn’t bear much thinking about.

Answer above above in my opening lines ...


I know many others who feel same and it’s foolish to dismiss this protest no matter how badly organised it is....

What percentage of that protest group (Do YOU think) is getting their funding (that allows them to be there)directly from a Government department ... in the way of a benefit .. ??


What’s going to be real cool is next time the Maoris/climate crazies/feminists/trans etc stage a protest. Arderns weak leadership has opened the gates to unbridled hell in future next time a specific Interest group wants attention. We should have seen this coming with how she played Ihumātao....

It seems ... (Aside from the TV news time they're getting )the reception from the sitting MP's to the current protest seems quite COOL.

Valid protests ... properly organized ... usually get a better reception from sitting MP's. If only as a gesture that "Their" party is listening.

I look forward to seeing those future protest groups you've mentioned ... do their thing and protesting. As is their right to do so.

[mashman]

You seem
Confused.... I already posted earlier that both the leadership of adverb and the protest is a disaster....

What would you have done better/expected to see? Such feedback might find its way to the eyes of those you wish to critique. Unless yer jus' riffin' like the other tards?

[nerrrd]

My concern is that whenever I hear any of them asked “how long are you going to be here” the answer is always “as long as it takes.”

If they’re referring to the lifting of public health measures/mandates across the board, then that’s surely not going to happen until we’re well past Omicron. Which is months away at least. Assuming another variant doesn’t spring up in the meantime.

I don’t think either side has the patience to keep the peace for that long.

[pzkpfw]

The funniest thing I've seen so far from this mob was the sign in the window of a vehicle (more than one, it's being distributed) trying to stop parking tickets being applied.

It claimed an ability to levy a $40,000 fine for anyone putting anything unauthorised on the vehicle.

It mentioned "Admiralty Law".

That's the kind of bollox from the "free Men of the land" movement; people who want to live in society but basically think they can make up their own laws within it.



Such a mish mash of people, united by a weird mix of distrust and gullibility - with the Dunning-Kruger effect making them think they are the ones who are right.



( https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land )

[R650R]

If you have gone thru life without (feeling forced to be) doing anything you didn't like ... but knew it was the right thing to to at the time ... you are lucky to have lived such a sheltered life.

Perhaps ... A wife/partner that may (or may not) agree with their sentiments ... perhaps ... a family to feed ... that don't know (or aren't old enough to understand) the issue ... perhaps ... maybe a mortgage to pay ... perhaps ... countless reasons ... I doubt even you could even begin to understand.

That it took such a SHORT amount of time to achieve ... surely tells YOU something.



Be sure to watch the death toll rising ... I think 53 at the moment. Would the number of deaths be the same (in THIS Country) if NOBODY was vaccinated ... ??



Answer above above in my opening lines ...



What percentage of that protest group (Do YOU think) is getting their funding (that allows them to be there)directly from a Government department ... in the way of a benefit .. ??



It seems ... (Aside from the TV news time they're getting )the reception from the sitting MP's to the current protest seems quite COOL.

Valid protests ... properly organized ... usually get a better reception from sitting MP's. If only as a gesture that "Their" party is listening.

I look forward to seeing those future protest groups you've mentioned ... do their thing and protesting. As is their right to do so.


IÂ’ve not lived a sheltered life thank you, thatÂ’s why IÂ’m willing to speak up about societyÂ’s rights that our ancestors died for being taken away.
It DidnÂ’t take a short time to achieve it took months ov tv campaigns and doses being thrown away because people didnÂ’t turn up fast enough.
We will never know what the death toll might have been but Delta failed to live up to the hype on death/case number ratio and we were largely unvaxced as country when that arrived.
By all accounts oxycron is less severe but spreads faster.
Absent proper controlled scientific data we canÂ’t say with any certainty what things might have been.
The wgtn protest will be a good experiment t though people from alroynd country largely unvaxced living in close quarters itÂ’s a wonder they arenÂ’t dropping like flies already????
What does it matter if there paycheque come so from Jacinda or GeorgeÂ’s soros ??? Everyone in this country has a right to protest and a good leader should hear them out not let it fester into worse situation.
Remember in the good ol days of NZ when people would shout get a job at any protest group be they maori/unemployed/hippies/greenies/etc all were labelled rentamob by the media of the day.
The irony is one of the most feral sue bradford is now an MP and her daughter is in the media frontlines but they would be in that Wellington mob if we wound their odometers back....

Who decides what a valid protest is????
Do not reply at do not reply dot com as scrolling multipist on phone is difficult to do accurately. I have heard your initial protest, acknowledged it with reply something g you might not get from Jacinda 😜😉

[pete376403]

The funniest thing I've seen so far from this mob was the sign in the window of a vehicle (more than one, it's being distributed) trying to stop parking tickets being applied.

It claimed an ability to levy a $40,000 fine for anyone putting anything unauthorised on the vehicle.

It mentioned "Admiralty Law".

That's the kind of bollox from the "free Men of the land" movement; people who want to live in society but basically think they can make up their own laws within it.
Such a mish mash of people, united by a weird mix of distrust and gullibility - with the Dunning-Kruger effect making them think they are the ones who are right.

If it keeps on raining and the water level gets high enough then Admiralty law might come into effect, otherwise hard to see how anyone could believe that "a body of law that governs nautical issues and private maritime disputes" covers illegal parking on land.

[F5 Dave]

I think you'll find all their logic is all out to sea.

This wind will knock them about a bit.

[R650R]

My concern is that whenever I hear any of them asked “how long are you going to be here” the answer is always “as long as it takes.”

If they’re referring to the lifting of public health measures/mandates across the board, then that’s surely not going to happen until we’re well past Omicron. Which is months away at least. Assuming another variant doesn’t spring up in the meantime.

I don’t think either side has the patience to keep the peace for that long.

Well let’s not forget Aucklands extensive level four delta lockdown.... as summer got closer and cabin fever took over it was clear mass non compliance was creeping in.... Jacinda Was terrified we’d end up with what we have now or what was going on in Australia....
So we got the rebranded traffic light non lockdown that is a lockdown despite DEADLY and HIGHLY transmissible delta in community....

Remember what we were told early on about even one case being out in community how fast it could spread etc etc......

[R650R]

If it keeps on raining and the water level gets high enough then Admiralty law might come into effect, otherwise hard to see how anyone could believe that "a body of law that governs nautical issues and private maritime disputes" covers illegal parking on land.

Maybe some have missed out on the digital age arriving . The fine on window is mere window dressing and deterrent to others much like a lion leaving the bones of its kill in its territory.
The real fine comes in the post.....
Many years ago a cop placed a fine notice on front of my truck while I was sleeping. It promptly got sucked into air intake next morning and the mechanic found it several months later during service lol

[jellywrestler]

My humble apologies.... quoting our incredibly accurate media, should read as 40% of the employed workforce....

4 out of ten, that ain't right at all

[FJRider]

.................................................. ...................

In a society where you have rights ... You also have obligations to that society. No society is ALL about the individual. The individuals rights in a society ... go hand in hand with the individuals obligations in a society ... TO that society they are part of.

So you do realize the death toll COULD have been higher.

Two years is a short time in history. Wars have been fought in less time.

If you are in to fortune telling ... how severe will the next variant be .. ?? Guess well ... your life (and those in your family) depends on your correct guess. Good luck with that guess.

Perhaps they came to the protest to just be fed if they have no job or money. And be on TV. Probably nowhere else to go that will have them except their home. If they have one.

Still no certainty what will happen NEXT either. How many lives has the "Forced Mandate" saved .. ??

Experiments can go badly wrong. Even those at the protest may later regret their decision to be there. And I doubt ALL there are UN-vaxed.

And I think they WILL hear "Get a job".

At the moment that mob is the center of attention. Those there famous in their own minds. Their days in infamy. And they'll stretch it out for as long as they can. They are in the limelight ... and may never be there again.

[pritch]

Interesting watching what is going on. Some random impressions if I may?

When the protest started the idiots didn't even know what it was about. They still don't, it's a gethering of the disaffected and the mentally ill, organised by the Destiny Church.

Nobody owes them a hearing.

The group is tiny, anyone who thinks this is statistically significant is delusional. Attributing anything to do with this to "the silent majority" is idiocy. The silent majority are the 95% of the eligible population who are vaccinated.

The Army has no real role in this, although there has been talk of getting the Army to remove the vehicles. Tow truck operators like to present a tough image. If they can't do this job they will have a new image.

There is a Facebook page complaining about the "unprofessional" use of loud music by the Speaker and suggesting people ring and make a noise complaint. Good luck with that.
Music is better than fire hoses and batons, but thay haven't thought of that.

There was a group in Picton pissing off the locals. These were apparently the protestors who turned up at the ferry without vaccine passes - or negative tests. Fuckwits.

If Mallard were to threaten to charge the Destiny Church with the cost of reinstating the Parliament grounds to their normal state, the demo would be gone within an hour.

[MD]

Interesting watching what is going on. Some random impressions if I may?

When the protest started the idiots didn't even know what it was about. They still don't, it's a gethering of the disaffected and the mentally ill, organised by the Destiny Church.

Nobody owes them a hearing.

The group is tiny, anyone who thinks this is statistically significant is delusional. Attributing anything to do with this to "the silent majority" is idiocy. The silent majority are the 95% of the eligible population who are vaccinated.

The Army has no real role in this, although there has been talk of getting the Army to remove the vehicles. Tow truck operators like to present a tough image. If they can't do this job they will have a new image.

There is a Facebook page complaining about the "unprofessional" use of loud music by the Speaker and suggesting people ring and make a noise complaint. Good luck with that.
Music is better than fire hoses and batons, but thay haven't rthought of that.

There was a group in Picton pissing off the locals. These were apparently the protestors who turned up at the ferry without vaccijna passes - or negative tests. Fuckwits.

Perhaps if Mallard were to threaten to charge the Destiny Church with the cost of reinstating the Parliament grounds to their normal state, the demo would be gone within an hour.
Well said. Pritch for PM.

I just get annoyed at their hypocrisy. Claiming they are doing this for their and ours freedom. Where was our freedom of movement during the convoy. My wife and many friends had a crap day on Monday trying to get to work. These idiots trashed their rights to freely move about on our roads, go to our employment and now move about in our CBD. I liked the school girl's comment on the News after she was abused and threatened by a protester for wearing a mask when simply walking down the street- "what about my freedom to choose to wear a mask if I want to? [not to mention her freedom not to abused & threatened by dickheads] Imagine how angry you would be if that was your daughter.

It goes back to the traffic light analogy. We drive through controlled intersections on green lights and not red lights, not because it is law and mandated, but we have the brains to know that to not do so would end in pain, suffering and probably many deaths every hour on our roads.

Perhaps someone can run a large MRI scanner over the mob to search for any sign of functioning brain cells.

[husaberg]

Well let’s not forget Aucklands extensive level four delta lockdown.... as summer got closer and cabin fever took over it was clear mass non compliance was creeping in.... Jacinda Was terrified we’d end up with what we have now or what was going on in Australia....
So we got the rebranded traffic light non lockdown that is a lockdown despite DEADLY and HIGHLY transmissible delta in community....

Remember what we were told early on about even one case being out in community how fast it could spread etc etc......

You mean that same delta variant you claimed had failed to deliver.....
That same virus you previously claimed only "allegedly" killed people...
That same virus you claimed masks and lock dones were not required for
let's not forget you have a history of being wrong.

[TheDemonLord]

The silent majority are the 95% of the eligible population who are vaccinated.

You do realise that you can be both Vaccinated and opposed to Mandates, right?

Like, I chose to get Vaccinated without any need for Government compulsion, yet I still support the protest because I believe that Government compulsion on an issue of personal choice and bodily autonomy is wrong.

Your fundamental Premise that 95% of people are vaccinated therefore 95% of people don't support the protest is wrong.

[Kickaha]

It mentioned "Admiralty Law".

That's the kind of bollox from the "free Men of the land" movement; people who want to live in society but basically think they can make up their own laws within it.


Apparently the fact that police weren't wearing their hats at one stage also meant they were operating under "Admiralty Law"

[pete376403]

Maybe some have missed out on the digital age arriving . The fine on window is mere window dressing and deterrent to others much like a lion leaving the bones of its kill in its territory.
The real fine comes in the post.....
Many years ago a cop placed a fine notice on front of my truck while I was sleeping. It promptly got sucked into air intake next morning and the mechanic found it several months later during service lol

So did you receive the fine in the post? Maybe it went to the registered owner of the truck. If the owner was you then maybe you just got lucky - it happens sometimes. Council will be less inclined to let the parking fines go, they will end up in Court and after that they will not go away, merely have costs added

[pritch]

You do realise that you can be both Vaccinated and opposed to Mandates, right?

Like, I chose to get Vaccinated without any need for Government compulsion, yet I still support the protest because I believe that Government compulsion on an issue of personal choice and bodily autonomy is wrong.

Your fundamental Premise that 95% of people are vaccinated therefore 95% of people don't support the protest is wrong.

I'm not wrong, and we don't have a mandate as such. They are not forciiby jabbing anybody.

[pritch]

So did you receive the fine in the post? Maybe it went to the registered owner of the truck. If the owner was you then maybe you just got lucky - it happens sometimes. Council will be less inclined to let the parking fines go, they will end up in Court and after that they will not go away, merely have costs added

Fines only work for normal people. The idiot fringe don't pay them and the courts don't do anything about it. There are plenty owe thousands and pay nothing.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm not wrong, and we don't have a mandate as such. They are not forciiby jabbing anybody.

But they are restricting freedoms for not proving vaccinated status and they are issuing fines for non-compliance.

That's a fiat of Force and therefore is a form of Mandate.

[R650R]

I'm not wrong, and we don't have a mandate as such. They are not forciiby jabbing anybody.

You must be quite well off. A lot of NZ people/families despite working hard and multiple jobs are on the breadline paying the mortgage each week.
Even if skilled enough to acquire another job in a different vocation quickly even being out of work several weeks would mean missing a tent/mortgage payment/losing fixed rate and debt quickly spiraling out of control.
It’s a terrible time in NZ history to be homeless as there’s nothing out there to rent easily for average joe especially if just left a job.
So it was “forced” for many people just via the obligations to a third party which the govt would be well aware of affecting many.

[R650R]

Interesting watching what is going on. Some random impressions if I may?

When the protest started the idiots didn't even know what it was about. They still don't, it's a gethering of the disaffected and the mentally ill, organised by the Destiny Church.

Nobody owes them a hearing.

The group is tiny, anyone who thinks this is statistically significant is delusional. Attributing anything to do with this to "the silent majority" is idiocy. The silent majority are the 95% of the eligible population who are vaccinated.

The Army has no real role in this, although there has been talk of getting the Army to remove the vehicles. Tow truck operators like to present a tough image. If they can't do this job they will have a new image.

There is a Facebook page complaining about the "unprofessional" use of loud music by the Speaker and suggesting people ring and make a noise complaint. Good luck with that.
Music is better than fire hoses and batons, but thay haven't thought of that.

There was a group in Picton pissing off the locals. These were apparently the protestors who turned up at the ferry without vaccine passes - or negative tests. Fuckwits.

If Mallard were to threaten to charge the Destiny Church with the cost of reinstating the Parliament grounds to their normal state, the demo would be gone within an hour.

That’s a bit rough on towies... you do realise the fundementals at play dealing with mob psychology and modern health and safety requirements. The same govt asking them to tow the cars would prosecute the tow company owners if they got hurt in a scrap with protestors. No matter how tough you are you can’t beat numbers....

Mallards pathetic passive aggressive punitive actions further show the pathetic leadership at play here. Playing loud music and turning sprinklers on is a worse action than doing nothing. Our govt has gone full Karen, leaving an anonymous note in letterbox over unkempt lawns, made us a laughing stock on world stage.
China will still be pudding themself laughing when Cindy next goes begging on a trade mission...”ooh rook here comes sprinkler girl, she have tianamin square no tanks so list pray loud music and turn hose on... maybe we sell tanks for milk powder Jackie girl like the lada for butter deal...”

[FJRider]

Apparently the fact that police weren't wearing their hats at one stage also meant they were operating under "Admiralty Law"

The theories regarding Police wearing (and not wearing) hats has varied ... but they came about due to a rule for Ministry of Transport Officers. They (MOT) were officially REQUIRED to wear their hats (FULL uniform) to issue infringement notices. The dimmer Joe Public then believed (after MOT joined Police ranks) that they (POLICE) had to be wearing hats to carry out their duties also.

That is not the case. Their power and ability to enforce the law is not reduced (or removed) if they are not wearing hats.

[F5 Dave]

we almost need a superspreader event to get this thing through our population, getting it at the rate of 2-300 new people a day is going to take decades to go through everyone, ll they are doing now is going to push it into winter

Which would be dandy if getting infected gave us better immunity than the vaccine in the way that mumps or measles meant lifetime immunity. Butt fuck, sadly no.

[husaberg]

we almost need a superspreader event to get this thing through our population, getting it at the rate of 2-300 new people a day is going to take decades to go through everyone, ll they are doing now is going to push it into winter

You may have spoke too soon...
350679

here is what happened in NSW
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ihGyWWjEMu1M/v0/-1x-1.png

[FJRider]

Which would be dandy if getting infected gave us better immunity than the vaccine in the way that mumps or measles meant lifetime immunity. Butt fuck, sadly no.

A reminder for those that are vaccinated.

Carrying the virus ... is not the same as being infected by the virus.

Being infected by the virus ... is not the same as being affected by the virus.

Those UN-vaccinated ... The two above may well be the same thing.

[Kickaha]

Not sure why the Govt would need to spread Covid when they're quite happy to do it themselves, fucktards, although no doubt David is a paid Govt provocateur

[pete376403]

That second pages is a list of rules to be followed - Shock Horror, what happened to the freedoms??

[Trade_nancy]

But they are restricting freedoms for not proving vaccinated status and they are issuing fines for non-compliance.

That's a fiat of Force and therefore is a form of Mandate.

Well..you accept those restrictions on the road don't you? A licence or a fine....you drink and drive and you are treated as a leper....you can't do more than 80kph between Blenheim and Nelson....why not accept rules and restrictions on your health/life?

[Berries]

That second pages is a list of rules to be followed - Shock Horror, what happened to the freedoms??
And written by R650 by the look of it.



IÂ’ve not lived a sheltered life thank you, thatÂ’s why IÂ’m willing to speak up about societyÂ’s rights that our ancestors died for being taken away.

SNIP

Do not reply at do not reply dot com as scrolling multipist on phone is difficult to do accurately. I have heard your initial protest, acknowledged it with reply something g you might not get from Jacinda 😜😉
May I suggest you just don't bother with the phone?

[Stylo]

Maybe some have missed out on the digital age arriving . The fine on window is mere window dressing and deterrent to others much like a lion leaving the bones of its kill in its territory.
The real fine comes in the post.....
Many years ago a cop placed a fine notice on front of my truck while I was sleeping. It promptly got sucked into air intake next morning and the mechanic found it several months later during service lol

R650R. Lay off the crack pipe my friend. Think Donald Trump. You and him are the same. You're both special. Sorry. I don't do stupid, give me a break .

[R650R]

And written by R650 by the look of it.



May I suggest you just don't bother with the phone?

I doubt it.... sounds very similar to the BLM and occupy protests in the states. It seems like this lot are predominantly your typical lefty/commie types not used to functioning without a handout.
Might explain why Jacinda do reluctant to intervene, she doesn’t want to jail her own voter base before an election year coming up....
You can just imagine the conversation with the GSCB in beehive.
“Hey Jacinda we’ve ran all the protestors cars through the system after they passed the Ngaranga gorge ANPR camera and they 85% labour voters”

[Stylo]

I doubt it.... sounds very similar to the BLM and occupy protests in the states. It seems like this lot are predominantly your typical lefty/commie types not used to functioning without a handout.
Might explain why Jacinda do reluctant to intervene, she doesn’t want to jail her own voter base before an election year coming up....
You can just imagine the conversation with the GSCB in beehive.
“Hey Jacinda we’ve ran all the protestors cars through the system after they passed the Ngaranga gorge ANPR camera and they 85% labour voters”

Houston, we have a problem. Codename is R650R.

Code 9 , please expedite an emergency medical team to collect the individual and transport him to Parliament grounds. Reason ? Logic Deficit.

Throw Code R650R in to the swirling mass of stupid. He will assimilate readily.

[TheDemonLord]

why not accept rules and restrictions on your health/life?

Would you accept MY rules and restrictions for YOUR health and Life?

Answer me that first, then ask would you accept if MY rules/restrictions were forced upon you?

[pzkpfw]

Would you accept MY rules and restrictions for YOUR health and Life?

Answer me that first, then ask would you accept if MY rules/restrictions were forced upon you?


Population votes.

Government gets in.

Government makes rules/restrictions according to their idea of best for all.

Next election, maybe some other crowd gets in and changes the rules/restrictions.

... that's quite different to some random person, or a dictator, making those rules/restrictions.


Makes me laugh when this noisy minority holds up signs complaining about loss of democracy.

[TheDemonLord]

Population votes.

Government gets in.

Government makes rules/restrictions according to their idea of best for all.

Next election, maybe some other crowd gets in and changes the rules/restrictions.

... that's quite different to some random person, or a dictator, making those rules/restrictions.

Makes me laugh when this noisy minority holds up signs complaining about loss of democracy.

So, If the Population Votes and if the Government is elected and the Government makes the rules, then it's A-Okay?

I'm getting some very hazy memories of a Government that was elected, by popular Vote, then started taking away rights from a Minority group. Pretty sure it ended badly and everyone thinks that what they did was horrendously wrong...

The obvious answer the question is that no one here would accept my Rules/Restrictions on Health voluntarily, let alone under a fiat of Force, even if I was elected.

The reason being is that your life, your body and your health are your business, no one elses. Not Mine, Not Stalinda, Not the Government, Not the Bloke next door, Yours and Yours alone.

[pete376403]

Would you accept MY rules and restrictions for YOUR health and Life?

Answer me that first, then ask would you accept if MY rules/restrictions were forced upon you?

If you were the democratically elected head of government and the country was facing a worldwide health crisis that so far has killed millions in other countries AND the tactics the government has followed so far keeping this countries death toll to a a tiny fraction of what has happened overseas, then probably yes. And I might even wonder why you (as the head of government) are taking what appears to be such a light handed approach to those who would oppose said government tactics.

[pritch]

But they are restricting freedoms for not proving vaccinated status and they are issuing fines for non-compliance.

That's a fiat of Force and therefore is a form of Mandate.

As always it's about choices and consequences. Nothing different there.

[TheDemonLord]

As always it's about choices and consequences. Nothing different there.

'Well if you choose not to have sex with me, the consequence is you'll get your money confiscated and not be allowed to leave the house'

'If you choose not to hand over your phone and jewellery, there will be consequences'

Pritch, on matters of Consent and Coercion, 2022.

[TheDemonLord]

If you were the democratically elected head of government and the country was facing a worldwide health crisis that so far has killed millions in other countries AND the tactics the government has followed so far keeping this countries death toll to a a tiny fraction of what has happened overseas, then probably yes.

The word 'if' and the word 'probably' are doing an Awful lot of Heavy lifting in that sentence.

Now, the Tactics that this Government has followed - Read the John Hopkins study about the effectiveness of Lockdowns?

0.2% of deaths saved.

I have been consistent on this point that it wasn't Government Policy that 'saved' NZ, but our relative geographic Isolation, our limited number of entry points to the country, our very low population density.

With time more info has come out, it may be the case that NZ's higher UV radiation (thanks to the Ozone hole) may have also been a causal factor (reducing the time the virus is transmissible in the air)


And I might even wonder why you (as the head of government) are taking what appears to be such a light handed approach to those who would oppose said government tactics.

If I was the head of Government, I'd want the most spirited and empassioned debate, on any subject. I would not ask anyone to be silenced, I would allow all speech to happen so long as there was not a direct incitement to violence.

Just like on this Forum - I don't block people, I don't report people, I don't ignore people - I live for the Debate.

Speaking of which:

Honk Honk.

[pritch]

The demonstrators have pink eye at one end, foot rot at the other end, and the shits in the middle. And we're supposed to give serious consideration to their views on public health.

This morning I note that some chancers seeking to gain from this mess are referring to the demonstratore as "working class" and those opposing them as the "elites".
My initial reaction was that most would be unemployed, but it has been pointed out that some of the cars are too new to be owned by the impecunious.

As the local pub owner commented last night, the Council have been missing in action. True. That may be enough to jerk them into action.

There was a report from Canada that a business owner saw one of his vehicles in a TV news report on the protest there. He has hired a vehicle recovery firm to get his vehicle, and has terminated the employee who will find out in due course. Actions have consequences.

[pzkpfw]

So, If the Population Votes and if the Government is elected and the Government makes the rules, then it's A-Okay?

I'm getting some very hazy memories of a Government that was elected, by popular Vote, then started taking away rights from a Minority group. Pretty sure it ended badly and everyone thinks that what they did was horrendously wrong...

The obvious answer the question is that no one here would accept my Rules/Restrictions on Health voluntarily, let alone under a fiat of Force, even if I was elected.

The reason being is that your life, your body and your health are your business, no one elses. Not Mine, Not Stalinda, Not the Government, Not the Bloke next door, Yours and Yours alone.

Nice Godwin there.

Always the CT way to go right for the extreme, ignoring that real life is never so black and white.

The more Covid-sick people who walk around in public, the more they spread it to other people. The more Covid-sick people who end up in hospital, the more people who have other issues can't get the help they need. It's simply not as simple as saying your body and your health are only your business. This is a public health emergency, not something you can pretend is an individual issue.




( https://youtu.be/2P8qChwZZk8 )

[TheDemonLord]

Nice Godwin there.

Always the CT way to go right for the extreme, ignoring that real life is never so black and white.

You're the one saying that Democracy is the arbiter of Right or Wrong. I'm the one appealing to a higher value. In my world view, I can condemn immoral actions done to any minority with the approval of the Majority via a democratic vote, you cannot.


The more Covid-sick people who walk around in public, the more they spread it to other people. The more Covid-sick people who end up in hospital, the more people who have other issues can't get the help they need.

Sure - and perhaps if we saw that bodies were piling up in the street, I might have some sympathy for that argument. But it isn't, not even close and so any pragmatic argument that you might put forward is null and void.

If it was something like Small Pox, with a 30% mortality rate for Adults and 50% mortality rate for Children, I might (and I do stress might) concede that some form of Mandate and Government control is justified.

But it isn't even close. And Omircron (the one that put us into level red) is even less close than the worst variant of Covid (70 times less lethal than Delta).


It's simply not as simple as saying your body and your health are only your business.

It absolutely is. And here's why:

because if you are worried about YOUR body and YOUR health, you have the freedom to take steps to protect yourself

Think riding a Bike is too risky? Drive a car.
Think that riding in sandals is dangerous? Wear Boots.
Concerned about the group of 'youths' milling around the dimly lit alleyway? Take a different route.
Worried about catching a virulent airborne disease? Buy an N95 Mask and wear it properly fitted.

We all have the ability to make choices and determine our level of Risk. Some are happy with higher levels of Risk than others.


This is a public health emergency, not something you can pretend is an individual issue.

According to whom? The same people that are enforcing the Mandates? Not a conflict of interest there....

But further to that, not an Individual issue? Do you think it's a Collective issue then?

When it's for the 'greater good', any tyranny of 'the individual' becomes acceptable - as we have seen time and time again (and not just in a certain time period in Germany). Everything is an individual issue because as a society we are made up of Individuals. Any affront to one is an affront to all.


( https://youtu.be/2P8qChwZZk8 )

I got to 7 minutes of the video and so far all she has said is 'Wah they didn't include other studies' - Okay then, why should they have included those studies?

I mean, I get Meta-analysis studies should be treated with caution - and maybe she has a point - but she is simply saying 'they didn't include this study so it's worthless'. Sorry Love, but I'll need a bit more than that. Maybe a counter analysis?

[FJRider]

You're the one saying that Democracy is the arbiter of Right or Wrong.

Right or wrongly ... the Majority usually have THEIR way ...

The minority have ways to appeal it ... even change it.


I'm the one appealing to a higher value.

Like your god and your natural rights ... ??


In my world view, I can condemn immoral actions done to any minority with the approval of the Majority via a democratic vote, you cannot.


As I'm aware ... your ability to have "Democratic Vote" extends ONLY to New Zealand.

You can condemn anything you like on worldly affairs .... but your vote amounts to only ONE vote.

[neels]

Meh, tidy up a bit and then leave them to it.

Give them a timeframe to remove any illegally parked vehicles, after that remove them by tow truck/bulldozer/explosive at their own risk, just like any other illegally parked vehicle.

Once public access is restored to public areas, leave them to sit in their own filth for as long as they see fit, and otherwise ignore them.

Even if there are a few thousand of them there it's still a fraction of a percent of the total population. That makes them about as representative as the legalise cannabis party in terms of influence on government policy, or perhaps a better analogy would be the Alliance before their demise given that they seem to be a collection of splinter groups with no coherent message.

[TheDemonLord]

Right or wrongly ... the Majority usually have THEIR way ...

The minority have ways to appeal it ... even change it.

Indeed, and that's usually by appealing to:


your natural rights ... ??

You're starting to catch on ;)


As I'm aware ... your ability to have "Democratic Vote" extends ONLY to New Zealand.

You can condemn anything you like on worldly affairs .... but your vote amounts to only ONE vote.

However, when I condemn other affairs, I do so from a position that is consistent.

The protection of the individuals Natural Rights. Whether that's Apartheid, Stalinda, Uyghurs or other - my condemnation is not beholding to a popular vote.

[TheDemonLord]

Meh, tidy up a bit and then leave them to it.

Give them a timeframe to remove any illegally parked vehicles, after that remove them by tow truck/bulldozer/explosive at their own risk, just like any other illegally parked vehicle.

Once public access is restored to public areas, leave them to sit in their own filth for as long as they see fit, and otherwise ignore them.

Even if there are a few thousand of them there it's still a fraction of a percent of the total population. That makes them about as representative as the legalise cannabis party in terms of influence on government policy, or perhaps a better analogy would be the Alliance before their demise given that they seem to be a collection of splinter groups with no coherent message.

I agree on the first part, quite reasonable actually.

The illegally parked vehicles - unfortunately all the Left-wing protests have convinced me a little bit of Civil disobedience is fine.

As for the last part - they may be a fraction of the population in number, but the NZ Scanning app numbers don't lie - almost a drop of 50% usage. People are over it. Omicron is the sniffles and the justification for continued tyranny is gone.

[mashman]

The minority have ways to appeal it ... even change it.

No, they don't. Hence why they're protesting. The courts are refusing to hear the evidence of that appeal on the basis that the majority took the jab. As such, the protestors are very much making their duty of care to everyone in the country known. I know you don't like to think that the protestors are human beings, but they are. I know a few of 'em. Some good earners in there too. Some good earners who can't be there that are vaccinated that would also like to be there too, but hey, life. I'd suggest that if ya'll stopped being a cunt for long enough that the government would have to do the same. Let the science be heard, coz only then do you have a chance at hitting a mandate.

Oh yeah... it's science. Should be able to dismiss it in its own right without bias... wtf ya'll afraid of?

[neels]

As for the last part - they may be a fraction of the population in number, but the NZ Scanning app numbers don't lie - almost a drop of 50% usage. People are over it. Omicron is the sniffles and the justification for continued tyranny is gone.
The feeling seems to be that the reduction in scanning is because people are trying to avoid the restrictions associated with being identified as a contact, which presumably is what you are referring to as tyranny.

To be fair I get that, not wanting to be deemed a close contact just because you were at the opposite end of an aeroplane from someone who later tests positive, or if you're popping into the dairy for 5 minutes when you need to be exposed for 15 minutes without a mask to be considered a contact why bother.

Omicron is just the sniffles for some people, but not all of the people, otherwise there wouldn't be people in hospital. Whether that justifies the level of restrictions is a multi headed monster that can be debated forever without reaching an absolute conclusion.

[TheDemonLord]

The feeling seems to be that the reduction in scanning is because people are trying to avoid the restrictions associated with being identified as a contact, which presumably is what you are referring to as tyranny.

To be fair I get that, not wanting to be deemed a close contact just because you were at the opposite end of an aeroplane from someone who later tests positive, or if you're popping into the dairy for 5 minutes when you need to be exposed for 15 minutes without a mask to be considered a contact why bother.

Hold up, there's just a few teensy tiny things you're glossing over there (and I wouldn't be me if I didn't pick them up).

Firstly: What 'People'? We've gone from 2.5 million scans to 1.5 million - That is looking like some form of Majority or at least, a sizeable segment of Society - not just the 'few thousands of protestors' or 'some fringe minority'

Secondly: What does this tell you? People no longer feel the rules are reasonable to follow. Now, you can make an argument as to whether the rules were ever reasonable to follow (No points for guessing I never thought they were) but the Majority of the Population did and now they don't.

The Protestors have 2 main points of contention:

1: The choose to get vaccinated or not is a personal choice and should never be subject to any loss of rights or any form of discrimination.
2: The rules are now not fit for purpose.

People are looking overseas at the likes of the UK (which realistically only dropped all mandates to save BoJo due to Party Gate - but once again BoJo, in the most british way possible, stumbles blindly onto the right thing to do), the likes of the Canadians (Sorry Bout that, Honk Honk, Aye) and going 'actually, we want a bit of that'


Omicron is just the sniffles for some people, but not all of the people, otherwise there wouldn't be people in hospital. Whether that justifies the level of restrictions is a multi headed monster that can be debated forever without reaching an absolute conclusion.

The flu is just the sniffles for some people, yet I lost my Granddad (99 and 2/3rds) and my Wife lost her Great Granny (96) both to a Combination of being really old and getting the Flu.

So, it's not like I'm not aware that some people die of disease or complications of disease. Would they have traded a few more months of living for locking the entire country down during Flu season? I'm pretty confident saying that they wouldn't.

As you say, does it justify the level of restrictions? I think with the Data we now have on Omicron, that is a fairly objective 'No'.

I said right at the start of the Pandemic, if the Death rate went over 5% I'd start to get worried, well in hindsight - less than 1% death rate and Children practically immune.

[R650R]

The feeling seems to be that the reduction in scanning is because people are trying to avoid the restrictions associated with being identified as a contact, which presumably is what you are referring to as tyranny.

To be fair I get that, not wanting to be deemed a close contact just because you were at the opposite end of an aeroplane from someone who later tests positive, or if you're popping into the dairy for 5 minutes when you need to be exposed for 15 minutes without a mask to be considered a contact why bother.

Omicron is just the sniffles for some people, but not all of the people, otherwise there wouldn't be people in hospital. Whether that justifies the level of restrictions is a multi headed monster that can be debated forever without reaching an absolute conclusion.

A few things you may have missed (I did because I refuse to watch the daily propoganda show)
You are ONLY a close contact if in a bar/massage parlour/aeroplane etc eg lots of people confined space for long time.
Any normal shops supermarket dairy etc you are not a close contact even if there at same time, they only want you to get tested if you have symptoms in those occasions. So effectively scanning is redundant at all places except those mentioned in first place as by default a good citizen that believes in all this would get themselves tested if they had symptoms regardless of where they had been as per public health request.
If Adern and co had any brains at they would have realised this very obvious contradiction and removed the MANDATE to scan everywhere to only scan at businesses involving close intimate contact or nightclubs etc and then the protest never would have started.....

Towing starts at 6.30 tonight should be entertaining....

[neels]

Firstly: What 'People'? We've gone from 2.5 million scans to 1.5 million - That is looking like some form of Majority or at least, a sizeable segment of Society - not just the 'few thousands of protestors' or 'some fringe minority'.
In no way referring to the protesters, in fact entirely referring to the majority who have either lost interest in scanning codes, or would rather avoid the restrictions associated with being identified as a covid contact.


Secondly: What does this tell you? People no longer feel the rules are reasonable to follow. Now, you can make an argument as to whether the rules were ever reasonable to follow (No points for guessing I never thought they were) but the Majority of the Population did and now they don't.
It was very apparent that a significant number of people chose to ignore the rules in last year's lockdown as compared to the first, so it logically follows that as the duration of restrictions extend the level of compliance will continue to decrease, particularly when there is no perceived threat.

[R650R]

Im still laughing at this .... https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127764002/protest-at-parliament-looks-imported-jacinda-ardern-says-questions-the-motivations-of-those-involved

Some of us think our leaders look “imported” too... like from Korea or China.....

Jesus she’s really trying to play the stereotypes and stitch up a bit of American politics into mix too.
Yeah it’s like no other nz protest before AAC never had our leaders ran away and refused to talk...

[R650R]

This morning I note that some chancers seeking to gain from this mess are referring to the demonstratore as "working class" and those opposing them as the "elites".
My initial reaction was that most would be unemployed, but it has been pointed out that some of the cars are too new to be owned by the impecunious.



How flash your car/bike is stopped being a status symbol long time ago. Predatory finance companies lend to anyone these days. Unless your up in mcclarenf1/Bugatti/Bentley etc your ride means nothing

[neels]

You are ONLY a close contact if in a bar/massage parlour/aeroplane etc eg lots of people confined space for long time.
Actually a few more places than that, which is a likely explanation for the reduction in scanning. On the basis of the below the likelihood of a contact notification would be much less scanning in to individual shops in a mall, rather than the mall itself. Some of the definitions would apply to a huge number of workplaces. There's also a reasonable likelihood of encountering a numpty who can't wear a mask properly.

You are also considered a Close Contact if you have:

been close (within 1.5 metres) to a positive case of COVID-19 for more than 15 minutes and the Case was not wearing a mask or wasn’t wearing it properly
or
had direct contact with respiratory secretions or saliva from a Case (eg, kissing, shared a cigarette, vape or drink bottle, or if the person coughed or sneezed directly on you)
or
spent time in an indoor space for more than 1 hour with a case and at least one of the following:
the Case was singing, shouting, smoking, vaping, exercising, or dancing
the Case was not wearing a mask or wasn’t wearing it properly
the indoor space was poorly ventilated (ie, there were no windows or doors open)
the indoor space was smaller than 100m2 (about three double garages).


as by default a good citizen that believes in all this would get themselves tested if they had symptoms regardless of where they had been as per public health request.
I suspect that's not a reasonable assumption


Towing starts at 6.30 tonight should be entertaining....
Back on topic, best get the live stream on and pull up a chair, and wait for the screams of oppression and brutality to begin.

[pritch]

Im still laughing at this .... https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127764002/protest-at-parliament-looks-imported-jacinda-ardern-says-questions-the-motivations-of-those-involved



She's right though. These dickheads decided to try to copy what was happening in Canada. When they started to organise a convoy they didn't even know why they were doing it. They still don't. It's just a grab bag of misfits and mental cases with no clear goal.

They want to negotiate with the government but they can't all agree on what they want. It would be a waste of time talking to them but it may happen anyway. They are all getting sick, cold, and tired. Somebody might talk to them to give them an excuse to say they won and fuck off before their kids are taken off them for child neglect.

[R650R]

She's right though. These dickheads decided to try to copy what was happening in Canada. When they started to organise a convoy they didn't even know why they were doing it. They still don't. It's just a grab bag of misfits and mental cases with no clear goal.

They want to negotiate with the government but they can't all agree on what they want. It would be a waste of time talking to them but it may happen anyway. They are all getting sick, cold, and tired. Somebody might talk to them to give them an excuse to say they won and fuck off before their kids are taken off them for child neglect.

Isn’t it ironic in the age of MMP coalition govts we have now a coalition protest with similar unclear direction....

Anyhow this bloke has wiped the floor with Jacinda and shown us what real leadership and direction sounds like. He just raised the public opinion of the police by orders of magnitude on both sides id say. No petty name calling or judgement just states some of the issues and things that need to happen for it to carry on in a safe manner and whatever being done in terms of creating dialogue with the leadership elements of the protestors. Legend and full respect.


https://youtu.be/TjyT9Oh-XEM

[R650R]

Back on topic, best get the live stream on and pull up a chair, and wait for the screams of oppression and brutality to begin.

It seems they’ve all suddenly ended.... a national security D notice by Jacinda.... or perhaps media trying to redirect us to their direct platforms briefly for ad revenue....?????

Anyhow judging by what that awesome cop said in the video posted above it seems like our police have too much integrity and self respect to let it turn into a disaster despite what many protagonists on both side are prob gagging for it....

[TheDemonLord]

In no way referring to the protesters, in fact entirely referring to the majority who have either lost interest in scanning codes, or would rather avoid the restrictions associated with being identified as a covid contact.

It was very apparent that a significant number of people chose to ignore the rules in last year's lockdown as compared to the first, so it logically follows that as the duration of restrictions extend the level of compliance will continue to decrease, particularly when there is no perceived threat.

Both of which are the basis for my saying that the Protest, despite it being small in the numbers actually at parliament, has a wide, grass-roots basis for support.

People have lost interest (as you say) and no longer perceive a threat.

[TheDemonLord]

She's right though. These dickheads decided to try to copy what was happening in Canada. When they started to organise a convoy they didn't even know why they were doing it. They still don't. It's just a grab bag of misfits and mental cases with no clear goal.

They want to negotiate with the government but they can't all agree on what they want. It would be a waste of time talking to them but it may happen anyway. They are all getting sick, cold, and tired. Somebody might talk to them to give them an excuse to say they won and fuck off before their kids are taken off them for child neglect.

Which is it Pritch?

Do they have no clear goal or are they copying another protest (with a very well established goal)?

You can't have it both ways. From everything I've seen, there is an overarching goal which is the removal of the Mandates and restrictions, Now.

Not when Stalinda decrees it, but now. A notion I wholeheartedly support.

[pritch]

Which is it Pritch?

Do they have no clear goal or are they copying another protest (with a very well established goal)?

You can't have it both ways. From everything I've seen, there is an overarching goal which is the removal of the Mandates and restrictions, Now.

Not when Stalinda decrees it, but now. A notion I wholeheartedly support.


I can absolutely have it both ways because that's exactly what's happening.

Removing "mandates" just as COVID moves in to top gear would be insane, but OK you do you.

[R650R]

I can absolutely have it both ways because that's exactly what's happening.

Removing "mandates" just as COVID moves in to top gear would be insane, but OK you do you.

Delta was the TopGear version although promised to be ‘faster’ than last years model turned out to be limited by electronic rider aids. Omicron was originally marketed as like a panigale V4sp but instead is a 900ss tourer with non removable euro7 emmisions mapping.
If removing mandates is insane why’s is govt allowing sick essential workers to keep working and reducing isolation times. Remember we told even one preventable death is worth the sacrifice of lockdown life.....

[husaberg]

Delta was the TopGear version although promised to be ‘faster’ than last years model turned out to be limited by electronic rider aids. Omicron was originally marketed as like a panigale V4sp but instead is a 900ss tourer with non removable euro7 emmisions mapping.
If removing mandates is insane why’s is govt allowing sick essential workers to keep working and reducing isolation times. Remember we told even one preventable death is worth the sacrifice of lockdown life.....

maybe you could explain how covid has caused
Ireland Total cases 1.24M
Deaths 6,291
in Ireland a country with a similar population size to NZ, if NZ is so badly, managed the situation why has Ireland had so many more people die and so many more cases.
NZ Covid Total Cases 21,573
Deaths 53

350683350684
I have also added in AUS UK and USA to show how out of touch with reality you really are
350685350687350686
US Cases 77,600,000 (thats 77 million SFB)
Deaths 918,000

UK Cases 18 000 000
Deaths 160,000

AUS
2.920,000 Case
Deaths 4,618

Also why has everyone else in the whole world had more people die per capita? you know those pesky little details you like to avoid talking about.
i look forward to your traditional lack of response.

[TheDemonLord]

I can absolutely have it both ways because that's exactly what's happening.

I haven't used this phrase in a while, but I think it's warranted here: That's some major cognitive dissonance.

You acknowledge they are copying a protest, but refuse to acknowledge they are copying the thing being protested.

Despite the signs.
Despite the messages.
Despite the words of those who support the protest.
Despite everything.


Removing "mandates" just as COVID moves in to top gear would be insane, but OK you do you.

I mean first and foremost, there was never any moral justification for Mandates, regardless of whether COVID is in top gear or not.

However, according to The Sciencetm Omicron is literally the Sniffles.

Less deadly than the seasonal Flu.
70 times less deadly than Delta.

[FJRider]

The courts are refusing to hear the evidence of that appeal on the basis that the majority took the jab.

AND ... All the Lawyers in this country ... aren't willing to represent ANY of them in a court case of some/any kind. I wonder why that is ... ??


As such, the protestors are very much making their duty of care to everyone in the country known. I know you don't like to think that the protestors are human beings, but they are.

What "Duty of Care" do those protesting have ... to ANYBODY but themselves AND their families ... ???

Those that made decisions (For or against the jabs) ... made their own choice of their own free will. Those that got the jabs ... will have to live with it (Being vaccinated will give them a better chance). I hope the one's that didn't are feeling lucky. They might need some good luck.

A primary "duty of care" means ... that a business (Read Government here) has the primary responsibility for the health and safety of workers and others influenced by its work (read Population). All businesses/Government must ensure ... so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of its workers (Population) and any other workers who are influenced or directed by the business (Beneficiaries .. ??) .

The idiots that thought 90% of the population vaccinated meant ... "Herd Immunity" would be declared. Then ... they wouldn't NEED to get a jab. Well ... they were wrong ... it didn't happen.

The "Duty of care" was by the Government ... To the population. And they provided FREE vaccinations to those that wanted it. That seems to include you.

Even early on ... the ramifications were spelt out if some chose not to get vaccinated. Even those IN employment were warned. So nobody can say they were NOT warned. I bet you got your jabs pretty early on in the process.


I know a few of 'em. Some good earners in there too. Some good earners who can't be there that are vaccinated that would also like to be there too, but hey, life. I'd suggest that if ya'll stopped being a cunt for long enough that the government would have to do the same. Let the science be heard, coz only then do you have a chance at hitting a mandate.

I know of a few too. I've made decisions in my life that ... although they were in MY (And my family's) best interest ... I wasn't happy about. But NEVER regretted it in the long term. I've made more than a few "I WANT" decisions too ... most of those didn't work out though. But it didn't stop me trying.

Good luck with your "I WANT" choices ... I hope it works for you. And your family.


Oh yeah... it's science. Should be able to dismiss it in its own right without bias... wtf ya'll afraid of?

I got the jabs ... I'm happy enough with that science.

Afraid ... nope.


Those protesters that are unvaccinated ... have more to fear than I have.

[FJRider]

Indeed, and that's usually by appealing to:

YOUR God ... ??

Oh wait ... you don't believe that.

All because it's YOUR RIGHT to (NOT) believe that.



I believe I'll have another beer. (and I did)



However, when I condemn other affairs, I do so from a position that is consistent.

Consistently WRONG.

But you knew that ... because I keep telling you that. So ... later you can't say you weren't told.


The protection of the individuals Natural Rights. Whether that's Apartheid, Stalinda, Uyghurs or other - my condemnation is not beholding to a popular vote.

I chose the protection the Vaccinations awarded me.

The solutions to one or two of those you've mentioned ... I've already attempted to address. I might have even mentioned the caliber of such solutions.

Some solutions ... really gets the attention of those you're gunning for. It works better than "A popular vote".

Trying to shout over loud speakers ... in the rain ... in the dark ... and (apparently) getting your car towed ... just doesn't cut it.


Funny that.


But not as funny as the one simple fact ... 99% percent of those protesting ANYWHERE in NZ on vaccination issues ... VOTED for the Current Prime Ministers Government ... in one form or another.



Do you not see the funny side to that ... :killingme

[R650R]

Those that made decisions (For or against the jabs) ... made their own choice of their own free will.

It’s not of your own free will when the ramifications to not get it mean a potential loss of earnings of 1-1.5 million during final years of employment plus the ramifications very on other business projects and investments.

It’s a bit like the free choices the mafia gives you.

“ Look here Antonio I’m not forcing you to make decision buyback it’s like this. You can either contribute to the familia or not. And maybe Bobby might’ve or might not have an accident with a few gallons of petrol out front of your store. It’s your own choice Antonio we trust you make your own free choice..... heyaaa cook never some fucking pizza ok and think about it... but don’t take to long ok”

[R650R]

Toot tooooooot tot toot toot....,

Coming to suburbia near you... they may be leaving g Wellington but we have protestors outside our local pub on way home lol

[mashman]

AND ... All the Lawyers in this country ... aren't willing to represent ANY of them in a court case of some/any kind. I wonder why that is ... ??



What "Duty of Care" do those protesting have ... to ANYBODY but themselves AND their families ... ???

Those that made decisions (For or against the jabs) ... made their own choice of their own free will. Those that got the jabs ... will have to live with it (Being vaccinated will give them a better chance). I hope the one's that didn't are feeling lucky. They might need some good luck.

A primary "duty of care" means ... that a business (Read Government here) has the primary responsibility for the health and safety of workers and others influenced by its work (read Population). All businesses/Government must ensure ... so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of its workers (Population) and any other workers who are influenced or directed by the business (Beneficiaries .. ??) .

The idiots that thought 90% of the population vaccinated meant ... "Herd Immunity" would be declared. Then ... they wouldn't NEED to get a jab. Well ... they were wrong ... it didn't happen.

The "Duty of care" was by the Government ... To the population. And they provided FREE vaccinations to those that wanted it. That seems to include you.

Even early on ... the ramifications were spelt out if some chose not to get vaccinated. Even those IN employment were warned. So nobody can say they were NOT warned. I bet you got your jabs pretty early on in the process.



I know of a few too. I've made decisions in my life that ... although they were in MY (And my family's) best interest ... I wasn't happy about. But NEVER regretted it in the long term. I've made more than a few "I WANT" decisions too ... most of those didn't work out though. But it didn't stop me trying.

Good luck with your "I WANT" choices ... I hope it works for you. And your family.



I got the jabs ... I'm happy enough with that science.

Afraid ... nope.


Those protesters that are unvaccinated ... have more to fear than I have.

NZ is represented in the global case that no courts will hear.

They're not "I want" choices. They are, "there is another body of science choices.". I know you don't like that, but it is entirely true. There is another body of evidence that is not being considered and has been surpressed for at least 18 months.

Therefore, their "Duty of Care" is adhering to that evidence in the hope that it saves lives that needn't be lost, nor indeed lead us down roads that we were told that we wouldn't end up going down only to find ourselves in that very position today. Oh irony eh... but they didn't just throw their hands in the air and tell society to go fuck itself under threat of a pandemic for no scientific reasoning.

The unvaccinated are happy for the borders to open. Go ahead. Get it done. If they had any fear, they wouldn't be protesting against what the meda would have us believe is the entire country. Do it. Get Cinders to end the mandate and just open the fucking borders. The protestors will happily go home and isolate if required... just as they have before Covid when they've caught a nasty cold.

The same level of "Duty of Care" extends from both government and protestors depending on the evidence. So open the borders. We're good.

[pritch]

I haven't used this phrase in a while, but I think it's warranted here: That's some major cognitive dissonance.

You acknowledge they are copying a protest, but refuse to acknowledge they are copying the thing being protested.

Despite the signs.
Despite the messages.
Despite the words of those who support the protest.
Despite everything.



I mean first and foremost, there was never any moral justification for Mandates, regardless of whether COVID is in top gear or not.

However, according to The Sciencetm Omicron is literally the Sniffles.

Less deadly than the seasonal Flu.
70 times less deadly than Delta.

The cognitive dissonances are with the grab bag of fuckwits at the protest. You are greatly overestimating their cognitive abilities. They saw a protest and decided they were having one too. Some of them are anti vax, some are anti mandate, some want to execute politicians, some want to execute journalists, some are just into a demo - any demo.

Again it would seem you've been reading nonsense. There are several things currently being circulated as scientific including "a Lancet article." None stand much scrutiny.

In Britain, the USA, and even Australia, impressive numbers of people are dying of your "sniffles".

[Stylo]

But they are restricting freedoms for not proving vaccinated status and they are issuing fines for non-compliance.

That's a fiat of Force and therefore is a form of Mandate.

Funny how we've heard the shouts from the protesters about 'Our fathers fought for our rights and freedom in WW2!' My Grandad was one of them . He went to WW2 because he was conscripted. A Mandate in other words. To not comply potentially meant you were off to Jail. He didn't want to go but, he had to. Bert was a pilot, He came home ok but only needed one shoe for the rest of his life.

The protesters at Parliament have no idea about freedom. Tow them out and stop their benefits. They are anti New Zealand. Facebook is not a bible.

[R650R]

Someone made a list of the issues so here’s a cut and paste. I may or may not agree or disagree with everything on the list. Feel free pigeons to come play chess on the board lol

“For the people who don't understand why people around the world have Convoyed to the Capital or are joining freedom protests, well here's why….

It’s for the family members banned from visiting loved ones in nursing homes.

It's for the people who couldn't attend funerals and bury their loved ones.

It’s for censorship on all social media platforms.

It’s for all the people too afraid to speak up in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.

It’s for the people who willingly got the J because they were told it would end the lockdowns and it didn’t.

It’s for the people who willingly got the J so they could open their business again, only to be told they can’t.

It's for all the people who can no longer buy homes because of housing unaffordability and unavailability.

It’s for the people who didn’t want to get J but were coerced to.

It’s for the people who don’t want to give up their freedom of choice.

It’s for the people who only want answers to the many questions that haven’t been answered.

It’s for the people told to be to afraid to hug their family and visit their friends.

It’s for the kids to go back to being kids and to stop having to live their lives revolving around politicians’ whims.

It’s for all the religious people who were told their faith “doesn’t count”.

It’s for all the families that lost a loved one to suicide.

It’s for all the people who took their own lives due to this entrapment.

Its for the mental health advocates that love and care but who aren't being supported and heard.

Its for our people too, especially our teenagers, who can't access the mental health services and counselling that they so much need.

It’s for all the thousands of nurses, doctors, police, emergency services of all kinds, teachers, early childhood workers & many other trade workers who have lost their job due to not wanting to have the J for their own personal beliefs.

It’s for the people who want their lives back.

For the restaurants to serve food to everyone.

For the bars to play music.

For the students to learn.

For the kids to be free.

For the people made homeless.

For people who want to work but are forced not to.

This is for those people.

This is for trying to silence honest and hardworking citizens.

This is for all the people told they can’t go to church.

This is for trying to steal local water assets via Three Waters Reform.

This is for trying to restrict our freedom of speech, our fundamental democratic right.

This is for trying to remove our religious freedoms through shaming & bullying.

This is for spending billions on advertising campaigns instead of using it to actually care for our sick & elderly. What a shame!

This is for the abuse taking place in our long term care facilities that have been swept under the rug for too long.

This is for the sufferers of adverse side effects being ignored & shamed.

This is for the lives that we lost to the J. We will never forget you nor will we stop fighting for the justice you deserve.

This is for trying to demonize good people.

This is for trying to create a two-tier society.

Never in my life have I ever seen the healthy punished and the sick untreated...Why have we made the cure worse then the problem itself?

This is for the 300,000 surgeries canceled because of the “health emergency”.
This is for the people that died waiting for their surgery.

This is for the people who died alone in the hospital without being able to hold the hands of their loved ones.

This is for everyone, even those that don't think they need it, it's for them and their children too.

This is for our future generations.

This is for the shattered relationships of families and friends, divided by the hysterical fear-mongering conducted by their government and media.

This is for the exhausted nurses. This is for the doctors that are threatened and silenced for speaking out.

This is for all the front line workers… delivery trucks, grocery store clerks & emergency service workers who are constantly working overtime.

This too is for our children, who we teach to stand strong, bold & firm. May they be able to stand tall once again and declare too that they have a dream.

But finally this is for everyone of us, may we all be one people again.

"Courage is infectious & so is Unity. "

Thank you to everyone from around the world for fighting for our human rights.

YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

Parts copy and pasted unsure of original source 🙏❤️“

[Berries]

Gave me a laugh anyway.

[husaberg]

It’s for all the people too afraid to speak up in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.



You, conspiracy Theorists, will accept any form of evidence as long as it conforms to your worldview, ie confirmation bias whilst at the same time requesting impossibly high standards of Evidence for anything that contradicts your theories.
Conspiracy theorists are much more likely to adopt a conspiratorial position on any given issue.
ie If there was an allegation made against a group, I would bet that you would pick the side that was against that group or institution regardless of the quality of the evidence nearly all of the time.

[F5 Dave]

Gave me a laugh anyway.
I was literally the first person to ride around the Karori BMX track, although they seem to have extended it a little.

Good to see people helping other clubs out.

As for the rest, well no surprise. Entitled people often steal because they think they deserve it.

[Stylo]

Someone made a list of the issues so here’s a cut and paste. I may or may not agree or disagree with everything on the list. Feel free pigeons to come play chess on the board lol

“For the people who don't understand why people around the world have Convoyed to the Capital or are joining freedom protests, well here's why….

It’s for the family members banned from visiting loved ones in nursing homes.

It's for the people who couldn't attend funerals and bury their loved ones.

It’s for censorship on all social media platforms.

It’s for all the people too afraid to speak up in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.

It’s for the people who willingly got the J because they were told it would end the lockdowns and it didn’t.

It’s for the people who willingly got the J so they could open their business again, only to be told they can’t.

It's for all the people who can no longer buy homes because of housing unaffordability and unavailability.

It’s for the people who didn’t want to get J but were coerced to.

It’s for the people who don’t want to give up their freedom of choice.

It’s for the people who only want answers to the many questions that haven’t been answered.

It’s for the people told to be to afraid to hug their family and visit their friends.

It’s for the kids to go back to being kids and to stop having to live their lives revolving around politicians’ whims.

It’s for all the religious people who were told their faith “doesn’t count”.

It’s for all the families that lost a loved one to suicide.

It’s for all the people who took their own lives due to this entrapment.

Its for the mental health advocates that love and care but who aren't being supported and heard.

Its for our people too, especially our teenagers, who can't access the mental health services and counselling that they so much need.

It’s for all the thousands of nurses, doctors, police, emergency services of all kinds, teachers, early childhood workers & many other trade workers who have lost their job due to not wanting to have the J for their own personal beliefs.

It’s for the people who want their lives back.

For the restaurants to serve food to everyone.

For the bars to play music.

For the students to learn.

For the kids to be free.

For the people made homeless.

For people who want to work but are forced not to.

This is for those people.

This is for trying to silence honest and hardworking citizens.

This is for all the people told they can’t go to church.

This is for trying to steal local water assets via Three Waters Reform.

This is for trying to restrict our freedom of speech, our fundamental democratic right.

This is for trying to remove our religious freedoms through shaming & bullying.

This is for spending billions on advertising campaigns instead of using it to actually care for our sick & elderly. What a shame!

This is for the abuse taking place in our long term care facilities that have been swept under the rug for too long.

This is for the sufferers of adverse side effects being ignored & shamed.

This is for the lives that we lost to the J. We will never forget you nor will we stop fighting for the justice you deserve.

This is for trying to demonize good people.

This is for trying to create a two-tier society.

Never in my life have I ever seen the healthy punished and the sick untreated...Why have we made the cure worse then the problem itself?

This is for the 300,000 surgeries canceled because of the “health emergency”.
This is for the people that died waiting for their surgery.

This is for the people who died alone in the hospital without being able to hold the hands of their loved ones.

This is for everyone, even those that don't think they need it, it's for them and their children too.

This is for our future generations.

This is for the shattered relationships of families and friends, divided by the hysterical fear-mongering conducted by their government and media.

This is for the exhausted nurses. This is for the doctors that are threatened and silenced for speaking out.

This is for all the front line workers… delivery trucks, grocery store clerks & emergency service workers who are constantly working overtime.

This too is for our children, who we teach to stand strong, bold & firm. May they be able to stand tall once again and declare too that they have a dream.

But finally this is for everyone of us, may we all be one people again.

"Courage is infectious & so is Unity. "

Thank you to everyone from around the world for fighting for our human rights.

YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

Parts copy and pasted unsure of original source ��❤️“

Are you smoking weed again R650R ? We already are 'One New Zealand' . Apart from the selfish Alt right facebook wankers like yourself and the other fuckwit gypsys overstaying at parliament. Best pack your tent up you fucking idiot. Your car is about to get towed away from the Beehive. Move to another country please. We don't want you here. Fuck off. Tell your fellow protesters the same. You're not a New Zealander. You're a traitor. and so are they.

[FJRider]

NZ is represented in the global case that no courts will hear.

Until the dust settles on the entire Covid issue ... especially ... in regard to "Who CAUSED it" ... NO "Global" court will be likely to.

Bugger ... eh .. !!!


They're not "I want" choices. They are, "there is another body of science choices.". I know you don't like that, but it is entirely true. There is another body of evidence that is not being considered and has been surpressed for at least 18 months.

In the dictionary ... they are described as ... THEORIES.

Some groups call it alternate medicine. With theories. (As yet unproven) ... and with no funding from OUR Government available. BUT ... the basic DEMAND from ANY of the protest group ... is simply they don't want a jab. ANY jab.


Therefore, their "Duty of Care" is adhering to that evidence in the hope that it saves lives that needn't be lost, nor indeed lead us down roads that we were told that we wouldn't end up going down only to find ourselves in that very position today. Oh irony eh... but they didn't just throw their hands in the air and tell society to go fuck itself under threat of a pandemic for no scientific reasoning.

As I said in the previous post ... the only duty of care they see is to themselves. They don't want a jab. ANY jab. And the reality they see in their life is ... they are a minority group ... and life is difficult for minority groups (Who knew). Those of them that want their freedoms ... should just get the jab.

Like YOU did.


The unvaccinated are happy for the borders to open. Go ahead. Get it done.

I'm not. There is plenty of Covid about ... brought in by New Zealander's coming back. By supposedly negative tested Kiwi people.

And you want open slather entry at the border. Get real.

Those unvaccinated would be SERIOUSLY at risk of catching covid then.


If they had any fear, they wouldn't be protesting against what the meda would have us believe is the entire country. Do it. Get Cinders to end the mandate and just open the fucking borders. The protestors will happily go home and isolate if required... just as they have before Covid when they've caught a nasty cold.

They haven't shown ANY compulsion to follow any of the rules so far ... why should they start now.


The same level of "Duty of Care" extends from both government and protestors depending on the evidence. So open the borders. We're good.

90% of NZ vaccinated. More getting the jab each day.

Somebody better come up with some "Evidence" soon.

Solid Medical Advice. With evidence of approved testing.

Theories need not be forwarded.

[Kickaha]

It’s for all the families that lost a loved one to suicide.

It’s for all the people who took their own lives due to this entrapment.



Just on those two points, suicide rates in NZ have dropped while this has gone on and the same has happened in some places overseas as well

[mashman]

Until the dust settles on the entire Covid issue ... especially ... in regard to "Who CAUSED it" ... NO "Global" court will be likely to.

Bugger ... eh .. !!!



In the dictionary ... they are described as ... THEORIES.

Some groups call it alternate medicine. With theories. (As yet unproven) ... and with no funding from OUR Government available. BUT ... the basic DEMAND from ANY of the protest group ... is simply they don't want a jab. ANY jab.



As I said in the previous post ... the only duty of care they see is to themselves. They don't want a jab. ANY jab. And the reality they see in their life is ... they are a minority group ... and life is difficult for minority groups (Who knew). Those of them that want their freedoms ... should just get the jab.

Like YOU did.



I'm not. There is plenty of Covid about ... brought in by New Zealander's coming back. By supposedly negative tested Kiwi people.

And you want open slather entry at the border. Get real.

Those unvaccinated would be SERIOUSLY at risk of catching covid then.



They haven't shown ANY compulsion to follow any of the rules so far ... why should they start now.



90% of NZ vaccinated. More getting the jab each day.

Somebody better come up with some "Evidence" soon.

Solid Medical Advice. With evidence of approved testing.

Theories need not be forwarded.

The dust doesn't settle until the science of both parties is confirmed. That's what courts are for. Almost as if someone wants it that way for people to argue over :shifty:

All science is theoretically correct. Your argument is moot. :bleh:. By all means remove the possibility that the protestors could possibly be serving anyone other than themselves with regards to "Duty of Care", you seem not to be able to let go of that one, but that ain't the hearts and thoughts of the people I know who went. They have seen the other science and look to have put more stock in it.

As for alternatives. They are proven, because they have been used in exceptionally large trials in a couple of provinces in India, also at a few practices in the US, some practices in Italy, Japan and likely far more these days given just ow successful its use has been. There in no unproven there, just a shitload of misinformation from start to finish. Put it this way, if the Ivermectin therapies had been unsuccessful, anyone using it would have been jailed for killing/maiming/making people slightly woozy... and yet they're all still practicing and prescribing as they have deemed fit through experimentation using their decades of experience and training.

v's

Reality does not match Testing.

The protestors have more than just a point. They have science on their side. A science that no one will hear :killingme..... and you don;t think there's anything dodgy about that?

[TheDemonLord]

The cognitive dissonances are with the grab bag of fuckwits at the protest. You are greatly overestimating their cognitive abilities. They saw a protest and decided they were having one too.

Yep, And for the same reasons. That's the bit you are deliberately ignoring.


Some of them are anti vax, some are anti mandate

Both of those, however, want the right to choose. That's the bit you are deliberately ignoring.


some want to execute politicians, some want to execute journalists

Who doesn't....

I've seen these reports, I think the charitable interpretation of these claims would be 'Red Herring' and the uncharitable interpretation would be something akin to the burning of the Reichstag.


Again it would seem you've been reading nonsense. There are several things currently being circulated as scientific including "a Lancet article." None stand much scrutiny.

In Britain, the USA, and even Australia, impressive numbers of people are dying of your "sniffles".

Dying Of or Dying With? Those are two very different scenarios. The numbers Dying Of Omicron are equivalent to the numbers of people who die of the seasonal flu. Yes, it's a 'deadly' disease, so is the Flu - we don't have a national panic each time Flu season comes round.

[Berries]

The protestors have more than just a point. They have science on their side. A science that no one will hear
Not sure many people will take scientific advice from a group who are literally standing in their own shit.

[pete376403]

Dying Of or Dying With? Those are two very different scenarios. The numbers Dying Of Omicron are equivalent to the numbers of people who die of the seasonal flu. Yes, it's a 'deadly' disease, so is the Flu - we don't have a national panic each time Flu season comes round.

Not exactly " the sniffles" as you have described it. The longer Omicron is out of control, the greater the chance it may evolve into another, even more dangerous variant.

"In the US, Omicron is claiming an average of 2,200 lives each day – higher than the Delta variant, which peaked at a seven-day average of 2,078 in September last year, according to Reuters analysis."

Omicron is less severe but ‘not mild’
“We have increasing information that Omicron is less severe than Delta, but it is still a dangerous virus,” says the World Health Organization’s Dr Maria Van Kerkhove, in a recent video explaining the impact of the variant.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/01/omicron-covid19-death-toll-severity/

[nerrrd]

Someone made a list of the issues so hereÂ’s a cut and paste. I may or may not agree or disagree with everything on the list. Feel free pigeons to come play chess on the board lol

“For the people who don't understand why people around the world have Convoyed to the Capital or are joining freedom protests, well here's why….

...Parts copy and pasted unsure of original source ���“

That's quite a narrative you've built for yourselves there.

Nobody forced me to get vaccinated, it was the sensible thing to do given the circumstances and the recommendations of the vast majority of health professionals.

As the circumstances have changed, the advice has changed. In another 6 months it will have changed again. Obviously.

People are getting sick of putting up with the restrictions, fair enough. Some have paid a terrible price for them, both financially and personally, and deserve sympathy and compensation. The government and public service can always do better, and should be more flexible and open to advice. The government might lose the next election over it. If they do we'll get a slightly different government that will largely do exactly the same thing (including making mistakes) and so on and so on.

Or the internet will sponsor a worldwide existential crisis that undermines confidence in existing public and political institutions to the point where civilisation collapses.

Because...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvMeT2GC14

[TheDemonLord]

Not exactly " the sniffles" as you have described it. The longer Omicron is out of control, the greater the chance it may evolve into another, even more dangerous variant.

Unlikely. Whilst Viruses can mutate to be more deadly, the usual trend is that they get milder over time. And there's an easy thought experiment that backs this up: Who spreads more disease? The person that drops dead or the person that lives to spread it far and wide?


"In the US, Omicron is claiming an average of 2,200 lives each day – higher than the Delta variant, which peaked at a seven-day average of 2,078 in September last year, according to Reuters analysis."

The devil is in the detail. Half of those are over 75 (something something Flu season something) and the other half are either unvaccinated (their choice) or have underlying health issues.

Remember what I said about Dying Of vs Dying with?

And let's just take a moment to remind ourselves what Flu season looks like in the US (so we've got a control to compare to) - It's generally considered October through to May, with February being the high point and deaths around 30,000-50,000

So, some quick maths: that's about 8,333 deaths per month (for 50,000 dead) - divide that by 4, that's ~2,000 a week assuming an equal distribution across the months. But we know that it's a Bell curve, so it's more likely that in Dec/Jan/Feb (the traditional peaks) we are probably looking at closer to 4,000 dead per week due to Flu.

If we take the lower number of 30,000 for the Season - that's 5,000 per month, ~1,250 per week for an even distribution but again, bell curve - probably nearer 2,500 per week at the peak.

And does that Number look suspiciously similar to another number? One that you quoted? To say it's *totally* more deadly than the Flu?

I stand by both The Sciencetm and The Datatm That Omicron is the Sniffles.


Omicron is less severe but ‘not mild’
“We have increasing information that Omicron is less severe than Delta, but it is still a dangerous virus,” says the World Health Organization’s Dr Maria Van Kerkhove, in a recent video explaining the impact of the variant.

- Less Severe
- Still a dangerous Virus

So..... Like the Flu then?

[mashman]

Not sure many people will take scientific advice from a group who are literally standing in their own shit.

Not sure many people would ask them for scientific advice outwith a link to the information they're basing their decision on.

[R650R]

That's quite a narrative you've built for yourselves there.

Nobody forced me to get vaccinated, it was the sensible thing to do given the circumstances and the recommendations of the vast majority of health professionals.

As the circumstances have changed, the advice has changed. In another 6 months it will have changed again. Obviously.

People are getting sick of putting up with the restrictions, fair enough. Some have paid a terrible price for them, both financially and personally, and deserve sympathy and compensation. The government and public service can always do better, and should be more flexible and open to advice. The government might lose the next election over it. If they do we'll get a slightly different government that will largely do exactly the same thing (including making mistakes) and so on and so on.

Or the internet will sponsor a worldwide existential crisis that undermines confidence in existing public and political institutions to the point where civilisation collapses.

Because...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvMeT2GC14

Yes I agree with all that....

Your last paragraph is actually one of the more entertaining conspiracies out there. Something along the lines of the vaccines failing to do what they say or the lack of promises freedoms as happening here leading to a breakdown of society and civil war. Now that will be right up the elites alley as a good ol fashioned civil war and collapse of supply chains will cull the world population more than any deadly virus....
Then people will start understanding what they really meant about sustainability....

[FJRider]

The dust doesn't settle until the science of both parties is confirmed. That's what courts are for. Almost as if someone wants it that way for people to argue over :shifty:

So ... the science of (Both .. ??) groups haven't been proven yet .. ??

Let me know how your court case goes .. I await the results with baited breath. Until then ... your claims are unfounded.


All science is theoretically correct. Your argument is moot. :bleh:.

No ... there are just scientific theories ... some of which actually are proven ... or at least .. the most likely to work. Proving in a Court of Law ... that the (as yet unproven) theory you have ... might/should work ... would indeed be difficult to prove IN a court of law.

The "Moot Point" ... is the chance/ability of getting the case into a court of law.

But YOU know all that ... don't you.


By all means remove the possibility that the protestors could possibly be serving anyone other than themselves with regards to "Duty of Care"

Why would I do that .. ?? Do you think they ALL care about everybody else ... its all about Everybody else's interests ... and not just theirs ... ??

REALLY ... ??

CAN you really believe that ... :killingme

Or ... do they just care about the last unvaccinated 10% ... that's themselves ... right .. ??




you seem not to be able to let go of that one, but that ain't the hearts and thoughts of the people I know who went. They have seen the other science and look to have put more stock in it.

And you met everyone ?? ... and KNOW everyone ??... and if your answer is NO to those two questions ... that is the moot point ... and the point I'm making.


As for alternatives. They are proven, because they have been used in exceptionally large trials in a couple of provinces in India

This isn't India. OR ... the USA. Not even Italy or Japan. Compare the death rates in those countries ... and with the per head of the population being infected. Do you have those figures .. ??


There in no unproven there, just a shitload of misinformation from start to finish.

[QUOTE=mashman;1131197142]put it this way, if the Ivermectin therapies had been unsuccessful, anyone using it would have been jailed for killing/maiming/making people slightly woozy... and yet they're all still practicing and prescribing as they have deemed fit through experimentation using their decades of experience and training.

Medsafe and the Ministry of Health strongly recommend that ivermectin is not used to prevent or treat COVID-19.


v's

Reality does not match Testing.

Reality doesn't often feature in some peoples minds.

The "I WANT" group especially.

Did I mention the low death toll from Covid that NZ has ... compared to those countries you mentioned above .. ??


The protestors have more than just a point. They have science on their side. A science that no one will hear :killingme..... and you don;t think there's anything dodgy about that?

In case you haven't noticed ... they aren't the ones making those decisions. Why IS that ... ??

[FJRider]

It’s not of your own free will when the ramifications to not get it mean a potential loss of earnings of 1-1.5 million during final years of employment plus the ramifications very on other business projects and investments.

It’s a bit like the free choices the mafia gives you.

“ Look here Antonio I’m not forcing you to make decision buyback it’s like this. You can either contribute to the familia or not. And maybe Bobby might’ve or might not have an accident with a few gallons of petrol out front of your store. It’s your own choice Antonio we trust you make your own free choice..... heyaaa cook never some fucking pizza ok and think about it... but don’t take to long ok”

You've Edited it a bit ... since I first read it.

If it's 1-1.5 million YOU are missing out on ... I am sorry to hear that. But you will not be the only one. Or the last one to lose money ... :blank:

I've been on full pay since day one of Covid. Worked all the way through. Such is life in essential industries ... :drinknsin


Your Mafia bit ... is actually closer to reality than some of your other posts I've read ... :laugh:

[Stylo]

Unlikely. Whilst Viruses can mutate to be more deadly, the usual trend is that they get milder over time. And there's an easy thought experiment that backs this up: Who spreads more disease? The person that drops dead or the person that lives to spread it far and wide?



The devil is in the detail. Half of those are over 75 (something something Flu season something) and the other half are either unvaccinated (their choice) or have underlying health issues.

Remember what I said about Dying Of vs Dying with?

And let's just take a moment to remind ourselves what Flu season looks like in the US (so we've got a control to compare to) - It's generally considered October through to May, with February being the high point and deaths around 30,000-50,000

So, some quick maths: that's about 8,333 deaths per month (for 50,000 dead) - divide that by 4, that's ~2,000 a week assuming an equal distribution across the months. But we know that it's a Bell curve, so it's more likely that in Dec/Jan/Feb (the traditional peaks) we are probably looking at closer to 4,000 dead per week due to Flu.

If we take the lower number of 30,000 for the Season - that's 5,000 per month, ~1,250 per week for an even distribution but again, bell curve - probably nearer 2,500 per week at the peak.

And does that Number look suspiciously similar to another number? One that you quoted? To say it's *totally* more deadly than the Flu?

I stand by both The Sciencetm and The Datatm That Omicron is the Sniffles.



- Less Severe
- Still a dangerous Virus

So..... Like the Flu then?

Post your Factual scientific evidence to back your statement please. The 'Science' and the 'Data' are both sourced from Facebook.

Designed for people like you to believe them. Can't think for yourself ? Facebook, first call.

I don't have a lot of time for stupid people.

[FJRider]

Yep, And for the same reasons. That's the bit you are deliberately ignoring.

Yep ... the same STUPID reasons.


Both of those, however, want the right to choose. That's the bit you are deliberately ignoring.

90% of the population felt the need to get vaccinated (granted for some ... not their first choice) ... BUT ... because they knew some things weren't an option they could live and still work with.

Life isn't always about YOUR choices. Those that stuck their arm out made a choice. THEIR choice. Those that said NO to the jab have my respect. I don't agree with them though ... <_<

Reality can be a real bitch.


Who doesn't....

The one's that would replace them are the one's to fear.


I've seen these reports, I think the charitable interpretation of these claims would be 'Red Herring' and the uncharitable interpretation would be something akin to the burning of the Reichstag.

Was that burning ... Revenge OR Justice ... ??

Journalists seldom report the truth. Just the version as they see it. If they are paid to report ... who's version will they give .. ??

Who was paying those reporters in Berlin in 1945 ... ??


Dying Of or Dying With? Those are two very different scenarios.

Well they certainly didn't commit suicide.

Their deaths are listed as being Covid related deaths. Whats different ... apart from people that didn't need to die ... are listed as dieing from Covid related viruses.


The numbers Dying Of Omicron are equivalent to the numbers of people who die of the seasonal flu. Yes, it's a 'deadly' disease, so is the Flu - we don't have a national panic each time Flu season comes round.

Get your flu shots ... the fat useless fucks will be the first to die this coming winter ... the winter of discontent ... :killingme

[husaberg]

The dust doesn't settle until the science of both parties is confirmed. That's what courts are for. Almost as if someone wants it that way for people to argue over :shifty:

All science is theoretically correct. Your argument is moot. :bleh:. By all means remove the possibility that the protestors could possibly be serving anyone other than themselves with regards to "Duty of Care", you seem not to be able to let go of that one, but that ain't the hearts and thoughts of the people I know who went. They have seen the other science and look to have put more stock in it.

As for alternatives. They are proven, because they have been used in exceptionally large trials in a couple of provinces in India, also at a few practices in the US, some practices in Italy, Japan and likely far more these days given just ow successful its use has been. There in no unproven there, just a shitload of misinformation from start to finish. Put it this way, if the Ivermectin therapies had been unsuccessful, anyone using it would have been jailed for killing/maiming/making people slightly woozy... and yet they're all still practicing and prescribing as they have deemed fit through experimentation using their decades of experience and training.

v's

Reality does not match Testing.

The protestors have more than just a point. They have science on their side. A science that no one will hear :killingme..... and you don;t think there's anything dodgy about that?

Your post has zero credible scientific backing.
Willingly spreading false information about disease or cure should result in your expulsion from social media and a fine.




It’s for all the people too afraid to speak up in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.



You conspiracy Theorists, will accept any form of evidence as long as it conforms to your worldview, ie confirmation bias whilst at the same time requesting impossibly high standards of Evidence for anything that contradicts your theories.
Conspiracy theorists are much more likely to adopt a conspiratorial position on any given issue.
ie If there was an allegation made against a group, I would bet that you would pick the side that was against that group or institution regardless of the quality of the evidence nearly all of the time.

[mashman]

So ... the science of (Both .. ??) groups haven't been proven yet .. ??

But neither are unproven, they are both proven, that is the point. The court bit is required because some idiots are screaming for a mandate despite what has been proven to the contrary.

The vaccine is shit and does not mirror testing. Proven. Not the basis for mandate.
Ivermectin et al have been proven to do what the vaccine can't. Proven. Again, not the basis for mandate.

No court of law required outwith forcing mandate. The science has proven itself on both counts.

As for the rest, go play tdl with tdl.

[husaberg]

But neither are unproven, they are both proven, that is the point. The court bit is required because some idiots are screaming for a mandate despite what has been proven to the contrary.

The vaccine is shit and does not mirror testing. Proven. Not the basis for mandate.
Ivermectin et al have been proven to do what the vaccine can't. Proven. Again, not the basis for mandate.

No court of law required outwith forcing mandate. The science has proven itself on both counts.

As for the rest, go play tdl with tdl.

So where is your credible supporting data
One would think if it existed, you would post it....

[onearmedbandit]

https://www.reddit.com/link/sta7yo/video/rsxoadcnm1i81/player?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Aotearoa_Anarchism&utm_content=t3_sta7yo

[TheDemonLord]

Post your Factual scientific evidence to back your statement please. The 'Science' and the 'Data' are both sourced from Facebook.

Designed for people like you to believe them. Can't think for yourself ? Facebook, first call.

I don't have a lot of time for stupid people.

All the data was sourced from the CDC. I don't have a Facebook account.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season.htm

So, you want to try that again?

[TheDemonLord]

Yep ... the same STUPID reasons.

Clearly not stupid, since it's struck a chord. One might conjecture some sort of shared values, shared monarchy, shared ideals...


90% of the population felt the need to get vaccinated (granted for some ... not their first choice) ... BUT ... because they knew some things weren't an option they could live and still work with.

Life isn't always about YOUR choices. Those that stuck their arm out made a choice. THEIR choice. Those that said NO to the jab have my respect. I don't agree with them though ... <_<

Reality can be a real bitch.

So why the need for compulsion if most people were happy to get it?

If it's a Choice - the people that choose to and the people that choose not to are both satisfied. introduce any element of Compulsion and people are rightfully pissed off.


The one's that would replace them are the one's to fear.

I dunno, the American Revolution turned out alright: Constitution, limits on government power etc. etc.


Was that burning ... Revenge OR Justice ... ??

Journalists seldom report the truth. Just the version as they see it. If they are paid to report ... who's version will they give .. ??

Who was paying those reporters in Berlin in 1945 ... ??

I think in NZ at least it's the official approved version from the Beehive. Which makes it 50% useless.


Well they certainly didn't commit suicide.

Their deaths are listed as being Covid related deaths. Whats different ... apart from people that didn't need to die ... are listed as dieing from Covid related viruses.

Get your flu shots ... the fat useless fucks will be the first to die this coming winter ... the winter of discontent ... :killingme

I get mine free from Work most years. Most of those whether it was Covid or Flu were in the risk bracket. Sucks for them, one day (hopefully) it will be me in my dotage, either wishing it to pass me by or welcoming it like an old friend. That's life.

And as I stated previously - I've lost relatives who were old due to Flu, it sucks - but we didn't shut down an entire country so that they could have a bit longer and I have a sneaking suspicion they wouldn't have wanted to either.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.reddit.com/link/sta7yo/video/rsxoadcnm1i81/player?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Aotearoa_Anarchism&utm_content=t3_sta7yo

Absolutely brilliant.

I love a good Downfall Meme, however some parts of that were just masterful.

[Berries]

I am kind of on the fence with all this. If I didn't have a daughter with a condition that means she will likely suffer quite badly if and when she gets Covid I don't think I would have been jabbed, fuck some Politician telling me what to do. But I do so I did.

I do wish I was in Wellington though to join the protest. Did anyone see the chick in the hat and the tight jeans dancing this afternoon on the live stream? Well worth the admission fee and the new DMs.

[husaberg]

I do wish I was in Wellington though to join the protest. Did anyone see the chick in the hat and the tight jeans dancing this afternoon on the live stream? Well worth the admission fee and the new DMs.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEO8y0UHX9IL8xl5V7hnswVsoAQ7h45 AdJCveQ7iWMTO3hPHQksDX_-X6VjEbPg6XIHXA&usqp=CAU

[Stylo]

Clearly not stupid, since it's struck a chord. One might conjecture some sort of shared values, shared monarchy, shared ideals...



So why the need for compulsion if most people were happy to get it?

If it's a Choice - the people that choose to and the people that choose not to are both satisfied. introduce any element of Compulsion and people are rightfully pissed off.



I dunno, the American Revolution turned out alright: Constitution, limits on government power etc. etc.



I think in NZ at least it's the official approved version from the Beehive. Which makes it 50% useless.



I get mine free from Work most years. Most of those whether it was Covid or Flu were in the risk bracket. Sucks for them, one day (hopefully) it will be me in my dotage, either wishing it to pass me by or welcoming it like an old friend. That's life.

And as I stated previously - I've lost relatives who were old due to Flu, it sucks - but we didn't shut down an entire country so that they could have a bit longer and I have a sneaking suspicion they wouldn't have wanted to either.

No. You get the flu vaccine to protect your fellow New Zealanders. You selfish cunt. Good luck living in your own shit whether you're camping out with the losers in Parliament or not. The law will not change.

[R650R]

You've Edited it a bit ... since I first read it.

If it's 1-1.5 million YOU are missing out on ... I am sorry to hear that. But you will not be the only one. Or the last one to lose money ... :blank:

I've been on full pay since day one of Covid. Worked all the way through. Such is life in essential industries ... :drinknsin


Your Mafia bit ... is actually closer to reality than some of your other posts I've read ... :laugh:

For the record post was not edited by I did post similar in another thread and maybe articulated it better here. You may have missed but i was double vaxxed some time ago.... strictly a business decision and financial losses averted. Essential logistics too damn humans won’t stop eating....

Glad you enjoyed the mafia line..., channeling my inner joe Pesci lol

Btw back to topic it amuses me greatly that twice while watching news clips about the protests.....
They have been preceded by the GOVERNMENT spinsonered PROPOGANDA campaign Genless which totally GLAMOURISES protesting (it’s ok apparently if it’s about a scientific hypothesis)
“What will you be remembered for”......
Maybe someone will do an edit and put wgtn protest in mix lol
Priceless

[husaberg]

https://www.reddit.com/link/sta7yo/video/rsxoadcnm1i81/player?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=Aotearoa_Anarchism&utm_content=t3_sta7yo

https://preview.redd.it/zxm9xo6m75vy.jpg?auto=webp&a93f1277https://i.redd.it/7zg1j6uzo1371.jpg

https://i.redd.it/zxm9xo6m75vy.jpg

[F5 Dave]

I am kind of on the fence with all this. If I didn't have a daughter with a condition that means she will likely suffer quite badly if and when she gets Covid I don't think I would have been jabbed, fuck some Politician telling me what to do. But I do so I did.

I do wish I was in Wellington though to join the protest. Did anyone see the chick in the hat and the tight jeans dancing this afternoon on the live stream? Well worth the admission fee and the new DMs.


What has resistance to a politician have to do with a medical treatment? Is it really clouding your view that much?

[F5 Dave]

https://preview.redd.it/zxm9xo6m75vy.jpg?auto=webp&a93f1277https://i.redd.it/7zg1j6uzo1371.jpg

https://i.redd.it/zxm9xo6m75vy.jpg

You do have to say, they have put some effort into their signs. Makes most 2022 examples we see pretty piss poor by comparison.

[husaberg]

It’s for all the people too afraid to speak up in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.



You conspiracy Theorists, will accept any form of evidence as long as it conforms to your worldview, ie confirmation bias whilst at the same time requesting impossibly high standards of Evidence for anything that contradicts your theories.
Conspiracy theorists are much more likely to adopt a conspiratorial position on any given issue.
ie If there was an allegation made against a group, I would bet that you would pick the side that was against that group or institution regardless of the quality of the evidence nearly all of the time.

[TheDemonLord]

No. You get the flu vaccine to protect your fellow New Zealanders.

No.

If they are worried about getting the Flu, they can get the Flu jab. I can assure you, the only reason I get the Flu jab, is because I don't want to get the Flu. Not to protect anyone else, to protect Me. Afterall I am the one ultimately responsible for my health.


You selfish cunt.

Selfish? In what way? I want your freedoms returned to you. What you choose to do with them is your business. Get Jabbed/Don't get jabbed - it matters not to me. If I think there's a risk from a Virus and there's a vaccine that works, I'll protect myself - that way, I don't have to worry about what other people are doing.

If it's selfish to guard the individual (be it myself or you or anyone else) against the Tyranny of the masses, then sure - I'm selfish.


Good luck living in your own shit whether you're camping out with the losers in Parliament or not. The law will not change.

Such Vitriol. I can only presume that this is a manifestation of Butt-hurt after you asked me to post up my sources, only to find that it wasn't from facebook and was, in fact, from the CDC.

[Berries]

What has resistance to a politician have to do with a medical treatment? Is it really clouding your view that much?
Not at all, politicians don't cloud my judgement. I have never voted, I just get on with my life. I am not resistant to a specific politician either, I would probably tap JA after a big night at the Bristol.

As long as she got a round in. Obviously.

[Berries]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEO8y0UHX9IL8xl5V7hnswVsoAQ7h45 AdJCveQ7iWMTO3hPHQksDX_-X6VjEbPg6XIHXA&usqp=CAU

You can get vaccinated for that these days.

DAMHIK

[R650R]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-convoy-protest-govt-in-crisis-meeting-over-protest-police-increase-tow-capacitY

Hi ho ho what a debacle the response is turning into....

Winston’s comment is priceless

One of MPs has said a river of filth runs outside

Defence force worried about civil damages cases....

Now set to run three months....

[FJRider]

But neither are unproven, they are both proven, that is the point. The court bit is required because some idiots are screaming for a mandate despite what has been proven to the contrary.

Have you considered getting the vaccines you approve of ... by your own means ... ??? If it an officially approved vaccine used in other countries ... it will be recognized as such.


The vaccine is shit and does not mirror testing. Proven. Not the basis for mandate.
Ivermectin et al have been proven to do what the vaccine can't. Proven. Again, not the basis for mandate.

As above ... JOB DONE.


No court of law required outwith forcing mandate.

Outwith .. ???? :scratch:


The science has proven itself on both counts.

As (2) above ...


As for the rest, go play tdl with tdl.

He seems to prefer playing by (with .. ??) himself ...

[TheDemonLord]

He seems to prefer playing by (with .. ??) himself ...

Isn't it Ironic that both sides of a given debate seem to invoke me as the Great Opposition.

[mashman]

Have you considered getting the vaccines you approve of ... by your own means ... ??? If it an officially approved vaccine used in other countries ... it will be recognized as such.

He seems to prefer playing by (with .. ??) himself ...

The 'vaccine' you allude to would be Ivermectin et al applied according to the algorithm of treatment that Peter McCullough et al developed n response to people dying before their eyes. The treatment costs cents and is merely the 'off-label' use of a drug that has worked. That an algorithm was developed in August 2020 and still works no matter the variant. Hard to get, though not impossible, I'd rather it was recognised and so could be prescribed according to an algorithm that isn't overly easy to follow.

heh... tends to happen when one believes that one has gone as far as one can go in terms of what one is certain of.

[FJRider]

For the record post was not edited by I did post similar in another thread and maybe articulated it better here. You may have missed but i was double vaxxed some time ago.... strictly a business decision and financial losses averted. Essential logistics too damn humans won’t stop eating....

At the time ... I probably missed this one. If there was another one. But in the meantime ... I'll take your word for it.


Glad you enjoyed the mafia line..., channeling my inner joe Pesci lol

As I said ... reality ... in some places.


Btw back to topic it amuses me greatly that twice while watching news clips about the protests.....
They have been preceded by the GOVERNMENT spinsonered PROPOGANDA campaign Genless which totally GLAMOURISES protesting (it’s ok apparently if it’s about a scientific hypothesis)
“What will you be remembered for”......
Maybe someone will do an edit and put wgtn protest in mix lol
Priceless

I'm all for GOVERMENT spinsonered PROPOGANDA .. but you need spellcheck first. There are a few other words in that sentence that I can only guess what you mean.

So ... you were IN the protest in Wellington .. ?? or just wish you were .. ?? Hardly memorable if you weren't there.

[R650R]

At the time ... I probably missed this one. If there was another one. But in the meantime ... I'll take your word for it.



As I said ... reality ... in some places.



I'm all for GOVERMENT spinsonered PROPOGANDA .. but you need spellcheck first. There are a few other words in that sentence that I can only guess what you mean.

So ... you were IN the protest in Wellington .. ?? or just wish you were .. ?? Hardly memorable if you weren't there.

Cheers it’s a new word I’m submitting to Oxford for inclusion in next addition.

Spinsonered (noun), (( means of)) Delivery of contemporary post modern propoganda funded by govt depts or sympathetic non governmental organisations. Began occurring frequently early in 21stcentury and reached endemic levels during the beginning of the industrial-pharmaceutical revolution engineered by Gates foundation during the mass outbreak of C19 hysteria.

[Stylo]

Mallard's having fun. Don't like the guy but it seems like this a bit of a game for him....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/461730/protest-outside-parliament-speaker-trevor-mallard-says-no-dialogue-until-blockade-clears

[TheDemonLord]

Mallard's having fun. Don't like the guy but it seems like this a bit of a game for him....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/461730/protest-outside-parliament-speaker-trevor-mallard-says-no-dialogue-until-blockade-clears

Mallard is trying to look and act tough.

Hands up who is convinced?

In the meantime:

"The Honking will continue until Freedom is restored"

[R650R]

Mallard's having fun. Don't like the guy but it seems like this a bit of a game for him....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/461730/protest-outside-parliament-speaker-trevor-mallard-says-no-dialogue-until-blockade-clears

He’s an embarrassment to the nation. His behaviour is like a male Karen neighbour that puts anonymous notes in letterboxes about unmowed lawns or mowevgis lawns early on a Sunday morning because he doesn’t have balls to ask neighbours to turn stereo down

[R650R]

IÂ’ve just realised why Jacinda has deliberately lets this fiasco run out of control and why she looks so uncomfortable in interviews. Lying is never nice or easy for anyone.....
She is CREATING this PROBLEM so they can implement their SOLUTION....

You can see the current narrative focusing on a minority making silly extreme statements... but any protest have that normally the media glosses over it ....

So here she whatÂ’s going to happen in the upcoming false flag.
Police will arrest some mental defective in spectacular fashion in or near the protest. He may be a specialist project mockingbird type or maybe just a random ADHD afflicted protestor.
They will make out that what he/she/it was internet inspired or received help etc to plan what they were about to attempt.
Jacinda will evacuate to Christchurch and call up big tech to shut down the internet. It will be called the chch ReCall. Forums like this will be shutdown and only approved platforms like Facebook or CNN news etc will be allowed and you will only log in with a special electronic id.
You will have to scan a new app at every location you visit so police can track who extremists might have communicated with or been assisted by. If crazy uncle jimmy visited you then you might have to go to a reeducation camp invade you learnt any crazy ideas.

[R650R]

So ... you were IN the protest in Wellington .. ?? or just wish you were .. ?? Hardly memorable if you weren't there.

No it would be economic suicide in current business climate. Some of my neighbours might be going and they will get petrol vouchers if they do...,

Memorable it’s about the govt ad maybe you ain’t seen it, it’s their catch phrase coming home to roost

[husaberg]

No it would be economic suicide in current business climate. Some of my neighbours might be going and they will get petrol vouchers if they do...,

Memorable it’s about the govt ad maybe you ain’t seen it, it’s their catch phrase coming home to roost

Wouldnt economic suicide be being in a job bearly over minimum wage like yourself......
yet claiming you are some sort of protege

[Berries]

Tin foil must be on special at Countdown tonight.

[R650R]

The Fall of the Republic has begun.... never has nz political leadership ever gotten it so wrong....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127808790/parliament-protest-new-poll-shows-30-per-cent-of-kiwis-support-antimandate-protest

Really your prob looking at 40% support as people are conservative in polls where they think they are a minority/against etc...,,

My neighbours loading mattresses into utes and trailers st 10pm last night.....

And you can be the fluff news only printed that article because they’ve prob seen people in droves cancelling their subscription in protest..... go woke go broke

And they also front paged this doozie....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127791413/covid19-are-nzs-vaccine-mandates-justified-in-the-age-of-omicron

“According to the US CDC, anyone with an Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.

A Stuff analysis, which examined cases from late January, found the overall case rate for those who were at least double-dosed was now higher than for unvaccinated people.”

[sugilite]

T

A Stuff analysis, which examined cases from late January, found the overall case rate for those who were at least double-dosed was now higher than for unvaccinated people.”
Could that possibly be because 90+% of people are double vaxed? :laugh:

[pete376403]

No it would be economic suicide in current business climate. Some of my neighbours might be going and they will get petrol vouchers if they do...,
Are these the same gang member neighbours that you installed cameras to protect your property from?

[R650R]

Are these the same gang member neighbours that you installed cameras to protect your property from?

No they are down road a bit and had cameras before Jacinda moved them in “ to help those most in need”. Bit of I see them with placards they’ll get a voucher too.

[R650R]

Could that possibly be because 90+% of people are double vaxed? :laugh:

Yes I’ll give you that. It is quite likely that the vaxxed are moving more freely and subject to more exposure events this distorting stats. But then if the virus is as bad as it is and if the vax works as advertised then really the unvaxced should be higher percentages wise.....

This version doubles case numbers every three days so in seven weeks time we should have more accurate data with five million cases by then

[FJRider]

Cheers it’s a new word I’m submitting to Oxford for inclusion in next addition.

Spinsonered (noun), (( means of)) Delivery of contemporary post modern propoganda funded by govt depts or sympathetic non governmental organisations. Began occurring frequently early in 21stcentury and reached endemic levels during the beginning of the industrial-pharmaceutical revolution engineered by Gates foundation during the mass outbreak of C19 hysteria.

Great ... :yes: ... I love learning new words ... :innocent:

As long as somebody is making money out of all this ... that is all the reality that is needed.

Are YOU still making (some) money ... ??

[FJRider]

But neither are unproven, they are both proven, that is the point. The court bit is required because some idiots are screaming for a mandate despite what has been proven to the contrary.

If they are BOTH proven to work ... whats the problem .. ???


The vaccine is shit and does not mirror testing. Proven. Not the basis for mandate.

PROVEN ... AND THE BASIS FOR ITS USE.


Ivermectin et al have been proven to do what the vaccine can't. Proven. Again, not the basis for mandate.

Pharmac decides what medicines are funded by the New Zealand government. Complain to them.


No court of law required outwith forcing mandate. The science has proven itself on both counts.

As for the rest, go play tdl with tdl.

Again ... Pharmac decides what medicines are funded by the New Zealand government.

[FJRider]

Clearly not stupid, since it's struck a chord. One might conjecture some sort of shared values, shared monarchy, shared ideals...

Shared opinions ... just that some DEMAND it Their way.


So why the need for compulsion if most people were happy to get it?

Perhaps ... some want a different vaccine than what is being given. Those are the one's that know better than Pharmac.

Go figure.


If it's a Choice - the people that choose to and the people that choose not to are both satisfied. introduce any element of Compulsion and people are rightfully pissed off.

Those that choose not to ... Those are the one's that know better than Pharmac.



I dunno, the American Revolution turned out alright: Constitution, limits on government power etc. etc.

Then ... it progressed ... with varying degrees of success.

Trumps byline was ... Make America GREAT again.

THAT ... might be a small clue ... that things didn't work out that great after all.

Well in the eyes of many that voted (or agreed with) him into power anyway .. <_<


I think in NZ at least it's the official approved version from the Beehive. Which makes it 50% useless.

Have you given some thought that ... perhaps .... the version of history remembered from Berlin in 1945 ... was the "Official Approved Version" of the British and American/Allied Governments ... ???

Or were ALL the journalists of that time ... TOTALLY independent from ANY Government control on what they could (or COULDN'T) say .. ??

If YOU actually BELIEVE that ... you are actually thicker than I gave you credit for being.

It was merely the APPROVED version they could report.

Go figure.


I get mine free from Work most years. Most of those whether it was Covid or Flu were in the risk bracket. Sucks for them, one day (hopefully) it will be me in my dotage, either wishing it to pass me by or welcoming it like an old friend. That's life.

The last flu shot I got was about age 16. Nothing similar since. I'm (almost) 64. My working week is 56 hours (for many years .. I worked many more hours than that..

Some fat useless fuckers struggle with 40 hours ... (Go figure)

There were shots I got for things you really COULD die of ... if you caught them. Hazard of the job at the time. But I guess ... fat useless fucks need more help than everybody else ... to fight the flu.

Go figure.



And as I stated previously - I've lost relatives who were old due to Flu, it sucks - but we didn't shut down an entire country so that they could have a bit longer and I have a sneaking suspicion they wouldn't have wanted to either.

Bugger. But perhaps THIS NZ Government actually LEARNED from history. Not ALL Governments do. Count yourself lucky ... OURS DID.

Perhaps ... this time around ... YOU and MORE of your relatives ... just might live longer.

Go figure.

[FJRider]

Isn't it Ironic that both sides of a given debate seem to invoke me as the Great Opposition.


NOT true.


You're NOT that great.



nuff said.

[husaberg]

No they are down road a bit

For a guy that claimed to be making money hand over first as a Truck driver you sure live in a dodgy low rent area.......

[FJRider]

No it would be economic suicide in current business climate. Some of my neighbours might be going and they will get petrol vouchers if they do...

My difference is ... I never intended to go. A subtle difference some miss. None of MY neighbors did as far as I know. None I've spoken to have said they were. Too busy working.


Memorable it’s about the govt ad maybe you ain’t seen it, it’s their catch phrase coming home to roost

Memorable is when they achieve something ... actually GAIN something more than laughter and derision ... from the majority of the population.


History only remembers what has been (WAS) achieved.


What has been achieved there so far ... aside from the ruination of a nice lawn .. ??



Time will tell ... but a lot less than the desired ... is my bet.


It may be mentioned in NZ history in the future ... but for the wrong reasons in the eye's the protesters ... I bet.

[TheDemonLord]

NOT true.

You're NOT that great.

nuff said.

I'm not the one doing it, You, Mashman, Husa etc. are the ones doing it.

I'm just making the observation, Mainly because I find the irony hilarious.

[TheDemonLord]

Shared opinions ... just that some DEMAND it Their way.

Or they believe they have a Natural right to something and so have the moral authority to use force to Demand it.



Perhaps ... some want a different vaccine than what is being given. Those are the one's that know better than Pharmac.

Go figure.

Those that choose not to ... Those are the one's that know better than Pharmac.

I don't think the problem is the flavour being offered, I think the problem is being forced to drink the coolaid or be excluded from parts of society.


Then ... it progressed ... with varying degrees of success.

Trumps byline was ... Make America GREAT again.

THAT ... might be a small clue ... that things didn't work out that great after all.

Well in the eyes of many that voted (or agreed with) him into power anyway .. <_<

I dunno, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Montana - they all seem to have maintained individual rights and freedoms, despite a certain someone's best efforts.



Have you given some thought that ... perhaps .... the version of history remembered from Berlin in 1945 ... was the "Official Approved Version" of the British and American/Allied Governments ... ???

Or were ALL the journalists of that time ... TOTALLY independent from ANY Government control on what they could (or COULDN'T) say .. ??

If YOU actually BELIEVE that ... you are actually thicker than I gave you credit for being.

It was merely the APPROVED version they could report.

Go figure.

Totally independent? No, of course not. As transparently biased and partisan as the current Media? Definitely not. At least old-school Journos weren't afraid of pissing off The powers that Be in order to get a Scoop (Watergate ring a bell?)



The last flu shot I got was about age 16. Nothing similar since. I'm (almost) 64. My working week is 56 hours (for many years .. I worked many more hours than that..

Some fat useless fuckers struggle with 40 hours ... (Go figure)

There were shots I got for things you really COULD die of ... if you caught them. Hazard of the job at the time. But I guess ... fat useless fucks need more help than everybody else ... to fight the flu.

Go figure.

I've got small kids who are walking Biological weapons, so yeah - I get my Flu jab, not because I'm worried about dying, it's that I don't want to deal with a week off work in bed feeling like Arse.


Bugger. But perhaps THIS NZ Government actually LEARNED from history. Not ALL Governments do. Count yourself lucky ... OURS DID.

Perhaps ... this time around ... YOU and MORE of your relatives ... just might live longer.

Go figure.

Sounds like a Gilded cage.

No, Thank you.

I'd prefer a dangerous freedom over a safe prison. Clearly this Government hasn't learned from history.

[FJRider]

I'm not the one doing it, You, Mashman, Husa etc. are the ones doing it.

I'm just making the observation, Mainly because I find the irony hilarious.

For the record ... the observation I made was ... that you were not that great an opposition.

A little repetitive though.

[mashman]

If they are BOTH proven to work ... whats the problem .. ???

Pharmac decides what medicines are funded by the New Zealand government.

One is proven to work. The vaccine/jab has proven itself not to work so much.

Someone might wanna protest to get the government to tell the government that there's another way.

[husaberg]

But neither are unproven, they are both proven, that is the point. The court bit is required because some idiots are screaming for a mandate despite what has been proven to the contrary.

The vaccine is shit and does not mirror testing. Proven. Not the basis for mandate.
Ivermectin et al have been proven to do what the vaccine can't. Proven. Again, not the basis for mandate.
l.
Again put up or shut up where is your credible evidence to support you claims

The 'vaccine' you allude to would be Ivermectin et al applied according to the algorithm of treatment that Peter McCullough et al developed n response to people dying before their eyes. The treatment costs cents and is merely the 'off-label' use of a drug that has worked. That an algorithm was developed in August 2020 and still works no matter the variant. Hard to get, though not impossible, I'd rather it was recognised and so could be prescribed according to an algorithm that isn't overly easy to follow.

heh... tends to happen when one believes that one has gone as far as one can go in terms of what one is certain of.
350699

Drug shows ‘no benefit’ against Covid
The core hydroxychloroquine claim of the CMN is that it is an effective treatment in the very earliest stages of infection when used with Zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C and a cocktail of other drugs.
The key reference providing support to this assertion is this article, the lead author of which is Dr Peter McCullough, vice-chief of internal medicine at Baylor University Medical Centre in Dallas, Texas. Zelenko is one of his 56 co-authors.
The article should be taken seriously, says Mathieson, because it is “peer reviewed”. The evidence is “now virtually beyond dispute,” he says.
But a check of the credentials of the journal in which it appeared – Reviews in Cardiovascular Medicine – reveals that McCullough himself is the editor-in-chief of the journal in which he has published.
On top of that, the peer review process was astonishingly quick. The paper was submitted on 28 November, accepted after revisions on 15 December and published just a fortnight later.
Baylor Scott and White Health, which runs the medical centre where McCullough holds his position, told me that the article “does not reflect the views of Baylor Scott and White Health”.


https://factcheck.afp.com/us-cardiologist-makes-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccination
https://www.examiner-enterprise.com/story/news/2021/10/06/doctor-fired-baylor-spreading-covid-19-misinformation-finds-supportive-crowd-bartlesville/5995698001/

https://factcheck.afp.com/http%253A%252F%252Fdoc.afp.com%252F9QW7UP-1

Notice you were posting these same untruths in Sep you really are a lowlife Norman

Um, that "Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) " outfit you cite:

AAPS is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative,[5][12] and its positions are fringe and commonly contradict with existing federal health policy.[13] It is opposed to the Affordable Care Act and other forms of universal health insurance

AAPS opposes abortion and over-the-counter access to emergency contraception.[14] The group claims there is a link between abortion and breast cancer

The AAPS opposes gun control and does not recognize handgun violence as a public health problem. Instead, the AAPS says that handguns save lives

In 2007, AAPS assisted in the appeal against the conviction of Virginia internist William Hurwitz, who was sentenced to 25 years in federal prison for prescribing excessive quantities of narcotic drugs after 16 former patients testified against him.[41] Hurwitz was granted a retrial in 2006, and his 25-year prison sentence was reduced to 4 years and 9 months.[42]

In July 2019, AAPS co-signed a letter to the Surgeon General of the United States Jerome Adams with the anti-LGBT group American College of Pediatricians, the Catholic Medical Association, and the pro conversion therapy group the Alliance for Therapeutic Choice and Scientific Integrity

Leading up to the 2008 presidential election, AAPS published an article claiming that then-candidate Barack Obama was captivating his audiences through hypnosis.

In September 2009, St. Petersburg neurosurgeon and future president of the Florida AAPS David McKalip received significant public criticism for emailing a falsified photo showing President Barack Obama as a witch doctor with an exotic headdress, loin cloth, and bones in his nose

In June 2020, AAPS filed a lawsuit against the Food and Drug Administration to "end its arbitrary interference with the use of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ)."[52][53] In April 2020, the FDA advised that hydroxychloroquine had "not been show to be safe and effective for treating or preventing COVID-19

AAPS has claimed that computers and the digitization of medical records provides an opportunity for the government to acquire massive amounts of private data on American citizens.

In a 2005 article, Madeleine Cosman argued that illegal immigrants were carriers of disease, and that immigrants and "anchor babies" were launching a "stealthy assault on [American] medicine.

In 2004, AAPS filed a brief on behalf of conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh in Florida's Fourth District Court of Appeal, opposing the seizure of his medical files in an investigation of drug charges for Limbaugh's alleged misuse of prescription drugs.

Philip Morris executives worked with AAPS executive director Jane Orient to help oppose growing support for indoor smoking bans in the early 2000s

The association's Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JP&S) was previously named the Medical Sentinel from 1996 to 2003. It is not listed in academic literature databases such as MEDLINE, PubMed, or the Web of Science. The quality and scientific validity of articles published in the journal have been criticized by medical experts, and some of the viewpoints advocated by AAPS are rejected by other scientists and medical groups.[69] The U.S. National Library of Medicine declined repeated requests from AAPS to index the journal, citing unspecified concerns

There is more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons but to refer to them as a fringe lunatic group is probably giving them a bit much credence.


And that has what to do with the fact that that is where the guide can be found?... you know, the one discussing the use of Ivermectin by those who have successfully used the drugs to treat Covid?

Shooting the messenger only works if the messenger is saying something that hasn't been proven to work, or in this day and age, something that can be twisted to suit the purpose of allowing the messenger to be effectively shot without anyone really noticing... you know, like posting a critique of a group of medical professionals v's a list of their personal preferences in order to deny them their medical status. And they're called beyond lunatic fringe by whom? The fucking pathetic?




The investigation into Ivermectin might have a bit more credibility if it wasn't published in a journal already well known for this :
The quality and scientific validity of articles published in the journal have been criticized by medical experts, and some of the viewpoints advocated by AAPS are rejected by other scientists and medical groups.

[FJRider]

Or they believe they have a Natural right to something and so have the moral authority to use force to Demand it.

What you believe gives you NO RIGHT ... and ... NO "Moral Authority" to use force or make demands. The very thing you abhor with the churches ... :killingme


I don't think the problem is the flavour being offered, I think the problem is being forced to drink the coolaid or be excluded from parts of society.

Don't take it then. Oh wait ... YOU DID.


I dunno, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Montana - they all seem to have maintained individual rights and freedoms, despite a certain someone's best efforts.

Three states ... in a country of what ... 50 states .. ?? I'm not sure ... I never delved into US history.


Totally independent? No, of course not. As transparently biased and partisan as the current Media? Definitely not. At least old-school Journos weren't afraid of pissing off The powers that Be in order to get a Scoop (Watergate ring a bell?)

As I've already said ... what you choose to believe is your choice. You'll usually be wrong though.

The "Reporting" was usually of similar style to the Nazi version. ie: This is what you will report.


I've got small kids who are walking Biological weapons, so yeah - I get my Flu jab, not because I'm worried about dying, it's that I don't want to deal with a week off work in bed feeling like Arse.

Almost all the sick days I took ... was because I broke something ... :pinch:


Sounds like a Gilded cage.

No, Thank you.

I'd prefer a dangerous freedom over a safe prison. Clearly this Government hasn't learned from history.

It's a free country ... in most respects ... :innocent:

[FJRider]

One is proven to work. The vaccine/jab has proven itself not to work so much.

Depends on what you define as .. working. Have you got Covid yet ... ?? Did your jab not work .. ??


Someone might wanna protest to get the government to tell the government that there's another way.

It's a free country. BUT ... Will that get your desired result ... ???

[Stylo]

Again put up or shut up where is your credible evidence to support you claims

True. I'm waiting for evidence too. This is like Trump promising to furnish his tax returns 100 times when everbody know he wouldn't because he's full of shit. He never did in the end.

I had some empathy for the Protesters initially and I could understand their point of with a degree of understanding of their plight. But .

I've had enough of these guys now. Jokes over and you're pissing everyone off now. It's not all about you. No thought ever given to the fucking disruption you've caused and the kids you've made cry and the Business people who've lost money and everyone else. The gutless Protesters don't even have a clear mandate or even someone with the balls to stand up. Stop shitting on the lawns and get someone to make a call.

Behave like human beings, and stop squatting down and shitting on the fucking lawns. Filthy bastards.

[TheDemonLord]

For the record ... the observation I made was ... that you were not that great an opposition.

And when both sides think the other is poor opposition and invoke me

They can't both be right...

But they can both be wrong...

As I said, I enjoy the Irony.


What you believe gives you NO RIGHT ... and ... NO "Moral Authority" to use force or make demands. The very thing you abhor with the churches ... :killingme

Then you can't say that Slavery was wrong and that it was Right and Moral to use Force to Demand the entire world stop it.

But I can, and I can do so without being a hypocrite. Since the same rights and morals I hold for myself apply to everyone else.


Don't take it then. Oh wait ... YOU DID.

Take it, don't take it - either way it's my choice and no compulsion either way would have changed my decision. The compulsion is the immoral part


Three states ... in a country of what ... 50 states .. ?? I'm not sure ... I never delved into US history.

That was off the top of my head.


As I've already said ... what you choose to believe is your choice. You'll usually be wrong though.

And yet, getting more and more right with each passing day ;)


The "Reporting" was usually of similar style to the Nazi version. ie: This is what you will report.

Specific to Wartime matters, agreed, elsewhere - the Press had a lot more leeway.



It's a free country ... in most respects ... :innocent:

Most countries are, it's the areas where it isn't free that Matters.

[TheDemonLord]

No thought given to the fucking disruption you've caused and the kids you've made cry and the Business people who've lost money and everyone else.

I completely agree, that's why what the Government did was wrong ;)

[pritch]

Could that possibly be because 90+% of people are double vaxed? :laugh:

Simple. Still, too dificult for some.

[Stylo]

I completely agree, that's why what the Government did was wrong ;)

That went straight over your head. You fucking idiot.

Cover up your turds mate. After you've finished your squatting. You filthy individual. Off to wash my hands and brush my teeth,

[Stylo]

Again put up or shut up where is your credible evidence to support you claims

True. I'm waiting for evidence too. This is like Trump promising to furnish his tax returns 100 times when everbody know he wouldn't because he's full of shit. He never did in the end.

I had some empathy for the Protesters initially and I could understand their point of with a degree of understanding of their plight. But .

I've had enough of these guys now. Jokes over and you're pissing everyone off now. It's not all about you. No thought given to the fucking disruption you've caused and the kids you've made cry and the Business people who've lost money and everyone else. The gutless Protesters don't even have a clear mandate or even someone with the balls to stand up. Stop shitting on the lawns and get someone to make a call. They don't give a shit.

Behave like human beings, and stop shitting on the fucking lawns.

[husaberg]

True. I'm waiting for evidence too. This is like Trump promising to furnish his tax returns 100 times when everbody know he wouldn't because he's full of shit. He never did in the end.

I had some empathy for the Protesters initially and I could understand their point of with a degree of understanding of their plight. But .

I've had enough of these guys now. Jokes over and you're pissing everyone off now. It's not all about you. No thought given to the fucking disruption you've caused and the kids you've made cry and the Business people who've lost money and everyone else. The gutless Protesters don't even have a clear mandate or even someone with the balls to stand up. Stop shitting on the lawns and get someone to make a call. They don't give a shit.

Behave like human beings, and stop shitting on the fucking lawns.


Trumps spoutings must be extra tasty as trump supporters line up to swallow

[jellywrestler]

I've had enough of these guys now. Jokes over and you're pissing everyone off now. It's not all about you. No thought ever given to the fucking disruption you've caused and the kids you've made cry and the Business people who've lost money and everyone else. The gutless Protesters don't even have a clear mandate or even someone with the balls to stand up. Stop shitting on the lawns and get someone to make a call.

Behave like human beings, and stop squatting down and shitting on the fucking lawns. Filthy bastards.

I think you'll find the sanitation has changed substantially since the early days. A number of those that were too radical have been sent away too. I bet if you sat ten people down, any ten, and quizzed them properly they most wouldn't have a clear understanding of a lot of the ins and outs of things they say they are standing up for. I had a mate here on wed night whose proud he's an ant vaxxer, about 60 years old, He's not at all, he just hates the press and doesn't like the government, I'm not questioning his belief, just what he thinks he is.

[TheDemonLord]

That went straight over your head. You fucking idiot.

Or, I'm pointing out the irony that the complaints you level at the Protestors are exactly the same complaints leveled against the Government.

The only difference is that the Protest only affects part of Wellington, whereas the Government affects all of NZ (and therefore has done vastly more damage than anything the Protestors have done thus far).




And considering you've posted the exact same post twice, I'd be really careful about calling others 'Idiot'

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/189414-Beehive-occupation?p=1131197313#post1131197313

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/189414-Beehive-occupation?p=1131197319#post1131197319

Oof ;)

[Stylo]

Trumps spoutings must be extra tasty as trump supporters line up to swallow

And a few on this thread would line up to have a bit of tubular Donald in their mouth. We all know who they are. Good call

[mashman]

Depends on what you define as .. working. Have you got Covid yet ... ?? Did your jab not work .. ??

It's a free country. BUT ... Will that get your desired result ... ???

Working, as in, doing what it was sold to do according to the testing. I once had a coronavirus for about 10 months. Pretty debilitating it was too. My sisters and sister in laws jabs didn't work, and my sister had a couple of uncomfortable weeks with Delta. Would it have been worse if she had have been unvaccinated? Who knows, because the results didn't match testing for the jab ;)

I hope that the choice is at least allowed to appear on the menu for professionals to administer. That it's not up for debate concerns me somewhat and somewhat sees my hope languishing beneath a boner chilling shower.

[Stylo]

[QUOTE=TheDemonLord;1131197322]Or, I'm pointing out the irony that the complaints you level at the Protestors are exactly the same complaints leveled against the Government.

The only difference is that the Protest only affects part of Wellington, whereas the Government affects all of NZ (and therefore has done vastly more damage than anything the Protestors have done thus far).

Your protest affects all of New Zealand by default. Being on Parliament grounds my first dissappointment is Police haven't taken a harder line about getting rid of these fucking idiots.

Otherwise they'll continue laying their foul piles of shit on the lawn. must be Ok with you, I don't like it.

I'm a bit more house trained than you are, each to their own I guess.

[TheDemonLord]

Read what you just posted, Not quite sure what members of Parliament were shitting on the lawn like the disgusting people you promote do every day. You've implied that they do. I'm sure they don't.

Read which part of your comment I specifically cut out and quoted.

You'll note there's no mention of shitting in any Lawns in that bit.

I'll refresh you memory:

- Disruption (Government definitely caused a lot of that
- Making Kids cry (School Mask Mandates and the stunting of language and emotional development due to mask wearing by adults)
- Businesses who've lost money and everything.

Those are definitely all things that the Government have done and in far greater amounts than anything the Protestors have done.


Your protest affects all of New Zealand by default. Being on Parliament grounds my first dissappointment is Police haven't taken a harder line about getting rid of these fucking idiots.

Otherwise they'll continue laying their foul piles of shit on the lawn. Must be Ok with you, I don't like it.

Honestly, shit on the lawns is one of the least objectionable things to come out of the Beehive in recent times - but regardless - here's the ultimate question:

Are you okay with Mandates? And to be clear we mean forcing one group to do something they don't want to do on pain of a Fine or being excluded from areas/services?

If the answer is No, then you should write to your MP, tell them you don't like what the protestors are doing but you think that the Mandates are wrong and they should get rid of them in order to get the Protestors to go away.

If the answer is Yes, that you're fine with one group using force against another - then you've got no leg to stand on to complain about what the Protestors are doing.

So which is it?

[FJRider]

Working, as in, doing what it was sold to do according to the testing. I once had a coronavirus for about 10 months. Pretty debilitating it was too. My sisters and sister in laws jabs didn't work, and my sister had a couple of uncomfortable weeks with Delta. Would it have been worse if she had have been unvaccinated? Who knows, because the results didn't match testing for the jab ;)


Or ... the virus affects different people ... differently. I am glad you survived.

That you DID survive could mean it did work. It was supposed to be a killer virus after all.

Having said that though ... most of those that died from the virus had underlying medical conditions ... that were actual the cause of the death. Conditions ... some didn't know they had.


I hope that the choice is at least allowed to appear on the menu for professionals to administer. That it's not up for debate concerns me somewhat and somewhat sees my hope languishing beneath a boner chilling shower.

The protest isn't over yet. SO ... Don't give up yet.

What have you got to lose .. ??

[FJRider]

But they can both be wrong...

As I said, I enjoy the Irony.

Maybe ... And ... I could be right.


Then you can't say that Slavery was wrong and that it was Right and Moral to use Force to Demand the entire world stop it.

It was allowed in law. So it could be argued it WAS right ... at the time. At least legal. As was Homosexuality. Times and attitudes change.

Regarding the vaccine policy ... they haven't changed yet. So keep trying. You have that right.

... Go figure.


But I can, and I can do so without being a hypocrite. Since the same rights and morals I hold for myself apply to everyone else.

YOU can't speak for me ... and tell me what my rights and morals are ... or should be.

YOUR "Rights and Morals" are yours ... you can't force them ... on me. Especially the one's laid down IN LAW.


Take it, don't take it - either way it's my choice and no compulsion either way would have changed my decision. The compulsion is the immoral part

Your compulsion to argue is immoral ... ?? I might agree ...


That was off the top of my head.

I knew there was a bit missing off your head.


And yet, getting more and more right with each passing day ;)

So ... what was proven right ... that you've argued for ... lately ... ??


Specific to Wartime matters, agreed, elsewhere - the Press had a lot more leeway.

Downtown Berlin wasn't "Elsewhere" ...

And some journalists were sued on a regular basis. Some journalists that were in Berlin in 1945 ... were jailed for not following policy.

Good luck finding stuff they wrote though.

Free speech isn't all it's cracked up to be.


Most countries are, it's the areas where it isn't free that Matters.

As above ... Free speech isn't all it's cracked up to be. You can STILL be jailed ... for saying/writing things that can be regarded as offensive.

[Stylo]

Read which part of your comment I specifically cut out and quoted.

You'll note there's no mention of shitting in any Lawns in that bit.

I'll refresh you memory:

- Disruption (Government definitely caused a lot of that
- Making Kids cry (School Mask Mandates and the stunting of language and emotional development due to mask wearing by adults)
- Businesses who've lost money and everything.

Those are definitely all things that the Government have done and in far greater amounts than anything the Protestors have done.



Honestly, shit on the lawns is one of the least objectionable things to come out of the Beehive in recent times - but regardless - here's the ultimate question:

Are you okay with Mandates? And to be clear we mean forcing one group to do something they don't want to do on pain of a Fine or being excluded from areas/services?

If the answer is No, then you should write to your MP, tell them you don't like what the protestors are doing but you think that the Mandates are wrong and they should get rid of them in order to get the Protestors to go away.

If the answer is Yes, that you're fine with one group using force against another - then you've got no leg to stand on to complain about what the Protestors are doing.

So which is it?

Here's my 5 cents.

If you don't like the 'mandate' . ignore it and do what you think is best . Join the protests. ignore the people that have been displaced and the kids that are too scared to go to school now.

i don't do idiots lightly. Difficult to argue with a clever person. To argue with someone stupid is impossible. Give me a fucking break.

[Berries]

To show a bit of solidarity I just shat on my neighbours lawn.


I felt like Citizen Smith.

[mashman]

Or ... the virus affects different people ... differently. I am glad you survived.

That you DID survive could mean it did work. It was supposed to be a killer virus after all.

Having said that though ... most of those that died from the virus had underlying medical conditions ... that were actual the cause of the death. Conditions ... some didn't know they had.

The protest isn't over yet. SO ... Don't give up yet.

What have you got to lose .. ??

I have mixed feelings about how the whole debacle turned out, but hey, there was no pandemic at the time. Indeed, it kills some people and gives others a mild headache whether they have underlying conditions or not. It's almost as though those who die have compromised immune systems and those who don't, don't, irrespective of underlying condition. Quick, stab everyone.

I'm not too fussed at what I have to lose... but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid. Kind of concerning to be fair. Some people are very much in the position of livelihood or health. They have everything to lose. Fortunately they've got a minority fighting for them since the majority will drop them like a sack of shit for not fucking their health up further and getting the booster.

[Kickaha]

but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid.

I wonder why you've not met many people who've had covid, must be a reason for that somewhere

[F5 Dave]

He or they are making shit up. Of non trolls, who has actually met someone injured by vaccine? I mean aside from a sore arm for a day?

Exactly.

[TheDemonLord]

ignore the people that have been displaced and the kids that are too scared to go to school now.

See my previous point about the scale of what the Government has done vs the scale of what the protestors have done. And yes, people have lost jobs/businesses/been displaced, Kids have been scarred of 'The deadly virus'.

And on a side note - last I checked, it was a University Campus that was impacted by the Protests. Not exactly Kids (although... I'll hear the argument about infantile Uni Students...)

Tell you what, since I'm a charitable type of chap, here's the deal: When the protestors have inconvenienced Wellington for as long as the Government had the country in Lockdown, then I'll agree that it's time for the protestors to move on.


i don't do idiots lightly. Difficult to argue with a clever person. To argue with someone stupid is impossible. Give me a fucking break.

That doesn't answer the question - and neither did your first retort:

Do you agree with using force to compel others to your will? If you don't, then as much as you may dislike the protestors, write to your local MP. I wrote to mine and Saint Seymour went and talked to them.

If you think that using force to compel others is fine, then you've got no moral basis for being upset at the protestors.

[TheDemonLord]

He or they are making shit up. Of non trolls, who has actually met someone injured by vaccine? I mean aside from a sore arm for a day?

Exactly.

Regardless of whether we personally know someone, all Vaccines have side-effects. Some of which can be serious, to the point of Death.

We know this, we should be honest about this fact. The above kind of rhetoric is fundamentally dishonest.

Granted, the rate is very low, but to dismiss someone as making shit up for something we know that can and does happen isn't right.

[pritch]

but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid.

Very little of what you write seems real. That though is competely unbelievable. Unless you only know a couple of people.

Almost everybody I know is vaccinated. Three people I know locally are anti, and one in the far north. Nobody I know has a had a reaction to the vaccine much less an "injury".

[TheDemonLord]

Maybe ... And ... I could be right.

Both of you say the same thing and both of you present the same evidence for being right.

Occams razor suggests you're both wrong.


It was allowed in law. So it could be argued it WAS right ... at the time. At least legal. As was Homosexuality. Times and attitudes change.

Regarding the vaccine policy ... they haven't changed yet. So keep trying. You have that right.

YOU can't speak for me ... and tell me what my rights and morals are ... or should be.

YOUR "Rights and Morals" are yours ... you can't force them ... on me. Especially the one's laid down IN LAW.

So, as a hypothetical then, if someone captured you and took you to a country where Slavery was legal and forced you to work as a Slave - that would be Right? Especially if their Rights and Morals said it was fine?

We both know that you would think that an injustice was being done to you. The reason you think that is because you (along with just about everyone else on the planet) has a sense of Bodily Autonomy.

From that ethic, comes the condemnation of any medical intervention, no matter how safe or how noble, if it violates a persons consent. It doesn't matter if it's injecting a vaccine or drinking a glass of Water - the Principle is the same.

So which is - would it be fine for you to be a Slave or do you want to admit that there's a moral and ethical underpinning that says this is wrong on an absolute level.


Your compulsion to argue is immoral ... ?? I might agree ...

Nope, because my arguments stop before your ears/eyes begin ;)


I knew there was a bit missing off your head.

Au Contraire, it's full of long flowing blond locks.


So ... what was proven right ... that you've argued for ... lately ... ??

The Severity of Covid, especially Omicron, the efficacy of Lockdowns, the immorality of Mandates, the fact that this is one big over-reaction and we are going to paying for it (not just financially) for many years, That Jacinda is a little authoritarian wannabe socialist dictator who doesn't give a flying fuck about individual rights, liberties and freedoms.


Downtown Berlin wasn't "Elsewhere" ...

And some journalists were sued on a regular basis. Some journalists that were in Berlin in 1945 ... were jailed for not following policy.

Good luck finding stuff they wrote though.

Free speech isn't all it's cracked up to be.

As above ... Free speech isn't all it's cracked up to be. You can STILL be jailed ... for saying/writing things that can be regarded as offensive.

If they were Jailed, then that shows my point - traditionally Journalism wasn't solely repeating the Government line. The last great bit of investigative journalism IMO is/was Andrew Norfolks work in 2011 on the Rotherham scandal.

[nerrrd]

How far out can they call a snap election and would that be enough to satisfy these people?

[mashman]

I wonder why you've not met many people who've had covid, must be a reason for that somewhere

lol... nice observation. I Am including those I know from overseas. Those I know directly. Those very very very few I know directly. Yes, there are very few of them, which makes the whole thing even more silly. 1 dead within 48hrs. 3 family members who've had it, 2 jabbed, 1 jabbed had it far worse than the other 2. In NZ, 1 with pericarditis after both jabs (still going for the booster so as to keep job they love), 1 double jabbed living and working through debilitating episodes of breathlessness and fatigue (not having the booster and kissing a job they love goodbye). I know the majority of people I socialise with are jabbed, ok, and highly unlikely to have Covid at the moment. 1 of my daughters is considering the booster v job thing (the booster will inevitably win) despite a couple of stories she's heard in her circles. Obviously, as you point out, not coronavirus related.

[mashman]

Very little of what you write seems real. That though is competely unbelievable. Unless you only know a couple of people.

Almost everybody I know is vaccinated. Three people I know locally are anti, and one in the far north. Nobody I know has a had a reaction to the vaccine much less an "injury".

:killingme... Ahhhh, so you're the keeper of my reality. Thanks for finally showing up and telling me that the suffering isn't real... simply so that you can live with the bitter and fucked up reveling in the misery of others that you have displayed to date, whilst pretending that you're a good man. Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

[jellywrestler]

Very little of what you write seems real. That though is competely unbelievable. Unless you only know a couple of people.

Almost everybody I know is vaccinated. Three people I know locally are anti, and one in the far north. Nobody I know has a had a reaction to the vaccine much less an "injury".
I was pretty flyblown for a couple of days after my second, in bed for 1 out of every two hours, i can only imagine what it would be like if i got the proper thing, my body was using it's energy to fight it the right way, it was working and working well. don't regret it a minute and i thank my mother for her taking me to get vaccines when i was young. I'm 59 and about to get the shingles vaccine as i sure as shit don't want that. how do all these people get on down at parliament when they eat KFC from a secret recipe I wonder?

[jellywrestler]

How far out can they call a snap election and would that be enough to satisfy these people?

and you think the other side is a knight in shining armour?

[pete376403]

On Friday, Police Commissioner Andrew Coster announced the Police would not pursue any enforcement action against protestors despite the protest site growing by the day.
He also backtracked on an earlier pledge to start towing vehicles from occupied streets around Parliament, saying that would only escalate tensions.

"We needed to explore the option of that and test what the reaction would be. That approach would have been provocative and unhelpful."

Coster instead said a traffic management plan, coupled with de-escalation tactics, would be the police focus."

AKA "Peace in our time" - look how well that worked last time (a declaration made by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in his 30 September 1938 remarks in London concerning the Munich Agreement and the subsequent Anglo-German Declaration.). Ohh, have I invoked Godwins?

[R650R]

On Friday, Police Commissioner Andrew Coster announced the Police would not pursue any enforcement action against protestors despite the protest site growing by the day.
He also backtracked on an earlier pledge to start towing vehicles from occupied streets around Parliament, saying that would only escalate tensions.

"We needed to explore the option of that and test what the reaction would be. That approach would have been provocative and unhelpful."

Coster instead said a traffic management plan, coupled with de-escalation tactics, would be the police focus."

AKA "Peace in our time" - look how well that worked last time (a declaration made by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in his 30 September 1938 remarks in London concerning the Munich Agreement and the subsequent Anglo-German Declaration.). Ohh, have I invoked Godwins?

Jacinda got him on a tight leash....

Seriously though it’s a smart choice and inline with modern nz tactics... what have we got going on here....?
A lot of people have gathered in one place in a kinda festival like atmosphere.
A small minority are saying and doing this some people don’t like.
A small minority may have had altercations or unpleasant interactions with some members of the public.
So absent any serious credible ongoing threat to public there is nothing that warrants instant police intervention given their normal workload of wife beaters and car crashes etc....

No different to a big cricket match and a few drunken bozos being dicks on way home. It doesn’t make all cricket fans criminals.

To do anything they will need a complainant that can identify an offender and provide evidence.
You can’t tow a car with a person inside it and the circumstances do not warrant physical removal of someone just to tow a car.
The general public is widely aware of what’s happening and can avoid the area. So really outside a couple idiots providing good sound bites to media nothing is going on that warrants police resources.

[TheDemonLord]

Ohh, have I invoked Godwins?

Nah, you're fine, I think I did it pages ago...

[F5 Dave]

I was pretty flyblown for a couple of days after my second, in bed for 1 out of every two hours, i can only imagine what it would be like if i got the proper thing, my body was using it's energy to fight it the right way, it was working and working well. don't regret it a minute and i thank my mother for her taking me to get vaccines when i was young. I'm 59 and about to get the shingles vaccine as i sure as shit don't want that. how do all these people get on down at parliament when they eat KFC from a secret recipe I wonder?
Indeed you don't, wife's friend had shingles, apparently worse than not pleasant. I looked into getting jab for it a while back, but too young ok now, then C19 hit and figured they had enough on thier hands pricking people's arms.
Back on radar soon.

[FJRider]

It's almost as though those who die have compromised immune systems and those who don't, don't, irrespective of underlying condition.

I thought I said that ... :rolleyes:


... but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid.

Injured .. ?? Did the needle hurt .. :lol: .. and leave a hole in their skin :eek:

I had NO issues ... and I have NO concerns.

Go figure.


Some people are very much in the position of livelihood or health. They have everything to lose.

Get the jab ... keep your job. Too easy.


A personal choice. Life is FULL of them.



Fortunately they've got a minority fighting for them since the majority will drop them like a sack of shit for not fucking their health up further and getting the booster.

I'm 64 next month. I work a 56 hour week. There is nothing wrong with my heath. And WITH ... Two jabs and the booster.

If a minority are the ones with the health issues ... perhaps they should be the ones seeking medical attention on their own behalf. No need to accuse those that got the jabs with NO issues ... (of doing anything wrong. THEY followed policy ... and are fine.) of being at fault.

You are blaming every body else for your own medical problems.

Quit while you're behind.

[mashman]

You are blaming every body else for your own medical problems.

:killingme... I Am Am I. Fuckin' knew pritch wasn't the only keeper of everyone else's reality. I Am truly glad that you're physically capable and well. Your projection leaves a lot to be desired still.

[FJRider]

Both of you say the same thing and both of you present the same evidence for being right.

Occams razor suggests you're both wrong.

I might suggest ... you are a total fuckwit. So by that ... you are then obviously wrong.


So, as a hypothetical then, if someone captured you and took you to a country where Slavery was legal and forced you to work as a Slave - that would be Right? Especially if their Rights and Morals said it was fine?

I might have suggested in the past in previous posts ... your grip on reality has been slipping badly. I fear you have no grasp on any form of reality whatsoever. If you do ... it's not been shown in any of your posts.


We both know that you would think that an injustice was being done to you.

REALITY ... it didn't happen. Get a grip (or take your hand of it) You're just making yourself look stupid.


From that ethic, comes the condemnation of any medical intervention, no matter how safe or how noble, if it violates a persons consent. It doesn't matter if it's injecting a vaccine or drinking a glass of Water - the Principle is the same.

I don't think THAT at all ... and nothing whatsoever to do with ethics. And nothing goes into my body ... I don't have a dam good reason for ... being happy about it ... is sometimes overrated. As long as I agree to it.

And as far as the jabs go .. I agreed to get them.



Nope, because my arguments stop before your ears/eyes begin ;)

Nope ... your arguments haven't stopped.



Au Contraire, it's full of long flowing blond locks.

I'm still holding with my theory.


The Severity of Covid, especially Omicron, the efficacy of Lockdowns, the immorality of Mandates, the fact that this is one big over-reaction and we are going to paying for it (not just financially) for many years, That Jacinda is a little authoritarian wannabe socialist dictator who doesn't give a flying fuck about individual rights, liberties and freedoms.

Just YOUR opinions ... with little validity to back them up.


If they were Jailed, then that shows my point - traditionally Journalism wasn't solely repeating the Government line. The last great bit of investigative journalism IMO is/was Andrew Norfolks work in 2011 on the Rotherham scandal.

The Allied nations wanted them jailed ... some of them were wanted dead.

It happened. Some hung ... some jailed for the rest of their lives.

Journalists reporting that ... repeated the official line as to their crimes ... and ... degree of guilt. They had NO say in the sentencing. They just reported what they were allowed to report.

[FJRider]

:killingme... I Am Am I.

Read your own posts.

[mashman]

Read your own posts.

I Am not responsible for your lack of comprehension. Kind of tried pointing it out along the way with the usual KB results :killingme... as I said, your projection is yours and has fuck all to do with me. Best of luck with your mental conditions.

[Kickaha]

Of non trolls, who has actually met someone injured by vaccine? I mean aside from a sore arm for a day?

Exactly.

A personal friend of mine has had to give up work after the 2nd jab, continuing breathlessness and erratic and racing heartbeat and major chest pains all hours of the day and night, multiple visits to hospital and doctors, initially getting fobbed off as an anti vaxxer and all in her head when she is anything but, multiple ecg not showing anything and soon to see a cardiologist paid for by ACC, that's been going on for two months now

One other friend experienced the erratic heart beat as did her mother but that subsided within a few days

[husaberg]

Working, as in, doing what it was sold to do according to the testing. I once had a coronavirus for about 10 months. .

It's not that i don't believe you but unfortunately, i ask only as you have a history of posting stuff that isn't true on the internet.
So in light of this would mind sharing some actual proof you have ever been medically diagnosed by an actual medical professional with a real cornavirus.
Of course I am not saying you are lying, its just your history of posting stuff that is not in fact true.

But neither are unproven, they are both proven, that is the point. The court bit is required because some idiots are screaming for a mandate despite what has been proven to the contrary.

The vaccine is shit and does not mirror testing. Proven. Not the basis for mandate.
Ivermectin et al have been proven to do what the vaccine can't. Proven. Again, not the basis for mandate.
l.


The 'vaccine' you allude to would be Ivermectin et al applied according to the algorithm of treatment that Peter McCullough et al developed n response to people dying before their eyes. The treatment costs cents and is merely the 'off-label' use of a drug that has worked. That an algorithm was developed in August 2020 and still works no matter the variant. Hard to get, though not impossible, I'd rather it was recognised and so could be prescribed according to an algorithm that isn't overly easy to follow.

heh... tends to happen when one believes that one has gone as far as one can go in terms of what one is certain of.


PS still waiting for that credible evidence with regards to Ivermeticin being shown to cure Covid.

[Stylo]

I Am not responsible for your lack of comprehension. Kind of tried pointing it out along the way with the usual KB results :killingme... as I said, your projection is yours and has fuck all to do with me. Best of luck with your mental conditions.

I'm what they classify now as a critical worker, facilitating the goods, container freight coming into the port. Great job and, of course, triple jabbed. Get the jab or lose your job. Not a big deal, I've got bills to pay, like we all have.

I got the jabs not only to keep my job but, in the broader picture to keep my fellow New Zealanders safe. And do my bit to ensure the goods come through to keep everyone well fed and kept happy.

Struggling a little with these protesters, I took a stroll past Cramner square today and all I saw was disfunction, a mix of trump supporters, anti vax, anti mandate , rainbow colours, hang jacinda signs, leave our children alone! banners...

A random bunch. No clear or apparent agenda, at all. What a bunch of fucking idiots who scare the kids going to school, Here's my suggestion.

Bring in the army to get rid of this leader-less bunch . The Police are obviously too weak to do the job.

The occupation in Cramner square is not welcome. Move these people out asap. They are not New Zealanders.

They are Traitors. Just saying.

[mashman]

Rational reason for getting jabbed

Chunk of yabbered hate

They are not new Zealanders.

Praps they're Canadian.

[F5 Dave]

Ooh, you're like Mother Theresa .

So the rainbow colours? What statement are you trying to make there?


So I was thinking. What if you said, ok I'm going to leave this protest. Best get back home. Kids hate it here.


. . . , but, I parked the car illegally. And eight deep other's joined.


Um, hey guys? I want to get back to Cheviot.

Um. . . .

[Stylo]

Ooh, you're like Mother Theresa .

So the rainbow colours? What statement are you trying to make there?


So I was thinking. What if you said, ok I'm going to leave this protest. Best get back home. Kids hate it here.


. . . , but, I parked the car illegally. And eight deep other's joined.


Um, hey guys? I want to get back to Cheviot.

Um. . . .

Not making any statement, you fucking idiot. Stop drinking first.

Yet again, you make zero sense. Read the post I sent again.

[mashman]

They are Traitors. Just saying.

Nice addition. The 'lack of patriotism' argument. Last time that was used was, hmmmmmmmm lemme see now..........

[R650R]

Ooh, you're like Mother Theresa .

So the rainbow colours? What statement are you trying to make there?


So I was thinking. What if you said, ok I'm going to leave this protest. Best get back home. Kids hate it here.


. . . , but, I parked the car illegally. And eight deep other's joined.


Um, hey guys? I want to get back to Cheviot.

Um. . . .

He was getting all poet and trying to do a Haiku like that’s kid on Hunt for Wilderpeople...

He really meant to report on weather conditions, there was a light rain shower but sun was striking through

[R650R]

.

A random bunch. No clear or apparent agenda, at all. What a bunch of fucking idiots who scare the kids going to school, Here's my suggestion.

Bring in the army to get rid of this leader-less bunch . The Police are obviously too weak to do the job.

.

I’m cunfused and so is Uncle Jack, mind you he just came out of freezer...

Are we talking about the govt or protestors now?

[F5 Dave]

Not making any statement, you fucking idiot. Stop drinking first.

Yet again, you make zero sense. Read the post I sent again.
And yet strangely I'm very like you.

Just less old.
And more funny.
And less angry.

You do come across very angry.

That won't help your blood pressure.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/Y8sy2pdjFPo

[Stylo]

[QUOTE=F5 Dave;1131197394]And yet strangely I'm very like you.

Just less old.
And more funny.
And less angry.

You do come across very angry.

That won't help your blood pressure.[/QUOT

My blood pressure is good thanks, had it checked on Friday. 128/78.

Not bad...

Not angry either. I don't do stupid very good.

Just saying.

[FJRider]

... PS still waiting for that credible evidence with regards to Ivermeticin being shown to cure Covid.

From the files of the FDA ... in the USA for those that didn't know ...


COVID-19. We’ve been living with it for what sometimes seems like forever. Given the number of deaths that have occurred from the disease, it’s perhaps not surprising that some consumers are turning to drugs not approved or authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

One of the FDA’s jobs is to carefully evaluate the scientific data on a drug to be sure that it is both safe and effective for a particular use. In some instances, it can be highly dangerous to use a medicine for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 that has not been approved by or has not received emergency use authorization from the FDA.

There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans. Certain animal formulations of ivermectin such as pour-on, injectable, paste, and "drench," are approved in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.

However, the FDA has received multiple reports of patients who have required medical attention, including hospitalization, after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for livestock.


So ... even the American's don't get it to treat Covid ... officially.

But ... those that have parasitic worms ... see a doctor first.

[Kickaha]

Um, hey guys? I want to get back to Cheviot.


Are you picking on my home town Dave ? don't make me come up there to have a stern word with you

[husaberg]

Are you picking on my home town Dave ? don't make me come up there to have a stern word with you

Pretty sure he was meaning the other Cheviot (https://www.rarebreeds.co.nz/cheviot.html)

[F5 Dave]

Are you picking on my home town Dave ? don't make me come up there to have a stern word with you
Bring beer.

[R650R]

I see our leftie media is stopping to their usual low of name calling starting to pick apart the police commissioner Coster when they know full well the legal vagaries he is hamstrung by even if their existed a legitimate reason to move protestors.

Apparently a proper fence is going to be constructed by govt to protest parliament. If they make the worksite big enough perhsps the monstrosity of OSH will end protest lol
But will the workers turn up to build it? The govt risks another embarrassment...

https://amgreatness.com/2022/02/14/why-theyre-so-afraid-of-the-truckers-history/

“
In 1981, the Soviets seemed invincible. Yet their power was fragile, vulnerable to a single fissure of courage that started in Poland. That crack lengthened and spread until the entire system crumbled. It must have seemed impossible to defeat an ideology that controlled every institution—the press, the education system, the military, etc. Yet, without firing a shot, a courageous protest in Poland did just that.“

[jellywrestler]

one wonders how many are actually really behind this lot. Recent protests in towns like feilding and carterton have seen a small number of people out. In this day and age with facebook etc why aren't there thousands if it's such a problem? When the teachers wanted support they had to get police involved to manage the logistics of this.
We have yet to see a particular time allocated to show numbers, say a lunch time saturday big effort, Maybe they are too scared to do that and show how few people are behind them? The BLM rally at parliament was many many times larger than what is there now.

[jellywrestler]

It's funny how many people pidgeon hole people too, me merely questioning sources etc have seen a few people telling me I'm anti this and anti that, Too many people jumping on others maybe. I guess the Wu Flu is something no one has been spared from the effects, whether it's affected them or not.

[Kickaha]

Phillip Arps unfortunately couldn't make it as he was arrested in Picton

350707

[pritch]

:killingme... Ahhhh, so you're the keeper of my reality. Thanks for finally showing up and telling me that the suffering isn't real... simply so that you can live with the bitter and fucked up reveling in the misery of others that you have displayed to date, whilst pretending that you're a good man. Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.


Actually, that reinforced the impression rather than does anything ot dispel it.

[pritch]

To do anything they will need a complainant that can identify an offender and provide evidence.


Last time I looked all the police had to do was say in a loud voice, "This is an unlawful assembly." Anybody who remains is breaking the law and facing a year in the big house.


https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328559.html

[pritch]

One other friend experienced the erratic heart beat as did her mother but that subsided within a few days

I have had that. The Doc blamed caffeine so I moderate my intake.

[Kickaha]

I have had that. The Doc blamed caffeine so I moderate my intake.

Assuming your caffeine intake hadn't changed prior to the vax did you ask why that would all of a sudden become the cause ?

[mashman]

Actually, that reinforced the impression rather than does anything ot dispel it.

If I thought you could have possibly taken it any other way, I would have accused you of thinking instead.

[FJRider]

I Am not responsible for your lack of comprehension. Kind of tried pointing it out along the way with the usual KB results :killingme... as I said, your projection is yours and has fuck all to do with me. Best of luck with your mental conditions.

Comprehend this ...

I got the required vaccination jabs as I knew it was in MY best interests.


YOU on the other hand ... got the required vaccination jabs as YOU knew it was in your ... AND your families ..... best interests.



Note the difference ... ??




Oh wait ... there isn't one.

[FJRider]

If I thought you could have possibly taken it any other way, I would have accused you of thinking instead.

We can't accuse you of that ...

[pritch]

Assuming your caffeine intake hadn't changed prior to the vax did you ask why that would all of a sudden become the cause ?

The vax came later. I was just making the point that ectopic pulse is not at all an uncommon condition.

[husaberg]

A personal friend of mine has had to give up work after the 2nd jab, continuing breathlessness and erratic and racing heartbeat and major chest pains all hours of the day and night, multiple visits to hospital and doctors, initially getting fobbed off as an anti vaxxer and all in her head when she is anything but, multiple ecg not showing anything and soon to see a cardiologist paid for by ACC, that's been going on for two months now

One other friend experienced the erratic heart beat as did her mother but that subsided within a few days


I have had that. The Doc blamed caffeine so I moderate my intake.

Afaik tachycardia is a very well known possible yet easliy managed side effect of the Covid vaccine
Nurse even mentioned it at my booster. she also mentioned it was easily dealt with and if anyone should experience those effects should immediately consult a medial professional.

[FJRider]

The vax came later. I was just making the point that ectopic pulse is not at all an uncommon condition.

Ectopic beats can be caused (or made worse) by smoking, alcohol use, caffeine, stimulant medicines, and some street drugs.



In other words ... due to common personal lifestyle choices.



And ... thusly...



SELF INFLICTED.




Go figure ...

[FJRider]

:killingme... Ahhhh, so you're the keeper of my reality. Thanks for finally showing up and telling me that the suffering isn't real...

A sense of reality is needed to know that ... if you are suffering ... you're alive.

53 in NZ are dead due to Covid.


Have you seen a medical doctor about ANY of your symptoms ... or are just sure its the jabs that caused it ... ??

BUT ... It MUST be ... right .. ?? if only to prove your point.



Go figure.



simply so that you can live with the bitter and fucked up reveling in the misery of others that you have displayed to date, whilst pretending that you're a good man.

Pretense is the common basis of modern society. People pretend to be people they're not. Reality isn't an issue ... as they have no sense of it.

Bitter and fucked up people usually have the most to say about their sad situation ... and the pain they feel ... ;)

I feel great by the way .... ;)


Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

What do you use ... ?? :scratch:

[mashman]

Comprehend this ...

I got the required vaccination jabs as I knew it was in MY best interests.

YOU on the other hand ... got the required vaccination jabs as YOU knew it was in your ... AND your families ..... best interests.

Note the difference ... ??

Oh wait ... there isn't one.

lol. Comprehend this ...

I have no issue with the reasons why you got the jab.

I Am not jabbed. Haven't got the first fucking idea how you munted that comprehension, but hey.

Note the difference ... ??

Yes, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about when it comes to anything to do with my reasoning, coz you prefer your own willfully ignorant version ;). A TDL by any other name would smell as sweet.

[mashman]

We can't accuse you of that ...

You could, but you'd be wrong as per usual.

[FJRider]

lol. Comprehend this ...

I have no issue with the reasons why you got the jab.

More good news.


I Am not jabbed. Haven't got the first fucking idea how you munted that comprehension, but hey.

My mistake ... perhaps I was wrong.


Note the difference ... ??

I have only your word in that post ... that I was.


Yes, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about when it comes to anything to do with my reasoning, coz you prefer your own willfully ignorant version ;). A TDL by any other name would smell as sweet.

TDL will probably be flattered by that comparison.


Go figure ...




You seem to be a little stressed ... is it your medications ... ??

[mashman]

A sense of reality is needed to know that ... if you are suffering ... you're alive.

53 in NZ are dead due to Covid.

Have you seen a medical doctor about ANY of your symptoms ... or are just sure its the jabs that caused it ... ??

BUT ... It MUST be ... right .. ?? if only to prove your point.

Go figure.

Pretense is the common basis of modern society. People pretend to be people they're not. Reality isn't an issue ... as they have no sense of it.

Bitter and fucked up people usually have the most to say about their sad situation ... and the pain they feel ... ;)

I feel great by the way .... ;)

What do you use ... ?? :scratch:

Aaaaaaaaaaaand they're off...

As above, I didn't get the jab. Have had a rude vein of health for the last 6 years since I danced the months away with lady corona, so yeah, again, wtf you talkin' about with regards to me having to see anyone about anything when I haven't stated that it's my health that I'm concerned with but the health of others? Is that because it doesn't suit your agenda/narrative. ( no question mark should give it away :bleh: )

That certainly is a thing that bitter and fucked up people do too when there is no justification... alas, when trying shafting yer fellow countrymen for not getting an experimental jab that didn't turn out as well as it was meant to using Hobson's Choice as justification............ seriously wtf is wrong with people that they consider Hobson's Choice a real choice? Bitter and fucked up narrative coupled with an inability to spark more than oone brain cell into action. Ya can't expect real emotions eh.

Bet I feel better than you do :laugh:

I use the truths. Seems to keep the dreams appeased with little different each day to need to make sense of while sleeping.

[FJRider]

You could, but you'd be wrong as per usual.

I did say .. (if you read the post carefully) I can't. ...

As such ... I'm right.



Your comprehension is lacking ... and a little stressed.



You can get pills for the latter.




More good news aye .. <_<

[FJRider]

Have had a rude vein of health for the last 6 years since I danced the months away with lady corona,

Timeline for the Corona virus ...


2019

29 December

Chinese authorities advise the WHO of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause, originating in Wuhan, Hubei province


The virus has only been around for less than 3 years.


Perhaps ... it's NOT the Corona virus you have.

[mashman]

More good news.

My mistake ... perhaps I was wrong.

I have only your word in that post ... that I was.

TDL will probably be flattered by that comparison.

Go figure ...

You seem to be a little stressed ... is it your medications ... ??

For the record, I Am not jabbed.

Was it the words, 'the fuck', that made you reach out to offer stress relief? Or was there something else in there that made you go all gooey? Coz I can use that and present you with the Gordon of your perception to keep you entertained :)

[mashman]

I did say .. (if you read the post carefully) I can't. ...

As such ... I'm right.


You said We, not I... but that's ok, you win.

[mashman]

Timeline for the Corona virus ...

The virus has only been around for less than 3 years.

Perhaps ... it's NOT the Corona virus you have.

Oh dear, you were almost doing well. I'll not highlight the flaws in your comprehension this time... suffice to say that you're not the only one to have made the same mistake, albeit the first who made that mistake was a really rather intelligent woman and clicked on pretty quick to her mistaken understanding.

[pritch]

Ectopic beats can be caused (or made worse) by smoking, alcohol use, caffeine, stimulant medicines, and some street drugs.

In other words ... due to common personal lifestyle choices.

And ... thusly...

SELF INFLICTED.

Go figure ...


The odd beat here and there is OK, but on that occasion it went on continually for a day and throughout the night.

We can rule out smoking, street drugs, and other stimulants, including sports drinks. The doc told me caffeine was the usual suspect, didn't even mention alcohol My alcohol intake would have been a bottle of wine that week, but it's possible that I'd had soft drinks or something that had upped the caffeine intake. It was unpleasant enough that I limit the alcohol and restrict myself to two cups of tea or coffee per day, and avoid soft drinks that contain caffeine.

Here's hoping.

[Kickaha]

Afaik tachycardia is a very well known possible yet easliy managed side effect of the Covid vaccine
Nurse even mentioned it at my booster. she also mentioned it was easily dealt with and if anyone should experience those effects should immediately consult a medial professional.

If it's so easily managed they why has it been going on for a couple of months and her having to see a cardiologist ?


The vax came later. I was just making the point that ectopic pulse is not at all an uncommon condition. It is when it goes on for weeks at a time along with other side effects



The odd beat here and there is OK, but on that occasion it went on continually for a day and throughout the night

So it's a known side effect but your Doc dismisses as too much caffeine, shows how seriously the medical profession are taking any side effects

[Kickaha]

Fucking Wellington protest nutbars


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-Ze5_vRJY

[Stylo]

Fucking Wellington protest nutbars


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-Ze5_vRJY

It's a hard jpb winning an argument with a clever person.

Impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. Here we have stupid 101.

She can't even speak properly, addressing the great unwashed. This is funny.

You fucking stupid bitch.... I guess social media has a lot to answer for here

[F5 Dave]

It's not funny. It's far from funny. She has conviction and she has belief. She probably has the good lord and fuck knows who else on her imaginary side. But other cunts will listen to her like the gospel.


I could only take up to the lamb story butt fuk.

[F5 Dave]

Actually the wiff makes a good point, and I'm generally in favour of her pointy parts.

The next speaker should have got up and said " oh thank you Cynthia Bellend, you make some great arguments. We should all try protect ourselves from shedding vaccine proteins. Most people have been vaccinated , so best buy P2 masks and never take them off."

[Stylo]

It's not funny. It's far from funny. She has conviction and she has belief. She probably has the good lord and fuck knows who else on her imaginary side. But other cunts will listen to her like the gospel.


I could only take up to the lamb story butt fuk.

No, not funny. Fucking ridiculous.

Who is this good lord she follows ? The plot thickens. Give me a break. Her only conviction is to Social media. Stupid bitch