Putin

[Berries]

Well, why not. Seems as if he will leave more of a mark on history than Trump, Biden or Jacinda.

I'd wager that he won't make it to Easter.

[Pursang]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMk9VukaMAMMT6n.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVRxKlufj-k

I dunno about you, but Jocko once again hitting it out of the park.

[R650R]

Control of Chernobyl is smart idea for safety of everyone.

With both sides being of communist origin they are VERY familiar with scorched earth policies that is all to close to home with what hitlers defeated armies did....
Apparently it’s actually a joint effort, Ukraine and Russian forces are onsite.
Aside from one of the two major powers doing the dirty there also exists the risk that separatists or rebel’s on both sides could do a terrorist attack on it.
Smart idea especially for us when prevailing winds blow towards Western Europe....

[Laava]

Well, why not. Seems as if he will leave more of a mark on history than Trump, Biden or Jacinda.

I'd wager that he won't make it to Easter.
Hopefully NATO will put a huge bounty on his head.;)

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqLh81qRaxg

The end-ish of this is a fascinating insight.

For reference, Konstantin is Russian (although I believe his family is currently in the Ukraine) and he talks about a Speech that Putin gave - essentially laying out the History of the Ukraine - some things I wasn't aware of.

[1/32 man]

Putin, like Tump, is a legend in his own mind.

He has finally risen to his level of incompetency and he is heading to the highway of hell quite quickly...... oddly it is him twisting the throttle.

I dont feel sorry for him.....but for the innocents that pay the price of having political leaders/dictators like him in their neighbourhood.
Apparently 70% of Russians think Stalin was an OK guy.

[TheDemonLord]

Putin, like Tump, is a legend in his own mind.

He has finally risen to his level of incompetency and he is heading to the highway of hell quite quickly...... oddly it is him twisting the throttle.

I dont feel sorry for him.....but for the innocents that pay the price of having political leaders/dictators like him in their neighbourhood.
Apparently 70% of Russians think Stalin was an OK guy.

There's many things you could call Putin, but Incompetent isn't one of them.

[R650R]

Great article.... written on a pro vax anti trump website btw....

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/02/28/breaking-address-by-the-president-of-the-russian-federation/

[Stylo]

Great article.... written on a pro vax anti trump website btw....

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/02/28/breaking-address-by-the-president-of-the-russian-federation/

What a crock of shit. Little man Putin must have a very small penis.

[Stylo]

There's many things you could call Putin, but Incompetent isn't one of them.

I wouldn't call Putin incompentent either. Calling him incompentent would be giving him credit.

The disaster that he's unveilled on Ukraine so far is nothing short of a war crime in the worst possible sense. I would call him clinically mentally unwell and he should be removed from office . Forthwith.

He has no idea and no strategy apart from some dreams about restoring the USSR and making him the Stalin, or Lenin by invading and killing innocent people. Trump thinks he's a genius.

Guess all Dictators think alike.

[R650R]

I wouldn't call Putin incompentent either. Calling him incompentent would be giving him credit.

The disaster that he's unveilled on Ukraine so far is nothing short of a war crime in the worst possible sense. I would call him clinically mentally unwell and he should be removed from office . Forthwith.

He has no idea and no strategy apart from some dreams about restoring the USSR and making him the Stalin, or Lenin by invading and killing innocent people. Trump thinks he's a genius.

Guess all Dictators think alike.

How is this any different from any of the USA foreign interventions that created a mess....
Iraq
Syria
Yugoslavia
Libya
Vietnam
Korea
.......

All of those played the same storyline a foreign power claimed the leader of those countries was doing something they didn’t like

[TheDemonLord]

I wouldn't call Putin incompentent either. Calling him incompentent would be giving him credit.

The disaster that he's unveilled on Ukraine so far is nothing short of a war crime in the worst possible sense. I would call him clinically mentally unwell and he should be removed from office . Forthwith.

He has no idea and no strategy apart from some dreams about restoring the USSR and making him the Stalin, or Lenin by invading and killing innocent people. Trump thinks he's a genius.

Guess all Dictators think alike.

Clinically Mentally unwell? No idea and no Strategy?!?

Like, there are plenty of bad things to say about Putin. But the man is like a Grand chess master. He's neither mentally unwell nor lacking in a strategy.

This is not to say he's good and I agree the invasion is Criminal, but in order to beat an adversary, you have to understand your adversary and dismissing Putin as Mentally unwell or thinking that he hasn't thought every single aspect of this operation out is extremely silly.

[Stylo]

[QUOTE=R650R;1131198066]How is this any different from any of the USA foreign interventions that created a mess....
Iraq
Syria
Yugoslavia
Libya
Vietnam
Korea
.......

All of those played the same storyline a foreign power claimed the leader of those countries was doing something they didnÂ’t like[/QUOTE

Doh. This is not a Russian intervention to a country that is at war, civil or otherwise. Like the USA did.

It's an invasion of a peace loving country. Ukraine were at peace then Putin invaded them.

Intervention and Invasion are two very different things and I never mentioned the USA. Never agreed with what the USA did either in the past. Not clever.


Sorry comrade. Say hi to Putin for me. Feel sorry for the innocent people getting killed as i tap this out.

[mashman]

Great article.... written on a pro vax anti trump website btw....

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/02/28/breaking-address-by-the-president-of-the-russian-federation/

It was indeed a great read.

[Stylo]

Clinically Mentally unwell? No idea and no Strategy?!?

Like, there are plenty of bad things to say about Putin. But the man is like a Grand chess master. He's neither mentally unwell nor lacking in a strategy.

This is not to say he's good and I agree the invasion is Criminal, but in order to beat an adversary, you have to understand your adversary and dismissing Putin as Mentally unwell or thinking that he hasn't thought every single aspect of this operation out is extremely silly.

Ok, you're the clever guy. Comrade TheDemonLord.

Why is Ukraine the adversary ?

[husaberg]

How is this any different from any of the USA foreign interventions that created a mess....
Iraq
Syria
Yugoslavia
Libya
Vietnam
Korea
.......

All of those played the same storyline a foreign power claimed the leader of those countries was doing something they didn’t like

isnt it odd that trump supporters refuse to condemn Putin?

https://canary.contestimg.wish.com/api/webimage/5f7d24bfe19a2e005142dec6-large.jpg?cache_buster=3f8d30d1220e33b3e0ae051447f 32f4d

Would you burst into flames if you criticised Putin for invading another peaceful country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDu9kVy17Vw


brilliant piece of satire
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-starting-to-worry-about-his-strategy-after-trump-calls-him-smart

[Berries]

It was indeed a great read.
Get a room.

[TheDemonLord]

Ok, you're the clever guy. Comrade TheDemonLord.

Why is Ukraine the adversary ?

So far, from what I've read (which admitedly was translated from Russian Speeches - so I've got no way of verifying it) - is that Putin doesn't consider the Ukraine to be a real country, he considers it to be part Russian/Polish and the other one. He points to Shipyards that were laid down by Catherine the Great and that Ukraine is a product of the fall of the Soviet Union. He considers that the part(s) of Ukraine that used to belong to Russia should be Russian once more.

He's also concerned about NATO - and I read this best articulated as this:

'In the Cold War, we had NATO vs the Warsaw Pact, we dissolved our Military Alliance, why do you still have yours?'.

Now, none of this is to say I agree with Putin, nor do I think he's right.

It is to say that calling Putin Stupid, when he's managed to outmaneuver the entire West and make the biggest super-power on earth look like a bunch of limp-dicked Mugs, is just not factually true.

He's Ruthless, Dictatorial, Happy to assassinate people he doesn't like on Foreign soil - he's not a good guy. He is, however, very smart, very sane and has an end-game in mind.

[pete376403]

'In the Cold War, we had NATO vs the Warsaw Pact, we dissolved our Military Alliance, why do you still have yours?'.

Did Russia dissolve the Warsaw Pact, or did they all just get up and leave as soon as they could? Has any country left NATO? On the other hand since the cold war, several countries have joined, or want to join NATO. Says a bit about how they perceived, and continue to perceive Russia and it's intentions towards other countries

[TheDemonLord]

isnt it odd that trump supporters refuse to condemn Putin?

Except we've been quite vocal about condemning him....

We've also been quite vocal as to how this didn't happen when Trump was in power. And that if Trump was indeed Putin's puppet, then Putin would have invaded the Ukraine under Trump.

[Viking01]

So far, from what I've read (which admitedly was translated from Russian Speeches - so I've got no way of verifying it) - is that Putin doesn't consider the Ukraine to be a real country, he considers it to be part Russian/Polish and the other one. He points to Shipyards that were laid down by Catherine the Great and that Ukraine is a product of the fall of the Soviet Union. He considers that the part(s) of Ukraine that used to belong to Russia should be Russian once more.

He's also concerned about NATO - and I read this best articulated as this:

'In the Cold War, we had NATO vs the Warsaw Pact, we dissolved our Military Alliance, why do you still have yours?'.

Now, none of this is to say I agree with Putin, nor do I think he's right.

It is to say that calling Putin Stupid, when he's managed to outmaneuver the entire West and make the biggest super-power on earth look like a bunch of limp-dicked Mugs, is just not factually true.

He's Ruthless, Dictatorial, Happy to assassinate people he doesn't like on Foreign soil - he's not a good guy. He is, however, very smart, very sane and has an end-game in mind.

Morning.

Asking politely, but did you actually answer the question that he asked ?

Think that you gave plenty on what you think of Putin (an earlier question), but maybe not on "why is Ukraine an adversary?".

Cheers, Viking

[pritch]

He's Ruthless, Dictatorial, Happy to assassinate people he doesn't like on Foreign soil - he's not a good guy. He is, however, very smart, very sane and has an end-game in mind.

Two people who have studied him a long time, Fiona Hill and Michael McFaul, consider he has changed. It must be a very long time since anybody told him, "no." He may now be affected by mental health problems. If he is, he'll be the last to know. Since he usually does what he says he'll do, nothing he says should be disregarded.

[TheDemonLord]

Morning.

Asking politely, but did you actually answer the question that he asked ?

Think that you gave plenty on what you think of Putin (an earlier question), but maybe not on "why is Ukraine an adversary?".

Cheers, Viking

It's more an explanation of 'Why Russia feels it has a right to invade Ukraine', which I think is the more accurate question.

[TheDemonLord]

Two people who have studied him a long time, Fiona Hill and Michael McFaul, consider he has changed. It must be a very long time since anybody told him, "no." He may now be affected by mental health problems. If he is, he'll be the last to know. Since he usually does what he says he'll do, nothing he says should be disregarded.

My consensus is that it isn't Mental Health that's declining, it's the West. He sees weakness and is exploiting it.

All he has to worry about is a bunch of Actors changing their Twitter profile pictures - and does anyone think he gives two shits about that?

[mashman]

Get a room.

I've told you before, no. I don't care how much bacon you put on your sausage, I ain't smokin' it... and certainly ain't Putin it anywhere else.

[Viking01]

It's more an explanation of 'Why Russia feels it has a right to invade Ukraine', which I think is the more accurate question.

Righty-o.

As you wish. ;)

[pritch]

My consensus is that it isn't Mental Health that's declining, it's the West. He sees weakness and is exploiting it.


Your consensus? You've decided to agree with yourself? Interesting.

Putin has previously been aloof and calculating. His recent speeches have been emotional, that's new. It's likely that he saw what he interpreted as weakness, but he got that wrong. He has united Europe.

It's hard to say how this will end and it's difficult to get good info, but so far Putin has got it wrong at every level. A new experience for him. He may get very nasty.

Currently the two biggest weaknesses are the UK and to a lesser extent the USA. The current British government is owned by oligarchs, they are doing their best not to do anything that will upset their Russian donors. Similarly some Repunblican senators have been beneficiaries of Russian largesse, at least they are not the party in power. Now.

[mashman]

He's changed.

v's

He's making good on what he has said to the world openly for the last decade or so as to what would happen if NATO (the U.S.) didn't stop breaking international law and keep moving closer and closer.

He's changed :killingme.........

[pzkpfw]

When the Soviet Union fell apart and the Warsaw pact dissolved, detailed first-strike plans were revealed by more than one country. The same has never been found from NATO.

NATO moving closer to Russia (what international law?) can easily be seen instead as more nations wanting protection from Russia.

Many (not all) people in Sweden and Finland must now be thinking that's a good idea.

[TheDemonLord]

Your consensus? You've decided to agree with yourself? Interesting.

Only way to get an accurate response :P


Putin has previously been aloof and calculating. His recent speeches have been emotional, that's new. It's likely that he saw what he interpreted as weakness, but he got that wrong. He has united Europe.

It's hard to say how this will end and it's difficult to get good info, but so far Putin has got it wrong at every level. A new experience for him. He may get very nasty.

Currently the two biggest weaknesses are the UK and to a lesser extent the USA. The current British government is owned by oligarchs, they are doing their best not to do anything that will upset their Russian donors. Similarly some Repunblican senators have been beneficiaries of Russian largesse, at least they are not the party in power. Now.

Ah yes, the Party in Power.

The party and president that some might say allowed this to happen.

On the united Europe part, I can definitely see that what has happened has Galvanized parts of Europe. I've seen some interesting things regarding Firearms law in Europe - suddenly countries are getting awfully Second Amendment-esque.

The two biggest factors for me would be Biden being in the hot seat (but clearly not in charge) and the absolute failure in Afghanistan. Add in the increasing emphasis on Woke nonsense (remember, as Ex-KGB, Putin will be well aware of the use of Marxism and Marxist ideals to destabilize a country), He sees his biggest Adversary (The US) as not being a serious threat anymore.

[TheDemonLord]

When the Soviet Union fell apart and the Warsaw pact dissolved, detailed first-strike plans were revealed by more than one country. The same has never been found from NATO.

NATO moving closer to Russia (what international law?) can easily be seen instead as more nations wanting protection from Russia.

Many (not all) people in Sweden and Finland must now be thinking that's a good idea.

The Swedes and the Finns though have always been armed to the Teeth but never aligned with others - almost to a point of pride - they don't start anything, nor join in - but are well equipped to finish something.

[mashman]

When the Soviet Union fell apart and the Warsaw pact dissolved, detailed first-strike plans were revealed by more than one country. The same has never been found from NATO.

NATO moving closer to Russia (what international law?) can easily be seen instead as more nations wanting protection from Russia.

Many (not all) people in Sweden and Finland must now be thinking that's a good idea.

Same international law that has allowed the u.s. to do what they want in countries that they have no business being in, like the Ukraine... and yet they were pretty heavily linked with a coup relatively recently which has pissed off at least 2 old states enough to give Russia a call for recognition and a liddle protection during that transition. What's good for the goose............... i.e. they're both as bad as each other, with murca being slightly more visible over the last half century when it comes to freeing the people of other nations whether they like it or not in return for resources and access to infrastructure etc..., yet the fear of reds under the bed sees all that forgiven. Sure, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but the U.S. should have known better. They chose not to, repeatedly, decade after decade.

[husaberg]

Same international law that has allowed the u.s. to do what they want in countries that they have no business being in, like the Ukraine... and yet they were pretty heavily linked with a coup relatively recently which has pissed off at least 2 old states enough to give Russia a call for recognition and a liddle protection during that transition. What's good for the goose............... i.e. they're both as bad as each other, with murca being slightly more visible over the last half century when it comes to freeing the people of other nations whether they like it or not in return for resources and access to infrastructure etc..., yet the fear of reds under the bed sees all that forgiven. Sure, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but the U.S. should have known better. They chose not to, repeatedly, decade after decade.

So your lack of commentation for Putins actions are due to your whataboutism about someone else ,that you did likely condemn..... interesting.......:lol:

[Viking01]

The Swedes and the Finns though have always been armed to the Teeth but never aligned with others - almost to a point of pride - they don't start anything, nor join in - but are well equipped to finish something.

Not aligned with others ?

Sweden
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52535.htm

Finland
https://yle.fi/news/3-12313641

[R650R]

If you like Russian vodka get to bottle store now. Owner said distributors are pulling stock away. He pissed himself laughing when I said they will prob reliable and say made in India. No one will buy it then he laughs....
I wonder if Jacinda will still collect taxes and GST from Russian hookers working in NZ?????
I thought Synlair Dairy were Russian owned but a google says Chinese now????

[TheDemonLord]

Not aligned with others ?

Sweden
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52535.htm

Finland
https://yle.fi/news/3-12313641

From your link, Sir:


NATO fully respects Sweden's longstanding policy of military non-alignment.

Oof ;)

[Viking01]

From your link, Sir:

Oof ;)

Yes, I read the articles and duly noted that comment. But I prefer to judge them by their actions.

Cheers, Viking

[ Edit ]

https://www-globalpolitics-se.translate.goog/usas-bombflyg-ovade-ater-i-sverige-krigsforberedelse-mot-ryssland-med-hjalp-av-usa-medaljerad-flygvapenchef/?_x_tr_sl=sv&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[husaberg]

Majority of Finns support Nato membership, poll shows https://www.ft.com
2 days ago — A poll for Finland's state broadcaster Yle showed 53 per cent of Finns supported joining Nato

Well it was only 1939 when Russia last invaded them and they have the longest border with Russia

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, I read the articles and duly noted that comment. But I prefer to judge them by their actions.

Cheers, Viking

See, having met a few Swedes - They'll hang out with you, drink a beer with you, but won't invite you to their house.

(I really wish I could find the clip of Steve Hughes talking about this - it's hilarious)

So yeah, they'll do Military exercises, but won't want to join your club :lol::lol:

[Viking01]

See, having met a few Swedes - They'll hang out with you, drink a beer with you, but won't invite you to their house.

(I really wish I could find the clip of Steve Hughes talking about this - it's hilarious)

So yeah, they'll do Military exercises, but won't want to join your club :lol::lol:

Morning.

Yes, there is a certain degree of truth to your first comment. I did smile.

But it's the same for all four of the Scandinavian countries.

People working in Denmark have also said how hard it is to "make friends" with Danes (and get invited into the "inner circle"). Think there is a certain degree of reserve involved, and some simply take their time to assess you first.

But it is apparently not that uncommon.

The same has been said of both Americans (USA) and Russians. And with friends in both camps, I can attest to that view in some small way. What started out as "business contacts" took quite a while to develop a personal rapport, and then plenty of informal contact before we became "friends".

As for both countries (Sweden and Finland) joining NATO in the near future, my money would be on that occurring. With a general right-ward (neo-liberal) trend across Scandinavia the past 20 years, the current Russian action in Ukraine is probably the event that would justify NATO membership. First, just have to make sure that the populations of the respective countries are sufficiently afraid.

My 2c worth.

[pete376403]

See, having met a few Swedes - They'll hang out with you, drink a beer with you, but won't invite you to their house.

(I really wish I could find the clip of Steve Hughes talking about this - it's hilarious)

So yeah, they'll do Military exercises, but won't want to join your club :lol::lol:

Did they ever do exercises with the Russians (just to maintain neutrality and balance)? So if a push ever came to a shove, it's fair to say they would side with NATO.

Since the 1940s, no one has ever tried to invade Russia itself, but Russia has had plenty of goes at other countries. And as soon as they have had the chance, plenty of countries have dumped their "alliance" with Russia, Must be something about that place that people dont like

[TheDemonLord]

Did they ever do exercises with the Russians (just to maintain neutrality and balance)?

I don't think so, definitely during the Cold War the Swedish view was that Russia would be the Aggressor, There's also been a few instances of Sweden suspecting that there's been Russian Submarine shenanigans going in in Territorial waters.


So if a push ever came to a shove, it's fair to say they would side with NATO.

Since the 1940s, no one has ever tried to invade Russia itself, but Russia has had plenty of goes at other countries. And as soon as they have had the chance, plenty of countries have dumped their "alliance" with Russia, Must be something about that place that people dont like

I personally think the issue of Russia is that the Memories of the Soviet Union and how non-consensual it was are still fresh in a lot of places minds. Most places that aren't effective Theocracies seem to want Freedom...

[Viking01]

Did they ever do exercises with the Russians (just to maintain neutrality and balance)? So if a push ever came to a shove, it's fair to say they would side with NATO.

Since the 1940s, no one has ever tried to invade Russia itself, but Russia has had plenty of goes at other countries. And as soon as they have had the chance, plenty of countries have dumped their "alliance" with Russia, Must be something about that place that people dont like

Morning.

Military Exercises
If you are going to engage in military exercises with other countries, suppose that you have to precede this by already having cordial political and social relations. Trade relations might also be helpful.

And in conducting military exercises, you will get exposure to the military equipment, training and tactics of the "other side" (which involves a higher degree of trust). Even more so if you share a common border.

Russia
WW2 for the Russians was probably traumatic enough. So the desire to fight in defence of their homeland is probably fairly strongly ingrained, even now after several generations.

With the development of modern missile systems, the concept of a "border" is obviously not restricted to one's own immediate physical border (hence the mention of "buffer zones" and "red lines").

So the current Ukrainian conflict (from a Russian - Putin - perspective) is likely largely about securing its borders, and removal of a "military and political pressure point" on one of its immediate borders. [ Discussions with Romania and Poland might feature in the future. ]

You mentioned that Russia has "had plenty of goes at other countries". I'd be interested in some of the instances that you had in mind. And whether they occurred during the Cold War period (up to 1989) , or post Cold War. Timing and context is important.

Economic Systems
The "capitalism vs socialism" battle (likely responsible for much of the post WW2 conflict around the world) did not cease with the end of the Cold War. Not in Europe, or elsewhere in the world (e.g. South America; Russia; China).

The US gained huge economic advantage (as well as leverage) through Bretton Woods at the end of WW2. And with its degree of control over banks and banking systems - plus the USD as the primary reserve currency, it still continues to do so.

But that power is slowly waning over time. Largely through the actions of both China and Russia.

NATO
NATO should be seen as an organisation (not a country), an organisation having a military focus, and largely US controlled.

As I've said earlier, the military aspect of a relationship within Europe (NATO membership)has frequently front-footed any social or trade relationships between individual countries.

And by establishing military alliances, you can often "force open" - or "close the door" - to both social and trade interactions between countries.

Trade Blocs
Currently, ranking of economic worth of trade blocs would place China in first position, the US in second, and Europe in third. Restricting trade between Russia and Europe will help reduce both blocs as an economic threat to the US.

Gaining control over Russian resources (a worthwhile prize in itself) can be achieved militarily or economically. And if you can't achieve the former, the latter is perfectly acceptable. US actions undertaken to achieve this goal (during the 1990's - Yeltsin era) ended up being frustrated by the arrival or Putin on the Russian political scene in 2000. That didn't mean that those US ambitions went away.

But the real prize is in securing control over China. Requiring the breaking of any Russian-Chinese political relationship, and any mutual supply and support relationship along the way.

The last time I looked, the US - China trade war was still bubbling away quietly in the background. Except that US (and media) focus was currently being directed on Taiwan.

My 2c worth. And No, you don't have to agree with me.

[pete376403]

Some snipping. Not that I don't agree with you, just wanted to reply to one point.


Morning.

You mentioned that Russia has "had plenty of goes at other countries". I'd be interested in some of the instances that you had in mind. And whether they occurred during the Cold War period (up to 1989) , or post Cold War. Timing and context is important.

My 2c worth. And No, you don't have to agree with me.

Was referring to any time after WWII. So; Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia.

Most have got out from under the thumb as soon as they could.

But looking at this further, there were the ones after WWI: Finland, Russian Poland, Estonia, Livonia, Courland (now part of Latvia), Lithuania, Ukraine, and Bessarabia.

https://factsanddetails.com/russia/

[pritch]

Clever stuff.

[Viking01]

Some snipping. Not that I don't agree with you, just wanted to reply to one point.

Was referring to any time after WWII. So; Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia.

Most have got out from under the thumb as soon as they could.

But looking at this further, there were the ones after WWI: Finland, Russian Poland, Estonia, Livonia, Courland (now part of Latvia), Lithuania, Ukraine, and Bessarabia.

https://factsanddetails.com/russia/

Afternoon.

Thanks for the list of countries that you had in mind, and for the link included in the last post.

1. Post WW1 - Pre WW2 : The period immediately post 1918 was very busy with many boundaries changing due to (i) Versailles Treaty carve-up (ii) the carve-up of central and eastern Europe in the 1930's. [ by Poland, Germany, etc ]

You can obviously use your link to find the relevant dates when relevant boundary changes occurred.

2. Post WW2 : All the the countries you listed (apart from the former Yugoslavia) ended up under Russian Communist control (inside the Iron Curtain).

Two names not mentioned were Italy and Greece. While they could well have been absorbed under the socialist banner at the end of WW2, some action taken by the US and UK in the immediate post-war period avoided that occurring. The CIA may (or may not) have been involved. :msn-wink:

Again, you can use your link to find all the relevant dates when they shifted from under Communist control. Two other sources that might be of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_border_changes_(1914%E2%80%93pres ent)#Europe
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2400-years-of-european-history/

3. Yugoslavia: This was an exception, in that Tito managed to "weld together" the former areas (Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro) into a "socialist" union formerly known as Yugoslavia (which was not under Russian control):

https://www.icty.org/en/about/what-former-yugoslavia

Which then came apart a few years after the death of Tito (1980), and with more than a little assistance from the West (and NATO) over the period 1991-1996.

4. USSR: I'll just restrict comment to the fact that when the USSR formerly ceased to exist in 1991, the boundaries of almost all the relevant states within it were then defined within documents then created by the Communist Party (effectively, it defined their boundaries - including the new Russian Federation -and then cut them adrift).

[Laava]

Lols, is a bit pathetic tho...if it was more like 10 million, it might get a result?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russian-businessman-places-1m-bounty-on-vladimir-putin-s-head/ar-AAUwTGm?ocid=msedgntp

[R650R]

Fluff news posted an opinion piece from a USA NGO via economist like it was some kind of impartial
article.....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300531330/alexander-gabuev-writes-from-moscow-on-why-vladimir-putin-and-his-entourage-want-war

But he mentions the Russian “Elite”.... thought that was a conspiracy and only elected officials ran govts??????

And a Freudian slip near end explains why Putin had to act before Russia got “modernised”....

“A feisty, resurgent Russia is a pioneering force behind the arrival of this new order, along with a rising China. Given the state of affairs in Western countries, the pair contend, it's only natural that they seek to contain Russia and to install pro-Western regimes in former Soviet republics. The West’s ultimate goal of a colour revolution in Russia itself would lead to the country’s conclusive collapse.

Washington sees unfinished business in Russia’s persistence and success, according to Putin’s entourage. As America’s power wanes, its methods are becoming more aggressive. This is why the West cannot be trusted. The best way to ensure the safety of Russia’s existing political regime and to advance its national interests is to keep America off balance.”

[R650R]

No doubt soon we will hear of citizen casualties.... and maybe atrocities

Bit doesn’t the dishing out of guns to those who remain makevthem
Soldiers????

I wonder if Jacinda would give us guns if China comes or would she just tell us to start planting rice and smile....

[Viking01]

Fluff news posted an opinion piece from a USA NGO via economist like it was some kind of impartial
article.....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300531330/alexander-gabuev-writes-from-moscow-on-why-vladimir-putin-and-his-entourage-want-war

”

The article was created and distributed by the Carnegie Institute (in Moscow). Which probably gives you some indication of the specific interest group being represented in this instance.

[R650R]

Some great insight and analysis here...


https://youtu.be/pNHUDDqTgdI

[TheDemonLord]

Some great insight and analysis here...

Honestly, the second Russia sees a Tomahawk cruise missile crossing it's borders, it's WW3.

We don't know (although the US swears they don't) if there are still any Nuclear tipped Tomahawks - but would Russia take the chance?

So I can't agree with the Indian General's assessment.

Cyber War - Maybe, but launching Cruise Missiles against Russia - I'd like not to see the sun at 1 am...

[husaberg]

Fluff news posted an opinion piece from a USA NGO via economist like it was some kind of impartial
article.....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300531330/alexander-gabuev-writes-from-moscow-on-why-vladimir-putin-and-his-entourage-want-war

But he mentions the Russian “Elite”.... thought that was a conspiracy and only elected officials ran govts??????

And a Freudian slip near end explains why Putin had to act before Russia got “modernised”....

“A feisty, resurgent Russia is a pioneering force behind the arrival of this new order, along with a rising China. Given the state of affairs in Western countries, the pair contend, it's only natural that they seek to contain Russia and to install pro-Western regimes in former Soviet republics. The West’s ultimate goal of a colour revolution in Russia itself would lead to the country’s conclusive collapse.

Washington sees unfinished business in Russia’s persistence and success, according to Putin’s entourage. As America’s power wanes, its methods are becoming more aggressive. This is why the West cannot be trusted. The best way to ensure the safety of Russia’s existing political regime and to advance its national interests is to keep America off balance.”

why is it that Russia is ranked one of the most corrupt countries in the world?
do you think there elections are fair open and honest?
or does reality not fit with your latest troll

[R650R]

Honestly, the second Russia sees a Tomahawk cruise missile crossing it's borders, it's WW3.

We don't know (although the US swears they don't) if there are still any Nuclear tipped Tomahawks - but would Russia take the chance?

So I can't agree with the Indian General's assessment.

Cyber War - Maybe, but launching Cruise Missiles against Russia - I'd like not to see the sun at 1 am...

Valid point about Tomohawks but I think they are smart enough for limited brief conventional exchange. I liked his point about Western Europe being too broke finamcially and spiritually that they are not ready for a fight.

Something interesting.... Russia produces 29% of worlds grain ( not sure on food/vodka ratio) and Ukraine 17%... So 50% of worlds food supply is now at the mercy of this outcome... Don’t expect to see you fav flavour chips or pizza in supermarket any time soon. This could be the harvest of despair all over again never mind a few hundred thousand dead in a war, and commies sure love to starve people to death...

[nerrrd]

This makes about as much sense as anything else I’ve read about why Putin thought invading Ukraine was a good idea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300532115/look-at-his-face-what-tack-to-take-if-russian-president-vladimir-putin-is-on-steroids

[george formby]

Reports of a nuclear power station, a really big one, being shelled and on fire are hitting the press. Scant detail..

:sweatdrop

[R650R]

Reports of a nuclear power station, a really big one, being shelled and on fire are hitting the press. Scant detail..

:sweatdrop

That could provide good cover for use of tactical nukes...

Wouldn’t take much for conscripts on either side to not realise sensitive areas in firezones....
Or do it and blame Russia.....

In any case Putin did warn you will see things you’ve never seen before....

Meanwhile xi Jing pen is watching weak response and prob lining up Taiwan....

[mashman]

Reports of a nuclear power station, a really big one, being shelled and on fire are hitting the press. Scant detail..

:sweatdrop

Thankfully they're only trying to kill the soldiers. I guess if they'd have wanted the disaster instead Putin would parked a missile on it.

[Stylo]

Only way to get an accurate response :P



Ah yes, the Party in Power.

The party and president that some might say allowed this to happen.

On the united Europe part, I can definitely see that what has happened has Galvanized parts of Europe. I've seen some interesting things regarding Firearms law in Europe - suddenly countries are getting awfully Second Amendment-esque.

The two biggest factors for me would be Biden being in the hot seat (but clearly not in charge) and the absolute failure in Afghanistan. Add in the increasing emphasis on Woke nonsense (remember, as Ex-KGB, Putin will be well aware of the use of Marxism and Marxist ideals to destabilize a country), He sees his biggest Adversary (The US) as not being a serious threat anymore.

The Party and President did'nt 'allow' this to happen . Putin ordered it . One person. Putin. With his misguided dream of reinstalling the Iron Curtain.

Most countries with President's have advisors surrounding their leader. (And I'm not a Biden fan.)

Putin has 'yes men' surrounding him only, no advisors, Yes men. Putin's invasion of Ukraine is akin to Genocide.

And this crazed madman has only just started.

My guess for man of the year on magazines like Time magazine this year will be Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Ten times more clever, and many times stronger and braver than the brain damaged idiot that Putin is.


He needs to be stopped. He needs to be shot. Forthwith.

[pete376403]

Putin probably remains in power because of the backing of the oligarchs. Once his actions start to affect their income, they will probably turn on him and install a president more attuned to their needs. All the money in the world is no use if there is nowhere to spend it

[mashman]

Putin probably remains in power because of the backing of the oligarchs. Once his actions start to affect their income, they will probably turn on him and install a president more attuned to their needs. All the money in the world is no use if there is nowhere to spend it

Why would the oligarchs turn on Putin when he's been the only thing between them and the West that want everything that they have since forever? All the money in the world is no use if you get it taken off you.

[nerrrd]

How desperate would things have to get before the Ukrainians think about blowing up a few nuclear power stations themselves, I wonder?

[husaberg]

How desperate would things have to get before the Ukrainians think about blowing up a few nuclear power stations themselves, I wonder?

unfortunately, i doubt its would not worry the Russians. unless it was close to the border i think the closest one to Moscow is/was Chernobyl.

[pete376403]

Why would the oligarchs turn on Putin when he's been the only thing between them and the West that want everything that they have since forever? All the money in the world is no use if you get it taken off you.

The "west" has been perfectly happy to let the Olis have their money and spend it on football clubs, yachts, etc. Probably turning a blind eye as to how they got the money, but, as long as they want to keep it in "our"banks, its all good. And it's not like the Olis have had it forever, it's only since the Gorbachev and Yeltsin that the Russian state assets were privatized. A short enough time frame that they can remember what it was like not to be gazillionaires. and thus would prefer not to go back to that time.

[husaberg]

To stop Putin issue arrest warrants for those that support Putin, for war crimes, the oligarchs the diplomat's everyone let it be known that step foot off Russian soil and you will never see the light of day again.

[F5 Dave]

Jesus that post from mushheadman that I can't see if not quoted shows how stupid and out of touch with reality he is.. glad he isn't a politician (due to no one bar margin of error, voting for him when he tried. )

[MD]

Until now I quietly admired Putin sometimes for standing up to USA. But now I question his mental state of mind. Why would anyone risk WWIII when weapons have advanced so much since WWII. His reasoning for killing innocent people who live next door is non existent.

Here's a question for you all. How do you explain to your 23 child who hasn't lived through an era of major war and is scared and distressed by what she is seeing and can't process the cruelty of war. Our children unfortunately had pathetic schooling about history and WW1 & WWII and don't understand the seriousness of what is unfolding before us. But thanks Education NZ they can say Kia Ora.

[F5 Dave]

Ok here's a quote back, attributed to someone columnists Russian wife.

'Putin loves Russia. It's the Russian people he doesn't care for.'

So life is cheaper even for those he is less disposed to.

[mashman]

The "west" has been perfectly happy to let the Olis have their money and spend it on football clubs, yachts, etc. Probably turning a blind eye as to how they got the money, but, as long as they want to keep it in "our"banks, its all good. And it's not like the Olis have had it forever, it's only since the Gorbachev and Yeltsin that the Russian state assets were privatized. A short enough time frame that they can remember what it was like not to be gazillionaires. and thus would prefer not to go back to that time.

There have always been Oligarchs in Russia as the owners of the means of whatever production was/is hip at the time and whatever political shit was/is hitting the fan (they're the only people who have enough money to 'buy' the spoils of cold war). Wonder if BRICS would be of any use given the predicted, and unfolding to plan, fall of the economic West given the consistent capital flight East in terms of production over the last few decades?

[pritch]

The "west" has been perfectly happy to let the Olis have their money and spend it on football clubs, yachts, etc. Probably turning a blind eye as to how they got the money, but, as long as they want to keep it in "our"banks, its all good. And it's not like the Olis have had it forever, it's only since the Gorbachev and Yeltsin that the Russian state assets were privatized. A short enough time frame that they can remember what it was like not to be gazillionaires. and thus would prefer not to go back to that time.


The British government are reluctant to seize Russian assets because large amounts of Russian cash funded the Tory party and the Brexit campagn in recent times.
Boris even gave a Russian oligarch a seat in the House of Lords.

Similarly some Republican politicians in the US have received millions from oligarchs.

[husaberg]

The British government are reluctant to seize Russian assets because large amounts of Russian cash funded the Tory party and the Brexit campagn in recent times.
Boris even gave a Russian oligarch a seat in the House of Lords.

Similarly some Republican politicians in the US have received millions from oligarchs.

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-tory-donor-previously-married-to-putin-minister-recently-gave-conservatives-80-000-12555719

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-donations-russia-lubov-chernukhin-b2026678.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories

https://www.ft.com/content/2ccd61c2-0c4d-48ec-bcda-03ad0bb6f85c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwF_2lCW3cw

[F5 Dave]

Boris is about as convincing as the manboy love association. (Southpark creation).

[R650R]

Until now I quietly admired Putin sometimes for standing up to USA. But now I question his mental state of mind. Why would anyone risk WWIII when weapons have advanced so much since WWII. His reasoning for killing innocent people who live next door is non existent.

Here's a question for you all. How do you explain to your 23 child who hasn't lived through an era of major war and is scared and distressed by what she is seeing and can't process the cruelty of war. Our children unfortunately had pathetic schooling about history and WW1 & WWII and don't understand the seriousness of what is unfolding before us. But thanks Education NZ they can say Kia Ora.

Tell her to turn tv and social media off and you wouldn’t know. When covid restrictions broke out I was surprised the step daughter knew nothing about east Germany and boy is she a super bright nerd type that loves to study. But that’s the book burning you get when leftists infiltrate all depths of education system and “adjust” the syllabus...
Even my generation wasn’t taught the full horrors of communism. We got taught about WW2 etc but likes of pol pot were mentioned but glossed over a bit I guess.

[Berries]

I can't work why if he is so desperate to reunite Ukraine with mother Russia he is busy blowing up all the buildings and fucking the infrastructure.

[R650R]

Beware the Ides of March....

False flag alert....

Kampala Harris is going to visit Poland and Romania on dates that figure in Illuminati numerology already associated with tragic event is 911 and 311. She’s important enough(black and USA VP and female) to go to war over but not important enough to the Elite for them to worry about losing her.

She’s staying from 9-11th of March (3) and departs on 11/3 which is 3/11 in USA.

I’d love to be completely wrong about all this.....and prob are lol but thought everyone needs a bit of conspiracy trivia for a laugh

[Laava]

^^^Straight to the ignore list now! That is some seriously retarded thinking. If you can't keep it to yourself, etc.........

[pete376403]

Tell her to turn tv and social media off and you wouldn’t know. When covid restrictions broke out I was surprised the step daughter knew nothing about east Germany and boy is she a super bright nerd type that loves to study. But that’s the book burning you get when leftists infiltrate all depths of education system and “adjust” the syllabus...
Even my generation wasn’t taught the full horrors of communism. We got taught about WW2 etc but likes of pol pot were mentioned but glossed over a bit I guess.


Dunno where you went to school but my college social studies went quite deeply into european history, causes of WWII, and the aftermath. Was a little too young to volunteer for 'nam, (most of my army NCOs were ex 'nam) but it didn't stop me reading a lot of different news sources and gaining an insight. Pre-internet of course.

[F5 Dave]

Communism is just fine. Its just the humans that it becomes a problem with.

I mean Ducks are pretty much Communists, oh sure they have a bit of a quack at each other once and a while, but hey comrad Quakers, we're living the good life.

Except when those imperialist pig humans take a shottie potshot at us and those damn Retrievers.

[Kickaha]

I’d love to be completely wrong about all this.....and prob are

No probably about it

[Stylo]

Must be comforting to the Russian army that their supreme leader hasn't got the balls to be shown visiting his troops while in the 'height' of battle.

How gutless is that. Little guy Putin should be summarily moved from office. Forthwith.

And locked up. Or shot.

[Stylo]

Beware the Ides of March....

False flag alert....

Kampala Harris is going to visit Poland and Romania on dates that figure in Illuminati numerology already associated with tragic event is 911 and 311. She’s important enough(black and USA VP and female) to go to war over but not important enough to the Elite for them to worry about losing her.

She’s staying from 9-11th of March (3) and departs on 11/3 which is 3/11 in USA.

I’d love to be completely wrong about all this.....and prob are lol but thought everyone needs a bit of conspiracy trivia for a laugh

What would have Pence done R650R ? Funny.

[husaberg]

^^^Straight to the ignore list now! That is some seriously retarded thinking. If you can't keep it to yourself, etc.........

I wondered how long yokel and AUStgtr could keep away....

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXwlqoSF70

An interesting series of takes - not all I agree with, but interesting none-the-less.

[R650R]

^^^Straight to the ignore list now! That is some seriously retarded thinking. If you can't keep it to yourself, etc.........

Awesome I’ve been on a winning streak this week.... and holy hell the numbers appeared in post link... this is getting ominous “ava;1131198366]^^”


https://youtu.be/DtonEgatTzg

[R650R]

Must be comforting to the Russian army that their supreme leader hasn't got the balls to be shown visiting his troops while in the 'height' of battle.

How gutless is that. Little guy Putin should be summarily moved from office. Forthwith.

And locked up. Or shot.

One of key aspects of good leadership is to delegate and trust your troops/employees to get the job done. The number one goal of enemy is to cripple leadership and Comms, it would be foolish for Putin to be anywhere near front line.
Also issues with secure communication lines....

Even Colin Powell/bush/trump made their visits to troops late in proceedings and under great secrecy....


On a side note CNN had a clip that looked worth watching tonight, but it was a shameless fake news distorted propoganda piece. They tried to say Putin was weak and disorientated and didn’t know if he was going to continue speaking or not. Looks even like they slowed the frame rate to try and make him look like basement Biden dementia case.....
Trouble is I already watched the original 12min clip on another newscast channel with sub titles. He is clearly healthy and coherent and the bit wherever he stands then sits again is where he offers can a moment t of silence in respect to those dead on battlefield.
Wish I had time and computer power to run thevteo clips side by side....

[R650R]

The Ukranian chap is having a big cry about NATO not providing air cover/no fly zone...
Aside from all the legitimate reasons that stop nato and USA from being in foreign airspace shooting down foreign planes of a country they are not at war with... I see another angle....
The yanks prob want to let this all play out just to see modern Russia in a real conflict. This is real world data that no supercomputer or desktop exercise can simulate accurately....

[husaberg]

Moldova is next

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBh1px-7erM

[pritch]

I see that the Russian media are blaming Ukranian saboteurs for shelling the Ukranian nuclear power station. Ukranian saboteurs must be very similar to Antifa.
Antifa even visited this country just to set fire to some tents in Wellington. If you believe the conspiracy theories.

[pritch]

I was surprised the step daughter knew nothing about east Germany and boy is she a super bright nerd type that loves to study. But that’s the book burning you get when leftists infiltrate all depths of education system and “adjust” the syllabus...


There's no conspiracy there. Doubtless she has not yet learned the entire history of the world, she may get to that particular piece in school or she may not.

There's no book burning here but it's currently quite big in the more backward parts of the USA.

[husaberg]

https://youtu.be/NIgqhU4lkgo

[F5 Dave]

False flags

. BLM.

But what about?

R666 is a communist.

TDL, well TDL is a slow moving target.

[Kickaha]

There's no book burning here but it's currently quite big in the more backward parts of the USA.

Well Trump does love the uneducated


TDL, well TDL is a slow moving target.

Would you really waste a bullet ?

[F5 Dave]

He'll run into one of his own sure enough.

[R650R]

He'll run into one of his own sure enough.

Well it’s slready been done... ffwd to ten min mark if short on time. I’m sure a Dutch F-16 did it recently too but can’t find the vid


https://youtu.be/3kmRFD6q5iE

[R650R]

This Indian news channel has some good reports. The Moldova angle makes sense as that population is very pro Russia. Interestingly India is one of the nuke powers that hasn’t condemned Putin. I guess they are taking a common sense how does this affect us approach....


https://youtu.be/aBh1px-7erM

[husaberg]

This Indian news channel has some good reports. The Moldova angle makes sense as that population is very pro Russia. Interestingly India is one of the nuke powers that hasn’t condemned Putin. I guess they are taking a common sense how does this affect us approach....


https://youtu.be/aBh1px-7erM


Moldova is next

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBh1px-7erM


Are you that much of a special goldfish now you cant remember what was posted only hours ago. a whole 8 posts back......
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/189431-Putin?p=1131198405#post1131198405

If by common sense you mean a deal they did with russia that likely excludes them saying anything against russia.

Russia is still one of India’s largest arms suppliers. Around 23% of Russian arms exports between 2016 and 2020
Foreign Secretary Shringla said Monday that Russia has started delivering its long-range S-400 surface-to-air missile defense systems to India, based on a deal the two countries signed in 2018.
India and Russia on Monday signed more than two dozens deals across a variety of sectors and inked a 10-year defense cooperation pact.
The 28 agreements concluded Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to New Delhi and meeting with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi during the 21st India-Russia annual summit.
Media reports also said that the two countries signed a deal to locally manufacture more than 600,000 Russian AK-203 assault rifles in India.

[Viking01]

I see Blinken has just made a trip to Moldova. He must be clocking up the air points.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3169418/ukraine-crisis-us-diplomat-antony-blinken-arrives-moldova-amid?module=storypackage&pgtype=homepage

Assumedly to reassure the recently elected pro-western Moldovan government that "all required western support will be provided".

And if that annoying little break-away province of Transnistria gives them any problems, well, there's probably still some Stingers and Javelins left in stock (which could be air-freighted over). Who said diplomacy is dead ?

[husaberg]

Well this is interesting even the neutral swiss had launched unprecedented action against Putin and his cronies





https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20220305-surounded-by-nato-and-eu-switzerland-backs-anti-russia-sanctions-but-it-comes-with-a-price
Abandoning neutrality, Switzerland backs anti-Russia sanctions
The Swiss Federal Council announced on 28 February that it froze assets of a list of individuals and companies, noting that "the financial sanctions against Russian President Vladimir Putin, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov are also to be implemented with immediate effect.

Switzerland followed sanctions imposed by the European Union, abandoning Bern's traditional reserve by ordering the immediate freezing of assets belonging to Russian companies and individuals appearing on the EU blacklist.

And it went further on Friday, adopting even stricter EU sanctions applied in response to Moscow's invasion of Ukraine that started on 24 February.

Exporting goods that could enhance Russia's military capabilities is prohibited, as is the exportation of certain goods and services in the oil sector, and aviation technology.

[Viking01]

Well this is interesting even the neutral swiss had launched unprecedented action against Putin and his cronies

Sometimes, one is forced to sort ones own priorities and act accordingly.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/21/credit-suisse-secrets-morally-bankrupt-steal-poor-switzerland

[R650R]

I’ve posted a few times about the strategic importance of high density stored energy that is easy to move... eg liquid petrol and diesel and that with war being a constant of human society we are never going to have a silly zero carbon world.....

Anyhow this article links to several credible sources claiming Russia funded green groups to truck western countries into crippling themselves energy wise..... If Putin allegedly influenced American elections then funding communist greenie groups would be a picnic.... Hell Greta Thugberg even looks like she could be his secret love child released from a kgb training acedmy to attack the west and lead our youth astray....

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/03/russian-linked-groups-donated-to-anti-frakking-green-groups-because-they-love-the-planet-right/

[R650R]

And on top of grain shortages... Russia is number one in Urea exports and numberctwo in Potash...
On top of that European fertilisers are very dependant on natural gas supplies for the nitrogen production in many fertilisers....
None of these sanctions are without a penalty on the free world....

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf5C644ftyY

So, another take from one LazerPig - It's quite Meme-y, but I came across this channel prior to any of this and his analysis on Weapons Systems is very interesting (even if he's completely wrong about the A-10 and my Beloved Brrrrt).

Note - this isn't about Politics, but about the pure Military aspect.

[pritch]

I see Blinken has just made a trip to Moldova. He must be clocking up the air points.


In his book Bolton said it was customary to use USAF aircraft. It was when his opposition in the White House got in Trump's ear, and Trump forbade him to use military aircraft that Bolton resigned.

[peewee]

russian economy must be completely in shambles. ruble worth nothing at all. even less than a car wash token i imagine

[R650R]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf5C644ftyY

So, another take from one LazerPig - It's quite Meme-y, but I came across this channel prior to any of this and his analysis on Weapons Systems is very interesting (even if he's completely wrong about the A-10 and my Beloved Brrrrt).

Note - this isn't about Politics, but about the pure Military aspect.

Gulf war was very clear mission and target though.
Putin is wanting to show he means business but avoid civilian casualties and destruction of critical infrastructure.
Same as Americans in Vietnam or Afghanistan it’s a clumsy type of battle to fight.

[TheDemonLord]

Gulf war was very clear mission and target though.
Putin is wanting to show he means business but avoid civilian casualties and destruction of critical infrastructure.
Same as Americans in Vietnam or Afghanistan it’s a clumsy type of battle to fight.

I've seen some other analysis - some pointing to the blown tyres on the ATVs as evidence of standard maintenance not being done on Russian Military equipment, which is hampering their ability to fight.

And this isn't new - Sub Brief also talked about the same thing with the Soviet (and later Russian) Subs - when they came out of the Factory, they were very quiet, but as time went on, the lack of Maintenance (compared to the USN and RN fleets) would make them increasingly easier to detect.

If this is the case and the Russian equipment hasn't been properly maintained, it could bog the Russian forces down allowing the Ukrainians to reap a heavy toll on them.

[Stylo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH34SIk6yIo

In some ways this is akin to Hitler wiping about the people that don't subcribe to his warped fantasy.

We're in 2022 now.

[F5 Dave]

Fun fact, its 98 years (give or take a week) since Hitler was tried for his crimes. He was given a light sentence and it made him hugely popular. Just before he was caught he was stopped from shooting himself.

Funny how things play out. A Hot war with Stalin would likely have replaced WW2 anyway.

[R650R]

Well we all should have seen this coming...

While western media has championed international mercenaries going to fight for Ukraine it seems Russia is going to play that card too... we all know what they will be called...
Quite ironic that western security will be threatened by a mechanism they helped build....
The resulting lawless bloodbath will prob see Russia welcomed in as peacekeepers...
After all this blows over Eastern Europe will end up as a haven for unemployed terrorists like Afghanistan.... maybe Putin has done his homework after all...4Dchess????
The plot thickens....


https://youtu.be/Lz6lFTMJvU0

[nerrrd]

So this is basically now Cold War II, surely. I remember this feeling, I didn’t like it much back then either.

[husaberg]

Well we all should have seen this coming...

While western media has championed international mercenaries going to fight for Ukraine it seems Russia is going to play that card too... we all know what they will be called...
Quite ironic that western security will be threatened by a mechanism they helped build....
The resulting lawless bloodbath will prob see Russia welcomed in as peacekeepers...
After all this blows over Eastern Europe will end up as a haven for unemployed terrorists like Afghanistan.... maybe Putin has done his homework after all...4Dchess????
The plot thickens....


https://youtu.be/Lz6lFTMJvU0


You do realize whilst you are trolling this site for the attention you lack in your day-to-day as you are generally unsuccessful unliked and generally irrelevant, thousands of innocent people are dying. Yet you knowingly choose to feed on this like a narcissistic twat..

[pritch]

Putin is wanting to show he means business but avoid civilian casualties and destruction of critical infrastructure.

You what ?

[TheDemonLord]

You what ?

I've seen this theory bandied about a bit, suffice to say - I'm skeptical as hell - but here's the 'rational':

Putin wanted to avoid a Desert Storm esque opening salvo that knocked out Power and communications, since although it worked, it meant that rebuilding afterwards takes ages and he didn't want to have a Ukraine that's back in the dark ages, because he's so kind and considerate....


As above - I don't buy this theory for a second.

[R650R]

You what ?

It doesn’t mean there will be zero... even the allies forces had blue on blue of friendly forces.
In a highly populated country a few civilian casualties and collateral damage (Reg trademark USA) are inevitable...

It’s Hardley Dresden or Hiroshima at this stage albeit there has likely been tragic circumstances already

[Viking01]

I've seen this theory bandied about a bit, suffice to say - I'm skeptical as hell - but here's the 'rational':
Putin wanted to avoid a Desert Storm esque opening salvo that knocked out Power and communications, since although it worked, it meant that rebuilding afterwards takes ages and he didn't want to have a Ukraine that's back in the dark ages, because he's so kind and considerate....


As above - I don't buy this theory for a second.

And you don't buy this theory (explanation) because .... ?

[nerrrd]

I would buy it too, on the understanding that in his mind, all the Ukrainians would be throwing flowers at their Russian liberators and if things did get sticky, all the civilians would be fleeing east into the comforting arms of mother Russia begging for his protection.

He’s been spectacularly wrong all round so far. What a genius.

[TheDemonLord]

And you don't buy this theory (explanation) because .... ?

'Never ascribe to Malice that which can be ascribed to Stupidity'

Or more specifically - I think the Russian Military lacks the Logistics, the Co-Ordination, The equipment etc. to pull it off.

[Pursang]

https://mediaspy-org-s3.s3.dualstack.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/optimized/4X/0/0/4/004995aa0110d88d9fbfe6091ffd018d3e447616_2_369x500 .jpeg

[Berries]

It doesn’t mean there will be zero... even the allies forces had blue on blue of friendly forces.
In a highly populated country a few civilian casualties and collateral damage (Reg trademark USA) are inevitable..
Have you been watching the news? Do you think they are just fireworks going off to make pretty shapes in the sky? "A few" civilian casualties? FFS, talk about an apologist for Russia.

[pritch]

Apparently there are a few thousand international volunteers have arrived in Ukraine ot assist. Trained they may be useful, untrained they'd be a liability. So many Canadians have arrived that they have been organised into their own battalion. That seemed a bit random until I remembered that a lot of Ukranians settled in Canada, so there will be many Canadians with strong family links.

[TheDemonLord]

Apparently there are a few thousand international volunteers have arrived in Ukraine ot assist. Trained they may be useful, untrained they'd be a liability. So many Canadians have arrived that they have been organised into their own battalion. That seemed a bit random until I remembered that a lot of Ukranians settled in Canada, so there will be many Canadians with strong family links.

Canadians going to war?


Russia is Fucked.

(Cue some Canadians in War Memes)

On a serious note - I suspect most of them will be going to the Ukrainian equivalent to National Guard/Home guard type units and probably won't be doing frontline combat, more likely will be bodies for doing logistics and all the other unsung work that keeps those front line soldiers sorted.

[R650R]

Canadians going to war?


Russia is Fucked.

(Cue some Canadians in War Memes)

On a serious note - I suspect most of them will be going to the Ukrainian equivalent to National Guard/Home guard type units and probably won't be doing frontline combat, more likely will be bodies for doing logistics and all the other unsung work that keeps those front line soldiers sorted.

You could be right.... I’m fan of several Canadian heavy wrecker shows. A VERY large portion of their clientele appears to be immigrant Indians and arabs. Good luck to Ukraine if they deliver supplies. The American truck drivers affectionately call them Snow Mexicans.
One can’t help but wonder how many al queda/isis types are going to slip through the cracks and get rearmed... although perhaps that’s part of the Elites plans....

[R650R]

Have you been watching the news? Do you think they are just fireworks going off to make pretty shapes in the sky? "A few" civilian casualties? FFS, talk about an apologist for Russia.

No apologist just highlighting the hypocracy of when Russia is doing something vs when America is doing same. As Churchill said first casualty in war is the truth.
None of us are there we are relying solely on how media report shows it and we already seen deliberate bias and false reporting in some cases.
Yes there’s no doubt been civilian casualty and senseless death but nowhere near as bad as what it could be...

On a side note McDonalds hamburgers are only temporarily(obviously Ukraine doesn’t buy enough junk food) closing their 850 Russian stores. Guess they wanted to make sure the reinforcements were well fed before they left for war....
Ironically they might be improving Russian life expectancy by closing.... there’s a free health experiment in the making there.

[R650R]

Before Putin’s time but recommended viewing about Russia....


https://youtu.be/2oAJqz89mXw

[pete376403]

Before Putin’s time but recommended viewing about Russia....

It would appear that the policies outlined here have failed, otherwise why are is Putin (ex KGB, would know all about this) going back to the Stalinist method of (attempting to) control Ukraine. Also mentioned here is the "rift" with China. You may have heard of the BAM (Baikal Amur mainline, famous for some spectacular off road riding stories on ADVrider) where the railway was shifted at enormous cost away from the China border as it was deemed vulnerable - which seems a lot to pay for deceiving the West about supposed relations with China - "The Soviet Union built the BAM as a strategic alternative route to the Trans-Siberian Railway, seen as vulnerable especially along the sections close to the border with China. The BAM's costs were estimated[by whom?] at $14 billion, and it was built with special, durable tracks since much of it ran over permafrost. Due to the severe terrain, weather, length and cost, Soviet general secretary Leonid Brezhnev described BAM in 1974 as "the construction project of the century".[1]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baikal%E2%80%93Amur_Mainline

[pritch]

Was interested to see a US pundit on social media proclaiming that we shouldn't blame the Russian people they are innocent. I pointed out that they aren't innocent this is being done in their name. It was then pointed out by somebody else that the Russians have been misinformed. Well tough shit. In many wars they would now be targets, it's just their good fortune that it seems Ukraine doesn't currently have the hardware to bomb Moscow.

This is another lesson in global survival, if you've got nukes, never give them up. Give them up, and if the Yanks don't bomb you the Russians will. Ukraine had the world's third biggest nuclear arsenal but they gave it up. A peace agreement was reached between the US, Russia, and others, which guaranteed Ukraines protection. So much for that.

[TheDemonLord]

Was interested to see a US pundit on social media proclaiming that we shouldn't blame the Russian people they are innocent. I pointed out that they aren't innocent this is being done in their name. It was then pointed out by somebody else that the Russians have been misinformed. Well tough shit. In many wars they would now be targets, it's just their good fortune that it seems Ukraine doesn't currently have the hardware to bomb Moscow.

Imagine if I'd made that statement...

I don't blame the Russian People, nor do I think this is being done in their name. They are misinformed, but that's why plurality of opinion is important, so for every CNN you have a Fox.

And whilst they may be safe from direct attack, they are still loosing Sons, Fathers and Brothers.

Curse Putin, the Oligarchs and the Government till the cows come home - but no Man should be made to answer for the crimes of his Country.


This is another lesson in global survival, if you've got nukes, never give them up. Give them up, and if the Yanks don't bomb you the Russians will. Ukraine had the world's third biggest nuclear arsenal but they gave it up. A peace agreement was reached between the US, Russia, and others, which guaranteed Ukraines protection. So much for that.

Interesting way of stating it, as that is essentially the same argument for the Second Amendment. And I've seen a lot of very interesting conversation about that flying around in European circles.

[R650R]

Well I just watched the news broadcast of the new legislation, looks like all correspondence on matters involving Russia/Ukraine is closed lest a member or this site be accused of supporting Russia.
I hereby forthwith condemn Russian actions in Ukraine or anywhere else on the globe and fully support our supreme leader Jacinda as comrade Adern is our single source of truth.

[caseye]

Well I just watched the news broadcast of the new legislation, looks like all correspondence on matters involving Russia/Ukraine is closed lest a member or this site be accused of supporting Russia.
I hereby forthwith condemn Russian actions in Ukraine or anywhere else on the globe and fully support our supreme leader Jacinda as comrade Adern is our single source of truth.

IT'S OK, the guys in the white coats are coming doewn the hall, this very minute.
:headbang::headbang::headbang::devil2:

[TheDemonLord]

On this the current Ukraine conflict, I have seen an alarming number of reports of openly Neo-Nazis fighting on the side of the Ukraine.

And I don't mean 'OMG you didn't use my pronouns, YOU NAZI!', I mean full on Swastika flying, SS bolt wearing, Jew Hating, Holocaust denying Neo-Nazis.

This presents a series of Moral Dilemas.

Firstly - One of Putin's bits of Rhetoric was that he was 'De-Nazifying the Ukraine' - and when even the NATO twitter account posts a picture, where a Female soldier has a Black Sun logo on her chest - it seems like all the best lies, there's a kernel of truth to it.

As a quick aside, does anyone here believe that Putin is so aghast at Neo-Nazis that his morals compel him to intercede? Yeah... Me neither....

Secondly - I don't like any form of political extremists - Communists and Nazis can both Fuck off.

Thirdly - and this is perhaps the most worrying, the fight in Ukraine necessitates that everyone who is ready, willing and able to Fight, does fight. It's not like they have such an overwhelming military advantage that they can turn around to these people and say 'Go home, you aren't welcome in this fight, we don't want your kind here'. We are supplying equipment to these people, to defend their homeland, but what after? Does anyone think such an extremist group is going to turn their arms in? Hell, even the regular Ukrainian citizen is likely to be clutching tightly to any weaponary they own in a manner that would make even the most ardent 2A advocate from the US feel inadequate.

Like all things in life, there's things lurking beneath the surface.

[Berries]

We are supplying equipment to these people, to defend their homeland, but what after? Does anyone think such an extremist group is going to turn their arms in?
You are assuming there is going to be anyone left after Putin keeps this up for a few more weeks with no outside intervention.

[pritch]

On this the current Ukraine conflict, I have seen an alarming number of reports of openly Neo-Nazis fighting on the side of the Ukraine.


There are Nazis in Ukraine, they even have a political party which got 2% of the vote in the last election, so a major power they ain't. The country elected a Jew as President after all. The Nazis have an armed militia that has been fighting Putin's stooges in East Ukraine for the last eight years or so. Which is fine by me.

They are "training" (brain washing?) kids though, and that is a concern.

[TheDemonLord]

There are Nazis in Ukraine, they even have a political party which got 2% of the vote in the last election, so a major power they ain't. The country elected a Jew as President after all. The Nazis have an armed militia that has been fighting Putin's stooges in East Ukraine for the last eight years or so. Which is fine by me.

They are "training" (brain washing?) kids though, and that is a concern.

Yeah, Nazis or Putin. The Agony of Choice, right?

The problem I see is if the Ukraine achieves some form of Victory, they will be able to say 'We fought and died for our Homeland, we aren't evil like the Russians, we're the good guys!' and that is some powerful rhetoric.

Especially, as you say, when it comes to Children.

[pritch]

The problem I see is if the Ukraine achieves some form of Victory, they will be able to say 'We fought and died for our Homeland, we aren't evil like the Russians, we're the good guys!' and that is some powerful rhetoric.


To us, well more so to you than me. the presence of Nazis might appear a major factor. I had seen vague references and seen the Russian propaganda but only came across some specifics in a relatively recent item. Ukrainians have been living with these people for a long time, they know about them and may even know some. They are used to them.

This is about the Azov Regiment, the Ukranian Nazi unit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoqZ8gPKKis

[FJRider]

The problem I see is if the Ukraine achieves some form of Victory, they will be able to say 'We fought and died for our Homeland, we aren't evil like the Russians, we're the good guys!' and that is some powerful rhetoric.



But Putin see's the Ukraine in the same regard ... China see's Taiwan. Traitorous REBELS.

If the Russians takeover the Ukraine without any US involvement ... China might have a go at Taiwan.


But Putin's big issue at the moment ... is the same issue that lost the German invasion of Soviet territory in WW2. The very long and poorly protected supply lines.

And a few busloads of volunteers from around the world ... going to help fight for Ukraine ... wont change much.


Putin has plenty of time. Another month ... and half the population of the Ukraine will have already left.

[pritch]

It's all about to get more complicated for the movement of Russian supplies. They are having trouble on the frozen ground. Pretty soon the ice will mellt and the ground will be mud. Good times. :whistle:

The peace talks are reportedly problematical. The Ukrainian delegation can negotiate. The Russians can't. Putin isn't there, nobody knows what Putin will accept, so they can't agree to anything.

[pete376403]

It's all about to get more complicated for the movement of Russian supplies. They are having trouble on the frozen ground. Pretty soon the ice will mellt and the ground will be mud. Good times. :whistle:

The peace talks are reportedly problematical. The Ukrainian delegation can negotiate. The Russians can't. Putin isn't there, nobody knows what Putin will accept, so they can't agree to anything.

A report I saw, backed up with satellite images, says the Ukrainians are flooding low lying areas (hydraulic defence) which will compound the russians access problems

[pete376403]

On this the current Ukraine conflict, I have seen an alarming number of reports of openly Neo-Nazis fighting on the side of the Ukraine.

And I don't mean 'OMG you didn't use my pronouns, YOU NAZI!', I mean full on Swastika flying, SS bolt wearing, Jew Hating, Holocaust denying Neo-Nazis.

This presents a series of Moral Dilemas.

Firstly - One of Putin's bits of Rhetoric was that he was 'De-Nazifying the Ukraine' - and when even the NATO twitter account posts a picture, where a Female soldier has a Black Sun logo on her chest - it seems like all the best lies, there's a kernel of truth to it.

As a quick aside, does anyone here believe that Putin is so aghast at Neo-Nazis that his morals compel him to intercede? Yeah... Me neither....

Secondly - I don't like any form of political extremists - Communists and Nazis can both Fuck off.

Thirdly - and this is perhaps the most worrying, the fight in Ukraine necessitates that everyone who is ready, willing and able to Fight, does fight. It's not like they have such an overwhelming military advantage that they can turn around to these people and say 'Go home, you aren't welcome in this fight, we don't want your kind here'. We are supplying equipment to these people, to defend their homeland, but what after? Does anyone think such an extremist group is going to turn their arms in? Hell, even the regular Ukrainian citizen is likely to be clutching tightly to any weaponary they own in a manner that would make even the most ardent 2A advocate from the US feel inadequate.

Like all things in life, there's things lurking beneath the surface.

That might cause issues with the ex Israeli Defence Force Special forces volunteers heading to Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=owbPBjkh-EY

[TheDemonLord]

That might cause issues with the ex Israeli Defence Force Special forces volunteers heading to Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=owbPBjkh-EY

Zelenski (spelling?) is Jewish as it is...

I suspect most likely is that they will organically keep clear of each other...

[TheDemonLord]

But Putin see's the Ukraine in the same regard ... China see's Taiwan. Traitorous REBELS.

If the Russians takeover the Ukraine without any US involvement ... China might have a go at Taiwan.


But Putin's big issue at the moment ... is the same issue that lost the German invasion of Soviet territory in WW2. The very long and poorly protected supply lines.

And a few busloads of volunteers from around the world ... going to help fight for Ukraine ... wont change much.


Putin has plenty of time. Another month ... and half the population of the Ukraine will have already left.

Kinda ironic, given invading Russia was the bane of Naploeon and the Moustach'ed fellow, you'd think the Russians would learn a little bit of their own history and figure out it also is a factor in reverse...

[TheDemonLord]

To us, well more so to you than me. the presence of Nazis might appear a major factor. I had seen vague references and seen the Russian propaganda but only came across some specifics in a relatively recent item. Ukrainians have been living with these people for a long time, they know about them and may even know some. They are used to them.

This is about the Azov Regiment, the Ukranian Nazi unit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoqZ8gPKKis

What can I say, I'm decidedly against any Marxist derived ideology....

I've known about the eastern european Neo-Nazis for a while, however things like fighting in a war of liberation is really good PR...

The thing that has been surprising to me is whilst there's the Azov regiment, which you can kinda say 'oh it's just one isolated regiment', it's the other regular Ukrainian military units/Militia groups that are prominently sporting Nazi symbols.

[pritch]

The thing that has been surprising to me is whilst there's the Azov regiment, which you can kinda say 'oh it's just one isolated regiment', it's the other regular Ukrainian military units/Militia groups that are prominently sporting Nazi symbols.

That 2% in the election is comforting. Although the open presence of an apparently successful bunch of fascists may attract others from around the globe.

A decade or two ago, whoever was running Ukraine at the time went on an antisemitic binge and many Ukrainians migrated to Israel. As with Canada there will be a lot of Israelis with Ukranian family connections.

There are an estimated eleven million Russians with family members in Ukraine. Young people in Ukraine are having difficulty connecting with their parents in Russia. When they describe the sitiuation their parents correct them and tell them that they have nothing to fear, only Nazis are targeted, the Russian soldiers are handing out food and warm clothing etc etc. This usually leads to the Ukraine resident hanging up in frustration.

One guy who had the experience is now trying to organise all those affected in this way to maintain contact with their families, not hang up, and persist with an accurate description of the situation. Eleven million Russians learning the truth might start to change things.

[Pursang]

Around 2014, after the annexation of Crimea, Russian sponsored/supported/led separatists attempted to take Eastern Ukrainie, around the Donbrass region.
The first and most effective resistance was provided by the local "Good Ol' Boys" militia.
Nationalist, Far Right, anti Soviet, anti foreigners, and armed to the teeth, they posed a major block to Putins goal.

Now consider, if the Mexican President attempted to take back the historically Mexican owned territories of the Southern USA.
Who would be first on the line? The (Trump Supporting) Local Militia. Commonly Identified by Philosophy, Insignia and Association as "Neo Nazi's".

Not supporting their philosophy, at all, but they are generally the most armed and prepared for a quick response to an incursion.
Easy for Mexican propaganda to then suggest that the USA is dominated by neo Nazis! (Actually, it's somewhere, just less than 50%)

Cheers, Daryl.

[Pursang]

Obviously, some Intellect here in this thread, with profound understandings of International politics, diplomacy and military strategy.

No-one yet, here or elsewhere, is discussing China's Win/Win from the conflict.

A). Obviously, if Putin takes Ukraine, there will be little to stop China from rescuing the Taiwanese people from the clutches of their decadent, capitalist neo Nazi existence. (US assurances/promises not withstanding)

B). If Ukraine survives, on the other hand, Putin and the Russian army are revealed as Paper Tigers!
China will be free to recover the historic (1689) northern territories, 'stolen' from it by Russia (1858 & 1860).
Including Vladivostok and down to the North Korea border. (Nobody mentions the North China Sea).
Taking a large section of the Trans Siberia railway will certainly add capacity to the 'Belt & Road'.
Russia probably needs to get ready for the Belting, then hit the road!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/MANCHURIA-U.S.S.R_BOUNDARY_Ct002999.jpg

Cheers, Daryl.

[TheDemonLord]

B). If Ukraine survives, on the other hand, Putin and the Russian army are revealed as Paper Tigers!
China will be free to recover the historic (1689) northern territories, 'stolen' from it by Russia (1858 & 1860).
Including Vladivostok and down to the North Korea border. (Nobody mentions the North China Sea).
Taking a large section of the Trans Siberia railway will certainly add capacity to the 'Belt & Road'.
Russia probably needs to get ready for the Belting, then hit the road!

Cheers, Daryl.

Imagine you are Putin for a moment, your proud Military, one of the mightiest in the world, has just been defeated by a Well Armed Militia using 40-50 year old tech, then the biggest Army in the world (by personnel count) decides to invade.

That presents Putin with an Existential crisis to the continued existence of Russia. And he'd have likely one response....

"Ядерное оружие"

[FJRider]

Imagine you are Putin for a moment, your proud Military, one of the mightiest in the world, has just been defeated by a Well Armed Militia using 40-50 year old tech, then the biggest Army in the world (by personnel count) decides to invade.



And the Great USA got defeated by an army using Stone-age tech.


Your point is ... ??

[mashman]

No-one yet, here or elsewhere, is discussing China's Win/Win from the conflict.

Viking posted in interesting read that ties a few things together (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131198823#post1131198823)

[sugilite]

And the Great USA got defeated by an army using Stone-age tech.


Your point is ... ??

I think his point is, that same stone age army also defeated the soviet union, he just left that part out by mistake. :rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

And the Great USA got defeated by an army using Stone-age tech.

Your point is ... ??

Loosing a War in another part of the world were you don't share a Border is embarassing, but it's not the same as having your border invaded.

If Putin is beaten in Ukraine (and further commentary from LazerPig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPBU_MX1fYE provides some interesting points), then that's bad - but Putin still has his country, intact. 'Capturing' Kiev and claiming victory is one possible end to the Conflict.

If, however, China invades - that's now a situation where Putin could see the end of Russia - at which point, using Nukes becomes a possible cause of action.

[pete376403]

https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/?fbclid=IwAR0pBKfwZgVEztgH7QYZa4Djvz0j6BkPJNq1E6iM q1g8sYHAmz9VIZGA4wo
The war to this point has been a good lesson for China. Like Russia, China has built up seemingly high-tech military forces in the past decade, but they have no combat experience. The miserable performance of the Russian air force would likely be replicated by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force, which similarly has no experience managing complex air operations. We may hope that the Chinese leadership will not delude itself as to its own capabilities the way the Russians did when contemplating a future move against Taiwan.

[FJRider]

I think his point is, that same stone age army also defeated the soviet union, he just left that part out by mistake. :rolleyes:

The stone age army I referred to had a better kill score. And they also beat the French.

Figured out THAT location yet .. ??

[FJRider]

Loosing a War in another part of the world were you don't share a Border is embarassing, but it's not the same as having your border invaded.



Policy and tactics are two different things. Get it wrong on either (or both) of those points ... will lose you the war.


You can bet that Putin's Policy AND tactics ... differ (greatly) from those of the USA.

And if Putin regards the Ukraine as still being Soviet territory ... or being unjustly claimed as an independent Country ... it wont end well for the Ukraine.



Personally ... I think Putin will be producing T-shirts with ... Make the USSR GREAT again.


Watch this space ... :devil2:

[TheDemonLord]

And they also beat the French.

Who hasn't? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/?fbclid=IwAR0pBKfwZgVEztgH7QYZa4Djvz0j6BkPJNq1E6iM q1g8sYHAmz9VIZGA4wo
The war to this point has been a good lesson for China. Like Russia, China has built up seemingly high-tech military forces in the past decade, but they have no combat experience. The miserable performance of the Russian air force would likely be replicated by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force, which similarly has no experience managing complex air operations. We may hope that the Chinese leadership will not delude itself as to its own capabilities the way the Russians did when contemplating a future move against Taiwan.

I know I've quoted the whole post (interesting article, not all points I agree with, but interesting none-the-less) - however this line:


We may hope that the Chinese leadership will not delude itself as to its own capabilities the way the Russians did when contemplating a future move against Taiwan.

We've got no basis to hope that such is the case. How long do you think a Captain, Major, Colonel, General etc. is going to risk their career by telling the person above them something that will make them look bad?

That's without factoring things like Corruption into the mix.

[Pursang]

Imagine you are Putin for a moment, your proud Military, one of the mightiest in the world, has just been defeated by a Well Armed Militia using 40-50 year old tech, then the biggest Army in the world (by personnel count) decides to invade.

That presents Putin with an Existential crisis to the continued existence of Russia. And he'd have likely one response....

"Ядерное оружие"

If Putin's forces fail to take (and hold) Ukraine, Putin will have his own personal existential crisis.

He is a Mafia 'Don' supported by cronies all making billions by exploiting the Country.
(Where did all the military's money go? Certainly not into maintenance, support & training)
The loss of that cash-flow will not excuse a misguided attempt to recreate the USSR.
Actually, "absorbing" Ukraine was probably initially intended to prop up the already precarious Russian economy (by doubling the GDP)

A weakened Don will be "whacked" by someone with ambition and his own view of the future of the organisation.
This will not include nuclear annihilation!
There is also an external price on Putin's head, waiting for the right parties.

Cheers, Daryl.

[pritch]

Putin creatd a lot of comment with that photo of him at one end of a loooong table and his advisors clustered around the other end. Subsequently clips of Putin surounded by women appeared. These were suspected to be green screened, particularly when Putin's hand appears to pass though the microphone stand. The sharp eyed also noted that the reflection on the tea pot shows an empty room.

At his next appearance, when he was finished speaking, Zelenski just reached down and moved his microphone. Completely unnecessary, just throwing subtle shade.

[TheDemonLord]

If Putin's forces fail to take (and hold) Ukraine, Putin will have his own personal existential crisis.

He is a Mafia 'Don' supported by cronies all making billions by exploiting the Country.
(Where did all the military's money go? Certainly not into maintenance, support & training)
The loss of that cash-flow will not excuse a misguided attempt to recreate the USSR.
Actually, "absorbing" Ukraine was probably initially intended to prop up the already precarious Russian economy (by doubling the GDP)

A weakened Don will be "whacked" by someone with ambition and his own view of the future of the organisation.
This will not include nuclear annihilation!
There is also an external price on Putin's head, waiting for the right parties.

Cheers, Daryl.

I've heard that elsewhere as well - that the Oligarchs may end up turning on Putin. Which may (and I stress May very heavily) the preferred outcome. The thing that gives me some serious pause here is what sort of leader the person who could topple Putin would be.

I wouldn't place a bet on them being the Wise, Benevolent type...

[TheDemonLord]

Putin creatd a lot of comment with that photo of him at one end of a loooong table and his advisors clustered around the other end. Subsequently clips of Putin surounded by women appeared. These were suspected to be green screened, particularly when Putin's hand appears to pass though the microphone stand. The sharp eyed also noted that the reflection on the tea pot shows an empty room.

At his next appearance, when he was finished speaking, Zelenski just reached down and moved his microphone. Completely unnecessary, just throwing subtle shade.

That second image does look a bit suss, doesn't it?

Like the focus around Putins head and the contrast don't look quite right...

[husaberg]

If Putin's forces fail to take (and hold) Ukraine, Putin will have his own personal existential crisis.

He is a Mafia 'Don' supported by cronies all making billions by exploiting the Country.
(Where did all the military's money go? Certainly not into maintenance, support & training)
The loss of that cash-flow will not excuse a misguided attempt to recreate the USSR.
Actually, "absorbing" Ukraine was probably initially intended to prop up the already precarious Russian economy (by doubling the GDP)

A weakened Don will be "whacked" by someone with ambition and his own view of the future of the organisation.
This will not include nuclear annihilation!
There is also an external price on Putin's head, waiting for the right parties.

Cheers, Daryl.

As far as i know, Yeltsin chose Putin not because of any degree of political savvy or any leadership qualities or credentials Putin was chosen for the simple reason he would not go after Yeltsin or his family or endanger the oligarchy afterwards.
as long as Putin generously shares the spoils of war with his supporters he will remain "president for life"....

[pritch]

The stone age army I referred to had a better kill score. And they also beat the French.

Figured out THAT location yet .. ??

Ah yes. I do seem to recall something about that.

[sugilite]

Ah yes. I do seem to recall something about that.

Let me of the hook, I figured they were talking about Afghanistan?

[FJRider]

... as long as Putin generously shares the spoils of war with his supporters he will remain "president for life"....

I would imagine a Drone with his name on it ... IS aloft over Europe as I post this. And with enough capability to reduce the area of his location to smoking rubble.


Life isn't always as long as some may think.

[pritch]

I would imagine a Drone with his name on it ... IS aloft over Europe as I post this. And with enough capability to reduce the area of his location to smoking rubble.

Life isn't always as long as some may think.

I'd love to see Putin gone along with a large chunk of Red Square. The Yanks are squeamish about attacking heads of state though. Probably in case someone tries to do it to them.

If they had the technology the Ukranians might not feel so constrained.

[husaberg]

https://youtu.be/_1J65DWUIns
https://images.podxmas.com/2022/03/russian-warship-go-f-yourself-support-ukraine-shirt-shirt.jpg

[pritch]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/03/russia-ukraine-war-warship-that-attacked-snake-island-sunk-ukraine-says.html

[Laava]

I'd love to see Putin gone along with a large chunk of Red Square. The Yanks are squeamish about attacking heads of state though. Probably in case someone tries to do it to them.

If they had the technology the Ukranians might not feel so constrained.
Maybe the chinese will lob a few fat boys over and blame it on the seppos. A precedent has been already set surely?...

[husaberg]

Maybe the chinese will lob a few fat boys over and blame it on the seppos. A precedent has been already set surely?...

When Putin came to power as prime minister out of obscurity he made a name for himself over his handling of the Chechen rebels
Most of it was it seems a complete set up.
Note the year it was written years ago.
https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-russia-president-1999-chechnya-apartment-bombings/30097551.html

[sugilite]

Ahhh, comrade cuntson Fucker


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR4O00ys0AI

[pritch]

Ahhh, comrade cuntson Fucker


People who watch Fox become soooo fucked up.

Putin has responded to the tough sanctions imposed on Russia by most of the world - except Britain, that he has responded by imposing sanctions on the US. Well, on some of the Democrats. No Republican is sanctioned. Funny that.

Hillary will be so pissed off that she can't take the sun in Siberia this summer. :whistle:

[F5 Dave]

She's going to be arrested soon anyway.

Any moment now.

Wait for it

Wait for it.

[Pursang]

Ahhh, comrade cuntson Fucker

And we are surprised that this waste of a life would be a vehement supporter of another fascist dictator with delusions of grandeur?

Cheers, Daryl.

[pritch]

Unconfirmed reports that the Ukrainians have killed another Russian general. That would be the fourth. Generals are usually far enough from the action to be safer than that.

In addition to the generals, the Ukrainians have permanently ended the careers of a number of colonels and a Belorussian of war lord.

Promotion prospects will be improving for Russian officers, as long as they aren’t posted to Ukraine.

[Pursang]

Unconfirmed reports that the Ukrainians have killed another Russian general. That would be the fourth. Generals are usually far enough from the action to be safer than that,

In addition to the generals, the Ukrainians have permanently ended the careers of a number of colonels and a Belorussian of war lord.

Promotion prospects will be improving for Russian officers, as long as they aren’t posted to Ukraine.

PLUS, multiple reports that Putin has 'sacked/fired' 8 senior Staff Generals for poor performance in the last week.
If they are not dead yet, they might wish they were. At this point, front line Ukraine is probably still a better posting than the Kremlin.

Cheers, Daryl.

[Pursang]

So, Putin needs China's help with military meal packs, weapons & ammunition.
Payment with oil and gas, or wheat, etc. would be a sanctions violation, that, conceivably, China would prefer to avoid.
All Putin has to trade is the gold reserve ( probably buried under the floor of his palace) and territory he can no longer defend.

Forget my prediction of China just taking back their old territories North of Manchuria.
They will likely end up with everything North and East of the Kazakhstan border.
Might be time to sell out of your Mongolian oil & gas stocks!

May we live in interesting times,
Cheers, Daryl.

[pritch]

Just listening to an interview with Alex Vindeman (US Army, Lt Col, Retd) on what the US needs to do to support Ukraine. The Stinger SAMs don't reach the altitudes at which the Russian bombers operate. Vindeman wants Ukraine to be given those Polish Migs and the missiles to do the job. He wants the US to give Ukraine missiles that will let them "rain fire" on the airfields and launch sites that the bombers and missiles come from in Russia. He also wants Ukraine to be given US drones in addition to the Turkish drones they are currently operating.

The Russian navy has a strong presence in the Black Sea. Vindeman wants the US to give Ukraine Cruise missiles that will enable them to reduce the Russian naval presence either by sinking them, or warning them off, or both.

It's true that Vindeman was born in Ukraine, but it's probably also true that unless Putin is stopped he will continue to be a threat to other countries that border Russia.
That's some game of brinksmanship but appeasement doesn't exactly have a history of success.

[Pursang]

So easy to be a keyboard expert in a situation that is So Messy.... but in the spirit of KISS, If I wanted to get Polish warplanes to Ukraine I would fly them into Moldova (Ukraine's neighbor and Not NATO) and have the Ukrainian pilots collect them there. Moldova would be wise to assist, 'cos if Ukraine falls they are next in line.
And they need US financial help managing around 250,000 Ukrainian refugees. More if Odessa gets messy.

Another "simple" option would be to close the highway from Rzeszow airbase to the the Ukraine border (80klm) and truck, tow or taxi the planes to Ukraine.
Ukraine pilots can then take off from inside the Ukraine border. (Sure, it's just a road... but these are fighter pilots, in wartime).

Looks like the US will be providing US drone and S-300 long range-high altitude anti aircraft systems to help the Ukrainians to create their own No Fly Zone.

And here is a cool video of a Kyiv panel beaters shop converting machine guns 'recovered' from Russian APC's into some mighty portable weapons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6dNqr7LQz8


Cheers, Daryl.

[pritch]

Vlad is so concerned he'll be poisoned he has sacked all 1000 members of his personal staff. A personal staff of 1000 seems a lot, but I guess if you're a dictator...
He fears he will be poisoned to the extent he now has tasters who test all of his food before he eats. Of course, he knows a bit about poisoning and has experience with polonium tea, Novichuk as well as various gasses.

One of the Russian commanding generals in Ukraine has been arrested by the FSB. The FSB are not without their own problems , two of their generals have been placed under house arrest. Apparently they were supposed to be spending billions on recruiting agents in Ukraine but the money got ummm diverted.




NOTE: I'd have posted links but the search engine of your choice will provide you with choices.

[Viking01]

Vlad is so concerned he'll be poisoned he has sacked all 1000 members of his personal staff. A personal staff of 1000 seems a lot, but I guess if you're a dictator...
He fears he will be poisoned to the extent he now has tasters who test all of his food before he eats. Of course, he knows a bit about poisoning and has experience with polonium tea, Novichuk as well as various gasses.

One of the Russian commanding generals in Ukraine has been arrested by the FSB. The FSB are not without their own problems , two of their generals have been placed under house arrest. Apparently they were supposed to be spending billions on recruiting agents in Ukraine but the money got ummm diverted.


NOTE: I'd have posted links but the search engine of your choice will provide you with choices.

Morning,
If you just include the links in your post, then we won't need to use a search engine.

They can't be from RT or Sputnik, since they've been widely banned / disabled from display across many western countries. <_<

Cheers, Viking

[pritch]

And here is a cool video of a Kyiv panel beaters shop converting machine guns 'recovered' from Russian APC's into some mighty portable weapons.



He says in the clip that the gun is more powerful than a Kalashnikov. That's true. It fires the old 7.62 x 54R round which would make it similar in power to a Bren or Vickers.

[pritch]

Morning,
If you just include the links in your post, then we won't need to use a search engine.



Although there were multiple references none of the sources I was looking at struck me as particularly 'authoritative'. Rather than give someone the oportunity to laugh at them I thought y'all could find your own this time.

On other occasions I'm reading this stuff in the middle of the night. Come the following morning I have no bloody idea where I saw it.

[Viking01]

Although there were multiple references none of the sources I was looking at struck me as particularly 'authoritative'. Rather than give someone the oportunity to laugh at them I thought y'all could find your own this time.

On other occasions I'm reading this stuff in the middle of the night. Come the following morning I have no bloody idea where I saw it.

Thanks, Pritch. :msn-wink:

I used Google (the "authorised" web browser), and doing a quick search, within the first 3 links found the following:

https://foxillinois.com/news/nation-world/gallery/putin-has-replaced-1000-personal-staff-over-fears-of-being-poisoned-says-report-russia-vladimir-food-tasting-taste-test-daily-beast-craig-copetas

https://nbc25news.com/news/nation-world/putin-has-replaced-1000-personal-staff-over-fears-of-being-poisoned-says-report-russia-vladimir-food-tasting-taste-test-daily-beast-craig-copetas

I've even managed to save the links for you. Strangely, the article titles are almost identical. What were the chances ? :msn-wink:

Amazed me that Putin has so many personal staff. 1,000 exactly (not less or more).

But now that they've all been fired, what is he going to do ? It's not like Putin not to think a few steps ahead. :msn-wink:

Thanks, Viking

[pritch]

Thanks, Pritch. :msn-wink:

I used Google (the "authorised" web browser), and doing a quick search, within the first 3 links found the following:

https://foxillinois.com/news/nation-world/gallery/putin-has-replaced-1000-personal-staff-over-fears-of-being-poisoned-says-report-russia-vladimir-food-tasting-taste-test-daily-beast-craig-copetas

https://nbc25news.com/news/nation-world/putin-has-replaced-1000-personal-staff-over-fears-of-being-poisoned-says-report-russia-vladimir-food-tasting-taste-test-daily-beast-craig-copetas

I've even managed to save the links for you. Strangely, the article titles are almost identical. What were the chances ? :msn-wink:

Amazed me that Putin has so many personal staff. 1,000 exactly (not less or more).

But now that they've all been fired, what is he going to do ? It's not like Putin not to think a few steps ahead. :msn-wink:

Thanks, Viking

Both of those links refer to The Daily Beast as the source. Previously I haven't read much Daily Beast at all, although I do listen to an associated podcast.

Google authorised? Authorised for what? I use Google for image searches only. :sherlock:

[Stylo]

I heard today Putin averages only 4 hours sleep every night.

Might explain his 'eyes half open' drowsy attitude. His puffy face may be due to that too. Or, is he sick?

Far from intense, keen and focussed on the mission in hand. You don't make clever calls unless you're alert.

He's always been like that. He needs to be taken out nonetheless.

The sooner, the better.

[TheDemonLord]

I heard today Putin averages only 4 hours sleep every night.

That's not uncommon for World Leaders or CEOs.

[Pursang]

He's always been like that. He needs to be taken out nonetheless.

The sooner, the better.

That's probably just what he needs!

With the girlfriend and her kids tucked away in Switzerland, and the stress he is under, he could probably do with a nice night out and a good root!:tugger:

So who, besides Elon Musk, is offering to take him out?

Cheers, Daryl.

[husaberg]

https://youtu.be/mN3z3eSVG7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvUEAueU5Ik

[Pursang]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMo3tdjVgAQWRb0?format=jpg&name=large

[pritch]

There are claims the Ukrainians have killed a fifth Russian general. Much more of this and nobody will want to be a general. :whistle:

[caseye]

There are claims the Ukrainians have killed a fifth Russian general. Much more of this and nobody will want to be a general. :whistle:

The Pity is that no ones bumped off Putin yet, that'd end this bullshit happening to the entire Ukranian nation.
:innocent::2guns:

[pritch]

While some in the US want to give te Ukranians the kit to create a no fly zone, to make the Russian navy fuck off, and to 'rain fire' on their airfields and launch sites, it seems TPTB disagree.

There is concern that this high tech kit might fall into Russian hands, but there are also logistical concerns. Who trains the Ukrainians how to use it and where? How would it be transported to Ukraine, and what would be the reaction if the Russians downed a NATO transport delivering it?

While the Ukranians are doing OK with the relatively low tech kit they have, It''d be good to see what they could do without having one hand tied behind their back.

[Pursang]

It was reported* that the Slovakians will provide S-300's. They are Russian made and the Ukrainians will know howto use them.
The offer was dependent on NATO (read the USA) replacing them with new US made ones. Much like the Polish Mig offer.
The practicalities (and financial realities) will undoubtably be snail paced.

*https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/03/17/s-300-ukraine-slovakia/

Cheers, Daryl.

[Kickaha]

There are claims the Ukrainians have killed a fifth Russian general. Much more of this and nobody will want to be a general. :whistle:

They are deliberately targeting them, trying to get the message through that they can hit them regardless of rank and where they are situated, they are up to 9 high ranking Russian commanders taken out

[pritch]

They are deliberately targeting them, trying to get the message through that they can hit them regardless of rank and where they are situated, they are up to 9 high ranking Russian commanders taken out

Yeah, they got the commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet too. His rank was captain but he was the top man.

[Pursang]

LOOK BEHIND YOU!

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/4726c14d0739b40ffc061bc44860e37c
Ukrainian defence intelligence have identified Federal Security Service Chief Alexander Bortnikov (Left) as a potential successor to President Vladimir Putin (Right). Picture: Getty

Russia’s business and political elite are plotting to remove Vladimir Putin from power and re-establish economic and diplomatic links with the West, according to Ukrainian intelligence.

A Facebook post from the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine revealed that there was a plan to depose the Russian strongman “as soon as possible” as Western sanctions begin to take their toll on the country’s economy.

The Ukrainian intelligence said the information of a potential plot to overthrow the President “came from the Russian side” in a possible attempt to “establish cooperation” with Ukraine and to “bypass” the existing political establishment in Moscow.

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/ukrainian-intelligence-reveals-plot-to-depose-vladimir-putin-by-russias-business-political-elite-amid-destructive-war/news-story/299bf134a9febd059de7a5c2911ac890

Might be Real or just real good media to rattle Putin a bit more.

[onearmedbandit]

He dead....

[FJRider]

There are claims the Ukrainians have killed a fifth Russian general. Much more of this and nobody will want to be a general. :whistle:

Well at least promotion prospects in the Soviet Armed Forces are good.


The downside is ... you wont survive long on your new pay grade.



Bugger ... eh .. !!

[pzkpfw]

Well at least promotion prospects in the Soviet Armed Forces are good.

The downside is ... you wont survive long on your new pay grade.

Bugger ... eh .. !!

I've read claims (just comments, not going to (can't) give links to in-depth analysis proving it) that part of the apparent aimless-un-directed effort of the Russian forces is because nobody really wants to step up and be in charge ... and take the fall.

That's simplistic of course, an army doesn't sit around with nobody at the top, but it has a whiff of truth to me.

[TheDemonLord]

I've read claims (just comments, not going to (can't) give links to in-depth analysis proving it) that part of the apparent aimless-un-directed effort of the Russian forces is because nobody really wants to step up and be in charge ... and take the fall.

That's simplistic of course, an army doesn't sit around with nobody at the top, but it has a whiff of truth to me.

I've heard something similar - but more along the lines of 'Putin deliberately keeps his army disorganized so that they can never become a threat to him'

I suspect that's some kernals of truth floating around between those two statements.

[FJRider]

I've read claims (just comments, not going to (can't) give links to in-depth analysis proving it) that part of the apparent aimless-un-directed effort of the Russian forces is because nobody really wants to step up and be in charge ... and take the fall.

That's simplistic of course, an army doesn't sit around with nobody at the top, but it has a whiff of truth to me.

Those thinking of taking a promotion in the Russian army ... and fail to succeed in battle ... might feel more at risk of getting shot by his own side.

[Pursang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2mlqC-c6Cw

[Pursang]

Russia's lost Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system command module would be a prize for foreign intelligence agencies.

https://www.thedrive.com/content/2022/03/EW-SYSTEM-UKRAINE-RUSSIA.jpg?quality=85&width=720&quality=70
Lying on it's side, covered with branches.



A curious 'container' that Ukrainian troops captured today looks to actually represent a significant Russian loss and a potential intelligence goldmine. What Ukraine's forces found looks to be a containerized command post that is part of the Krasukha-4 mobile electronic warfare system. The Krasukha-4 is primarily designed to detect and jam large radars, such as those on airborne early warning and control aircraft, such as the U.S. Air Force's E-3 Sentry, and spy satellites.

Ukrainian forces reportedly found this command post container outside of the capital Kyiv. Twitter user @UAWeapons was among the first to identify it as most likely being a component of the Krasukha-4 system, which is also known by nomenclature 1RL257, based on a picture that had emerged online. A complete Krasukha-4 consists of two vehicles, both based on the 8x8 KAMAZ-6350 truck, one with the electronic warfare (EW) system and the other carrying the command post module.

Lots more here for weapons nerds:

Joseph Trevithick View Joseph Trevithick's Articles @FranticGoat

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44879/ukraine-just-captured-part-of-one-of-russias-most-capable-electronic-warfare-systems

[Pursang]

Map of Ukraine One Month after Russian Invasion

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aQX76pw_700b.jpg

Cheers, Daryl.

[Viking01]

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-c-johnson-the-ukrainian-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/03/ukraine-updates-and-scott-ritter-on-russia-military-strategy-and-progress.html

[Pursang]

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-c-johnson-the-ukrainian-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/03/ukraine-updates-and-scott-ritter-on-russia-military-strategy-and-progress.html

OH My! https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51nejqxP8PL._AC_UL320_.jpg

Fortunately for me, Putin is not my bad neighbor (or my sponsor). Nor is he restricting my access to anything other than Russian state controlled media.
So I can make my own review of all of the available media, news and propaganda and safely wait to have my conclusions validated.

Cheers, Daryl.

[pritch]

[QUOTE=pzkpfw;1131199376]I've read claims (just comments, not going to (can't) give links to in-depth analysis proving it) that part of the apparent aimless-un-directed effort of the Russian forces is because nobody really wants to step up and be in charge ... and take the fall.

That's simplistic of course, an army doesn't sit around with nobody at the top, but it has a whiff of truth to me.[/QUOTE


That's close.

Since the war broke out there have been various assessments of the Russian military but there has been a common theme

The Russian soldiers are one year conscripts. They are neither highly trained nor in this instance are they highly motivated.

The Russian NCOs are generally considered to be of low standard. Officers are reluctant to make decisions, presumably there would be dire consequences if they got it wrong

One result of all this is that if a general wants to know what is happening he has to go and have a look for himself. In so doing he puts himself within reach of snipers and other health hazards.

[Viking01]

OH My! https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51nejqxP8PL._AC_UL320_.jpg

Fortunately for me, Putin is not my bad neighbor (or my sponsor). Nor is he restricting my access to anything other than Russian state controlled media.
So I can make my own review of all of the available media, news and propaganda and safely wait to have my conclusions validated.

Cheers, Daryl.

Morning.

Yes, some things will take time to slowly unpack themselves, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Cheers, Viking

Nice photo. Like the hat.

[pritch]

There are reports that the Ukrainians have killed another Russian general. I'm losing count I think this is number six?

[husaberg]

There are reports that the Ukrainians have killed another Russian general. I'm losing count I think this is number six?

i am not sure if this is credable but there are claims.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-commander-run-over-by-tank-deliberately-killed-by-own-troops-ncdw9fmr9#:~:text=Colonel%20Yury%20Medvedev%20was% 20mown,on%20the%20outskirts%20of%20Kyiv.


the commander of Russia's 37th Motor Rifle Brigade Colonel Yury Medvedev had been reported to have been killed by his own troops, "as a consequence of the scale of losses that had been taken by his brigade".

"We believe he was killed by his own troops deliberately," the official said, noting he was "run over by a Russian tank".

[pritch]

i am not sure if this is credable but there are claims..

That’s widely reported so could be good.

I see reports that the Russian Minister of Defence has not been seen in public for a bit. It’s believed he has had a heart attack. Understandable if true.

[husaberg]

That’s widely reported so could be good.

I see reports that the Russian Minister of Defence has not been seen in public for a bit. It’s believed he has had a heart attack. Understandable if true.

He might have also been killed via a heart attack.
Russia likes to poison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko#:~:text=On%20the %20evening%20of%2022,likely%20to%20be%20polonium%2 D210.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko

Maybe Putin had done the same with all his generals, as Stalin did pre-war. ie anyone that was a potential threat like an officer in the army was generally killed. Or removed and replaced by a sycophant party member.

From what I understand that's one of the reasons why Russia lost so many battles at first. As Stalin had purged his army.
I remember reading something about the Poles actually beating them and the Germans had to bail them out and the same was supposed to with have happened with Norway.

TBH I thought that a lot of the pro-ukraine reporting about the battles was just Ukrainian propaganda at first but it seems that Russia's military strength has been overestimated for a long long time.
Imagine if Trump had have sold the Ukrainians the weapons in the first place when they wanted them instead of trying to blackmail them.

The only real issue is that Russia has a lot of former members of the Russian army to draw on.

[Pursang]

The only real issue is that Russia has a lot of former members of the Russian army to draw on.

I doubt that too many veterans of the Chechen or Afghanistan "military excercises" will be too 'gung ho' about getting involved in this one.

Chechnya: up to 40,000 Russian Millitary Dead.
Afghanistan: around 15,000 Russian Millitary Dead. (Of course that took 10 years, not 1 Month!)

Not that the poor bastards have much of a choice, if called up! (I guess they have the option to run over their generals with tanks, if they have any left).
(Tanks or Generals?) Some suggest that the Ukrainian army (including farmers) now have more tanks than the Russians started the invasion with)

Cheers, Daryl

[pritch]

The BBC are reporting that a seventh Russian General has been killed. This is the second Lieutenant General, the highest rank. Russia is saving a lot on pensions it won’t have to pay out.

It’s thought that poor morale among the Russian troops means that the generals need to be near the action. Also the Ukrainians are targeting them. Russian communications are very basic and the Ukrainians are monitoring Russian radio and mobile phone communications.

[onearmedbandit]

Sergei reappeared (albeit briefly) a couple days ago so no he hasn't been knocked off. Yet.

[husaberg]

The BBC are reporting that a seventh Russian General has been killed. This is the second Lieutenant General, the highest rank. Russia is saving a lot on pensions it wonÂ’t have to payout.

ItÂ’s thought that poor morale among the Russian troops means that the generals need to be near the action. Also, the Ukrainians are targeting them. Russian communications are very basic and the Ukrainians are monitoring Russian radio and mobile phone communications.

There is something in the Atlantic that says they had to revert to mobile phones as their new encrypted system relied on 3g towers that the Russians targeted to destroy when they invaded whoops....
There was also something about how they have changed the contracts of the army so they are no longer conscripts but are now volunteers.
plus in another report that the Russian national guard has members protesting and refusing to go into Ukraine as they are only required to serve on Russian soil.
Like i said, I thought, Russia would have got their together by now and they still have overwhelming odds of people and machinery and weapons.
But even if they do, as the USSR learned in Afghanistan, the USA learned in Vietnam and the ww2 Germans and Italians learned in Albania.
You can't win what will become a guerilla war with an army that goes home at night and blends into the civilian population and has the support of the civilian population unless you have the willingness to slaughter the whole civilian population.
But I fear that's exactly what Putin is willing to do, drive out or kill any resistance as he has no regard for human life.


Sergei reappeared (albeit briefly) a couple days ago so no he hasn't been knocked off. Yet.

from what i have seen reported it was a clip of a few seconds of footage of a zoom/teams call.
i am not saying they did, but pretty sure that might be pretty easy to fudge if needed.
it was weird that they did, in such a way.

[pzkpfw]

Sorry for the dailyfail link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10655501/Ukraine-claims-Russian-tank-commander-killed-reserve-tanks-unserivcable.html


Russian tank regiment commander killed himself ‘after finding out 90% of tanks held in reserve were unusable because parts had been stolen’, claims Ukrainian intelligence

I remember in the cold war days, reading of the vast ranks of tanks the soviets had waiting ready for mobilisation.

Turns out, most of them would have been missing parts - either to keep other tanks running, or for sale on the black market.

Theft and corruption at all levels, so not only are the Russian troops often of low morale and badly led, and their logistics screwed (by themselves sometimes, the troops waiting before the invasion were apparently selling their own fuel), but their equipment has been knobbled.

[Pursang]

I thought, Russia would have got their together by now and they still have overwhelming odds of people and machinery and weapons.

I read an unconfirmed report that the Russian army is trying to commission military equipment that had been stockpiled over the borders in Russia and Belarus.

At one site it was stated that only one, of the 10 tanks there, was in operating condition. The other 9 had been 'stripped' of parts.

Most had no engines!! These are highly prized because the same engines are used in Russian made tractors.
That explains why Ukrainian farmers are so keen on dragging them home.

Only 60% of the precision guided missiles actually work!

I bet (hope/pray) it is the same with the Nukes. When the USSR fell, I remember seeing a News film of people stripping the copper wire and fittings out of ICBM launch and control bunkers. Those things also take a lot of expensive maintenance (like Tanks) Who got all the money allocated for that?
Who is going to tell Putin that pushing the Red Button will undoubtedly backfire in more ways than one?

And this: On the gate of the Russian embassy in Norway!
https://i.redd.it/y09v4i4pjsp81.jpg

Cheers, Daryl.

[husaberg]

Sorry for the dailyfail link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10655501/Ukraine-claims-Russian-tank-commander-killed-reserve-tanks-unserivcable.html



I remember in the cold war days, reading of the vast ranks of tanks the soviets had waiting ready for mobilisation.

Turns out, most of them would have been missing parts - either to keep other tanks running, or for sale on the black market.

Theft and corruption at all levels, so not only are the Russian troops often of low morale and badly led, and their logistics screwed (by themselves sometimes, the troops waiting before the invasion were apparently selling their own fuel), but their equipment has been knobbled.


I have previouly read in a lot of those soviet era parades of immense military strength, the same vehicles were known to be doing endless laps. Same is North Korea and China still do now.
they have also been known to really overhype their aircraft agility performance. a lot are huge flying tanks, fast yes, but speed is not good when the enemy can target you from a greater distance.
They have also been known to shoot down their own aircraft a the targeting radar they use to coordinate attacks which is a good 25 -30years behind the US still doesn't always recognize its own aircraft.

[Pursang]

Russia's (only) Aircraft Carrier - Admiral Kusnetsov

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Kusnzov2.jpg/640px-Kusnzov2.jpg

Why have we Not heard of it's part in the Invasion & war?

This is a pretty good example of the state of Putin's military.

1: It is only 2 times as long as the 'Scheherazade' (Shhh! Putin's yacht).

2: Was taken out of service in 2017 for refurbishment. Still way OoS!

3: 2018 the floating dry-dock sank and a 70tonne crane fell on the 'Admiral' and there was a fire onboard.

4: In March 2021 Yevgeny Zudin, general director of Shipyard No. 10 in Polyarny, was arrested under suspicion of the theft of forty-five million rubles (approximately $600,000 USD) that had been allocated to the repair of the Russian Navy’s Northern Fleet warship.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-cant-attack-ukraine-and-may-never-sail-again/

5: 2022 Putin attempt's to take Ukranian Ports of Mariupol and Odessa, boat not ready! Probably just as well, Ukranian's would sink it!

Cheers, Daryl.

[husaberg]

Russia's (only) Aircraft Carrier - Admiral Kusnetsov

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Kusnzov2.jpg/640px-Kusnzov2.jpg

Why have we Not heard of it's part in the Invasion & war?

This is a pretty good example of the state of Putin's military.

1: It is only 2 times as long as the 'Scheherazade' (Shhh! Putin's yacht).

2: Was taken out of service in 2017 for refurbishment. Still way OoS!

3: 2018 the floating dry-dock sank and a 70tonne crane fell on the 'Admiral' and there was a fire onboard.

4: In March 2021 Yevgeny Zudin, general director of Shipyard No. 10 in Polyarny, was arrested under suspicion of the theft of forty-five million rubles (approximately $600,000 USD) that had been allocated to the repair of the Russian Navy’s Northern Fleet warship.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-cant-attack-ukraine-and-may-never-sail-again/

5: 2022 Putin attempt's to take Ukranian Ports of Mariupol and Odessa, boat not ready! Probably just as well, Ukranian's would sink it!

Cheers, Daryl.


i thought it broke down on it;s last operation and had to be towed a few times and they started to use it as a floating Baracks?
from memory, she never sails anywhere without a Tug.
Even when it goes, old smoky is not very stealthy as it normally has a trail of black smoke even bigger than a coal-fired ww1 era liner.
deploying an aircraft carrier to the Ukraine might be a bit of a misstep as Ukraine has anti-ship cruise missiles with a 300 km range
i don't know what other aircraft launch anti-ship missiles they have but i am pretty sure they could take out a Russian carrier given enough of a reason as they are fighting for their lives and will take greater risks then the Russians will.

[Pursang]

i thought it broke down on it;s last operation and had to be towed a few times and they started to use it as a floating Baracks?
from memory, she never sails anywhere without a Tug.
Even when it goes, old smoky is not very stealthy as it normally has a trail of black smoke even bigger than a coal-fired ww1 era liner.
deploying an aircraft carrier to the Ukraine might be a bit of a misstep as Ukraine has anti-ship cruise missiles with a 300 km range
i don't know what other aircraft launch anti-ship missiles they have but i am pretty sure they could take out a Russian carrier given enough of a reason as they are fighting for their lives and will take greater risks then the Russians will.

All pretty much true! Last real use was in Syria, for aircraft sorties. Taken out of use because the aircraft landing catch cable system was miss-behaving. Lost a plane or two off the end.

Ran on heavy fuel oil and very smokey if the oil is not preheated sufficiently. I think conversion to Diesel was on the refurb. agenda.
Electrics, electronics and warfare systems are also USSR era and were supposed to be updated.

It's primary role was for support and protection of missile launching submarines, so probably unnecessary.
Most of the cruise missile launches on Ukraine seem to have been from fast moving surface ships, out in the Black Sea.

Main point, however, this is the Flagship of the Russian Navy and it is not fit for service basically due to neglectful incompetence and corruption.
Like the tanks and just about everything else.

Hard to imagine that the CIA, US Military Intelligence (oxym!) and the entire Military/Industrial Complex were not truly aware of the state of things!
I guess, by keeping quiet, Putin wasn't aware either.

Cheers, Daryl.

[pzkpfw]

Let alone how useless it is, it is unlikely to be able to enter the Black Sea. (Currently it's way over in Murmansk.)

The treaties giving Turkey control of the passages through their land don't allow Aircraft Carriers to transit. Apparently one reason the thing is (or was?) called an Aircraft Cruiser by the Russians.

But right now, I think I've read any military vessel will have issues going through (even if it has to be towed by tugs ...), by Turkish decision on the war starting.

[Pursang]

Biden - "For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power,"

"This is how a weak and sick person behaves - psychiatrists will be able to explain his behaviour better," Vyacheslav Volodin, chairman of the Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, said on Saturday. "American citizens should be ashamed of their president."

Yeah Righto!

Actually a very clear and precise signal on many levels.

To Putin: You will not come out of this well.

To Ukraine: USA will support Ukraine to finish this business.

To Poland and NATO: You would be wise to support us in this.

To Dissident parties in Russia: USA will look kindly on successful 'regime changers'.

To American voters: I'm not just an old politician, I'm your 'Leader of the Free world'.

To Everyone: I'm sick of this Bull Shit.

[Pursang]

Putin's addition of a lot more these Pricks will mean retaking Donbas might a bit tougher for the Ukrainians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/81/Wagnerlogo.png/200px-Wagnerlogo.png
After all they were there, running things back in 2014.

High stakes for Putin too, they like to be paid in 'real dollars' so that means an absolute shit load of rubles.

Interestingly, naming the group Wagner is a tribute to Adolf Hitler's favorite composer.

The Wagner Group also includes a contingent known as Rusich, or Task Force Rusich, described as a “sabotage and assault reconnaissance group”.
The Rusich logo features a Kolovrat, a Slavic Swastika (source Wikipedia)
https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1688,w_3000,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1643187527/220125-russia-neonazis-tease-01_cngrbv

How good they as warriors are is not well reported. They are old ex soldiers 35 -55 (Average age 40) mostly Russian. Most of their deployments have been in Syria and parts of Africa. They are not afraid to play dirty and have been accused of war crimes many times.
Being a 'so called' private force has previously allowed Putin a degree of 'plausible deniability' for their use and actions. NOT this time!
How well they will be equipped and supported remains to be seen. If no better than the regular Russian army, expect a similar outcome.

[pritch]

The Wagner Group might be a worry, but Putin put his paratroopers into the assault on Kiev with the result that he now has far fewer paratroopers.

It seems Putin may have believed his own proaganda, that the Ukranians would welcome their Russian liberators with open arms. There are reports that several of his advisors and their deputies are under house arrest and his Minister of Defence had a heart attack.

If Nato can keep supplying Ukraine with enough arms, and can hang together, life is going to get tough for Putin.

[Pursang]

https://youtu.be/TGz9RaezPoc

[Pursang]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/WEBPOSTS/ASSOCIATION+PICS/Darth+Putin.JPG

[Pursang]

Bit of an update on Putin's call up of 100,000 reservists, new conscription intake and some Wagner group info.

From a source/site I would normally ignore, this particular one article seems to be balanced and well referenced. (Who knew?)
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/03/29/russia-calling-100000-reservists-to-active-duty-and-moving-wagner-group-from-syria-to-deal-with-ukraine-manpower-crunch-n542494

You would think that It might be hard for Putin to explain why he needs another 100,000 ex-soldiers for a 'special operation' that is proceeding well and exactly to plan?

As far as Wagner goes, their experience in Syria, i.e. Attacking civilians and beating and torturing Syrian army deserters (similar to regular Russian Army practice) will not translate easily to the geographical or tactical environment they are going to face in Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Army is not Syrian villagers.

One of the Russian mercenaries who fought in Syria as part of the Wagner Group says that the Russian Army has been lying about gaining combat experience in Syria.

He says only the Russian Air Force gained knowledge in Syria that is useful in Ukraine. (and hows that going for them?) http://twitter.com/VJwvPC24Hu (Just checked this tweet again...and surprise It's gone!! Make of that as you will)
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) March 27, 2022

[Pursang]

Latest Justification! Poor Putin misled by Yes Men who won't tell him the TRUTH!

https://www.reuters.com/resizer/9ZmwgfrOY6sZwLBMEIMbQKuJb-w=/960x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/DNWYXFFUBZLRPIKQAG7MKXUVVU.jpg

Putin is probably the only person in Russia today with Free and Unfettered access to CNN, BBC & Al Jazeera News. (But Only watches FOX)

So pleased with this , I made a meme!
https://s3.amazonaws.com/WEBPOSTS/Yes+Mr+Putin.jpg

[pete376403]

Found on Quora as part of an excellent analysis of Russian "fascist gangsterism" political system. How Putin etc have kept the military at a level where they cannot be a threat to the "state"

[Pursang]

Found on Quora as part of an excellent analysis of Russian "fascist gangsterism" political system. How Putin etc have kept the military at a level where they cannot be a threat to the "state"

Wow! For military men you would expect them to be much more careful handling their weapons. Just keep shooting themselves!!
The 2022 Update should be impressive too!

Yes, the Russian military no longer a threat to the Russian state! And, not to a neighboring state, like Ukraine, either.

[Pursang]

Trying to figure out what went wrong!

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aZr84R3_460s.jpg

[pete376403]

good read. source of the image I posted before
https://www.quora.com/Has-Russias-invasion-of-Ukraine-taking-almost-one-month-and-failing-to-capture-more-than-a-single-major-city-exposed-Russias-military-might-as-a-Paper-Tiger

[Pursang]

good read. source of the image I posted before
https://www.quora.com/Has-Russias-invasion-of-Ukraine-taking-almost-one-month-and-failing-to-capture-more-than-a-single-major-city-exposed-Russias-military-might-as-a-Paper-Tiger

Yes, a very good read. A good background to why the Ukrainians call the Invaders Orcs.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a57b1a90b4c0dc1c91f0cffda3d79cfb-lq
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c450f2e0fdec34bec8bfeade51151b31-lq

[pritch]

That theory about the 'yes men' being afraid to give Putin the bad news has the ring of truth. As difficult as it is to determine what the truth is. Basically Putin has already lost the war in that he failed to do what he wanted to do. It's generally considered that the intent was for the Russian army to roll over the Ukrainians in three days, take Kiev, then install a puppet government.

The Russian line now is that the attack on Kiev was a diversion. They put their paratroops in to that effort, not normally what you'd do in a diversion. The airborne troops suffered heavy losses. That was no feint.

The Ukranians are now pushing the Russians back in the East. Don't be misled by any of the bullshit about the Russian "heroes of Donbas". These arseholes were complicit in the shooting down of a Malaysian Airlines 747 with the loss of some 300 innocent lives.

Previously Ukraine had a corrupt Russian puppet president until a revolution toppled him. The story of that revolution which took place over the winter of 2013/14 is currently available on Netflix in a documentary, "Winter On Fire."

[husaberg]

bloody ruskies blew it up


The An-225 was destroyed in the Battle of Antonov Airport during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.
With a maximum takeoff weight of 640 tonnes (705 short tons), the An-225 held several records, including heaviest aircraft ever built and largest wingspan of any aircraft in operational service. The Mriya attracted a high degree of public interest, attaining a global following due to its size and its uniqueness. People frequently visited airports to see its scheduled arrivals and departures.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Antonov_An-225_with_Soviet_space_shuttle_Buran_on_top.jpeg/1280px-Antonov_An-225_with_Soviet_space_shuttle_Buran_on_top.jpeg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/7/7a/Mriya_departing_Gostomel_for_trip_to_Perth.ogv/Mriya_departing_Gostomel_for_trip_to_Perth.ogv.480 p.vp9.webm

[pritch]

Learn your history people.

Russian soldiers were digging defensive positions in the Red Forest. They had been told that this was to protect strategic infrastructure. Even had they heard it’s name mentioned they would not have recognised it. They had never heard of Chernobyl. They were not told it was a nuclear power station, nor were they told of tbe history.

They are now suffering radiation sickness.

This is not necessarily callous indifference on behalf of whoever was in charge, it was more likely ignorance. In Russia news of tbe drama at Chernobyl was kept quiet.

[Pursang]

This certainly looks a lot like callous indifference on behalf of whoever was in charge!

Filmed by a Ukrainian drone, Russian soldiers left behind in the snow trying to catch fleeing truck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcxZJyW0iA


Officer says F**k! Nazi drone has spotted us. We must relocate.
You and (looks about)... er.. You! You two brave soldiers are Volunteering to dig in and cover our withdrawal.
Carry on! (Jumps into APC, f**ks off first).

[pritch]

There's a headline in The Guardian today. "Russian forces leave Chernobyl." A masterpiece of understatement. Hundreds of them were trucked out sick.

[george formby]

There's a headline in The Guardian today. "Russian forces leave Chernobyl." A masterpiece of understatement. Hundreds of them were trucked out sick.


Bit more here (https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300555567/ukraine-russian-forces-leaving-chernobyl-after-radiation-exposure-state-power-company-says), but info still sketchy.

[Berries]

Bit more here (https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300555567/ukraine-russian-forces-leaving-chernobyl-after-radiation-exposure-state-power-company-says), but info still sketchy.
Refer to post #2.

[TheDemonLord]

Learn your history people.

Russian soldiers were digging defensive positions in the Red Forest. They had been told that this was to protect strategic infrastructure. Even had they heard it’s name mentioned they would not have recognised it. They had never heard of Chernobyl. They were not told it was a nuclear power station, nor were they told of tbe history.

They are now suffering radiation sickness.

This is not necessarily callous indifference on behalf of whoever was in charge, it was more likely ignorance. In Russia news of tbe drama at Chernobyl was kept quiet.

Or....

They are trying to make Escape from Tarkov a reality....

[Pursang]

Putin F**k Off Tour
350871

[Pursang]

https://i.redd.it/0lbnsz7osnq81.png

[pritch]

A bit ballsy this, a helicopter attack on a fuel storage facility in Belgorod, RUSSIA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ1PDP28iHI

[Pursang]

It's easy for me to mock Putin as a Fool, ('cos he is) but he is also conducting a real war with devastating consequences for Ukraine.

This quick video shows the devastation of Mariupol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhqOjTq6sH8

Putin didn't need a functioning town, he just wanted a land bridge/link between Donbass & Crimea to secure and service each other.
He is not getting that! The Donbass region will be recovered by Ukraine , I expect them to ultimately take back Crimea too!

The rebuild of Mariupol should include a large Military airbase and a navy base. Defense industries and all the civilian industries and infrastructure.
The residents and the defenders deserve a return to a beautiful city that will support them again for generations.
Best way to stick it to Putin and the Orc army.

[pritch]

The Russians took the mayor of Mariupol away but he has since returned and explained what happened. He said the Russians totally believe the propaganda and have no concept of reality. They thought they were freeing the town from Nazis. He told them that he had never even met a Nazi.

Even if the Russians he was talking to were convinced, it's a bit late to sort of go "Ooops!"

[husaberg]

A bit ballsy this, a helicopter attack on a fuel storage facility in Belgorod, RUSSIA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ1PDP28iHI

I saw that and I thought cool same, as you ballsy move all right. Then i thought Put has been known to do this to get support before.
what better way than "look they are attacking us on our own soil" He might be using it as a reason to escalate the war or gain support.

He did it with the Chechens.
https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-russia-president-1999-chechnya-apartment-bombings/30097551.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#:~:text=The%20Russian%2 0apartment%20bombings%20were,of%20fear%20across%20 the%20country.
Putins troops were actually caught loading explosives into an apartment building.

remember Poland

On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland.


Czechoslovakia

germany started a massive propaganda campaign which aimed to show that the German minority was being repressed by the predominantly Czech government. Feigning outrage over the supposed mistreatment of German peoples inside the borders of his southern neighbor, in September 1938 Hitler demanded that Czechoslovakia cede the Sudetenland to Germany or be prepared to face war.

The reason i say this is.

The concern is that if Putin feels cornered and that his strategy in Ukraine is failing, he could use tactical nuclear weapons as a "game changer", to break a stalemate or avoid defeat.
But the situation would likely have to get worse in Ukraine - or back in Russia - for him to consider this.
James Acton, a nuclear expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Pace in Washington DC, says: "I am legitimately worried that in that circumstance Putin might use a nuclear weapon, most likely on the ground in Ukraine to terrify everyone and get his way. We are not at that point yet."
Dr Heather Williams, nuclear expert at Kings College London, says one problem is that it is unclear what "winning" in Ukraine would look like for Putin - and thus what might drive Russia to use a nuclear weapon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60664169

[pritch]

I saw that and I thought cool same, as you ballsy move all right. Then i thought Put has been known to do this to get support before.
what better way than "look they are attacking us on our own soil" He might be using it as a reason to escalate the war or gain support.



That has been suggested as a possibility. In Ukraine the Russians have been experiencing fuel shortages and have targeted Ukrainian fuel depots, so they couldn't use those even if they weren't going backwards. It would be odd behaviour to destroy one of their their own nearest fuel depots. Then again their whole justification for the war is nonsense so who knows...

[husaberg]

That has been suggested as a possibility. In Ukraine the Russians have been experiencing fuel shortages and have targeted Ukrainian fuel depots, so they couldn't use those even if they weren't going backwards. It would be odd behaviour to destroy one of their their own nearest fuel depots. Then again their whole justification for the war is nonsense so who knows...

The way i see it Putins a desperate despot, i don't believe he is not above using tactical nukes to win.