Poor police have hands tied again

[R650R]

Last nights news mini scandal about police allegedly unlawfully taking random snaps of suspicious characters.
What gets me is most of those complaining will likely have fakebook, Gmail, TikTok etc and many will have new generation smart tv. And in the terms and conditions you’ve signed over more rights to your data than the police have.... over to private international business cartels.
It’s so silly as they could legally make a written note of a suspicious persons description for future reference but taking a photo is offensive.
All they are doing is working smarter with digital technology. How is it different from the old days of one cop saying to another hey keep an eye out for that shady character drives an FJ Holden with mismatch panels.
This all clashes with the new smart cameras that will take photos of you using phone.
What’s next will stopping someone and asking them what they’ve been up to today be offensive.

[pete376403]

What’s next will stopping someone and asking them what they’ve been up to today be offensive.

To some sections of the community it already is.

[JimO]

racial profiling mainly because one race seems to be doing all the criminal stuff, perhaps that race should turn its outrage against the shitheads in their midst

[R650R]

racial profiling mainly because one race seems to be doing all the criminal stuff, perhaps that race should turn its outrage against the shitheads in their midst

It’s not all it’s only about 50% going by prison stats. I searched that to see if the others 50% could claim profiling as well assuming Europeans (38% of imprisoned) would be much lower. However a quick look says it’s likely the photo shoots prob mirror prison pop stats.

If one stops to think it would be counter productive for cops to photograph any non suspicious persons. You’d very quickly end up with a meaningless stack of images with no context. Eg I’ll go on road trip take huge bunch of photos and unless you use them soon or name properly you end up forgetting what you have in library.
I’m sure of the 6000 photos many are ones that were taken for a good reason at time then forgotten about.

If you do the maths on how many cops we have and how many people they interact with daily I’m surprised number is not higher.

[pritch]

It’s not all it’s only about 50% going by prison stats.

So 12% of the population comprise 50% of the prison population? Hmmmm. Jim has a point but the courts do not treat everyone equally. I recall a Cabinet Minister's son who stole a Ministerial limousine then crashed it. As useless a driver as he was a thief. He got diversion. I don't read too many stories about Maori kids getting diversion.

If a parent can pay a lawyer the outcome will generally be different to that for someone represented by legal aid. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

[R650R]

So 12% of the population comprise 50% of the prison population? Hmmmm. Jim has a point but the courts do not treat everyone equally. I recall a Cabinet Minister's son who stole a Ministerial limousine then crashed it. As useless a driver as he was a thief. He got diversion. I don't read too many stories about Maori kids getting diversion.

If a parent can pay a lawyer the outcome will generally be different to that for someone represented by legal aid. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

Never mind lawyer part.... regardless of race you now get a discount on sentence if you had tough upbringing etc

That really gets me someone will have bashed a random stranger then get a discount cause daddy used to bash them as kid etc.... it’s like flybuys points and reverse of the three strikes principle.

I still say when it comes to equality the police need to be targeting women offenders more. Women are under represented in prison population. Men are imprisoned at a disproportionate rate due to systemic bias ;)

[pritch]

Never mind lawyer part.... regardless of race you now get a discount on sentence if you had tough upbringing etc

That really gets me someone will have bashed a random stranger then get a discount cause daddy used to bash them as kid etc.... it’s like flybuys points and reverse of the three strikes principle.



That's missing the point a bit. If dads got cash there won't even be a prison sentence to discount.

[R650R]

Woooop woooop dats da sound of the police....

Police pursuits are back baby!!!! Release the Kraken screamed Jacinda over the deafening roar of protesting Indian dairy owners.

Some posters on here maintain that NZ is such a safe crime free country... seems the PM disagrees, finally letting our police be police again


https://youtu.be/bkmf9_pe4d4

[sugilite]

And there has already been a death right here in my neighborhood from a police pursuit. I'm not saying the police should not chase, but damn, that did not take long. :no:

[JimO]

And there has already been a death right here in my neighborhood from a police pursuit. I'm not saying the police should not chase, but damn, that did not take long. :no:
hopefully it was the offender who died

[TheDemonLord]

And there has already been a death right here in my neighborhood from a police pursuit. I'm not saying the police should not chase, but damn, that did not take long. :no:

Police Chases really do drive home the moral conundrum:

Do we risk life and limb in the immediate future or do we risk greater life and limb in the long term?

I tend towards the long term view, but that is not to say that the Police always get it right.

[sugilite]

hopefully it was the offender who died
Yes, if course it was. The deceased was a fellow motorcyclist. With your hope being fulfilled, does it bring you contentment?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300756236/motorcyclist-dies-in-crash-after-fleeing-police-hitting-ute-in-auckland


Police Chases really do drive home the moral conundrum:

Do we risk life and limb in the immediate future or do we risk greater life and limb in the long term?

I tend towards the long term view, but that is not to say that the Police always get it right.
I 100% agree. There is no clear answer for this.

[pete376403]

Yes, if course it was. The deceased was a fellow motorcyclist. With your hope being fulfilled, does it bring you contentment?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300756236/motorcyclist-dies-in-crash-after-fleeing-police-hitting-ute-in-auckland

Not really my fellow, any more than car drivers are (I drive a car, too)

As far as I am concerned, he chose the actions that resulted in his death, regardless of the means of doing so. Doesn't bring contentment, just acknowledgement that, usually, we reap what we sow.

[R650R]

Tragic that person is dead and innocents seriously injured. Although the Internet crash investigation team would like to somehow blame the police some pertinent thoughts.

1) Police abandoned the pursuit
2) we don’t know if the standard of riding before the pursuit and at the time of crash are same or different.
3) we don’t know if it was a dealer on a p-rod or a young fella making a bad decision.
4) to Bec signalled to stop by police you must’ve first commit an act that’s warrants their immediate action (they are busy these days)
5)to not be signalled by police to stop; registers and WOF your vehicle, don’t drive like an idiot, don’t Bec involved in activities or relationships that bring you to police attention...

[JimO]

Yes, if course it was. The deceased was a fellow motorcyclist. With your hope being fulfilled, does it bring you contentment?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300756236/motorcyclist-dies-in-crash-after-fleeing-police-hitting-ute-in-auckland


I 100% agree. There is no clear answer for this.
play stupid games win stupid prizes

[Hoonicorn]

I heard some cops enjoy getting to drive fast. That means there is a possibility the police driver will get caught up in the excitement of the chase - the same is true for the criminals who get a thrill from escaping the police like they're playing Grand Theft Auto.

If it's a serious crime, then an attempt should be made to catch them in the act. If the police can track them down later or its a minor offence then maybe its not worth the risk of killing innocent people. Speaking of which:

Quote Originally Posted by JimO
hopefully it was the offender who died

Originally Posted by sugilite
Yes, of course it was. The deceased was a fellow motorcyclist. With your hope being fulfilled, does it bring you contentment?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...te-in-auckland (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300756236/motorcyclist-dies-in-crash-after-fleeing-police-hitting-ute-in-auckland)


The alternative is an innocent member of the public being killed. :no:

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132400973/the-moment-police-spiked-and-rammed-runaway-beetle-after-south-island-joyride-involving-three-stolen-cars

While it’s great to see cops being more aggressive clearly some training is required.
The first wagon to close in has two armed officers emerge promptly, sweet but….
The marked car and dog handler close in quickly and officers end up in front of their tooled up mates.
If you watch the Americans do this they surround the vehicle scream at each other about friendly fire then mostly a single officer makes an initial approach to open door etc.

[Grumph]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132400973/the-moment-police-spiked-and-rammed-runaway-beetle-after-south-island-joyride-involving-three-stolen-cars

If you watch the Americans do this they surround the vehicle scream at each other about friendly fire then mostly a single officer makes an initial approach to open door etc.

Is that before or after they've riddled the car and driver with gunfire ?

[onearmedbandit]

If you watch the Americans do this they surround the vehicle scream at each other about friendly fire then mostly a single officer makes an initial approach to open door etc.

Hahaha not on your life, watch some of Donut Operators breakdowns of police shootings, he talks about the pucker factor very often as cops unleash a volley of rounds in the direction of each other.

[Hoonicorn]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132400973/the-moment-police-spiked-and-rammed-runaway-beetle-after-south-island-joyride-involving-three-stolen-cars

While it’s great to see cops being more aggressive clearly some training is required.
The first wagon to close in has two armed officers emerge promptly, sweet but….
The marked car and dog handler close in quickly and officers end up in front of their tooled up mates.
If you watch the Americans do this they surround the vehicle scream at each other about friendly fire then mostly a single officer makes an initial approach to open door etc.

You have to wonder how well-trained most NZ cops are to handle these situations, especially as the politicians flip-flop on how tough the police can handle criminals based on the latest polls.

But it is good to see action done, before the thief/street racer crashes into a family going on holiday.

[pete376403]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132400973/the-moment-police-spiked-and-rammed-runaway-beetle-after-south-island-joyride-involving-three-stolen-cars

While it’s great to see cops being more aggressive clearly some training is required.
The first wagon to close in has two armed officers emerge promptly, sweet but….
The marked car and dog handler close in quickly and officers end up in front of their tooled up mates.
If you watch the Americans do this they surround the vehicle scream at each other about friendly fire then mostly a single officer makes an initial approach to open door etc.

Just like that case in Colorado where the nz boy called for help and was executed

[R650R]

Yes there are often circumstances where you are all right there… but just pointing out basic firearms safety…and highlighting their training budget needs a boost. Trouble is though for effectivectraini g to often take place whatever the organisation you need extra numbers to allow the organisation to function effectively while this is happening.

[Berries]

It was a training session. If they had actually wanted to shoot the dude they had ample opportunity up a steep and narrow side road where he somehow managed to do a three point turn on his rims during the biggest Police chase in years.

They were just holding off until they could get all the cameras in place and arrange the donuts.

The Cook County Assessor is still waiting.

[R650R]

It was a training session. If they had actually wanted to shoot the dude they had ample opportunity up a steep and narrow side road where he somehow managed to do a three point turn on his rims during the biggest Police chase in years.

They were just holding off until they could get all the cameras in place and arrange the donuts.

The Cook County Assessor is still waiting.

Haha good point, that cop they interviewed was just about hyper ventilating with excitement.

[Berries]

I think Tony had been running for the donuts.

[R650R]

An incredible level of detail here with three possible outcomes explored in detail. This company employed by victims family for private lawsuit.
Of relevant interest to above discussion one of cops friendly fire shoots his mate after bullet passes through arm of offender.
And these are lonfons top notch firearms officers. Worth a watch, very interesting stuff revealed. World will be interesting when AI manages this in real time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_xzmOpGypY

[R650R]

This Aussie pursuit is several years old but only now the legal proceedings have finished the media have been given dashcam footage from inside hijacked car taken by machete Weil ding meth addict loser….
This guys actions (and we know there are many more loose in society) clearly define the need for armed police and more practice time on shooting range too.
Good reminder for situational awareness when your at places like service stations and junctions.
Have a mental action plan of what you would do


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LMfUJayKqM&pp=ygUTbmluZSBuZXdzIGF1c3RyYWxpYQ%3D%3D

[R650R]

Time for the gloves to come off.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350382398/pair-sought-after-street-racers-ram-police-patrol-car

Cops called it disgusting behaviour I’d call it attempted murder to reverse at speed towards pedestrians by car with open doors. On the other side of the world that Ute would be riddled with bullets.
The infamous Polk county sheriff was asked recently why they fired 87 bullets at suspect that killed two deputies. He said we only fired .87 times as we ran out of ammo.

[onearmedbandit]

100%. Fuck 'em.

[jellywrestler]

Time for the gloves to come off.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350382398/pair-sought-after-street-racers-ram-police-patrol-car

Cops called it disgusting behaviour I’d call it attempted murder to reverse at speed towards pedestrians by car with open doors. On the other side of the world that Ute would be riddled with bullets.
The infamous Polk county sheriff was asked recently why they fired 87 bullets at suspect that killed two deputies. He said we only fired .87 times as we ran out of ammo.

you can see the cops are throwing a lot at it, they obtained the footage of them at the gas station, that would have taken some resources, that consequences of that are not worth thinking about, especially if it was done in a cycle lane

[Berries]

you can see the cops are throwing a lot at it, they obtained the footage of them at the gas station, that would have taken some resources, that consequences of that are not worth thinking about, especially if it was done in a cycle lane
Shame the CCTV obscured the rego plate. With that info they could have gone to the AA tomorrow morning and looked them up.

[pete376403]

Shame the CCTV obscured the rego plate. With that info they could have gone to the AA tomorrow morning and looked them up.

Gas station CCTV is VERY good at number plates - it's how they get the drive-offs. If the plate was obscured its the TV news protecting someone's privacy

[R650R]

you can see the cops are throwing a lot at it, they obtained the footage of them at the gas station, that would have taken some resources, that consequences of that are not worth thinking about, especially if it was done in a cycle lane

It’s likely one of the units at event was ANPR capable and most of big service stations have ANPR cameras for pay by plate fuel phone apps and for early warning of serial drive off offenders. I’m sure a quick phone call or click of the mouse would have them
Downloading that footage in very short order. The original crime clearly meets threat to life and public safety so no need to much about with court orders.
Never mind cyclists just imagine a tool like this if he road raged against a motorcycle. If they will do that to a cop what would they do to random people.

[jellywrestler]

It’s likely one of the units at event was ANPR capable and most of big service stations have ANPR cameras for pay by plate fuel phone apps and for early warning of serial drive off offenders. I’m sure a quick phone call or click of the mouse would have them
Downloading that footage in very short order. The original crime clearly meets threat to life and public safety so no need to much about with court orders.
Never mind cyclists just imagine a tool like this if he road raged against a motorcycle. If they will do that to a cop what would they do to random people.

interesting, i lived in palmy decades ago when a local cop was attacked in his home at ashurst, and slashed a few times with a knife etc and i think his house was torched too, a targeted attack, it was queens birthday from meory, i have never seen a swarm of cops like then, for several days they were everywhere,


Turned out it was an insurance job and self managed, including the razor blade cuts in his back,


either way, given it was a serious thing directed at the coppers they'll be rolling up their sleeves i'm sure

[jellywrestler]

this crime is moving quite well, now it will be stalled in the court process,


https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350382999/man-charged-freshly-painted-ute-found-after-waikato-boy-racer-police-ramming

[R650R]

Wow no mucking about these days, I wonder why that could be?

Posted on their page 1hr and 5mins after crash

“ One man is due to appear in court following a serious crash in Onekawa this morning.

At around 8.05am, Police were called to the intersection of Taradale Road and Riverbend Road after reports of a vehicle rolling multiple times and colliding with another vehicle.

One person received critical injuries and was transported to hospital.

Police are making enquiries into the circumstance of the crash.

A 31-year-old man is due to appear in Napier District Court on Friday 1 November, facing multiple charges including unlawful taking of a motor vehicle and reckless driving.”