a cautionary tale of internet groups/forums

[dawnrazor]

Hi Everyone,

What follows here is a cautionary tale of internet groups/forums. It is in NO way meant to be a mirrored reflection of KIWIBIKER.CO.NZ, but I think there may be aspects to this story that may have ramifications on us all one day if this forum keeps growing at the rate it appears to be and other forums folks might be involved in and as such it maybe of interest to people here.

Anyway, I work in a sector of the broadcast and television industry, similar to video editing. It involves the use of expensive equipment, both hardware and software based. There are maybe less then 500 companies world wide with this equipment, and in NZ only 4 companies provide this service, so finding people to talk to about experienced problems is difficult. About 14 years ago an American colleague founded an internet group, where all the operators of this equipment could meet and share information, solve problems, complain about shortcomings in the industry and their supplies equipment and software, all in the name of furthering the industry and making life easier for all concerned.

In the early days it was a great success, the sharing of information was partly responsible for raising the bar for the standard of work that was produced, it became de-riguer for anyone in my profession to be on this internet group, and alot of people where able to save alot of time and expense by listening to the experiences of others. But word got out and it grew, the engineers of the related industry joined and added a welcome different slant to the group. Then the bosses of the companies joined, to keep in the loop with emerging technologies. The downside now was as an employee you had to watch what you said and couldn’t be seen to be letting out company secrets. Then the equipment and software supplies joined in, watching for anyone bad mouthing their equipment, and in some cases complaining to their bosses if they thought they had been mistreated, and that's when things went wrong.

After a series of postings recently about a particular manufactures product that did not sing its praises, a legal battle ensued and has resulted in the internet group being closed down. Just in case you think this is an American thing, This internet group was truly global and had been operating and administered from a server right here in New Zealand for the last number of years, so the long arm of the law is indeed far reaching.

As I’ve mentioned, KIWIBIKER is not quite the same, we here can hide behind user names if we want to. Apart from a handful of people, we would walk past a fellow member in the street, and not know we had been chatting with them online an hour before. We also, for the most part, don’t work in motorbike related industries. However their are plenty of folks here that do derive their incomes from the motorbike industry or related industries. And I expect there are plenty of people that log on and never contribute, that probably work higher up the bike industry food chain. As this forum grows and its profile grows, it is not beyond reason that it will take on a more global nature, with more subscribers from overseas. I have already seen two segments in the UK bike press about New Zealand bike stories, that I had seen here first. The internet makes the world a very small place indeed.

As I said at the start its a cautionary tale, its unlikely that something similar would happen here, but who knows what the future will bring. I like this site, I get alot from it and try to add something worthwhile every now and again. I hope it never loses the spirit it currently has, but I think as the corporate world finally gets to grips with the internet, places like this might be forced to change in the future.

So there you go, something for the afternoon as they say.

Cheers all.

[Sniper]

Bugger, but as you said, that is American attitude. If someone doesn't like something, piss off.

[onearmedbandit]

I think Sniper he refered to it being not only an American thing. Next, how effing crazy is it that on a public forum you can't express your opinion on a topic without someone threatening legal action.

[SARGE]

Bugger, but as you said, that is American attitude. If someone doesn't like something, piss off.



yup... thats me..my family... 99% of my friends..my dog..


must be a Yank thing..Waylander.. any thoughts?

[Big Dave]

yup... thats me..my family... 99% of my friends..my dog..


must be a Yank thing..Waylander.. any thoughts?


You do have a reputation that says 'Lawyers at 20 paces' nonetheless. And if you don't like it.....

[dawnrazor]

Bugger, but as you said, that is American attitude. If someone doesn't like something, piss off.

No its not an American thing, thats my point. Its a global thing. This post was not meant to be taken as an attack on any single nation, but prehaps a realisation that the world has gotten alot smaller recently, and NZ is no longer along way from anywhere, thanks to the internet - for good as well as bad.

[Sniper]

The point is, and like I said. If no-one likes my opinions, thats fine, but call a lawer on me cause of it, I will get annoyed. I can't see any self-respecting Kiwi getting upset of spilt milk and claiming legal action because someone hurt their feelings.

Sarge, my apologese, I did not mean ALL Americans.

[SPman]

It may have started as an american thing, but it is now a world wide thing and, its happening here, now!
This site has already had a breif encounter with just this type of mentality!

egocentric arseholes, one and all!

[nudemetalz]

If this is something to do with my recent posting of the product I am getting made for the bike, then I can tell you I am still going through with it despite one or two people who hadn't had such good success. I'm a firm believer of finding things out for myself. If it doesn't pan out, well be my fault, but the manufacturer, upon speaking to him this morning has assured me that I will be completely satisfied and I don't really have a reason to doubt him.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that thread in the first place. Dawnrazor is right, it doesn't do some motorcycle-industry people any good sometimes.

[Colapop]

The point is, and like I said. If no-one likes my opinions, thats fine, but call a lawer on me cause of it, I will get annoyed. I can't see any self-respecting Kiwi getting upset of spilt milk and claiming legal action because someone hurt their feelings.
Sarge, my apologese, I did not mean ALL Americans.

I think the problem is, there are quite a lot fewer self-respecting and more disrespecful kiwis in general. The so-called americanisation of NZ cannot be blamed because it is a reaction to global influences.





Although most Yanks are a-holes and will probably sue me for this comment

[Sniper]

It may have started as an american thing, but it is now a world wide thing and, its happening here, now!
This site has already had a breif encounter with just this type of mentality!


Its farking sad though. The world getting its hackles up because some namby pamby arsehole cries cause his feelings are hurt.

Bring back conscription/drafting, that will shut the bastards up

[Colapop]

Its farking sad though. The world getting its hackles up because some namby pamby arsehole cries cause his feelings are hurt.

Bring back conscription/drafting, that will shut the bastards up

Yeah, often wondered how much good that would do.

That and chucking all the whingers in a really big concrete tank (that they couldn't climb out of) with all the criminal scumbags out there.

[Sniper]

That and chucking all the whingers in a really big concrete tank (that they couldn't climb out of) with all the criminal scumbags out there.

Or just do the sorting procedure.

Put them in a ring with gloves and tell them to beat the shit out of each other. I had many a fun day watching that and I bet my pay that whoever got the shit smacked out of them wouldn't cry to a lawer afterwards.

[dawnrazor]

Just to be absolutely clear here, I haven't posted this as a reaction to any postings made by members of this site. It purely is an example of the type of behavior that is happening to other forums, all be it in this case not so much a public forum, but an industry one. That said as has been noted, this site has already had one episode of a similiar nature.
It also isn't a relflection on kiwis, the fact of the matter is, just because this is called kiwibiker.co.nz makes not a bit of difference as far as the world stage goes.

This is a sucessful website, the bigger it gets the high it raises its head over the parapit, when its up high enough people take notice, set BOTS on it looking for mentions of their products etc (as an example). We daily talk about the products of global companies, thats all I'm saying.

I don't know if we should change anything, I certainly won't be doing anything different unless directed to by the moderators. But I think we should all realise this site may not remain what it is now forever.

If it can happen to a little industry forum of a couple thousand members then who knows...... its just a thought.

[SARGE]

The point is, and like I said. If no-one likes my opinions, thats fine, but call a lawer on me cause of it, I will get annoyed. I can't see any self-respecting Kiwi getting upset of spilt milk and claiming legal action because someone hurt their feelings.

Sarge, my apologese, I did not mean ALL Americans.



i was serious man... most of the close circle i kept iin the States had a FUCK OFF attitude.. men, women..didnt matter..

as far as the lawyers .. i say when the Revolution comes.. we START by killing all of them FIRST...

[justsomeguy]

Just to be absolutely clear here, I haven't posted this as a reaction to any postings made by members of this site. It purely is an example of the type of behavior that is happening to other forums, all be it in this case not so much a public forum, but an industry one. That said as has been noted, this site has already had one episode of a similiar nature.
It also isn't a relflection on kiwis, the fact of the matter is, just because this is called kiwibiker.co.nz makes not a bit of difference as far as the world stage goes.

This is a sucessful website, the bigger it gets the high it raises its head over the parapit, when its up high enough people take notice, set BOTS on it looking for mentions of their products etc (as an example). We daily talk about the products of global companies, thats all I'm saying.

I don't know if we should change anything, I certainly won't be doing anything different unless directed to by the moderators. But I think we should all realise this site may not remain what it is now forever.

If it can happen to a little industry forum of a couple thousand members then who knows...... its just a thought.

Please rest easy DR, you've articulately voiced the very concerns that a few of us have been harbouring for a while.

[Damon]

This kinda thing always makes me laugh, i grew up in a small town where the only thing to do was give each other shit, it was all in good fun but if some one thinks i'm a c*nt because of something i've said or done then i dont cry about it.

People are too soft now days, too caught up in what other people think, rather than working out the problems if they care to, they head straight for the money.

Anyone that cant take a bit of an ego bashing and get back afterwards is an asshole! :shake:

[Waylander]

The point is, and like I said. If no-one likes my opinions, thats fine, but call a lawer on me cause of it, I will get annoyed. I can't see any self-respecting Kiwi getting upset of spilt milk and claiming legal action because someone hurt their feelings.

Sarge, my apologese, I did not mean ALL Americans.
You forget that fucktard down wellington that threatend to sue Spankme becouse of a few red reps he recieved. Happens here to mate so don't generalize.

And Sarge, other than the "Yank" comment since I am not one, yea sounds about right.

[SARGE]

And Sarge, other than the "Yank" comment since I am not one, yea sounds about right.


ok.. "American" then

[justsomeguy]

Anyone that cant take a bit of an ego bashing and get back afterwards is an asshole! :shake:

There's nothing wrong with the assholes..... it's when the assholes cause the nice people to think twice about including others in their events that we quickly start getting groups within groups. Or if they turn out to be rich assholes willing to spend their stinking money to prove a useless point, to stroke their ego........

There are spectacular people here that truly help newbies. Seeing all this bullshit here may make them more selective in their charity- meaning someone will lose out.

[dawnrazor]

This kinda thing always makes me laugh, i grew up in a small town where the only thing to do was give each other shit, it was all in good fun but if some one thinks i'm a c*nt because of something i've said or done then i dont cry about it.

People are too soft now days, too caught up in what other people think, rather than working out the problems if they care to, they head straight for the money.

Anyone that cant take a bit of an ego bashing and get back afterwards is an asshole! :shake:

Well thats one reaction I suppose, I'm not here to judge. Again I'm not bad mouthing anyone here or their opinions, merely relating a story that I feel has some relevence to a website like this as well as others like it.

Personally I couldn't give a toss what people say about this or that, or who pisses off who. But then again i'm not the one who is likely to take offence am I. But a time might come when someone will who is in the position to do something about it, this might have started as a small group, but have you looked at the membership list lately, and also the amount of guests on at any time is alot as well. This is a public forum after all not sitting in the pub with your mates.

[Sniper]

i was serious man... most of the close circle i kept iin the States had a FUCK OFF attitude.. men, women..didnt matter..

as far as the lawyers .. i say when the Revolution comes.. we START by killing all of them FIRST...

Hence the reason I apologise. I stereotyped you and I shouldn't have. I hear what you say about the fucken lawers :bash:

[Sniper]

You forget that fucktard down wellington that threatend to sue Spankme becouse of a few red reps he recieved. Happens here to mate so don't generalize.


I was unaware of that. Give me 5 mins alone with him. I have ways of making him apologise. Fucken arseholes picking on the good guys!

[Macktheknife]

A good point DR, well mentioned.
Speaking of lawyers though.... why dont sharks eat lawyers??




professional courtesy. lol

[mangell6]

Happened to the FZ1 Owners website in the states, it got taken off the air by "lawyers", the administrators contacted Yamaha America direct and asked what the story was. End result was that the lawyers were being 'over-vigorous' and now the site is back online and has huge references absolving Yamaha from any responsibility.

The 'american attitude' of 'sue first, use common sense never' has spread rapidly throughout the world as the globalisation of everything has occured.

Remember that lawyers always win, you always end up paying one of them.

Does the site carry liability insurance, or make legal type statements?

[Sniper]

Happened to the FZ1 Owners website in the states, it got taken off the air by "lawyers", the administrators contacted Yamaha America direct and asked what the story was. End result was that the lawyers were being 'over-vigorous' and now the site is back online and has huge references absolving Yamaha from any responsibility.

The 'american attitude' of 'sue first, use common sense never' has spread rapidly throughout the world as the globalisation of everything has occured.

Remember that lawyers always win, you always end up paying one of them.



Its sad though that people make money off twisting other peoples opinions and make them seem like attacks on a person/organisation/insert other here.

All I can ask is why?

[froggyfrenchman]

I think Sniper he refered to it being not only an American thing. Next, how effing crazy is it that on a public forum you can't express your opinion on a topic without someone threatening legal action.

Yeah... isnt that the wholepointofa place like this?

[Zed]

...Next, how effing crazy is it that on a public forum you can't express your opinion on a topic without someone threatening legal action.That's what happens when money is involved, business! I dunno, SpankMe might welcome more commercial activity around here to boost him out of his "poor, struggling webmaster" status! :bye:

We've talked about these issues on KB before, the dangers some could face by speaking about certain 'things' on a public forum, I really can't see KB under any threat of being closed down though Dawn...food for thought, tks.

[SPman]

as far as the lawyers .. i say when the Revolution comes.. we START by killing all of them FIRST...
Well - that depletes about 25% of the US population............

Can I join in - just for the practice, mind.........

and remember - "The revolution, will not be televised"....

[Waylander]

No. Would mean less for me and Sarge. Can we do loan sharks after that?

[SPman]

Spoilsport!