Nick Ientash The Pace

[jonbuoy]

Hi,

Was wondering if any group rides out there use Nick Ientash's "The Pace" theory. Have never enjoyed group riding as it always seems to turn into a race, with bad decisions made for the wrong reasons. I read about it in his excellent book - Sports Riding Techniques. Was wondering if any groups up Auckland way use this for their rides out? And if so could I join em?

Below is a link to an explanation of The Pace. I think it basically means cutting the straight line speeds down and making the perfect turn in the corners for a bit of fun.

http://www.geocities.com/nakedboysmcclub/article_ridingtechniques.htm

Cheers Jono

[jonbuoy]

He He it shoulda been Nick Ienatsch.

[pritch]

I know it doesn't answer your question but I would recommend the book to anyone interested in sprot bike riding (or even sproty riding?).

[WRT]

You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds

That bit alone rules out a lot of riders. In all seriousness though, I'm down for that. I'm now five years without a ticket (LOL that sounds like an intro to an AA meeting . . . ) and I kind of like it that way. I have to admit to giving the throttle a good twist every now and again (at the right time and place), but for the most part when I'm out on a ride I keep my speeds down the straights as legal as possible. While the acceleration is a buzz, the main reason I'm into bikes are the corners.

Give us a yell next time you head out to practice this "Pace" business, I'm keen . . .

[Motu]

Apart from the not crossing the centreline bit,that sounds like my riding style all the time.I seldom go over 120kph,and I try to keep my pace up - I love SH22 with all it dips and bumps,roadworks and wildlife,my adventure bikes just soak it all up...pace,it's all about pace - I love it..

I used to ride with the Triumph Owners Club,and they would all pass me and leave me for dead,in the corners I would just run them down and go through the pack,then they'd sort me out on the fast bits again.I think this is one of the reasons I hate group rides,I have my own pace and hate deviating from it.

I think it comes from riding some pretty gutless bikes in the past,I had to keep my momenteum up at all costs,don't back off unless you really have to and using the brakes was a sin...I had no straightline speed,so had to keep it up in the corners.

[nudemetalz]

Try racing RS-125's....that sorts out cornering speed technique, 'cause if you ain't got it then you're left behind !!

[oldrider]

I have only ever been able to afford one bike at a time, more so now than ever. The above matches the riding style I try for.
One bike one life one passenger but I still get tempted to do something silly every now and then. Cheers John.

[justsomeguy]

I think it comes from riding some pretty gutless bikes in the past,I had to keep my momenteum up at all costs,don't back off unless you really have to and using the brakes was a sin...I had no straightline speed,so had to keep it up in the corners.

I know I'll probably get clobbered for this - But I'm tempted to disconnect my front brakes and go for a ride one day.

When I crashed I had no rear brakes as I had no rear foot bracket - and that made me ride soo much smoother in the weeks after.....

Is there a way to quickly disengage the front brakes without having to go through the whole bleeding process??

[Will]

I know I'll probably get clobbered for this - But I'm tempted to disconnect my front brakes and go for a ride one day.

When I crashed I had no rear brakes as I had no rear foot bracket - and that made me ride soo much smoother in the weeks after.....

Is there a way to quickly disengage the front brakes without having to go through the whole bleeding process??


Disengage your brain... did you say?:bash:

You ride a sprotbike and you said that you had no rear brake and how it made you ride smoother.
That's what sprotbikes are like.
You do not use a rear brake like you might on a cruiser.
But you certainly use the front brake.

[justsomeguy]

Disengage your brain... did you say?:bash:

You ride a sprotbike and you said that you had no rear brake and how it made you ride smoother.
That's what sprotbikes are like.
You do not use a rear brake like you might on a cruiser.
But you certainly use the front brake.

I know that - I use the rear brake a lot while downshifting and blipping the throttle......... and sometimes use the rear brake only while riding in the city - I'm talking about minor drops in speed here.

It would be cool to disengage the front brake and do some slow riding drills in a parking lot.

I didn't mean disengage the front and go for a hoon down The Dwive :love:

[kro]

I used to ride with Club 42, Peter Wilmott who used to own Greenlane Suzuki started it, and it was magic, because the condition of entry was that no bastard was allowed to do crazy shit, so it was invite only, and we seldom busted the 120 mark, and mostly cruised the speed limit, and enjoyed the ride, rather than having it all flash by in an instant of blurry scenery and adrenaline.

[justsomeguy]

I used to ride with Club 42, Peter Wilmott who used to own Greenlane Suzuki started it, and it was magic, because the condition of entry was that no bastard was allowed to do crazy shit, so it was invite only, and we seldom busted the 120 mark, and mostly cruised the speed limit, and enjoyed the ride, rather than having it all flash by in an instant of blurry scenery and adrenaline.

So it was only the two of you then ??:lol:

[Ixion]

..
I think it comes from riding some pretty gutless bikes in the past,I had to keep my momenteum up at all costs,don't back off unless you really have to and using the brakes was a sin...I had no straightline speed,so had to keep it up in the corners.


Hmmph , well if we're talking Beeza Bantams, or just about any pre 60's Briddish iron, there was nothing sinful about using the brakes. Pointless, ineffectual waste of time, to be sure, but sinful implies that they actually DID something. I never got into the habit of using them, it achieved so little. And I still very rarely use brakes on a four stroke.

[Mr Skid]

I'm tempted to disconnect my front brakes and go for a ride one day.That's a great idea. I think you should do it. I'm sure you will learn heaps. :2thumbsup

[kerryg]

I don't get it. The Pace is about what? Not riding too fast (OK)? Not braking too late when entering a corner (OK?).

Reminds me of something I heard the other day. Did you know that a traffic engineer called Barnes "invented" the pedestrian crossing where pedestrians all cross simultaneously, including diagonally, (like the intersection at the corner of Queen and Victoria Sts in Auckland for the Dorklanders among us). His "invention" was nick-named the "Barnes dance". I heard that and I thought ...WTF? The idea of everybody crossing from all directions at once was INVENTED by someone?? OK then. I invented falling over. I mean, did the guy go to university and all, and all he came up with was that?

Can the central principle(s) of the Pace be summarised for me in no more than few sentences please??...I guess I'm missing something here.

[2_SL0]

I don't get it. The Pace is about what? Not riding too fast (OK)? Not braking too late when entering a corner (OK?).

Reminds me of something I heard the other day. Did you know that a traffic engineer called Barnes "invented" the pedestrian crossing where pedestrians all cross simultaneously, including diagonally, (like the intersection at the corner of Queen and Victoria Sts in Auckland for the Dorklanders among us). His "invention" was nick-named the "Barnes dance". I heard that and I thought ...WTF? The idea of everybody crossing from all directions at once was INVENTED by someone?? OK then. I invented falling over. I mean, did the guy go to university and all, and all he came up with was that?

Can the central principle(s) of the Pace be summarised for me in no more than few sentences please??...I guess I'm missing something here.


Just disconnect your front brakes and go for a spin. See what sorta 'pace' you get up to. :rolleyes:

[kerryg]

Just disconnect your front brakes and go for a spin. See what sorta 'pace' you get up to. :rolleyes:


Yeah yeah I get that. It comes back to not riding too fast and not braking too late. I'm not saying there's no merit in what he says, not at all. I'm saying it's ..well...kinda obvious, if that's all there is to it

[SlowHand]

Why stop at disconnecting? Remove the whole set up - make it lighter so you can go faster. Makes perfect sense to me.

[WRT]

WTF - disconnect your front brake?? For god's sake, its a f'ing lever! If you dont want to use it, DONT PULL THE LEVER!!!

Bloody hell, the self control of the youth of today . . .

[tracyprier]

Have read that book a while back, plenty of good stuff in it including the "pace" idea.

New Zealand is such a beautiful country with world class scenery. I personally don't see the point in always roaring past it all in a mad blur at warp factor 8... yes, yes so I'm an old Nana, sue me ;)

[Sketchy_Racer]

when im out riding with my mates, (im on a SR250 BTW) and the rest are on faster newer bikes, i love the felling when thay think they are all cool and nail it past me down the strights,...... but then i completly obliterate them on the corners. Yes i did manage to out corner my friend and he was on a CBR250!!! but i hate it when they think they are all cool nailing it down the straights..... i mean, wheres the skill in pulling a throttle open???

so as like many, i prefer to ride alone, or ride with friends that ride like i do... steady down the straights, peg scraping in the corners :niceone:

[Motu]

It's kinda like ''smooth'',but much faster.Good with an adventure bike because you hardly have to back off for any sort of road hazzards,you just fly over bumps and slips,road works and pea gravel.

You want to ride with no brakes try flattrack or speedway - come into a corner as fast as you can and lay it down....no back up....but you can back it in.

[jonbuoy]

OK sounds like a few are keen to try - hopefully maybe get some more people into it. It doesn't mean riding like a Nana, but as a lot of the 250 guys were saying it takes a lot of work/skill to keep up with higher power bikes - they can just twist the throttle to make up for a botched corner entry/exit.

I have tried it by myself a few times, trying to set myself a MAX speed of 120-130 KM's - (slapped wrist as opposed to handcuffs by the cops - i'm up to 75 points now) And slowing down as little as possible on the corners - don't think I'll be taking off my brake lever tho' :shifty: . This works really well on long journeys, you don't have to shit urself everytime you see a newish Holden coming at you, you can relax a bit more. If you find the right roads to go with it a 130KMH is plenty fast enough!

[jonbuoy]

Sweet, Hopefully in the new year then!

[justsomeguy]

To clarify - I said a short ride to a parking lot and then do some practice.......

WRT - it's not the same thing - doing it like that.....

Kawagreen - that's the idea - to keep the speed low and use engine braking, etc......

[James Deuce]

I read "The Pace" in the early '90s, and it stuck with me in all sorts of ways. Fundamentally it's about not using your full capability all the time, particuarly when riding in a group. The article was originally inspired by the increasing insurance premiums of "Motorcyclist" magazine, back when Ienatsch was a staff journo there. The competitive urge was causing a heap of accidents on their test rides, so "The Pace" was the magazine crew's response to their crisis.

It's just one style of group riding, and I think it works best when you have a group who know each other really well. I've had a couple of rides in the last few months with people like VTWIN and Flying Finn that have felt exactly as described in the pace. By no means a slow ride, but neither does it leave tyres and brakes frazzled and steaming, or give the rider a stress headache.

It's interesting that the article follows up with vanishing point technique - I don't agree with a strict adherence to the idea, because it reduces your sightline to concentrating on the type of VP you are approaching, and you may miss other visual clues as a result.

[SuperDave]

Yeah I agree with this - it's the way that I naturally ride, probably a result of riding an FXR150 for a year before the ZXR. I've always disliked late hard braking as I find that it makes the ride much less smooth and enjoyable. I've always prefered using my gears to slow me down and then accelerating moderately out a corner.

[pritch]

“The most common solo street bike crash comes from too much speed entering a corner, and a ton of straightaway speed is usually the reason the entrance gets blown. Many riders learn how to accelerate aggressively but their braking and trail braking techniques aren't up to par, resulting in a ruined disastrous corner entrance.

The rhythm that Mitch and I had fallen into was this: cool on the straights and fun in the corners.”

<snip>

“Another reason for these slower speeds was our ticket situation which wasn't that admirable at the time. Think about it: Big speed usually happens in a straight line, and the Police have figured that out. Our new pace took away that straight-line throttle-happiness and saved the fun for the corners, with occasional full throttle blasts up freeway on-ramps. After all straight line speed is easy and boring compared to a perfectly clipped apex.”

Sport Riding Techniques – Nick Ienatsch – David Bull Publishing - 2003

Trypos and ommisions all my own work :whistle:

[DingDong]

This is an article written by Nick Ienatsch in 1993, you may have read it... but if you havent, do so...
It's about safe group riding at speed "the pace" , sound stupid? it's not:not:

[James Deuce]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=21695&highlight=The+Pace

[DingDong]

Whoops...:second: but still a good read

[2much]

Damn that's long, but as you say, a good read.

[James Deuce]

No whoops at all Wayne. I wanted to merge the threads but don't have the rights in either of those forums to do so (hint, hint). Should be a compulsory read in my book.

[kiwifruit]

good read, a must for n00bs!
i agree with all but one statement:

"I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it is that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game, a smooth forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires contact patches through a rigid sport-bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what the bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street."

Id MUCH rather thrash around a track all day!!!!!!!
I guess im still "young".

just my 0.02c :D

[merv]

Is there a way to quickly disengage the front brakes without having to go through the whole bleeding process??

Take the brake lever off at the handlebar. However, what do you do if you need to stop in a hurry? As someone else said though why not just don't pull on the lever?