Where did the prejudice begin? [Archive]

kro

23rd January 2006, 05:40

I've often wondered what the rationale is behind the staunch "no Japanese bikes allowed" group of riders, frequently seen on Hogs, Beemers, and Various Italian and Brit machinery.
If you are one of these people, and are reading this, I make no apologies, just get over it.

My question is where and why did this form of road based racism originate?. I call it racism, because it can't possibly be about the quality and/or reliability of the bike itself, as in my personal experience, the Japanese win this hands down every time.
Is it because the Japanese were active agressors in the war?...... so were the Germans, yet you can ride a beemer in a group of harleys, and not get beaten to a pulp, and have ya bike set on fire.

Where did this all come from?, what makes a man/woman deluded enough to want to limit their choice of rides to the most expensive, and sometimes unreliable makes?. A close personal friend of mine was an active Motorcycle gang member, and was a staunch Harley only advocate. When he got shafted by the gang, he quit them, and confided in me that he was going to do something he always wanted to, and buy a GSXR750, and go "have some fun in the hills"

Any ideas who/why/where/what started this?, Ive often hypothesised, but would be keen to hear others ideas.

buellbabe

23rd January 2006, 06:08

Yep its a mystery... I've ridden HDs for yrs and seen alot of that kind of snobbery, its one of my pet hates. Now I have seen the light and ride a Buell I find that I get snobbed by some HD riders who for some strange reason think that their shit doesn't stink... well it does!
Personally I am of the view that so long as it has 2 wheels and an engine its OK by me.
Actually things aren't as bad as they used to be and I reckon Buell has done alot to break down that "cruiser-V-cafe racer" mindset. Bad-ass Biker blokes that secretly wanted to get off the HOG could jump on a Buell and still "technically-speaking" be riding a Harley since Harley own Buell... and from there it was an easy step to branch out further...Now when I frequent the Puhoi ( for those down Sth thats a re-nown Biker pub nth of Auck ) there is a great mixture of various bike brands and people and no-one gives a shit what you ride! They are more interested in how far you wheel-stand down the road!!!
JUST DO IT!!

Motu

23rd January 2006, 06:46

For a start,it's not a Harley thing,there were no Harley Davidsons sold in New Zealand when this thinking came about in the late 60s,early 70s,there were also no,um..''sects'' or whatever,like sportsbike,cruiser etc - you rode a bike,it was most likely British and that was that.Then the Japanese came and broke it all up,there was some resentment.

We were not that long out of the 2nd World War,and you still came across guys who had fought the Japanese,or the Germans for that matter,I remember working with mechanics who wouldn't buy German tools,the Japanese didn't even make tools back then.Japanese products were very low quality,if you bought something Made in Japan it was sure to break...and I remember at school we were told never to buy Japanese pencils because the lead alway broke,and it was true.There was further resentment because the Japanese refused to recognise Patents and copywrites,they copied Western products and floaded ther market with poor quality cheap look alikes.There was a fair bit of resentment which got rather polarised with motorcycles.

Kinda of funny when you see the Japanese now getting upset with China not recognising Patents and flooding the market with cheap low quality copies of their products.Some members of this site are heaping scorn upon mini choppers from China - some things never change.

Skyryder

23rd January 2006, 06:46

Not realy sure. The first I came across this was in the early sixties with the British bike here. Basicly if you rode a bike it was a Brit bike. Then the Japanese bike started to dominate. This attitude is bad in the states. They have parking for the Harleys out front and all other bikes are out the back. Personally I'd ride with a pushbike if they could keep up.

Skyryder

Dafe

23rd January 2006, 06:56

Because if you put most Hog Riders on a late model 1000, they'll either be dead a few corners later or they'll be in a tangled mess after another sport bike rider has tail ended them after not expecting them to virtually come to a crawl around a corner.

However, Put a sportbike rider on a Harley and they'll quickly become bored.

About 4 weeks ago, all the Wellington crew pulled up at our usual pub, we were dismounting and parking up the bikes and this guy with his family in the car, rolls past staring and then he yells out - Get a real bike! Buy a Harley, not that cheap Japanese crap! Nothing more said as he drives off in his Mitsubishi!

Rashika

23rd January 2006, 07:17

Because if you put most Hog Riders on a late model 1000, they'll either be dead a few corners later or they'll be in a tangled mess after another sport bike rider has tail ended them after not expecting them to virtually come to a crawl around a corner.!
of course! that explains why all the litre bikes DONT get crashed around here :laugh:

However, Put a sportbike rider on a Harley and they'll quickly become bored.

I think everyone is different, eh...
Just as well, hate to be one of the clones! :banana:

scumdog

23rd January 2006, 07:32

'Cos WE'RE better, our BIKES are better and the rest of you suck big-time!!!:2guns: :nya:

Seriously? Don't know, never had that problem, ride with a shit-load of others on a shit-load of 'other' makes, we all give shit to each other about each others choice of bike ( though I'm sure i get most of the shit and I ride a H-D, what went wrong with the plot that H-D riders GIVE shit, not receive it???:weird:

ManDownUnder

23rd January 2006, 07:47

A variety of racing classes have historically been established to enable competitive racing with other on like machines.

BEARS is an example that fits this conversation nicely. No Japs allowed.

No biggy - it's the same kind of distinction they put on the V8 series if your think about it (no V6's allowed... or V12s)

As for the whole "I hate Jap bikes" thing, or "I hate HOGS" or... yaaaa it's personal preference possibly combined or reinforced by wanting to sound like your mates.

I personally don't like cruisers... not enough to want to ride one anyway. But hell - if you do, and you like 'em - go for it. I'll take the piss out of cruiser riders anyday, but only because I expect them to do the same for me.

A genuine and generalised "hatred" of one form of bike over another is just small thinking.

Bugger - another 2c gone...

merv

23rd January 2006, 08:26

The fact the Japanese bikes started selling well in the 60's and started annihilating the British industry didn't help either, let alone success on the track e.g. Mike Hailwood at the Isle of Man 1961. You know how it is this is standard law of the jungle stuff - if we aren't top dog we start running the other person down like we hate them (if you are a confident recipient of this you say it is caused by their jealousy and you don't give a shit). When its culture against culture then its racism.

However, I think there is hope. Whether its the draconian PC laws or its a different breed of rider out there that's bringing us all together I don't know, but this summer on the road I must say I have never seen the Harley boys more friendly - hell they even wave at me if I'm on one of the dirt bikes. Jap riders can be accused of being snobs in that regard as many ignore the dirt bike fraternity - like does that mean they "know" we don't own a road bike? - yeah right!!

This forum is going some way towards uniting at least a few thousand of us so that's a start.

As for bikes I like mine with the right feel, like my women, so I have been totally comfortable with Jappas and once you are used to them everything else looks weird with dicky controls and stuff like that. It will look the same from the other side.

However, its two wheels that I enjoy and I will ride anything as the chance presents itself, even vintage stuff, it just doesn't mean I'll race out and buy them.

I have the same feeling about cars. All this V8 racing is the rave now (same motivation - anti Jap - Godzilla was too good), but every time I drive a rear drive Aussie tank I think WTF. The bloody great transmission hump pushes your feet offset to the right and you can't even sit straight on in the car with so little footwell space - and as for the controls, they are usually pretty poor. Had a rental Holden last year that we are driving along in thinking, as we came up behid a smelly stock truck, how do you put this on recirc? - well bugger me the symbol for that was hidden behind the pointer on the knob when it was on another setting and it took a while to discover that. I'm a short guy and I just don't fit those cars (Holden or Ford) like I would like to if I were to buy one.

So I'm not prejudiced, but I sure as hell know what I like.

scumdog

23rd January 2006, 08:35

This forum is going some way towards uniting at least a few thousand of us so that's a start.

but every time I drive a rear drive Aussie tank I think WTF. The bloody great transmission hump pushes your feet offset to the right and you can't even sit straight on in the car with so little footwell space - and as for the controls, they are usually pretty poor..

So I'm not prejudiced, but I sure as hell know what I like.

Drove a Subaru 'work' car, drivers foot-well felt like it was designed by one of those old Chinese women with the bound -up small feet, would possibly suit a person of my size who had only one foot..

(When front wheel drive cars first came out the big 'thing' was a flatter floor/more foot room - now they have just as big a hump as any rear-wheel drive, what happened??)

Not for this boy but if they turn your crank then go for it - I'm not going to bag your choice of cage.

A lot of 'bagging' seems to come from younger ones - maybe we get more tollerant as we get older??

R1madness

23rd January 2006, 08:51

Actually i now find its a case of the jap bike riders slagging off the hogs/brits etc so much its no wonder they dont bother talking to us. I have owned a few HDs over the years and the sport bikers just do the snob thing. They waved to me if i had my 2piece on and i was on my sports bike but if i was in my blacks and on my HOG its snob city.
People dont understand what they dont know. Try a HOG, have a laugh, Its not going to suddenly make ya grow a beard and grow 3 inches in the arms. Sure it will be slow but i bet you never seen so many sparks around a round about.
All bikes are fun, you just got to find out.

Oscar

23rd January 2006, 09:00

Indiana_Jones

23rd January 2006, 09:03

The haterid stems from the Clone wars....

-Indy

rasty

23rd January 2006, 09:12

I do notice that lot of Harley riders don't bother waving or even acknowleding a wave. Is it a Harley thing or maybe just that a lot of new "old in age but first bike" riders choose a Harley without knowing about or just not really understanding the whole bike bit? I get sick of mates (and others) when they know I have another bike saying "Is it a Harley" and then looking disappointed when I tell them no.

Oscar

23rd January 2006, 09:51

buellbabe

23rd January 2006, 09:54

The best reason I've heard for Harley riders not waving is that they're too scared to take one hand off the bars...

Yeah thats a REALLY OLD joke but in the case of some of those old models it really was vibrating to the point of waving being dangerous!
I don't care, I have ALWAYS either nodded or waved to ANY bike, its about 'brotherhood/sisterhood':2thumbsup :grouphug:

Matt Bleck

23rd January 2006, 10:01

I'd have to say that I think it's getting better. I'm starting to get more wave's back from harley riders. Except for the real bad arse's with patches and German helmets!!

Blackbuell

23rd January 2006, 10:05

I rode back from up north last night saw plenty of bikes,about 6 harleys not one wave,all the other bikes waved,i,m on half a harley,i still wave.:laugh:

idb

23rd January 2006, 10:07

It simply comes from people that know f*ck all about bikes.
They only ride to pose and their bike is a fashion accessory.

On the other hand, there's no greater fun to be had than winding each other up about your ride, as long as you're all laughing with me, as I'm sure you are!

buellbabe

23rd January 2006, 10:08

I rode back from up north last night saw plenty of bikes,about 6 harleys not one wave,all the other bikes waved,i,m on half a harley,i still wave.:laugh:

half a Harley?? Yr on 100% Bitchin'Buell BE PROUD!:headbang:

SPORK

23rd January 2006, 10:15

All you Buell riding, harley defending people, you don't need to! I would hardly class a Buell as a Harley anyday.

Btw, doesn't anyone feel bad for ol' Mr Davidson? No-one calls an H-D a Davidson...

buellbabe

23rd January 2006, 10:40

Ironically the Pres is Willie G Davidson...

scumdog

23rd January 2006, 11:04

The best reason I've heard for Harley riders not waving is that they're too scared to take one hand off the bars...

Well it's tough going eating an ice-cream, riding AND waving all at the same time - not just on Harleys:motu:

SPORK

23rd January 2006, 11:06

Ironically the Pres is Willie G Davidson...
I doubt it's ironic...

Rashika

23rd January 2006, 14:03

half a Harley?? Yr on 100% Bitchin'Buell BE PROUD!:headbang:
yeah!:2thumbsup :2thumbsup :2thumbsup

Lou Girardin

23rd January 2006, 15:14

In the 60's there was still a lot of people who remembered the war and the atrocities the Japs committed. (and still haven't apologised for)
The old diggers wouldn't touch Jap goods if the lives depended on it.
Now we have no option.

Motu

23rd January 2006, 16:29

Jap Crap was quite a valid saying,the quality was worse than what we see from China now.It was an American who put the Japanese on the right track,coaching them to focus on quality rather than volume.He tried to preach his methods to the Yanks,but they ignored him....the Japanese didn't.

Motorcycles were one of the first Japanese products that we saw where there was real quality...I remember as a young teen ogling at those beautiful blue and chrome Yamaha 80s and 100s,but they were tiddlers and scorned by real bikers,just a kids bike.The bigger Jap bikes came with a rush,some people just didn't want to change.

I was sort of in both camps,I rode British bikes and was well into the scene,but I also bought my first Japanese dirt bike new in 1971....I led a traitorous double life.I feel kinda sad when I see riders hide bound and blinded by image,whether it's the ''Live to Ride'' or ''I'm a racer really'' type....both a narrow outlook on bikes.

hXc

23rd January 2006, 16:49

He tried to preach his methods to the Yanks,but they ignored him....the Japanese didn't.

Not meaning to offend any Americans/Yanks here but...

That's bloody typical of the Yanks. The "I know better" attitude. When will they learn that they know stuff all? Most vehicles that come out of America are big and heavy and in the rest of the world, it's not really necessary.

My mum drives a Holden V6 station wagon - the sole reason being that it's big enough to carry my drumkit. If I wasn't a drummer then she'd want something smaller, flash and probably sporty (Her dream car being a SAAB of some sort)

No I don't have any problem with Harley's or cruisers or any bike for that matter. I'm with other people here saying that as long as it's got 2 wheels and an engine...who cares!!! Yes I bag off about other makes of bikes etc but in all honesty - I ain't being serious. Cruiser's, Brit bikes and Italian bikes aren't my thing but if they're yours then go for it. I like my Jap bikes and I'm proud of that fact.

Motu

23rd January 2006, 16:57

Still plenty of Yank Tanks from the 30s in daily use,try that with a Corolla in 60 yrs time.The Americans and British totally lost the plot in the 70s...lots of reasons for that,but they have never really got their act together since.

TwoSeven

23rd January 2006, 17:17

I've never thought it was about the bikes. I think its the more money someone spends on their machine, the more of an anal retentive they are. You ask any scooter rider how many waves they get from gsxr1k owners for example :)

DingDong

23rd January 2006, 17:46

I enjoy the odd squirt on a harley or brit bike, they sound like they're fast... the only reason I dont have one is reliability/comfort/rideabilty issues.

I pretty sure my bike will start and run good day after day after day and thats it for me.

I dont hate... I just ride:yes:

yungatart

23rd January 2006, 17:49

I haven't had any problems-pulled in to the Bayview Hotel carpark and parked my little cruiser right up by the Duc's,MSTRS parked his GXXER next to it, then a couple of HD's parked next to him- the topic of conversation among all these bikers- my L plate! You just have to treat them all with respect-after all we are all people , aren't we?

Timber020

23rd January 2006, 18:07

I did tauranga to wellington today (my ass is still aching) on the RF and got waves from everything from goldwings to harleys to dukes.

Naturally all of society segments itself. Boy racers are split between the bling and bang crew, 4wd guys have the suzuki, landrover and cruiser groups. Even loggers laugh at each other for running husky or stihl saws. And south africa had apartheid.

Its all find. Hope I didnt use any words to long for the HOG guys.

SlashWylde

23rd January 2006, 18:13

Kornholio

23rd January 2006, 18:19

If HD bring out something that will out-perform, out-handle be more comfy than my Gixxer Ill buy one.... until then eat my flying bits of rubber that get shredded off the back wheel

On a side note some of my best friends have Harleys, Triumphs, Nortons and old style Dukes and Guzzis and they get repectaHHH from me as I watch the sparks fly and the pegs and side covers scrape the road and get on the piss afterwards :D

kro

23rd January 2006, 18:39

Yer, its a funny old thing. Some of the guys I used to ride with used to go Harley trawling, which simply put was the act of finding a group of HD riders, preferably patched, and pacing them until the tail rider got pissed off and attempted something stupid, which was always.
Invariably the HD riders would all pull over, or reduce speed in an attempt to get the guys to overtake, then "give chase". This lasted as long as the novelty allowed, until boredom set in, and they rolled on in top gear, and took off.

This sort of shenanigans wouldnt have helped, but I guess thats how it is.

I am amused at the black power, and mongrel mob style of HD riders, who are sitting in bikes made by a country with a long tradition of racist and segregated society, and also the ones on Beemers made by the country who attemtped a global ethnic cleansing excercise, it just seems bitterly ironic to me I guess.

Any how, thanks for the opinions, there's some good stuff in here.

avgas

23rd January 2006, 18:50

Why is there prejeduce anywhere? Becuase of egos.
I find im in a no win situation most times. People didnt like my car cos it was a mitsi, didnt like my bike cos it was a honda etc.
Had alsorts come up and talk to me when i had the GB - some were like "Wow, what a lovely bike - i bet you look after her". Others were like - "Get a bonnie"....to which i replied "Nah thats allright - the Daytona is enough Triumph for me right now"....or "Fuck off - i like my garage floor concrete grey not black".
Also i have found people being 'anti-2strokes' or 'anti-single cylinders'. Why - i hate the whizz of a ILF. But they are fantastic motors all the same.
Stop the hatred people.

jeff

23rd January 2006, 19:35

It would be interesting to see how the Harleys run if you took the jap parts off them i.e. carbs and forks etc.

Chrissie and Jeff:woohoo:

kro

23rd January 2006, 20:58

Hehe, like the Matchless G80's in the late 80's, Rotax engine, Jap ignition, hehe, not a great deal of Brit badness there after it was stripped down. They were a cool bike though.

SlashWylde

23rd January 2006, 21:31

Humans are an inherently xenophobic and prejudicial species, it's how we survive. I'm not saying it's smart or enklightened but htat's just the way it is.

Ya aint never gonna change it. So if some one gives you shit about your choice of car, bike, hair style, partner, beer, nail polish colour... hwat do you do? Just smile, raise your middle finger and say have a nice day muthafucker.

P.S. typing wh8lst drunk is hard. Fun, but hard.

Kornholio

23rd January 2006, 21:54

Thats like Henry Ford saying "Fuck that Chevrolet shit..."

scumdog

24th January 2006, 07:45

Its all find. Hope I didnt use any words to long for the HOG guys.

I think you meant "It's all fine. Hope I didn't use any words too long for the HOG guys"

We might be slow but we know our grammar and spelling!:shake: :rofl:

scumdog

24th January 2006, 07:47

Lias

24th January 2006, 08:28

Thats like Henry Ford saying "Fuck that Chevrolet shit..."
I think you'll find that Henry Ford actually said "They are what is called the International Jew -- German Jews, French Jews, English Jews, American Jews. I believe that in all these countries except our own the Jewish financier is supreme... Here, the Jew is a threat."

As for me, I'm not inherently opposed to jappers, but I prefer BEAR type bikes for several reasons. I dont like the look of sportsbikes, I prefer to support european business over asian ones, "gut feeling" that asian made products are inferior quality. I think calling it racism is over the top, and a typical liberal kneejerk reaction (OMG they dont embrace every culture.. evil racist! evil evil!). What it really comes down to is personal preference, and the hardcore BEAR lovers who want to burn all jappers are fuckwits just as much as the jap lovers who bait H-D riders.

Lou Girardin

24th January 2006, 09:21

I've done day rides with some of the HOG guys, I prefer to do it on a Harley though because the Suzuk just pisses off from them in the twisty's. Some of those guys are fairly handy riders, but cornering clearance just isn't there.
Great social bunch though.

Beemer

24th January 2006, 10:18

I am not a fan of Harleys, mainly because of the price and the culture that goes with them - all that fringing and nothing but black! I have never ridden a Harley but I have been a pillion a few times and I didn't enjoy the experience.

As for the rest of them, as long as the rider is pleasant and they enjoy what they are riding, I really don't care. I love most bikes - I even love the look of some Harleys! I love different models amongst most brands - Triumph, BMW, Aprillia, Buell, Suzuki, Honda, etc. I like the styling of Hyosung too - but I will reserve my judgement on them until they have been around a bit longer.

As for cars - look at the rise of all these brands that would have been rubbished years ago. To me, as long as they do the job and are reasonably priced, who gives a flying you-know-what?

Winston001

24th January 2006, 13:08

The prejudice started in the late 1960s/early 1970s when Japanese bikes became popular. They were more reliable, faster in a straight line, and cheaper than English/Italian/German bikes. What is more, there was heaps of choice from 50cc - 900cc. Every Jap manufacturer had a complete range of inexpensive bikes and almost overnight they were everywhere.

Harley Davidson barely existed in NZ. The English bikes handled well but leaked oil and often broke down. They were for enthuasists. Eventually Triumph and Norton were swamped by the competition and went into liquidation.

So if you were a biker, you had to have an English bike. It was only for enthusiasts, it was loud, sounded and looked like a real bike, and was unusual because everyone else was riding Japanese. The average blokes were riding zinging two strokes which you sneered at despite their speed (MACH1 Kawasaki - now there is a bike!) Or humming sewing machines with four cylinders which had a buzzing exhaust note. Bleeuugh.

It didn't matter that they were faster etc because you could kick the hell out of the bike (and rider if he was silly enough to stay around) at the next pub.

English bikes became rare and also cost more so they had a kind of snob value.

When the English bikes disappeared the bikers looked around in desperation. Some adopted Ducatis and BMWs but eventually, after selling enough drugs, they started buying Harleys as being the only other true motorbike.

But this attitude went way beyond the gangs. Thousands of guys loved the bad boy image which went with a throaty exhaust note and originals (unwashed denims for you young'uns). They wanted a Bonneville or Commando or Sportster but they were hard to get.

So that is another reason - exclusivity. HDs etc are expensive and have a cult status. It might be irrational but its strong enough to ensure HD keep selling bikes year after year. I'd guess that the ratio of Japanese to BEARS bikes on the road is 10:1 so the Jap bike despite its excellence is just too common to be respected. Silly but there it is.

scumdog

24th January 2006, 13:14

[QUOTE=Beemer]I am not a fan of Harleys, mainly because of the price and the culture that goes with them - all that fringing and nothing but black! [QUOTE]

Hey, wasup? you bagging my image with those comments on 'fringes and nothing but black'?
And we call 'em tassles BTW!:yeah:

Rashika

24th January 2006, 13:33

I am not a fan of Harleys, mainly because of the price and the culture that goes with them - all that fringing and nothing but black!

Hey, wasup? you bagging my image with those comments on 'fringes and nothing but black'?
And we call 'em tassles BTW!:yeah:

:spudwave: haaaaaaa you get 'em scumdog <_<

myvice

24th January 2006, 20:32

Cruisers have never interested me, and I'm over the super fast sports bike look.
So if I go for a naked 4 or twin, maybe a v twin motard, what narrowly focused group will I fit into?
I'll all ways give people shit over what they ride caus that’s what I do!
And I expect it back too!
I gave my Father-in-law heaps when he got a Buell, now I'm looking at one!
If your on two wheels, regardless if its a dress queen Harley or the latest R1 with matching leathers, maybe a GN with the L plate bolted to the back, you have my respect.
I wave at scooters tho so I'm just a romantic at heart?

Chinese price
Japanese production
Italian handling
British heritage
American comfort
Kiwi ingenuity
The ultimate bike?