View Full Version : Shocking allegations!!
scumdog
13th February 2006, 21:34
See the squaddies giving the Iraqui 'boys' the bash?
A bit more of that here and there would be no bottle throwing tagging car stealing drongo drop-kicks costing tax-payers money.:Pokey:
NotaGoth
13th February 2006, 21:39
I seen that on the tv this afternoon... It made me sick to the stomach..
Highlander
13th February 2006, 21:39
Bring it on. They could cut taxes then.
idb
13th February 2006, 21:40
See the squaddies giving the Iraqui 'boys' the bash?
They're only over there to help the locals, when will that be hammered into their thick skulls!!!
vtec
13th February 2006, 21:46
Well from what the media shows, the universal language of the middle east is violence, :ar15: :ar15: so the Brits must just be learning the language.
P.S. I just hoped they deserved it, haven't seen the footage yet though.
scumdog
13th February 2006, 21:49
They're only over there to help the locals, when will that be hammered into their thick skulls!!!
I know - boys with cobble-stones vs s trained squaddies with batons.
Kind of people who would take a knife to a gun-fight, fricken losers anyway you look at it.
And XxxkitIexXX (Too hard to write) the scene is normal in any NZ inner city alley-way when the cretin-crew meet - you know the ones, Bloods and Crips etc, general leeches on society as I was refering to..
NotaGoth
13th February 2006, 21:51
Ok so someone must have done something real bad for someone with "weapons" and plenty of other soldiers around to help them, to decide to give them a hefty kick to the you know uno when they were already on the ground. You could hear the poor buggers begging for mercy even. Not pretty at all :mad:
chickenfunkstar
13th February 2006, 21:54
From the soldiers point of view, i'd be pretty pissed if I got rocks chucked at me all the time. I'd certainly want to do something about it. Not sure beating the shit out of some kids was the best thing to do though, It certainly seemed a bit overboard to me.
I would say that perhaps they should have done something more constructive, but this was in 2004 when there were heaps of raids etc. being carried out by troops. There probably not much they could have done to get the public on their side anyway.
R6_kid
13th February 2006, 21:57
the little fuckers decided it would be fun to throw rocks at the british troops... then a squad of troops chases them down (like 50 teenagers vs 6 troops) and the troops pull 4-5 of them back to the compound and give them 10 of the best and a bit more. I say they deserved it but maybe not as servere as they got.
NotaGoth
13th February 2006, 21:58
Either way what was shown on the video footage, in my eyes was definately not okay. Some may not agree with me but oh well.
Karma
13th February 2006, 21:59
Anyone here served in Iraq? no... me neither... so I don't think I'll pass judgement.
Also... when did you fools start to trust the media?
scumdog
13th February 2006, 22:00
Ok so someone must have done something real bad for someone with "weapons" and plenty of other soldiers around to help them, to decide to give them a hefty kick to the you know uno when they were already on the ground. You could hear the poor buggers begging for mercy even. Not pretty at all :mad:
But they might learn something ( like a kick in the bollocks really hurts) and stop rioting and get back to school where they belong.
No sympathy - every time a riot of any kind occurs the score is always more Police/Military get hurt than rioters - even if the ratio is 10 rioters to 1 of the other.
Biased, rednecked and uncaring? hmm I suppose I am.
Gee, and I feel bad about it too.
At least the young punks will have a REAL reason to hate the white man (and fear him too).
idb
13th February 2006, 22:00
Also... when did you fools start to trust the media?
Everytime it confirms my own prejudices..........
scumdog
13th February 2006, 22:01
Anyone here served in Iraq? no... me neither... so I don't think I'll pass judgement.
Also... when did you fools start to trust the media?
I know, the 'victims' were actually stunt men midgets, I saw them swilling beer with the squaddies after this 'event' - all paid for by the media too!!
Never let facts and reality get in the way of a good story eh?
NotaGoth
13th February 2006, 22:04
Biased, rednecked and uncaring? hmm I suppose I am.
Remind me not to chuck rocks at you :nono:
chickenfunkstar
13th February 2006, 22:06
But they might learn something ( like a kick in the bollocks really hurts) and stop rioting and get back to school where they belong.
No sympathy - every time a riot of any kind occurs the score is always more Police/Military get hurt than rioters - even if the ratio is 10 rioters to 1 of the other.
Biased, rednecked and uncaring? hmm I suppose I am.
Gee, and I feel bad about it too.
At least the young punks will have a REAL reason to hate the white man (and fear him too).
Yeah it will, but what good is that going to do for the situation over there?
If both sides co-operate then the mission over there will cost less money, time and lives on both sides. Everyone wins.
scumdog
13th February 2006, 22:13
Yeah it will, but what good is that going to do for the situation over there?
If both sides co-operate then the mission over there will cost less money, time and lives on both sides. Everyone wins.
This IS real life you're talking about, right?
chickenfunkstar
13th February 2006, 22:16
This IS real life you're talking about, right?
Yeah alright, co-operate is the wrong word. Must have been in a theoretical left wing dream land or something.
I should have said if both sides don't deeply hate each other, or something like that.
Karma
13th February 2006, 22:16
Yeah it will, but what good is that going to do for the situation over there?
If both sides co-operate then the mission over there will cost less money, time and lives on both sides. Everyone wins.
So young... so innocent... so much to learn. :rolleyes:
chickenfunkstar
13th February 2006, 22:20
So young... so innocent... so much to learn. :rolleyes:
Yeah, it didn't really come out right. I've corrected myself.
Teflon
14th February 2006, 05:56
See the squaddies giving the Iraqui 'boys' the bash?
Thats nothing compared to what those Iraqis would do to them. someone needs to start executing some of there people, Iraqi style.. fuckers
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 06:22
Thats nothing compared to what those Iraqis would do to them. someone needs to start executing some of there people, Iraqi style.. fuckers
Didn't look good but I guess Iraq is a place where kids can be suicide bombers so guess we should not judge and to some extent, whilst not being a violent person, I can see Scumdogs point.
What is odd is that someone was on hand to video at that moment, the camcorder seemed to be able to pick up the kids voices a bit too well......but you did not hear the voices of the soldiers!!!......and there was just a hint of stagenish....like some of the baton bashing was a little wishywashy......and the video comes out at this time?? I dunno...
*sic
14th February 2006, 07:28
you all know if you were there pack mentality would kick in and youd be in there kicking away..
if not your lying.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 07:35
you all know if you were there pack mentality would kick in and youd be in there kicking away..
if not your lying.
No not me.......just not in my nature Mr *Sic.......:calm:
tracyprier
14th February 2006, 07:46
While I don't condone mindless beatings by what are supposed to be well-trained, disciplined troops... I am also a firm believer in the old saying that goes something like, "don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccassins" (and old Native American saying I believe).
I for one would not want to be a squaddie in Iraq right now, not a pleasant place to be stationed.
And on the bright side, at least they only gave them a thrashing, better than taking them out in the cuds somewhere and putting a bullet in their heads then dumping them in a ditch like their not-glorious, ex-leader did.
Bottom line, Iraq right now is a shitty place and shitty stuff happens in shitty places.
Colapop
14th February 2006, 07:46
The major problem over there is that there is entrenched hated of armed forces in general. The Iraqi people have been treated badly by various armed regimes for so long it's natural for them to transfer their aggression to the next lot of "oppressors" to come their way.
Equally the soildiers that have been sent into a war zone, have experienced horrors that you and I hope we never have to go through or see. These guys have been trained for combat - to fire weapons and fight. They have not been trained to pschologically deal with the reality of it.
Both sides are equally to blame for the situation that is shown on the video. The soldiers have been taught to kill and be able to continue to kill. Put them in a confrontational situation and what do you expect? The protestors have been taught to hate and show aggression towards armed forces - put some soldiers in front of them and what do you expect.
A point to note though is that the NZ army has been operating in Iraq for some time and has not lost a single soldier to an aggressive act. Go figure that one out..... Something to do with attitude I suspect.
MisterD
14th February 2006, 07:55
A point to note though is that the NZ army has been operating in Iraq for some time and has not lost a single soldier to an aggressive act. Go figure that one out..... Something to do with attitude I suspect.
Something to do with the fact that they're not actually soldiering, just operating as engineers within security provided by the British Army. As soon as the sh1t starts to fly, they're ordered back to base.
As for the video, I doubt those kids got anything more than a few bruises, I've seen way worse than that dished out at pub closing time in smalltown England. Kids in Bordon (garrison town) had a game where they would go into a certain pub, put one hand on the bar and shout "Paras are poofs" and try to get away...this just looks like the Iraqi equivalent, couple of black eyes, a testosterone rush and male pride satisfied all round.
SwanTiger
14th February 2006, 08:06
But they might learn something ( like a kick in the bollocks really hurts) and stop rioting and get back to school where they belong.
What School would that be?
scumdog
14th February 2006, 08:12
What School would that be?
Not the one for "Learn to hate anybody who is not from Iraq and is not Moslem" that's for sure.
Probably not too many intact schools there - or live teachers that can teach them something useful.
The Stranger
14th February 2006, 08:12
Honestly Kittie, the ONLY way some people learn is to feel the pain. And many of those will only learn with severe pain.
You can't apply your rational standards to these people.
The cops/military etc are simply performing a civic duty and educating these people.
WINJA
14th February 2006, 08:24
:laugh: :laugh: FUCK YEAH THATLL LEARN THEM
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 08:25
Honestly Kittie, the ONLY way some people learn is to feel the pain. And many of those will only learn with severe pain.
You can't apply your rational standards to these people.
The cops/military etc are simply performing a civic duty and educating these people.
They may feel the pain but do they really learn and they will remember to hate rather than respect.
Kittie's sentiments are good....we should still maintain standards but sadly the soldiers are expose to a lot of shit...probably scared a lot of the time and the old emotions kick in.
Sorry this is not what cops etc are suppose to do and sorry again but calling it education is @#$%shit.........education is about influence and leadership and if one or both of these is bad education is bad too.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 08:29
Well gotta agree with you here Scummy (surprise surprise).
Weve all became a bit too fuckin PC and soft for my liking. Its a war over there for fuck sakes, I dont care what anyone else says. They got a good kicking and deserved it. We didnt get to see what provoked it, and we dont have any idea what the history is behind this event. How do we know that group of guys didnt do something horrific the day before?? This is just a media spin on things. Like I said, its a fuckin war...people are gonna get hurt. And kittie, wake up and smell the roses girl, this is not Home and Away your watching.
But war is fought by soldiers and one way or the other the lives of Iraqies is still shit compared to ours and Iraqies showing frustration is not "War'.......kids in Western Society do the same.....Sydney an example....and this is not war so I don't think we can put everything in the same pot.......
jonbuoy
14th February 2006, 08:34
As for the video, I doubt those kids got anything more than a few bruises, I've seen way worse than that dished out at pub closing time in smalltown England. Kids in Bordon (garrison town) had a game where they would go into a certain pub, put one hand on the bar and shout "Paras are poofs" and try to get away...this just looks like the Iraqi equivalent, couple of black eyes, a testosterone rush and male pride satisfied all round.
ha ha - thats pretty brave
The Stranger
14th February 2006, 08:52
Sorry this is not what cops etc are suppose to do and sorry again but calling it education is @#$%shit.........education is about influence and leadership and if one or both of these is bad education is bad too.
There you go again, applying rational concepts. You need to think outside your square.
Education - the process of educating or being educated.
Personally I think a beating falls into that definition.
Did you never get a beating from the cops?
Hmm, educated me, and I never did it again and I probably got more respect for them.
Taught me not to give lip. Taught me that people are not always treated fairly. Taught me not to trust people just cause they have authority. Taught me that even if you are right some battles are just not worth it.
JMemonic
14th February 2006, 09:00
Have not seen the video so I can comment on the quality of it or the actions that take place, if this has been staged as some suggest it wont be the first time, if it has been blown out of context by the media again it will not be the first time.
I have talked to troops over there, it is not what we see on the news, it is worse but slowly getting better. I hope that their mission is sucessful and isolated incidents like this dont have a repeat backlash as they did during the Vietnam conflict where many nations ended up with servicemen and women who answered their nations call only to return to a disrespectful nation.
Remember a soldiers ultimate goal is peace, respect those who serve for they ensure that you can enjoy the life you know.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:20
There you go again, applying rational concepts. You need to think outside your square.
Education - the process of educating or being educated.
Personally I think a beating falls into that definition.
Did you never get a beating from the cops?
Hmm, educated me, and I never did it again and I probably got more respect for them.
Taught me not to give lip. Taught me that people are not always treated fairly. Taught me not to trust people just cause they have authority. Taught me that even if you are right some battles are just not worth it.
Fair enough......but have you seem my square!!
No I have not been beaten by the cops but I still learnt the same ethics as you did........
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:22
There lives might be shit compared to ours alright, but thats not our fault. Iraq is one of the wealthiest countries in the World, asset-wise, hence so much interest in the Country in the first place. Why dont the people get to see that wealth?? They could be educated and have nice buildings and roads etc. They used too at one time, why did that change?
And to the "Youths on the streeet" this is a war to them Grahame, as far as they are concerned.
Fair enough but not most Iraqies fault either I guess..........
The Stranger
14th February 2006, 09:28
No I have not been beaten by the cops but I still learnt the same ethics as you did........
Thank you.
Just proves my point.
Different people respond differently to different stimuli.
We both arrived at the same conclusions via different routes.
Some learn, some you can teach, some you got to beat.
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 09:32
There lives might be shit compared to ours alright, but thats not our fault. Iraq is one of the wealthiest countries in the World, asset-wise, hence so much interest in the Country in the first place. Why dont the people get to see that wealth?? They could be educated and have nice buildings and roads etc. They used too at one time, why did that change?
And to the "Youths on the streeet" this is a war to them Grahame, as far as they are concerned.
Increased conflict isn't going to do anything to free up these resources for the Iraqi people. By reacting to minor things like stone throwing, hatred for westerners will only incease. I can't see who wins in situations like this.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:33
Thank you.
Just proves my point.
Different people respond differently to different stimuli.
We both arrived at the same conclusions via different routes.
Some learn, some you can teach, some you got to beat.
A Pleasure Mr CaN, but proves that you don't need a beating to have good ethics and I still do not believe that a good beating is the best answer......and hey you didn't have to beat me to get me to learn your point......I guess I just believe in having a circle of influence and using leadership..........and if that means starting the beat.......no I didn't say that!!! :brick:
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:35
Increased conflict isn't going to do anything to free up these resources for the Iraqi people. By reacting to minor things like stone throwing, hatred for westerners will only incease. I can't see who wins in situations like this.
I quite agree..........need to pick battles, not start wars..
scumdog
14th February 2006, 09:38
Increased conflict isn't going to do anything to free up these resources for the Iraqi people. By reacting to minor things like stone throwing, hatred for westerners will only incease. I can't see who wins in situations like this.
They only hurl stones etc (as said before, have you seen some of their stone chucking slings? not 'minor' by any means) to get a reaction - of course sometimes said reaction is not quite the one they thought they would get........bad luck!!
Have to guess they thought that chucking a few rocks etc is going to make the nasty foriegners go home? Dumb bastards!! but should all the foriegners leave who will they target then???
Pull out and leave 'em to slit each others throats 'til the cows come home, it's normal life for them..
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:41
They only hurl stones etc (as said before, have you seen some of their stone chucking slings? not 'minor' by any means) to get a reaction - of course sometimes said reaction is not quite the one they thought they would get........bad luck!!
Have to guess they thought that chucking a few rocks etc is going to make the nasty foriegners go home? Dumb bastards!! but should all the foriegners leave who will they target then???
Pull out and leave 'em to slit each others throats 'til the cows come home, it's normal life for them..
Can you compare a bigger caterpault with a tank.......??:nono:
scumdog
14th February 2006, 09:45
Can you compare a bigger caterpault with a tank.......??:nono:
See, like I said, Dumb Bastards!!
I guess in NZ it's drive fast'n'drunk in unsafe cars for youths of that ilk.:scratch:
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 09:52
They only hurl stones etc (as said before, have you seen some of their stone chucking slings? not 'minor' by any means) to get a reaction - of course sometimes said reaction is not quite the one they thought they would get........bad luck!!
Have to guess they thought that chucking a few rocks etc is going to make the nasty foriegners go home? Dumb bastards!! but should all the foriegners leave who will they target then???
Pull out and leave 'em to slit each others throats 'til the cows come home, it's normal life for them..
I don't think its justifiable in anyone's books To Invade a stable country, create heaps af chaos, then decide that its too hard and pull out, leaving only the beginnings of civil war behind. They're just arabs after all, right?
If they were planning to pull out half way through why would the US invade in the first place. As I've said before, it wasn't the soft cock lefties which jumped into war without second thought. If they did pull out they would have achieved nothing at all, Iraq would end up with an even worse regime than Saddam's dictatorship.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:57
[QUOTE=SpeedMedic]OK can see this thread going down the same path as the Islam one very quickly. All been amicable up to this point, lets try and keep it on track and not get personal.
Fucken towelheads.[/QUOTE
But I thought beatings were okay??....I am a confused Bunny....:dodge:
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 09:59
See, like I said, Dumb Bastards!!
I guess in NZ it's drive fast'n'drunk in unsafe cars for youths of that ilk.:scratch:
:bash: ..................
nudemetalz
14th February 2006, 10:02
I don't think its justifiable in anyone's books To Invade a stable country,.....
Stable country ???
Sorry, I thought we were talking about Iraq.....
Send in Gunny Sgt R. Lee Ermey in,...he'll sort it out !!!
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 10:11
Stable country ???
Sorry, I thought we were talking about Iraq.....
Send in Gunny Sgt R. Lee Ermey in,...he'll sort it out !!!
I'm not suggesting that it'd be nice country to live in but they were stable.
There was no internal conflict or political instability and they wern't a threat to any other country at the time of the invasion.
Karma
14th February 2006, 10:29
End Scene from Rambo I
Colonel Trautman: It's over Johnny. It's over!
"Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win, for somebody who wouldn't let us win! Then I come back to the world, and I see all those maggots at the airport, protestin' me, spittin', callin' me a baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me?! Huh?! Who are they?! Unless they been me and been there and know what the hell they yellin' about!"
Colonel Trautman: It was a bad time for everyone Rambo. It's all in the past now.
"For you! For me civilian life is nothin'! In the field we had a code of honor. You watch my back I watch yours. Back here there's nothin'! Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment. Back here I can't even hold a job PARKING CARS!!!! UUHHHH!!!!! (Throws M-60 at wall and then slight emotional pause. He drops to the ground in a crouched position out of breath and very upset) Wha... I can't... oh, I just--oh my God. Where is everybody? Oh God... I... I had a friend, who was Danforth. Wha--I had all these guys man. Back there I had all these fucking guys. Who were my friends. Cause back here there's nothin'. Remember Danforth? He wore this black head band and I took one of those magic markers and I said to Feron, 'Hey mail us to Las Vegas cause we were always talkin' about Vegas, and this fucking car. This uh red '58 Chevy convertible, he was talkin' about this car, he said we were gonna cruise till the tires fall off. (upset pause) We were in this bar in Saigon. And this kid comes up, this kid carryin' a shoe shine box, and eh he says uh 'shine please, shine.' I said no, eh an' uh, he kept askin' yeah and Joey said 'yeah,' and I went to get a couple beers and the ki--the box was wired, and he opened up the box, fuckin' blew his body all over the place. And he's layin' there and he's fuckin' screamin', there's pieces of him all over me, just like--! (frustrated he grabs at his bullet chain strapped around his chest and yanks it off) like this. And I'm tryin' to pull em off you know? And he.. MY FRIEND IT'S ALL OVER ME! IT'S GOT BLOOD AND EVERYTHING! And I'm tryin' to hold him together I put him together his fucking insides keep coming out, AND NOBODY WOULD HELP!! Nobody help me. He sayin' please I wanna go home I wanna go home. He keeps callin' my name, I wanna go home Johnny, I wanna drive my Chevy. I said well (upset and breaking down) WHY I can't find your fucking legs. I can't find you legs. (softly now) I can't get it out of my head. I fuck--I dream of seven years. Everyday I have this. And sometimes I wake up and I dunno where I am. I don't talk to anybody. Sometimes a day--a week. (Almost inaudible) I can't put it out of my mind... fucking... I can't.......(totally sobbing now)"
SARGE
14th February 2006, 10:34
screw beating them stupid.. too hot over there for all that excersise.. just set them on fire.. dismember them and hang them off a bridge as a warning...
long as i knows the rules i can plays the game...
Harry33
14th February 2006, 10:36
Holy hell weasel, I'll guess you have it on dvd with subtitles cause I can't figure out what the hell Stallone says in most of his movies.
NotaGoth
14th February 2006, 10:37
And kittie, wake up and smell the roses girl, this is not Home and Away your watching.
Well fuck Glen I actually thought it was Shortland Street. *rollZ* eyes.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 10:38
Well fuck Glen I actually thought it was Shortland Street. *rollZ* eyes.
Like it...........................:rockon:
Karma
14th February 2006, 10:39
Holy hell weasel, I'll guess you have it on dvd with subtitles cause I can't figure out what the hell Stallone says in most of his movies.
Yeh, just think there's a lot of PC bullshit going on, people trying to apply their standards and morality to people in a situation they could barely comprehend let alone deal with.
I don't know shit about war, I've never been in one and hopefully never will, and for that reason I ain't lobbying for our soldiers to go into war zones with flowers instead of guns.
nudemetalz
14th February 2006, 10:41
Awesome (Rambo) post, Weasel !!
SARGE
14th February 2006, 10:50
I don't know shit about war, I've never been in one and hopefully never will, and for that reason I ain't lobbying for our soldiers to go into war zones with flowers instead of guns.
been there , done that..it aint Hollywood folks.. anyone who tells you different is selling something.. the rules of war states that the Geneva Convention applies to UNIFORMED COMBATANTS.. anyone else has no rights on a battlefeild. you pays your money and you takes your chances
DirtMad
14th February 2006, 10:51
No sympathy at all.
If those little shits wanted to bring a rock to a gun fight :2guns: then they should have been prepared for the smack down. :clap:
I bet if the situation was reversed those ragheads would`ve killed the troops...
-ex military (can ya tell? :shifty: )
The_Dover
14th February 2006, 10:53
I still say we nuke the fuckers and take our oil back.
Stupid place to hide it anyway, under all that fuckin sand.
JMemonic
14th February 2006, 10:54
I'm not suggesting that it'd be nice country to live in but they were stable.
There was no internal conflict or political instability and they wern't a threat to any other country at the time of the invasion.
Stable in what way they were one step short of civil war (what ever is civil about war I dont know) there was no democracy, oppression of simple libertys, there were three main factions, only one of which held power. Over the years there were repeted mass murders that can only be called genocide. Any dissenting voice was imprisioned and tortured.
Hell if these kids had rioted under the regime that was in power forget a beating and think Tiananmen Square but I doubt we would have head about it at all, if the current trial and the charges laid are not enough for you look at all the mass graves they are finding.
The only real difference is the west never took an interest, hell the US proped up Sadam's regime for years how do you think that the US knew about those WMD's that Iraq had, oh I know they have not found them but they had them cause the US supplied the offending items during the Iran-Iraq war, Sadam used some of them to suppress part of the local population and the west never batted an eyelid.
We aint perfect either look at what this country did with East Timor.
nudemetalz
14th February 2006, 11:01
No sympathy at all.
If those little shits wanted to bring a rock to a gun fight :2guns: then they should have been prepared for the smack down. :clap:
I bet if the situation was reversed those ragheads would`ve killed the troops...
-ex military (can ya tell? :shifty: )
I concur !!!
-also ex-military (although my avatar may have given that away)
justsomeguy
14th February 2006, 11:15
Spoke to an officer in the Indian Army who had been on the front line a few times.
The sweetest, cutest little baby girl could be nothing more than a terrorist scout.
There are no rules in those situations.
Soldiers have to be in an unimaginably (for us civilians) extremely alert frame of mind for prolonged periods. They have to be lucky all the time. The terrorists only have to be lucky once.
Deano
14th February 2006, 11:24
Anyone here served in Iraq? no... me neither... so I don't think I'll pass judgement.
Also... when did you fools start to trust the media?
I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 11:27
I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?
and so was the moon landing??
scumdog
14th February 2006, 11:29
I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?
Meh, probably an out-take from Blackhawk Down or sommat like that.
Who knows where the film REALLY came from and who made it.
(Some of those squaddies looked a tad dark and I'm sure one had a camel-whip tucked into his belt and....)
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 11:36
Stable in what way they were one step short of civil war (what ever is civil about war I dont know) there was no democracy, oppression of simple libertys, there were three main factions, only one of which held power. Over the years there were repeted mass murders that can only be called genocide. Any dissenting voice was imprisioned and tortured.
Hell if these kids had rioted under the regime that was in power forget a beating and think Tiananmen Square but I doubt we would have head about it at all, if the current trial and the charges laid are not enough for you look at all the mass graves they are finding.
The only real difference is the west never took an interest, hell the US proped up Sadam's regime for years how do you think that the US knew about those WMD's that Iraq had, oh I know they have not found them but they had them cause the US supplied the offending items during the Iran-Iraq war, Sadam used some of them to suppress part of the local population and the west never batted an eyelid.
We aint perfect either look at what this country did with East Timor.
As far as I was aware Saddam had a good grip on power, I didn't see him being overthrown anytime soon.
I don't doubt that he was a nasty character but i'm not sure that justifies and invasion. Before 2003 I would have taken the 'let them sort it out for themselves' view point. I don't think its appropriate to leave the job now, when the mission hasn't really been accomplished.
I don't think that there's many people left who still argue that Saddam still had WMD's in 2003.
Karma
14th February 2006, 11:42
I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?
What about the photos they had of those american soldiers in the Iraqi prison... turns out they were told to do it by those higher up the chain... and the time they tried to say British solders were doing it at the same time, but the photos were doctored.
Dude... if you can watch Narnia and Star Wars and all that shit they can do on computers these days then editing a bit of film to show something it's not isn't really that hard.
I believe my eyes and ears, but only when I'm on site to judge. If I havn't seen it myself, then how do I know it's true?
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 11:42
The problem is that in New Zealand we are extremely PC. We believe that members of the military and police must behave in a robotic on/off switch mentality.
For example, say a cop or even a member of the public was chasing a rapist or someone who had bashed their kids or smacked a girl over in the street for her bag...once caught you must treat them with respect and tolerance that they will never show you....this is the way things are over here.
Now imagine your in the British Army or Royal Marines. You signed up to 1. protect your country etc etc...you get shipped to Iraq.
A lot of the guys you went over with start getting cut down from sneaky hit and run tactics...mates are loosing limbs, their lives and their minds.
Every day could be your last.
2. Then some scroates start throwing rocks at your base......what would you do?We cannot judge them as we werent there, we dont know what its like 3. but undoubtably they will get tracked down.
1. Righto
2. Throw the rocks back.......
3. Could be difficult so far back?
pritch
14th February 2006, 11:48
I was reading in a (Spectator?) article recently where there are Brit lawyers queuing to fly to Iraq and represent Iraqi locals in court cases against the military.
The squaddies should kow what to do about that. After first checking that nobody has a camera/cell phone of course...
HenryDorsetCase
14th February 2006, 11:48
But they might learn something ( like a kick in the bollocks really hurts) and stop rioting and get back to school where they belong.
No sympathy - every time a riot of any kind occurs the score is always more Police/Military get hurt than rioters - even if the ratio is 10 rioters to 1 of the other.
Biased, rednecked and uncaring? hmm I suppose I am.
Gee, and I feel bad about it too.
At least the young punks will have a REAL reason to hate the white man (and fear him too).
nonsense. i hope that both sides will learn their lesson from this incident. they need to sit down, with each other and dialogue, then a powhiri and a ceremonial payment of some sort and both sides will reach a new understanding and will proceed forward with a shared vision to a new and brighter future.
Yeah right.
SARGE
14th February 2006, 11:51
I don't think that there's many people left who still argue that Saddam still had WMD's in 2003.
nah.. he used them all on the Kurds...
look folks.. Saddam has proven many times that he was and is a madman.. he has gassed his own people on a few occations.. if he was given the opportunity to gain WMD's ... he damn sure woulda used them.. no question.
SARGE
14th February 2006, 11:52
2. Throw the rocks back.......
just pull the pin first....
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 11:54
The problem is that in New Zealand we are extremely PC. We believe that members of the military and police must behave in a robotic on/off switch mentality.
Now imagine your in the British Army or Royal Marines. You signed up to protect your country or whatever etc etc...you get shipped to Iraq.
For example, say a cop or even a member of the public was chasing a rapist or someone who had bashed their kids or smacked a girl over in the street for her bag...once caught you must treat them with respect and tolerance that they will never show you....otherwise YOU will be charged.
A lot of the guys you went over with start getting cut down from sneaky hit and run tactics...mates are loosing limbs, their lives and their minds.
Every day could be your last.
Then some scroates start throwing rocks at your base......what would you do? They needed a hiding, they got a hiding.
If it had been westerners throwing rocks they would of responded in a hail of bullets.
We cannot judge them as we werent there, we dont know what its like.
I know what you're saying but I think that retaliating to relativly insignificant stuff like throwing rocks will lead to more radical forms of resistance. I don't think that boys throwing stones are in the same category as hard line insurgants who are 100% fixed in their attitudes and ways. I think that the actions of the troops could well have an influence on how they themselves are treated. (not in all cases but at least in some)
If westerners threw stones they probably would have responded with a hail of bullets. However westerners are in their country not the other way around.
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 11:56
just pull the pin first....
I promote you to General..............
pritch
14th February 2006, 11:56
Who knows where the film REALLY came from and who made it. (
Apparently the troops have been indentified as First battalion, Light Infantry Brigade. Marching around at that speed could make anybody upset... :-)
SARGE
14th February 2006, 12:21
I promote you to General..............
screw that .. i dont want to ride a desk..
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 12:23
screw that .. i dont want to ride a desk..
Fussy............still must be better that servicing Scooters like Trig eh!!!
SARGE
14th February 2006, 12:32
Fussy............still must be better that servicing Scooters like Trig eh!!!
//shudder//:scooter: :finger:
i dont even like to LOOK at them...
(scooters or trigger either one .. )
oldrider
14th February 2006, 12:54
If westerners threw stones they probably would have responded with a hail of bullets. However westerners are in their country not the other way around.
Fuck me dead! :shit: Who stole the real world? :sick:
tracyprier
14th February 2006, 12:56
WHAT!! Shoot all the lawyers!!!:shit: ....
hell I thought that was a given :2guns:
I was reading in a (Spectator?) article recently where there are Brit lawyers queuing to fly to Iraq and represent Iraqi locals in court cases against the military.
The squaddies should kow what to do about that. After first checking that nobody has a camera/cell phone of course...
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 13:00
Fuck me dead! :shit: Who stole the real world? :sick:
Okay, who was it....own up.....:wait:
nudemetalz
14th February 2006, 13:01
Okay, who was it....own up.....:wait:
It was the producers of Shorty Street.....
outlawtorn
14th February 2006, 13:01
fuck the media, they always blow shit out of proportion.
Karma
14th February 2006, 13:03
And there was me thinking bikers were evil, the government is good for us, speed kills, and women are smart enough to leave the kitchen :o
Grahameeboy
14th February 2006, 13:05
It was the producers of Shorty Street.....
Yeah, that is why I have never watched it cause I need to keep my reality checked.................nurse, nurse...where are you...:doctor:
Teflon
14th February 2006, 13:07
look folks.. Saddam has proven many times that he was and is a madman.. he has gassed his own people on a few occations.. if he was given the opportunity to gain WMD's ... he damn sure woulda used them.. no question.
they are all mad over there. Iranians used kids to clear mine fields. they tied keys around there neck so they could get into heaven.
MisterD
14th February 2006, 13:11
I don't think that there's many people left who still argue that Saddam still had WMD's in 2003.
Probably not, but my personal take on the situation was that he wanted the west to think that he had them, calculating that this would mean they would chicken out of invading (again). :Oops:
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 13:12
Fuck me dead! :shit: Who stole the real world? :sick:
I wasn't aware of an arab occuping force in a western country.
Is there one which i'm not aware of?
Karma
14th February 2006, 13:13
Go talk to Abu (check out my cool hook) Hamza in London...
chickenfunkstar
14th February 2006, 13:17
Hardly on the same scale though is it.
Hasn't he been jailed for his crimes now anyway?
Karma
14th February 2006, 13:20
Not on the same scale? Only cos you can't see it.
Our troops wear uniforms, terrorists look just like the rest of us.
There are sleeper cells all over the world, we've already seen two in the uk, I'd wager there's a few here as well... half a dozen people in Auckland planning to take down the skytower or something as soon as some nut gives them the nod.
oldrider
14th February 2006, 14:01
I wasn't aware of an arab occuping force in a western country.
Is there one which i'm not aware of?
The closest one is New Zealand!
The Japanese used the same tactics prior to their conquest in the Pacific.
Thankfully the allies (mainly Americans) foiled that little plan.
Japanese were all over our country posing as tourists mainly on "pushbikes".
The only difference is these guys are being assisted by our own government.
That little shenanigan about the cartoons was a political show of force and distribution.
It was for their own benefit more than for Western civilisation.
You probably don't agree!! Wait and see. I hope like hell I'm wrong.
The enemy within? Where will their loyalty lie if I'm right?
Infiltrate and disrupt! Conventional weapons are powerless against that.
They won't be on pushbikes, or simply throwing "stones". :no: JMHO.
scumdog
14th February 2006, 14:57
They have already arrested one.
Hmmm, have they got a complainant? Buggers are probably dead by now, 'defending the faith'.
Scouse
14th February 2006, 16:44
See the squaddies giving the Iraqui 'boys' the bash?
A bit more of that here and there would be no bottle throwing tagging car stealing drongo drop-kicks costing tax-payers money.:Pokey:I think the British army needs to make a rule that noone on active service is allowed to have a camera with them then there would be not timebomb/media frenzie ffs these Iraqi's were chucking rocks looked like they started it any way if the American's had adopted the British philosophy that all's fair in war they prolly wouldn't have lost in Vietnam
Scouse
14th February 2006, 16:47
Ok so someone must have done something real bad for someone with "weapons" and plenty of other soldiers around to help them, to decide to give them a hefty kick to the you know uno when they were already on the ground. You could hear the poor buggers begging for mercy even. Not pretty at all :mad:Can I smell coffee yup I can it must be time to wake up then
Stickman
14th February 2006, 16:51
What the hey!!
Do you think uniforms getting beaten to death by Iraqui teens would have got the same coverage??? :(
They would be held up as heroes of the struggle. There are two moral codes and two sets of rules. Both sets give the advantage to the natives of the occupied country!
mstriumph
14th February 2006, 16:56
lots of things happen in combat zones
lots of unpretty, effective things
in all honesty, if i were there i would be doing whatever was necessary to ensure 'the locals' had enough liking, respect or fear for/of me to make them leave me alone
the only difference would be i'd make DAMN sure there was no-one with a camera around 'capturing the moment for prosterity'
imho the fellow wielding the camera needs a smacking
sorry:corn:
Deano
14th February 2006, 17:53
I believe what I saw and I know just the type of soldier that is 'into' it. One guy I know specifically joined so he could 'legally' kill some unknown rebel in a foreign country. I don't kow many soldiers but the ones I do know are gung ho to say the least.
The footage seemed pretty clear cut to me - but hey, it could be a huge conspiracy by the CIA or Bin Laden or yeah....whatever...
MidnightMike
14th February 2006, 17:59
I know - boys with cobble-stones vs s trained squaddies with batons.
Kind of people who would take a knife to a gun-fight, fricken losers anyway you look at it.
And XxxkitIexXX (Too hard to write) the scene is normal in any NZ inner city alley-way when the cretin-crew meet - you know the ones, Bloods and Crips etc, general leeches on society as I was refering to..
Anyone wanna give me a batton and drop me off in the middle of gate pa? :bash: and a bit of :Pokey: add some :kick: , Itll be better than christmas :cool:
Indoo
14th February 2006, 18:02
I believe what I saw and I know just the type of soldier that is 'into' it. One guy I know specifically joined so he could 'legally' kill some unknown rebel in a foreign country. I don't kow many soldiers but the ones I do know are gung ho to say the least.
The footage seemed pretty clear cut to me - but hey, it could be a huge conspiracy by the CIA or Bin Laden or yeah....whatever...
The footage is clear but only if you take it in isolation and read into it what you want. Thats what you get when you put a load of 20 year old guys into combat, let them face horrific scenes every day, be subjected to the constant threat of death or maiming and then expect them to deal with a violent protest with the utmost tolerance. It just isn't going to happen.
The people at fault are the British government and Commanders in the army. I mean where the hell were the sergeants and co when this was happening to pull these young kids into line?
Unfortunately they will hang the squady's out to dry and blame it on the individuals. But until any of us have been in that situation, faced those kind of pressures who the hell are we to judge.
jonbuoy
14th February 2006, 18:53
What the hell are all those cameras there for anyway, let the troops do their job - not a pretty one or one most people would want to do - but still their job. That sort of shits been going on ever since we first started throwing rocks at each other when rocks was all we had.
Can't remember who said about the Vietnam war - "you can't fight a war with one hand tied behind your back"
(the hand being reporters and camera men)
Scouse
14th February 2006, 19:04
.
Can't remember who said about the Vietnam war - "you can't fight a war with one hand tied behind your back"
(the hand being reporters and camera men)Well that was my point but the hand I was alludeing to was the Tactics any conflict that the Brits have been in like Malaya for example the have won because they fought to win or call it dirty tactics but like I said alls fair in war (my opinion)
Deano
14th February 2006, 19:53
But until any of us have been in that situation, faced those kind of pressures who the hell are we to judge.
I probably would have been in there doing the same thing myself - to reiterate, I wasn't passing judgement, simply pointing out what is plain to see on the video footage and commentary.
Also... when did you fools start to trust the media?
terbang
14th February 2006, 21:34
Who the good guys are really depends on which side you are on. It is a war and getting kicked in the bollocks is probably a lot better than a bullet between the eyes or being vapourised in a bomb blast. The brits love a scrap and history has proved that they do a good job of it and I am sure they have done, and will continue, a lot worse than just beating a few people if it helps them win.
Really the whole Iraq war thing is just fucking madness and a lot of inocent people are suffering when the real thugs (Saddam & George among many others) are the ones to blame and should also experience a good size 10 on thier scrotum bags to bring them back to reality..
NotaGoth
14th February 2006, 21:47
Can I smell coffee yup I can it must be time to wake up then
I can't smell coffee but I can smell hot chocolate ;)
boomer
14th February 2006, 22:00
There you go again, applying rational concepts. You need to think outside your square.
Education - the process of educating or being educated.
Personally I think a beating falls into that definition.
Did you never get a beating from the cops?
Hmm, educated me, and I never did it again and I probably got more respect for them.
Taught me not to give lip. Taught me that people are not always treated fairly. Taught me not to trust people just cause they have authority. Taught me that even if you are right some battles are just not worth it.
I got many a beating from cops ( my dad included ) and the only thing it taught me, then, was to be even more sly and cunning.
As for the good ole kicking these fuckers got.. i say exit the country and nuke the fuckers. THAT"LL LEARN 'EM
Karma
14th February 2006, 22:11
I got many a beating from cops ( my dad included ) and the only thing it taught me, then, was to be even more sly and cunning.
And next time, don't cut the fuses too short!!
Fucken noob miners...
boomer
14th February 2006, 22:14
And next time, don't cut the fuses too short!!
Fucken noob miners...
Arthurs my hero, why do you think my Nick names Boomer :D that as well as being lucky enough to blow shit up for HRH as a Royal Engineer:finger:
Karma
14th February 2006, 22:16
I thought it was a reference to your anal emissions...
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