mid corner gravel rocks the party

[FzerozeroT]

Here's the e-mail I sent to the council, I'll let the pictures tell the rest

"Hi mark, the receptionist told me that you are the man to talk to about this.

The photos pretty much explain the story :

1. coming up to the corner the gravel is not apparant
2. i pulled into the slow trafic lane to avoid the traffic coming up behind me
3. doing about 30 kph after braking
4. turned into corner
5. front wheel slid out

As you can imagine i was pretty upset, cursing the fact that there was no roadsigns. I look around and see roadsigns 200m further on!

I have been in contact with my insurance brokers and they have asked me to go directly to you to resolve the matter of fixing my bike and gear.
I hope that something can be sorted out as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely


Matthew Foot"

[Wenier]

Yea the councils in this country are fukn useless they should definitely pay for that my mate had a incident with a sweeper truck on a windy open road area where they hadnt sign posted that it was sweepin and when he came round the corner well fuk me wut was in the way.

Fight it out and make them pay best of luck dude!

[750Y]

bummer, looks like a nice bike & good gears also.
I am concerned that it sounds like your broker is fobbing you off. I was under the impression that's what insurance is for & if they want to take issue then they should chase the council AFTER paying You out to replace the leathers and get the bike fixed.(i'm no expert tho)
send a copy of the email to your local MP also and demand they act straight away before another biker goes down and inform the police if You haven't already & make a statement about what occurred being very careful not to leave any avenue for them to weedle out of it. so make sure you were in the right(which it sounds like you were). hassle the shit out of them all each day until you get action.
bet of luck and cool bike too btw.

[Antallica]

See what have I been saying, those green Kawa's are cursed I tell you!!

Bugger about the bike dude, only thing that goes on the FXR is the mirror and the pegs take the damage.

$90 later the mirror is sweet and so is the bike usually :)
Good luck on fighting the council dude!! :rockon:

[Motu]

So,have you learnt something,or are you going to continue blaming someone else for not keeping your eyes peeled.You sound like my mate who was gunna ''do'' the council when he canned it on white lines in the wet.

[Wenier]

its a bit different when there is gravel from roadworks and they havent put signs in the right place.

[FROSTY]

So,have you learnt something,or are you going to continue blaming someone else for not keeping your eyes peeled.You sound like my mate who was gunna ''do'' the council when he canned it on white lines in the wet.
Nope I cant agree with ya here dude. I had a scarey off one day --pulled round a corner at like 15 km/h then ended up on my arse.
The council had resealed the road then put pea gravel down -no road works sighns on a blind corner.
I saw 4 car crashes as I was getting the bike back ridable.
The council paid to repair my bike.

[Motu]

Oh,for fucks sakes you lot - I'm soooooo sick of hearing you guys bleat on about falling off because you came across a bit of gravel ''you didn't know was there'',a bump in the road,road works,the sun was in my eyes,my G string was stuck up my arse,any fucking excuse except the one that caused the bin - the rider was caught unawares of a road hazzard - hey that's your job..yes you the rider,the guy in control of the motorcycle - stand up and say - ''I fucked up''

Have I ever fallen off in gravel? of course - 1970,my second day on a bike,no license...I pull into a gravel drive and drop the bike....the next day I do exactly the same thing.Did I learn from this? Aparently not because in 1990 I again fell off my bike on a gravel road - I'm still learning.This Easter I traveled 1100km on wet sealed and gravel roads,most unknown to me on a bike with knobby tyres - did I fall off because some useless council didn't maintain or signpost their roads - nooooo.

LEARN to ride guys - it might save your life one day.

[Antallica]

One time I dropped my FXR, day after me and my mate had bogged it back on. Go figure.

Good points on both sides. Live and learn.... most of all, live my friends :)

[FROSTY]

I agree that hey at the end of the day the decision to be at that place at that time is all ours. Blaming the "blind" cage driver or that stupid dog for falling off our bike is pretty dumb.
That said there are occasions where you're sitting on ya ass on the road
thinking--'was there anything I could have-should have done different'
and you can't think of anything.
When I fell off -other than simply not being on that road at that time i can think of nothing I would have /could have done different.
it aint a matter of winging --just the reality of life as a biker.
If it was a diesel patch from an overfull truck I hit then it would have been a case of SHIT HAPPENS

[FzerozeroT]

I can agree with you Jackrat. Maybe I should have been watching the road a bit closer instead of the saab that was closing in behind me or the diamante that was coming the other way, I have been hit by people who "didn't see you stopping there".
However, I scanned the road from 100m and bugger me if the road looked all good, and why wouldn't it be - if there was any major problem with the road then transit NZ would have spray painted squares around the rough patches or there would be a sign up with "cars flicking stones at windscreens". This is the NZ that I know, Transit NZ and LTSA do SOME god things.
The case here is not of "shit happens" it's a case of negligence by the workers that were doing their merry job just up the road.

[marty]

[QUOTE=FzerozeroT]

1. coming up to the corner the gravel is not apparant
2. i pulled into the slow trafic lane to avoid the traffic coming up behind me
3. doing about 30 kph after braking
4. turned into corner
5. front wheel slid out
[QUOTE]

1. what is the stuff sitting in the brand new curbing, or covering the fog line in one of your pix?
2. it looks wide enough to put a truck in - i presume that's what it's for
3. fair enuf
4. as you do
5. as it does when there is fresh seal, stones etc....


come on man - it's riding on the road ffs. it could have been anything - i went around french pass for a blast the other day - crested a rising left hander with the sun in my eyes at about 120k, and rode between 2 sheep dogs trotting down the road about 2 metres apart.........if i had have hit them it may have been someone elses contribution to my demise, but it would have been my fault for not taking ALL REASONABLE CARE. your insurer is trying to get out of paying, & the council will never pay. go back to your insurer and tell them - i pay my premiums for this, fix it. it is then their problem to go to the council, not yours. that's what you are paying for them to do.

[750Y]

I can agree with you Jackrat.

LOL, easy to get them mixed up.

[Motu]

Grumpy old farts who spend more time on the computer than riding bikes eh.

[Jackrat]

I can agree with you Jackrat. Maybe I should have been watching the road a bit closer instead of the saab that was closing in behind me or the diamante that was coming the other way, I have been hit by people who "didn't see you stopping there".
However, I scanned the road from 100m and bugger me if the road looked all good, and why wouldn't it be - if there was any major problem with the road then transit NZ would have spray painted squares around the rough patches or there would be a sign up with "cars flicking stones at windscreens". This is the NZ that I know, Transit NZ and LTSA do SOME god things.
The case here is not of "shit happens" it's a case of negligence by the workers that were doing their merry job just up the road.

Hey whoa bro' it wasn't me.Honest mate you can trust me.
Ummmm,Now I'm here I may as well say something.
Wan'a buy a good used Valiant??Low kms,one little old lady driver,,,,,,,,,
Aye what???????????Oh damn voises in my head.
Mate tell your insurance Co' to get it's shit togeather.

[MadDuck]

Grumpy old farts who spend more time on the computer than riding bikes eh.

yeah Motu some people on here may be grumpy and old ...who knows :msn-wink: :msn-wink: but we learn from your guys experiences. Young and silly and dead is not as good as grumpy and in my book...umm IMHO. I can see the headlines now. Who is the granny (me) still riding a motorbike at age umm 90 :niceone:

[deeknow]

Here's the e-mail I sent to the council, I'll let the pictures tell the rest....As you can imagine i was pretty upset, cursing the fact that there was no roadsigns. I look around and see roadsigns 200m further on!

Dude ... I hear ya. Thats the Collins Rd intersection out by the Mormon Temple aint it? I had a bike-damaging experience in exactly the same spot a couple of weeks back.

I was riding thru there one Sunday about the time they were re-shaping the intersection. Being the weekend there was noone working on it (of course) but they did have road-works signs up. I slowed down to 30-ish ... and all of a sudden spot a wheel-wide crevass-like crater running the full width of the road. Front wheel drops into it with a clunk and now I've gotta get the forks seen to as they're definately wacky.

The thing that really pisses me off is the fuckers who were working on the section of road made no attempt to cover or temporarily fill the hole in the road for the weekend. Sounds like the project was half-arsed.

[FROSTY]

um for the record-in my case -many years ago-the then MOT contacted the council and the council paid to fix my bike.
The council got it a whole passle of shit over having no sighns on a roadworks area.

[Lou Girardin]

I want signs when there's cow shit on the road, diesel, cars on the wrong side, cops ahead, etc. I WANT SIGNS FOR EVERYTHING!
Then nothing will be my fault.
Lou

[Motu]

Good one Lou - but unfortunatly that's the way it's going,someones to blame for my fuck up,and they're gunna pay for it!

[merv]

Yep, the American way.

When I attended Michigan Uni in 1992 I really enjoyed one of the lecturers saying that the Yanks had grown "fat, dumb and happy" and it was knocking their global competitiveness and just fuelling the lives of the "bottom dwelling, scumsucking, lawyers" but that's what comes from "hey, not my fault".

NZ grew up on the pioneering spirit of our "can do" forefathers, but slowly but surely the control freaks are winning and we are having it squeezed out of us. Blaming anyone else won't help any of us because it will lead to those that are blamed (e.g. roading authorities) slapping on more and more restrictive rules and regulations. Is that want we want? I don't think so.

As an example if we complain about gravel on the road, you can just see the signs "Not safe for motorcycles" or "Motorcycles Prohibitied".

So don't push it. Those are my thoughts and basically I'm with Motu on this one. If you can't see properly around the corner and the gravel "surprises" you, maybe you gotta think about slowing down in such conditions.

[merv]

So,have you learnt something,or are you going to continue blaming someone else for not keeping your eyes peeled.You sound like my mate who was gunna ''do'' the council when he canned it on white lines in the wet.


Yeah like he couldn't see the white lines and he never knew it was raining.

[scroter]

those resealed bits suck when they do finally sweep them(weve got one gone unswept for a month, great for windscreen companys but not for us bikers) they sweep them all into the nearest side road and dont bother sweeping that. I dont know how many sportsbikes are out there but my tyres dont mind a bit of water spreading but they really struggle with stones no matter what speed. I reckon sweep the road or leave the signs up how many of you have gone down a road no signs, reseal with two tyre tracks and a blood great pile in the middle. al good till you go round a corner

[Motu]

Yeah like he couldn't see the white lines and he never knew it was raining.

It was the jacket he was pissed off about - he held the bike up with his elbow so the bike didn't get scratched.

[Deano]

um for the record-in my case -many years ago-the then MOT contacted the council and the council paid to fix my bike.
The council got it a whole passle of shit over having no sighns on a roadworks area.

There we go then.

There are enough hazards out on the roads without morons creating more.

The Council were obviously negligent, IN THIS CASE at least, but I would also get the insurance company to pay up and chase the Council themselves.

[Ghost Lemur]

There we go then.

There are enough hazards out on the roads without morons creating more.

The Council were obviously negligent, IN THIS CASE at least, but I would also get the insurance company to pay up and chase the Council themselves.

Although that's got it's down sides too. Particularly if he's currently got a no claims bonus and/or high excess.

[Deano]

Although that's got it's down sides too. Particularly if he's currently got a no claims bonus and/or high excess.

I suppose at least he has insurance... :whistle:

[speedpro]

I think if you get caught out by common hazards on the road then you should wear the consequences. However if a trap has been laid such as a bunch of new seal "just" round the corner out of site then something should or should have been done about it. How many corners do any of us go round regularly making allowance for any possible obstacle we may encounter. Generally an allowance is made for expected conditions based on the general conditions prevailing such as road condition, weather, and traffic. To suddenly find that some arsehole has dug a big ditch or spread slippery stuff out when noone would expect it is criminal in my book irrespective of whether it was some council contractor or some dick spreading diesel to do skids. The consequences for the rider are the same.

[FzerozeroT]

yeah, I don't want to claim cause in 2 years when I want an RG500 :P the insurance company will be dodgy over having had a claim just after i started the insurance with the first bike.

I'm not against the idea of experience, why I am going to the rider training day in taupo on the 16th May.

[Drew]

So,have you learnt something,or are you going to continue blaming someone else for not keeping your eyes peeled.You sound like my mate who was gunna ''do'' the council when he canned it on white lines in the wet.
That sounds like a pretty f##kwit thing to say man! :Pokey:
If you cant see the gravel, on the way in, there is no sign, how are you supposed to know its there.
Look at the damage on the bike, it's not like the guy was riding like a lunatic.
More power to him, the council should pay.

[Drew]

[QUOTE=FzerozeroT]

1. coming up to the corner the gravel is not apparant
2. i pulled into the slow trafic lane to avoid the traffic coming up behind me
3. doing about 30 kph after braking
4. turned into corner
5. front wheel slid out
[QUOTE]

1. what is the stuff sitting in the brand new curbing, or covering the fog line in one of your pix?
2. it looks wide enough to put a truck in - i presume that's what it's for
3. fair enuf
4. as you do
5. as it does when there is fresh seal, stones etc....


come on man - it's riding on the road ffs. it could have been anything - i went around french pass for a blast the other day - crested a rising left hander with the sun in my eyes at about 120k, and rode between 2 sheep dogs trotting down the road about 2 metres apart.........if i had have hit them it may have been someone elses contribution to my demise, but it would have been my fault for not taking ALL REASONABLE CARE. your insurer is trying to get out of paying, & the council will never pay. go back to your insurer and tell them - i pay my premiums for this, fix it. it is then their problem to go to the council, not yours. that's what you are paying for them to do.
And had you hit one of those sheep dogs, you would have been looking for the nearest farmer to insert your boot into anally.
I have been paid out by the council so should this guy :moon:

[marty]

And had you hit one of those sheep dogs, you would have been looking for the nearest farmer to insert your boot into anally.
I have been paid out by the council so should this guy :moon:


i don't think so. riding on the road carries inherent danger. you weigh the risks, and wear the consequences. sorry, but i think that f00t is opushing shit uphill trying to get the council to pay..

[Racey Rider]

I want signs when there's cow shit on the road, diesel, cars on the wrong side, cops ahead, etc. I WANT SIGNS FOR EVERYTHING!
Then nothing will be my fault.
Lou

And signs to show where the signs are.
And I don't want to pay for any of it!



As an example if we complain about gravel on the road, you can just see the signs "Not safe for motorcycles" or "Motorcycles Prohibitied".

And no insurance if you ride in those areas.

[madandy]

Sorry to have to say this- but dropping your bike on a patch of gravel only doing 30km/h says something to me... :whistle: keep youir eyes on the road, dude.
try hitting one at 100km/h! and keep it rubberside down...then you know what you are doing.

[merv]

No insurance, yep I reckon it would come to this if bikers keep proving it is a high risk activity. That was my point really don't push the councils too hard or else they will retaliate to ensure they don't waste rate payers money and insurance companies will ensure they look after their shareholders.

[Drew]

No insurance, yep I reckon it would come to this if bikers keep proving it is a high risk activity. That was my point really don't push the councils too hard or else they will retaliate to ensure they don't waste rate payers money and insurance companies will ensure they look after their shareholders.
Does that, not also imply, that people involved in organized sport, will no longer be eligable for health insurance.
I think it very unlikely, anyone would stand for being declined inurance, when they have so many legal arguments to support our claim to being eligable.
Also, we already pay so much in the way of premiums, insurance companies make a killing.

[jrandom]

I think it very unlikely, anyone would stand for being declined inurance, when they have so many legal arguments to support our claim to being eligable.

Neither you nor anyone else has legal recourse against an insurance company deciding that it does not wish to assume any particular risk. Full stop. Sorry. If you don't want to 'stand for it' I'm afraid your only option is to start your own insurance company. Not profitable? Perhaps that's why the existing insurers aren't happy to sell those policies.

Do you think I could reasonably take a supermarket to court for refusing to stock and sell something that only *I* wanted to buy? Read this sometime:

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/65/112/frameset.html

As Merv has implied, the only *real* option you have is to do what you can to ensure that the market for motorcycle insurance remains viable.

[wkid_one]

Neither you nor anyone else has legal recourse against an insurance company deciding that it does not wish to assume any particular risk. Full stop. Sorry. If you don't want to 'stand for it' I'm afraid your only option is to start your own insurance company. Not profitable? Perhaps that's why the existing insurers aren't happy to sell those policies.

Do you think I could reasonably take a supermarket to court for refusing to stock and sell something that only *I* wanted to buy? Read this sometime:

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/65/112/frameset.html

As Merv has implied, the only *real* option you have is to do what you can to ensure that the market for motorcycle insurance remains viable.Ohhh so true. Same way you can't force a bank to open your account or lend you money - just because you think you are good for it. :kick:

At the end of the day - you have to assume some responsibility here. Like Lou said - where does the line get drawn. Do you sue the councils when your bike slips on a white line, or because you hit a tractor pulling out of his field on to the road because you believe they shouldn't have granted access on a blind corner, do you sue them when that 50kph corner actually WAS a 50kph corner. :brick:

Gravel happens - and unfortunately there are multitude of reasons for it....maybe a truck carrying metal to a construction site had a loose tail gate - is this the councils responsibility - or do you try and find the driver and sue them? :argh:

Hell - do you sue god for having sun strike? (sorry zed/ck). :laugh: :laugh:

It is just an accident - stop trying to place blame elsewhere.

It would be like me trying to find the bus that dropped the diesel on the road - and fighting them for the cost of repairing my bike. I didn't - as it was an accident - I should have seen the diesel but didn't and came off, hard. :eek5:

I wish you luck and hope you will - obviously you need the assurance you are a good rider - and with the signs there you wouldn't have fallen off. :Pokey:

My question is that if you were doing 30kph - how the fuck DIDN'T you see the gravel! :rolleyes:

PS - Road signage is no longer the Councils responsibility - it is the contractor completing the works that is responsible for traffic management. After all your hard work - you are just going to get fobbed off by the council as they now contract themselves OUT of this contingent liability. :sneaky2:

[merv]

Does that, not also imply, that people involved in organized sport, will no longer be eligable for health insurance.
I think it very unlikely, anyone would stand for being declined inurance, when they have so many legal arguments to support our claim to being eligable.
Also, we already pay so much in the way of premiums, insurance companies make a killing.

What I was talking about was say you push the Councils too hard by blaming them for your accident it could lead to "Motorcycles Prohibited" type signage whether installed by Councils or their contractors, then what racey rider said was no insurance if you ride in those areas. That was the logic being followed here with no comparison to declining insurance in the first place. Its like if you cause a crash and you are drunk, tough shit no insurance, similarly if you haven't renewed your WOF they can decline paying out because you have not ridden legally. They will happily keep taking your money for the premium but decline paying if you haven't done what you should have when shit happens. So take care blaming others as it can backfire when the others take action to limit their liability.

[Ghost Lemur]

Hell - do you sue god for having sun strike? (sorry zed/ck). :laugh: :laugh:


Damn that's a good movie..*-1

*puts it on to watch*

But on the subject of insurance. If I'm ever in the position as some I've heard about paying rediculous amounts for insurance (ie. $3k p.a.). I would rather invest that money myself and take the chance that I'm not going to have an accident til there's a sizable chunk of cash there.

There is another option (it might have been done overseas but hasn't here), and that's to have a co-op/trust situation. In the way that building societies are not-for-profit and do the job of a bank, but rather than trying to add value for their shareholders they work in the best interest of their customers because they are all they have to answer too. So could a co-op insurer. Instead of having to maximise profits, they only need to cover operations. So at least once there was a realatively nice reserve there it would be easy enough for them to lower premiums because the year before saw less accidents therefore they have an added surplus to refund, and the alternately would obviously also be true.
It seems to have worked well enough for those who use it in the banking field I don't understand why no one is going after the insurance side.

/raging lefty-commy rant

*-1= "The Man Who Sued God" starring Billy Connolly.

[Deano]

[QUOTE=wkid_one]

Gravel happens - and unfortunately there are multitude of reasons for it....maybe a truck carrying metal to a construction site had a loose tail gate - is this the councils responsibility - or do you try and find the driver and sue them? :argh:

Incidentally, that may constitute an insecure load............

My point is that each case needs to be looked at on its own merits.

Too often, negligence is accepted by a simple, "Oh Im terribly sorry, it was an accident".

Thats not very comforting when someone pulls out in front of you and says, "I didn't see you" - Is that an accident or negligence on the part of the driver ?

A careless driving charge for the above would tend to indicate negligence, but with ACC covering injuries suffered,I understand there are not many options to sue, I may be wrong, but the level of sueing will increase as Govt funding for a "free" medical system decreases, just like in America.

Im not griping about the odd bit of gravel or diesel, but fresh seal with no road signs is an unnecessary hazard if you ask me.

[johno]

They are all accidents, but if they can be mostly prevented by a simple sign, like the loose chip sign, then it should happen. It is common sense to post a warning if a known condition endangers others by being an unforseen problem. If the council knew about the chip, it should signpost it in the usual fashion. We get used to warning signs, (it may be different if there never was any to begin with). My friend canned off at 100k on loose gravel on a gentle bend where the road had been repaired. There was a sign coming from the other direction, but none in our direction. May be a more experienced rider would not have canned off, I don't know, but I hardly think it is relevant, we are all riders of various abilities. Evidently there had been a sign, but it was removed the day before! Needed for somewhere else. Cops very graciously (I kid you not) decided they would not prosecute for careless driving in this case as, after inspection, they acknowledged the danger. They claimed they reported these things to the council all the time, but with no effect. There is a limit to how much personal responsibility we should take. Bikes are a legal form of transport, and we should expect to be treated as such.

[spudchucka]

Whats to say the signs weren't put there by the contractor / council and some dickhead passer by decided to nick them for his lounge decoration, (as they do).

If they were sued I don't think it would be too hard for them to cover their arse's.

Yes all hazards should be sign posted but it is ultimately the road users responsibility to ensure they drive to the conditions.

[wkid_one]

Whats to say the signs weren't put there by the contractor / council and some dickhead passer by decided to nick them for his lounge decoration, (as they do).

If they were sued I don't think it would be too hard for them to cover their arse's.

Yes all hazards should be sign posted but it is ultimately the road users responsibility to ensure they drive to the conditions.
Yup - too many variables and I agree - at the end of the day it is your responsibility to ride to the conditions.

This gravel could have happened anyway......however it just so happened near a construction site. Think yourself lucky that you had slowed to 30kph - had it been on the open road you would have hit it as 100kph+....much bigger mess.

Think how expensive your registration etc would be if the Government had to hire little road signage men (or women (in bikinis)) to go around and signpost every possible hazard?

[scroter]

You should claim on your insurance thats what you have it for and if someone else is to blame then the insurance company will try to make them liable and it should not affect your no claims bonus. however if they cant make anyone else liable then it will. I dont know how long you have had insurance for but if its not long you probably wont have much anyway and usually they dont take all your no claims away jus t some of it. :moon:

[White trash]

Workmate of mine (an accomplished ex-raod racer) is taking his girlfriend for a nice ride on the back of his 87 Gixxer 11 around the Shelly Bay Rd here in Wgtn? Wellington riders will know it as it's a scenic peice of costal road with Sweet FA trafic and pretty nice corners. They hold a stage of the Targa NZ rally there.

He's cruising because Jess hasn't been on the back of the bike before and he's just enjoying the scenery.

Goes into a nice turn at around 50kph with the throttle shut and the bike turns sideways. Straighten up as slowing down and they're heading for the bank. Has another shot at turning it and the front washes out, gracefully dumping them on the roadside at about 40kph. "WTF?"

A couple of grazes, both to riders and machine but everyones OK. Let's have a look at the road.

In the couple of months previous, some repairs had happened right the way down this road. It's has a "chip" surface but the repair was asphalt. Sometime after the resurfacing, the contractor had returned to finnish the job by "sealing" the join in surfaces with sand. Just pour it along the crack where the join is and the rest will fall into place. Nice fine, greay, INVISIBLE, sand and not a road sign for miles.

The council were contacted "We'll call you back".

Again, "We'll call you back, we're onto it"

After a letter to a high ranking city counciller, the wheels started turning and now it's in the contractors insurance companies court.

To cut a long story, too bloody right they should be accountable! If they dig a hole in the footpath, don't mark it, and one night when you can't see it, you break your fucking ankle in the thing, they're going to the cleaners.

Do not let them get away with it, keep hounding them weekly 'till they offer a response.

[White trash]

That sounds like a pretty f##kwit thing to say man! :Pokey:
If you cant see the gravel, on the way in, there is no sign, how are you supposed to know its there.
Look at the damage on the bike, it's not like the guy was riding like a lunatic.
More power to him, the council should pay.

Who the hell are you to say someones opinion is "fucktarded"?

Only fucktards have pics of themselves doing wheelies or with their knee down as an avatar........ :Oops: