Attitude

[Skyryder]

The Speeding and Dangerous Driving thread bought a few comments about attitude. Have a bad attitude = cost $$$$.

How many of us have encountered a bad attitude from the Police. I can recall a trip when I was coming home from Hanmer after a hot dip in the pools. I was travelling behind two cars that were doing about 90 95 k's in the rolling hills. I stayed behind these two vehicles for about four to five minutes and when it was safe to pass let rip so as to get back on the right side of the road as soon as pos. Well it so happens that the rear car was a mufti patrol. I slowed down and cruised at about 100k's and soon see the 'dreaded' red flasing light in the mirror. The only thing that saved me was the car must have been the trap car as there was no radar in the vehicle. From the moment this officer and it was a female I could tell that it was her that had the attitude problem, and not myself. Sarcasm and inuendo dripped off her mouth like a salivating dog with a bone in its mouth. This dike and I do not use such words lightly not only checked my licence, rego, personal details etc, but prevented me from my travels for about thirty minutes while she continued to give me a lecture on the evils of speeding. I have no doubt that not having the evidence for an infringment notice she was waiting for me to leave without her permission. This is not the first time this has happened.

Just wondering how many of us out there have struck the Police with an attitude.

Skyryder

[James Deuce]

Only ever struck "the attitude" once, and it was Christmas Day last year.

Check this out: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1500

Other than that I've found being polite works really well. Not greasy sycophant polite, respectful polite.

[wkid_one]

Yup - the fuckwit who pulled me over for 'losing traction' at a set of lights. I took off from the lights (I was at the front - and he was in the car behind the car in the lane next to me) like a bat out of hell - got to 110kph and cruised. He then came up behind me and pulled me over. Asked me to get out of the car, turn the engine off - blah blah blah. Then proceeded to lecture me about reckless driving etc, still not telling me what I'd done - and then started ranting speeding etc. He then finally told me what I had supposedly done. He said I had 'broken traction for a sustained period' at the lights - and he was booking me. Fuckwit

To which I politely replied......'Is that so, perhaps you would like to hop in my car and show me how I can break traction for a sustained period in a VR4?' He just looked at me and went 'huh?'. I then proceeded to tell him it was a 4WD - and with the road perfectly dry.....doing what he said I was doing - I would have left my gearbox at the intersection'.

Absolute wanker - pulled me because I took off quickly and had a boy racer car.

And don't get me started about the Pissant Plod who nicked me on the 'Taka's for knee downing around a corner.....

[Two Smoker]

No do tell about the cop that did you for knee down, as im sure that is going to happen to me soon :argh: ...... So far all the times i have been pulled over (luckily all in a cage) ive been respectful and polite to the cop, and they have been likewise to me.... Even the time at an on ramp i took off not fast but quickly, the car behind me was up my arse (about 6 metres) so i thought the wanted a go, no traffic around so i hoofed it was doing about 145kmh for a couple of kays with this guy following me... i was like ah i give up can't be bothered....... slow down to 110kmh, and thats when the bastard put on the disco lights :argh: Oh well i was at fault and was ready to accept the consequences...... I was respectful to him and polite, as was he..... he then let me off with a warning phew..... just a bit of a stern telling off (which was well deserved), im guessing he didnt give me a ticket due to the fact he didn't have speed gear....(not all of the Police cars are speedo tested) and it was a deserted motorway..... ah well another lesson learned........

[pete376403]

At risk of starting a Biker Angel Jihad, I find females doing a job that was previously an all male preserve (cops, customs officers, hell even vehicle testing station inspectoresses) seem to have an attitude that they have to be harder / tougher / meaner than the equivalent male. In my experience, anyway. And before anyone says they are only giving back what they recieve, this attitude has been apparent from the very first moment of any encounter.

[SPman]

At risk of starting a Biker Angel Jihad, I find females doing a job that was previously an all male preserve (cops, customs officers, hell even vehicle testing station inspectoresses) seem to have an attitude that they have to be harder / tougher / meaner than the equivalent male. In my experience, anyway. And before anyone says they are only giving back what they recieve, this attitude has been apparent from the very first moment of any encounter.
Don't like to say it, but this has been my experience, as well.
At least the male cops smile and sometimes apologise when they write out my tickets!

[Jackrat]

In a previous life I had a couple of cops on the north shore give me a real hard time but they already knew me :o :yeah:
I had a cop stick a gun in my face in Sydney over a car that had been stolen then recovered but hadn't been taken off the books.
Four hairy Kiwi's in a hot car,,I think the cop was more worried than I was.
Other than that Iv'e not had any problems with them.

[FzerozeroT]

Much the same here Wkid, Small town NZ -thats what we do on weekends ;)

Cop who knew my "driving style" but could never get me for anything took offence to a couple of little wheelies I did. Other cops wanted him to drop it but they couldn't be seen to have a divided front in a small town. He ended up "leaving" a few months later because he was not a team player.

[Lou Girardin]

Gee, Guys. If no-one grovels then it's no fun being a cop. May as well be a parking warden.

[Slim]

Most of the cops I've come in contact with have extremely good on the attitude front, although the incidence of being let off these days is disappearing at an alarming rate.

I only had one encounter with a cop south of Meremere who was in my face before I'd even got the side stand down (literally) and after much rightful indignation on my part, eventually backed off after checking my licence. He obviously couldn't prove he'd got me and not a car coming down the hill behind me, but pulled me over simply because I was so far in front of the field. :bash:


Next time, I'm taking name & badge number, because I've since learned that this sort of attitude is not acceptable.

[Motu]

I have had no problems with cops - be quiet and polite,they respond the same.

When I was younger I was getting stopped everywhere,they seemed to know who I was and I would get full bike checks,they were real keen to keep an eye on me.One cop even told my mother that I should look out as they had a file on me a mile long.I was kinda flattered in a way,but really,just for a few speeding tickets? A few months later someone with the same name as me went up on a major drug charge - then the harrasment stopped.Short lived fame.

[aff-man]

Only been pulled over once cop was a dick (highway patrol) was in my face read me the riot act, gave me fines for things that didn't exist (no l plate on a restricted licence) and refused to give me any information on where he had trapped me needless to say i got off the fine. But i was polite and very i don't know if submissive is the word but i spoke quitley yes sir no sir sorta stuff and he still a) was rude and offensive and b) tried to nail me with everything. He took so long looking over the bike trying to find something wrong i almost missed my 10pm restriction. :argh:

[FROSTY]

I guess as you get older maybee your persona or summat changes.
I used to get the whole lecture thing whenever I got pulled over -which I must say was fairly often when i was younger.
Nowadays (touch wood) I havent had any problems with the cops
Most of my road riding is with my son on the back so I guess I ride differently :spudwhat:

[XRNR]

When I was a lad (not long ago), I had a very fast bike in its day, (a bit like you people who ride an R1 now, but a limited edition).

I was riding from Takapuna (Auckland's North shore) to the City over the harbour bridge. I overtook a plain clothes (MOT) cop on the Barry's Point onramp to the motorway. I saw him and just eased passed him at about 105-110. I kept that speed up until I passed the next car. Then as I was in front of the next car I opened it up for a bit, then slowed back to 105-110 and eased in front of the next car & so on & so on, all the time keeping any eye out where the cop was. I just wanted to slowly put a distance between him & me so that I could once again open the bike up, But do this without him being able to do me for speeding.

As I was going down the South side of the Harbour bridge I saw him catching up to me rather quickly, (Not good I thought). At the last minute I decided to take the Shelly beach off ramp & head into Ponsonby hoping he had better things to do.

Uh Uh.

He pulled me over by the Point Erin Pools, were we had a little chat about speeds & speeding & bikes (we both new he couldn't do me for anything). Most of all I think he wanted to check out my bike. Asking me how fast it would go etc etc (Smelling a trap I declined to comment, only to say that it was quite fast, I knew very well its top speed).

He was riding a Yammy 650, or 750 (can't remember what they were) All fitted out with panniers & radios. (They were quite the bees knees when they came out, the fastest cop bike of the time I believe).

He thought quite a lot of his bike & his riding (as did I, back then). At the end of our little chat & after I had told him several times that there was no way he could catch me if I decided to run as his bike was too slow, & him taking offence at that. He challenged me to a race. Back down the motorway heading Nth & up to the end, (which was Sunset road in those days).

I contemplated taking him up on it & would have loved too. But each time I decided to I came up with a reason not too. (none of them being that I might loose). I finally decided not to, on the grounds that if he lost he might not have been as sporting as he appeared to be. & he might have decided to radio ahead for a road block for me.

I was feeling a bit humiliated having decided to back down on a speed test with this guy. But I never got a ticket, had a good chat & a memory that I will cherish. (He didn't stand a chance I know, but I will never know if he knew it).

To the blond COP on the Yammy in the early 80's Thanks. :Police: :)

[wkid_one]

May as well be a parking warden.
In a sick thought of narcicism - I think being a parking warden would be bloody funny - that or a tow truck driver......I would love to do those jobs for a week or so......

[speedpro]

I got an attitude readjustment on the way home tonight. Bike cop parked well back from the edge of the motorway on the NW motorway heading home past the Newton Road on ramp. Me idling past the cars between lanes 2&3 didn't see him till too late which of course was the point of him sitting so far back from the road. Ticket for $150 :doh:

I let him write it out then had a grumpy discussion about what was achieved by ticketing riders for doing what I was doing. The cars were doing about 10Kmh and I was doing about 20kmh. Evidently they could swerve and knock me off and it is dangerous and it's also the law. I'm sure this is the same cop who has given me two warnings in the past.

Now I'm not going to enjoy my rides to and from work as much 'cause I'll be all jumpy about getting another ticket, just when I was beginning to think he'd been moved to somewhere I wasn't and I was happy tootling between the lanes of traffic. The car driving cops don't care, I've stopped and asked a few and I've rung a couple of stations as well and always got the same responce, they just can't be bothered with it in Aucklands traffic. It would appear to be just the one bike riding tosser.

Feelin' a bit better, must write to someone who does matter. :beer:

[spudchucka]

I got an attitude readjustment on the way home tonight. Bike cop parked well back from the edge of the motorway on the NW motorway heading home past the Newton Road on ramp. Me idling past the cars between lanes 2&3 didn't see him till too late which of course was the point of him sitting so far back from the road. Ticket for $150 :doh:

I let him write it out then had a grumpy discussion about what was achieved by ticketing riders for doing what I was doing. The cars were doing about 10Kmh and I was doing about 20kmh. Evidently they could swerve and knock me off and it is dangerous and it's also the law. I'm sure this is the same cop who has given me two warnings in the past.

Now I'm not going to enjoy my rides to and from work as much 'cause I'll be all jumpy about getting another ticket, just when I was beginning to think he'd been moved to somewhere I wasn't and I was happy tootling between the lanes of traffic. The car driving cops don't care, I've stopped and asked a few and I've rung a couple of stations as well and always got the same responce, they just can't be bothered with it in Aucklands traffic. It would appear to be just the one bike riding tosser.

Feelin' a bit better, must write to someone who does matter. :beer:
What was the ticket actually for??

[Lou Girardin]

Gosh, speedpro. He saved your life!
Seriously though, what kind of cretin thinks a cage can suddenly change lanes in 10km/h nose to tail traffic. He's just after easy tickets.
Lou

[MikeL]

I assume the actual ofence is illegal overtaking?

Although most of us do it and think we're fairly safe, there is a slight chance of coming to grief, as I was reminded suddenly a couple of weeks ago when the passenger in the car ahead and to the right of me suddenly opened the door, jumped out and ran round to get in to the driver's seat. At the speed I was doing it wasn't a problem to jam on the brakes and stop in time, but a bit faster, or slower reaction time and I might have hit him (and it would have been my fault).
Hasn't stopped me lane filtering, though...

[RiderInBlack]

I got an attitude readjustment on the way home tonight. Bike cop parked well back from the edge of the motorway on the NW motorway heading home past the Newton Road on ramp. Me idling past the cars between lanes 2&3 didn't see him till too late which of course was the point of him sitting so far back from the road. Ticket for $150 :doh:

I let him write it out then had a grumpy discussion about what was achieved by ticketing riders for doing what I was doing. The cars were doing about 10Kmh and I was doing about 20kmh. Evidently they could swerve and knock me off and it is dangerous and it's also the law.
You probabily could have contested that ticket. Read the following in the BRONZ web site (I think it was in the March Kiwi Rider mag as well): http://www.bronz.org.nz/news/bronz_writes_archive.htm

[pete376403]

That's a good link, RiB.
This bit is especially scary "and remember the officer does not have to hold a motorcycle licence and may not even hold a full car licence yet." Would be interesting to know the licence status of the cops who have been involved in fatal chases, what their experience levels are.

[speedpro]

What was the ticket actually for??
"overtaking when prohibited" was the stated offence

[jrandom]

"overtaking when prohibited" was the stated offence

Contest it. Take it as far as possible and establish a precedent if you can.

The regulations indicate, and we need to establish in court, that filtering is legal when:

- you pass on the right within a lane; or
- you pass on the left when the car is stopped,

provided that:

- all lane changes are correctly indicated; and
- the speed limit for the road is not exceeded; and
- the speed differential is not dangerous (eg, filtering at 95kph through stopped motorway traffic doesn't break the road's speed limit but is obviously dangerous).

Contest it. Please.

[sAsLEX]

I assume the actual ofence is illegal overtaking?

Although most of us do it and think we're fairly safe, there is a slight chance of coming to grief, as I was reminded suddenly a couple of weeks ago when the passenger in the car ahead and to the right of me suddenly opened the door, jumped out and ran round to get in to the driver's seat. At the speed I was doing it wasn't a problem to jam on the brakes and stop in time, but a bit faster, or slower reaction time and I might have hit him (and it would have been my fault).
Hasn't stopped me lane filtering, though...

is not in the law somewhere that it must not cause injury/damage to any vehicle/person the act of opening ones door?? Ie if you open you door and collect a cyclist it is your fault?

[MikeL]

is not in the law somewhere that it must not cause injury/damage to any vehicle/person the act of opening ones door?? Ie if you open you door and collect a cyclist it is your fault?

... unless the cyclist/motorcyclist is "illegally" overtaking on the left? I'm not sure I would want to test it in court...

[k14]

When I lane split on a motorway I try to keep my right indicator on the whole time and try to stay to the left of the lane lines/bumpy things. Then you aren't doing anything illegal, it is white lines and you are passing on the right.

Did you have your indicators on speedpro?

[MikeL]

When I lane split on a motorway I try to keep my right indicator on the whole time and try to stay to the left of the lane lines/bumpy things.

If you can remain to the left of the white line consistently, you are
(a) a much more skilful rider than me
(b) riding a much narrower bike than me
(c) only riding on roads used by courteous, helpful cage drivers.

:no:

[speedpro]

Contest it. Take it as far as possible and establish a precedent if you can.

The regulations indicate, and we need to establish in court, that filtering is legal when:

- you pass on the right within a lane; or
- you pass on the left when the car is stopped,

provided that:

- all lane changes are correctly indicated; and
- the speed limit for the road is not exceeded; and
- the speed differential is not dangerous (eg, filtering at 95kph through stopped motorway traffic doesn't break the road's speed limit but is obviously dangerous).

Contest it. Please.

Referring to your own quoted provisions I have no grounds to contest the ticket. I was in the far right lane but on the left of the cars in that lane. As we are all aware, cage drivers in the right lane keep closer to the median barrier and away from fellow road abusers, which leaves a very useful "lane" for motorcyclists.

One thought I did have was that the cop was parked along the motorway some 50m or so and well off to the left. His view of me was hindered by other vehicles and when he inspected my licence he pulled out his spectacles, noted details,and put them away again. My thought was that if he needed his spectacles to read my licence how well would he have been able to see where I was positioned without them.

[MikeL]

One thought I did have was that the cop was parked along the motorway some 50m or so and well off to the left. His view of me was hindered by other vehicles and when he inspected my licence he pulled out his spectacles, noted details,and put them away again. My thought was that if he needed his spectacles to read my licence how well would he have been able to see where I was positioned without them.

Nice try but it won't work. He can probably show that he has good long-distance vision and only needs glasses for reading. Very common after middle-age!

[sAsLEX]

Arrghhh, splitting all the way from the bridge the other day coming home at about 1730 so traffic was backed up from half-way down the bridge, decide to skip esmonde and get off at northcote as I needed to go to milford. Just as I get past esmonde I suddenly notice a :Police: bike that had been hiding in the traffic flow. Having heard the rules I was just going to pass him anyway but the lack of a displayed L plate made me think twice, took F'n ages because of him!!

[Big Dog]

My most recent experience with mr plod goes somink like this.

Cruising home.

Feeling the zone.

lean forward to better enjoy the lunge of a pass.

Grin from ear to ear.

Tip deep, thow her on her ear.

Whats that in my wing mirror?

F%$#@n disco lights.

No problem. I don't think I am speeding?

Quick speedo check as I hit the bakes and stand her up all at once and try to steer out onto the safety shoulder to pull over. :brick:

Just about lose the whole bike to the a^$e pucker as I realise I am doing 150 while heavy on the brakes. :eek5:

Deep sigh of relief as they go thundering past.

Dawdle home at 100 ( feels bloody slow when your in the zone).

See Cop car pulled over helping stricken cagers ( so why the 170kmph pass to help a cager who probably just ran out of gas?):bleh:


Gravy!

[sAsLEX]

See Cop car pulled over helping stricken cagers ( so why the 170kmph pass to help a cager who probably just ran out of gas?):bleh:


Gravy!

Cause they can and no one can stop them.

[What?]

... unless the cyclist/motorcyclist is "illegally" overtaking on the left? I'm not sure I would want to test it in court...
Hmmmmm. One thing I learned from a week of jury service is "If you want justice, steer well clear of courts".

[Skyryder]

At the risk of sounding ingnorant what is FILTERING?

Skyryder

[riffer]

At the risk of sounding ingnorant what is FILTERING?

Skyryder

Jeez, its funny how its always the Cantabrians ask this question.

Filtering, or lanesplitting, is basically overtaking using the same lane as a car or other vehicle thats already in the lane.

Essential stuff in Welly or Aucks if you need to get to work on time.... :2thumbsup

[Two Smoker]

At the risk of sounding ingnorant what is FILTERING?

SkyryderDon't worry, alot of Southern people seem to ask that.... Filtering is when you lanesplit between cars on the motorway and the cars are moving as you are splitting between them, so you basically straddle the centreline between two lanes... :niceone:

Damn Edit..... Celtic bet me too it lol

[Lou Girardin]

"overtaking when prohibited" was the stated offence

You will need to find out the details of the offence. Then decide whether to contest it. Prohibition sounds like a catch-all, what exactly was prohibited?
Lou

[Marmoot]

Seriously though, what kind of cretin thinks a cage can suddenly change lanes in 10km/h nose to tail traffic.
Lou

?? ?? ??
Lou, you should've known better. The keywords being: AUCKLANDERS
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[spudchucka]

That's a good link, RiB.
This bit is especially scary "and remember the officer does not have to hold a motorcycle licence and may not even hold a full car licence yet." Would be interesting to know the licence status of the cops who have been involved in fatal chases, what their experience levels are.
Out the latest group of "cadets", (17 - 19 year olds as I recall) to graduate only a few of them were still on restricted licences. They have to observe the same licence restrictions that apply to any restricted drivers. Other than these few cadets a full class 1 clean licence was a pre-requesite for recruiting.

[spudchucka]

"overtaking when prohibited" was the stated offence
I will research the offence details for you and PM you if I find anything that may help.

[speedpro]

I will research the offence details for you and PM you if I find anything that may help.
Thanks (too short to send on it's own)

[spudchucka]

Thanks (too short to send on it's own)
You have a PM re this offence.

[speedpro]

You have a PM re this offence.
I"m going to contest it.

Not on the grounds that I wasn't breaking the law but that common sense should have prevailed in this situation. I'm going to get some video footage of typical traffic flows and car positioning within lanes at the approximate time of the "offence". It works out good that there are two overbridges in the immediate area of the "offence so I will be able to get good footage and shots illustrating my contention. I should be able to get someone to come for a cruise in the car around that time as well and get a driver/rider eye view of the traffic.

A celebrity endorsement of the "offence" might put a good light on it as well if anyone lives next door to a bike riding celebrity - John Banks???, Aunty Helen???

If nothing else it will make the issuing officer work for his $150. Maybe if a few more "offenders" contest it as well it might discourage him from issuing tickets for this "offence".

One worry - what are the chances of an increased fine in retribution for contesting this?

[MikeL]

One worry - what are the chances of an increased fine in retribution for contesting this?

Don't worry. You have nothing to lose. Provided you don't delay so long that it becomes overdue you can't be fined any more than the original ticket. If there is ongoing correspondence because you dispute the facts then the original deadline for payment can't apply. How long you can prolong the whole thing depends on how confident you feel about your case. If it were to end up in court and your case was demolished you could be up for additional costs. This could be seen as punitive and a way to discourage other timewasters but I don't think "retribution" is quite the right word.
It's your right to contest the charge and within reason the police and the courts have to allow you the opportunity to do so.
FWIW I contested a $150 ticket for riding in the emergency stopping strip of the Southern Motorway. I sent in a videotape showing how widespread the practice was, along with a semi-humorous letter. No acknowledgement of my submission other than a form letter saying that in this instance they had decided to let me off. Well worth the effort, the cost of a videotape and a 40c stamp!

[wkid_one]

I"m going to contest it.

Not on the grounds that I wasn't breaking the law but that common sense should have prevailed in this situation. I'm going to get some video footage of typical traffic flows and car positioning within lanes at the approximate time of the "offence". It works out good that there are two overbridges in the immediate area of the "offence so I will be able to get good footage and shots illustrating my contention. I should be able to get someone to come for a cruise in the car around that time as well and get a driver/rider eye view of the traffic.

A celebrity endorsement of the "offence" might put a good light on it as well if anyone lives next door to a bike riding celebrity - John Banks???, Aunty Helen???

If nothing else it will make the issuing officer work for his $150. Maybe if a few more "offenders" contest it as well it might discourage him from issuing tickets for this "offence".

One worry - what are the chances of an increased fine in retribution for contesting this?
Make sure you film it with the traffic coming towards you by god. As I would hate to be a biker while you are playing Steve Spielberg as in all likelihood you will be providing the cops with video evidence to ticket every biker splitting at the time you film. Don't laugh too hard at this - sillier things have happened.

[spudchucka]

I"m going to contest it.

Not on the grounds that I wasn't breaking the law but that common sense should have prevailed in this situation. I'm going to get some video footage of typical traffic flows and car positioning within lanes at the approximate time of the "offence". It works out good that there are two overbridges in the immediate area of the "offence so I will be able to get good footage and shots illustrating my contention. I should be able to get someone to come for a cruise in the car around that time as well and get a driver/rider eye view of the traffic.

A celebrity endorsement of the "offence" might put a good light on it as well if anyone lives next door to a bike riding celebrity - John Banks???, Aunty Helen???

If nothing else it will make the issuing officer work for his $150. Maybe if a few more "offenders" contest it as well it might discourage him from issuing tickets for this "offence".

One worry - what are the chances of an increased fine in retribution for contesting this?
The maximum fine for the offence is $500 but I wouldn't worry about getting slapped with that. Sometimes the JP actually imposes a lesser fine than the one given on the instant fine. If you lose the case you will be slapped with Court costs, usually around $130.00.

Good luck and keep us informed as to the outcome.