View Full Version : MotoGP getting safer?
thatHurt
1st May 2006, 14:36
Back in the day Micky Doohan et al used to get pretty banged up. These days no one seems to REALLY hurt themselves too bad.
Seems to be as many downs just less broken bones. What's the reason you reckon? Better tyres/less high-sides/better rider protection?
SimJen
1st May 2006, 14:39
bit of each I reckon. Also a lot of bikes are now running electronic rider aids, plus the four strokes give a smoother power delivery than the old 2 smokers.
James Deuce
1st May 2006, 14:46
The pain will be back next year. 800cc, high rpm, narrow powerband beasties will be more difficult to manage, even with electronic aids.
thatHurt
1st May 2006, 14:52
The pain will be back next year. 800cc
Yeah - should be very watchable me thinks.
vifferman
1st May 2006, 14:54
Better gear in part, plus the new riders are so tiny they bounce easily.
But there are still some bad injuries, like whoever it was that got a handlebar through his guts last year and wrecked his spleen, liver, or whatever.
Mental Trousers
1st May 2006, 15:06
Tracks have improved significantly too. These days there isn't a MotoGP track where a rider can hit a concrete wall unless it's a super freaky 1:100000000 accident.
I'm not entirely convinced the 800's will be peaky either. The 990cc engines are producing so much power that nobody can use it all so dropping down to 800cc doesn't necessarily mean less usable power. On the contrary, riders should be able to use the 800's to their limits. Having said that the first season will end up being the team with the biggest budget will win, ie Honda. But everyone will catch up and I bet the riders find they'll be more fun to ride. After all, Supersport 600's aren't exactly peaky, unridable beasts.
Mr. Peanut
1st May 2006, 16:57
I heard a better idea,
Just drop them down to 4 ratios and keep them @ 1000cc
Smoother power delivery - easier to ride, and a hell of a lot cheaper, especially for the likes of smalll teams like Blata.
800cc just means engines will be working harder.
Might make the sport bike segment interesting tho 800cc r1 :rockon: u never know -would it then be called an R8? And wheres that damn v5 CBR? Stick that in your gsxrk5 pipe and smoke it :D
James Deuce
1st May 2006, 17:03
WCM Blata don't exist any more. I don't understand what you mean about "dropping them down 4 ratios".
Buster
1st May 2006, 17:05
I think track safety plays a big part in it. And those damn two strokes were just so mental :first:
Mr. Peanut
1st May 2006, 17:08
WCM Blata don't exist any more. I don't understand what you mean about "dropping them down 4 ratios".
4 gears instead of 6 - wider ratios. less brutal acceleration. And why do you think WCM doesnt exist anymore? :bye: Do you think well see two strokes become competitive again? And when can I get a v5 CBR???
James Deuce
1st May 2006, 17:14
4 gears instead of 6 - wider ratios. less brutal acceleration. And why do you think WCM doesnt exist anymore? :bye: Do you think well see two strokes become competitive again? And when can I get a v5 CBR???
Ahh I get it now - long day at work.
Check the entry list - WCM doesn't exist anymore. Peter Clifford wound it up at the end of last year when it was apparent that no sponsorship was forthcoming. The Blata engine was crap.
Honda have a vested interest in the 800cc capacity - they can both dominate (more money to throw at the project) and the VFR happens to be - 800cc.
Honda already have a V3 in a test mule too. You probably won't see a V5 CBR now. The CBR will contimue to be the basis for the WSBK contender.
Mr. Peanut
1st May 2006, 17:19
Yeah I know Blata isnt in the GP anymore what I meant was that the reason Blata did so badly is because they were forced to use an outdated engine because of a rules change, they had a sweet un lined up. Anyway I hear they are developing a v6. But I could be wrong.
Go the VFR!!!!!!!
But what about Two strokes? Surely they have a fighting chance now? Oh the humanity!!! Bring back the powerband!! :bye:
ZeroIndex
1st May 2006, 17:20
who saw the amazing recovery of the 250cc MotoGP last night? the back wheel was like 5,000,000 metres off the ground
James Deuce
1st May 2006, 17:24
Yeah I know Blata isnt in the GP anymore what I meant was that the reason Blata did so badly is because they were forced to use an outdated engine because of a rules change, they had a sweet un lined up. Anyway I hear they are developing a v6. But I could be wrong.
Go the VFR!!!!!!!
But what about Two strokes? Surely they have a fighting chance now? Oh the humanity!!! Bring back the powerband!! :bye:
No no no - WCM were the team and they started running with a modified Yamaha R1 chassis and engine, got banned for it not being enough of a prototype, and then made a deal wth Blata for them to supply engines. The engines didn't materialise when they should have and when they did turn up they were utter crap. Blata are a Czech company and make minibikes. A MotoGP engine was a step too far, and the V6 never materialised and never will.
Two strokes are dead in the water and will never return. If they were to ressurect them (hugely unlikely) they would have to change the cc formula, probably dropping them to 3 cylinders and 400cc.
Mr. Peanut
1st May 2006, 17:32
Its a cruel world.
2 strokes were just 2 cool 4 school, 500cc putting out 1000cc powa :D
Hey you never know, two stroke might be back if enough R&D is put into it. :yes:
Actually now might be a good time to invest in an rg500...
White trash
1st May 2006, 18:42
Yup. I reckon Dajiro Kato thinks they're safe as houses.
The manufacturers supposedly use MotoGP to develop prototype technology which will eventually filter down to the consumer. In most countries you simply can't buy a 2 stroke road bike as they can't (yet) be made to meet emission standards. Therefore it is pointless for factories to spend millions developing 2 stroke technology when it can't be used.
If I understand it correctly, the EPA in the US is working to ban 2 stroke recreational vehicles, if that is correct eventually you won't even see a 2 stroke MX bike, Jetski or Outboard. Not unless someone develops a way of making them clean.
Fuel injection will see the return of the two stroke, but possibly in automobiles before motorcycles!
Mental Trousers
1st May 2006, 21:17
That would be direct fuel injection gav. Much cleaner as any air that escapes out the exhaust port isn't carrying fuel as well.
speedpro
1st May 2006, 21:42
West Australian company Orbital Engines were making 2-stroke engines that met all emission requirements some years ago. I think Mercury outboards uses their OCP technology under licence.
I actually called into the factory years ago looking for a job. The original orbital engine was just put on top of some shelving out of the way. Complex bit of gear but very interesting.
http://www.orbeng.com.au/orbital/directinjection/motorcycle.htm
speedpro
1st May 2006, 21:46
This page has a bit of the history and notes the dates the various manufacturers started using the technology.
http://www.orbeng.com.au/orbital/aboutOrbital/history.htm
Yup. I reckon Dajiro Kato thinks they're safe as houses.Ya beat me too it. He was the first since 93 wasn't he?
enigma51
1st May 2006, 22:02
Ya beat me too it. He was the first since 93 wasn't he?
Who died in 93?
If im not mistaken nobody has died on the track until kato died well at least not in motogp/500cc
James Deuce
2nd May 2006, 05:49
http://www.mcnews.com.au/ClassicsCustoms/Riders/classics_jarnos.htm
The 2 strokes were trickier to ride - the highside is typical 2 stroke as they spin up and snatch traction again,we don't see as many highsides these days,in MotoGP it's more typical 4 stroke losing the front.It's always been my biggest worry riding 2 strokes,and my DT230 keeps me on my toes - I'm careful not to give too much coming out of turns,just a stutter bump will spin it up to max revs and the snatch when it hooks up again is scary shit.
enigma51
2nd May 2006, 10:42
http://www.mcnews.com.au/ClassicsCustoms/Riders/classics_jarnos.htm
Thats 73 not 93
James Deuce
2nd May 2006, 10:43
Still 500cc.
cowpoos
2nd May 2006, 10:59
The manufacturers supposedly use MotoGP to develop prototype technology which will eventually filter down to the consumer. In most countries you simply can't buy a 2 stroke road bike as they can't (yet) be made to meet emission standards. Therefore it is pointless for factories to spend millions developing 2 stroke technology when it can't be used.
If I understand it correctly, the EPA in the US is working to ban 2 stroke recreational vehicles, if that is correct eventually you won't even see a 2 stroke MX bike, Jetski or Outboard. Not unless someone develops a way of making them clean.
they will be back...garrenty it!
West Australian company Orbital Engines were making 2-stroke engines that met all emission requirements some years ago. I think Mercury outboards uses their OCP technology under licence.
I actually called into the factory years ago looking for a job. The original orbital engine was just put on top of some shelving out of the way. Complex bit of gear but very interesting.
http://www.orbeng.com.au/orbital/directinjection/motorcycle.htm
yup... v6 250hp mercury outboard...u can go buy one for the last couple of years....and lotus has built a next to no emissions two stroke as a car engine a few years ago...but never did anything with as its not what the market want...
its also interesting how modern four stroke race bikes are using twostroke technologie from decades ago to increase power and usable power....Hmm...they ain't dead yet!
The 2 stroke won't be a go until they take the lubrication oil out of combustion,this can and has been done.2 stroke diesels have always been this way,and direct injection will allow it to be used for petrol engines.Way back in the '80's Nissan had a 2 stroke with cams,valves,crankcase lubrication running....all it needs is direct injection.
cowpoos
2nd May 2006, 13:18
The 2 stroke won't be a go until they take the lubrication oil out of combustion,this can and has been done.2 stroke diesels have always been this way,and direct injection will allow it to be used for petrol engines.Way back in the '80's Nissan had a 2 stroke with cams,valves,crankcase lubrication running....all it needs is direct injection.
that exactly what the lotus and orbital two strokes did...take the lube out of the combustion chamber...
The Orbital's I saw when the patent was first taken out were still pre mix,I thought what a waste of time,no way will it take off until they take the oil out of combustion....maybe I should of told them and made money out of it.
cowpoos
2nd May 2006, 14:47
The Orbital's I saw when the patent was first taken out were still pre mix,I thought what a waste of time,no way will it take off until they take the oil out of combustion....maybe I should of told them and made money out of it.
u sure about the orbital's?
I read an article with it explaning about the super chager type system it used....hmm...I'm not a 100% thou.....
the lotus engine definatly used a supercharger for air intake....
If you do away with crankcase compression you need a blower to supply air,just like a 2 stroke diesel....those early Orbital's were still using crankcase compression.I dismissed Orbital as crap when I saw that,just hot air.If you see any 2 stroke with a positive displacement blower we'll be on the right track as it's giving clean intake air and a complete scavange....then we'll have horsepower with low emissions.
James Deuce
3rd May 2006, 14:18
- For application as from 2007, valid for 5 years minimum:
2.2 Classes
2.2.1 As from January 1st, 2007, in the Motogp class the maximum engine size capacity will be 800cc and 2-stroke engines will not be allowed.
2.6 Fuel tank
2.6.5 The maximum fuel tank capacity will be of 21 litres
cowpoos
3rd May 2006, 15:52
- For application as from 2007, valid for 5 years minimum:
2.2 Classes
2.2.1 As from January 1st, 2007, in the Motogp class the maximum engine size capacity will be 800cc and 2-stroke engines will not be allowed.
2.6 Fuel tank
2.6.5 The maximum fuel tank capacity will be of 21 litres
well yer....but.....hmm.....I know what your.....but....in a.....later on....some....thats.....sort of.....Grrrrrrr....
I'll find the words later....
Ghost Lemur
3rd May 2006, 20:32
If I understand it correctly, the EPA in the US is working to ban 2 stroke recreational vehicles, if that is correct eventually you won't even see a 2 stroke MX bike, Jetski or Outboard. Not unless someone develops a way of making them clean.
California has already banned 2 strokes, hence why the 125's/250's didn't race at Laguna Seca. I heard Dorna tried hard to get an excemption for them to race but Arnie and crew wouldn't have a bar of it.
What's turning me on, is the possibility of Rossi winning this year and so deciding to stay on for one more. Then there would be a chance of him being the first MotoGP rider to win on 3 different spec machines (5 if you include 125 and 250).
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