View Full Version : Future of Kiwi Biker
SpankMe
1st May 2006, 16:34
Doesn't that mean that you'd have to constantly update the server as more and more get posted? Nothing gets deleted?
Yep, thats just expected with sites like this. The site will just keep growing so long as I'm around to look after it.
EDIT:
This thread is not so much about the running cost, but the resources to run it. e.g. people.
I’m not gonna be able to run it forever so the best bet to ensure the site keeps going is to get more people involved in the technical side of running the site. So I need people who have experience with the following…
The server is basically a LAMP/email server.
Linux (http://fedora.redhat.com/)
Apache (http://apache.org/)
MySQL (http://www.mysql.com/)
PHP (http://www.php.net/)
and the email server uses:
postfix (http://www.postfix.org/)
cyrus imap (http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/)
web-cyradm (http://web-cyradm.org/)
squirrelmail (http://squirrelmail.org)
right now could use some help setting up spamassassin (http://spamassassin.apache.org/)
and of cause vBulletin (http://www.vbulletin.com/) which is no small piece of software.
also b2evolution (http://b2evolution.net/) for blogs
HTML & javascript knowledge required for page design.
Server tuning has been an issue lately so have been trying to setup a APC (http://pecl.php.net/package/APC). (PHP caching).
Its attachments that eat up the space on the server. Getting another disk added will increase the rental by $20US/month. Attach as many files as you want, but don't waste space by posting it twice.
you should really think about hosting this thing locally...
... i know people.... good people ;)
sAsLEX
1st May 2006, 16:49
Yep, thats just expected with sites like this. The site will just keep growing so long as I'm around to look after it.
Not to sound so morbid but is there facilities in place should you , ummmm, get lost somewhere so that KB can continue on?
SpankMe
1st May 2006, 16:56
you should really think about hosting this thing locally...
... i know people.... good people ;)
Looked at that. It's about 3 times the cost.
SpankMe
1st May 2006, 16:57
Not to sound so morbid but is there facilities in place should you , ummmm, get lost somewhere so that KB can continue on?
Nope. If the SUV drivers finally achieve their goal of killing me, then the site wont be around much longer after that.
MidnightMike
1st May 2006, 17:04
Yep, thats just expected with sites like this. The site will just keep growing so long as I'm around to look after it.
Someone get this guy a body guard. :angry: :nono: :angry:
let me know the specs and what is involved and ill ask a few of our customers and see if anyone will do a deal for us :)
SpankMe
1st May 2006, 17:37
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=15827
sAsLEX
1st May 2006, 17:37
let me know the specs and what is involved and ill ask a few of our customers and see if anyone will do a deal for us :)
I am sure no one would mind a hosted by " company x" on the site somewhere
18th August 2005
is it still roughly current tho?
Colapop
1st May 2006, 20:13
I am sure no one would mind a hosted by " company x" on the site somewhere
It'd be a fine line - having a commercial free site hosted by "company X". There is no return on an investment unless you allow people to access the sponsor. Then you get into the whole ads for the masses, popups, links... etc.
I think though that for Spank's sake and the sake of the site community that there maybe be a backup of some sort. Spank on holiday for any length of time or illness or anything else... This place is not only a fantastic resource of people and knowledge, it's also a community.
Loves and hugs and all that shit aside - I'd hate to see anything really bad happen to this place.
froggyfrenchman
1st May 2006, 20:20
too true cola.
pyrocam
2nd May 2006, 08:08
the future of KB?
31171
way off base I think
commericals sponserships product placement etc:rockon: , would be a great way to help with money, but dam the paperwork and crap would be a pain in the backside.
if you could go that way you would probably get a huge ammount of money, considering the ammount of bikers that log on.
the paper work would be the messy part.
spank don't know how ya do it all but thanks heaps bro.
mind you i am sure businesses out there could give you free gear to wear. that would help with the cost of the site.:wait:
but seriously you do a wicked job spank. don't know what we would do without you.:crybaby:
Squeak the Rat
2nd May 2006, 09:48
The site will just keep growing so long as I'm around to look after it.
I hope that's not a hint! I don't have the answer to anything today (got the @#$ flu), but a small bit of ping is incoming help pay for upgrades or a beer.
One suggestion I have is...no direct advertising BUT a 'link' page to motorcycle-related businesses in the form of a directory. $10...$20...? per month to maintain their info.
Only trouble with any form of advert for money is the constant need for admin
Colapop
2nd May 2006, 10:07
I think the money aspect is part of the picture but just as much is the admin side of things. Without getting into the whole administrators/mods arguement - the question is if Spank decides to discontinue this site for any reason then a community gets disbanded (possibly) unless there are others to maintain and uodate the site.
Mr Pop - I know that is the 'problem'. Thing is, there are not many people out there with the ability, resources and commitment to want to run a site like Spank does. If it was self-funding, that might help.
Grahameeboy
2nd May 2006, 10:14
Mr Pop - I know that is the 'problem'. Thing is, there are not many people out there with the ability, resources and commitment to want to run a site like Spank does. If it was self-funding, that might help.
I agree MSTRS.....we should not take Spankme for granted and if we really want site to continue we need to look ahead...
Warren
2nd May 2006, 10:18
The image below shows a possible upgrade path for when the site outgrows a single server.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimedia-servers-2005-04-12.png
The image below shows a possible upgrade path for when the site outgrows a single server.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimedia-servers-2005-04-12.png
dam i'll stick to riding bikes you I.T boys are totally speaking another language.
but a directory of listings might be a way to go. to help subsidise (spelling?) spank for all the work and to keep the site open.
but that again sounds like a problem for gst returns etc. even donations would be hard to write off for some companies. dam regs
Badcat
2nd May 2006, 11:40
Mr Pop - I know that is the 'problem'. Thing is, there are not many people out there with the ability, resources and commitment to want to run a site like Spank does. If it was self-funding, that might help.
i donate $5 a month by automatic payment.
if a bunch of us did it.......
k
dont wanna have to turn it into an incorporated society... thats an ass, trust me! re: SDU
maybe something like a gold coin donation for rides such as ckchk's thursday night rides?
15-20 bikes/night could go a long way to maintaining a well setup server.
just ideas.
dont wanna have to turn it into an incorporated society... thats an ass, trust me! re: SDU
maybe something like a gold coin donation for rides such as ckchk's thursday night rides?
15-20 bikes/night could go a long way to maintaining a well setup server.
just ideas.
yeah man thats a start. but i guess it's upto spank, money is there but what happens if he wants a break.or how much can we bribe him :yes:
spank you ever thought it would get this big?
donations and direct debt are an awesome idea.
think ill set one up too.
You wanna save on bandwidth and server space... kill sniper.
Simple, effective.
Failing that, gold coin donations on rides, advertised beforehand, don't just spring it on people.
Next newbie ride (date TBC) will be GCD.
RantyDave
2nd May 2006, 12:43
Sorry, late in but ... what's this thread here for? There doesn't *appear* to be an ongoing problem. However, FWIW:
Is hosting becoming a problem? $90US for 200GB/month of International traffic is a shitload cheaper than buying it in NZ. However, 60% of the traffic appears to come from NZ, some NZ ISP's offer zero marginal cost national traffic to commercial users at least ... including my current employers ... and we get about 4MBit/sec to Auckland. I would have a problem proposing that we use our connection for a bikers website however - I don't think it would go down all that well. There might be mileage in doing a swap of some description however, particularly if there's a shit hot PHP developer involved.
More serious are the implications for KB if Spank gets (say) knocked off his bike. Despite what software vendors might tell you, this shit does not run itself and the cost of time is huge. There's also a red bus scenario around meganet (or whatever they are called) going under, or failing to pay a bill somewhere etc. etc. Has the site now grown large enough and relevant enough that KB disappearing off the face of the earth for a few weeks would be a really big problem? If so, what are we going to do about it?
OTOH I see from the usage logs that the site gets 400k hits/day. That, my friends, is one and a half metric shitloads of traffic. I would be surprised, nay, gobsmacked if Spank couldn't cover his costs and have a non-irrelevant amount left over from even just running google adwords. I imagine there's quite a lot of knowledge in the world about combining adwords with vBulletin as well.
Oh, and as if it were attempting to prove a point we appear to have lost one of the disks from our raid set. Oh well, back to work...
Dave
Colapop
2nd May 2006, 13:18
"...More serious are the implications for KB if Spank gets (say) knocked off his bike. Despite what software vendors might tell you, this shit does not run itself and the cost of time is huge...."
The rest went straight over my head but the bit quoted is my point. I'm not saying it's just about cash. Everybody should do their bit and I'm not going to parade around here saying how I do or don't do. The point is that the work (Time/effort) it takes to upkeep this site (plus other sites he maintains) take a lot of effort and that can take it's toll. I'm talking about ensuring that whatever the future holds that this site/community can continue. It's a gimme that it's conditional on Spankme's blessing etc but this is not about being selfish (for the site) but making sure of it's longevity by taking the pressure off (mostly Spankme)
R6_kid
2nd May 2006, 13:31
goto www.r6-forum.com and see what we put it up with there. Its great to come here and just post and not have to look at 10 blinking and flashing adverts.
you need a balance. nothing wrong with 1 or 2 simple ads if it helps things run smoother.
it aint a porn site remember. we arent talking about popups and flashing boobs everywhere... although nothing wrong with boobs in ya face from time to time ;)
this seems to be the general concensus from our hosting customers...
keep it in yankeeland, he will not get better pricing than he has now anywhere outside the US...
was worth a shot i guess.
Mental Trousers
2nd May 2006, 14:41
The main problem is that if SpankMe gets run over by an SUV tomorrow it's the authority etc on things like DNS name, server accounting stuff blah blah that's isn't covered. Were the unfortunate to happen tomorrow people would likely throw money into the pot to keep the place going in the interim (hell I know I would). So really, Spank needs someone who can step in and take over the core duties/responsibilities. The admins etc will sort shit out among them, finances for the short term would be enough to keep the place alive until something is sorted, likewise server hosting will be fine in the short term blah blah. Past 2 months in an emergency is where the problem is.
SpankMe
2nd May 2006, 14:45
I've updated the first post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=596261#post596261) with details of the things people would need to have experience in if they wanted to help out on the technical side.
To give you an idea of the work involved, here's my todo list of most of the stuff I've needed to do since the last upgrade. Security related stuff not included of cause.
vBulletin
Trader avatar not censored
Install real ip hack (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=95198)
User notes page layout redesign
Bike Trader edit field check not working
Total members on homepage should not include unconfirmed users
Upgrade Coppermine Gallery to 1.4.4
<STRIKE>Allow users to always edit first post</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add search options to image browser</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Improve image browser SQL query</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update vBadvanced CMPS</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Homepage avatar not censored</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add users gallery link to profile pulldown</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Forum Leaders page to start with team leaders</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update Black & Gold style</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Bike Trader delete option</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update Black & Gold style</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Upgrade vB to 3.5.3</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Reported post for Senior Mods</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Re setup avatar censor</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install google site map (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=91389)</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add KB header/footer to gallery</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix image browser permissions</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Image censor checkbox not setting</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Enable censor when using [attach] vB code</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Image censor not working when image same size as thumbnail. "class_postbit"</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install XSS (cross site scripting) security patch</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Avatar upload problem with filedata column</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install Welcome Headers (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99579) hack</STRIKE> rejected
<STRIKE>Update links page to newer version</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update arcade to newer version</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Setup Coppermine Gallery vB bridge</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Check buddy list viewing permissions for personal info</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Profile pic thumbs still not right</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Disallow guest attachment viewing but not trader attachments</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add better IP logging to track multiple accounts</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update arcade to work with 3.5</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix site discounts page</STRIKE> removed
<STRIKE>Fix image browser filter links</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Setup modcp to update FAQ</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix profile picture thumbnailing</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add extended sort options to profile pics page</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Setup view thread images in thread tools</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update Javachat to new version</STRIKE> done
Flame Warrior
bikead.value is null javascript error when posting
FW avatar change should remove censor
note editing and BB code/smilie enable.
Remove FW nomination postbit display if not seconded after set period
Fix Flame Warrior phrases
<STRIKE>Enable comment view by nominee</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Flame Warrior postbit display code causing posting errors</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Flame Warrior admin interface setup</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix Flame Warrior avatar display</STRIKE> done
Calendar/Events
<STRIKE>Mini month calendars on default page not displaying correctly for guests</STRIKE> done
Test event forum/calendar integration hack
Test event thread location prefix (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99925) hack
<STRIKE>Fix todays events on homepage</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Birthdays on homepage not displaying</STRIKE> done
Blog
Setup webalizer usage for blogs
Insert img code into post in IE
<STRIKE>Account logout problem</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Post preview: member function error: check_perm</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Category edit not displaying</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Blog RSS feed module collapse cookie not working</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install extra skins</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install b2evolution blog server software</STRIKE> doneServer
Compile and install APC (Another PHP cacher)
<STRIKE>Setup boolean searches.</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Set MySQL min word length to 3. Last attempt caused table crashes :(</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Upgrade MySQL to 4.1.18</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>yum GPG key incorrect</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Exceeding max MySQL connections</STRIKE> doneWebmail server
sender canonical map lookup problem for apache
Setup spamassassin
Thumbnail display for attched images
Username display
<STRIKE>Fix change password plugin</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Change login page style</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add usage bar</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>User ability to change password</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix small calendar</STRIKE> doneStuff to add to FAQ
Basic chat info
Personal info and buddy lists
How to change L-Plater title
Retrieving lost passwords
Stuff to add to FAQ
Basic chat info
Personal info and buddy lists
How to change L-Plater title
Retrieving lost passwords
Shouldn't take long to write up a few paragraphs on these ones...
If anyone wants to write something up and post it in here perhaps? If not then I'll knock something up when I finish work this evening.
SpankMe
2nd May 2006, 14:58
Post FAQ additions in the FAQ thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=305). All the mods have access to update the FAQ.
cowpoos
2nd May 2006, 15:03
I've updated the first post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=596261#post596261) with details of the things people would need to have experience in if they wanted to help out on the technical side.
To give you an idea of the work involved, here's my todo list of most of the stuff I've needed to do since the last upgrade. Security related stuff not included of cause.
vBulletin
Trader avatar not censored
Install real ip hack (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=95198)
User notes page layout redesign
Bike Trader edit field check not working
Total members on homepage should not include unconfirmed users
Upgrade Coppermine Gallery to 1.4.4
<STRIKE>Allow users to always edit first post</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add search options to image browser</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Improve image browser SQL query</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update vBadvanced CMPS</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Homepage avatar not censored</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add users gallery link to profile pulldown</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Forum Leaders page to start with team leaders</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update Black & Gold style</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Bike Trader delete option</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update Black & Gold style</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Upgrade vB to 3.5.3</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Reported post for Senior Mods</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Re setup avatar censor</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install google site map (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=91389)</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add KB header/footer to gallery</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix image browser permissions</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Image censor checkbox not setting</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Enable censor when using [attach] vB code</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Image censor not working when image same size as thumbnail. "class_postbit"</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install XSS (cross site scripting) security patch</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Avatar upload problem with filedata column</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install Welcome Headers (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99579) hack</STRIKE> rejected
<STRIKE>Update links page to newer version</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update arcade to newer version</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Setup Coppermine Gallery vB bridge</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Check buddy list viewing permissions for personal info</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Profile pic thumbs still not right</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Disallow guest attachment viewing but not trader attachments</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add better IP logging to track multiple accounts</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update arcade to work with 3.5</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix site discounts page</STRIKE> removed
<STRIKE>Fix image browser filter links</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Setup modcp to update FAQ</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix profile picture thumbnailing</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add extended sort options to profile pics page</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Setup view thread images in thread tools</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Update Javachat to new version</STRIKE> done
Flame Warrior
bikead.value is null javascript error when posting
FW avatar change should remove censor
note editing and BB code/smilie enable.
Remove FW nomination postbit display if not seconded after set period
Fix Flame Warrior phrases
<STRIKE>Enable comment view by nominee</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Flame Warrior postbit display code causing posting errors</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Flame Warrior admin interface setup</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix Flame Warrior avatar display</STRIKE> done
Calendar/Events
<STRIKE>Mini month calendars on default page not displaying correctly for guests</STRIKE> done
Test event forum/calendar integration hack
Test event thread location prefix (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99925) hack
<STRIKE>Fix todays events on homepage</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Birthdays on homepage not displaying</STRIKE> done
Blog
Setup webalizer usage for blogs
Insert img code into post in IE
<STRIKE>Account logout problem</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Post preview: member function error: check_perm</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Category edit not displaying</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Blog RSS feed module collapse cookie not working</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install extra skins</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Install b2evolution blog server software</STRIKE> doneServer
Compile and install APC (Another PHP cacher)
<STRIKE>Setup boolean searches.</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Set MySQL min word length to 3. Last attempt caused table crashes :(</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Upgrade MySQL to 4.1.18</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>yum GPG key incorrect</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Exceeding max MySQL connections</STRIKE> doneWebmail server
sender canonical map lookup problem for apache
Setup spamassassin
Thumbnail display for attched images
Username display
<STRIKE>Fix change password plugin</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Change login page style</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Add usage bar</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>User ability to change password</STRIKE> done
<STRIKE>Fix small calendar</STRIKE> doneStuff to add to FAQ
Basic chat info
Personal info and buddy lists
How to change L-Plater title
Retrieving lost passwords
this man needs a DB [he'ld be better off with a tui though]
deserves a Corona with a lime for that effort... dont be stingy with the DB/Tui etc ;) thats almost a slap in the face! haha
i know what its like to admin a forum or two... big high5 for spankme. :first:
Sorry guys I'm tech challenged so all that got me lost-er :doobey:
Best I can do to "help" is collect $1+ per rider on the rides up this way and 100% will be put back into KB.
Cheers Spank...appreciate all you time 'n efforts on KB sir.
pyrocam
2nd May 2006, 16:53
Sorry guys I'm tech challenged so all that got me lost-er :doobey:
Best I can do to "help" is collect $1+ per rider on the rides up this way and 100% will be put back into KB.
Cheers Spank...appreciate all you time 'n efforts on KB sir.
myself I disaprove of the 'donation' collecting for rides. if people want to make a donation they can paypal or make deposits, maybe even buy some merch?
http://www.cafepress.com/kiwibiker,kiwibiker_bike,kiwibiker_back
but hey I dont do the publicly organised rides anymore anyway. go nuts!
edit: oh wait no. its not another funding run thread. carry on.
Just curious, how much bandwidth does this site go through a month?
Edit: Should read b4 i post
One other thing I wonder...
Time now is 01:46 and there are;
5 members and 61 guests online... seems all the guests are search engine bots...
In my limited knowledge of HTML I know you can specify pages not to list / search links from... and even have a Robots.txt file that tells them to get knotted or something...
Anyways... point of this post... surely these bots use up a lot of bandwidth on their own, so might be an idea to stop them searching every page, and only index the front page?
One other thing I wonder...
Time now is 01:46 and there are;
5 members and 61 guests online... seems all the guests are search engine bots...
In my limited knowledge of HTML I know you can specify pages not to list / search links from... and even have a Robots.txt file that tells them to get knotted or something...
Anyways... point of this post... surely these bots use up a lot of bandwidth on their own, so might be an idea to stop them searching every page, and only index the front page?
Search bots aren’t a bad thing, they do index the site and encourage new visitors, if you want to shave a quick bit of bandwidth fat off, just ask yourself this;
Q: Who the hell uses the Ask Jeeves search engine?
A: No one! (Google owns all)
Then why did they chew through 20.24 GB of bandwidth last month alone. Don’t block all robots, just block ask.com
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