Police working to a quota?? Surely not...

[emaN]

Highway patrol and STU tend to be deployed on day shifts and late shifts to 2300, sometimes 0300.

:sherlock::devil2:

if you know what i mean...

[Patrick]

Personally I blame the lazy coppas....

YEP, its all their fault you speed....

[Patrick]

me i like the "fish n chip act 2006" the best

Shit... its been amended? I had better update myself....

[Patrick]

STATISTICS AND DAMN LIES , THE PIGS MANIPULATE REPORTS AND FIGURES AND THEN YOU PROUDLY SPOUT THEM OFF LIKE FACTS, ITS JUST A FCKEN MONEY GRAB SO STFU


Pfft... you quote stats all the time! Like the one recently where you said, (or words to the effect of) "stats show everyone thinks cops are wankers and I wanna fuck your mum in the arse..." or summit like that... can't remeber now...

[Squeak the Rat]

YEP, its all their fault you speed....
I was going to say chill out dude I was taking the piss if which you would have realised if you read my post and the preceding ones, but then I saw your last one and am thinking you might be too......:rofl:

still don't agree with whatever it is you cops are saying though....

[Grahameeboy]

Cynicism is the healthiest mental state. You're never disappointed or depressed.
Buggered if I know how optimists get through life. Just one bitter disappointment after another.

You have to be an optimist to know that Lou....you miss out....Cynics are just confused

[Squeak the Rat]

You have to be an optimist to know that Lou....you miss out....Cynics are just confused
Acording to current pyschology doctrine, pessimists have a more realistic view on life. Optimists do in fact suffer from delusion.

Besides the point, and off topic so no further correspondance entered into. Please carry on.

Tune in next week when Constable Bob says, "Quota?? I didn't even hear what she said!"

[Patrick]

I was going to say chill out dude I was taking the piss if which you would have realised if you read my post and the preceding ones, but then I saw your last one and am thinking you might be too......:rofl:

still don't agree with whatever it is you cops are saying though....


Well spotted squeaky..... rofl myself... you disagree with discretion??? Coz that is what we have been saying...

[Patrick]

Yes, you've mentioned that before and yet I still feel compelled to make you look like an idiot for posting such a pathetic statement. Fact: the police are having very little effect on the road toll. Targetting speeding is not working and has never worked in any other country.

On a positive note, your new boss is really cute. She's bursting with experience and I'm sure she'll be able to regain the lack of public confidence in the police.

Now go polish those booties and make me proud.

HELENS CUTE? YOU SICK FUCK...

[ldnz]

Isn't Annette King the current boss chick?

[ldnz]

Not suggesting thats anything to be proud of...

[Patrick]

how bout catching burglers b4 they become speeders , it makes more sense than catching speeders to see if their burglers.
and if you get caught burgling a house it should be an instant 28 days loss of licence , infact by not taking the licence off a repeat offender the jstice system is actually helping them to commit more theft , fuck the pigs are dumb arses

Yeah,right,.... again....:zzzz: When you use a vehicle in the commission of an offence,we will seek disqualification.... up to the court to impose, not us! You the dumb arse!

[SPORK]

<embed src="http://josh.clunkbin.com/sound/mud.swf" hidden="true">

I dunno. who relay cares. i dont get pulled ovar.

[N4CR]

I dunno. who relay cares. i dont get pulled ovar.
Hahahaahahhaahahah nice one ;) I'll keep the secret!

You don't even have a road bike you plonk.

See you in LOTPIGHAD.

[Squeak the Rat]

WTF??? Who did that and how???? Mud red blood....

Bloody brilliant :yes:

[roogazza]

HELENS CUTE? YOU SICK FUCK...

She's also anti police, but accepts she has to have a few around.
A couple I know have had it made known to them that she doesn't want them as personal protection !!!

Sue Bradford , now there's a honey !!!!! Gaz.

[terbang]

First off there is no quota, I can issue as many notices as I like.

Now that i have your attention here is the way i see it.

I am in traffic enforcement and enjoy it. Reason being, how do your burglars, rapist and all other shitheads get around, they bloody drive. Do they walk down the road with your tv, video and other items in their car, NO.

I have had more arrest of burglars and other serious offenders than some of my mates on the front line. Why because I am mobile and can be anywhere at anytime as i have a set area but can cover other areas when required.

.
Oh and speed cameras do the same..?

[Lou Girardin]

Yes Madam, I am investigating your burglary. I did 40 hours traffic enforcement this week.
These guys all use the same PR firm.

[Squeak the Rat]

None of your mates on the front line investigate burglaries, so of course you catch more burglars.....

[Edit:] About 3 years ago there was a speight of about 5 armed robberies on banks in as many days within a couple of mile radius in Mt Eden. You would have thought by the sixth one the cops would have clicked and arranged a stake out or something, but no they got away.

[spudchucka]

All you experts should join up, it would make a huge difference having a bunch of such enlightened experts in the force. In fact, you're all so on to it you'll probably be exempt from having to do the recruit course and just go straight to the coal face; "Here you go son, take this ticket book and go catch us some burglars"!

[Squeak the Rat]

In fact, you're all so on to it you'll probably be exempt from having to do the recruit course and just go straight to the coal face;
Probably a good thing - bypass the brainwashing :rofl:

[Finn]

All you experts should join up, it would make a huge difference having a bunch of such enlightened experts in the force. In fact, you're all so on to it you'll probably be exempt from having to do the recruit course and just go straight to the coal face; "Here you go son, take this ticket book and go catch us some burglars"!

I'm not allowed to join. I asked once and they said "I don't think so Finn"

[The_Dover]

They don't take recruits with a criminal record or GCSE's do they?

[Indoo]

[Edit:] About 3 years ago there was a speight of about 5 armed robberies on banks in as many days within a couple of mile radius in Mt Eden. You would have thought by the sixth one the cops would have clicked and arranged a stake out or something, but no they got away.

I am sure that never occured to any of the detectives or intel analysts, what a ground breaking thought Sherlock. Because we all know that in Auckland Police are so overstaffed and detectives so underworked that they have the luxury to be able to stake out every bank in the Central Auckland area with armed staff.

Lemme guess your also one of the internet experts who spout off after every Police shooting, why didn't they just shoot him in leg?

[Squeak the Rat]

I am sure that never occured to any of the detectives or intel analysts, what a ground breaking thought Sherlock. Because we all know that in Auckland Police are so overstaffed and detectives so underworked that they have the luxury to be able to stake out every bank in the Central Auckland area with armed staff.

Lemme guess your also one of the internet experts who spout off after every Police shooting, why didn't they just shoot him in leg?
Thats the point. Where were the cops?

It was so obvious that it would happen again that the bank tellers were shit scared the day before the last robbery. The guy who served me said "I bet we are next". He was right.

$100 says that if i had driven 65km/hr up the road that day i would have got a speeding ticket from a police officer. Priorities huh?

BTW - when I talk about "the cops" it isn't usually aimed at individuals, rather the organisation. If you can't distinguish between the two then lets hope you don't make detective.

[Indoo]

BTW - when I talk about "the cops" it isn't usually aimed at individuals, rather the organisation. If you can't distinguish between the two then lets hope you don't make detective.

Clueless people spouting on like experts about something they have no clue about irritate me regardless of what or who they are talking about. I don't like Keith Locke either, so your not alone.

[Lou Girardin]

Spare us the under-staffed rubbish indoo, they can find them when they want to.

[Finn]

Thats the point. Where were the cops?

They were robbing the banks stupid. We know they are rapists so what makes you think they are not up to robbery?

[The_Dover]

Spare us the under-staffed rubbish indoo, they can find them when they want to.


Yeah, just look for the nearest gang bang.

[Squeak the Rat]

Clueless people spouting on like experts about something they have no clue about irritate me regardless of what or who they are talking about. I don't like Keith Locke either, so your not alone.
Yeah, ranks up there with people who fire personal insults behind the anonymity of the internet.


I am sure that never occured to any of the detectives or intel analysts, what a ground breaking thought Sherlock. Because we all know that in Auckland Police are so overstaffed and detectives so underworked that they have the luxury to be able to stake out every bank in the Central Auckland area with armed staff.
So you're saying that what I said occured to the analysts and detectives. And you're saying that I'm clueless? So if we thought the same things you are calling cops clueless? Good argument there....

[MWVT]

I'm going to be unpopular, but here goes:

We all accept that going slower, all other things being equal, means less people die.
However if we decide that we should minimize road deaths/injury as much as is possible, we are going to be setting some seriously low speed limits. Somewhere around the point where crash deaths balance with road rage deaths I reckon.

So bearing in mind that road deaths are going to occur whatever the speed limit, as a society we have to draw the line where we believe the cost in life and injury is worth it for the benefits (economic, social, quality of life, having fun etc.) I for one think the line could stand a few extra kms per hour under it.

I know this sounds brutal to those who have lost loved ones on the road (that includes me). But it's still what i think.

For me the bleating when one gets a ticket is silly (but completely understandable), we should be bleating about what the law says, because after all cops are just enforcing it. As we saw in snipers hijacked FFS thread, cops struggle to enforce laws that don't exist.:yes:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=19565

[Indoo]

Spare us the under-staffed rubbish indoo, they can find them when they want to.

Thanks for enlightening me, I must have been dreaming then 3 years ago when we were considered extremely lucky to have one front line car and an enquiry car for the entire East Auckland area on a busy nightshift.

If we were that undermanned on the front line just how do you think they could spare enough detectives and plain cars to sufficiently stake out all banks in the central city area? Or would you rather they interupted and screwed up murder/rape investigations by pulling staff off those.



So you're saying that what I said occured to the analysts and detectives. And you're saying that I'm clueless? So if we thought the same things you are calling cops clueless? Good argument there....

What I'm saying is that obviously if they could they would have, but you seem to think its some kinda T.V series where Police actually have the resources and staff to do such thing. But hey keep thinking all cops are useless cos they failed to stake out every bank in Mt Eden back in the great armed robbery spree of 2002.

[Swoop]

Spare us the under-staffed rubbish indoo, they can find them when they want to.
Highschools now I guess...

[The_Dover]

Thanks for enlightening me, I must have been dreaming then 3 years ago when we were considered extremely lucky to have one front line car and an enquiry car for the entire East Auckland area on a busy nightshift.


Fuck, I bet that has increased a shit load now they've got a Dunkin Donuts drive-thru at Botany


But hey keep thinking all cops are useless cos they failed to stake out every bank in Mt Eden back in the great armed robbery spree of 2002.

It's not fucking Wall Street, how many banks are there in Mt Eden??

One pig with a box of Dunkin Donuts at each one, and those lovely little radios, could have his porcine friends there in a matter of minutes. And even if he got shot whilst waiting the others would still get the bad guys I imagine.

[Squeak the Rat]

What I'm saying is that obviously if they could they would have, but you seem to think its some kinda T.V series where Police actually have the resources and staff to do such thing. But hey keep thinking all cops are useless cos they failed to stake out every bank in Mt Eden back in the great armed robbery spree of 2002.
Yep, you obviously know what I'm thinking.

As explained, I am arguing about the organisation. And that is exactly the point of this thread: lack of resources, or more specifically where these resources are assigned.

Chill out and check out my earlier post where I was asking some one not to make it personal about indvidual coppas.

[Skytwr]

I see now we have moved to the number of cops on the street.

How about you guys and girls put as much affort into putting your view to your local MP's try and get the change.
Yea you can have go at the cop on the street for doing what he is told, mostly that they are just trying to get through the day with out any problems. In South Auckland we burn out cops at ahigher rate than other areas. Why because of the workload and the staff to population ratio. South Auckland is expected to have the population increase of Dunedin in 10 years but no substantial increase in Police, Fire, Ambo's and other much needed services.
Start emailing the MP's and give them the news that you are pissed off and want some action.

[The_Dover]

But the pollies don't bite back as much.

[Finn]

How about you guys and girls put as much affort into putting your view to your local MP's try and get the change.

That is the funniest thing I heard in ages.

Call your local MP. Fucking brilliant. :laugh:

[Ixion]

I see now we have moved to the number of cops on the street.

How about you guys and girls put as much affort into putting your view to your local MP's try and get the change.
Yea you can have go at the cop on the street for doing what he is told, mostly that they are just trying to get through the day with out any problems. In South Auckland we burn out cops at ahigher rate than other areas. Why because of the workload and the staff to population ratio. South Auckland is expected to have the population increase of Dunedin in 10 years but no substantial increase in Police, Fire, Ambo's and other much needed services.
Start emailing the MP's and give them the news that you are pissed off and want some action.

About two years ago I spent many many hours , and many stamps (with my local Ratepayers Assn President hat on) corresponding with the various MPs, the Minister of Police and the Police Commissioner. Seeking extra police for our area.

The result was a great big "get lost, the Commissioner of Police assures me that there are enough police to do the job.".

Not much point hitting up the MPs if the Police bigwigs reckon there's enough.

Maybe you need to take the point up with the Commissioner, through the Police Association

I can assure you that there will be NO trouble getting community support for more General Duties police.

[Indoo]

Yep, you obviously know what I'm thinking.

As explained, I am arguing about the organisation. And that is exactly the point of this thread: lack of resources, or more specifically where these resources are assigned.

Chill out and check out my earlier post where I was asking some one not to make it personal about indvidual coppas.

Fair enuff, I have no problem people criticizing traffic policing etc and how resources are allocated, just looked to me like you were taking a dig where it wasn't warranted.

[Indoo]

Maybe you need to take the point up with the Commissioner, through the Police Association


http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3723646a11,00.html

"Police human resources manager Wayne Annan described the Police Association's claims as "a load of rubbish". "

At least I hope you got a cordial reply to your requests.

What area were you in btw?

[Grahameeboy]

That is the funniest thing I heard in ages.

Call your local MP. Fucking brilliant. :laugh:

So little faith....I went direct to Minister and won.....yarboosucks to you......:blah:

[Finn]

So little faith....I went direct to Minister and won.....yarboosucks to you......:blah:

The Civil Unions bill was going to get through anyway.

[Grahameeboy]

The Civil Unions bill was going to get through anyway.

Nothing to do with that Mr Finn.......but nice when you bite

[scumdog]

Not much point hitting up the MPs if the Police bigwigs reckon there's enough.
I can assure you that there will be NO trouble getting community support for more General Duties police.

I notice you used the word 'reckon' instead of 'think' in the above sentence, very perceptive of you.

The second sentence I was glad to see too.

Face it, I'm in an unpopular job, I do it the best I can and if I upset a few doing it?? - Bad effing luck loser!!

Say what you want, I only reply to bait up the slack-jawed mouth breathing lack witted improvident oxygen-thieves that inhabit this site - oh, and the trolls too!
The rest I respect and don't dis.

Oh yeah, and the Fighting Cock tastes mighty good after a shit week at work!!:drinkup: :2thumbsup

[Skyryder]

The current model has the police getting some $$$ from Govt, some from LTNZ, some from ACC, some from Local Authorities etc etc. Each outside agency that gives funding to the police expects to get their moneys worth, if the police don't deliver they don't get the funding the following year. Why do you think police bosses set targets for traffic enforcement? They have to supply returns to the agencies that fund them.

It is a fundamental problem in applying business principals to the day to day operation of a govt agency that is in effect a pseudo military organisation. In other words..... its a cluster fuck.

This is as Spud says is the current funding model. I posted reference to this somwhere,(might have been this thread) a few days back. I came across the link for this model and how it all worked a few months back, at about the time the Transport Ammendments came into force. It's also an example of how the Minister of Transport have isolated himself from any kind of responsibilies.
As long as both agencies operate within the relevent acts, policy regarding financial targets, outcomes etc are very much left to the agencies managers to achieve as they see fit. The public as a general rule has little idea that Government ministries are set up as buisness models. The health sector is the most widely known but this ideology applies across the board and the so called enhanced traffic enforcment is a direct result of policies from with in the Transport Ministry to acheive the targets set in Ministry's
Road Safety Stratergy 2010

In September 2002 the Minister of Transport, Hon. Paul Swain, announced the government’s new road safety goals of achieving no more than 300 fatalities and 4,500 hospitalisations per annum by 2010.
Government want their money back that they are spending to achieve a political goal. It's a self funding exercise that the public are paying so that the politicans can crow about come election time to convince us that they are doing something usefull in bringing down the road toll. It's nothing but a fucking crock.............and the sad thing is that the public in general are buying this. After all who is seriosly going to question this when it is about saving lives.

Skyryder


Skyryder

[scumdog]

So let's all keep our speed down, stop at Stop signs, keep left, don't cross yellow lines, make sure our tyres have enough tread etc etc and it will screw the Govt AND give cops more time for dealing with real crime....:wait:

[Skyryder]

So let's all keep our speed down, stop at Stop signs, keep left, don't cross yellow lines, make sure our tyres have enough tread etc etc and it will screw the Govt AND give cops more time for dealing with real crime....:wait:


The problem with that SD is there is an assumption that we can all be "perfect road users" all of the time. No matter how good a driver/rider we are human and as such perfection is unobtainable no matter how much effort and concentration is applied. Quota's, fianancial targets, etc fail to take that into account................and also make a mockery of police discreationary powers.

I think it is fair to say that most of us who have had a speeding ticket or some other infringment acknowledge their guilt..............as a fair cop if they are knowlingly in the wrong. It's the marginal calls or the so called attitude of the driver/rider when they rebutt the cops interpeatation of the offence that gets me riled.

Skyryder

[spudchucka]

I'm not allowed to join. I asked once and they said "I don't think so Finn"
Shit, theres a surprise!

[spudchucka]

Yeah, ranks up there with people who fire personal insults behind the anonymity of the internet.
Like thats something new on kiwibiker???

[Finn]

Shit, theres a surprise!

It was because of my military history Budfugger.

[Grahameeboy]

It was because of my military history Budfugger.

Yeah I have played paintball too..............guess it makes a change from getting egg on ya face....now I know why you wear those goggles.....:wait:

[Finn]

Yeah I have played paintball too

Don't recall using paintball rifles in Hereford.

[Grahameeboy]

Don't recall using paintball rifles in Hereford.

That explains a lot..........:blip:

[Grahameeboy]

Of course there is a quota - its called SAP hours, you have to get positive hours (i.e. a ticket) to get an qualified SAP hour, and there are directives of how many SAP hours each constable, even those not on traffic, has to get.

Doesnt change the fact that speed kills.

SAP hours are needed to make sure that cops are actually issuing tickets. Why? because people hate paying tickets and hate getting demerit points. For most people this means they will slow down to avoid them. For you brain surgeons out there this means that people are less likely to die on our roads. Speed,not alcohol, is the biggest factor in fatal road crashes.

Remember, Police only issue tickets to people who have broken the law.

Can't argue with that..................the only thing I always find odd though is that we pay Taxes ie GST when we buy vehicles that can break the speed limit........in essence the Govt are allowing illegal items to be imported....I guess you could argue that the user bewares but smuggled drugs are stopped before they get to the user.....

Just my odd twist on things

[Indoo]

Speed,not alcohol, is the biggest factor in fatal road crashes..

Driver error would actually be the biggest factor, speed just influences the drivers ability to recover from that error and the force of the collision.

Speeds just the easiest factor in fatals to Police and minimise. Either we take all the incompetent idiots who are unsafe off the road, or we dumb it down for everyone and just try to reduce the damage when said idiots make a mistake.

The former would mean completely overhauling our driver licensing system, introducing real and effective penaltys for dangerous drivers, improving our roads, introducing stiff new vehicle standards and increasing the unmarked fleet so that Police have an effective means of catching acts of idiocy.

[Jantar]

...Speed is by far the biggest killer as it is the one linking attribute in most fatal and serious crashes.
You don't really believe that do you? If so, at what speed do we die?

Speed in itself does not kill, its the sudden change of speed caused by an impact that kills. Naturally, the faster we go, the higher isthat change of speed, but what isn't being looked at closely enough is "What caused the impact in the first place?" That is unlikely to be speed.

The cause of the impact may be: lack of skills; inattention; driver/rider error; mechanical failure; etc. Of course these are all hard to police, so lets just set a tax limit of 100 kmh irrespective of whether you are driving a 1964 Morris Oxford with cross ply tyres on a 2 year old licence, or riding the latest FJR and are among the countries most experienced motorcylists.

[Swoop]

This morning's Harold...


Speed at cost of burglary?

Sunday July 9, 2006
By Patrick Crewdson and David Fisher


Police are having to ignore petty crime in the Prime Minister's own electorate but still manage to have one in five officers on traffic duty.

The new statistics on road policing, obtained by the Herald on Sunday, come as evidence has emerged of the police's inability to tackle petty crime.

A letter from a Balmoral police sergeant told a Mt Albert liquor shop owner that he was unlikely to get any help with shoplifting complaints because officers were working on "major inquiries".

It comes as new traffic figures show that the highest number of tickets given out in New Zealand were in Central District - the district behind the "quota" memo which saw police in a storm over ticket quotas last week.

Central officers handed out about 18,000 tickets up to May this year - almost double what most police districts handed out. Other figures from the Office of the Commissioner show that in Auckland's three police districts, 20 per cent of frontline cops were assigned to road policing as their first priority. Nationwide, the figure is 18 per cent. The figures, released to the Herald on Sunday, only account for the primary duties of sworn officers. Of the 2169 sworn police officers in Auckland City, Counties-Manukau, and North Shore/Waitakere, 589 are assigned to general duties, 587 to investigations, 290 to road policing, 646 to operations support and 58 to management.

Prime Minister Helen Clark said Labour had taken steps to bolster community policing because of the importance of nipping petty crime in the bud.

"I'm all in favour of trying to get an emphasis on what looks like the lower end of crime but is actually a stepping stone to serious crime if it's not apprehended and dealt with effectively."

Of the 1000 extra cops announced as part of Labour's election deal with NZ First, 250 are supposed to go into frontline community policing. The extra officers are to be introduced over three years, with 406 funded in the first batch. Police Minister Annette King and Commissioner Howard Broad both say that meeting the targets will be "a challenge".

Helen Clark also defended the police focus on traffic enforcement, saying the strategy had reduced road deaths and cut the average speed. "The public will rightly be incensed if they think it's being done for revenue collection, but the revenue must be down, because the tickets are down, because they've got the speed down."

Police Commissioner Howard Broad defended the police attitude to petty crime yesterday, although he acknowledged that police were under pressure in Auckland.

A spokesman for Mr Broad said police bosses had to deal with increasing levels of violent crime. On "petty crime" the spokesman said police treated burglary as important because of its impact on individuals.

He rejected a link between a strong commitment to road policing and being unable to deal with all petty crime. Also, he said, the approach was driving the road toll down.

National Party law and order spokesman Simon Power said violent crime took top priority.

But "people get annoyed when they see resources being diverted to heavy traffic flow areas rather than to burglaries or the like".

"The public have an expectation that when they report a crime they're going to get some action."

It's a problem the government says it's working to fix.

[spudchucka]

It was because of my military history Budfugger.
Deserter?
Dishonourable discharge?
Couldn't shoot yourself in the foot?
Or were you trying to go straight from boy scouts to the thin blue line?

[spudchucka]

Speed in itself does not kill, its the sudden change of speed caused by an impact that kills.
This is true but its also a pointless arguement.

You can't achieve one without first endulging in the other. Its like trying to say that one plus zero equals two.

[Ixion]

A few years ago William Bell killed three people in cold blood in Mt Wellington.

A few days before a member of the public had reported Bell to the police, alleging various crimes, and giving them Bell's address. The police made no effort to pick him up, later citing "staff shortages".

Yet, on the very day he committed the murders, about the time he must actually have been doing them, I passed three police units on traffic duty within 5 minutes drive of the murder scene.

If the police had diverted one of those traffic units to apprehending Bell before he embarked on murder, three people would still be alive.

Old ladies don't lie sleepless at night out of fear that someone may be doing 61kph. They lie awake because they fear the William Bells. Yet the police assign a greater priority to the 61kph than to the William Bells. Something's wrong there.

[spudchucka]

This is getting pathetic.

If there had been more TRAFFIC cops on the roads, one of them might have been able to catch Mark Edward LUNDY speeding between Wellington & Palmerston North the night he brutally murdered his wife and daughter in their own home and thereby prevent their horrible deaths.

Lifes full of "what if's" and "should have's". It doesn't make a f$@ken bit of difference to what happened.

If you want to villify any one in the William BELL case, take a look at the probation service role in the events.

While you're at it take a look at the roll played by southlands mental health services in the murder of the police officers wife in Queenstown a few years ago.

When you pricks are perfect you can throw as many stones as you like. Till then....... Get F&$ked!!!

[The_Dover]

You better run along Spud, it's nearly 12.00 and there will be some old ladies speeding on their way home from church.

God forbid the sunday dinner is late. 61km/h all the way Mabel, just watch out for the pigs.

[Jantar]

Speed in itself does not kill, its the sudden change of speed caused by an impact that kills.
This is true but its also a pointless arguement.

You can't achieve one without first endulging in the other. Its like trying to say that one plus zero equals two.
True, but the first condition (speed) in most cases doesn't result in the second condition (impact). So its still one plus zero equals one, not two.

To take the speed argument to its illogical conclusion, all accidents would be caused by speed. I have never heard of any accidents where speed wasn't a factor. ie the vehicle (or all vehicles in a multi crash) were stopped at the time of the impact.

[scumdog]

Maybe we should refer to it as 'unsuitable speed'? Which for some would be about 11kmh.

[spudchucka]

You better run along Spud, it's nearly 12.00 and there will be some old ladies speeding on their way home from church.

God forbid the sunday dinner is late. 61km/h all the way Mabel, just watch out for the pigs.
I'd only ever write a ticket for 61kph to arseholes like you finn, your grannys are quite safe.

[scumdog]

A few years ago William Bell killed three people in cold blood in Mt Wellington.

A few days before a member of the public had reported Bell to the police, alleging various crimes, and giving them Bell's address. The police made no effort to pick him up, later citing "staff shortages".

Yet, on the very day he committed the murders, about the time he must actually have been doing them, I passed three police units on traffic duty within 5 minutes drive of the murder scene.


So everybody would be happy if the Police were one sector and Traffic another, different cars/uniforms etc, - like in the old MOT days?

That way there would be none of the above complaints about seeing 3 traffic units working when no staff were available for other crimes.

After all, the MOT rarely were actively after 'criminals'.

[spudchucka]

True, but the first condition (speed) in most cases doesn't result in the second condition (impact). So its still one plus zero equals one, not two.

To take the speed argument to its illogical conclusion, all accidents would be caused by speed. I have never heard of any accidents where speed wasn't a factor. ie the vehicle (or all vehicles in a multi crash) were stopped at the time of the impact.
Like I said before, its a pointless arguement. Even walking speed can kill you if you hit the right, (wrong) object.

[Divot]

well maybe they should actually put some thought behind where the lines are, best example is on SH2 yellow the whole fuckin way


and yesterday went past one set of yellow lines that was yellow along a nice good vis straight and ended just before a blind cresting corner , yellow lines should only be treated as rough suggestions now that they paint them everywhere

It is cheeper that providing beter roads!!!!!

[Divot]

All you experts should join up, it would make a huge difference having a bunch of such enlightened experts in the force. In fact, you're all so on to it you'll probably be exempt from having to do the recruit course and just go straight to the coal face; "Here you go son, take this ticket book and go catch us some burglars"!

No they are just drips under pressure

[Divot]

Spare us the under-staffed rubbish indoo, they can find them when they want to.

Yep, Used imports from good old mother land

[WINJA]

Coming from a frontline officer who does not do traffic: compare the amount of homicides in the country to the road toll. Then compare how much the road toll has come down as a result of tough policing.

HOW MUCH HAS THE ROAD TOLL BEEN REDUCED BY SAFER VEHICLES ,AIR BAGS AND CRUMPLE ZONES DONT TRY AND TAKE THE CREDIT FOR SOMETHING YOU PIGS HAVE DONE LITTLE TO HELP, WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THE ROAD TOLL WE WANT YOU CUNTS TO SOLVE CRIME LIKE BURGLERIES AND THATSTHE BOTTOM FUCKEN LINE WE THE PUBLIC ARE NOT GETTING WHAT WE WANT

[Patrick]

said it before, will say it again....

not many people die in burglaries and when they do, its headline news.

400 people die every year on the roads and it is lucky to get a mention.

go figure.....

but traffic enforcement is unimportant.... watch how bad it gets if there was none...

mad max and his battle truck will be on next week. might buy me one...

[Scouse]

Don't recall using paintball rifles in Hereford.Did you see that Ronin movie too

[Finn]

Deserter?
Dishonourable discharge?
Or were you trying to go straight from boy scouts to the thin blue line?

Yes, I deserted the Boys Scouts after the Leader gave me a "dishonourable discharge". I'm a firm believer of taking shortcuts to get to the top, but it was the sore ass after summer camp that was the last straw.

[eliot-ness]

Old ladies don't lie sleepless at night out of fear that someone may be doing 61kph. They lie awake because they fear the William Bells. Yet the police assign a greater priority to the 61kph than to the William Bells. Something's wrong there.

When it was made compulsory to carry driving licenses a blitz was made on Rodney roads in the first few days. The net result was, if I remember correctly, 28 drivers caught and fined. The local chief described it as a success. "Drivers must learn that it is an offence" he said in a local paper report.
In the same paper, two pages on, was an article about a nearby vilage where senior citizens were being terrorised by hoons, ripping out fences, smashing mail boxes, driving across gardens etc. That same local poice chief said, "We haven't got the staff to follow up all compaints."
I wonder how many compaints he got to justify the crackdown on drivers not carrying licenses.
At about the same time, Snell's Beach residents,fed up with the increase in petty crime, paid for the building of a police station in the village. Local businesses paid for a patrol car. The station was rarely manned by the police. Now it is only manned part time by volunteers and these are in short supply. However, on the positive side, we now have a regular collection of revenue by a poice officer with his own private lunchroom, provided by the people he's targeting. That should make us all sleep easier.

Addendum.My wife has just informed me that one of her cars is missing a set of hub caps. Must have been stolen last night. Anybody think it's worth reporting?.... Thought not

[terbang]

Like I said before, its a pointless arguement. Even walking speed can kill you if you hit the right, (wrong) object.
You're on to it spud, the trick is is not to hit anything and the best way to do that is with a combination of skill and self control that can be taught. Its not the speed that kills its the attitude resulting in inapropriate speed for the circumstance among other things that do it. We have known about this in the aviation world from its inception, hit anything and you're history and we train & examine accordingly in a broad spectrum, including attitudes. Targeting speed only, though a good scource of income, is only doing a fraction, and you know it too, of what is required to make our roads safer. Education and examination standards are way too low in this country. You, I and most subscribers to this site know that, if even a small fraction of our fine money, currently pouring into the coffers, was used to upgrade driver training and examination standards, we would see a marked change in our road toll.
Sadly though, speed fines make money and proper training and checking costs..

[WINJA]

This is getting pathetic.

If there had been more TRAFFIC cops on the roads, one of them might have been able to catch Mark Edward LUNDY speeding between Wellington & Palmerston North the night he brutally murdered his wife and daughter in their own home and thereby prevent their horrible deaths.

Lifes full of "what if's" and "should have's". It doesn't make a f$@ken bit of difference to what happened.

If you want to villify any one in the William BELL case, take a look at the probation service role in the events.

While you're at it take a look at the roll played by southlands mental health services in the murder of the police officers wife in Queenstown a few years ago.

When you pricks are perfect you can throw as many stones as you like. Till then....... Get F&$ked!!!
LUNDY COULD BE SPLATERED IN BLOOD AND HAVE TO DEAD BODIES IN THE BACK SEAT AND YOU MORONS WOULD STILL HAVE ONLY GIVEN HIM A SPEEDING TICKET , HOW WOULD ISSUEING LUNDY A TICKET HAVE STOPPED THE MURDERS YOUR A TARD SPUD, WHAT COULD HAVE STOPPED THOSE MURDERS IS A REAL FEAR OF ACTUALLY GETTING CAUGHT THIS IS DONE BY THE POLICE SHOWING CRIMS THAT NO MATTER WHAT SIZE THE CRIME YOU WILL BE CAUGHT YOU WILL BE PUNISHED

[Ixion]

So everybody would be happy if the Police were one sector and Traffic another, different cars/uniforms etc, - like in the old MOT days?

That way there would be none of the above complaints about seeing 3 traffic units working when no staff were available for other crimes.

After all, the MOT rarely were actively after 'criminals'.

Ironically, yes. what gets up the public nose is the sort of thing referred to by Mr Eliot Ness, above . When the public seek the protection of the police, because they are frightened or affected bycriminal behaviour. And they get told"Go away, we can't do anything , too busy". Then , on the way home, they see coppers, in that same uniform, dishing out tickets for technical speeding offences. And reflect on the message "My home being burgled, my wife terrorised, my possessions stolen, is a lower priority to the police than that chap doing 61kph. Well IT AIN'T TO ME" .

It's not about speeding it's about priorities. And the public perception of priority is very different to that of the police.

We have , in this very thread, police officers telling us that burglary isn't important, doesn't matter. Yet if you were to question almost any member of the public - "There's a person burgling that house - THERE. And , over THERE, a man driving at 61kph. And one policeman. Who should the policeman deal with - the burglar or the speeder". The public's answer, I'll guarantee, would be "the burglar". Yet the police answer is "the speeder" .

If the police are determined to ignore most property offences and minor assaults etc, in favour of speeding (I mean the 'word from on high', not individual coppers) , then , yes, it would be better if they were in a different force. At least then if you did get hold of a copper something might be done. At present the public see ever increasing funds disappearing into the police department, and no improvement in law and order.

[Edbear]

Sheesh Jimbo, what does THAT lot mean in plain english??

BTW Guys, thought I'd try this ticketing of 'innocent' speeding motorists tonight, first guy was doing 74 in a 50 area, smelled if booze, long story short he blew 1148, 5th time drink driving.

Wouldn't you rather HE was off the road??

Decided to call it quits after that and just stop druggies and burglars, I've got this special radar see.......

Never got ONE.

Back to the old speed radar tomorrow, it DOES detect speed unlike the special one which didn't detect a single druggie or burglar...


(Actually I lied, there is no special radar, I need WINJA to invent one so it is easier to catch druggies and burglars and can then leave innocent speeding motorists alone)


Hey Spank! How come we have rep restrictions?

[MikeL]

It's not about speeding it's about priorities. And the public perception of priority is very different to that of the police.


So far this year I've been burgled twice. The chances of seeing any of my stolen property again are virtually nil. The only reason to report the crimes is for the insurance. The effective abandonment of the fight against property crimes is rationalised by minimising the victim impact and reducing the problem to essentially an economic matter rather than a social and moral one. How long before minor assaults and other crimes against people are similarly rationalised?

[Jantar]

You're on to it spud, the trick is is not to hit anything and the best way to do that is with a combination of skill and self control that can be taught. Its not the speed that kills its the attitude resulting in inapropriate speed for the circumstance among other things that do it. We have known about this in the aviation world from its inception, hit anything and you're history and we train & examine accordingly in a broad spectrum, including attitudes. ..

I bet that not many people on here realise that there is a speed limit in avation too. Terbang, how many times have you exceeded 250 kts below 10000'. How many times have you received a speeding ticket for doing it? Yet I bet you were on radar every time. :yes:

[trumpy]

I wish the poiliticians, LTSA, safety experts, enforcers and Greenies would display some honesty and a little less ignorance when it comes to the subject of speed. If you want to stop vehicle deaths then simply speed limit all motorised vehicles to 20kph. Problem solved.
In reality, all speed limits are an arbitrary figure which accepts (a) a certain amount of "colateral damage" (b) is easy for the general public to remember (who would remember 51.73kmh) and (c) can be easily written on a conveniently sized road sign.
Whatever the "experts" may tell you about the "research" that has been done to prove such and such and hence justify a particular law or the agressive enforcement of that law, is bollocks. You will never be able to set up an appropriate experimental model, indeed it would be unethical to do so, so how can you take seriously "research" where you can at very best only control one variable? Current research is really only based on gathered statistics which may or may not be "clean" and have a nasty habit of being analysed with a certain degree of predetermination.

[QUOTE=terbang]...Its not the speed that kills its the attitude resulting in inapropriate speed for the circumstance among other things that do it..../QUOTE]

You are dead right Terbang, it is not the speed per se that is the issue but the decisions you make about that speed. The politicians etc have completly missed this point (and it is probably politically expedient for them to do so).
Three and a half years ago I purchased my current work vehicle. As of today the mileage reading is 308,287kms, 95% of that on the open road. I get to see a lot of good driving decisions and I get to see a lot of bad ones. I have been first to the scene of two fatals and several lesser crashes in that time and in every case, plus every near miss I have seen as well, it has been the result of poor decision making by one or more drivers. People died because of the intensity of the impact, poor vehicle design etc but the CAUSE of the accident was the decision relating to that speed.
It is the skill level and the driving culture of NZ drivers that needs far more attention than the speed per se.
For those who still insist on statistics to prove a point, then consider this; why is it when the state of Montana (I think) removed its speed limit and focussed on dangerous driving habits instead, their road toll went down? They have had to (due to a law suit, surprise, surprise) re-institute an open road limit and guess what? Fatality numbers went up. The likely explanation is that when there is a speed limit in place drivers try to drive to that limit, even though it is beyond THEIR speed limit. Take away the abritary one and people tend to drive to their own limits.
..sorry, rant over

[trumpy]

[QUOTE=Dynamytus50 Air bags and crumple zones are not going to make a huge amount of difference in a head on crash at over 100k or when you loose it on a corner into a bank at 120k.QUOTE]

Having been the rehabilitation industry for twenty five odd years now (and yes, some of them have been odd), I have made friends with a number of prominent and less so Orthopaedic surgeons both here and overseas, and without exception all have now greatly increased workloads in the area of car accident injuries. This first manifested itself in a dramatic increase in serious leg injuries where the cars in question had dash and steering wheel air bags. It is not the air bags themselves that are the problem, rather it is clear to them that in the past, many of these victims would have been taken away in a body bag and the injuries would not have been presented (and hence recorded) as a medical issue.
Drivers fortunate enough to own the right BMW or Mercedes model with underdash, pillar and overhead bags are not only surviving some quite horrific accidents but presenting with fewer major injuries as well.

[WINJA]

dont try and convince dynaarse of the above , according to him pigs are the be all and end all of road safety.

[number33]

The cops here seem to be pretty much spoilt wimps hiding behind their uniforms. Spud's obviously on the edge of mental breakdown, S.D's long gone loopy and away with the fairies, and the rest'll probably end up in psychiatric care too.

[scumdog]

Groundhog Day!! (again)

Same old blah-blah-blah, - public whinge & cops 'defend' their position.

Keep it going if it makes you happy but I can't see things changing in the near future guys.

[Da Bird]

The cops here seem to be pretty much spoilt wimps hiding behind their uniforms. Spud's obviously on the edge of mental breakdown, S.D's long gone loopy and away with the fairies, and the rest'll probably end up in psychiatric care too.

And soon we'll have tasers to hide behind as well... :motu:

[spudchucka]

We have , in this very thread, police officers telling us that burglary isn't important, doesn't matter. .
Rubbish! You have police officers telling you the truth about the way things are done and the wankers on this site are just turning the thread into a typical BS pig bashing.

[spudchucka]

, and the rest'll probably end up in psychiatric care too.
Keep a seat warm for us please, ya F'n retard!

[Finn]

Stop with all this civilian bashing. We're people too you know.

[scumdog]

Stop with all this civilian bashing. We're people too you know.

Hah! Prove it!:nya:

[Lou Girardin]

..............guess it makes a change from getting egg on ya face...

Egg? (Tui)

[Lou Girardin]

Doesnt change the fact that speed kills.

. Speed,not alcohol, is the biggest factor in fatal road crashes.
.

Well you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Try studying some research from other than Victoria. Even Queensland found that exceeding the speed limit accounts for less than 7% of fatals.

[Lou Girardin]

Can't argue with that................

Of course you can't. It requires thought.

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah but look at the UK. Road polcing is taken so much more seriously over there, the people who moan about it over here have no idea. There is almost no tolerance over the speed limit apart from the motorway's and they have an extremely effective traffic enforcement. From average speed cameras, demerit points from cameras, huge patrol car fleet, underground speed detection systems etc etc but they still have cars that are imported and made there that are well able to go faster than the speed limit.
.

Rubbish. The main complaint in the UK is that there are not enough real cops doing traffic. It's all done with cameras.
Generally, on their motorways you don't get pinged for under 150 - 160 k's unless your speeding is aggravated by other factors.

[Lou Girardin]

[QUOTE=scumdog]
After all, the MOT rarely were actively after 'criminals'.[/QUOTE

But we did catch some. Even without powers of arrest.

[Swoop]

Ponder this.

The semi-decapitated, handless, beaten body that has been found in the sea close to Wellington... What would happen if it is found out that a driver/motorist has really gone postal on a cop who is out tax collecting?

A possibility, is it not?

[Swoop]

Well i can tell you from someone who was there for a month in may that you are completly wrong.

There is a huge traffic police presence over there, every town i went through had speed cameras which have demerit points, the multi legs and motorways have speed cameras every few hundred metres and you now get average speed cameras where a numberplate recognition system remembers your numberplate when you get on a motorway or multi leg and records you when you get off. It then works out your average speed and will give you a ticket with demerit points if your over the limit. People are so careful about speeding over there, the constables i spoke to over there laughed when i told them of the New Zealand Traffic Policing.

The tolerance is 3% on speed cameras to account for speedoo's being incorrect on individual cars but other than that you will get a ticket and the demerit points are extremely harsh.

The traffic officers drive BMW's and Volvo's which would make our holdens look like they were going backwards. They are everywhere as well, all the time. I was going through Diss at 3am and i saw one sitting next to a bush a laser gun, thats on a quiet country road.

You dont know what your talking about, i dont know where your getting your facts from but they are either outdated or incorrect.

So all of that system is designed to:
a: target speed,
b: generate tax $$$.

It does nothing to target the poor/inattentive/dangerous/drunk driver.

[Squeak the Rat]

Groundhog Day!! (again)

Same old blah-blah-blah, - public whinge & cops 'defend' their position.

Couldn't agree more!

Why is it that the damn public keep whinging about this........?

[Lou Girardin]

D50, you just confirmed it for yourself. Cameras everywhere. They do have blitzs on bikes in some areas, but traffic policing is nearly all cameras. One month in the UK, wouldn't count as an exhaustive study.
Where do you think the LTSA gets their research from?
That they do it themselves?
It's ALL Monash University research.

[Ixion]

Rubbish! You have police officers telling you the truth about the way things are done and the wankers on this site are just turning the thread into a typical BS pig bashing.

The problem (and it is a problem , whether the police are willing to admit it or not) is wider than just "wankers on this site " "pig bashing"

In real life I am , for my sins, president of our local Residents Association. The members of such associations are far from "wanker bikers". Yet policing is one of the issues that we receive the most input from our members about. They are not happy. Being mostly polite householder type people they are unhappy in a low key don't-rock-the-boat fashion . But they are unhappy. And, IMHO , with good reason.

We (the Residents Assn) have been trying for 5 years to get more general duties police out on the streets. Because our members repeately tell us that they do not feel safe (and are not safe). We have approached (by mail and in person) , the Minister, MPs the Police Commissioner, various Area Commanders, Broad when he was the chief turkey for Auckland, and I've lost track of who else.

We are told, without exception, that either "there are plenty of police" or "we haven't enough staff"

If the former, why are our residents being knocked down in broad daylight and their purses stolen? Their homes burgled? their children assaulted? If the latter why do we see no shortage of police on traffic duty. That last is not my comment (I am but a wanking biker). It is a comment that I receive REPEATEDLY from the general public.

An old lady was knocked down and her handbag stolen, in broad daylight. The thief ran off . A member of the public went to her aid . He related this to me. He called 111. "Old lady, bag stolen, thief running off down XX street". Police: "Is the (thief) still present"."No, I just told you, he's just run off" Police:" Then we can't do anything. She must go to the police station and make a complaint". "But , but" Police:" We can't do anything , there's no-one available. Goodbye". Samaritan takes old lady home. On way, a few hundred yards away they pass two cars full of police, on traffic duty. Old lady: "Surely one of them could have come and helped me?" Is the old lady also a "wanker", "pig bashing" ? (She did not go to the police station. She is 80 years old, no transport, the police station is miles away , and as she said" I don't suppose they'll get my purse back for me")

I have lost count of the number of complaints that I have had about people being burgled, kids mugged etc, and the police refusing to do anything. Then the victim seeing large numebrs of police (not just a single officer) on traffic duties ,

Are the public in general just "wankers", "pig bashing" ?

The grim reality is , that throughout much of the country, the Rule of Law has collapsed, and the police are failing entirely in their duty to maintain the law. The only law that is being maintained is traffic law.

And even traffic law is not maintained.Except for speeding.

Another perenniel complaint which I receive is about pedestrian crossings.

There are two in particular. Admittedly , they are not well sited, but that does not excuse drivers blasting over them and failing to give way to the pedestrians wanting to cross. And admitted, the drivers are probably not exceeding the speed limit. But even 50kph seems very frightening if you are old, or pregnant, and a car doing 50 clips past you with only a few inches to spare.. Many members report having to literally jump to safety.

We (I) have taken this up numerous times with the police. The answer is , as always, "we haven't enough staff to do anything". Yet there are always enough staff for speeding tickets. I see them being dished out on the same day that I am told "we haven't enough staff".

There ARE enough staff. It is the police priorities that are wrong, and the police obstinately refuse to acknowlege the genuine and legitimate public concern about this.

[Lou Girardin]

I would say the LTSA gets a lot of it from us, they get a copy of a traffic crash report from both us and SCU.

I'm talking about real research D50. Like the UK's TRL study in the causes of accidents, which found that exceeding the limit was responsible for 7%. A recent study in Queensland found the same. But reports like this aren't popular with Govt's because they don't support revenue gathering.
It's what most Western countries do to find out what works in accident reduction.

[Lou Girardin]

Ixion is dead right. When you have newspaper columnists, who wouldn't normally comment on Policing, having a go over quotas etc, the cops have a serious problem. But they just won't see it.
How bad do public/Police relations have to get before the thickheads in charge wake up?

[Dangerous Dane]

I've had a fair wack of experience with the police now and I've seen their corruption and manipulation first hand. Just over little things but I have to say I have ZERO faith in the police force barr the few small town cops who have to get along with their communitys.

[Squeak the Rat]

More members of the public need to make more noise about it though. Its all very well for people to bash frontline cops on an online forum or even in the street, but we dont control what we are assigned to or how many cops we get.


Every time we argue this - online or offline - we get told in effect that we don't know what is best for us, or that we are police bashing.

The issue has been prominent in the media. Again, it is labelled cop bashing, or we are told that we are wrong.

Unfortunately there are some people who do direct this at the individuals on the front line who as a whole do a good job. But, the comments on this site are representative of New Zealanders. And just like in our society we have some who can argue articulately and logically like Ixion, down to people like me who get side tracked and rant about allsorts while meaning to address the core issue, and through to people who have to resort to insults or let it affect their opinion of individuals.

I grew up in South Auckland. I have friends who are cops. I have full respect for frontline officers. I completely disagree with a lot of Police policy. Unfortunately some people don't distinguish between policy and the individual, and a lot of officers don't distinguish between arguments about policy and cop-bashing....

[Finn]

Ixion is dead right?

And still the bastard manages to post!

[terbang]

I completely disagree with a lot of Police policy. Unfortunately some people don't distinguish between policy and the individual, and a lot of officers don't distinguish between arguments about policy and cop-bashing....

You got it. I think there must be a fair bit of indoctrination blindness with a lot of cops because they will never listen to any sort of balanced debate and are incapable of admitting or accepting any imperfections within their own organisation.

[Lou Girardin]

And still the bastard manages to post!

Only for lack of a comma.

[Finn]

Only for lack of a coma.

Look, is he alive or not?

[Pixie]

The problem (and it is a problem , whether the police are willing to admit it or not) is wider than just "wankers on this site " "pig bashing".....


All the civilians mentioned in this post are obviously wrong.
They don't know what it's like to be a policeman.

I bet if IBM or The Warehouse started to see general discussion of dissatisfaction with their organization and compaints of poor performance,they would rectify the reasons damn quick.

If the cops do "performance evaluations" of their traffic enforcement duties,Why don't they also do them for the satisfaction ratings the public give them (based on a true unbiased survey).
Perhaps only the former matters as it affects the police's LTNZ and ACC funding

[Pixie]

Y
I really would love for the public to see what it is like being a frontline GDB cop, some of you would probably be ashamed of things you had said but i imagine most of you would just be totally shocked.

We have a lot of law students come for a ride along with us from Auckland University before they graduate. Its pretty amazing the attitudes they have when they come in and how different they are when they leave.
I don't doubt that this is true,in the case of GDB policing.
However,if you took the public on ride-alongs with the HP,the cops would be embarrased,if they have any shame.

[Indoo]

You got it. I think there must be a fair bit of indoctrination blindness with a lot of cops because they will never listen to any sort of balanced debate and are incapable of admitting or accepting any imperfections within their own organisation.

I must have swallowed the red pill then.

[Pixie]

Spare us the under-staffed rubbish indoo, they can find them when they want to.
They seem to be able to find them to police the monkeys in east timor

[The_Dover]

And the Solomon Islands.

I wonder how many speeding tickets they give out over there?

[Patrick]

they see coppers dishing out tickets for technical speeding offences.

We have , in this very thread, police officers telling us that burglary isn't important, doesn't matter. Yet if you were to question almost any member of the public - "There's a person burgling that house - THERE. And , over THERE, a man driving at 61kph. And one policeman. Who should the policeman deal with - the burglar or the speeder". The public's answer, I'll guarantee, would be "the burglar". Yet the police answer is "the speeder" .

At present the public see ever increasing funds disappearing into the police department, and no improvement in law and order.

Wrong on so many fronts... "technical speeding offences? Nothing "technical" about exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 11 plus kmph.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see any cops saying, in this thread or any other, ever, that burglary is unimportant. That is the view expressed by WINJAS and the like minded of his/her ilk.

You "guarantee" the speeder is the preferred choice over a burglar for a cop? Even the snakes won't ignore a burglar over a speeder. Put money on it and I'll gladly take your money from you, or you can just bank it directly into my account thanks. ANZ account # 01 2345 0678910 00. Make it a good bet though so I can afford a decent O.E:drinkup: :drinkup:

$$$ disappearing into the Police fund? Ticket $$$ goes to the Govt, not Police.....

[spudchucka]

I dont need respect, I know i do a good job and i stop a lot of people being victimised and i lock up a lot of bad people who hurt good people. Its a simple truth that will do me.
These morons are barely worth responding to. You do a great job that they would struggle to even comprehend. Screw them and keep up your good work.

[Lou Girardin]

And the Solomon Islands.

I wonder how many speeding tickets they give out over there?

None, they shoot back.

[spudchucka]

Victoria? you know a bit but you dont know much do you.

We get our stats from the LTSA. Victoria does our promotional papers.

Or are you referring to Victoria as in Australia?
He's talking about Monash University in Victoria and the Vic police, who are a hell of a lot more regimented on traffic enforcement than we are. Its Lou's favourite thing to hate because our LTNZ are burried up the bum of Monash Uni.

[Finn]

And the Solomon Islands.

I wonder how many speeding tickets they give out over there?

Didn't you know that speeding is the leading cause of civil unrest in the Solomons?

[Dangerous Dane]

These morons are barely worth responding to. You do a great job that they would struggle to even comprehend. Screw them and keep up your good work.

If you guys are doing an honest good-cop job then I take my hat off to you.
On the other hand, If your akin one of the policemen who has assaulted, lied, baited, badmouthed and perverted justice against me then you should be able to see why the public has the negative perception of you that they do, and you probably wont be arguing your case here anyway.

Big ups to the good cops out there.

[spudchucka]

We (the Residents Assn) have been trying for 5 years to get more general duties police out on the streets. Because our members repeately tell us that they do not feel safe (and are not safe). We have approached (by mail and in person) , the Minister, MPs the Police Commissioner, various Area Commanders, Broad when he was the chief turkey for Auckland, and I've lost track of who else.
Good on you for trying to get more cops, don't give up on it.

General Duties is the foundation stone of police work, (in my opinion). However the police also have a responsibility to police the roads, with good reason, (as far as I'm concerned). I support you 110% in your wishes to have more general duties cops working in your area. But that doesn't diminish the responsibility the police have to also police the roads.

The police have to allocate resources to road policing, they don't have a choice and that is very unlikely to change. We need more police, full stop. More general duties, more CIB, more traffic, more youth aid, more community cops............. etc.

Until the way the police are funded changes or the Govt just decides to cough up more in the budget for policing we will never have the resources we need to keep the majority of the public happy all of the time. All they do now is rob Peter to pay Paul in terms of resource allocation.

There is a major recruitment and retention problem developing, they are unlikely to achieve the 1000 new cops in three years that they want. The situation is most likely to get worse before it gets any better.

[Squeak the Rat]

These morons are barely worth responding to. You do a great job that they would struggle to even comprehend. Screw them and keep up your good work.
The post that DM50 was responding to was one of the most sensible posts I have read recently.

Take your own advice. And have a close look in the mirror before dishing out your insults .....

[Patrick]

If you guys are doing an honest good-cop job then I take my hat off to you.
On the other hand, If your akin one of the policemen who has assaulted, lied, baited, badmouthed and perverted justice against me then you should be able to see why the public has the negative perception of you that they do, and you probably wont be arguing your case here anyway.

Big ups to the good cops out there.

Thats a big turnaround to what was said earlier....thanks by the way!

Why would the public have negative perceptions of Police over what happened to you???

[The_Dover]

Why would the public have negative perceptions of Police over what happened to you???

Probably due to the fact it was not an isolated incident?

I too have met with sleaze from pigs that should be trustworthy.

[spudchucka]

If you guys are doing an honest good-cop job then I take my hat off to you.
On the other hand, If your akin one of the policemen who has assaulted, lied, baited, badmouthed and perverted justice against me then you should be able to see why the public has the negative perception of you that they do, and you probably wont be arguing your case here anyway.

Big ups to the good cops out there.
And which category do you honestly think the cops that provide advice and honest opinion on this site to anyone that is interested would come under?

[The_Dover]

And which category do you honestly think the cops that provide advice and honest opinion on this site to anyone that is interested would come under?

A bunch of cunts?

[spudchucka]

The post that DM50 was responding to was one of the most sensible posts I have read recently.

Take your own advice. And have a close look in the mirror before dishing out your insults .....
Insults? Read some of the crap that gets dished out to me, that avatar stealing gumby and his mindless mates spout endless insults of a highly personal and vulgar nature and you come back and have a go at me because I referred to them as morons? What a load of bollocks!

[Squeak the Rat]

Insults? Read some of the crap that gets dished out to me, that avatar stealing gumby and his mindless mates spout endless insults of a highly personal and vulgar nature and you come back and have a go at me because I referred to them as morons? What a load of bollocks!
There is a simple answer to that, use your ignore list. If you call me a moron or a wanker again then that's where you're going....:niceone:

[spudchucka]

A bunch of cunts?
Welcome, meet winja and mikey.

[Patrick]

A bunch of cunts?

For giving good legal advice? Even when it's not asked for but so obviously needed? Even for getting off tickets? Yep, bunch of c*#ts alright....

[spudchucka]

There is a simple answer to that, use your ignore list. If you call me a moron or a wanker again then that's where you're going....:niceone:
wanker!:blip:

[scumdog]

A bunch of cunts?

Sheeit!
I thought that was you and Poos and winja and.....

[The_Dover]

C'mon ladies, don't take it to heart.

There are some good cops on this site and I can accept that you guys are only human, your profession really does not change my personal opinion of you and I've appreciated the advice given at times.

Some of you seem very passionate about your jobs and appear to take a lot of what is said on here very personally but surely you can accept that the opinions offered are not merely that of a bunch of pissed off speeding bikers but are representative of a vast cross section of society??

Sure, some of us are less than eloquent at times but a large proportion of us have been victims of "crimes" and received little assistance from an organisation whose primary role is to protect and serve the public due to lack of resource. Yet as pointed out, not only on here but in the national media too, there is a fuckload of resource dedicated to lowering a road toll that is not going to change with an overly aggressive ticketing policy.

[The_Dover]

Sheeit!
I thought that was you and Poos and winja and.....

Nope, cunts are useful three weeks out of four.

[Squeak the Rat]

This message is hidden because spudchucka is on your ignore list.

The thread looks better already.... :nya:

[scumdog]

Yep, there ARE probably some right twats in the job (Police) out there but judge each guy as an individual rather than what profession they have eh?

After all, if the majority were 'that bad' and the good ones left what would that leave you with??

And a lot of us could do what a lot of you are doing - but not vice-versa.

[The_Dover]

And a lot of us could do what a lot of you are doing - but not vice-versa.

I doubt it.

I don't think I'd have a problem nightsticking drunks and coconuts.

But writing all those tickets might fuck with my OOS.

[eliot-ness]

About a year ago I posted an hypothetical situation.
What is likely to happen if everyone obeys the current speed limits. Will the government accept the loss of revenue or will we see speed limits lowered. Evidence over the last six months, with the number of tickets issued dropping, would favour the latter. No government is prepared to kill off the golden goose. 80k limits are becoming more and more widespread as the revenue drops. Obey the law to the letter and we will soon be walking, with possibly an exorbitant tax on shoe leather.
The tone of this thread has deteriorated to a slanging match between the few cops on the forum and a large number of guys who see all the problems but vent their anger on the wrong people. Biker's, and motorists, anger should be directed where it really belongs. The politicians who make the laws. All the ranting and raving in the world isn't going to change a thing if the complainants are the only ones who hear it. To claim that the guys in the firing line could change things is a pipe dream. How many here can go to work, ignore the bosses orders, and do the job as they see fit. Not many I bet.

[Dangerous Dane]

I'm still new here and I dont want to offend anyone but the sad fact is that of all the police I have encountered, a very large percentage have been machoscistic (sp) egomaniacs who have been more concerned with asserting their authority than actual justice.

Yes, I have encountered some good police who have treated me with respect and as a human being, even some who have fined me have atleast been courteous, as I am to them. I forget these cops in arguements like this due to the shadow thats been cast over my opinion of the police as a whole by the others.

I'm sorry if I have offended you decent cops out there. But if I have offended you I would suggest you all take a look at the kind of police that have caused me the distrust that I have.

(quoted to me from an prominent officer)"The police complaints authority is a very understaffed and overworked facility"

Lets see some of fine revenue go there for a change...

[jimbo600]

Yep, there ARE probably some right twats in the job (Police) out there but judge each guy as an individual rather than what profession they have eh?

After all, if the majority were 'that bad' and the good ones left what would that leave you with??

And a lot of us could do what a lot of you are doing - but not vice-versa.

Every organisation has its wankers. What doesn't help your cause is that if you even fart in the wrong company the media are all over you.

[scumdog]

Every organisation has its wankers. What doesn't help your cause is that if you even fart in the wrong company the media are all over you.

Very very true - and it's constant this media bashing of Police.

Time the spread their net to a few other occupations - like pollies for a start.

[Grahameeboy]

I'm still new here and I dont want to offend anyone but the sad fact is that of all the police I have encountered, a very large percentage have been machoscistic (sp) egomaniacs who have been more concerned with asserting their authority than actual justice.

Yes, I have encountered some good police who have treated me with respect and as a human being, even some who have fined me have atleast been courteous, as I am to them. I forget these cops in arguements like this due to the shadow thats been cast over my opinion of the police as a whole by the others.

I'm sorry if I have offended you decent cops out there. But if I have offended you I would suggest you all take a look at the kind of police that have caused me the distrust that I have.

(quoted to me from an prominent officer)"The police complaints authority is a very understaffed and overworked facility"

Lets see some of fine revenue go there for a change...

Difficult to say because when you are stopped it could be argued that you turn into reaction mode and whatever the cop says will be misinterpreted......may sound like rubbish...but think about it..I mean when stopped by the cops we don't all go "yippee" do we so our tone may change and create a reaction in the cop etc.......

Authority..well I guess they are the Law.

Justice...well I guess that you have broken the Law and it is really the victims subjective view that reacts.

I mean if some bozzo calls you a wanker you have 2 options......get angry and nail him or just smile and walk away.....so what I am saying is that the cop may look at your reaction/attitude and react to

Just trying to put a different slant on things

[mikey]

Welcome, meet winja and mikey.

hey, even though it wasnt you who knocked me off my bike, your still a traffic cop.

traffic cops as lower than people who steal

the last cunt that ripped my house off got her fukn head kicked in. if i did that to you when you gave me a speeding fine i'd be chucked in a cell an the sargent might forget to lock it, an what do you know i'd be paralysed an fucked in the ass.

been ripped off a few times, but i dont go callign the police, they arent going to catch any thiefs, unless they catch them speeding, probably give them a ticket an send them on there way with a few grand worth of my stolen shit in the back

[terbang]

looks like you cops are getting a bit excited because a lot of people are not so enchanted with your positions. And there are a lot...
I don't like your organisation (the police) though I don't necessarily dislike individuals within it. And if yer ride a bike then you stand a good chance of being a good bloke in my view. Time to cool down for all..

[Dangerous Dane]

I understand what your saying but I've always been known to treat everyone with respect and courtesy until they prove their not worth it. I've only ever "gone to town" on cops who have gone out of their way to mess with me.

[terbang]

She didn’t see nor feel it happen, it just happened. The first indication of anything was a quivering voice. The voice of a stranger.

He had been to a Sunday gathering with his mates, he had enjoyed the beer and drag racing. At age 19 he was a veteran of those impromptu and unofficial gatherings where young men flaunted the road laws and drank heavily. He and his type were the boy racers and he enjoyed living life on the edge.
She had been visiting her sister and was eager to get home to her family. Her oldest daughter was cooking the evening meal and she didn’t want to be late. She was the wife of a businessman living a comfortable life on a country life-style block. She was 35 years old and was satisfied with her life. She knew the road well, knew she was a competent driver and allowed her speed to rise. With an urge to explain her late arrival, she looked down and reached for her mobile phone.
As he slowed for the compulsory stop sign, midway through Pink Floyds ‘Us and Them’, he reached to turn up the volume to take full impact of his favourite song.
He failed to stop at the intersection, he wasn’t speeding. Just pissed.
She didn’t see the intersection, she wasn’t drunk. Just speeding.
The front of her car impaled his drivers door at a speed in excess of 100 KPH, killing him instantly. The high speed meeting of steel, rubber, flesh and bone made such a loud bang that it startled a stranger, a farmer tending his cows on his evening milk.

She is trapped in her car, the stranger can see that her injuries are severe and in the fair way that farmers are with life, he knows she is going to die.
Her brain is confused and she cannot move though, with her eyes open, she can see lights and twisted metal. The strangers face is with her, a deeply furrowed brow urges her to remain still and to wait. She is aware of her own blood and there is some pain but it is easing. She is now slowly sinking back into herself and worries about her late dinner appointment. The pain is now gone, the lights have disappeared and there is no more twisted steel. There is the residual sensation of the stranger’s voice and the fading rush of life. She realises that she will not return home and the only thing remaining, as she gently crosses from life to death, is her new voice, the new voice of her soul.

[number33]

Keep a seat warm for us please, ya F'n retard!

We're coming to take you away he he ha ha he he we're coming to take you away ha ha he he ha ha

[spudchucka]

We're coming to take you away he he ha ha he he we're coming to take you away ha ha he he ha ha
You might as well join my club too.

[Finn]

410 posts. Glad we got that sorted.

[Grahameeboy]

I understand what your saying but I've always been known to treat everyone with respect and courtesy until they prove their not worth it. I've only ever "gone to town" on cops who have gone out of their way to mess with me.

I guess that is your call.........but what did it really achieve?

[Dangerous Dane]

Well in one case it got me off a charge(I should never have been arrested anyway, missunderstanding) due to the fact that the officer then made such a dick of himself that it could never have been taken seriously due to the possibility of repercussions.

And I've never been someone to let anyone try and maliciously get the better of me.

[Swoop]

And the Solomon Islands.

I wonder how many speeding tickets they give out over there?
Not many.
They are too busy trying to find the Dunkin' Donuts...

[The_Dover]

Not many.
They are too busy trying to find the Dunkin' Donuts...

If they had any brains they'd use a map like the rest of us....

[Lou Girardin]

Very very true - and it's constant this media bashing of Police.

Time the spread their net to a few other occupations - like pollies for a start.

Pollies are beyond redemption. There's still hope for the Police.
We only bash you guys because we love you.:sick:

[spudchucka]

This message is hidden because spudchucka is on your ignore list.

The thread looks better already.... :nya:
I know the feeling well, enjoy my abscence from your screen.

[Finn]

I know the feeling well, enjoy my abscence from your screen.

I'd prefer your abscence from the roads.

My offer still stands, come work for me Spud. I need a hard arse.

[Swoop]

My offer still stands. I need a hard arse.
Oh dear.

I wouldn't let this become public knowledge if I were you...

[Finn]

Oh dear.

I wouldn't let this become public knowledge if I were you...

Does everything always have to end up in the gutter? Grow up please.

[Swoop]

Does everything always have to end up in the gutter? Grow up please.
No thanks. Nature says I must grow old, but I choose not to grow up...

[The_Dover]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10390730

Must be having a few issues with the road toll in East Timor.

[spudchucka]

I'd prefer your abscence from the roads.

My offer still stands, come work for me Spud. I need a hard arse.
When there's an offer on the table I'll give you an answer. How much $$$$ are you offering and what sort of work do you have in mind?

[Lou Girardin]

When there's an offer on the table I'll give you an answer. How much $$$$ are you offering and what sort of work do you have in mind?

He did give you a clue spud. The proctologist is covered by Southern Cross.

[scumdog]

He did give you a clue spud. The proctologist is covered by Southern Cross.

Going by a lot of comments on KB it sounds like half the members need to be members of Southern Cross....

[paturoa]

In a quiet moment, v late last nite, i was reading this entire thread and a thought occured 2 me b4 the zzzs won.

I know how to solve the speeding prob!

I was watching American Chopa the other day and they made this set of handle bars that ended up being a big sharp spike just on front of the riders head / face.

Any prang and "you'd be eating it" said Vinnie?

Anyway - why dont we put a big spike in cages and bikes etc that sticks out when the speed limit is exceeded, and retracts when below the limit.

I know I would stay below the limit then.

If I then sped, the big bike spike would skewer my nut if I pranged and then I certianly wouldn't be doing it twice as I'd just have had a self - lobotomy and wouldn't drive fast any more. QED

[Lou Girardin]

I think most people understand that there needs to be traffic enforcement and why its there.

I think most of those same people just get pretty upset when it happens at the expense of general duties policing.

Both sides need to be Policed, you cant have one and not the other.

Well said, can we have the other now?

[number33]

Groundhog Day!! (again)

Same old blah-blah-blah, - public whinge & cops 'defend' their position.

Keep it going if it makes you happy but I can't see things changing in the near future guys.

Of course he's right, all this arguing is just tiresome shit. Who fucken needs it. Whether the cops deserve it or not, I for one just can't be fucking bothered with it anymore. Life's too short for bitching. Does that make me a quitter? All the scrappers here, cops included, should turn over a new leaf like me and become responsible, respectable pillars of society instead. Stop laughing..

[Patrick]

Well said, can we have the other now?

Bosses must be reading these threads, coz its worked!!!

They can't give us hours to target traffic stuff any more, coz they want 1 ticket per hour tasked, and that is quotas... or performance indicators...whatever....

[Lou Girardin]

See, I do all this to make life easier for you guys.
No no, don't thank me. It's all in a days work.

[Ixion]

Well, well. Now there's a turn up for the books.

Will it make the slightest difference to the number of people getting tickets , I wonder? Or complaining about it when they do?

And, *now* what are we going to be able to bitch about.

[Lou Girardin]

People who put asterisks around words?

[Mr. Peanut]

People who put asterisks around words?
People who can't spell?

[N4CR]

People who can't spell?
Fags who can't ride?

[The_Dover]

And, *now* what are we going to be able to bitch about.

Ask your wife Ixion, a woman is gauranteed to find something.

[Lou Girardin]

People who can't spell?

People who think faster than they type?

[The_Dover]

Colour of the uniform?

I thought the Police Association was still petitioning for mauve for 2007?

[scumdog]

Took a freshly caught burglar through to Capitol City tonight, turned on my red&blues about five-six times to get speeders to slow down.

Am I a slacker, a good guy or inconsistant??

And will those warned post on KB to say how good cops are.

$0 for the Govt, contact rate 0 - everybody happy with that??

[Lou Girardin]

A full car of burglar beats a pair of speeders every hand.

[Lou Girardin]

I prefer to call the colour man salmon.

You sure it's not man gravy?

[Lou Girardin]

better than human whitebait..


:sick: With little black eyes?

[sAsLEX]

Took a freshly caught burglar through to Capitol City tonight, turned on my red&blues about five-six times to get speeders to slow down.

$0 for the Govt, contact rate 0 - everybody happy with that??

Your on to it scum, I think the vast majority of Kiwis would not mind the fact you were carrying captured crooks at all, in fact most would appluad you for actually catching criminals that damage society rather than mavis going 111

[Swoop]

From the local rag...:blip:

[MSTRS]

Quota?? Surely not? At the Safe-as HB meeting on Tuesday night, a shiny senior copper from Wellytown, who looked like his position was due to a superior ability to kiss arse, spoke at the opening saying "I just want to put the issue of quotas to rest once and for all. The money generated from traffic fines goes into the consolidated fund, not to the police. So you can all see that there can't possibly be a quota system in operation."
WHAT!!!???
These fuckwits must think that we are ALL stupid. It makes no difference where it goes as to whether a quota system is in operation or not.

[Swoop]

saying "I just want to put the issue of quotas to rest once and for all. The money generated from traffic fines goes into the consolidated fund, not to the police. So you can all see that there can't possibly be a quota system in operation."
WHAT!!!???
So, how long and how hard did you laugh at him...?

[MSTRS]

So, how long and how hard did you laugh at him...?
I sniggered (isn't that a great word?) until I realised that he believed himself, then I just quietly descended into depression. My therapist says I'm doing well...

[The_Dover]

My therapist says I'm doing well...

maybe you should give his number to the delusional pig.