1200cc Twins for WSBK '08

[James Deuce]

Apologies if this is a repost, but they just screwed up WSBK to keep Ducati on side. They are still discussing restrictors vs engine modification limits. How do you police the limit option?

They same team also said no to the Triumph 675 in Supersport. The same guys that allowed the FP1 to race for years without a showroom presence in a production based racing class.

Welcome back, "The Ducati Cup".

[cowpoos]

Apologies if this is a repost, but they just screwed up WSBK to keep Ducati on side. They are still discussing restrictors vs engine modification limits. How do you police the limit option?

They same team also said no to the Triumph 675 in Supersport. The same guys that allowed the FP1 to race for years without a showroom presence in a production based racing class.

Welcome back, "The Ducati Cup".

I think this ruling might change the way we see inline 4 production engines firing orders in the future...and I look forward to it jim!

[spudchucka]

It seem pointless when you consider that Bayliss is dominant again on the 1000cc twin. Why give them another 200cc to play with? Are they going to reduce the restrictions on the IL4's to let them compete?

Fucked if I'll bother watching it if it ends up being a one manufacturer domination all over again.

[Squeak the Rat]

Hold on, Troy Bayliss on a [Ducati] v-twin is currently leading the competition........by a country mile.

How do they justify increasing the limit for the lead bike?

I'm a little dissapointed at this news. I've only started watching superbikes again recently after switching off circa 2002 because I saw it was finally a fair competition and some great racing.

I'm afraid I'll probably be switching off again.....Bad news for racing and motorcycling in general.

[SimJen]

The whole reason for going to 1200cc is because Ducati said its too costly for them too compete at the current level with the constant engine rebuilding required. Whats to stop the bastards spending the same money on the 1200's and completely annihalating the opposition.
Its all because Ducati have been the Stalwart of the WBSK for many years and the organisers happen to be Italian!!!
Ducati are rumoured to be in a bit of financial strife at the moment (as all italian bike firms usually are) so with the announcement of a 1200cc bike and the acceptance into a major championship, it can only mean big bucks for them......

[98tls]

I think the japs should do as they said they would and pull out of WSB..fuck the italians let them play with themselves.they have been bitching for years and continually get there way so fuck em..game over,i would certainly rather watch a series being fought out by jap manufacturers than continue to watch ducati blantantly bend rules to suit there needs.

[roogazza]

Thinnest book in the world : Italian book of war heros !

Italian Tanks : 1 Forward gear and 4 Reverse !!!!!! Gaz. :yes: :yes:

[Motu]

Surely they could just make a printing mistake and avoid all this fuss - it worked before......

[Pwalo]

The whole reason for going to 1200cc is because Ducati said its too costly for them too compete at the current level with the constant engine rebuilding required. Whats to stop the bastards spending the same money on the 1200's and completely annihalating the opposition.
Its all because Ducati have been the Stalwart of the WBSK for many years and the organisers happen to be Italian!!!
Ducati are rumoured to be in a bit of financial strife at the moment (as all italian bike firms usually are) so with the announcement of a 1200cc bike and the acceptance into a major championship, it can only mean big bucks for them......

That about sums it up. I remember seeing somewhere that the top Ducati engine casings last a race and they're buggered. Perhaps they should have something like Formula 1 where you are only allowed a certain no of engines per season. Or even better have the same sort of mods that you are allowed in Supersport.

You can't blame the Italians for trying, but when was the last time you saw a Ducati (or any V Twin) succesfully competing in a Superstock race. I know that it's called Superbike, but it's a bit much too see one really fast Ducati wiping the floor and have the factory complaining that it's too expensive.

I like twins (vertical or V), but they can't really compete with the inline fours performance wise on a straight cc basis. Great streetbikes, but ...

[Squeak the Rat]

Interesting that the 675 Triumph isn't allowed..

1200cc for 2 cylinders, 1000cc for 4 cylinders.

So, for every 1 less cylinder, add 10% of the 4 cylinder capacity.
ie. 1000cc + 100 + 100.

So, 600 series
4 cyl = 600, 3 cyl = 600 + 10% = 660 cc

Nope, not allowed.....

[Lou Girardin]

Thinnest book in the world : Italian book of war heros !

Italian Tanks : 1 Forward gear and 4 Reverse !!!!!! Gaz. :yes: :yes:

Mods, I wish to formally protest at this blatant denigration of the proud Italian fighting man.
I wish to protest even more at his lack of originality.
I'm sure roogazza means "my boyfriend is a kangaroo"

Anyhoo, it's obvious why Ducati is winning - traction control. You just had to watch Bayliss and Toseland at Misano, Baylis' bike was on rails (until he lost the front) Toseland was being tossed (punny) all over the place.
When the Japs have traction control working, the Ducatis will be nowhere.
Besides, how did traction control become permitted anyway?

[The_Dover]

Did you say traction control or tractor control??

[Lou Girardin]

Did you say traction control or tractor control??

Harley's don't race in WSBK

[slob]

Why not leave the V2s as 1000cc and make the IL-4s restricted to 800cc, thus bringing them closer to next year's MotoGP machines? Then they could have proper MotoGP replicas as production bikes (not just fancy colour schemes)! CBR800RR, ZX-8RR, YZFR8, GSX-R800 anyone?

[Lou Girardin]

Why not leave the V2s as 1000cc and make the IL-4s restricted to 800cc, thus bringing them closer to next year's MotoGP machines? Then they could have proper MotoGP replicas as production bikes (not just fancy colour schemes)! CBR800RR, ZX-8RR, YZFR8, GSX-R800 anyone?

I'll just go and order my GSXR 800 now then.

[onearmedbandit]

Read in a Motorcycle Trader rag a interview with some honcho from Ducati. He understood the point put forward about Ducati already leading the class without 1200cc bikes, but reasoned it was to do with road bike competition. He argued that the current crop of inline 4's were too powerful to allow the current road going 999 to compete in sales numbers. Allowing them to build a 1200cc road twin would hopefully klevel the playing field. I think he needs to look at pricing as well...

He did say however he was ok with restricting the 1200cc race bike to comparable levels of the inline 4's. They are also content with the same weight limits. All he was asking for, from the formula, was bikes of equal weight and power competing.

[Mr. Peanut]

Read in a Motorcycle Trader rag a interview with some honcho from Ducati. He understood the point put forward about Ducati already leading the class without 1200cc bikes, but reasoned it was to do with road bike competition. He argued that the current crop of inline 4's were too powerful to allow the current road going 999 to compete in sales numbers. Allowing them to build a 1200cc road twin would hopefully klevel the playing field. I think he needs to look at pricing as well...

He did say however he was ok with restricting the 1200cc race bike to comparable levels of the inline 4's. They are also content with the same weight limits. All he was asking for, from the formula, was bikes of equal weight and power competing.

I read that as well, also reckons that the current 999's are so higly tuned etc that servicing costs are not cool.

A 1200 duke would be nice. Anyway, nothing to stop the japanese bringing out a vtwin of their own and making the italians look stupid.

[gav]

Nah, nothing to do with Ducati, think they're just hoping to entice Buell to WSBK!! Aint that right, Rashika? :yes:

[roogazza]

Mods, I wish to formally protest at this blatant denigration of the proud Italian fighting man.
I wish to protest even more at his lack of originality.
I'm sure roogazza means "my boyfriend is a kangaroo"

Anyhoo, it's obvious why Ducati is winning - traction control. You just had to watch Bayliss and Toseland at Misano, Baylis' bike was on rails (until he lost the front) Toseland was being tossed (punny) all over the place.
When the Japs have traction control working, the Ducatis will be nowhere.
Besides, how did traction control become permitted anyway?


Lou, you stick to sheep !! Those Roos can get bloody attractive in the outback, especially the big red ones !!! Gaz. xxx

[Motig]

Only reason I got Sky put back on was I thought the racing in WSB was going to have competitive fields again instead of the Duck Cup. Looks like it'll be going again soon.:bye:

[spudchucka]

Why not leave the V2s as 1000cc and make the IL-4s restricted to 800cc, thus bringing them closer to next year's MotoGP machines? Then they could have proper MotoGP replicas as production bikes (not just fancy colour schemes)! CBR800RR, ZX-8RR, YZFR8, GSX-R800 anyone?
If you are going to bump them down to 800cc then you will be virtually back to where the competion was when the 4's were restricted to 750cc, whats the point?

[sAsLEX]

If you are going to bump them down to 800cc then you will be virtually back to where the competion was when the 4's were restricted to 750cc, whats the point?

saving lives just like your road policing thingy.......think about it move the top bikes away from the litre range you have now and the terminal velocity of the thing s is a little lower and its seen as a positvive step by manufactueres to reduce the speed of the things with places like the EU etc considering banning superbike replicas/busa et al due to their ridiculous speeds.


plus as poos said they should allow the IL4's to run big bang firing orders in order to increase their traction, as that is partly why the v twins out grip the 4s is due to their well spaced power pulses being nicer on the tires

[loosebruce]

You only had to watch the way Bayliss got outa that shitty little chicane at Silverstone to realise just how well the traction control was working the thing would step out hold a line and fuck off out of the corner, is Croser running traction control though?

A 1200cc twin would be awesome on the road, it's a shame that they prolly wont get a decent ruling to govern the performance limits of the bike, something like F1 with number of engines per round, control tyres, and limited modifcations like in Supersport might be a good start, but i cant see it.

MotoGP is fkn good to watch though, so i'll stick to that.

[slob]

If you are going to bump them down to 800cc then you will be virtually back to where the competion was when the 4's were restricted to 750cc, whats the point?

Not exactly, I reckon 800cc IL4s would be a perfect match for 1000cc V2s (we're talking about giving the old 750 IL4s a bit of extra torque + power, that's all).

Stock 1000cc IL4s have too much of an advantage over stock 1000cc V2s at the moment.

[The_Dover]

Quick one.

Why don't the fuckin eyeties just make an IL4 (and I don't mean the fat knacker from the naki, shudder, frankenstein beat them to that) I mean MV managed it??

[slowpoke]

The way I understand it the twin cylinder dukes are allowed more modifications than IL4's under the current rules....this is how they stay competitive but also what makes it so hellishly expensive to race one of the purrty thangs. By being allowed to race 1200's, but limiting the modifications, parity will be maintained but costs will be reduced.

[gav]

Quick one.

Why don't the fuckin eyeties just make an IL4 (and I don't mean the fat knacker from the naki, shudder, frankenstein beat them to that) I mean MV managed it??
Well, why dont they just race this, seeing as they will have a 990cc V4 road bike available.
http://www.ducati.com/desmosedici/

[Grahameeboy]

Well the proof is in the pudding..I guess when they do pre-season testing they will know and if there is a significant difference then they could:

- Add extra weight like with horse racing.
- Handicap system as with golf

to name a few....

Just a wee thought....always a way around an issue eh?

[RantyDave]

4 cyl = 600, 3 cyl = 600 + 10% = 660 cc

Nope, not allowed.....
But by the same logic a 600cc 4 and a 750cc twin shouldn't be regarded as "equal" - which, I believe, is the logic behind the 675 capacity.

Dave

[spudchucka]

saving lives just like your road policing thingy.......think about it move the top bikes away from the litre range you have now and the terminal velocity of the thing s is a little lower and its seen as a positvive step by manufactueres to reduce the speed of the things with places like the EU etc considering banning superbike replicas/busa et al due to their ridiculous speeds.

The reduction in capacity is going to reduce top speeds from what, 320 kph down to 299 kph? In a controlled race track environment with sand traps and inflatable barriers etc etc I don't think the minor reduction in outright terminal velocity will have too much impact on reducing deaths resulting from race crashes.

The superbike rules seem to always be aimed at providing an edge to Ducati, the current set up is the most competitive that I can remember it being but Ducati are still able to dominate. And now they have manipulated an advantage out of the rules once more, it spoils what would otherwise be a great competition.