Welfare hand-out No. 256- ENOUGH ALREADY

[MD]

Arrggh! I nearly threw the telly out the window during tonights News story on giving fruit to kids in low decile schools because they aren't fed properly at home. Lucky I got to the remote in time.
I've had a gutsful of this shit labour govt's never ending pre-occupation to invent more ways of taking everything a worker earns and giving it to bludging undeserving losers.
Do I sound unkind? It's my bloody money so I should have a right to how it's given away. Calm. let me explain. I chose to bring Kids into this world. I chose to work so I could support them- it called a responsibility. Surprising enough that means feeding them. I pay for fruit and veges for MY kids ..and me, and a beer for me once in a while.
The govt takes 39% of what I work for and gives it to complete strangers. I have no choice in this matter. These strangers on the other hand seem to have all the choices in the world? They choose not to work to support themselves and their offspring. Some, a few some, I agree genuinely can't work. They could be used as land fill to extend our runaway? That's another thread maybe.
So these strangers get my money for the essentials of life. Oh I feel all warm inside from my forced charity. After years of watching the News and reading papers I have deduced that they instead choose to spend most on ciggies, booze, the TAB and buying P or equipment to make P.
So to right this wrong, our ever generous Govt decides that, since these strangers deserve their freedom of choice on how they fritter away the taxpayers money, the taxpayer must pay twice to feed the offspring. This is the bit that ticks me off. I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN MONEY FOR THEIR FOOD. So now whether or not a parent should feed their kids properly simply depends on what school they send them to. Call that fair?
Kid A goes to school A - Mum and Dad must feed him properly from their wages- no charity for them the bastards chose to be workers. Kid B on the other hand goes to school B - Oh that's Ok Mum and Dad, you don't have to feed your Kid WITH THE MONEY WE GAVE YOU TO FEED THEM WITH, collect $200 and advance 5 spaces to the pub so you can have extra beer with those ciggies.
A parent is a parent irrespective of the suburb they live in or how they earn money! You can't be released of the obligations of parenthood and even worse, the Govt should not be allowed to force that obligation onto someone else (you & me)
Fire away pc brigade I don't care.

[Ixion]

So vote Communist. The only party that'll deal to the shirkers.

[Finn]

2 things you should do;

1) Remember this next election and spread the word.
2) Go see an accountant. You shouldn't be paying 39% tax.

[Motu]

And what alternative party do you see in our system that will change this??

I'm with Ixion - surrender everything you have to a communist regime,they will send these shirkers to Otago to make pineapple plantations.They will never been seen again.You need real politics.

[babyB]

*shakes head*
I wish hardship never to knock on your door MD




An' it harm none, do what thou wilt

[jazbug5]

Surely the point is more that the children should not have to suffer ill health (potentially) for the rest of their lives just because their parents are crap.

Plus, won't they cost more money in the long term if they get bowel cancer etc?

[MD]

Oh to be a woman and see only good in people that are simply BAD. Predictably for sympathisers you overlooked my point- treat the cause not the symptom. Don't just keep throwing more money at people in the vain hope that some will trickle down to their Kids.
My point is not that the children suffer and deserve better- they do.
My point is out of control escallation of welfare without adequate checks that 1. the beneficiary is genuinely deserving and 2. the money is used appropriately and for what it was supposedly taken from the taxpayer for- a safety net. Welfare to some should be by food stamps otherwise it's wasted and doesn't get passed the pub to the needy kids at home.

Take a drive through a poor suburb, say Cannons Creek and you will see more Sky dishes than flowers. I cancelled Sky years ago because it was a bad influence on my young Kids. I have a tidy garden though.

Hardship does knock on my door- for every 100 steps forward I get knocked back 39 and now I can't afford a new MV Agusta for myself. Why can't the govt force others to pay for my chosen pleasures, it's the same principle they apply against me?

[Biohazard]

I agree in principal with M.D - I wont bore you with my right wing views, just to say..

STOP BEING DROP OUTS & BLAMING IT ON THE REST OF THE WORLD BECOZ YOU ARE F*CKING MORONS AND CAN'T FIGURE SHIT OUR FOR YOURSELVES AND RELY ON THE STATE TO WIPE YOUR ARSES.

I think that about covers it.

Good on ya M.D :niceone:

I've experienced hard times and the labour government didn't lift a finger to help, so bollocks to the hard times theory.

[Swoop]

Can't feed 'em - don't breed 'em.

Simple.

[Fatjim]

I've been on the dole. But because I actually worked before I went on it I had to "stand down" for 10 weeks. Then they offered me $120 a week to cover my $500 mortgage. Then they paid me around $500 in total a week to support my Wife and 3 kids, which just about covered the mortgage. Then when I got a job, they took $3000 of family support back because it's based on your yearly income, not weekly like the other benifits, plus penalties, because I kept throwing the child support notices in the bin, who needs family support when you're working? Maybe I deserved the dole :)

[Finn]

So Jim hasn't got a flat nose.

[Ixion]

*shakes head*
I wish hardship never to knock on your door MD




An' it harm none, do what thou wilt

However, in many ways the people most harmed by the shirkers are those suffering genuine hardship ; the sick, the handicapped, the vulnerable.

One of the reasons I detest shirkers is because they "hijack" the resources and assistance that shoulkd be there for those in genuine need, for whatever reason.

And the "harm none" of the Rede also includes harming thyself. "The Gods cannot help those who will not help themselves"

To thy Wiccan Rede, I will respond with the Communist rede : From each according to his ability: to each according to his need

When the feckless take, not from need but from laziness, they deprive those in genuine need.

[dhunt]

Surely the point is more that the children should not have to suffer ill health (potentially) for the rest of their lives just because their parents are crap.

I agree with you here. But these kids are more than likely going to grow up and do exactly what there parents did - LIVE OFF HANDOUTS.

I think doll bludgers should work for there money. Ie if you get a handout you work (manual labour) depending on your ablities from picking up rubbish or sweeping to working on roads or something.

I think this is the only way there people will actually get out of this mentality.

[ManDownUnder]

I think doll bludgers should work for there money. Ie if you get a handout you work (manual labour) depending on your ablities from picking up rubbish or sweeping to working on roads or something.


Agreed - 2 thoughts on that
1) Put 'em all through an army boot camp. Beat discipline into them. It'll only do them, and society at large, good.
2) Who saw the thing on borderline about the lack of fruit pickers?

We have orchardists with not enough labour, migrant labour being booted out because of no work visa (and fair enough), and how many people sitting on their arses collecting the dole???

Na mate. 1 month on the dole, then you go through boot camp if you don't have a job. You don't show up you are considered AWOL and dealt with accordingly.

*ding* NEXT!

Re the parents not feeding their kids - that's a bigger more systemic issue. Again - put 'em through boot camp. Teach them how to fend for themselves, and how to cook properly. No-one else ha obviously done it so the State needs to intervene.

The ambulance is needed at the bottom of this cliff so the kids don't suffer. I agree with the sentiment thjey shouldn't be disadvantged by dumb arse parents that (through ignorance or stupidity) don't feed them right and spend money on other crap.

I also think corrective/preventative measures need to be taken - the army seems a good place to start.

A kick in the arse ought to help.
MDU rant slowing to a sprint...

[kickingzebra]

Been on both sides of the hardship coin, and to be honest, being white, and unwilling to take the dole period, there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the government would do for me. WINZ wouldn't even allow me on their job seeker books unless I was on the dole.
After 9 months off work, due to an injury that ACC wriggled out of paying for (hindsight says I would have won in court) I went to WINZ at the suggestion of a budget advisor, to be told the exact same thing, sign on the dole, it only has to be for a few weeks, and then we'll sort something out.

I believe that attitude breeds apathy and depression, and that is half the reason these 3rd generation welfare dependants are still at it.
Give the man a hand up, not a hand out.

Hand outs don't solve anything. Good morals, and personal responsibility, they solve problems.

The commie way, in this instance would work too...(runway fill and pineapple plantations) Only one problem, what good is it me having an MV agusta thou, if everyone else has one. Good endeavour deserves reward, lest there be no motive for endeavour. That would be a backwards slide.

[dnos]

I have to say i agree with whats being said.
It is really depressing to see so many people spending someone elses (or mine) hard earned money on booze and drugs. I'm not saying all beneficiaries do it but that is what we see and that is what we believe.
Some people genuinely can't work, but the majority don't WANT to work. And that is what pisses me off. And having to go on the dole to get job opportunities is ridiculous - why bother getting a job if you are already getting money for nothing. I thought it was compulsory to be actively seeking employment to recieve the dole but from what i gather its not enforced and it can't be hard to give any employer you are thicker than a plank thus not getting hired.

Seems like something really needs to be done about the way the government is treating the problem - increasing payouts and expanding the number of people they are available to is the exact opposite to what is needed.

[terbang]

The govt takes 39% of what I work for and gives it to complete strangers. I have no choice in this matter.

You vote..?

[Swoop]

I have to say i agree with whats being said.
It is really depressing to see so many people spending someone elses (or mine) hard earned money on booze and drugs.
I prefer the food voucher system. NO money into their hands - straight to the food supplier and bills paid direct.
If they want money for fags, P, "Pshhhttt" blow off toys for their jappa import, or whatever - then they go and earn it.

[Biohazard]

You vote..?

An unfortunate idialistic outlook there...

We no doubt vote in the direction which is good for the country, but the major problem is that there are alot of scrungers/ dumb arse low lifes who also have the ability to vote and they will always vote for for a system that means they dont have to work and get everything for nowt..

Fooking knobeads.......

[The_Dover]

I'm thinking of going on the dole.

[DMNTD]

I'm thinking of going on the dole.
Same... :wait:

[u4ea]

You vote..?


bak when i went back to work,my son was two and nats were in.i was on the dpb as i was an abused woman,which i understood it was designed for single parents who were vulnerable,i lived in a little state unit which was $64 a week.I had a part time job but there was no childcare assistance then!!!!!now i am on acc but when working fulltime i was only about $30 a week better off than the dpb with a part time job.i have been a part time soldier when my son was 8 yrs old.no childcare then either!!!!!!!!!!no incentive but my own drive to get my small family off the system and own my own home which has been a hard road but one which is worth it.i have recently heard a story of an apprentichip where 3 boys where euro and the rest were flatnosed and the latter got a $600 rebate on their fees...............why work harder when ya dont have to right????????????????????????????

[scumdog]

A lot of my 'client base' are on the benefit of various sorts.

Most (but not all) make no effort to get a job, they smoke, drink, do drugs, drive crappy no-reg/no-wof cars, have a section that looks like a Beirut airstrike took place there, have a house that looks like a midden inside, (WTF?- they have all day to tidy it up!), they have trendy skulls on the mantle-piece, a cheapo imitation Harley flag/rug on the wall, a sink full of unwashed dishes, the place reeks of stale cooking fat from fry-ups, a majority have some X-box mind-melter thing and they breed like rabbits.

Their fortnightly 'social event' is going to court on court day and catching up (or appearing themselves) with those about to appear in court.

And we PAY them to do all this???

Some I have met are really looking after themselves, their kids and getting all the work they can, they ARE making an effort, - those ones I salute and have a lot of time for.

[kickingzebra]

I prefer the food voucher system. NO money into their hands - straight to the food supplier and bills paid direct.
If they want money for fags, P, "Pshhhttt" blow off toys for their jappa import, or whatever - then they go and earn it.

Power and telephone are not fundamental rights.
200 years ago you wanted to be warm, you robbed someones coat, killed an animal and used its skin, or did something useful to trade for something warm.

Now they rob us without even trying!!

While I am not saying we should let people go hungry, the basics is what government funded sustenance should be. Nought more than that.

And the hand up concept, practical help into work or business.

[DMNTD]

...And the hand up concept, practical help into work or business.

Unfortunately it isn't that easy in most cases....pity.
I am on an invalids benefit,one that they say I can stay on for the rest of my life :gob:
I was shocked,appauled when told this. Obviously,or maybe not,I'm not keen on this and have put my own steps into place to ensure that I'm not a leach on society for life,and have recently created my own Co. without ANY help from WINZ.
Benefits,especially straight unemployment benefits, are for losers for the most part IMHO.
The best thing they do these days though is provide training for the unemployed so they have a better chance of getting and keeping a job.

In saying all of that I do think giving the kids some fruit is a good thing...it isn't their fault their "parents" are frecking losers that just bought a tinnie/beer/V8 or sneezing car.

[Beemer]

Surely the point is more that the children should not have to suffer ill health (potentially) for the rest of their lives just because their parents are crap.

Plus, won't they cost more money in the long term if they get bowel cancer etc?

The point is, giving them a piece of fruit a day won't make a jot of difference in the long run. Did anyone see the item on TV? They asked the kids what they had for lunch. Was it something healthy, including more fruit that their parents had provided? Nope, it was pies and chips and fizzy drinks. So giving them a piece of free fruit a day was like giving them a vitamin pill - unless there are long-term changes made in their diet, they will be just as fat, lazy and unhealthy as their parents in a few years. Giving kids decent food should be something that is automatic. Immunising them against disease is something the government should be doing, quite rightly, but the responsibility of providing good food stops with the parents.

Teach them how to cook as well - how many would have no idea how to cook a nutritious and cheap meal? Hell, I buy blade steak and turn it into delicious casseroles with potatoes, carrots and other veges. Total cost for enough for four servings? About $10. Total cost for takeaways for four people? A hell of a lot more than $10, that's for sure. Last night we had tomato and mushroom risotto and sausages - total cost for about six servings was maybe $12. And don't get me started on what you can do with mince!

[jazbug5]

The ambulance is needed at the bottom of this cliff so the kids don't suffer. I agree with the sentiment thjey shouldn't be disadvantged by dumb arse parents that (through ignorance or stupidity) don't feed them right and spend money on other crap.


This is basically what I was saying.

The poor little feckers did not choose to be born; at least if they get some decent nutrition they might actually pay attention better at school (BIG link between nutrition and attention span) and maybe better themselves.

Personal note: my mum's dad died really young because he was physically f*cked as a result of having been fed buggerall of any value when he was growing up. His dad was an alcoholic bludger, but Grandad was a hard worker from childhood, and supported his whole family from the age of 12.
Just because a parent is a lazy arsehole does not mean the kid automatically will be.

[Macktheknife]

I had the opportunity to live for a while in a country that had no social support system like we do, it was tough when I fell on hard times, very tough. But I was highly motivated to get myself sorted and fed and a job was found in reasonably short order (which I hated). Then I got another job as well (which I also didnt like) and progressed into a better first job (which was ok), within a short time I was back on my feet and doing ok. I worked my butt off and was happy about the achievement, even if not the circumstances.
My point is, if you have to do it to stay alive, you tend to get motivated pretty fast. There are those within our system that really need help and they should get it, there are also those who just can't be bothered getting off their arses and doing some work. So for those people, they should be made to work for whatever they get, simple.
I believe things will improve if work for the dole comes into effect, work for 3 days per week and have 2 days to look for work.
Bring on the food vouchers and yes sure why not give the kids some fruit, it might be the only time they get some. More importantly it must be given to all the kids to promote health not handouts to minority groups.
Failing that, introduce the compulsory cutoff in 3 months.

[jazbug5]

Fair point, Beemer. School dinners should not include crap like that at all.
Everyone should know how too cook nutritious, cheap meals.

However, sugary/fatty foods are 'feelgood' foods for a lot of people- not to mention easier. Lazyness, yes- but junk food companies are very happy to capitalise on peoples' weakness.

[emaN]

I've had a gutsful of this shit labour govt's never ending pre-occupation to invent more ways of taking everything a worker earns and giving it to bludging undeserving losers.

right with ya bro!

I'm pretty sure in the US getting the dole is a 'once in a life-time' event.

Reckon that's what we need here;
lose your job, go on the dole for 6mths.
after 6mths it drops to 80%
3mths after that, 40%
3mths after that, nada, zip.

AND, you don't get it for another 5yrs.
(yes, of course, there will be 'exceptions'; ie if the Co you work for goes bust etc etc... my suggestion is trying to deter people from "jumping ship" as easily)

[Indiana_Jones]

Go right wing

-Indy

[The Stranger]

Used to find it interesting when working for KFC as a contractor. We weren't allowed to be near a store on dole day, they were too busy.

They planned their business arround dole day.

We built a church in Mangere, Next to a TAB and a pub. You always knew dole day and for a few days after the pub and TAB would be thriving businesses.

[SwanTiger]

I'm going to create my own Political Party.

I need 500 signatures and a few other legalities sorted and then i'll be on over $100,000 a year for representing your views.

Plus all the financial benefits the party and its memebers will receive, this could be a rather lucrative venture.

Who wants the Ministry of Transportation portfolio?

[Biohazard]

I'm going to create my own Political Party.

I need 500 signatures and a few other legalities sorted and then i'll be on over $100,000 a year for representing your views.

Plus all the financial benefits the party and its memebers will receive, this could be a rather lucrative venture.

Who wants the Ministry of Transportation portfolio?

Fookin A - I'll have some of that....


where do I sign

[Jonty]

I agree with you MD, but leaving emotion aside the interesting thing I learn't from my years studing economics is that welfare does play a large part in economic growth. I may sound odd, but if you think about it - who will buy the farmers milk and bread and Lion Nathan's booze if a large percentage of the country cannot afford it. It is a form of wealth distribution. If welfare is not provided you will find that the wealth becomes locked up in wealthy peoples' investments and the commodity sales which we rely on take a dive.

There is a fine balance and not many governments have got it right, but it is important to note that it is a requirment of a functioning economy. Leaving that aside, the way in which it is distributed in this country leave a lot to be desired.

[madboy]

MD, stop surfing the net and get your ass back to work. Thousands are depending on you.

Why work when the government can support you in the same or very similar manner? Honestly, think about it. If we're all earning $100k+ and our bike payments (let alone mortgages/kids private education/holidays, etc) wouldn't even be covered by the dole, why would we EVER go on the dole for any period of time?

But what if we worked for minimum wage, or say $15/hr. 40 hours @ $15 = $600, less tax = say $480. I can get that on the dpb. Why would I want to go to work and take shit for 40 hours a week, PLUS pay childcare costs, PLUS pay transport costs to work, PLUS pay for a certain level of clothing for work, PLUS miss Oprah and Dr Phil. FFS - who would work for that?

Sure, I might have trouble swinging $480 on the dole, but get an "illness" and your sickness benefit will pay a bit more, then get a job on the side and don't tell WINZ...

[Indiana_Jones]

man it's nice to see some people with common sense :D, that's one thing I like about KB

Too bad most people in my age group don't think us, they're all hug a tree types :P

-Indy

[Swoop]

Who wants the Ministry of Transportation portfolio?
:blip: :blip: :blip: :blip:

[Lou Girardin]

When I shifted to Rotorua some years ago, I was warned not to go the Postbank on Thursday. Not knowing what they were on about, I wondered in one wet Thursday and nearly gagged from the stink of dozens of wet, unwashed bodies waiting in the dole queue.
You can be poor, but soap is cheap.

[MikeyG]

I think the dole is too hard to get on and too easy to stay on.

There are a lot of jobs out there but at the same time people should have the time to pick a job they want. I couldn't find a job straight out of uni but didn't want a minimum wage job b'cos I am qualified for way more than that. I couldn't go on the dole because of a 26 week stand down. My view is the dole should be for people between jobs and available for 6-8 weeks only with no stand-down period. This would give people time to go for jobs they want before having to resort to something underpaid and undervalued but also would stop the dole being a lifestyle.

Also give kids a full wage but put a cap on the number of hours they are allowed to work each week during the school year. How can kids get a good education when they are doing 8hrs a day on top of school.

[paturoa]

.....My view is the dole should be for people between jobs and available for 6-8 weeks only with no stand-down period.....

no, go get a job, if you want a better job then dont expect me to pay you to look around for a few weeks till u find one.

[paturoa]

watched an interview on the box a couple of weeks back and a "researcher" was being interviewed.

Anyway she was complaining that the gap between the "rich" and the "poor" was increasing despite of the extra welfare payments of the labour gubbermint (working for fams and a bunch of other things).

Can't remember the exact question she was asked but went something like....

"..so, as welfare payments have increased your research shows that the gap between the rich and the poor has increased at the same time?"

she changed the topic immediately...

[sunhuntin]

finally! like minded people!!

i flatted for a while with a young couple [approx 21 or so] who had a young baby....so dpb and unemployment benefit. neither wanted to work, and im willing to bet their kid will be the same. in a house of 3 other adults [her father as well] i was the only one that worked....finished at midnight, then come home and have to dodge shit filled nappies, half filled plates and glasses all through the living room....never mind the dogs and cat.

as most of you will know, WINZ hands out petrol vouchers like candy. ive had numerous customers [hard working tax payers, like us] come in complaining cos one of our petrol sites provides all those vouchers for winz, which means joe-worker cant get any! and then on the flip side....joe-bludger comes in with a $20 voucher and buys a pak of cigs and a lighter...of else they try and use a voucher for a .40c box of matches. so my rule...spend at least half or piss off.

i hate that your money, my money and the money of my parents is paying for fat lazy slobs to sit on their arses and do nothing. mum cleans at a place that provides courses for school drop outs....the girls there literally plan to fall preg asap and get on the dpb.

there seriously needs to be something done. and soon.

[Deano]

I was thinking about the Kahui case yesterday and concluded it is simply a vicious cycle.

Family realises it can screw the system by overcrowding a house and receive multiple benefits.

Meningitis breaks out in the family due to the overcrowding conditions.

Medical Officer of Health reports to the gubmint that the 'poor' and in particular Maori are represented disproportionately in morbidity rates.

Gubmint allocates more funds for Maori health incentives, community service cards etc that taxpayers subsidise.

Family ends up with even more 'real' income, and encourage all their extended family to do the same. (Hey what's a little meningititis compared to getting beaten to death)

This is not particularly directed at Maori, but this example is what got me thinking.