Don't take a knife to a gunfight ! [Archive]

magicfairy

27th July 2006, 14:05

Just in on the Stuff News Site:

MACHETE-WIELDER SHOT IN GUN SHOP
27 July 2006

A man who took a machete into a South Auckland gun shop today is in hospital, after he was shot in the stomach.

The man was thought to have been shot by someone in the shop about 10am.

Police spokeswoman, Noreen Hegarty said details of the shooting were still vague and she could not say what "the precursor to him being shot was.

"It would be reasonable to question why he went into the shop with a machete."

placidfemme

27th July 2006, 14:13

haha good!

natural selection if ever I saw it

kickingzebra

27th July 2006, 14:13

Aha, damn, that'll feckin learn him!!!

SimJen

27th July 2006, 14:14

Genius.....
Perhaps he thought it was a flowershop?

Str8 Jacket

27th July 2006, 14:17

I blame P.....

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 14:18

I see a candidate for a Darwin 'honourable mention',... muppet.

SpankMe

27th July 2006, 14:21

Police spokeswoman, Noreen Hegarty said details of the shooting were still vague and she could not say what "the precursor to him being shot was.

The guy had a fucking machete!! If ya stupid enough to take one into a gun shop, you deserved to be shot.

Darryboy

27th July 2006, 14:21

Unfortunately for the shop owner the pleece are treating it as homicide/attempted homicide.

SpankMe

27th July 2006, 14:22

Pisses me off that you have no right to defend yourself/others in this country. If it's someone else you don't know, better to let them die than to risk life in prison for using lethal force to defend them.

SimJen

27th July 2006, 14:28

It'll be interesting to know more about the case, it might not be as it seems......
Hmmm:

Machete wielder: Hello Mr Gun shop owner do you service Machete's like this one here?
Gun Shop Owner: No fuck off, BANG.

or could be

Machete wielding nutter: Hello Mr Gunshop owner, I want to kill you by chopping you into little bite size pieces.
Gun Shop Owner: Oh okay but first eat this....BANG

WRT

27th July 2006, 14:29

I dont think I could just "let them die", especially as Life in Prison in NZ means you're out in 3 years anyway.

Str8 Jacket

27th July 2006, 14:30

It'll be interesting to know more about the case, it might not be as it seems......

Surely in a gun shop they would have video surveilance (sp?) that they can look back on and actually see what happened? You'd think anyway...

magicfairy

27th July 2006, 14:31

Unfortunately for the shop owner the pleece are treating it as homicide/attempted homicide.
Not surprising. When my other half renewed his gun license he had to answer "when is it OK to use a gun in self-defence?"
The correct answer boils down to (well the answer you must provide if you wanna keep your license)
"if they shoot first and miss"

Even if they come at you with a knife, or are standing there with a gun pointed at you, it could still be argued that you used excessive force.

Squeak the Rat

27th July 2006, 14:35

Beemer

27th July 2006, 14:49

Sounds like his favourite game must be rock, paper, scissors...

What a moron, half the dairy owners are probably armed nowadays, did he think the guy behind the counter of a GUN shop wouldn't be? Hope the video surveillance shows the guy threatening to kill the owner or taking a swipe at someone in the shop. Deserves everything he got, just a pity he survived.

The_Dover

27th July 2006, 14:51

Shame the machete wielding maniac (if indeed that was the case) will get a few hours community service and a small fine at worst.

The gun shop worker will probably go down for PD for being a risk to one of Helen's beneficiaries.

sAsLEX

27th July 2006, 14:52

Postie

27th July 2006, 14:53

You can't set a precedent by shooting some one who was trying to kill you. Doing this would send the message that it is ok to shoot people. It is NEVER ok to shoot some one, regardless of the circumstances. The gunshop owner should have reasoned with the confused individual in this instance.

You lot should join the NRA. Shame.

That sounds like hippy, tree hugging, green party talk. The only thing worse then a politician, is a hippy politician who wants to save the wales, the poor, the trees and the planet. If i had a gun and someone was coming at me with so much as a pocket knife, I would shoot him, probably in the knees first, then I he tried to bite my ankles, I'd put one in his noggin. Its bull shit that this country will give a prisoner who has already been convicted and put in jail, ACC compensation when he gets injured trying to escape. He should have his legs and arms broken and put in solitary till his bones heal and then ask if he wants to try to escape again. The gun shop owner should be given a bottle of JD for his community service

Squeak the Rat

27th July 2006, 14:57

Bwaaahahahaha. Yes it was sarcasm, i didn't actually think any one would say something like that and mean it, but then I remembered our country is run by morons..

I hate knives. If some one pulls a knife unprovoked then the situation should automatically be classed as attempted murder. Appropriate retaliation should be allowed to ensure the other party survives un-hurt.

[Edit:] PS - postie: wales sucks, you can nuke it for all i care. And giving JD to the guy is a cruel punishment.....

Lou Girardin

27th July 2006, 15:04

Quote (from a long forgotten cop movie) "If he throws a punch, use your nightstick. If he pulls a knife, use your weapon. Cancel his ticket right there".

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 15:16

SELF-DEFENCE: Use of lethal force..... entirely appropriate.

Last I heard the police were "keeping an open mind" on the situation. I just wish he hadn't missed the vitals, dead men don't tell lies and bleat about how they are the real victim.
I will honestly go and buy the shop owner a beer if he isnt locked up first.

Swoop

27th July 2006, 15:18

F*ckin' - A!
Darwin award winner got all he deserved.

The poor business owner will get a shafting from the pinkos in the cops and the gubbinment over this though.

At least the businessman didn't have to wait for the cops to get out of the donut shop to get a resolution to his problem...

Swoop

27th July 2006, 15:20

I will honestly go and buy the shop owner a beer if he isnt locked up first.
x 2. and I have a good idea where to start looking.

Whynot

27th July 2006, 15:23

"She said going into a gunshop with a machete was not the smartest thing for anyone to do."

:yes:

Winston001

27th July 2006, 15:26

The only thing worse then a politician, is a hippy politician who wants to save the wales..........

Why have you got it in for Wales? What has Wales done? :gob: :gob:

Land of Tom Jones, Gareth Davies, and Dylan Thomas. Not to mention Catherine Zeta Jones. :yes:

Ok, there are the leaks, I'll grant you that.................

frogfeaturesFZR

27th July 2006, 15:31

When I used to shoot at one of Akld's pistol clubs I got to know a few of the coppers who also belonged. They told me, SSHH secret, fire twice, first through the head, and second into the ceiling. Then when we ask you - reverse the order you fired and say that even after a warning shot the guy kept on coming.

Patrick

27th July 2006, 15:31

x 2. and I have a good idea where to start looking.

Looks like you two owe the man (I take you were meaning the shop keeper???) a beer. Bet he isn't locked up (Dumb Arse Machete "P" head Darwin Award winner, I mean...).

sAsLEX

27th July 2006, 15:36

acewheelie

27th July 2006, 15:38

There is a bank across the road from the gun shop, he was probably upgrading the machete for a gun. The gun shop have probably averted an armed hold up at the bank (indirectly) Ray and Co should get a medal!

Patrick

27th July 2006, 15:40

do they get trained to fire a warning shot? spud, scum?

17 shot magazine, hopefully 1 will hit the target while the arse pucker factor is doing 17million rpm... officially all the missed shots were "warning shots...":blip:

eliot-ness

27th July 2006, 15:45

Why have you got it in for Wales? What has Wales done?

Ok, there are the leaks, I'll grant you that.................

Wales doesn't leak. They plugged the holes with Leeks

Lou Girardin

27th July 2006, 15:47

The news said "police are keeping an open mind about self-defence".
No shit, Sherlock.
It was a gun shop FFS. Should they have called the cops and waited 3 hours?

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 15:48

do they get trained to fire a warning shot? spud, scum?
Not the way I was trained, you shoot for the centre of visible mass. "If you have time to fire a warning shot then you dont need to fire at all" thats what my instructor told me. Mind you he also said that if you are going to shoot someone make it count, kill them. "Continue firing until the threat is removed."
But that was in a different time and place so maybe its different here.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Swoop

27th July 2006, 15:48

Looks like you two owe the man (I take you were meaning the shop keeper???) a beer. Bet he isn't locked up (Dumb Arse Machete "P" head Darwin Award winner, I mean...).
I have chilled beers here at the moment and will happily present them to the shop owners!

GR81

27th July 2006, 15:48

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10393278

BeakerRAT

27th July 2006, 15:50

Sounds like the guy with the knife should be a candidate for a Darwin award.:weird:

Swoop

27th July 2006, 15:53

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10393278
Confirmed.

SPman

27th July 2006, 15:55

I dont think I could just "let them die", especially as Life in Prison in NZ means you're out in 3 years anyway.
Oh yes - in whose dream.
Life, normally means 8-9 years before you can become eligible for parole and the minimum parole time can and is, often specified at sentencing. When you are released, you are out on life parole, normally, if its murder, which means you can be recalled to carry on serving your sentence at any time, if you re offend or fuck up. Its not that common but it does happen.

Anyway - if I was threatened with, or was attacked by someone and I had a gun, I would use it! I'd rather it was me alive to face any consequences than the other fucker!

sAsLEX

27th July 2006, 15:59

17 shot magazine, hopefully 1 will hit the target while the arse pucker factor is doing 17million rpm... officially all the missed shots were "warning shots...":blip:

Doesn't really answer my question, I know other people are trained to only draw a weapon when intending to use it and a firearm was never intended to warn people, the many verbal or other warnings should of sufficied and after that rounds to the COM till they cease to be a threat.

Finn

27th July 2006, 16:02

This country makes me laugh. In the herald it says "but the business owner has not been arrested". Huh? Fuck, with the amount of violent crime going on, it's time we said enough is enough. This little shit would be known to police and would have a record a mile long already.

The low life is in a serious condition in hospital. Lets hope the fucker dies so it'll only cost an ambo ride and a couple of hours in surgery.

Die scum, die!

WRT

27th July 2006, 16:02

Oh yes - in whose dream.
Life, normally means 8-9 years before you can become eligible for parole and the minimum parole time can and is, often specified at sentencing. When you are released, you are out on life parole, normally, if its murder, which means you can be recalled to carry on serving your sentence at any time, if you re offend or fuck up. Its not that common but it does happen.

Alright, so I exagerated, but so is calling it "Life".

Anyway - if I was threatened with, or was attacked by someone and I had a gun, I would use it! I'd rather it was me alive to face any consequences than the other fucker!

Fully agreed on that.

Squeak the Rat

27th July 2006, 16:04

This country makes me laugh. In the herald it says "but the business owner has not been arrested". Huh? Fuck, with the amount of violent crime going on, it's time we said enough is enough.
He hasn't been arrested because there are no police available. However, today in Penrose police issued a record number of traffic infringement notices...:killingme

Colapop

27th July 2006, 16:06

What we should be doing is encouraging as many 'P' heads as possible to go into that shop... They should get more accurate as time goes by...

ManDownUnder

27th July 2006, 16:11

I know the shop reasonably well..

You have to go down a driveway (only way in and out) and about 20m off the road you go through a door (again... only way in/out)...

Perfect for seclusion from the road, but not so good if an escape/fallback plan is needed. The idiot set himself up to be ambushed.

The guy behind the counter (or whoever) would only have to take 10 stpes and he'd be at the door, blocking the means of escape... and he'd have access to guns... of course.

I'd say it's reasonable to assume the guy wanted guns (cash would be found at the bank up the road), and if I was threatened by someone demanding a gun... the chances are their 2nd demand would involve considerable threat to me well being.

I'm not an advocate of shooting people, but I expect in this case it may have been the only option.

Lou Girardin

27th July 2006, 16:11

"D" FZ1

27th July 2006, 16:13

DAMM SHAME :rofl:

The Pastor

27th July 2006, 16:14

They better not do the gun shop owner for manslaughter/worse, I know i'd rather be confronted with a gun than a knife. Usally when A knife comes out they are going to use it - and know how to use it. When somone pulls a gun on you its *usally* more for imtimidation and as long as you do what they say and dont agrivate them you will get out alive.

I would of done excatly what that guy did. First yell out to drop the knife, and shoot the ceiling - then boom headshot.

SPman

27th July 2006, 16:14

At close range - 12 gauge riot gun would be the go!

Colapop

27th July 2006, 16:14

Probably a gun I'd say.... The bow & arrow shop is up the road.

Colapop

27th July 2006, 16:15

They better not do the gun shop owner for manslaughter/worse, I know i'd rather be confronted with a gun than a knife. Usally when A knife comes out they are going to use it - and know how to use it. When somone pulls a gun on you its *usally* more for imtimidation and as long as you do what they say and dont agrivate them you will get out alive..
Ummm it is a gun shop you'd be kinda pissed if you went in there and they didn't know how to use a gun...

Lias

27th July 2006, 16:17

Good job.. Pity he might live!

WRT

27th July 2006, 16:17

I wonder what he shot him with?
Having a crim walk into a gun shop would be like selecting a club for golf.

Hmmm, shall I use the 9mm or is the .40 more appropriate?

I suppose if he was lying there riddled with bullets you could call it death by natural causes.

Reminds me of the scene in Pulp Fiction where Bruce Willis is just about to head back down into the basement.

And I suppose if you couldnt get away with natural causes, you could try for lead poisoning, or an allergic reaction to guns.

Swoop

27th July 2006, 16:21

Ummm it is a gun shop you'd be kinda pissed if you went in there and they didn't know how to use a gun...
The simple thing is that all staff at a gun shop work there because they have an interest in what they do.

There are shotgunners, pistol shooters and collectors - just to start with...

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that the perp was shot in the stomach?????

Lousy shooting bro.

Squeak the Rat

27th July 2006, 16:24

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that the perp was shot in the stomach?????

Maybe he was hoping for slow and painful death. Should have used a shotgun. Maybe this post will get deleted like my last similar one.....

Colapop

27th July 2006, 16:25

You sound hopeful Squeaky..

Jantar

27th July 2006, 16:34

Not the way I was trained, you shoot for the centre of visible mass. "If you have time to fire a warning shot then you dont need to fire at all" thats what my instructor told me. Mind you he also said that if you are going to shoot someone make it count, kill them. "Continue firing until the threat is removed."
My training was similar. Never point a weapon at someone unless you intend to use it. When you do point a weapon at another person squeeze the trigger, and keep on squeezing until the threat is removed. If you try and give a warning you are dead.

acewheelie

27th July 2006, 16:38

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 16:46

Did I mention that I have only sympathy for the shopowner, and maybe the guys who have to clean up afterwards.
Gotta agree with swoop though, that shop isnt that big, shoulda been able to get a kill shot without too much trouble.

Swoop

27th July 2006, 16:52

Being an average shot with a handgun, I'm backing up the guys that have done military/ police firearm training, always shoot for the biggest target.

Head shot no good in this instance, the guy obviously didn't have a brain.
Police handgun training is a joke. If you stand 3 metres away from your target you should be able to hurt someone else apart from yourself...

Try 50 metres. and then go back to 75 metres.

ManDownUnder

27th July 2006, 16:54

ManDownUnder

27th July 2006, 16:54

Police handgun training is a joke. If you stand 3 metres away from your target you should be able to hurt someone else apart from yourself...

Try 50 metres. and then go back to 75 metres.

You'd be lucky to find 5 meters in that shop

Swoop

27th July 2006, 16:57

You'd be lucky to find 5 meters in that shop
Exceedingly true...

Finn

27th July 2006, 16:58

This reminds me of a guy who tried to rob a convenience store in Texas armed with a knife. The 60 year old lady owner shot him... 12 times, 6 in the head.

This was in the morning and the shop was opened again after lunch.

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 17:06

And they fact they could have, but didn't counts for a lot in my book. They just got my business
They have always had mine, and will continue to do so.

marty

27th July 2006, 17:06

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10393306

update from harold

Finn

27th July 2006, 17:06

Update... I think the father speaks for most of us. Good on him.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10393306

Bend-it

27th July 2006, 17:08

I love this!! Hilarious!! Apart from the fact that the idiot will be using claiming ACC and we, ladies and gentlemen, will be paying first for his medical treatment, and second, for his incarceration.

Cause of death: brain hemorrhage, wound entrance diameter : 9mm

Colapop

27th July 2006, 17:12

"Like anyone in this country, he doesn't have to have his head bloody cut off before he does something about it."

"We have a duty to the general public not to let people do this. We take our business seriously"
He should be our next Prime Minister!

Bend-it

27th July 2006, 17:13

That's right... He has my vote!

Patrick

27th July 2006, 17:51

I have chilled beers here at the moment and will happily present them to the shop owners!

"You can do it... you da water boy..." Where have i heard that before?

Patrick

27th July 2006, 17:56

Doesn't really answer my question, I know other people are trained to only draw a weapon when intending to use it and a firearm was never intended to warn people, the many verbal or other warnings should of sufficied and after that rounds to the COM till they cease to be a threat.

Hmmm... Are you saying verbal or other warnings should have sufficed first?

As in.. "Stop stabbing me in the chest or I will be forced to shoot you..."

Or,

"Is that gun loaded, coz if it is, I will have to [BANG!]....." Bugger... guess it was loaded...:wait:

scumdog

27th July 2006, 18:07

My training was similar. Never point a weapon at someone unless you intend to use it. When you do point a weapon at another person squeeze the trigger, and keep on squeezing until the threat is removed. If you try and give a warning you are dead.

True Jantar - and when that was done at Waitara EVERYBODY (well the noisy brainless ones) said 'Why did he get shot so many times" WTF??????

Brett

27th July 2006, 18:12

They had better not f#cking do the guy for attempted murder. I mean, the dumb ass broke into a fricken GUN shop with a machete what does he think will happen?? DUMB SHIT.

I think the police should give the guy credit for disabling without killing rather than prosecuting. He is lucky the bloke didn't shoot to instantly kill...i.e a shot in his empty head. I have seen that they stock Desert Eagles there, that would have made quite some mess compared to a 9mm!

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 18:45

I just watchwed the clip on the news and the guy was trying to get up off the floor. No exit wound visible so must have been small calibre, maybe .22.
I find it amusing that anyone with half the brains god gave a loaf of bread could think this was a workable idea. I mean really... what was he thinking?
I know I will go rob a high security GUN store with my trusty machete and demand they give me a gun and some money. No risk of that going wrong!
The owner is not saying that they keep a loaded gun behind the counter because that is illegal, BUT, I know a couple of guys who work in the trade and I believe it is common practice for a 'demo' weapon to be 'out for display/trial purposes'.
Please god, let all NZ's criminal elements be this dumb.

Macktheknife

27th July 2006, 18:46

boostin

27th July 2006, 18:49

First I have to say that the offender had to be stupid to go into a gun shop with a knife, and hopefully the guy that shot him has no troubles with the law. Hopefully the witnesses and camera footage can back him up?

While on the movie quotes, this reminds me of the quote "Your gun says replica...and mine says Desert Eagle .50" Not sure of the movie off the top of my head.

The only problem I can see the shop assistant having will be if they kept a loaded gun under the counter...from what I know they are meant to keep the ammo separate from the gun?

Even so, hopefully common sense comes into play.

frogfeaturesFZR

27th July 2006, 19:51

Lock, stock and 2 smoking barrels. :innocent:

oldrider

27th July 2006, 21:40

I bet they sell machete's, I hope he wasn't just wanting it sharpened and the young fellah panicked! :blip:
I can just hear the defense lawyer now! Sucking away at the public trough of course! :sick: He was missunderstood your Honour!

Maha

27th July 2006, 21:55

Why have you got it in for Wales? What has Wales done? :gob: :gob:

Land of Tom Jones, Gareth Davies, and Dylan Thomas. Not to mention Catherine Zeta Jones. :yes:

Ok, there are the leaks, I'll grant you that.................

And here's me thinking that only good thing to come out of Wales was....
The road to England.......................:scooter:

Swoop

27th July 2006, 22:33

The only problem I can see the shop assistant having will be if they kept a loaded gun under the counter...from what I know they are meant to keep the ammo separate from the gun?
The pistols are displayed in glass cases that make up the serving counter. Ammunition is very close by and I'm sure it wouldn't take long to load up, especially if another staff member was the person actually serving the "customer" with the machete. A couple of .38 rounds into a revolver wouldn't take long to do.

Fluffy Cat

27th July 2006, 22:45

Hell, the police cant arrest this man as they have not spoken to the rest of his family. They need to talk to them first for a couple of months then see what happens.
He forgot to shove the machete up this guys ass after he shot him, now that really pisses me off!.

ogr1

28th July 2006, 02:52

Lou Girardin

28th July 2006, 08:12

OK, who's betting the shooter will be charged, "so that the courts can decide".
Amazing self-control to only shoot him once. Maybe the clip only had one round in it.
I bet machete mans defence will be, "I saw some overgrown weeds and I only went in to see if they wanted them cut".

James Deuce

28th July 2006, 08:17

He won't only be charged Lou, he'll be convicted and the shooter and his Dad will lose their license to trade weapons, and a taxpaying export business will be ruined.

James Deuce

28th July 2006, 08:23

I doubt a jury would convict someone on this matter but the Police will probably have to charge him.

I'd like to think that was the case. Most juries are there for the free biscuits and a couple of days off work.

frogfeaturesFZR

28th July 2006, 08:27

Colapop

28th July 2006, 08:46

I'd like to think that was the case. Most juries are there for the free biscuits and a couple of days off work.
You get free biscuits!!?? And I've been avoiding jury service all these years - now I want to serve the judiciary.

And yes my 4k post is a smart arsed comment - you're surprised....?

Str8 Jacket

28th July 2006, 08:52

You get free biscuits!!?? And I've been avoiding jury service all these years - now I want to serve the judiciary.

And yes my 4k post is a smart arsed comment - you're surprised....?

hmmpf, im not "allowed" to be on jury duty because of my job. I dont think that I would want to be on the panel if this case makes it to court though...

Drunken Monkey

28th July 2006, 09:41

Just think, this could have been the alterative if he didn't shoot the machete wielder:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3746022a10,00.html

The Pastor

28th July 2006, 09:57

Ummm it is a gun shop you'd be kinda pissed if you went in there and they didn't know how to use a gun...

Genius, I said the guy trying to rob the store... you hear alot more of people getting stabbed than shot in an agrivated robbery.

GR81

28th July 2006, 10:37

2 words...

natural selection!

Finn

28th July 2006, 10:51

This just demonstrates the imbalance of our justice system. All the focus and talk so far has been on the guy who shot the scum bag. While I agree there has to be an investigation, this just reeks of bleeding heart bullshit.

Grow some balls NZ. The scary thing is a trial by jury for manslaughter. A friend of a friend owned a small lift service company. He signed a couple of contracts with big customers. Both screwed him over. He appointed a liquidator to wind up the company and all was going well. He got a personal contract in Aus so went over there. While he was there the liquidator had cut off the phones. An old customer (not under contract) tried to call but obviously couldn't get through. They found a card in the life shaft for an electrician that was contracted to this guys company. They rang him and pressured him to come and have a look. He did and was subsequently crushed by the lift and died. This guy was charged with manslaughter. The first trial was a miss-trial as there was this maori guy on the jury who was racist. Everybody else wanted a not guilty verdict. The next trial found him guilty. He lost his business, his wife and his house. Basically everything. He is now sick.

Good one NZ. it certainly doesn't pay to be a hard working, white male in this country.

Paul in NZ

28th July 2006, 11:11

it certainly doesn't pay to be a hard working, white male in this country.

Thats why I don't work hard

oldrider

28th July 2006, 11:20

I'd like to think that was the case. Most juries are there for the free biscuits and a couple of days off work.
Most jurors don't work, the are made up of the layabouts and beneficiaries that can easily be gathered.
They don't interrupt the few workers who are supporting them with taxation, god forbid that! :nono:

Indiana_Jones

28th July 2006, 11:25

All this will do is give more ammo for the anti-gun lobbyist, God I hate those pircks

-Indy

Maverick

28th July 2006, 11:26

Lock, stock and 2 smoking barrels. :innocent:

I thought it was from Snatch actually.. ?

Finn

28th July 2006, 11:37

Thats why I don't work hard

That's very sad but understandable in NZ.

frogfeaturesFZR

28th July 2006, 11:40

I thought it was from Snatch actually.. ?
Vinnie Jones said it, But I think the movie was Lock, Stock etc

sAsLEX

28th July 2006, 11:47

Hmmm... Are you saying verbal or other warnings should have sufficed first?

As in.. "Stop stabbing me in the chest or I will be forced to shoot you..."

"Stop or i will shoot"

dumb ass doesnt stop, draw weapon and dont stop firing until he stops, simple

sAsLEX

28th July 2006, 11:53

Most jurors don't work, the are made up of the layabouts and beneficiaries that can easily be gathered.
They don't interrupt the few workers who are supporting them with taxation, god forbid that! :nono:

lol I have to take leave to attend jury service, but I can apply to get my leave returned if I return the money given for jury service, for queen and country sir!

ghost

28th July 2006, 11:55

"Important Notice:"

"Machette's R Us will not have a door to door salesman available to call on your premisis in Penrose for the next two months.

We hope this does cause inconvienance to any of our customers"

Shop owner:first:

retard with Machette:finger:

Whynot

28th July 2006, 12:00

Good one NZ. it certainly doesn't pay to be a hard working, white male in this country.

and everyone wonders why they all leave the country ...

The_Dover

28th July 2006, 12:14

Vinnie Jones said it, But I think the movie was Lock, Stock etc

No, it was Bullet Tooth Tony in Snatch.

Just before he killed Boris the Bulletdodger, "cos he dodges bullets Avi!"

"Drop de gun, fat boy!"

Motu

28th July 2006, 12:46

and everyone wonders why they all leave the country ...

No,they all talk about leaving the country but never do...it's better to moan than actualy do something.

Lou Girardin

28th July 2006, 12:52

The only problem I can see the shop assistant having will be if they kept a loaded gun under the counter...from what I know they are meant to keep the ammo separate from the gun?

He did. The gun was in his hand, the bullet was in the bad guy.

Maverick

28th July 2006, 13:57

No, it was Bullet Tooth Tony in Snatch.

Just before he killed Boris the Bulletdodger, "cos he dodges bullets Avi!"

"Drop de gun, fat boy!"

I thought so... "And the fact that your guns say replica and mine says Desert Eagle .50 should participate your balls into shrinking along with your presence"

I liked that movie, heh

Patrick

28th July 2006, 14:27

"Stop or i will shoot"

dumb ass doesnt stop, draw weapon and dont stop firing until he stops, simple

'BANG... Stop or I will shoot" is SO much more safer!!

sAsLEX

28th July 2006, 14:54

'BANG... Stop or I will shoot" is SO much more safer!!

Illegal though (in some ROE), dont take long to yell something.

And I am sure you are trained to exhaust all other possible avenues before using lethal force.

Patrick

28th July 2006, 15:02

Illegal though (in some ROE), dont take long to yell something.

And I am sure you are trained to exhaust all other possible avenues before using lethal force.

Sheesh... some take all the fun away... rules, rules, rules... bah humbug...

Patrick

28th July 2006, 15:03

ROE

Huh? 10 characters...

Finn

28th July 2006, 15:05

"Drop de gun, fat boy!"

IL4 was in Snatch?

sAsLEX

28th July 2006, 15:05

Huh? 10 characters...

Rules of Engagement

Patrick

28th July 2006, 15:08

Rules of Engagement
:drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup: so many, hard to keep up sometimes.

sAsLEX

28th July 2006, 15:15

so many :drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup:

Seems to be a common theme in the Naki Police Force.......

Patrick

28th July 2006, 16:03

Seems to be a common theme in the Naki .......

And on the Shore... those teen parties...:nya:

WRT

28th July 2006, 16:37

Souvenir T-Shirts available here! We've slashed the prices so get in quick - they'll be gone like a shot.

Finn

28th July 2006, 16:47

No,they all talk about leaving the country but never do...it's better to moan than actualy do something.

It must be pretty dark up your arse Motu. Like the majority of Kiwi's, you've mastered the art of denial.

Swoop

28th July 2006, 17:48

You get free biscuits!!?? And I've been avoiding jury service all these years - now I want to serve the judiciary.
Take my place on a jury if you want. I get called up every 2 years, and since my employer deems it a "part of the service to the community" they will not write a letter to get me out of it.

My new stance on the legal system has been brought on by the attitude of the police department and their taxation measures at the cost of real law enforcement and protecting and serving the public.
ALL juries that I get on will in future be seeing me voting against the prosecution and in favour of the accused - with FULL costs and expenses awarded to that person. Fuck em.

Patrick

28th July 2006, 20:13

My new stance on the legal system has been brought on by the attitude of the police department and their taxation measures at the cost of real law enforcement and protecting and serving the public.
ALL juries that I get on will in future be seeing me voting against the prosecution and in favour of the accused - with FULL costs and expenses awarded to that person. Fuck em.

So you support the KAHUI clan then... You got a ticket?.... Diddums... harden up. Let kiddie killers go coz you got a ticket? That IS what you just said really, isn't it?????:niceone:

Gunner

28th July 2006, 21:28

Think of what would of happened if he hadnt shot him, the guy might of killed or seriosly injured the shop owners and then would of had a large range of guns to go on a shooting spree.

I would of shot him and im sure 99% of people put in that situation would aswell.

roogazza

28th July 2006, 21:40

An earlier post mentioned " Darwin " and I couldn't help but remember that scene in 2001 Space Odyssey where they picked up bones !!!! This one picked a machete !!!!!!!!!!

Hope it turns out ok for the shooter !! G. ps. Too subtle ?

oldrider

28th July 2006, 22:47

lol I have to take leave to attend jury service, but I can apply to get my leave returned if I return the money given for jury service, for queen and country sir!
I suppose I have to take that all back now! :yes: ..... :innocent: Sorry sAsLEX :sick:

Shadows

29th July 2006, 00:07

The whole thing stinks. I feel for the shop owner.

He had a difficult choice to make very quickly.
Wear a machete in the neck or shoot the cunt.
Either way one of three possible outcomes could come about.
Slashed and possibly killed with a machete, a possible manslaughter charge for shooting the guy, a possible murder charge for shooting the guy and killing him.
He chose the former option, so instead of getting fucked up by some scumbag he'll probably be charged and end up losing $60K - $70K on his defense. Guilty or innocent, slashed up or not, his life has been fucked up by some low life piece of shit in an instant.
Thats really unfair, all the dude did was get up in the morning, go to work, and stand at the counter. The guy is innocent but will end up paying some way or another regardless.
It will be the choice of one prosecuting police officer that will determine if the poor dude's life gets all fucked up. Thats not fucking on either. If the decision is made that it goes to court then damage will be done there and then.

I reckon in cases like this there should be a public opinion poll via text message or something to determine whether or not the guy has a case to answer. Of course all the facts would need to be made public for in informed decision to be made. Then at least the decision to prosecute or not would be made democratically and not by one person with fuck knows what kinds of political or bureaucratic pressures on him to lay charges.

He should have shot him in the fucking head, at least then all this shit he is about to go through might seem a little more worthwhile.

spudchucka

29th July 2006, 07:28

do they get trained to fire a warning shot? spud, scum?
The police? No. The problem with warning shots is that there is a round fired randomly in a direction that you can't guarantee it won't result in an injury to a human or damage to property. If you have someone intent on hacking your head off with a machette the last thing you are going to do is take your eyes off him to ensure that the warning shot is fired in a safe direction.

spudchucka

29th July 2006, 07:50

spudchucka

29th July 2006, 08:01

When I was at college i heard of a case which occured twenty years ago, i think it was in the Wellington distict, where a similar instance happened. The Defendant shot a male who was committing a home invasion style burglary at his house. He was found not guilty as at the time his defence stated he was working on his rifle and that was the closest thing he had to himself to defend himself.
There's another one where an elderly guy noticed that his neighbours house was being burgaled. He knew that his neighbours were away and saw lights on and a person was moving about inside.

He was a gun collector so he armed himself and went to investigate. When he got to the the address the burglar was just exiting the property. The burglar had a video tape in his hand and he hit the old guy on the head with it and knocked him to the ground.

It was dark, the old guy couldn't see what the burglar had hit him with but he was in fear of his life so he fired his weapon and killed the burglar.

The old guy wasn't charged with murder or manslaughter as it was written off as self defence but he did face several firearms charges and was convicted of those.

I'd say that this case may have a similar ending. If the shop guy is charged with murder, manslaughter, wounding, assault with a weapon etc etc, I'd doubt that any jury would convict him. However it would be very hard to acquit him of the inevitable firearms charges.

spudchucka

29th July 2006, 08:04

Trouble is it will cost him heaps to defend the charge in court, common sense says no charges should be laid. Yes I know common sense is obsolete now- but maybe some one in prosecutions will show some spine:nono:
There will be some QC out there who will volunteer their services for free in order to win what will inevitably become a case that invokes huge public interest.

spudchucka

29th July 2006, 08:10

My new stance on the legal system has been brought on by the attitude of the police department and their taxation measures at the cost of real law enforcement and protecting and serving the public.
ALL juries that I get on will in future be seeing me voting against the prosecution and in favour of the accused - with FULL costs and expenses awarded to that person. Fuck em.
Thats really intelligent. let the murderers and rapists go because the police write tickets for traffic offences.

I don't think you ever have to worry about getting on a jury.

WINJA

29th July 2006, 10:49

sAsLEX

29th July 2006, 11:30

However it would be very hard to acquit him of the inevitable firearms charges.

What charges are inevitable? From what I know of most gun store I have been in to it would not of been hard to pick up a weapon turn a few steps to the ammo locker and lock and load.

I mean are we unable to defend ourselves with deadly force in this country or not? or is it ok to kill them just you get charged for firearms charges, I mean a firearms charge would fuck your chances of lving the rest of your life free to visit other countries all because some smacktard thought it was wise to choose his target as a gun store?

sAsLEX

29th July 2006, 11:32

if he does get charged they better reopen the steven wallace case and charge and convict that pig cause he coulda used the car as a weapon which woulda been more reasonable use of force against a golf club , not that i think it was wrong shooting steven wallace but id hate to see a double standard , just cause your a pig it dont mean you should be exempt from the same reasonable force law

No that dumb cut deserved what he got! He couldnt use the car anymore as the windscreen had been smashed in.

Again I must issue this statement: Darwin was on to a few good ideas.

The loss of some people is better for our race so we shouldnt sit around worrying about the lower end of the gene pool killing themselves off by doing stupid shit.

spudchucka

29th July 2006, 12:49

What charges are inevitable?
Without knowing all the circumstances of the incident I'm not going to second guess the investigation by suggesting here what he might or might not be charged with. Have a look through the Arms Act 1983 and see what you think.

Patrick

29th July 2006, 13:44

if he does get charged they better reopen the steven wallace case and charge and convict that pig cause he coulda used the car as a weapon which woulda been more reasonable use of force against a golf club , not that i think it was wrong shooting steven wallace but id hate to see a double standard , just cause your a pig it dont mean you should be exempt from the same reasonable force law

Ummm.... he didn't have a car... he had a gun...

I take you haven't seen a caved in skull after it was hit with a golf club? I have..... had to pick uip the pieces of brain that squirted out... and in case you were wondering, no, he didn't survive

And he was charged (although not by the Police)... and was found not guilty... Can't charge him again now, can ya.

Motu

29th July 2006, 14:19

you've mastered the art of denial.

Did I twitch one of your strings my predictable puppet? - you should really get a life of your own and not wait for me to tell you when to speak.

Swoop

29th July 2006, 15:10

So you support the KAHUI clan then... You got a ticket?.... Diddums... harden up. Let kiddie killers go coz you got a ticket? That IS what you just said really, isn't it?????:niceone:
What ticket?

However:
100% correct.
Go to the top of the class... and jump off.

Swoop

29th July 2006, 15:13

lol thats just great mate, fuck the victim over :doh:
No, the "system" does that quite well enough.

Swoop

29th July 2006, 15:16

Thats really intelligent. let the murderers and rapists go because the police write tickets for traffic offences.

I don't think you ever have to worry about getting on a jury.
Trust me, I have been on a jury before. The decision was on the "facts presented" but unfortunately the cops didn't know how to read the accused their rights and that simple fuck up could have made a HEAP of difference.

Swoop

29th July 2006, 15:18

With a hand gun? Only if you are a complete f&%king idiot!
Good to see that your training is up (down?) to standard...

WINJA

29th July 2006, 16:24

Ummm.... he didn't have a car... he had a gun...

I take you haven't seen a caved in skull after it was hit with a golf club? I have..... had to pick uip the pieces of brain that squirted out... and in case you were wondering, no, he didn't survive

And he was charged (although not by the Police)... and was found not guilty... Can't charge him again now, can ya.
THE PIG HAD A CAR TO START WITH I REMEMBER THE PICS OF THE SMASHED IN WINDOW , THE PIG COULDA USED THE CAR TO BOWL STEVEN IT WOULDVE DONE LESS DAMAGE THAN THE GUN, I DONT THINK THERES MUCH DIF BETWEEN A MACHETE AND GOLF CLUB REALLY ,BOTH RESPONSES WITH FIREARMS WERE ACCEPTABLE ID JUST HATE TO SEE THE CIVVY CHARGED BY THE PIGS WHEN ABBOT WASNT, DONT THINK IM HAVING A DIG AT ABBOT AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED IF YOU GO ROUND SMASHING WINDOWS AND THREATENING A PIG WELL TOUGH SHIT WHEN YOU GET SHOT

sAsLEX

29th July 2006, 16:33

THE PIG HAD A CAR TO START WITH I REMEMBER THE PICS OF THE SMASHED IN WINDOW , THE PIG COULDA USED THE CAR TO BOWL STEVEN IT WOULDVE DONE LESS DAMAGE THAN THE GUN, I DONT THINK THERES MUCH DIF BETWEEN A MACHETE AND GOLF CLUB REALLY ,BOTH RESPONSES WITH FIREARMS WERE ACCEPTABLE ID JUST HATE TO SEE THE CIVVY CHARGED BY THE PIGS WHEN ABBOT WASNT, DONT THINK IM HAVING A DIG AT ABBOT AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED IF YOU GO ROUND SMASHING WINDOWS AND THREATENING A PIG WELL TOUGH SHIT WHEN YOU GET SHOT

He did go to court and through the process though didnt he (Abbot?)?

The civvy in question here should be given a hand shake and a pat on the back and sent on his way.

WINJA

29th July 2006, 16:43

He did go to court and through the process though didnt he (Abbot?)?

The civvy in question here should be given a hand shake and a pat on the back and sent on his way.
FAMILY MEMBERS ON THE BONES OF THERE ARSE COULD NOT GET A LAWYER GOOD ENOUGH TO MOUNT A GOOD CASE LIKE THE PIGS COULD, THE POINT IS THE POLICE DIDNT CHARGE HIM AND I HOPE THEY DONT CHARGE THE GUNSHOP EMPLOYEE OTHERWISE THAT WOULD BE A DOUBLE STANDARD

Sniper

29th July 2006, 16:54

FAMILY MEMBERS ON THE BONES OF THERE ARSE COULD NOT GET A LAWYER GOOD ENOUGH TO MOUNT A GOOD CASE LIKE THE PIGS COULD, THE POINT IS THE POLICE DIDNT CHARGE HIM AND I HOPE THEY DONT CHARGE THE GUNSHOP EMPLOYEE OTHERWISE THAT WOULD BE A DOUBLE STANDARD

Re-fucken-diculous if they did. Gone will be the days of self-defense, quick, get the kiddies out of karate school and into grovelling school.

Said it once and will say it again. If some fuckwit comes into my house and threatens me or my family then he if fair game. Fuck the politicians that say otherwise.

Im sure its been said, but the guy fired one shot into the idiots stomach. Non-fatal wound and then he fucked off. He didnt unload another couple of rounds into him, only thing he did wrong was he didnt aim for the head.

sAsLEX

29th July 2006, 17:02

only thing he did wrong was he didnt aim for the head.

or the balls, stop the guy breeding and spreading what is obviousl defective stock

98tls

29th July 2006, 17:03

Thats really intelligent. let the murderers and rapists go because the police write tickets for traffic offences.

I don't think you ever have to worry about getting on a jury. :yes: ...........constantly hear on this website guys moaning about cops writing tickets blah blah blah..sure its a bastard when you get one but generally you dont get them for nothing,take all the cops off the roads and see how much fun that is...motorcyclists would have a very short life expectancy i would imagine.

sAsLEX

29th July 2006, 17:18

...motorcyclists would have a very short life expectancy i would imagine.

You mean they actually keep bad drivers off the road?

I mean on my commutes I often have people curteously indictaing their intentions and doing head checks etc NOT!

I mean I have nearly been taken out by immigrant drivers on Symonds street a fair few times, this is after one of them managed to kill a fellow student,engineer and motorcylist, but do you ever see cops on that road ...... NO.

And writing a ticket does not improve road behaviour , improves revenue thats about it.

98tls

29th July 2006, 17:22

sure...but things would be worse if they were not on the roads.

MattRSK

29th July 2006, 17:23

When I get a ticket, it is usually deserved.

Patrick

29th July 2006, 17:24

THE PIG HAD A CAR TO START WITH I REMEMBER THE PICS OF THE SMASHED IN WINDOW , THE PIG COULDA USED THE CAR TO BOWL STEVEN IT WOULDVE DONE LESS DAMAGE THAN THE GUN, I DONT THINK THERES MUCH DIF BETWEEN A MACHETE AND GOLF CLUB REALLY ,BOTH RESPONSES WITH FIREARMS WERE ACCEPTABLE ID JUST HATE TO SEE THE CIVVY CHARGED BY THE PIGS WHEN ABBOT WASNT, DONT THINK IM HAVING A DIG AT ABBOT AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED IF YOU GO ROUND SMASHING WINDOWS AND THREATENING A PIG WELL TOUGH SHIT WHEN YOU GET SHOT
Close... the Police woman had a car...it was her windscreen that was smashed... he didn't, drove to the station in his own private car and walked around into the conflict... but I agree totally with the rest of what you say tho. I would not arrest the shop owner, from what I have heard in the media, either.

Patrick

29th July 2006, 17:27

FAMILY MEMBERS ON THE BONES OF THERE ARSE COULD NOT GET A LAWYER GOOD ENOUGH TO MOUNT A GOOD CASE LIKE THE PIGS COULD, THE POINT IS THE POLICE DIDNT CHARGE HIM AND I HOPE THEY DONT CHARGE THE GUNSHOP EMPLOYEE OTHERWISE THAT WOULD BE A DOUBLE STANDARD

There was nothing wrong with their lawyer, I know him, but he was flogging a dead horse, (pardon the pun). There was no case to answer, always was self defense, just like the gun shop owner at this point in time, "if you believe what you hear in the media."

Patrick

29th July 2006, 17:32

What ticket?

However:
100% correct.
Go to the top of the class... and jump off.

So no ticket... and your gripe is then? I've had tickets, never bitched and moaned about any of em.

BUt you're a 100% KAHUI supporter..., you heard it here, as above. He supports the killer and the family that hides him. What a :tugger:

Patrick

29th July 2006, 17:58

No, the "system" does that quite well enough.

Oh, I get it now... you're TRYING to be funny... or retarded (but maybe that comes naturally)...

Victims are dead/raped, whatever, we lock up the murderer/rapist, but because of some gripe about a ticket, that YOU haven't even had (????) YOU would let them off. Have I still got it right? Surely I have it wrong. No one can be that dumb:wait: .... maybe....:wait:

jrandom

29th July 2006, 18:56

FWIW, I'll chuck in a 'me too' with regards to Spud's opinion on the legal niceties. Clear-cut case of justifiable self-defense, so assault charges won't stick, but woe betide the gunshop owner if he broke any rules about storing weapons and ammunition.

Bear in mind that keeping magazines loaded is a no-no. As far as I recall, SAI don't keep revolvers under the glass counter, just automatic pistols (I should know, with the time I've spent drooling over that counter) so we're talking about slapping in a pre-loaded mag here, not feeding loose rounds into a revolver. Woopsy. (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone?)

I called a friend who's a bit of a gun nut and has known the SAI guys in question for quite some time as soon as I heard the story. His comment was that he's not surprised, as they've been saying for years how they'll do exactly that, should such a situation ever arise. Might make it difficult to play the "we are but 'umble storekeepers, yer 'onour" card.

As I've stated before, I think that NZ's firearms laws are about the best in the world vis-a-vis keeping a good balance between making shooting an accessible sport and limiting access to weapons to those who will use them responsibly. I'll be watching the outcome of this case with interest.

spudchucka

30th July 2006, 09:36

Good to see that your training is up (down?) to standard...
You are a blow hard!

Why would I bother to train with a Glock at 70 meteres when I have a .223 Bushmaster slung over my shoulder?

If I had to shoot at someone from 70 metres it would be because they are firing at me and I'm not going to pull my head out from behind cover for the length of time that it would take to make a deliberate aim shot with a Glock at that distance.

Anybody with a background in law enforcement will tell you that the majority of police shhotings are in reactive situations inside 5 metres. Theres no point training to shoot a pistol over a distance of 70 or even 50 metres, if the offender is that far away they probably aren't a threat to you unless they are shooting at you, in which case you will be seeking cover, cordoning, containing and calling the big boys with the big guns.

spudchucka

30th July 2006, 09:39

:yes: ...........constantly hear on this website guys moaning about cops writing tickets blah blah blah..sure its a bastard when you get one but generally you dont get them for nothing,take all the cops off the roads and see how much fun that is...motorcyclists would have a very short life expectancy i would imagine.
Exactly!:first:

spudchucka

30th July 2006, 09:40

And writing a ticket does not improve road behaviour , improves revenue thats about it.
And warning them constantly improves driver behaviour how?

Personally I'd be in favour of knee-capping bad drivers but I can't see that ever being legislated.

Ixion

30th July 2006, 10:52

,,
In saying that reparation ordered by the courts is often not paid by the offender and sentances given dont really represent the severtity of the case in a lot of instances.

,,.

And often not ordered by the court. Crime victims don't get treated well by the system, but that is the fault of the courts, not the police (in general, anyway)

sAsLEX

30th July 2006, 14:10

And warning them constantly improves driver behaviour how?

Personally I'd be in favour of knee-capping bad drivers but I can't see that ever being legislated.

Yup thats about the same effectivness as ticketing to most!

Where the changes need to made is licensing, not policing, stop the bad drivers before they get on to the road not once there there. Prevention is always better than curing a problem.

spudchucka

30th July 2006, 16:07

Yup thats about the same effectivness as ticketing to most!

Where the changes need to made is licensing, not policing, stop the bad drivers before they get on to the road not once there there. Prevention is always better than curing a problem.
Can't argue with that.

MattRSK

30th July 2006, 16:35

Maybe we should change the title of this thread to, "I'm not mature enough to accept the consequences of my actions". :nya:

Patrick

30th July 2006, 18:21

Maybe we should change the title of this thread to, "I'm not mature enough to accept the consequences of my actions". :nya:

:killingme :rofl: Nice one Matt.... gotta share the bling around!

Patrick

30th July 2006, 18:25

Swoops gone quiet... must have realised how pathetic he sounded...

Swoop

31st July 2006, 09:13

What was the details on this case?
A murder caused by stabbing.

Edit for above post: Swoop has been giving birth to politicians all weekend - both ends...
There's nothing like nice friendly porcelain to hug...

Finn

31st July 2006, 09:20

The father raised a good point in the Herald this morning. He wants to know why the mongrel hasn't been charged yet. There is enough evidence to show that he intended to kill the people in the store and so far all the attention has been on the shooter.

If this doesn't show how our system believes that offenders are the real victims then what does?

Swoop

31st July 2006, 09:22

Why would I bother to train with a Glock at 70 meteres when I have a .223 Bushmaster slung over my shoulder?

If I had to shoot at someone from 70 metres it would be because they are firing at me and I'm not going to pull my head out from behind cover for the length of time that it would take to make a deliberate aim shot with a Glock at that distance.
So you also wouldn't train to use the .223 at 1-2metres either?

Good to know that you get the full use out of all your equipment.
It is possible you will only have the pistol on/with you so why not learn to use it better?
If the situation calls for the .223 then shit has already gone down...

Bend-it

31st July 2006, 10:11

You're all missiing the point here!! There machate wielder is a good mate of the shooter!!

Machete Man: I'll come in waving this machete around
Shooter: Yeah yeah, and I promise to shoot you in your tummy
MM: Yeah, ACC will pay 'coz it was an accident I suffered and I won't get charged 'coz of the bleeding hearts in government
Shooter: And I'll be let off on self-defence

All this is a ploy to create interest in the machete and pistol, which will soon be "lost" from the courts locker and find themselves on trademe!!

scumdog

31st July 2006, 10:21

So you also wouldn't train to use the .223 at 1-2metres either?

Good to know that you get the full use out of all your equipment.
It is possible you will only have the pistol on/with you so why not learn to use it better?
If the situation calls for the .223 then shit has already gone down...

Nice troll!

You use what you have at the time in the best way you can.
Takes 3 shots with Glock to equal the effect of one shot with Bushmaster.

The Glocks effective range is about the distance you could throw it.
Not many Police are highly trained marksmen and a lot don't even own a firearm of any sort, hence it is not easy for most to hit somebody running towards them at 20 metres - let alone further away, YOU try drawing/firing at a moving target at 20 metres.
Mind you having 17 shots MAY help you hit the insane machete wielder running towars you at the time - and with a bit of luck you won't send any stray rounds into houses/cars/little kids in the background. (insane people rarely think of what's in the background behind them when they charge).

My 2cents.

frogfeaturesFZR

31st July 2006, 10:33

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 10:37

The old guy wasn't charged with murder or manslaughter as it was written off as self defence but he did face several firearms charges and was convicted of those.

Which achieved what exactly?
The old 'prosecute at all costs' mentality.

And what is the reason for the delay anyway. Are the investigators going over the gun shop procedures with a fine tooth comb to see if they can nail them with sonething?

scumdog

31st July 2006, 10:37

Scummy, off the subject for a moment, do the cops use factory ammo or is it loaded especially for them ? Reason I ask is 'down-loaded' ammo travels only 1/2 the distance of full loads and has less chance of passing through the target.

Factory hollow-point ammo, more knock-down power/ less penetration.
Reduced loads are likely to (a) not have enough knock-down power and (b) likely not to cycle the actions of the semi-autos they're used in.

Swoop

31st July 2006, 10:39

Nice troll!

You use what you have at the time in the best way you can.
Takes 3 shots with Glock to equal the effect of one shot with Bushmaster.

The Glocks effective range is about the distance you could throw it.
Not many Police are highly trained marksmen and a lot don't even own a firearm of any sort, hence it is not easy for most to hit somebody running towards them at 20 metres - let alone further away, YOU try drawing/firing at a moving target at 20 metres.
Mind you having 17 shots MAY help you hit the insane machete wielder running towars you at the time - and with a bit of luck you won't send any stray rounds into houses/cars/little kids in the background. (insane people rarely think of what's in the background behind them when they charge).

My 2cents.
Good points!

I have appointed myself a 9/10 for this one. Most of the cops have bitten REALLY well...:blip:

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 10:39

:ytake all the cops off the roads and see how much fun that is...motorcyclists would have a very short life expectancy i would imagine.

I don't rely on cops to keep me safe.

scumdog

31st July 2006, 10:44

I don't rely on cops to keep me safe.

Nor do I!!

terbang

31st July 2006, 10:46

Its a Hazard of the job. If you are a robber that wields a machete and robs shops then you need to be aware of some possible hazards of the job, especially if you choose to rob a gun shop. I guess a shop owner who has a gun when you attempt to rob him, like the mountain goat up there in the clouds in my profession, there are risks to the job.

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 11:07

So you also wouldn't train to use the .223 at 1-2metres either?

Good to know that you get the full use out of all your equipment.
It is possible you will only have the pistol on/with you so why not learn to use it better?
If the situation calls for the .223 then shit has already gone down...
We do train to use a .223 in reactive shooting from close range. I thought an expert like you would have known that?

If I go to an incident requiring the use of firearms then I will either have both weapons with me or I will have a partner at my side who is carrying the alternative weapon.

From a police point of view there isn't any point training to shoot a glock over 70 metres, you might as well throw rotten eggs at the offender. If we wanted to go to the Olympic games and win gold medals then by all means practice shooting pistols at long range but from a law enforcement perspective it has absolutely no merits.

I suggest you drop the topic before you make an even bigger arse of yourself.

sAsLEX

31st July 2006, 11:14

Factory hollow-point ammo, more knock-down power/ less penetration.
Reduced loads are likely to (a) not have enough knock-down power and (b) likely not to cycle the actions of the semi-autos they're used in.

Interesting...... pretty sure we only use FMJ but I suppose we do have that little Geneva Convention to abide by....thought the cops would too??

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 11:16

Which achieved what exactly?Don't know & don't care really. Why do we charge anybody with an offence? Convicting a murderer isn't going to make the victim unmurdered, convicting a dangerous driver isn't going to suddenly make them a safe road user, charging the guy that chopped down that protected tree isn't going to make it grow back.

You tell me why we have statutes that make certain acts or omissions offences? Tell me why we charge offenders if in reality it achieves nothing?

And what is the reason for the delay anyway. Are the investigators going over the gun shop procedures with a fine tooth comb to see if they can nail them with sonething?Don't know, its not my investigation. Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye? And going by your first question to me, whats it going to achieve by charging the guy anyway?

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 11:22

Interesting...... pretty sure we only use FMJ but I suppose we do have that little Geneva Convention to abide by....thought the cops would too??
It doesn't apply to Law Enforcement.

Finn

31st July 2006, 12:01

sAsLEX

31st July 2006, 12:06

Big deal, the mongrel is charged with assualt and "intent" to rob. So he'll be roaming the streets again shortly. I wonder when he'll next be in the herald?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10393811

Shouldnt running at someone with a Machete be attempted murder? Or some charge with threatening someone with a weapon at least

Finn

31st July 2006, 12:16

Shouldnt running at someone with a Machete be attempted murder? Or some charge with threatening someone with a weapon at least

Yeah but the problem is that there was only one bed left in prison and they thought it was more important to put that guy away that put an axe through Helen Clarks office window. Clearly he was not a Labour supporter.

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 12:28

Shouldnt running at someone with a Machete be attempted murder? Or some charge with threatening someone with a weapon at least
It mostly comes down to the persons intent, did they intend to murder the other person or did they intend to scare the shit out of them and rob them?

Have a read through the crimes act and understand the ingredients of the offences before you decide what the appropriate charges should be. The cops need to look at the facts and then find the appropriate charge to fit the offence.

Or would you prefer it if the cops just decided on a charge that they wanted and then "found" the required evidence to prove that charge?

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 12:35

Or would you prefer it if the cops just decided on a charge that they wanted and then "found" the required evidence to prove that charge?

The pigs would never pull a dirty trick like that surely?

The fine upstanding members of the community that they are......

Swoop

31st July 2006, 12:41

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 13:04

How often do you shoot Spud?
Just training days, or do you hunt/target shoot as well?
Just interested.
I don't hold a firearms licence. In the past I have been into bow hunting but I've never been interested in hunting with a firearm.

Hunting and target shooting have very little relevance in a discussion on police operational shooting. In fact, many of the experienced hunters who join the police have considerable difficulties coming to terms with reactive shooting of hand guns. The newbies that get the hang of it the quickest are often either females or generally just first time firearms operators.

kickingzebra

31st July 2006, 13:06

Does not your police ID suffice as a fire arms license? I had been informed they did...
Curious, not feisty :)

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 13:07

Does not your police ID suffice as a fire arms license? I had been informed they did...
Curious, not feisty :)
No. To own a firearm we still need to hold a NZ firearms licence.

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 15:39

Is that what you say when you loose an argument and open your mouth without thinking?
Just add him to the ever increasing list of half wits that unfortunately frequent this site.

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 15:41

Just add him to the ever increasing list of half wits that unfortunately frequent this site.

Yeah, we have a fair few pigs on here these days, don't we?

Swoop

31st July 2006, 15:46

when was this murder? he got off because he wasnt given his rights when in custody? Even if they were not given on the street they are given when in the watchhouse...and i dont know any detective who wouldnt give someone their rights before putting them on an interview.

Where did this happen? what time period?
He was read his rights after confessing THREE times to the murder. All this was inadmissable evidence in court.
He did not get off however.

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 16:10

Nice one brainsurgeon.

Yeah? Still, I'm overqualified for being a pig and I have morals. Ok, I don'thave morals but I'm definitely overqualified.

Macktheknife

31st July 2006, 16:13

The Glocks effective range is about the distance you could throw it.
Ah I see the problem you are having now! The police have become so underfunded they cannot afford ammo any more! It all makes sense now. lol
The glock is my personal favourite sidearm for working environments. I would go through 200-300 rounds per month on the range and was required to do a combat shoot every 3 months minimum. In my team, every person could put 17 rounds inside a 5 inch spread at 15m, this was not considered good, just good enough.
I have found that most police agencies around the world require the officers to qualify once or twice per year, with a much lower level of proficiency than this, I assume the same is true in NZ.
My only concern is that the officers should be trained sufficiently well that when required to use their weapon they do so safely and competently. Competent in this case is to hit what they are aiming for consistently, safely is to not hit anything they are not aiming at.
Swoop, you have either taken a windup too far or you are talking out of your arse, possibly both. Either way, its time to stop.
Scumdog, you know you have the respect of most.

Finn

31st July 2006, 16:21

Actually the best weapon in NZ for stopping all the low life’s committing crime is to cut off their benefits. Even if we cut social welfare by 50%, we would have $30+ billion to play with. Even if a portion of this went back into policing, the cops would have more resources to work on preventive crime rather than working as glorified meter maids for the Government. We'd have to give the judges a kick up the arse too but you get my drift.

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 16:25

Don't know & don't care really. Why do we charge anybody with an offence? Convicting a murderer isn't going to make the victim unmurdered, convicting a dangerous driver isn't going to suddenly make them a safe road user, charging the guy that chopped down that protected tree isn't going to make it grow back.

You tell me why we have statutes that make certain acts or omissions offences? Tell me why we charge offenders if in reality it achieves nothing?

You are just being a tad silly now spud. You know I'm referring to cases where there is no need for punishment. But we have this mindset with our authoritarian classes that think every infraction must be punished.
The gentleman who shot the burglar did us a service, there is no need to go trawling for some 'chicken-shit' offence to nail him with. A warning would have been sufficient. And, apart form Philip Alpers, no one would have criticised the cops for doing so.

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 16:26

Scumdog, you know you have the respect of most.

Not me, I'm just being nice to him to get cheap lodging and drink his supplies.

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 16:28

Actually the best weapon in NZ for stopping all the low life’s committing crime is to cut off their benefits. .

So what do you think the ones who don't want to work will do?
Starve?
Or steal?

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 16:31

They get one chance at the job office.

Then they get shot. Or sent for an interview in a gun shop with their CV printed on a machete.

Finn

31st July 2006, 16:35

So what do you think the ones who don't want to work will do?
Starve?
Or steal?

With the extra policing and crime fighting capabilities, I guess they'd have to starve.

Take a look at what my buddy Mayor Rudy did in NY.

Pixie

31st July 2006, 16:35

sure...but things would be worse if they were not on the roads.
You really believe that,don't you? :gob:

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 16:50

You know I'm referring to cases where there is no need for punishment.
And you and I are suitably able to be the sole judge(s) of which offences require punishment?

Is that not the intended role of the courts?

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 16:53

With the extra policing and crime fighting capabilities,

:rofl: You think they'd resist the temptation to triple the number of HP cops?

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 16:54

Is that not the intended role of the courts?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

kickingzebra

31st July 2006, 16:54

we would have $30+ billion to play with.

I'm told the entire police budget is about a billion.
You got my vote finny fin finn

spudchucka

31st July 2006, 17:05

crock of shit.
Dover's area of expertise.

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 17:09

C'mon dyna, we all know that it was the thick kids at school that swarmed around the police recruitment stands, attracted by the hand cuffs and sirens.

Just look at your grammar, but it's ok. You don't need to be smart to write out tickets, they are like a multiple choice open book test.

The_Dover

31st July 2006, 17:09

Dover's area of expertise.

Don't joke about it spudchucka.

Sanitary drainage is indeed one of my areas of expertise.

Lou Girardin

31st July 2006, 17:18

And you and I are suitably able to be the sole judge(s) of which offences require punishment?

Is that not the intended role of the courts?

It would be if those aquitted were awarded full costs. As it is, people are ruined because some senior cop is too spineless to stand up and say the case should not go to court. (Unless the offender is a member of the Labour party, that is)

PS I'm able because I have some common sense. The common bit.

Patrick

31st July 2006, 17:27

Big deal, the mongrel is charged with assualt and "intent" to rob. So he'll be roaming the streets again shortly. I wonder when he'll next be in the herald?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10393811

Births Deaths and Marriages???... the middle one, one would hope...

Patrick

31st July 2006, 17:34

Don't joke about it spudchucka.

Sanitary drainage is indeed one of my areas of expertise.

Drainage or stirring?:nya:

scumdog

31st July 2006, 17:50

Not me, I'm just being nice to him to get cheap lodging and drink his supplies.

And vice-versa:nya:

At least you left my wife out of it!

Swoop

31st July 2006, 21:33

I quote you:

So now your saying it didnt make a heap of difference and he was convicted, you keep chopping and changing your story.

Are you making this up? When did this occur?
It would have made a whole heap of difference to the case and the jury had we known about this in court. The judge wisely made it inadmissable as evidence since the ecilops fucked up so badly. This decision was made in closed session with judge/prosecutor and defence council only. We only found out after coming to our verdict and the prosecutor walked out with us afterwards and told us we had done the right thing.
All clear now?

Swoop

31st July 2006, 21:59

We do train to use a .223 in reactive shooting from close range. I thought an expert like you would have known that?

If I go to an incident requiring the use of firearms then I will either have both weapons with me or I will have a partner at my side who is carrying the alternative weapon.

From a police point of view there isn't any point training to shoot a glock over 70 metres, you might as well throw rotten eggs at the offender. If we wanted to go to the Olympic games and win gold medals then by all means practice shooting pistols at long range but from a law enforcement perspective it has absolutely no merits.

I suggest you drop the topic before you make an even bigger arse of yourself.
I wonder where the police gat a bad rap from?
Here I am simply stating a few facts and you refuse to accept comments as the truth. Perhaps like some of your customers?
A couple more for you:
Some people shoot (specialised) handguns at targets out to 200 yards - and hit their target. Simple fact.
I cannot do that and I guess neither could most people. Simple fact.

As stated in another post, the instance when you have the .223 out of it's case is when the shit has gone down and everyone is in "oh fuck, what do we do now" mode.
The toy you have most handy - and carried in more cars than we would like to imagine our "unarmed" police force to be carrying, is the pistol.
Why not learn what it CAN do, rather than saying "it's only for short range stuff".
Try engaging your cranial cavity occasionally and think outside the box, otherwise you may end up in one because of your pre-conceived ideas.

scumdog

31st July 2006, 22:48

The toy you have most handy - and carried in more cars than we would like to imagine our "unarmed" police force to be carrying, is the pistol.
Why not learn what it CAN do, rather than saying "it's only for short range stuff".
Try engaging your cranial cavity occasionally and think outside the box, otherwise you may end up in one because of your pre-conceived ideas.

Think of it this way: the public expect us to be experts as drivers/shooter/fighters/negotiators/rescuers/ticket writers etc etc.

How much training on a regular basis do you expect us to do to achieve this?
And then when do you expect us to have time to do any 'normal' work?

And a 200 yard shot with a pistol in a calm environment with a known range with a large calibre pistol with expensive sights is one thing.

A 9mm Glock with basic fixed sights at unknown range in a heated uncertain environment with dubious lighting is another.

But surely you knew that already??:wait:

Swoop

31st July 2006, 22:53

What exactly was told to you?
PM sent.......

Swoop

31st July 2006, 23:03

...in a heated uncertain environment with dubious lighting is another.

But surely you knew that already??:wait:
I thought it was quite cold in the Southern Riviera this time of year???

Yes Scummy, I appreciate the environment that most contacts are made in. I bet very few are like those scenarios practiced on the range.:yes:

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 00:00

It would be if those aquitted were awarded full costs. As it is, people are ruined because some senior cop is too spineless to stand up and say the case should not go to court. (Unless the offender is a member of the Labour party, that is)

PS I'm able because I have some common sense. The common bit.
I'll agree with you on the awarding of costs bit.

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 00:20

I wonder where the police gat a bad rap from?
Here I am simply stating a few facts and you refuse to accept comments as the truth. Perhaps like some of your customers?All you've done is make a whole heap of broad meaningless statements based on assumption. I've told you what police train for and explained the reasons why they train that way. You appear to be too thick to be able to understand this.

A couple more for you:
Some people shoot (specialised) handguns at targets out to 200 yards - and hit their target. Simple fact.
I cannot do that and I guess neither could most people. Simple fact.
I'm sure there are people that shoot handguns over that distance but as I've already explained to you there is no practical reason why police would. If someone needed shooting from that distance then the cop wouldn't be doing it with a glock. Why waste training resources practicing something that you will never use.

As stated in another post, the instance when you have the .223 out of it's case is when the shit has gone down and everyone is in "oh fuck, what do we do now" mode.No, its not. You take a .223 whenever there may be a need for it and from a front line point of view a Bushmaster pointed at some dirtbag offender has a great deal more "fuck off" factor than a glock especially from only a few metres away.

The toy you have most handy - and carried in more cars than we would like to imagine our "unarmed" police force to be carrying, is the pistol.No, again. Some rural cars carry weapons and in urban areas the sergeants car will usually have a gun safe and it aint just pistols in their. If need be cops can meet at a safe location and arm themselves out of the Sgts car or otherwise they will go back to the station and arm themselves there. They have the choice of taking a pistol, a rifle or both and with the new rifle in circulation now most are chosing it as their preferred option.

Why not learn what it CAN do, rather than saying "it's only for short range stuff".I know what it can do, you squeeze the trigger, it goes bang and this little bit of lead comes out the pointy end. I've explained why police train to use the weapon over short distances, I'm not going to keep repeating myself just because you are too thick to understand.

Try engaging your cranial cavity occasionally and think outside the box, otherwise you may end up in one because of your pre-conceived ideas.Coming from you I can only piss myself laughing at that statement.

James Deuce

1st August 2006, 06:41

A couple more for you:
Some people shoot (specialised) handguns at targets out to 200 yards - and hit their target. Simple fact.
I cannot do that and I guess neither could most people. Simple fact.

Maybe a Sterling X-Caliber with the .50 barrel and chamber attached mate. That sounds like competition weapons on a range to me. Mass produced, unmodified handguns, particularly automatics, designed for use by the general public are more likely to scare people with the loud noise and the thought of a fat high speed slug travelling through the air than to hit their actual target.

bobsmith

1st August 2006, 08:05

Damn it. I feel like joining in and hurling insult at the pigs but can't think of anything to say at the moment.... too early in the morning, need coffee..................

Swoop

1st August 2006, 08:21

So no ticket... and your gripe is then? I've had tickets, never bitched and moaned about any of em.

BUt you're a 100% KAHUI supporter..., you heard it here, as above. He supports the killer and the family that hides him. What a :tugger:
Going back to my other thread within this thread...
I would like to apologise. But only for the fact that there are some thick buggers around here.
I can go and make a statement like that and the only people to resopnd here are the coppers. The rest of our community said nothing.
A strange similarity of when the police come out with the "speed kills" statement and attempt to target speed as the "golden bullet" to make roads safer. (Tui anyone?)

Only a small amount of people actually vocalised their displeasure (proportionally) with both comments.
We, as a biking community, are a small voice in the wilderness of political opinion and we ALL need to become far more prominent, otherwise we will be railroaded even more than what we are already seeing in the sham meetings to "gather public input".

Get with it people.

Lou Girardin

1st August 2006, 08:28

Think of it this way: the public expect us to be experts as drivers/shooter/fighters/negotiators/rescuers/ticket writers etc etc.

You got one right.

scumdog

1st August 2006, 08:31

You got one right.

And when we do excell in that one we get nothing but moans from the public:weird: :bleh:

Swoop

1st August 2006, 08:37

Damn it. I feel like joining in and hurling insult at the pigs but can't think of anything to say at the moment.... too early in the morning, need coffee..................
You might be wasting your breath there... They can only spout the party line, or recite what they have been brainwashed with.
Try and get the north island ones thinking outside that area of concept and they just go into "ticket writing mode" (e.g. shuts off all audible hearing of truth, logic or common sense or reason and gets the pen moving).

The riviera of the south seems a bit more sensible though...:blip:

scumdog

1st August 2006, 08:43

You might be wasting your breath there... They can only spout the party line, or recite what they have been brainwashed with.
Try and get the north island ones thinking outside that area of concept and they just go into "ticket writing mode" (e.g. shuts off all audible hearing of truth, logic or common sense or reason and gets the pen moving).

The riviera of the south seems a bit more sensible though...:blip:

Yeah well I'm a ferkin sight older than most - but my bosses won't agree with you.

(And look out if I haven't had my morning caffienne fix and you go past me anything over ***kph - you'll get a nasty ticking off and a reminder how the road time gained by speeding has now been lost!)

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 08:43

You might be wasting your breath there... They can only spout the party line, or recite what they have been brainwashed with.
Try and get the north island ones thinking outside that area of concept and they just go into "ticket writing mode" (e.g. shuts off all audible hearing of truth, logic or common sense or reason and gets the pen moving).

The riviera of the south seems a bit more sensible though...:blip:
I've told you the way things are, you've spouted nothing but bullshit and admitted to being a troll, your mate Bobsmith or Hoon Sang can't even get a brain to function well enough to dream up a simple insult. Face it, you're fucked!

Finn

1st August 2006, 08:44

The riviera of the south seems a bit more sensible though...:blip:

No he's just burnt out. Once he perf's, he's coming to work for me.

scumdog

1st August 2006, 08:47

No he's just burnt out. Once he perf's, he's coming to work for me.

WORK? work? ya didn't say nothin' about no stinkin' work!

I thought it was an extended all-expenses paid luxury holiday.:blah:

Swoop

1st August 2006, 08:49

I've told you the way things are..
Yes, correct.
You have also proven your narrow aspect and approach to your "work".
The horizon is broad...

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 08:52

Yes, correct.
You have also proven your narrow aspect and approach to your "work".
The horizon is broad...
We've discussed police use of firearms. We haven't talked about my "work" at all.

scumdog

1st August 2006, 08:53

"Look at me, look at me, look at me - one word Kimmy"

"Good-cop, bad-cop", works even on this site!:nya:

Finn

1st August 2006, 08:53

We haven't talked about my "work" at all.

A meter maid with hand cuffs?

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 08:56

Gee Finn, you got me good with that one. Just stick to calling me a pig, trying to be clever just doesn't work for you.

Finn

1st August 2006, 09:00

Gee Finn, you got me good with that one. Just stick to calling me a pig, trying to be clever just doesn't work for you.

Easy tiger.

If you were a fish, I wouldn't need tackle. You'd just jump in the boat.

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 09:02

Stop running it through your knuckles long enough to pat your self on the back then.

scumdog

1st August 2006, 09:03

A meter maid with hand cuffs?

"paid for by me" don't forget that bit, you're paying.

Finn

1st August 2006, 09:12

"paid for by me" don't forget that bit, you're paying.

Not me brother. Tax is for poor people.

scumdog

1st August 2006, 10:22

Not me brother. Tax is for poor people.

GST = you pay tax

Finn

1st August 2006, 10:38

GST = you pay tax

True, however this is offset against GST refunds, depreciation, paper losses and no captial gains.

A good accountant can reduce tax for cops too. You should only be paying a maximum of 15% tax if you own a house.

oldrider

1st August 2006, 11:31

Just in on the Stuff News Site:

MACHETE-WIELDER SHOT IN GUN SHOP
27 July 2006

A man who took a machete into a South Auckland gun shop today is in hospital, after he was shot in the stomach.

The man was thought to have been shot by someone in the shop about 10am.

"It would be reasonable to question why he went into the shop with a machete."

Opening post on this thread is quoted above, there were no cops at the scene at the time, so why does this thread turn into just another cop bashing thread?

It just gets off the subject and bloody boring!

There are enough cop bashing threads on this forum as it is, find one of them!

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 11:44

so why does this thread turn into just another cop bashing thread?
Because people have so little in their lives that they will seize upon any opportunity to have a go at something they simply have no understanding of.

Even when given the truth they will attempt to turn it around to keep their pathetic whinge active in a feable attempt to score points.

I think that their feable minds just get some sort of an ego boost if they can convince themselves that they "got one over the pigs".

Finn

1st August 2006, 11:44

They started it.

spudchucka

1st August 2006, 11:51

They started it.
Thats a good example of the mental attitude I just mentioned.

Patrick

1st August 2006, 11:52

Since it pisses all cops off so much, get them all back by ... ummm... I know...

not speeding... now there is a new idea?

That'll fuck em...

Finn

1st August 2006, 12:01

Thats a good example of the mental attitude I just mentioned.

It was an attempt at humour dumbass. Any post I've made about pigs is focused more on our failing police system at the hands of this government, not the pigs themselves. By being a pissy pants and taking all this personally, you obviously think that the system is working, you're not under-resourced and everything is fine and dandy. If this is correct then you are a bigger dumbass than I thought.

Lou Girardin

1st August 2006, 12:11

scumdog

1st August 2006, 12:28

The Harold reported this morning that machete man was trying to steal a gun so he could commit suicide. The poor dear broke up with his boyfriend/girlfriend/pet lamb (choose one) and life wasn't worth living.
I'm pleased that the shooter tried to cut out the middleman.
Used an M1911A1 apparently.

Given the mobility the machete-moron had after a .45 cal slug (guessing the 1911 WAS 45) sailed into him maybe now people will see why I'm all for more than one shot from a 9mm, (.357 cal).

Lucky for the shooter the moron wasn't on 'P' and a tad more motivated.

Lou Girardin

1st August 2006, 12:31

It might have been FMJ.

Patrick

1st August 2006, 12:31

Going back to my other thread within this thread...
I would like to apologise. But only for the fact that there are some thick buggers around here.
I can go and make a statement like that and the only people to resopnd here are the coppers. The rest of our community said nothing.
A strange similarity of when the police come out with the "speed kills" statement and attempt to target speed as the "golden bullet" to make roads safer. (Tui anyone?)

Only a small amount of people actually vocalised their displeasure (proportionally) with both comments.
We, as a biking community, are a small voice in the wilderness of political opinion and we ALL need to become far more prominent, otherwise we will be railroaded even more than what we are already seeing in the sham meetings to "gather public input".

Get with it people.

Yeah, couldn't believe what I read from ya, let alone how I was the only one to pick up on it? The rest of the community didn't give a toss... so often the way things are (also known as the silent majority).

Speed does kill tho... sometimes associated with alcohol and dickhead driving, but "Speed kills" is so easy to say, catchy to remember (look how it is always mentioned on here) and costs less for the advertisers to write up.

Saying something like "Speed and alcohol and dickhead driving and failing to stop at red lights and not giving way and crossing over yellow no passing lanes while overtaking approaching blind bends or crests in the road and...blah blah blah... kills" is so much harder to say and much less a catchy phrase to remember. But we digress.... again....

So does this mean you're not a KAHUI clan member of the tight 12?

Swoop

1st August 2006, 12:38

Yeah, couldn't believe what I read from ya, let alone how I was the only one to pick up on it? The rest of the community didn't give a toss... so often the way things are (also known as the silent majority).
:yes:

So does this mean you're not a KAHUI clan member of the tight 12?
Damn right.:yes:

Well said with the other points as well. A marketing campaign. Perhaps a move to the betterment of kiwi driving standards would show better results. Unpoular with Heilen Klarke and her treasury minister though.