Panic - new roads to be built to suit a 90k speed

[candor]

A copy and paste of freaky conspiracy evidence from SafeAs website.
Must go to show an 80 k open road limit is on the cards?!?!!

Posted today by "Kade" who works for some council I gather..

"I am currently doing a Diploma in Civil Engineering, specialising in roading, and was shocked to discover we were being told to engineer roads for speeds of 90km/h. I raised this point with the lecturer, and our next design was set at 100km/h, but the response I got was really along the lines of "if we make it so they can go faster, they will" which is a good point, but from what I gather it works well enough in Germany..."

KBer Squeaks inquisitive reply

"Kade, can you please tell us the name of your lecturer and what institute you are studying with. I would like to get an response from them on this as I find this very disturbing.

We are designing the roads to ensure that Speed Kills."

Squeaks last statement needs to be given to any one with a big mouth we can find - like say Don Brash, Simon Powers, Winston Peters, Holmes (is he still around).... What to do? (wringing hands).

[ManDownUnder]

What to do? (wringing hands).

Find someone with a big mouth, with an agenda served by shouting about it.

The media
BRONZ
The Opposition Minister of Transport Safety (is there one?)
Ministry of Economic Development +opposition
Ministry of Health + opposition

[Deano]

Which forum is it in ?

Can you post a link so I can raise this at the Masterton workshop ?

[Drum]

That may be what they are getting taught, but I assure you that is not what is getting designed in the real world (if such a thing exists).

We used to use a design speed of 111km/h for the rural environment unless difficult topography dictated otherwise (in which case you get a nice yellow sign telling you to go slower).

A corner with a design speed of 111 km/h could safely be navigated by a modern car at 120 km/h. Probably more on a bike.

[candor]

http://www.safeas.govt.nz/smf/index.php?topic=34.0

There's the thread. And a dig at the Queen of safe as is on the "MOT is here" thread in general section.

Hopefully it's just one lecturer who's seen one speed ad too many.

[Motu]

I doubt it - they would be putting bends into roads,not taking them out as the seem to be the last few years.Years ago some parts of our State Highways were a challenge - now you can set your cruise control to 100kmh and go to sleep....I thought this was the aim?

[eliot-ness]

Wouldn't lose any sleep over it. It's not likely to happen in any of our lifetimes.
When was the last time a new road was built in NZ, apart from motorways? It would be practically impossible to build even a basic dirt road with a maximum of 80kph without putting speed bumps every 50 mtrs. :scooter:

[Ixion]

I really wish they would do this.

If they engineered the road for 70kph (say), presumably that would mean tight corners, sharp bends and such like. That would slow Mabel down to 70kph. But what is that to us? Just the sort of road we like, surely? And it's hardly going to be 70kph for us. And if all the Stans and Mabels are doddering along at 70 , going "oo-eer, slow down dear", then there will be less pressure for speed limits.

It is the reverse that is happening , that I dislike. Raods being made easy, and Mabel getting carried away with the Demon, crashing and getting the PTB all a tizzy. Then they come out with sily ideas.

[avgas]

I doubt it - they would be putting bends into roads,not taking them out as the seem to be the last few years.Years ago some parts of our State Highways were a challenge - now you can set your cruise control to 100kmh and go to sleep....I thought this was the aim?
Karangahape Gorge........may she rest her poor soul....we will miss her

[The Pastor]

I don't know about you, but im all for corners! and killing cops....

[WINJA]

lets bash andy knackstead to death

[Deano]

A corner with a design speed of 111 km/h could safely be navigated by a modern car at 120 km/h. Probably more on a bike.

Unless you're a muppet. (at least 10% of the driving population ??)



lets bash andy knackstead to death

"Let's" is probably overkill. He doesn't look like he could take a hit.

How about two 55kg female Kiwibikers vs Randy Andy, (real name Mandy) knackerhead in a pool of jelly ??

[Toast]

How about two 55kg female Kiwibikers vs Randy Andy, (real name Mandy) knackerhead in a pool of jelly ??

I hate bikers and corners too...can I have a go after him?:2thumbsup

[quickbuck]

I really wish they would do this.

If they engineered the road for 70kph (say), presumably that would mean tight corners, sharp bends and such like. That would slow Mabel down to 70kph. But what is that to us? Just the sort of road we like, surely? And it's hardly going to be 70kph for us. And if all the Stans and Mabels are doddering along at 70 , going "oo-eer, slow down dear", then there will be less pressure for speed limits.

It is the reverse that is happening , that I dislike. Raods being made easy, and Mabel getting carried away with the Demon, crashing and getting the PTB all a tizzy. Then they come out with sily ideas.

Well Said!

On a similar note I found out what those speed advisory signs mean on bends when I first got a bike in MPH (98 GSX600).
When approaching one that says 65 you adjust the throttle until the speedo says... *Ahem*.. 65, and tip the bike in, and it is the perfect speed to travel around the bend. It works for all except the ones that say 15. If you try to do 15 around these the bike falls over (as it was around that transition point between steering in and counter steering).

[candor]

There IS A vocal lobby group for speed limit reductions for oh say the next 20 years (just until the roads are sorted). Read about it and weep

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK0508/S00090.htm

Could be why they're running the safe as programming sessions.

SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS - You know the stuck record, and its a proven fact that more people break the limit when its set lower so this would be VERY good for maximising revenue.

Heres the link. And the guy mentioned in it called Tony Bliss is the World Bank head honcho of traffic economics - we believe it was him who set the greatest enforceable risk policy which is so very enriching.

[Colapop]

Just a point here, the NZ open road speed limit is 100kph, right? So it would stand to reason that the roads have been designed (including safeguards) to be able to handle traffic at speeds of say 120kph? Yet many bikers ride at speed in excess of that and have done for some time. So if they lower the road design speed to 90kph aren't bikers (generalisation) going to continue to ride at the speeds that they have done in the past regardless? So there's nothing to get upset about.

[clint640]

Actually some LTNZ wallahs came out with a report a couple of months back, they looked at all the roads in NZ & concluded that none of them were safe at over 100km/h, & in many places limits should be lowered.

Now I'm no traffic engineer but I've ridden them & I'm buggered if I can tell the difference between the Austrian (120km/h limit) & German (WooHoo) Autobahns & most of this country's motorways.

Cheers
Clint

[SPman]

International speakers included Dr Ian Johnston, the prominent psychologist and Director of Monash University's Accident Research Centre, Assistant Commissioner Bob Hastings and Chief Superintendent John Hartley - two of Australia?s top police officers and leading forces in the field of innovative traffic enforcement,
Monash! - whose research is based on the predication that motorbikes should be banned and all vehicles should travel at 50k down divided roads! - and 2 of Orstralias more draconian cops......

No deaths on the roads? That would be a world historical first for the last 50000 years! FFS, the road toll back in 1929 was thrice what it is now in vehicles/population terms and the average road speed was about 53 kph!
Just ban all vehicles from the roads! - that 'd do it!

[McJim]

Now I'm no traffic engineer but I've ridden them & I'm buggered if I can tell the difference between the Austrian (120km/h limit) & German (WooHoo) Autobahns & most of this country's motorways.

Cheers
Clint
The Austrian and German motorways are more than a few hundred metres long.....:rofl:

This would mean a radical rethink of the equipment given to the police - they would require vehicles that actually go round corners something their Holdens and BMW's are woefully inadequate at.

The question will be are they designing roads for big block gas guzzlers to do 90kph on (in which case bikes and properly proportioned cars can still do 120kph) or will they design a road that will restrict a Lotus Elise to 90kph thus reducing holdens and fords to 30kph?

[Drum]

Actually some LTNZ wallahs came out with a report a couple of months back, they looked at all the roads in NZ & concluded that none of them were safe at over 100km/h, & in many places limits should be lowered..........

Its because speed limits are not solely based on road geometry, rather they are based on roadside development. There more development there is, the slower the speed limit. Problem is that a lot of our 100 km/h areas are getting quite heavily developed, and are no longer considered as safe to ride/ drive at 100 km/h. Take lower parts of SH16 for example, where the speed limit has been progressively lowered since as the devleopment has increased.

Also, sometimes when they cant think of another way of reducing the crash rate on a particular stretch of road, there is a tendancy to lower the speed limit as a desperate act. For example, the ridge north of Waiwera, where the limit was lowered to 80 km/h due to the number of loss of control accidents.

[clint640]

Its because speed limits are not solely based on road geometry, rather they are based on roadside development. There more development there is, the slower the speed limit. Problem is that a lot of our 100 km/h areas are getting quite heavily developed, and are no longer considered as safe to ride/ drive at 100 km/h. Take lower parts of SH16 for example, where the speed limit has been progressively lowered since as the devleopment has increased.
.

No doubt, that's why I gave the example of our motorways. (what there is of them anyway)

& one would think that if that reasoning was applied evenly, a few of the relatively deserted & straight bits of state hwy around might have nudged over the suitable for more than 100km/h mark.

Cheers
Clint

[candor]

The MOT audit the Breen report (by Brits) recommends reducing mean speeds to 93k rural and ?51k town. As a shortterm means to achieve the 2010 toll goals. Its nothing to do with what is safe or unsafe apparently, just with meeting certain kill rates on time. So the speed mngement goals are arbitrary.
No-one much would die at 70, too many at 100 say statistics so 93 is good!

Idiots.

[Lou Girardin]

The mean speed on the open has been reported as being 97 km/h now. That means there are an awful lot of drivers on the open road doing 80 - 90 k's. Combine that with the number of people being ticketed for 111 -115 km'h and you have a serious speed differential. This is where a lot of our rural accidents are coming from. If not actual conflict between the two, then frustration at being held up.

[Drum]

The mean speed on the open has been reported as being 97 km/h now............

Mean Speed? Or 90th percentile?

[SPman]

Mean speed.
Driver magazine had a good article, with stats, to show that the roads are 37 times safer than they were in 1929!

Its because speed limits are not solely based on road geometry, rather they are based on roadside development.
You get this a lot over here - the Toodyay rd for example - out in the sticks with a 110 limit - except where a road joins, or there may be a driveway or a stray store and the limit bounces between 80-90-100-110 - can get quite confusing - if you stuck to the limits like the cars do - I just take it as a single to be more vigilant and on guard.....

[myvice]

At the end of the day...
Your local bit of road that you let off steam over after a hard day is now set at 100kph.
You regularly hit this windy bit of tarmac at WELL over the set limit knowing that if you get caught, your in the shit, lots of zeros on the fine and walking for a while.
Next month you hang a left into your circuit and spot the blur says 80 instead of 100.
Now if you get caught its another, much larger sum and you’re going to get very fit.

So do you slow down?
The road is the same, your bike has the same power and handling it had befor and you had a good breakfast.
Naaa…

It’s going to happen, and here’s why and how...
Fist why;
People cant drive, although its not entirely true, the lowest common denominator cant drive so we have to all be brought down to that level for our, and their safety.
One of the many reasons they cant drive is that there is no real testing to see if they can befor letting them lose on the roads, and most drivers have had little or no training.
So we have a situation where we have say 100 wannabe drivers.
10 of these can actually drive in a competent and safe manor...
But, we need more than a 10% pass rate so the powers that be make it easier for the rest to pass...
Now we have a lower standed 50% can pass, hmmm, need more than that due to having no workable public transport as we all know and people need to work.
So they dumb it down with scratch and win tests and let the remaining in as we cant discriminate against the terminally stupid.
Now we are going to have limits that are as slow as the dregs of the gene pool are, to keep them alive.
And all the while people are being told that there cars are so much safer now, so they act accordingly... I'm safe, I can’t be hurt in my nice safe car, do de do de do...
And at 80kph, they’re right.

And how;
Speed kills, if you say that it doesn’t you must want to kill all the children!
You sick person! Get help!
Haven’t you seen the ads on TV? People are dying on the road because of speed and nothing else!

Its been so indoctrinated into people that to go against it would be like telling people the world is round 800 years ago.
If a group or individual where to go against the grain they would be discredited and ridiculed by the establishment, AA, MoT, ACC, insurance companies, LTNZ, Transit NZ and anyone else that has something to gain from lower speeds or more control over what we do.
Sorry, we have already lost the fight, out manoeuvred 10 years ago by an ad campaign, miss-information and statistics that the powers that be control.
We may be able to keep the limits the same in some places but it will be a fight to do so and any crash in the area will be laid at our feet.
Don’t look at it as a loss, look at it as a challenge!