A time to stop complaining?

[Sniper]

Got send this today. Apparently the lady was furious and tried to organise a protest against being spoken down to and not being taken seriously. The Whitehouse responded that they were very serious and unless she wanted to avoid "Ahmed" coming to live with them, she should stop crying about something she knows little about.


A Lady liberal wrote a lot of letters to the White House complaining about the treatment of a captive insurgent (terrorist) being held in Guantanamo Bay. She received the following reply:

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, D.C. 20016



Dear Concerned Citizen,

Thank you for your recent letter roundly criticizing our treatment of
the Taliban and Al Quada detainees currently being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Our administration takes these matters seriously and your opinion was heard loud and clear here in Washington.

You'll be pleased to learn that, thanks to the concerns of citizens
like yourself, we are creating a new division of the Terrorist
Retraining Program, to be called the "Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers" program, or LARK for short.

In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided to place one terrorist under your personal care.

Your personal detainee has been selected and scheduled for
transportation under heavily armed guard to your residence next
Monday. Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud (you can just call him Ahmed) is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally demanded in your letter of complaint. It will likely be necessary for you to hire some assistant caretakers.

We will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with those you so strongly recommended in your letter.

Although Ahmed is a sociopath and extremely violent, we hope that your sensitivity to what you described as his "attitudinal problem" will help him overcome these character flaws.

Perhaps you are correct in describing these problems as mere cultural differences. We understand that you plan to offer counseling and home schooling.

Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. We advise that you do not ask him to demonstrate these skills at your next yoga group. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked up, unless (in your opinion) this might offend him.

Ahmed will not wish to interact with you or your daughters (except
sexually), since he views females as a subhuman form of property. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him and he has been known to show violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the new dress code that he will recommend as more appropriate attire.

I'm sure you will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the burka -- over time.

Just remember that it is all part of "respecting his culture and his
religious beliefs" -- wasn't that how you put it?

Thanks again for your letter. We truly appreciate it when folks like
you keep us informed of the proper way to do our job. You take good care of Ahmed - and remember: we'll be watching.

Good luck!

Cordially, your friend,

Don Rumsfeld

[Indiana_Jones]

Pwn3d. :D

Fuck those dicks in Guantanamo.

-Indy

[Colapop]

They can send a couple of them to my place - dog food is expensive!

[John Banks]

I forgot that laws didn't apply to suspected terrorists.

[Indiana_Jones]

Then maybe you should remember.

-Indy

[Kickaha]

I forgot that laws didn't apply to suspected terrorists.

I suspect Sniper is a terrorist, can we send him there? :bleh:

[MattRSK]

haha straight up indy. You tell him. Indy for pm.

[SPORK]

I suspect Sniper is a terrorist, can we send him there? :bleh:
Hopefully. But, ya know, he's white. So obviously not a terrist.

[Street Gerbil]

Here comes the bling!

[SARGE]

I forgot that laws didn't apply to suspected terrorists.


the Geneva Convention laws only apply to uniformed fighters under a national flag.. the ones hiding behind women and children while wearing civillian bedsheets are enemy combatants..

send me some terrorists ..

the last ones were delicious

[SPORK]

the Geneva Convention laws only apply to uniformed fighters under a national flag.. the ones hiding behind women and children while wearing civillian bedsheets are enemy combatants..

send me some terrorists ..

the last ones were delicious
What are you going to do? Bitch them to death?

What would you do if an Arab man in full "bedsheets" came in to buy a motorcycle from you?

[SARGE]

What are you going to do? Bitch them to death?

What would you do if an Arab man in full "bedsheets" came in to buy a motorcycle from you?


first of all.. its happened..like i have said in many previous posts .. i have nothing against the islamic world as a whole.. its the fucktard fundy jihadist motherfuckers i have a problem with.. one of them came in and started spouting death to America and he and i would have an issue..

second of all..

i dont sell bikes anymore.. catch up


EDIT .. how was stating the difference between soldiers and cowards bitching?.. step away from the crack pipe bro..

[The Pastor]

this is just a p/t right? No one acutally got that letter...?

[jazbug5]

this is just a p/t right? No one acutally got that letter...?

I doubt Donald Rumsfeld could have come up with something like that on his own, feeble though it is...

[texmo]

Fuck thats some good reading right there. keep it coming sniper.

[Lou Girardin]

Merkins can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't want their version of democracy.
The answer is Guantanamo Bay and the 'Patriot' Act.
Freedom? Freedom to do as we say, more like.

[SARGE]

Merkins can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't want their version of democracy.
The answer is Guantanamo Bay and the 'Patriot' Act.
Freedom? Freedom to do as we say, more like.


not a big fan of the Patriot Act Lou.. but if it protects my family i'l live with it.. as far as Gitmo.. go for it .. the more the merrier.. as far as i know, if they wanted to be protected by the Geneva Conventions, they would join up with a uniformed military and fight like men.. not hiding behind women and murdering civillians..

Lou, i really respect your opinion, even if i disagree with it. you make very passionate yet reasonable arguments. i think you are looking at this through the eyes of someone who considers himself safe in NZ. there i no way we, as civilians, can kno what gos on behind locked doors.. what if your family was under threat though.. what if Al Qeda/ Hezbollah/ the IRA had NZ in its target list though?.. wouldnt you demand that SOMEONE stand up and grab the bull by the balls so to speak, no matter the cost?

MY family i consider under threat.. (the civillans, not the nieces and nephews that are deployed in the ME).. any day the cowards could walk into a mall or movie theatre or sporting event with a vest full of explosives, or worse a chemical/biological/ radiation dirty bomb and detonate it.

now.. yea.. its not pretty bro.. all those poor Muslims at Gitmo are being humiliated, threatened, allegedly tortured, punched, kicked etc...

good for them.. get the intel you need to have any way you can get it.. in fact .. step it up a level..damn the hippies ..this is war

[Mental Trousers]

I wish administrations would actually send letters like that one and follow through. It's great seeing tree hugging hippies put in their place.

As for Guantanamo Bay, those that are incarcerated there made a choice. They choose to act outside the rules for combatants and not be covered by the Geneva Convention. They willingly gave up their rights.

Slight tangent, but if it was up to me all of those who criminal acts that involve severe violence, children or of a sexual nature would lose their rights as human beings. After all, if they choose to act in a way that totally disregards somebodies rights, they are choosing to give up their rights.

[Sniper]

Slight tangent, but if it was up to me all of those who criminal acts that involve severe violence, children or of a sexual nature would lose their rights as human beings. After all, if they choose to act in a way that totally disregards somebodies rights, they are choosing to give up their rights.

Nicely said. Then they are free game. Target shooting is getting boring now, I could use some live target practise.

[SARGE]

Nicely said. Then they are free game. Target shooting is getting boring now, I could use some live target practise.


i only shoot 'Cans.. : giggle :

[Lou Girardin]

No sarge it's not war. It's a neo-con adventure.
Personally, I think of myself as more civilised than these so-called terrorists, many of your politicians too for that matter. I wouldn't stoop to what either side is doing.
The Europeans beat their terrorists by treating them as criminals and applying the law against them. Current tactics will see your lot kicked out of Iraq, Afghanistan and anywhere else in the East, you guys just don't (or don't want to) understand who you're dealing with.
Fighting fire with fire just makes for a bigger conflagration

[ManDownUnder]

The problem I have Gitmo is the apparent lack of due process. Establishing the level of involvement (aka innocence) has got to be a fundamental priority, and those incarcerated need to be able to challenge the fact they're being held.

If they're being held for good reason - then hold 'em and do what the military do best. I have my own personal feelings on what's acceptable bu then I also know my loved one have never been in immediate danger, and I don't have the experience of being the sharp end of high speed lead.

Edit - Oh dear God - I'm on the same side as Lou...

[Sniper]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

[SARGE]

No sarge it's not war. It's a neo-con adventure.
Personally, I think of myself as more civilised than these so-called terrorists, many of your politicians too for that matter. I wouldn't stoop to what either side is doing.
The Europeans beat their terrorists by treating them as criminals and applying the law against them. Current tactics will see your lot kicked out of Iraq, Afghanistan and anywhere else in the East, you guys just don't (or don't want to) understand who you're dealing with.
Fighting fire with fire just makes for a bigger conflagration


i tend to take the Fire-Break view of things Lou..

the Europeans have beaten Terrorism?????

tell that to London, Spain, etc.. im sure they will be happy with the news..

the Spanish FOLDED when the fire go too hot..the terrorists won

in WW2.. the French collaborated (http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~os0tmc/occupied/collab.htm) with Nazi Germany to stop themselfs from being wiped off the planet.. that is weakness and cowardice.. Never forget in World War 2 France was sending its Jews to concentration camps even before Germany demanded it..

What keeps me sane is to remember that the real purpose behind the D-Day Invasion wasn't that we liberated an ungrateful, over-rated, soapless nation, but that we destroyed Hiler's war machine... history DOES repeat Lou.. ya gotta bread a few eggs to make an omlet

Lou.. your Vichy is showing..

[Indiana_Jones]

Fighting fire with fire just makes for a bigger conflagration

Best option against fighting this fire, or we could let the fire burn us :scooter:

Anyways, go out in a blaze of glory :nya:

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

the Spanish FOLDED when the fire go too hot..the terrorists won

Yep :wait:

I can't believe they bowed down to them, fucking girls lol

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

You could say the same about the Romans... or any of the superpowers throughout history.

It's unfortunate that being a superpower kinda puts you into the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" camp.

What if they had done this, what if they had done that... what if they HADN'T etc. It's easy to find topical examples, and second guess them till the cows come home, but none of that second guessing is going to be provably accurate, so it's only good for arguing over (preferably with beer involved, a hint of violence then women coming along to calm things down by disrobing and cracking open the baby oil).

Anyway - you get the idea.

What I think we can/should focus on is the manner by which things ARE being done. Gitmo being the example at hand.

I have my opinions, but they're not tempered with combat experience, which gives them a perspective of their own. I'm certainly not qualified to talk about getting information from prisoners - I know nothing about it, and I'm probably too damned nice for it anyway. I'd be getting them a hanky while Sarge might be seeing if he can get just a hint of blood...

Due process - that is something I'm inclined to comment on...

[Lou Girardin]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

Different times, different enemy, different motivation.
Merkins do better when they help out in other peoples wars rather than start their own.

[SARGE]

You could say the same about the Romans... or any of the superpowers throughout history.

It's unfortunate that being a superpower kinda puts you into the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" camp.

What if they had done this, what if they had done that... what if they HADN'T etc. It's easy to find topical examples, and second guess them till the cows come home, but none of that second guessing is going to be provably accurate, so it's only good for arguing over (preferably with beer involved, a hint of violence then women coming along to calm things down by disrobing and cracking open the baby oil).

Anyway - you get the idea.

What I think we can/should focus on is the manner by which things ARE being done. Gitmo being the example at hand.
I know nothing about it, and I'm probably too damned nice for it anyway. I'd be getting them a hnanky while Sarge might be seeing if he can get just a hint of blood...
.


mate .. i'd be going for more than a HINT of blood..

blood makes the grass grow,,

[Lou Girardin]

i tend to take the Fire-Break view of things Lou..

the Europeans have beaten Terrorism?????

tell that to London, Spain, etc.. im sure they will be happy with the news..

the Spanish FOLDED when the fire go too hot..the terrorists won

..

I'm talking about Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades et al. The 70's terrorists.
You know, history. The thing Merkins never learn from.
BTW. Those cans you shoot. Wouldn't be MexiCANS and Puerto RiCANS perchance?

[ManDownUnder]

Different times, different enemy, different motivation.
Merkins do better when they help out in other peoples wars rather than start their own.

I think we all do Lou. a War offshore is a lot different to one at home.

[SARGE]

I'm talking about Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades et al. The 70's terrorists.
You know, history. The thing Merkins never learn from.


yea .. they beat them alright ..slap on the wrist .. now because of that .. the Arab fighters think its easy peasy.. they can do a few years in prison standing on thier hands ..time to cut the Cancer out once and for all man..


The Syrian Ambassador to the UN has just finished giving a speech, and walks out into the lobby where he meets President Bush. They shake hands and as they walk the Syrian says, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America." President Bush says, "Well, your Excellency, anything I can do to help you, I will do." The Syrian whispers "My young son watches (and loves) this show Star Trek and in it there are Russians, and Blacks, and Asians, but never any Arabs. He is very upset. He doesn't understand why there are never any Arabs in Star Trek."

President Bush sorta chuckled and leaning toward the Syrian, whispers back, "It's because it takes place in the future....there are none left"

[Lou Girardin]

yea .. they beat them alright ..slap on the wrist ...

Seen any around?
The Basques are all that's left of those times. And it's more of a sport for them.

[Ixion]

I wish administrations would actually send letters like that one and follow through. It's great seeing tree hugging hippies put in their place.

As for Guantanamo Bay, those that are incarcerated there made a choice. They choose to act outside the rules for combatants and not be covered by the Geneva Convention. They willingly gave up their rights.



Well, that's the problem , isn't it. Nobody actually knows whether any given prisoner did or did not make such a choice, because, as Mr MDU pertinantly notes, there is no due process. The prisoners are not charged, have no opportunity to defend themselves. Basically, as far as I can determine, some US officer decides "You're a terrorist - off you go". And that's it. Now sometimes that call might be just and valid. But I would be hesitant to say that it always would be. Very hesitant indeed.

Indeed , I don't really have too much objection to Gitmo in itself. War is war. And war is hell. To the victor go the spoils , and if you're on the losing side, you can't expect too much. If the Yanks decide to shoot those they capture out of hand or throw them into prison indefinately, based on a simple resort to might is right, I'm not too inclined to get my panties in a bunch about it. I can even manage to blink an eye to the use of torture. Not a good look, but it happens , always has, always will

But I do object to the spurious pseudo-legitimacy they attempt to cast over it. It degrades the whole concept of due process.




Slight tangent, but if it was up to me all of those who criminal acts that involve severe violence, children or of a sexual nature would lose their rights as human beings. After all, if they choose to act in a way that totally disregards somebodies rights, they are choosing to give up their rights.


You'd be for removing human rights from an awful lot of our young folk then? Bearing in mind that sexual relations where either party is under 16 is a criminal act of a sexual nature? Happens a bit, I'm told.

And , until a few years ago, homosexual acts between consenting adults etc were criminal acts. And obviously of a sexual nature. Still are in a lot of places. So gays should also lose their human rights?

[Mental Trousers]

Non-concentual sexual nature.

[Lou Girardin]

Non-concentual sexual nature.

Under-age sex is deemed to be non-consensual.
That's the problems with absolutes. Everything is just so unpredictable.

[The_Dover]

And , until a few years ago, homosexual acts between consenting adults etc were criminal acts. And obviously of a sexual nature. Still are in a lot of places. So gays should also lose their human rights?

For sure.

bloody pooftas

[Mental Trousers]

Under-age sex is deemed to be non-consensual.
That's the problems with absolutes. Everything is just so unpredictable.
Under aged are also not seen/treated as adults because they're not old enough to know the consequences (among other things). Why would you treat two 13 year old kids who went at it cos they were curious the same as a 40 year old who fiddles a child? They're 2 totally different cases.

[Lou Girardin]

Under aged are also not seen/treated as adults because they're not old enough to know the consequences (among other things). Why would you treat two 13 year old kids who went at it cos they were curious the same as a 40 year old who fiddles a child? They're 2 totally different cases.

The debate was about non-consensual sex. Not kiddie fiddlers.
But if you cast your mind back a few months, you'll remember the case of a cabbie who had his licence revoked because he been convicted of under-age sex when he was 16, from memory the girl was 15.
He was most definitely treated as an adult and is paying the price 30 or 40 years later.

[Sniper]

Proberbly cause the bitch was upset he never called afterwards

[Mental Trousers]

Don't know the case sorry.

[jazbug5]

If so, it set a precedent (the cabbie) because that particular conviction is relatively common in cabbies, for the exact same reason - many men who grew up in the 50s to the 70s have a conviction for underage sex.
It doesn't affect their ability to obtain a cabbie license if it is their only conviction of that nature.

[Kickaha]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

Please provide some examples of this and tell us what language we would be speaking?

[rogson]

Hey you young ones, and those older but too dim to remember the recent past - perhaps you should study recent history.

Unbelievable as it may seem today, the democratic world owes a big debt/thankyou to the "nasty" USA - and the imperatives that motivated them then, still apply today.

The principal failing of the current administration is the naive belief that "democracy" can be "rubber stamped" into countries and cultures that have no idea of the concept.

[jazbug5]

This would be the same 'democracy' that didn't actually vote in their own president?
I seeee.

[Swoop]

Terrorist hunting season has opened once again.
20 bombers planning a combined assault on trans Atlantic airliners.
20 x 400 passengers = ... history.


And all the European terrorists had been jailed?

[SARGE]

Terrorist hunting season has opened once again.
20 bombers planning a combined assault on trans Atlantic airliners.
20 x 400 passengers = ... history.


And all the European terrorists had been jailed?


thank fuckin god..


i can sleep well tonight cuz there are no more terrorists in Europe..

Lou said so..

i read it on the interdweeb.. it MUST be true..

[Biff]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

Rispek to that. And a personal thanks for helping out in the Balkans recently.

But that's history. There's a different guy in the hot seat these days, whose international foreign policy is dictated by the neo-conservatives around him. And they're fruit loops IMO. And they've a New World Order in their sights. And it scares the crap out of me.

Bring back Clinton.


Congrats Box 500.

[Ixion]

thank fuckin god..


i can sleep well tonight cuz there are no more terrorists in Europe..

Lou said so..

i read it on the interdweeb.. it MUST be true..

Still a few Commies around, but.

[Swoop]

This would be the same 'democracy' that didn't actually vote in their own president?
I seeee.
Obviously the same democracy we have here.
I didn't vote for labour and yet I'm still forced to have them "represent" my views and opinions...

Thank fuck for MMP!!!

[Lou Girardin]

thank fuckin god..


i can sleep well tonight cuz there are no more terrorists in Europe..

Lou said so..

i read it on the interdweeb.. it MUST be true..

Lets keep to specifics here sarge. The current crop are imports, attracted to Europe by the "War on Terror"

[Lou Girardin]

Obviously the same democracy we have here.
I didn't vote for labour and yet I'm still forced to have them "represent" my views and opinions...

Thank fuck for MMP!!!

Under FPP, there were minority Govts. National winning with 39% of the vote in one case because they gerrymandered the electoral boundaries. We had democratic dictatorship under Muldoon. Was that better?
I doubt that if you didn't vote for Labour, they could be said to represent your views.

[SARGE]

Lets keep to specifics here sarge. The current crop are imports, attracted to Europe by the "War on Terror"


thats a great idea though .. the war in Iraq is attracting all the scumbags to just a few locations .. the more the merrier i say ,,, saves us from havng to scope everywhere ..

how convenient..

[Swoop]

Under FPP, there were minority Govts. National winning with 39% of the vote in one case because they gerrymandered the electoral boundaries. We had democratic dictatorship under Muldoon. Was that better?
I doubt that if you didn't vote for Labour, they could be said to represent your views.
FPP was just a giant see-saw. You had one or the other and that was your lot. Each as bad as the other...
With MMP there is thankfully a voice of smaller portions of the population (The party vote).

muldoon. Where is he buried? I need to take a piss on his grave.

[moko]

Lets keep to specifics here sarge. The current crop are imports, attracted to Europe by the "War on Terror"

Actually Lou that`s not strictly correct,the London Bombers were born and raised here as are most of those arrested yesterday for the alleged terror plot.British terrorists have also comitted suicide bomb attacks in Israel.Instead of spouting populist bull-shit and routinely rounding up and detaining scores of foreigners,who almost without fail are eventually released without charge,our government needs to take a long hard think about why that is.Blair apes Bush with his condemnation of Syria and Iran e.t.c.while convieniently ignoring the fact that those who have actually committed acts of terrorism here and the majority of those suspected of plotting another one were born,brought up and educated in Britain.Something is very wrong and not asking questions because you`re afraid of the answers you`ll get while pointing the finger at some far-off bogey-men because it`s the easy option is cowardly and irresponsible.

[SARGE]

different names.. different faces .. same terror

so much for Law Enforcement taking out all the Euro-trash

[Lou Girardin]

Actually Lou that`s not strictly correct,the London Bombers were born and raised here as are most of those arrested yesterday for the alleged terror plot.British terrorists have also comitted suicide bomb attacks in Israel.Instead of spouting populist bull-shit and routinely rounding up and detaining scores of foreigners,who almost without fail are eventually released without charge,our government needs to take a long hard think about why that is.Blair apes Bush with his condemnation of Syria and Iran e.t.c.while convieniently ignoring the fact that those who have actually committed acts of terrorism here and the majority of those suspected of plotting another one were born,brought up and educated in Britain.Something is very wrong and not asking questions because you`re afraid of the answers you`ll get while pointing the finger at some far-off bogey-men because it`s the easy option is cowardly and irresponsible.

Quite right. I should have said the cause is imported.

OK sarge, they've got all the terrorists in one place. What are Bush/Blair (Blush?) going to do now?
Discover it's all too hard, like finding Bin Laden, and discover a new threat to world peace?
Maybe they'll attack Greenland, or, safer still, NZ.
We could be the axis of mischief.

[SPORK]

For some reason I get the idea that SARGE would love "The Teeth of the Tiger" by Tom Clancy...

[mstriumph]

.........................

Edit - Oh dear God - I'm on the same side as Lou...

SHE won't help you --- you are doomed! DOOMED!!!!!!

[mstriumph]

.........................the London Bombers were born and raised here as are most of those arrested yesterday for the alleged terror plot.............................. convieniently ignoring the fact that those who have actually committed acts of terrorism here and the majority of those suspected of plotting another one were born,brought up and educated in Britain.Something is very wrong and not asking questions because you`re afraid of the answers you`ll get while pointing the finger at some far-off bogey-men because it`s the easy option is cowardly and irresponsible.

i suspect it has more to do with an agegroup, testosterine and wanting to belong/confirm one's identity than it does with religion per se .......... you are SO right - nobody wants to face today the problems we failed to solve yesterday

[ManDownUnder]

SHE won't help you --- you are doomed! DOOMED!!!!!!

Read my signature lately?? LOL

No - I'm more worried by Lou to be honest...

[moko]

Quite right. I should have said the cause is imported.


Again Lou I`d argue that,it`s not only Muslims who see a major cause of the world`s problems right now as a direct result of Blair`s behaviour,something that`s a very common view here and one widely expressed.British Muslims not only hold this view but also have been demonised by Government scare-mongering and stereotyping in a similar,but far subtler, manner to the anti-semitism in pre-war Germany,by men in suits speaking quietly not nutters in uniforms ranting. Asian youths are regularly hassled by the Police here,people see their neighbours houses getting their doors kicked in and men waving machine guns in the street only for them to return a few days later because they`d been targetted by incorrect intelligence or they`ve got the wrong person,often they`re people totally baffled as to how their name got flagged up.All this and increasing racial attacks and abuse from knuckle-draggers.The BNP,our biggest Racist Political party,is gaining support rapidly despite their obvious lack of intelligence or any coherant policies.British Asians are developing a seige mentality,one that`s understandable if you see what`s happening here.Already stirred up by events overseas,as many are here from all ethnic and religious groups,they`re also under attack from the media,racist thugs and even apparently the Government.As in the Lebanon moderate,decent people are being pushed towards the lunatic fringe when they see people shot,houses trashed,their wife coming home with a black eye because some heroic flag-waver is doing his bit to protect us all from "them" and themselves treated with suspicion and even fear as they go about their business.It`s this kind of treatment that had 1 in 3 Muslims tell a recent survey here saying that they thought the suicide attacks in London last year were justified.We do have a problem,a very serious one but to a large extent it`s been fermented by the goon in charge desperate as ever to blame everyone but himself for anything at all.

[Winston001]

Good discussion. Damned if life ain't complicated these days. I really think we have to take a deep breath and go back to fundamentals.

All people are essentially decent. Muslims, Christians, Marxists, Agnostics, Americans, Aussies, Russians, British - even the French, are just folks who want to live peacefully and raise their families.

Unfortunately there are barriers between many of these different groups. Different languages, economic conditions, culture, history.

These barriers must be taken down. Knowledge, communication and understanding are the only way we will dissolve terrorism. We need to be educated about each others cultures.

How about a Big Brother with different ethnic groups represented. Less 60 Minutes stories about Paris Hilton et al and more about life in a Chinese/Afghanistani/Bolivian school.

[Sniper]

How about a Big Brother with different ethnic groups represented. Less 60 Minutes stories about Paris Hilton et al and more about life in a Chinese/Afghanistani/Bolivian school.

Because unless you were there. At the end, you will still not understand motives, lifestyles and such


My 0.02c

[jazbug5]

Because unless you were there. At the end, you will still not understand motives, lifestyles and such


My 0.02c

So we shouldn't bother to try and understand?

[Sniper]

So we shouldn't bother to try and understand?

I didnt say that, but I didnt make it clear either.

What I mean is that certain types of folks believe everything they see and hear on TV. Kind of like the people who believe that the children they give $1 a day too actually get the total amount of $1 per day. I would use the word nieve, but Im not sure if thats all that true.

Its fine if you want to try and understand. Hell I do, but not always with ethical (I think) situations.

[Lou Girardin]

These are five principles that the British Empire used to deal with insurgencies,
Ensure good co-ordination between Police and security agancies.
Deny the enemy a base
Secure your own base.
KEEP THE POLITICAL AND MORAL HIGH GROUND
ADDRESS YOUR OPPONENTS GRIEVANCES

These principles allowed the British Empire to control the most widespread colonial possesions the world has seen.
That these principles are ignored by the US and, by default, the UK, it's clear that they cannot win the 'war on terror' with current policies.
It'll take the demise of Bush, Blair and the rest of the neo-con, christian fundamentalist power brokers before the world will be relatively safe again.

[moko]

It'll take the demise of Bush, Blair and the rest of the neo-con, christian fundamentalist power brokers before the world will be relatively safe again.

Typical of the ignorance and mis-understanding shown by the current British Government is the recent appointment of Ruth Kelly M.P. to "tackle religious extremism".The same Ruth Kelly who`s membership of Catholic Fundamentalist group Opus Dei has caused so much controversy over here.Of course by "Religious Extremism" they mean "Islamic Extremism" and Kelly`s appointment is seen as either an example of their total stupidity or a calculated slap in the face for the Muslim community.What really disturbs me is that there does seem to be a concerted effort to piss off the Muslim population here from those who should know better,given that there are now 2 million Muslims living here,the vast majority hard-working,law-abiding people it`s a bit baffling and not very clever.

[Jamezo]

I don't know what is sadder; that someone spent a lot of time coming up with that peurile bullshit, or that there are those that believed it at face value....

[Sniper]

I was wondering how long it would take you to get here :)

[Biff]

I didnt say that, but I didnt make it clear either.

What I mean is that certain types of folks believe everything they see and hear on TV. Kind of like the people who believe that the children they give $1 a day too actually get the total amount of $1 per day. I would use the word nieve, but Im not sure if thats all that true.



For a minute there I thought you were talking about me. Then I remembered that for every $1 I donate 75c goes to the 'cause'. That's cheaper that sending the cash by Post. So all's good.


The same Ruth Kelly who`s membership of Catholic Fundamentalist group Opus Dei has caused so much controversy over here..

What utter Arse Biscuits. They study and promote devout Catholicism.

I was a Mason for a while. That does make me a Knight Templer?

Don't believe everything you read in the Da Vinci Code.

I don't see what the issue is with the appointment of Ruth Kelly. She's an excellent politician. Is it really such an issue that just because someone is a strict Catholic they're not allowed/or capable of introducing policy or promote ideas that may enable people of different cultures to live in harmony. If so - then you're the one extreme views IMO.

[Jamezo]

I was wondering how long it would take you to get here :)
It was only a matter of time, my uninformed-rant-detecter went off while I was on the john.

[moko]

What utter Arse Biscuits. They study and promote devout Catholicism.
I was a Mason for a while. That does make me a Knight Templer?
Don't believe everything you read in the Da Vinci Code.
I don't see what the issue is with the appointment of Ruth Kelly. She's an excellent politician. Is it really such an issue that just because someone is a strict Catholic they're not allowed/or capable of introducing policy or promote ideas that may enable people of different cultures to live in harmony. If so - then you're the one extreme views IMO.

Some might say fundamentalist Catholicism is not exactly the best background to have when dealing with the issue of percieved Islamic fundamentalism ,or indeed any other kind of religious fundamentalisn/fanaticism.Sadly for Ruth she cant burn or torture them out of their beliefs any more,though the way things are going in Britain that`s not too far down the line.
You being a Mason for a while dosnt make you a Knight Templer,merely a lapsed Mason,plenty of lodges all over N.Z. if you found it that interesting,indeed far more "open" than here,you could easily be an active memeber,if you dont what`s your point?
Ruth Kelly an excellent politician? that`s your opinion and as valid as any other N.Z. residents opinion of British politics,here she`s more often a figure of ridicule and derision,probably unfairly but then you know the score here Biff.I still say having a fundamentalist overseeing other fundamentalists is "not wise" as they say in Scotland.
Da Vinci Code? Probably the worst book I`ve ever read and I certainly dont take it seriously,Opus Dei however give me the shits the same as any other bible-thumping bunch of reptiles with a superiority complex,not the fiction I find distasteful but the reality.
Arse biscuits? last time I was in N.Z Itried all kinds of local delicacies but dont remember those.

[Kickaha]

Arse biscuits? last time I was in N.Z Itried all kinds of local delicacies but dont remember those.

He imports them specially from Wales :bleh: